Now everybody who has talked hot shit at Nancy Pelosi all these months keep that same energy and get after Moscow Mitch. https://t.co/yao7GGclul
— Wakandan War Dog (@Kennymack1971) October 4, 2019
After this week, I think we’re entitled to a little gloating. Karen Tumulty, in the Washington Post, “This might be the worst impeachment news of all for Trump”:
As the president of the United States rants and rages about the prospect of his impeachment, the woman who set the gears in motion is a study in serenity.
“I feel very at peace with all of this, very at peace,” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) told me in an interview Wednesday…
For many months, Pelosi had resisted the calls within her party to commence the process that could lead to Trump’s impeachment. What forced her hand, the speaker said, were the facts, the sheer impropriety of Trump pressuring Ukraine’s president to turn up dirt on Trump’s leading presidential rival, former vice president Joe Biden.
“He has committed impeachable offenses even before this, but I do think this is more easily understandable by the public,” Pelosi said. “He gave us no choice. And if he doesn’t understand and the Republicans can’t grasp that — the fact that he undermined our national security, our Constitution and our electoral system — that’s their problem.”
Pelosi remains determined not to give in to the impulses of some Democrats to make impeachment a vehicle for everything about the president that stirs their rage. All of that should await November 2020, she said, when voters will have their opportunity to weigh in on Trump’s policies, his temperament and his character…
In the meantime, Trump’s chief adversary at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue is settling in for the duration, however long it might be. “I have never talked about any timeline. I don’t have the timeline,” Pelosi said. “It will go expeditiously — that is to say, we’ll use the time well to get the facts. We’re not moving hastily, though.”
For a president who grows more agitated by the day, that might be the worst news of all.
What we do know is that the first 2 weeks have gone well for Dems on almost every front: D party unity is high, public opinion has swing in their favor, Trump's defenses are feeble and (most importantly) the fact pattern has been very unfavorable for the White House.
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 4, 2019
It's like if an NFL team trades for a quarterback and their season starts out great and they go 6-1. You can argue, I suppose, that they should have traded for a *different* QB and that they'd be 7-0 if they had. But the burden of proof for that argument is pretty darn high.
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) October 4, 2019
Mary G
So tired of men giving women in politics the “ur doing it rong” treatment. It’s the 21st century, get over yourselves.
satby
@Mary G: why should politics be any different than life?
satby
My newly neutered porch kitty, now christened Billy officially but called Buddy, has become a very well behaved boy who loves having a comfy bed to sleep in. He was coming down to cry at the front door regularly but seems to have accepted that he’s not going out any more, so that’s stopped. Another success story of a former street cat rehabbed. Too bad there’s so damn many still out there.
Good morning and have a good day everyone! Off to market I go.
Jeffro
I see that “Richard Ketay” is trending on Twitter right now…yes, THAT ‘Richard Ketay’.
You know…the one who can’t be found on Google or social media and appears to have been created, whole cloth, in trumpov’s mind? He’s the David Dennison of John Barrons, it seems.
Actually it gets better. “Richard Ketay” recently wrote a letter to the editor of the New York Post. Oddly enough, “Richard Ketay”s letter a) only appeared in the print edition and b) sounds a lot like a certain idiot occupying 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
Have at it, reporters! You know what to do!
Betty Cracker
I suspect more whistleblowers have or will emerge, though we probably won’t hear about it for a while since there’s a process to go through before allegations are made public. Did anyone see The Post article on the embarrassing shit-show Trump makes of calls to foreign leaders?
It’s a deeply sourced article, and officials describe Trump’s manner toward Putin as “obsequious” and “fawning.” As in public, Trump sucks up to dictators and harangues allies, particularly in conversations with “strong female leaders,” according to the article. What a shocker, huh? And there are other bizarre tidbits:
The Post says a dozen officials talked to them for the article. It’s just CRINGE.
OzarkHillbilly
@satby: High Ho, High Ho, it’s off to market we go!
Blech.
Jeffro
Also trending: Glenlivet ‘gushers’, sort of like whiskey-filled Tide pods?
Did we somehow stick on April 1st ever since April 1st? How do we get out of this time loop?
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
I never really thought Republicans cared about a lot of the things they promote – for example, given the complete void of compassion, leaning toward gratuitous cruelty, in virtually all their words and actions, you have to be pretty credulous to believe they care about abortion out of compassion for the poor suffering souls of the unborn. But I did think they actually cared about national security and promoting American interests abroad. But that turns out to be pretend too.
Mandalay
The latest being this one, as reported by NYT last night:
We must be getting close to the point where some in Trump’s Administration are considering snitching before they get snitched.
OzarkHillbilly
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
The Iraq war should have disabused you of that notion.
Sloane Ranger
@Jeffro: I usually follow developments in the US closely as a kind of respite from the political shitshow that UK politics have become but this is one I must have missed. Who is Richard Ketay and what is his relevance? I assume from context that there is a doubt about whether he actually exists?
p.a.
If/when the rethug establishment decides to turn on trump (they have the tax cuts & bigot judges in place, what use is he now?) they are probably in more danger from his unhinged gunhumper followers than anyone on the left is. The loons expect treason from us, but betrayal is a whole other thing. ‘Judas’ McTurtle, anyone? Couldn’t happen to nicer people.
JPL
@Jeffro: @Sloane Ranger: He must be real, since he has a twitter account.
https://twitter.com/KetayRichard
Really blown away by the level of interest in lil ol’ me #RichardKetay
I’m just an ordinary made-up guy out there doing my job, talking utter shit and blowing smoke up @realDonaldTrump’s patootie.
Hey, it’s a living!
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Sloane Ranger: I think it’s one of Trump’s nommes de plume. He has several.
OzarkHillbilly
@Sloane Ranger: trump quoted a Richard Ketay from Newark, NJ who got a letter in the print edition of the NY Post. A number of people think this RK guy is fake and a whole bunch of other folks piled on. They have apparently come to this conclusion because trump doesn’t read. I guess they all think trump doesn’t have any staffers or friends who can read. Turns out there really is “an 85-year-old Richard Ketay in Newark, New Jersey,” and he has written a few letters to the Post in the past, with a notable RW slant.
Maybe he isn’t but my Hillbilly razor says he’s real and just another trumpidiot.
Richard Ketay: New Jersey Man Who Wrote a Letter to NY Post.
ETA @JPL: The twitter account is probably fake.
Jeffro
@JPL: That’s hysterical! God bless the internets.
@Sloane Ranger: Yes, it looks like he doesn’t exist, except as the author of a pretty trumpov-sounding letter in the NY Post (which trumpov then cited in his tweet). Pretty amateurish move on the part of John Barron, er, excuse me, trumpov: just sign the letter ‘Mike Smith’ or ‘Richard Jones’ and there’d be no way to track ‘him’ down.
I’m going to have to try this stunt next time I’m in a pickle at work. “Hey boss – I know I choked on that big account, but look at this tweet from ‘FroFfej1972’ – guy LOVES my work!”
Betty Cracker
@p.a.: My guess is the only thing 80% or so of elected Republicans fear is losing their jobs, and they won’t turn on Trump until it becomes clear that sticking with him endangers their sweet gigs more than cutting him loose does. Fear of primaries is the first calculation GOP senators will make, so that’s a huge hurdle to conviction. It can’t be just that a majority of the public supports removal; it has to be an overwhelming majority. I don’t know if we’ll get there, but I’m optimistic that these cascading scandals can cause enormous damage to the Republican Party, and I am SO here for that! ;-)
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: you think… lol
How’s the little one?
JPL
Since the beginning of his presidency, or our long nightmare, trump aides have scoured news papers to find good news that he can boast about. I assume that’s how he saw the letter. That or he did write it.
Jeffro
@JPL: Some of those tweets are comedy gold
“Did you know Donald trumpov makes love to himself regularly and is a particularly considerate sex-machine?”
“Not only did he not do no wrong ever, his skin smells like McDonalds. The clean ones”
BWAH HA HA
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL:
It’s a dirty job but somebody has to do it. ;-)
I got to spend some time with little Adelyn yesterday when I delivered a bunch of birds to my son and DiL, even got to feed her. She’s perfect, of course.
CarolDuhart2
@Betty Cracker: And Trump is so unhinged and so disorganized (What a combination, yeah!) that they may have to come to that decision sooner or later than they would like. And nobody really knows how bad it is because of his derangement-what hasn’t he done?
JPL
@Jeffro: He smells like the sty at Old McDonald’s farm.
what would Baud say
OzarkHillbilly
Spanish police plucked from ocean by drugs smugglers they were chasing
That’s gratitude for you.
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: It’s not long before they become little imps.
OzarkHillbilly
@JPL: That’s when things start to get fun for Pawpaw. And hellish for Mommy and Daddy..
Ian R
@OzarkHillbilly: Do they want to not get saved next time? Because that’s how you ensure the next group let’s you drown.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ian R: I guess they are hoping the judge gives them credit for good behavior at sentencing.
zhena gogolia
@Mary G:
Yes, good for Nate Silver in that last tweet.
I can’t believe that I’ve had to type “Good for Chuck Todd” and Good for Nate Silver” in the last few days.
zhena gogolia
@Mandalay:
The case of Volker is so striking. He does not come off well in those texts, but he must have calculated that it was better for him to come clean now. I hope it’s catching.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Betty Cracker: My theory is, since we know the Russians hacked the Republicans and a bunch of other Republican-oriented groups (the NRA, faith groups) that a critical mass of Republicans in Congress have skeletons in their closet that the Russians are holding over them. It’s not everyone, but the clean Republicans can’t step out of line without one of the dirty ones figuratively cutting their head off. Plus if the Russians dump their dirt the clean ones are stuck in the minority. They won’t bail until it’s painfully obvious that outcome is assured anyway.
