Elizabeth Warren is on a tear. First, and best, she’s making those fuckers at Facebook defend their recent decision to let politicians lie in ads. Warren’s decision to put up some false advertising on Facebook is smart, and Facebook isn’t taking it well:
You’re making my point here. It’s up to you whether you take money to promote lies. You can be in the disinformation-for-profit business, or you can hold yourself to some standards. In fact, those standards were in your policy. Why the change? https://t.co/CE766Jpwoo
— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) October 13, 2019
Second, fucking Marco, saying a Marco thing in a Marco way:
Vividly captures the condescension of elites & their incessant ridicule of Americans with traditional values. It elicits glee among celebrities & blue check brigade. But for the millions sick of being disrespected it elicits support for fighting back,even in a crude or vulgar way https://t.co/uJgfyxMpUQ
— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) October 12, 2019
If you haven’t seen the clip, watch it–there’s nothing crude nor vulgar about it. It’s just smart and funny, in support of a political position that has widespread approval across the country. Never mind that irony died when a Trump lickspittle complains about another politician’s crudeness and vulgarity. A little while later, he’s whining at Trump about the Kurds in Syria.
As Turkish backed fighters approach a Kurdish held city in #Syria:
-700 #ISIS supporters escaped
-Erdogans forces are filming themselves beheading Kurds – U.S. troops are at serious risk of being cut off & of coming under attack by enemy fighters.— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) October 13, 2019
Marco is the little doggy that’s going to bark all day.
MattF
Trump has tattooed ‘LOSER’ on the foreheads of all the 2016 Republican candidates. I can’t honestly complain about that.
Frankensteinbeck
Assholes demand to be praised for being assholes.
WaterGirl
That should be a rotating tag.
NorthQuirk
Long time lurker here. If that joke by Warren weren’t coupled with her singing a racist Christian song, I might agree that it was a good response. Instead, it comes across that she thinks LGBTQ+ rights can be reduced to a joke. She doesn’t have as much of a history as an ally as other https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a26015639/kamala-harris-president-2020-healthcare-economy-gun-control-immigration/ but gets a LOT more fawning coverage. It’s troubling.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Yes, but this Rubio, who is not smart and funny.
Omnes Omnibus
@NorthQuirk:
?????
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m glad you asked, I’m curious, but…. there there be dragons
PJ
@NorthQuirk: Your nonsensical anti-Warren word salad makes me think you are not a lurker but a troll.
[Individual 1] mistermix
@Omnes Omnibus:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/11/elizabeth-warren-deadpan-quip-in-lgbt-debate-wins-plaudits
I would have thought that a song celebrating that fact that skin color makes no difference in the love of Jesus is the opposite of racism, but I’m clearly not watching enough Fox News or reading enough Breitbart.
tokyokie
@Frankensteinbeck:
That’s kind of what makes them assholes.
SiubhanDuinne
@NorthQuirk:
Huh? I don’t hear her singing any song, let alone a Christian song, let alone a racist Christian song.
SFAW
@NorthQuirk:
I’d ask if reading/listening comprehension was something you flunked in third grade, but that would indicate that I thought you were a moron, rather than just a troll.
Or a moron troll? Two-fer!
zhena gogolia
I’m so fucking depressed about the Kurds. So he’s already a king — he can just decree this, and nobody has anything to say about it?
Wapiti
I learned that song as “Red and yellow, black and white…”, but yes, it’s about all people being precious. It pairs well with the concept that “All (people) are created equal…”, in teaching young ones in this country.
zhena gogolia
p.s. I know I’ve joined in mild criticism of EW here in the past couple of weeks, but I’m swearing off criticizing anyone who could possibly become our nominee (not you, Bernie) for good. We are in a fight with pure evil. There’s no room for doubt or criticism. I’m not going to utter a word of criticism of Warren, Biden, Harris, Buttigieg, Booker, or Klobuchar from here on out.
CaseyL
The Never-Trumpers have their panties in a twist over it, because somehow ignoring Real Issues in favor of devoting an entire Town Hall to a something that isn’t very important anymore (did you know there’s no longer any discrimination against LGBT’s?) will convince some fence sitters to support Trump. Or not vote at all.
It continuously amazes me how they fine-tooth-comb anything Democrats do or say and claim that will hand Trump the election, while overlooking the enormity of Trump’s ongoing damage to the US and to the world. As if “persuadable” voters are primitive organisms who can only respond to simple stimuli, and have no agency of their own.
Chyron HR
@NorthQuirk:
“UH GUYS I’VE TOTALLY READ THIS SITE FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS AND I THINK IF WARREN IS THE NOMINEE WE SHOULD ALL VOTE FOR TRUMP DON’T YOU AGREE?”
You know, there used to be a thing called “subtlety”.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia: It comes under his power as commander in chief. Any president could do something like this; every other president has been too smart to do something like this.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@NorthQuirk: I thought Warren’s response was funny and real.
Both Warren and Harris are great candidates. Thankfully I don’t have to make my choice until May 2020…
WaterGirl
@Chyron HR: BRINKS TRUCKS FILLED WITH CASH! ?
Apologies for not having the exact wording correct.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
The GOPers bleating their distress isn’t enough for you? //
Erdogan is a monster, and the country he leads has a long history of being monsters.
Gretchen
@MattF: Speaking of losers, a Dem flipped a state leg seat yesterday in Louisiana in a district that Trump won by 43%.
gene108
@zhena gogolia:
Unless Congress wants its power to declare wars back, we’re stuck with Presidents basically having unlimited power to use the military, as they see fit.
NorthQuirk
@[Individual 1] mistermix:
Thank you for posting a link to this. I can’t find a video of her singing. I get that not everyone hears it as racist, but given how “red” and “yellow” were used as slurs when it was written, it seems like a terrible choice of an answer, especially given how anti-LGBTQ many Christian churches are..
MomSense
I’m fucking done. Calling Native Americans Red and Asians Yellow is racist. That song is Fucking racist. Roy Moore was rightfully criticized for invoking it during his Senate run.
Before I’m accused again of repeating right wing talking points, that’s not where the criticism is coming from. Republicans were fine with Moore singing this song. Many in the Evangelical community still sing it. That doesn’t make it ok.
Warren is a smart woman. She can do better. It’s ok to criticize her when she does stupid, racist shit. Buttigieg stopped saying stupid, racist shit because he listened to the criticism.
NorthQuirk
@SiubhanDuinne: apparently not everyone thinks this is a racist song, but I still think it’s a very dismissive answer.
https://twitter.com/SharnaAisha/status/1182602813672697857?s=09
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NorthQuirk: I flinched when I saw “Yellow” in MM’s cite, and there are surely less obscure and problematic ways to say “My faith teaches that we are all children of God” etc, but it’s a long and rather tortuous walk from there to
PJ
@zhena gogolia: One can express criticism of a candidate or their policies without tearing down that person. “You know, I think single payer is a bad idea because . . .”, “He just rambles when he’s speaking, and loses people, I don’t think that’s effective”, etc.
But too many people here repeat Republican (or Bernie Bro) talking points, which are almost entirely based on attacking the candidate’s character, because they think that will elevate the candidate they favor. It may make the commenter feel righteous for a minute, but it’s never persuasive, judging from the feedback they get from other commenters, and it only serves to give people a bad feeling and discourage people from voting for that person if they do become the Democratic candidate. How many people didn’t vote for Hillary in 2016 because they’d internalized Republican talking points over the previous 24 years? They couldn’t say why they didn’t like her, they just knew that they did.
MattF
@NorthQuirk: You’ve got enthusiasm about pie— that’s a positive quality.
zhena gogolia
@debbie:
Haha, I used the same word “bleating” to my husband just now. Great minds.
Cheryl Rofer
Ah, I see that our new troll is succeeding in
1) derailing the conversation to their trollness and now
2) promoting an argument about an old children’s song.
The second is the more damaging. It doesn’t even look like what the troll claims is true.
We’re going to have a lot of this through the next year, maybe forever.
DON’T FEED THE TROLLS
Not even to call them out. Ignore them.
ETA: MattF reminds me of the pie filter. Just put them there instantly.
zhena gogolia
@Cheryl Rofer:
Good luck with that!
NorthQuirk
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: thank you for your thoughtful response. On its own, I agree that it’s pretty funny. But with that song as another response, it reiterates that she’s not our strongest candidate on LGBTQ issues. Of course it should go without saying that she’d be an infinitely better POTUS than the current mess.
dmsilev
Re: Facebook, it’s worth pointing out (again) that the person in charge of designing and implementing their election policies is this woman. Lowlights from her employment history include:
*Chief Digital Strategist, National Republican Senatorial Committee
* Deputy eCampaign Director, Rudy Giuliani Presidential Committee
* Associate Director eCommunications, Republican National Committee
Basically, Facebook deliberately chose a Republican apparatchik to be their “Public Policy Director, Global Elections”.
Kelly
This aged well
https://twitter.com/AthertonKD/status/1183211402342752256
NorthQuirk
@MomSense: Wow, thank you. I thought I was @MomSense: Thank you! I agree that Warren is super smart and should totally know better. But apparently I’m a troll for criticising Warren.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I’m sure Marco sends thoughts and prayers.
NorthQuirk
@Chyron HR: thanks for letting me know that criticising Warren = supporting Trump. I thought we were trying to vet Democrats in this primary. My bad.
MomSense
@Cheryl Rofer:
Am I a troll, too Cheryl?
Maybe we have a problem with being a bit insular here. No, let’s not ever examine how we may need to improve our understanding of how our privilege changes our perceptions. Let’s just call everything we don’t want to deal with right wing talking points or trolling.
I’ve been called it many times here. Some may not remember.
H.E.Wolf
Full moon today, folks. Trolls and emotions are likely to be running wilder than usual.
A propos of nothing in particular:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_pie
Cacti
@NorthQuirk:
You must be new here to Warren-Juice.
zhena gogolia
@MomSense:
You ain’t no troll.
gwangung
@NorthQuirk:
Sorry, but no. You’re wrong. They might be now…but not then.
RepubAnon
@Frankensteinbeck: That’s it – we’re fighting for the rights of individuals to decide things for themselves, they’re fighting for what they perceive as their right to force others to conform to their worldview. Oddly, they claim we are the “elitists.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
this has become the default position of too many people here who want BJ to be their safe-space
zhena gogolia
To clarify, I’ve made a personal decision that I’m not going to criticize any of the serious candidates, just because I don’t want to add that to the atmosphere. But that’s just me. Other people can offer criticism without my regarding them as trolls. I’m interested in the whole discourse.
MomSense
@NorthQuirk:
I’m a preacher’s kid. I can assure you that song has been left well behind by progressive faith communities. It’s from the 1890s. Things have changed. We have better songs now.
mrmoshpotato
Rethuglicans whining about people being disrespected is so damn cute it makes me want to puke.
