Incredibly loud protests outside the Trump speech along Fifth Avenue, with whistles, chants of "Lock him up!"
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) November 11, 2019
President Trump in New York, pays tribute to city’s role in nation’s history “of daring and defiance.” pic.twitter.com/oKlzzLEgtR
— Alex Leary (@learyreports) November 11, 2019
From the pool report re: Trump's Veterans Day speech in NYC: "In the windows of one of the glass office towers looming above the park, large letters are taped in the windows spelling out, one one floor, 'IMPEACH,’ and, several floors above, 'CONVICT.'"
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) November 11, 2019
As @POTUS began to speak," a din arose from the west side of the park on 5th Avenue. As Trump’s voice boomed from loudspeakers, chants of 'Lock him up' could be heard coming from the crowd," reports print pooler @EliStokols. pic.twitter.com/JlCoN3j1PA
— Steve Herman (@W7VOA) November 11, 2019
Overlooking POTUS speech was this sign. A few floors up were letters spelling “convict.” pic.twitter.com/CumF48jRG4
— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) November 11, 2019
trollhattan
Wait, how is Mags twittering this. Has she been released from stenography services?
stinger
Please please pleeeeeeeeze tell me he could see the signs from where he was!
Doug R
Is that glass cage normal for presidential appearances?
Thomas Levenson
On this day, we are all New Yorkers.
Baud
Using Vets as human shields didn’t work?
RedDirtGirl
Tee Hee.
Mary G
Good for NYC.
I must say that Another Scott was right and I was wrong last night. Mayor Pete did not diss Obama, but the “old normal.” The LA Times reporter has retracted it, saying it was due to a transcription error.
On a related note, this thread by a freelance transcriber about Rev, a popular transcription service, dropping their pay to approximately $4.50 an hour from $6 an hour without any notice is enraging:
sdhays
@stinger: He reportedly can’t see much without glasses and is way too vain to wear glasses where someone can see him, so it’s doubtful.
SFAW
@stinger:
Even if he could, what would it matter? He couldn’t read them himself.
Just Chuck
@sdhays: Would explain the constant squinting, I guess.
Emerald
Yay NYC! Well, they know him best. (As does the FTFNYT, so why didn’t they tell the world)
Chief Oshkosh
@sdhays: If it make the news, he WILL see it. Whatever is on the talking box with pictures is all he really every sees.
SFAW
@Just Chuck:
There’s some joke about doing something “only until I need glasses.” Certainly would be appropriate.
sdhays
@Chief Oshkosh: Oh, yes. He’s going to know, whether he actually saw it in real time or not.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I personally find my glasses hide the bags under my eyes. Who does he think he’s fooling about his age?
Anya
@Just Chuck: what explains Melania’s squinting though?
Redshift
@Mary G: it’s really annoying how effective the propaganda from these companies has been, portraying them as positive new ideas based on “sharing” (Uber, Airbnb) or “work flexibility” (the “gig economy”).
As far as I’m aware, every goddamn one of them had a business model based on evading laws and regulations, including exploiting workers by evading rules to prevent that.
p.a.
Any signs saying “Thank you Florida”? (Sorry BCracker)
SiubhanDuinne
I heard the first minute or so of his speech — long enough to hear him bragging that he was the very first President EVER to address the Veterans’ Day Parade. Because, as we know, everything is about him.
TS (the original)
@Doug R: Fairly sure there were glass shields for President Obama on election night 2008 – good photographers seem able to show/not show as they wish
hells littlest angel
Give him credit for showing up to make the speech in spite of a flare-up of his bone spurs.
germy
@Mary G:
I found it interesting to compare Mayor Pete’s response to being misquoted (gracious and forgiving)… vs. if someone misquotes #45 (angry, accusatory tweets).
Dan B
@Mary G: Thanks for noticing that Pete did not blame Obama, who he reveres, but the “old normal”. Many of us would agree that the elites in the D party have not adapted to or acknowled the new normal. Pete us probably wounded for good since the “Obama’s fault” meme has spread around the world before the truth could get on its pants. And that he seems out of touch with the biggest concerns of black Americans.
Mary G
@Redshift: Exactly. Getting into an Uber is like hitchhiking. I’ve read so many tweets by women reporting creepy stalking by phone calls and texts, to being driven off course toward deserted areas, and sexual assault. One of the Republicans’ biggest deceptions is demonizing regulations.
trollhattan
@Mary G:
So now you have to transcribe whilst Ubering?
Jeffro
Required reading (and viewing) for all Dems, to counter the GOP BS tornado:
James Downie tears up ‘Senator’ Kennedy’s three kinds o’ crap and false equivalencies: A Typical GOP Senator’s Shell Game
J-Rubs is astonished to find that The Democrats May Surprise Us On Impeachment
And finally, you have to watch this epic takedown – THIS is how you deal with Beltway Both-Siderism from the national snooze media (video is within Sargent’s post)
Way to go Rep Jim Himes!!
WE
ARE
HAVING
NONE OF IT, trumpkins!
Mary G
@germy: His response was wonderful. He’s still not high on my list, but since he has a decent chance, I was glad he didn’t diss Obama.
karen marie
@Thomas Levenson: It’s been a long time since I lived in my birth place – White Plains, New York – but I am always proud to say that’s where I’m from, no more so than a day like today.
Dan B
@Dan B: Does anyone know how a reporter could turn “old normal” into “Obama”?
Asking for a reporter.
Baud
@Dan B:
See @trollhattan.
SFAW
@Anya:
From trying to find his teenie-weenie.
Just kidding. The last time Donnie Dickless tried to “get busy” with Melania, she called up her handler (Vladi), and he told his puppet “Nyet.”
Jharp
I just read that Trump’s greaseball son’s girlfriend is the ex wife of Gavin Newsom.
Holy shit.
How can that possibly be?
PsiFighter37
That glass building that had ‘Impeach’ and ‘Convict’ in the windows, ironically enough, isn’t an office building – it’s one of the rich condos built for the 1%. Rupert Murdoch used to own the top 3 floors before he got divorced from Wendi Deng.
Mary G
@Dan B: They use transcription services that pay badly. See the thread in my comment.
karen marie
@Baud: That’s nonsense. The one has nothing to do with the other. I saw the reporter’s tweet correcting the record – he misheard and in the rush of getting to print people got bad information.
