They Always Had It In For Her

I hate writing these posts because inevitably some blinkered shithead will chime in and call me a Hillary fanboy, which I’m not (a simple search of this archives should sustain that assertion), having been driven to the point of near insanity by her 2007-2008 shenanigans, it’s just in 2016 I felt she was the best choice for Democrats and a far better candidate than Trump. I think I have been proven correct on that belief, too. Regardless, it is simply not my style to shy away when obvious bullshit is occurring and I believe in a basic principle of fairness.

Having said all that, I find it simply astounding that Bernie having a heart procedure is not getting more press. Mistermix mentioning it was the first I had heard of it. There was relatively nothing even on twitter.

Contrast that with Clinton, who spent the entire 2016 election cycle dealing with headlines and frontal assaults over MADEUP health allegations. It was so bad that when she had fucking pneumonia but tried to show up to a 9/11 ceremony anyway, we got days of coverage about how her health was a real concern.

They always had it in for her and she was never going to get a fair shake. The 40 year campaign by Republicans to smear her was embraced by the trotskyite left and the Russian front at the Young Turks and elsewhere, and amplified by our “liberal” media. And that’s just the facts.






239 replies
  1. 1
    Rick Taylor says:

    Yup.

  2. 2
    hells littlest angel says:

    Contrast that with Clinton, who spent the entire 2016 election cycle dealing with headlines and frontal assaults over MADEUP health allegations.

    While running against a garbage-gobbling whale who released a ludicrously spurious “health assessment.”

  3. 3
    ruemara says:

    Basically.

  4. 4
    glory b says:

    Amen, John. I grit my teeth every time I hear someone say she was so “unlikeable.” She had a 70% approval rating when she left the State Dept. The Repubs turned on her full bore, the lefties hit her as hard as they did, and she still won the popular vote.

  5. 5
    Doug R says:

    I wish Bernie a long and healthy retirement.

  6. 6
    zzyzx says:

    I think it’s simply that no one believed that Sanders would ever be the front runner. The game was always to pretend that they liked him and then – if needed – switch positions at the last second. Seeing how they’re working to try to make a long term Senator who never made anything off of that role into the poster child for corruption, they would easily make Sanders out into Public Enemy #1 if he were ever in danger of winning and no one on the right would remember when they used him at the example of why Clinton was bad.

    As long as it splits the left, they don’t care about anything else.

  7. 7
    jl says:

    If Sanders makes a comeback and is viewed as top contender, it will get a lot of attention. If he is the nominee (won’t happen), it will be a big campaign issue, and a favorite Trumpster and GOP attack theme. They’ll circulate rumors that Sanders had a triple super duper heart transplant, or Bernie is hidden away in intensive care and there is Bernie body double making the appearances for him. Heck, maybe Wohl will come out with a fraudulent announcement that Bernie was having an affair with a smoking hot 20 year old and that gave him a heart attack.

    There as a link, I think on this blog from earlier today, to an article by an ER physician who says that the way it was handled medically suggest it was a minor heart attack, or unstable angina of the sort that is a lead up to a heart attack.

    Sanders is still recovering and hasn’t made an appearance. Even with his stalled campaign polls, he’ll get questions on it repeatedly when he is back on the trail.

    Edit: a commenter above has a good point. Trump won’t be able to resist waddling out and babbling about Sanders’ health constantly, breathless and puffed, and so incoherently that people suspect he’s advanced to next stage of dementia.

  8. 8
    JaySinWA says:

    Hear Hear.
    I suspect the press looks a Bernie as a side show and not the disrupter he is. And Clintons were always the outsiders desecrating the Village.

  9. 9
    JGabriel says:

    @jl:

    If Sanders makes a comeback and is viewed as top contender, it will get a lot of attention. If he is the nominee (won’t happen), it will be a big campaign issue, and a favorite Trumpster and GOP attack theme.

    Exactly the same theme I was about to comment on. Thanks for saving me the trouble.

    That said, John’s right: They always had it in for her.

  10. 10
    aj says:

    FTFNYT

    Anyone else follow Jay Rosen’s work? I like his analyses of the press.

    Also just want to say again how much this blog helps me stay sane during all this freaking carnage.

    Ty all for that.

  11. 11
    joel hanes says:

    not getting more press

    The announcer at a horse race mostly talks about the leading horses.
    Our press lives the horse race metaphor.

  12. 12
    Ohio Mom says:

    There also seems to be more good wishes for Bernie on tne internet and in the media — lots of Get Well Soon’s — than I remember hearing for Hillary.

    Some of this is plain old misogyny not specific to Hillary. Though I don’t know how you tease out which is which.

  13. 13
    jl says:

    @JGabriel: Would be interesting to get a timeline of bogus health smears against HRC. IIRC they weren’t fabricated and disseminated until she would definitely be the nominee, or was campaigning in the general, with a healthy polling lead. Would be interesting to see.

  14. 14
    MattF says:

    Kevin Drum isn’t exactly mainstream— but he says flatly that the Sanders campaign is over. And yeah, the breathless RW coverage of Clinton’s supposed multiple ailments was very strange.

  15. 15
    BobbyK says:

    Hillary . collapsed in public in 2016

    I voted for her even though I voted for Senator Sanders in the primary because it was obvious trump was manifestly unfit.

  16. 16
    Zelma says:

    This isn’t exactly related to John’s post, but George Conway has a devastating takedown of Trump at Atlantic. It has to be one of the most complete discussions of his unfitness for office, mental illness, and “high crimes and misdemeanors” that I have ever seen.

  17. 17
    jl says:

    @BobbyK: Good point. Visuals like that are important for making something a big issue. People noted that Sanders looked tired, and obviously hoarse in the most recent debate, but that is nothing in comparison.

  18. 18
    karensky says:

    True Dat!

  19. 19
    ET says:

    I was thinking the very same thing when I saw the news about the procedure. It is so obvious as to be painful. The media fell for it and abetted then and won’t have a clue now how that looks. They will just glide on by oblivious.

  20. 20
    Barbara says:

    It was on the front page of the NYT this morning. I have read about it in Slate and WaPo as well. I suspect that when/if he comes back to campaign it will become a focus, but, basically, they don’t want to get out ahead of themselves while he is still recuperating.

  21. 21
    The Dangerman says:

    The 40 year campaign by Republicans to smear her…

    …was eminently successful. That campaign begat Trump, Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, etc.

    Not saying it was right; it was full on fucked. In some ways, we only got Obama as “they” didn’t have time to destroy him. Not that “they” didn’t try. Of course, didn’t start with Hillary (see Kerry, John).

  22. 22
    MattF says:

    @Zelma: An interesting article. Conway makes a deep dive into the question of a president’s legal duties. Trump comes up very short indeed.

  23. 23
    delk says:

    Sander’s campaign say that he will take part in the October 15 debate.

  24. 24
  25. 25
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Bernie would have won died.

  26. 26
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Zelma:
    Alas, everything past the intro is behind a paywall.

  27. 27
    PJ says:

    @Zelma: Somebody posted on Twitter that we should be wary of Conway, who is a Never Trumper but still a diehard Republican, and his pushing for Trump to be seen as mentally ill, because it’s leading up to an argument that he is not competent to testify at his trial in the Senate or in criminal proceedings after leaving office. Which would help to get some highly placed Republicans off the hook.

  28. 28
    MattF says:

    @Amir Khalid: I think US readers get a few free articles.

  29. 29
    Elizabelle says:

    @Bobby Thomson: *snicker* Well done.

  30. 30
    The Dangerman says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Al Gore says hi!

    True, how could I forget…

    ..but Gore, as I recall, also ran a shitty campaign. And still won!

  31. 31
    PJ says:

    @Barbara: His campaign has stated that he will be at the debate on October 15. That may be wishful thinking but commenters here have said that getting stents installed is not a big deal (I have no idea myself.)

  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    1. I underestimated the misogyny in 2016.
    2. Hillary was right about everything. And, I do mean everything.
    3. The facts of #2, is what makes the MSM so mad. That every damn day, a Hillary receipt is being pulled on these clowns that did professional malpractice in 2016, is what angers them, and why, any Hillary citing just gets them up in arms.
    4. Nobody’s forgotten that they told Hillary to GO KNIT…while not having shyt to say to McCain and the likes of Willard Romney. See comment #1 about what THAT’s about.

  33. 33
    Mart says:

    @glory b:

    She had a 70% approval rating when she left the State Dept. The Repubs turned on her full bore,

    Asshole Tom Cotton responding to the asshat Hannity question as to why, after seven Benghazi investgations, they have not got the goods on Clinton? Cotton responded by saying we trashed her favorability ratings. Mission accomplished.

  34. 34
    Martin says:

    Of course they did.

    Unrelated, when do we get to see Warren’s marine beefcake?