Hi political party who’s spent 40 years saying you’ll cut taxes, then once in power it’s “Ha! We never said we’d cut your taxes!” Seems pretty disrespectful to me.
NorthQuirk
I apologise. I didn’t realize that I link was in my original comment that makes it less coherent. I stand by my point, which was only intended to be a mild criticism of Warren. I don’t think she’s a bad candidate but I do think she’s got work to do about LGBTQ rights. I’m also clearly not welcome here and will go back to lurking.
prostratedragon
@zhena gogolia: Still, worth a try. Camel’s nose under the tent and all.
Cacti
I’m glad to know that Warren has a plan for every yellow chinaman and redskin injun.
And that the above characterizations are in no way offensive.
HumboldtBlue
Daaaaaaammmnnnnnn Liz!
And there is nothing I find funnier on Balloon-Juice than commenters getting testy over their preferred candidates. Nobody gives a shit, seriously, we’re more than a year from an election and nobody gives a flying fuck if you think Warren is super-duper or Harris is head of the class. Save that shit for Facebook. You’re not going to change any fucking minds here in the first place because every voter here will vote for the Dem candidate and it all reeks of self-important-wannabe-blog-punditry-try-hard-bullshit.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: Serious question: If someone says that they got their first exposure to the idea of equality from reading “Gunga Din” which is pretty damned racist or “Huckleberry Finn” with its frequent use of the “N” word, would you also object? Warren was referring to something that happened years ago that had a positive effect on her views.
Anya
Off topic but I didn’t think before now that the Trump supporters are as crude and as vicious as their leader, his performance in o e of his hate rallies confirmed that for me. I don’t know which hate rally but SNL showed a disgusting clip of Trump reading one of his incoherent fan fiction of Peter Strzok and Lisa Page’s text messages. WTAF? How does anyone not see this lunatic for the disgusting vulgarian he is?
guachi
As far as I’m aware, at the time the song was written it was neither meant to be offensive nor taken as offensive.
It’s like claiming the UNCF is racist for having “Negro” in its name. It wasn’t meant nor taken to be racist at the time and you’d have to be really reaching to call it racist now.
Context, people. Context.
mrmoshpotato
@CaseyL: BlueGal of the Professional Left podcast likes to mockingly call these fence sitters “Independents.” Yeah, like Joey Joe Joe Scarborough is now an “independent.” ?
Cacti
Fact: The Warren-Juice front page would be having synchronized fainting spells if Joe Biden had broken into the same song at campaign event.
debbie
@MomSense:
But she was talking about a song she sang back in the 1940s or 1950s, and she was using that song to say she was taught that every life is precious.
I can’t believe she’d use that kind of language now, but you can’t undo or erase the past.
Chris Johnson
@NorthQuirk: I like that the actual straight-up trolls working for Russia are forced to do the ‘literally make up weird shit and claim it happened in order to get people defensively talking about it’ strategy, apocryphally used by LBJ as the ‘make the sonofabitch deny it’ strategy.
Sounds like a leading Dem candidate is not a target-rich environment. That seems good.
Cheryl Rofer
@MomSense: No, you’ve been around a while.
There’s a difference between arguing points of view and trolling.
Notice how quickly our troll inserted a potentially divisive point – and we don’t even know that it’s something Warren did. Does anyone have confirmation that she sang that song? Or that it represented anything more than bad judgment if she did? Does it deserve a whole lot of discussion?
The whole approach – “longtime lurker” presenting a contrary point of view and then that divisive point, now lining up with MomSense to promote a fight – screams “troll.”
And now you can fight with me too. Yay troll!
We can express our differences in better ways.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: You mean the pallets of, umm, Iran’s own money?
debbie
@Anya:
That was at his Minnesota rally on Thursday night. Despicable, but maybe he’s jealous he’s never been coo’ed at.
errg
Wow, why not just take her at her word? This was a song that she heard and liked as a child (so maybe 65 years ago) that celebrated the value of all people?
Needless to say languages change, and if you were to write a song today to express the same sentiment you’d use different words…
Wapiti
@Wapiti: Apologies for the use of “red and yellow”. That’s clearly a blind spot I need to be aware of and work on.
errg
@debbie:
Or what debbie said….
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: the hate rallies have always been about the pure Id of rage-aholic white people. They were told they should be enraged when Obama took his coat off in the Oval Office, so they were, and can’t get enough of trump’s would-be stand-up schtick. White like me, dumb like me, crude like me.
Kraux Pas
Hey remember how dumb Marco Rubio is?
There’s nothing that screams elitist like defending a minority group against a majority with a lot more social and financial capital.
Frankensteinbeck
@Cheryl Rofer:
From my observation of the Obama years, especially around elections, the primary troll technique and goal is to change a conversation about how great any Democrat is to an argument about whether that Democrat is bad. It’s derailing to reduce enthusiasm, not actually convincing anyone. It is very, very effective.
Cheryl Rofer
And it looks like things are settling down. Thanks, all.
I’m very concerned about the disinformation we’re going to be seeing and will call it out as it shows up.
debbie
@debbie:
At the other end of the SNL spectrum, their origin story for Oscar the Grouch was pure genius!
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@NorthQuirk: It was probably a bad idea to make this your debut.
In better times, we asked new people about their pets.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
I don’t think it would be appropriate to quote the passages from Huckleberry Finn that are racist. That doesn’t mean I don’t think we should stop reading it or teaching it. It does take time to discuss it. It takes some history and some context. A responsible treatment of Huckleberry Finn would never be appropriate for a quick answer on a candidate forum.
That song isn’t one of the greats. It doesn’t say something unique that isn’t expressed by plenty of other hymns and songs. It’s also still sung typically in churches that are the opposite of welcoming or affirming to the LGBTQ community.
sukabi
@Frankensteinbeck: pretty sure E. Warren is “sick of being disrespected” as are all progressives, Democrats, liberals, LGBTQ, people of color, ect. When is Marco going to quit disrespecting > 75% of the US population?
zhena gogolia
@NorthQuirk:
You’re welcome here! I didn’t think you were a troll.
Zinsky
When Babyface Sweathog Marco Rubio talks about “elites”, he must be referring to those Americans with an IQ over room temperature.
Anyone who votes for this vacuous intellectual lightweight needs to have their head examined!
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus:
That’s my take too. I used to love that little ditty. I was a kid.
Cheryl Rofer
@Frankensteinbeck:
Indeed. And we can’t afford to be demoralized this time around.
debbie
@debbie:
Link.
Cheryl Rofer
@NorthQuirk:
If it acts like a troll and quacks like a troll, it’s a troll.
If you’d like to act like a commenter, you’re welcome here.
debbie
@zhena gogolia:
Universe, have mercy on me for quoting Oprah, but when you know better, you do better.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia:
But, in deference to MomSense, I would not sing it in a public setting (or private, for that matter) today.
MomSense
@debbie:
How welcoming was that church to the LGBTQ community when she was singing that song there 65 years ago? Why does she have to go that far back or to an offensive song to explain her faith?
Balloon juice is turning into a farce.
Peace out, Jackals.
Cowboy Diva
Regarding the racist Christian song: “Jesus loves the little children” was indeed intended to be a nod to Galatians 3:28 (“no longer Jew or Greek”), but these days a lot of people understand that the song itself did that very poorly. The fact that the 70-year-old Warren remembers fondly singing this song as a child in Sunday School–given that it is still a song sung by evangelical churches in the US–is telling, but only in the sense that racism is something so endemic to our culture the best we can do is name it and bear witness.
mrmoshpotato
@Kelly: There’s the door. Get out. ?
WereBear
It’s a fine line to walk and I don’t blame any candidate trying to walk it with some dignity and respect. Sometimes I have my own “Biden Moments” where I answer with something that was politically correct decades ago and no longer sends the signal I want to send.
Constantly updated in real time, that’s my goal.
Barbara
@NorthQuirk: I have no idea whether you are a troll, but the habit of criticizing women for not being perfect is almost always demonstrated by seizing on and magnifying the importance of relatively small things that people rarely even notice when it comes to men. In addition there are generations of people who actually sang that song thinking it was enlightened. No, not anymore, but judging people by a changed standard carries its own peril.
Anya
@debbie: his obsession with Peter Strzok and Lisa Page’s sex is super creepy. My god, how can anyone watch that and not think there is something fundamentally twisted and corrupted in this man. He is vulgar and shameless in a way that I’ve never experienced. I am disgusted and I wake up everyday hoping that more Americans see what I see, alas, we have to accept that 40% of this country is as soulless and as crass as him
Chris Johnson
*googles* Oh. Yeah, that tears it, I’m convinced.
Tax the churches. We clearly haven’t got enough separation between church and state, and the church influence is clearly deleterious :)
hilts
Fuck Marco Rubio, he’s a gutless, weaselly pissant who’s never had an intelligent or constructive idea in his entire pathetic political career.
Sister Golden Bear
@Omnes Omnibus: The intent of the song was good. The specific language “yellow” (and “red” in the original version that Warren didn’t quote) is problematic AF. Warren could have referenced it without actually using the language.
That said, it’s a minor gaff, which could be acknowledged and apologized for, and nowhere near as problematic as Biden’s bizarre “gay bathhouse” comment, especially when he said it was happening 15 year ago. I mean on, the bathhouses were generally closed at the beginning of the AIDS plague. 15 years ago Harris was marrying gay couples. (Not stanning for Harris, just using that as an example of how times were different.)
Barbara
@MomSense: You are kidding right?
JR
@zhena gogolia: The easy solution is to pie those who engage.
Harsh but effective.
something fabulous
@WaterGirl: if only there were a quick and easy tool up in here to do that! ?
A Ghost To Most
@MomSense: But people have NO idea why Baud left. The pie filter progressives have instituted their hive mind.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I wonder if people at Facebook realize what they’ve unleashed on this country. But I tend to believe that Mark Zuckerberg is a different kind of a sociopath. He really doesn’t care that his platform is amplifying hate and crudeness and will normalize Trump for generations.
PJ
@MomSense: Christ, you’re definitely a troll, and an asshole to boot. You alternately spread Republican talking points and an insane purity pony perspective. How many institutions of any kind were welcoming to the LGBTQ(IA – how come you aren’t inclusive of them, huh, bigot?) 70 years ago? None. Zero. What does that have to do with anything?
She’s quoting the song to explain that as a child, 70 years ago, she was taught that all people are equal in the eyes of God. She’s not advocating that anybody sing that song today, or join an evangelical church today. But you’re whole schtick is making disingenuous attacks to tear someone down, taking words and acts out of context and ignoring the substance of what is being said.
zhena gogolia
@JR:
I don’t pie anybody. I find it easy to scroll.
hilts
@Anya: @debbie:
Trump is a degenerate and serial predator. He commits so many outrages each day that the media simply can’t keep up with them.
