Impeach the MOFO Open Thread: Maybe We Can Subpoena Ivanka, Too…

Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead… but probably not if the secret-sharer is a senile narcissist propped up by parasites. Or, as Ivanka probably puts it, Who gave the servants *our* password, Daddeee?:

There were dozens of ears listening to President Donald Trump’s 30-minute phone call with the leader of Ukraine that is at the center of a House impeachment inquiry , and as many eyes that saw what he said.

White House staffers, working in the secure, soundproof Situation Room in the West Wing basement, listened in and chronicled the conversation . National Security Council personnel edited a memo written about the call. White House lawyers, according to a government whistleblower, directed that the memo be uploaded into a highly restricted classified computer network. And there were the staffers whose keystrokes on a computer made that happen.

They represent a universe of people, little known outside their vital circle of national security officials, who can either support or disavow the whistleblower’s account. Their roles could well become more public as the impeachment investigation unfolds and Congress seeks additional witnesses.

Some staffers involved with the call still work at the White House; others have left. But what was thought to be a routine conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy turned into anything but that, when Trump asked him to investigate Ukraine’s involvement in the 2016 presidential election and the activities of Democratic political rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter…

This call, as well as others Trump has had with foreign leaders, was unusual in other ways, too. In past administrations, top foreign policy officials routinely briefed a president in person right before a call and provided written materials as well…

One individual with firsthand knowledge of how the Trump calls with foreign leaders are handled said the president “hates” such “pre-briefs” and frequently has refused to do them. Trump doesn’t like written background materials either, preferring to handle the calls himself, often in the morning from the residence. Occasionally, while on the phone with foreign heads of state, Trump has handed the receiver to his daughter, Ivanka Trump, so she can talk with the leader, according to this individual.

The person said a six-page pre-brief with attachments was once prepared for Trump before a call to a foreign leader. But that turned out to be too long, as did a single-page version. Preparing pre-brief note cards that offered about three talking points for Trump to make on a call was the norm, according to this person, who feared retribution for describing this process and spoke on condition of anonymity.

The individual said that when Trump is done with the note cards, he often rips them up and tosses them in a burn bag. Staff who handle records have had to retrieve the burn bags from the residence, put the papers out on a table and tape them back together to preserve them as official presidential records, this person said…

During the Ukraine call, several others listened in. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Keith Kellogg, national security adviser for Vice President Mike Pence, were on the call. It’s unclear if they were at the White House or listened in on “drop” lines, secure hookups top officials can use from outside the White House.

Others who typically would have listened in would have been the president’s national security adviser, John Bolton, or his deputy, Charles Kupperman, who have both left the White House; the NSC’s director of Russia and Europe, who currently is Tim Morrison; the NSC’s Ukraine expert; and possibly someone from White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney’s office…

Down in the Situation Room, several others would have been listening. One person monitors the call to make sure the line is not interrupted. Others are tasked with documenting what is said. No audio recordings are made. The memorandum of the call, the telcon, which the White House has released, is the closest thing to a word-for-word transcript that is produced and is the official presidential record of the conversation…

The unidentified whistleblower — one of two who have come forward — said White House lawyers directed that the telcon be taken off a computer server where classified documents on foreign leader calls are normally kept. They directed it be transferred to a computer network with restricted access for documents about covert operations or other highly sensitive information. The telcon, which was classified as secret, did not contain anything remotely sensitive from a national security perspective.

One of the two people familiar with how foreign leader calls are handled in the Trump White House said putting a document classified only as “secret” into a server holding very highly classified information is not against any rule, but is a means of “leak prevention.”…

There are gonna be so many more official laws about security once we turf Donny Dollhands out of the Oval Office. If there’s any field in which he can legitimately claim to be a ‘genius’, it’s in demonstrating where ‘norms’ simply aren’t sufficient defense against a dedicated rule-breaker.






164 replies
  1. 1
    dimmsdale says:

    I’ll tee this off with a question that’s been bothering me lately: given all that we know, and all that we will come to know, about authorized (and UN-authorized politicals in the talking anus’ orbit failing to perform legally mandated record-keeping, expediting illegal shenanigans, staying silent about felonious activities that betray the country’s security or defy the clear intent of the law (misprision, is that the word I’m after?)–how deep and how far-reaching will the Democratic appetite be for hearings and prosecution of ALL the offenders? MY personal appetite is boundless at this point, and I wouldn’t mind six YEARS of hearings and trials down to the least significant MAGA maggot turning public money to their own (and others’) personal gain. I’m concerned once the talking anus has wangled his medical retirement, the Democrats will fold up the tent and get back to business as usual.

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  2. 2
    cmorenc says:

    Just barely enough voters ditched voting for a woman who was always diligently prepared and deeply knowledgeable to elect a lazy narcissistic dilettante who can’t be bothered to do even slight preparation and wings it on his gut instincts – which is full of shit.

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    dmsilev says:

    @cmorenc: But, her emails!

    ReplyReply
  4. 4
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Did I miss Pompeo’s firing and the Russthuglican Senate confirming Porn Whisper Barbie (h/t HoarseWisperer I think) as Secretary of State?

    Fucking hell! We’re gonna have to hang all these fuckers merely as a matter of national security.

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  5. 5
    sukabi says:

    @dimmsdale: if we end up with Biden as the President, “looking forward” will be the path taken.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6
    dimmsdale says:

    @sukabi: Oh sweet Jesus, bite your tongue & throw some salt over your shoulder. I’m trusting he crashes and burns before the election, but hey, I’ve been wrong before.

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  7. 7
    delk says:

    Put Hillary on TV everyday announcing that four years ago on this day President Trump did this act/thing. Have her sitting in front of a laptop so she can say that she is emailing the specifics to President Warren so she can reverse it by executive order.

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  8. 8
    Sloane Peterson's knee therapist says:

    Meh. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to Ivanka’s talking on the tele to Heads of State. Just like when she was cruising around at the G-20 she was just looking for candy. “Daddy said there’d be candy here. Do any of you have any candy?”

