Election 2020 Open Thread: GOOD NEWS! – Senator Sanders Survived A Myocardial Infarction

No snark: I’m old enough to remember, which means Bernie is certainly old enough to remember, when a great many men didn’t survive sudden-onset unstable angina. Especially men of his age. No matter what my personal feelings about the Sanders candidacy, I have no interest in hearing the mainstream media spend the next year giving credence to those, shall we say, more creative Sandernistas (and the Russian bots who support them) claiming that Elizabeth Warren is the inheritor of the dreadful Hillary Clinton Death Squad machinery.

With no obituaries to write, that same mainstream media is back to skirmishing with those same supporters…

Don’t love the ‘Lady MacBeth’ memes, but Jane O’Meara Sanders grew up in a working-class Irish-American parish just a couple of years & a few miles from the one I grew up in. The (bitter) joke among my people was that they called us Harps because we could never stop playing over our grievances in public… and, all too often, this led to playing Heavenly harps of gold, because it’s a dangerous habit to get into.

Jane and Bernie seem to be, whatever their private lives, deeply committed business partners. Political observers have pointed out that this would be a very reasonable time for Bernie to nobly withdraw from the race, take his latest $25mil quarterly donation haul, and settle back to a new role as kingmaker for the remaining candidates to court. But if Jane feels like her guy is being told Go home old man, she’s only too likely to demand that he fight on, even if that should happen to kill him. I’m not proud to say this, but we Harps do love our warrior martyrs.

127 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Heart attack

    Heart attack, Wilmer.

  2. 2
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Jason Chaffetz has doth decreed that Lord High Protector Trump did nothing wrong when trying to extort Ukraine and China to have Biden thrown in prison. He was only doing his job!


    ETA: I hope Sanders a speedy recovery. I wish him no physical ill-will. Though, I think he should drop out of the race, along with Biden. I don’t think either of them have the stamina to be POTUS

  3. 3
    Elizabelle says:

    I wish Bernie the grace and good health to bow out. Enough.

  4. 4
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Don’t love the ‘Lady MacBeth’ memes,

    in those tweets? not seeing it

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    Funny, no one ever talks about the raw deal he laid on his first wife.

  6. 6
    lollipopguild says:

    Now Anne we all know that Obama used his HeartAttack Machine(TM) to kill Breitbart and I am sure that Obama passed it on to Killery. Someone needs to ask Killery why she has not used it on trump.

  7. 7
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Or his rape stories

  8. 8
    Yarrow says:

    Never misses an opportunity to hurt people.

    Trump to issue executive proclamation requiring applicants for immigrant visas to show proof of health coverage https://t.co/BJiXwbHn4p— Mike Walker (@New_Narrative) October 4, 2019

  9. 9
    Cacti says:

    Somewhere, somehow, I know this has to be Hillary Clinton’s fault.

  10. 10
    chris says:

    I wish Bernie well and hope he retires from the fray. At his age a myocardial infarction is a big fucking deal and the prognosis is not great. But then he’s Bernie…

  11. 11
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    He signed some dumb Medicare EO in the Villages, FL the other day, claimed evil Democrats were going to steal seniors’ healthcare. Included creating health care savings accounts or something. I’ll have to ask David Anderson his take on it.

    Re: immigration. This guy is a fucking dick

  12. 12
    Cacti says:

    Just saw this.

    Median life expectancy for someone who has a heart attack at age 75 or older:

    3.1 years

  13. 13
    patrick II says:

    @Yarrow: +

    Trump doesn’t think up all of these things himself — he’s too busy watching FOX and blackmailing foreign countries. My guess is Steven Miller, but any one of his White House sadistic, racist, sycophants could come up with this crap to earn brownie points.

  14. 14
    joel hanes says:

    I wish Bernie well and hope he retires

    … and I further hope that he lives, healthy, long enough to see this nation move in a direction more to his liking, even if the exact policies are not as he would have chosen them.

  15. 15
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Was the dinner that SPW sent over loaded with cholesterol? That would be funny.

  16. 16
    Cameron says:

    I’m a Bernie fan, but I really wish he would drop out of the race. Hell, I had to have open-heart surgery for a clogged artery when I was 64, and I was out of commission for a year, Stick with being a Senator, dude.

  17. 17
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Don’t worry, VP Jill Stein would be ready to take over!

