I think I’m a pretty good lawyer and can defend a lot, but I have no idea how I could defend Trump given the testimony today.
— Neal Katyal (@neal_katyal) November 13, 2019
Amb. Taylor gets to the heart of things. #ImpeachmentHearings pic.twitter.com/s3c1IZ35ZF
— Republicans for the Rule of Law (@ForTheRuleOfLaw) November 13, 2019
“If they impeach President Trump for blackmail or extortion or making threats or demands, they have to call President Trump a liar to do it.” – John Ratcliffe, setting the bar a little low.
— Noah Rothman (@NoahCRothman) November 13, 2019
“A scheme to condition official acts or taxpayer funding to obtain a personal political benefit does not become less odious because it is discovered before it is fully consummated.” – Rep. Schiff in his opening statement
— Hayes Brown (@HayesBrown) November 13, 2019
“They had settled into a strategy many defense attorneys adopt when the prosecution has the goods on their client—confuse the issues and distract the audience from the evidence at hand.” https://t.co/m1bGSLhz5Q
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) November 14, 2019
Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor, whose opinion on such matters is not to be taken lightly:
… I’ve tried many federal criminal cases, and Wednesday’s hearing looked a lot like trials in which the prosecution has the defendant on tape admitting to a crime. When defense attorneys can’t mount a defense on the merits, they raise a lot of peripheral issues in the hope of convincing at least one juror that there is reasonable doubt.
So every time you heard the Republican’s designated counsel ask about Hunter Biden’s language skills or one of the Republican members of the Intelligence Committee ask whether the Obama administration sold Javelin missiles to Ukraine, what you were actually hearing was a defense attorney doing his level best to avoid talking about what his client said on tape. It was chaotic and often unfocused, though not always. In fact, there were moments when members actually executed their playbook with some skill.
But they simply can’t overcome the abundant evidence Democrats possess to prove their central point—that President Donald Trump conditioned military aid to Ukraine on a public announcement that his political rival, Joe Biden, was under investigation.
When prosecutors have overwhelming evidence, as the Democrats have here, it can be tempting to pile on as much evidence as possible. But when too many points are made, the jury has difficulty picking out what is important. It’s better to select a few key points and hammer them over and over.That’s what Democrats did effectively at the first hearing. They made the most of a rule that permitted an attorney for each side to conduct 45 minutes of uninterrupted questioning. Experienced trial lawyers are better at asking questions than politicians, and it takes time to develop a strong line of questioning, and Democrats chose well turning to an experienced former federal prosecutor who has handled many high-profile cases involving organized crime…
Many commentators have bashed the performance of Republican attorney Steve Castor, openly predicting that he will be mocked on the upcoming edition of “Saturday Night Live.” Certainly his lack of experience trying cases showed. His opening line of questions, which attempted unsuccessfully to get Taylor and Kent to agree to a confusing conspiracy theory about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, was particularly choppy. But Castor had very little to work with, and unlike an attorney at a trial, Castor wasn’t allowed to just ask a few questions and sit down. It appeared that he was told he had to fill 45 minutes, which is not easy to do when your side has no legitimate defense on the merits. He tried his best to testify through his questioning and confuse the issues—he spent a lot of time trying to get Taylor to acknowledge that Rudy Giuliani’s “irregular” diplomatic channel wasn’t as irregular as it could have been—but he could have sharpened his questions considerably.
Castor did a much better job, however, than prominent Trump allies Reps. Jim Jordan and John Ratcliffe. Both men appeared to be trying too hard to create a “gotcha” moment, with Jordan in particular speaking at light speed, as if he were trying to squeeze in 15 minutes of content into five minutes of questioning. He would be better off trying to make four minutes worth of arguments in five minutes, by speaking slowly and developing one or two key points…
What hamstrings Republicans most is the psychology of Trump himself. He has refused to admit the quid pro quo and instead argue that it is not an impeachable offense, as many prominent Republicans have advocated. Admitting wrongdoing would take a lot of the air out of the impeachment hearings, but Trump appears incapable of doing so.