  35. 35
    HeleninEire says:

    @BobbyK: Of course she did. Because women just keep on going until they fall down. Women have real work to do. As opposed to men who whine and bitch when they start to sniffle.

    Shut up troll who I have never seen here before.

  36. 36
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    I can’t imagine that Sanders’ health issues are going to do anything to increase his support. His campaign is effectively over. That won’t stop him from continuing to hoover up every $18 donation he can from his diehard supporters. But he’s toast.

    Liz Warren is going to be the Democratic nominee and she’s gong to be a very good candidate.

  37. 37

    @Martin: The first thing about Warren that makes me approve of her. Way to go and get rid of the boring teacher image.//snark

  38. 38
    geg6 says:

    Right on, Cole. Right on.

  39. 39

    Is it just me or is T looking old and washed out, like a boozed up American version of Boris Yeltsin.

  40. 40
    Tom Q says:

    My feeling has long been that, when Bill Clinton became the first presidential candidate to defy the press and not drop out when they decreed he had to — i.e., at Gennifer Flowers — it initiated a long-running vendetta against anything Clinton. (Prior to that, every candidate who’d been media-frenzied — George Romney, Gary Hart — had meekly left the field.) This animus fed the impeachment fury (the “liberal media” pushed that for a year, despite steady polling that labelled it spectacularly unpopular), the war on Gore (on the premise “if Clinton’s VP succeeds him, he’ll have beaten us forever”), and the horrendous coverage of Hillary. When people in the press said Hillary brought baggage into the campaign, they were really talking about themselves.

    I DO believe that most members of the press in 2016 operated on the assumption that Hillary was going to win regardless, so they were free to whack her about — indulge their anti-Clinton jones — without fatal consequences. This utterly mistaken assumption is what got us to where we are today.

  41. 41
    the Conster says:

    I’m still gobsmacked at how little Sanders and his wife were and are still vetted. SHE was the one under an active FBI investigation all through primary season. All of their sketchy finances, the media buying shell company set up by Friends of Jane that millions disappeared into, his failure to release his tax returns, and when he finally did, how little scrutiny they got. His avoiding final filings with the FEC, then buying a 3rd house in cash was never questioned. He’s in the Mueller Report as being boosted by Putin, and where is the clamor for his health records? Everything about Sanders, Tad Devine’s connection to Manafort and Kilimnik and his role as chaos agent has been just plain old overlooked, especially now that we know Ukraine has been the epicenter of the election interference story. It’s really remarkable how the other candidates haven’t asked him flat out to explain all his shadiness.

  42. 42
    PJ says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Yeltsin was the boozed up version of Yeltsin. Trump doesn’t drink (though I’m sure he hoovered up a lot of coke in his life), but I’d bet a lifetime of McDonald’s and no exercise is taking it’s natural toll.

  43. 43
    Kay (not the front-pager) says:

    @ET:

    The media fell for it

    The media didn’t just fall for it and abet it, they developed and promulgated much of the worst hatred and malice. They not only both-sides’d it, they one-side demonized her. Their hatred was deep and visceral. I hoped never to see its like again, but every time Hillary pokes her head aboveground the dudebros (and dudebroettes) of the press are back at it.

    We’ve seen less of the explicit sexism that was so obvious in ’16, but there still are comments relating to likableness, shrill voice, scold, schoolmarm, too prepared, too many plans, not nice to everyone, etc. They’ve learned nothing.

  44. 44
    jl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: If the witness shows (doubtful) will be interesting to here the fantastic tale. Hope the combat decorated U.S. former Marine and bodybuilder takes questions. That would be interesting.

    But even money he won’t show and they’ll say he’s afraid of being re-seduced by the corrupting sexy wiles of Warren’s Accountable Capitalism Act. He’ll break down sobbing and Wohl will say ‘see that is what socialism does to you.:

    Should be fun.

  45. 45

    @PJ: He lies about everything, why should we trust him on this?

  46. 46
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @MattF: And that’s ALL he says:

    Regardless of what he does officially, I assume this means his campaign is over.

    Not even “I have sources who wish to remain anonymous that tell me.” It’s just Drum’s not-even-scientific wild-ass guess.

    It is well known that to ASSUME is to make an ASS out of U and ME.Don’t be made an ass, folks.

  47. 47
    NotMax says:

    Wilmer’s situation was receiving saturation coverage on the airwaves when I tuned in. Twitter is a cesspool of people shouting “Squirrel!”

  48. 48
    JPL says:

    CUZ Sanders isn’t and wasn’t a threat. Media moguls wanted their tax cuts..

  49. 49
    Archon says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    People thought an overweight 70 year old conman should be President so all bets are off on what people think is disqualifying for President.

  50. 50
    JPL says:

    So I guess Pence said the president has a right to investigate Biden to see if he profited from his position. What about Jared, etal.

  51. 51
    SFAW says:

    Not a doctor, don’t play one on TV/Intertubez, but I don’t think getting stented is really “surgery” the way most persons conceive of it. At least, when I got stented, they only needed an access point (in my case, the wrist) and the stent was snaked through my vascular system from there.

    That said: one hopes he’ll take this as a sign from above, and withdraw. Of course, I also hope that Shitgibbon’s stop’s being a complete fucking monster/asshole for ONE DAY.

  52. 52

    @jl: I am imagining someone that looks like the cover of a Mills and Boon or Silhouette romance.

  53. 53
    PJ says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Having been around a lot of drunks, he doesn’t strike me as one. I can’t say why exactly, but there is always a stiffness to him.

  54. 54
    Nicole says:

    I first started to suspect the media was not, perhaps, reporting in good faith, as a young barely 20-something when Hillary spoke at the UN (her “women’s rights are human rights” speech) and the media was all about whether that was appropriate for her to do, and had she fucked up her husband’s diplomatic relations with China and blah blah blah and not one news source I heard or read discussed WHAT SHE SAID. And, being a woman who would like to have full human rights, that pissed me off. And I’ve spent the years since then assuming nothing the press does regarding Hillary Rodham Clinton is in good faith.

    And honestly, the flattering coverage she’s getting now, on her book tour with Chelsea, is making me fucking mad, too, because it’s reminding me the public loves her as long as she’s not seeking a promotion. Fucking misogyny.

    That said, I hope she and Chelsea are having lots of fun on their tour and she continues to live her best life, because she’s given years of service to a nation that kept throwing shit at her and she deserves lots of good things.

  55. 55
    Fred Fnord says:

    You have to understand that part of the reason is that nobody thinks that Bernie has even a small chance at the nomination. They think that he’ll come in second, or maybe third, and that that’s it.

    I mean, I pretty much agree with that assessment. I think he has less chance than Buttigieg. So honestly it doesn’t much matter to me that he had a heart attack, except that I hope he gets better.

  56. 56
    BobbyK says:

    @HeleninEire: WOW, that’s some nastiness there. She collapsed, what can I say. I guess you missed the part where I said I voted for her.

  57. 57
    jl says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Probably Warren campaign is hoping for at least a good pic of a real handsome hunk pumping some serious iron in the gym, if the actor and/or fraud witness doesn’t show up. If the doofus relates a ‘meet cute’ story from the gym, and flexes, then say hi to president Warren!

    Edit: oooohhh. how ’bout a selfie with Warren. Free media gold.

  58. 58
    James Powell says:

    @The Dangerman:

    Of course, didn’t start with Hillary (see Kerry, John).

    See also Al Gore.

  59. 59
    NotMax says:

    @jl

    “Our assignations all took place in the basement of a pizza parlor.”

    //

  60. 60
    Mandalay says:

    @BobbyK:

    WOW, that’s some nastiness there.

    Pfffft. Toughen up cup cake.

  61. 61
    Betty Cracker says:

    Truth.

  62. 62
    Kent says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    @Zelma:
    Alas, everything past the intro is behind a paywall.

    If you are using Chrome, right-click and open in an incognito window

  63. 63
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @JaySinWA: Didn’t some woman DC columnist write some weird, grotesque screed about how Clinton’s, esp Bill, just didn’t ‘belong’ in the DC world of politics and influence? He would now and then wear blue Jean’s, fer c—sake!

  64. 64
    HeleninEire says:

    @BobbyK: I saw that. You also said you voted for Bernie in the primary. Stop trying to pretend you’re smart or informed.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    @Zelma:

    Ramping up the con that he and the Mrs. have going.

    They are not going to be left out. They will be employable post-Dolt45.

    THAT is what all of their shenanigans has been about

  66. 66
    SFAW says:

    @Martin:

    Unrelated, when do we get to see Warren’s Marine beefcake?

    It’s ALL related, and: I was wondering whether we can get a livestream of Wohl’s presser. I am keen to hear how SPW is now the latest History’s Greatest Monster.