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  9. 9
    gene108 says:

    Trump doesn’t like written background materials either, preferring to handle the calls himself, often in the morning from the residence.

    Secured or unsecured line? We should really know how many unsecured calls he makes each day.

    The individual said that when Trump is done with the note cards, he often rips them up and tosses them in a burn bag. Staff who handle records have had to retrieve the burn bags from the residence, put the papers out on a table and tape them back together to preserve them as official presidential records, this person said…

    We are paying for a team of White House staffers, to sift through the President’s paper trash and tape it back together

    I don’t ever want Republicans to talk about wasteful government anything, since we’re paying for a bunch of, probably, college educated staffers to tape his trash back together

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  10. 10
    sukabi says:

    @dimmsdale: that’s my hope as well, but id drumpf is dumped / or jumps before the election the ptb are going to do everything in their power to maintain the status quo…Biden is their man.

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  11. 11
    piratedan says:

    @sukabi: I kind of feel the same, I think with either Warren or Harris, there will be sufficient incentive to burn the GOP and even members of the right wing media empire to the ground. I feel that either of them have seen the damage that has been done, both to society and discourse to leave it standing.

    I would also quietly expect that there will be some very covert foreign policy payback put in play, both in ending lives and catching the finances

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  12. 12
    MattF says:

    Gobsmack. This is not OK. That is all.

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  13. 13
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @cmorenc: “Waaahhhh, aren’t you overprepared?” whined Chuckles Todd to the most qualified Presidential nominee in at least the past 40 years who was running against the most unqualified, traitorous nominee in US history.

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  14. 14
    MattF says:

    Gobsmack. This is not OK.

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @dimmsdale:

    I’m trusting he crashes and burns before the election, but hey, I’ve been wrong before.

    Who exactly?

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  16. 16
    gene108 says:

    @dimmsdale:

    Democrats can’t come after Congressional Republicans, who took laundered money from Russia.

    I think that would be a hard thing to do. If Democrats running against those guys, brought up the dirty money, I think that’s fair game.

    Or, if anyone in the media wants to dig through Republicans financial disclosures and campaign filing forms, we might shake enough dirt out to prosecute. Maybe.

    The real issue with prosecuting everyone in the Trump Administration, besides Trump, is there’s no clear evidence what laws they actually broke. They all are sketchy and self serving, but that’s different than blatantly criminal.

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  17. 17
    The Dangerman says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Porn Whisper Barbie

    After Daddy dies and she finds out she gets Diddly, she has a future as a 976 operator, apparently.

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  18. 18
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @delk: A great idea, but the owners of the TV stations would just have roundtables with Gorka, David Brooks, etc discussing why she won’t just shut up and go away.

    See post-election November 2016.

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  19. 19
    gene108 says:

    @dimmsdale:

    I’m trusting he crashes and burns before the election,

    So President Pence can pardon him for all Federal crimes?

    I want him running, and to be so toxic that he’ll bring the rest of the Republicans down with him.

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  20. 20
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @The Dangerman: “Talk to the most traitorous Trump trash in your area. Call now!”

    Is the prison going to charge her for the calls?

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  21. 21
    ruemara says:

    @gene108: Pretty evident collusion, conflicts of interest and at least aiding in cover ups count. And that’s not even looking at Republican Congressional members who leaked intel and interfered or blocked investigations.

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  22. 22
    patrick II says:

    @gene108:

    We are paying for a team of White House staffers, to sift through the President’s paper trash and tape it back together

    He has to know they are doing that, but the criminal habit of disposing of evidence is just something he can’t quit.

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  23. 23
    West of the Rockies says:

    @sukabi:

    I think that’s my chief concern with Joe (along with his verbal pratfalls and age)… I believe he mostly just wants to keep an even hand on the rudder and move the ship of state along without making any real changes, introducing no significant policy shifts, and upsetting no one’s apple cart.

    I want actual progress. Oh, and some revenge and justice would be nice. YMMV.

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  24. 24
    patrick II says:

    @gene108:

    Democrats can’t come after Congressional Republicans, who took laundered money from Russia.

    If there is enough evidence (and I would look hard) I would certainly go after congressional leadership who made it o.k. for everyone else. Leadership counts. McConnell is dirty as hell and so is Ryan, who tried to get out of town while the gettin’ was good.

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  25. 25
    hitchhiker says:

    My favorite part of the Ukraine scandal is that it began as a standard Republican tactic that backfired because trump is so stupid.

    Remember “Clinton Cash?” Or “Swiftboat Veterans for Truth?” The idea is to plant doubt. The method is to produce some crazy story, spread it around the far right, get Fox to pick it up, have fits because the mainstream media is ignoring it, watch while the mainstream media starts to poke at it, pretend there’s a coverup … and voila! The candidate is dirty. The candidate seems suspicious. The candidate has a cloud hanging over her.

    In this case, they had their crazy story. (Ukraine hacked the DNC and made it look like the Russians. Hunter Biden and his dad were corrupt.)

    They got to the part where Fox was giving it lots of play.

    Then … stupid donald trump, who is watching Fox all day long, gets annoyed that the mainstream media isn’t picking it up. Damn them! It’s perfect! He needs Ukraine to blow on this dying fire by announcing that they’re opening an investigation. They don’t want to. Fuck them! They’re not going to get their military assistance if they don’t play along.

    And none of this would be in the public record if we had not taken the House last November. Instead, we’d be watching the likes of Devin Nunes convening public hearings to discuss Hunter Biden.

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  26. 26
    hotshoe says:

    Did Ivanka even have the security clearance to talk with foreign leaders? Don’t I remember that Kushner never did qualify for security clearance?
    Can’t stop either of them, because Daddy rules … but that’s yet another thing that bugs me about how corruption and ignorance and power-madness all run together in that crime family.

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  27. 27
    J R in WV says:

    If I were a god-botherer, I would pray for justice. Since I think that if there is a God, he has more important things to do that watch over the Earth and it’s creatures, I’m not. Just hoping really, really hard.

    If we don’t get justice, if we don’t try and convict all of these corrupt Republican suckers of the Russian teat, we’re so screwed. I’m old and getting to be decrepit, so I’m not particularly afraid of my own suffering. But I did swear that oath way back when to defend the Constitution against all enemies both foreign and domestic.

