Kurds Betrayed, Lindsay Graham Hardest Hit

It says something to me that of the several dozen people with whom I served in the army back in the day and every single person I know who served in the military, not one person thinks betraying the Kurds is a good idea and uniformly think of it as a disaster and something that would previously be unthinkable:

urkey sent warplanes and troops into northeastern Syria on Wednesday in a military operation aimed at flushing out an American-backed militia, Turkish and Syrian officials said.

The Turkish attack came amid a flurry of confusing policy statements from the White House, which on Sunday acquiesced to the operation, agreeing to move American forces out of the way, but on Wednesday, hours after it began, condemned it.

“The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea,” President Trump said in a statement on Wednesday.

Turkish fighter jets streaked through the sky over Syrian towns, while explosions from artillery shells boomed, causing traffic jams of terrified civilians fleeing south in trucks piled high with their possessions and children.

Subscribe for original insights, commentary and discussions on the major news stories of the week, from columnists Max Fisher and Amanda Taub.

After about six hours of airstrikes, Turkish troops and their Syrian rebel allies crossed the border late Wednesday, the Turkish Defense Ministry, beginning a ground offensive.

In a normal, sane, world, this would be the end of Trump, even among his diehards. I doubt we will hear a peep, though, even from the evangelicals, as Kurdish Christians are slaughtered at the hands of Erdogan.

But, as Trump stated, where were the Kurds at Normandy, or Pearl Harbor, for that matter? Or Vietnam. So fuck them, really.






169 replies
  1. 1
    David Evans says:

    BBC reporters on News 24 can usually find something to say. But after reading out the “Normandy” quote they were literally speechless.

    ReplyReply
  2. 2
    Kent says:

    Trump criticizes *the Kurds* for not helping America in WWII, “they didn’t help us with Normandy.” (!!!)

    The Israelis weren’t with us in Normandy either.* Or in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, or any other damn place where American troops have ever fought. But that doesn’t keep Trump from sticking his head all the way up Bibi’s ass.

    *and yes I know Israel wasn’t a country in 1944. Neither was Kurdistan.

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    Just One More Canuck says:

    And they didn’t help fight the Germans at Pearl Harbour

    Christ, what an asshole

    ReplyReply
  4. 4
    opiejeanne says:

    @Kent: And there’s Italy. They didn’t help us at Normandy either. (playing the absurdist)

    ReplyReply
  5. 5
    Chris says:

    In a society that can’t hold a fucking football game without turning it into a paean to the glory and honor of THE TROOPS!!! it remains staggering how free people feel to shit and piss on the people who do the bulk of the fighting and dying against America’s enemies.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6
    RAVEN says:

    @Kent: The Izzies had time to attack the USS Liberty.

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    “The Kurds didn’t help me dodge the Vietnam draft.” ~ Dump

    ReplyReply
  8. 8
    MattF says:

    Someone must have said the word ‘Normandy’, and after rattling around in T’s brain for a while, it spilled out. Random association.

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    jl says:

    Trump also claimed that the Kurds were too expensive and we spent a huge outsize amount of money supporting them [100 percent false by any sane standard].
    And, Turkey will pay a catastrophic price [how?] if it is not ‘fair’ to the Kurds, by standards the US will make up as things develop [senseless].

    Ridiculous. The GOP stands behind this toxic fool.

    ReplyReply
  10. 10
    rk says:

    Every day I ask myself “is it possible to loath a man so much and can I hate him more today than yesterday”? The answer is yes.

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @opiejeanne: Italy, hell. How helpful were the Germans at Normandy?

    ReplyReply
  12. 12
    Kent says:

    Why are people not labeling this as cowardice. If Obama did this the outrage machine would be screaming 24/7 about how America does not “cut and run”. I hope to got there are some good photojournalists over there who can document this because we are going to get some new images reminiscent of the famous final helicopters leaving the embassy compound in Saigon.

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @rk:

    Every day I ask myself “is it possible to loath a man so much and can I hate him more today than yesterday”? The answer is yes.

    LOL Same.

    But I can’t even bring myself to mock him on this “Normandy” shit.

    This is definitely when we start looking for a retirement home for Gramps.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
  15. 15
    NotMax says:

    Tomorrow’s tweets today:

    “Turkey makes Great Taffy. What the hell do the Kurds make?”

    //

    (reference for the young’uns)

    ReplyReply
  16. 16
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: not only were the Germans not helpful to us at Normandy, but one could almost argue that they were actively sabotaging our efforts there. Angela Merkel has blood on her hands.

    Why yes, I was a history major. Why do you ask?

    ReplyReply
  17. 17
    RAVEN says:

    I’ll be surprised if the Kurds don’t kill some GI’s behind this.

    ReplyReply
  18. 18
    Cacti says:

    Has anyone mentioned that Fred Trump, Sr. didn’t help us with WWII either?

    ReplyReply
  19. 19
    RAVEN says:

    Justice Department announced arrest of Defense Intelligence Agency employee Henry Kyle Frese for allegedly leaking sensitive information

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Talk about the kettle calling the pot black. How is Trump in a position to criticize anyone for not fighting when he got out of military service via fake bone spurs? Zero self awareness.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Cacti: or Prescott Bush. Isn’t it treason to finance the war effort of the people we are at war with?

