It’s a fine campaign ad! Upbeat, yet soothing! No sharp edges, nothing divisive.
Buttigieg to me on last week's Radio Atlantic podcast:
“I would be the most progressive American president in my lifetime."
(Note: that lifetime only covers Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump.) https://t.co/E6erIPrw5w pic.twitter.com/Rblo2pDihx— Edward-Isaac Dovere (@IsaacDovere) November 6, 2019
Per Dave Wiegel, at the Washington Post:
… In this weekend‘s New York Times-Siena poll, which was conducted before the “LJ,” Buttigieg clocked in at 18 percent overall in Iowa, in a statistical tie with Warren, Sanders and Biden. The older and more educated voters were, the more they liked Buttigieg. Among voters over 65, Buttigieg polled at 23 percent, close behind Biden, while the leading millennial candidate for president was at just 12 percent with voters his age or younger. Twenty percent of voters with college degrees backed Buttigieg, compared with 9 percent of voters whose education ended with high school. Just 15 percent of voters under 30 wanted a president to “bring politics in Washington back to normal.” Among voters over 65, support for a “back to normal” candidate was at 70 percent…
He’s a young white man who sounds exactly like Bill Clinton circa 1992, but without the needy, horndog, hillbilly edge — what’s not to love?
Biden is fading (literally, one might say); they’re desperate for a New! Improved! CENTRIST! to be excited about. But Klobuchar is “mean”, and Castro is “inexperienced”, and Booker… hey, we’ve elected one African-American president already, isn’t that enough disruption for a single generation? (Which goes double for Kamala Harris, who also lacks a Y chromosome Centrism credentials.)
“Mr. Buttigieg uniquely plays to the one thing the Democratic electorate has always enjoyed: falling in love with a new political face promising national unity and compromise.” https://t.co/L1iU68FRuv
— Josh Kraushaar (@HotlineJosh) November 5, 2019
Pete Buttigieg is clearly becoming the darling of the Morning Joe don't-run-with-scissors crowd. https://t.co/9cGmutu5x9
— Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) November 4, 2019
He started the presidential race as the vanguard of generational change, campaigning on big liberal ideas. Now Pete Buttigieg is pushing himself as the reasonable alternative to Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren. In Iowa, it's working, via @hollybdc @amybwang https://t.co/02Wi55NACH
— Cathleen Decker (@cathleendecker) November 4, 2019
In his defense, Buttigieg might be young enough that he really doesn’t know any better:
… “The way we think this shapes up is, if you want the most ideological, far-out candidate possible, you’ve got your answer. You want the most Washington candidate possible, you’ve got your answer,” Buttigieg said Saturday from his campaign bus in Iowa. “Everybody else, I think, can come our way. I think that’s almost everybody.”
That positioning represents a significant shift from Buttigieg’s posture when he entered the race. Buttigieg made early headlines by portraying himself as the vanguard of generational change, a 37-year-old seeking to become the first openly gay president and talking up big liberal ideas, like abolishing the electoral college and restructuring the Supreme Court. While his campaign says he still supports those policies, he rarely mentions them on the campaign trail these days…
Not every Dem is on board the Buttigieg Bus, of course…
Who could forget Obama touring Iowa championing progressive policies, turning around and calling them purity tests, and polling at 0% with Black voters? pic.twitter.com/yUw9feRoB3
— Sawyer Hackett (@SawyerHackett) November 8, 2019
Note from the co-author of the article linked in Hotline Josh’s tweet, above:
It can be Beto or Buttigieg or anyone else, but there's no "white Obama." His identity was inherently tied to the uniting message and its political success, because that's how identity and identity politics works. https://t.co/zHIaf12Iyw
— Steadman™ (@AsteadWesley) November 5, 2019
You can like Pete Buttigieg AND still acknowledge that he gets an unfair amount of media attention and praise.
— Rachel R. Gonzalez (@RachelRGonzalez) November 5, 2019
In Mayor Pete’s defense, he *did* walk this one back, sensibly:
Pete Buttigieg tells union members in Cedar Rapids that he genuinely believed President Trump, when he got into office, would pass an infrastructure bill that he promised and is surprised that he hasn’t yet.
— Dan Merica (@merica) November 2, 2019
Pete Buttigieg public expressions about how politics work are usually less sophisticated than the median monologue on The West Wing. (Despite that show likely being his primary source material) https://t.co/30DNAJ2htO
— Jeff Hauser (@jeffhauser) November 8, 2019
I think we should wait until Mayor Pete is in at least third place before asking why he's doing so badly with any specific groups, because right now he's actually doing badly with everyone.
— Boo-risma Executive Board Member (@agraybee) November 3, 2019
In June, Buttigieg was at 8 pts in RCP’s avg and now he’s at 7 pts and there sure are a lot of stories about his surge.
It’s true that he’s gone from 13 to 17 in Iowa over that period. But he’s down by about the same 3-4 pts in NH.
Pundits & donors like the idea of Buttigieg.
— Joshua Holland ?? (@JoshuaHol) November 3, 2019
Baud
How much are Iowa caucus goers influenced by that? Isn’t the point of the first in the nation caucus that they really get to know the candidates?
TS (the original)
Buttigieg and Bloomberg – the only candidates of interest at wapo in the past few days. Perhaps realising how much their attacks on Hillary Clinton caused the election of trump the media is just ignoring that there are any women running in the democratic primary. They sure get no free advertising cf the white guys – young or old.
Mike in NC
The aging white pundits are going to spend the next six months following the “horserace” between aging white men Sanders and Biden. That’s all they know.
oldster
Yeah, fuck this guy. If he wants to run for Liz Warren’s VP, then I may listen to him.
But if he’s going to refer to her or Bernie as “the most ideological, far-out candidate possible,” then he’s just a Republican who’s honest about his sexual orientation.
I started out liking Mayor Pete. I am liking him less and less.
Baud
@oldster:
Gotta link?
zhena gogolia
Just in case he does turn out to be the nominee, let’s not s–t on him with too much ferocity.
JR
I’m not going to shit on Buttigieg or anyone else not named Gabbard, Yang, or Williamson, but the guy is a complete cipher to me. It bugs me that experience is somehow viewed as a negative in today’s political environment.
tokyokie
@oldster:
Moi aussi.
zhena gogolia
@TS (the original):
WaPo weren’t the big sinners with respect to Hillary.
zhena gogolia
OT, but they’ve fucked up YouTube again.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: In the last debate, he attacked Liz Warren on the debate stage using R talking points for her M4All plan.
Disclaimer: I am not a fan of that anvil that she has embraced but I thought Pete B’s attack was over the top.
schrodingers_cat
Disheartening news from India, as if there is any other kind. Supreme Court joins in the Hindu majoritarian fuckery by rewarding those who destroyed Babur’s mosque.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I think I heard about that, but I was looking for the source of the specific quote about Bernie. Google was no help.