  18. 18
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    when people like this take these kinds of jobs and do things like this, do they not get that it will become public?
    Sondland, 61, appears to have never held a position in government before being named U.S. ambassador to the

    European Union in June 2018. He amassed much of his wealth by acquiring and managing luxury hotels in cities including Seattle and Portland, Ore. […]
    In Brussels, Sondland garnered a reputation for his truculent manner and fondness for the trappings of privilege. He peppered closed-door negotiations with four-letter words. He carried a wireless buzzer into meetings at the U.S. Mission that enabled him to silently summon support staff to refill his teacup.

    I guess those diplomatic training courses he took said he could where his “I’m a Douche!’ neon-colored baseball cap

    Sondland also shuttled repeatedly back to Washington, often seeking face time with Trump. When he couldn’t gain entry to the Oval Office, officials said, he would meet instead with White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney, preferring someone closer to Trump’s inner circle than national security officials responsible for Europe.
    “He always seemed to be in D.C.,” a former White House official said. “People would say, ‘Does he spend any time in Brussels?’ ”

    Where do you think he stayed in DC? is it too late to place a bet?

  19. 19
    joel hanes says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    [Trump] signed some dumb Medicare EO

    One of the implications of that EO is that Medicare pays too little, and that the higher costs paid by private insurance should set the standard for Medicare payments to providers.


  20. 20
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I saw Leno back before the Late Night Wars. He was funny. I heard him on Marc Maron’s podcast a year or so ago, he pretty much owns it all. ‘Yeah, I’m kind of a dick, but I’m happily married and richer than god.’

    In early June, Sondland threw a lavish Independence Day reception — a month ahead of the U.S. holiday — at a cavernous antique car museum in central Brussels.
    An enormous U.S. flag was projected onto a wall. Jay Leno — whom Sondland billed as a personal friend — delivered a standup routine whose U.S.-focused patter fell flat on the ears of European officials. At a private dinner afterward, Sondland hosted an eclectic mix of guests. Among those at the candlelit table were Zelensky, Leno and Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner.

    the Zelig of trump corruption…
    I wouldn’t mind visiting that museum. Brussels is underrated as a destination, as I recall, nice gardens, cool architecture, beer and fries and mussels and gyros, good art museum

  21. 21
    tokyokie says:

    A myocardial infarction means that a portion of the heart, because of lack of blood supply, has died. Balloon angioplasty, stents, and even bypass surgery can address the blockages, but if an MI occurs before such measures are taken, part of the heart is dead, and even though diet and exercise can strengthen the rest of the heart and perhaps compensate for the damage caused by the MI, it’s still a case that heart function will be inalterably reduced going forward.

  22. 22
    Jeffro says:

    There sure are a lot of folks heavily invested in keeping ol’ Wilmer around as a spoiler for the Dems.

    I wonder why that is?

    Here’s wishing him well, and wishing that he makes good choices – ones that truly benefit the causes he professes to believe in – from here on in.

  23. 23
    Yarrow says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Jason Chaffetz who abruptly quit his job in the House of Representatives shortly after rumors of scandals including a multi-year affair and Russian money-laundering broke? That guy? He made noises about running for Governor of Utah but for some weird reason, even though that office is wide open (no incumbent) in 2020, he’s decided against running. Hard to imagine why such a fine upstanding guy would strongly defend Trump. Hmmm…..

  24. 24
    Jeffro says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: trumpov’s actual tweet on the matter said something like “I’m going to protect Medicare from the damn soshulists who want Medicare for All!”

    THAT makes sense, right? “I’m going to protect your dinner table by fighting tooth and nail against Meals For Everyone, Every time”

    Only in America…

  25. 25
    Jeffro says:


    [Chaffetz] made noises about running for Governor of Utah but for some weird reason, even though that office is wide open (no incumbent) in 2020, he’s decided against running. Hard to imagine why such a fine upstanding guy would strongly defend Trump. Hmmm…..

    You can almost hear the rubles dropping into the coin slot, can’t you? I can.

  26. 26
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I spent a summer in Brussels at the EEC headquarters studying, uh, EEC law. The cool place to be on Friday night? On the train to Paris.

  27. 27
    Another Scott says:

    I can’t find it now, but someone here (I think) posted a link to a twitter video of Sanders looking very bad at the event, taking off his jacket, asking for a chair, etc. I’m glad the doctors fixed him up, but it seems unlikely to me that he’s going to be running on all cylinders in ~ 11 days at the next debate.

    His Iowa ad buy being back on says something, but it’s “only” $400,000 and leaves his options open I guess.

    Is he gonna listen to his heart?

    We’ll see.

    Get well Wilmer, and retire from the race.


  28. 28
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Ha!
    but did you go to the car museum?

