The second day of the House impeachment hearings is scheduled to get started at 9:00 AM EST. Expect more of what we observed on Wednesday. The Democrats on the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence focused on fact finding through Ambassador Yovanovitch’s testimony while the Republicans attempt to use the hearing as an information laundry to promote the conspiracy theories and agitprop that they want people to believe exonerates the President.
Update at 9:10 AM EST
News broke late last night that one of the senior career civil servants at the Office of Management and Budget assigned to the White House with firsthand information of the illegal orders to hold up the congressionally mandated and appropriated aid for Ukraine will give a closed door deposition if subpoenaed. We now know the officials name, that he has been subpoenaed, and that he’ll likely sit for that deposition tomorrow.
Mark Sandy, a senior White House budget official, is prepared to testify Saturday to House impeachment investigators about the halt in Ukrainian aid moneyhttps://t.co/dzwopQIOxM
— POLITICO (@politico) November 15, 2019
The President is going to have a very, very, very, very bad weekend. As is Mick Mulvaney. And several others.
Here’s the live feed:
Open thread!
Gin & Tonic
I see the new blog re-design maintains the essential element of front-pagers bigfooting each other.
Ohio Mom
This morning I decided I was less disgusted and repelled by the Trump family’s crimes than I am about the Republicans closing ranks.
Not that I’m not horrified by Trump, constantly. But the Republicans’ defense of him, their complete acceptance of everything he does — they are going to roll over on us essentially abandoning South Korea, aren’t they? — leaves me in something of a panic.
P.S. My Nym and email STILL there! Woot!
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: I am both unamused and don’t know what the fuck is up with that.
Adam L Silverman
I’ve added an update up top with this new information:
Cheryl Rofer
I’ve deleted my post, which duplicates this.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: I’m sure Congressman Nunes will mention the double posting of the live feed before he finishes his diatribe.
japa21
@Adam L Silverman:
Isn’t this diatribe pretty much the same as the first?
Adam L Silverman
Great, Nunes is now reading the MEMCON (memorialization of conversation) of the President’s first call with President Zelensky back in May to prove that nothing bad could’ve happened on the call in July where he tried to shake Zelensky down.
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: He’s added a few new items. Such as Schiff’s threat to refer ethics charges if any of them try to get the name of the guy they allege is the whistleblower into the record; that the Republicans don’t actually know who the whistleblower is, which may only be true because it is possible the guy they’ve been publicly alleging for two weeks now is not the actual whistleblower; and now the May 2019 phone call MEMCON.
Hilfy
Why isn’t Nunes wearing his Congressional pin?
JWR
Hmm, I actually got a “First!”, and then on refresh, I got a page not found and my first is gone. ~ Poof ~
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Well, it’s kinda funny to those of us in the cheap seats. These days I take my humor where I can get it.
Mary G
It’s hard to listen to Nunes read Twitler babbling on about Miss Universe having great Ukrainian contestants.
Adam L Silverman
Elise Stefanik has decided to pipe up. The Princess of Plywood has thoughts and will not be denied! As will Gym Jordan.
Adam L Silverman
Jordan’s going to blow a gasket.
JWR
Wow! Schiff is really bringing it. Lots of “the gentle person is not recognized.”
Gin & Tonic
@Mary G: Let me know when he starts quoting Lennon & McCartney on the subject.
Emma
Moi aussi. Exactly. Having lived in Long Island for 10 years, I knew from Trump. But watching Republicans immolate themselves on his behalf makes me sick to my stomach.
Gin & Tonic
One of the things that disgusts me about the position that Trump has put these people in is that they have to spend a ton of money on lawyers just to get the truth into the record. Career Foreign Service Officers are paid well for civil servants, sure, and they don’t have to live on cat food, but the kind of legal assistance they need when they prepare to testify before HPSCI is not inexpensive.
schrodingers_cat
@Emma: Is it the money, ideology or do PuT have the dirt on them?
JoeyJoeJoe
If Democrats are looking for pizazz today, I suggest this guy:
raymescallado.com/2018/12/365-days-of-gifs-day-356-meet-zach-pizzazz-the-good-place/
Potential Good Place spoilers by the way
schrodingers_cat
My reply to Emma has not appeared, WTF?
ETA: It has now. I have no idea what is going on.
Must be the one of the upgrades I have been hearing about.