Another Scott
Scott Simon talked with Mayor Pete for a few minutes with two “undecided voters” about returning to “civility” in politics.
Hmm….
It’s short, and maybe worth a listen.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: I don’t know about the quote. But it would be in character. But confirmation would be nice.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
I heard about that. More conflict ahead.
TS (the original)
@zhena gogolia: I well know that – but they weren’t a great help either. I still subscribe to wapo which is why I know who they are talking about. I have seen nothing on Warren & Harris for many days.
And via google the NYT is saying “Democrats in battleground states prefer a moderate nominee” – so they are away again looking for a white guy – any white guy as long as he acts moderate – like what used to be called a republican
Emerald
Ich auch. Young Mayor Pete is getting just a tad too big for his britches lately. (His comment to Julian Castro, that Castro ought to visit South Bend to see what Black neighborhoods are like, hits on all cylinders: arrogant, impolitic, careless, rash, clueless.)
Really, do these aging white male pundits not realize that Democrats have not won the white vote in a presidential election since 1964?
The path to the nomination and the general election runs through people of color, and especially Black women. Nobody polling at 0% with Black voters is going to win either one.
Harris/Castro. They’re the best candidates anyway, just as a added bonus.
TS (the original)
@Baud: This mentions it
Pete Buttigieg drives for the middle ground between Biden and Warren
TaMara (HFG)
@Emerald: I approve of this comment. ;-) Pretty much my same thoughts.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: It looks like they kinda-sorta tried to thread the needle. Al Jazeera:
27 years for a verdict is an extraordinarily long time, perhaps by design, and going back to the status quo ante was probably impossible, again perhaps by design.
Here’s hoping that things work out peacefully.
Cheers,
Scott.
Ydobon
@Baud: Delurking to post link:
Humdog
It saddens me that “who can get elected” and “who would be best for the future of the whole country” are seemingly so far apart.
I guess you could say I pine for better voters.
Baud
@TS (the original):
Thank you.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Baud: @schrodingers_cat: Link in the original post.
Not obviously referring to one or the other, but implies Warren and/or Wilmer.
So great to have you back Baud!
Great to be hearing regularly again from you too, SC. It’s a shame about that Supreme Court ruling over the mosque site.
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: And they punted and did not hold to account the people responsible for the destruction of the mosque and the carnage that resulted from that. My city burned from December to March. I will never forgive them.
ETA: They is the Hindu right. The Sangh hydra– BJP, VHP, Bajrang Dal etc.
Another Scott
@Baud: WaPo from 11/4:
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Another Scott:
I hope future generations don’t engage in violence over my birthplace.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: At least you are a real person not a figment of someone’s imagination.
Baud
@TS (the original):
@Another Scott:
Thanks.
@lurker who deleted his or her comment.
Thanks for your effort.
sdhays
Regardless of Mayor Pete’s campaign skills, which are clearly pretty good (he’s polling ridiculously well for what anyone would have expected), I still can’t quite comprehend how so many Democrats think it’s a good idea to nominate a guy who’s most advanced political experience comes from being the mayor of some tiny city in Indiana. No one is ever prepared to be President, but some people have had more relevant experiences than others, and the Presidency is one of those jobs where there should be some kind of minimum threshold.
PeakVT
A lie is the most uncivil thing anyone can say. Why can’t “centrists” figure this out?
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Jai Shree Baud!
TS (the original)
@Baud: And he attacked Biden as well – so alienating a large group to appeal to the white guys. Somewhere there is a line between attacking other candidates from your own party & being obsequious towards another politician (as the minions do with trump). A good politician knows how to handle this. Mayor Peter seems to currently lack this skill and doing himself harm in the process.
Baud
@TS (the original):
I don’t know. He has risen significantly in the polls since then, no? Someone is attracted to his approach.
Anne Laurie
@schrodingers_cat:
Saw that, found it depressing, didn’t feel educated enough to do a post about it. But if *you* would like to send me a guest post, hint hint…
tomtofa
When I first heard Buttigieg talk a few years ago I thought he was a tremendously gifted communicator, simple and direct. Still think so. I like his tax plans more than Warren’s (her wealth tax could lead to a court battle that lasts the length of the first term), though I wish some D candidate would come out for a steeper progressive tax rate along with closing loopholes and dealing with capital gains, etc.
I also like Medicare for those that want it more than M4A, simply because it is a lot more popular and could be a plus rather than an anchor during the election. In short, I’d have no problem with him as the candidate, and don’t really have a problem with him saying he’s not the most left or the most traditional/centrist candidate.
Do wish the media wasn’t so intent on disappearing Harris and Booker, though. They both have good things to say.
Sab
@tokyokie: Moi aussi also. I have a Buttigieg Explorers T shirt. More I explore, less I like. What are his positions on anything except gay marriage? Otherwise he seems to be completely malleable, always leaning to big donors.
206inKY
I don’t understand why Klobucher isn’t getting a closer look. We need someone a little mean. She is no shape-shifter and is clearly to the left of Pete or Biden. If you judge by number of drafted bills signed into law, she’s been one of the more productive senators of the 21st century. And I really think she’d be a great top of the ticket for running against Mitch McConnell. To the extent the primary came up at all the past three months, lots of voters I canvassed thought the party was moving too far left.
Anne Laurie
@schrodingers_cat:
Sounded, to me, like a longer-timeline version of America’s ‘Southern Heritage’ mobsters. When it’s about removing monuments to treason in defense of slavery, You can’t do that, it’s our sacred history! When it comes to making reparations, however minor, for the crimes committed in the name of that heritage, It was so long ago — just give it up, nobody cares what happened back then!
ThresherK
“in a statistical tie with Warren, Sanders and Biden”
Aargh. Whenever someone says that, they’re basically wrong.
Also, I don’t hear the same political talent from Buttigieg that I did from Bill Clinton in the winter of ’91-’92. Trump is wildly unpopular, but pundits back then were saying out loud “Why does this…nobody!…want to lose to George HW Bush? It’s not like anyone can beat the Gulf War Hero President.” At this point in 1991 Bill Clinton had to figuratively shove pundits aside and talk to voters face to face in order to overcome the headwind.
Just One More Canuck
That statement alone should be disqualifying
West of the Rockies
I’ve said it before and am saying it again… We don’t win if a portion of our party stays home pouting. We need POC. We need the yutes. We need progressive whites. We need Jewish voters, the LGBT*Q+ community, Asian, Latino, etc.
I hope it is Harris or Warren. If it’s Pete, he’s got my vote. I’d rather it be him than a guy who would enter office an octogenarian.
Baud
@206inKY:
Yeah, I worry we won’t be able to keep our two ends under the same party.
@Anne Laurie:
It’s a little different, I think. The U.S. always had white guys in charge. Muslims originally came to India as conquerers and rulers, and you had the whole partition issue. Not sure it’s a one to one analogy.
TS (the original)
@Baud: I think he is still close to 0 with black voters & he won’t win against trump if they all stay home.