    The GOP loves its crime families.

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Steve in the ATL: We’re not fighting you. We’re actively sabotaging your efforts.

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    opiejeanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I flirted with that one, but thought Germany was too obvious.

    ReplyReply
  24. 24
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @NotMax: Or: “Kurds don’t have any Trump Towers like Turkey does so screw them!”

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    Raven says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Speaking of not fighting. . .

    ReplyReply
  26. 26
    Mary G says:

    What’s the problem? He said this:

    As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over…— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 7, 2019

    I’m sure he’ll demolish the Turkish economy by the weekend.//

    Words fail, lips so tightly pursed.

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    hueyplong says:

    He let his slip show when he complained that the Kurds cost “us” Vicksburg.

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    Rommie says:

    By tomorrow Twitler will be telling us how awful the Kurds really are and how our Heroic NATO allies are just taking out more Bad Guys.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    MattF says:

    So, this is happening:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/PaulLidicul/status/1181987508202041344

    ETA: Unclear how real this is.

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    GregB says:

    Trump is also going Scarecrow by unleashing the inmates of Arkham on Gotham by gleefully declaring that all of the ISIS detainees held in Syria will be going to Europe.

    I assume this is an actual plan to push the anti-immigrant/Muslim hysteria and create more fascists.

    Dark times.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    Steeplejack says:

    @Raven:

    I switched over to MSNBC.

    No spoilers for people who aren’t home yet.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    NotMax says:

    @hueyplong

    Not a single solitary Kurd at the Bowling Green Massacre.

    ;)

    More seriously, while there are plenty of commonalities there also are schisms among (and within) Iraqi Kurd, Turkish Kurd, Iranian Kurd and Syrian Kurd populations.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    RAVEN says:

    @Steeplejack: Well at least they are throwing at batters.

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    trnc says:

    “The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea,” President Trump said in a statement on Wednesday.

    Wow! You can really feel the manliness coming off that statement. I bet Erdogan stopped dead in his tracks and called for an immediate retreat of his troops. If anyone sees them overrunning Kurds, it must be fake news!

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    hells littlest angel says:

    The Kurds wanted to help us in Vietnam, but they couldn’t. Bone spurs.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    Steeplejack says:

    @MattF:

    Not real, according to a comment by Lidicul himself.

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Raven: I’m down to college football as my only sport until pitchers and catchers report next spring!

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Steeplejack says:

    @RAVEN:

    They’re probably screwing that up too.

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    I knew our luck would run out. I just didn’t know what losing our luck would look like.
    Now, I know-genocide 😪😪😪

    Those responsible for Dolt45 will NEVER EVER BE FORGIVEN 😠 😠

    ReplyReply
  40. 40
    NotMax says:

    @Steve in the ATL

    Curling season is just around the corner.

    :)

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    MattF says:

    @Steeplejack: I guess I should try harder to maintain my connection to reality. Hmmm.

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    Yutsano says:

    @rikyrah:
    Not.
    One.
    Iota.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43

    Here’s an explanation of that idiot quote.

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Mary G says:

    Heartbreaking thread by a Fox News (!) reporter who spoke to an American soldier in Syria:

    I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken."I am ashamed for the first time in my career."— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

    She says the Kurds are as close to Westerners as anyone in the Middle East, that atrocities are happening, but the Kurds are sticking to their fighting and guarding ISIS prisons positions still, hoping for American help to come back. She ends with:

    This US Special Forces soldier wanted me to know: "The Kurds are sticking by us. No other partner I have ever dealt with would stand by us."Disappointed in the decisions coming from their senior leaders.— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

    We don’t deserve their loyalty. God.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    lurker dean says:

    from a fox news national security correspondent of all people. there’s an entire thread. it’s bleak. this is judas-level betrayal.

    I just spoke to a distraught US Special Forces soldier who is among the 1000 or so US troops in Syria tonight who is serving alongside the SDF Kurdish forces. It was one of the hardest phone calls I have ever taken."I am ashamed for the first time in my career."— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    And where was Turkey at Normandy, Pearl Harbor, Vieynam???

    And didn’t Turkey fight on Germany’s side in WWI??

    Trump is an ignoramus. So are his supporters.

    And they are all proud of their ignorance!

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    sanjeevs says:

    Trump said: “Well, they’re going to be escaping to Europe. That’s where they want to go; they want to go back to their homes, but Europe didn’t want them from us.”

    The president said the relationship between the US and its European allies had not been “reciprocal” when it came to combating the Islamic State.

    Trump as usual is giving the game away here.
    Trump and Putin want to recreate the conditions of 2014 and 2015 in Europe where Middle East refugees flocked to Europe whilst Middle East terrorists created atrocities.
    The conditions that helped lead to the rise of the pro-Putin far right in Europe.

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    Steeplejack says:

    @MattF:
    Lidicul’s fatuous justification:

    Whether that banner was physically or digitally put there is irrelevant – the statement is MADE, the public outrage is REAL and the message is spread.

    If you're following me, I'd think you'd already understand that.