John Revolta
@Dan B: Kinda like when Hillary said “Republicans” were grooming Tulsi to run third-party, and the FTFNYT ran it as “Russians”. Funny how these misquotes are always of Democrats.
JGabriel
Maggie Haberman @ maggieNYT via Anne Laurie @ Top:
Me (JGabriel.NY) Here @ Balloon Juice, about 9.5 Hours Ago:
Pretty much the easiest prediction ever.
Bex
@Anya: Requesting the cat eye look from the plastic surgeon.
Humdog
@Jharp: She likes greasy haired dudes?
geg6
My absolute favorite city after my own. Always has been and always will be, in part because of things like this.
Searcher
@Jharp: She was a SF prosecutor and worked in the DA’s office before she was a TV personality; this overlapped with Newsom’s time in SF politics.
John Revolta
@Anya:
Hatred?
Seriously though, it’s a model’s trick. It’s supposed to make you look more interesting and confident.
JGabriel
@germy:
Minor correction. Hope it’s okay?
Dan B
@Jeffro: Great comment on countering both siderism and bs “logic”. I believe it would be to Democrat’s advantage to use words like extortion, bribery, and threat to national security. There are millions of people who are barely paying attention but will understand the words extortion, bribery, and security. It would also be worthwhile to link these to the idea that you would be arrested if you did these, and the law would not be kind. We need to paint a picture that average Americans could not get away with what Trump did.
And hooray for those New Yorkers!
FelonyGovt
Trump gets uglier and uglier, doesn’t he.
Good for New York!
debbie
@PsiFighter37:
It’s moments like that one that keep me missing NYC.
RedDirtGirl
@Anya: Bad plastic surgery?
Jay
Don’tcha love the MSM.
Emerald
@Mary G: Mayor Pete does not have a decent chance. Mayor Pete has no chance. Nobody gets the Democratic nomination with 0% support from African Americans. Nobody wins the general election that way either.
Added to the fact that he is in no way remotely qualified to be President at this point. He can be in the future, though. Run for Governor or Senator and win! Doing that in Indiana would absolutely put him in a position for another presidential campaign in the future. He might even be able to do it in the next cycle, because he’s a national name now.
Dan B
@John Revolta: But, but, but! Both could be true of Rep. Gabbard. That’s probably what the reporter thought Hillary was saying because it made the most sense. Amirite?
Jay
karen marie
@Emerald: Thank you.
Mary G
The weather for most of the country is going to be hell freezing over this week. Hundreds of record low temperatures predicted. Everybody stay safe.
It may be as low as 62 degrees here on the elitist left coast.
Jay
@Dan B:
Arn’t Republicans and Russians interchangeable?
(((CassandraLeo)))
@Mary G: How is a pay rate that low even legal? The minimum wage is much higher than that – $7.25 per hour, last I checked. I suspect transcription employees aren’t tipped, so that exception wouldn’t apply. As a QA for another company in the same industry, I’m genuinely stumped.
Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jay: No, I am sure there are Russians who are decent people.
Sebastian
He must have known this would happen, right? Why did he show up? So he can fundraise off of it and play the victim card to his base? I am a but puzzled
Sloane Peterson's knee therapist
@Jay:
trumpus already did that in one of his historic tweets: “Rupublicans”
Dan B
@John Revolta: I believe the cameras directly under her eyes that link straight to FSB / Kremlin take up space.
Or it could be the interaction of collagen injections and botox. (Photos of Melania from years ago show very ordinary eyes.)
JGabriel
@Jay:
To misquote something apocryphally attributed to Mark Twain: I don’t know about interchangeable, but they sure do rhyme.
Avalune
@(((CassandraLeo))): There are loopholes. Wait staff, disabled workers, contracted/freelance…are all often subject to loopholes.
TS (the original)
@trollhattan: Nah – look at her followup tweet –
Still looking after the boss.
Mai naem mobile
@Dan B: I am willing to give the reporter a pass. He said there was a lot of loud background noise. There’s nothing for him to gain by misreporting something like this. He looks dumb and somebody will have the accurate clip taped from much closer to Buttigieg.
Going back to Trumpov and the glasses – I think they were talking about him needing reading classes not regular glasses so he may have seen the signs if he looked up. What the heck was wrong with Melania’s nose though? It looked frostbit. Odd looking. The NYPD used garbage trucks to surround Trumpov’s event to protect him. Something so wholly appropriate.
Splitting Image
@Jay:
I’m not a hedge fund manager, but if there is more gold and platinum on that asteroid than on the entire earth, wouldn’t mining it have a small effect on the value of gold and platinum, which they are using to calculate the asteroid’s value?
catclub
@John Revolta:
Did Hillary even say it was Tulsi? I thought Hillary only referred to a woman in the field being groomed for a third party run… and Tulsi acted like she had been bitten.
Similarly, saying that one is the favorite of the Russians, without naming.
Mary G
@(((CassandraLeo))): Here is a response to my tweet saying this is fucked up:
So they probably have a fleet of attorneys who make a lot more money finding loopholes in every state.
debbie
@Dan B:
Squinty comes from being pulled back and tightened.
Mary G
@Splitting Image: Cheryl tweeted that it would cost as much to retrieve it.
Dan B
@Mary G: Seattle, 180 miles north of Minneapolis, is 57 and partly sunny -sweater weather. Our low for the week is 46 on Wednesday. Looks like the Jet Stream may be doing the giant wobble dance due to major warming in the Arctic (5 degrees Celsius versus 1.2 degrees in the tropics). As the Jet Stream slows it gets twisty like the Mississippi south of St. Louis. I remember 70 degrees in northern Arkansas in mid November. The water mains were only 6 inches below the pavement. When it got into the teens the water shut off. And half an inch of snow shut down the schools. Imagine Texas at 15 degrees! Will swimming pools be heaving?
JPL
@PsiFighter37: Ouch! That’s gotta hurt.
Spanky
@Splitting Image: Extraction costs would be … astronomical.
Mary G
@Dan B: No such thing as climate change!
Chyron HR
@stinger:
Yes, but unfortunately he couldn’t read it.
