This Buzzfeed piece is getting a lot of attention today. Here’s an example:
As for articles mentioning the witnesses by name, Vindman and Yovanovitch have been targeted the most heavily. The second-most-shared story about Vindman was a Breitbart piece titled “Alexander Vindman Admits Making Up Parts Of Trump Call Summary” (97,300 engagements). The top story about Yovanovitch was by the New York Post, titled “Marie Yovanovitch Admits Obama Admin Prepped Her On Hunter Biden” (141,100 engagements), which was shared 15,000 times from the Texas for Donald Trump 2020 Facebook page and 10,000 times from the Silent Majority page.
The point of the piece is that in the Facebook/right-wing bubble, all the little bullshit droppings left by Nunes, Jordan, etc. are magnified into stories that are then shared by people who didn’t watch the hearings.
We all know that there’s a hard floor for Trump’s support in the upper-30s to low 40-s. My question after reading the story is whether the shares that are documented in the piece mainly have an audience of upper-30 percenters, or if they’re swaying the undecided or the uninformed. I’m thinking the former, not the latter.
Another way of saying this is that I’m perfectly willing to accept that the Republicans aren’t going to do shit about Trump in the House or the Senate, that Fox News viewership is up, that shit-sharing on Facebook is up, and that generally the core Republican base is going to shrug off impeachment. I’m not willing to say that those facts further damage our chances in the 2020 election, or that impeachment didn’t hurt Trump. I’ll wait to see some polls and fundraising numbers, because those matter a hell of a lot more than shares in the Facebook Republican bubble.
Baud
The various attacks on Hillary influenced the undecided and uninformed, but those attacks was much more validated by non-conservative voices.
Obama released his birth certificate because polling was showing that the conspiracy theories were gaining, but that never reached the level where rational people took it seriously.
schrodingers_cat
This is not new. My ex-friend who is a Yoga teacher went from a two time Obama voter to HRC skeptic Jill Stein voter to a T excuse maker. Her main source of news was FB. All her extended family is RWNJ by her own admission and she has not been my friend since February 2017.
MattF
There’s a ‘Facebook effect’ that makes ‘opinion entrepreneurs’ do very peculiar things. This NYT article lays out a specific case.
Matt McIrvin
Based on the 538 poll aggregates, I see support for impeachment very slowly dropping as the thing drags on, but support for Trump isn’t rising; it’s near the bottom of its (quite narrow) normal range. Nothing like the end of Nixon is happening, but on the other hand, I don’t see a big backlash against Democrats either–no one outside the bubble is calling it some massive overreach, though there’s some drama-critic carping about presentation. I think it’s mostly hardening existing positions. Could be good for us if it keeps a few moderates from thinking “maybe Trump isn’t so bad”.
Kay
I just think it’s time to admit it’s another GOP outlet. I don’t understand the dug-in insistence that it isn’t.
Just add it to Fox. It’s not that difficult. I mean, it makes perfect sense. They want the lack of regulation and massive tax cuts and Right wing news is profitable.
germy
“This was not an angel, this woman, okay?”
RobertB
I think the impeachment helps, even if removal doesn’t happen (Narrator: It won’t) . Hillary’s rep was trashed so hard by 2016 that people would hold their nose and vote for Trump. Between the hearings, Trump’s daily spew, and a candidate that hasn’t been badmouthed for 20 years, maybe a percent or so can be skimmed off the Republicans
ETA: The Facebook messages I get from the Trump supporters I know are nonsense, but I’ve heard three years+ of this shit by now. If someone hasn’t gone full Fox News by now, I don’t think they will after the hearings are kicked around by Facebook idiots.
Yarrow
Related:
Elizabelle
@Yarrow: Zuckerfuck.
Deplorable man. I wish people were throwing food at him in restaurants.
Tractarian
Why does everyone keep saying the polls aren’t moving?
The public hearings just ended yesterday. It will take time for news to filter through and polls to complete their fieldwork.
Let’s wait just a few days and let the pollsters gather more information before proclaiming that the hearings had no effect on public opinion.
MattF
@Yarrow: This video of Graham talking about Biden (back in 2016) shows where Republicans are coming from. Not a good place.
germy
Kay
@Yarrow:
I don’t even think Zuckerberg acts to portray it as anything other than a Right wing platform. He hired a celebrity Right wing cable host as head of the “news” division. I don’t know- he’s TELLING us what it is and for some reason there’s a lot of people who want to deny it for him.