    @Jeffro: Or the echoes of a phone call from the patriarch of either the Romney or Huntsman clan consisting of one word: No.
    I wonder if Abby Huntsman is mean enough to want to shatter a Mormon glass ceiling and stab Tagg with one of the shards.

  29. 29
    HumboldtBlue says:

    I’m a bit shamefaced I am fluent in American English only, a simple monoglot, but damn if I can’t understand Dona

    De Mi Rancho a Tu Cocina. (pollito enchilado)

  30. 30
    Ken says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Brussels is underrated as a destination

    Well, at least it’s not fookin’ Bruges.

  31. 31
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I was mostly focused on le mannekin pis. I like to think that I’ve matured since then, but my wife disagrees.

  32. 32
    Another Scott says:

    @Ken: My J loved, loved, loved visiting Bruges. Hah! :-)


  33. 33
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: Can you even buy health insurance in the US if you aren’t resident in the US?

  34. 34
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Another Scott:

    His Iowa ad buy being back on says something, but it’s “only” $400,000

    Conversation at dinner tonight included a reference to a trust fund that is “only $400-500,000”. Quel dommage, n’est-ce pas?

    Eat the rich! Which we would have done, but the wine was more suited to the lamb.

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ken: I love Bruges, and that movie. That one fucking scene with the American tourist….

  36. 36
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: The EO actually mandates that Medicare and Medicare Advantage start billing like private insurance in order to create competition in the market. Which actually would destroy Medicare.

  37. 37
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Steve in the ATL: You’ll love Prague, then.

  38. 38
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: And that’s why he’s rolling over for Congress. He’s not an elected GOP official, he’s one of the people that actually owns the GOP. And he’s not going to go to prison or risk one penny of his fortune to cover for any of those people he’s been paying for for decades.

  39. 39
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Kyle Griffin
    : Two congressional sources tell NBC News that U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland will appear Tuesday for a joint deposition before the House Foreign Affairs, Intelligence and Oversight Committees.

    Pretty soon it won’t matter if Barr/Trump protect the higher-ups in the administration. Asking them what happened is a waste of time anyway.

  40. 40
    randy khan says:

    I said this somewhat more politely at LGM, but I’m kind of ticked off at Sanders and/or the campaign for not telling us he had a heart attack until three days later. They almost certainly knew soon after he had the stents inserted, and certainly by the time they made their first public statement. We really don’t need other candidates following the bad example Trump set and not being straight with us about their health situations.

    (Also: I have seen a credible explanation of why it’s very unlikely they didn’t know it was a hearth attack by Wednesday morning, but if they really didn’t know, they had no business issuing statements about his prognosis, including that he would be in the October 15 debate, before they had the necessary information.)

  41. 41
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @joel hanes:
    Fuck that. That will help bankrupt the Medicare trust fund

    Yeah, such an upstanding dude 🙄. He gives me the creeps. Just something about his face


    Somebody earlier in the day linked to screenshot of reddit comments where an alleged Trump supporter came right out and said that right and wrong didn’t matter. That they’ve built their entire worldview around Trump and that there is no right or wrong, only winning and losing, and nothing will change their minds

    That’s some of what we’re up against. Only in America indeed

  42. 42
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Another Scott:

    I’m glad the doctors fixed him up

    They made a running repair. A proper fixing up will take the rest of Bernie’s life and require many changes to his diet and daily habits, not least reducing exposure to stress. It’s fair for prospective voters to assess if he can/should do all that and run for president.

  43. 43
    joel hanes says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    That will help bankrupt the Medicare trust fund

    One might suspect that’s the goal.
    Well, that plus further enriching providers, and thus buying their votes, in much the same manner that Trump purposes to buy the votes of farmers with bailout money.

  44. 44
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    How does Trump (or his donors) personally benefit from this. That’s always the question we have to ask

  45. 45
    Kay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Isn’t it the most insane thing? The Trump Administration got together and said “how can we make Medicare cost a lot more?”

    They’re now actively destroying the health care coverage we have. We were better off when they spending all their time committing crimes.

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Another Scott: Can you even do cardiac rehab while trying to campaign for president? The latter is not exactly compatible with the former.

  47. 47
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jeffro: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Chaffetz had been Huntsman’s protege. And then Chaffetz turned on him. Huntsman can’t stand him and for the portion of the Utah/Latter Day Saints elites and notables that are pro-Huntsman, Chaffetz is persona non grata.

  48. 48
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Given what I’ve read about private equity buying up ERs and medical practices, then jacking up rates thru the sky when they can get away with it (viz. “balance billing”), I’d guess that your question has at least a few easy answers. Perhaps other more complex ones, but there are so many obvious culprits with their hands out (and their checkbooks open ….)

