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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Hill And Holmes Testimony After The Break

Hill And Holmes Testimony After The Break

by Cheryl Rofer|  November 21, 201911:32 am| 83 Comments

This post is in: Impeachment Hearings, Impeachment Inquiry, Live Blogging, Open Threads

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Update: Looks like this might be a longish recess – for six House votes – so OPEN THREAD

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Previous Post: « Thursday Impeachment Hearings – Fiona Hill and David Holmes
Next Post: Biden’s Stutter »

Reader Interactions

83Comments

  1. 1.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2019 at 11:38 am

    #Breaking: Netanyahu to be indicted on all charges: bribery, fraud, breach of trust. pic.twitter.com/iIecyFEoTq— Noga Tarnopolsky (@NTarnopolsky) November 21, 2019

  2. 2.

    TaMara (HFG)

    November 21, 2019 at 11:42 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Wow

  3. 3.

    guachi

    November 21, 2019 at 11:42 am

    I’m not getting any work done because I’m following the hearings. I suspect I’m not alone.

  4. 4.

    TaMara (HFG)

    November 21, 2019 at 11:43 am

    This needs to play on a loop:

     

    Hill: “In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance the Russian interests…These fictions are harmful even if they’re deployed for purely domestic political purposes.” pic.twitter.com/09nEoi4rUM

    — Amee Vanderpool (@girlsreallyrule) November 21, 2019

  5. 5.

    Leto

    November 21, 2019 at 11:43 am

    @Patricia Kayden: All that Trumpov touches… wonder what will happen to the Trumpov settlements. Will they be known as the Israeli Hoovervilles?

  6. 6.

    MisterForkbeard

    November 21, 2019 at 11:47 am

    @Patricia Kayden: If only we could do that to Trump here, since he’s… done all of those things :)

  7. 7.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2019 at 11:49 am

    On Thursday, @SpeakerPelosi rejected the notion that the impeachment process is partisan, saying, "if the Republicans are in the denial about the facts, they do not want to honor their oath of office" the the media should not label the process 'partisan.' pic.twitter.com/FQkkY5Zxey— Dan Desai Martin (@DanMartinTalks) November 21, 2019

  8. 8.

    lollipopguild

    November 21, 2019 at 11:50 am

    Chickens are finally coming home to roost!  “Gentlemen, we must do something to save our phoney-baloney jobs!”

  9. 9.

    hells littlest angel

    November 21, 2019 at 11:52 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Another life and career down in flames after the shit-Midas touch of Trump.

  10. 10.

    MisterForkbeard

    November 21, 2019 at 11:53 am

    @Patricia Kayden: Pelosi’s words to the media’s heart, hopefully.

    Instead, I imagine they’re going to use the “Republicans all say this is awful so therefore it’s a both sides issue and who can say if Trump actually did these things we have multiple witnesses and documentation for?”

  11. 11.

    PST

    November 21, 2019 at 11:54 am

    Just to get back to casting the movie, has anyone suggested yet that Bob Balaban would make a fine Gordon Sonderland? Among other things, he too has a fine resting smile face.

  12. 12.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2019 at 11:58 am

    Looks like it might be a longish recess. It’s for six House votes. The C Span person just said it could be another hour or more.

  13. 13.

    p.a.

    November 21, 2019 at 12:00 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Media: no… no.  Stenography is our only duty.  (Apology to stenographers for equating them to national media.)

     

    The question has always been framed: when does the national Rethug party turn on drumpf?  Maybe more pertinent question: when does Rupert Murdoch turn on drumpf?  (Of course, WILL THEY EVER is also a legit question.)

  14. 14.

    guachi

    November 21, 2019 at 12:00 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer:  But…but… Trump keeps telling me the Democrats aren’t doing anything but impeachment!

  15. 15.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:00 pm

    @PST

    Thought he looked like the late Dick Van Patten.

    While on the subject, who in anything close to his position proudly repeats over and over “I don’t take notes!”

  16. 16.

    p.a.

    November 21, 2019 at 12:02 pm

    @PST: Or the guy who played the holographic doctor in StarTrek Voyager.  May be too old currently.

  17. 17.

    trollhattan

    November 21, 2019 at 12:03 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Ooh, have we been good enough to earn a two-fer–Donny and Bibi both headed to prison?

     

    Then Bibi can be sent to the Hague for a war crimes tribunal.