  67. 67

    On twitter, someone retweeted Jane Sanders to the effect that Wilmer would be home by the end of the weekend. When I had a heart attack and two stents inserted, they planned to send me home the next day, but kept me one day extra because I had chest pain in the night. The end of the weekend is a long time away.

  68. 68
    Hoodie says:

    @PJ: I sometimes do wonder if Trump is laying it on even thicker now because he really doesn’t want to be president anymore as it’s too much work, exposes him to too much daily criticism, and the economy – the only thing propping him up – is starting to go south. It’s not uncommon for narcissists to skip town when responsibility looms. If he’s forced out, he can complain that it’s all a big conspiracy, that the country was in great shape when he left and has subsequently gone in the shitter because he’s no longer in charge. I’m all for removing him, and if it takes a diagnosis of mental illness to get the GOP to go along, so be it. After all, he probably is mentally ill and it’s too big a risk to have someone like that in office. But all of us should realize that he may still be a royal pain in the ass due to the affection he commands from most of their base, which is also somewhat mentally ill.

  69. 69
    SFAW says:

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    Didn’t some woman DC columnist write some weird, grotesque screed about how Clinton’s, esp Bill, just didn’t ‘belong’ in the DC world of politics and influence?

    Sally Quinn, maybe? I vaguely remember something about that, but the name escapes me.

  70. 70
    SFAW says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Did she specify which weekend?

  71. 71
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    30 years in Washington, doing nothing, really took a toll on Wilmer

  72. 72
    NotMax says:

    @SFAW

    That Wohl’s smog and phony show will receive any coverage at all is itself a symptom of the sickness infesting the media.

  73. 73
    gene108 says:

    @Mart:

    Benghazi was during Obama’s first term. He debated with Mitt Romney about it. The one thing that made it stand out from all the other consulate attacks we had was an ambassador died. The first ambassador to die like that in decades.

    A competent media would’ve turned on Republicans, stating this was an issue Mitt and Obama debated about. The questions have been answered. This is 2016. No need to bring up the last election. And stopped giving any oxygen to the Republicans on this.

  74. 74
    dmsilev says:

    @SFAW: Yes, that was Quinn. I think it was something she said to David Broder, not a column of her own.

  75. 75
    HeleninEire says:

    @Mandalay: You are making me LOL. Thank you.

  76. 76
    JoyceH says:

    @SFAW:

    Not a doctor, don’t play one on TV/Intertubez, but I don’t think getting stented is really “surgery” the way most persons conceive of it. At least, when I got stented, they only needed an access point (in my case, the wrist) and the stent was snaked through my vascular system from there.

    Same here, though in my case, it was through the femoral artery in the thigh. The gallbladder removal was worse, and even that was through little tiny incisions.

  77. 77
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Archon: I read Drum’s “assumption” as a belief that the heart problems would not allow BS to withstand the rigors of a long, grueling primary campaign. YMMV.

  78. 78
    BobbyK says:

    @HeleninEire: But I am smart and informed, you are one nasty piece of work. Not my fault she collapsed.

  79. 79
    Mandalay says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:

    His campaign is effectively over.

    Yep, and it doesn’t matter whether he appears in the next debate or not. While his fundraising is going great, his poll numbers have been in gradual decline anyway. Suspending his campaign isn’t the final nail in his campaign’s coffin, but it is surely one of them.

  80. 80
    BobbyK says:

    @Mandalay: Pfft, it wasn’t?

  81. 81
    jl says:

    @JoyceH: Really depends on what was Sanders’ condition and why the rush to put in the stent. If article by ER physician is correct, then the rush indicates an actual or an approaching heart attack. Then seems that Sanders will have a very noticeable hiatus to his campaign, and will have to significantly lower intensity.

    OTOH, maybe Sanders and docs were very cautious because of campaign, and did it right away, when in other circumstances would have been more leisurely about it.

    We just don’t know right now.

  82. 82
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @The Dangerman: GOP started smearing Bill when he was still in Arkansas
    . See Conason and Lyons book The Campaign against the President. (Not sure of title)

    There was a state columnist. Paul Greenfield I think, who loathed Bill and wrote column after column tearing him down. His columns ran in the Tulsa paper and formed my dad’s negative opinion if Bill.

    GOP at end of 80s did a massive oppo research on every possible dem candidate for the 92 election.

    My recollection is that the nasty attacks were 1st directed against Hillary. She absolutely terrified the GOP male leaders. She was intelligent, attractive, had a mind of her own. And worst of all had a profession at which she worked daily despite ‘having a husband and child and home to take care of’!!

    She sent absolutely all the wrong messages to young girls growing up. To repeat plaints of male commentators at the time of the Seneca Falls meeting, ‘who was going to fix dinner if girls paid attention to Hillary?’

    She symbolized the end of their world.

  83. 83
    UncleEbeneezer says:

    What’s so frustrating is how many people on the Left who will spend all day telling you about how the DNC and MSM have practiced long-term misinformation/smear campaigns against Nader/Dean/Bernie etc., will completely ignore the much bigger campaigns against Hillary that have been well documented for 40 goddamn years. These people irritate the fuck out of me. They are truly, no better than your FoxNews-addled relatives…

  84. 84
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @HeleninEire:

    Shut up troll who I have never seen here before.

    Strong, strong evidence that she was in fact perfectly healthy at the time, is that she has been in rude, rude health ever since the election. I mean, if she were in such a parlous state back in 2016, you’d have expected her to be visibly debilitated for a good while after, and that just didn’t happen.

    Anybody who had even the slightest reservations about her health BACK THEN, should be “updating their priors” about how they judge (esp. female) candidates’ health, based on this new data.

  85. 85
    Amir Khalid says:

    @SFAW:
    The cardiologist who inserted my two stents called it major surgery. (Went in through the femoral artery. They shaved my thigh in pre-op, and then my wedding tackle for some reason.) I myself have no opinion on its majorness/minorness.

  86. 86
    Betsy says:

    Off-topic, but highly interesting: North Carolina’s rural Republicans (that’s basically all the Republicans) are starting to crack when it comes to Medicaid expansion. As in, county boards are begging the R leadership in the legislature to quit holding out on their own voters.

    http://www.northcarolinahealth.....-expansion

    We’ve had too many rural hospitals close. It’s killing the counties and small towns. Working people are dying. Both the mountains and the coast are major retirement economies but who will retire to a rural place with no hospital? Republican ideology is costing rural NC dearly, and North Carolinians know it.

  87. 87
    Mandalay says:

    @BobbyK: Her comment was fine. If you were truly offended by it then you need to get a much thicker skin or find another web site.

  88. 88
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @jl:

    then the rush indicates an actual or an approaching heart attack

    Maybe the rush represents the fact that it was Bernie Sanders and not John Q. Public. You don’t want to be the last signature on the chart before he codes, so you do what is perceived as “safe.” If it was John Q. Public, maybe you wait and see, and order another test in 4 hours.

    Ever hear of “defensive medicine”?

  89. 89
    Cacti says:

    Former federal prosecutor Joyce Alene on today’s Trump press conference:

    Trump just committed a felony violation of law by soliciting something of value in connection with a US election from a foreign gov’t on national TV. 52 U.S. Code § 30121.

  90. 90
    randy khan says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Some of the niceness to Sanders is to avoid attacks from Bernistas for not being sufficiently respectful.

  91. 91
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: “Major surgery” is when it’s on you. “Minor surgery” is on someone else.

  92. 92
    Hoodie says:

    @J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford: I think it’s a reasonable assumption that Bernie’s will be calling it quits. Yeah, getting a stent is not like having a triple bypass, but it’s also not like getting a cyst removed. My sister had a couple put in a two years ago after she had a very mild cardiac episode. She says that, while she felt ok after the stents were installed, it shook her and it’s taken a while to get her energy levels back to anywhere near normal, and she’s in her mid 60’s. She went back to work, but only part time. Sure, I can see someone being able to go back to a normal job after that, but doing something grueling like a presidential campaign is hard to imagine.

  93. 93
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: That’s what I tried to say at the end of the tweet.

  94. 94
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Doug R: Polling for Senator Sanders shows him running third at best. I don’t see him surviving all the way to the end the way he did in 2016. There are too many better candidates.

  95. 95
    Turgidson says:

    @James Powell:

    Michael Dukakis and Willie Horton say hi too.

  96. 96
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @BobbyK: You must be new here.

  97. 97
    jl says:

    Breaking! Sirens! Must cite jl! (not this guy Will Sommer who is covering it)
    From the description, Warren campaign cannot be pleased. Surely hope for something better than farce. Surely didn’t want the beefcake to laugh about it. That could hurt the campaign.