  49. 49
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @randy khan: I suspect that damage he’s done by creating his cult three years ago is unfixable, let’s hope it’s manageable, can be overcome with other voters. And maybe people will stop throwing money better spent elsewhere and later at him.

  50. 50
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kay: Please see my comment at #38.

  51. 51
    Another Scott says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Wilmer spent something like that on that whirlwind trip to “visit the Pope” in 2016.

    Sanders’ most expensive trip over the primary season appears to be one not directly related to his campaign: his April excursion to the Vatican City for a conference hosted by its Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences.

    Sanders spoke at the conference and had a quick exchange with Pope Francis. He then flew nine hours back to America for his final burst of campaigning before the New York primary, which he lost.

    Officials at Air Charter Team declined Thursday to discuss the exact cost of the flight to Italy, and Sanders spokesman Michael Briggs did not return multiple requests for comment.

    But an April FEC report shows $562,746 in payments to Air Charter on April 14, two days before Sanders’ overseas trip.

    It’s pocket change to him.

    I’d prefer to tax the rich rather than eat them, myself. ;-)

    During the administration of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, from 1953 to 1961, the top income bracket in the United States climbed to a marginal tax rate of 91 percent. Taxes on corporate profits were two times as great as they are in 2017, and that’s before the current proposal to cut that rate to 21 percent. The tax on large estates rose to more than 70 percent. Businesses operated under a relatively high tax burden, and they employed a labor force in which one-third of the workers were unionized and bargained with executives as equals. Corporations served a diversity of stakeholders as opposed to stockholders. The result was a booming economy that benefited most Americans.

    In 1955, Fortune magazine noted approvingly that the incomes of the top 0.01 percent of Americans were less than half what they had been in the late 1920s, and their share of total income was down by 75 percent. In the 1950s, the average corporate CEO received 20 times more compensation than the firm’s typical employee; by 2016, CEOs’ salaries averaged more than 200 times those of the average worker.

    Americans in the 1950s enjoyed what economists called “the virtuous circle of growth”: Well-paid workers fueled consumer demand, which, in turn, generated business expansion and hiring, raising corporate profits, which produced higher wages and more hiring. A consumer culture flourished and, therefore, so did the economy. Fortune noted that, by the mid-1950s, the number of middle-class families was increasing by 1.1 million a year.

    Some economists (Pikety? Angry Bear? Others?) did some figuring a few years ago, looking at history and the US economy was strongest when the top marginal rate was something like 75%. Until we have a way to do something like Warren’s 2% over $50M wealth tax, we need much higher marginal rates for those that have made the vast majority of the gains in the last 40 years. It’s killing the middle and lower classes, and the economy, not to do so.


    And just for you – Grrr….!


  52. 52
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    A proper fixing up will take the rest of Bernie’s lif

    No, that’s not quite right. Bernie’s heart situation is not fixable, but it is manageable.

  53. 53
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I’m a nursing student, not a cardiologist, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say probably not, especially not a 78 year old.

    He really should just suspend his campaign. I don’t personally like the man, but I don’t want to see him collapse and die

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: That’s the point: to bankrupt the Medicare trust fund and destroy the program. It doesn’t matter how many times it is explained to them, Republicans and conservatives on Medicare/approaching Medicare age refuse to believe this is actually what the Republicans and the conservative movement are trying to do.

  55. 55
    Eolirin says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Wait how does this affect the 80/20 split that Medicare has with patient out of pocket costs? If this works the way I’m thinking that’s going to do more than just bankrupt Medicare.

  56. 56
    Yarrow says:

    @Another Scott: I thought he looked unwell at the last debate. There was something wrong with his voice and he took a few days off the campaign trail to rest it shortly after, but it wasn’t just that. He looked flushed and unwell.

  57. 57
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Chaffetz had been Huntsman’s protege. And then Chaffetz turned on him

    I was half-snarking. The Huntsman who was governor, or the Old Man Himself? Is he still with us?

    that may be the worst thing I’ve ever heard about the Huntsmans, and I don’t like them. One of the podcasting O’Bros, Rhodes I think, recently told a story about Jon Huntsman from the Obama years, not interesting enough that I remember, but I think the upshot was he’s a cynical, ambitious and shallow. Not shocking, I know.
    ETA: is there a feud between the Romneys and the Huntsmans to see who can be the Boss of Utah, or did I make that up in my head because I want it to be true?

  58. 58
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Longstanding Republican and movement conservative goal has been destroying the New Deal and the social insurance programs that are rooted in it.