Kay
@germy:
A lot of them seem awful but he’s almost uniquely terrible, as a person. Just the lying that company does should be a deal breaker. They lie constantly- they lie to advertisers, users, Congress. It’s an ethically bankrupt organization and that stems directly from leadership.
MattF
@Matt McIrvin: I suspect that the apparent constancy of Trump approval conceals turmoil under the curve.
Yarrow
@Kay: I’m not among those who deny it. It’s been obvious since the very beginning when Facebook was a “Hot or Not” site and stole student photos. It was obvious when they changed privacy rules without notice, making previous private information public and just shrugged when people protested. It was obvious when they conducted psychological experiments on users without their knowledge with the intent to manipulate their moods, potentially putting people’s lives in danger. It was obvious when they partnered with Cambridge Analytica, allowing their data to be used to manipulate the 2016 election.
There is nothing Facebook has done that should lead anyone to think they are a company with ethics and morals and have any intent to support the public good.
Kay
Facebook (and Google) target small business to buy advertising so I have spoken with their reps. It’s kind of amazing that they get away with citing stats on advertising that are impossible to verify outside their own collection and reporting of the stats. Facebook just invented theirs, it turns out.
This isn’t true if you advertise on radio or newspapers. If you know what questions to ask you get (mostly) reliable information. The whole thing feels scammy. Like they’re relying on small operators to be naive and gullible. It leaves a bad taste in your mouth, like you’re dealing with real operators who delight in tricking the rubes.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@germy:
It’s interesting that his judgment of her seems to hinge on things unrelated to whether she’s telling the truth, following procedure, doing her job, etc. Those outside standards don’t exist for him.
eric
@Dorothy A. Winsor: she is a woman. qed
Hoodie
@Matt McIrvin: Support for removal (I don’t even bother to discriminate between impeachment and removal any more) will likely never get above the low 50’s. The cult will only dig in further, and the mushy middle will go along with whatever gets normalized. That’s why you don’t want to delay. Go ahead with the articles and not be lured into trying to get more from Bolton, Pompeo, etc., because those assholes will either drag it out or lie and play games like Sondland tried to do (but they’ll likely be more clever than that moron). If the R’s want to call them as witnesses in the Senate, so be it (don’t hold your breath). The hearings these last two weeks are probably the most the Dems will be able to get and they should just keep things moving to force McConnell to do a sham acquittal. Then use it as a campaign theme. It’s regrettable that there appear to be no Republicans willing to break with the cult, but that’s the situation we face. If the public is too far gone to throw this asshole out of office, then we have bigger problems than Trump.
schrodingers_cat
Some good news from India. BJP’s long time electoral alliance partner ditched it after assembly (state leg) elections in Maharashtra because the power sharing talks broke down. And now Maharashtra will have a non-BJP government. Their alliance partner Shiv Sena are not angelic but IMHO they are better than the puritanical and fanatical BJP-Sangh.
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
Yep….nothing but human garbage is Zuckerberg. Period.
Mike in NC
Deleted my Facebook account several weeks ago and don’t miss the ‘updates’ from asshole wingnut neighbors one damn bit. Social media is a sewer no better than FOX News and Russia Today.
Richard Guhl
@Matt McIrvin: that 70% who say that Trump did something wrong in his dealings with the Ukraine are a support to Democrats no matter what the Senate does.
Independents may not like the impeachment process, but they aren’t going to suddenly like Trump.
Yarrow
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
@eric:
Yes, the fact that she’s a woman is part of the problem. The consistent issue with Trump is his narcissism. For him, you’re either For Trump or Against Trump. That’s it. That’s how a person is judged. She’s obviously Against Trump so she’s “bad.”
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Hoodie: We have bigger problems than Trump. But we can still win big in 2020. Our candidate won’t be covered with the slime of 25 years of slander and innuendo this time, and Trump’s going to be pretty slimy himself.
Mandalay
@Tractarian:
This. Analyzing daily changes in the polling numbers is meaningless. Even when Trump was threatening to shut down the government at the start of the year – which did eventually real harm to his numbers – the polls barely changed from one day to the next.
The real political value of what is going on right now is that ultimately Republican Senators will be required to support and defend Trump. Pious scolds like Rubio will be forced to publicly assert that Trump shouldn’t be impeached, and will ultimately have to face the voters for that position.