OKBeingaBoomer
I once discovered a cool new band. Their music rocked, and their lyrics were clever and inspiring.
Then OTHER people discovered them as well. It must mean that their music must suck…after all, it’s now mainstream.
Anyhow, I’m off to find a new band that’s worth supporting, at least until others start supporting them as well. Cheers!
Baud
@TS (the original):
They won’t all stay home in the general. And I don’t see how anyone wins the primary without getting a decent share of the black vote.
mrmoshpotato
Who else hasn’t thought of the phrase “gag me with a spoon” in years?
Fuck this “falling in love” shit.
Natalia
I know Mayor Pete. Not personally, but the type. I know it well. The ambitious, smart guy, a nice enough guy but without a particularly strong sense of empathy or a sense of mission, who relies on credentialism to prove his value instead of accomplishments or ideas. Ivy education? Check! Stint in the army (not too dangerous, but respectable)? Check! Political position (something easy, in the Midwest preferably)? Check! He’s a walking, talking LinkedIn page without having actually accomplished stuff.
Compare that to Warren: Modest educational institution, personal struggles, became celebrated professor, an expert in her field. Full of ideas, and, yes, plans. Never cared for Pete, even less now. Go Lizzie!
Baud
Things were simpler when we could just be against Bernie. (Who’s still polling too high.)
O. Felix Culpa
I confess to having a visceral negative reaction to Mayor Pete from the beginning. I really really tried to keep an open mind, especially since satby speaks favorably of him. On the positive side, he is clearly intelligent and an effective communicator. He initially came across as a “uniter” type, until he turned attack-doggy in the last debate. As others have remarked, the (McKinsey-Harvard-white male) arrogance I sensed early on seems to be coming to the surface now and I don’t like it. I get why people might not be enamored of Warren owing to her M4A plan, but if we want a centrist, I’d prefer Harris (whose political lane isn’t clear to me), Klobuchar or Booker. All of them have more experience too. Buttigieg is simply not experienced or accomplished enough yet for the job of president.
Juice Box
I was killing time at the farmer’s market this morning when a pair of young men came by offering to talk with me about their candidate. I declined the opportunity, but the woman next to me wanted to hear more. She was particularly enthusiastic to learn that Andrew Yang was a “uniter, not a divider”. Sigh. He probably understands that we don’t have a red America or a blue America, we have a
United States of America.
We’ve had three businessman-presidents; Hoover, GWB, and DJT. Hoover was even a successful businessman. I’m sure that the fourth time would be the charm. The Republicans would surely be extra gentle with a political novice as well.
schrodingers_cat
@Anne Laurie: There are some similarities, I agree @Baud: That’s only half the story. Islam in India predates the Ghoris and Ghaznis. Arab traders brought Islam to southern India. India has the second largest Muslim population in the world. Islam has been in India over a 1000 years. What the Hindu right seeks to do, excize Islam and its cultural influence on India is akin cutting off parts of your body. If it is done, it will destroy India.
Many people in the subcontinent converted to Islam because they found its message appealing.
Mary G
I’m usually not a fan if the “it’s their turn” theory of choosing candidates. In Pete’s case, it’s not his turn. He lost elections for state treasurer and DNC chair. Going for president is like applying to medical school after flunking 8th grade algebra. I appreciate that any office in Indiana is a tough situation.
All of my mother’s friends, lifelong Democrats in their 80s and 90s, are firmly in his corner. They are the dependable voters, so he’s got a chance. I have tried to sell Kamala with absolutely no luck at all.
I am also taking another look at Klobuchar. Her snark game is good, she can deliver the MidWest, and she’s a woman. Castro for VP.
O. Felix Culpa
@Natalia: I think you may have articulated what was behind my visceral negative reaction. I couldn’t quite put my finger on it at the time, but I’ve been around “the type” you described plenty and maybe it set off warning bells.
@Mary G: I prefer Harris over Klobuchar, but would be content with a Klobuchar/Castro or Klobuchar/Booker ticket.
Dev Null
@Natalia: McKinsey.
yuck.
zhena gogolia
@tomtofa:
I heart this comment.
the Conster
Once I get a visceral reaction to something, there’s no going back. I watched Mayo Pete on Pod Save America and a couple of other interviews and liked him, then he started getting outsized attention, and then he started pissing me off with his *coastal elite* comments, his belief in *economic anxiety*, and his cozying up to his buddy Zuck, his dismissiveness of his own black community, and now I can’t stand the sight of him. Can anyone imagine a black married lesbian mayor of a small midwestern city being taken seriously running for president, yet here’s Cream of Pete rising over Castro and Klobuchar.
@206inKY: Yes, I’m rooting hard for A Klo and Harris. The more I see of Warren the less I like her, and as my Senator, I used to like her a lot. Then she said “I’m with Bernie”. Her dismissiveness and irritation at being asked to acknowledge how the whiteness of IA and NH distorts the primaries and her “I’m just a player in the game” answer to Amy Goodman yesterday set off my alarm bells. This from the person who talks loud about big structural change, and piled on the DNC with her BFF Wilmer for *rigging* the primaries.
Mary G
@O. Felix Culpa: @Natalia: Natalia nails it. I couldn’t articulate that ambitious checklist theory.
Harris is still first in my heart, but she isn’t catching fire. Waffling around on M4A didn’t help. I wish just one of the candidates would just tell the truth – single payer is my ideal, but with the Congress we will have, it won’t pass.
Ben Cisco
I’m rather unimpressed with Mayor Pete. Also thoroughly uninterested in the WaPo or punditubbies selecting a nominee. If the predetermination is that it HAS to be a white male acceptable to the “Let’s just get along” crowd, we’re already fucked.
Citizen Alan
I have this persistent feeling that if Pete Buttegieg were straight, he’d be a Republican. I’m probably wrong in that, but it’s a nagging impression I have about him. Anyone that invested in being a Centrist is someone who probably could have been a moderate Republican just as easily as a moderate Democrat.
O. Felix Culpa
@Mary G:
Maybe couple that with “this is why it’s important to elect a Congress, i.e. Democrats in House AND Senate, that will help us get nice things” and “here’s what I will do within the parameters of Presidential power to get us closer to the nice things we all want.”
O. Felix Culpa
@the Conster:
No.
oldster
@Citizen Alan:
“I have this persistent feeling that if Pete Buttegieg were straight, he’d be a Republican.”
That’s a little harsher than I feel about him, but yeah, that’s the direction of my concern if not the absolute value of it.
All that said: If Mayor Pete is the ultimate Democratic Candidate, I will donate to him, I will campaign for him, and I will vote for him.
The worst of the Democratic field are a hundred times better than anything the Republican Party is going to offer up, whether that’s the current incumbent or some replacement.