So Democrats will remain in the enviable position of proving a point on which they have ample evidence, even though Trump has kept them from getting key documents and witnesses. It’s not hard to tell a compelling story when you hold all the cards, but it won’t be a winning hand unless they can move public opinion.
This – FINALLY – is the point. Very, very clear that the White House finally released the aid only when the whistleblower report was coming to light and the Intel committee was already starting its investigation! They relented because they finally got caught. pic.twitter.com/GiFbOMBKSE
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) November 13, 2019
The best that can be said of Castor is that he was pretty sober in his questioning and looks super-sane compared to Devin Nunes. The problem is thatTrump is likely furious Castor was pretty sober in his questioning and looks super-sane compared to Devin Nunes. https://t.co/3nKjaUyFF8
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) November 13, 2019
As you watch Bill Taylor testify, remember that he was retired until Secretary Pompeo personally recruited him to become the top diplomat in Ukraine. Skeptical about what happened to Marie Yovanovitch, he was reluctant to take the job, & testified his wife advised him not to.
— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) November 13, 2019
Rep. Jordan says Congress won’t be able to question the one “who started it all,” referring to the whistleblower.
Rep. Welch: “I’d be glad to have the person who started it all to come in and testify. President Trump is welcome to take a seat right there.” pic.twitter.com/nE8Exwn3CG
— BuzzFeed News (@BuzzFeedNews) November 13, 2019
That strikes me as the big takeaway from today — Democrats were trying to make a clear case to people on the fence; Republicans were playing to the MAGA crowd. https://t.co/ofJc9lBn3c
— Kevin M. Kruse (@KevinMKruse) November 13, 2019
You know who I bet is really enjoying watching this?…
.@HillaryClinton to @maddow: “Ironically, I was on the staff of the 1974 impeachment inquiry and you should follow every thread to see where it leads.”
— Josh Rogin (@joshrogin) October 3, 2019
JaySinWA
Oh boy, an Anne Laurie Twitter anchor test.
HumboldtBlue
The images in the links displayed did not appear until I went to comment.
Win10/Firefox
Mary G
I’m pitching a fit at the media on Twitter:
Me: Ho hum, nothing to see here. You’d call the Magna Carta a long boring grocery list. Plus a gif of Kurt Cobain singing “Here we are now. Entertain us.”
Geoduck
With my copy of Win 10 Firefox, the first thing I see out on the main page is “Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor..” When I click into the full article, I see all the stuff before that. Dunno if this is intentional. I do have my browser larded up with various script-blockers.
Mary G
@Mary G: Took a lot longer to cut and paste that when I used to be able to just click on “embed tweet.”
Mary G
@Mary G: Plus, I’m having to refresh to see my comment sometimes but not always.
Debbie(Aussie)
This is a reply to Mary not sure how it works yet 🙂
when did journalism (truth telling) became a form of entertainment? (I know, don’t pick on me 😀) So very frustrating.
we here in the (burning) land of Aus, are having a riveting argument, whose form you would be very in tune with: you can’t discuss climate change while people are suffering the results of facts (?) caused by climate change. Head meet desk/brick wall🤬😭
eta did press reply button but didn’t work, next time maybe 🙂
David 🎃🧙Booooooo🧙🎃 Koch
⚓
laura
So the village has weighed in and found that on the whole nothing to see, move along?
That’s some crap right there. That’s some crap
NotoriousJRT
Same here.
@Mary G: Same here.
stinger
Commenting just to get my nym in the system. Nice site re-do, BTW. Chipped in a little, as I’m sure this all cost big bucks, as well as a lot of volunteer effort.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Mary G: It’ll take a few days to work some of the kinks out.
AJ
Looking great on Chrome mobile on Android
stinger
Same here.
ETA: This was a reply to Mary G at #6, but the fact it was a reply didn’t display.
Debbie(Aussie)
no longer required edit surfaced
Mary G
I’ve been up since 4:45 am CA time, and eaten no real food for breakfast, so I’m off to eat something, blast some loud angry rock music, try to sleep.
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G: Declaration of Independence? More like Declaration of Whining, right?! *high fives all around*
PJ
@Mary G: Your tweet just shows up as a block quote – there’s no link.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Mary G:
“It’s a Small World”
Mary G
@Debbie(Aussie): I’ve seen some terrible fires there online. As far as our media, it’s crickets. Stay safe.