OGLiberal
I’m old (almost 50) but I’ve been working in digital for over 20-years. My job is digital. I was there when my very large company (Prudential Insurance-US) launched their web site. My current company has a Facebook page and we post stuff there. That said, Facebook is perhaps the worst thing that has happened in digital ever. It’s horrible – bragging about kids/grandkids, what you ate for dinner, what mood you’re in, crazy political conspiracies. It was made for kids but it’s now the land of old (and young!) Fox News viewers. Twitter can get nuts sometimes but I use it as a newsfeed – almost everybody I follow is not a friend – they are journalists, bloggers, and celeb type folks who have a political viewpoint. (I even follow Jim Hoft, so I can track the lunacy). Facebook is different – all the people I know who I didn’t know were crazy racists raise their freaks flags there, and in addition to the inane “here’s how great my kid is compared to yours” stuff, it’s just not a place I want to be.
I know in a previous post somebody mentioned that it’s invaluable for organizing. Can we find another option? I mean, even taking politics out of it, Facebook is horrible.
AJ
I think think the Virginia and Doug Jones wins, powered by WOC organizers, show that motivating our base works.
So I don’t really care if Trumpers get riled up, I think we can beat them if we have turnout.
AJ
Can we delete our own comments during the edit 5 min window? Can’t find a button for that on Chrome on android
Baud
@AJ: No.
AJ
@Baud: ty ?
Major Major Major Major
Facebook’s handling of content-sharing is not great, but I sympathize with the idea that people should be allowed to share content whether or not it shunts them into a conspiracy funnel. A better marketplace where competitors could actually exist would significantly lessen the negative effects of this. Broken record, I know.
Facebook’s audience skews way older. Twitter is for youngs and has similar conspiracy/extremism-boosting effects but it’s more spread out across the ideological spectrum. Reddit has the interesting distinction of letting different communities moderate themselves in different ways; I’m wondering now if that’s better or worse.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@AJ: <blockquote> I think we can beat them if we have turnout.</blockquote>
Yes, we can. That’s the lesson of our 2018 and 2019 victories.
J R in WV
@Yarrow:
If Corporations were really people, Facebook would be in jail for election fraud and manslaughter. In reality Zuckerberg SHOULD be in jail for election fraud at least. Then RICO should be exercised on his ass.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major:
Funny, because I was at a tech conference about a year or two after Twitter launched (also about a year or two after Facebook was opened to non-.edu users) and I very clearly remember the consensus being the opposite.
Now my daughter who was at an Ivy when FB was only open to Ivies hardly ever posts anything on FB.
Major Major Major Major
Did they? I thought CA misused their platform to mine data, and then used the data to target political content across a variety of platforms.
@Gin & Tonic: It’s a fast-changing industry!
AJ
I thought this was interesting
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/read-this-11
J R in WV
@AJ:
I just replace the comment with the word “Deleted”, which takes up more space in the database, which is unfortunate, but is probably easier to code for.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: The public story is different from the actual story. Facebook is not the innocent victim they portray themselves to be in this issue.
Major Major Major Major
@AJ: Yeah people keep forgetting that Roberts will preside over the trial.
@Yarrow: Could you provide a source for the assertion that Facebook partnered with Cambridge Analytica? I thought I followed this very closely; at least one of us is wrong.
VeniceRiley
I met the woman I will be spending the rest of my life with on FB.
I don’t see any of the RWNJ stuff from my family members in Utah and Ohio anymore. They either stopped sharing it or FB stopped showing it to me.
I don’t think they’re getting the share numbers they were getting during the Clinton Derangement Syndrome days.
Austin Bailey
I’m afraid that the Democratic faith that truth and reality will win the day is misguided. This post from No More Mister Nice Guy makes a compelling case that the Republican “strategy” of throwing shit against the wall will be more effective than the Democrat’s facts and evidence.
Baud
@Austin Bailey: Whatev.
Tenar Arha
@Dorothy A. Winsor: You know the worst part? That wasn’t even the Ambassador’s decision. There wasn’t an official photo available to hang until late October 2017…because the President is a vain man whose whole Administration is understaffed or with staff positions filled by non-professionals!
OGLiberal
@Gin & Tonic: That was a long time ago. Kids move, older folks don’t. My dad still has a freaking aol.com email account. The kids were all over MySpace, then they moved to Facebook, then Twitter, then Instagram, then WhatsApp…whatever. Facebook is the land of grandmas and grandpas (who were too tech challenged to embrace MySpace – big lost opportunity for MySpace there…and Murdoch bought them so it was ripe for the picking) and younger people who want to hear an echo chamber of wing nut view points. Most of social media is horrible but Facebook is the most horrible space. I mean, it’s just the most inane and insane social place outside of 4chan or where ever else it is the nuts like to post stuff.