    — Paul Lidicul (@PaulLidicul) October 9, 2019

    And he scarpers from the criticism:

    I don't have time for this… 3… 2… 1… BUY bye now ;)

    — Paul Lidicul (@PaulLidicul) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    JaySinWA says:

    He said somebody wrote a powerful article that mentioned Normandy and other battles. Has anyone found something that this riff is from? Somewhere in the fevered swamps? Or is this one of the “sir” moments, attributing nonsense to his imaginary columnist?
    ETA I see @Cheryl Rofer: found the culprit.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    Repatriated says:

    @trnc:

    “The United States does not endorse this attack and has made it clear to Turkey that this operation is a bad idea,” President Trump said in a statement on Wednesday

    In other words, we’re too weak to stop them.

    Great.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Were were the Kurds at Valley Forge? Absent

    Agua Nueva 1835? Absent without leave!

    At Fort Pillow in 1864? 16 MIA!

    Winded Knee? The same?

    My Lai? Not a Kurd in sight.

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Didn’t Ford build panzers for German army and IBM supply method and equipment to Nazis to locate Jewish ancestry and track down people with it?

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    sanjeevs says:

    @JaySinWA: see Cheryl at 43 above

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    waspuppet says:

    @Repatriated: Does anyone else in that “administration” ever make statements? Or is he too much of a diva and drama queen to let anyone else do anything?

    ReplyReply
  55. 55

    @opiejeanne:

    And there’s Italy. They didn’t help us at Normandy either. (playing the absurdist)

    Attorney General Barr is trying to get to the bottom of that as we speak.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    Chris says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I was wondering how long it would take before the “they’re all commies anyway” defense of genocide would come in.

    Rojava is running, or claims to be running, as an anarcho-socialist state. The minute I first read that about them, I was like “there is no way in hell this story doesn’t end with the West throwing them to the dogs.” In virtually any other context, this is the kind of movement that has us all screaming “ACK! KILL IT! KILL IT WITH FIRE! BURY IT IN THE DESERT! WEAR GLOVES!”

    I’m, if anything, kind of surprised that it took them this long to get around to making this argument (though the utter ignorance of the region probably contributed – there’s lots of stories of good God-bothering Christian fundamentalists traveling to Syria to fight the Evil Muslims, only to discover to their shock that all their Kurdish friends are left-wing feminist devil-worshipers).

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @Raven:

    Minor point but it wasn’t.

    That article is from the NY Post, it’s right wing historical revisionism.

    The photo is an easy one to trace and it always has been. It was taken by Hugh van Es at the Pittman Apartments, 22 Gia Long Street.

    Pittman housed USAID and CIA employees. It is those who are being evacuated. The Huey belonged to Air America (CIA).

    So while it is not actually of the embassy, it’s certainly of US officials and employees making a panicked departure from Saigon.

    I don’t quite understand how the Post being ignorant of this makes the Saigon evacuation any less of a shambolic rout that left tens of thousands of Vietnamese loyalists to the tender mercies of the North, or how that rout now suddenly becomes honorable as a result of that photo.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    hueyplong says:

    @Mary G: What is this “senior leaders” bullshit? It’s Trump, and only Trump. FFS.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    Mary G says:

    Bloomberg has another leak about something else:

    President Donald Trump pressed then-Secretary of State Rex Tillerson to help persuade the Justice Department to drop a criminal case against an Iranian-Turkish gold trader who was a client of Rudy Giuliani, according to three people familiar with the 2017 meeting in the Oval Office.

    Tillerson refused, arguing it would constitute interference in an ongoing investigation of the trader, Reza Zarrab, according to the people. They said other participants in the Oval Office were shocked by the request.

    The House staff responsible for typing up the Articles of Impeachment are all going to have severe carpel tunnel disease.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61

    @NotMax:

    Turkey makes Great Taffy. What the hell do the Kurds make?

    Cheese?

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    RAVEN says:

    @Viva BrisVegas: Did I say that? It wasn’t the fucking embassy.

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    Ryan says:

    What is a Normandy? What was WWII? Where were they recently? Were they there with us in Iraq, against ISIS? what is the discount rate on being there for Normandy? Were they even free to act in the 1940s given the British and French?

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    Mary G says:

    @hueyplong: Soldiers aren’t allowed to diss the preznit, I think. He came as close as he could without being brought up on charges.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: This man have dementia? That quote comes across like he has no short term memory.

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    JaySinWA says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    They’re fighting for the land

    Sounds like a “blood and soil” paraphrase.

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    debbie says:

    @Repatriated:

    this operation is a bad idea

    AND YET HE SET IT IN MOTION!!!

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    Repatriated says:

    @waspuppet: Fair point.

    So to clarify my previous remark, Trump is saying that HE is too weak to stop them.

    Great?

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    Repatriated says:

    @Roger Moore: No, whey!

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    Repatriated says:

    @debbie:

    AND YET HE SET IT IN MOTION!!!

    That’s just his “great and unmatched wisdom” in action.

    So much wising we’ll get tired of all that wising.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    Mike in NC says:

    When our Great Patriotic Minutemen were busy securing the airports during the Revolutionary War, where were those damn rotten Kurds?