Elizabelle
Her recounting of the actual physical danger she and other foreign service professionals face … Trump is a coward who would never be IN that field to begin with.
Devin Nunes is a rogue prosecutor. I wish that he had to take an oath to tell the truth under penalty of perjury.
artem1s
These guys…. they’ve been at it for so long. Frog in the boiling water syndrome. I started to get pretty vocal about how awful they all were after the Brooks Brothers riot. I used to get chastised pretty regularly about how I was being rude to all the good Republicans. Even while Rush was screaming feminazi all day and night; and Turdblossom was plotting to suppress Dems votes – we were the rude ones for merely pointing in the direction of the latest awful thing they were doing. The bothsiderism was infuriating. This horror show was gestated by Karl Rove and Louie Gohmert and birthed by Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell and they are proud of their little offspring. It’s pretty much why I’ve been ambivalent about impeachment. It’s only the first step of a very difficult war that may have to go on for decades.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Gin & Tonic:
Obviously they’re overpaid, living high on the hog on the poor taxpayer’s dime.
Elizabelle
Such incredible parallels between her observations on Ukraine’s problems with corruption, and what is now going on here. Very well written statement.
Cacti
@artem1s:
Nah, the House GOP in its present form is the progeny of Newt Gingrich.
Cheryl Rofer
catclub
That seems important.
Mary G
Steve Castor, the attorney that represents the Republicans, has terrible posture. He hunches his shoulders and lowers his head like he wishes he was a turtle that could hide in his shell.
Cheryl Rofer
Yovanovitch is knocking down all the Republican lies about her, systematically.
catclub
@schrodingers_cat: There is both the browser refresh ( the circular arrow on mine, and th refresh key inside BJ as well. I try them both.
Kay
@Adam L Silverman:
More wrestlers are coming out saying Jordan knew. I hope the law firm Ohio State hired to investigate isn’t corrupt because it seems to me someone has to act on this information and apparently this private law firm is the first and last line of defense.
They may be corrupted too. Jordan is a powerful pol in Ohio and Ohio State is a powerful institution. They may take care of their own.
I do not understand why this particular set of victims don’t matter. Gymnasts matter, wrestlers don’t. It is baffling to me. Something is skewing both the coverage and the inquiry because it doesn’t make any sense.
NotMax
@Elizabelle
But no pizazzy wardrobe malfunction to grab the MSM’s attention.
;)
?BillinGlendaleCA
OT: The lack of a working reply function is making threads very confusing.
Eric
Kletpocrats have no borders
Starfish
@schrodingers_cat: You are Schrodinger’s Cat. It is a feature that you’re comment is there and not there all at once.
Emma
this is for S-Cat, just in case because I don’t see my previous reply AS a reply. Los tres, depending on who we are talking about. Some are venal, some are racial supremacists, some are idiots.
Ohio Mom
I can’t watch the hearings live this morning so I’ll be following along here and on Wonkette
— Wonkette did a good job of live-blogging on Wednesday. Accurate to the point they didn’t have much opportunity to inject much snark.
marion
Anyone who wishes to can donate to the Foreign Service Legal Defense Fund to help defray the costs. afsa.org/donate
JPL
Nunes wants to impress trump and Fox viewers. Do Fox viewers like to fantasize about a naked trump?
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: Collegiate and olympic style wrestlers are a bunch of hypermasculine muscle heads. It’s hard to come off as vulnerable when you look like you can rip someone’s arms off and shove them up their nose. Female gymnasts, for all that they are some of the most physically fit, muscular, toned, and pound for pound relative to their mass strongest people on the planet, look like 12 year old girls in sparkly makeup. That’s the difference.
Adam L Silverman
Ruh Roh!
Marcopolo
As I listen to the Ambassador reading her statement (and Kent & Taylor on Wed) I am again reminded of the hard, amazing, principled work that so many brilliant talented folks do on our behalf as they work in our government.
I can’t think of anything currently occurring in the Trump administration that I don’t despise wholeheartedly but among their worst offenses is the way Trump & members of his team have abused, disrespected, and worked hard to destroy the civil servants/service of our country. It will take years to recover from this (if we actually ever can) malevolent active pursuit of enfeebling our government.
Also, good for Schiff in putting the hammer/gavel down on the Republican hacks.