Yarrow
@Yarrow: I will have to do some digging to find old notes. I am not sure I’m up for it today since I spent most of yesterday afternoon into the evening vomiting and am still sick today.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Tends to be worse. Remember fatpeoplehate? Or r/STC? Lots of toxic shit that festers until Reddit is basically forced to ban it all. I’ve noticed that Tumblr also tends to have conspiracy-boosting effects. I have no idea why right-wingers use it when it tends to have such a heavily left-leaning user base
Gin & Tonic
@OGLiberal:
I know. I was pointing it out for its humor value, not alleging that it’s still true 10-12 years on.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Austin Bailey:
Ok. So what’s your solution? Or are we doomed DOOMED DOOMED!?
Major Major Major Major
Private facebook groups are actually a great way to develop community. Another thing that could be replicated by an ethical competitor in a sensible marketplace. As it stands, FB’s social graph keeps would-be group creators locked in to their ecosystem; it’s too hard to get something started otherwise.
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Where did your emojis go??
Barbara
@Mandalay:
I think that it is especially meaningless to look at polls of so-called “independents,” because how one characterizes one’s self politically is just so fluid. I am responding to some Hill analysis of Wisconsin polls that focuses on changes in view of impeachment among independent voters. I don’t discount any poll, but these kinds of random polls that are dissociated from specific elections or voter actions seem particularly not worth spending a lot of time agonizing over.
Every time I go to Facebook, mostly to keep up with potential plans for someone’s funeral or wedding, I am struck by how shallow, boring and stupid most posts are . Not all — but it does seem increasingly to be the province of those who are retired or not working for whatever reason.
Kay
@J R in WV:
Well, they’re not people but they are a corporation and one of them more effective ways to reach them would be to portray them as far Right wingers. Which they don’t want. Because it’s bad for business. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars building their bullshit “brand” and if that brand becomes “far Right and aligned with racist conspiracy theorists” it’s worth less.
Smarter and better run corporations don’t piss off a huge segment of the public. It’s just dumb. You don’t see Coca Cola endorsing Proud Boys events, nor will you ever.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Decided to get rid of them. I found on desktop the American flag wasn’t showing up. I could bring some of them back. They made it easy when scrolling through a thread to find my comments and replies to them
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): classic baka move
zhena gogolia
@Yarrow:
Oh, come on, Gym Jordan isn’t that bad!
Just Chuck
100% of the sample population in polls consists of people who bother to respond to polls.
Kent
Weird thing about Facebook is that everyone’s feed is different. It’s not like Drudge or Fox News or any other web site were one can look at it and see what the rubes are seeing.
Myself, for example. I have maybe 200 FB friends who are mostly family and old friends and colleagues. I get pretty much zero national news of any kind in my FB feed. What little pops up is usually news about Chile or Guatemala as I have lots of family in Chile and I was in the Peace Corps in Guatemala years ago. I do have a handful of RWNJ relatives who I suspect post MAGA bullshit on a daily basis but I stopped following their feeds long ago. Didn’t unfriend them, just stopped following. Not because of the MAGA stuff but before that so I could stop getting the endless daily bible verses and recipes and cat videos and other pablum.
So this whole thing about FB distorting minds….I never get to see that. Would actually be interesting to see the actual FB feeds of some of my crazy old MAGA relatives. But no way to actually do that without hacking into their accounts.
PPCLI
@Tenar Arha: Presumably the President believes she could have gone to a Kyiv
KinkosКінкос, give them a photo of Trump with Don King printed from the internet, have them make up a fake Time magazine “President of the Century” cover with it, and hang that.BroD
Maybe I’m just old and paranoid but I invest no credence in stats from internet platforms.
Kent
This is the conundrum. I’m on a handful of private FB groups. One family, a couple of sailing groups, and some Guatemala Peace Corps alumni groups. I don’t know of any easy alternative way to create the same thing outside FB. Sure, you can create an old-school email list using listserv. But that’s clunky and dated. I don’t know of any web sites that let you easily create a group chat easily. Anyone have any alternatives?
everyday man
Please one of the front pagers. Please start a story about how Trump grabbed Apple’s CEO Tim Cook by the pussy. Yesterday Trump visited a apple factory in Texas and Trump on national TV boasted that he (Trump) brought the Apple factory back to the U.S. In fact the factory was there since 2013 (even before Obama). Billionaire Tim Cook and the other wealthy executes of Apple did not correct Trump or immediately announce to the TVs and public that Trump was lying. Billionaire Cook and the rest dishonored the hard working people at Apple who actually did the work and help with Trump’s con on the public. As Trump said when you are rich and in a position of power, when you are rich, you can grab them by the pussy and they will let you.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/11/21/20975979/donald-trump-apple-plant-austin-texas-tim-cook
PPCLI
@PPCLI: After all, that’s what Stephanie Grisham would have done.
