Elizabeth Warren won’t have to run a single ad if these guys keep it up. https://t.co/INzuOBNE3K
— Tim Fullerton (@TimFullerton) October 1, 2019
“@ewarren, meanwhile, used the renewed focus on the issue as an opportunity to reiterate that she is ’not afraid to hold Big Tech companies like @Facebook, Google, and Amazon accountable.’” https://t.co/0AK32XA5Gx
— Gabe Ortíz (@TUSK81) October 1, 2019
“By offering a steady diet of policy proposals, Warren has grown her following significantly and risen to the top of the polls. Her plans to reshape the gov’t extend to areas like the economy and education, where she has called for a wealth tax and canceling student loan debt.”
— Gabe Ortíz (@TUSK81) October 1, 2019
I am not going to lie, this makes me a little nervous about Facebook's trustworthiness going into this election.
— Summer Brennan ?? (@summerbrennan) October 1, 2019
Possibly related?…
Elizabeth Warren has overtaken Joe Biden as the top 2020 choice among college students, according to a new College Reaction/Axios poll. https://t.co/hW2LWFHXdm
— Axios (@axios) October 1, 2019
Which reminds me, in case anybody missed this during the rush of news last week:
Did… did the Warren campaign pay for this https://t.co/eQ4MsTR0kR
— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) September 26, 2019
wow that really does sound…
well pretty good tbh https://t.co/Ch48c3r6zF— darth™ (@darth) September 26, 2019
This sort of confirms Warren's whole worldview, doesn't? Big Finance, given the choice between treason and a wealth tax, chooses treason https://t.co/hcnGcpY4vq
— Paul Krugman (@paulkrugman) September 26, 2019
Maybe worth pointing out that Warren's wealth tax kicks in at $50 million. Sorry, but people with that much money can afford anything any sane human being would want. For them, wealth is about keeping score. For that, they'd betray democracy?
— Paul Krugman (@paulkrugman) September 26, 2019
dmsilev
Today, in “Annals of Rhetorical Questions”.
BC in Illinois
And, while we’re talking about Wall Street.
The Dow-Jones low for today is 26,035.
That’s 1,000 points down from 10AM yesterday.
This might have an effect on 2020 politics.
If we’re going to have a discussion — all next year — about how we dig out of a financial hole, and how we treat the 1%ers holding the bag . . . I’d like to have Elizabeth Warren setting the policies for the future.
rikyrah
@BC in Illinois:
now, 1000 points?
so much winnning… I can’t stand it.
trollhattan
I’ll show her: I”m spending until my net worth is $49.99MM. Come and get me, commie lady!
Mandalay
“Elizabeth Warren Has All the Right Enemies”
And she clearly has a few here on BJ as well.
dlwchico
My wife works at a largish but still local bank and she said that if you ever have any problems with your bank, tell them that you are going to contact the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau because nothing scares the bank execs more than the CFPB and they’ll usually bend over backwards to get you taken care of at that point.
trollhattan
@BC in Illinois: @rikyrah:
Day-umn. Like everyone counting on 401ks to carry their weight into retirement, Republicans screwing around with the economy, tax codes and frickin’ tariffs threaten my very existence. Bush II caused losses that only eight Obama years could mend. And now?
Elizabelle
@Mandalay: Yup. For what seems to be pretty specious reasons, too.
Anyway, maybe a fight with the plutocrats is what we need. They are certainly lining up.
Jump, you fuckers.
dmsilev
@dlwchico: Is that still true now that first Mick Mulvaney and then his disciple have spent a couple of years hamstringing the Bureau?
Al Z.
Probably a lot of overlap in visitors between here and LGM, but in case you missed this post by Paul Campos – it’s worth a read: http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2019/10/elizabeth-warren-as-a-law-teacher
Another Scott
I assume the Wilmer heart news (and the news that he’s pulling a $400,000 ad buy in Iowa) will shuffle the standings a bit more and give Warren another bump up. Who knows how long it will last.
Warning – Politico has a piece today about Warren’s rising status with AAs (19% and rising vs 40% for Biden).
It’ll be interesting to see if the stars continue to align for her, and how she will handle the inevitable “bombshell” that she has to figure is coming. (As it comes for any Democratic front-runner.)
Cheers,
Scott.
Cacti
If she’d just jettison the losing policy that is Berniecare, I’d feel a bit better about her chances in the general.
Archon
Machiavelli said Republics function best when the elite has a healthy fear of the masses. We have a situation now where the elite in the country have absolutely no fear and no respect for the people.
The rich in this country (for the most part) have been captured by a right-wing, basically libertarian ethos regarding money and short of confiscatory policies regarding wealth I’m not sure how to change that.
Mandalay
With Sanders out of the campaign game “until further notice“, and Biden keeping a low profile over his son’s work in Ukraine, Warren has a real opportunity to establish herself as the clear front runner.
It will be interesting to see if she has the stones to go after Biden’s tolerance of his son’s activities, but going after Biden didn’t really work for several other candidates (Gillibrand, Harris, Booker).
Cheap Jim
@BC in Illinois: 26,000? But Hassett, the Dow 36,000 guy is the president’s chief economic adviser!
HalfAssedHomesteader
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.
— Lucy Parsons
Yarrow
The head of Instagram, which is wholly owned by Facebook, was on the Today Show this morning. He moved to Instagram from Facebook so he seems to be a Facebook loyalist.
The interviewer asked him about Zuckerberg’s comments and he said they were said in a private conversation where Zuck was being “candid.” The interviewer kept asking about security concerns, online bullying and so forth but the guy just responded with bland answers. Bullying is bad and they don’t want it to happen, etc. Did learn that Instagram is expected to be the main app used for misinformation and propaganda in the 2020 campaign.
I don’t know who this guy is but he seemed nervous and uncomfortable the whole time while trying really hard to stay on his talking points and look smooth and cool. I came away wondering what he was so nervous about.
MisterForkbeard
@Another Scott: Wilmer heart news?
ETA: Nevermind! Found it.
ThresherK
Who’ll be this campaign’s Joe the Plumber? I know NPR is combing RealMurka to find someone making 2x the Federal poverty level whose ambition will be culled by having to pay a penny extra over $50M.
Yarrow
@MisterForkbeard: Thread about it downstairs. Had chest pains and stents put in.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
So, you’re hoping she sides with Trump against Biden?
rikyrah
@Another Scott:
Latest poll from South Carolina, out 10/1/2019
Black voters
Biden: 46%
Harris: 10%
Warren: 9%
MisterForkbeard
@Cacti: Right. What’s benefit here to… strengthening the Wildly misleading attacks on Biden by Trump?
rikyrah
Uh huh ?
Sometime in the future, political scientists will study Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party as an object lesson in how a small, devoted political cult can tank a mainstream party–even in the most favorable possible conditions for it–through slavish devotion to an incompetent leader. https://t.co/roXgetvdiJ
— (((Yair Rosenberg))) (@Yair_Rosenberg) October 2, 2019
rikyrah
Congratulations ??
Tyler Perry is the first African American to own a studio outright — no corporation or partners are involved in the venture. https://t.co/ytUNlhR1X3
— Los Angeles Times (@latimes) October 2, 2019
Cacti
@rikyrah:
Tony Jay will be along soon to tell you that Corbyn’s actually a political genius, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Elizabelle
@rikyrah: Yup. That’s a tragedy.
germy
Isn’t it wonderful though, how Zuckerboig had his privacy violated by a staff member who leaked his private anti-Warren comments?