VeniceRiley
I saw video and Buttigieg definitely said, not just “old normal” about our politics being broken (he doesn’t see one side to blame, apparently.) … but that he did not want to go back to Obama or Clinton. What he was saying was a 10 dollar version of “OK BOOMER”
Dan B
@Mai naem mobile: The audio is available of Pete’s interview with the LA Times. There is static but it is not too bad. There’s something odd about the reporter’s story.
Still it’s very disturbing that Pete and his crew have been hearing since his launch that AAs are not happy. They should have doubled their efforts to listen to more than just Sharpton and a couple others. Do the staff believe that focusing on AA outreach would xripple the campaign in Iowa and New Hampshire?
If they get the lead in Iowa, get third in NH, and 5th in SC. It will sink the campaign. The story will be death spiral
Dan B
@debbie: Now I have an image of duct tape and clothespins. Also of the movie Brazil.
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G:
And paying way than the cost of gas. They’re unregulated taxis with a surge pricing racket to boot!
Fair Economist
@Jay: What’s weird about the supposed multi-quintillion asterood is that we actually *don’t* know it’s got big reserves of anything particularly valuable. All we know is that it’s mostly nickel and iron. Somebody has whipped up a frenzy about a pretty wild speculation – I suspect one of the companies supposedly formed to “prospect” it, which are probably just Theranos style scams, currently gunning their hype engines.
Even if there are usable precious metal deposits there it’s dubious that it would be possible to exploit it economically. Processing in space is expensive and so is shipping from the asteroid belt.
Wapiti
@Mary G: … I can’t even. Why would a California-based company that hired only out of state people even exist? By California law, one has to pay California state income tax on California source income. So every single employee now gets to file in another state.
ThresherK
Huh. Voice of America’s Steve Herman has the fourth tweet on this post. He has his amateur radio callsign, W7VOA, as his Twitter name.
Like I am here, I would never do such a thing, as I value my privacy too much. Then again, he is a public figure already, so this isn’t probably an issue for him. And his announcer’s voice probably sounds great on the ham bands.
Nice vanity callsign. For those of you not aware, a ham can get a callsign (if it’s not already assigned) for a small fee.
Dan B
@Mary G: Utqlagkvic, formerly Barrow, is 28 degrees. No Global Warming there, oh…. Nevermind!
And I wanna see those snowballs in Stockton.
Percysowner
Deval Patrick considering a last-minute presidential bid: report For those, like me whose first thought was “who the hell is Deval Patric?”, he’s the former governor of Massachusetts . Once that gig was over he went on to be the managing partner of, wait for it…Bain Capital! Me thinks the private equity people are starting to get really nervous about Liz Warren. Maybe not so much that she can win the nomination, but more that she will pull the entire party over to the “tax the rich” side. So they are throwing anyone they think will stick into the mix.
“
mrmoshpotato
@mrmoshpotato: *way more
Baud
@catclub:
I totally thought Hillary was talking about Klobuchar until Tulsi spoke up.
ThresherK
@Spanky: Yep. As I always say, there’s gold in seawater, but it’ll cost $20M an ounce to extract it.
(Of course, if certain trends keep up, the most valuable thing to extract from seawater might be fresh water, but that’s another headache.)
John Revolta
@catclub: Yeah, I think that’s right. Makes it even worse!
“Somebody did the iggy.”
“No I didn’t!1!11!!”
ThresherK
@Baud: Tulsi should have been “*thought a fool, rather than open her mouth and confirm it”.
(*Quote source; Jesus, per Marsha Blackburn.)
TS (the original)
@Jay: And a reply
Mary G
@Wapiti: People are tweeting Gavin Newsom about it. That law is full of exceptions. Freelance writers were not excepted and were furious.
Jay
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Mary G: Good to see you’re not buying into that Chinese Hoax.
VeniceRiley
@TS (the original): Giant space rock crashes …. the metals commodities market.
Dan B
@Mary G: Here is the audio of the Pete q&a. There is no way that the reporter could have had trouble understanding what Pete said.
youtu.be/51Wx-Y-rzPg
Also there is a transcription by Lis Smith that got it right. She seems pissed at the reporter.
But it’s water over the dam at this point. What I’m wondering is this part of a pattern of using quotes out of context or with slight alterations to hurt every Dem candidate.
kindness
Trump is a moron. He thinks he can go public and not be booed. Moron isn’t polite. Sorry. Trump is nuts. How’s that?
Jeffro
@Percysowner: “Who…WHO WILL SAVE US FROM PAYING WHAT WE USED TO PAY WITH NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER???!??”
lumpkin
Have the civility police weighed in yet? Pretty sure they’ll be outraged.
Jeffro
Oh hey, Mitch Daniels has an op-ed coming up in tomorrow’s Post about the need for presidential debates to include 3rd party candidates. Gee, I wonder why that is?
(two suspected reasons, actually)
Duane
Trumpov ruins everything. Veteran’s Day is no exception.
Spanky
ISTM that the movie Alien started out on a prospecting ship that responded to a distress call. Do we really want life to imitate art?
Mary G
Kay
@VeniceRiley:
Which is interesting because his actual policy proposals are Obama and Clinton. It’s maybe the flip side of presenting more extreme proposals in a way that makes people think they’re more moderate. He’s presenting moderate ideas in a way that makes people think they’re bold.
I was complaining earlier in the primary that the centrists problem was that all the energy was on the Left, so they shouldn’t complain. Either make centrism exciting or stop whining.
Maybe Pete has managed to present centrist ideas as new and exciting. If so, the centrist wing of the party should thank him. He’s the only one who has managed it.
SiubhanDuinne
Once again, it’s that time of year when I get pissed off at local weather folk for saying “Artic.”
SectionH
@Mary G: Meh, it’s supposed to be 55º tonight in SAN. Brrr!! Well, not really for us, because we’re LEX and there’s going to be snow. Before Thanksgiving? Ack! Hoping it’s just the predicted 1″ or so and will mostly disappear by the time I might need to drive tomorrow. It’s been a long time (15 years?) since I had to drive in snow. I’m trepid enough just dealing with rain and a car I don’t know that well yet.
Kay
@VeniceRiley:
It’s not like there’s an endless number of Democratic policy proposals. There’s X number of policy people on the D side and they have only so many ideas. It would be really difficult not to replicate some of the policy from two, two term Democratic Presidents.