Kelly
Personal finance tip: Be sure to bring up politics at Thanksgiving this year. You’ll save money on Christmas gifts.
zhena gogolia
Good speech by Sacha Baron Cohen, which resonates with Hill’s testimony yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymaWq5yZIYM&feature=share
Major Major Major Major
They are mostly owned by Facebook or the PRC. Reddit also has one. Discord is a very popular option as well, and then there’s Slack. But you can’t do any of those with a FB account, and that’s a real hurdle to widespread adoption; people hate making new accounts.
Chyron HR
@Austin Bailey:
At least try to be convincing.
lgerard
Give yourself a medal!
NotoriousJRT
@Kay: I think this nails it.
Kent
A random thought I had this morning. Now that Israel is known to be a corrupt country at the very highest levels, are we going to cut off military aid to Israel?
Kay
@Major Major Major Major:
The kids here like Discord. They told me it used to be for gamers but they all use it now. I commented on the name “the name of the thing you-all use to communicate is ‘discord’?” I have a lot of Joe Biden-ish conversations like this :)
Mandalay
@Austin Bailey:
Not for me he didn’t. Not remotely. It’s just one guy’s opinion, and he didn’t make a compelling case at all. Just another doom-monger, after the Democrats kicked ass in the 2018 elections and over half the country has disapproved of Trump’s presidency for more than two and a half years.
And his problem is that the Democrats “dully” built the case for Trump’s guilt? Please.
Jeffro
@Yarrow: I shudder to think of the things that the Mango Menace was whispering in gullible Zuck’s ears at that dinner, but I can guess…some variation of “you’re going to lose it all if the Dems win, Mark”.
everyday man
Billionaire Tim Cook added to the Trump lied to the workers by claiming they (the plant) would not have gotten this far except with Trumps help!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRYs4t6rSIk
Trump grabbed Apple’s CEO Tim Cook and other Apple execs by the pussy.
Tim Cook and other execs needed to correct Trump immediately while on the record. Even if Cook told the public the truth later is too late. Relatively, nobody will read or hear about a later correction.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Tumblr also has group chats now. The notification system for them sucks. It doesn’t alert you to specific new messages and messages in the group chats themselves expire after 24 hrs.
PPCLI
@AJ: That’s very interesting. It would be useful to get feedback from any experts about how plausible it is. For example, couldn’t McConnell just change the rules for the trial procedure? Would that require 60 votes or just a majority?
If McConnell can do that and he wants to do that he will do that. Especially because the Trump party can send out the usual usual squid-ink about “Schifty Schiff changed the rules blah blah, this is just for fairness blah blah blah.”
Jeffro
read “Mindf*ck: Cambridge Analytica and the Plot to break America” by Christopher Wylie. It’s absolutely terrifying. I finally finished it last night and I’m writing a review later today.
The things they are able to do to latch onto the slightly-aggrieved, and turn them into the very-aggrieved, and then to get them believing just about anything, will blow your mind.
VeniceRiley
The thing to do when staying on facebook is to never click on an ad. If I see something I think I’d like when browsing FB or Instagram, I type the URL into my PC by hand.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
Plates, knives and forks. He doesn’t deserve to be force fed.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Major Major Major Major:
Guilty as charged, I guess? You do know what “baka” means, right?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Kay:
Hell, people use them for group roleplaying too
terry chay
The impeachment is helping, if not as much as it should given the evidence. Every nationalized off year election has shown that Trumps numbers are not only in the gutter, but he drags down Republican support in the only thing that matters to them: the vote.
The problem is that he HAS politically activated soft Republican participation since his election (his numbers in 2016 were dismal. In most areas he did worse than Romney in participation).
The countervailing thing is he seems to have activated Democratic participation in at least a 2 for 1 manner in response.
When you consider the economy has been unusually strong, the undeniable conclusion is that the only thing that will change this is an economic crash (a la 2008). But history suggests that would completely collapse his support and turn the blue ? into a tsunami.