Japa21
@Mandalay: What activities? Haven’t seen anything yet that approaches being illegal or unethical.
NotMax
I understand her tactics and concerns, but then again for much of America attacking Amazon (as an entity) is akin to attacking the Sears Roebuck catalog in 1900.
Yarrow
I’d missed this earlier today:
Hardly surprising it’s happening.
Japa21
@Cacti: I don’t think he is a big fan of Corbyn.
Neldob
Republicans want a return to feudalism. That’s the only logic I see. And yes, these oligarchs need to fear the masses. Moscow Mitch needs a bit of the pitchfork. Or lash, or snark or whatever the masses are handing out these days. besides nothing.
PJ
@Mandalay: Supporting Trump’s lies would not be a good look for a Democratic candidate. Even if you only meant that she should scold Biden because his adult son’s activities, which he has no control over, and which were not unethical from Joe’s standpoint, provided an opportunity for Republicans to smear him, that is still playing into Republican talking points – it’s like saying a Democratic candidate should attack Hillary for Benghazi, or for having a private email server.
NotMax
@rikyrah
If on Jeopardy, my response would have been “Who is Quincy Jones?”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yes, the Democrats using the primary to echo rightwing talking points about corruption can’t fail! She should also start saying that Biden’s strength in South Carolina doesn’t reflect “true progressives”, or the real base. And he should start talking about her claims of Native American ancestry, and why she supported Ronald Reagan and, by extension, Antonin Scalia, Anthony Kennedy, and Robert Bork! What could go wrong!
Jeffro
@NotMax: American consumers, plea-bargaining with EW:
“Liz…break up Facebook if you want. Make Google show random results if you must – who really cares about facts anymore anyways? But (sob)…I’m addicted to Amazon Prime at this point! Anything but that, please!”
Cacti
@MisterForkbeard:
I would hope she’s learned something from her previous assist to Trump in demagoguing the TPP in 2016.
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: They could also study the Indian National Congress under Rahul Gandhi. He seems like a nice enough person but is politically incompetent.
patrick II
So Trump’s ploy is working — if he doesn’t go to jail for it.
Jeffro
Trumpov to hold a 2pm news conference…should be EPIC!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Yarrow: hard to keep up with the firehose, but as I understand it, Richie Neal has that WB complaint, and is ‘considering’ making it public.
Also, the rank and file CIA is starting to– quite belatedly, IMHO– leak on Pompeo
I remember an article talking about how his wife referred to herself as “First Lady of the CIA”, and had an office on the executive floor for coordinating social events and family support. The latter part sounds like it might be SOP, but that first part… no wonder she and Louise Linton, Duchess of the Treasury, are said to be such good friends.
schrodingers_cat
@Japa21: He is, I think. TJ thinks Corbyn has been unfairly maligned by the British Press. Which is possible. He could be incompetent and unfairly maligned by the British Press.
NotMax
@Jeffro
“Where the hell else am I going to get my kale-infused K-cups?”
//
patrick II
@rikyrah:
Good for Tyler Perry, he is an ambitious man and deserves it. Although I will never see a movie with “Tyler Perry’s” across the top of it. Tastes differ.
Duane
@Jeffro: Trumpov has been quick to throw the treason word around. Someone should ask him to explain it. Epic indeed.
gwangung
@patrick II: Given that Ive attempted about 1% of what he’s done, I respect each and every bit of hardware he’s erected. He’s found something that works for him , built it up and done a LOT of stuff that get kudos across the board.
patrick II
@NotMax:
And my pet Yorkie is akin to White Fang the wolf.
patrick II
@gwangung:
I said he is an ambitious man who deserves it. He has worked hard. I just don’t like his movies. I respect his ambition. I can do both, right?
Dorothy A. Winsor
They should ask him what part of the criminal code he’s referring to here.
Then one of his people can try to explain to him what a criminal code is.
Mandalay
@PJ:
Well I disagree that Biden “has no control” over what his son did when he was Vice President. And any candidate criticizing any other candidate over anything is going to become a Republican talking point. Was Harris wrong to have gone after Biden? We’re in a fucked up world if you believe that.
And stop being so petrified of what Republicans might do. Candidates should not be immune from attacks from other candidates.
rikyrah
@patrick II:
I don’t like his television comedies. At all. I am SO not his tv comedy audience.
His television dramas are hit and miss.
His movies are also hit and miss with me. Some I like, some I don’t.
NotMax
@rikyrah
The Johnson brothers weren’t chopped liver.
japa21
@Mandalay: Still don’t know what activities you are talking about?
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
If black women continue to support Biden, then I will support Biden. They’ve been saving my white man ass from my fellow white men for decades, the least I can do is trust them. I’m kind of hoping they just haven’t had time to move on from the obvious safe choice, but if they don’t, I’ll assume they know better than me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
got it muted, but The Beast is again calling for Adam Schiff to be investigated for treason. He’s doing so while sitting next to the leader (President? PM? I don’t know) of Finland, who almost certainly has a recording of trump’s meeting with Putin in Helsinki.
jl
@Mandalay: “And she clearly has a few here on BJ as well.”
Warren is my first choice right now, Harris second. I think Harris is starting to find her footing on good clear policy proposals, and I hope there is time for her to come back.
Especially if Biden continues to fade. Biden’s campaign has been very disappointing to me. I hoped for much better from him.
I think Harris is a good blend of progressive and more centrist policies, and there is room for that in the campaign. Except from interviews I’ve seen (anecdata, I know) many of Warren’s supporters see her filling that role. I see that as more style than substance, and some PR like Warren insisting that she is a just a good capitalist. I think that is good PR since a lot of truth behind it. But in terms of stereotyped and very biased and weird view of left-right divide on economics in US, Warren is definitely a lefty.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The Finn leader has that “Oh god, why didn’t I say there was a serious domestic matter than kept me at home?” look
Elizabelle
@NotMax: Noble and George Johnson. Had not heard of them. Thank you.
Will raise you George and Louis E. Strawberry Letter 23.
ruemara
Well, she certainly is the media’s darling. I remain uncommitted. However, dealing with the monstrosity of tech companies and social media should be on every candidate’s policy plan. And considering Biden wanted the company investigated in the Ukraine and the pressure to get the investigator fired was because they weren’t looking into the corruption, it’s not relevant for a candidate to chide Biden. It’s relevant for the news media to do it’s actual reporting job and report these facts, not put it on campaigns to do it.
Kay
@Mandalay:
Warren has an approach that’s working and she sticks with it. Not every comparison has to be drawn. She was gaining on Biden prior to the Ukraine issue. Why would she do that? It’s all risk and no reward.
Democrats don’t want them fighting. They want to win. She has to show them she can do that.
germy
@Jeffro:
A real news conference, or just something shouted under a helicopter?
cain
@PJ:
Looks desperate and also will get their camps attacking each other. There needs to be unity. There is no reason to attack anyone’s adult children.
You know that whole line about Democrats fall in love and Republicans fall in line? It’s likely because with Democrats we care about society, ethics, and things concerning our better natures and we want to see that reflected in our leaders. Republicans not so much, and with the lack of a particularly organizing principle (other than greed), the only thing they have is authoritarianism and thus that is how things are.
Republicans vote lockstep, and at high rates, Democrats need spend a lot of energy getting their people to the polls because they need to be highly inspired or worried to do it.
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
“Finland is a happy country.”
Actual quote.
Addendum – Downhill Donald actually said something true: “What happened in 2016 was a disgrace to this country.”
