This is more Adam’s turf, but one thing you need to know about the Pentagon is that the wargame everything and have so many people there it would be unsurprising if they have a plan for everything. Every now and then you see an alarming headline that says “Pentagon has a plan to attack Russia,” and a lot of people freak out and think that means there is an impending attack on Russia. Really, you should say to yourself, “Well, that kind of is their job” and realize they probably have about 200 different plans to attack Russia and in varying circumstances. Having said all that, this is still unsettling:
The Pentagon recently began drawing up plans for an abrupt withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Afghanistan in case President Donald Trump surprises military leaders by ordering an immediate drawdown as he did in Syria, three current and former defense officials said.
The contingency planning is ongoing, the officials said, and includes the possibility that Trump orders all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan within weeks. Officials cautioned, however, that the planning is a precaution and there is currently no directive from the White House to pull U.S. troops out of Afghanistan.
One of the officials called it “prudent planning.”
The Pentagon is doing contingency planning not because an enemy like Kim Jong whatever is nuts, but because OUR President is an unstable nutjob.
Raoul
He is an idiot and a coward. Like all bullies, he will cut and run.
And everyone else will suffer for his disastrous, despicable, disfiguring moral depravity.
debbie
It’s definitely prudent. Having to bomb our own munitions was ridiculous and must not be repeated.
I really hated hearing that the soldiers were being pelted with garbage by Kurds as they withdrew. This nightmare is not their fault; Trump should be the one to through that gauntlet.
hells littlest angel
Having to make plans based on what Trump might do must be a nightmare. What do you do, run all your plans through a shredder and tape random bits back together again?
Mike in NC
As far back as the 1930s, the War Department had color-coded contingency plans not just for possible foes like Germany and Japan, but allies like Canada and Great Britain.
One of the last exercises I worked on included action to be taken from the “threat” from the superpower Venezuela.
misterpuff
Excuse me. DOD should have doing this from Day One.
Mattis could see what POTUS was (unstable non-genius) from first DOD briefing.
Aziz, light!
Mostly I hope they have a plan to disregard his orders when he decides to nuke someone. Or will we be doomed by some top brass Dudley Do-Right who thinks saving the world is secondary to the chain of command?
patrick II
@debbie:
I was happy it was just garbage. When you think of what we did to those people and the future they face, a peaceful withdrawal might have been a very difficult task.
jl
It could happen. One reason is that Trump is desperate to run on some accomplishment in 2020, and he knows he has exactly zero accomplishments except for the rich person’s GOP tax cut that no one likes. Trump did promise to ‘bring the troops home’. He didn’t say anything about doing that in a way that made things not worse then before. And if he commits more troops overseas in more precarious and/or sordid situations in other places, if he doesn’t talk about it, then it didn’t happen. And, one of his foreign paymasters could request it, or make an ugly scene during a perfect phone call. So, there are two avenues by which a precipitous withdrawal could happen.
The withdrawal itself might not be the worst part. Trump will back peddle in the wake of criticism, and will try to reverse the irreversible if there are immediate bad results from withdrawal done in an incompetent way. Then good chance Trump will not withdraw completely, but shuffle troops around and send more overseas in a vain attempt to fix the unfixable
Any congressperson who has any ethics, who cares about any decent thing at all, would be screaming to impeach and remove Trump asap.
TaMara (HFG)
Well, he is the biggest threat to the United States right now, so glad they are planning accordingly.
Cermet
While I hate the orange fart cloud, us pulling out of Afghanistan is terrible – why? There is essentially zero chance the existing government can stand without our being there so even after ten more years, the situation will be the same. Exactly how, then, do we get out in any way without that result occurring? Religion will always keep people fighting for such insane reasons – so, the Taliban will continue fighting no matter how long we stay. Unless we flood the country with soldiers, sooner or later, the corrupt government we created will fall. Just more lives will be lost waiting. I wish our continued presence would make the difference but past history and more recent history says no. I’d love to know how we can leave in any reasonable time period and how that is better than an simple cut and run. The Taliban come in no matter which method we follow.
Mnemosyne
@Mike in NC:
I’m sure that all of our allies have similar plans, and never dreamed that they would have to update them to account for a crazy man taking over the United States. But that’s where we are, unfortunately.
dexwood
@debbie:
Having to bomb our own munitions was ridiculous and must not be repeated.
Catch-22 comes to life. It was the first thing I thought of when I read the story a few days ago.
oatler.
“Yossarian, get off the runway! This is an M&M Enterprises operation!”
Mnemosyne
@Cermet:
You mean other than the genocide that will inevitably follow?
geg6
@dexwood:
Yep, me too. Catch 22 is the perfect novel for our times. Lots of prescient stuff in there.
Uncle Cosmo
@Aziz, light!:
My mostly-uninformed more-hope-than-guess is that someone like the Chairman of the JCS has in his safe several copies of a document already signed by Dense and more than half the Cabinet, declaring the Shitgibbon unable to discharge the powers & duties of his office per Section 4 of the 25th Amendment. And that, should Cheeto Benito order a nuclear strike anywhere, White House military staff have standing orders to stall its execution until copies reach the Speaker of the House and the President Pro Tem of the Senate, at which point Pence becomes Acting President and has enough sense to countermand the command. I know that’s assuming a levelheadedness unprecedented in the current maladministration…but it’s probably all we’ve got. :^(
Josie
I’m wondering if the Pentagon is putting this out there to encourage Republicans in the Senate to get off square one and actually consider impeachment. They may want senators to realize that, If he is not removed from office, he still has a year to screw things up even more than what we have seen in the Middle East. It could get a lot worse.
HumboldtBlue
Yeah, well, while you liberal elitists spend your time hating Trump, Jesus and our country, it appears that one former president has been masterminding this entire Russia hoax aimed at unlawfully and illegally removing America’s greatest President from office!
PRAY FOR TRUMP! PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY!
Cermet
@Mnemosyne: And will happen no matter what unless we stay there until religion changes to a rational philosophy; the Taliban won’t walk away or negotiate a peace plan that doesn’t put them in power. More seriously, sooner or later we will leave but what you say comes to pass any way. But after the russians left, there wasn’t a “genocide” and that government was a good bit worse than the one we set up. But still, you’re saying we stay until the Taliban are eliminated? Or what, exactly? I’d like to know – no sarcasm on may part but I’d still like to know a plan that makes sense and we aren’t still there in an open ended situation like now, spending vast resources and lives still being lost in fighting.
Mnemosyne
I am horrified but not surprised at how many lefty online “pacifists” turned out to be isolationists who couldn’t care less about genocide as long as it happens to other people. ?♀️
karensky
@TaMara (HFG): ?% agree
Rusty
I worry more that Trump will decide to withdraw from NATO as a favor to Putin or out of pique from some imagined slight by an ally.
SoupCatcher
Since everything has to be a win, and beating Obama at anything is doubly attractive…
Who can convince Trump that the real money and prestige come pouring in once you’re a former President?
It took Obama eight whole years to achieve that status, but Trump has a chance to do it in four!
dexwood
@oatler.:
Time stamp tie, but you get extra points for the quote.
JaySinWA
I am concerned that they didn’t appear to have one for N Syria, and especially don’t have one for Afghanistan. We probably need one for Turkey.
Trump has been rumbling about withdrawal forever. To assume that his staff would stop him from a precipitous decision has been shown to be a fatal error in concept.
