This keeps getting more and more fun:
The House of Representatives is investigating whether President Trump lied to former special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation, the House general counsel told a federal appeals court Monday in Washington, D.C.
The statement came during arguments over Congress’s request to have secret grand jury evidence from the Mueller report released urgently for its impeachment inquiry.
The request followed closely on the heels of Friday’s conviction of longtime Trump friend Roger Stone. Testimony and evidence at his trial appeared to cast doubt on written replies from Trump to Mueller about the president’s knowledge about attempts by his 2016 campaign to learn more about the release of hacked Democratic emails by the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks.
“Did the president lie? Was the president not truthful in his responses to the Mueller investigation,” General Counsel Douglas N. Letter said. “The House is trying to determine whether the current president should remain in office. This is unbelievably serious and it’s happening right now, very fast.”
When asking if Trump lied, the answer is always yes.
Roger Moore
We know this, but it’s important to be able to prove that he lied about a specific thing in a specific case.
clay
@Roger Moore: And, even more importantly for impeachment purposes, that he lied to the FBI. Which is a crime. Maybe even a High Crime.
Tim C.
New GOP rule.
Lying about a sleazy extra-marital affair: Impeach and Remove
Lying about using money allocated by congress to extort bribes from a country that’s also the victim of the same dictator that supported your run for the White House: Totally fine.
Jeffro
Shouldn’t the default always be that he is lying, unless somehow he can prove without a doubt that he’s telling the truth?
Like, “For lunch today, I had a Big Mac or six”. He’s lying until we see the six empty cartons, interview the ‘chef’ at the nearest Mickey Ds, etc. Even for something as simple and likely as that.
He lies. He lies about everything. He learned it from Fred – it’s like an achievement for him, a validation.
rikyrah
I, too, have no idea why this is even debateable.
If his mouth his open, it’s a lie.
L-i-e
Roger Moore
@clay:
Slightly more specifically, that his lying to the FBI was an attempt to obstruct justice, since precedent says that is definitely an impeachable high crime.
different-church-lady
WE’RE A NATION OF LAWS!!1!
Roger Moore
@Tim C.:
*Unless you’re lying about violating campaign finance laws by paying off the person you had the sleazy affair with so it won’t come out during your election campaign.
Uncle Cosmo
@clay: Maybe even a Miss de Meaner. Which for all we know is the stage name of some other woman he paid off…
mrmoshpotato
Yes. They lied about inauguration crowd size days into this bastard administration when everyone could see the picture comparisons.
Hell, they probably lied about shit during the transition that we’ve all forgotten about. It’s been a long decade.
debbie
@Tim C.:
Someone also needs to point out to the GOP that Linda Tripp did not witness Monica servicing Bill in the Oval Office, so they were more than happy to accept hearsay and proceed to impeachment. They accepted it then; they must accept it now.
John Revolta
@Uncle Cosmo: Great drag Queen name.
Roger Moore
@debbie:
You’re funny.
Omnes Omnibus
@debbie: Servicing? Really?
Boris, Rasputin's Evil Twin
Trump’s first lie as president* was reciting the Oath of Office.
If he announced the time, I’d look at my watch.
Never thought I’d be considering Nixon’s virtues, or ever thinking he had many.
mrmoshpotato
@Omnes Omnibus: Fill up the tank, check the tires, top off the wiper fluid. Ya know – blowjobs!
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus:
Alert! Scaramouche coming up on TCM at 8:00 EST. “He was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad.”
Stewart Granger swashing his buckles mightily and Eleanor Parker and Janet Leigh straining at their bodices. What’s not to like?
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
Already tuned in.
gene108
From a Republican point of view lying is fine.
Doing it, when you are under oath or in sworn written statements, is a problem because the law is against you.
But the general idea of lying to get ahead is okay.
HumboldtBlue
Arcata High School senior midfielder Bailey Cherms sent her Tiger team to the North Coast Section title game with a strike from outside the box in sudden death against arch-rival Eureka High.