    We have sure to God got some domestic enemies of Truth, Justice and the American way to deal with here!

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    Cacti says:

    It just keeps getting better:

    Newly surfaced photo of Trump and Lev Parnas shows they were acquainted at least as far back as 2014.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @West of the Rockies: Same here. Joe seems to be all “La la la, we’ll just move past this.”

    Well, if that were OK, why does an attempted murder charge exist? “Sorry, you weren’t killed. We’re just going to move on.”

    President Warren or Harris should bring the DOJ down on these bastards’ heads.

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    Martin says:

    @gene108: There’s a secured line in the Residence. I think all of these need to have been secured for so many to have been listening in on it. They don’t hook just any phone line up to the Situation Room.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Martin says:

    @hotshoe:

    Did Ivanka even have the security clearance to talk with foreign leaders?

    That doesn’t really even matter. She’s not elected or confirmed. She’s basically just a rando representing the US government.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    chris says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    he mostly just wants to keep an even hand on the rudder and move the ship of state along without making any real changes, introducing no significant policy shifts, and upsetting no one’s apple cart.

    No current system of government is prepared or capable of dealing with the onrushing shitstorm that is climate change. Business the way we used to do it sure ain’t gonna help. I have no clue how to fix that but prosecuting (persecuting too!) Republicans would be good entertainment while we await the end. I really hope you guys elect someone young enough to care and angry enough to do something other than coast.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Martin: “Is everyone on a call?” “Hello Donald.” “Hi Daddy Vladdy!”

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    Cacti says:

    @Martin:

    That doesn’t really even matter. She’s not elected or confirmed. She’s basically just a rando representing the US government.

    Since she has a paid position at the White House, it actually does matter. A lot.

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    MattF says:

    @Cacti: So, yeah, Trump was lying. Doesn’t mean they weren’t clients of Rudy, though. I’d guess that Rudy is in a bit more trouble now.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    Cacti says:

    @MattF:

    It’s even more satisfying that the photo was found on Facebook.

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    debbie says:

    @Cacti:

    Man, has he aged in the past five years!

    ReplyReply
  38. 38

    @MattF:

    I’d guess that Rudy is in a bit more trouble now.

    Sucks to be him.

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    Another Scott says:

    @chris: As we know, the US is less than 5% of the world population. Though we and the UK and Western Europe put much of the fossil carbon in the atmosphere that’s there now, we can’t fix the headlong rush of dumping even more up there in coming decades on our own.

    We can do a lot, and help the rest of the world to do a lot, but we can do much, much more by working cooperatively with the rest of our fellow Earthlings. That probably means figuring out a way for us to help pay for the rest of the world to make a transition to non-fossil-fuel power as quickly as possible. And that’s a political problem, not a technical one…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    Walker says:

    We will not do anything if we do not get the Senate. The Republicans will not let us confirm anyone.

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @debbie: Trump or Parnas?

    I look at something like this and I am once again astonished and depressed that 63 million US citizens looked at this shitbag and said “Yup, looks like a President.”

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Black woman shot in her home by police.
    https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1183163514317410304
    Sigh.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    Cacti says:

    @Walker:

    True. Which is why impeachment by the House needs to be timed to inflict maximum damage on Senate Republicans when it is sent up to them for trial.

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Patricia Kayden: This poor woman. *four* seconds. *four* seconds. I read things like this and think to myself: so glad I live in CA, where black people aren’t gunned down for nothing …. oh wait, nevermind. Sigh.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    Mandalay says:

    @Ann Laurie

    There are gonna be so many more official laws about security once we turf Donny Dollhands out of the Oval Office.

    An excellent point. If there’s a silver lining to the dark cloud of Trump’s presidency it’s that he has proven that our laws, rules and regulations relating to the presidency are hopelessly ineffective or missing in a gazillion different ways.

    He is stress testing the system magnificently, and showing us that it leaks like a sieve.

    For me the single most important reason for the Democrats to win the presidency, Senate and House is to pass a shitload of laws that would make it much harder for someone like Trump to ever become president in the first place, and to make it much easier to hold them accountable while in office. The power of the president is far too strong right now.

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    patrick II says:

    @Martin: @Cacti:

    Unconstrained hubris + Dunning-Kruger = Ivanka’s hope to be first woman president in the not too distant future. Which, though unbelievable, she actually does hope. The phone calls are apprenticeship for Daddy’s job. Did she sit on his lap?
    There is a famous Isaac Newton quote:

    I do not know what I may appear to the world, but to myself I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore, and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me.

    Which always struck me as a keystone of being a real genius — the sense of humility knowing that we know so little. The Trump family isn’t aware of the ocean even though it is all around them, they are too busy looking down searching hard for a few gold pebbles that are the whole world to them.

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    debbie says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I had to Google for a current picture of Parnas and, geez, both of them really have aged!

    I still can’t believe most of my family voted for him… :(

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    Cacti says:

    From the fine journalists at Al Jazeera:

    Two more Trump/Giuliani associates purchased shell corporations holding Viktor Yanukovitch’s stolen billions.

    Were also lobbying Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch to lean on the Ukraine government to unfreeze the shell corp assets.

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    debbie says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Fucking unbelievable. Not even given a chance to show her hands.

    Based on recent history, I hope that neighbor keeps a close watch on his back.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    West of the Rockies says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Well, first she’ll need to bring a refurbished DOJ down on the old, dirty DOJ, but yes!

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    sukabi says:

    @West of the Rockies: same mileage as you. Needs to be big structural change and swift harsh justice for the grifting fuckers.

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    chris says:

    @Another Scott:

    the US is less than 5% of the world population

    Also the world’s loudest voice. Out here in Not-America-Fuck-Yeah we were hoping for a little more leadership and a lot less climate denialism. A very political problem indeed.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @dmsilev: And according to Susan Sarandon, Killary was also a huge warmonger, doncha know?

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    Ken says:

    Someone please tell me that there’s a fine for violating the Presidential Record-Keeping Act, and that it’s per incident.