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Adam Schiff ain’t never scared. You can tell that about him.
PJ
@Mandalay: WTF did Biden do wrong? Are you saying Warren should attack him because he did not publicly disown his son, who did nothing illegal, and, at most, was guilty of being the not-so-bright relative who takes a job because he is the relative of someone more famous or powerful?
I’d swear you were a GOP plant.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Trump doesn’t have the discipline to stick to the “Democrats aren’t getting anything done” message. He can’t do it. It’s not about him. He talks about impeachment more than the Democrats do.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
Does your father still decide how you live your life?
Mandalay
@Japa21:
Well how does this sit with you?….
Illegal? No.
Unethical? Yes.
Completely inappropriate for Joe Biden to allow this without disclosure at the time? Hell yes.
All the fretting about what Republicans might do if fellow candidates attack Biden over nepotism is both childish and naive. If Biden becomes our candidate he will get savaged by Republicans for this regardless. So Biden needs to put on his big boy pants and address it now. If he can knock it out of the park that’s great. And if he can’t then let’s find a more suitable candidate.
Ivanka, Don Jr. and Eric must be praying that Biden gets the nomination, because if he does then Democrats won’t have a leg to stand on to go after them for profiting from their father’s lofty position.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
trump now denying “wanting extreme measures at border”. HE’ll be bragging about alligators and electrified spikes by the time Hannity airs.
Frankensteinbeck
@NotMax:
It is. Finland is widely considered to be one of the best places on Earth to live, and I believe it actually ranked the happiest citizens. They are legendarily nice, and the country is experimenting with universal guaranteed income. Its only gigantic flaw is that it has dark, dark, DARK winters. Personally, I was stunned to read its national oral epic, the Kalevala, and it’s damn near a season of My Little Pony. Instead of the bloodbaths of other national epics, almost everything is settled by learning a lesson in friendship.
In other words, it’s the exact opposite of everything Trump understands or stands for.
FlipYrWhig
Is this thing that Trump keeps saying about Schiff, at heart, that he paraphrased the transcript when talking about it? That would be incredibly stupid even by Trump’s standards of stupid.
Dorothy A. Winsor
You can’t make this crap up.
jl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Finnish president usually does foreign diplomatic work, so that should be Sauli Niinistö. I’m disappointed if he is making faces. Finns are supposed to be stoic and take that kind of stuff without any reveal.
@cain: I think Warren has been smart in how she approaches the kind of systemic corruption that ultimately comes from the influence of big money in US politics by calling it what it is, systemic corruption hat ultimately comes from the influence of big money in politics. The ultimate cure is to reduce the influence of big money. So, I hope if reporters look for a ‘gotcha’ or ‘Dems in disarray’ scoop with Warren and the attempted Trumpster smear of Biden, that she sticks with that.
Elizabelle
@Jeffro: I felt so bad when I heard the poor Finnish leader was in town. It’s going to be another hostage situation.
Mai naem mobile
@Dorothy A. Winsor: but he thinks criminal code only applies to blackity blackity blacks and Messicans
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@FlipYrWhig: also all but requires the response: The President should clarify this matter by releasing to the Intel committees all the records and notes about those phone calls that have been, probably illegally, loaded on to that secret server.
Cacti
@PJ:
He’s a Sanders cultist. Hard to tell the difference sometimes.
He’s probably feeling extra chippy over the news of his god’s health issues.
Kay
@Mandalay:
I mean, this has been her whole campaign. Take the smaller “news o the day” and connect it to a broader idea. It’s deliberate. It’s so she doesn’t get bogged down in the pettiness. Voters (outside of political junkies) really do hate that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
less making faces than trying and not quite succeeding in keeping th panic out of his face.
Jeffro
McMegan’s latest and greatest is up at the WaPo: “Democrats, Don’t Make It Too Hard For Republicans to Jump On The Impeachment Train”
Actual quote: “Don’t ‘shower invective’ on Republicans” (for supporting trumpov up until this point)
Yer kiddin’, McMegs. I’ve got so much ‘invective’ for Republicans, I might NEVER run out.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Archon:
Look at Trump, the wealthy are so coddled and protected they aren’t able to deal with reality now. Trump wanted a moat at the border filled with alligators and snakes when someone told him that’s not humanly possible, Trump fired that person, rather than deal with reality.
Trump maybe a nutty but I’ve seen that to leaser degrees every place I’ve worked.
Steeplejack
@Al Z.:
Good post. Thanks for the link.
MisterForkbeard
@FlipYrWhig: That’s it. Schiff obviously paraphrased Trump and put it in context, and Trump has decided that Schiff lied about quoting him.
It’s a big talking point in the right, along with “the whistleblower is reporting secondhand information!” and so on.
If this seems incredibly silly, that’s because you’re correct.
Betty Cracker
@Mandalay:
It’s definitely going to come up, so she better have a good answer. I think Warren could address the issue in a way that doesn’t slam Biden but also underlines her agenda to clean up government — an agenda that was out there long before this scandal broke.
If I were her, I’d start off by saying multiple investigations have concluded Hunter Biden’s activities were legal, so Trump is not only committing an impeachable offense by improperly using his office to sandbag an opponent, he’s lying about it too. Then I’d talk about how sleazy it is that Trump’s adult children are openly profiting from his administration.
And finally, I’d say that if I were president, I’d enact accountability laws to ensure official’s children weren’t hired in government positions and that no one in my administration would tolerate even the appearance of impropriety. This would dispose of the question without advancing Trump’s lies, IMO.
jl
@FlipYrWhig: Schiff very clearly announced right beforehand in the hearing, that he was very loosely paraphrasing the language of the call notes (not transcript in any event) in order to make a point about it’s essential nature
So, Trump is just lying. Or he ignorantly got the talking point from watching Fox News and none of his abject and supine flunkies have the guts to set him straight.
NotMax
@Frankensteinbeck
Also the greatest consumption of coffee, per capita, by a mile.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
SFAW
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I wish that treasonous motherfucker would SHUT THE FUCK UP for one day. Just one.
dmsilev
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: By tomorrow morning, the RFQ for “snake-filled moat” will have leaked.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
Say it with me now, and have a good cry:
Bernie Sanders will never be President of the United States.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Every elected Dem and Dem-leaning pundit and NeverTrumper on TV should be saying:
This is happening because Mitt Romney is letting it happen
This is happening because Susan Collins is letting it happen
This is happening because Richard Burr is letting it happen
This is happening because Cory Gardner is letting it happen
This is happening because Martha McSaly is letting it happen
et cetera
Mai naem mobile
@Elizabelle: the Finns have lived with Russians for basically forever so dealing with Trumpov should not be hard for a Finn. Trumpov though is probably so stupid that he probably thinks Finns are Swedes but they’re quite different .
PJ
@Mandalay: From the article you quote:
And:
In short, you are full of shit, and any candidate who followed your advice would be a moron.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
he’s having a press conference in an hour. Did he just write the first question or the second one?
dmsilev
@Jeffro: Has anyone ‘showered invective’ on any Republican who switched from supporting Trump to supporting impeachment? Aside from Republicans, that is? Justin Amash was essentially driven out of the Party to become an independent, and I’m unaware of any other apostates so far. A lot of furrowed brows and deep concern, but that’s meaningless.
SFAW
@Jeffro:
Well, rest assured that if YOU run out, I have a shitload that I can loan you. Hell, I’m givin’ it away!
I hope this lets you continue to invect without worry regarding resource availability.