     

    Are others having their nyms disappear overnight?

  18. 18.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2019 at 12:04 pm

    So let’s make it an open thread.

  19. 19.

    narya

    November 21, 2019 at 12:06 pm

    @guachi: **raises hand** And I have SO MUCH to do . . .

  20. 20.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:08 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer

    “Festival! Festival!”

    Okay, maybe not that open.

    ;)

  21. 21.

    UncleEbeneezer

    November 21, 2019 at 12:09 pm

    @PST: For Counsel Goldman, I see Aaron Staton, who played Ken Cosgrove on Mad Men and currently has a role on Castle Rock.

  22. 22.

    Leto

    November 21, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    @p.a.:  Robert Picardo. Local celebrity here.

  23. 23.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    Meanwhile in the Senate:

    Wow. As Judiciary Committee was voting on some troubling nominees, @senatemajldr just moved forward on EIGHT more Trump judicial picks.Two refused to say #BrownvBoard was correctly decided. And then there's Sarah Pitlyk, whose record is disturbing in so many ways.Be outraged. pic.twitter.com/Qx7eFOiRzw— Vanita Gupta (@vanitaguptaCR) November 21, 2019

  24. 24.

    Adam L Silverman

    November 21, 2019 at 12:11 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Are others having their nyms disappear overnight? 

    Welcome to the new Balloon Juice extraordinary rendition program. We have prepared a VIP accommodation for you. Your personalized enhanced interrogation program begins promptly at 8 AM every day. Trust us, you don’t want to be late for any session!//

  25. 25.

    JPL

    November 21, 2019 at 12:13 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer:  David Holmes needs someone talented also.   The role isn’t as big but still important.

  26. 26.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:14 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer

    Jeff Goldblum. With soft focus and a lot of pancake.

    ;)

  27. 27.

    Betty Cracker

    November 21, 2019 at 12:14 pm

    Did anyone catch Holmes’ subtle shade at Trump when he was described the Sondland call? He said Sondland said he was calling from Kyiv, and Trump asked if he was in Ukraine. LOL!

  28. 28.

    dexwood

    November 21, 2019 at 12:15 pm

    @trollhattan: Yes, on my desktop, my nym and email are missing every morning. Windows 7 Pro, Firefox. On my android phone, my nym sticks, but my email must be added daily.

  29. 29.

    Leto

    November 21, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Oh yeah, caught that. The slow blade penetrates the shield…

  30. 30.

    JPL

    November 21, 2019 at 12:16 pm

    Have we all decided that Jon Hamm will play Adam Schiff?

  31. 31.

    JPL

    November 21, 2019 at 12:17 pm

    @Betty Cracker: MSM won’t cover that because they already understand that trump is map challenged.

  32. 32.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    @Leto: Wow, Dune nerd talk so early in the morning.

  33. 33.

    JAFD

    November 21, 2019 at 12:21 pm

    Good afternoon, gentlefolk and Jackals !

     

    It’s a beautiful November day here in New Jersey, sunshine and 52F.  I’m going to head outside, walk a mile, get some groceries.  Trust youse will keep me posted if anything relevant happens in DC or Kyiv or anywhere in between.

    And in case I don’t write what you read in this next week, wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving !  Hoping you have things to be grateful for, this year – even if not as much as I have ;-)

    Be well, and take care of yourselves.

  34. 34.

    laura

    November 21, 2019 at 12:22 pm

    @PST: Jeff Ross – see last night’s Jimmy Kimmel. Ross nails it.

  35. 35.

    japa21

    November 21, 2019 at 12:24 pm

    So apparently Trump is going to stop the Navy from removing the Navy Seal he restored rank to last week.  He tweeted

    More
    The Navy will NOT be taking away Warfighter and Navy Seal Eddie Gallagher’s Trident Pin. This case was handled very badly from the beginning. Get back to business!

    5:30 AM – 21 Nov 2019

  36. 36.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:24 pm

    @JPL

    Stephen DeRosa? (Before anyone goes “Who?”)

  37. 37.

    Gin & Tonic

    November 21, 2019 at 12:26 pm

    @japa21: I’m thinking that however long Eddie Gallagher’s remaining time in the Navy is, it will not be fun for him.

  38. 38.

    Kelly

    November 21, 2019 at 12:27 pm

    Bringing this up from below

    They know they are lying. We know that they know they are lying. They know that we know that they know they are lying. We know they they know that we know that they know they are lying…

    twitter.com/gdanmitchell/status/1197555893337915392

  39. 39.