Full story.
Sorry, thought it was open thread.
Ella in New Mexico
@Jeffro:
Although it should be noted that Fred reportedly was not very happy with him and with his early and mid childhood bad behavior, enough to ship him off to military school in hopes he’d avoid becoming an axe murderer. Instead he became a “just this side of jail” sociopath by using his Daddy’s money and access to power.
So maybe it started before Fred? Or maybe he inherited the traits from Fred who was just angry he wasn’t being clever enough at being bad?
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@John Revolta: @Uncle Cosmo: I once attended the (sadly, now defunct) Castro Street Halloween party as Miss Demeanor, The Beauty Queen Gone Bad.
Gvg
@debbie: umm, that was proven by the dna in the seman on the blue dress. I hate even discussing it. It was sleazy television. Until they came out with that scientific evidence that wasn’t partisan, I had disbelieved the whole affair story because the republicans were obviously deranged partisan hacks with a dishonest agenda. They were still crooked hacks even after they proved he lied. Bill really was not being smart there.
West of the Rockies
@Jeffro:
And here’s the big (and often forgotten) point: he lies because he is a criminal, because the truth reveals his absolute bankruptcy of integrity, ethics, compassion, and comprehension.
We blithely say, ” He lies, he lies–lies–lies.” That’s true, of course, but what his lying says about the man himself and his so-called policies is often more important than the lies themself.
“I got the biggest crowd.”
Lie. A lie that, meh, doesn’t affect much. A lie, however, that demonstrates his petty, vain, core disrespect for truth and honor.
NotMax
@Steeplejack
Channel 9 (WOR way back then) in NYC used to have a weekday program called Million Dollar Movie* with a, shall we say, limited inventory. That film was one of those which, when it did come around, would air repeatedly Monday through Friday.
They sometimes did the same with such ‘gems’ as The Crawling Eye, a clunker which came around with alarming frequency.
*Hyperbole to da max.
MomSense
I don’t think anyone has seen him in public since his early, partial physical on Saturday. I checked out his twitter and my hunch is someone else is tweeting for him. Doesn’t seem vitriolic enough to be C+ Santa Monica fascist (h/t Jon Lovett) Stephen Miller so I’m guessing Ivanka.
Wonder what’s up. It could be he had some medical event or maybe he is just looking for an out.
Roger Moore
@Gvg:
I think you’re missing the point. The point is that the Republicans were perfectly happy starting an impeachment investigation based on what was clearly hearsay evidence, because they were eventually able to produce non-hearsay evidence. Now they’re trying to say the whole Democratic investigation is illegitimate because it started with hearsay evidence even though it has succeeded in producing reams of non-hearsay since then. It’s another case of them playing Calvinball.
mrmoshpotato
Rocky Mountain Mike – (Just Take Your Plane Out Of) America
debbie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I endeavored to remain neutral.
debbie
@Gvg:
Umm, that’s not point. They took the hearsay and ran with it. Then the dress, etc.
Another Scott
@mrmoshpotato: Pretty good!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
piratedan
to make matters worse…. I’m told that Trump composed his written testimony while wearing a tan suit and enjoying a burger with mustard on it… there is NO line that this President WILL not cross apparently….
Geoduck
@MomSense: He evidently did meet with the Fed chief, in the White House private residence, so he isn’t completely incapacitated.
zhena gogolia
@NotMax:
One of Forrest Tucker’s finest.
kindness
Trump only has one Go To move. Lie.
NotMax
@Geoduck
“Tell me, Mr. Powell, you up for a trip to Ukraine?”
//
Wag
@Tim C.:
very concise and nicely said
Jeffro
Speaking of lying, and how it’s not just a trumpov thing, Catherine Rampell is on point:
trumpov and the Republicans are on the hunt for the Real Criminals
It’s all about the IOKIYAR, peeps. Always and forever. Dems = illegit, no matter what the facts. GOP = the one true truth.