Debbie(Aussie)
😴 tight!
Debbie(Aussie)
@Debbie(Aussie): weird, I can reply to myself, but not to Mary G??
scav
@David 🎃🧙Booooooo🧙🎃 Koch: News Anchors are increasingly nothing but dead weight. Somehow spouting nothing but fluff, but . . .
Repatriated
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
She said “angry,” not “rage-inducing”…
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Debbie(Aussie): The reply box only seems to work after you hit the button twice. To reply to you, I hit the button, but the link to your comment wasn’t in the text box, hit it again and it is. One of the kinks they’ll have to work out.
scav
Can the site actually be refreshing so rapidly that we beat the processing time to get a comment up?
Aleta
Elizabeth Smith @elizagardens
If you like subpoena coladas, getting caught in Ukraine….
Nullus Nomen: Today we are all Devins Cow @NomenNullus
Still waiting for a mixologist to create the Rudi Colluda.
Steeplejack
Does commenting make tweet images appear?
ETA: Sadly, no. (Win10, Firefox, no ad blocker.)
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Repatriated: Check out her reply to one of Cole’s tweets this afternoon.
Cowboy Diva
I did like this clip of Ratcliffe’s statement about Trump being a liar.
Steeplejack
@Debbie(Aussie):
If you press the Reply button and don’t get an @Person gizmo, close the comment box and press Reply again. That should get you the @Person thing.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
@Steeplejack: Still got a few rough spots, but I’m sure they’ll clean them up in the next week or so.
Repatriated
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
Oh, that makes sense now.
“Eighty dolls singing ‘small girl after all'”
Let’s see if this works…
Hey, it did!
MisterForkbeard
I think this is broadly how things are going to go.
The media wants something exciting. Ordinarily, the fact that the president is massively corrupt and using foreign policy to extort allies into rigging our elections would be really exciting on its own.
But it isn’t, because we already know this about Trump and his supporters actually like that about him – he broke the law to pwn the libs, and they like that. And then they get to pwn the libs by continuing to keep their head up Trump’s ass.
The Dems are in a bind – treating it respectfully and with the gravity it deserves is boring to the media, but flipping out will have the media saying the Democrats aren’t taking it seriously and can’t rely on the evidence.
Keeping the media interested is going to be a fully time job. :)
Mary G
From Brian Stelter’s newsletter:
My Side of Town
Trump is so screwed. There is no doubt that he asked Ukraine to interfere on his personal behalf in the 2020 election. He thinks that he made a perfect ask, apparently because he thinks that is not against the law or the constitution. How deluded can you get in a dementia clouded mind? Butt… just to make sure he has some muscle behind the ask, he doesn’t tell Ukraine that he has this ace up he sleeve where he is withholding military aid, and when they find out, he will remind them of that little favor. Mob type bribery, or extortion, if you will. And both diplomats who testified today, saw it loud and clear. As did I, but apparently no republican is blessed with sight or hearing to see the writing on the wall. Dumbasses.
Mary G
@Mary G: Haven’t figured out how to get out of the blockquote. so the LA Mag story is:
Adam Schiff Is Ready to Rumble
JWR
No Kidding. I watched the entire hearing, and boy, was that a doozy of a hearing!
PS. Hello evvverybody! (Is this thing on?)
TS (the original)
@Mary G: Those wooly diplomats were “defending the old ways”
I assume that means the way of cheating and lying is the new Way”
MisterForkbeard
@JWR: Maybe we should have some Dem representative use their time to embarrass Gym Jordan… or to use their planned comments, but to SHOUT THE WHOLE THING and then mildly say “Our republican colleagues seem to believe yelling is how you prove points, so I thought I’d give it a try.” and then move on.
TS (the original)
@Debbie(Aussie):
Someone mentioned on the last thread – if you press reply & get an empty box, close it and press reply again – works the second time.
Hope you are safe from the fires. We had family members self evacuate (not compulsory) but all is now ok. Scary times.