Kent
@Yarrow:
But seriously, how many old white people actually use instagram. I know all my 50+ something white MAGA relatives are all over Facebook and Fox News. But Instagram?
jl
@Betty Cracker: I think choices for Warren are to:
get played and either implicitly buy into Trupster smear of Biden, or waffle around and get BS accusation of hypocrisy (that is what media wants since it requires no work, but hope she doesn’t fall for it).
get played and talk about a billion rules like rules about what grown-up second cousin’s father-in-law’s step son of a politician can and cant’ do (hope doesn’t fall for it)
just stick wit her consistent message about needed to eliminate role of big money in politics as the ultimate cure for actual and appearance of corruption (that’s the ticket)
And she needs to start out with scoffing at the Biden smear and calling it was it is, a smear based on lies.
When the time comes, let’s see what she does.
Mandalay
@PJ:
The entire point of Hunter Biden’s trip was for him to see them “for a cup of coffee” (eye roll). You’re the fucking moron if you can’t see that.
SFAW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I hadn’t heard that MAGAt Habs was there. Interesting.
rikyrah
Ok,
This was ????
Chris Hayes (@chrislhayes) Tweeted:
If someone could harness the president’s self-pity as electricity, it could power the entire global economy carbon-free.
Nicole
@Kent:
Well, the Right already has the poorly informed prone-to-racism elderly contingent locked up; they’re looking to influence younger voters now.
rikyrah
@SFAW:
Then release the transcript.
ALL the hidden transcripts
NotMax
@dmsilev
While may be wishy-washy to us, mutinous to Rs: First House Republican backs Trump impeachment inquiry.
PJ
@Mandalay: Again, there is no evidence that Biden did anything illegal or unethical, and you’re advancing GOP talking points (ETA: which are designed to make Trump look better.)
SFAW
What this thread needs is someone questioning what Hillary REALLY SAID when she spoke to Goldman Sachs.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
being deeply ambivalent about Biden, one of the things that does bother me about Hunter’s trading on his name is the Joe reportedly disapproved of the Clintons’ buck-raking— and by reportedly I mean the kind of thing Biden liked to say ‘on background’ to Maureen Dowd, something else that gives me pause about Biden.
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: I think Tony Jay has made an excellent case that Corbyn is well supported by the majority of Labour, and that Labour has a variety of views on complicated topics and has done a good job holding the party together.
Politics is a tough business. I haven’t seen a compelling case that anyone else could do the job better, given the circumstances.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
SFAW
@rikyrah:
It’ll be a race between that, and the heat-death of the sun.
jl
@SFAW: Has anyone ever checked her purse for the missing servers, and the missing basement of the pizza joint? That’s what I want to know.
Bet the Deep State FBI hasn’t.
Edit: maybe Giuliani will give some evidence on his cell phone at his next media appearance.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@dlwchico: I had a problem with Citibank. I took it to CFPB. They fixed it. I commented here and elsewhere that amazingly there was one government agency still on the side of the taxpayers.
Also did I mention Citibank is horrible? Citibank, Citibank, Citibank.
SFAW
@jl:
You’re mixing up witches: it was Hermione Granger who magicked her purse so that it could contain all that stuff. Easy mistake to make, I realize.
Cacti
@Another Scott:
Yeah, they’re really in a strong position heading into the next election. ;-)
patrick II
Too much money in too few places also means too much power in too few places. Especially in the days since Citizen’s United, fascist John Roberts anti-democratic gift to all-the-money should mean all-the-power crowd, along with tax policies that allow the law of compound interest to move the wealthy into the ultra-wealthy stratosphere, we need to break those large corporations up and tax the wealthy at a more realistic rate.
This is true even more than in Teddy Roosevelt’s anti-monopolies days because today’s most dangerous corporations not only control most of the money, but most of the dialogue. Murdoch, Limbaugh, Zuckerberg’s regressive philosophies are broadcast (or in Zuckerberg’s case, microcast) daily destroying the fabric of this country. It must change. I actually would like to make America great again (we haven’t been lately) but who defines what a great America would look like and how it is communicated to the public in the face of private ownership and interests owning the megaphone is difficult problem. Civility, respect for law and respect for others, even others who don’t look like you, would be important features.
Ruckus
@Archon:
You take it back from them. They took it in several ways, one of which is the tax system. Use that to return it to the vast majority, the ones that paid a lot of it.
dmsilev
@NotMax: That was pretty wishy-washy, he explicitly said he didn’t support impeachment itself, just the inquiry. But ok, that’s two.
Over at LG&M, a commenter coined ‘Murc’s Law’, which is that “Only Democrats Have Agency” (in the eyes of the news media etc.). Republicans are never responsible for their own choices and decisions because they can’t help themselves or they’re forced by their base or whatever. Democrats are responsible not only for their own actions but for the actions of Republicans. McArdle’s column is a perfect example; she spends the whole thing talking about how Democrats need to accommodate Republicans, but somehow mysteriously fails to ask what Republicans are willing to do.
NotMax
@jl
Purse? Full body cavity search.
(Ewww.)
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
One of the things that gives me pause about Warren is why she’s never explained in any detail, why it took her until age 46 to figure out Republicans were the bad guys. Watergate and Iran-Contra weren’t enough to sway her. What changed?
jl
Not Max @ 104 (I don’t see reply button)
” While may be wishy-washy to us, mutinous to Rs: First House Republican backs Trump impeachment inquiry. ”
Will be interesting to see if corporate media now blesses impeachment inquiry as bipartisan. That is the iron clad rule going the other way, get on Dem and it’s bipartisan and blessed.
NotMax
@dmsilev
There’s something to be said for the camel’s nose theory.
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
There are transcripts, and if I’m not mistaken they have always been public.
trollhattan
@Jeffro:
Rev up the heli’s engines.
MisterForkbeard
@Cacti: How old was Cole when he switched parties?
Sometimes it just takes a number of big, awful events that force you to really change your views. Nothing shameful about it.
cain
@jl:
Well you triggered me and now I have Big Money by Rush on the brain.
Jeffro
@SFAW: I was gonna just ‘invect away’ and worry about running out IF ever I ran out.
I love how just to keep our democracy from dissolving under Shit Midas’ touch, we have to listen to McCardle say “hey, heeeeyy now, I know you lefties have been onto this clown for years and have all the facts on your side and are fighting the good fight and have been right about every damn thing…just don’t get TOO carried away here, I’m already uncomfortable here.” The sheer privilege that kind of mindset takes is just astounding.
gwangung
@Mandalay: >I< do what Hunter Biden's claimed to have done, and I'm solid middle class.
Son, I think you ought to be careful who you're calling a moron.
Nicole
I was thinking this week, about how in 2010, Obama and Pelosi leaned hard on several House Democrats to vote for the AHA, even though they were likely to lose their seats over it. Obama, as I recall, even basically told them there are some things worth losing your job over. And they voted for it, and they lost their seats, and lots and lots of Americans got health care, thanks to them sacrificing their jobs (I have a friend who would be on permanent disability today, if not for the ACA. Instead, she has a full time job again and in the last year took up being an amateur bodybuilding competitor).
Compare that with Flake’s “Oh, if the vote was in secret, 30 Senators would vote to remove from office” BS. Democrats were willing to give up their jobs to save Americans’ health. Republicans won’t do it to save the fucking COUNTRY.