Elizabelle
Phenomenal opening statement. Right up there with the whistleblower’s letter in clear writing. And she goes further, in outlining the importance of expressed American values, vs. the corruption we’re swimming through with the Trump admin.
With Amb Y: what is at stake. We have to prevail here. And maybe she is giving GOP senators some cover. You know some of them do not want to see the State Department so badly degraded. Cannot say how many, but some may decide to go to bat in an impeachment vote. There may be a few who have to live with themselves after.
Cheryl Rofer
She is talking about Pompeo’s failure to stand up for her.
Mary G
This woman is so impressive and eloquent. Too bad the Village will sneer at her lack of pizzazz.
Kay
I’m fatalistic about these hearings which is, oddly, a relief. It wasn’t a choice. They either bring impeachment for this or impeachment is effectively dead letter and the President can do anything. Having the worst case scenario happen can be easier, because there’s no decisions involved.
Pizaz or no pizaz, this had to happen. If it didn’t it means our system of government no longer functions in any meaningful way and is completely corrupted.
pluky
I checked out her wiki page last night. She’s not just another Foreign Service ambassador type. Her rank is “Career Minister” (equivalent to a 3-star general in the military)! There is only one higher. That she can give a cogent and precise analysis of a situation should not be any big surprise.
Elizabelle
I loved Kent’s statement about pissing off corrupt people when you fight corruption.
Holds true in the Ukraine and on this side of the pond. I would like to see Trump cronies go to jail over this. Public corruption.
Elizabelle
@ Cheryl Rofer: Amb Y took no prisoners in her statement.
I think it is going to be a historic record, when people study this administration. I hope it is the middle of the end for the misrule of the Republicans.
Baud
@Kay: I agree completely.
Kay
@Adam L Silverman:
I feel like it’s such an opportunity for education on abuse though- that it ISN’T about the weakness of the victims. It’s about the power of the perpetrators and the weakness of these institutions to hold their own accountable. Including them opens the whole thing up for people to take a real look at it and stop ranking events based on the status of the victims. That’s the wrong direction to look. That isn’t what happens, it isn’t how this works.
James E Powell
I’m a Buckeye who is too often embarrassed by the way The OSU handles things. You would think the opportunities for engaging in limitless sanctimony and doing a major house-cleaning would appeal to somebody.
When they close ranks on things, I just assume that they are hiding something even worse.
Librarian
I like the new, bigger Balloon Man.
Immanentize
@Baud: Moi aussi
schrodingers_cat
@catclub: It needed multiple refreshes. It did need even one earlier.
Redshift
Can’t resist quoting myself from yesterday (on Twitter); my reaction to Steve Castor’s performance:
JWR
Listening to Yovanovitch, just in giving her job description, all I can think about is adding Treason to the articles of impeachment. She is good. Very forthright and compelling.
Adam L Silverman
@Kay: I agree, unfortunately too much of this is rooted in concepts of masculinity and physical appearance. And until/unless that gets set aside, it will be an uphill battle to get to the truth, let alone justice for the victims.
Omnes Omnibus
Yes, it is. It shouldn’t be, but it is. Why do attractive, missing, white girls get media coverage when murdered POC don’t? The perceived status of the victim matters in our society.
Kay
@Marcopolo:
I agree. do not understand not coming to the defense of your own people. Especially in the case of Trump hires, because the career people are so obviously higher quality employees than the Trump appointees.
I can’t think of anything currently occurring in the Trump administration that I don’t despise wholeheartedly but among their worst offenses is the way Trump & members of his team have abused, disrespected, and worked hard to destroy the civil servants/service of our country.
Kay
@Marcopolo:
I agree. do not understand not coming to the defense of your own people. Especially in the case of Trump hires, because the career people are so obviously higher quality employees than the Trump appointees.
I can’t think of anything currently occurring in the Trump administration that I don’t despise wholeheartedly but among their worst offenses is the way Trump & members of his team have abused, disrespected, and worked hard to destroy the civil servants/service of our country.
bystander
False eyelashes and some rhinestone cateye glasses and she’d be really effective.
She is devastating. Gym is going to look extra dumb today.
rikyrah
Want to hear the phrase SHADOW GOVERNMENT a lot today.
What happened to the Ambassador was a damn shame.
Cheryl Rofer
Trump is trashing her on Twitter.
Keith P
And that she should smile more.