    Fat Bastard is ready for his straightjacket fitting.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    Repatriated says:

    Duplicate post deleted.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    cain says:

    I’m sure Germany is next. They didn’t help us at Normandy either. Assholes.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    JaySinWA says:

    @NotMax: Don’t forget Turkish delight. Here’s some Kurdish food for thought https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_cuisine

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    Ksmiami says:

    @rikyrah: how about those responsible for Dolt 45 better look for a new country?…

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    delk says:

    Probably overheard someone calling him Norma Desmond and that got rattling around the part of his brain not occupied by Obama and Hillary.

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    Mnemosyne says:

    Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you were only kidding, Lindsey. Sucks for you, but sucks WAY worse for the thousands of people whose murders you enabled.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    Timurid says:

    Saladin didn’t defend Cahokia against the Algonquin horde, so the Kurds can fuck right off…

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    Jay says:

    Keep in mind, that this is the YPG.

    They were surrounded by ISIL in Kobane, for weeks, with Turkey blocking all help and actively aiding ISIL, not only did they not give up, destroying ISIL VBIED’s and T-64 tanks with sheer heroism,

    They sent flying columns across ISIL lines into Iraq, to rescue and evacuate the Yazidi from Mt. Sinjar, with only assistance from the PPK, while everyone else, either tried to stop them or ran away.

    The Turks are using their proxy Radical Islamic Terrorists, ( including rebranded ISIL and al Quida) as cannon fodder, so don’t count Rojova out yet.

    It’s past time that the rest of the Coelition realizes that in Royjova, the Turks, ISIL and the US are the enemy.

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @Ladyraxterinok: yes, but we never declared war on the Ottoman Empire or Bulgaria, the 3d and 4th parties in the “Central Powers.”

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    Mnemosyne says:

    @RAVEN:

    Poor bastard is probably one of the whistleblowers.

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    Chris says:

    @Timurid:

    Bigly kudos for knowing that Saladin was a Kurd.

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    FelonyGovt says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: They weren’t at Bowling Green either.

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    patrick II says:

    @opiejeanne:
    I would bet, if a reporter asked him ” Italy didn’t help us at Normandy either, why are they our friends?” He wouldn’t know the answer, or the basis for the question for that matter.

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    gene108 says:

    @Kent:

    From what I have seen on Twitter right-wingers are all about bringing the troops home, let the murderous Muslims murder each (why should we care?), and end these endless wars by bringing all troops home & let the chips fall where they may.

    I think they will believe anything to defend Trump.

    ReplyReply
  86. 86
    germy says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Can’t shake the devil’s hand and say you were only kidding, Lindsey.

    Yes, Trump is Graham’s Racist Friend.

    ReplyReply
  87. 87
    Jay says:

    @gene108:

    And yet I’m old enough to remember when they said that we had to fight them there, before they could take over all the overpasses in the USA.

    ReplyReply
  88. 88
    germy says:

    Lindsey Graham in 1998 during Clinton’s impeachment saying, “The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment.” pic.twitter.com/7mlBgfJ2Q6
    — andrew kaczynski🤔 (@KFILE) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  89. 89
    Kent says:

    New Fox news poll: 51% of Americans want Trump impeached and removed from office:

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/fox

    Wow……. Going well for him. Yes, please drag this whole thing out for 12 more months. Awesome strategy.

    ReplyReply
  90. 90
    Jay says:

    .@LindseyGrahamSC @senatemajldr This is the greatest betrayal by America as Trump orders US military to ignore requests for help by the Kurds as they are under air assault. https://t.co/VGsqpn9omN— Olga Lautman (@olgaNYC1211) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @RAVEN:

    Did I say that? It wasn’t the fucking embassy.

    Did I say you said it? I said it was the fucking NY Post.

    Why even link to a Trumpist rag pushing a revisionist agenda without adding some suitable mockery?

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    RAVEN says:

    @Viva BrisVegas: Because I didn’t pay attention to the paper.

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    Jay says:

    This American soldier told me the Kurds have not left their positions guarding the ISIS prisoners. In fact "they prevented a prison break last night without us." "They are not abandoning our side (yet)."The Kurds are "pleading for our support." We are doing "nothing."— Jennifer Griffin (@JenGriffinFNC) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    Jay says:

    #BREAKING as @Newsweek learns that counter #ISIS operations in #Syria have ceased — U.S. Forces Face Increased Danger in Syria from Trump's withdrawal and Turkey's offensive #Trump #Turkey #Kurds https://t.co/NYotw3DsLt— James LaPorta (@JimLaPorta) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    Jay says:

    Stuck in moderation again.

    ReplyReply
  96. 96
    BC in Illinois says:

    Daniel Dale
    @ddale8
    Trump says he goes to Dover Air Force base to greet slain soldiers “when I can.” Telling a detailed story, he says that families smile when they see him and thank him for coming, and he thought they were taking the death “so well,” but then the coffin comes and they “scream.”
    3:37 PM · Oct 9, 2019

    The man is devoid of human feeling.

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    cain says:

    @Jay:

    And yet I’m old enough to remember when they said that we had to fight them there, before they could take over all the overpasses in the USA.

    We had to fight them over here before they come here and fighting with us in traffic.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    MomSense says:

    Where the hell were Normay and Nambia?!?!1!!11!