Then we’ll get the post-W two step about how Republicans lost their way and abandoned “true conservatism” but have now found their way again. I just hope the press is more skeptical of that dance this time around. Also I hope the Democrats handle it better. Especially about the deficit…if I were a Democrat when they start screaming about the deficit again I’d be like “look at their record. You know if they were magically put in charge again 5 minutes from now they’d start charging a bunch of stuff to the national credit card because that’s what happens every time. So spare me the faux concern. I don’t care how much they pinky swear that this time it’s really different because we all know it’s not.
OzarkHillbilly
Faces for fallen trees: the man behind Rome’s tree stump sculptures
I love street art, so I think this is pretty damn cool.
OzarkHillbilly
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: If the GOP ever starts crying about the deficit DEMs have an easy reply to shut them up: “If you are really concerned about it, work with us to undo the damage you did.”
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@zhena gogolia: I get that wrt Chuck Todd but don’t really find Nate Silver objectionable at all. He goes where data takes him, at least most of the time. Maybe one could quibble with how he slices and dices it, or that he’s not transparent enough about how he’s doing that, but I think he’s doing what he’s doing not to arrive at a pre-determined outcome but to arrive at the outcome the data says is most likely. I really don’t see anything wrong with that.
I think his point above is valid. Pelosi is handling this pretty well. Maybe she didn’t move as fast as some people wanted but waiting for a smoking gun was probably the right play. Trump keeps trying to find a narrative to talk his way out of what he said but he’s failing, and sounding pretty unhinged. Like, out of touch with reality unhinged. They may not admit it in public but I have to imagine even some of his remaining supporters find his recent behavior to be pretty unsettling.
rikyrah
Good Morning, Everyone ? ??
rikyrah
@satby:
You are good people, satby ?
JPL
@Jeffro: I thought it was a joke, but apparently not.
OzarkHillbilly
@rikyrah: Shhhhhhhhh…. We don’t want her getting a big head or anything.
trnc
@Ian R:
Not sure what else the officers were supposed to do. As warm and fuzzy as the story makes me feel about those smugglers, there was a police chopper on their ass, so letting the officers drown probably wouldn’t have worked out well for them. If the story ended with “Then they all patted each other on the backs, and the officers gave the smugglers a hearty thank you and let them go,” I’m pretty sure several cops and their commander would be looking for new jobs.
If the smugglers get reduced sentences, fine. But if they had ignored the rescue order and left, they and their boat would probably be on the bottom of the bay/ocean/whatever.
Betty Cracker
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Maybe you’re right about compromised Republicans. I don’t know, but I suspect you’re correct that none will make a move until it’s clear which way the wind is blowing regardless. For me, it’s been fascinating to watch how my two shitty GOP senators are handling this. When the impeachment inquiry was announced, Rick Scott went on Fox News to trot out the Trump line, but he’s clammed up since new revelations came to light.
Rubio is a mealy mouthed coward as usual, and yesterday, Trump retweeted a clip of Rubio covered in flop sweat and suggesting Trump was just trolling the media by calling on China and Ukraine to investigate the Bidens. Rubio’s last public statement on the matter was that extremists on both sides of the impeachment question are wrong and can’t we just follow the facts? To me, that suggests he’s feeling the heat, as does Scott’s absence. That’s a good thing. I called both those pricks’ offices and will do so again next week.
zhena gogolia
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
They’re leaking about sieves about how insane he is “behind the scenes.”
Ken
Is anyone making book on when Trump next calls Pelosi and tries to make everything go away? Put me down for a fiver on the week of November 10.
I thought her response last time – “Tell your people to obey the law” – was perfect.
debbie
@JPL:
People seem to think he’s the reincarnation of John Miller, but at the rate Ketay’s tweeting, he can’t be Trump. When would Trump have the time to tweet his own garbage?
ETA: Trump would never permit that profile pic.
Ken
@OzarkHillbilly: @trnc: I was kind of hoping they were acting out of a deep respect for the Law of the Sea, but your ideas are probably closer to reality.
Ken
@Betty Cracker: “Oafish” is going to leave a mark.
NotMax
Respite to gawk at the excess of the non-humble abode.
Amir Khalid
In the English Premier League’s lunchtime kickoff today, disaster has struck Tottenham Hotspur. Three minutes in, goalkeeper Hugo Lloris fell very awkwardly trying to make a save and apparently broke his arm. 12th-placed Brighton & Hove Albion scored in the incident, and now lead 2-0. Spurs seem still discombobulated from the 2-7 Champions League clubbing by Bayern München a few days ago, and the whispers about manager Mauricio Pochettino’s job security were already being heard n football circles.
Amir Khalid
@NotMax:
I wonder why we don’t speak of an “arrogant abode” when describing some wealthy person’s less than humble digs.
OzarkHillbilly
@NotMax: I have had the dubious honor of building some true grotesqueries over the years. Never underestimate the human capacity for overstated braggadocio.
MattF
@NotMax: See McMansion Hell.
Kay
The other thing that comes clear in the Trump team Ukraine texts is they were planning on using the Ukraine president to propagandize Americans – the plan was for a US media roll out of the Biden investigation with Ukraine officials making the allegations
Should be a separate impeachment article
chris
Boggled…
MattF
Look— it’s not complicated. Pelosi has the knowledge, the skills, the talent… and, incidentally, works harder than any of her opponents.
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
If Trump’s impeachable acts were listed one by one, I think the House could manage the first book-length Articles of Impeachment in Congressional history.
Kay
@Amir Khalid:
Imagine that, though
It would have worked
The whole scheme would have worked – WAS working prior to the whistleblower
Amir Khalid
@OzarkHillbilly:
Do you have a theory for what’s behind the curious sameness of the “birthday cake” style of residential McMansion achitecture?
Matt McIrvin
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Silver can be irritating when he plays pundit. One of his current themes is that he’s opposed to Twitter shutting down Trump’s account because his tweets are newsworthy–never mind how many murders they incite.
He gets dinged for mis-calling the 2016 general election, but that’s not fair at all–relative to other “data pundits” like Sam Wang, he rated Trump’s chances of a win relatively high, to the point that people started wondering what was wrong with him. What he deserved criticism for was mis-calling the 2016 Republican primary: he kept insisting that Trump’s campaign was going to collapse any day now based on no data whatsoever; it was a pure gut-feeling call.
Amir Khalid
@Kay:
Old Malay saying: “The cleverest squirrel at jumping must still land on the ground eventually.” The Trumpistas’ winning streak at breaking the law and getting away as eventually going to tempt them into overreach.
Steeplejack
Redacted for tardiness.
Betty Cracker
@Amir Khalid: I like that saying. I’ve been thinking of it in terms of political gravity, but squirrels are better.
trnc
@Amir Khalid:
Too true. But then the republicans would complain that it’s just a laundry list from liberals who have always hated DT, and the media headlines will be “Democrats Can’t Decide What To Impeach Trump On.”
Amir Khalid
Last season’s Champions League finalists Spurs are behind 3-0 at mid-table side Brighton. Simply dreadful from Spurs, absolutely brilliant from Brighton.
Citizen Alan
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
My personal theory is that deep down, they all know that they’re vile, self-destructive monsters and so the very idea of abortion causes them existential trauma because it forces them to confront the fact that the world would be a better place if they’d never been born.
MattF
@Jeffro: However, I’ll bet this makes it non-kosher.
OzarkHillbilly
@Amir Khalid: It’s what wannabe rich people think rich people like?
NotMax
Coming soon: The Lochenlode Intravenous Assortment.
“In today’s fast-paced world, who has time to swallow?”
:)
Amir Khalid
@trnc:
Also, it’s not a realistic prosecuting strategy. Out of a long list, prosecutors typically file for the charges that are most serious, most likely to stick, and for which the accused would get a sentence commensurate with the gravity of all the crimes taken together.
sdhays
@Citizen Alan: “The unborn” is such a perfect group for the right. They, by definition, exist, so the right can get all self-righteous about them without having to worry about what they think or need. It lets them feel morally superior while being hateful and cruel. The unborn will never contradict them.
NotMax
@NotMax
Oopsie. Meant to be @Jeffro.
OzarkHillbilly
US diplomat’s wife leaves UK after becoming suspect in fatal road crash
I hear that even now negotiations are underway. trumpo says he’ll send her back if the Brits arrest Elizabeth Warren.
sdhays
@Kay: It’s still working to some degree. The PBS Snoozehour had a segment last night about “the Bidens”, and it was as clear as mud whether or not anything shady was going on. The sum of the quotes suggested that Biden didn’t do anything wrong, but they couldn’t bring themselves to say that. And they didn’t touch what Hunter Biden was supposedly guilty of.
Unless the press is more forceful and repetitive about accusations being baseless lies, some people will see “some” smoke and assume there’s “some” fire.
Do we even know what the accusation of what Biden did in China is supposed to be? Or are they still working on the details of that lie?
ThresherK
@Amir Khalid: I am shocked about Albion beating Spurs so handily.
Amir Khalid
A dreadful day for Tottenham Hotspur ends in a 3-0 away defeat and their first-choice keeper all but certainly out for the season.
Another Scott
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: When elections were competitive, candidates had to demonstrate some competence and understanding of issues. When districts became so gerrymandered that the only thing that mattered was “I’m the True Conservative!!1” then spouting slogans became all that mattered. And just as gerrymandering became so granular that candidates were able to pick their voters down to the apartment building, slogans became so focus-group-tested-and-refined that they became religious mantras.
A lot of these issues go away when candidates no longer are able to pick their voters, and when everyone eligible is able to vote and does so. That’s why non-partisan redistricting based on “compact, contiguous” districts that also satisfy the efficiency gap are so vital.