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Jesus H. Christ. This has to stop.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Walker: Thankfully the Senate is flippable. If we have another wave election next year, Republicans will be in a precarious position if they support Trump and have to defend 12 Senate seats.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @West of the Rockies: Well, yeah. I thought cleaning house was a given after this Soviet shitpile mobster crime family.

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    And is it just me, or is she also a little shrill?//

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @West of the Rockies: @Chetan Murthy:
    I don’t even know what to say anymore. Police officers need better training, to say the least. They don’t need to shoot unarmed people to keep us safe.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    Dan B says:

    @chris: The system that caused the 70 degree temperature drop in Colorado is a huge eddy in the jet stream. These eddies will become more common with global warming as the arctic dramatically warms. Heat domes over Greenland and Arctic air masses escaping to mid latitudes. The potato crop in Idaho and eastern Washington may have been seriously damaged. Agriculture is already being impacted and we’re only in the previews.

    We went 95 percent renewable with solar PV and an electric car – kept the gas stove. The car is a dream and the rebates from Seattle City Light (sorry CA about your private utility) are great. We can do the transition but it will take extra support for low income people.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @West of the Rockies: Shrill as hell like all other women on the left.

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    Mandalay says:

    @Cacti:

    Since she has a paid position at the White House…

    Ivanka Trump’s employment in the White House is unusual:
    – She is a White House employee.
    – She is not paid.
    She has stated that “I will .. serve as an unpaid employee in the White House office, subject to all of the same rules as other federal employees”, but I don’t think she has taken any specific job position.

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  63. 63
    Jay says:

    It’s in plain sight and for everyone to hear, the AG of the United States is unambiguously using “dominionist” talking points against secularism. Let. that. sink. in. https://t.co/FTzblk4JuG— André Gagné (@profagagne) October 12, 2019

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  64. 64
    Cacti says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    As I watch the giant manbaby decompensate daily at pressers and hate rallies, I’m thankful that we avoided Shrillary. She was just too emotional.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    Mike in NC says:

    I recall reading an account of the time when Fat Bastard rolled up a piece of memo paper and swallowed it. Just the way the National Archives intends it.

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    germy says:

    Turkish state-backed media hails a “successful operation” to “neutralize” an unarmed 35-year old woman working to unite Arabs, Christians, and Kurds in NE Syria. Ms. Hevrin Khalef was reportedly dragged from a vehicle and shot to death. That’s a war crime. https://t.co/O5hEVQ28jt pic.twitter.com/dn6cl7VUZr— Brett McGurk (@brett_mcgurk) October 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Police officers need better training, to say the least.

    I no longer believe that that’s enough. I think we need such strict gun control, that the presumption can be that a cop always enters an environment where there are no guns present. Or, maybe if all cops are people of color …. idunno. [that seems unachievable, and even if, there are Hindu assholes, Hispanic assholes, Black assholes ….]

    I’ve wondered about strict laws that make police-involved shootings a matter of the burden of proof being on the cop, etc, so that unless the cop can show that the victim was an actual perpetrator in the process of actually endangering the cop’s life [not “I was a-scared!”] the cop is guilty. Wouldn’t pass Constitutional muster.

    In the end, unless we can get to where cops just don’t have guns, they’re going to keep killing people of color. And even after that, they’ll keep beating them, but at least a beatdown isn’t usually a death sentence.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    Cacti says:

    @Mandalay:

    Weird.

    But “subject to all of the same rules as other federal employees” would mean the Hatch Act and security clearances.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    gene108 says:

    @Martin:

    There’s a secured line in the Residence.

    But does he use it or his unsecured cell phone?

    I’ve read he makes a lot of calls to Hannity, Fox & Friends, other past associates, etc. on his unsecured phone.

    Why would he be conscientious enough to use the secure phone for calls with other governments?

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    germy says:

    🔞Erdogan's Syrian mercenaries executing people.#EthnicCleansingOperation pic.twitter.com/Ogk08gA5nY— Mekut (@Mekut_Mallet) October 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    Dan B says:

    @Dan B: The jet stream eddy is moving east so Chicago may be next. The eddy drops from a couple hundred miles north of the Canadian border all the way to mid Oklahoma. This is crazy weather.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    chris says:

    @Dan B:

    We can do the transition but it will take extra support for low income people.

    Yes we can! But how will that play in Coal Country?//

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  73. 73
    Another Scott says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I’m more and more convinced that beat cops have no business carrying guns. Too many of them don’t know how and when to use them. If they get in a situation where they need guns, then they should call for SWAT.

    Just “training” isn’t enough, IMHO. They need to take the guns away.

    Grrr….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    gene108 says:

    @Mandalay:

    Not being paid allows Jared and Ivanka to skirt Federal nepotism laws.

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Having the local DA investigate police shootings is horse shit. They close ranks and protect each other.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Cacti: I’m left wondering if there’s any sleazy Ukrainian/Russian crooks who do *not* have a grip-and-grin with Rudy or Donald.

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    gene108 says:

    @Dan B:

    We went 95 percent renewable with solar PV and an electric car – kept the gas stove. The car is a dream and the rebates from Seattle City Light (sorry CA about your private utility) are great. We can do the transition but it will take extra support for low income people.

    The biggest stumbling block to EV’s is for those of us, who do not have a garage, driveway, carport, etc.

    I can’t own an EV, because I can’t charge it overnight at my condo complex. And there are not enough charging stations to compensate for this.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    Dan B says:

    @germy: The attack on the Kurds is already moving to genocide. The Turkish military has completely lost their democratic core.

    On top of that a friend of mine is in Jeddah. We haven’t heard from her since the Iranian tanker was bombed.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @gene108: I’m going to bet the house that the NSA is one of a half-dozen spy services that has every word he breathes on that unsecure phone.

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Another Scott:

    Is it true that English bobbies do not carry sidearms?

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    sukabi says:

    @Gin & Tonic: at this point I’m assuming that Guiliani and drumpf are the conduit between the Russian mob and organized crime of the white collar variety.

