Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Let there be snark.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Where tasty lettuce and good mustard aren’t elitist.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn – Nancy Pelosi

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Good luck with your asparagus.

We can agree to disagree, but i’m right.

Not all heroes wear capes.

False Scribes! False Scribes!

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

They are all Michael Cohen now.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Peak wingnut was a lie.

The house always wins.

Tick tock motherfuckers! Tick fucking tock!

All your base are belong to Tunch.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Shelter in place is one thing. Shelter in pants is quite another.

Fuck if i know. i just get yelled at when i try it.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Open Thread: Today’s Impeachment Inquiry (Partial) Update

Open Thread: Today’s Impeachment Inquiry (Partial) Update

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Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor, whose opinion on such matters is not to be taken lightly:

… I’ve tried many federal criminal cases, and Wednesday’s hearing looked a lot like trials in which the prosecution has the defendant on tape admitting to a crime. When defense attorneys can’t mount a defense on the merits, they raise a lot of peripheral issues in the hope of convincing at least one juror that there is reasonable doubt.

So every time you heard the Republican’s designated counsel ask about Hunter Biden’s language skills or one of the Republican members of the Intelligence Committee ask whether the Obama administration sold Javelin missiles to Ukraine, what you were actually hearing was a defense attorney doing his level best to avoid talking about what his client said on tape. It was chaotic and often unfocused, though not always. In fact, there were moments when members actually executed their playbook with some skill.

But they simply can’t overcome the abundant evidence Democrats possess to prove their central point—that President Donald Trump conditioned military aid to Ukraine on a public announcement that his political rival, Joe Biden, was under investigation.

When prosecutors have overwhelming evidence, as the Democrats have here, it can be tempting to pile on as much evidence as possible. But when too many points are made, the jury has difficulty picking out what is important. It’s better to select a few key points and hammer them over and over.

That’s what Democrats did effectively at the first hearing. They made the most of a rule that permitted an attorney for each side to conduct 45 minutes of uninterrupted questioning. Experienced trial lawyers are better at asking questions than politicians, and it takes time to develop a strong line of questioning, and Democrats chose well turning to an experienced former federal prosecutor who has handled many high-profile cases involving organized crime…

Many commentators have bashed the performance of Republican attorney Steve Castor, openly predicting that he will be mocked on the upcoming edition of “Saturday Night Live.” Certainly his lack of experience trying cases showed. His opening line of questions, which attempted unsuccessfully to get Taylor and Kent to agree to a confusing conspiracy theory about Ukrainian interference in the 2016 election, was particularly choppy. But Castor had very little to work with, and unlike an attorney at a trial, Castor wasn’t allowed to just ask a few questions and sit down. It appeared that he was told he had to fill 45 minutes, which is not easy to do when your side has no legitimate defense on the merits. He tried his best to testify through his questioning and confuse the issues—he spent a lot of time trying to get Taylor to acknowledge that Rudy Giuliani’s “irregular” diplomatic channel wasn’t as irregular as it could have been—but he could have sharpened his questions considerably.

Castor did a much better job, however, than prominent Trump allies Reps. Jim Jordan and John Ratcliffe. Both men appeared to be trying too hard to create a “gotcha” moment, with Jordan in particular speaking at light speed, as if he were trying to squeeze in 15 minutes of content into five minutes of questioning. He would be better off trying to make four minutes worth of arguments in five minutes, by speaking slowly and developing one or two key points…

What hamstrings Republicans most is the psychology of Trump himself. He has refused to admit the quid pro quo and instead argue that it is not an impeachable offense, as many prominent Republicans have advocated. Admitting wrongdoing would take a lot of the air out of the impeachment hearings, but Trump appears incapable of doing so.

So Democrats will remain in the enviable position of proving a point on which they have ample evidence, even though Trump has kept them from getting key documents and witnesses. It’s not hard to tell a compelling story when you hold all the cards, but it won’t be a winning hand unless they can move public opinion.

You know who I bet is really enjoying watching this?…

Reader Interactions

86Comments

  3. 3.

    Mary G

    I’m pitching a fit at the media on Twitter:

    WaPo: “Wooly” diplomats vs. deep state darkness

    NBC: Not enough pizzazz to interest public

    NYT: Same venom and drama. But that’s about all.

    Reuters: Consequential but dull

    Me: Ho hum, nothing to see here. You’d call the Magna Carta a long boring grocery list. Plus a gif of Kurt Cobain singing “Here we are now. Entertain us.”

  4. 4.

    Geoduck

    With my copy of Win 10 Firefox, the first thing I see out on the main page is “Renato Mariotti, former federal prosecutor..” When I click into the full article, I see all the stuff before that. Dunno if this is intentional. I do have my browser larded up with various script-blockers.

  7. 7.