Mnemosyne
@Cermet:
Uh, yeah, you may need to refresh your memory on the pre-9/11 government in Afghanistan if you’re remembering it as “no genocide.”
It’s true that there’s not much we can do now to “fix” Afghanistan — we screwed the pooch with our invasion of Iraq in 2003. But there’s a huge difference between an orderly withdrawal and bugging out so quickly that we have to bomb our own installations from the air so the weapons we left behind can’t be used against us. If you think that an orderly withdrawal is what Trump is going to do, you may want to pay better attention to current events in Kurdistan.
Butter Emails
@Mnemosyne:
We also have a current class of wankers in charge who wouldn’t even grant asylum to military interpreters upon our withdrawal, let alone all the people at particular risk from the Taliban.
hueyplong
@Rusty: Or simply because Putin told him to do it during the course of a perfect conversation.
@Uncle Cosmo. So which cabinet members are we hoping to be members of a majority willing to sign such a document ahead of time to ward off a hypothetical disaster? I’m not sure a majority are vertebrates.
Mnemosyne
@Butter Emails:
Yep. Anyone who can be termed a “collaborator” with the US in any sense is going to be thrown to the wolves, because the US doesn’t recognize any responsibility for the mess we created.
But, hey, they’re just Afghans. They should have known better than to trust us. ?
chopper
@hells littlest angel:
“we learned this technique from bill burroughs. now, you take the scissors like this, see…”
Cermet
@Mnemosyne: I remember that government (Taliban) very well. It was typical ultra religious nutcases but no where near a genocide. And while you are correct that the fart cloud would just pull us out (Vietnam style) the loss in life might or might not be any greater than if we pull out in say, five, eight or ten years from now. But in no case can that country be saved unless we again occupy it with a few hundred thousands soldiers and spend many. many billions bring its entire economy up and education system for at least a generation. No way we can afford this as our own country continues to deteriorate – sooner or later, we pull out and all you say will, to greater or lesser extent happen anyway. Unless you have a solution?
Mary G
@Mnemosyne: We paid them a lot of money, dontcha know? //
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
they’ll be the last of their kind, too. i imagine field work for the CIA in the ME is going to become a million times harder when it comes to cultivating local assets. “yeah, you shitbirds are gonna walk and leave me twisting in the wind like you do with everyone, no thanks”
Mnemosyne
@Cermet:
Again, you may want to Google that if you think there was no genocide in Afghanistan prior to 2001. Try scrolling down to “Civilian Massacres.”
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan_Civil_War_(1996%E2%80%932001)
Until you acknowledge some basic historical facts, I really don’t see the point in continuing this conversation.
piratedan
@chopper: agreed, 75+ years of plausible deniability or at least a fig leaf of portraying ourselves as the moral ethical folks battling for self determination in the world just got flushed down the toilet because rich people didn’t feel rich enough and others wanted to be racists in public and a significant number of people, just wanted to own the libs… which is all kind of funny, because to date, our government was essentially founded on liberal political theory of self determination…
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
to be fair to cermet, the word ‘genocide’ doesn’t appear on that page, and likely for a reason. if wikipedia is your source here, note that afghanistan then isn’t listed in their page on historical genocides. civilian massacres are awful, but genocide is a whole bigger ball of wax.
lgerard
Jacob Wohl stages another extravaganza, this time targeting Ted Cruz
Complete with Milo, an angry neighbor and banjo music!
Cermet
@Mnemosyne: Where there mass killings by the Taliban? Yes, genocide – no. So you need to read the facts yourself. The report doesn’t say what you think it does. That was a brutal civil war and part of the country was still fighting when we went there – that country has fought many conflicts and mass killings have been done many times. But that is and was the state of that country for a long time over the centuries. I acknowledge facts but again, no genocide occurred so your statement on that issue is wrong nor does your report to linked to that (thanks for the link – it is informative.) Will there be large number of killings if we leave now? Certainly. Will there be when we leave there either sooner or later? Again, certainly. So how does this work out? Unless we can change that country what you say happens no matter what. Our best course is to negotiate a worthless treaty and leave. That happens no matter what so why waste vast resources continuing a failed effort – that is, unless you have a better idea? That, again, I’d like to hear.
Martin
STRATEGY: WINNER:
KENYA OPTION NONE
PACIFIC DEFENSE NONE
UGANDA MAXIUM NONE
THAI SUBVERSION NONE
PAKISTAN SOVEREIGNTY NONE
PRESIDENT TRUMP NONE
Amir Khalid
@Cermet:
The religion, Islam, is not the problem. The problem is the extreme fundamentalism of the Taliban; well, that and them being one more warlike tribe in a land traumatised by too much tribal warfare.
Ruckus
@hells littlest angel:
Shred and tape.
It’s the new normal.
And of course you are right that makes as much sense as anything else out of this clown. And that explains why some hate clowns with the heat of a thousand suns, if clowns can fuck up a wet dream, think what they can do to a government and a country.
Mnemosyne
@chopper:
Oh, well, if they were mere civilian massacres, then what’s the problem? Let’s just bug out as quickly as possible and not worry about what happens! //
A little more seriously, it is a little fraught to try and decide when people of the same or similar ethnicity are massacring each other or engaging in genocide, but I’m not sure that difference matters very much to the dead and bereaved. In the end, a mass grave is still a mass grave.
Aleta
James Stavridis, PhD, Admiral, US Navy (Retired) Supreme Allied Commander at NATO 2009-2013
Uncle Cosmo
@hueyplong: No idea. I agree it’s farfetched, but it’s the only contingency plan I could cobble together that wouldn’t require bloodshed or a military coup.
Cermet
@Amir Khalid: I never said that was the problem but if you got that impression, I want to be clear that I do not believe that Islam is the problem.
Mnemosyne
@Cermet:
As I just said, a mass grave is a mass grave, but feel free to tell yourself that a mass grave filled with people who were murdered for collaborating with the Americans is no fault of ours. They never should have trusted us in the first place, right? We have zero responsibility to, say, try to evacuate the people who helped us before we leave. Every (wo)man for themselves, that’s the American way.
Dan B
@Amir Khalid: I’ve believed that the “problem” with Islam was due to the Saudi export of Wahhabism through funding mosques and madrassas, and stocking them with extremist clerics. The British helped by creating chaos in the middle east and the house of Saud got rich rapidly but didn’t evolve out of tribalism.
satby
At least Tom Steyer’s group Need to Impeach has decided to put a big ad buy against the Turtle in Kentucky. I hope Steyer does more of that and drops out of the primaries.
Cermet
@Mnemosyne: Then you need to change the world because that is going to happen not just for Afghanistan but for many, many parts of the world as AGW destroys so many countries over the next thirty to forty years. So, again, unless you have a plan for Afghanistan, I don’t see what you are arguing for? Endless American troops there? Then what? We will leave at some point and then, exactly what you fear would happen anyway. So us adding more resources and dead people helps, how? I’m still waiting for a rational solution and unless you offer one, your arguments are just that – arguing. I too would love a real solution that saves lives but I’m realistic – it isn’t gonna happen. I’m not saying what you indicate isn’t terrible. It will be but it will happen no matter what since we aren’t gonna stay there forever.
Dan B
@Dan B: I have a number of Muslim friends and acquaintances who are very progressive socially and politically. The mindset has as much variety of outlooks as Christianity.