Kay
It’s anecdotal but Democrats here really, really don’t want them fighting. They did take a lesson from 2016. They are really wary of splitting.
trollhattan
@rikyrah:
Agreed. And I’d never play poker with him, “Sorry honey, but that mean Mr. Schiff took all your tuition money.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
once again, there’s none so queer as American voters
I mean, this is good news, but… how do their brains work?
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
That gives you pause about her? Have you read any of her work? That she was open enough to facts to become a Democrat on the basis of what she had found out is sufficient evidence, to me, of her sincerity.
By the way, what else gives you pause about her?
Kent
@Cacti: I may have this wrong but I think she said the last Republican she supported was Ford. Like many Americans she may have stopped supporting the GOP before actually switching parties. I actually supported some GOP politicians back in the 70s too. I voted for Mark Hatfield in Oregon when I turned 18 because he was opposing Carter’s saber rattling and reinstatement of draft registration. Many in the GOP were a lot more sane back then.
Martin
@MisterForkbeard: 37 I think? About that.
Kay
@Nicole:
They’re terrible. And I think it should be noted more often that they have absolutely no respect for the US Constitution and our system of government. WTF, Republicans? Allowing Trump to go out there and threaten to arrest a member of the US House? Watching his low quality hires sneer at Congress and be incredibly disrespectful to them? When you’re IN Congress?
Just pathetic.
mad citizen
Eat the Rich.
NotMax
@Nicole
There is nothing preventing the vote from being held in secret. The Senate crafts its own rules with near impunity.
Just sayin’.
Sheila in nc
@Frankensteinbeck:
You are absolutely correct (re black women). I have a (white) friend who wants to volunteer to drive voters to the polls but only if he can just drive black women voters
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
I don’t think they were public in the months before November, 2016, but I’ve been worng before. I recall a lot of “Why won’t Hitlary come clean about what she said to the G-S plutocrats????” I think that was a Bern-or-Bust-er thing for an inordinately long time.
jl
@Kent: For many people, formally switching parties is a big deal, and happens long after voting patterns change and any kind of real commitment disappears.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
would that all Repuplicans were so honest with their voters
Elizabelle
@Nicole: Thank you, Nicole. Exactly right.
And a huge thank to Joseph Cao of Louisiana, wherever he is, the one-term Republican who was the only one to help vote the ACA along during the draft process. Citizen Cao. Had given some thought to becoming a Catholic priest before marrying and starting a family and entering politics. But he did the right thing WRT healthcare for his constituents (which were his for one term mainly because it was William “Cash in the Freezer” Jefferson’s seat and reverted to Democrats the following election). Cao voted against the final bill, but Nancy Pelosi had the votes to pass by then. History will be kind to Joseph Cao.
These Republicans are traitors, not patriots. What will it take WRT Trump’s behavior for them to man up? Cuz you know at some point some of them will have to, for personal political survival. (Which is a different principle entirely.)
sdhays
@Cacti: I don’t have a strong opinion on Corbyn, but the people he displaced were morons, and the implication that if only Corbyn would die, Labour would be great is…not well justified.
SFAW
@Kay:
Except that a too-large percentage of the Rethugs think THEY are the only legitimate rulers of this country. And, yes, “rulers” was intentional: Rethugs don’t want to govern, they want to rule.
Cacti
@Kent:
You’re wrong.
She voted for Reagan twice, and Papa Bush.
MisterForkbeard
@SFAW: Her GS transcripts were available since… at least Sept 16, IRCC. They were definitely public before the election, they were just completely uninteresting.
I think she told them they were important and a big engine of the economy.
Amir Khalid
@SFAW:
I remember people in 2016 grousing that Hillary wasn’t talking much about policy. She was, much more than any other candidate; but the media wasn’t interested in covering it. I never understood the obsession with what was in the speeches she gave to Goldman-Sachs. Such speeches are invariably written to be harmless and inoffensive.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Her questionable political instincts.
Kent
@Sheila in nc: I was living in Texas in 2008 during the Dem caucuses which exploded over Texas for pretty much the first time ever. I had a couple of middle class middle aged black women neighbors who I hung out with a lot and shared child care duties with as I was a stay home dad working out of a home office at the time. They were all hard core Hillary supporters at the time. Very loyal to Hillary because she had stood by them. And I remember my neighbor Edith telling me: “Last thing I need in my life is another young black man telling me what’s what. I’m going with Hillary.” I was an Obama supporter at the time. Of course come the general election her lawn was a sea of Obama08 signs which was very much a big middle finger to the rest of our mostly GOP gated suburban community. Heh.
patrick II
@jl:
Warren, really? Stop by her site sometime and read all of her detailed policy proposals if you have a day or two. I actually prefer Kamala’s style, but she has not come out with the theme united policies that Warren has. Warren’s “Capitalism, but with rules that make it fair” is as good as I have heard from any candidate.
schrodingers_cat
@Cacti: We agree on that. Its an unpopular position on Balloon Juice. I am not sold on EW.
Gelfling 545
@Mandalay: Tolerance of what precisely, as there is no evidence of any wrongdoing?
sdhays
@Kent: Illinois had pro-choice Republican governors into the new millennium. Lincoln Chafee was more liberal than a number of his Democratic colleagues when he left the Senate. I know a liberal Republican who stayed in the party to fight for it. Obviously, she lost, but just because she identified as Republican didn’t mean she was on board with the Southern Strategy.
patrick II
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I am starting to think Richard Neal is a republican. He’s had access to Trump’s New York state taxes for months now and has not asked for them.
SFAW
@MisterForkbeard:
OK, thanks, I had forgotten that
@Amir Khalid:
Agreed. The obsession was, I think, in no small part because the Bern-or-Bust-ers were trying to portray her as a Corp-O-Dem, unlike Mr. Pure, the Savior from Montpelier.
I can’t count how many times I saw someone write “She has no policy for X!” followed by someone providing a link to her campaign website, wherein she had already addressed, and formulated a policy for it, whatever “X” might be.
ruemara
@Nicole: Depressing voting with them is easy.
@Cacti: Which is why I can see why older, gay voters aren’t exactly universally thrilled.
Elizabelle
@Cacti:
Prove that. I don’t think that’s true. Further, it’s a private ballot. But where did you get that info? Show your work.
SFAW
@Cacti:
Such as?
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
Warren’s political instincts seem to have served her well so far.
Cacti
@schrodingers_cat:
The TPP demagoguery that was a boost to Trump.
Repeating Bernie’s bullshit lie that the 2016 primary was stolen from him.
The DNA test.
Raising her hand to say she would end private insurance.
There’s a pattern of questionable judgment in her fairly short political career.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat:
That’s fine. But it’s not OK to post false information or make up shit. Which you are not doing. But others (looking at you, cacti) are.
ETA: And to cacti, it’s on the alleged presidential voting. His comments at 159 are solidly sourced.
MisterForkbeard
@Amir Khalid: To be fair, I’ve seen two major whiffs from Warren: When she agreed that 2016 primaries were “rigged” and then walked it back, and when she botched her response to the Native American thing and badly misread how her DNA test would be perceived.
She appears to have learned a lot since then, but I had those same concerns back in April.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Yes, Amir. It’s very difficult for a liberal politician to be elected in Massachusetts.
Kay
Good. I think he’s channeling a real concern of “the establishment” – Pompeo is a clown and they all know he’s a clown. He’s in over his head. That he’s a CORRUPT clown is a bridge too far.
The foreign policy angle is legit. Whatever else this is, having these ridiculous Fox News people running around conducting foreign policy “off the books” makes the United States look bad.