We know how to calculate these things, and obviously what’s important is how the vote totals relate to the seat totals. This isn’t hard. The lawmakers and the courts must consider things like this going forward and create systems that prevent candidates from choosing their voters. It’s the best way to prevent the RWNJs from driving the country over the cliff in their desire to eliminate taxes and turn the law and the economy over to the 0.01% for ever and ever amen.
Grr…
Cheers,
Scott.
MattF
@sdhays: The White House is our local source of expertise in corruption and nepotism, so they prolly could made some helpful suggestions.
sdhays
@Another Scott: Unfortunately, the current Supreme Court doesn’t see anything wrong with this.
Amir Khalid
@ThresherK:
They’ve been all over the place in the league so far. The are murmurs that Pochettino has lost the dressing room. And to think that just months ago, Man United were looking hard at signing Pochettino to replace Jose Mourinho.
Ken
@Amir Khalid: My theory is that the contractors are installing things to ensure they’ll have more work in a few years. There’s no other reason for a building to have four different materials on the outer walls and three on the roof, as I’ve seen in some of the local McMansions.
PJ
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: What Democrats have to do is pass a massive set of laws designed to reduce and eliminate corruption by elected officials and in the election process — to put in writing, with punishments of sufficient magnitude to deter future violations, all of the norms which Republicans have been violating for the past 40 years, and which have accelerated over the last 18. This ranges from the most obvious, such as the President (and other elected officials and appointed officials of sufficiently high office) cannot financially benefit in any way from their office except via their salary, and relatives of the President may not be appointed to high office or function that way without appointment, to fundamentally changing campaign finance so that it is not ruled by big money. Some of this may require amendment of the Constitution or packing the Supreme Court, but this shit cannot be allowed to happen again.
The other thing Democrats must do is prosecute each and every one of the crimes Republicans have been committing, no matter how small, going back to the Bush Administration. It’s letting those fuckers off the hook that got us where we are today.
sdhays
@PJ: We need to fix the FEC as well. When one party is able to essentially shut it down by refusing to appoint commissioners, it makes election law even more of farce than it already is.
PJ
@Amir Khalid: Trump and his team have been overreaching since the 2016 campaign. The sheer amount of crimes is mind-boggling. What is different now is that one person of conscience – just one – came forward with hard evidence of the everyday mafia behavior of the President. Anyone in the Administration could have done this from day one, but it took us two years and nine months for it to actually happen.
Another Scott
@OzarkHillbilly: Yup.
Donnie’s old neighborhood in Jamaica Estates in Queens. Some are perfectly normal homes, some are let’s-see-how-big-a-monstrosity-we-can-put-on-the-city-lot-and-put-a-fence-around-it McMansions.
Cheers,
Scott.
Elizabelle
WRT the topic: Nancy Pelosi held her fire and her coalition together until impeachment had to be out in the open. You know it’s been going on behind the scenes for months, despite what the “Democrats in disarray” and “not fast enough!” critters are telling you.
WaPost on Elaine Luria’s town hall in Virginia Beach a few days ago. One of our jackals attended and was interviewed by the AP. (patrickII?)
WaPost: The story of a Virginia swing district town hall: From cheers to jeers
[Think about that: the RNC with “Stop the Madness” — about impeaching Trump. It kind of works both ways, doesn’t it? Democrats ARE attempting to stop the madness.]
There’s a lot more to the article. Definitely worth a click. And it was interesting for the reader comments, which were supportive.
WaPost reader commenters:
This fall. They definitely will be.
I’m not sure it is going to harm her politically, at this point. With family in the service — aka skin in the game — do you want Trump as Commander in Chief? Does he have the US’s interests at heart? Or whose?
NotMax
@Ken
Contractor with a large stable of in-laws?
The monstrosity built on the lot where the big house Mom sold several years ago was fairly screams for a ‘Days until things start falling apart’ countdown clock.
(No objection whatsoever to the tearing down of the original structure – it may have been chic when built in the 1920s but was of its time in both materials and design – stucco walls, casement windows – and even gutting the inside would have left a space which would give any architect the screaming mimis.)
;)
PJ
@PJ:@sdhays: And of course these laws have to be enforced effectively, which includes, you know, appointing FEC commissioners (not to mention all of the other day to day regulatory positions that have gone unfilled.)
What we’re looking at is the moral reconstruction of federal government.
Another Scott
@Elizabelle: Excellent. Thanks for the report. And good for Luria and Spanberger and all the rest of the Democrats who are willing to fight the “conventional wisdom” that doing the right thing is dangerous to their electoral prospects.
Why the GOP gets to set the “obvious” expectations in the press of what Democrats should do is extremely annoying… “Surprisingly, GOP says that Democrats are doing it wrong.” – part MCMXXIV Yes, the path to electoral victory for Democrats is to do what the GOP wants. Yup, yup…. :-/
Cheers,
Scott.
smintheus
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: There have been smoking guns aplenty since Jan. 2017. She wasn’t waiting for this particular smoking gun; she was pushed against her will finally.
Elizabelle
@smintheus: You don’t know that at all, about “against her will.”
It’s clear she did not want to get out in front, and waited until she had the votes and this is even bad for the GOP.
Go knock down a Republican, smitntheus. I am sick of the Nancy-bashing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I read that article, and missed that the writers put in “oafish”. Oaf and its derivatives are underused, especially now.
I remember the chocolate cake, “the most beautiful chocolate cake you ever saw”. I believe that was when trump and Xi were looking at some classified documents about North Korea on the patio of the Maralago restaurant by the light of the phones of the waitstaff and other patrons
Dorothy A. Winsor
How delusional do you have to be to tweet this today?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Good christ. This stupid shit again.
PJ
@Elizabelle: Yeah, I don’t know why people wanted her to be calling for an impeachment vote when there weren’t enough Democratic votes in the House to have it pass. That would have been disastrous.
smintheus
@MattF: That site is hilarious.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@smintheus: It’s a timing thing. Starting the process too early, with a too-complicated “smoking gun”, and by the time the whistleblower surfaced, the response from the media would have been, ” Oh, not again.”
There are only three reasons to make your argument.
1. You are silly enough to believe that the Senate would have removed Trump following the House investigation
2. You really think that our ADHD media would have maintained an interest in an investigation that they can’t understand, and the investigation would have continued to build momentum instead of fizzling
3. You are a Republican troll who wanted the investigation to fizzle
And you are repeating the same line that prompted the last tweet in the original post. Here, let me remind you:
Jim, Foolish Literalist
because politics should be theatre that matches and affirms their righteousness. It’s a problem that extends well beyond impeachment,.
smintheus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bad christ. These inane rebuttals again.
Eolirin
@PJ: Primarily because they don’t recognize the individual members of her caucus as having any agency. They assume that Pelosi is the final word on all decision making.
But she’s not McConnell, and the house democratic caucus isn’t the senate republican caucus.
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
IIRC, it’s his mother’s recipe.
Paging Dr. Freud….
Jeffro
@MattF: Ugh. Who wants to bite down on a “Glenlivet gusher”?
I suspect that if SoCo makes its own version, though, college football tailgates will get even livelier
Jim, Foolish Literalist
strategery!
which isn’t to say he’s wrong here, though I doubt Our Willard begged for State.
ETA: also wrong of course about Willard “fighting” him
Jeffro
@NotMax: @NotMax: I guess so…still, ugh though.
smintheus
@Elizabelle: Yes we do know it was against her will. Her own statements in public and private were consistent, and news reports have documented that she was trying to slow walk everything right up until the op-ed by the so-called ‘national security’ Dems was published…at which point the number of Democrats opposed to an impeachment investigation had dwindled to almost zero.
@PJ: People weren’t calling for an impeachment vote. They were calling for opening impeachment hearings to develop evidence and make the case for impeachment.
Jeffro
@PJ: Agreed on both general counts.
The Dems need to make the penalties unquestionable and automatic. No tax returns disclosed in full six months before Election Day? Instant disqualification from being a candidate. No true/complete/legally verified blind trust for all your businesses/financial holdings/etc by Inauguration Day? Instant DQ and we swear in your opponent. Things like that.
MattF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: In Trumpese, ‘begged’ and ‘asked’ are synonyms. He demands and assumes submissiveness.
NotMax
@Jeffro
Really just took advantage of an excuse to drag out the long ago coined fictitious Lochenlode whiskey. “A man’s man’s drink.”
:)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Now this is a man who was ready to take on the big issues, to face the real crises of a churning and dangerous world.
Remember the rubble?
Cacti
Speaking of Dem leaders, has anyone seen Chuck Schumer over the past couple of weeks?
We might as well have a potted plant leading the Senate Dems.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Elizabelle: Yes, the 2019 General Assembly election is extremely important. Democrats have a chance to win the threefer — both houses in the Assembly to go with the Governorship. I grew up in Virginia, so I’ve been writing postcards for the Democratic Candidates.
For any Virginian Jackals who want to contribute beyond voting, here’s a handy list of which Democratic candidates have the best chances to win. https://bluevirginia.us/2019/10/one-stop-shopping-virginia-general-assembly-2019-races-we-need-to-pay-attention-to
Ladyraxterinok
@Citizen Alan:
,,,,’a far, far better’ place,,,,
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
[Expletive deleted] thineself, Jeb.
smintheus
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
And yet you list only one real reason. Your other two statements are just trolling. But thanks for the reminder that at BJ criticism of Pelosi is impermissible.
Eolirin
@smintheus: Hearings to develop evidence and make the case for impeachment were in fact on going this entire time though. What you call them doesn’t really matter, except tactically.