Yes, that’s not very complimentary but there are striking similarities in the Abrahamic religions and the ways they get distorted by money and politics.
cain
These generals are dumb. Trump is going to be doing troop withdrawals for sure. But it will be from places like Germany. Remember, this man thinks the Europeans owe him something and it’s all about grievance, and that they should pay their fair share. So he’ll try to withdraw the troops there saying we are no longer the world’s policeman. This will of course be something Russia would enjoy because it can go and attack its neighbors.
hueyplong
@Uncle Cosmo: Yes, it’s the very reasonableness of you plan that makes it seem so unlikely to be in place in this White House.
Ruckus
@Amir Khalid:
Extreme fundamentalism.
That seems to be an issue through out the world. Is it from rapid change? Is it from a population size that doesn’t fit into the same little boxes that it did decades ago? Is it the natural evolution of religion that doesn’t change when the world does, or does try to change when the world does?
The world is a different place by more change in my lifetime than it often has been in spans of hundreds or even thousands of years. Are we in a massive adjustment period of history, due to the confluence of technology, religion, population growth and greed?
Cacti
Rep. Schiff today on the failed censure resolution from House GOPers:
Yep. This will be one of those “which side were you on?” moments of U.S. history. Nobody will be remembered well for standing with the Dotard.
Mnemosyne
So, again, you’re fine with us abandoning people who helped us because, hey, they’ll be dead in 30 or 40 years anyway, so who cares if they get shot in the head now? Saves them a bunch of suffering in the long run, amirite?
My argument is in favor of an orderly withdrawal that includes refuge for the people in Afghanistan who helped us and will be targeted by death squads if we abandon them as abruptly as we did the Kurds.
Hervin Khalaf was gang-raped and stoned to death after the US abandoned Kurdistan, but who gives a shit, right? Now she doesn’t have to worry about dying from global warming, so it’s all good!
Jeffro
@Aleta: And one heck of a public speaker and all-around smart guy, if I can add my two cents.
Jeffro
@Cacti: It’s almost like an integrity haiku.
Cermet
@Mnemosyne: And I hope we allow mass migrations of Afghans. But that I seriously doubt with AGW and the economic fortunes of this country the way it is. But you need to understand that this all occurs whether we stay one more year (with a bad draw down treaty) or five years under a Democratic Admin. Just that the thugs will blame the liberals AND just an many Afghans still die – and more likely, even more due to the longer conflict. I’m not saying your wrong in any way just that it is gonna turn out terrible no matter what. Just when the blood is paid – sooner or later. This is pointless arguing when I am just being realistic and you are just pointing out what will happen. Maybe try to get a movement on allowing migration of political refugee’s – that might reduce the bloodshed.
Chetan Murthy
@Mnemosyne:
Even if we didn’t believe in the moral rightness of protecting people who worked with and for us, it would be sheer insanity to throw them to the wolves — b/c someday our nation is going to need foreigners to work with us again, and on that day, we’re going to want them to know we keep our promises to -individuals- and their -families-.
One can FERVENTLY believe we need to pull back from garrisoning the damn planet, but also believe “not like this, dammit, not like this.”
Kent
I’m of mixed opinion about Afghanistan. There are people here who served there and probably have a much better opinion. But it seems to me that:
1. Afghanistan has always been the graveyard of empires from the British to the Soviets to Alexander the Great. I’m not sure why we thought we were special.
2. The job was botched from the start by the Bush Administration who basically abandoned the war in Afghanistan before it was near over to rush into Iraq. And has continued to be botched ever since by incompetence and endless attempts to rely on corrupt local forces. Obama had 8 years and a mini-surge in Afghanistan. Did that accomplish anything at all? Are the Taliban stronger or weaker than they were in 2008? Is the Afghan government stronger or weaker than it was in 2008? I honestly don’t know.
3. We have been “training” the Afghan Army since what? 2003? How much more training do they need? There are soldiers in the Afghan Army who were not even born when the first special forces entered Afghanistan and began to train the locals. Forget the 6-month Friedman units. How many GENERATIONS of Afghans do we need to train before they can stand up on their own?
Yes, we have a stake in the outcome of the country now that we have intervened. That’s the Colin Powell Pottery Barn analogy. We broke it so we own it. But at some point we have to acknowledge that we can’t reform the whole world. Yes the Taliban, should they regain control, would be horrible for women’s rights. But so is Saudi Arabia. Are we going to invade Saudi Arabia. For that matter so are the Amish and the Hasidic Jews in this country. Are we doing anything about them?
I, for one, think we should be doing contingency planning for withdrawal from Afghanistan. I have zero confidence that Trump would ever do it in any rational way. In fact I have confidence that he will choose the worst possible way to do it out of all the available options. In fact he’ll probably figure out a worse way still than the whatever worst case scenario the Pentagon comes up with. But eventually it will have to be done. This isn’t Okinawa or Germany where we have forever stragetic legacy troops as a result of victory in World War 2. Leaving troops in Afghanistan is like leaving troops in Vietnam permanently.
mad citizen
I used to listen to Unstable Nutjob back in the day of the albums “Ivana Wanna”, and “Marla Marla Marla”, but since John Barron, John Miller and David Dennison left the band, it’s just been unlistenable. I don’t know anyone who likes the albums “Grab ‘Em By the P$%&y”, “Russia if You’re Listening” and of course “Covfefe”. They’ve really taken a dark turn these last few years.
Gravenstone
@Martin: WOPR has been updated for the current situation, eh?
Adam L Silverman
My take on the reporting is the Joint Staff doesn’t want to get caught flat footed again and basically have to make a run for the border and then have our own air blow up everything we left behind. Especially as the President has ordered a drawdown in Afghanistan, which is ongoing, and is rarely/sparsely reported on.
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
yeah, that’s exactly what i said.
Another Scott
@HumboldtBlue: I just noticed tonight that Donnie’s father’s middle name was “Christ”. No wonder he has a messiah complex in addition to his narcissism.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
(“Christ was his grandmother’s maiden name.”)
NotMax
“Hey Carl, there’s been a new tweet. See if you can find a folder labeled Swaziland. Stat.”
Adam L Silverman
@Mike in NC: Venezuela was War Plan Puce if I’m recalling correctly.
sdhays
@misterpuff: It’s pretty clear that Mattis, while probably the most competent and honorable member of Dump’s Cabinet, was still a very low quality hire.
Adam L Silverman
@jl: Relief in Place/Transfer of Authority (RIPTOA) and draw downs are the most dangerous times for our personnel and those of our Coalition allies. If they aren’t done right, you get huge spikes in KIAs and casualties. Even when done right, you’re still going to get spikes.
NotMax
Meanwhile, Mr. Fuxit goes a-courting. Kushner to visit Israel to meet with potential new government leaders.
Buried at the bottom –
Adam L Silverman
@lgerard: Can we even confirm that Mrs Cruz actually had sex with him the two times she became pregnant and it wasn’t in vitro? Because I’m not sure anyone wants to have sex with Senator Cruz, let alone a whole bunch of people.
schrodingers_cat
@sdhays: The bar for T hires is in the basement.
NotMax
@NotMax
“Oh Christ on a flat top, what now? Atlantis?!”