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Chetan Murthy:
    It seems to me that too many American police forces have become infested with gangs of armed racist bullies.

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    Jay says:

    Just FYI: The “anti-Trump conservative” the Washington Post chose to give a platform to decry Elizabeth Warren’s comments on marriage equality as “out-of-touch” is a conspiracy theory-obsessed defender of a convicted child rapist https://t.co/cP0xF1wVKl pic.twitter.com/B6yO86Nc4u— Steve Morris (@stevemorris__) October 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    germy says:

    @Dan B: Horrible news.

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Having the local DA investigate police shootings is horse shit.

    Agreed. It’s why I believe that any punishment-based approach will fail: nobody’s gonna punish these thugs. The only thing that’ll work is to prevent the killings from happening to begin with. Taking the guns out of cops’ hands. And the only way that’ll happen (b/c the whining would be deafening) is if there are simply no guns in the hands of the public.

    Though, I do wonder about just taking the guns out of the hands of cops (as @Another Scott: suggests) and they must always call SWAT when they need firepower. I doubt the po-po would sit still for that, the little whining bitches.

    ReplyReply
  86. 86

    @chris:

    Out here in Not-America-Fuck-Yeah we were hoping for a little more leadership and a lot less climate denialism.

    I’m afraid that admitting climate change is real would mean admitting liberals are right about something, and admitting liberals are right about anything got us a black president. No Republican is ever going to fall for that ever again. Hell, some of them tried to be reasonable and give the black president thing a try, and he turned out to be smart and competent and actually in charge rather than a sidekick, and he even gave them charity. Look at how we view Trump and you can vaguely imagine how scorched-earth total war furious they are.

    ReplyReply
  87. 87
    Amir Khalid says:

    @West of the Rockies:
    Yes, and the use of guns is restricted to specialist armed units.

    ReplyReply
  88. 88
    RAVEN says:

    @Dan B: It hasn’t rained here in over a month. My wife and her group have busted their asses organizing the doggie parade and, even though it’s rain or shine, it’s going to be a real bummer if the forecast is accurate.

    ReplyReply
  89. 89
    NotMax says:

    @Mandalay

    Her official job title, per the White House’s own listing of employees is (ready for it?):

    “First Daughter and Senior Adviser to the President.”

    As for the salary, it never once occurred to her, I’m sure, to donate it to charity or even to the Treasury. And bet your boots she gets federal gov health care.

    ReplyReply
  90. 90
    Another Scott says:

    @West of the Rockies: I don’t know the details but I believe that’s the case. Though it seems like they have them close by (e.g. in the trunks of their cars) when there are infamous attacks in London.

    :-(

    There would undoubtedly be problems in the US trying to implement such a policy quickly, but I think that it needs to be done. Crime levels are actually low in the US. It’s time that the police start acting like peace officers rather than gunslingers and proto-infrantry officers in a sea of bad guys… :-(

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    Dan B says:

    @gene108: Seattle has a new program to deal with a lack of adquate charging stations. It takes a very progressive city, county, utilities, and governor to make this happen.

    The folks who won the Nobel for Lithium Ion batteries are working on Lithium or Sodium / Silica batteries that would hold much more energy and charge in minutes. So don’t despair forever.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    Dan B says:

    @Dan B: Does your condo have regular electrical outlets in the garage? Assuming there is a garage. We charge our car overnight with standard 110 – we’re to cheap for a faster charger. The car charges to 170 miles in 10 hours but we rarely need that capacity.

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    They need to be un-trained to use deadly force. Since that’s probably impossible, we will have to wait for a new generation.

    I remember, after Michael Brown, one of the security officers where I work (a retired cop) said she couldn’t understand these shootings. In her 20 years of service, she said she had used her gun only once, when a guy she had stopped on the highway jumped out of his car with a gun and came at her. He shot, grazed her ribs. She fell to the ground, but had the presence of mind to incapacitate him by shooting him in the thigh. Where’s that kind of training?

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    tokyokie says:

    I want the Republican Party to go the way of Democrazia Cristiana.

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    NotMax says:

    @gene108

    Not so. Pay or no pay doesn’t come into play. Dolt 45’s DOJ ruled that the Office of the President is not an executive agency.

    … [Asst. AG] Koffsky in 2017 wrote that the president’s office is not an executive agency and that he can hire family as White House staff, which would justify Kushner’s initial appointment as a “senior adviser” to the president.

    In other words, while the president is chief executive, rules barring nepotism in an executive agency don’t count—according to Koffsky’s interpretation—because the White House isn’t an agency. Basically, it’s the office of the president. So other legal provisions that apply to hiring in government would undermine decisions made about White House staffing, he argues. Such a statutory catchall would give Trump broad leeway to hire just about anyone for his office. Source

    ReplyReply
  96. 96
    Jay says:

    Trump vows to crack down on Somali refugees in a city with one of the largest Somali populations in the country pic.twitter.com/xXM3pffCef— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    Nelle says:

    The regular cops in New Zealand, where we used to live, do not carry guns. Two days after moving to the States, we saw a guy get pulled over and the trooper approached the car with his hand on his holstered gun. It was a visual shock. Then I thought, there are so many guns floating around here. No win situation.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    Mike in NC says:

    @West of the Rockies: Regular police officers in England, Wales, Scotland and the Republic of Ireland do not carry firearms. They usually do in Northern Ireland (probably a throwback to The Troubles).

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    NotMax says:

    @tokyokie

    Going the way of the passenger pigeon works too.

    ;)

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    Dan B says:

    @RAVEN: Sorry to hear about the forecast for the pooch parade. The dogs probably wouldn’t care much but kiddies and parents are likely to be discouraged.

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    RAVEN says:

    @Dan B: All we can do is hope.

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    Mary G says:

    Bob Barr went all Dominionist and here are the “Value Voters” praying for the man who has sicced murderers onto Kurdish citizens. I just can’t take another minute of these pigs.