    @willsommer
    Wohl and Burkman are trying to look really serious but their fake Warren accuser keeps cracking up as he reads his statement. They don’t look thrilled.
    11:52 AM – 3 Oct 2019
    https://twitter.com/willsommer/status/1179831529293385728

    Edit: emphasis added. Edit2: typical, these doofuses couldn’t be bothered or were incompetent to hire a good actor. Maybe they just got a male stripper to come out and do gig for an hour. If he strips that would help Warren, probably.

  98. 98
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @jl: You expect me to read *two* paragraphs?

  99. 99
    gvg says:

    I mostly just agree, but I want to point out that we are currently in a much more interesting news cycle, and maybe Sanders heart just can’t compete with the other news right now. Reporters seem to sense blood in the water over Trump. Sanders health is relatively boring. I can’t recall what the competing news was when Hillary’s health was being smeared, but I bet it wasn’t this exciting to our reporters. Luck is always an unfair factor in media coverage.

  100. 100
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Tom Q:

    My feeling has long been that, when Bill Clinton became the first presidential candidate to defy the press and not drop out when they decreed he had to — i.e., at Gennifer Flowers — it initiated a long-running vendetta against anything Clinton.

    Three thoughts:
    (1) I doubt this, b/c this standard has been violated by nearly all the GrOPer leaders of the time, and since. [#NotAllGrOPers !!!!]
    (2) OTOH, Dems -are- held to a different standard, so maybe you’re right

    BUT (3) I remember reading sometime in the last 20yr about how before he ran for Prez, when he was a lowly Governor, some Republican operatives visited him and tried to blackmail him into switching parties: they explained that if he ran as a Dem, they’d destroy him using his personal life.

  101. 101
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    The surgery or wedding tackle?

  102. 102
    gwangung says:

    @Hoodie: I dunno about calling it quits, but it really SHOULD be an issue when he returns to campaigning (and he WILL return). This isn’t a policy thing….it’s something to consider.

  103. 103
    JoyceH says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    The cardiologist who inserted my two stents called it major surgery. (Went in through the femoral artery. They shaved my thigh in pre-op, and then my wedding tackle for some reason.) I myself have no opinion on its majorness/minorness.

    And I got the exact same thing, and my guys were sorta nonchalant about it! Maybe it just depends on the personalities of the cardiologists.

    But on the Hillary thing, one thing that struck me during the 2016 campaign is how the Republicans really really wanted to get their hands on Hillary’s e-mails, like they would find her insane master plan for world domination there. At first I thought they were just throwing up smoke and noise, hoping to make them seem sinister – but no, they had operatives going here and going there, trying to get their hands on the actual e-mails. They were SURE it would be the end of her!

    And this brings me back to my observations on the devolution of the Republican Party. Back in the 80s and 90s, Newt and Ailes and that crowd invented Fox and the Wingnut Wurlitzer of radio talk as a propaganda outfit for the groundlings. They didn’t believe what they were spewing (Falwell Senior even admitted he didn’t believe the crap in those Clinton Chronicles he hawked on his ‘religion’ show!), but it was propaganda for the base. But then in the 00s and 10s, the audience for that dreck started running for office. So we now have a significant percentage of GOP officeholders who really BELIEVE this stuff.

    Trump is one who believes it, and Giuliani, and danged if it doesn’t look like Barr and Pompeo believe it too.

  104. 104
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    Agree with John and all the takes on this in so may ways, but really: no matter who we had up against him, all the evidence says Trump would have won anyway.

    Anyone who has even remotely paid attention up to now knows that THEY FUCKING CHEATED AND BROKE THE LAW AND USED FOREIGN INTERFERENCE TO FLIP THE DAMN ELECTION. He’s trying to do it again, in real time, with Putin laughing onstage at how fricking easy it’s gonna be to get away with it again. He thinks…

    Personally, I really believe Trump is toast. What happens after he’s out I can’t say, but just because this shit worked the last time doesn’t mean the American people aren’t on to his little criminal enterprise this time. The polls are actually reflecting that.

    Our side made it’s mistakes last time around, and the way they had it in for Clinton was so obvious. It’ played right into Putin’s hands and is what gave him so much advantage in his scheme. So It’s fine if we go back and re-hash that fucking unfair shit all we want so we do’t let it happen again, but it the truth is, Trump was illegitimately elected to office and that was obviously gonna happen, no matter who else ran against him.

    Because it was truly the political equivalent of 9-11: we never saw it coming, Never dreamed it could happen. There was a lot of soul-searching and fact finding and changes made after that day, mostly for the good. Fact is, because of it we haven’t had another massive terrorist strike on US soil by a foreign terrorist organization again since 9-11.

    And we don’t have to let the events of the 2016 election happen ever again.Because now we know.

  105. 105
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Hoodie:
    If Sanders is persuaded to withdraw for his health, great shall be the lamentations of the Wilmeristas, and copious shall flow their tears, not least in the land of The Young Turks.

  106. 106
    Doc Sardonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: Only major due to the location of the punctures. With the femoral artery location there is the possibility of exsanguination upon getting back in bed after taking a piss.

  107. 107
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Oh yeah,,,,

  108. 108
    SFAW says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    Interesting. I was sedated, but not knocked out, during mine. I was able to watch various things on a monitor screen as the doctor was working. Being married to a post-surg nurse for many years, I guess I have a different view of things from most persons (in the sense of major vs minor surgery).

    I am glad I didn’t need to have mine done via the femoral, of course. Made recovery a lot less troublesome.

  109. 109
    jl says:

    link to Will Sommer’s twitter account of Wohl Burkman presser on the Warren scandal. It’s getting better.
    At least the guy took off his shirt. Warren campaign will get something out this after all.

    https://twitter.com/willsommer

  110. 110
    rp says:

    @jl: Warren’s supposed boyfriend has a triple X (Vin Diesel movie) tattoo!!! This show has truly jumped the shark. Very lazy writing at this point.

  111. 111
    JoyceH says:

    @SFAW:

    I was sedated, but not knocked out, during mine. I was able to watch various things on a monitor screen as the doctor was working.

    I was sedated as well, but snoozed right off. The sedation person introduced himself as “I’m so and so and I’ll be your bartender today.”

  112. 112
    Mike in NC says:

    Bernie Sanders is a sick old man who may not live until 2020. He needs to just go away.

  113. 113
    OGLiberal says:

    @SFAW: @Ladyraxterinok: Read it and vomit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/quinn110298.htm

    “He came in here and he trashed the place,” says Washington Post columnist David Broder, “and it’s not his place.”

    (Quinn was Ben Bradlee’s wife)

  114. 114
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @SFAW:

    Sally Quinn, maybe?

    The harlot who broke up Ben Bradlee’s marriage of 21 years? Yeah, she had some fuckin’ nerve to talk about Hillary and Bill as arrivistes.

  115. 115

    @Hoodie: My experience was much like your sister’s. I was tired afterwards. My heart’s ejection fraction (ie the amount of blood it expels) was well below normal. It took four months for it to return, and I did 12 weeks of cardiac rehab exercise.

    ETA: I was on BJ the afternoon it happened though. Priorities.

  116. 116
    jl says:

    @rp: It’s hilarious. The guy has a scar that was supposed to be from kinky bondage sex with Warren. Then somebody put up a social media pic of the guy showing it and saying he got it trying to take down a swing set.

    I thought this thing would guarantee a Warren presidency, but it’s just too hilarious and sad.

  117. 117
    Amir Khalid says:

    @SFAW:
    I was offered a choice between unconsciousness and sedation. I took the latter. I’m kind of glad I did, because the process was kind of interesting.

  118. 118
    artem1s says:

    because inevitably some blinkered shithead will chime in and call me a Hillary fanboy, which I’m not

    no shame in being called a Hillary fanboy. I decided during the election I was tired of having to bracket my opinion of the most qualified person who has ever run for president. No more apologies. The GOP has been perfecting their ability to steal the WH for 30+ years. 2016 was a perfect storm of gerrymandering, voter suppression, propaganda, misinformation, foreign interference, the MSM and the Very Serious People concern trolling us to death. Karl Rove’s seeds worked perfectly even more so than 2000. And she still was popular enough to get more votes than any white man who has run for the office. Yes, she was robbed. And she will still live her life well surrounded by her family that are smart, accomplished people who will spend their lives doing their damnedest to honor her legacy. She will accomplish more in these four years than the entire shit hole administration will accomplish in their entire lives. Shining the light on the alt-right and deplorables will change forever the way we view the future of the nation. The GOP has had it in for her for 30 years and their obsession with smearing her at all costs may have destroyed their party. Not the way I wanted it to happen, but good enough.

  119. 119
    Amir Khalid says:

    @jl:
    I more or less expected the Warren boyfriend reveal would be underwhelming.