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: There are no tribes in Afghanistan. The kinship dynamics, even among the Pashtun, are not tribal. Which is why trying to replicate what we had tactical and operational success doing in Iraq.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Chetan Murthy
@Adam L Silverman:
Adam, but there are a bunch of different ethnicities, right? It’s not all Pashtuns, is what I remember. I don’t remember all the various names, but Hazara, Usbeks, Turkmens, and I’m sure others? And IIRC a good bit of the divisions were between ethnic groups, right?
kindness
With Trump’s notions I would bet he’s asked the military to work up a plan to invade his dreaded enemy California.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: Can you define what you mean by genocide here? The Taliban are likely going to kill many but there is a difference between genocide and civil war.
The Lodger
@Adam L Silverman: This whole situation is CASE NIGHTMARE ORANGE.
Amir Khalid
@Adam L Silverman:
Well, I go by an expansive definition of “tribe” myself, but I accept that you are right about there not being tribes in the sense accepted elsewhere. But from what I recall of the novels of Khalid Hosseini (who is not me, by the way) is plenty of hostility between — ethnic groups? regions? — in Afghanistan.
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: Even that’s being too generous.
CaseyL
@Mnemosyne: Stop it. Cermet isn’t saying he doesn’t give a shit; he’s asking, quite reasonably, how long we need to stay. You’re saying we stay until the religion, culture and population completely transform themselves. Which would take generations. So you’re saying that the US has to be an occupying force for 40 years. How often has long-term occupation worked out well – for anyone?
If you’re saying, we need to take our allies with us, that is an entirely different issue. I agree. But the sadistic sociopath in the WH doesn’t feel that way, nor do his lackeys in Congress. Instead of being angry at Cermet, how about you be angry at the people who will actually pull out of Afghanistan without caring what happens to the people who helped us?
We’ve been in Afghanistan for 18 fucking years, and have nothing to show for it. The Taliban are still around, still ready to take over when we leave – whether that is tomorrow, next month, next year, or next decade.
schrodingers_cat
Didn’t most active duty military vote for T? I remember reading that somewhere.
schrodingers_cat
@sdhays: True and Barr is in the basement eating cookies. A lot of my D friends IRL had great hopes about Mattis. Oh he will keep T on the straight and narrow they said. I asked them based on what do you make this assessment. They would murmur something something mad dog. It all seemed like wishful thinking on their part.
ETA: All white and born in the USA. My immigrant friends (India, Russia and Norway) on the other hand had no such illusions
polyorchnid octopunch
If anyone’s interested, you can follow the Canadian election online at newsinteractives.cbc.ca/live-blog/federal-election-live-2019
This election has been a pit fight, with lots of mud to go around. Check it out if you’re interested.
Another Scott
@polyorchnid octopunch: Thanks.
35/6/3/1/1 at the moment. A long way to go (170 for a majority).
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
@chopper:
Sorry, I should have made the sarcasm tags more clear. That frustration wasn’t (primarily) directed at you, which is why I followed it up with a “but seriously” statement, but I could have been more clear.
lgerard
@Adam L Silverman:
You haven’t seen him when he is decked out in his bondage gear
( as described today by this very powerful,nonfake witness)
TS (the original)
@Cacti: that is worth repeating
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: I don’t know what the percentages are, but I’m really curious how much of military voters will swing against Republicans after this. American troops getting pelted with rotten fruit as they tuck their tails and run away because President Brain Worms ordered an immediate withdrawal by tweet is deeply humiliating, and it’s just not something that can be both-sided because it’s just so out there. And the deafening silence from the Republican Party should be pretty hard to ignore as well. Leningrad Lindsey got all huffy but folded in less than a week, and the rest are too lazy to even try to put on a show.
Where is the breaking point? I’d like to believe there is one.
Barbara
@schrodingers_cat: I hoped against hope for around two weeks or however long it took until Trump decided to ban Muslim immigration. As I told a friend of mine, I don’t pay close attention anymore, because that takes time away from figuring out how to get rid of him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@schrodingers_cat: there’s a Politico piece today that makes Mattis look pretty weak by the end of his tenure in the administration, and it’s written by Mattis’ speech writer
Mnemosyne
@CaseyL:
Actually, I’m not saying that, and I have clearly stated my position multiple times. What I’m saying is that we need to do an orderly withdrawal which would include refugee status for the Afghans who helped us.
What we’re going to get is another bug-out with massacres in our wake. You may be fine with that, but I’m not.
Adam L Silverman
@Chetan Murthy: Correct. There are multiple ethno-national groups. And each has their own kinship dynamics. The real question is, however, why after 19 years of stress from US and Coalition operations on top of the decades of stress from Taliban rule on top of warlordism, why we see tribal behavior from groups whose dynamics aren’t tribal?
Adam L Silverman
@Amir Khalid: There is plenty of inter ethnic group hostility and violence.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Mnemosyne
@CaseyL:
Also, read Cermet more closely. He doesn’t give a shit about the people who helped us — they’re just competitors for survival after global warming hits in 30 years, so they may as well die now. That’s repulsive white supremacist garbage that he needs to take back to Stormfront.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I didn’t read all of it. The first paragraph was pretty flattering, Mattis was playing chess or while T was being an idiot, I am paraphrasing but it was something to that effect. Mattis’ tenure on the Theranos board calls into question both his smarts and ethics.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: It isn’t that I disagree with you, I do understand your point, but if we leave on an orderly basis it will be under the stated premise that a working government is in place. Declaring refugee status for everyone who helped us will immediately give the lie to those stated intdntions, to everyone. This is an awful situation but I don’t think it will ever be handled the way you are suggesting.
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: There you have it, Dems.
I’m fine if this whole issue stays in the news a while. People should know what Gabbard and Wilmer are all about, and they should know who supports them (both online and financially).
Duane
@Adam L Silverman: Leaving Afghanistan now is a terrible idea because Trumpov will screw it up. The Syrian withdrawal is disasterous as predicted.
He’s likely to do it anyway, for any number of reasons, but he’ll campaign on bringing troops home. He’s desperate and will do anything to win.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: No. And it’s complicated.
sdhays
@schrodingers_cat: The “funny” thing is that he pretty much is the only one to have actually stood up to Liddle’ Hands. That’s why I said he was the “most honorable”. He slow-walked the transgender order and ignored some of the crazy orders farted and forgotten early in the administration. But in the end, he was in over his head (to be maximally charitable) and completely failed to rise to the occasion regarding the threat posed by Dump. Even now, he’s trying to cash in with his book of toilet paper rather than raise the alarm over the threat posed by the President of the United States. What a patriot.
We shouldn’t be surprised by a guy who collected wads of cash while sitting on the board of a complete and total fraud. And we shouldn’t be surprised by a guy who said “yes” to Donald Dump.
Adam L Silverman
@lgerard: There are things I neither want to or need to know. This is one of those things.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
FWIW, I’m conflating this Afghanistan news with the giant “meh” on rose Twitter last week when it came to the genocide in Kurdistan. It all seems to come from the same place of isolationism.
mrmoshpotato
@lgerard: Who should we root for? Oh right – injuries.
CaseyL
@Mnemosyne:
What the everlasting fuck?
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: From the man who honeymooned in Soviet Moscow.
Adam L Silverman
@schrodingers_cat: Read the whole excerpt, it will be worth your time. And show why it was both beyond even Mattis’s abilities and a fool’s errand for him to think he could do some good by taking the appointment as Secretary of Defense.