Cheryl Rofer
Elizabelle
@ Kay:
Wonder if there is any way they can roll out some impeachment charges related to that.
hells littlest angel
@Mary G: Pizzazz, according to the OED: “an attractive combination of vitality and style.” Marie Yovanovitch has that in spades.
Matt McIrvin
@schrodingers_cat: Every political incentive pushes them to close ranks, regardless of the damage to their souls. The Republicans lost big in the 70s for caving on Nixon. They ultimately benefited from standing firm on Iran-Contra. They learned those lessons. Never admit you’re wrong, always support the side, and attack, attack, attack. It’s always worked for them.
rikyrah
Schiff was the right choice. I think he was seething for those 2 years that Nunes was in charge. He was livid. I bet he was methodically going over in his head what he would do once he was in charge.
zhena gogolia
This is just breaking my heart.
Gin & Tonic
@Mary G: I have a friend who has worked with her. While I can’t watch her testimony now, she is exactly as some of you are describing her.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: What is it with him and “the President’s absolute right” stuff?
Elizabelle
This is really making me angry. It is so perverse, and so wrong.
I think this could bring Trump down. Has to bring down his sycophants too. Any thoughts on whether there are reachable Republican senators out there? We have to find the ones who would rather throw in with Ambassador Y than with the morons in the GOP base.
Elizabelle
@ Matt McIrvin:
Until it doesn’t any more. Nixon was kindergarten compared to this. The corruption of our relationships overseas. Nixon was not president in a time when fascism was rearing its ugliness like the 1930s.
Kay
@Elizabelle:
The truth is they measure worth by money and civil servants don’t make enough.
It’s no more complicated than that. Sondland is simply a more valuable person than any of the civil servants who know more than he does, work harder, and are not dishonest.
Sondland may have done us a all a favor. He’s SO fucking bad he might have killed the “big donor gets ambassadorship” bullshit for all time. Good. Let’s try a merit based system. See if that works better.
Elizabelle
This is really devastating. And easy to understand, really.
Much more so than Taylor and Kent, good as they were.
schrodingers_cat
Marie Yovanovitch makes me proud to be an American.
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam Silverman:
Strong women are particularly evil in his little mind.
CarolDuhart2
Now it’s clearer what the power imbalance here is. Sure, you could beat someone’s head in, but that ends your scholarship and your education. And perhaps your hope for a medal sometime down the road. Plus people like this are emotionally manipulative, and the kids so sheltered due to training, that a lot of kids believe whatever it is the abusers say.
We could do worse than start promoting professional civil servants to full Ambassador status from time to time.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: I was tracking on that, but he also uses it elsewhere. For instance, in reference to pardons, to not have conflicts of interest, etc.
japa21
The more I listen I think the “security” that was referenced as a reason she had to come home really did involve her physical security.
JWR
Trump is a friggin’ Mobster through and through. (He’s just not very good when it comes to doing required crimes.)
Cheryl Rofer
@Adam L Silverman: That’s his “Article 2” go-to. According to him, Article 2 of the Constitution gives him authority to do anything he wants.
It is true that he can hire and fire ambassadors. The Secretary of State should be in the loop, however, and Pompeo has been AWOL. Is he in the country today? Trying very hard to keep his head down.
JPL
The White House issued a statement saying that he was not watching because he was busy doing the work for Americans.
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: We’ve had diplomatic and/or for cover personnel (non Foreign Service serving in country under diplomatic cover/orders) beaten badly in Russia by Russian security services. Given Putin’s wetwork program, it isn’t hard to imagine, given the Putin aligned oligarchs involved with this mess, that she her actual, physical well being was at risk. I’d love to see the State Department’s Regional Security Officer’s threat assessment for Embassy Kyiv from this time period.
Cheryl Rofer
Schiff now laying the groundwork for a charge of witness intimidation by the President.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Yep, he’s Barr’s perfect dummy.
As for Pompeo, I have no idea. He could be on a diplomatic trip, he could be in Kansas.
Elizabelle
@ Cheryl Rofer:
Trump: more projection. Everywhere Y… was went bad.
She: “I don’t think I have such powers.”
He is such a fucker.
Elizabelle
@Cheryl Rofer: Yes. And it is warranted.