And I think you also fail to understand what Pelosi’s job is. The speaker’s primary objective is to protect the members of her caucus. There was not broad agreement on impeachment, especially from vulnerable dems. Making sure they didn’t have to take the heat for being squishy on it is job priority number one. Once there was full support she moved very rapidly to support a much more aggressive position.
This is exactly what you’d expect to see if Pelosi was being entirely tactical about this. Impeachment is only useful as a political tool. It’s not very likely to result in Trump being removed from office, and the biggest benefit we’re going to see from it is the impact it may have on the 2020 election. The precise timing of any of this never really mattered, as long as it wasn’t too early or immediately before the election. Waiting was always the right play until there was something big and easy to understand that the media was showing a willingness to actually care about. And that’s exactly what happened.
MattF
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Remember when the Jeb!Train was an irresistible force? I think the failed R candidates (and the failed R party) of 2016 bear a lot of responsibility for the current debacle.
Ladyraxterinok
@sdhays:
Plus they don’t have to ‘pay out taxes from good, hard-working people’ to support education, hospitals, streets, etc
They and their supporters can look moral and righteous and they don’t have to think about money.
Of course, they won’t later support any taxes to support these ‘moochers whose parents should have waited to have kids until they could afford them’//
mrmoshpotato
@Betty Cracker:
“Alexa! Commit all the impeachable offenses to troll the media!”
Sweet Jebus is Rubio an idiot.
Frankensteinbeck
@Eolirin:
And at that, it played out exactly how she said it would. The Democrats moved deliberately, dotted their is and crossed their ts, getting ready for when Trump self-impeached. There is no other reasonable definition of the term ‘self-impeach’ than exactly what happened here. Pelosi predicted it, and she was right.
Jay C
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I think the key bit in Nate Silver’s analysis tweet is the “Trump’s defenses are feeble” part: although, tbh, I don’t see Trump (himself) really making much of a “defense” against ANY of the impeachment-worthy allegations. Basically, his reaction is just a reversion to his usual practice of simply blasting out out insults, lies, deflections and braggadocio: all of which is simply a screen for his bottom-line attitude: i.e. “I did it, I’ll do it again, you can’t do anything about it, so Fuck You!“. Which sometimes isn’t even screened all that much.
Immanentize
Smintheus, do you think Bernie will drop out of the race after his heart attack?
japa21
@smintheus: Tiresome. She never said she was against doing an impeachment inquiry. She said there were appropriate ways to go about it. She was not dragged into this.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
But- but – Cuban heels! Bottled water!
Never mind.
:)
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@smintheus: Stupidity gets pushback.
Impeachment is not a performance art.
Unless you can offer an a concrete benefit to starting an inquiry over some “smoking gun” that you haven’t even bothered to define, there’s no point to wasting the time. Until then, all I see is someone screaming for a fishing expedition.
MattF
@Jay C: Pelosi is sending Trump the bill for the damage he’s done. And Trump is treating it the way he treats anyone who sends him a bill.
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
My gut feeling is that the Republicans have focused on compromising the Republicans as a party rather than as individuals. That is to say that they’ve corrupted people at the top of a number of the Republicans’ big interest groups, most notably the NRA but also focusing on Evangelical churches. That lets them send money to Republican politicians indirectly, and it gives them a cover story for talking to Republican politicians. That has let them work on softening the Republican line toward Russia even as they probably don’t have really juicy dirt on many important Republican politicians.
At the same time, the Republicans all know that they’ve been leaning heavily on Russian support for a while now. They may not be at risk of prison time for conspiracy, but they know that revealing the full extent of the Russian influence operation would be devastating to their party and hence to their individual prospects. So they’re compromised because the party as a whole is compromised not because there’s dirt on them individually.
Kevin McCarthy’s comments on there only being two politicians he knew who were on the Russians’ payroll is a great example of the basic dynamic. Very few of them are getting money from Russia directly, but they all know and want to cover up the importance of Russian money for the party as a whole. And, honestly, very few of them are so deeply in the Russians’ pockets that they’re afraid to do anything about Russia; when Russia does something especially egregious, a large majority of Republicans are still willing to vote in favor of sanctions, aid to the countries they’re invading, etc.
japa21
@smintheus:
That is a demonstrably untrue statement. However, as with most things, criticism should be based in reality. Yours is not.
Ladyraxterinok
@PJ:
JFK picking brother Bobby as AG was bothering at the time.
Bobby did have a long-running prosecution of crooks going on, but still!
Elizabelle
@Immanentize: Zing. Yuppers.
And yes to a Maine meetup! And best to you and Immp this weekend!
Sebastian
@Amir Khalid:
The criminals have to get it right every single time, the cops only once.
I like the squirrels saying though, it’s cute.
Immanentize
@Elizabelle:
Thanks! Let’s do!
MomSense
Like I’ve been saying, Nancy Smash gamed this out. She’s probably the greatest political tactician in our nation’s history.
It doesn’t make any sense to rent our garments about Nancy Smash when there are so many more pressing issues that need support. Sometimes I think we focus on this kind of BS because we don’t want to have to take action where and when we can.
Anya
I wonder why aren’t journalists asking themselves what turned Lindsey Graham from opposing Trump to his toady? This doesn’t make sense at any level. I am pretty sure there is some blackmail thing going on. Nothing else makes sense.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Pelosi seems to be the only one it politics whose left who understand how politics works in a Democracy. There is no way this impeachment can work unless the majority wants it. Just screaming at the public “for shame” doesn’t work. Instead everyone’s caught up with this WWE like theater and just wants someone to go out and bellow at Trump.
And yes, people will pressure Moscow Mich, that’s hilarious, like the Kentucky voters who loath him won’t vote him in yet again because Moscow Mitch as a R after his name. Maybe times are a changing and people stop treating idiots in high places like they are some kind of little gods we puny mortals can’t understand, but I don’t see that happening now.
lamh36
FYI: Things you may not have known about Kamala Harris…She has a dual Bachelors Degree in Politics AND Economics along with her JD.
Also too…this is like the 3rd damn time a reporter has asked Kamala Harris to defend Biden or to explain Biden’s strategy on Ukraine (they’ve been asking all at least once, but I swear I’ve seen 3 diff reporters asking the same damn question)…good lord…ENOUGH…smh
Amir Khalid
@Anya:
Is it inappropriate to suggest that Graham fell in love with Trump like he once did with McCain?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: I tend think if Lindsey Graham had ever had any kind of sex life, it would have leaked by now. I think what you see is what you get: A man desperate to be, as he put it, relevant. Proximate to power, if not actually powerful. I think to the extent his personal life it’s that 1) he doesn’t really have one, so there’s no there there if he’s not a Senator Who Goes On TeeVee A Lot and 2) the desperate fantasy that he will, through trump, monger the war that will (somehow) prove to his dead daddy that he’s a real man. North Korea, Venezuela, Iran, Syria, tripling down in Afghanistan, going back into Iraq… doesn’t really matter where, it will work this time, and the proof of that is that it didn’t work the last two times.
@Amir Khalid: Nope, I just don’t think it’s necessarily sexual/romantic. There’s an anecdote about Lindsey Graham’s first visit to the McCain family “ranch” (read: Mansion and grounds, including tire swing ) in Sedona, AZ. Graham was bowled over by the fact that Warren Beatty and Annette Benning were there, and I think a third movie star. He was star-struck by them as much as McCain. A born back-bencher from South Carolina was hobnobbing with some big personalities.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Betty Cracker:
Dear god, this trade war is over China won’t give Trump a cake?
debbie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, but did Mitt ever call him, “Sir”?
MattF
@Anya: I agree that it’s a puzzle. I think it’s more reversion to ‘South Carolina normal’ than anything else.
Miss Bianca
@MomSense: I just love how anti-Pelosi trolls are reduced to spluttering and grumbling that she just didn’t move on impeachment like a bitch for them. “See, she’s doing the thing I’ve been wanting her to do, but the fact that she didn’t jump when I was screaming ‘jump’ means she didn’t really want to do it, so I still get to hate her!” Le sigh.
WereBear
@Amir Khalid: Not inappropriate, just unbelievable.
O. Felix Culpa
@MomSense:
QFT. Our side has its share of keyboard commandos. Folks, there’s plenty of work to be done, like organizing, registering, informing and motivating voters. Get involved in local issues (for example, we helped our County Board pass an ordinance that will severely restrict mining and protect the environment). You’ll make a difference and you’ll feel a lot better too.
debbie
@MomSense:
Seconded in a very loud voice!
mrmoshpotato
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
That incident was Dump and Japanese prime minister Shinzo Abe.
Ugh, now I remember the punchable smirk on Dump’s face from one of those pictures.
Anya
@Amir Khalid: It’s possible. He tends to look for someone to hero worship and follow around like a lost puppy.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: You make good points but supposedly, Trump is against everything Graham pretended to care about (foreign policy, bombing countries and starting wars). Graham would still be on tv and worshiped by the beltway if he was standing up for his pretend principles. He is not even doing the Trump supporter bit in a dignified way. He is literally like one of Trump’s asshole supporters and not a senator with actual standing. Trump needs him more than he needs Trump so why is he debasing himself like this?
Kelly
@Jeffro:
I was certain it was a parody. Swirling it around in a warm glass for my nose is half the pleasure. Could be viable packaging for cheap tequila.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Non-stop protests outside his house/offices and calls might do the trick
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Graham sounds like Michael Scott
J R in WV
@Ken:
This is for sure true. Back in the late 1990s and early 2000s my brother was a senior VP for Compaq in their NW Houston HQ. So obviously he had to have a McMansion in the nearest Compaq upper management gated community.