Mnemosyne
@Barbara:
Do you have a link for this? Because it’s the first time I’ve ever seen anyone state that we can’t leave until we agree that there’s a working government in place. I think that multiple government officials have been saying that going back to the Bush years, but I didn’t know that there was a regulation or law requiring that.
CAinCA
@polyorchnid octopunch: CSPAN2 is showing live election results from CBC.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Another Scott: Yeah. This one’s a very consequential vote. The level of dog-whistling that has gone on in this election far exceeds any of the elections in my experience; in part because of the law against religious wear on public servants in Quebec, and in part because for the first time one of the three major parties is led by someone who’s not white (Jagmeet Singh, leader of the NDP), and also because the right wing parties in Canada (currently the CPC and PPC) are attempting to make the Trump play of energizing the white supremacists.
So far things are looking encouraging. As usual, the big battleground are all the ridings in Ontario, which has nearly one in three of all people in Canada. It’s about to get real as all the polls in the centre of the country (Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Albert going East to West) so the next hour or so will really tell the tale.
Martin
@Gravenstone: Shall we play a game?
Mnemosyne
@CaseyL:
Sorry, person who didn’t read my multiple explanations of my actual position and completely misrepresented what I’ve been saying, what was I supposed to take from what you said?
Leto
@CaseyL: Well you didn’t read any of the posts where she stated, multiple times, her position, instead barfing up whatever the fuck nonsense you wrote. She gave you a better response than you deserved.
@Mnemosyne: It does, but it also dovetails nicely with, “we spend too much on the military, we should strip it back to 1918 levels!”
RAVEN
@Leto: Unass that AO!
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
NotMax
@Duane
Withdrawal? No, fauxdrawal. Stark betrayal of our allies there is what it is/was.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: The part of the article I had issue with is where Mattis thought this:
I guess he wasn’t paying attention to the news for almost two years.
Mnemosyne
Anyway, I have to go work on revising a short story now, so I’m going to wander away. Good night, all.
NotMax
@Leto
Tough for him to pick up a newspaper while both his hands are busy fluffing Dolt 45.
polyorchnid octopunch
@CAinCA: Cool. On the gripping hand, you can look at the CBC stream as a golden opportunity to get a window into the politics of your northern neighbour and largest trading partner, because the people in there know Canadian politics very very well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Leto:
a serial bankrupt trust-fund-baby who stumbled into the hosting gig of a bewilderingly successful game show
Martin
Dolphins: Our goal is to be the next Browns.
Jets: Hold my beer.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: My understanding from the biographical reporting is that in one on one and small group settings, provided something hasn’t set him off or is bothering him, the President comes off as charming, engaged and engaging, and personable. My understanding is this also simply part of how he manipulates people.
Chetan Murthy
@Leto:
Ehh, I doubt that he didn’t realize the fucker was a thief and an incompetent. Thing is, he thought to himself: “how bad can it really get? I can handle this!” Only thing is, he couldn’t. But he knew. I mean, it wasn’t a secret how unfit Shitler was. He knew. He’s just telling it differently now, b/c …. well, the obvious reason: “it sells more books”. And assuages his ego.
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Haha. How generous of Wilmer to help others with ratfucking. Bets on when he starts screaming that the primaries are rigged against him?
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The “mythos” of Trumpov strikes again!
@Adam L Silverman: I’ve read the same, which is why Mattis’ speechwriter noted that he had met Trumpov multiple times in small group settings. Mostly food events.
SHINY!!!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@mrmoshpotato: when he loses Iowa? Or will he wait till he loses NH?
James E Powell
I’m watching Canadian election results on CSpan2. I have no idea who these people are or the specifics of this election, but I can follow it somewhat. They’ve called it for the Libs.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: Look! A kitty!
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: I am extrapolating from what happened in Vietnam. No I don’t have a link. I have a reasonably sound understanding as to how this has played out previously.
Leto
@Chetan Murthy:
Agreed on both. As a few opinion writers have noted, as well as fellow Jackals, he wants to straddle that line of, “non-political military” while also ignoring the fact that he was a civilian Cabinet member. He also has no problem shitting on Obama, but won’t say a word here where his knowledge of just how bad it is is extremely valuable in helping to inform the public about why the shitstain is unfit for office.
Didn’t we have a law about when a general office could retire and then take a Cabinet position? 5 years? Might need to make that 10 and have a no exception policy.
NotMax
@Leto
Can confirm that (second-hand) from a reputable source, a distant acquaintance of impeccable professional pedigree who was White House counsel last century.
Chetan Murthy
@Leto:
I feel that it would be granting Mattis a level of rank stupidity just …. well, incompatible with his career … a level of -truly- abysmal stupidity, to imagine that he didn’t get someone to do a little research on Don Bedsore, at which point, Mattis would know just how unfit the imbecile was. I mean, generals are used to dealing with fast-talkers, and sales tactics in small-group settings. I can’t believe that he wasn’t aware of all this.
Which just makes his failure all the worse.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: As long as it’s not a bird-of-prey, he’ll be fine ;)
TS (the original)
@Another Scott:
CBC have called the election for Trudeau, though have said “whether it will be a minority or majority government remains to be seen.”
From the Guardian coverage
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You think he might not whine all summer? Haha
NotMax
@Leto
Congress passed an exception for Mattis.
The only other time that was done was for, IIRC, George Marshall.
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: He comes off as a child predator. If someone interprets that as charming and personable, they’re simply a shitty judge of character. I know people that have met him in a small group setting and they said their ‘don’t let my kids near him’ alarms went off.
schrodingers_cat
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Holy Basil is totally a foreign asset. Good on HRC.
TS (the original)
@sdhays:
There is none – What remains of the GOP will still be supporting trump in 40 years time.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: Damn Klingons!
Elizabelle
@James E Powell: Yes. It sounds like CBC and others have called it for the Liberals. At least, projected it.
Whoo. I hope so.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: I’m just relaying what has been reported. I’ve never met him and doubt I ever will.
Elizabelle
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why is it that Balloon Juice and girls can see it, and the white male candidates cannot?
Shame on them. Bernie is just giving cover. Like he gives a fuck about the Democratic party, anyway.
TS (the original)
@schrodingers_cat:
Indeed – and he tried to get the army into the Theranos fold.
Leto
@Chetan Murthy: It makes all their failures that much worse. Kelly, McMaster, Mattis… Kelly’s morals aligned with Trumpov’s, while McM and Mattis were simply sidelined and relegated back to civilian status.
@NotMax: Was it Marshall or Eisenhower? Either way, Congress needs to be smacked and told, “NO!”
Martin
@Adam L Silverman: For your sake, I hope you never do.
I mean, it’s really a matter of judgement. There’s not a huge line between smarmy and charming. But I think a lot of people convince themselves that smarmy is actually charming because it aligns with their interests. None of us are perfect.
It’s not like Trump is an unknown quantity on this. If Mattis didn’t know he was fucked up after the Access Hollywood tape, well, I don’t know what to tell you. And there’s literally hundreds of signs before that to tell you the same thing.
NotMax
@Leto
Without going to look it up, fairly certain it was Marshall becoming SecDef* during the Truman administration. Ike never held a cabinet position.
*jargon tax to be sent to Adam’s favorite charity
Leto
@Adam L Silverman: Well played, sir; well played /slowclap
@Elizabelle:
I saw a clip of his rally this weekend, with AOC onstage talking about how he did something to help the Dem party, and I almost screamed the same thing, “HE’S NOT A DEMOCRAT!!!!” He held his rally in Queens and it was a veritable sea of vanilla ice cream.