    Pastor Bruson, praying for Trump: "I ask that you give the president supernatural discernment to know who is trustworthy and who is not. Bring into the light all deception and intrigue. Expose and reverse the plans of those who would harm President Trump and this nation." pic.twitter.com/NYwHzRvgBn— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    chris says:

    Commander of Kurdish forces in #Syria to US official:"I need to know if u are capable of protecting my people, stopping these bombs falling on us or not… If not, I need to make a deal w/Russia & regime now & invite their planes to protect this region”https://t.co/WmhracL2qs— Robert Malley (@Rob_Malley) 12 October 2019

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Mike in NC:

    The Troubles… I wonder if we will see a return to such violence depending upon how Brexit shakes out.

    ReplyReply
  105. 105
    debbie says:

    @chris:

    Isn’t Russia already supporting Turkey?

    ReplyReply
  106. 106
    prostratedragon says:

    Rep. Bobby L. Rush rises to a band-naming challenge:

    The Four Treasons

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    Cacti says:

    @Mary G:

    Bring into the light all deception and intrigue.

    Oh it’s being brought into the light.

    That’s why their cult leader is in a complete panic.

    ReplyReply
  108. 108
    chris says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: I know, I’m a daily reader here.

    ReplyReply
  109. 109
    chris says:

    @debbie: Desperate times call for desperate measures.

    ETA https://twitter.com/ilangoldenberg/status/1183093927294963714

    ReplyReply
  110. 110
    Ruckus says:

    @debbie:
    The cops know that a lot of people carry guns now. That a lot of people, including cops think that war is the only solution to a problem, and the only way to win at war is to kill their opposite first. A lot of cops are vets, who have been trained that you never know who is and who isn’t going to kill you. A lot of cops watch faux news, or actually pretty much any other TV news. I can go right now to any of the websites for LA stations and find video after video of shootings and cops getting shot at. If you look it almost seems like a war zone anywhere a cop might be. Then you have the economy that almost never really lets people get out of poverty and that and racism can make a person look like they have no other way out than use a gun. It’s bullshit, conservative bullshit, but scaring people is an effective form of propaganda, especially if they get someone to blame for their own life of mediocre nothing, while watching homes being sold for several million and cars which cost $70-80-100 thousand dollars drive around them, and people act like being poor is all your own fault and call you poor because you are walking rather than driving.
    Conservatives have played this game for most/all of my 70 yrs and it has reached it’s zenith as far as deflecting attraction to the theft of our democracy and our economy. It either has to change or the world will be thrown into another world war, once again over money and power, just at a time when the world demands better for everyone. And of course we have numbnuts supposedly in charge of a job that requires a scholar in reasonable government, in which he scores no way, minus numbers, not an F but somewhere around W, even graded on a curve sent back 15 grades to start over, the worst person possible. Vlad chose well. For Vlad. Not so much for the rest of the world.

    ReplyReply
  111. 111
    Jay says:

    Turkey’s conflict in Syria took a major turn today. First alleged atrocities by Turkish-backed Arab militias, executing Kurds. US military officials tell me it's true, and they are DEEPLY concerned it opens the door to BOTH ethnic cleansing of Kurds and return of ISIS/Al-Qaeda— Richard Engel (@RichardEngel) October 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  112. 112
    Mike in NC says:

    @West of the Rockies: On our August cruise we visited both Dublin and Belfast, and a whole lotta people over there were freaked out over BREXIT.

    ReplyReply
  113. 113
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I don’t how the laws work, but I imagine hiring defense/tax lawyers is gonna cost him some dough

    “Eric Redman @ ricredman
    And there may be more shoes to drop re Sondland as well. An Oregonian — for all anyone knew — reporting his residence as being a downtown Seattle hotel, per seattletimes. Oregon has an income tax. Washington does not. Now there will be attention on that coincidence.”
    Sondland’s wife, Katherine Durant, is listed as the owner of a 6,600 square foot home in Portland’s West Hills and they own a 5,500-square-foot beach house on Gearhart’s South Ocean Ave., long a hideaway for Portland’s moneyed elite.

    ReplyReply
  114. 114
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    John Hudson @ John_Hudson
    SCOOP: Trump’s EU envoy who denied a “quid pro quo” in a text message now says he isn’t certain.

    “It’s only true that the president said it, not that it was the truth” says a person familiar with his planned testimony. My latest with @ byaaroncdavis

    ReplyReply
  115. 115
    Jinchi says:

    I always thought it was odd that Rudy Giuliani, in an interview with Sean Hannity, decided to declare Ivanka Trump “off limits” to the Mueller investigation. Virtually nobody had suggested that Mueller was investigating Ivanka at the time.

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    Jinchi says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I’m afraid that admitting climate change is real would mean admitting liberals are right about something

    As the Iraq war debate proved, it is unacceptable to be right about a thing before a critical mass of Republican politicians has already agreed to it.

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
    Kattails says:

    @Mary G: What he’s praying for would pretty much mean Donnie himself discerning the level of asshole he is and self-combusting.
    The seven deadly sins: pride, greed, lust, envy, wrath, gluttony, sloth. Presume to lead to other vices. You can check all boxes for Trump. Even the sloth part, his pathetic refusal to do the most basic reading and attention to detail for a job that affects millions of people. A job that he applied for, and stole, from a woman who would have put her heart and soul into it. Bastard. Any religious “leader” who remains oblivious to this needs to STFU and resign like yesterday.

    ReplyReply
  118. 118
    TS (the original) says:

    @Mandalay:

    If there’s a silver lining to the dark cloud of Trump’s presidency it’s that he has proven that our laws, rules and regulations relating to the presidency are hopelessly ineffective or missing in a gazillion different ways.

    First time they have been a major problem – other than “those emails”. The laws, rules, regulations are fine – they are ineffective with a moron who refuses to follow any rules

    ReplyReply
  119. 119
    psycholinguist says:

    Might want to check out the Washington post front page. Sondland’s leaking his testimony, and it is bat shit crazy what he says was going on. Trump told him personally, through a phone call, to send that last text, and apparently Rudy was running Ukraine policy for the last 6 months or so. He, Perry, and Vogel look to be getting their stories together to point the finger at Trump. So much mutual bus throwing going on there.