  59. 59
    joel hanes says:

    @Another Scott:

    the US economy was strongest when the top marginal rate was something like 75%.
    … we need much higher marginal rates for those that have made the vast majority of the gains in the last 40 years

    quoted for truth.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Kay: I’m sure that AARP has their attorneys all teed up to file an injunction to stop the EO.

  61. 61
    Yarrow says:

    @Jeffro: Well, the rubles may have been dropping in the coin slot. These days he’s probably just hoping no one finds the kompromat.

  62. 62
    Kay says:


    It should probably get more attention. They snuck it past in the middle of the exposure of their crime spree and it’s almost certainly horrible and a rip off.

    Also, if it’s as bad as the rest of their work D’s could use it against them.

  63. 63
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @randy khan:

    We really don’t need other candidates following the bad example Trump set and not being straight with us about their health situations.

    How date you speak ill of the far, orange Dog Emperor who’s going to live to be 200!

  64. 64
    Another Scott says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Dunno.

    Biden seems to be running for president, and leading in many polls, by staying out of the news and attending big-dollar fundraisers that get little press. It’s hard to say what Wilmer can do going forward.

    What he should do is obvious to me. He should go back to being “just” a senator. We know that people can do that job as long as they can sit up and say “without objection it’s so ordered” when prompted by an aid sitting behind them.

    I expect him to drop out. If he’s smart he’ll do it before he loses Iowa and the rest of the contests and devote more time to recovery.

    My $0.02.


  65. 65
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: I’m not advocating or supporting physical harm to him. But I watched my mom go through cardiac rehab in 1998 after a triple bypass that was performed before she had a heart attack. I don’t see how he can do that and campaign and expect not to actually make things worse. Just the campaigning alone is going to make it worse. I would think that if he continues to campaign he runs the real risk, with an ever increasing probability, of causing significant further damage. I get ego, but something’s just aren’t worth it. If he was smart, or if he had people around him who actually carried about him as a person, not as a source of income or a figurehead or as a potential martyr, they’d make it clear that he’s moved the party towards his positions, he can declare victory, become a grand old man of the party and the movement, go get healthy, and live as well as he can for as long as he can. Or he can kill himself so that David Sirota, Faz Shakir, and that comic book guy can bill 6 figures a month.

  66. 66
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Eolirin: I’m the “this is how you foment a rebellion and take over a country” guy. For details on what is proposed in the EO you need to speak to Dave Anderson who is the “I’ll explain insurance to you” guy.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ambassador Huntsman who was also Governor Huntsman. He hired Chaffetz. Gave him his start in Utah politics after he converted from Judaism to Latter Day Saint. Mentored him. And at the first opportune moment, Chaffetz stuck the knife right in Huntsman’s back.

  68. 68
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    become a grand old man of the party and the movement

    He could be the eminence grise of the “outside” movement that holds P(resident)PW’s feet to the fire, “making her do it” [h/t FDR, IIRC].He’d be feted as a kingmaker (well, queen-maker, but same diff) and ideas man. Oh, sigh.

  69. 69
    Eolirin says:

    @Kay: Given that it has the potential to make existing seniors’ medical bills completely unaffordable, for themselves and their families, yes, yes it does. And the electoral consequences of that should make the 2018 elections look like nothing. This is potentially the biggest and most egregiously self destructive political act in modern history.

    Even McConnell shies away from touching Medicare in an immediate way, and for good reason.

  70. 70
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: As for how the Romneys and the Hunstmans (Huntsmen? Hunstpeople?) get along, I have no idea.

  71. 71
    JWR says:

    @Jeffro: @Jeffro:

    You can almost hear the rubles dropping into the coin slot, can’t you?

    Speaking of rubles, I accidentally* came across The Jimmy Dore Show this afternoon, and wow, dude is freakin’ unreal. All this Trump-Ukraine stuff, said Dore, is far outweighed by the Joe and Hunter Biden corruption “scandal”. And that was just one of the GOP talking points he repeated, sometimes verbatim.

    I’ve long known that his show consisted of Bernie!Bro BS, with bad impersonations of Schumer and Pelosi, but I thought he was basically harmless. No more! Dude’s gotta go! I’m gonna write to KPFK demanding they remove him from their precious airwaves.

    *What really pisses me off is that he shares the 5PM (Friday) time slot with Ian Masters, (Mon-Thu), who puts on a great program, and I forgot that it’s Friday.