Death Panel Truck
If you live in southeastern Washington state and are looking forward to a white winter, forget it. I can almost guarantee it’s not going to snow this year, or even next year. How do I know this?
Easy. I just bought a brand new snowblower.
JWR
He became my congressman when he defeated that creepy, sleazy “impeachment manager”, James Rogan. Then I got redistricted to Judy Chu’s district. Fair trade, all in all. ;)
Everything’s working bloggy well for me. Nym and email addy right there where I left it just before the blog went down.Woo hoo, Watergirl!
Mnemosyne
Yep. Because he’s a toxic narcissist. He can never, EVER admit to even the smallest fault or he risks the implosion of his entire self. He is always right, always good, always perfect, or he is a howling void. No in-between state exists.
tomtofa
Looks pretty good, glad my investment finally paid off ;-)
Be nice to see FP contributors in the right column along with the “Featured” block.
As to the hearings, I’m waiting to see how deep they go – will the whole multi-year campaign against Ukraine be developed, or will the Dems stick with the narrow phone call, alternate diplomacy track? Hoping for the former, of course.
JWR
@MisterForkbeard: Hey! Where’s my Upvote button!
TS (the original)
Wondering what it will take for Noah Rothman to call the president* a liar. I have trouble finding anywhere that trump tells the truth.
Mary G
I lived in So. Pasadena then and so voted for him in that one too. It was a brawl all the way.
The LA Mag article I linked above is a great long read. One more quote:
JWR
I take it the edit button doesn’t show up for some people, myslef included. But this is my first interaction with the new site, and I is very patient. ;)
But srsly, I hope everyone who was able to watch the hearings, watched the hearings, ‘cuz that was some great TV! Well, except for the Republican counsel, who I thought looked and acted a lot like Cory Lewandowski.
ETA, there’s the edit button!
JaySinWA
@Death Panel Truck: Thank you for your service.
Calouste
Hopefully Donald Jr. won’t be too upset that his dad thinks that he is a limp elitist, although evidence suggests that he attended an Ivy League school, but wasn’t actually educated there.
Debbie(Aussie)
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
thanks Bill 🙂
Xenos
Just catching up a bit in the early morning. I am suprised the Dems do not have counsel using 80% or more of the time. Still, a big improvement.
Sorry for the banal comment, getting logged in here…
guachi
Not a fan at all of the enormous font and acres of white space.
It’s like a font size for people sitting 10 feet from their monitor. Reading comments on my phone is just endless scrolling.
The website loads fast but the layout is a mess.
Amir Khalid
@Death Panel Truck:
I know how that feels. I bought a backscratcher last month, and right on cue my back stopped itching.
JWR
Mary G: Thanks! Reading the LA Mag piece now.
God, I loved that little episode.
JaySinWA
@Amir Khalid:
A good investment, yes?
Robmassing
Hillary: Ironically, I was on the staff of the 1974 impeachment inquiry
Alanis Morissette: Hold my beer.
Debbie(Aussie)
@TS (the original):
Thanks. All good where we are (Ipswich). If anyone is interested The Guardian has some good articles about former fire chiefs and their inability to get this bastard government to listen to anything that mentions CLIMATE CHANGE! ☹️
Anne Laurie
@guachi: I suspect the ‘acres of white space’ will disappear when the ads go up next week.
As for the ‘enormous fonts’... remember, the commentariat skews old, and we like big readable type.
My laptop has an option, in the top toolbar, to reduce or increase the image/font size (little plus minus icons). Maybe there’s a comparable shortcut on platform your phone is using?
JWR
@guachi: When I first got here, the font on my Win 10 desktop was huge, but I was able to shrink it down to size with Ctrl – minus key. Dunno about phones.
Amir Khalid
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
I don’t know about you, but I kind of miss the sometimes trippy glitches of Balloon Juice site rebuilds past. All we’re getting this time around are trivial errors.
Comrade Nimrod Humperdink
“For what purpose does the gentleman from Ohio seek recognition?”
mrmoshpotato
@Robmassing: 🎶 It’s like being on the impeachment staff
In 1974🎶
Mnemosyne
Your eyes must be much younger than mine, or at least a lot crappier. I LOVE the giant font that means I don’t have to squint to read the page.