Jay C
Did you read TPM yesterday? Josh Marshall was pushing an analysis piece that brought up a sort-of-forgotten factoid in all the Ukrainian mess: that the Trump Admin had been trying to leverage military aid to the Ukraine over dirt-digging on the Bidens for quite a while. But they had been doing it with the previous (Poroshenko) government, whom they assumed was going to win reelection (and who seemed to have been on board with the Trumprrhoids’ extortion). However, they were supposedly nonplussed when Zelenskiy actually won, and had to (basically) start from scratch. With a new government who had not been in on the game. Hence Giuliani’s frantic efforts in – and after the new crew took over in Kyiv
ADD: meant to be a reply to Cheryl @ #69
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Schiff is exceedingly sharp. The moment found its person if I may adjust the phrase to be less sexist.
japa21
@Adam L Silverman: I think the threat was from more than the Russians.
Renie
Just watched Adam Schiff talk about intimidation of witnesses and when he finished the camera angle showed Nunes and Jordan smirking at each other. Reminded me of middle-schoolers’ reaction after the teacher corrected them for fooling around in the classroom. Absolutely no dignity with those two.
Steeplejack
@Cheryl Rofer:
LOL, Trump is live-tweeting the hearing that he is not watching, and Schiff is reading parts of his tweet verbatim.
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: The other way to look at it, or respond to it, would be “I take pride in my supervisors’ confidence in my abilities as demonstrated by them sending me on the most difficult and challenging assignments where I would be tested.”
Adam L Silverman
@Jay C: I did a front page post on that here over a year ago.
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: It was, or, rather, from those aligned with and/or contracted out to the Russians.
Cheryl Rofer
hells littlest angel
@JWR: He thinks he’s Tony Soprano, but he’s really Pauley Walnuts.
My Side of Town
Our p*resident is a monster.
Jay C
@Adam L Silverman: Of course you did: got a link?
So we can confirm that you were not only accurate, but prescient??
Just One More Canuck
Some are all three (for Emma at 39)
Kay
@Cheryl Rofer:
Wow. That is amazing.
I really like Schiff. I admire his ability to stay focused and his fearlessness. I’m glad he’s on our side.
Elizabelle
@ Adam S:
I know. The noncorrupted State Department was sending its best.
I want this to take Pompeo down too. Rapidly, relatively.
Steeplejack
@Renie:
Gym Jordan perfectly deconstructed:
Elizabelle
This is riveting television. It’s dramatic, and moves quickly.
Eric NNY
Elise Stefanik is my Congresscritter unfortunately. She was mildly annoying before; doesn’t hold many town halls, doesn’t deal with media, carpetbagger, etc. She didn’t hesitate to carefully disagree with Trump in the past. But now, this impeachment has made her veer wildly into wingnut territory. Won’t have much impact up here in solid R territory, but makes you wonder what she gains. She’d still be re-elected if she stayed moderate.
Elizabelle
They’re breaking for votes. So we can have a fresh thread for the next segment.
zhena gogolia
@My Side of Town:
Совершенно верно. You’re absolutely right. (I just can’t get over having Cyrillic.)
Just One More Canuck
Some are venal, some are racial supremacists, some are idiots.
Some are all three
JWR
Trump is live tweeting the hearing. (And I sure hope this post don’t break nothing. But it looks good in preview, so fingers crossed!)
Adam L Silverman
@Jay C: I’ll see if I can figure out which post it was in.
Elizabelle
@Steeplejack: I love the idea of Boomhauer voice with Jordan’s face and actions.
The Boomhauer News Hour. Crazy Town even you don’t want to visit.
mrmoshpotato
@JWR: Does Popehat need to add ‘Someone did the Treason?’?
Elizabelle
@JWR: He is such a fucker.
BUT: this means he is feeling the hits. Hard.
patroclus
Trump’s tweet was witness intimidation in real time. It should be added as an article of impeachment.
zhena gogolia
@My Side of Town:
In fact, those were my first thoughts the moment I opened my eyes this morning.
We heard a Bach concert last night with a cantata all about hypocrisy. It seemed to have been written with Trump and his sycophants in mind.
Cheryl Rofer
I’m outa here for a while.
Ambassador Yovanovitch’s experience is too much like an experience I’ve had – at a lower level, of course. I don’t think I can watch the Republicans harass her.
Gin & Tonic
@Jay C:
Then they are fucking idiots. Anyone who follows Ukrainian politics even slightly, knew for quite some time that Poroshenko was toast. Zelensky’s win didn’t surprise anyone knowledgeable.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Я рад за тебя.
rikyrah
@Kay:
You are right. These hearing had to happen. We had no choice. I’m not expecting anything other than to do the process as it should be done.