This new book exposing more details about his depravity should be receiving greater press coverage but is getting drowned out by all the impeachment coverage
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a29391247/donald-trump-assault-allegations-karen-johnson-all-the-presidents-women-book
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Cheryl Rofer: Hi Cheryl – IMHO it is concerning that you, a front pager, are leading this “troll hunt” based on an assertion that is incorrect. Regardless of what one might think of it (I thought it was somewhat effective), Warren referencing that old cringe-inducing ditty wasn’t made up.
When uncle Joe says something potentially cringe-worthy, we get to talk about it. But in this case, the commenter is pied-and-feathered, while you question whether or not Warren even said what she did (without bothering to Google first).
Poor form. I understand that we need to combat disinformation, but we can do better as a community.
Signed, Formerly disgruntled
P.S. I miss Baud
Jim, Foolish Literalist
the desire for power for power’s sake, divorced from any other consideration, brought to a new technology. “I’m rich and powerful because I deserve to be rich and powerful, therefore I deserve more wealth and power.” Jamie Dimon, Mitch McConnell, Jack Welch, Rex Tillerson… to some degree Mitt Romney.
ETA: Oy. I”m outta this thread. I hope MomSense comes back, Baud too, and people really do need to calm down with this “You’re spreading Republican talking points” shit. All our candidates are flawed. People are scared and nervous and we’ve got to get this right. If you can’t address their concerns without pretending they’re invalid, that’s a really bad sign for 2020.
PJ
@Anya: They know. Even the Facebook employee, who, in 2016, was crowing about how she helped Trump win the election, has come out with a mea culpa book.
All Zuckerberg cares about is money and power. If the US becomes a “shithole country” because of it, so be it.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@PJ: WTF?
Omnes Omnibus
@PJ: She is not a troll. She is a long-time commenter here. Her commenters are almost always thoughtful. Fuck you for joining the new game of calling anyone who disagrees with you or the consensus here a troll. You aren’t a troll, but you are being an asshole.
opiejeanne
@[Individual 1] mistermix: It’s misquoted. “Red and yellow, black and white” is the line, and your interpretation is the one I understand.
HumboldtBlue
Uh-oh, I bet Warren plays this song at all her campaign events! You know, the black one hates the yellow one and the fat one hates the skinny one! Just sing along with the refrain, “scooby-dooby-doo” and you’re golden!
Or, or, let’s go play some awesome rock and roll, let’s start with Dire Straits and “Money for Nothing” so we can all laugh at the faggot with the earring and the makeup (and get a little racism in there as well)
Hell, let’s get Eddie Murphy in here to describe how he was introduced to gay folks in Los Angeles. You know, the faggot on top of the police car acting as the siren? That was in 1985, not 1890.
Huh, I bet it would take me less than 15 seconds to find an entire musical genre dedicated to songs about killing and maiming gay men, it’s known as murder music.
So yeah, let’s have a big fucking purity party and hold a series of month-long meetings to determine who is and who isn’t pure enough to cast a ballot for whoever becomes the Democratic candidate and if that candidate is pure enough to represent our very sensitive sensibilities.
Cacti
@Cheryl Rofer:
Just to let you know, new person, Cheryl doesn’t actually decide who is welcome here or not.
Feel free to ignore her completely.
mrmoshpotato
@debbie: Wow. Three cheers for whoever wrote that.
Fair Economist
@Gretchen:
That made my week.
PJ
@Omnes Omnibus: Her behavior is trollish, and I explained why. While you are just your normal dickish self.
Kelly
@[Individual 1] mistermix: As a child growing up watching the 1960’s civil rights battles I sang the hymn as a rejection of racism.
prostratedragon
@hilts: My god, we actually begin at the Kit-Kat Club! It just amazes me how many animated neon signs have surrounded this fucking guy (his new name from me, no caps) without enough people catching on to what a 5-alarm incident he is. Or enough of the people who could have stood in his path.
Starfish
It is so interesting that Warren is a front runner now, and people are attacking her from the left on Twitter with issues that are not even registering with most mainstream folks.
There have been attacks coming from people saying that she never worked with black people even though the person working as the head of her whole Nevada campaign is black, even though she has someone working on African American issues, even though she has a separate person working on Native American issues. That issue did not pick up with the mainstream.
Then there is the attack on Warren for talking about the church she grew up in. That attack is based on the fact that the church she grew up in is still anti-LGBTQ. I am not sure what Warren is supposed to do here. Invent a time machine and go back and make sure that the church that her family is a part of becomes progressive in the future? A lot of churches are still anti-LGBTQ, and though being religious seems to matter to some people in electoral politics. It matters less now to the general public. I mean, I think politicians are still going to make a show of it because churches are communities, and communities are bases of support for politicians.
NorthQuirk
@Cheryl Rofer: Thank you. I’m sorry that my comment landed so poorly. I don’t think Warren is a bad candidate. I’m just frustrated that she’s getting a lot of praise for one part of her responses at the LGBTQ+ town hall when the rest of her responses were not so good. It’s overshadowing better responses from the other candidates. LGBTQ+ rights are really important and deserve better coverage.
Anya
Let’s not accuse people of being trolls just because you haven’t seen them before or you disagree with them. There is always a first time. And in our quest to weed out ‘trolls’ we become close minded and paranoid. This is the primary, people should be allowed to critique candidates without accusations of being a GOP operative or a troll.
Chyron HR
@Cacti:
What do you suppose it says about Ol’ Handsome Joe’s “electability” that his supporters are demanding the party overturn the primary results and declare him the nominee before the primary has even started?
Fair Economist
@Frankensteinbeck:
Yes, it’s a sad truth that people believe what they hear most, not what stands up to analysis. So trolls win by changing the conversation.
And I will point out that if there’s anybody to develop regulations on social media to reduce trollish exploitation, it’s Warren.
Elizabelle
This place is becoming a fucking parody. Wake up, folks.
And yeah, I think it’s very possible for a longtime commenter to employ troll tactics. Have been seeing a real uptick in that behavior in the past month.
There is a real campaign afoot to divide Democratic voters, particularly about the two female candidates.
Look out for it. And don’t think the Russian trolls and other malefactors haven’t figured out to put objections in the mouths of apparent members of the LGBTQ community (or pretenders), or feeding it along. On the assumption that some purity pony types won’t look too closely at that, or are not familiar with the community.
Follow some of rikyrah’s tweets back. Maybe those are real individuals, and maybe they are not. Do you know how to tell them apart?
Someone here brought up Joy Reid mentioning that many young black males were being encouraged not to vote in 2016. I don’t remember the specifics, but how did that work out for us all.
Fair Economist
@Starfish:
I think they’re expecting her to borrow Obama’s time machine.
Cacti
@Chyron HR:
I don’t know. How is he polling with yellow chinamen and red injuns?
Starfish
@NorthQuirk: What part of the LGBTQ+ forum did you like the best? I think Warren’s part was clipped and turned into a meme, but I did not watch the forum because I am not actively doing work on those issues and have not been as supportive (as in providing meaningful support) as I should be.
debbie
@PJ:
Your first paragraph is very, very wrong.
opiejeanne
@Cheryl Rofer: Warren did sing that song. I saw it in the longer version of that appearance, after she made the joke. The MC asks her another question while everyone is still laughing, including her and she calls him a joy kill, then laughs and tells him to ask the question. That’s when she sang the song.
Fair Economist
@Elizabelle: My interpretation of some trollish behavior by long-term commentators is that it’s easy to get taken in by the trolls. Here’s an article from Progress Pond (the update of BooTrib) on exactly that.
PJ
@debbie: It is based on what she wrote here and in other posts recently.
Marcopolo
@Starfish: Yeah, really.
Anyone recall Barack Obama & Reverend Wright?
It’s all in “how to the slime the candidate you don’t like playbook” just recycled for this election. I’ve said in a number of threads I’d hope people on this blog are intelligent & sophisticated enough not to do this shit but the evidence shows me there will always be those folks who either haven’t learned the lessons of the past (if they’ve been through this before) or are new the way the game is played and never witnessed them. Wise up.
debbie
@hilts:
You’re right. That book should be all over the airwaves.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Starfish: I’m pretty sure that she hasn’t been back to that church in years if not decades. What does that have to do with anything?
Brachiator
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon:
Wait. What? I have been away from most of the Internet due to massive work related projects. What happened to Baud?
James E Powell
@Starfish:
Brings back memories of 2015.
Elizabelle
@Fair Economist:
That’s what I think is happening too. I can see it.
HumboldtBlue
@Brachiator:
I’m with ya, this is new to me.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Brachiator: No one knows. He had words with Adam about something, commented sporadically for about a week, and disappeared.
HumboldtBlue
Oh, and Happy Birthday United States Navy!
And fuck Navy! Go Army!
PJ
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: MomSense was criticizing Warren for having gone to that church as a child:@MomSense:
Brachiator
@NorthQuirk:
Who is, and why?
Elizabelle
@PJ: MomSense is not a troll, but I agree with you that hers was a ridiculous comment.
Kraux Pas
@Chyron HR:
When did this happen?
Lalophobia
For what it’s worth, I’m 30 and my Catholic grade school used to have us sing that song. and it probably wasn’t the only one. So I don’t predict much, if any outrage being inspired by this. And I do think there’s a difference between sighting something problematic and just using its language regardless of context.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@PJ: You sounded like you had a pattern of behavior to base that on. First-time posters don’t have a history to fall back on, hence the concern about trolling. She doesn’t have a history of trolling.
opiejeanne
@Barbara: (I didn’t get that memo)
Zelma
I am at a loss to understand what is so terrible about the ditty Warren referenced. Sure, we don’t use some of those terms any more. But what’s wrong with the sentiment that all children are precious in God’s sight? I learned it 70 plus years ago in Sunday School and the message was almost counter-cultural then.
The worst thing about this discussion is that I now have that damn song playing in my ear and I can’t get rid of it!
Brachiator
@Chyron HR:
Biden probably won’t be the nominee. But it is good that he is taking some heat from Trump, and better that he is fighting back and weakening Trump.
Marcopolo
@NorthQuirk:
So here’s a comment from a thread on October 11 which is really similar (not saying you wrote both just noting this seems to be a similar concern out there which is echoing):
Here is my response:
No one here is stopping you from highlighting a response at the forum that you thought was great. So please do it. I’d really love to hear more folks talking about why the candidate they support is awesome.
WaterGirl
@MomSense: Please remember that it’s one person who said that, and most of us here do not agree with what was said.