So take my condemnation of him in that context. I think we can do better: Warren best of all, but Harris, Booker, or Klobuchar too.
dogwood
@Just One More Canuck:
Like Pete, I’m also surprised they never passed an infrastructure bill before 2018. Trump would have signed it; it’s right up his alley. He could have traveled the country with his Sharpie autographing shit. Maybe a bridge or two would have been named after him.
Mary G
Exactly. The Democratic candidates should put out a jount statement. It’s a tough problem, but we believe in universal access to health care. It can’t happen with Republicans in charge. Vote for your Democratic candidates so we can get started.
All the attacking each other’s plans is doing Putin’s and the Republicans’ work for them.
MisterForkbeard
@dogwood: I agree.
I thought Trump and the Repiblicans would pass a debt-funded infrastructure bill and funnel money to cronies. Trump and Republicans would have claimed massive amounts of credit and their fan club and media would have shrugged off the corruption and ‘getting things done’.
Surprised they didn’t do it. It seems like a no brainer for a corrupt government that doesnt actually believe in doing good.
MisterForkbeard
@Mary G: This. This needs to be something all democrats push together. The plans are ALL good if they could get implemented. And we all agree on the ultimate goal, if not the method.
PJ
@Natalia: You forgot his stint at McKinsey, which will reassure the Wall St. types.
the Conster
@MisterForkbeard:
That’s basically what Klobuchar said to Warren – they all have good plans and the same goal. Warren has said that if you don’t support her plan you’re NOT THINKING BIG and you belong in the Republican primary. It’s demagoguery. She needs to cut that shit out.
zhena gogolia
I don’t find this kind of thread too productive. We really shouldn’t be tearing down our own prospective candidates this way. “Oh, McKinsey disqualifies him!” Bullshit.
chopper
i don’t mind the guy much but he’s not even in my top 5. meh.
smintheus
Doesn’t know any better? He knows that he used to advocate leftish positions like Medicare for All that he now says he opposes on principle because they show no respect for the public.
Ok, on second thought, since I think he’s an unprincipled opportunist, then yes he probably doesn’t know any better when he attributes his opportunism to ‘principle’.
Gvg
He is too inexperienced. I am really really not liking that trend. I like experts. Obama even concerned me with that, but reassured me by running such a good campaign. I hate Trumps ignorance and really don’t want a newby to follow him.
I also don’t want someone too old, so I guess I am difficult.
Actually Warren is a tad inexperienced for my taste. She hasn’t been in government that long and I don’t think she was a department head or anything before. Obama had been a state senator before. Oh well. We’ll have to see.
Natalia
@PJ: True, true. Although I expect that’s the only part he’ll try not to highlight too much among regular folks. I do hope it comes up during the next debate.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Citizen Alan:
A lot of people would be Republicans if the Republicans weren’t batshit bonkers crazy. If only we had Purity Tests like the other side?
Another Scott
@Ben Cisco: If it has to be a white male, then Sen. Tim Kaine is probably the most sensible “next in line” guy.
I don’t think it has to be a white male, myself (either ;-).
Cheers,
Scott.
the Conster
@zhena gogolia:
That’s what primaries are for. It’s called vetting.
low-tech cyclist
@JR:
Aaron Burr’s advice in Hamilton
Talk less, smile more
Don’t let them know what you’re against or what you’re for
Not that that reminds me of anyone…
Jay
@dogwood:
The current crop of ReThugs don’t believe in “infrastructure”.
You have to go back to the ‘50’sband ‘60’s to find a ReThug who believes in infrastructure.
From the ‘70’s on, it was either P2P where in Taxpayers subsidized Billionaires profits for shoddy work, or selling off paid infrastructure to Corporations for their benefit.
tomtofa
@Gvg: So who, then? Klobuchar? She definitely has the broadest and deepest record, mostly on the correct side of things. Another one, along with Harris and Booker, who the media is ignoring.
Jay
@PJ:
Other than those caught up in McKinsey’s current felony/fraud charges.
smintheus
@TS (the original): NYTimes keeps pushing the garbage Siena swing state polling that any number of people have shown is a garbage poll with ludicrously skewed demographics (and which the pollsters admit they had to cut short before it was completed because the responses were derisive and the completed response rate unusually bad).
dogwood
@Jay:
The current crop of Republicans don’t believe in anything but power. Some sort of infrastructure bill would have been good for them in terms of retaining power.
jl
@Citizen Alan: ” if Pete Buttegieg were straight, he’d be a Republican”
Seems like a lot of Republican closet sex scandals say that the straightness versus gayness is irrelevant. Buttegieg is smart and has some ethics, so probably more along those lines. And honesty. If he pretended to be straight and exploited male hookers in the quiet back rooms, then he’d be cut out for the GOP.
Buttigieg is not my favorite candidate. He seems to pliable to corporate and big donors, who have auditioned a few potential pet centrists this cycle, looking for one who can be pliable and popular. But some weren’t pliable enough and some couldn’t produce enough sustained popularity. Over next few months we’ll see if he can formulate some clear policies that will help ordinary people and really back them. I don’t know whether he is trying to be the 2020 Obama. Is he a younger Biden running a feel good campaign that is mostly PR with little policy substance relative to other major candidates? Didn’t seem to work out for Biden, who had to at least go through the motions of having policy substance. I think Buttigieg will have to do the same or he’ll end up like O’Rourke, a bubble of support than decline.
smintheus
@the Conster: She never said that. She did say that Democrats should think big though, so there’s a tiny kernel of truth to that Republican talking point you repeated.
Jay
smintheus
@Just One More Canuck: I agree. It’s disqualifying not just because he believed a sociopathic conman and trusted that Republicans would take an actual interest in governance. It’s also political malpractice to admit as a candidate that you’re so easily gulled by the opposition.
piratedan
@dogwood: to me it speaks to the idiocy of the gop… they were so busy fighting the culture wars that they had two years to do something… anything that could have given themselves some political coverage.. or a sop to the middle class white folks keeping their latent racism in the background and instead they gave more money to rich guys….
low-tech cyclist
@zhena gogolia:
The point is, he shouldn’t be a prospective candidate. Not only is he far too inexperienced, but he’s about a centimeter deep. I’d rather have Joe Biden or Bernie Sanders as the nominee, and that’s saying a great deal because I’ve got little use for either one. But each of them is coming from somewhere, and would have some notion of what to do as President. Mayor Pete would be the mark in the political poker game.
Another Scott
@dogwood: Moscow Mitch was clear in December 2016 that no infrastructure bill was going to happen:
Anyone who thought that McConnell was going to let any significant infrastructure plan through was borderline delusional, IMHO. Donnie just wanted to give away the store to his buddies, and try to skim a bunch off the top (“campaign donations” and “hotel reservations” and the like). McConnell knew that wasn’t going to happen, and wasn’t about to give Democrats what they wanted (a downpayment on rebuilding and maintaining 50-150 year old structures that are crumbling and not up to the needs of the 21st century).