Ella in New Mexico
I get it if Pompeo can’t stop Trump from Tweeting real time insults against distinguished Foreign Service professionals, but if he doesn’t resign today, walk out the front door of the White House and head directly to Congress to testify then he, too, should face conspiracy charges in the next administration.
rikyrah
@Jay C:
I did read that tweet and it was like putting together more pieces of the puzzle.
JoeyJoeJoe
Some of the Republicans in Congress whose careers ended were among Nixon’s strongest defenders. See Earl Landgrebe, who said that he would have to be shot before supporting impeachment on the day before Nixon resigned, and was defeated for re-election 61-39 in a district that had given Nixon 74% of the vote in 1972
JWR
And one who looks just like Cory Lewandowski.
Marcopolo
@Jay C: Actually, they had already had success with getting the Poroshenko administration to drop the Ukraine corruption investigation of Manafort. So, yeah, Zelinskyy’s election blindsided them & they had to start from scratch, as it were.
Kattails
Hehehe take a look at the words that are trending on Mirriam-Webster at the moment–“bribe” “insidious” “lynch” etc. I wandered over to refresh my memory on “treason” & believe the hollowing out of our governmental institutions qualifies.
Thanks Adam/Cheryl for following this, I gotta get some work done but can check in here and there.
rikyrah
@Ohio Mom:
I feel you. From the beginning, this has been my big issue. The Founding Fathers actually saw someone like Dolt45 coming. They saw him coming.
What they could have never imagined was a political party practicing group TREASON against this country.
The South Korea thing is ridiculous. And, this is going to be part of the receipts. Never again, and I do mean NEVER AGAIN, will the GOP be able to purse their lips about ‘ National Security’ or
‘Foreign Policy’…not after this clownery. First, the genocide of the Kurds and now this?
PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
Matt McIrvin
@Elizabelle: The last healthier example is really before the modern conservative movement: conservatives ultimately benefited from dropping McCarthy and the Birchers in the 1950s. But it was a different era, when the most divisive issue in the country (race/civil rights) wasn’t polarized along party lines but across them.
jeffreyw
@Adam L Silverman: You should send Josh a link.
mrmoshpotato
@Steeplejack:
“Embassater Mary Yovanoch is saying luxurious and tremendous bigly thinks about me. I’m the greatest. No puppet. No puppet.”
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Kind of makes you wonder how this all would have played out if Poroshenko had won.
oldgold
Trump’s real time attack on Yovanovitch was a big mistake.
Just One More Canuck
Performing on a stool
We’ve a sight to make you drool
Seven virgins and a mule
Keep it cool. Keep it cool
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah:
I don’t know… past experience suggests to me that “never again” translates to 12 to 18 months, tops.
mrmoshpotato
@JWR:
Can we add ‘Crimes against the English language’ to the articles of impeachment?
patroclus
Even Ken Starr on Fox is calling it witness intimidation and that the President shouldn’t have done it.
artem1s
Oh my. How could I have forgotten Newt and his temper tantrum over a seat assignment that shut down the government! We need a full deck of cards to highlight all the Deplorables!
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
I’m with you. I’ll be pleased to be wrong, and this time we won’t repeat the cycle again.
HalfAssedHomesteader
Sounds like Guilianni’s bus is revving up.
Baud
@patroclus: Wow. Now that’s news. He’s a toady.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: I don’t do speculative history.
Kayla Rudbek
Hard concur on that. I’m to the point where my Cold War military brat prejudice against Russia is in full spate. I joke with my spouse that the only way I am ever setting foot in the Russian embassy is as the head of the demolition squad.
UncleEbeneezer
Side note: we saw Schiff at an event on White Supremacy in Pasadena a couple months ago. He was great. He had impressive command/understanding of Systemic Racism, White Privilege, Fragility etc., far better than most white people/elected officials, and has a long history of calling out the terrorism of white supremacists (going back at least to a synagogue shooting 20+ years ago), without sugar-coating his language and trying to push legislation to address the problem. He clearly had done his homework and was passionate about being on the right side. I like him already, but I came away even more impressed.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
OK you Russian speakers. Can you weigh in on the Keev / Kyev / Kyiv controversy? We heard that both Taylor and Kent pronounced it with a single vowel as Keev, as if doing a German reading of the IE combination.