When I was there dog sitting while he and his went skiing in Utah I went into the door to the unfinished space over the garages. The roof rafters were so poorly cut that for many of them the wood itself never touched, and only the extra long nails used to connect the wooden boards held anything together. I was amazed, as I would have fired any building team that F’ed up a roof structure like that.
The plumbing was also f’ed up under the slab somewhere. And I recall hearing that there was differential swelling of the soils under the slab that caused structural cracks and necessitated concrete specialists pumping mud to level things and reconnect parts of the slab.
So: shoddy built in every way at every stage of construction.
Anya
@Betty Cracker: I’ve read that article and legit felt nauseous. This is our president. This oaf represents us in the world and talks to world leaders on our behalf. How can anyone stand this. I just don’t get how can a single American support this man, even the deplorable? He is an embarrassment.
Miss Bianca
@lamh36: Good on Harris.
Ladyraxterinok
@Another Scott: Thanks. Read and sent to a friend. Don’t know what she’ll think of it. That link plus the mcmansionhell is a lot for her to take after moving with her daughter from a garage apt to a 1 bedroom apt @Another Scott: from a
Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho
@Immanentize: We can only hope he drops out instead of dropping dead on the trail. If he – or Jane – were realistic, he’d understand that he’s risking hie health.
PS – you have email.
Emma
@Cacti: Schumer is doing exactly what he’s supposed to do: not intrude the Senate into the matter at this point. When the articles of impeachment are sent to the Senate, then he moves in.
Elizabelle
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: The Revolution! demands no less.
I am hoping Bernie is not long for the race. Especially since he’s not a Democrat and should no way in hell ever be our standard bearer.
Anya
DO you ever wonder what happened to the anonymous Op-Ed writer? Unless it’s Kellyanne Conway, NYT owes us an update. Clearly, that person failed to do a single thing to prevent Trump’s craziness. I am just amazed the New York Times gave this person all this prominence. There isn’t any prove that anyone tries to stop Trump. Maybe McMaster but then he was gone in 5 minutes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Anya: I do agree trump is more isolationist than his “fire and fury” rhetoric suggests, but Graham bought into the tough talk, and thought he could build on it. I’m sure he hasn’t given up.
There we disagree. Trump could take Graham out with a tweet. South Carolina is maybe the trumpiest, tea-partiest state, and Graham was viewed with suspicion by the hard right more for his friendship with McCain and establishment status (especially his immigration stance) than for his personal life. Graham invented Benghazi as a scandal to stave off a TP challenge, started running ads about it more than a year before his primary, IIRC.
Immanentize
@Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: yay!
I will look. I really do like getting email from you and other friends. I am, however, impaired when it comes to replies. So sorry…..
J R in WV
@smintheus:
You fucking troll, go to the pie safe!!!
Immanentize
@Elizabelle: @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho:
I suspect the person who is most hopeful that Bernie has a full recovery and is back wagging his finger and being shouty — Joe Biden.
Without Bernie, Joe sinks.
oldgold
Latest Trump Tweet goes after Mittens.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: “I was very heterosexual,” yeah, that sounds convincing. He sounds like an alien trying to convince humans he’s one of them. Maybe he’s Asexual. My great uncle never married and lived alone and I don’t believe he ever had a relationship with anyone, so I can buy he has no life and is married to his work but who talks like that?
piratedan
@Eolirin: and as a follow up, I honestly believe that out of our current roster of Dem politicians, Nonna Pelosi understands the essential nature for DJT better than anyone.
Look back at how she handed The Wall, now she won that fight and then DJT went right on ahead and illegally raided other departmental budgets to get his pet peeve funded that she couldn’t tough, but she faced him down publicly and humiliated him. She had given the nod to her committee chairs to start assembling evidence and yet somehow that snuck under the notice of the media as they were following the latest Trump Shiny turd-like object that dropped on a weekly (if not daily) basis until something so egregious came to light, with easy to understand illegality (at least to those of us with firing synapses) that it “forced” her to act.
Other reasons to wait, if she starts too soon, the media starts asking questions… is this purely partisan? Is this Pelosi’s ambition coming into play? Yeah, those questions might still get asked, but by slow playing this, “making” her act, means all of those gambits are essentially unavailable to them as talking points or stalking horses. Plus, we have the President admitting his illegal acts on public television, multiple times, in multiple instances and the benefit of him implicating not only himself, but his vice president, his AG and his secretary of state.
and we still want to piss and moan about “optics”?
For fucks sake its even obvious to Chuck “fucking” Todd, he of the stooped shoulders from carrying GOP water…
PPCLI
@Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s pretty clear that the notes on the call, which Trump is calling a “transcript” were crafted carefully. They knew what was in the whistleblower complaint. They figured out which of the things the whistleblower said about the call were impossible to keep under wraps, because too much of it was already out in the open, and too many people knew. The military aid was withheld, the Biden stuff was demanded, the Crowdstrike lunacy was demanded, etc. So they had to put those things in the notes.
There is no doubt the actual transcript is a hundred times worse than what they released. People marveled at why they released something so incriminating; it’s because they figured this was the least incriminating they could be and stonewall the rest.
Jinchi
@oldgold:
So, “The guy I endorsed for Senate is terrible for my party.”
Fair Economist
@zhena gogolia: Volker is correct. It doesn’t make sense to prosecute people who semi-voluntarily reveal the conspiracy and who weren’t part of the leadership.
J R in WV
@Amir Khalid:
Actually, though they are rare, we have flying squirrels around here. I was shocked to see a squirrel commit what looked like sure suicide once walking to a neighboring farm, leaping off a high oak branch hurtling toward the earth, when he snapped his gliding wings out and soared a couple of hundred yards and up into another oak tree farther up the hollow.
I were amazed!
PPCLI
@MattF: Yes indeed. Everyone holding back from laying into Trump, in the hopes that when Trump had the collapse they regarded as inevitable, they could nab his supporters. Very clever, guys.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I agree about South Carolina but Trump is so mired in scandals and investigations Graham could’ve used it as a way to keep him inline but probably he is desperate to hold on to his senate seat and clearly doesn’t care about his dignity. I am honestly convinced that if GOP senators developed a backbone and came together against Trump, enough voters would turn against him, even the zombie base. But what do I know. Maybe I am grasping at straws.
Jay C
@Anya:
And if you really want to aggravate the nausea: take a gander at this Politico piece about the “probe” our Attorney General (and assorted other creatures) have been wasting the taxpayers’ time and money on for five months.
TL;DR version: Barr spearheading a probe to try and clear the Russians of charges of interference in the 2016 election. And hopefully pin said charges on Democrats. Probe is stalled, no one of relevance has been interviewed.
Big sad on R wing….
SFAW
@Eolirin:
Well, in fairness, we often extol her abilities re: keeping her caucus in line.
I trust her. Some part of me wishes she had gotten here sooner, but as long as we get there, it’s OK by me.
SFAW
@J R in WV:
You obviously failed to notice the moose that launched the squirrel in the first place. “Alley-/Allez-” “-oop!
hueyplong
I decline to characterize as bad strategy Pelosi’s ability to vex both Trump and smintheus.
Elizabelle
@hueyplong: I know. It’s kinda genius.
Mandalay
@Anya:
You could ask exactly the same question about other Senate Republicans such as Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. During the 2016 campaign they all savaged Trump, and now they all stay in their lane and never cross him.
The reason is simple: if they oppose Trump their political career is over, and they all know that. Graham is more of a sycophant than the others, but he is up for re-election in 2020, and if he hadn’t become a bootlicker Trump would have (indirectly) had him thrown out of office by endorsing a rival candidate for his seat.
Cruz and Rubio are slightly different. Their seats are safe until 2024, but they probably have presidential ambitions then, and crossing Trump now would ensure that they could never win the presidency.
Some may get their jollies by pondering blackmail, goats and incriminating photos but there is a far more obvious and plausible explanation right under their noses.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jay C: My hope is the Ukraine/Whistle-blower stuff will eclipse whatever “what about…” campaign Barr and the CT US Atty are trying to gin up. And I hope that whoever winds up the Dem nominee will turn to trump (directly on a debate stage, or indirectly) when he starts ranting about the FBI and says flat-out, the only person at the FBI who behaved inappropriately during the 2016 campaign was Comey, and he put you in the Oval Office.
SFAW
@Cacti:
Schumer might be auditioning for one of Zach Gakilininifikasikinikas’s ferns.
ETA: Not sure if I spelled “Zach” correctly, sorry.
Jeffro
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: please, pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease trumpov, keep banging on Republican Senators (any state, up for election or no, I don’t care)
Talk trash about ’em, give ’em a new dumb nickname, degrade them, show the party what you’re all about. PLEASE.
Fleeting Expletive
Re the interference in the audit of Trump’s tax returns at the IRS, do we know if the acts were of the usual mob-thug type (“Da boss don’ want this to get around, capiche?”) or of the actual screwing with the data kind? Is this a Guiliani project or is it a Parscale/UK Brexit corrupting the IT operations of the IRS kind of thing?
I can’t find it now, but ISTR an instance of campaign violation some years ago (HRC 2008, Bill Clinton 1992 ) where a Canadian citizen bought a campaign tee-shirt which was deemed an illegal contribution and for which a fine was assessed against that campaign. Anyone know about that or did I imagine it?
Jinchi
I’m not sure I follow the logic of those who argue that Pelosi is a brilliant strategist who was simply waiting for popular demand before starting impeachment, and that anyone who demanded impeachment before that was an idiot.
Amir Khalid
Dang. Eightieth minute equaliser for Leicester City at Liverpool. 1-1.
mrmoshpotato
@SFAW: “Daalink, flying squirrel is fake news! Moose throws squirrel.”
Ked
Re: Pelosi sports metaphor
So I think Pelosi is a fine quarterback – she made the pass, the receiver was very open and is now sprinting for the goal line.