Steeplejack
@zhena gogolia:
I was thinking of you this afternoon when I watched part of No Leave, No Love (1946) on TCM. Van Johnson, Keenan Wynn, Edward Arnold and a British singer named Pat Kirkwood. So-so movie, very much of its time, but not awful.
I looked up Kirkwood, because I had never seen her before, and found (on IMDB) that after the movie bombed she had a breakdown, attempted suicide and was in a sanatorium for eight months. Wow!
Then she went back to England, where apparently she had a very successful career through the ’50s and beyond. Noël Coward wrote a musical (Ace of Clubs, 1950) specifically for her.
Anyhow, I thought it was an interesting side story.
Emma
@Gvg:
Actually it was all hearsay at first. And just to put the cork in it, originally the investigation had nothing to do with sex. When Whitewater turned up zip, they expanded the investigation.
Hungry Joe
In the novel “The Death of Vishnu,” author Manil Suri describes an office worker (in Mumbai, I think) who lies about EVERYTHING. Quoting from memory: ”He even lied about what he’d brought for lunch. Every day he’d climb to the top of the building and eat alone, on the roof, so no one would know that he’d lied.” When I read the book — late ‘90s, probably — I found it a hilarious exaggeration: Surely there are no such people in real life.
Then …
Raven
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: I knew a young lady who, when ticketed for skateboarding, gave her name as “Miranda Rights”!
Steeplejack
@NotMax:
All of those movies have moved to third-tier cable channels and lesser streaming services.
Hungry Joe
@zhena gogolia: I saw “The Crawling Eye” many times on channels 5 and 13 out of L.A. To this day I don’t feel at ease unless I have a couple of Molotov cocktails in easy reach.
zhena gogolia
@Steeplejack:
I’ve been following Phillipa Fallon down the rabbit hole (see the earlier thread where her beatnik poetry in High School Confidential was posted).
Barbara
@Hungry Joe: I had a roommate who lied relentlessly about everything. And yet she managed to charm many people.
Amir Khalid
@HumboldtBlue:
The golden goal lives!
Steve in the ATL
@Steeplejack:
You know good and well that Balloon Juice After Dark doesn’t start until 11 pm eastern
Amir Khalid
@Barbara:
The inveterate lying and the charm are often both part of the sociopath’s skill set.
oatler.
Like Norman Mailer said about “The Naked Lunch”, republicans are now divorced from eternity.
Chief Oshkosh
Oh, right. I forgot – it was an act of love between two star-crossed lovers. ;)
Dan B
@MomSense: Interesting that Trump hasn’t been seen in public since his field trip to the big doctors. It would fit with my partner’s belief that it was a stroke or many mini-strokes like when he can’t pronounce words mid speech.
Ruckus
@Jeffro:
Lying is the only actual thing he’s learned in life.
Boy has to be good and/or consistent at something. He chose lying.
sdhays
@Dan B: Don’t worry. The Press Secretary has assured us that he is “super-human” and “vigorous”, so I’m sure everything is fine.
Amir Khalid
@Dan B:
At some point Trump has to be seen in public, or by the media, or at least by the White House staff, while “presidenting”. As head of state and government he doesn’t really have the option of hiding for much longer than a weekend.
sdhays
@Amir Khalid: His Executive Time is now too vigorous and important to allow for trivial things like “putting on pants” and “being seen in public”. That’s why he had to get Part 1 of his Annual Physical this weekend – to clear his schedule for all of the Executive Time he knew he’d need from now on. His powers of planning are super-human!
I can’t wait for Annual Physical – Part Deux. Where will they find the time in his busy schedule??
zhena gogolia
This is just impressionistic, but are we a little less testy now that we don’t have to keep typing in our nyms and e-mail addresses?
FlyingToaster
Sounds like he might have had a TIA. Worrisome enough for a trip to ambulatory care, not so much as the ER or checked-in to the hospital.