PJ
@Cacti: @Elizabelle: Warren says that the last GOP candidate she voted for was Ford:
Source (warning, it’s Politico): https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/04/12/elizabeth-warren-profile-young-republican-2020-president-226613
Cacti
@PJ:
I see.
So she stayed a registered Republican for 20 years and in multiple states, just for the hell of it?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@rikyrah:
I’ve heard rumors that there’s a generational divide among AAs; that older AAs like Biden but younger ones support candidates like Wilmer and Warren. Does that ring true in your experience?
sdhays
@Cacti: It actually is difficult for a woman to get elected in Massachusetts.
schrodingers_cat
Massachusetts hasn’t nominated a winner since Kennedy.
There was Dukakis, then Kerry and there was Mittens.
Another Scott
@Cacti: I heard a bit of BoJo’s speech to his people this morning. He ranted about fratricidal anti-Semitic Marxists on the other side.
And too much of the UK press agrees with him.
Independent.co.uk:
If you strip away the slanted commentary, Corbyn sounds pretty sensible to me.
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Cacti:
And she hasn’t been one for 23 years. What’s your point? Insufficient purity? Are you going to go after people like Cole for being Republicans for years and finally seeing the light? That’s not how you grow a political party. I understand the impulse, but that has to be resisted
Kay
I am (obviously) a Warren supporter and I watched the interview with her and her husband this week and I really liked one thing they said. HE said that part of Warren’s decision making on whether to run included whether she would then be responsible for “Democrats” losing if she won the nom and lost the general. It’s important to me that she thinks about that. Thinks about US.
Crashman
@sdhays: I remember Martha Coakley’s failed senate run; there was definitely concern Warren might have the same result in her first run for senate.
Cacti
@schrodingers_cat:
And our Massachusetts residents may want to brace themselves for this, but a fair bit of that can be explained by…
Most of the rest of the country just doesn’t like you that much.
Nicole
@Cacti:
That’s not what she’s said in interviews. Until recently she wouldn’t say whether she had voted for Reagan. It’s recent that she’s come out and said Ford was the last Republican she voted for.
I fully admit, I’m dying to ask her if she voted for Anderson in ’80. ;) My loyal Democrat dad did, so you never know. Likewise Perot in ’92 (although my dad didn’t. My stepmom, however, cast her first vote as an American citizen… and her second… for Perot. She’d wised up by 2000).
This may be total tinfoil hat time for me, but the Warren-Harris stuff I see on Twitter is pretty ugly, and none of it is coming from either of their campaigns and I can’t help but think the bots are stirring up trouble as early as they can. Liberals are better than conservatives at seeing when we’re being manipulated, but we’re not totally immune. It’s early, but I can see the race coming down to the two of them, and I can also see Russia, et al, doing everything they can to turn the primaries into a repeat of 2016. I don’t think either of them will play, as they’re both good Democrats and clearly out for what’s best for the nation, but social media can sure get a lot of followers into a raging take-my-ball-and-go-home tizzy.
(Full disclosure: they are the only 2 campaigns I am currently donating to, and they get the exact same amount from me every month, which ain’t much, but you do what you can. I like them both, for some different reasons, but I like them both.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: I like that, and what a contrast with Wilmer and his supporters.
PJ
@Cacti: She doesn’t deny that she was a Republican, and that it was working on bankruptcy issues which brought her her “Damascus” moment. But there’s nothing disingenuous about being registered to one political party and not being particularly politically aware – that’s the majority of Americans. Unlike almost all of the other Democratic candidates, she was not a career politician, and didn’t have a thought of a political career until she was forced out of the CFPB.
If that’s the reason you don’t like her, that’s your business, but you might as well have voted against Obama for praising Ronald Reagan.
Kent
@Cacti: No, I’m not wrong. She has said the last GOP nominee she voted for was Ford. And apparently she also voted against Nixon and for McGovern in 72. You can find that quote in various places like here for example: https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/elizabeth-warren-opens-up-about-her-choices-in-every-presidential-election-since-1972/
HumboldtBlue
Who among this rabble of commenters is the financial expert? I need some help with a retirement account I didn’t know I had.
Cacti
@Another Scott:
Corbyn may be a swell guy on a personal level. But his record of delivering electoral success is pure shit.
If you can’t deliver at the ballot box, it doesn’t matter how nice you are.
SFAW
@Cacti:
In the interest of saving you time and pixels, can I suggest a “form letter” type of response for you to use each time you reply?
“I fucking hate Elizabeth Warren, end of story.”
Because you seem to be pursuing this whole line of “thought” with somewhat more zeal than someone who didn’t hate her might otherwise expend.
Amir Khalid
@schrodingers_cat:
I don’t remember an association with Massachusetts being seen as a problem for Michael Dukakis, John Kerry, or Mitt Romney. Is anyone discounting Warren now because she’s from there?
Elizabelle
@PJ: Yeah, I learned yesterday that Gerald Ford is the last Republican EW supported for president. It was on her wiki page under political affiliation.
Kent
@HumboldtBlue: The absolute best forum for retirement account questions is the boglehead forums. Some very smart financial experts hang out there and are tremendous with these sorts of questions. Go there and ask your retirement questions.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/index.php
rikyrah
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
it does ring true…..
And, like, in general, it’s the older ones who always vote.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
SFAW
@HumboldtBlue:
Well, if you sign it all over to me, I can take care of you
rikyrah
???
I love how Meghan is poised talking about her work and then she talk about Harry and she a come a 15 years old in love lol ???pic.twitter.com/uWJLOeuz8p
— ⭐️ Just Juliette ⭐️ ??????? (@RoyalDetective8) October 1, 2019
HumboldtBlue
@Kent:
Thanks a million, Kent. My father graduated as a double major — finance and economics — and when I called him he couldn’t help but chuckle when I told him I had no clue the account existed. That’s why I’m broke and he’s living large at 87
cain
@Kent:
Oregon had some amazing Republican politicians. They would be considered democrats now.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I liked it too. Her husband kind of blurted it out and they moved on quickly but that’s the thing, right? Winning.That is a big responsibility.
rikyrah
Truth ??
The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) Tweeted:
The subtext of Trump raging about the characterization of his Ukraine call:
*HE* was the person who pushed to release the memo.
If it had been someone else’s idea, he would be insisting the characterization was wrong.
He’s raging against the reaction to *HIS* mistake. https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/1179444932001566722?s=17
Cacti
@PJ:
Uh huh. So she was voting Dem when she was attending Olin Foundation think tank seminars, and penning law review articles on the virtues of utility deregulation,
(cough) Bullshit (cough)
jl
Warren was neck and neck with her incumbent opponent until less than a month before the election, and it was her first race.
Wasn’t clear at all her Senate was a gimme because of liberal Massholes.
rikyrah
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
no surprise there.
zhena gogolia
Late to the thread and I don’t have time for this today, but I find it a little offensive to be labeled an “enemy” of Warren just because I have a few concerns.
We all have our concerns about all of the candidates, I would imagine. That doesn’t make us “enemies.”
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Pompeo is dumb and out of his league. Figures he would use such bone-headed, heavy handed tactics. A dumb, blundering bully. Perfect for this administration.
Cacti
@SFAW:
And maybe you could just save time by replying:
“You never really loved her!”
Since your responses more or less boil down to the above.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
here’s ‘hoping some reporter figures out a way to phrase that to him today> “You’re not being impeached because of the whisltle blower, it’s because of the call summary you released to preempt the whistle blower”
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
She shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die.