Pete was naive if he believed Donnie. And a charlatan if he’s now telling voters that he did when he actually didn’t…
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
smintheus
@sdhays: On top of that, the same people also seem to believe he could win a presidential election when he has won only a single one of the elections he has run in, obtaining a grand total of only 9,000 votes.
the Conster
@smintheus:
Klobuchar, Pelosi, and Clinton have also criticized her Medicare for All plan. Are they repeating Republican talking points too?
low-tech cyclist
@Citizen Alan:
If this were the 1980s and there were still moderate Republicans, he coulda swung either way politically, I’m sure.
But now? At best, he’s a younger, hipper Joe Lieberman. But a Lieberman who was talking like Howard Dean just a year earlier.
ETA: Here’s the thing about Buttigieg’s sudden move to the center – either it’s opportunistic or it’s a genuine change of heart. If the latter, he doesn’t know his own mind well enough to be running for President. And if the former, who knows what other positions he’ll sell out, and for what.
Either way, it’s not good.
dogwood
@Another Scott:
They didn’t have to pass some trillion dollar bill. Just pass something, build some shit and then let Trump proclaim it the mostest bestest biggest jobs program of all time.
Jay
Another Scott
@dogwood: Moscow Mitch doesn’t care about helping the country. He cares about staying in power by punishing Democrats. That means not spending money on things that Democrats advocate.
He’s told Donnie “no” on several occasions. He has no compunction about doing so. All he wants Donnie to do is nominate judges from the lists that the Federalist Society prepares, and sign bills that Moscow Mitch lets through.
That is all.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jay
@the Conster:
Nope, but you keep doing so.
the Conster
@Jay:
So disagreeing with Warren is being Republican now? I’ve been a Democrat longer than she has. I also disagree with Mayor Pete being the nominee, and his endless talking and not doing. Is that a Republican talking point?
Jay
Jay
@the Conster:
$52 trillion dollar M4A bs. Repeated day after day, disproven after each and every post, yet you keep reposting that bs.
Funny that.
Jay
@Another Scott:
Yup, double yup,
??????
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
Pretty rude, considering Pakistan just opened that corridor for Sikhs to visit their holy site.
Dan B
As a gay white male I was very excited to see Pete as a potential president and his thoughtful and calm message seemed great. The negative comments about him seemed visceral reactions. It seemed to me that David Axelrod’s observation at Pete’s launch that there were very few black people was astute. Also his preppy upbringing seemed like a vote killer. Now that he is attacking Warren I’m less impressed. It’s self serving.
I like his M4 those who want it. It would accomplish 90percent or more if single payer in a decade or less. His appeal to incrementalism is good for the general. However I wonder if he recognizes that the main job of the next Democratic administration is to clean out the bigots and criminals, and the oligarch enablers.
I have never thought he’d be elected and feel he wouldn’t even if he won the nomination. If he can’t win statewide in Indiana he would lose Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, and the electoral college by bigger numbers than Hillary unless there is a recession and probably even then. Outside of the NE, west coast, Colorado, and Illinois are a lot if states full of people who say they’re fine with a gay president but would not vote for him. And there are lots of states where the majority would like him locked up just for being gay.
The thing I like about his campaign is it shows that being LGBT is not politically untenable, except for the presidency. There are many states where he’d win as governor or Senator.
The gay blogs love the fact that he is running although the comments have been less effusive since he attacked Warren. I think most LGBT people know the sting of being attacked for your existence and your belief that you are a worthy member of society. Even if you, like me, believe that Warren’s policy positions are unachievable until our media and social media are held to account and our oligarchs knocked down a few hundred notches, we can’t fault her for how these policies would ameliorate the suffering of millions of people. Why attack her as an extremist if her heart is in the right place?
LGBT people have only recently been recognized as people who want love and to share the love of the larger community.
Jay
Dan B
@Mary G: Excellent idea. If even 6 of the candidates signed it we’d be on the right track. Everybody deserves to be healthy and not be broken by the cost.
I hope a prominent pundit is reading your comment.
Jay
topclimber
@Mary G: Sounds like a job for the Democratic Platform–something endorsed by delegates, not just candidates that our nominee and Congress critters can run on regardless of their individual preferences.
Jay
Jay
Jay
O. Felix Culpa
@Dan B: Speaking as a LGBTQ+ female, I felt from the beginning that Buttigieg’s white maleness took precedence in his personal presentation over his LGBTQ-ness. So, while it’s lovely that a member of the community is getting some serious play, he still seems to be located very much in the lane of white male privilege. Great if it works for him. But I’m not convinced it works – or that he works – for me, much less for POC.
Jay
secret Russian anarchoRex
Payor Mete can’t even bring South Bend together, and he thinks he can do it for the whole country?
Jay
Conster’s next Warren talking point, pre-debunked,….
smintheus
@Mary G: Single payer may very well not pass, but at least it’s an honest proposal to transform medical coverage for the better.
Medicare-for-all-who-want-it is not – instead it’s a gimmick. Nobody is going to enroll in MFAWWI who is already covered by the ACA (or employer-provided coverage) unless it is significantly cheaper than all other options. Medicare *at present* just is not an ideal coverage plan, it’s bare bones coverage. The way to make it genuinely cheaper than private insurance is to have it cover everybody. However once you reject trying to do that – because it’s haaaarrrd to get done – then you’re stuck with having the government subsidize the cost of MFAWWI. And those subsidies would have to be much more generous than the current ACA subsidies … meaning, the program would be extremely expensive for the government just to get it to the point where it could become attractive to a moderate number of people.
Is that stupid enough? But wait, there’s more! The people most likely to join MFAWWI would be people already covered by the ACA. You would end up spending more to give less generous medical coverage by siphoning people out of the ACA plans and into MFAWWI – thus making the ACA plans more expensive and possibly destabilizing the exchanges.
Brilliant plan. Who but a political opportunist looking for a way to attack supporters of single payer would dream up such a disastrously ill-conceived “solution” to … what? … the need to get medical coverage for people who can already get it under a big Democratic success story.
Jay
Jay
@smintheus:
?????
Jay
smintheus
@the Conster: Again, you grossly mischaracterize what Warren said – this time by quoting poor journalism that grossly mischaracterized what she said, as if that insulates you for lying about it as well.
japa21
Sometimes, I feel like the primary process is one of moving away from candidates instead of moving toward them.
I really liked Pete at first, and he grew on me a bit, but he has lost me lately. Same thing with Warren. I was lukewarm, heard her a few times, and then lately she appears to have become more arrogant and in the “It’s my way or the highway” mode. I had viewed her as the progressive antidote to Sanders who I have totally rejected. Now I see her as Sanders 2.0.
I like Biden, and still do, though not as much as I did.
Maybe the reason I still like Harris and Klobuchar is that they haven’t seen enough exposure to find out things I don’t like. But since I try to find things and have tried, I haven’t had reason to move away from them yet.
smintheus
@MisterForkbeard:
Not when they could use the opportunity to pass a debt-funded tax cut bill and funnel money to cronies permanently.