Kelly
@Zelma:
Same
PJ
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I used the term “troll” because further up in this post she said “So I’m a troll now?” or something to that effect (I have wasted far too much time today on this crap to look), and in this post and a previous one today she was making arguments that I thought were disingenuous and based alternately on GOP talking points or purity pony arguments. I did not mean to imply that she was a paid operative of the GOP, the Bernie Sanders campaign, or Russia’s IRA, nor that she lived under a bridge and would turn to stone in daylight.
But the fact that I am bothering to explain this and have bothered to get worked up about this to respond to MomSense and comment on it endlessly is a good sign that I should sign off for a while. See y’all in the funny papers.
mrmoshpotato
@HumboldtBlue: Mixed messages there, hehe.
Mandalay
Yep. Here he is whining that that the nasty press misrepresented his comments when he said Trump wasn’t serious about asking China to investigate the Bidens:
Rubio richly deserved his skewering for spewing a Republican nonsense talking point, which has since died an ugly death. But he still wants to exhume the corpse and relitigate the whole brouhaha.
Please proceed Senator….
Brachiator
@Zelma:
OK. I have not read all the comments here, but the “controversy” is over the song “Jesus Loves the Little Children?”
Sorry, this is not worth getting worked up about. Hard pass.
Elizabelle
@Brachiator: Yes. That is what is going on.
sukabi
@NorthQuirk: perhaps highlighting the comments / answers from the other candidates you thought were good would be a more positive direction…and get traction with more folks…
Just a thought.
Ruckus
@PJ:
True.
But they are doing this by trying to lower their opposition’s character down to their level and then giving their candidate and their party points just for being something that makes no difference, say a certain religion or a member of their party. They rarely if ever try to raise their opponents actual positions.
It is all character assassination.
Cheryl Rofer
@Anya:
I worry precisely about this. There is a balance between recognizing disinformation and paranoia.
But our new commenter showed all the signs of trollery. It’s possible that someone new might just be socially awkward in that way, but the effects (derailing the conversation and starting fights) were immediate.
We don’t need new commenters who derail conversations and start fights. I don’t care whether they’re from the Internet Research Agency or Nebraska.
Elizabelle
@Cheryl Rofer: I think NorthQuirk is a troll, and you called it properly.
I also think there is a massive disinformation campaign — via Facebook and more likely Twitter — aimed at people of color and the LGBQT community. You can see its tendrils here.
Mandalay
@MomSense:
Well said! It’s so lazy and moronic to label posters as trolls, and doubly so when they have been posting here for years, as you have.
You see it all the time. Post something negative about Sanders or Gabbard – nothing. Post something negative about Warren or Harris, or something positive about Sanders or Gabbard, and the “troll” accusation surfaces, no matter how long you have been posting here.
Or even worse, the condescending “Republican talking point” dismissal, as though even valid criticism of Democratic candidates can’t be spoken because it’s playing into Trump’s hands.
Some of the snowflakes posting here are beyond parody.
Colleeniem
I really like how we are mainly not talking about the far more insidious problem that warren intentionally highlighted with more that a remark (with money and strategy) about facebooks refusal to take responsibility for disinformation.
Elizabelle
@Colleeniem:
Thank you. Forest for the trees, people.
HumboldtBlue
Here’s a dirty fucking liberal I regularly disagree with signing into law another solid piece of legislation that will help out those of us who are categorized as “working poor” or “lower-middle class.”
Brachiator
Coming back to Little Marco’s Twitter nonsense:
The sad thing is that Trump supporters who “love the troops” don’t really understand how Trump’s idiotic decisions put US forces in harm’s way. And worse, they don’t give a shit about the Kurds and would probably yell and scream if anyone suggested that we take in Kurdish refugees.
Trump is incompetent, completely worthless when it comes to both domestic and foreign policy. Way back when, one of my biggest fears was that he might drag us into a war. But instead there was the slow erosion of foreign policy. Alienating our NATO and other allies. Now, he has abandoned the Kurds and put them directly in harm’s way. All of our post WW2 alliances are unraveling and Trump thinks that just having the biggest, or most expensive, military will work as a substitute. The Democrats will have much work to do in repairing this mess.
opiejeanne
@Zelma: Here’s a better ear worm:
That’s Not My Name
sukabi
@Colleeniem: I think Warren’s directly targeting FB with that ad was the perfect move on her part, she’s forcing an acknowledgement of their responsibility for their platform / policies.
zhena gogolia
@Kelly:
Same! The only thing worse would be “It’s a small world after all.”
hilts
@debbie: @prostratedragon:
It’s become increasingly difficult for me to tell the difference between Trump and a patient who has escaped from the lock down unit of a psych ward. Somewhere in the universe or multiverse there must be a gold lame straitjacket with Trump’s name emblazoned on it.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@sukabi: I thought it was bold of her. Good.
Bobby Thomson
I think they planted the story that this was the result of a one-off phone call. We shared intel with Turkey before they started the genocide. And at a minimum, Lindsay Graham was in on it, and his more recent protestations are an act. When the Russians prank called him pretending to be Turkey, he went on about how the Kurds were a “problem.” When people start calling groups of people problems, they start thinking of solutions..
Amir Khalid
@zhena gogolia:
It’s a Small World After All triggers some memories from school that I would rather forget.
Chris Johnson
@Elizabelle: There absolutely is, and you don’t see it as much here and you don’t see it as directly here. But the whole IRA Russian paid troll operation is very real and if you have large Twitter or Facebook social circles it’s guaranteed you’re soaking in it: that’s literally how it works.
People here don’t have to be literally Russians to be parroting literally Russian propaganda. It’s the job of the Russians to locate communities (on Twitter, they self-locate: a place like here, you’d have to actually visit and see what people talked about, which is not impossible but not worth more than one or two people part-time, max)
Once the community is located, you do this trolling stuff, and try to tear down absolutely everybody and everything. That’s why it’s better for people to be obvious partisans because if your message is to believe in something (even if it’s misguided) that’s different from the Russian troll tear-everything-down tactic. The thing is, it’s like ‘The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street’: driving wedges is socially effective.
Bobby Thomson
@Brachiator:
Sounds about white. It’s racist to call Asians “yellow.” It’s not even descriptive.
And the real bitch of it is, for years I didn’t realize how offensive it was because it was in that song people sang in church and by gum, they wouldn’t do that if it was racist or not OK.
Also, too, it was part of her bullshit answer about not remembering her stance on gay marriage when she was voting for AIDS denier Ronald Reagan twice.
Elizabelle
@Bobby Thomson: Bobby, I want you to find proof that Elizabeth Warren voted for Ronald Reagan. Twice. She has said the last Republican she supported for president was Gerard Ford.
You said it, so it is time for you to provide written proof that EW voted for Reagan. Private ballot and all.
Go to it.
opiejeanne
@Elizabelle: I follow a number of Twitter accounts of black people supporting Harris, some of them gay, and I’m seeing an awful lot of posts by people I don’t recognize that are very harsh in their criticism of Warren, some of it unfair, and lumping white women into the criticism of her. (yeah, yeah, Not All White Women).
I’m a big fan of Harris and worry that she is being purposely ignored by the media, but watching this tearing down of one other candidate is distressing, watching them act like Purity Ponies. I worry that it might be a push to suppress the black vote in the general.
There is one other thing that is troubling. At a Warren event they introduced Gillum and everyone cheered. Until he referred to Hillary Clinton as the President, and the room booed him. They booed him because he called Clinton the legitimate winner of the election. This is Bro behavior and I hate to see it in Warren’s campaign, and while I know she said some hurtful things about Hillary, I hoped this wasn’t going to be a theme of her candidacy.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Zelma:
Oh good, I’m not the only one.
Bobby Thomson
@Zelma:
It’s racist.
Right. Because they’re racist.
Disingenuous AF. That’s like saying Camptown Races is fine because it’s about a horse race.
Elizabelle
@opiejeanne: The whole thing is heinous.
And stop that Bro behavior at the outset.
It’s all to tear us apart. And it works.
Bobby Thomson
@Brachiator: Harris is hands down the best candidate on LGBTQ issues. Even better than Buttigeig, who has similar constraints to those candidate Obama had. She performed the first single sex marriage in San Francisco. She personally started the drive to shut down the gay panic defense. Her first campaign manager was Harvey Milk’s manager, who described her as “gay royalty.” As a child, she marched in pride parades. She has said she will appoint a White House advisor on LGBTQ issues. There’s lots more. Her experience is broad and deep.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Amir Khalid: Hmmm, at least you didn’t grow up as a regular visitor to Disneyland.
Mike in NC
@Brachiator: Trump has essentially always been an isolationist. “America First” is better understood as “America Alone”. He’s opposed the existence of NATO for many years and was scornful of our relations with Japan and South Korea, and that was before he outed himself as Putin’s puppet. The upcoming rebirth of ISIS must be firmly hung around his bloated orange neck.
James E Powell
@sukabi:
Every Democrat ought to repeat and reinforce her point. Facebook’s brand ought to be tied to Trump, racism, misogyny, and foreign interference in American elections. They promote all these things.
Amir Khalid
@Bobby Thomson:
You need to remember that this song was written in the 1890s. You wouldn’t describe an Asian as yellow now (said the brown Asian) but it was in those days far less hostile than some of the other epithets then in use. And in context, the intent was clearly anti-racist. So lighten up.
Ruviana
@[Individual 1] mistermix: U too wondered if this was the song. I’m a bit younger than SPW but I learned the song around age 7 and I very much wanted to know more about those other kids. I didn’t care too much about the Jesus part. Merely noting that children were of different races is hardly in itself racist.
Elizabelle
@Amir Khalid: I am just getting sick of this place, Amir.
I would miss you.
I am sick of the purity ponies. I cannot live in that world.
schrodingers_cat
@MomSense: Well at least no one said that your account was hacked, like they did when rikyrah posted some critical tweets about she who must not be criticized
Starfish
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: She keeps mentioning the church by name as the place where she learned her moral values. She is providing them with advertising and elevating their visibility by doing this.
satby
@Amir Khalid: seriously. Historical revisionism isn’t just for right-wingers. And in the 1890s, only 25 or so years out from our Civil War, it was probably considered radically egalitarian. Can’t say for sure, because I wasn’t around then, though intensely stupid discussions like this one became make me feel that old.
Redshift
In an attempt to salvage something from this thread, is like to point out that Rubio isn’t accusing Warren of being crude and vulgar. He’s saying that being “disrespected” causes support for “fighting back, even in a crude and vulgar way.”
So even though he’s too wimpy to mention Trump, he’s saying “it’s *your* fault we have Trump and a base that loves him, because you didn’t respect people’s wanting to use their religion to tell LGBTQ people not to exist.”
(I guess since Trump has a monopoly on “I know you are but what am I?”, Marco is making a grab for “why are you hitting yourself?”)