    ReplyReply
  120. 120
    chris says:

    In Louisiana:

    13% reporting now for LA-GOV:

    John Bel Edwards (D, Inc)- 46.6%

    Ralph Abraham (R)- 26.3%

    Eddie Rispone (R)- 24.8%

    5 minutes ago, via Reddit

    ReplyReply
  121. 121
    jl says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Trump should be impeached convicted and removed from office for his stunt with Erodgan alone. Obvious harm to US security. Erodgan isn’t any better than Putin, and what he’s done to Turkey is disgusting.

    What we are seeing in the Turkish ‘incursion’ ranges from disturbing to horrifying. I heard on the news that Erdogan is threatening to send Syrian refugees into Europe to destabilize their politics if they don’t acquiesce with his actions and send the money he wants.

    Sondland must have seen and known some very bad stuff for him to turn, and now he’s trying to slice and dice the criminality, to find a way to slip past the patently criminal bits to get himself off the hook. Looks like he was involved with something where no matter how soon you jump ship, you’re gonna do some time, if justice is done.

    EditL saw a Sondland quote someplace “There was a QUID PRO QUO, but it wasn’t corrupt” Yeesh. Sondland must be deep in shit.

    ReplyReply
  122. 122
  123. 123
    NotMax says:

    @Dan B

    Lithium-Titanate batteries are the hot new kid on the block now, AFAIK.

    ReplyReply
  124. 124
    FelonyGovt says:

    @Kattails: oh yes, “sloth”. Constant golfing, tweeting, watching Fox News. Refusal to put any work whatsoever into the job. Refusal to even read, or to listen to any knowledgeable advisors, to the extent that he no longer HAS any knowledgeable advisors.

    ReplyReply
  125. 125
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    It’s really weird how Trump really is like one of his idiots voters who was instantly made president by some magical wish, likely why his base sticks to him like they do (up until the laughter at Trump’s comical stupidity and corruption get to much) Reading this sure feels like one belief that Trump and his base share their ideas of government are solely based on Micheal Bey movies.

    ReplyReply
  126. 126
    jl says:

    @TS (the original):

    @John_Hudson
    ‘ SCOOP: Trump’s EU envoy who denied a “quid pro quo” in a text message now says he isn’t certain.

    “It’s only true that the president said it, not that it was the truth” says a person familiar with his planned testimony. ‘
    https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1183182106203172865

    ReplyReply
  127. 127
    japa21 says:

    @chris: Edwards 50% +1 to avoid a run off.

    ETA: New Orleans has barely started reporting and he will win big there.

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    chris says:

    @japa21: Yes, and with 42% reporting now he’s still at 46%. Guess we’ll see.

    ReplyReply
  129. 129
    Ken says:

    “It’s only true that the president said it, not that it was the truth”

    Definite candidate for a rotating tag.

    It’s also reminiscent of Raymond Smullyan’s logic puzzles: “If an insane knave says that he believes that there was no quid pro quo…”

    ReplyReply
  130. 130
    dmsilev says:

    @psycholinguist: From that Post story,

    Sondland plans to tell lawmakers he has no knowledge of whether the president was telling him the truth at that moment. “It’s only true that the president said it, not that it was the truth,” said the person familiar with Sondland’s planned testimony

    This is coming from a guy who gave Trump a million or so dollars for his inaugural.

    ReplyReply
  131. 131
    Mandalay says:

    @TS (the original):

    The laws, rules, regulations are fine – they are ineffective with a moron who refuses to follow any rules

    If they are ineffective with a moron then you don’t get to insist they are fine. What you have written is nonsense.

    ReplyReply
  132. 132
    dimmsdale says:

    @mrmoshpotato: I meant Biden. And by ‘crash and burn’ I meant one too many gaffes, leading to a predominant impression of not-quite-with-it-ness among the electorate and, more important, our media whores (and they’re enamored of the Biden candidacy for reasons that escape me).

    ReplyReply
  133. 133
    Wapiti says:

    @dmsilev: His taxes can be raised by at least $1 million with no adverse effects to the country.

    ReplyReply
  134. 134
    Mary G says:

    @jl: He definitely needs a better spokesperson/testimony leaker. That is Twitler-level stupid, it is. But thanks for being the next person who proves the Democrats’ case for them. I can hear Adam Sciff chortling now.

    ReplyReply
  135. 135
    TS (the original) says:

    @chris: And still they vote against their own best interest (or they don’t vote)

    latest

    John Bel Edwards (D, Inc)- 45%

    Ralph Abraham (R)- 25%

    Eddie Rispone (R)- 28%

    Secretary of State

    GOP winning all state wide elections. The only YES vote is for CA NO. 3 (ACT 446 – HB 428) — Remedy for Unconstitutional Tax Paid

    Do any of them pay taxes?

    ReplyReply
  136. 136
    Aleta says:

    How about we offer Trump a quid pro quo. He removes himself, family, administration and staff from DC + nothing is missing from any buildings/planes; we shield him from Putin by building a wall and guard towers around Mar ugh largo. Explain Putin has started to track his every location.

    ReplyReply
  137. 137
    TS (the original) says:

    @Mandalay: What I have written – It is IMPOSSIBLE to write any rules/regulations in relation to trump. That is why the house is working on impeachment.

    ReplyReply
  138. 138
    NotMax says:

    @TS (the original)

    That Rispone is ahead of Abraham is more troubling, as Rispone is the one who campaigned as a Trumpaholic.

    ReplyReply
  139. 139
    TS (the original) says:

    @Martin:

    She’s basically just a rando representing the US government.

    She’s basically daughter saying hello to Daddy’s friends.

    ReplyReply
  140. 140
    Chris T. says:

    @gene108:

    I can’t own an EV, because I can’t charge it overnight at my condo complex. And there are not enough charging stations to compensate for this.

    There will be, eventually. How long this takes depends on multiple factors, including political will.

    I’d like to be able to drive our EV on a long trip up or down I-5 but it’s not a Tesla and there are not enough DC fast chargers yet. But we do have a garage (and solar panels, etc) at home.