Mathguy
@Natalia: Thanks for saying this. It’s exactly what I was thinking. Mayor Pete seems like a walking, talking checkbox list.
smintheus
@japa21:
Because that’s what her rivals like Biden and Buttigieg claim? Or because she has actually taken a ‘my way or the highway’ approach to any policy ever?
Dan B
@O. Felix Culpa: I felt that Pete’s gayness was valuable in his getting noticed, the novelty story – man bites dog. He’s been talking about being gay quite a bit so I believe it is important to him. I feel the problem is the well off white brainiac has left him with the white male obliviousness problem. I know I’m still working on my own obliviosness and I’ve lived in a neighborhood that had a high percentage of blacks for 35 years and a neighborhood with 12 percent whites for 10 years. And I’ve volunteered with a minority led environmental justice organization – helped it get off the ground.
Most of my white gay friends are comfortable with and friends with black and other minority guys but probably obliviosness to the history and the issues. I don’t know how to raise awareness. Even when I was in Black and White Men Together it was not an outreach or educational group. It was just a support group. That was very important just as the women’s consciousness raising groups were in the 60’s.
I don’t know how many white gay men are racist or right wing. My guess is very few and primarily in cities where there are enough gay black men to sustain a separate social scene. Seattle is not.
My other question is how many gay and lesbian couples in the deep south are right wing. There are a lot of LGB couples there per capita.
I agree with your main point with a minor tweak or three.
japa21
@smintheus: Because that is the approach she is using on M4A. According to her the only two options are her plan or the current system.
smintheus
@japa21: Cite? By which I mean, her actual words in context. I have seen virtually every one of Warren’s statements over the last several weeks lied about, misconstrued (often deliberately), half-truthed to death, or twisted into some gnarly form of ammunition. And I’ve seen people naively buying that bullsh*t about her without bothering to investigate what Warren actually said.
jk
@japa21:
I’m liking Mayor Pete less after learning that he took campaign staff recommendations from Mark Zuckerberg.
If Biden or Sanders becomes the nominee, we hand Trump a great gift by making health a major talking point. Biden and Sanders should be disqualified because of their age. Electing someone President who is over 75 years old is simply batshit crazy.
Dan B
@smintheus: I agree about implementation of M4AWWI but feel thst can be addressed. I’m on Medicare and don’t like the bare bones, co-pays, and the monthly fees. The ACA is also problemmatic, a big mountain to scale for poor people. It feels to me that we need to keep improving the ACA in a way that moves private insurance into providing premium coverage like Canada does. And reducing medical paperwork plus negotiating drug prices, and transparency for big pharma. Call me a dreamer (or a screamer.?..)
O. Felix Culpa
@Dan B:
Yes. That was part of my initial irritation, given there were several outstanding and significantly more accomplished female candidates already in the race.
This is both true and irrelevant to his qualities as a person and especially as a presidential candidate, IMO.
This in spades. (Although I don’t think the brainiac part is the contributing factor so much as it is well off, white and male.) And I prefer not to have any of the three B’s with that problem – Bernie, Biden and Buttigieg – as our candidate, with the usual proviso: broken glass, etc.
“I agree with your main point with a minor tweak or three.” LOL. :)
Jay
@Dan B:
In Canada, there was Private/Employer Insurance for those that could afford it. 24% of the population.
Medicare was introduced not to provide insurance, but instead, healthcare. Luckily, most hospitals were Provincially run, so getting them to accept medicare wasn’t a struggle.
Getting Doctors and Private/Corporate Hospitals to accept medicare, was a bit of a struggle.
Dan B
@jk: I liked Pete a lot less after hearing about the Zuckerberg staff suggestions. Then I found out they only hired two out of 30, or however many there were. The bigger issue os meeting with Zuckerberg but I believe his serious issues have become much more clear in the last few months. I thought he was just a libertarian putz but his steadfast refusal to deal with policies that promote hatred and genocide bring him closer to Goebbels level evil, or at least Goebbels level outcomes.
If Pete denounces the lack of regulation by Facebook I’d consider some forgiveness.
Dan B
@O. Felix Culpa: I’m sensitive to the brainiac since I’ve known a few Mensa members who were completely full of themselves and their mental gamesmanship. Total lack of emotional intelligence or self awareness seemed to accompany the attitude.
O. Felix Culpa
@Dan B: I know people like that too, but I don’t like automatically coupling intellectual intelligence with a lack of emotional intelligence. Some bright people are like that, but many are not. It’s not a necessary condition. (Perhaps Pete’s in that category as you suggest. I don’t know.)
J R in WV
@schrodingers_cat:
You are thinking so, now? Hmmm… ;-)
japa21
@smintheus:
That’s. That’s the choice. Sounds pretty arrogant to me,
MisterForkbeard
@japa21: What she’s trying to do here is frame the debate as “leave it the way it is, or fix it by doing it my way”. Which isn’t bad politics, really.
It’s also technically wrong, but it’s forgivable in the grand scheme of things. Her comments that DO bother me were the ones that were interpreted as “Not wanting M4A is basically being a republican”. That’s extremely simplified, but I winced when I saw her quote.
Kay
Well, I’m not supporting him but I have to give him credit for formulating some kind of coherent vision and having a good campaign organization. There are only three who have done that so far, IMO, Sanders, Warren and Pete.
I like Harris and Klobachur but the truth is their campaigns are just like senate campaigns. Listen to anything Klobachur says and tell yourself she’s running for a senate seat rather than president. It would be the same. I don’t know what Biden is running for – vice president?
It’s President. It has to be a bigger theme than “expand the ACA marketplace” or keep public schools open to 5 PM. It has to be something that the 50% or better of voters who pay no attention to policy can perceive as a theme or reason for running. That’s what they’re responding to. That’s why Bernie, Warren and Pete stand out.
Omnes Omnibus
@MisterForkbeard: Together, they don’t constitute a good look.
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay: How would you describe the bigger theme/vision that Buttigieg offers?
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: Its is much worse than rude. The Sangh ginned up a non-issue and rode it to absolute power in 27 years. Supreme Court is just another hand maiden of the RW government.
Kay
@O. Felix Culpa:
Younger, forward looking, technocratic with a healthy dose of that kind of bland, quasi-religious “servant leader” stuff those people love.
It’s not my cup of tea but it’s coherent and it makes sense. He’d hire conventional people who are smart and would have excessively complex plans where everyone has to “qualify” but at the end of the day the plans or programs are not that generous or transformational and they don’t apply to a lot of people :)
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
I must say I was happily surprised by Pakistan’s move when I heard about it this morning. I would not have expected them to be magnanimous, but they were. I even began to feel hopeful. Stupid me.