It’s like Republicans with health care reform. They had seven “fixes” and when they rejected all those that was it- a magical fix wasn’t going to fall from the sky. Once they burned thru “sell insurance across state lines” and “tort reform” they ran dry.
Democrats have more than 7 but they don’t have an infinite number. There’s basically ACA and the Medicare for all variants.
Dmbeaster
@Mary G: I am familiar with employment law in California. The gig economy is playing the classic game to reclassify employees as independent contractors, for which there are no rules. The test as to whether someone was an employee or independent contractor used to be complicated, and they profited from the ambiguity. California judges got fed up, and rewrote the rules to make it very difficult to keep playing this game. Losing this argument can be massively expensive to the employer. So they will rip off the workers in red states.
dexwood
@kindness:
Fucking asshole works for me. Trump is a fucking asshole.
Barbara
@Kay: Ed Kilgore referred to selling insurance across state lines and the other related not so bright ideas as the pet rocks of the Republican policy on health care reform. I have used that image in work related discussions.
SiubhanDuinne
@ThresherK:
Laughing out loud. Literally.
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne: because “Antarctic” doesn’t get enough love?
Steve in the ATL
@SiubhanDuinne: don’t push me.
Soprano2
@Mary G: No shit. It was 72 degrees here yesterday and sunny. Right now it’s 21 degrees and falling, with various kinds of frozen stuff coming out of the sky. This sucks, I’m not ready for winter yet. This is the anniversary of the biggest temp drop in Ozarks history, 80 to the teens in 1911. I am not a fan of this historical recreation!
smintheus
ABC, NCB, CBS, and PBS announced that they would pre-empt regular programming to air the House impeachment proceedings live. I remember just a few months ago being assured confidently on these threads that, no, the networks would not in fact bother to broadcast impeachment hearings as they had back in Nixon’s day, and that any talk about the political utility of hammering Trump with daily hearings was so ridiculously naive that nothing else one said on the topic of politics should ever be taken seriously.
I wonder how much more of the received wisdom about the supposed futility of impeaching Trump is also off base.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
That’s “Anartic” to you, sonny boy.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steve in the ATL:
No, literally literally. Yes I was.
Barbara
@smintheus: Did you come by to collect a cookie?
Baud
@smintheus:
Your conclusion does not follow from your premises.
SiubhanDuinne
@smintheus:
I am going to miss at least a couple of hours on Wednesday. Got my cast off last Friday (yay!) and have my first PT session at 11:00 am Wednesday. Bad planning on my part. I blame the pain.
smintheus
@Jeffro: Kennedy is the Senator from Mayonaise. He will decide what the law demands once Mayonaise has made up its mind.
Martin
@Mary G: I think the transcription service situation is a bit more complicated. We started buying bulk transcription for audio and video – mostly lectures and seminars. 1000-2000 hours per day. We couldn’t fit traditional services in our budget so we went to an automated + manual contract. About 80% is handled by the automated service and the ones it rejects (my understanding is it’s transcribed through two different algorithms and diffed to get an accuracy score) gets done manually. I haven’t see this year’s contract but last years was at $0.35/minute. That’s estimated to work out to $1.50/min for manual transcription, but with only 20% the volume.
It makes it *really* hard for a manual transcription service like Rev to compete against even a hybrid service like that. Yes, CAs law doesn’t help the situation, but the downward pressure on prices isn’t due to the gig economy, it’s due to automation. The disparity in opportunities for CA and non-CA workers is due to the law.
zhena gogolia
@smintheus:
That’s good news.
Martin
I spent the weekend finishing up a whistleblower complaint. I’m now deciding whether to send it in or not. I’ve done this before, but previously it was more focused and limited in effect and I was pretty happy with the process. This one is much bigger and messier. I’m not as confident it’ll go as well.
smintheus
@Baud: Your statement is not clear.
@Barbara: Were you one of those nay-sayers?
smintheus
@SiubhanDuinne: They won’t have it on while you PT?
Jeffro
@Percysowner: Everyone’s smelling blood in the water…the assumption being, get the Dem nomination, win the WH
Baud
@smintheus:
You’re assuming that because THIS impeachment hearing is interesting, ANY impeachment hearing would be just as interesting.
Gin & Tonic
Quick wave “hello” to Subaru Diane, JPL, Steve, Raven and the others as I spend a few quality hours sitting in ATL on my way home. Haven’t been here in a while. It still sucks.
John Revolta
@SiubhanDuinne: “Artic”
This drives me nuts. It’s not so bad when just folks do it, but so-called meteorologists…………….!
(I know down your way they don’t get to say it much; but still.)
Omnes Omnibus
@smintheus: By nay-sayers, I assume you mean the people who did not believe that Pelosi was fucking the whole thing up and that the decision to move to a formal process should have begun at sometime that was at least one prior to the given date whatever date that was?
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@SiubhanDuinne: (@Steve in the ATL) As was I. Had I been laughing figuratively, it wouldn’t have startled the dog.
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: I think that’s where I fall on it as well.
This particular impeachment is interesting. It has massive and clear proof that Trump broke the law in an attempt to affect the election. There are quite a few witnesses to that effect and Trump basically confirmed most of it.
If we had impeached him back in July or June it would have been around a different set of facts. Hell, even with all the above the media is still trying hard to find excuses or treat Republican objections as reasonable. I really doubt this would have worked well on emoluments, Mueller’s report, misusing his charity, or any other of the 16 things Trump has done that DO merit impeachment.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I’m leaving the country tomorrow for three weeks. I can’t believe I’m going to miss the hearings. It’s better for my blood pressure, I guess.
I remember watching the Ervin committee hearings about Nixon. I was glued to the TV.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
We can’t know that. Does the dog startle easily? Do you gesticulate wildly when you laugh figuratively? So many unknowables.
Ladyraxterinok
@Mary G: @Jay:
Where’s the national reporting on this? Has anyone here seen any?
smintheus
@Baud: I’m not assuming that. I argued that Trump’s crimes were such that impeachment hearings if held would definitely be broadcast to the public live; others denied flatly that any hearings would be broadcast. It seemed obvious at the time that these denials were absurdly off base, as events have proved them to be. That’s what happens when you start with your policy preferences and allow those to dictate your facts and how you interpret your evidence.