  120. 120
    Elizabelle says:

    @Betsy: Thank you for that info. Good to hear.

  121. 121
    jl says:

    Should have a front page poster do something on to the Wohl Burkman stunt. Excellent comedy. Wonder if they committed any crimes this time.
    Seems like prime Cracker material to me. Or Silverman, since their might be a Floriduh man theme, or national security angle.

  122. 122
    Leto says:

    @Martin: @SFAW: Here you go: https://twitter.com/robertcaruso/status/1179820555010265089?s=20

    This guy did a live coverage of the “press report”. It’s… hilarious.

  123. 123
    guachi says:

    @Mandalay: I’ve been following polls for 5 months now. Taking a simple average of whatever the last 10 polls are and Sanders hasn’t budged much at all. He’s still stuck at about 16% and he wobbles from 15 to 17%. Nothing he does seems to have any effect on his poll numbers.

    He hasn’t been dropping, but he hasn’t been gaining and now he’s firmly behind Warren. He’s effectively a dead man walking.

    He has enough support to get delegates but he’s not going to be the nominee unless something drastic happens. And I don’t see him picking up much support as others drop out, either.

  124. 124
    Kent says:

    @Betsy:

    Off-topic, but highly interesting: North Carolina’s rural Republicans (that’s basically all the Republicans) are starting to crack when it comes to Medicaid expansion. As in, county boards are begging the R leadership in the legislature to quit holding out on their own voters.

    http://www.northcarolinahealth…..-expansion

    We’ve had too many rural hospitals close. It’s killing the counties and small towns. Working people are dying. Both the mountains and the coast are major retirement economies but who will retire to a rural place with no hospital? Republican ideology is costing rural NC dearly, and North Carolinians know it.

    Honestly, I used to care about this kind of thing a lot. Watched the same thing happen in Texas.

    Anymore? After Trump I just no longer have any fucks to give. This sort of thing was all 100% predictable and predicted 10 years ago. Fuck them They all made their choice. What percentage of rural NC voted for Trump. High 70s? Probably the high 80s if you just count the older white vote. I mean more power too them if they actually do it. I just don’t care about the fight for rural white America anymore.

    Moved my family out of Texas to a state (Washington) where rational people actually run the government and haven’t looked back.

  125. 125
    Raven Onthill says:

    Sanders angioplasty got press, though not as much as Clinton’s pneumonia. I agree that the press had it in for Clinton. It becomes clear that despite all claims to the contrary, the management of CNN, the New York Times, and the Washington Post supports the Republicans and apparently will do so even as the President becomes disloyal and unhinged.

    An angioplasty is a relatively minor procedure, and Sanders is for his age quite healthy. He was up and tweeting about health care not long after.

  126. 126
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: When I was having a hip repaired they gave me a choice between unconsciousness and a spinal block. I knew just enough about orthopedic surgery to choose wisely.

  127. 127
    PJ says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Were it not for the whistleblower, though, Trump would still be trying to pull a repeat of 2016’s election interference, without anyone from the press caring (see the May 2019 NYT article by Ken Vogel which acknowledged Rudy and Trump trying to get Ukraine to dig up dirt on Biden, but cast it as a Biden corruption scandal.) I mean, he’s STILL trying to get foreign countries to assist him in this election, but at least now, the press is not buying the Republican talking points about it. Given Republicans and the current state of the press, though, I can see the GOP going for it again in 2024 without a peep from the media. It’s going to take a long time to break the reflexive mental habits engrained by 40 years of kowtowing to Republican propaganda.

  128. 128
    jl says:

    @Leto: Turns out Wohl and Burkman tried to do a health scandal on Biden earlier this year, that he had Parkinson’s. I guess that was so disgusting and poorly done in a non-hilarious way, no one wanted to cover it? Anyone hear about that one?

  129. 129
    Fair Economist says:

    The MSM is treating Sander’s illness lightly because they want to be “polite”. The troll media wants Sanders nominated, so they are saying almost nothing.

  130. 130
    Yarrow says:

    @HeleninEire:

    As opposed to men who whine and bitch when they start to sniffle.

    Obligatory: man cold.

  131. 131
    SFAW says:

    @Leto:

    Thanks.

    Down in the comments, someone posted SPW’s (proposed) new campaign slogan:

    “Elizabeth Warren: She’s Semper Fine”

  132. 132
    guachi says:

    That campaign slogan is perfect. She needs to get a Marine boy toy ASAP.

  133. 133
    Yarrow says:

    Today Show covered his heart issue on the show this morning. Talked about him being off the trail indefinitely or until further notice. Showed the video of him the day before where he was really tired.

    Heard a short bit of some show on NPR and they were also talking about it. Went into detail about his age, how old he’d be on inauguration day if he won. They talked about how people might start talking about his health as an issue and how it also brings up the issue of age. They wrapped it into a discussion of how voters say they want someone younger but Trump is not young and the leading contenders on the Dem side are also not young.

  134. 134
    Fair Economist says:

    @jl:

    If article by ER physician is correct, then the rush indicates an actual or an approaching heart attack.

    Actual vs. approaching makes a big difference. If it’s actual there will be a lot of followup medical care. It it’s approaching, once they are sure it won’t get here, he’ll probably feel better than he has in years.

  135. 135
    Yarrow says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Wasn’t he in Las Vegas for the surgery? If that’s correct it could be that he’s out of the hospital but not well enough to return to Vermont.

  136. 136
    SFAW says:

    @HeleninEire:

    You are making me LOL. Thank you.

    Well, that’s obviously because you’re a nasty ******** (Hint: rhymes with “orange”)

  137. 137
    joel hanes says:

    @artem1s:

    Well said. Thanks.

  138. 138
    trollhattan says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Exactly, plus I also buy the theory Sniffy McSaggypants snorts AdderaII.

  139. 139
    Leto says:

    @jl: Hadn’t heard about that, but isn’t Wohl the one who’s facing a felony charge in California? So many shitheels…

    @SFAW: Haha, I also like the other one I saw:

    I'm hoping it's true 'cause it's fun to imagine Liz Warren saying, "Thank you for your service," when they get out of bed.— James Koch (@jksjokeoftheday) October 3, 2019

  140. 140
    Martin says:

    @jl: We have GOT to learn what Warren’s safe word is. Surely Adam has some covert agents that can find this out for us.

  141. 141
    VeniceRiley says:

    @jl: @BrandyZardozny (NBC Reporter) did and I have retweeted. It’s a screenshot of his insta, lest Zuck be of a mind to take it down.

  142. 142
    SFAW says:

    @Leto:

    That one’s pretty good, too.

  143. 143
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    The cardiologist who inserted my two stents called it major surgery. (Went in through the femoral artery. They shaved my thigh in pre-op, and then my wedding tackle for some reason.) I myself have no opinion on its majorness/minorness.

    Ok, Cardiac ICU RN here needs to clarify for folks: Even with all it’s potential risks, Percutaneous Coronary Artery Revascularization procedures are NOT major surgery. Open Coronary Artery Bypass Graft or Aortic Valve replacement surgeries would be considered “major cardiac surgery”, because there’s a big difference between sticking a catheter in the femoral (or radial, as a lot of docs now do) artery and literally cracking open your chest, bypassing your blood to a pump, and cutting and pasting shit to your heart tissue. Trust me.

    Not to say that Bernie Sanders likely felt like shit and may even have a significant recovery period in store. Heart attacks (if that’s what he had)–even heart stress events short of heart attacks make people feel exhausted for weeks afterwards.

    I’m more interested in the type of cardiac event he had that prompted them taking him to the Cardiac Cath Lab so quickly, because in general we reserve such quick action for the more serious ones. If that’s the case, he has a much harder recovery in store than if it was a less damaging event.

    He clearly was feeling fatigue and maybe some discomfort–likely shortness of breath, nausea or just feeling drained–in a video the day before the event. I’m wondering if he had what we’d call a Non ST elevation MI, which in laymen’s terms is a slightly less serious type of “heart attack” than the most urgent one, an ST Elevation MI. Hospitals treating cardiac patients have what we call “Door to Balloon-Time” goals of 90 minutes or less with ST Elevation MI’s because they are the more damaging, more extensive blockages of blood flow to lithe heart and are more likely to lead to cardiogenic shock or arrest. “Time is Muscle” we like to say about STEMI’s.

    NSTEMI’s are often slower in the way they present, and usually the blockages are smaller or cover smaller areas of the heart, which often have good “collateral blood flow” coming from patent arteries, therefore causes slightly less damage to the cardiac muscle than an STEMI. I’ve had patients present with a NSTEMI and not had a doctor prioritize taking them to Cath Lab for several days while we medically support/treat to resolve their symptoms.