J R in WV
@the Conster:
The more I see of the Conster talking about Warren the
lessmore I like her and the less I like the Conster. Never any real criticism of Warren, just generic Bernid-bro hatred of women in general.Incel Russo-troll flavor of the day!
the Conster
@J R in WV:
What are you babbling about? I’m an old white woman, galaxy brain. When Warren decided to attach herself to Bernie at the hip she opened herself up to criticism. Warren stans are becoming as obnoxious as Berniebros, and I’m surprised to see so much of it here. My first choice is Harris, and then Klobuchar, and then if I have to, Biden. Does that make me a self-hating woman hater?
Kay
If I were Joe Biden I would organize my whole campaign around one word: “trust”. No one is supporting Joe Biden for policy. They’re supporting him because they know him and trust him. That’s a good reason to back someone. It’s very positive! It’s how the vast majority of people operate and it’s how Joe Biden operates too- he has relationships. With people. He doesn’t care how they get health care. He just wants that person he met who said they didn’t have it to get some.
secret Russian anarchoRex
@the Conster: don’t take it to heart, he assumes everyone that disagrees with him is an easily dismissable cardboard cutout.
the Conster
@Kay:
I think he’s running on a return to norms of behavior, democracy, and yes, he’s devoted to preserving Obama’s (and his) legacy of the ACA. He also does know our allies and his appeal to a lot of people is exactly that – restoring *trust* that America hasn’t withdrawn from its obligations to the western alliance. No major policies are getting passed through the Senate, so that’s a pretty solid place to be for him. Klobuchar occupies that same lane. She doesn’t have the same foreign policy chops, but she’s laid out her commitment to restoring the DOJ and the Intelligence Community reputations and undoing all the EOs and focusing on corruption. Sounds good to me.
Kay
Biden doesn’t have to talk about policy at all and he surely doesn’t have to attack anyone else’s. He really could just list the things he wants for people and then assure them he’ll take care of it in some fashion :)
I feel like he’s making his campaign much more complicated than it has to be and it’s that infuriating thing where more effort makes things worse. They’re overthinking this. It’s pretty simple for him!
the Conster
@secret Russian anarchoRex:
Calling me an incel is *chef’s kiss*. I’m a grandmother lol.
secret Russian anarchoRex
@the Conster: your family is lucky then. My grandma is so far down the crazy Trump conspiracy hole that she probably doesn’t even remember what the surface looks like.
the Conster
@secret Russian anarchoRex:
I told my children all through the Reagan years that when they grew up there isn’t anything that they could be that I wouldn’t love them through, except they were too smart to be born again or a Republican and I wouldn’t accept that. It worked.
Kay
@the Conster:
He doesn’t have it, though. It’s not coherent enough to come thru strongly. I mean, you and I know it but instead he’s getting nasty and specific when both of those things go against his core strengths. It’s just unnecessary. No one’s backing him for policy anyway. He’s not an abstract person. He gets to “cancer” not thru an interest in disease management but thru a person he knows who had it. That’s fine. People can go small to big or big to small. He goes small to big.
Kay
@the Conster:
But that isn’t about the ACA to him. It’s about Obama. The person he had a relationship with. The people who are backing him know that. It could have been M4A in Obama’s health care bill and Biden would be backing that.
Kent
Honestly, I don’t think the experts have the slightest fucking idea what is electable and what is not.
Dole, McCain, Romney, Kasich, Jeb Bush, Edwards, Gephardt, John Kerry, and Bob Kerrey were all supposed to be “electable” mainly because they all made the “moderate” dicks on white male pundits twitch.
Reagan, Clinton, Obama, and Trump were all considered “unelectable” because they were too “something”
the Conster
@Kay:
He’s doing well enough with whatever he’s doing to keep his front runner status. He can be relied on to not criticize Obama and attacking Obamacare at the very least, and honestly it’s probably why he’s the front runner. The well of affection for Obama is deep and some of the other candidates don’t seem to get that.
Kay
@the Conster:
He’s at his absolute worst when he’s pretending to care what Medicare costs or showing us he knows the difference between de facto and de jure. That’s not why people would vote for him. He’s in the enviable position of not having to prove a lot yet he seems determined to do it anyway. I’m baffled by it.
O. Felix Culpa
@Kay: Thanks. I think your final phrase about his programs ultimately not being all that generous or transformational hits the nail on the head. I suppose being a technocrat is a kind of vision, but it doesn’t appeal to me. I worked in economic development and witnessed first-hand the bright young technocrats at work. Some were genuinely well-meaning, but they had far too much confidence in their own wisdom and too little humility to acknowledge their limitations. So they were less helpful than they could have been and sometimes more harmful than they should have been. Frankly, it takes a special kind of arrogance to be a McKinsey consultant.
Although I’m no Biden fan, your recommendation for him to run on the theme of trust is spot on.
Another Scott
BlueVirginia.us:
Women are on the move in Virginia, and the new legislature recognizes their importance and value. I suspect that the country is going to make similar determinations in 2020 and moving forward. We’ll see if a woman, finally, gets the big chair…
Cheers,
Scott.
206inKY
@Kay: This is a really good point. I’m supporting Klobucher, but I think you’re right that Warren has done a better job of articulating a presidential-level vision. Sanders clearly has done so as well. I think Klobucher does have big ideas like free community college and fixing all the damage that Trump has done to the ACA, but I don’t know if others find those as exciting as I do. I also find her mean streak appealing, maybe because I keep fantasizing about her throwing a binder in Trump’s face. In some ways the mean streak is the closest thing she has to a presidential vision—it fits the sheer badassery of her launch speech in an ice storm.
I disagree, though, about including Pete alongside Warren and Sanders as candidates who have articulated a presidential-level vision. He and Harris have been the hardest for me to wrap my mind around; both seem to be running identity-based campaigns in which policy positions are just tactical. In the Bible Belt, I think a man having a husband is a bigger stretch than being a woman of color, so it baffles me how Pete could be a safer choice than Harris if someone’s in the market for a consultant-style weathervane.
For electability (including the role of the presidential candidate in carrying the entire Democratic slate), I kind of think things are stacking up like this:
+ (probably win)
Klobucher
Booker
* (maybe win)
Warren
Harris
Pete
— (probably lose)
Biden
Yang
Sanders
Steyer/Bloomberg
I think Biden is toast as much because of Hunter as his slipping verbal acuity.
Kent
@206inKY:
I think “generically electable’ and “electable against Trump” are two entirely different things.
Trump is a master at the male dominance act. He went through all the giant GOP slate of hopefuls in 2016 like they were nothing, basically by posturing and doing the dominance thing that a lot of guys seem to like.
Trump’s weakness seems to be competent women. He just doesn’t seem to know what to do with them. Pelosi has him absolutely flustered and incoherent. And when he tried to do the macho thing against Hillary it was just weird and creepy like in the debates when he hovered behind her.
I honestly think any of the leading women (Warren, Harris, or Klobuchar) make the best matchup against Trump and I frankly think Pete would be the worst. Despite his military background he just doesn’t seem to be very good at summoning his alpha male. That’s not a gay thing, it’s just his personality. GOP attack monsters would quickly turn him into the next Michael Dukakis.