    Kent

    November 21, 2019 at 12:27 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: Any Dem-leaning federal judge who retires between now and 2020 needs to be shunned from polite society for fucking life.  Suck it up and put that damn retirement off for one more year for the sake of the future of the country.

  40. 40.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2019 at 12:28 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    His nym is Leto. It was only to be expected.

  41. 41.

    guachi

    November 21, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    @japa21: Gallagher will  be given shit assignments until he retires.

  42. 42.

    japa21

    November 21, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Specially since he has not been very nice to his fellow SEALS.

  43. 43.

    PPCLI

    November 21, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

     

    Netanyahu to be indicted on all charges: bribery,…

     

    Is he indicted for bribery, or bribery?

  44. 44.

    Joey Maloney

    November 21, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    I am very very eager to watch Nunes stumblefuck into the buzzsaw that Fiona Hill will be if he tries any of his bullshit on her.

  45. 45.

    Jeffro

    November 21, 2019 at 12:29 pm

    I sure hope the Dems are planning on running ads this coming year about all the bills they’ve passed in the House that are stalled out due to The Turtle’s inaction.  It makes me furious that he does nothing but confirm unfit judges and I think a massive majority of Americans will feel that way too – IF the Dems constantly remind them of that.

     

    On second thought, I don’t want GOP voters reminded that the trumpov-Turtle Axis of Evil is confirming RWNJ judges right and left.  Leave that part out, Dems!  Just show the massive snowdrift of bills piling up at his door.

  46. 46.

    Sloane Ranger

    November 21, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: I can’t help wondering how Trump will react. What is happening to Bibi is very similar to what is happening to Trump as are the charges.

     

    I would think Trump will currently be feeling bowels opening fear and will shortly be charging through the Twitter China shop like a bull on steroids.

  47. 47.

    Yarrow

    November 21, 2019 at 12:30 pm

    @JPL:

    David Holmes needs someone talented also.   The role isn’t as big but still important.

    I keep thinking of Kevin M. Cozner (no, not Costner). He plays Captain Holt’s husband on Brooklyn Nine-Nine and he’s been in a bunch of other stuff too.

  48. 48.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2019 at 12:31 pm

    @japa21: They’ll also never give him an another assignment where that trident matters.  The NCOIC of a laundromat at a navy fuel depot in the Aleutians with a Budweiser badge?  Obviously a major fuck-up of some kind.  Then his new colleagues will hit google if they don’t already know.

     

    TL,DR:  He is a pariah, badge or no badge.

  49. 49.

    trollhattan

    November 21, 2019 at 12:32 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Will there be coffee? Covfefe? I’m a notorious not-a-morning person.

  50. 50.

    Kelly

    November 21, 2019 at 12:32 pm

    @trollhattan: Almost everything works on my Chromebook. The only glitch is the back button is kinda random when chasing around a comment thread

  51. 51.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2019 at 12:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Duh. (on my part, that is)

  52. 52.

    trollhattan

    November 21, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    @japa21:

    They must LOVE being both countermanded and micro-managed. Just watch, we’re gonna get those steam catapults yet.

  53. 53.

    Ella in New Mexico

    November 21, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    I’ve been switching back and forth between FOX news and the other news outlets during these hearings because I really want to know what the Hell the MAGA brigade hears from it’s Pravda that is so able to keep them from disbelieving their own eyes and ears.

     

    Bill Hemmer repeating exact same fricking “In 2016 Ukraine Worked with Democrats v Trump Oh And Burisma/Hunter Biden Too” conspiracy theory Hill just said was a Russian lie as if it’s a known, legitimate rationale for Trump bribing Ukraine is helping me understand why they’re the most uninformed people in America.

  54. 54.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2019 at 12:35 pm

    Hse added a vote in the series on the floor. Expect impeachment hearing to be delayed further. Maybe resuming slightly after 1 pm et

    — Chad Pergram (@ChadPergram) November 21, 2019

  55. 55.

    Kent

    November 21, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    @Jeffro: I’m not any kind of political consultant, but the 2020 ads I would run would be some sort of split screen compare and contrast ad with a Trump cabinet official on one side showing what they got from Trump compared to an ordinary person.