But from the little I know of Russian, I would think the two separate vowels in Киев are separately pronounced, so that would make “Kyev” correct. And I don’t know where “Kyiv” is coming from.
Is this perhaps a Ukrainian vs Russian difference?
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
I don’t engage in arguments in which I treat speculative history as probable, but I do ponder it.
Bruce K
Juliet Foxtrot Charlie, I can’t believe I’m actually hoping that Trump goes completely out of control and destroys the GOP in his incompetence before they can destroy America.
patroclus
When I visited Kyev as part of a jazz band, we had just arrived from Russia and called it “Ky-ev.” Our Ukranian hosts pronounced it “Keev.”
Baud
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
It’s The Kiev.
p.a.
Had the misfortune to be by a TV with volume up for Nunes opening statement. Lost a few i.q. points while listening. And I can’t afford to lose any.
gene108
12-28 months seems optimistic.
I think their mea culpa from the 2008 financial crisis lasted 6 months, and was total forgotten, after they were sworn in, after 2010 wave election.
Raven
I’d go in behind if I were you.
Joey Maloney
If’n I had to guess, it would be that it has to do with the fact that the wrestlers are boys. Admitting that boys can be sexually assaulted threatens not just their masculinity, but Masculinity writ large. And so the men who both produce the news and who consume it find the subject uncomfortable and disturbing and would rather ignore it.
Marcopolo
Btw, here is my understanding of the timeline regarding our security assistance to Ukraine–if I am wrong about any of this please correct me.
1) It was Congressionally approved in 2018 for inclusion in the 2019 budget
2) The Pentagon first announced they were planning to disburse it on Feb. 23
3) This did not happen
4) Three months later in late May, the Pentagon once again announced the imminent disbursement of the funds
5) This did not happen
6) July 10 is the date that Col. Vindman notes he learned of the actual hold on the funds but he was given no specific reason for the hold
7) Despite increasing queries from both Congress (R’s & D’s) and the diplomatic staff in Ukraine the funds were not actually released until Sept 11, after the Trump administration learns of the existence of the WB complaint & the story starts breaking in the press
I suspect the Trump administration had planned all along to release the funds sooner (and that Poroshenko was on board with the Biden/Crowdstrike stuff) but suspect the change in government in Ukraine set back their plans & they had to reboot with Zelinskyy. Just my 2 cents.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Baud: I knew it!
Patricia Kayden
Yovanovitch is an excellent witness and very sympathetic. The fact that Trump forced her out because she wouldn’t go along with his corrupt scheme should anger every American regardless of political party.
Joey Maloney
I tried to reply and it seems to’ve disappeared. Second try:
@Kay:
Partly what Adam said, but also that the idea that boys/young men can be sexually assaulted threatens not only their masculinity, but Masculinity as an ideology and a discourse. The men who produce the news and the men who consume the news find the idea uncomfortable and disturbing, so they’d rather ignore it. I think that helps to explain the relative lack of coverage.
Gin & Tonic
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: It is two syllables. I wrote a bit about this yesterday, I’m hard-pressed to find a way to write it phonetically in English in a way that will make sense to English-only people.
In Ukrainian it is written Київ, in Russian it is written Киев, but the phoneme for the letter “И” is different in the two languages. “Kiev” is a reasonable accurate transliteration from the Russian, whereas “Kyiv’ is a more accurate transliteration from the Ukrainian. While the two vowels together elide into each other, they should be distinct.The first half, the Ukrainian “И,” is pronounced a lot like the “i” in “if”; the second half is pronounced like “yee.” The Wiki page here contains both IPA and audio renditions.
JWR
@mrmoshpotato: Upvoted. ;)
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: Just put it up.
Renie
That’s perfect! It’s like he is always amped up on some drug. He talks so fast and says such nonsense, you wonder how he ever got into Congress. Than I saw a map of his district the other day; completely gerrymandered.
zhena gogolia
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
They really are saying two syllables. In fact the pronunciation of the name of the city in Russian is also really KEE-ihf, not KEE-yev. I don’t speak Ukrainian, G&T can help here, but in Ukrainian it’s also two syllables. It’s just that the unstressed syllable is usually pronounced so quickly that you almost don’t hear it.
zhena gogolia
I’m glad G&T weighed in, but my reply didn’t appear at all.