O. Felix Culpa
@Kent: I`d just add that Biden would probably be a bad debate matchup with Trump too. His tough guy posturing is embarrassing.
206inKY
@Kay: Your read on Biden seems exactly right. I think it’s why Fox, which plays incessantly at my gym, keeps showing split screens of Joe and Hunter. They are trying to turn one man into the other. It makes me run in fear, but maybe I’m overestimating how successfully they’ll be able to undermine baked-in perceptions of Biden as a trustworthy “uncle Joe” who tells it like it is.
My biggest worry with Joe is that there’s even a tiny bit of substance to the critique of Hunter; it alarmed me that Vindman’s testimony mentioned cautioning Biden back when Hunter first took the job. That right there makes me want to wash my hands of him and find a better option (not that I’m supporting him to begin with).
smintheus
@japa21: I notice you don’t give a link, or context. What she is doing is explaining why MFA is not as hugely expensive as critics posit, which she does by comparing it to the cost of the current system. She doesn’t state or imply or intend to suggest that there are no other alternatives than MFA.
I have never seen anybody actually back up the claim that she is intellectually dishonest or intellectually arrogant about her proposals. To me that suggests it is just a desperate Biden/Buttigieg talking point because they don’t want to come to grips with her actual policies.
206inKY
@Kent: Agree completely. I don’t know why I put Booker that high anyway. Considering how Trump trembles before Pelosi, maybe it’s more like this:
+ (probably win)
Klobucher
Warren
Harris
* (maybe win)
Booker
— (probably lose)
Biden
Pete
Yang
Sanders
Steyer/Bloomberg
cokane
Hmm… I think it seems perfectly fair the amount of coverage Buttigieg is getting. He’s really the only candidate who went from having zero name recognition at the start of this campaign to now having at least *some* name recognition. No one else from the lower tier has really broken through in the polling, not even actual senators like Klobuchar and Harris.
So there’s something to be credited there. At the same time, I hardly feel like he’s dominated the coverage. It’s still mainly about whether Warren, Biden or Sanders will win. Hell, if anything, the one candidate getting a undeserved lack of coverage, despite his polling position, is clearly Biden. And it’s kind of troubling since right now, he’s the favorite to be the nominee. And if he ends up winning Iowa and New Hampshire, the race is going to be over very very quickly, with little to no vetting of the kind of campaigner he is at this point.
Ryan
I’ve been reading this blog daily since primary season 2007 and the Pete hate has me for the first time ever thinking about not continuing. I can’t understand what y’all are not seeing here. He’s the most inspiring politician I’ve ever seen, Obama included. He’s the most strategically adept Democrat I’ve seen in my lifetime. He’s not in any way remotely a centrist or a moderate. Just because some of his policies take a more pragmatic approach than the guy who until last cycle was not a Democrat, that makes him Joe Lieberman? Give me a fucking break. I don’t know if it’s generational or what, but it’s extremely off putting and again, nothing I’ve read daily in 12 freaking years has caused me to even comment here let alone want to say fuck it. I just can’t imagine what the deal is.
secret Russian anarchoRex
@Ryan: he’s older than I am so it’s definitely not generational. If anything, I believe his polls tend to show that the olds prefer him more strongly than the youths. But to respond to your point, There’s just something about Pete!, and some people love it and some people hate it. I, for one, have met a lot of credentialists with resumes like his in my time, and I can’t say I’ve been a fan of most of them. Also, his father was true-red(?) Marxist professor, I don’t know how you go from that to where he is now.
David ??Booooooo?? Koch
@Ryan: most people who post here favor Warren. It’s natural to be critical of your favorite candidate’s opponents.
If Pete wins the nomination, I’m sure everyone here will be wildly supportive.
AxelFoley
@Ryan:
LOL Pete’s alright, but no.
Another Scott
@Ryan: It’s still early. Nobody has voted yet, and we know that there are going to be wildcards appearing for whoever is the leader.
Pete has never really clicked with me. He could potentially – he knows how to talk, can say sensible things. But whenever I listen to him for more than a minute or so, it seems like he says lots of words, but they don’t seem to have much substance behind them. What actual policies does he want to implement? What does he want to spend federal dollars on and why? Like the discussion with undecided voters about civility:
(Note that the radio segment is much longer and has some more substance, but the point remains.)
He couldn’t have had a topic better suited to his campaign. But what did he say?
“It’s about setting a tone.” “I’d shake hands with him.” “We all want to be Ok.”
Yeah. What other Democratic candidate doesn’t want those things? Hillary shook hands with him multiple times, also too.
Although I often break the rule, in general I want to vote for people for high office who have a track record. How have they voted when they only get 55% of a loaf? Do they punch down? Do they represent their constituents’ current opinions, or do they try to incrementally lead the people to a better place? What do they do when they have a setback? Do they build a team to try to continue moving forward after they leave office, or is it all about them?
Pete’s been a mayor of a small city. He seems to be in a hurry to be on top. Why? Yeah, Indiana. But Obama won there once. Pete’s got time to put his “common purpose” into action on a smaller stage and show that he can make it work before moving up. What specifically does he offer that other candidates with a track record don’t?
Every politician has a giant ego and varying degrees of hubris. But Pete’s hubris seems over-the-top to me.
We’ll see.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Jinchi
@Ryan:
I don’t think there’s hate on this blog for anyone not named “Bernie” or “Tulsi”, and certainly not for Pete.
I do think Buttigieg gets legitimate flack for his latest strategy, attacking other Democrats using Republican language about “confiscation” and “purity tests”. I was particularly put off by his attacks on Beto O’Rourke in the last debate, stirring up right wing fantasies that Democrats are going to send police door-to-door to seize weapons. That was a cheap shot at an already fading candidate, but moreso against a gun-control movement that has become a critical part of the Democratic resurgence.
This strategy only legitimizes Trumpian language, which will be directed against whoever wins the nomination, even if that person is Mayor Pete himself.
Ryan
@Scott On the topic of civility and unity, I can’t think of anyone who has provided more specific policy proposals than Pete. He’s proposed a national service initiative to employ a million people a year in national service programs in l with the idea that like in the military, people of diverse backgrounds working together creates a sense of unity. He talks about his specific climate change policies in terms of making it a national project like the moon landing that everyone can feel they have a part in. Just because he didn’t get there in this one interview didn’t mean he doesn’t have specific policy. He’s outlined policies on healthcare, systemic racism, climate, democracy, etc that are just as specific and frankly just as progressive as anything Warren has put out.
Another Scott
@Ryan: You inspired me to poke around peteforamerica.com
He does have some substance there – like the Douglass Plan.
I’m glad that you’re inspired by him. He’s rubbed me the wrong way in several of the debates and in soundbites I’ve heard. But honestly I’ve not ruled him out.
It’s still early and a lot can happen. We’ll see.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@206inKY: I agree.