I’m less sold on Pelosi as coach – that Republican defense has been looking kinda weak for the last year, and maybe throwing a few more passes instead of just running the ball the whole time would have extended the lead sooner.
The metaphor is ultimately kinda silly, but the overall thought about strategic offensive thinking is a genuinely good question. She’s made one decision and it’s looking pretty good in the immediate sense. I have a lot of sympathy for the people whe wanted her to move faster, but when the true ballgame is the 2020 election and not simply blowing up the Administration before then I think she’s performing well.
My first reaction a couple of weeks ago was that the timing was actually a half year early – I really wanted to see impeachment come to a head in late primary season – giving the winning Dem the ability to really tee off on Trump and kneecapping the Rep campaigns both for prez and senate. But you take what comes to you and we really are in the window for catastrophic effects on the Republican presidential race. Note how the Rs were already canceling primaries and chasing out the minor players. If Trump goes away in, say, December, then whoever the candidate is will be waaaay behind on campaign infrastructure. I’d guess Romney as an inertia candidate, and he has good baggage to exploit.
I’ve seen some discussion in the forums I frequent (mostly here and LGF) about Pelosi moving into the presidency if the Republicans crack and vote to convict in the Senate AND Pence can somehow get tied into the mess. The reporting currently puts Pence in as a complicit middleman… but that makes me think the most likely scenario (after Rethug see-no-evil stonewalling) is for the braintrust to decide that Trump has to go, and give Pence the marching orders to turn and testify against Trump This would leave him as the “hero” of the piece, and allow him to ride out the term as someone you couldn’t expect the R’s to convict out of office. Conveniently, he doesn’t have the state/local level legal issues Trump does to drive narrative outside of the diplomatic/constitutional offenses that are being investigated. I don’t think Pence can be seen as a serious 2020 candidate – he works okay as veep and he’s not Quayle levels of bad, but the utter lack of charisma makes him impossible to sell outside core red states.
Elizabelle
@Cheryl from Maryland: Thank you for that link. Extremely informative.
I am near 3 of the crucial races, and am glad to see that other Blue Virginians can read the article to decided where to best target their own efforts. It’s not always in one’s home district.
Fair Economist
@O. Felix Culpa:
It does, but somebody trying to attack Nancy *now* isn’t on our side. A *real* leftie keyboard commando would be trying to change the subject because they’d know their previous attacks now look bad and misguided (or, if they were real troopers, they’d be issuing a mea culpa, but not many are that strong and decent).
Elizabelle
@Jinchi: Who is saying that? Show your work.
Jeffro
@Ked: Pelosi had to move before the fix was well and truly in for the 2020 elections. I was mad at how the Dem Congress was holding off (10 counts of obstruction per Mueller would have been nice!) but it’s more than clear that now is the time.
Also, we are so used to Dem infighting/“dems in disarray!” That perhaps we don’t realize the very real possibility that a trumpov impeachment inquiry and trial, whatever the outcome (but most especially if he is convicted and removed), will set off the long-anticipated GOP civil war. Personally, I can’t wait.
Fair Economist
@Ked:
Pelosi has played it as she had to. Before this going to impeachment would have generated extensive disapproval, many opportunities for the bothsiderists ruling the media to talk about “over-reach”, etc (they’re trying NOW, for crying out loud!), and little or no political benefit. But she can’t ignore when the worst abuse of power in the history of the nation is announced on national TV.
Fleeting Expletive
@Citizen Alan: It helps the very self-righteous monitors of propriety that abortion is conveniently a “sin” that only women can commit. A man can never be guilty of that moral turpitude in their eyes, and even if pregnancy is the result of rape, incest, whatever…it’s the bitch’s fault.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Ked: I don’t think Pelosi will move into the Presidency. I do think that the possibility of it would have been used to attack that impeachment inquiry had she seemed too eager to pursue charges. It’s no different from judges tailoring jury instructions to cut possible appeal routes out from under the lawyers.
Remember that a mistrust of people who want high office has been a part of US culture since our founding.
A Ghost To Most
@Jinchi: Nancy told us Trump was self-impeaching. She was waiting for it.
I had my doubts as well, but this worked out. It wasn’t luck, but fate.
SFAW
@mrmoshpotato:
I was wondering if/when someone would foray into that.
Mandalay
@Jinchi:
I haven’t seen that argument made here. Wasn’t Pelosi simply waiting for the right time to impeach to avoid it being counterproductive for the Democratic Party?
Since she knew about the whistleblower before the story went public she timed her moment well, without being pressured, rushed or overtaken by events.
And while it might be fair to contest some of the gushing praise Pelosi gets, don’t you think she’s doing a great job of making Trump’s life absolutely miserable right now?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jinchi: It all depends on where you put the blame for the reluctance of (I’m guessing) 50-60 House Dems to support impeachment: On Nancy Pelosi, the Bad Mommy who somehow couldn’t move Conor Lamb and Abigail Spanberger until the WB information came out, even though she should have been able to because Mommy, or on the American voters who looked at trump’s confession of obstruction of justice (the Lester Holt interview), at the trump campaign’s confession of collusion with the Russian government (“if it’s what you say it is I love it”), at Jared’s efforts to collude with Russia after the election (trying to set up communication with Moscow through Kizlyak (sp?)… on the people who looked at all that and shrugged for two years. The whistle-blower/Ukraine story moved people in a way all the rest of that shit didn’t. You and Smintheus may hold Nancy Pelosi responsible for that. I can’t figure out that logic.
the same dynamic that has Rose Twitter still convinced Obama was the real obstacle to… whatever they want to harp on from ten years ago
O. Felix Culpa
@Fair Economist: Presumes self-awareness not in evidence. :)
Amir Khalid
Yes!! A Leicester defender brings Sadio Mane down in the box in jury time, and James Milner converts the penalty! 2-1! Eight wins in eight matches! You’ll Never Walk Alone!
Jinchi
@Elizabelle:
Maybe you missed the back and forth that’s been going on here over the last few weeks.
https://balloon-juice.com/2019/09/22/just-itmfa/
https://balloon-juice.com/2019/09/22/here-are-your-representatives-on-impeachment/
But just keeping it to this thread:
Frankensteinbeck
@Mandalay:
She’s adding insult to injury decently, but no, I think Trump is doing a great job of making Trump’s life absolutely miserable right now. It took him awhile, but he finally released, in written form, a confession to a simple, obvious crime that even TV pundits can understand. Impeachment is a sideshow. Pelosi’s strategy about it seems to have played out and I respect that, but Trump’s shooting himself is the important event here.
Redshift
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
They’re even putting that out in more formal White House communications on the email list. This particular attempt at gaslighting seems to be “everyone should be impressed at how transparent I’m being” and ignore that he’s being transparent about committing crimes. And, I suppose, in keeping with his delusion that he did absolutely nothing wrong, so the transcript must show that.
I wish Republicans would get asked more why they’re stonewalling about all the documents and testimony, if all of it proves his innocence, but you go to war with the dysfunctional political media you have, not the ones you’d like to have.
SFAW
I can envision the Traitor-in-Chief trying to make the argument — similar to his “I can’t release my tax returns because the IRS is auditing them” — that the election needs to be delayed until after the (fake!) impeachment process is completed.
And if he were convicted, then he needs to be re-elected, because something-something-something
And before anyone gives me a hard time about the logic/sanity: would the above be the MOST illogical or insane thing(s) he’s ever said/done?
Jinchi
@Mandalay:
Absolutely, Hurray Nancy!
Kelly
@Fair Economist:
I concur. I figured we were stuck with Trump for a full term back in Nov 2016. However my anxiety boiled over a couple weeks ago as the Ukraine story unfolded and I went full “Impeach the SOB already”. I’m back to we’re stuck with Trump for a full term and the best outcome is enough scandals to sink many Republicans next year. Speaker Pelosi has worked this as well as it could be worked.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
also, I was moved from cautious ambivalence to being pro-impeachment when the administration started ordering ex-employees, government employees, to ignore Congressional subpoenas. I don’t remember when exactly that was, June? July? I haven’t been calling myself an “idiot”, but I also wasn’t “demanding” anything. I’m of phlegmatic temperament and have never seen “demanding” as being a very effective strategy in politics, or other aspects of life.
Redshift
@Frankensteinbeck: It is, but it doesn’t stand alone. I firmly believe that if we didn’t have impeachment to make underlings willing to testify to save their skins, focus media attention and provide a single heading for all of this, the discussion would have moved on to the next outrage by now. Trump machine-gunning himself in the foot makes this different, but it’s not enough to make events just happen from there.
Amir Khalid
@Jinchi:
If I were an infantry officer and needed a sniper on my team, I’d want Pelosi. She knows when to take the shot.
Repatriated
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
It’s the blood libel that justifies anything conservatives do, however appalling. They might be stealing children’s lunch money and locking other children in cages, takIng your wages and giving them to plutocrats, and maybe even selling us all out to our enemies, but LIBERALS KILL BABIES! so what can you do, right?
They care about it because it is their sole remaining piece of moral high ground. And they can’t question the premise (blastocyst=newborn) because otherwise everything they’ve tolerated for the sake of that one issue is suddenly their responsibility.
Amir Khalid
@Frankensteinbeck:
Pelosi has had the tactical nous thus far not to interfere with an adversary’s self-destruction.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Jinchi: Not waiting idly. Laying the foundation.
Do you think there haven’t been efforts to use the various outrages to move the whole thing forward? Everything was ready to go as soon as something caught on, but for whatever reason, things like babies in cages weren’t doing it. This did, and here we are.
Jinchi
@Amir Khalid: I’m not trying to knock Pelosi, I think she’s been playing Trump pretty well since she became Majority Leader.