ETA: Okay, now it’s appeared. I’m flummoxed.
artem1s
It’s not just about the doctor, it’s also about the shower room antics. The only thing that I can figure is somehow the football program is involved. Generally everything leads back to football at OSU. They have had to cover up scandals related to Earl Bruce’s tenure more than once. It wouldn’t surprise me if the primary offenders involved in the harassment and leering were football players or staff. Some are probably still on staff and/or major donors. There are a lot of players from that era who are now in positions of power in the state and nationally. Jordan is probably getting pressured to protect multiple parties. If he admits he knew, then he’s going to have testify who was involved in the shower room crap. Pleading ignorance to all of it is pretty much his only defense against having to rat on the rest of them.
And yes, wrestlers don’t matter to the homophobic jerks who probably think those students deserved it for not being manly enough to make the football squad.
SFAW
@Cheryl Rofer:
The Traitor-in-Chief lied about what actually happened in the earlier call?
I better get my nitro pills.
I’m comin’, Elizabeth! I think this is the Big One!
mrmoshpotato
@artem1s: You asked?
Deplorable Playing Cards
FelonyGovt
@Patricia Kayden: She should resonate with every professional woman who was thwarted by incompetent and/or corrupt management.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Sometimes you have to refresh the page to see your own most recent post.
mrmoshpotato
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Just call it Chicken. ?
JWR
Hey, fine by me, just so long as it can only be used for good. ;)
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Gin & Tonic: @zhena gogolia: (Got the @ link on the first try!)
OK thanks, that makes a lot of sense. Part of the confusion for me with proper pronunciation is that Е has different pronunciations and I have never been able to discern the rules. (Again I’ll make the disclaimer that I’ve never seriously studied this language). It’s usually transliterated as “e” and I think often pronounced that way, but often I hear it as “ye” and it’s transliterated that way in Нет (nyet).
I was going to add something about the last syllable of names pronounced “ov” as in Gorbachov seems to be spelled with -ев. But I just checked and his name is spelled with -ёв. Which is nevertheless for some reason often transliterated as Gorbachev!
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: Yeahbut, it took decades for the issues with Nassar to be taken seriously. It may take a long time for the OSU scandal to be resolved as well.
Organizations protect their own until it becomes untenable. Unless leadership there is willing to do do the right thing.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Lost my edit button even though I’m pretty sure time had not expired.
What I meant to say in that first paragraph is that I believe I’ve seen all of
Amir Khalid
@Cheryl Rofer:
Trump is just wasting his energy again. Everything he says on Twitter, all of his anger, is not going to halt enough of the avalanche of damning testimony to save him. At some point he is going to perform the bunker meltdown scene from Der Untergang and someone from his inner circle is going to leak it to the media; that will be fun.
Gin & Tonic
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: Also, the vowel-followed-by-V word ending tends to be a harder V sound in Russian, and is closer to a W sound in Ukrainian (generally). The E vs Ё vs Є vs Э I’ll leave to zhena.
Kayla Rudbek
And this was supposed to be a reply to Adam @90.
Adam L Silverman
@Kayla Rudbek: What is?
O. Felix Culpa
@Adam L Silverman: Seriously dude?
patroclus
That’s Guilty, Guilty, Guilty for Roger Stone!
Steeplejack
@Elizabelle:
Did you look at the clip in that tweet? It’s perfectly synched—hilarious!
Adam L Silverman
@O. Felix Culpa: I am serious and don’t call me Shirley!
Shirley was my crazy aunt’s name.
Betty
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I saw a tweet where an expert explained that Kiev is the Russian pronunciation while the Ukrainian is Kyiv with the y having a kind if u sound sort of like queev.
James E Powell
The Ukrainians I knew back in the day pronounced it KEEV.
Ladyraxterinok
Testing
O. Felix Culpa
@Cheryl Rofer: You too? Been there, done that, have the (emotional) scars to show for it. I can’t imagine going through that horror at her level and then facing the venal idiot Republican questioning in public. The little I heard was traumatic enough; can’t imagine how it was for her. She’s a hero for being willing to endure this.
StringOnAStick
@O. Felix Culpa: I too experienced this crap in my prior career, and it is a big part of why I am no longer in that line of work. Sometimes the load is just too heavy to bear