@NotMax: A-ha! Got it.
Another Scott
@NotMax: And it shouldn’t have been done for Mattis.
Donnie insisted on breaking every rule and norm that he could. Congress shouldn’t have gone along with it.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: Sanders pushed back because Gabbard quit the DNC in faux outrage in 2016, accused the DNC of rigging things against Sanders, and then endorsed Sanders.
Adam L Silverman
@Leto: It was Marshall. Eisenhower only held one civilian position in the US government, the presidency. There is no waiver required for that.
NotMax
@Leto
Note that Queens is a minority majority county.
Adam L Silverman
@Martin: I agree with you.
Brachiator
Just ran across this thread and story.
I guess it is prudent that the Pentagon prepare for this. They seem to understand how reckless and unstable Trump is. To bad that the GOP leadership can’t get a clue.
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
i know it was sarcasm, i’m not an idiot. but the point behind that sarcasm was a complete and total straw man. pointing out that “genocide” actually means something doesn’t, in any language on this planet, translate to “oh let’s pull out of afghanistan and fuck em all!”
NotMax
@Another Scott
There was vigorous chatter here about it at the time.
polyorchnid octopunch
@James E Powell: this is unbelievably good news. Andrew Scheer will not be our next PM. Next question is, minority or majority?
Chris
The ultimate nightmare scenario is if he takes us out of NATO. Which he still very well might. Heck, I could even see him trying to do it in a fit of pique in January 2021 if he loses the election the previous November.
I wonder if the military has plans for the eventually that he tweets “great news, I’ve just ordered all our troops to pull out of Europe!”
Jeffro
It’s exciting that the latest installment of “What If Obama Or Hillary Had Done This?” is titled, “Picture a U.S. President Bumbling Us Into Military Conflict With a Fellow NATO Member Country?”
“…While Betraying Anti-Terrorist Allies?”
“…And Spending Most of His Time Watching TV & Tweeting?”
It’s tempting to ask Pelosi, Schiff, etc to NOT impeach this clown. 13 months from now he will be a bowl of orange pudding, whispering ‘phony emoluments’ to himself. Take that into the 2020 elections, GOP.
But alas: Dems care about the country first, and so Twitler must go a.s.a.p. Alas.
Another Scott
@Martin: The Access Hollywood tape came out October 7.
The weakening of the RNC platform on Ukraine was in mid-July.
Mattis was willfully blind about Donnie, and was more than happy to play Honorable Man.
Cheers,
Scott.
CaseyL
I remember similar debates about puling out of Iraq, and how US troops couldn’t just up and leave in a swirl of dust because they’d be under attack the entire time. Also that the withdrawal route would be easy to figure out, with more attacks and ambushes in store.
I’m assuming a similar situation in Afghanistan, with more troops there than were in Kurdistan/Syria.
Is there a reason the generals making the plans can’t say, No sir, can’t do it on your timetable, we’d take heavy casualties.
Jeffro
@Chris:
I think at that point, the Joint Chiefs slow-walk that until just about eternity, and let the long-overdue GOP civil war sorts itself out.
NotMax
@Adam L.Silverman
Who knew that the second word of “Warrior Monk” as one of the nicknames for Mattis actually referred to Tony Shalhoub’s Adrian?
:)
Yutsano
@polyorchnid octopunch: So don’t hate me for this but…I did go take a gander at the CTV website first. That was even more useless as they just had their talking heads blabbing. Do. Not. Want.
At first the CBC website wasn’t behaving, but it seems to be running now. Oh and tweeted a few Canadian peeps about the results.
mdblanche
@polyorchnid octopunch: CBC says minority.
NotMax
@Yutsano
Shorter election outcome: “Loonies, not loonys!”
;)
Adam L Silverman
@NotMax: He doesn’t really like that nickname. He hates Mad Dog. He tolerates The Warrior Monk. He prefers CHAOS, which is colonel has an outstanding suggestion.
Aleta
@Another Scott:
washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/04/17-issues-that-donald-trump-knows-better-than-anyone-e…
polyorchnid octopunch
@Yutsano: yeah CTV sucks. Not just talking heads, but dumb talking heads. It’s known as Conservative Television up here. There’s some real gnashing of teeth going on when the camera’s off them I’m sure.
Brachiator
@Leto:
The Democrats need to take Bernie down now before any primary vote. Bernie and his supporters see the Democrats as traitors to progressive purity and it is up to them to either purify the party or to replace it with some magical grassroots organization.
Marcopolo
We’re over 160 comments into this thread and no one but no one has mentioned the really important news of the day. No, not the election up North, plenty of folks are talking about that. I’m talking about the final trailer for the final Star Wars film dropping in the past hour. Here it is for your viewing pleasure.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer
To think I’ve been waiting since 1977 for this damned series to come to a close.
James E Powell
@polyorchnid octopunch:
Minority government. Libs can get to 170 with NDP or BQ, they don’t need both.
Adam L Silverman
@Marcopolo: Prepared to embrace disappointment.
NotMax
@Marcopolo
Pro tip: DO NOT bet the farm on that.
:)
polyorchnid octopunch
@mdblanche: this is almost certainly good news for Canada. The last time we had a lib-ndp coalition was during the Pearson gov’t in the late sixties. That’s when UN peacekeeping was invented by Pearson to deal with the Suez crisis, and the foundations of our modern welfare state were laid down.
Jeffro
@Marcopolo: @Adam L Silverman:
I actually had a buddy get cranked at me that I didn’t already know the exact release date, that the trailer was coming out, etc.
I suspect he’s one of the suckers who thought tickets would go on sale AFTER the trailer dropped. LOL
People, just catch it a day or two after Opening Day. Who cares?
Fair Economist
@James E Powell: It’s a relief that the Conservatives will be shut out of Canada’s government, but they have *got* to modify their FPTP system. Had the Conservatives gotten another 3% or so they would be able to form a government with 36% of the vote even though all the other major parties’ voters despise them.
polyorchnid octopunch
@James E Powell: won’t be the bloc; it’ll be the ndp, so long as dumb personalities don’t get in the way.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Fair Economist: true that.
NotMax
@Jeffro
Han shot first.
Brachiator
@Aleta:
Based on this I don’t think that Trump knows anything about football. Or basketball. Or cricket.
I never believed that he knew jack about the military.
He’s “that drunk guy in the bar” elevated to the presidency.
Mayim
@polyorchnid octopunch:
The French CBC (on our basic cable here in the Maine woods) is saying minority Liberal government.
The commentators seem fairly happy that the Bloc Québécois is going to possibly play kingmaker, if my somewhat rusty French isn’t failing me…. I was a bit surprised how much I still understand ~ but, on the other hand, election results are election results and the numbers look the same in both French and English ;-)
Leto
@CaseyL:
See @Aleta: comment at 171.z
@Marcopolo: @Adam L Silverman: Queue Bane’s speech about being molded/shaped… The series “closed” in 1983. There’s only three movies! (Queue Picard with lights)
Fair Economist
@James E Powell: With the forecast here it probably has to be Lib + BQ. Lib + NDP is only 167, although perhaps the BQ would let them govern. Not set yet, of course – a 3 seat shift is certainly possible.
Brachiator
@Jeffro:
You have no idea.