  72. 72
    Kay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I love this scandal because hundreds of people knew about it, so Trump/Barr can’t successfully obstruct. At some point the big shots will want to testify to tell their side of the story :)

  73. 73
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Can you even buy health insurance in the US if you aren’t resident in the US?

    Tourists can. I know people visiting from Europe buy tourist health insurance because if they have some health issue while here it would bankrupt them.

  74. 74
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: They don’t like each other, from what I’ve read.

  75. 75
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I didn’t mean to imply you did. I guess it kind of came out that way, didn’t it? I agree, he should just call it quits. In fact, he’s being pretty selfish. His Senate seat would go to a Republican wouldn’t it? Ohio is in the same situation. If Brown ever resigns his seat or dies, it will be Republican-held for the foreseeable future

  76. 76
    Kay says:


    Right. And they’re giant liars and sneaky too, so sliding it in amid the crime uproar should make everyone suspicious.

    I can’t even imagine who in this administration could explain a health care change anyway. Be like shooting fish in a barrel.

  77. 77
    Eolirin says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Vermont is unlikely to elect a republican to the senate.

  78. 78
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Yarrow: People with ethics that aren’t situational, which is my understanding of Ambassador Huntsman, usually don’t like those whose ethics are solely situational.

  79. 79
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Eolirin: http://www.ncsl.org/research/e.....enate.aspx

    [In Vermont] A date is set by the governor within 3 months following vacancy, unless vacancy occurs within 6 months of the general election, in which case the vacancy is filled at the general election

  80. 80
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Another Scott:

    Wilmer spent something like that on that whirlwind trip to “visit the Pope” in 2016.

    Entirely tangential, but: That trip was *most certainly* Jane’s doing — it’s the one ‘campaign gaffe’ I’m sure she’s responsible for, even if Sanders’ non-family staffers have the habit of blaming every misstep on her. For women of her background, getting to see The Pope in person — having him ‘bless’ Bernie’s candidacy!!! — actually *would* seem like a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, with a little bit of personal pilgrimage to add flavor. Don’t believe me? Read up on Rose Kennedy, or even her daughters. It wouldn’t have meant beans to Bernie, except perhaps as proof that he was important enough for the Pope to be consulting, but Jane would’ve swum the Atlantic, both ways, for that kind of “blessing”.

    (I cannot tell you how many times I have thanked the minor gods of chaos that I was not born just a crucial five or six years sooner, e.g. pre-Vatican II. The parochial school passed out copies of the Baltimore Catechism to my second-grade class, but Pope John XXIII’s conclave meant those questions were obsolete before we could be tested on them. The social divide between pre-VII and post-VIII meant almost as much for the girls in my high school class as that between pre- and post- Roe v. Wade.)

  81. 81
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Eolirin: they have a Republican governor

  82. 82
    Kay says:

    I made up with the Bernistas here, so much so that I was accused of being one last week. Not true but I didn’t deny it. One of them is running for US Congress in my district. He won;t win but I like him and I’m glad he’s running.
    Bernie isn’t going to win. I don’t see any point in keeping this fight with them going.

  83. 83
    Eolirin says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: So do/have a number of other very blue states and they rarely if ever elect them to the senate. It doesn’t say much. And as Chetan Murthy linked, the governor doesn’t get an appointment.

    Vermont is very blue. It is not like Ohio.

  84. 84
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Anne Laurie: I remember Cokie Boggs Roberts accompanying her mother to Lindy’s… investiture?… as Bill Clintons Ambassador.

    and of course…. this.

  85. 85
    mrmoshpotato says:


    Isn’t it Isn’t it the most insane thing? The Trump Administration got together and said “how can we make Medicare cost a lot more?”

    They’re now actively destroying the health care coverage we have.

    Also, it just screams, “Here’s a great idea! Let’s bankrupt and/or kill off our voting base – old white people!”

  86. 86
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Apparently Jon Huntsman is going back to Utah to maybe run for Governor again. The SL Tribune did an article on it and got some quotes from Chaffetz about it. You can tell there’s no love lost.

    “He’s well liked but he’s not nearly as conservative as he was when he first ran,” said Chaffetz, who managed Huntsman’s first campaign and then served as his spokesman, signaling that Huntsman may be vulnerable to an attack from the right, from someone, say, who is a Trump loyalist.

    Chaffetz said Huntsman will “do well at whatever he chooses to pursue. I know he’ll throw his heart and soul in it. But it’ll be interesting if the state will buy into more Huntsman-Herbert. It’s been that way for a long time.”

  87. 87
    joel hanes says:


    I don’t see any point in keeping this fight with them going.

    Thank you.