Gin & Tonic
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Figuratively, I assume.
smintheus
@Omnes Omnibus: No. The people who insisted that the public wouldn’t learn much from any hearings because they would never be broadcast.
Baud
@smintheus:
Do you have a link to these people?
trollhattan
@Mary G:
Been 80 here every day for at least a week. Only reason all of NorCal isn’t on fire is the lack of wind. We need storms.
Sportsball note: Seattle visits Santa Clara in a tussle of 7-2 vs. 8-0. The last time Santa Clara was relevant was some half-decade ago. The announcers will say stuff about how nice ‘n warm it is there.
the Conster
Can anyone explain to me like I’m five years old why Pete is given a pass? Here’s him calling out Obama and Clinton, but not Reagan or Bush. He’s making a category error about what the old normal is, that he’s criticizing. He seems to be unable to identify that the white majority has been voting to immiserate themselves for 50 years in exchange for white supremacy. Hillary Clinton gave the bravest speech a politician has ever given about the dangers of the alt-right and white nationalism, and here’s Pete tap dancing to the wrong tune.
HARD PASS.
smintheus
Is anybody actively involved in a group that tries to find homes for injured strays? We had a lovely stray cat show up a few days ago, just about the most loving cat I’ve ever encountered. Took it to the local adoption shelter, and they said they loved it so much they’d move heaven and earth to find it a home. Problem is, they suspect that a weak spot near one ankle might be bone cancer, so the kitty might have a leg amputated. We’re concerned that it might be impossible to find a home for a three legged cat, even an adorable one … though we don’t have a firm diagnosis yet.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Gin & Tonic: Well, yes!
trollhattan
I’m really seeing a lot of upside with these clever people running Uber.
smintheus
@Baud: To comments on months old threads? No, but there were multiple discussions over an extended period in which talk of hearings being broadcast was derided by multiple commenters as out of touch with modern politics.
the Conster
@smintheus:
The arguments about press coverage were made before impeachment started due to the idiot in chief self-impeaching and bragging about extorting Ukraine, when the WH was stonewalling and the IMPEACHNOW screamers were wanking away about Pelosi not doing her job. The televised hearings would have consisted of empty chairs where witnesses would be. Now that there are actually live witnesses willing to testify and support their private testimony, there is something to show. Remember how they covered Mueller, who wasn’t entertaining enough for them, so we’ll see what the panels of pundits have to say whether they’ve been entertained.
Ladyraxterinok
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Local bus driver played hearings on radio. Small town, nearly empty bus . When Butterfield? started telling about tapes he almost stopped the bus.
Later that summer I was in a group touring the Tower of London. Guide pointed out ‘for our American guests’ the Watergate and Traitorgate. Was long ago, don’t remember if they were the same
.
japa21
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Have a great cruise. We will miss you.
joel hanes
@SectionH:
It’s been a long time (15 years?) since I had to drive in snow.
It’s pretty simple, really. Just remember that you can’t slow down, you can’t speed up, and you can’t turn — except gently, with small gradual adjustments to course and speed.
So go gently.
Warm up the car before you need to depart (visibility). Start early to give yourself plenty of time. Drive more slowly than you think really necessary. Double or triple your usual following distance, more if you’re one of those people who follow closely. Headlights on.
japa21
@Baud: I don’t remember anyone saying they wouldn’t be broadcast. Some people, myself included, said they were unlikely to get as much attention as the Nixon hearings because there are so many other options available to people now compared to then. I anticipate that continuing to be the case.
I don’t remember anybody saying having the hearing would be futile. As usual, this commenter is making shit up to make things align with his/her preconceived bias.
smintheus
@the Conster: The idiot in chief has been making statements and doing illegal things so blatantly that it could just as easily be said that he was “self-impeaching” since his first days in office. His record of obstruction of justice could hardly be clearer and more damning. The Nixon impeachment hearings focused heavily on obstruction of justice, and the broadcasts attracted a massive audience.
schrodingers_cat
@the Conster: His talking points are Republican. If he was not gay he would have been an R.
mad citizen
Great news they are airing the impeachment hearings, regardless of many people will watch. Also, phuck Mitch Daniels with a rolled up copy of his Gulf War cost estimate. We won’t forget you. That you were able to become a governor and a president of a large university only proves the part of our nation heading towards Idiocracy. Also, your rule as president of Purdue is not to comment on political issues–WTF are you doing writing a wapo op-ed on our political process?
nytimes, dec. 31 2002: [ ”This is nothing more than prudent contingency planning,” Mr. Daniels said from his home in Indianapolis, where he was reviewing the fiscal 2004 budget at his kitchen table. ”At this point there is no war.”
Mr. Daniels’s projections place the cost of an Iraq war in line with that of the 1991 Persian Gulf war, which cost more than $60 billion, or about $80 billion in current dollars. But the United States paid for only a small part of that conflict, with Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Japan bearing the brunt of the costs.]
smintheus
@japa21: I think it is you making things up. “I don’t remember” is Reagan territory.
Baud
@smintheus:
It’s hard to believe that anyone said no impeachment hearings on any topic whatsoever will ever be broadcast. Without a link, I can’t judge your protestations.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@japa21: @Ladyraxterinok: I’m sure I’ll see many wonderful things, but I am a little worried about any political talk on this cruise. It’ll be full of well-off, older white people. Chances are it will be a nest of Republicans.
Baud
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
A three week cruise sounds lovely. You’re not on that National Review cruise, are you?
the Conster
@smintheus:
You don’t seem to understand the media environment we live in now. Look at the impact Mueller’s testimony made – ZERO. There was so much squid ink squirted around the charges of collusion with Russia that didn’t make sense to the average person who isn’t engaged 24/7, and Pelosi, unlike you, understands what makes an impact and what doesn’t. What made the difference was the whistleblower complaint coupled with the idiot’s release of the memo of conversation, and she took her shot. She’s a sniper. That’s what made the difference. She knows more about the political and media landscape than you do, and now that witnesses are willing to come forward publicly, the media landscape has shifted. If you still think that media is on our side, I have a bridge to sell.
the Conster
@schrodingers_cat:
He’s a Log Cabin Republican. All he is is blah blah blah.
joel hanes
@Soprano2:
the biggest temp drop in Ozarks history, 80 to the teens in 1911.