Leto
@NotMax: “I always intended the movie to have Bantha poo-doo, I just didn’t have the technology available at the time to make it happen.” – GL, poo-doo aficionado/purist
TS (the original)
I’ve been watching a little of Lawrence. All his interviewees/experts seem to be white men. The continual discussions that only a white guy can win for the democrats is enhanced by the media & their continual dependence on white men for political leads.
Hillary says one thing & they are all out with their attacks. Somehow, sometime, this HAS to change. Watching it all – it really was amazing that President Obama won in 2008. I keep wondering if Hillary Clinton could have won that election too – or is the US too steeped in misogyny for that to have happened.
Chris
@sdhays:
My thing with Mattis is that if I recall correctly, he’s been quite happy to embrace the notion of Iran as the hidden puppetmaster behind terrorism in the Middle East potentially up to and including Daesh.
Which is right up there with the early 2000s attempts to link Saddam Hussein to al-Qaeda and 9/11. And the fact that this was coming from a guy who used to be the head of CENTCOM, and should know things like the Sunni/Shi’a divide by heart, makes it all the more staggering – at least Dubya had the excuse of having never previously held a job that required him to understand anything about the outside world.
But it had me looking at Mattis and going “really? That’s the best we’ve got right now? That’s a bit concerning.”
Matt McIrvin
@Jeffro: I usually go to these big movies a week or two after opening, if I want to see them. Much easier then, and I can usually get some idea of whether they’re any good or not.
But I’m way less fanatical about spoiler avoidance than a lot of movie fans are. With most movies that are any good, it really doesn’t matter much whether you’ve heard the big secret twist.
CAinCA
@Fair Economist: @Fair Economist: I can’t see the BQ making a deal with anyone named Trudeau. Too much history.
Right now it looks like Lib+NDP will reach 170.
Also looks like Maxime Bernier did not win his riding. In fact, no wins for the People’s Party at all. Boo hoo. /s
Chris
@Marcopolo:
It came to a close in 1983.
NotMax
@Leto
“Served with fava beans and a nice Chianti, it ain’t half bad.”
:)
@TS (the original):
Varies by the day and by availability of people at that time of day, of course, but he very, very often has women and/or people of color on his show.
Adam L Silverman
@TS (the original): He had Mieke Eoyang on, who is an Asian American woman. And Mimi Rocah who is also a woman. He regularly has on Congresswoman Katie Porter, (D-CA). Who he has on on any night for any segment depends on what the segment is and who is available. For instance, of the Trump biographers, Tim O’Brien and David Cay Johnson, have contributor agreements with NBC/MSNBC. Of the other remaining ones, only one is a woman, and I think her agreement is with CNN.
Marcopolo
@NotMax: Yeah, yeah of the nonalogy or whatever the word is for a series with nine parts to it. I mean, honestly, after the first three I think I probably like Rogue One the best in terms of films in the SW universe.
But I really just dropped the trailer in cause I wanted to see everyone’s comments…and read about people talking about content that is not at all about anything in the real world.
In other film news, apparently Linda Hamilton spent a fucking year getting into shape for the new Terminator movie (which is dropping Nov 1) and the studio looked at her physique and decided they needed to enhance her tits & ass. No shit, here she is talking about it on the Graham Norton Show
Fuckem all.
Leto
Pompeo, asked about Turkey crisis, says Trump is ‘fully prepared’ to take military action if needed
So Pompeo says Trumpov is prepared for military action against Turkey. Fails to note:
– Turkey makes key critical components for the F-35, per the Industrial Participation program
– Turkey is still a NATO member, for whom Article 5 would apply
Batshit insane comments from Pompeo. Perfect Trumpov hire.
Matt McIrvin
@CaseyL:
They can say it, but if he gives the order anyway, and it’s not an illegal order, they’ve got to do it. That’s how civilian control of the military works. There are consequences to electing a shitty President.
James E Powell
@Fair Economist:
@CAinCA:
I’m looking at projections of Libs: 160, BQ: 34, and NDP: 24.
Another Scott
@Chris: +1
Warning – Politico: James Mattis’ 33-Year Grudge Against Iran
I’m actually kind of amazed that he didn’t manage to get a shooting war with Iran started. Maybe he mellowed a tiny bit after that article came out, or something. But his (historical) comments in the article made my hair stand on end.
Cheers,
Scott.
Brachiator
@Matt McIrvin:
Hitchcock tried to get people to keep quiet about the twist to Psycho. He was right. And that movie is a masterpiece.
NotMax
@Marcopolo
Gave up on the entire franchise after Phantom Menace, the middle hour of which I fell sound asleep for in the theater. Zero desire to ever go back to see what’s in that missed hour.
Leto
@Marcopolo: I liked Rogue One, thought The Force Awakens was a solid restart, enjoyed the lightsaber fights in Revenge of the Sith, but the rest of the post-OT have been trash. Regarding Hamilton, I’ve been semi-excited about the new Terminator movie mainly because she’s in it. I’m hoping that it’s a solid outing because she and Cameron are back with it.
CAinCA
@James E Powell: 170 seats are required to form a government. Lib+NDP is enough.
Goblue72
@Cermet: Precisley. Totebagger libs might want to tell themselves fairy tales otherwise but fact is we should have been gone a long time ago. And from Syria. That we were there in the first place was a sunk cost of the shitshow that was the Bush administration fiasco.
We were NEVER going to fix this. The only rational decision in the face of these sunk costs was to walk away and stop expending any more resources on these lost causes.
Trump in his lunacy is gonna do what Obama should have done.
Next up, if we’re lucky, President Brainworms decides to close Guantanamo.
Goblue72
@Brachiator:
…………………./´¯/)
………………..,/¯../
………………./…./
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
………\……………..’…../
……….”…\………. _.·´
…………\…………..(
…………..\………….\…
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wilmer was getting a lot of online heat by Яussian bots who were demanding he support Traitor Tulsi.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Goblue72: DWIGHT! How are things in your cubicle row? Ever get Donut Day reinstated?
Leto
@NotMax: Darth Sidious instructs Darth Maul to increase tariffs on Naboo-ian Gungan water sport balls, which the Jedi point can’t happen per article 2, subsection F, point 3.1.1 of the Naboo Gungan Water Sport Ball Treaty, ratified by the Senate ten years prior. That leads directly to the second move:
STAR WARS: ATTACK OF THE LAWSUITS
MisterForkbeard
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The thing that bugs me about all this is that I’m willing believe that Tulsi isn’t a knowing, participatory ‘asset’ but is just parroting and benefitting from Russian help.
Like, now willing to work for the Russians but happy to accept help in the form of bots, Facebook ads, etc.
Theres this rush to pretend Hillart was saying aues mustache twirling villain, which wasn’t the case.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
Difficult to see something you don’t want to see, especially if you look the other direction.
Chris
@Another Scott:
I assume he did a lot of chest-thumping about Iran simply because everybody did it, but eventually rose high enough in rank and responsibility to realize that, oh shit, I’m now one of the people who could very well actually do all those things that I’ve been trash-talking about doing to Iran, and it would be an absolute disaster if I did! I better dial it back a little.
But that still doesn’t speak especially highly of him.
Mayim
@James E Powell:
Current Radio-Canada [French CBC] prediction is 157 Liberal, 122 Conservative, 32 Bloc Quebecois, 23 NDP, and 4 Green, for a minority Liberal government.