    Debbie(Aussie)

    This is a reply to Mary not sure how it works yet ?

    when did journalism (truth telling) became a form of entertainment? (I know, don’t pick on me ?) So very frustrating.

    we here in the (burning) land of Aus, are having a riveting argument, whose form you would be very in tune with: you can’t discuss climate change while people are suffering the results of facts (?) caused by climate change. Head meet desk/brick wall??

    eta did press reply button but didn’t work, next time maybe ?

  8. 8.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    ⚓
     

  9. 9.

    laura

    So the village has weighed in and found that on the whole nothing to see, move along?

    That’s some crap right there. That’s some crap

  11. 11.

    stinger

    Commenting just to get my nym in the system. Nice site re-do, BTW. Chipped in a little, as I’m sure this all cost big bucks, as well as a lot of volunteer effort.

  16. 16.

    Mary G

    I’ve been up since 4:45 am CA time, and eaten no real food for breakfast, so I’m off to eat something, blast some loud angry rock music, try to sleep.

     

     

  27. 27.

    Aleta

    Elizabeth Smith @elizagardens
    If you like subpoena coladas, getting caught in Ukraine….

    Nullus Nomen: Today we are all Devins Cow @NomenNullus
    Still waiting for a mixologist to create the Rudi Colluda.

  34. 34.

    MisterForkbeard

    I think this is broadly how things are going to go.

    The media wants something exciting. Ordinarily, the fact that the president is massively corrupt and using foreign policy to extort allies into rigging our elections would be really exciting on its own.

    But it isn’t, because we already know this about Trump and his supporters actually like that about him – he broke the law to pwn the libs, and they like that. And then they get to pwn the libs by continuing to keep their head up Trump’s ass.

    The Dems are in a bind – treating it respectfully and with the gravity it deserves is boring to the media, but flipping out will have the media saying the Democrats aren’t taking it seriously and can’t rely on the evidence.

    Keeping the media interested is going to be a fully time job. :)

  35. 35.

    Mary G

    From Brian Stelter’s newsletter:

    “Bring. It. On.”
    Maer Roshan has impeccable timing… He came out with this new cover of Los Angeles mag on Wednesday… calling Adam Schiff, “the mild-mannered, Vegan congressman from Burbank,” the GOP’s “worst nightmare:”

     

    “It’s hard stay on top of the news as a monthly,” Roshan told me, “so we pushed our deadlines to terrifying extremes and kept constantly updating the story. Adam Schiff may be a national figure now, but he’s our local congressman, so we were determined to do this right.”

  36. 36.

    My Side of Town

    Trump is so screwed. There is no doubt that he asked Ukraine to interfere on his personal behalf in the 2020 election. He thinks that he made a perfect ask, apparently because he thinks that is not against the law or the constitution. How deluded can you get in a dementia clouded mind? Butt… just to make sure he has some muscle behind the ask, he doesn’t tell Ukraine that he has this ace up he sleeve where he is withholding military aid, and when they find out, he will remind them of that little favor. Mob type bribery, or extortion, if you will. And both diplomats who testified today, saw it loud and clear. As did I, but apparently no republican is blessed with sight or hearing to see the writing on the wall. Dumbasses.

  37. 37.

    Mary G

    @Mary G: Haven’t figured out how to get out of the blockquote. so the LA Mag story is:
    Adam Schiff Is Ready to Rumble
     

    He is world-famous now. The chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence can now see himself caricatured on Saturday Night Live. In Trump’s Twitterverse, he’s the limp, Ivy League-educated elitist scheming to bring down the President of the Real America. To his supporters, he is Elliot Ness chasing Al Capone, Joseph Welch facing down Joseph McCarthy. Which of these images wins out may ultimately determine nothing less than the fate of the free world.

    Or, as Schiff put it while sitting in his office, his expression indicating a half-hearted attempt at gallows humor: “Just another day.”

    He may not want to play the leading man, but Schiff’s confrontation of Trump is the stuff of a Frank Capra film. The by-the-book former prosecutor, who seems every bit the embodiment of the process he champions, is poised to take down a president whose primary mission has been to blow up the system for his own gain, regardless of how many laws (or reputations) were trampled in the process.

     

  38. 38.

    JWR

    @MisterForkbeard: Keeping the media interested is going to be a fully time job. :)

    No Kidding. I watched the entire hearing, and boy, was that a doozy of a hearing!

     

    PS. Hello evvverybody! (Is this thing on?)

     

  39. 39.

    TS (the original)

    @Mary G:  Those wooly diplomats were  “defending the old ways”

     

    I assume that means the way of cheating and lying is the new Way”

     

  40. 40.

    MisterForkbeard

    @JWR: Maybe we should have some Dem representative use their time to embarrass Gym Jordan… or to use their planned comments, but to SHOUT THE WHOLE THING and then mildly say “Our republican colleagues seem to believe yelling is how you prove points, so I thought I’d give it a try.” and then move on.