    And yes, the older you are the more likely time will take it’s toll on your arteries and lead to an MI, so we’re all right to ask legitimate questions about our Presidential candidates ages at the time they’ll assume office. But really, this shit could happen to anyone who has just the right combination of genetics, current health problems, and overall risk for Cardio Vascular Disease. I’ve cared for literally people of all ages who had both of these types of MI’s, as well as people who were somewhat asymptomatic and found to have stentable coronary blood vessels with what was just supposed to be a diagnostic angiogram. I recently took care of a 92 year-old man whois still running his own business full time, and who is a Senior Olympics Marathon champ, a lifelong vegetarian with no co-morbidities like hypertension or diabetes. Two stents, one to “The Widomaker”LAD artery. Sometimes I question if all we know about Cardiovascular Disease Prevention makes much difference at all.

    Anyway, I would not be surprised if Sanders takes several weeks off or really reduces his schedule for that time, and quite frankly, he should. That was a serious event, and he needs to put his health into perspective right now.

  144. 144
    SFAW says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I took the latter. I’m kind of glad I did, because the process was kind of interesting.

    Same with me.

  145. 145
    joel hanes says:

    @Kent:

    Once they got unified control of the Iowa state government, the Rs contracted out Medicaid benefit administration to a private firm so that profits could be made As Reagan Intended.

    Suddenly providers began experiencing long payment delays, missed payments. Timely notifications to Medicaid patients became unreliable. The problems were reported. Improvements were minor and temporary.

    But elderly Iowa Medicaid patients don’t seem to care: they still can’t bring themselves to vote for a Democrat, because of “economic anxiety”, which is spelled R-A-C-I-S-M.

  146. 146
    trollhattan says:

    @guachi:
    My fear is Wilmer hangs in through the DNC, a loooong 16 months hence, where he can try poisoning the well again. Do. Not. Want.

  147. 147
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:

    He’s not going to show because “he’s” a stock photo that Wohl and his idiot friend found online and concocted a fantasy about.

  148. 148
    Leto says:

    @Martin: SPW’s safe word is… Excessive Lobbying Tax…

  149. 149
    jl says:

    @Fair Economist: ” he’ll probably feel better than he has in years. ”

    Maybe after a bit, but link to ER doc piece someplace on this blog, says both require considerable rest and follow-up in the aftermath, if I understood it correctly.

  150. 150
    SFAW says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Thanks for all that info. I knew some of it, but finding out about the rest of it is really helpful.

  151. 151
    HeleninEire says:

    @SFAW: Can’t thank you all here. But thank you anyway. Thinking I’m headed back. Was the best. And then my Dad got old.

  152. 152
    Leto says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    then my wedding tackle for some reason

    The thigh was mandatory, the tackle was 1st year intern practice. :)

  153. 153
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: Hunk showed but cracked up trying to read the script. Insulting to Warren and her campaign disapointed.

  154. 154

    @Ella in New Mexico: Thank you for that information. I didn’t know all that!

  155. 155
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    It appears he actually did show up. Now, whether anything they claimed about him is true, that’s unknown.

  156. 156
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @SFAW: @Dorothy A. Winsor: You’re welcome! It’s my”You’re my wheelhouse now” moment, as I heard someone say the other day.

  157. 157
    trollhattan says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:
    Thank you for this. Hugely informative!

  158. 158
    joel hanes says:

    @Raven Onthill:

    It becomes clear that despite all claims to the contrary, the management of CNN, the New York Times, and the Washington Post supports the Republicans

    I subscribe to the WaPo. As nearly as I can tell, their news coverage is appropriately framed and presented.

    Granted, Fred Hiatt’s Opinion Page does run a rotating cast of six completely in-the-tank lying Republican shills (Olsen, Hewitt, Abernathy, Rogers, Thiesssen, Parker) plus never-Trumpers Gerson and George Fucking Will, but they also run Jennifer Rubin every day, who has been devastating on Trump, and Greg Sargent. And Alexandra Petri pokes Trump with needle sarcasm.
    Hiatt does need to go.

  159. 159
    trollhattan says:

    Was just reminded the first human heart transplant was fifty-two years ago. Wow!

  160. 160
    LuciaMia says:

    Im still chuckling over the “breaking news” that Elizabeth Warren supposedly had an affair with a 24 yr old Marine.

    Love how in the oh-so-earnest press release they felt the need to add that he is a ‘body-builder.’

  161. 161
    Kent says:

    @joel hanes: Yeah. I just don’t give a fuck anymore. My wife worked in a public clinic in Texas that had its finances basically ravaged due to the state’s decision not to expand medicaid. All my wife’s GOP doctor colleagues who’s pay and benefits were being cut as a result? They were fucking incapable of adding 2 + 2 together. At the same time they would complain endlessly about the undeserving medicaid patients who were always ‘scamming the system’ [i.e. visiting a public clinic while black]. If those sorts of highly educated and sophisticated folks can’t see past their tribal racism then fuck the whole lot of them.

  162. 162

    @Ladyraxterinok: “The Hunting of the President” is the title of the book.

  163. 163
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @jl: Who can forget the classic film : “Warren Whips Wall Street”

  164. 164
    Kent says:

    @LuciaMia:

    Im still chuckling over the “breaking news” that Elizabeth Warren supposedly had an affair with a 24 yr old Marine.

    I know. Shows how absolutely fucking incompetent they are. If they had any sophistication at all, it would have been an affair with a hairy legged 55 year old radical feminist bookstore and vegan chai latte coffeeshop owner who drives a subaru with a golden retriever in the back.

  165. 165
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Anyone who has even remotely paid attention up to now knows that THEY FUCKING CHEATED AND BROKE THE LAW AND USED FOREIGN INTERFERENCE TO FLIP THE DAMN ELECTION.

    Co-signed.

  166. 166
    Brachiator says:

    They always had it in for her and she was never going to get a fair shake.

    With all due respect, I don’t care. I voted for Hillary and would have voted for her four times over, but she is not running now. I don’t need to revisit her campaign. I care about the people running now and about the shit being flung at them.

    Also, Bernie Sanders may be getting a pass because he’s old and we are not supposed to say that old as dirt fucks should not be running for president.

  167. 167
    Cacti says:

    Pelosi issues Grade AAA troll response to Kevin McCarthy’s request to suspend impeachment inquiry:

    I received your letter this morning shortly after the world witnessed President Trump on national television asking yet another foreign power to interfere in the upcoming 2020 elections. We hope you and other Republicans share our commitment to following the facts, upholding the Constitution, protecting our national security, and defending the integrity of our elections at such a serious moment in our nation’s history.

  168. 168
    Zelma says:

    @rikyrah:

    Re the Conway article, I don’t presume to understand what goes on in that marriage or other folks’ motivations, but George’s article is pretty effective in laying out everything that is the matter with Trump and offering a legal argument about his impeachability. What sort of sets the article apart from other catalogues of T’s horridness is the constitutional argument. I’d say it’s a slap in the face to any so-called “Constitutional Conservative” who continues to support the idiot.

  169. 169
    Kent says:

    @Cacti: Honestly, Pelosi is just badass and she completely has Trump’s number. Every single time she and Trump have locked horns on anything she has won. Both on substance and in public perception. And she makes him even more crazy which is also a plus.

  170. 170
    trollhattan says:

    @Cacti:
    Heh, Nancy briefly trades SMASH gavel for a stiletto.

  171. 171
    rikyrah says:

    Happy Anniversary to one of my favorite couples :)

    ‘Thanks, babe, for 27 amazing years!’ Barack and Michelle Obama share touching anniversary messages on Twitter – as the former first lady says she’s ‘still feeling the magic’

    Former President Barack Obama, 58, and former first lady Michelle, 55, tied the knot on October 3, 1992
    Both wished the other a happy anniversary on Twitter and Instagram today
    Barack shared a photo of them looking at a sunset and quoted the Beatles
    Michelle said her husband promised a life full of adventure and ‘delivered,’ and now they’re embarking on their next chapter as empty nesters
    By CARLY STERN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

    PUBLISHED: 12:15 EDT, 3 October 2019 | UPDATED: 14:32 EDT, 3 October 2019

  172. 172
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jl:
    @SFAW:

    Hmm. Now I’m wondering if the trolls got trolled. 🤔

  173. 173
    Ruckus says:

    @JoyceH:
    My cardiac catheterization was thru the groin while awake and I had to lay flat and still for 6 hrs afterwards. Then I went home. I was told that a stent would require an overnight stay. This sounds like there is more to the story than we’ve been told.

  174. 174
    TomatoQueen says:

    @Kent: I rather suspect that there are vote-suppressed persons of color caught up in this problem, in spite of NYT interviewers going to the same diners all the time. Vote-suppression and other tactics were covered well by some outlets last time around.

  175. 175
    Bex says:

    @artem1s: Amen x 1000.