     

    So, Sec. of Educaton DeVos got a $25 million tax break from Trump and pays no taxes on her 8 yachts (or whatever) compared a working single mom with two jobs who has seen her health insurance premiums double under Trump due to his endless efforts to undermine the Affordable Care Act and who has seen her salary stall because of his lack of support for living wages.

     

    That sort of thing.  The uber-rich make out like bandits under Trump while the working folk suffer.  Repeat again and again and again with a different Trump lackey each time.

  56. 56.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    @japa21:

    I have no doubt that Trump is Commander in Chief and gets to do such things. But he has been flouting the rules* about exerting undue command influence with a vengeance. I have to wonder about what that does to the relationship between the US military and the civilian leadership it reports to. (Not that I’m expecting mutiny or a coup, far from it; but this has to be causing some damage.)

     

    *Or is it more appropriate to say breaking the law?

  57. 57.

    zhena gogolia

    November 21, 2019 at 12:36 pm

    Nude photos of Trump! Drink!

  58. 58.

    Martin

    November 21, 2019 at 12:38 pm

    I  think a lot of people continue to underestimate how career professionals work. I’ll hope that Adam backs me up here.

     

    When you work in a two-class system like government where you have the political class and the career class, it’s almost always the case that the political class thinks they can get what they want by blustering, while the career class are the ones that learn how to bend with the wind. You learn how to get the infrastructure job of governing, the paper moving, the dollar moving, by figuring out what the motives of the political players are, and then adapting your approach to thread the needle around the political actors that stand in your way. In order to be a career professional at this level and not blow yourself up, you need to be way better at practical bureaucratic politics than the political guys.

     

    So if I’m Fiona Hill, I have a story I want people to internalize. It’s the true story of whats happening in government. But people have internalized some parts of that story, and not others. The political actors (Nunes, etc) are trying to knock certain parts of that story down so that the public doesn’t internalize it. Hill would be watching these hearings, figuring out what parts of the story don’t need to be told because they are accepted, and how the political actors are attacking the story she wants to tell.

     

    Schiff doesn’t need to steer the witnesses in any particular way, the pros already know how to do that because they want this story to come out and with each passing day, they know a bit better how to shape their testimony. The way this government is being run makes them sick.  It makes them question their careers. More than anything they want this fixed. In most of these cases they want that more than they want to keep their job. So long as Schiff keeps giving them airtime, and keeps finding people like Vindman and Yovanovitch in government, the witnesses will do a lot of the heavy lifting.

  59. 59.

    schrodingers_cat

    November 21, 2019 at 12:40 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Wait whut?

  60. 60.

    patroclus

    November 21, 2019 at 12:41 pm

    Fiona Hill strikes me as a Hunter-Seeker.  Giuliani is Baron Harkonnen.  Dan Goldman knows the ways of cross-examination as if he was born to it.  Sadly, Joe Biden seems to be a Leto Atreides.  Trump is the Emperor.   Is this Dune day in the Impeachment hearings?

  61. 61.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2019 at 12:42 pm

    @zhena gogolia:

    Nude photos of Trump!

    Gawd, NOOOOOOO!!

  62. 62.

    vhh

    November 21, 2019 at 12:42 pm

    @japa21: not sure he csn do that. He can get the,admirsl retirrd, maybe.

  63. 63.

    trollhattan

    November 21, 2019 at 12:45 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    Super-wide angle lenses are the technology that make this possible. Not a fan!

  64. 64.

    scav

    November 21, 2019 at 12:46 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I think that’s what the “Drink!” was about.  Meaning “Chug the hemlock!”

  65. 65.

    CCL

    November 21, 2019 at 12:47 pm

    So what do you all think is the topic  at lunch for Tr**mp and Republican Senators?  Resign?

  66. 66.

    zhena gogolia

    November 21, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    @schrodingers_cat:

     

    Nunes keeps saying that Democrats tried to obtain nude photos of President Trump from Russian pranksters masquerading as Ukrainians.

  67. 67.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:48 pm

    @trollhattan

    “Filmed in Cinemagrope.”

    //

  68. 68.

    Patricia Kayden

    November 21, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    Impeachment process starting up again.

  69. 69.

    Amir Khalid

    November 21, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Can Trump compel the Navy to put him on the missions where the cool kids get to play?

  70. 70.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    @CCL

    “Sir, if you are impeached and convicted, not only will you be the first but it is guaranteed your name will have a prominent spot in the history books for all time!”