Major Major Major Major
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): that sounds pretty crappy yeah
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): yes I’m a total weeb
Tenar Arha
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
@Major Major Major Major:
If you do decide to bring them back even with the display issues, accessibility-wise, please remember more than a couple emojis are like nails on a blackboard when using screen readers. On Twitter, if I use one at all in my nym, I usually use only one, & I place it after my nym so the screen reader picks up my nym first, but only has the added Thanksgiving ? at the end ?
Baud
Y’all blaming Facebook for your white friends and family.
BC in Illinois
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1197900384788000768
trollhattan
@Kay:
Dischord? E-sharp minor.
Baud
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
???
H.E.Wolf
[raises hand, a la Hermione Granger]
I do!
And I don’t think of you as baka, Goku-san. :)
Baud
@BC in Illinois:
Awesome.
Kent
Excellent point. They were all racist as fuck before FB. It just give them the platform to let it fly and, more importantly, get social approval in the form of likes for their racist tripe.
everyday man
Yesterday, Trump grabbed Apple’s CEO Billioniare Tim Cook and other Apple Millioniare executives by the pussy and they let him. Billioniare Tim Cook and the other millioniares supported Trump’s con. Millions of U.S. citizens think Trump brought a Apple factory back to the U.S. Billioniare Tim Cook even supported Trump by thanking Trump by saying the factory would not be where it is today without Trump’s help. Cook even said Ivanka helped too!
These types of little stones (lies) are added everyday to make Trump’s bullshit mountain. Millions of U.S. voters believe factually incorrect things because of stuff like this. Billionaire Tim Ckok and the billionaire/millionaire executives knew the truth and instead dishonored the hard work of there own works and help mis-inform millions of voters. Correcting the record later does not undue the damage. Trump grabbed Apple’s CEO Billioniare Tim Cook and other Apple Millioniare executives by the pussy and they let him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRYs4t6rSIk
trollhattan
@Baud:
I know what it meant among my Japanese friends at school.
Bobby Thomson
That’s optimistic. Mombook absolutely devastated Clinton’s numbers in 2016. Them openly consorting with the hard right is a big problem.
Kay
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
I have no idea what “group roleplaying” is, Goku :)
It’s fine! I don’t have to know everything. I sort of disagree with the people who say younger people don’t communicate as much. They’re so close to one another it makes me claustrophobic. My youngest is basically in constant contact with his gf. I would find that exhausting. Just one looooong dialogue.
Bobby Thomson
@Baud: That’s where Ebola originally broke out, BTW.
Kamala.Harris.2020
Facebook is the internet equivalent of Walmart. “It’s just so easy and convenient.”
anyone who uses Facebook and extends its reach and ubiquity does more damage to this country than posting hair-splitting purity posts on Balloon Juice will ever redeem
Gin & Tonic
@VeniceRiley: Doesn’t matter. Site you type in the URL of sets a cookie, FB reads your cookies, it’s as if you’d clicked over from FB.
Barbara
@Baud: Seriously. I have two first cousins who appear to have a lot of time to post on FB, one of whom is basically copacetic with me, and the other who is the polar opposite, RWNJ. A guy I grew up with but suppose has drifted ever rightward living where he does. He is way more conservative than his father (my uncle) ever was. At any rate, I get to see the basically mindless opposition that seizes on the slightest pretext for excusing Trump’s reprehensible conduct. But then I am reminded of watching the original Watergate hearings, and remembering some representative throwing up his hands in exasperation and saying, “if an elephant walked into this room and everyone said, ‘there goes an elephant,’ some members of this chamber would say, ‘well, don’t rush to judgment. It could be a mouse with a glandular condition.'”
glory b
@RobertB:
An advantage to being African American, white people you know will not share their Trump stuff with you.
trollhattan
@Kamala.Harris.2020:
My spouse uses it for her business, my kid wants nothing to do with it and I’ve never seen the point. I don’t foresee any of that changing.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud:
rikyrah
@Yarrow:
You tell the truth. Remember, all the changes in the stories with regards to 2016. How, it didn’t really happen at first. Then, it was only a handful of people who got contacted by the Russian stuff. Then, it was a few thousand. Then, it was a few hundred thousand. Finally wound up MILLIONS being touched by the Russian campaign.
Quaker in a Basement
Wait. Breitbart is scandalized because Vindman kept “rooting out corruption” in the call summary? That’s Trump’s whole defense!
Ruckus
@Tractarian:
Don’t you understand, the world is moving at such a pace that everything is decided in a second, and every second that nothing is happening is a disaster! Someone said something on Twitter!
More rational…..