But it was the whistleblower who took the shot in this case. Together with the career civil service and the IG who backed them up.
japa21
@Jinchi: None of those quotes are consistent with your original comment.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kelly: When you see them out in the open breaking the law to shape the 2020 election, it make waiting for it a less viable option. I believe Trump will be impeached but not removed from office. I hope the spectacle educates the public and hamstrings some of those carrying out his illegal orders.
Mandalay
@lamh36:
I’ve noticed reporters haranguing Harris over Biden ever since she went after him in the first debate. It’s notable that:
– This latest nonsense occurred the day after Harris had tweeted:
Obviously not good enough.
– I’m happy to be corrected, but I don’t see the media asking the other Democratic candidates about Biden.
RFPWB: running for president while black.
japa21
@Jinchi: And without people like them any attempt at impeachment or inquiry would have been doomed to failure in the public eye, which is where it needs to succeed whether the Senate convicts or not. And actually, the WB and so on flushed Trump into the open, then Nancy took the shot.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
pretty much where I am. I am not a Biden-hater, far from it, for a long time I had one foot in the ‘let’s play it safe and go with Uncle Joe” camp, but now I’m at a point where I think Biden is one of the less safe choices.
jeffreyw
@Ked: Pelosi picked up the fumble, then handed it off to to the fastest player on the field.
patrick II
@OzarkHillbilly:
That is some nice work. Sometimes I think police default mode is, if it’s different it must be wrong, so they tend to stop anything out of the ordinary.
Another Scott
@Jay C: Drum makes a good point that Donnie’s insisting there’s no quid-pro-quo and as long as Democrats don’t always complete the thought by saying there most definitely was a quid-pro-quo, then too many voters aren’t going to care.
It’s not just Donnie doing the usual arguing for America’s interests. It’s Donnie holding legally provided appropriations up as a bargaining chip to help his personal political campaign. There’s no equivalence at all, and Democrats need to make that clear. (Even though the ask was illegal (wanting foreign help in the election), what’s worse is all the other details in the q-p-q.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ked: Note how the Rs were already canceling primaries and chasing out the minor players. If Trump goes away in, say, December, then whoever the candidate is will be waaaay behind on campaign infrastructure. I’d guess Romney as an inertia candidate, and he has good baggage to exploit.
if trump were to be pushed out, I don’t think Romney or Pence (or Paul Ryan, or Marco Rubio) could survive the on-slaught from Nikki Haley, Chris Christie and Josh Hawley– just to list, in order, the ones I think could win the nomination, to say nothing of the Flying Crazy Squadron of Tom Cotton, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul.
Sloane Ranger
@Anya:
Hey! I have a low to non existent s*x drive and I have a life! If you enjoy s*x, great. I wish you well but I don’t feel I’ve missed out on anything because I’ve never wanted it!
Repatriated
@Dorothy A. Winsor: At this point, there’s a fair chance he’ll be 25th Amendmented for — actual or feigned — incontrovertible health reasons if he doesn’t resign first, in order to preempt a formal impeachment.
The window for that is rapidly closing, however.
Another Scott
@Anya: His SC voters love Donnie, so he does too.
Simple as that, IMHO. Could be wrong though.
Cheers,
Scott.
Frankensteinbeck
@Sloane Ranger:
You’re the lucky one. As much as I love it, lust makes life more difficult in a hundred ways.
low-tech cyclist
Nate Silver:
Yeah, like the way the previous proceedings in the Judiciary Committee in 1974 dulled the impact of the “smoking gun” tape.
The other thing is, the Ukraine thing might not have even *happened* if the Dems had gone after Trump over the Mueller Report when it was released. Trump’s takeaway from the Dems’ collective shrug over the report was that he could get away with pretty much *anything* and the Dems wouldn’t do jack shit.
That was the wrong message to send, even if it resulted in a super-impeachable offense. Best to keep them from happening in the first damn place.
Tim C.
@Mandalay: agree 1000 percent. The root of this rot isn’t at the top. It’s the racist, inbred knuckleheads that make up the GOP. Trump is frankly the perfect representation of what Republican voters are. No exceptions.
H.E.Wolf
@O. Felix Culpa:
Dropping in from a mostly off-the-grid trip to say Amen, and to thank you for the work you’ve been (and are) doing.
Frankensteinbeck
@low-tech cyclist:
It would have happened. Trump isn’t going to stop now, either. He’s just going to whine a lot more.
Kelly
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I completely agree.
joel hanes
@J R in WV:
I suspect it’s not trolling, but genuine purity-motivated hatred of most of the Democratic Party establisment. One fount of this kind of thing is Howie Kurtz’s Down With Tyranny blog, which can no longer bring myself to read.
low-tech cyclist
Nate Silver:
The argument is that we had the chance to trade for him a season earlier, and why the fuck did we wait?
joel hanes
@Jinchi:
Those demanding impeachment much earlier were doing good service; that was an essential part of getting us to where we are. Reluctant D House members had to be moved, and public opinion helps.
Helped, because here we are.
joel hanes
@A Ghost To Most:
It wasn’t luck, but fate.
IMHO, it was a shrewd estimate of Trump’s character, combined with Capitol Hill scuttlebutt about what was going on in the executive branch, combined with a lifetime of political experience and some superb perception management.
Obviously, others disagree.
joel hanes
@low-tech cyclist:
We had but rejected a chance to have a better Speaker than Pelosi?
Who would that have been?
Certainly not the insufferable and gormless Seth Moulton.
japa21
@Frankensteinbeck: Perhaps the fact that he has doubled down on it after the inquiry announcement is missed by many people. I never understood the argument that starting the impeachment process earlier would have made him act differently.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
It was also the lesson of Game of Thrones.
H.E.Wolf
@Mary G:
It’s an interesting phenomenon, isn’t it.
Remarkable, the vanity involved in believing that one has a better grasp of political tactics than someone who’s risen through the ranks of the US House, over decades, to hold its most powerful office on two separate occasions.
Frankensteinbeck
@low-tech cyclist:
Leaving aside that you have completely missed the point of the metaphor…
We are not representative of Democratic voters and ‘gettable’ voters, who were severely split on impeachment.
An impeachment that does not convict and remove him will not even slow down Trump. This will be a statement, nothing more.
When McConnell acquits, what is the public reaction going to be? Will the people bitching at the Democrats for not impeaching be satisfied? No, they’re not satisfied now. The overwhelming reaction when McConnell acquits will be that Democrats somehow messed it up and are weak.
The media wouldn’t be and isn’t going to be much interested in impeachment hearings. You can already see it. Trump shooting himself in the foot again and again is driving the current coverage, and the impeachment is a result, not a cause.
Put all of those together, and for an elected Democrat impeachment becomes a matter of personal calculation, not an obvious necessity. They picked waiting for Trump to do something so gallingly obvious that even TV morons can see it’s illegal.
Another Scott
@Repatriated: +1
Repost – Jill Lepore in the New Yorker in 2011:
It’s always been, and always will be, about politics and ways to split up natural Democratic coalitions.
Republicans know that they cannot win a majority based on honest arguments for what they want to accomplish. So they always go for trumped-up (heh) lizard brain notions – “Baby killers!” – gerrymandering, restricting voting access, and all the rest.
I like to think and hope that humanity will become less susceptible to this kind of dangerous nonsense as we move forward, but it’s going to be a long slog (even if scientists find the magic part of our brains that make us respond to this stuff and develop a vaccine for it!).
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
@PPCLI:
Trump is calling it “the transcript”, bold mine.
It’s clearly a fictional account, as you say, crafted to align with the whistleblower complaint, with language that is obviously not consistent with D.J. Trump’s known extemporaneous speech capabilities. It will fall apart as more information emerges.
Frankensteinbeck
@Bill Arnold:
And yet, even this edited document is a confession of committing the crime. He clearly asks a foreign leader to meddle in American politics. Quid Pro Quo would be icing on the cake, but he’s already delivered what we need.
Jinchi
@Frankensteinbeck:
I’m gonna disagree here. Trump started extorting Ukraine the day after Mueller’s testimony and he slammed the breaks the day Pelosi opened the impeachment inquiry.
He’ll do as much as he thinks he can get away with. He risks prosecution even if the Senate never convicts.
I think the overwhelming reaction will be that the Republican party is completely corrupt and people will be motivated to kick them out of power.
Ruckus
@What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:
Everything is pretend except the money. Their god is money. Everything is about the money. They have no idea how to earn money – do something for others that creates value. And that part about doing something for others, they don’t understand that either. They understand having money and nothing else. The story of the golden calf was about republicans. And seeing as how they don’t know how to earn money they destroy to get it.
cain
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
A lot of people won’t read the transcript. They have faith in the president and will instead just augment this tweet because they’ve defined their reality by the bile that comes out of the President’s mouth. Faith apparently can work negatively too.
Bill Arnold
@cain:
There’s a released transcript??? Link? /s
What has been released is a “A Memorandum of a Telephone Conversation”, purportedly written by “situation Room Duty officers and NSC policy staff”. Per the document itself.
Gelfling 545
@OzarkHillbilly: I live in a very working class section of my city but in easy walking distance (for my aged self) is the city line & the first ring suburb. It is marked by a street that might as well be named Ostentation Avenue. A great many , most actually, of the abodes are of designs more appropriate to the public library than a private home.
Uncle Cosmo
@Frankensteinbeck: After you’ve self-impeached, the next step is to self-immiserate. Another signpost down the road toward self-removal, self-indictment, self-conviction & self-imprisonment.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Missed the whole “China, if you’re listening, and you care about that trade deal we’re working on” story, didja?
Or the death threats against the whistle blower?
Has he told Don McGahn to go before Congress and testify honestly and truthfully?