It was a Republican, so we’re cool!
She also sold green lumber to build the orphanage and has her own email server. She has a hinged jaw and enjoys mouse fetus snacks.
Kent
@cain: Yes, Governor Tom McCall in the late 60s and early 70s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_McCall and also Senator Wayne Morse who started as a Republican but switched to the Dems during Eisenhower: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Morse
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Yup, none of them are Obama. And I was very late to get on the Obama train
and on the biggest non-trump issue, as I believe Cacti pointed out above: the unpopularity of single payer, aka “eliminating private insurance”, is a mistake all of our front-runners save Biden have at one point or another signed on to, mostly tried to backtrack from, and generally fucked up.
Cacti
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Disagree.
One of the best things about this inquiry is that none of the Trump gang have the sense to know when to STFU. They just keep blurting out new incriminating things every day.
Elizabelle
@Kay: I know. Pompeo really makes me wonder about his class at West Point.
trollhattan
@Kay:
Has West Point ever failed us more than educating First in Class Pompeo? We all know which side he’d have joined in 1861.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
If that’s the case then why do we have to keep batting down these lies flitting around the joint? I smell St Petersburg.
SFAW
@Cacti:
Yeah, nice bullshit comeback. But then again, if you didn’t have bullshit to spew, you might have to think for more than a femtosecond.
After you get done slagging Warren — and anyone else who has the temerity to call bullshit on your “arguments — you can probably see if Brad Parscale can use your prodigious talents. Have fun!
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m interested in the whole “married at 19” thing, too. I don’t think there’s a whole lot of that in the US Senate. You mean…she didn’t take this seamless track from kindergarten to her “rightful” spot among America’s leaders? It’s a different route.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
You don’t?
They were all beaten over the head with it.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@rikyrah:
Thanks. That does tend to be true. We do need to attract infrequent voters and non-voters to win next year, along with turning out the base. This of course isn’t an argument for voting for Warren. I just don’t think Biden is the right man for the job. He’s far too old and frail for my liking. I also don’t like his willingness to work with Republicans considering he got to see GOP obstructionism against Obama first-hand.
I wish Harris was doing better. I like her willingness to go after Trump and talk about corruption (something I like in Warren as well). Biden has done this too, but he acts as if Trump is an aberration and not the logical conclusion of right-wing politics of the last 50 years.
If Biden gets the nom I will of course vote for him and fight for him. I don’t hold any ill-will towards him; I appreciate his time as VP. Hell, I forgave Warren for saying the 2016 primaries were “rigged”, which she has walked back.
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: I am thinking first in his class means he was a weapons grade ass kisser, and may not have sought out the most challenging coursework. It was all about the A.
Clearly, if he passed a course in ethics, he was all about the letter of the law and nothing about the spirit.
Barbara
@HumboldtBlue: Is it a legal issue or a financial issue? Did an employer start a 401k for you without you realizing?
Cacti
@SFAW:
Is what I just saw.
PJ
@jl: For such a liberal state, Massachusetts seems to elect a lot of Republicans statewide: Scott Brown, Charlie Baker, Mitt Romney, Paul Cellucci, William Weld . . .
Nicole
I wanted to share an anecdote from high school that was very formative for me in how I view politics and voting:
I grew up in a very conservative part of PA (on the West Shore of the Susquehanna, which, years after I moved away I found out was nicknamed “the White Shore”). I had an AP History teacher, Mr. Hess (or Brother Hess, as he insisted we call him) who was freaking amazing, and extremely liberal. He took some razzing from our class (especially the guys, it was the rah-rah 1980s, so there you are) when current politics came up, although he always won the arguments because, see above, freaking amazing teacher. One class, someone asked him how he was registered, and he said, “Republican.” And we all lost our collective shit. But he went on to explain that, in our area, there was no Democratic Party to speak of, and if he wanted to have a voice in the local level elections, which, he stressed, were the most important ones in our daily lives, he needed to be able to vote in the primaries (implication being to help the Republican he disliked least go on to the general, since they were likely going to win). Didn’t affect how he voted in the Presidential elections; he felt no loyalty to the GOP.
Probably the single best thing I learned from his class (and I learned lots; he really was a great teacher of American history) – while I can have my opinions of someone’s party affiliation (and I do not support open primaries; I think party members should get to pick their leaders), the only thing that matters, ultimately, is how one votes. The mother of my best friend is a Republican, but she voted for Clinton in 2016 (in Florida!). Compare her to the Democrats who voted for Jill Stein (I SEE YOU SUSAN SARANDON THANKS A LOT FOR RUINING “BULL DURHAM” FOR ME).
Another Scott
@Cacti: It seems like just about every major politician is having trouble “delivering” in the UK. May and BoJo haven’t done so well, either.
Who, specifically, would be better running Labour now?
Cheers,
Scott.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Cacti:
You still haven’t addressed my comment to you. Is it because you know you can’t? Because it’s true?
glory b
@Cacti: I know. right? I asked the same thing. It’s hard to understand how she sells herself as being supersmart, but never seemed to notice her former party’s racism? She was still a republican after Lee Atwater’s famous speech, where he gave away the dog whistle.
Barbara
@Cacti: You think Vermont and California are going to be safer and more strategic than Massachusetts?
Kay
@trollhattan:
A lot of elite institutions have taken a real beating in Trumpworld. Why should West Point be any different?
Kent
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This makes me want to fucking scream. Even current Medicare isn’t single payer public insurance. About 1/3 of current medicare recipients are on Medicare Advantage which is private insurance. And there are also private Medigap insurance plans that work with Medicare. Sander’s “Medicare for All” is nothing of the sort. It is a completely new program that would completely upend existing Medicare and outlaw private insurance (by prohibiting providers who take Medicare from taking other private insurance) . Sander’s plan shouldn’t even be called Medicare at all.
cain
@Cacti:
Why not? A lot of people might stick to a party but still change their voting patterns because they aren’t very political to begin with. It takes an event or a series of events that challenges them to want to go through the process of changing their affiliation. People absorb information and act on them at different rates. I was an independent until the end of Bush 2’s first term and then switched from unaffiliated to Democrats because I saw that the Republican party had gone off the rails and it required active and forceful participation.
Nicole
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
It’s still really early. That’s the other thing I hate about social media, for all that I’m on it a lot, is that it rushes us into thinking a candidate needs to get this wrapped up now. There’s still time.
Cacti
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
I didn’t see your comment.
So it would be answer C: you’re just not that important to me.
JR
@rikyrah: He is surely a republican right?
HumboldtBlue
@SFAW:
Check is on the way!
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: Oh absolutely. You can see its tentacles here.
Which is not to say that people could choose to just plain not like EW, or prefer someone else. But the responses were visceral, and that is what interests me. And reasons given …. pretty damn thin, quite honestly.
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
When, and by whom?
Cacti
@cain:
And she continued the subterfuge by writing Reaganomics-friendly law review articles, while being a registered Republican, but secretly voting Democrat?
That seems…fantastic.
Kent
Can someone explain for me why the fact that EW was once a Republican is going to be a liability in the General Election with swing voters and anyone who is possibly still on the fucking fence about Trump?
cain
@SFAW:
I think it’s more explained by the fact that he must win the argument regardless than anything else.
HumboldtBlue
@Barbara:
I am unsure at the moment, but there are some issues regarding my employment timeframe because I worked at one place twice with a 12-year-gap in between. I sense that is at the heart of the matter. I have reached out to people I trust locally as well as my pop. This isn’t a disaster in any way, just another example of my complete and utter financial illiteracy.