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    gene108 says:

    @patrick II:

    would bet, if a reporter asked him ” Italy didn’t help us at Normandy either, why are they our friends?” He wouldn’t know the answer, or the basis for the question for that matter.

    You will never catch Trump speechless. He’ll ramble in vague terms that mean nothing. Maybe a big burly Italian man came to him, with tears in his eyes and said, “ Sir, Italy will die without American friendship. You save our country. Only you, sir, can save us by being friends”.

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    Jeffro says:

    Hey for giggles, just picture if Hillz had betrayed the Kurds like this, and THEN added in the “Normandy” comment afterwards.

    I know, I know…

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    BC in Illinois says:

    @BC in Illinois:
    And a response:

    “When I can.”

    Number of times Trump has visited Dover AFB since becoming president,
    acc. to @NPR
    : 2.

    Number of times Trump has visited a Trump golf course since becoming president, acc. to @kylegriffin1
    : 235.

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    Jay says:

    “It is in your interest to negotiate with the Syrian state and come to an understanding.”“The Americans will sell you out in any souq [marketplace], at any time,” he said. https://t.co/v1pTEsgBHr— Alison Meuse (@AliTahmizian) October 9, 2019

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    Jeffro says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: He’s latching on to that PKK nonsense ‘cause he thinks it somehow smears Obama.

    Jesus what a scumbag

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    CarolPW says:

    So yesterday there was a guest editorial in the WaPo by Fahrettin Altun, Turkey’s communications director. The first sentence is “During a phone call with President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on Sunday, President Trump agreed to transfer the leadership of the counter-Islamic State campaign to Turkey. The Turkish military, together with the Free Syrian Army, will cross the Turkish-Syrian border shortly.”

    Has anyone talked about this “transfer of leadership” or did no one one read it? Seems pretty horrifying to me.

    ReplyReply
  105. 105
    Dave P says:

    I’ve long believed that the only thing that would cause Trump’s base to turn against him would be if he was caught in bed with two boys named Ahmed and Julio. But I’m beginning to think the wingnuts have guzzled so much Fox News Kool-Aid that even that wouldn’t cause a dent in his support.

    ReplyReply
  106. 106
    Mick McDick says:

    fuck the kurds, they don’t vote for us anyway
    {sarcasm alert}

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jeffro:

    Note the slam against Adam Schiff. That’s not just random — Schiff has pissed off the Turkish government more than once by pushing for official recognition of the Armenian Genocide. His constituency is heavily Armenian American, so it’s a big deal locally.

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  108. 108
    cain says:

    @Dave P:

    I’ve long believed that the only thing that would cause Trump’s base to turn against him would be if he was caught in bed with two boys named Ahmed and Julio. But I’m beginning to think the wingnuts have guzzled so much Fox News Kool-Aid that even that wouldn’t cause a dent in his support.

    It wouldn’t. They’ll laugh because it would annoy the libs. They’ll keep voting for this man because it pisses them off.

    We are at the stage of when a man shoots himself in front of a doctor and laughs because he frustrated the doctor from saving him.

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  109. 109
    Jay says:

    So much hope. So many prayers. So little action. pic.twitter.com/wXbcGEA2Wy— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) October 9, 2019

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  110. 110
    Steeplejack says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Where’s the Adam Schiff slam? Not seeing it in the links.

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  111. 111
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Jay:

    So much hope. So many prayers. So little action.

    I’m still waiting for the day a massacre occurs and the attacker has “thoughts” and “prayers” painted on the side of a pair of weapons, thus rendering the usual post-massacre pablum even more insensitive to the victims.

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  112. 112
    Jay says:

    BTW, the YPG is not going to “slaughter” the 70,000 ISIL prisoners they are holding, ( some 10,000 fighters, some 2,000 of whom are Westerners, some 60,000 women and children).

    What will happen is when they can no longer afford to guard them, they will release them, unarmed.

    Some, Turkey will allow to pass through their territory to return home, and form new ISIL terrorist cells, not just in the West, but across Asia, Africa and the Middle East.

    The Syrian and Iraqi ISIL members will be rebranded as FSA, and will be armed and supported again by Turkey.

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  113. 113
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Steeplejack:

    It’s in the Schlicter article that Trump is cribbing from, not something Trump said. Look for “Schiffs and giggles”:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/bbofun/status/1182058297689612289

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  114. 114
    Jay says:

    This is the second time in 2 weeks that the @washingtonpost gave Turkey opinion space to push their propaganda.On September 29th, they published this by Erdogan, the President of Turkey, wherein he pretends he's a fierce defender of journalism & truth.https://t.co/TJMNL2qdQw— Avi Bueno (@Avi_Bueno) October 9, 2019

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  115. 115
    Jay says:

    This weak WH statement is a bright green light for a Turkish invasion. It also makes no sense. It says Turkey is “now responsible” for ISIS prisoners. But those prisoners are in an SDF-guarded camp 230km away from the Turkish attack zone. pic.twitter.com/yEjdtwIiUK— Brett McGurk (@brett_mcgurk) October 9, 2019

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  116. 116

    @Mnemosyne:
    It’s not just the thing about Schiff making a big deal about the Armenian Genocide. They also hate him because he’s Jewish.