  88. 88
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @mrmoshpotato: *fat

  89. 89
    PJ says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Chaffetz sounds like a good Republican. I’m sure he’ll go far.

  90. 90
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Maybe I confused Vermont with New Hampshire?

  91. 91
    Delia says:

    I grew up in a liberal Dem family in Utah. My sister still lives there. She says that Huntsman was quite a good governor, was responsible for education, for things like building regional medical centers outside of Salt Lake City. She likes him a lot. Huntsman, though LDS, is discretely less-than-devout. The Romneys, of course, are extremely devout. That may be responsible for their dislike of each other.

  92. 92
    Geoboy says:

    @Adam L Silverman: surely you heard the Internet jest when Milo Yannopoulus (sp?), the right wing instigator of violence against the innocent, had his application to attend the upcoming Furries convention revoked? They declared him fursona non grata.

  93. 93
    mrmoshpotato says:


    They declared him fursona non grata.

    Butting in on NotMax’s territory I see.

  94. 94
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: they’re actually the same place, though they like to pretend otherwise

  95. 95
    Eolirin says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Those are both currently Ds too, and while NH may be a bit squishier than other NE states, they’re unlikely to go proper red any time soon. Really it’s just the Midwest and PA.

  96. 96
    hilts says:

    @Another Scott:

    Is he gonna listen to his heart?

    I wouldn’t count on it. Sanders and Biden are the poster boys for selfish, arrogant pricks who put their personal ambitions above the national interest.

    Any person who believes that either of these guys has the stamina to get through this long, grueling campaign and then get through 4 years in office battling Moscow Mitch every single day is a fucking moron.

    We need a younger nominee to go up against this savage Trump.

  97. 97
    Yarrow says:

    @Delia: Huntsman endorsed McCain for president in the 2008 primary instead of Romney. Apparently, that started the feud. There’s an entire book about it.

  98. 98
    Gretchen says:

    @Anne Laurie: You must be a few years younger than my pre-VII self. I had the Baltimore Catechism memorized cover to cover. My niece packed up her wedding dress to take to Rome on her honeymoon so the Pope could bless their marriage.

  99. 99
    Jay says:

    In the 1990s and 2000s the LaRouche movement tried to internationalize itself and often linked up with authoritarian governments worldwide. As an 'expert' LaRouche went on Russian govt-sponsored RT to attribute the Egyptian uprising as a British plot in 2011 pic.twitter.com/baz0DKpw09— Unicorn Riot (@UR_Ninja) October 5, 2019

  100. 100
    mrmoshpotato says:


    battling Moscow Mitch every single day

    I hope that the voters of Kentucky make that a non-reality.

  101. 101
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right. Also Mrs. Gingrich #3 (#4?) getting The Albino Amphibian to ‘convert’, and then working hard to get him appointed Ambassador to the Vatican. Still counts for some people, many of them women.

  102. 102
    cain says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    My grandmother is visiting and she had an issue that required hospital stay, there was no provision to buy medical insurance (eg you couldn’t get her on the ACA) So I’m not sure how this going to work. I almost feel like they are trying to cut off folks who are coming from countries like India.

  103. 103
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Anne Laurie: Also Mrs. Gingrich #3 (#4?) getting The Albino Amphibian to ‘convert’, and then working hard to get him appointed Ambassador to the Vatican.

    SHE is Ambassador to the Vatican. I am an extremely lapsed Catholic and I find that offensive and embarrassing. I’m a bit surprised more Catholics weren’t at least moved to publicly tsk tsk, if not more.

  104. 104
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Gretchen: I was born in 1955; Jane Sanders in 1950. She grew up in Queens, I grew up in the Bronx. If you’ve ever seen the play / movie DOUBT — that was basically a documentary…

  105. 105
    Yarrow says:

    @Anne Laurie: The current Mrs. Gingrich is the Ambassador to the Vatican.

  106. 106
    phdesmond says:

    delicioso, gracias!

  107. 107
    texasdoc says:

    @Eolirin: The downstream effects of changing Medicare rates to equal private insurance will be massive. If the rates are higher, the pt’s 20% portion will be higher. The cost of supplemental insurance policies to cover that 20% will go up too. Not to mention bankrupting Medicare sooner than is already projected (easily solved by making all income subject to the Medicare tax, but that’s not going anywhere until dems control all three branches of government).

  108. 108
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m a bit surprised more Catholics weren’t at least moved to publicly tsk tsk, if not more.

    Channeling my late Nana: “Well, she’s strong enough in her faith that she got him to convert to the True Church, didn’t she? Good publicity for our side!”