Lalophobia
@Mandalay:
Am I supposed to see a problem with this?
opiejeanne
@Bobby Thomson: To what end, though? What advantage do they gain by claiming it was a single phone call? Does it look less conspiratorial by making Trump look like more of a craven moron?
Brachiator
@Bobby Thomson:
Not really, but thanks for trying.
You’re late to the party. The song was written in 1913 and some folks started softening the lyrics to make it less objectionable to any who might be offended years ago.
Again, it just is not a big deal.
opiejeanne
@Elizabelle: And there it is, right there, the accusation that Warren voted for Reagan. That’s one of the things she’s being accused of.
Litlebritdifrnt
I am dealing with my Mother’s estate right now. She has a life estate in my late step father’s house so my step brothers and sisters are hovering. My step BIL showed up at the front door on Friday, luckily my Sis and BIL were outside and basically held him off and told him to wait while we sort things out. Tonight I was in the kitchen and a man was outside looking in the kitchen window. I did not recognize him but he scared the crap out of me. DH went out and looked around though he found no one threatened to kill anyone that comes back again. He is going to sleep in the living room tonight. I hate this shit.
Fair Economist
@Bobby Thomson:
Multiple reporters pointed out that this kind of operation by Turkey requires extensive advance planning. They were ready to go before the call.
Brachiator
@Bobby Thomson:
Good background. Thanks. I’m voting for Harris in the California primary, but truth to tell, pretty much all the candidates (except Bernie) are all right with me.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@schrodingers_cat: Can’t speak for anyone else, but I objected to her promoting someone who was talking about not voting in the general if the wrong person was the nominee.
I hate that shit from the Bros, and I hate it from anyone else.
Elizabelle
@opiejeanne: Yup.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Litlebritdifrnt: Oh my. That sounds incredibly stressful on top of the loss of your mother.
Elizabelle
@Litlebritdifrnt: How frightening. Can the local constables be of any help? This stuff might go on more than we know.
Thank dog for dear husband.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Brachiator: That’s about how I feel too. I went into this with Harris as my first choice, but I’d be happy with many of the others, and would vote for any of them.
Fair Economist
@opiejeanne:
Yes. It means the real story is worse. The real story is something like a deliberate plan to release terrorists to give the fear machine something to run on, with deliberate assistance within the Trump administration. (Not saying it’s *that* specific plan, but it’s something monstrous, with intentional assistance by the Trump administration.)
Sab
@Bobby Thomson: Asia is huge. It stretches from Israel and Russia in the west to China and Japan in the east, and south through India and pacific islands.
Asians are as many colors as Americans.
prostratedragon
@Kelly: Heh, so that’s at least 3 of us.
I’m a few precious years younger than Warren. Was about 6 or 7 when we had the song in Sunday school. I had 2 thoughts at the time. First, yeah, it was kind of corny. But second, I was just beginning to learn that there were a lot of adults whose moral thinking hadn’t got even to that level, so maybe they should have it taught to them.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Starfish: That’s not good, especially if it keeps up after the hypocrisy is pointed out to her.
opiejeanne
@?BillinGlendaleCA: We went once a year, the first time in March of 1956. My dad always thought that ride didn’t belong, when it was added to the park, so we only suffered through it once growing up. Maybe a second time as a teen. Our kids dragged us on the ride once. Just once. It was enough. The only cool thing about that ride is the clock on the outside when the hour changes (I think it does stuff every 15 minutes, but I don’t remember).
An older adult relative who was like Forrest Gump without the charm, without any charm, had us take him to Disneyland (long and stupidly hilarious story). He insisted we go on the ride because he didn’t quite get it when he had gone on it one time previously, when he was 16.
opiejeanne
@Ruviana: What are the SP in front of W for?
Citizen Alan
@Starfish:
Yesterday, I’d have thought it was a ridiculous caricature of the “anti-Christian Left” to suggest that to be viable, a Democratic nominee must repudiate the church she attended as a child. Today, I’m depressed to see it’s actually a view that some left wingers hold.
Brachiator
@Mike in NC:
Good points. Also, Trump has a deficient moral and political sense, and simplistically sees the world in terms of temporary business partners, not allies. So, he can fawn over Saudi Arabia because the country is worth billions in potential deals.
And on top of all this is his weird affection for dictators and authoritarian leaders all over the world.
Trump and NATO reminds me a bit of the ancient Delian League. Originally founded to ally various Greek states against enemies such as Persia, it came to be dominated by Athens, the superpower with the most ships, which bullied other members about payments and demanded that they be subservient to Athenian interests. This did not end well.
Ken
@Elizabelle:
Worse, it’s a parody of The Monsters are Due on Maple Street.
“They pick the most dangerous enemy they can find, and it’s themselves. All we need do is sit back and watch.”
Redshift
@Fair Economist: Stephen Miller gave away the game on that a couple of days ago, taking about how any IS fighters who escape can be stopped at the border:
https://twitter.com/BrianKarem/status/1182730403368620033?s=19
schrodingers_cat
@opiejeanne: Senator Professor as coined by fanboi and Balloon Juice favorite Charlie Pierce,
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Citizen Alan: If the church is anti-LGBT, it’s a reasonable question. I’ve got a similar story, but I wouldn’t leave out the point where I realized that the adults didn’t believe what they were teaching.
Elizabelle
@Ken: It is sad to see.
Ruviana
@opiejeanne: As SC noted, it’s Charlie Pierce’s nickname for her. Has been for awhile and I see it in use elsewhere. Kinda like “zombie-eyed granny starver” for Paul Ryan, also from Pierce.
Ruckus
@hilts:
I’ve seen the inside of a locked down psych ward. But no one was a sick as the asshole smelling up the WH, they were only military personnel back from Vietnam.
opiejeanne
@Fair Economist: I think I need to throw up now. Dear God, it’s even worse than I thought and the news of what is happening in Northern Syria is so very terrible, while that orange asshole golfs. The videos of women holding their dead children and he golfs. Our allies being butchered while he golfs. He doesn’t care that the Middle East may be overrun by ISIS, or that Europe may face the same fate.
J R in WV
@guachi:
Yes, indeed. And what about the NAACP — still in the business of advancing freedom for nearly everyone of color, yet still using a very old fashioned word in their title.
opiejeanne
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks. I missed that somehow.
rikyrah
I am going to say this for the bleacher seats. While there might have been some voters of color that stayed home in 2016…
The number of regular Democratic Party voters who were denied the franchise due to Voter Suppression in 2016 was at least THREE TIMES the size of Dolt45’s “margin of victory” in each of these states.
Tim Wise (@timjacobwise) Tweeted:
Stop fetishizing white working class voters in PA/MI/WI. They’re NOT the key to victory. Trump won those by 73k votes. It’s easier to mobilize 100k plus POC who stayed home in ‘16 than to flip that many Trumpers. Flipping means admitting u voted 4 a monster. Folks wont do that. https://twitter.com/timjacobwise/status/1183146247848448002?s=17
Elizabelle
@J R in WV: Burn them all!
This kind of shit is going to get us … nowhere good. Just divided.
How are the puppies? Resting from their escape artist ways?
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@rikyrah: Amen to that!
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: It’s true. Voting rights. Make sure we have a fair vote, reduce gerrymandering, and I like our chances.
MomSense
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
Actually I have been accused of being a troll here many times, during the Drone Wars, regarding Wikileaks, the Greenwald Snowden mess (even when Greenwald was saying horrible things to one of our former front pagers), and other times. Say what you want but I think my record says I have never been afraid to hold unpopular opinions and they usually turn out to be more right than not.
satby
@rikyrah: sweetie, no one here is in the bleacher seats. We might feel different Democratic candidates resonate with us, but no one commenting on this blog doesn’t understand either the racism, voter suppression, or the stakes in the next election.
opiejeanne
@rikyrah: I agree with Tim Wise, saw his tweet earlier today.
I also agree with your comments on voter suppression, especially of POC, and it’s still happening.
opiejeanne
@MomSense: Who did Greenwald say nasty things to?
Kent
@zhena gogolia:
Wait…what’s wrong with “It’s a small world after all”? Did that one turn racist too without my noticing?
Peale
Write me if we’re still arguing about the homophobia of the Democratic candidates in a week. And the lefts fear of Liz Warren’s “Once a GOP Voter always a Goldwater Girl” imaginary beast. I’m done here for a bit.
PST
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nothing could be more true. I turned 66 this weekend. Growing up in an all white small town in the Midwest in the 50s I seldom met anyone who wasn’t white and seldom heard a word, positive or negative, about other races. The overwhelming whiteness of the environment hid a structural racism that made commentary superfluous, and no one that a small child was likely to hear was preaching a message of equality. One exception, one that still resonates after all these years, was singing “Jesus Loves the Little Children” in Sunday school and church. In a world of almost total silence about race, that song offered a simple message that came through loud and clear. I understand completely how EW could regard it as formative. Parsing it for racist implications by today’s standards is anachronistic.
Sab
@rikyrah: My parents voted for 50 years at the same school down the street. I voted for 10 years at the same church up the hill. Ever since then our voting place has changed at every election, and is at least 5 miles from my house. I ususally have to google it, but I have a car. Getting to your voting place by bus (no longer walking district) before or after work is no longer possible.
This has been a really drastic CHANGE FROM NORMAL in the last 10 years in Ohio.
Just Chuck
I can’t believe you stupid motherfuckers are screaming your heads off at each other over a fucking hundred year old childrens song about equality. You seriously need help for your emotional problems.
Just Chuck
@MomSense:
I look forward to your next raft of opinions on the subject of pie.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@MomSense: And I think you have enough of a history here that the accusation is unreasonable on its face. It’s clear that your purpose here is not causing fights.
The same doesn’t apply to a first-time commenter who starts a fight.
NotMax
@opiejeanne
At the ’64-’65 NY World’s Fair, where that exhibit debuted, one could hear that damn song from a block away.
SFAW
@Ruviana:
Pierce based it on Scott Brown’s perpetual “Professor Warren” attempted-slam on Warren during her first campaign. The (assumed) “thought” process was “Hur hur let’s paint her as an out-of-touch elite liberal academic.” Didn’t work out quite as well as Scotty hoped, I guess.
SFAW
@NotMax:
The cheers coming from Shea didn’t drown it out?
opiejeanne
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Yes, but it eventually looked like a rookie mistake after he continued to post. I think his outburst was triggered by frustration. I can understand that.
prostratedragon
@HumboldtBlue: Good for them! No child should be subjected to the “one meatball” treatment. Why this is not universally obvious is for another time.
opiejeanne
@NotMax: That’s terrible. Bank of America funded the damned thing. I should have ditched them years before I finally did just for that.