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  117. 117
    Kraux Pas says:

    It also makes no sense. It says Turkey is “now responsible” for ISIS prisoners. But those prisoners are in an SDF-guarded camp 230km away from the Turkish attack zone.

    Of course. Would we ever expect Trump to pay more than lip service to any concern that doesn’t directly involve him?

    He heard people complaining about the potential freeing of ISIS prisoners and decided to tweet about it as though it were fait accompli and probably envisions a battle front that is no more than a small contingent of Kurd soldiers (maybe a few hundred, equivalent to the biggest crowd he’s ever seen) amassed around a prison labeled ISIS. So of course he thinks “what’s the big deal?”

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  118. 118
    Mary G says:

    Cool history thread:

    Thirty years ago, an admirer of Václav Havel expressed his appreciation of the dissident playwright on his 53rd birthday by submitting a glowing tribute to the birthday greetings section of the Czechoslovak Communist Party official paper Rudé Právo. (Thread) pic.twitter.com/bZEmVGPH5I— Paula Kennedy (@PMKennedy123) October 5, 2019

    You never know what will overturn a tyrant.

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  119. 119
    Jay says:

    For Sister Golden Bear,

    I am in awe of @KristinMinkDC, who, with baby in arm, took over the TERFs’ podium and led a chant of “trans women are women” while this dudebro sputtered: “You’re on my stage! Get off my stage!”#RiseUpOctober8 pic.twitter.com/JZbwlq2nsG— Charlotte Clymer🏳️‍🌈 (@cmclymer) October 8, 2019

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  120. 120
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Roger Moore:

    And I’m sure their Russian mob buddies hate Schiff because of his successful prosecutions of their comrades. So many reasons to hate him. 🤔

    ReplyReply
  121. 121
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @BC in Illinois: Devoid of human feeling and devoid of normal human description of things.

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  122. 122
    Raoul says:

    @Kent: I think calling Trump weak is a key lever. It happens to be stunningly true. But it also gets at his one remaining power. He still makes GOPers jump. They have to understand that WE understand that Trump is a classic, cowardly bully.

    He can tweet a mean streak like no body’s business. But he can’t stomach actual conflict. He collapses and makes terrible, awful ‘deals’. The jig is up, and it has to be damned obvious.

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  123. 123
    Jay says:

    Scoop: Blizzard employees walked out of work yesterday over the company's decision to ban a pro-Hong-Kong professional Hearthstone player. They held an all-day protest at the Orc statue in the center of the company's Irvine campus. https://t.co/bWNbMiovws— Blake Montgomery 💀 (@blakersdozen) October 9, 2019

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  124. 124
    Jay says:

    New details on the Halle shooting. The shooter live-streamed his attack to Twitch. It was taken down, but not before it had been capped and shared on white-supremacist Telegram channels to tens of thousands of users who hailed the shooter as a saint. https://t.co/VCYHHIbFLw— Brandy Zadrozny (@BrandyZadrozny) October 9, 2019

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  125. 125
    Jay says:

    #BREAKING -So sad. Westchester's Holocaust memorial, the Garden of Remembrance, was just vandalized with hate symbols. Latimer- "We are enraged by this act and heartbroken that individuals would target members of our community on the most solemn day in their tradition" @News12WC— Tara Rosenblum (@tararosenblum) October 8, 2019

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  126. 126
    Jeffro says:

    I guess whether or not allies were “with us at Normandy” is the new standard.

    How exciting for Japan, South Korea, India, Italy, the Scandinavian countries (BUT NOT FINLAND THATS DIFFERENT), Australia (I probably have that one wrong), and also Covefefe-Land and Wirchistan.

    You were either us, or the Brits, or Canadian, or that’s it. So F U, Kurds.

    It must be so soothing to be a wingnut and just amazeballs to be the Ultimate Wingnut, trumpov. Nothing gets in, and nothing sensible gets out. Ahhhhhhh

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  127. 127
    Jay says:

    Because news,….

    How is this new, detailed sexual assault allegation against the president not a major story today? https://t.co/GD7NL6S1Uq— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) October 9, 2019

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  128. 128
    Raoul says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: This Normandy thing is a prime example of how Trump’s tiny, paranoid media world is feeding him such utter bullshit that, to those not glued to Fox, it comes off as more and more insane. Because it is.

    Don’t know if it’ll get him unelected (and FSM willing, more GOP Senators unelected), but it damn should.

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  129. 129
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jeffro:

    FWIW, the ANZACs were there (Australia and New Zealand).

    http://www.ddoughty.com/-normandy.html

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  130. 130
    Raoul says:

    @sanjeevs: Indeed, this is how Hungary got cemented into an illiberal sham-democracy under Orban.

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  131. 131
    trnc says:

    @BC in Illinois: Daniel Dale

    @ddale8
    Trump says he goes to Dover Air Force base to greet slain soldiers “when I can.” Telling a detailed story, he says that families smile when they see him and thank him for coming, and he thought they were taking the death “so well,” but then the coffin comes and they “scream.”
    3:37 PM · Oct 9, 2019

    This sounds like the opening of a Tommy Wiseau movie.