No reliable weather forecasting back then, or indeed until after WWII.
The famous Armistice Day Blizzard in 1940 killed many hunters in the upper midwest, particularly duck hunters. My paternal grandfather was almost one of them … he was duck hunting from a boat, near the shore of an Iowa lake. When the weather changed, he started to pick up his decoys, but the sleet and rising wind were a hindrance, and the waves splashed his clothing. By the time he got back to his car, the sleet was turning to snow, he was wet through, and the ice in the car’s door locks blocked his key. He spent a desperately cold fifteen minutes alternately putting the key in his mouth to warm, then in the lock, then back in his mouth — which finally worked.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
And yet, you do. :)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: Dear god. Can you imagine?
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
I judge the person, not the argument.
Aleta
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Put a multi-pack of pest spray in your suitcase.
japa21
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Then you may be able to do a little judicious winnowing, if you get my drift. Sometimes the railings are a little low.
Leto
@SiubhanDuinne: Just wanted to say, HURRAY! For getting your cast off. I’ll also be at PT (regularly scheduled time) so I’ll ya e to play catch-up here and elsewhere. But more importantly, yay for getting your cast off! I eagerly await word of how your first
Physical TorturePT session goes ?Dorothy A. Winsor
@Aleta: LOL. “Oh excuse me! You startled me. I didn’t mean to spray your WAGA spewing mouth.”
japa: Oh dear. He just fell!
smintheus
@the Conster: Aha, so you know which things I *don’t* understand, as well as that those (speculative) things are also things that Pelosi definitely does understand. I’m simply the politically naive type, right?
@Baud: People made many absurd claims, mostly in defense of Pelosi’s machinations to block impeachment hearings. They not only said they were certain that hearings would not be broadcast and that they would inevitably prove to be useless, some even went as far as to predict that any hearings if held would be counter-productive and were bound to destroy Democrats’ hopes in 2020.
Aleta
@Dorothy A. Winsor: “Oh dear, I do beg your pardon, but I heard a poisonous buzzing.”
the Conster
@smintheus:
Gee, who to trust? *smintheus* on a blog, or Nancy Pelosi?
Baud
@smintheus:
It’s impossible to continue his conversation without seeing the original source information on which your criticisms are based. I’m cutting out.
Uncle Cosmo
@Fair Economist:
Today, yes; the day after tomorrow (figuratively), maybe not so much. With enough energy available you can flash ore into plasma & separate it into elements (or for that matter, isotopes) using mass-spectrometric techniques. You can construct a “mass-driver” to launch significant amounts of processed metal into a transfer orbit for the Earth-Moon system, to be rounded up by vehicles there & gently de-orbited (if not used directly in orbital or lunar fabrication facilities).
And keep in mind that energy is waiting out there, even in the asteroid belt. Solar intensity out at 3 AU is roughly 150 watts/sq m; put up a space-based solar array in orbit a few tens of km away & at 30% efficiency a 1 sq km array gets you 45 Mw of usable power. Set up processing facilities on the moon (where solar intensity is 1370 W/m2) to produce silicon-based solar cells & fire them out to Psyche with mass-drivers powered by supercapacitors charged up by the sun.
Yeah, it’s rocket science, but so what? Gold & platinum are extremely valuable materials even (especially) once their “preciousness” goes the way of the dodo. Platinum is used as a catalyst & in fuel cells; gold is a highly efficient conductor & finds its way into all sorts of microelectronics. I’d bet there are dozens of processes that would become econmically viable with industrial quantities of either available at non-“precious” prices. It could be a real game-changer.
(Memo to Elon Musk: Work out a way to apply your Starship fleet to mining an asteroid like Psyche – which should be a helluva lot easier than round trips to Mars – & it could pay for your colony on the Red Planet.)
Ruviana
@Gin & Tonic: It does make you Gin &Tonic in the ATL tho…
Mary G
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Think of it this way: it’s a boat, so they can’t get away from your liberal talking points. Harangue them!!! A moratorium on politics will probably be enacted in short order.
On a more serious note, have a wonderful time.
the Conster
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I was on a river cruise on the Columbia River, and yes. It was wall to wall really old really white really Republicans.
PRO TIP: If you get on a bus to see the sights on land, get on last or it will take forever to get off.
Mary G
Evergreen rooting for injuries!
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic: ¡Hola! I miss that place—haven’t been there since last night.
And all the formerly cocky people on my MSY-ATL flight who were decked out in Saints gear looked sheepish deplaning in ATL….
Dan B
@schrodingers_cat: How do you conclude that Pete’s talking points are Republican. His policy positions range from progressive: revive enforcement of CFPB, to moderate: Medicare for all who want it and provisions to house people in need and increase access to credit to people who have been excluded. His website has clear policy, or at least clear enough for a campaign. He doesn’t make detailed policy for things that will be decided by the legislature.
His polivies serm closer to Harris and more detailed.
It feels to me that you just don’t like him. That’s fine. I don’t believe he can win in an America that has layers of blatant and hidden homophobia. But I dislike attacks on Dem candidates that would be a huge improvement over any Republican, let alone Trump or Pence.
It also stings to hear consistent criticism of the first openly gay presidential candidate. There us a slow and steady push by the GOP to take away the freedoms of LGBT people. Pete shows that a number of people do not view LGBT people as horrible sinners. His candidacy throws the Christanists off balance. He gives us a little space to breathe.
SiubhanDuinne
@Leto:
Thanks, Leto! We’ll each halve the pain by sharing the pain! I do feel a bit liberated.
I said something to that effect on FB, to which my brother replied “it’s like being reborn, isn’t it?” I immediately responded “Yes, I’m a born-again Wristian.”
He didn’t get it. He’s an excellent and earnest person, but we share very little in the humor department.
J R in WV
@John Revolta:
IIRC Hillary said Republicans were grooming a candidate to run third-party, no name pronounced, and Tulsi immediately jumped up and volunteered that she was the person being groomed. Hillary may have even said grooming a woman to run third party, and of course there are still several women in the race, many doing better than Tulsi~!!~
But I’m pretty dammed sure Hillary never named Tulsi in that remark !!!
Jay
Oh, to be a mediocre white man of a certain economic status,…….