  71. 71.

    Kent

    November 21, 2019 at 12:53 pm

    @Martin:

    I  think a lot of people continue to underestimate how career professionals work. I’ll hope that Adam backs me up here.

     

    When you work in a two-class system like government where you have the political class and the career class, it’s almost always the case that the political class thinks they can get what they want by blustering, while the career class are the ones that learn how to bend with the wind. You learn how to get the infrastructure job of governing, the paper moving, the dollar moving, by figuring out what the motives of the political players are, and then adapting your approach to thread the needle around the political actors that stand in your way. In order to be a career professional at this level and not blow yourself up, you need to be way better at practical bureaucratic politics than the political guys.

     

    Also I don’t think many realize how thin the political class is.  I spent about 15 years working for the National Marine Fisheries Service (now called NOAA Fisheries).  The agency has a large headquarters in Silver Spring MD and dozens of regional offices and laboratories scattered all around the nations coastlines from Woods Hole to Honolulu with thousands of employees.  When I was there I think there were only two political appointees in the entire agency.  The head of NMFS was a political appointee and sometime in the Bush Administration they created a second political appointee position of Ombudsman which was sort of a fixer-guy who would travel around and dive into local conflicts like the turtle excluder devices in the Gulf or sea lions on the west coast.

     

    Everyone else in the entire agency was a career civil service emplyee, and most of them, at least in the higher levels were either scientists or attorneys who all worked through many different administrations, Republican or Democrat.

  72. 72.

    Omnes Omnibus

    November 21, 2019 at 12:56 pm

    @Amir Khalid: I would say no.  But an number of things with this have confused me.  Differences between army and nave traditions, perhaps.  In the army, if you have earned a skill badge you are entitled to wear it, so the talk of taking away his trident is odd.

  73. 73.

    NotMax

    November 21, 2019 at 12:57 pm

    @Kent

    the turtle excluder devices

    Can we install those in the Senate?

    (Somebody had to say it.)   :)

  74. 74.

    MisterForkbeard

    November 21, 2019 at 1:01 pm

    @Yarrow: As a side note, Kevin Cosner is fucking fantastic in Brooklyn 99, but also in The Good Place. Talking about what he does in TGP is kind a spoiler, but it contrasts so well with his character in Brooklyn 99 that it’s hilarious just by itself.

    He’d be a great David Holmes.

  75. 75.

    Elizabelle

    November 21, 2019 at 1:01 pm

    Mistermix has put up a fresh thread for Hill/Holmes testimony.  Here we go again!

  76. 76.

    Kent

    November 21, 2019 at 1:02 pm

    @NotMax: For sure.   Although in point of fact, they are installed in the front of shrimp trawl nets to provide a way for sea turtles to escape getting caught in fishing nets and drowning.   I’d rather see McConnell just get caught in the shrimp net and drown.

  77. 77.

    Leto

    November 21, 2019 at 1:05 pm

    Whew, Dumb Dumb is sticking on script: Steele Dossier! Drink!

  78. 78.

    Cheryl Rofer

    November 21, 2019 at 1:10 pm

    @Martin: I will back you up. I’ve thought about writing a post about how it feels. I’ve been part of this, working for the Los Alamos National Laboratory, and I’ve known a number of State Department people. But too many things happening to have time to write it.

  79. 79.

    BroD

    November 21, 2019 at 1:10 pm

    Gotta think that a number of Republicans are ready for John Bolton to come in and euthanize the Trump presidency.

  80. 80.

    Miss Bianca

    November 21, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    @Ella in New Mexico: What I can’t figure out is HOW the Goon Squad manages to square the circle of believing that HRC, the mastermind criminal of their fever dreams, actually engineered a conspiracy designed to help her LOSE the office she was running for!

     

    Then again, it’s not like logical consistency is a key ingredient to understanding the modern conservative mindset. Quite the opposite, in fact.

  81. 81.

    My Side of Town

    November 21, 2019 at 2:04 pm

    Jim Jacketoff just confirms he is nothing more than a Jackoff. Is he Moe, Curly or Larry?

  82. 82.

    Changerous

    November 21, 2019 at 2:55 pm

    @lollipopguild: Governor LePetomaine for President!

  83. 83.

    Changerous

    November 21, 2019 at 2:58 pm

    @lollipopguild: Governor LePetomaine for President!

    Brooks for Prez, since it’s already a joke

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