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  132. 132
    Raoul says:

    @Mary G: So, multiple witnesses to the corrupt request. Well, done, anonymous ‘Dex Willerson’. Keep leaking.

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  133. 133

    @Jeffro: India was there both in WWI and WWII, with blood and also keeping Britain fed and flush with money. Hollywood has done a great job whitewashing history.

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  135. 135
    Zzyzx says:

    @Jay: I’ve been fasting today and as we finally get closer to sunset, I’ve been reading the news again. This is why I want to punch any Jew who defends the alt-right on grounds that Muslims are our enemies. If nothing else, the same nationalists will always come after us.

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  136. 136
    mad citizen says:

    Haven’t been able to read all the threads today but I can’t believe the things that are happening. Getting out of the Open Skies treaty just went totally under the radar (not here, talking general media). I watched the ABC nightly news last night, and wondered why they don’t show and say the exact language of trumpov’s tweets. It’s truly insane. Either his party/Senators impeach him, or that whole party is going down down down.

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  137. 137
    Jay says:

    And while we’re on the subject of selective indignation: https://t.co/gINxsoyLS6— Michael Weiss (@michaeldweiss) October 9, 2019

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  138. 138
    Viva BrisVegas says:

    @Jeffro:

    Australia (I probably have that one wrong)

    Australia had about 3,000 personnel at Normandy. Mostly Air Force, plus men aboard Royal Navy vessels. Only a couple landed ashore.

    The rest of them were busy helping the US fight the Japanese.

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  139. 139
    Jay says:

    @Zzyzx:

    Yup.

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  140. 140
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Chris: On my shelf there sits a signed first hardback edition of an action-adventure novel titled The Second Saladin by Stephen Hunter, in which a Kurdish freedom fighter crosses the Mexican border into the USA determined to assassinate a (never named) prominent American political figure who has consigned his people to the tender mercies of a brutal dictator.

    Sound familiar? The novel was published in 1982, and the political figure is never named – but remarkably enough, in 1975 one Henry Kissinger and the Shah of Iran cut off support for the Iraqi Kurds who had rebelled against one Saddam Hussein & abandoned them to a vicious retribution. Kissinger famously said, “fuck the Kurds if they can’t take a joke” and “covert action should not be confused with missionary work.”

    And this in turn is entirely separate from Saddam’s Kurdish genocide of 1986-88, which killed upwards of 100,000 Iraqi Kurds. The awful history of those unfortunate people just repeats and repeats and repeats… :^(

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  141. 141
    sukabi says:

    You know who didn’t help his country with Viet Nam…Mr. Bone Spurs, who chose to be a coward instead of a soldier. Always putting his own self interests first.

    Adding that the ONLY reason he chose Normandy as his “justification” is to not draw attention to his own cowardly past.

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  142. 142
    NotMax says:

    @Jay

    an all-day protest at the Orc statue

    “I’ll retire to Bedlam.”
      – E. Scrooge

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  143. 143
    Jay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yup, like France, or Canada.

    In 1939, France was still a nation of widows. Their Collonial troops bore the brunt of early WWII.

    The Canadian War Cemetery in S’pore contains also the Indians who died alongside their Canadian comrades.

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  144. 144
    Jay says:

    Reading through documents posted online by the Halle shooter, including images of weapons used that match those in the live-streamed video. It includes an achievements list, which really drives home the point @IwriteOK made about the gamification of terror https://t.co/GBuyCOdhzf— Eliot Higgins (@EliotHiggins) October 9, 2019

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  145. 145
    Jay says:

    On the outskirts of #RasAlAin earlier following Turkish bombardment of the town. We are the only US network here in #syria . pic.twitter.com/BT9Fh5PCzG— Clarissa Ward (@clarissaward) October 9, 2019

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  146. 146
    Chris says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Don’t forget that in the 1980s genocide, the Reagan administration reacted to Saddam’s gas attacks on his Kurdish population by… covering for him and trying to blame Iran instead.

    It’s very much a history of the Kurds being fucked, not just by Americans, but very specifically by Republican administrations. Dubya is probably the only one of them who dealt with them without being linked to an atrocity on this scale, which is a jaw-dropping moment of “Fezzik… You did something right!” considering how comprehensively catastrophic he otherwise was.

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  147. 147
    Jay says:

    ISIL and Turkey have put the band back together.

    Al Basil HQ and checkpoints are target of the attacks. About 60 Daesh militants are involved. Note that this is not attempt of a cell, but a coordinated and organized attempt by ISIS to seize control of the city.— zana amedi (@zana_medi) October 8, 2019

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  148. 148
    japa21 says:

    Just occurred to me. Trump can’t do anything (not really can’t but won’t) about what Turkey is doing because if he comes out to hard on Turkey or tries to stop them Erdogan can release a transcript, or even worse, a recording of their call.
    SO many countries have so much leverage over us because of him.

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  149. 149
    Jeffro says:

    @Mnemosyne: @Viva BrisVegas: @Viva BrisVegas: @Viva BrisVegas: @schrodingers_cat:

    Thank you and apologies all around – I knew I didn’t know enough

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  150. 150
    Peale says:

    @Jay: no no no. ISIS is a creation of the CIA to continue the forever war and sell weapons. That’s my story and I’m sticking with it.