  176. 176
    LivinginExile says:

    lieberman’s son is running for Senate in Georgia. Politico. Good, bad, indifferent?

  177. 177
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @PJ:

    I can see the GOP going for it again in 2024 without a peep from the media.

    Abso-fricking-lutely.

    One of the reasons it’s not just who we elect President, it’s also how hard we push Democrats in Congress to get permanent legal reforms in place that can’t be wiped away by a single election or “Executive Discretion”.

  178. 178
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @trollhattan: My pleasure!

  179. 179
    Elizabelle says:

    @Cacti: Nancy SMASH! Well done.

  180. 180
    Brachiator says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Ok, Cardiac ICU RN here needs to clarify for folks: Even with all it’s potential risks, Percutaneous Coronary Artery Revascularization procedures are NOT major surgery.

    Wow. Thanks for all the information.

    So, to be clear, is MI myocardial infarction?

    Years ago, I got checked out by a cardiologist because of, thankfully, a false alarm. While waiting in his office, I glanced at some summary information about heart procedures at the hospital where his office was located. Even as a totally ignorant lay person, I noted how routine and successful these procedures seemed to be, and that patients were up and doing light physical therapy soon after these procedures.

    And I guess I shouldn’t have been looking at this stuff. But it was out in the open.

  181. 181
    TomatoQueen says:

    @Kent: Elizabeth would never cheat on Bailey, never never never.

  182. 182
    TomatoQueen says:

    @LivinginExile: Which Lieberman? Joe? Avigdor? Can’t abide either one of them but Joe the Fence-Sitter (local epithet) frosts my cookies.

  183. 183

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I’m more interested in the type of cardiac event he had that prompted them taking him to the Cardiac Cath Lab so quickly

    Yep. It’s not about the stents. It’s about how much damage was done to the cardiac muscle before the stents were inserted. Could be big, could be insignificant.

  184. 184
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @SFAW: Just recalling that when I had my gall bladder out the doctor mentioned that when he said it was minor surgery it meant that it was no big deal for the doctor to perform, quick & routine which might or might not reflect on how easy it went for the patient afterwards.

  185. 185
    Avalune says:

    I remember being rather indignant about Hillary being told to go knit…as an insult! Margaret Atwood pooped on knitting in her book The Testaments too. I’ll forgive her though – she’s great. But I’ll remember all this oh go knit a sweater when the apocalypse comes and mofos wish they had a sweater! [Avalune, only being loosely on topic as always]

  186. 186
    Mnemosyne says:

    Okay, I can’t stop laughing that the big graphic at the press conference was: “Elizabeth Warren: Cougar.”

    I mean, are they TRYING to boost her campaign?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/willsommer/status/1179821913385910273

  187. 187
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: If Warren campaign did pay for this stunt under the table, then all of the leading Democratic candidates are seriously damaged. Democrats in disarray!

    Edit: Fox News propaganda department is competent, so I suspect if they cover it, that will be the angle.

  188. 188
  189. 189
    SFAW says:

    Maybe it’s me, but I find this whole thread to be a BJ microcosm:

    Starts out with a Cole “fuck you” post, then adds, at various times: Hillary hate, Bernie hate, heart disease/surgery discussions, discussing Elizabeth Warren’s “affair” with a “Marine and bodybuilder,” some Wohl/RWMF scorn, some Nancy Smash throwdown on Dumbfuck McCarthy, and some troll-busting.

    If I smoked, I’d need a cigarette. Was it good for y’all, too?

  190. 190
    Avalune says:

    @Mnemosyne: OMG having the dude take his shirt off to show his sex injuries…which he posted in Instagram as a bruise from a chain is HILARIOUS. I want to ask how anyone could possibly take any of it seriously but then I remind myself…TRUMP! And other utter nonsense…just had someone recently trying to say Paul (Beatles) was actually decapitated and they brought in a doppleganger who won a look a like contest to play him for the rest of his life.

  191. 191
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @HeleninEire: So we aren’t forgiving people who voted for Sanders in the 2016 primary now?

    And that commenter has posted here for a…. Fuck it, you guys win.

  192. 192
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Avalune:

    And he apparently started cracking up in the middle of his own press statement even before the strip show began. 😂

    Not to mention that I can’t really see the accusation of Warren still being interested in TEH S-E-X at her age being damaging with any voters who aren’t already terrified of her.

  193. 193
    jl says:

    @Avalune: Warren really had the affair with Paul, which is why he was murdered in order to avoid the scandal that would ruin her future campaign. Orchestrated by OBAMA, no… BIDEN… no… HRC… umm… how about GORE!. QAnon is on it! Trump and Trump base will believe it.
    Trump will call dozens of nations to try to ID the Paul body double. Why destroy yourself over only one opponent? Go big!

    Edit: pin it on Soros. That’t the ticket.

  194. 194

    @Avalune: The Ravelry people and the kitty-cat hat people totally rock.

  195. 195
    SFAW says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Okay, I can’t stop laughing that the big graphic at the press conference was: “Elizabeth Warren: Cougar.”
    I mean, are they TRYING to boost her campaign?

    The only problem is picturing Cole writing a post talking about “starbursts” vis-a-vis the (potential) Cougar-in-Chief.

  196. 196
    LivinginExile says:

    @TomatoQueen: Matt Lieberman

  197. 197
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @trollhattan: Nope – she just shifted the blade to her dominant hand.

    She cuts you hard, she cuts you deep
    She’s got so much skill –
    She’s so fascinating that you’re still there waiting
    When she comes back for the kill.
    You’ve been slashed in the face,
    You’ve been left there to bleed;
    You want to run away, but you know you’re gonna stay
    ‘Cause she gives you what you need.

    Then she says she wants defections
    While she searches for the vein
    She’s so good with her stiletto
    You don’t really mind the pain
    You don’t mind the pain

    Someone with more time on their hands could ring some interesting changes on this…

  198. 198
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @Brachiator: Yes, sorry for that-MI is myocardial infarction. And they’re becoming increasingly safer and more routine every year, and yet still have risks so we do try to avoid them if possible, even for exploratory or diagnostic reasons. Bleeding complications being the number one adverse event.

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Yep. It’s not about the stents.

    Exactly.Although, a caveat is that when you’re a high profile, wealthy person running a campaign for President, it’ might result in a more rapid response and/or decision to place stents at an earlier stage of heart disease than say, someone who has less stress and more time for a reasonable recovery period. But I’d say the fact they are not discharging him until the weekend is a big tell that his was likely a more serious infarction–many patients go home with only a 24-36 hour stay after stent placement, even with an MI, as long as they’re otherwise “hemodynamically stable”.

  199. 199
    SFAW says:

    @jl:

    Warren really had he affair with Paul, which is why he was murdered.

    And then his headless body was dragged to Fort Marcy Park?

  200. 200
    Brachiator says:

    @Gelfling 545:

    Just recalling that when I had my gall bladder out the doctor mentioned that when he said it was minor surgery it meant that it was no big deal for the doctor to perform, quick & routine which might or might not reflect on how easy it went for the patient afterwards.

    What is the old joke? A doctor prepares to jab a patient in the butt with a huge needle. The worried patient gulps and asks if it will hurt.

    The doctor replies, “Nope. Won’t hurt me at all.”

  201. 201
    Ruckus says:

    @trollhattan:
    The changes in medicine in the last 50-60 years is amazing. Pacemakers, heart transplants, MRI and on and on and on, it really is a huge change in life and living better. If we could convince a few more people that improving the economy so that more people could make use of said medical care, eat reasonably, and live heather, this might be a better country
    Ahh dreams, funny how even simple dreams upset the privileged.

  202. 202
    Another Scott says:

    @JPL: Speaking of Pence, Twitter:

    sandralynpierce @apiercingtruth

    Replying to @dvillella @SarahLongwell25

    Pence is a Koch darling. There’s a Koch/Russia connection and it has to do with Russian Oil. Trump was Putin’s man and Pence was Koch’s guy.

    8:41 PM – 25 Sep 2019

    Ah, so that’s the piece that has been missing…

    Grrr…

    (via https://twitter.com/SarahLongwell25/status/1176980597857759232 via https://twitter.com/RepDonBeyer/status/1179850465200222216 )

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  203. 203

    I leave this Warren tweet here for your gleeful comments.

    It's always a good day to be reminded that I got where I am because a great education was available for $50 a semester at the University of Houston (go Cougars!). We need to cancel student debt and make college free for everyone who wants it. pic.twitter.com/fHasLm0j9P— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) October 3, 2019

  204. 204
    Leto says:

    @SFAW: If we could get some, “I tried to give Steve a bath, so he shat on me, clawed my arms to shred, I then slipped on the mop, tried to drive myself to the ER because I broke both shoulders but instead crashed the car in a field, said FUCK IT and just left it there, and now I’m home. Also the tree is too close to the house. I took picture of it, what do you think? *giant thumb*”, then I think the thread would be complete.