My dad had a TIA a year before he had his stroke, which was a year and a half before they figured out that he had myoletic leukemia and 3 months to live. It was pretty clear in hindsight that this was all of a piece, and the munged blood marrow was wreaking havoc years before it finally killed him.
By the way, this is all crazy bad news to anyone who wants the Orange Shitgibbon to be re-elected. His health will definitely NOT be up to it.
patrick II
Question (hinted at on Ari tonight)
If Trump would leave office tomorrow, would you let him walk?
The Republicans in the Senate will not convict, he may not lose in 2020 (you never know). Is it worth the danger of his continuing presidency, or would you let him walk?
zhena gogolia
The Holmes transcript is out and it is juicy.
I am going to have a tough row to hoe tomorrow, as I will not be able to keep WaPo livestreaming the hearings. I really wish I could hear Vindman in real time.
cain
@Jeffro:
Just ask them why it wasn’t taken care of internally for Benghazi, Cletus, etc etc? You can get these guys so easily with whatever bullshit they are spouting because they’ve broken every rule in the book. There is nothing they have not done that we can’t call them on by showing actual examples. They are immoral boils that must be lanced.
mrmoshpotato
@Another Scott: Rocky Mountain Mike has a channel full of Dump-centric parodies.
zhena gogolia
@patrick II:
Very tough question. He is a uniquely malignant figure, so I’m inclined to say yes. Pence won’t have the slavering crowds.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@patrick II: We did that with Nixon, how’d that work out?
mrmoshpotato
@piratedan: Spicy mustard! And Melinie was wearing a sleeveless dress that day.
cain
@Steve in the ATL:
Really? Wow. Will Shannon Tweed be joining us? (I tried to look up a male version, but there aren’t any popular ones!) In any case, all I need is my whiskey, folks!
mrmoshpotato
@Jeffro: Better Call OJ! Netflix, let’s talk!
For ever and ever. Fuckem!
Jay
According to the Mob, ( not sure if it’s the Russians or Italians), Dolt 45 lies, even when he doesn’t have to, just for the practice.
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid:
He’s scheduled to have one of his maga rallies at Sunrise, FL on Tuesday November 26 at 7 PM EST.
Cheers,
Scott.
Miss Bianca
@zhena gogolia: From his testimony? Or is this his opening statement?
I’m still foaming with rage from having read his statement!
Omnes Omnibus
@Steeplejack: Just got back from the gym and found it.
Barbara
@Amir Khalid: She was amazing, that’s for sure. Now selling real estate in Florida, or at least was the last time I looked her up.
sdhays
@patrick II: What do you mean “let him walk”? Let him resign? Absolutely. Let him move on without having to face consequences for his crimes? No. Congressional investigations must continue, and I expect the next Democratic Administration in 2021 to go after the traitorous fools.
But if he resigns, I might be ok with not impeaching him, as long as Congress continues to get to the bottom of all the corruption in the Dump Dense administration. He may be central to the problem, but it’s much bigger than just him.
Sab
@FlyingToaster: Bummer. ///
Steeplejack
@sdhays:
As the great efgoldman said: “Pants? You gotta put ’em on, you gotta take ’em off. They’re a lot of trouble.”
zhena gogolia
@Miss Bianca:
I don’t know — it’s on Kyle Griffin’s twitter so I thought it was something new.
Maybe this was already leaked but now it’s official.
NEW: The House Intelligence Committee has just released the depositions of Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs David Hale and State Dept. official David Holmes. David Hale: https://bit.ly/2NXzuHK David Holmes: https://bit.ly/2NYvmXZ
Sm*t Cl*de
@Jay: It would set a bad precedent to tell the truth, even on a matter of no importance.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: *looks up The Crawling Eye*
Oh man. Schlock written all over it! :)
Mnemosyne
@Jeffro:
Sweet Jesus.
John Revolta
@cain:
They are immoral boils that must be lanced.