    ReplyReply
  141. 141
    chris says:

    @TS (the original):

    And still they vote against their own best interest (or they don’t vote)

    Amazing isn’t it? :-(

    ReplyReply
  142. 142
    dimmsdale says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I think cops can be dis-incented to shoot people, but it would take numerous high-profile convictions of shooter cops, and good stiff sentences, plus weeding out the most dangerous nut cases. That’ll never happen as long as cop unions go after civilian officials (including DAs) who try to bring these cops to justice, AND as long as DAs’ cases get sabotaged by lack of police cooperation. I’m absolutely pro-union, but police unions are to the rank and file as Fox News is to grandma and grandpa: fomenting hatred.

    Also, post-9/11, cops sort of presumptively got hero status, deserved or not, and white people (at least the ones I know) still see them that way. In NYC we used to have a Civilian Complaint Review Board; it was toothless and 9/11 put the kibosh on it, but some sort of trial board removed from the DAs’ responsibility might (MIGHT) work.

    ReplyReply
  143. 143
    lgerard says:

    So Sondland is now recasting himself as a coffee boy, in contrast to the precious press reports portraying him as a wanna be Machiavelli who declared himself in charge because “the president said so”.

    I can’t wait to see Rudy on Fox waving his iphone around saying he has proof that this story is totally false.

    ReplyReply
  144. 144
    debbie says:

    @Ruckus:

    I can go right now to any of the websites for LA stations and find video after video of shootings and cops getting shot at.

    Shootings are daily occurrences out here in flyover country too.

    ReplyReply
  145. 145
    Mandalay says:

    @TS (the original):

    It is IMPOSSIBLE to write any rules/regulations in relation to trump.

    Complete bullshit and nonsense.

    ReplyReply
  146. 146
    Redshift says:

    @Mary G: I dunno, to me that sounds more like “I’m not going to jail for this asshole” than trying to protect Trump but doing it incompetently.

    Maybe he got spooked by the arrest of the Ukrainians?

    ReplyReply
  147. 147
    Redshift says:

    @dmsilev:

    This is coming from a guy who gave Trump a million or so dollars for his inaugural.

    He thought he was buying status, not a subpoena.

    ReplyReply
  148. 148
    Citizen Alan says:

    @chris:

    People keep saying this, as if white supremacy wasn’t an “interest.”

    ReplyReply
  149. 149
    chris says:

    @Citizen Alan: Can’t disagree with that.

    ReplyReply
  150. 150
    rikyrah says:

    Woman shot through the window OF HER OWN HOME by the cops in Texas

    They didn’t even go to the door, pound on it, and say POLICE

    ReclaimingMyTime (@MonieTalks_1) Tweeted:
    Shot her through a window in her own fucking home.

    They killed Tamir Rice within seconds because he had a toy gun in which bullets were never fired.

    Killed Corey Jones & LEO never ID’ed himself.

    Killed Botham Jean after illegally entering his home while he ate ice cream. https://twitter.com/MonieTalks_1/status/1183213728017334272?s=17

    ReplyReply
  151. 151
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @dimmsdale: I thought you meant Biden, but these days you can’t be sure someone isn’t referring to Dump crashing and burning from punching himself in the dick on live TV too many times.

    ReplyReply
  152. 152
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Aleta: How about we offer Trump a quid pro quo.

    He can accept that quid pro quo at the end of the rope.

    In other words, no.

    ReplyReply
  153. 153
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Messed up the block quote there. ^^^ Should be the other way around.

    ReplyReply
  154. 154
    TS (the original) says:

    @NotMax:

    That Rispone is ahead of Abraham is more troubling, as Rispone is the one who campaigned as a Trumpaholic.

    Might be the savior for Edwards in the run off, must be some never trumpers among those who voted for the other republican

    ReplyReply
  155. 155
    TS (the original) says:

    @Mandalay: Complete bullshit and nonsense.

    Then start talking about which rules he is agreeing to follow. Your bullshit & nonsense IS just that.

    Edit: & why on earth I ever read your replies is quite the mystery.

    ReplyReply
  156. 156
    Lulymay says:

    @Dan B: Thought you might be interested to know that in B.C., I just heard that the Building Code has been amended to include mandatory wiring to accommodate plug-ins to charge EVs. As well, we’re into a Federal Election right now and the current Prime Minister’s platform includes a commitment to ensure there are charging stations available every so many kilometers right across Canada. Where I do my grocery shopping, there are 4 charging spots and they are kept very busy. (That’s in the greater Vancouver area)

    ReplyReply
  157. 157
    cain says:

    @debbie:

    Isn’t Russia already supporting Turkey?

    I’ve heard it both ways. (sorry, Psych reference)

    ReplyReply
  158. 158
    Mary G says:

    NEW – Trump had lunch with Giuliani today at his golf club, amid public displays of support for his lawyer who is under investigation by SDNY https://t.co/xqmgh6dl3E via ⁦@kenvogel⁩ and me— Maggie Haberman (@maggieNYT) October 13, 2019

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    sgrAstar says:

    @sukabi: trump is a symptom, not the disease. Biden would be far better than any republican. Period. I’m not a big Biden fan, but the guy is relatively decent and not corrupt. If he’s the candidate, we have to support him for the sake of all humanity. I’m not exaggerating.

    ReplyReply
  160. 160
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Mary G: Did Mags join them for lunch too to discuss NYT spin?

    ReplyReply
  161. 161
    Mary G says:

    @Mary G: Ken Vogel, too, because he’s still out to get Ukraine dirt on Biden. What a pair.

    ReplyReply
  162. 162
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @sgrAstar: If he’s the candidate

    We haven’t even had any primaries yet. Hell, we’re not even in the election year yet. We’ll close ranks for the general, but we’re still kicking the tires so to speak.

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    rikyrah says:

    @Mary G:
    Can’t stand Haberman😠😠

    ReplyReply
  164. 164
    David Evans says:

    @Lulymay: I think there will always be people for whom an electric car is impractical. Improving batteries will give longer range but also longer recharging times and longer queues at public charging points. For that reason we ought also to be developing hydrogen and/or biofuels.

    ReplyReply

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