  109. 109
    Yarrow says:

    @cain: Was there no “tourist health insurance” option to buy before she left for the US? Maybe age is a factor with it being available/affordable.

  110. 110
    Gretchen says:

    @Anne Laurie: I was born in 1953, grew up Irish in Detroit.

  111. 111
    Jay says:

    A U.S. Senator had evidence of a criminal quid pro quo by the President of the United States and failed to report it.The Senate Ethics Committee should investigate what Sen. Johnson knew, when he knew it, and why he didn’t take appropriate action. https://t.co/cJfniBWd1m— Julián Castro (@JulianCastro) October 4, 2019

  112. 112
    cain says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    I can’t imagine what he is feeling.. I’m sure he feels like his body betrayed him while he is in a competitive race and is in fact competitive. I suppose you could either be saddened or enraged. Hopefully not enraged.

  113. 113
    Jay says:


    It’s Travel Medical Insurance, that you buy at home from a domestic provider, for the length of your stay, that covers a broad range of coverage, so that you don’t go bankrupt in the USA. Don’t leave home with out it.

    The same Companies provide long term coverage for people outside their “normal” medical area, hell holes like Somalia and the USA, for the retired, those working abroad or engaged in long term travel.

    When my Corporation sent me to the US, a critical part of my coverage was Medical Evacuation Flight Coverage, so I could be flown home for real medical treatment.

  114. 114
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Thanks for the history lesson

  115. 115
    Anne Laurie says:


    I don’t see any point in keeping this fight with them going.

    You’re right, as always. But as the public face of BJ Bernie-hatred, I kinda felt it was incumbent upon me to say something, just not during prime time.

    (Also, see above, re: Irish-American Harps.)

  116. 116
    Jay says:

    My son's cell # is now available on the same white supremacist site that doxxed and swatted us – linked directly to information that King County Sherriff's office made so easily available.— Ijeoma Oluo (@IjeomaOluo) October 4, 2019

  117. 117
    Eolirin says:

    @Jay: I would love nothing more than for Johnson to also get caught up in all of this and be forced to resign, but the odds of anything happening there seem extremely remote.

  118. 118
    cain says:

    Not sure. She’s 88. We aren’t sure she should come back. But otherwise she is in good shape. But if there are going to be rules we will probably have to think long and hard if we can bring her here.

  119. 119
    Jay says:

    If Facebook finds my scrutiny uncomfortable, here's what Mark Zuckerberg and his team could work on:—Ending his company's illegal anticompetitive practices—Protecting consumers' privacy instead of Facebook's profits—Ensuring Facebook isn’t undermining our election security pic.twitter.com/KPpuIYMcOf— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) October 5, 2019

  120. 120
    Jay says:

    Last year I wrote about Hyatt hotels hosting the annual gala of the anti-Muslim hate group ACT for America. Eventually, Hyatt agreed to no longer host hate groups. So where is ACT for America holding its conference now? The president's resort. https://t.co/Fs1vkbqJfR— Christopher Mathias (@letsgomathias) October 4, 2019

  121. 121
    Lurker1 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Yes. Even short-term visitors to the US on Tourist/Business visas can (should) purchase health insurance.

  122. 122
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    This is a trump fuck up. Reality is not in play here.

  123. 123
    Ruckus says:

    One can have a heart attack and not know it. I’m living proof.
    So it’s possible that BS didn’t actually know he had a heart problem or that he may have had multiple attacks, the second one putting him in the hospital.

  124. 124
    Anne Laurie says:


    One can have a heart attack and not know it. I’m living proof.

    Yeah, it’s more common for women to dismiss ‘atypical’ heart-attack symptoms as ‘heartburn’, or ‘pressure’ (‘like an elephant sitting on my chest’), it can happen to men, too. Especially men who — as a Politico article claimed about you-know-who, yesterday — find it annoying when the mere flesh refuses to conform to the rational mind.

  125. 125
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Don’t worry, Bernie will be back soon to provide aid and comfort to Dump’s campaign.

  126. 126
    Evap says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yes. When my Irish mother in law visited us in the US she always bought an insurance policy along with her plane ticket.

  127. 127
    Mai naem mobile says:

    @lollipopguild: No you’re all wrong. Killery did use it on Berner because Killery wants to run for POTUS in 2020 dontchaknow? Also Killery used it kill both Hickenloopers and Inslees campaigns because she is a white man hater because of what Bill did to her. This is was QAnon tells me. BTW I saw a big Suburban like SUV a couple of months ago with a big QAnon flag. People really flying their stupid.

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