SiubhanDuinne
@Gin & Tonic:
In the immortal call letters of one of our oldest, most venerable broadcast stations — WSB — Welcome South, Brother!
SiubhanDuinne
@John Revolta:
I’m glad I’m not the only one!
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic: which terminal? We can give restaurant recommendations. Or fashion—hit up Sean John if you’re in B!
SiubhanDuinne
@smintheus:
Oh! I don’t know! Maybe….
Dan B
@the Conster: Please refer to Pete’s website and policy positions. He is no Log Cabin Republican. He doesn’t believe that it is tactically wise to attack the super rich. Two others who feel the same are Kamala Harris, my favorite, and Barack Obama, my president. They are not perfect. But I believe it us a fool’s errand to directly antagonize the oligarchy. I believe it will be an anchor on Warren and don’t get me started about Saint Wilmer.
Pete wants to restore the enforcement power of the CFPB.
I don’t like his attacks on Warren or the other candidates. He should spend more time on outreach (listening) to the black community. And he’s missing the opportunity to take a strong stand against the GOP’S false promises, racism, and power grab.
Mary G
@Dan B: One thing I love about Pete is his husband, Chasten. Plus their dogs. This is a thread Pete shared last December about their latest adoptee, Buddy:
Picking a fat, one-eyed dog who may have behavioral problems instead of a cute puppy is my kind of people. Based on ongoing tweets, he’s been as grateful and happy to have a home as most rescues are.
the Conster
Propane Jane on Pete:
RAVEN
@Gin & Tonic: Jump on Marta!
zhena gogolia
@Dan B:
I’m very open to Buttigieg. None of the supposedly horrible things he’s said seem all that horrible to me. Warren makes me nervous and gives me a McGovern feeling.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus:
You need this.
the Conster
@Dan B:
I don’t care what candidates like Bernie or Pete say, or have on their website. He’s just all blah blah blah. His record in South Bend, a small town where he wields a lot of power, is mediocre at best. He lost statewide in Indiana by a huge margin, and that was before he came out, so he can stop acting like he knows how to win by appealing to people who have overwhelmingly rejected him. I began being open to him, but now am deeply unimpressed with him and I won’t change my mind.
Amir Khalid
@Jay:
I haz a confused. How is it “severance” pay if the guy wasn’t fired?
Ken
@Percysowner:
They really should consider that she may be pulling people away from the “eat the rich” side.
Dan B
@Uncle Cosmo: Maybe Elon could make enough money to pay for CO2 capture and storage. His Mars colony is idiotic, suitable only for a misguided ego. Any colonist would be nearly impossible to revisit earth after half a dozen years. And the times when Earth and Mars are close enough for transit are few.
And climate chaos will make support for a colony on Mars impossible in 20 years or less. Worldwide civilization in food shortages, massive flight from lethal heat in the tropics and subtropics, and massive relocation from coastal regions and flooding… It doesn’t take complex math to figure out the scenarios at our current rocket launch sites.
Jay
@Amir Khalid:
S’plains that in the article.
“CBS Corp. acting Chief Executive Officer Joe Ianniello is in line for a hefty haul when Viacom Inc. completes its proposed merger with the broadcast network.
While he won’t get to lead the combined entity, he’ll collect $100 million severance and remain chief of CBS with a new contract entitling him to tens of millions of dollars more.”
Ken
@trollhattan:
Ah, so Prince Bonesaw just made a mistake in the people he chose to go interview Khashoggi, and accidentally got a few torture-murderers. So really it’s more like Uber’s failure to perform background checks, resulting in their hiring a few kidnappers and rapists.
sdhays
@J R in WV: I was just trying to think of this, but my parent-of-infant brain was blocking! WTF is up with these incendiary “mis-quotes”? It doesn’t sound like it was malicious this time, but what does Adam like to say? Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is enemy fire.
Jay
Jay
@Ken:
They also turned off all the factory anti collision sensors and systems in a test car, except for the Uber one for recognizing pedestrians in crosswalks.
So of course, their test car killed a pedestrian outside of a crosswalk.
sdhays
@Ken: If this guy thinks the torture-murder of Khashoggi was a mistake just like Uber has made, I’ll take his word for it. Clearly, Uber intentionally hired kidnappers and rapists.
Ken
@Mary G:
I assume this is because each wants the inevitable book deal, and not out of any personal loyalty to Trump or belief that he is innocent.
Amir Khalid
@Jay:
Severance is what they pay you when you get fired. This guy wasn’t fired. The quote doesn’t ” ‘splain” why that obscenely large payment is called a severance.
sdhays
@Ken: They think that the result of the Senate trial is a foregone conclusion and they’ll go down in history as the guy who saved Dump’s Presidency. They’re probably right about it being a foregone conclusion, but there are actually quite a lot of ways to lose while Dump remains unconvicted by the Senate. They’ve done a pretty piss-poor job of managing impeachment for Liddle’ Hands so far.
sdhays
@Amir Khalid: He’s being “fired” from his old job and rehired in a new job. He’ll need that severance to bridge the gap.
J R in WV
@ThresherK:
Steve was with The AP here, and worked with my wife. A great guy, an excellent reporter, taught me more about shusi, loved Asia, spent a long time reporting from there.
A total professional! So glad to see he has a good job given the state of mass media today!
J R in WV
@Dan B:
Whut?!?! How could you suspect… but that would be a conspiracy… Wait. I’ll come back in … let me think a minute here!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid:
It can also be what a payment is called when leave a company due to downsizing. Actually, chances are when you get fired you don’t get a severance.
Dan B
@the Conster: I agree that Pete is naive about winning over the people who hate him. I hope he is not the Dem nominee because he’d likely lose and by a big margin. He has persuaded a surprising number of moderate and republican lite voters that he’d be a “nicer” Democrat. This has bern a morale boost for a lot of LGBT’s but how much influence that can have would likely be cruelly demonstrated in the general election. Too many voters want a strong/macho leader to “keep them safe”.
I don’t get the “mediocre record” since it seems like he revived some parts of South Bend, admittedly in a gentrification lite manner. But there are too many examples of progressive mayors and governors succeeding in improving cities but driving out poor people and minorities. Pete’s not the only one at fault. It seems like the white middle and upper class don’t care or are, at best, oblivious. Perhaps they harbor deep seated prejudice. /s.