Kent
@Just Chuck:
My sentiments exactly. The real problem with the “all the little children” song is not the colors, but the underlying assumption that all these “children of color” around the world who are Muslim, Sikh, Buddhist, etc. actually need saving by the white Christian Jesus. I come from a family of a lot of missionaries and they some of the most blindedly racist folk you will ever meet in their sublime assumptions that everyone who hasn’t “met Jesus” is in need of saving. And their implicit (and explicit) denial of the humanity of everyone else who doesn’t share their theology.
Ken
@Kent:
Hell’s own earworm, with extra treacle.
Immanentize
@Bobby Thomson:
There is nothing in this paragraph that is not either disingenuous or wrong.
What Warren said is that she could not remember a time in her life when she felt differently than she does now about gay people. Which is just about the opposite of your version.
And the “she voted for Reagan” thing was dealt with previously. I urge you to not steep yourself in the hot take Twitter versions of “things that happened.”
zhena gogolia
@Kent:
Not as far as I know, it’s just a terrible earworm.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@opiejeanne: Yes, but the context was my asking why someone was calling MomSense a troll.
NotMax
@SFAW
Know you’re being jocular, but the then new stadium was not all that close to the fair exhibits proper, being relatively far on the other side of the railroad and subway tracks.
Immanentize
Are there voters out there who maybe are older and voted for Trump and are at least a bit sorry they did who are also maybe lifelong Christians who understood Warren was making a point about acceptance in a specific way that they hear and therefore make them feel more comfortable voting for her?
Hmmm, probably not.
Does anyone here think the church ladies of the south that are critical to anyone’s chances in the primary are having hate fits about that part of what she said? Or that it was part of the sermon of every minister in all the churches this morning?
We are not the electorate.
Another Scott
@MomSense: I heard the lyrics, a lot, on the radio around 1970. It’s in a Ray Stevens song, “Everything is Beautiful”.
It’s not ancient history.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
opiejeanne
Upthread somewhere, someone was bitching about wanting Balloon Juice to be our safe space. I’m not sure what’s wrong with wanting that? I admit that I’m one of those, because this place has kept me sane despite the occasional spats and far worse.
I miss BAUD.
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: I know, I can’t understand the fucking obsession with trying to win the WWC vote when the obvious fact that voter suppression is keeping POC from voting is staring us all right in the face! We’d be *much* better off battling voter suppression than chasing Cletuses (Cleti?), because white people’s voting habits frankly suck, and we are unreliable allies.
MomSense
@Just Chuck:
I make Fucking awesome pies.
Another Scott
@guachi: +1
Cheers,
Scott.
germy
@Another Scott: And Ray Stevens has gone full RWNJ.
Sab
@Kent: I remember reporting that said that that (“It’s a Small World”) was the earworm alarm that Iraq’s commercial trucks under Saddam Hussein blared when they backed up so that they wouldn’t squash small children. Hard to hate the tune after that unless you hate small children.
Also I am so old that I remember attending the NY Worlds Fair where that was the Disney theme song. I was small. It made me feel special.
HumboldtBlue
@prostratedragon:
Agreed. The idea of shaming children for a free school lunch is on par with a society that freely allows for the imprisonment of fellow human beings for profit. California gonna stop doing that as well.
Eureka City Schools announced before the start of the new year every child who attends a Eureka school gets lunch for free.
Leto
@opiejeanne: As other’s noted, Charlie Pierce came up with it. Stands for “Senator Professor” Warren. SPW or EW is how I usually refer to her in shorthand to friends.
prostratedragon
@SFAW:
“The cheers coming from Shea didn’t drown it out?”
Not often. Looked it up because I recalled that it was Casey Stengel as an early manager of the Mets who made famous the phrase, “Can’t anybody here play this game?” 53 wins in 1964, 50 in 1965
NotMax
@Miss Bianca
That suits have not been filed citing the relevant part of the 14th amendment continues to befuddle.
*superseded by the 19th amendment
**superseded by the 26th amendment
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy: I blame “The Streak”.
columbusqueen
@debbie: yes, it should. I’ve been convinced for a long time that Shitgibbon is a child rapist, including his eldest daughter.
Leto
@Miss Bianca: Remember back in 2016 when the GOP bragged about voter suppression before the general? Top Republican Official Says Trump Won Wisconsin Because of Voter ID Law: The law blocked thousands of Wisconsinites from voting in 2016, predominantly in Democratic-leaning areas.
North Carolina was the same way. Throw in Georgia. At least Stacy Abrams is leading the fight there.
opiejeanne
@Leto: And thank you and everyone else. I’m well-informed on this one subject now. :-)
EW was obvious, at least to me.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Sab: It makes me smile because of one of my favorite scenes from Hogfather.
NotMax
@opiejeanne
Yeah, I often wish folks wouldn’t use abbreviations such as those (and blithely assume everyone knows what they stand for). It’s not like we’re gonna run out of pixels.
:)
?BillinGlendaleCA
@NotMax: I guess you haven’t heard about the new tariff on pixels.
Another Scott
@germy: Lots of white people did as they got older, including my best friend from high school. :-(
Doesn’t change the point I was making.
It’s not a racist song, and wasn’t citing lyrics from a racist song. People use terms that acquire different meanings over times and in different contexts.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
SiubhanDuinne
@NotMax:
Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off.
Bill Arnold
@MomSense:
:-)
My favorite is bluebarb pie. Rarely seen in the wild, it’s half and half blueberries and rhubarb, lots of sugar, roughly the Joy of Cooking berry pie recipe, with pre-made crust because I’m not good at crusts.
germy
@Another Scott:
I wasn’t challenging your point, I just remembered seeing a RW Ray Stevens video.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@SiubhanDuinne: And Scaring The Cats
Another Scott
@germy: Thanks. Sorry if I came across as combative.
Cheers,
Scott.
zhena gogolia
Buttigieg is strong on Syria:
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1183412116105187328
germy
@Another Scott: In my advanced years, all kinds of trivia bounces around in my brain. Ray Stevens going full wingnut is one of them.
HumboldtBlue
@HumboldtBlue:
Oh, and they also get free breakfast and a free after-school snack.
germy
Government can’t afford free subways, but can pay cops to stand around watching for fare jumpers.
J R in WV
@Elizabelle:
The puppies are learning a lot, fast. Thursday I took BooBoo, the girl, to the vet for the first time. She was quivering with fear going in, but calmed down especially when I got her back home. Some puppy barf in the back seat.
Tomorrow both BooBoo and CooCoo, the boy, are going back to the vets, both will have minor surgery, spay and neuter, and CooCoo will have some vacccinations and an inspection/ heartworm test, etc.
BooBoo has a tick-borne bacterial disease which will be treated by Doxycycline, the name of which I forget, not Lyme Disease. They are great puppies, affectionate and gentle, tho a little loud just now when a helicopter flew over.
I’ll send some pics soon, they’re really cute, especially BooBoo who has more markings than CooCoo, who is glossy black with a small white blaze on his chest. BooBoo is glossy black too, but has more non-black features than her brother. They are really close, lay around on top of each other, sweet.
TS (the original)
I’m so late to the thread – but pleased to see that Marco admits his party has become crude and vulgar. Imitation their dear leader
J R in WV
@Ken:
Wife and I got to see Disney World on press day, the day before it opened to the general public, so not as crowded. Downside was some features were still being reworked, like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea and whatever the Mountain exhibit was back then.
But we didn’t know anything about any of the rides, so we did them all.
Small World was terrible. And here just a couple of years ago at most I read that some people were stuck in there — one poor guy was a wheel-chair bound person and couldn’t be evacuated by the rescue team and their boats. He was in there for hours while that song repeated over and over. Fate worse than death? no telling, but horrible.
My favorite was the Haunted Mansion which seemed the best realized of them all.
Ladyraxterinok
@SFAW:
I learned the Sunday School song Jesus loves the little children of the world as a kid in OK as well. I find it adamantly NOT racist.
I have seen recently an internet campaign claiming it is blatantly racist. Do not understand claim.
debbie
@Bill Arnold:
Anyone who makes their own crusts is fucking awesome.
I always use store-bought, but wish there was one that was as good as homemade.
J R in WV
@Bill Arnold:
My fav is pecan pie, but made with real Maple Syrup instead of the corn syrup called for in traditional recipes. With vanilla ice cream on the side, it cuts the richness of the pie itself.
ETA: I also love sour cherry pie a whole lot !!
Sallycat
I attended church two times before I was six. This song was sung both times. I liked it because I could remember the words. Later when I heard and saw all of the racism coming from everywhere in the mid-sixties, this song came into my head occasionally, and it somehow bolstered my rejection of racism. I grew up in the south, in a racist family. I guess I latched onto any phrase that did not support the racists, and I had no notion that using terms red and yellow to describe people was demeaning. I would hate to have a phrase from a song I sang at age five be used to define me or my beliefs.
mrmoshpotato
@SiubhanDuinne: LOL
mrmoshpotato
@Bill Arnold: Wait. You can add other things to a rhubarb pie aside from strawberries?!
Where’s my fainting couch?
Ladyraxterinok
@MomSense:
As I’ve already said, I just don’t see this song as racist. I grew up singing this in Sunday School, and as to me as a little kid it emphasized Jesus loves every child, even ones some don’t want in our school or church.
I think kids at time Warren and I learned the song were totally unaware of what some now perceive as the background.
I see it as a bit of true Christian message getting imparted to kids in non-Christian congregational environments. Pretty sure many in the congregation didn’t believe Jesus loves everyone and thought it was just a cute kids song. But a subversive message was being picked up by some kids! I was definitely one
Emma
@MomSense: For God’s sake. She says she sung it as a child and that she learned from it that all people of all races are equally valuable. What is wrong with that? Have we decided that we can only learn in ways approved by the sensitivities developed in the last twenty years?
J R in WV
@debbie:
I sometimes use premade crusts, but I can make a fine crust on my own.
Tips, put all the tools in the fridge, or even the freezer if you can get them in there. Sift the flour a couple of times before you start, and keep your butter (or lard, really good for pie crusts!) ice cold as you prep to mix the crust.
Wife gave me a heavy marble roller for crusts, I keep it in the freezer when I’m getting ready to roll out a crust. The bowl, the pastry cutter, all ice cold. Sift the flour into the ice cold bowl, drop in the stick of butter, cut it into the flour with an ice cold pastry cutter, add either ice cold water or frozen vodka (or ice cold local home made white liquor) to help the crust pack together.
Then roll it out and lay it into the cold pie plate. Keeping the fat chunks cold and whole in the crust is what makes it flaky after being baked. If they melt, not so crusty. For some pies you need to pre bake the crust.
Then pour the filling into the crust. and bake according to your pie recipe. The Joy has pretty good instructions. I’ve also seen pro cooks making pies on a cooking show I was part of the crew. The cooks were extension agent educators, and could do anything food related without a moment’s pause.