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  151. 151
    Jay says:

    @Chris:

    Dubya called for their revolt. Kurds and Shia.

    Then denied them access to captured weapons for their revolt,

    Allowed Saddam’s military to crush them,

    The Shia fled to the swamps and Iran, and got slaughtered in the process,

    The Iraqi Kurds fled to the mountains where starving, dying Kurds made hours of media coverage,

    Only then, with the bad media coverage did Dubya and the West give a rats ass about the Kurds.

    Still no rats ass given about the Shia.

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  152. 152
    Doug R says:

    I’ll tell you who was at Normandy. The Canadians and British-who were also in the White House in 1814-burning it.

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  153. 153
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @JPL: Fight the Sexual Revolution apparently. And all snark aside WTF is up with Evangelicals they just blow that off.

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  154. 154
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Jay: The Shia have the Iranians to give a shit about them, and that what was so idiotic about the whole episdose; Bushes and the Neocons wanted Saddam overthrown, but only by the right people.

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  155. 155
    Repatriated says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: What’s up is that they’re backing Trump not because they’re Evangelical, but for the same reasons they’re Evangelical. Those reasons don’t necessarily include genuine piety, but do include self-identity.

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  156. 156
    Chris says:

    @Jay:

    … what?

    That was HW. Dubya’s dad. 1990-91, not 2003-present.

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  157. 157
    jl says:

    Listening to more of Trump’s moronic presser. I wonder if he thinks the US captured all the ISIS/ISIL fighters and the US troops are the ones holding them. Otherwise I can’t make any sense of his babble. What this ass Trump says is so tenuously connected to reality and so inarticulate, hard to figure what he even means. He thinks escaped ISIL fighter are going back to Europe? Why? they left Europe to fight in the Middle East. What a fool. but he is such an idiot, worrying about he gets ‘reciprocal’, it’s a good thing is monstrous talk about the prisoners going back to Europe is nonsense.

    The GOP back this low grade idiot.

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  158. 158
  159. 159
    Jay says:

    @Chris:

    Ah, you mean Dubya Dubya Me Too, not the og Dubya.

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  160. 160
    japa21 says:

    If Erdogan thought there were demonstrations against him the last time he was here, I have one thing to tell him. “You ain’t seen nothing yet.”
    And his thuggish bodyguards won’t be able to make a dent in them.

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  161. 161
    Jay says:

    @jl:

    Some 2,000 or so of the ISIL fighters still have Western Passports.

    Some are off Western Radar.

    Ergodan will let them pass through Turkey and go home when the YPG releases them.

    Some 4,000 or so come from other areas of the Middle East, Africa, South Asia. Turkey will let them go home too.

    And there are some 60,000 ISIL women and children in the camps of whom, some who will go “home” too.

    The rest will join Turkey’s rebranded ISIL and al Quida as cannon fodder in their war against the YPG and Syria.

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  162. 162
    jl says:

    @Jay: But, I don’t understand why people who went to the Middle East to fight there, will want to go back home to wherever they came from. What do you mean by ‘home’?

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    NotMax says:

    @jl

    There are certainly cases of their family vigorously pressing for their return.

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  164. 164
    Jay says:

    @jl:

    So, a bunch of the ISIL western recruits, learned that Middle Eastern lifestyles wern’t up to Western Standards. Lots of grains, little meat. No Mickey D’s, no fries.

    No 4th Amendment, no Miranda.

    So a bunch of them want to go “home”, where in most cases, even a multi year jail sentence, has better conditions than a Middle Eastern village or town.

    And they get to bring jihad to the decadent West.

    Most of the people who went to support Royjova, understood that they were taking the “wayback machine” in living standards, but did so because they wanted to build a better world for others.

    Most of the people who went to ISIL are like ReThugs base, dreaming of a patriarchy that never really existed, other than for a select few.

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  165. 165
    Jay says:

    A map of confirmed Turkish airstrikes today in Rojava. https://t.co/QOApEqiaVE— Jake Hanrahan (@Jake_Hanrahan) October 10, 2019

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  166. 166
    MoCA Ace says:

    I too am to horrified to even mock that subhuman piece of shit.
    As an “out” liberal in a pretty conservative area I have been accused by people I know of hating America. Today I could honestly answer yeah… a little. Our betrayal of the Kurds fills me with shame.

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  167. 167
    Jay says:

    Along with many other organizations, we are calling for people around the world to take action at Turkish consulates, US government offices, arms manufacturers, and elsewhere to protest the Turkish invasion of #Rojava. Please circulate!Call to action: https://t.co/uhg9SlHeAU pic.twitter.com/V3J5Km2Ty3— CrimethInc. (@crimethinc) October 9, 2019

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  168. 168
    Jay says:

    Kobanî, the city that resisted ISIS for months and paved the way for its defeat is now being shelled by Turkish army.— Mustafa Bali (@mustefabali) October 9, 2019

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  169. 169
    Jinchi says:

    I doubt we will hear a peep, though, even from the evangelicals

    Apparently Pat Robertson is horrified.

    ReplyReply

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