  205. 205
    dww44 says:

    @LivinginExile: Hadn’t heard about this and I live in the state. Never heard of him either.

  206. 206
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @jl:

    The press conference is being drowned by out by Chumbawamba. Jacob tells the security guard to remove a heckler, but the guard appears to refuse on the grounds that the man is on public property.— Will Sommer (@willsommer) October 3, 2019

  207. 207
    jl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Just evidence that Warren campaign paid for the stunt. Didn’t expect W&B to botch it so badly. The hunk was supposed to break down and weep while flexing. Campaign needed to salvage something of value out of it. They planned to issue a no comment and nervously avoid answering questions.

    Look for more on Fox and Friends tomorrow.

  208. 208
    SFAW says:

    @Leto:

    Well, OK, but then it becomes too Cole-centric. Maybe spread those over a few posts?

  209. 209
    Martin says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Yay! Go Cougars!

    She got off to a rough start this campaign, but she’s got this now.

  210. 210
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Avalune:

    My bad carpal tunnels forced me to become a former knitter, and I’m still sad about it. 😢

  211. 211
    Kent says:

    @TomatoQueen: Of course there are. At least in North Carolina. Perhaps not so much in states like Iowa, North Dakota and Idaho.

    My larger point is that there are a hierarchy of issues that I care about. Climate change, the environment, education, immigration, social justice, and a whole bunch of other issues just rank a lot higher on my list of priorities and issues I care about than saving old rural racist white people from themselves. I used to care about that too but I’m just too exhausted with them to care anymore. And I have a bunch of elderly MAGA relatives who keep reminding me why I don’t care anymore.

  212. 212
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Amir Khalid: LOL

  213. 213
    trollhattan says:

    @jl:
    Only Liz and the walrus know for sure. And the walrus ain’t talkin’, know what I’m sayin’?

  214. 214
    Leto says:

    @Avalune: @Dorothy A. Winsor: I, for one, gladly welcome our new knitting overlords: all hail the Merino god! All hail her sister, Cashmere! May they reign forever!

  215. 215
    Retr2327 says:

    @Mnemosyne: you should check out warren’s twitter post in response. (Look for the cougar reference). Some grade A twitter chops . . .

  216. 216
    Leto says:

    @SFAW: But see it’s those Cole-centric stories that just boost a post over the top. Honestly if we had something like that happen (all those in one post), I’m fairly certain the blog would just meltdown and a Looney Toons sign would be hung: “That’s all, folks!”

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: See, that’s just next level trolling that sets her apart. Bravo! She and Harris have wonderful social media accounts.

  217. 217
  218. 218
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Retr2327:

    Seen and already posted to my personal Facebook page. 😂

  219. 219
    Another Scott says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    The press conference is being drowned out by Chumbawumba.

    That has to be a new rotating tag line, doesn’t it??

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  220. 220
    WaterGirl says:

    @Leto: You forgot Lily! But otherwise, that was quite excellent!

  221. 221
    Elizabelle says:

    @Another Scott: I really think mistermix’s title, “Self-Impeaching” is the first in a series of posts to come.

  222. 222
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Leto: @WaterGirl: What? No mustard?

  223. 223

    @jl: Look at the “Abbey Road” album cover, the VW has a license plate “28 IF”. Deep State even got The Beatles.

    Spoiler alert: Paul was 27 when they shot that photo.

  224. 224
    Avalune says:

    @Mnemosyne: This makes me very sad. I will knit in your honor. I knit slowly though :) and get distracted with other hobbies.

  225. 225
    Dan B says:

    @Kent: The Wohl story seems to have said that not only did the Marine and Liz engage in BDSM but that Liz used a strap on! It would be an incel fantasy of being topped by a woman. Erotic misogyny? Fantasy secret fanboy misogyny?

    Wohl seems to be devolving. Will Christianists seize upon this to drive the final stake in evolution?

  226. 226
    NotMax says:

    @Leto

    *giant thumb*

    *giant out of focus thumb*

    ;)

  227. 227
    Leto says:

    @WaterGirl: @mrmoshpotato: Mustard was originally included, but it sort of disrupted the narrative. I totally forgot that Thurston would’ve been another tripping hazard, Rosie would’ve bitten him as he lay on the ground, but perfect Lilly would’ve gazed into his eyes and healed everything.

    The man has so many hijinks…

  228. 228
    trollhattan says:

    @Ruckus:
    Heart attacks, strokes, pneumonia, car wrecks–that’s how I recall most adults succumbing when I was a kid. In addition to the vast advances you cite, smoking cessation, safe cars and better engineered roads and highways have saved millions. We do keep finding new, inventive ways though. And don’t get me started on eschewing vaccines….

  229. 229
    Sherparick says:

    @jl: Sanders is one of 3 top candidates. He could well be the nominee & polls better Warren against Trump, almost as well as Biden. I’m for Warren, but would prefer Sanders to Biden as my second choice. I would say that Drunph sucking up 110% of media attention with his open criminality is one reason the story is being ignored.

  230. 230
    Betsy says:

    @Kent: You know, that sounds just like the Copperheads around the time of the Civil War.

    Every time someone with privilege says “I’ve given up on the South! I’m leaving! To hell with those people!” the ghost of Harriet Tubman kills a kitten.

  231. 231
    Betsy says:

    @Kent: Also, too, North Carolina’s a slightly blue state, for your information. But (like Ohio, Pennsylvania, and others) it’s been gerrymandered and voter-suppressed into submission.

  232. 232
    Kent says:

    @Betsy: I hear you and I agree in theory. But 10 years of fighting in local politics in Texas and watching everything slowly slip away into a sea of MAGA red just burned me out on the south.

  233. 233
    misterpuff says:

    @the Conster: I think Wilmer’s virtual Teflon is similiar to Drumpf’s. Its the Base, Stupid. No competitor wants to rile up those hornet nests. The MAGAts and the Bernie Bros get all huffy.
    Of course now, the Base has been somewhat defanged bur it still can strike in a one-to-one primary. The BBs, however, have lost cohesion and the bulk of Dems have moved on.
    Oh and Dems are constitutionally deterred from playing Hardball, while Repugs and hardcore Bernistas play beisball with live grenades.

  234. 234
    Betsy says:

    @Kent: The old racist white people might just have been snookered old white people.

    And, I wasn’t bringing this so much to say “wite people have needs!” but to say that it’s encouraging that even old white people in the rural South can wise up, eventually, to a shitty, plantationized political ideology. It’s encouraging that North Carolina rural voters are getting disenchanted with national Republican ideologues. It’s encouraging that county boards are resisting state and national Republican leaders. I’d love it if it went further, of course.
    We are allies with poor people, with working people, with sick people. I’m taking my inspiration from Rev. William Barber, who urges us to take up the Fusion Movement banner as blacks and poor whites did after the Civil War, and they (for a time) threw off the yoke of the powerful together. You clearly have the option of “writing it all off” and escaping, then crowing about having run away successfully. Many of us don’t.

  235. 235
    Jake Gibson says:

    @Ladyraxterinok:
    Sally Quinn quoting The High Broder himself.
    Pretty much called the Clinton’s hillbilly trash.

  236. 236
    Zinsky says:

    While I am not a big Hillary fan and thought she ran a terrible campaign, she is a very bright and competent technocrat and would have made a fine president, so I agree with you, Cole. The other thing you forgot to mention was that she also got more votes than the shitgibbon but because we have the apartheid Electoral College, the scumbag got the job!

  237. 237
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jake Gibson: No, it was the reverse.

  238. 238
    Kattails says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I confess to having been cheating on BJ the last few days with Ravelry. It can be quite addictive as in 3 AM self: GET TO BED other self: just couple more minutes ‘k?
    Got some nice but discontinued yarn last year & made one throw for the local cold-weather shelter, have enough for another; also, there’s a website called Operation Gratitude (I think it was linked by a Ravelry person) where you can knit/crochet scarves and hats for service members & veterans. Nearly done with one, they want them rather narrow, 4-6″ x 48-50″ long, so it goes fast. It is a soothing break from the news & the cat is extremely happy to hang out next to me on the couch. win-win-win

  239. 239

    @Ella in New Mexico: Thanks, that is good sense. Maybe there’s a simpler explanation, though. If Sanders was having unstable angina, the sort where someone could go for weeks or collapse in moments, they’d want to get him into treatment as fast as possible.

    “Sometimes I question if all we know about Cardiovascular Disease Prevention makes much difference at all.” Genetics plays a big role. I have all my parents chronic conditions of old age. And “Against death doth no simple grow.”

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