This is kind of a nice turn of phrase. You could get a job working
for North Korea’s press office!
Miss Bianca
@zhena gogolia: Aw, shit. What have you done to meee….(down the rabbit hole I go).
Jay
Mnemosyne
@cain:
For those of us of a certain age, Bruce Campbell fills the “male Shannon Tweed” role.
You’re welcome.
Villago Delenda Est
Is Donald Trump lying?
Is the Pope Catholic? Does a bear shit in the woods?
mrmoshpotato
@zhena gogolia:
I’m sure everyone who broadcasts it will have it in full on YouTube.
(Don’t watch the Russthuglican “questioning” while eating or around anything throwable.)
Villago Delenda Est
@Jay: White Supremacists should be treated like Al Qaeda, like Daesh.
And that’s also how the NRA should be treated.
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
Poor Donald — he got all the lying, and NONE of the charm~!!~
Another Scott
@Sm*t Cl*de: Yup.
As Capt. Mnemo reminds us, Donnie is a narcissist:
Supposedly he said that he’s “strongly considering” providing written testimony to the House. Sure he is…
Cheers,
Scott.
sdhays
@Another Scott: Maybe he’ll submit it along with his Infrastructure Bill and a bill to close the gun show loop hole.
TomatoQueen
@Steeplejack: Such swashes and buckles! That was great stuff.
Ruckus
@Ella in New Mexico:
Fred was no prince and the shit stain didn’t fall far from the shorts.
lgerard
@NotMax:
Jeez, I saw The Crawling Eye a billion times on Million Dollar Movie back in the day. It was right up there with The Giant Behemoth and The Giant Claw in my trinity of great cinema.
Bill Arnold
FWIW, Marcy Wheeler/emptywheel spotted some different lies related to M. Cohen and D.J. Trump’s related answers to Mueller’s questions in May:
Michael Cohen’s HPSCI Testimony Proves Trump Lied in his Answers to Mueller (May 21, 2019, emptywheel)
Long and detailed, but if there are multiple provable lies it’s a more convincing line of attack. (I was irritated at self for not spotting it at the time. :-)
HumboldtBlue
@Amir Khalid:
Indeed!
CIF knows!
Bill Arnold
@Bill Arnold:
Interesting, another lie:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/11/16/gop-accuses-trump-of-lying-to-mueller-in-latest-defense-against-impeachment/
(Crimea, via Jim Jordan)
Three (+) lies suggests a pattern. :-)
wuzzat
I mean, yes, obviously, but also that’ s a little stilted. Do you think he phrased it like that so the press couldn’t spin it, or does General Counsel Douglas N. Letter always talk like he’s a character in the SuperDictionary? (Example)
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@patrick II: No. Fiat justicia ruat caelum. Letting ’em walk led us down the path we’re on now.
Ruckus
@Villago Delenda Est:
All these years I thought that was:
Is a bear Catholic? Does the Pope shit in the woods?
Damn, wrong again.
Citizen Alan
@sdhays: I’d still want to impeach him post-resignation because I don’t want my tax dollars being squandered on overpriced Mar-A-Lago golf carts for the Secret Service agents who would otherwise follow Shitgibbon around for the rest of his life. I would want impeachment proceedings to continue even if he died in office because I don’t want any of his garbage-children to get any sort of benefit as a result of his presidency*.
barbequebob
@NotMax: I watched that movie a gazillion times I love The Crawling Eye. Also used to watch March of the Wooden Soldiers every Thanksgiving, but think it was on Channel 11, WPIX.
Sm*t Cl*de
@Another Scott:
One of my PhD students wrote his dissertation on Narcissistic Personality Disorder among executives so yes, I can see all the symptoms.
Uncle Cosmo
@mrmoshpotato: Remember how the Thugs used to cackle that Bill Clinton “never told the truth when a lie would do” – ?
Once again, accusation is confession.
Citizen Scientist
Also: the answer is yes. Gym Jordan is a giant a-hole.