There is so much information and so much misinformation out there that people really don’t know. That’s the power of faux news, the well dressed dummies spouting bullshit along side the car crashes makes the world sounds absolutely horrible, and then there is the story about the president – never presented in a realistic way because they know who he is and how great he is – presented in a style that if you don’t listen and don’t know or want to know what’s what, gives you the totally opposite message to what is going on. It’s a misinformation campaign. Designed to make money and hold power for a very small and self selected group. And every other news show/fauxbook is the same way just not quite as on message. The conservative politicians are deluded to a degree that they are willing to lie and believe the lies, to pontificate rather than ask any questions, because they don’t like the truthful answers. The status quo is not good for the vast majority of people, even the supporters of conservatives, it’s only good for the money grubbers and even then it’s not all that good. Every country in history who went too far down the rabbit hole of excess for the few and shit for everyone else eventually went down and down hard. It’s a lesson that has to be learned over and over and probably never will be actually learned. In this current mess it’s catapulted a fucking lying moron into power that he should never be within a million miles of but it serves the purpose of tearing down anything that doesn’t support the grubbing of money.
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: it’s japanese for, loosely, ‘idiot’
Matt McIrvin
@Major Major Major Major: I don’t think Twitter is for youngs either. The kids are on Discord, Instagram and YouTube. Used to be Tumblr but that’s old news.
Major Major Major Major
@Gin & Tonic: everybody ?? turn off third-party cookies
Other privacy tips https://balloon-juice.com/2019/05/14/online-privacy-and-you/
Leto
@Kay: I have friends that use Discord for D&D campaigns. I’ll venture that’s what Goku was referencing.
The evolution from TeamSpeak to Discord has been a blessing for gamers.
Aleta
@germy: Since an “Angel” to him means a person he can use to attack immigrants, etc. with lies (i.e. “angel families,” “angel mom” ) … no, she surely was never going to be his angel.
Cacti
The GOP is officially a post-fact, post-truth party. Like any successful cult organization, they pretty much just make it up as they go along, and whatever dear leader says is right.
And the sad truth is, Trump will get no less than 45% of the vote nationally. The good news is, he probably won’t get a lot more than that either. It’s up to the Dems to make sure it’s not close enough to steal this time around.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
You are all making the mistake of projecting your own thinking on to conservatives. You all want evidence reach a conclusion from. A Conservative has his conclusion, he looks for evidence to support it and for arguments to ignore evidence that doesn’t support his conclusion. That’s what these social media companies are doing.
Just go listen to the nonsense the House Republicans spewing, none of it is some argument why Trump isn’t guilty of a crime, it’s all excuses why the evidence can be ignored.
Major Major Major Major
@Matt McIrvin: Facebook users older than twitter users older than Instagram users (the latter of course also being Facebook). Since it’s just a chat client, Discord isn’t super relevant to the discussion, neither is Snapchat. https://www.google.com/amp/s/sproutsocial.com/insights/new-social-media-demographics/%3famp
Barbara
@Enhanced Voting Techniques: It’s no accident that conservatives are increasingly comprised of Evangelical and other conservative Christians, who are quite used to accepting astonishing factual claims based on faith without the benefit of evidence. Start with the conclusion and bend yourself into a pretzel to find the facts that fit? No problem, it’s the cornerstone of their existence.
JaySinWA
@VeniceRiley:
@Kent:
What Kent said, I have a fairly clean feed, I presume because I stopped interacting with and occasionally unfollowed (not unfriended) RWNJ’s and incessant God Botherers. They had a provision to stop seeing certain ads or “news” items for a while (it may still be there) as does Twitter.
FB is actively siloing people by the way they interact.
JaySinWA
@Kent:
I can see what they react to by searching their FB id, stuff that isn’t actively shown on my feed, presumably because I don’t engage with them.
Yes it would be interesting to see what they see. Honey trap accounts might be an interesting project.
Downpuppy
Zuckerberg testifed to Congress recently. He said a lot of things that aren’t really true, about basic stuff. Claimed to talk to a wide spectrum of people, but turns out only right wing nutters. Claimed to have neutral rules about fake accounts, but lets wingnuts break them all the time. Claimed neutral factchecking, but hah.
Point is, Congress can squeeze him if they want to.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major:
I don’t have access to some of my saved files at the moment and I’m not feeling well so don’t have a lot of energy to search for things. Here’s one example:
Link.