Conservatives have 34.1% of the vote, Liberals 33.5%. NDP have 15% to BQ’s 8.7%.
Fair Economist
@James E Powell: The older prediction I was looking at must have had a number of not-yet-predicted seats. I’d prefer NDP+LIB myself, first for the policies, and second because the NDP is going to be very hot to fix the FPTP system, given that their votes are up from 2015 but they lost about half their seats. Just 24 seats for nearly 1/4 the vote is ridiculous.
That said, the fact that the Liberals get to choose their partner means they will be very much the dominant party in any coalition.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MisterForkbeard:
Like her new buddy Bernie, and Jill Stein, a useful idiot.
Jeffro
@Brachiator: Oh, I have some idea…but I’m just not engaging with these folks. The whole deal ended back in 1983 (that was when ROTJ came out, right? Everything else is just fan fic)
@Matt McIrvin: Same here on both the timing and not worrying about spoiler avoidance. Who cares? Give me a half-full theater on a weekday afternoon anyday…even if it is five days after the blessed movie came out…
Butter Emails
@Goblue72:
┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐
You’re an idiot if you think the rational decision was to (not really) leave Syria in the way we did.
1. Abandon the only ally in the region that would be pissed that we left
2. And as a result have thousands of ISIS fighters let free
3. And ruin any sort of reputation we have that we’ll keep our commitment
4. Actually keep a few hundred soldiers exposed guarding some oil
5. And troops aren’t actually being withdrawn from the Middle East. We’re just moving most of them to Iraq and Saudi Arabia, because that’s so much better.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jeffro: I’ve never seen a Star War without Alec Guiness in it. Not bragging or taking a stand, the first ‘new’ ones didn’t look appealing– the ones with Jar Jar Binks and, I’m told, a long scene of a galactic senate debate about trade routes– and I understand the more recent ones are a lot more interesting, but I wouldn’t know where to start or how to find the time to catch up.
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@MisterForkbeard: but how do you explain her willing assistance to Assad and gassing civilians. If she’s proactive in being asset for war crimes, then there should be a presumption that she’s a proactive asset elsewhere.
Ruckus
@Martin:
True.
Often charming men use that to stalk their pray, be it for sex, money, power or all three. It’s because charming works, people like it, and trust it till they find out that they shouldn’t have and then it’s usually the hard way.
Leto
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Where to start 1) discard the prequels because they add zero value and don’t advance the story 2) you could watch “Rogue One” which takes place just before Ep4, “A New Hope“, and explains how the Rebels got those plans! 3) don’t want to do 2? Watch “The Force Awakens”. Takes place, roughly, 25 years after Return of the Jedi. Watch “The Last Jedi” after TFA. Doesn’t take much time, each film is about 2 hours. Watch’em when you can.
chopper
@Goblue72:
dwiiiiiiiight! how’s it hangin, i thought you died in the fire i told you to die in!
Butter Emails
@MisterForkbeard:
1. Hillary didn’t mention Tulsi by name. She posited that one of the women in the democratic primary is being used as an asset by Russia and promoted by the GOP to be a potential spoiler by running third party. Everyone, including Tulsi naturally assumed that Hillary was talking about Tulsi Gabbard because she is the Democratic candidate of choice for Russian bots and the MAGA trolls.
2. Like you, I suspect Hillary was more talking about Tulsi being a useful idiot who likes to parrot Russian and Republican talking points than being on Vlad’s payroll or the subject of blackmail. Tulsi’s also willing to accept their support and signal boosting which probably leaves her vulnerable to their manipulations.
Ruckus
@MisterForkbeard:
TG isn’t a knowing asset?
Anything is possible but she talks the talk and jumped when HRC didn’t even say a name. Guilt by admonition builds a pretty strong case.
Another Scott
@Chris: You’re more generous than me. The Politico piece is from 2016.
He was a kook when it came to Iran. Maybe when it came to other topics as well.
Cheers,
Scott.
NotMax
@Leto
Low, low budget (purportedly made for 100 euros) yet moderately amusing and heart in the right place Terminator-type movie on Prime, Leon Must Die. Decent enough timekiller (pun intended) for when nothing else in the queue is tickling thine fancy.
NotMax
@Leto
Most, if not all, Star Wars films gonna be exclusive to the new Disney streaming service.
Leto
@NotMax: I shall give it a peruse! Yeah, all the Star Wars films will be on the mouse, as well as the Mandalorian series they developed. That’ll be ready launch day. Same with all the Marvel movies, for the people that want to catch up on those.
Edit: though for Jim’s purposes, I’m sure he knows someone who owns a copy of the movie, or he can ask the library for a copy. I know they’ll have a copy.
NotMax
Received a semi-frantic call from Mom today that one of the icons on her desktop screen had vanished. Just the one, and an empty slot where it had been.
She swore she hadn’t done anything (someone did – those puppies don’t go walkabout on their own). Ended up guiding her through how to create a new shortcut icon to replace the missing one.
Best guess is she had unconsciously put a stack of papers or suchlike on top of the mouse and perhaps jostled them and the cursor just happened to be in the right spot to delete the shortcut.
NotMax
@NotMax
Posted in wrong thread. Mea maxima culpa.
Ken
@Uncle Cosmo: That’s a better solution than the one I came up with, which would have involved some military general having this half of the conversation (a la Bob Newhart):
“Yes sir. A nuclear strike on Los Angeles, Paris, and Istanbul. But make sure the Istanbul bomb doesn’t damage your properties.
“I see.
:Of course, Mr. President, we’ll launch immediately. Please confirm using the Presidential Passphrase.
“The Passphrase, sir. We need it before we can launch.
“It was given to you on your first day in office, sir. I have the confirmation page here, with the Passphrase and your signature acknowledging that you committed it to memory, for confirmation of any order to deploy nuclear weapons.
“No sir, I’m not allowed to tell you how many words.”
David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch
@Another Scott: Funny how he had no problems “speaking out” when Obama was in office, but refuse to do so when Dump stabs a significant ally in the back and aids and abets ISIS.
Ken
@TS (the original):
Oh, the poor man. That means he’ll be getting a call from Trump, doesn’t it?
NotMax
@Ken
Nicely done.
Gvg
@Chris: I think we are in NATO by a signed treaty which means he can’t take us out himself. Treaties get ratified by a Congress at a time and signed into law by a President. Executive orders don’t cut it. Now this guy can find ways not to fulfill treaty obligations…he probably thinks he can, he can shame us and empower our enemies, but not legally just take us out….I think.
Brachiator
@Goblue72:
Coming back late to a probably dead thread.
Missed your comment earlier. Are you a Bernie fan? If so, we are going to have a lot of fun this primary season.
Chris
@David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch:
Oh, the military and its gloriously selective codes of conduct.
Reminds me of Colin Powell, who somehow managed to find himself in the middle of the My Lai investigation, the Iran-contra scandal, and the Iraq War without blowing the whistle on any of them, but when it came to the all-important topic of who his troops were fucking, suddenly found it within himself to lead a media campaign against his commander-in-chief.
And of course, as with Powell, the media swallowed the notion of Mattis as a man of unimpeachable integrity, patriotism, and apolitical service.
Mike G
@debbie:
I wonder if the “Support Tha Troopz” crowd, whose “Hippes spat on Vietnam Vets” fantasies were portrayed as the worst crime since the Holocaust, will hold this against Trump.
I’m betting on no. They don’t do principles, they do tactics.