Leto
@J R in WV: Agreed; I will always find room for a slice of pecan.
Saw that line and immediately thought of: Dr. Horrible’s Sing-Along Blog – Everyones A Hero. Want catchy “ear worms”? Watch the whole thing. “Bad horse, bad horse, bad horse, he’s bad!”
debbie
@J R in WV:
Have you made piecrust with vodka? I find that method intriguing.
PenAndKey
You know, it’s depressing when I come late to the party and read an article pointing out Facebooks’s latest run of propaganda only to find the comments very quickly devolve into trollish behavior and complete derailment.
You folks do remember that’s the topic of this post, right? This happened, with nearly methods, the last time an article like this was posted.
debbie
@Leto:
If you like pecan, you’ll love Maida Heatter’s chocolate pecan rum pie.
Msilaneous
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Oh, so do I!
Sab
@J R in WV: If a marble rolling pin is not available, an old wine bottle with a cork works. I fill mine with icewater.
I had a wooden rolling pin when I was young, but I kept breaking off the handles. I’ve had my wine bottle for at least 35 years. Works fine. Always cold from the fridge.
Also wax paper or parchment paper for rolling. Martha Stewart may be able to roll directly from a floured board to a rolling pin to a piepan, but normal people can’t. My guess is her crusts photograph well but are tough to chew. Roll onto parchment paper with cold dough and a cold roller.
TS (the original)
Well I should have just added my late to the thread comment – and not read the rest. One person derailed the thread completely – with support then coming from a few others who will always join such a derailment. Marco received few of the responses and yet he deserves to be laughed and pointed at continuously. To state that it is now a valid response to be crude and vulgar is beyond belief but the whole thread fell into discussing a song that most haven’t heard in years because let’s attack a female democratic candidate.
Well done to the trolls.
schrodingers_cat
@debbie: I do. I use a food processor though. The vodka works great. I also use ice cubes and cold butter.
NotMax
@SiubhanDuinne
TYVM.
:)
Sab
@Bill Arnold: Sounds delicious but not very locavore. Rhubarb is late spring, bluberries late summer.
But it does sound delicious.
ETA: Darn. I want that NOW.
Sab
@Leto: My favorite earworm is the narwhal song ( because he is so awesome.)
J R in WV
I have used iced vodka, but haven’t had trouble with just using ice water.
I’m inclined to drink iced vodka, so that’s a minor problem…
Sally
@zhena gogolia: I would be happy to criticise Dems in a respectful and positive way if they say anything on policy I feel needs to be criticised. So far, zilch, as I like to see the floating of different ideas to see how they are received. Like M4A, Beto on gun laws. Seeding these truly progressive policies is the only way to move the electorate forward and develop even better policies. I don’t (publicly) critique their campaign styles as I’m not qualified to know the underbellies of campaign politics. Though I nash my teeth in private when I think they aren’t aggressive enough. But then I’d be in gaol for punching people.
NotMax
@J R in WV
(talking to the dough)
“That’s one sip for you, one sip for me. That’s two sips for you; one, two sips for me.…”
:)
Sab
@NotMax: Won’t end well. Put pie in oven, pass out, burn down house.
Ladyraxterinok
@PST:
Totally agree! You said it much better than I could.
RSA
Discussion of red, yellow, black, and white made me think of this:
Sometimes people employ a jocular pidgin English, saying “Me no likee” or “Linkee no work.” For readers of Chinese descent, this is an annoyance, in that it derives from phrases like “No tickee no washee” as a stereotype of the Chinese immigrants; it’s comparable to using “Jew” or “Welsh” or “Gyp” as a verb, I think. It’s not universally disliked, but I thought this might be a useful PSA.
debbie
@schrodingers_cat:
My sister-in-law’s mother makes really great pie crusts with her eyes closed, but I could never get her to try vodka. I was curious to see what an expert thought of the method.
Ladyraxterinok
@Bill Arnold:
Never heard of this combination before. Sounds great!
When I lived in IA, we had a large rhubarb patch. I became the ‘queen of strawberry-rhubarb pie’!
debbie
@Sab:
The theory is that the vodka adds liquid which makes the crust easier to handle, but evaporates (unlike water) so the crust won’t be tough.
Sally
@Chris Johnson: Tax and regulate, like all businesses.
NotMax
@debbie
Sidebar: Vodka works great for removing the residue left from those fershlugginer labels affixed to glass or plastic housewares.
Ladyraxterinok
@J R in WV:
Friends of in-laws in Utah had sour cherry trees. We’d get to eat some of their partly unfrozen sour cherries when we visited. Incredibly good!
SFAW
@NotMax:
Was going to explain why I wrote that, but prostratedragon pretty much encapsulated “the nub of my gist.” The Mets, before 1969, finished in either 10th place in the NL (1962-1967) or 9th place (1968), so there weren’t a lot of cheering at William A. Shea Stadium in 1964 or 1965. Not even for the Jets. [Well, maybe for Namath and Maynard, after 1964, but …]
[For the kids among you: there used to be only 10 teams in each major league, and no divisions.]
FelonyGovt
@NotMax: Goo Gone works well too and you don’t waste good vodka. :)
SFAW
@Bill Arnold:
I was a latecomer to appreciating strawberry-rhubarb pie. I’ll have to check into the bluebarb. Thanks for the pro tip!
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Obligatory
NotMax
@Ladyraxterinok
Sour cherries? Meggyleves.
JR
@zhena gogolia: Well sure, I do the same, but for those who can’t resist
Odie Hugh Manatee
I’m reading this thread with the ongoing derailment and sowing of dissent here and all I can think of is Trump, Republicans and Russians while our allies are dying and here it’s all about a child’s song from long ago. Fucking idiots.
Carry on…
debbie
@FelonyGovt:
Right! Also rubbing alcohol.
Sab
@debbie: Well I trust you so maybe.
Spouse has been dramatically on the wagon for 25 years, so probably not okay for his pie, but baking would get rid ok alcohol so maybe okay.
Actually that makes sense. I get to use wine in cooking since it boils away. Does it leave an aftertaste? I thought vodka has no taste. Interesting possibility.
Leto
@debbie: *channeling his inner Taki* Oh my! Post that again around Thanksgiving please!!!
Gin & Tonic
@debbie: That theory has no empirical foundation. Last year I took a pie-baking class at the King Arthur baking school in VT, and this was debunked, based on their experiments.
Leto
@Sab: I’ve found that after the second shot, vodka definitely has no taste.
NotMax
@Leto
Which is why one drinks the second shot first!
:)
mrmoshpotato
@Leto: I bookmarked it while going Mmmmm.
Bobby Thomson
@Odie Hugh Manatee: It’s a primary.
Bobby Thomson
@opiejeanne: Yes.
JR
@HumboldtBlue: I mean, the French national anthem, still performed today, is mostly about killing Austrians.
Gvg
@Kent: oh lord. I don’t think so, but it is a notorious ear worm that drives people batty. In addition, I grew up in Orlando and that particular Disney World ride was infamous for breaking down so you goat to sit in place in a boat while poor quality speakers replayed the same part of the song over and over again AND the cute robot puppet dolls did the same moves over and over….Elderly relatives visiting from out of town loved it. Every relative we had visited us when we lived in Orlando. After a few years my parents started sending me with them as a native guide. My younger sister’s first job was in the restaurant over looking that ride and she heard that song on a loop for 8 hours a day all that summer. I can’t express how far my family will go to avoid that song but it’s bad.
NotMax
OT. Just sneaked out to check on whether some (relatively) quick fix handiwork I performed earlier today for landlady on something in her garage is holding. Looking good.
*cautiously pats self on back*
topclimber
This might be the last word on Warren’s hymn because you want to save the best for last.
Time to think outside the troll box folks. How about we upgrade the lyrics to modern standards rather than dwell forever on the shortcomings of our ancestors?
At a first stab, let’s change the offending lyric to say kids black and brown and pink and mixed.
Pink is how many Asians describe white people, and of course has a genderized meaning. Mixed refers to gender choice as well as pigment. It also moves the white comfort version of the Overton window a bit; Most of those decent people singing a century ago surely loved children of other races, just not as members of their family.
Doug R
@NorthQuirk:
I would like to thank you for making my Sunday School RETROACTIVELY racist, even though it was sung in a spirit of inclusion.
Doug R
@Cheryl Rofer: As a front pager, can you tell if NorthQuirk and MomSense are sock puppeting each other?
Zelma
Damn song is still playing in my head!
Omnes Omnibus
@Doug R: Don’t be an asshole.
Rand careaga
@J R in WV:
True story: on my third visit to Disneyland fifty years ago this month (previous visits: 1957 and 1965) I and a high school friend sensibly decided to augment the experience with a nice thumping dose of LSD. Big fun—except when he urged us (did I mention “deranged?” I didn’t?) to go on that stupid ride, which indeed stalled for almost twenty minutes, which I know because I was wearing a watch. It felt like much longer as we sat there in the fucking boat while those hideous manikins warbled the “Small World” song at us over…and over…and over.
I did the Magic Kingdom half a dozen times after that, each time but the last in an enhanced state, enjoying the experience enormously. The last time, in 1973, I took it straight, found it unutterably dreary and depressing, and have never been back.
Miss Bianca
@Leto: Stacey Abrams is a true heroine. She knows the score, and she keeps her eye on it.
JR
@debbie: use shortening if you need a cheater crust. Still better than store made.
Bill Arnold
@TS (the original):
Nyms noted, and yeah looked at some histories. (If it was intentional it was expert.)
My response, a little odd and rambling, got eaten by WP because it contained at least one forbidden word.
@Sab:
Anyway, thanks to MomSense for launching the pie(-filter) (meta-)discussion. We should talk about pies more, to tease the pie-filter users. :-)
NotMax
@JR
Preferably not fish flavored.
:)
hat tip to J R in WV
Doug R
@Omnes Omnibus: The rhythm of their comments felt weird, like it was the same person.
Miss Bianca
@Doug R: I have a really hard time believing she would do any such thing.
Omnes Omnibus
@Doug R: I stand by my previous comment.
frosty
@Rand careaga: Your tale of the ride on acid is true? I’ve told this to friends as an apocryphal story that I’d heard but couldn’t back up. It would have been about that time, late 60s early 70s. You’ve made my day!!*
* You’re probably not the only one in that era though, LOL.
Jerzy Russian
@germy: I made the mistake of watching a few of his videos on Utube. Holy crap! I haven’t listened to him again.
Brachiator
@topclimber:
As I noted earlier, this has already been done numerous times. But some people need an outrage bone to gnaw on.