I’m impressed with an 80% reelection count. And failure to win in Indiana… The largest KKK in the country was in Indiana and last I was there nothing had changed in the far right political bent.
Amir Khalid
@sdhays:
In my universe that’s a reassignment, not a firing. I still haz a confused.
Dan B
@sdhays: I’ve been wondering if this subtle tweaking of quotes and taking quotes out of context: Hillary, Pete, who else? is the newly refined Russian approach. It takes so much time to correct the record that many people are so angered and/or frightened that their minds cannot be swayed by the truth.
This possibility has been creeping me out for quite some time. Is it Occam’s Razor time or will we ever know for certain?
Ken
@Amir Khalid: It might be one of those corporate things, where the new entity isn’t either of the old ones, so his job at the old company ceased to exist and he was hired by the new one. The severance payment will still look bad when – as I assume will happen – they start firing-for-real a lot of “redundant” personnel after the merger.
J R in WV
@the Conster:
Having toured a little bit, I disagree, get on first, sit down right up front with the best view out the front of the bus!!
gwangung
@Dan B:
Talk about missing the forest for the trees.
Gentrification in POC communities is a BIG hot button. And leaving the black community behind in South Bend (and they’ve been fairly vocal about it) is NOT a good look for a Democratic candidate.
Dan B
@J R in WV: By the time you have figured this out our Great Eminence Kim Jong Tre and his wife Empress Anastasia Buttina will have sealed their alliance with Prime Minister of Asia Xi Zinping II.
Happy is this day!
Ruckus
@kindness:
¿por que no los dos?
Frankensteinbeck
@Baud:
I personally said that the media will quickly get tired of the hearings and they won’t get constant coverage, that the odds of conviction are all but nonexistent and it’s thus a mere statement, that they won’t stop Trump from doing anything, and that if they end too quickly all anyone will remember is that the Democrats failed. All together, the arguments that the Democrats simply had to leap on impeachment immediately were wrong, and Pelosi and House Democrats in general might as well pick their time. So far, I see no sign that I am wrong about any of it. The vast majority of the damage that has been done to Trump was his self-inflicted wound of releasing a printed confession of asking another country to interfere in an American election on his behalf.
Dan B
@gwangung: My only concern about focusing on Gentrification as a disqualifier for progressive Dems is that there seem to be few to zero progressive Dems that have not improved their communities without gentrification.
There are remedies but ultra-liberal Washingto state cannot even get a milquetoast version of affirmative action for government jobs passed, let alone mortgage loan support, rent control / subsidies, etc.
Seattle is battling gentrification particularly in our neighborhood and our government ( not the mayor so much, has us called the Soviet of Seattle.
So I don’t fault Pete for failing to curb gentrification when few, if any, have been successful. If you’ve got successful examples I’d love to hear. We Dems need some good stories of success.
Jay
@Amir Khalid:
Severance Pay is generally not provided to people who are fired.
People who are laid off from a Company, generally get seveverance, often instead of “notice”.
CBS as a Corporation is going away, and so is his job as CEO of CBS.
CBS as a division of the merged Viacom/CBS is being “formed” and he will head that Division in the new Corporation.
So technically, the company he was CEO of has ceased to exist, thus “severance”.
The reality is the money is a “payoff” for not opposing the merger.
Dan B
@gwangung: I do agree that gentrification is bad for any candidate – terrible because the GOP will cynically use this as a disqualifier as seems to be happening to “Kamala Kop”. The only candidates who avoid these traps are the ones that were governors or who have legislative credentials, thus less executive experience. None of the governors or congresscritters have had to address gentrification’s many roots or the roots of crime because these are not directly in their purview.
Jay
@Dan B:
New Westminster. They changed the rules regarding Houses, Suites and Coach Houses on single family lots a couple of years ago. So, Victorian houses arn’t being torn down, they are being “flatted” with a coach house in the back. 4 families on one lot. 3 families in a former McMansion. It’s early days yet but it seems to be working. Old Apartment buildings, ( non-historic) can be torn down and replaced with a condo tower, as long as there are the same number of rental apartments with the same square footage, for the same rental price, included in the development.
Jay
Jay
Jay
Jay
//DRPK News is a satire account.
Jay
Dan B
@gwangung: Just to be clear I know that gentrification is a huge issue. It causes so much pain by driving people out of their neighborhoods and destroying communities. We’ve lived in a 90% minority neighborhood for a decade. We bought our house for $275 K. A similar house without a view of the Cascades just came on the market for $750 K. Our neighborhood was stable for decades with reasonably priced homes. $750 K is unlikely to be affordable for almost any minority family. We dread having more entitled folks who demand things the locals cannot afford or care lityle for like weed free lawns, manicured gardens, and perfect houses. And we wonder if our neighbors will have to move because of unaffordable taxes. We wonder if we will be forced to sell for the same reason.
I was booted from college in 1970 for being gay. I worked as a cook and landscape laborer because they didn’t care if you had a black.mark on your record. I started a landscape business and earned a whopping $60 K one year putting in 70 hour weeks. It got me back into the middle class but it made me a homeowner with no pension, just some savings. I got an early lesson in the hurdles that can be put in your way by prejudice.
And we have upper middle class relatives who have no clue or would not care about prejudice and gentrification
Some for heartlessness and others because they have zero frame of reference.
I wonder if Corey Booker or Julian Castro were contenders if their records (or Joaquin’s record, on genrltrification would be questioned.
Dan B
@Jay: Good to know. Vancouver isn’t perfect but it’s been successful at some significant and excellent urban planning and development.
Seattle has been clueless about the good things that Vancouver and Portland hae achieved and the sacred single family neighborhoods have fought mother-in-law /accessory dwelling units. No surprise that we have thousands of luxury condos and the third largest number of homeless in the country. Also the state imposed tax limits prevent significant financing of affordable housing. The mayor keeps cleaning up homeless encampments, causing disruption and suffering. We’re addressing the symptoms and not providing solutions to address the causes. Now that we have prevented Amazon from taking over the council we may be able to force through some more vigorous improvements.
The best thing would be to give a number of eastern Washington counties, and their tight right wing legislators, to Idaho. Then we’d have a chance to fix the tax code.
Just Chuck
@Spanky: Do you want xenomorphs? Because that’s how you get xenomorphs.