The SEC case is happening at the moment. From the filing:
It’s stalled at the moment as Facebook fights tooth and nail to keep emails from being released. If the emails are exculpatory, why are they fighting their release so hard? And note the dates–they were fine working alongside CA on the Trump campaign even though they had already “become aware” of what CA had done.
There are more issues relating to Facebook’s funding (Russian) and that relationship with CA but I do not have the energy to find that info to link here.
Jay
@Baud:
the Book of Faces, ( and You Tube) deliberately crafted their algorithms to “push” extremism.
once upon a time looking up Juan Cole’s “Mohammed”, in less than 14 stages of Kevin Bacon, lead people who clicked on “suggested sites” to ISIL execution and recruitment sites.
Western Governments decided that this was “material support for terrorism” and forced the Social Media Companies to break “those” links, but only “those” links.
As a result, in often less than 14 clicks, a kid can go from a google search on “how to keep your room clean”, to Stephan Molneaux’s Lobster Theories, to Atomwaffen instructions on how to execute a mass shooting/bombing.
Facebook has broken a lot of people.
James E Powell
I’m thinking it is a small portion of the latter, small but maybe significant. If 2016 can serve as a guide, many people who I know not to be right-wingers repeated many of the groundless Clinton scandal claims as if they were uncontested facts. People who did not watch any of the hearings were certain that HRC “should have pulled our people out of Benghazi” – even the CIA operatives over whom she had no authority. They knew that HRC issued a “stand down” order. They knew that large donations to the Clinton Foundation were required before anyone could get any time with Sec’y of State Clinton. They knew that the Clintons used the foundation as their private slush fund – that term was used every time – and that both of them were certain to be indicted any day. I could go on, but you get the point.
I remember from my college mass media class that some famous person said we watch TV but we live with radio. That was then. Now, people live with social media and adults live with and in facebook. If things are posted on their often enough, they become part of the background, they become accepted as fact.
Leto
@Major Major Major Major: Wait,
you think Discord is just a chat client? Do you use Discord?
Major Major Major Major
They offered the same to the Clinton campaign, which turned them down.
There were many applications that did the same things CA did. Facebook lying about when they knew that CA (as well as Tinder and many others) was abusing their system, is not the same thing as Facebook partnering with CA.
If you replace “Cambridge Analytica” with “Tinder,” which did the same fucking thing and which Facebook made the same lies about, the claim doesn’t make too much sense. CA’s use of the information for psyops does not change what I understand to be the basic facts:
Major Major Major Major
Yes, and I think the very tippy-top of discordapp-dot-com has an accurate description:
John S.
@Leto: Well technically Discord is a chat client — it just happens to be used pretty exclusively for gaming.
Bill K
@Tractarian: It’s a common ailment among the press. They seem to think the world moves at the same speed as news, so they are bewildered when cause and effect sometimes moves slower. I still remember when there was a big spike in the price of gasoline and the next day I saw an article wondering why econo car sales haven’t risen.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major:
From the SEC case:
They knew this could be an issue in 2012. Their platform is free, which means the user data is what is valuable. It’s not believable that they knew this was an issue yet allowed companies to just take their most valuable resource for free.
Major Major Major Major
Sure it is. They made a shitload of money and have suffered no repercussions. It was the plan. That’s different from partnering with Cambridge Analytica to run a Russian influence op.
Jeffro
@Major Major Major Major: but that’s exactly what they did. Read the “Mindf*ck” book I referenced above.
Yarrow
@Major Major Major Major: They willingly worked with CA and allowed data to be taken. Fine with them. They also happily took money for microtargeted ads for those same users. They knew what they were doing on both ends of it.
artem1s
Another advantage in having Roberts decide this during the impeachment process is that he gets to demonstrate that he is in charge – The Deciderer, if you will. He is vain enough to want to be at the center of any historical decision in this shit show. And he’s likely to take great offense to anyone who tries to duck out on a subpoena to HIS circus. He’s just enough of a dick to make a show of rubbing his power in the faces of those he considers to be inferior or beneath him. This administration’s disregard for the Old Guard rule of law must really be annoying to him anyway. If there are any “reasonable” conservatives left in DC, Roberts certainly wants to be seen as part of that crowd. In other words, he’s still amenable to working across the aisle as long as his image is advanced and there isn’t any obvious downside for him. And he gets to be the center of attention in a way that he is complete control of.
Pelosi has his number
OGLiberal
@Gin & Tonic: Oh, I got that. Just pointing out, like you were, how much things have changed in not that long of a period of time. The youngs convinced their parents and grandparents to get on Facebook and now probably wish they never did that.