     

  41. 41.

    TS (the original)

    @Debbie(Aussie):

     

    Someone mentioned on the last thread – if you press reply & get an empty box, close it and press reply again – works the second time.

    Hope you are safe from the fires. We had family members self evacuate (not compulsory) but all is now ok. Scary times.

     

     

  42. 42.

    Death Panel Truck

    If you live in southeastern Washington state and are looking forward to a white winter, forget it. I can almost guarantee it’s not going to snow this year, or even next year. How do I know this?

    Easy. I just bought a brand new snowblower.

  43. 43.

    JWR

    @Mary G: Adam Schiff may be a national figure now, but he’s our local congressman

    He became my congressman when he defeated that creepy, sleazy “impeachment manager”, James Rogan. Then I got redistricted to Judy Chu’s district. Fair trade, all in all. ;)

     

    Everything’s working bloggy well for me. Nym and email addy right there where I left it just before the blog went down.Woo hoo, Watergirl!

     

  44. 44.

    Mnemosyne

    Admitting wrongdoing would take a lot of the air out of the impeachment hearings, but Trump appears incapable of doing so.

    Yep. Because he’s a toxic narcissist. He can never, EVER admit to even the smallest fault or he risks the implosion of his entire self. He is always right, always good, always perfect, or he is a howling void. No in-between state exists.

  45. 45.

    tomtofa

    Looks pretty good, glad my investment finally paid off ;-)

    Be nice to see FP contributors in the right column along with the “Featured” block.

    As to the hearings, I’m waiting to see how deep they go – will the whole multi-year campaign against Ukraine be developed, or will the Dems stick with the narrow phone call, alternate diplomacy track? Hoping for the former, of course.

  47. 47.

    TS (the original)

    Wondering what it will take for Noah Rothman to call the president* a liar.  I have trouble finding anywhere that trump tells the truth.

     

  48. 48.

    Mary G

    I lived in So. Pasadena then and so voted for him in that one too. It was a brawl all the way.

     

    The LA Mag article I linked above is a great long read.  One more quote:

     

    As Schiff drove me to the studio, he looked almost cool in his reflective shades. (It’s a fleeting moment. He drives an Audi whose license plate frame bears a line from The Big Lebowski: “I don’t roll on Shabbos.”)

  49. 49.

    JWR

    I take it the edit button doesn’t show up for some people, myslef included. But this is my first interaction with the new site, and I is very patient. ;)

    But srsly, I hope everyone who was able to watch the hearings, watched the hearings, ‘cuz that was some great TV! Well, except for the Republican counsel, who I thought looked and acted a lot like Cory Lewandowski.

    ETA, there’s the edit button!

  51. 51.

    Calouste

    Hopefully Donald Jr. won’t be too upset that his dad thinks that he is a limp elitist, although evidence suggests that he attended an Ivy League school, but wasn’t actually educated there.

  53. 53.

    Xenos

    Just catching up a bit in the early morning. I am suprised the Dems do not have counsel using 80% or more of the time. Still, a big improvement.

    Sorry for the banal comment, getting logged in here…

  54. 54.

    guachi

    Not a fan at all of the enormous font and acres of white space.

    It’s like a font size for people sitting 10 feet from their monitor. Reading comments on my phone is just endless scrolling.

    The website loads fast but the layout is a mess.

  56. 56.

    JWR

    Mary G: Thanks! Reading the LA Mag piece now.

    “Mr. Gaetz, please absent yourself!”

    God, I loved that little episode.

  59. 59.

    Debbie(Aussie)

    @TS (the original):

    Thanks. All good where we are (Ipswich). If anyone is interested The Guardian has some good articles about former fire chiefs and their inability to get this bastard government to listen to anything that mentions CLIMATE CHANGE! ☹️

     

  60. 60.

    Anne Laurie

    Not a fan at all of the enormous font and acres of white space.

    It’s like a font size for people sitting 10 feet from their monitor. Reading comments on my phone is just endless scrolling.

    @guachi: I suspect the ‘acres of white space’ will disappear when the ads go up next week.

    As for the ‘enormous fonts’... remember, the commentariat skews old, and we like big readable type.

    My laptop has an option, in the top toolbar, to reduce or increase the image/font size (little plus minus icons).  Maybe there’s a comparable shortcut on platform your phone is using?

     

  61. 61.

    JWR

    @guachi: When I first got here, the font on my Win 10 desktop was huge, but I was able to shrink it down to size with Ctrl – minus key. Dunno about phones.

     

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    @?BillinGlendaleCA:

    I don’t know about you, but I kind of miss the sometimes trippy glitches of Balloon Juice site rebuilds past. All we’re getting this time around are trivial errors.

     

  65. 65.