Has he granted the Intel Committees access to the ‘secret server”?
I guess I miss a lot of news, too
Mnemosyne
@Jinchi:
Not a single one of those comments is saying that citizens should not have been calling for impeachment since the Democrats gained a majority in the House.
What people here are pushing back against are the idiots like smintheus who are pissed off that it’s happening NOW rather than when they think it should have happened.
I think that Pelosi is a far better strategist than any of the online armchair quarterbacks whining about how they would have done things differently. YMMV.
Mnemosyne
@low-tech cyclist:
Somehow I missed this “collective shrug” by the Democrats over the Mueller Report. Did it happen before or after Mueller publicly testified to the House at the request of the Democrats?
Ruckus
@Citizen Alan:
Quoted in agreement
And also it gives them someone else to hate – and collect money from to keep up the “good” fight.
...now I try to be amused
@Another Scott:
I’ve come to think that left-wing politics will always be a harder sell than right-wing politics, especially in times of perceived scarcity when the lizard brain takes over.
Bill Arnold
@Mnemosyne:
There are some who argue that the timing suggests that Trump was emboldened (though probably more by Fox News’s treatment of Mueller’s testimony):
Trump’s phone call with Ukraine’s president: read the full memorandum (25 Sep 2019)
There had already been a lot of preliminary work, but it is possible that Trump was emboldened during the call a bit.
SWMBO
@Jinchi: I think a lot of it will depend on how hard the media spins it. Just because Chuckles and Tapper are against Trump at the moment, doesn’t mean they will not revert to “both sides” or “complete and total exoneration”. This isn’t over or even close at the moment. It depends on a lot of pieces functioning as they should rather than as they will.
Tapper made his bones on “butter emails”. That shit is getting dragged back into daylight by this too. The other side is going to fling bullshit at anything and everything to make this “all politicians do it”.
Mnemosyne
@Bill Arnold:
Trump was “emboldened” by his malignant narcissism, which demands that he double down on any action that is criticized by anyone else. We have seen him do this in public over and over and over again. Anytime someone criticizes his words or actions, he deliberately does them again to prove that that person is not the boss of him.
I realize that this goes against what most people understand about human psychology, but that’s why narcissists are so difficult to deal with. The system of rewards and punishments that work on normal people will actually backfire when used on a narcissist, because protecting their fragile ego is top priority for them, not getting rewards or avoiding punishment.
Uncle Cosmo
@Repatriated: No there isn’t. Because unless he is incontrovertibly physically disabled (& maybe not even then) Needy Amin will contest any statement of disability. Once that happens (& you have to figure Twitler’s “Am Not!” would get to the Capitol within an hour or two of when he hears about it) anyone who’s signed on what Hair Furor will no doubt squeal is a “COUP!!!!” becomes a target for his base. Furthermore, the 25th only allows Cheeto Benito to be pushed aside for a maximum of 25-27 days (4 days max for VPOTUS & Cabinet to reassert the statement of disability once POTUS has contested it, plus 21 days for Congress to act, plus 48 hours for Congress to reconvene if not already in session) unless both House and Senate vote by 2/3 majority to continue the Acting Presidency. For that to happen as Congress is currently constituted would require at least 20 GOP votes in the Senate (67 – 45 D’s – 2 I’s) and at least 53 GOP votes in the House (289** – 235 D’s – 1 I) – every one of whose careers would be forfeit to the fury of the Trumpista base at their next election.
Tl;dr – Not gonna happen. Easier & more likely to impeach the sumbidge.
** Of 435 seats in the House, 2 are currently vacant & will not be filled until January 2020 at the earliest; 2/3 x 433 = 288 2/3.)
NotMax
@Uncle Cosmo
Were the 25th being seriously considered, wouldn’t put it past Dolt 45 to send in someone to fire the cabinet en masse.
Neldob
Chance favors the prepared mind.
Jinchi
@SWMBO:
And on that point, I give you the current NYTimes headline:
smintheus
@Jinchi: They’re cultists. Many of them insisted during the 2018 campaign that Pelosi was pretending for tactical reasons that she opposed impeachment, and would come out for aggressive investigations as soon as Democrats won the House. Then when Pelosi held course, they reversed themselves and insisted that she was 100% right to put the kabosh on impeachment. And now that Pelosi has been forced to reverse her opposition, they’ve reversed again and are pretending that they and Pelosi both were playing 20 dimensional chess all along just waiting for Trump to walk into their impeachment trap. It’s really wild watching the gymnastics as they seek to reconcile and justify it all. Absolutely anathema to point out what everyone in DC knows, that Pelosi screwed this up and facilitated Trump’s increasing lawlessness.
Some of them also enjoy ridiculing Republicans who refuse to acknowledge any shortcomings in Trump, as if there are no flying monkees on the Democratic side who attack any critics of their own partisan idols.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@smintheus: So when are you going to identify that smoking gun that Pelosi ignored earlier? You know, the one that you are convinced would have overturned all of the resistance to impeachment among her caucus and caused the scales to fall from the eyes of the media?
The alternative to a cultiist would be someone open to being convinced. In order to establish that we’re not open to being convinced, you first have to provide an actual argument, not just say “I’m right and your wrong lol”. (sic)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@smintheus:
oh my god, that’s hilarious
AND YOU CAN PROVE EVERYONE ELSE IS A CULTIST IF WE WOULD JUST FOLLOW THE DIAGRAM YOU CAREFULLY MADE ON THE WALL WITH PICTURES YOU CUT OUT OF THE PAPER AND RED YARN!
more seriously: The facts changed. The revelations from the whistle-blower, and even more so trump’s own self-own with the notes from his phone call changed the minds of a lot of people, in the general public and in the House Democratic caucus. Is this really too hard for you to understand? The world is more complicated, and the American electorate less alert, engaged and patriotic than you, or I, or Nancy Pelosi might like it to be. There are lots of examples of this that predate the Wicked Witch of San Francisco, or the evil Wall St Speech givin’ Hillary Clinton, or the neo-liberal secret Republican sell-out Barack Obama. Maybe cancel your subscription to Jacobin and cull your twitter feed of roses.
Impeachment is under way. It wouldn’t have been three weeks ago. Because Pelosi didn’t have a majority. Then things changed, and she did. Take the win, my screechy emo friend. And go for a walk or something.
Mnemosyne
@smintheus:
Still waiting for your proof that Pelosi genuinely opposed impeachment and was dragged into this rather than that she was trying to get the rest of her caucus on board. Hint: the fact that she opposed Bush II’s impeachment is no longer germane to the topic since it was 12 years and 2 presidents ago.
I realize that you dopes think that the way to get a large and diverse group of people to work together is by haranguing them until they go along just to shut you up because it works on your small group of friends and family, but that’s not actually how the world works once you’re trying to get a group of more than about 20 people to all agree and work together.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Even before Al Gore was a phony environmentalist because his mother owned stock in an oil company and Tipper wanted to put stickers on Metallica albums so not a dime’s worth of difference. Man.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This is what I don’t get. All of the whiners like smintheus could be taking a victory lap right now and saying that they finally argued Pelosi down and she came over to their way of thinking. We might even be willing to agree with them that keeping the pro-impeachment pressure on from the Democratic side helped Pelosi make her decision and that they were very smart to keep the pressure up.
But, no, their sense of personal grievance means that they can’t take “yes” for an answer. If someone gives them exactly what they’ve been asking for, then they switch to whining that they didn’t get it sooner rather than being happy that they got the exact thing they wanted.
These are the people who spent months moping as kids because they got the toy they wanted for their birthday instead of for Christmas and now their whole lives are ruined!
Bill Arnold
@Mnemosyne:
FWIW, this was part of Pelosi’s political calculation. Heck, she even said so obtusely a few times. This is politics (and she’s competent relative to the opposition), with her in role of cat-herder. It works best when people don’t believe it, though. :-)
Anya
@Sloane Ranger: I am so sorry. I didn’t mean it the way it came out. I meant to say, some people are more focused on their work. I didn’t mean to link Asexuality with not having a life. Bad sentence structure is the culprit. I know this is a dead thread but I just wanted to clarify.
smintheus
@Mnemosyne: So it’s “whining” to point out that the Pelosi-as-mastermind triumphalism is contradicted by the facts? To notice that she has painted Democrats into a corner with her assinine posturing against impeachment (‘Trump isn’t worth it’)?
Or maybe you haven’t figured out that the Dems under Pelosi’s mismanagement look hypocritical/unprincipled if they now investigate the Trump crimes that they just shrugged off earlier? Great “strategy” there: we get to talk about the Ukraine collusion/coverup/obstruction of justice but have to stay silent about the Russian collusion/coverup/obstruction of justice!
What the f*ck is wrong with you Pelosi cultists that you can’t acknowledge she has really screwed this up in ways that are going to continue to play out badly for Democrats?
smintheus
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: How many times does the obvious have to be restated? Impeachment hearings don’t begin with the smoking gun: they are opened to develop a body of evidence that will persuade members of Congress to vote to impeach. Pelosi was against holding those hearings because “impeaching Trump for his bad behavior isn’t worth it”.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
My god. You just get dumber.
Mnemosyne
@smintheus:
Um, why do Democrats have to stay silent about Russian collusion while they discuss Ukraine, exactly? I’m curious to hear your rationale, because it seems fucking insane.
The only “cultist” here is the guy who can’t admit that he was wrong when he thought that Pelosi was personally opposed to impeachment and is now twisting himself into hilarious pretzels trying to hang onto his incorrect assumptions.
As I said above, you could have done a victory lap saying that you had helped Pelosi see the light, but you are so incapable of giving her any credit whatsoever that you refuse to take “yes” for an answer.