ETA: Huh. That was supposed to be a reply to @guachi. I think replies are still a wee bit glitchy.
mrmoshpotato
@JWR: Congress-speak for GTFO.
David 🎃🧙Booooooo🧙🎃 Koch
So Adam Schiff is 59 years old.
I’m shocked. He looks so much younger than that.
Mnemosyne
@David 🎃🧙Booooooo🧙🎃 Koch:
You’re comparing him to Republican politicians, whose bigotry and hatred age them prematurely.
TS (the original)
@Debbie(Aussie):
Mr TS would approve your description of our current government although he puts much of the blame on the PM who talks through the holes in his ears most of the time.
guachi
@Anne Laurie: the large amounts of space are between the lines of comments and between the comments themselves. Are ads going to reduce that space?
There’s so little text on my phone screen at any one time in the comments section that I can read it and continuously scroll, which makes it unpleasant to read. I used to read almost all the comments but I just can’t now.
Too bad as this was my favorite site to read and I enjoyed the comments. But I can’t give it even middling marks. It’s just outright bad.
Larime
@Debbie(Aussie): We have the same thing in the US with guns and mass shootings. We can’t talk about guns while people are mourning, we’re told, but with shootings every week, we’re ALWAYS mourning somewhere.
JWR
@mrmoshpotato: Hell yeah! ;)
And yes, sometimes the Reply to button doesn’t always keep the link to the reply “to”, but closing the comment window, then reopening it, I see the reply to person’s nym then shows up twice. Oh well, no problemo.
Leastwise not yet! (And then I’d like to complain!)
Anne Laurie
@Amir Khalid: Do NOT tempt the Trickster God, I implore you!
(He didn’t mean it, Murphy, good sir!… )
ruemara
@Amir Khalid: Stop that.
Sister Golden Bear
A belated congratulations and thank you to Watergirl and Cole (and Alain for keeping the old site going for so long).
prostratedragon
@guachi:
I find the type size much more comfortable, both on my phone and at my desktop, where I do indeed sit arm’s length away from a rather large monitor. Also, with an unserifed font the extra size and space make it more readable to me.
I did notice that in an earlier post with a video up top, the display box looked suitable for Lawrence of Arabia or something, but that’s not a major especially with the greater loading speed.
a lurker
Just delurking to say that the desktop version looks nice, however I’m definitely on team “way too much whitespace on mobile.”
something fabulous
Just also poking about in I hope an unbothersome older thread…
SFAW
@TS (the original):
That’s ridiculous. I clearly remember him once saying that he was wrong.
No, not really.
Site/comment item: Have to plan out and sequence how a blockquoted reply will be written. Can’t move the cursor out of a blockquote, so need to (A) hit “Reply” (B) Insert a couple of carriage returns (C) Insert the phrase to be blockquoted between the “replied-to” link and the last CR. If I don’t do it that way, my own comment appears inside the blockquote, and can’t move the cursor outside of it.
Win XP, Chrome
SFAW
@Anne Laurie:
DOES THIS MEAN I CAN STOP SHOUTING???
Another Scott
[ This is a reply to SFAW at #79. Sigh. ]
Yeah, there are a lot of little glitchy annoyances like that that I hope can be addressed.
In general, the site seems to work well. It has a lot of promise, but needs some polishing.
Thanks to everyone for their efforts!!
Cheers,
Scott.
CatFacts
Test comment. You’ve redecorated. I… I think I like it!
glory b
Elie Mystal’s response to the NBC comment on Twitter:
Analysis: Nuremberg Trials lay out disturbing details, but lack pizzazz necessary to capture public attention. Unlike the Blitz, which, like, totally persuaded people to get out of bed and pay attention to the nightly news.
— @jonallendc, Nov 20th, 1945, probably.
Wolvesvalley
Testing a comment using visual tab.
Editing.
Wolvesvalley
Testing in text tab. Edit box has buttons.
Wolvesvalley
@ruemara: Replying to ruemara; @nym showed up on first click. When I posted the comment, I landed at the comment I was replying to (74). But after I edited, I landed at comment 79.