    Mnemosyne

    Your eyes must be much younger than mine, or at least a lot crappier. I LOVE the giant font that means I don’t have to squint to read the page.

    ETA: Huh. That was supposed to be a reply to @guachi. I think replies are still a wee bit glitchy.

  67. 67.

    David ??Booooooo?? Koch

    So Adam Schiff is 59 years old.

    I’m shocked. He looks so much younger than that.

  69. 69.

    TS (the original)

    @Debbie(Aussie):

     

    Mr TS would approve your description of our current government although he puts much of the blame on the PM who talks through the holes in his ears most of the time.

     

     

     

  70. 70.

    guachi

    @Anne Laurie: the large amounts of space are between the lines of comments and between the comments themselves. Are ads going to reduce that space?

     

    There’s so little text on my phone screen at any one time in the comments section that I can read it and continuously scroll, which makes it unpleasant to read. I used to read almost all the comments but I just can’t now.

     

    Too bad as this was my favorite site to read and I enjoyed the comments. But I can’t give it even middling marks. It’s just outright bad.

     

  71. 71.

    Larime

    @Debbie(Aussie): We have the same thing in the US with guns and mass shootings. We can’t talk about guns while people are mourning, we’re told, but with shootings every week, we’re ALWAYS mourning somewhere.

     

  72. 72.

    JWR

    @mrmoshpotato: Hell yeah! ;)

     

    And yes, sometimes the Reply to button doesn’t always keep the link to the reply “to”, but closing the comment window, then reopening it, I see the reply to person’s nym then shows up twice. Oh well, no problemo.

     

    Leastwise not yet! (And then I’d like to complain!)

     

  73. 73.

    Anne Laurie

    @Amir Khalid: Do NOT tempt the Trickster God, I implore you!

    I don’t know about you, but I kind of miss the sometimes trippy glitches of Balloon Juice site rebuilds past. All we’re getting this time around are trivial errors.

     

    (He didn’t mean it, Murphy, good sir!… )

     

  76. 76.

    prostratedragon

    @guachi:

    I find the type size much more comfortable, both on my phone and at my desktop, where I do indeed sit arm’s length away from a rather large monitor. Also, with an unserifed font the extra size and space make it more readable to me.

    I did notice that in an earlier post with a video up top, the display box looked suitable for Lawrence of Arabia or something, but that’s not a major especially with the greater loading speed.

  77. 77.

    a lurker

    Just delurking to say that the desktop version looks nice, however I’m definitely on team “way too much whitespace on mobile.”

  79. 79.

    SFAW

    @TS (the original):

    I have trouble finding anywhere that trump tells the truth.

    That’s ridiculous. I clearly remember him once saying that he was wrong.

     

    No, not really.

     

    Site/comment item: Have to plan out and sequence how a blockquoted reply will be written.  Can’t move the cursor out of a blockquote, so need to (A) hit “Reply” (B) Insert a couple of carriage returns (C) Insert the phrase to be blockquoted between the “replied-to” link and the last CR. If I don’t do it that way, my own comment appears inside the blockquote, and can’t move the cursor outside of it.

    Win XP, Chrome

     

     

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    @Anne Laurie:

    As for the ‘enormous fonts’... remember, the commentariat skews old, and we like big readable type.

    DOES THIS MEAN I CAN STOP SHOUTING???

     

     

  81. 81.

    Another Scott

    [ This is a reply to SFAW at #79.  Sigh. ]

    Yeah, there are a lot of little glitchy annoyances like that that I hope can be addressed.

    1. the “did my comment/edit take, or do I need to wait and refresh?” issues.
    2. the “when does manual HTML take and when does it not?” (related to #1) issues.
    3. the “anchors to parents in replies sometimes not appearing” issues.
    4. the “anchors not pointing to the right place” issues.
    5. the “not returning to the previous point in the comment thread after posting a comment” issues.
    6. the “too much white space between replies” issue.
    7. the “why does a refresh of the top of the page cause the B-J graphic to be reloaded and shift the page down an inch – can’t that be cached somehow?” issue.
    8. the “Visual and Text editing tabs seem to have weirdness about button bars appearing or not for no obvious reason”

    In general, the site seems to work well.  It has a lot of promise, but needs some polishing.

    Thanks to everyone for their efforts!!

    Cheers,

    Scott.

  83. 83.

    glory b

    Elie Mystal’s response to the NBC comment on Twitter:

     

    Analysis: Nuremberg Trials lay out disturbing details, but lack pizzazz necessary to capture public attention. Unlike the Blitz, which, like, totally persuaded people to get out of bed and pay attention to the nightly news.
    — @jonallendc, Nov 20th, 1945, probably.

  86. 86.

    Wolvesvalley

    @ruemara: Replying to ruemara; @nym showed up on first click. When I posted the comment, I landed at the comment I was replying to (74). But after I edited, I landed at comment 79.

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