Elizabelle
@opiejeanne: I was a little timid about responding to your comment earlier, and I should not have been. What you said:
Thank you. I am seeing that too, and (1) it’s horrible behavior; (2) although she has nothing to do with it, it could blow back badly on Kamala Harris; (3) notice how Warren and Harris get along very well together at appearances — it seems to me that their supporters could very easily support the other — and that is what this shit on twitter and Facebook is meant to delay or even outright prevent.
WRT the second: no one should be booing Hillary Clinton. No one. Nobody has any use for any BernieBro shit.
Last: I am seeing a lot of derision aimed at white women. Who are a big part of the Democratic base. Always.
Divide and conquer.
It must be visceral. It is certainly overriding some commenters’ critical thinking skills.
Bobby Thomson
@Elizabelle:
A majority of white women always votes Republican. Not as many as white men, but a clear majority. The gender gap is entirely a result of overwhelmingly Democratic voting by WOC.
52-53% of white women voted for Trump.
56% of white women voted for Romney.
53% of white women voted for McCain.
54% of white women voted for Junior Bush.
You get the picture. Of course Democrats need all the votes they can get, but the notion that white women should have a larger voice because they reliably vote Democratic is patently false.
So when white women go into Black women’s feeds and try to tell them what they can and can’t say in a fucking primary, they’re going to get called out.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Brachiator: Considering the song’s intent so obviously anti-racist and the objection fits the conservative talking point that the liberals are the real racist I say troll on this one. This is the level of Beeves and Butt giggling at words they don’t understand.
Bobby Thomson
@Elizabelle:
It’s a primary, god damn it. That means you compare your candidate to the others. Warren has no record of civil rights advocacy. Not even claiming to have “marched with King.” She centers white people in her campaign. Those are facts.
Bobby Thomson
There’s also a fair amount of resentment because Harris quite clearly was the target of a Russian organized disinformation campaign beginning in the Spring, and no one else said anything. Tulsi “Favorite candidate of Putin, Assad, and Republicans” Gabbard fucking vomited a Gish Gallop of lies about her record and no one came to her defense. But now everyone rallies around Biden and around Warren (who didn’t even back up Harris on getting Trump kicked off of Twitter and instead took a cheap shot). So yeah, after some initial harmony gloves are off.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
So we at the everyone is upset that Jesus and Buddah isn’t running, like they were in 2007 and 2015? I assume the Never Bideners/ Warreners/ Harrasers and issues their manifestos and per standard procedure with the Left?
I am curious when why so many people don’t get a democracy means things only happen by group consent, which means working with people you don’t always agree with and not some friken Hometown Buffet were you get only what you want . I mean if you want dictatorship by one man; there’s Trump.
Elizabelle
@Bobby Thomson: Hey dude. I am still waiting for the proof that Elizabeth Warren voted twice for Ronald Reagan.
You said it. Back it up.
Elizabelle
@Bobby Thomson: You and people like you are going to blow this blog up, aren’t you?
I believe in working with people and building coalitions. You sound like you are all about labeling and spite. Fuck you.
texasboyshaun
Once again, the trolls, purity ponies, and Russian desinformtsiya will break our party’s power. The only good thing I can say about the GOP is that they actually have each other’s backs. Instead, we Democrats have to deal with being shivved by our own “allies”. I appreciate everyone who is a supporter of LGBTQ+ rights, because as a gay man it can be a life or death issue. But too many liberals and leftists also want me, Warren, Buttigieg, etc., to just STFU about being Christian. Why? Because you hate people that don’t believe just like you.
I lurk here a lot, and have for a long time, because I appreciate some of the commenters and FPers here. But far too many of you are vicious, bitter people, so I know better than to poke my head up and be a frequent commenter. And that’s a damned shame, because you are bullies, just like the Republicans you hate so much.
Now excuse me, I’ve got to go back to registering voters and not sitting in a circle jerk with a bunch of miserable old assholes.
Matt McIrvin
@RSA: It was only very, very recently that I realized the phrase “Long time, no see” was probably originally intended as fake-Chinese or Native American pidgin along those lines. Been avoiding it since.
Villago Delenda Est
Rubio is such a fuckin’ putz.
Another Scott
Twitter:
I hope that people realize that reposting that clip only strengthens the meme.
:-(
(via nycsouthpaw)
Cheers,
Scott.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@RSA: The “linkee” I think is obvious. I more often see it as “Link no work, you fix”, which makes me think of Master Blaster from the third Mad Max movie. Which might still trace back to pidgin, but did make some sense in context.
Another Scott
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I never made the connection before.
:-/
Cheers,
Scott.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@texasboyshaun:
Eh, I’d hate everyone, then. I mostly just hate the people who preach Moloch and call it Christianity.
If the reports are true, Warren should be prepared to answer questions about her childhood church if she’s going to keep bringing them up by name. At a minimum, favorably bringing an anti-LGBT church into the conversation at an LGBT event is tone-deaf.
Sally
Reading the Pew Research data from the 2016 election, my broad understanding is as follows.
The biggest movement in voter prefs was among non college educated men, from Dem to trump. His change was 7 points more than Romney and 13 points more than McCain, so a big shift. Women’s overall share stayed about the same as for Romney.
trump won non college educated voters by 39 points versus Romney’s 25 points, and McCain’s 18 points. So non college educated voters have been shifting quite strongly to the regressives for some time.
trump won college educated white votes by only 4 points versus Romney’s 14 point margin and McCain’s 5 point margin.
Younger voters also moved away from Dems by a 6 point margin from the 2012 election.
Cuban Americans also shifted away from Dems though Hispanic voters remained about the same.
Both Black and Hispanic’s turnout was down from Obama’s elections. Black voters preference for Clinton was down 5 points from Obama. How much was due to voter suppression I can’t tell. Black women and Latino men approximately held their percentages for Clinton compared with Obama but black men and even more so Latina women dropped considerably.
I’m sorry if this is untidy but I am jumping from page to page trying to develop a coherent and reasonably accurate representation here. Probably no one will read as the thread is no doubt deader than a door nail!
Was it misogyny or voter repression, or both that reduced voting in those important voting blocks? Dems need to know for outreach purposes.
NotMax
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Yeah, my abject dislike is directed at those who insist on waving it around as some sort of hallmark of superiority and/or talisman of immunity against criticism and/or stamp of approval for bigotry.
James E Powell
@Sally:
I’m going with misogyny and the NYT still unexplained vendetta against the Clintons. Without it, I think Clinton would have held onto more of the Obama voters.
There was never a chance she would excite African American voters as much as Obama did.
Gex
Belated but for the record when I was born in 1979 yellow was the official race listed on my birth certificate. It was official terminology used by the state.
Dave
Keep it up guys. I am sure all I of you can piss and moan about the unfairness of it all after you tear down any democratic nominees for insufficient purity
Gex
@Gex: that should read 1970
joel hanes
@Kent:
what’s wrong with “It’s a small world after all”?
There was a period of about a decade, 1965-1975, when it seemed to be everywhere.
That plus the treacle sentimentality eventually made it cringeworthy.
joel hanes
@Bill Arnold:
My favorite is bluebarb pie
Strawberry-rhubarb here, as made by my grandmother who grew the strawberries and the rhubarb and made the crust from scratch.
I’d like to try bluebarb, esp. if made with wild blueberries, which are much more flavorful than the giant domestic cultivars. Or wild huckleberries. (Once had a killer huckleberry milkshake in a diner south of Flathead Lake.)
Ninedragonspot
@Matt McIrvin: “Long time no see” is just a word-for-word translation of the extremely common Chinese phrase 好久不見. I always assumed it entered English through Chinese immigrants adopting an old thought to a new language. I’ve never seen anyone describe its use as derogatory.
chopper
@gwangung:
better hope warren never sung “born in the usa” what with its reference to “the yellow man”.
opiejeanne
@Bobby Thomson: Hey, I only read those tweets, I don’t tell them what they should think or do. I am there to learn. I totally understand their anger at the suggestion that trolls are doing this intentionally to create division, no one wants other people coming into their house and criticizing them. The ones I noticed pushing the harsh criticism of Warren are names new to me but they may be people that are known to the ones I follow.
JanieM
@Ninedragonspot: Thank you.
opiejeanne
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I feel heartsick after reading his comment.
Sally
@James E Powell: Yes, I agree with you. I shall use attitudes to gay marriage as an indicator of people’s social conservatism, with which you can agree or not, but it seems reasonable and doable. Women support gay marriage by 10 points over men, and whites by 10 points over blacks, who are at 51% in favour. I can’t find a break down of the figures but arithmetic says that black men must be well below 50% in supporting gay marriage. Black Protestants poll at 44% support for gay marriage. If I can be allowed to deduce that this means they are socially conservative across the board, a fraction of those very conservative black men will not vote for any woman for president. Given these numbers, it’s almost surprising that conservative black women were as positive as they were for Clinton. They truly saw the forest. I am still using Pew for my numbers.
The Comey interventions and the relentless FTFNYT also, too, had big impacts imho. I mean whose charities have not been shut down by NYS. And whose lawyers and associates are not in prison. Whose brats are using US foreign policy to leverage loans and business deals for their personal profit. ???
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@opiejeanne: I don’t. We do have some pretty vicious bullies around here on the regular. With a rare exception, they don’t really add anything to the blog. I always know they’ve been through because everyone’s suddenly talking about pie. (I pie for self-care. I’m a compulsive reader. I can’t not read words in front of me, so I pie liberally and open the hidden comments when I’m up to dealing with the crap certain people frequently descend into.)
It took a long time for me to break the mindset that the fundie idiots I grew up around were representative of Christianity. They’re not; they’re a funhouse mirror reflection of it. Not everyone has the people available, the time, the energy, or the safety to put in that kind of work. I haven’t seen that kind of knee-jerk hatred of Christianity in this thread*; what I’ve seen is concern about the optics of Warren talking up a particular congregation that’s reported to be problematic today. The hypocrisy between teaching songs like the one discussed here and the blatant white supremacy that permeated my childhood church is one of the things that helped me break free of my childhood church. Watching hagiographies being constructed in real time is another. And Captain America drove in the final nail. I still managed to take some good things away from those early teachings. Warren might similarly see it as a silver lining, or she might not have looked into what that church is like now. I think she needs to, just to be ready to answer questions about it.
*It might have been in something I’ve pied, which why I squashed my initial reaction of “reading comprehension, much?”.
A Ghost To Most
No gods
No fascism
No communism
Stop defending the indefensible.
Pie filter progressives only want to hear their own echoes.
A Ghost To Most
@HumboldtBlue: Knopfler was quoting a moving man in the song. You misrepresent him here.
“Les Boys” may or may not be problematic.
debbie
@Sab:
My understanding is that it doesn’t, but it’s not worth screwing with the spouse’s sobriety.
@Gin & Tonic:
I know bakers who make their crusts with vodka and love it. I don’t know, I’m just a consumer!