And for someone in my current position it’s a healthy chunk of change.
Elizabelle
@Nicole: I agree. Social media and twitter are not the world.
You can watch Obama’s trajectory there. He became a real contender after South Carolina, and benefited tremendously from the realization he could draw white support (hello Iowa).
There is still plenty of time. Heck, we could have President Pelosi by the time Super Tuesday arrives, given the warp speed of the whack lately.
PJ
@glory b: How many registered Republican voters do you think actually knew at the time who Lee Atwater was? Most people in this country have no idea who is running a political party, let alone what their death-bed statements are. At best, they probably know who the President is, and who their Governor and Senators are. They probably don’t even know who their US Representative is.
Elizabelle
@Kent: I know. And they’re putting up that argument on John Fucking Cole’s blog! The cognitive dissonance there …
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
We ignore the reality of what occurred in 2016 with social media at our peril. This playbook, where new “talking points” appear all at once to come from multiple directions, is precisely how they played us. People actually came to participate in imaginary protests. Have we forgotten?
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Cacti:
Ah. I see. You’re being obnoxious to troll
@Nicole:
Yeah. I keep forgetting that.
Elizabelle
@Nicole: Exactly. Some people try to stay in to try to influence their organization going off the rails. That could be true for both the Republican party and the Catholic Church. Up to a point.
Until they became such kneejerk Hannity/Rush reactionaries, you might have had some voice in the GOP as a moderate.
I am glad to hear of your history teacher, Brother Hess. Sounds like a remarkable guy.
He’s right. Vote your conscience. Not someone else’s.
Kent
@Elizabelle: I don’t even understand the argument. Is it that she is still somehow a stealth Republican sleeper agent and is going to come out for more tax cuts for the rich and repealing Obamacare as soon as she is elected? Otherwise, this is 2020. who gives a fuck about supporting Ford in the 1970s. Everyone has a past. Even Sanders who was apparently as big USSR fanboy in the 1960s when millions were in the gulags.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Sample 2004 ad against Kerry
Gingrich on Romney in the 2012 GOP primary
Bush attacking Dukakis throughout the campaign as a soft on crime, Massachusetts liberal
cain
@Cacti:
Bet I could find a person who registered as a Democrat who also supports Reaganomics.
Funny thing, when I’m in the U.S. I’m a liberal, when I’m in India, I’m a conservative and agree with every stupid trope Republicans say about big govt when I”m there. The kind of shit people put up there drives me insane, it’s why I was also an independent not allowing one side get advantage over the other.
You can hold multiple beliefs some that might be at odds with each other, it just depends on circumstances.
Cacti
@Kent:
You do know she’s running on repeal and replace, right?
Elizabelle
@trollhattan: I know. It’s frightening me and setting off alarms. At least we know this time.
Here’s the response I originally had to your comment about St. Petersberg. I changed it to something more conciliatory, but saved it ….
I really pick up derision at white women in a lot of posts here. It is something to be aware of. And why is it so strong, now?
Nicole
One thing Warren is doing, that every other candidate should be doing also, RIGHT NOW, is the calling small donors and posing for pictures with every single person who shows up at rallies. And if they already are doing that, then they should get out and do more rallies, and make more phone calls, and tweet them all. The thing social media has done is given the impression that it’s broken down the wall between the average person and the celebrity (my husband is on cloud nine this week because James Gunn, the director of the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, liked a response he made to one of Gunn’s tweets). By making these calls, and standing in line for four hours so everyone gets a picture with her, Warren is creating the image of herself as someone who is accessible. Whether she is or not, I don’t know (I’m not naive about politicians) but the impression is accessibility. And image is a lot.
Hillary Clinton, to all accounts, was actually pretty accessible as a Senator, to her constituents, but that’s not the image that came across during the campaign (note: I LOVE Clinton, and Harris got big points in my book for that excellent tweet she posted about Clinton this weekend, so I’m not dissing Clinton; social media is at an even different place now than it was in 2016). Image is a lot. And “accessible” is a good image for a candidate.
Cacti
@Elizabelle:
Really?
Only just yesterday we had multiple commenters expressing their sympathy for the nice white lady cop who murdered Botham Jean in his living room, and hoping that she got a lenient sentence, because it was her first murder.
WTF?
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
Yes, but did it take? Did their ties to Massachusetts actually make them lose support? Have you evidence of that? Because that’s what I would consider as a sign they were “beaten over the head” with it.
??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??
@Cacti:
This is completely disingenuous. This is not the same as the GOP repeal and replace plan of “Die Quickly If You Get Sick”
Nicole
@cain:
I have a family member who is STILL registered Democratic, even though he last voted for a Democratic President in 1976. And thinks he gets his news from “both sides” because in addition to Fox News, he also reads The Drudge Report. I wish I was making this up.
Elizabelle
@Nicole: It says a lot about stamina and priorities too.
And listening. Wouldn’t you bet those selfie folks are talking to Elizabeth Warren about their concerns, or at least answering her questions?
It’s better than listening to focus groups. Talk to the folks who cared enough to come out.
PS: That is so cool about your husband and James Gunn. Woohoo.
Nicole
@Cacti:
I admit I totally missed those. Can you cut and paste them here? I’d really like to see them because that’s crazy pants.
Barbara
@HumboldtBlue: Not giving you advice, but if it’s a 401k with an employer that you no longer work for you can most likely roll it over into an IRA, if you want to manage it yourself (and by that I mean, decide which company to park the money in, which could include Vanguard and Fidelity). I can’t remember whether you can combine it with an existing IRA, or whether you need to establish a new IRA vehicle. There are also circumstances where you can roll over one 401k into another, if you are satisfied with your current 401k plan. If you inherit an IRA (like I did from my mother), it would be treated very differently, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the situation.
I wouldn’t stress over not knowing about it. Leaving it alone to grow has a lot to be said for it, but if it’s just in the equivalent of a money market you probably want to transfer it at least to an index fund.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Amir, I presume that you have access to google. In which case, I’d say look up “massachusetts liberal” its relation to the named candidates, and how they fared in their national elections.
Elizabelle
@Cacti: that is not what I was speaking of. Further, I think that was about 2 to 3 commenters, and they were hardly in favor of shooting unarmed people.
Nice attempt at deflection there, pal.
SFAW
@Cacti:
You need eyeglasses, I guess. Or new ones, if you already have them.
But, it appears “I know you are, but what am I?” is your go-to response. Outstanding.
Barbara
@Cacti: Yeah, no, that interpretation is, ummm, rather debatable.
ruemara
@Elizabelle: Derision. Oh, boy.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Cacti: I’m still a registered Republican.
I like that they waste their money sending me shit.
Cacti
@??? Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) ??:
It’s entirely true. Elizabeth Warren wants to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act with the Bernie Sanders plan.
If she sticks to this position, it will cost us the election. Eliminating private insurance has 41% public support.
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
No. You made the claim, you bring the evidence.
HumboldtBlue
@Barbara:
That’s pretty much what my dad said and the letter gives me a few options including the rollover to an IRA which is what I am aiming for.
Thank you for your input I just hope I don’t screw this up.
I am currently following Kent’s advice and have posted my questions to bogleheads as well.
Gravenstone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The cognitive dissonance required of the contemporary Republican rank and file voter could generate an endless array of graduate theses, should any future students be so motivated.
JoeyJoeJoe
@cain:
Former representative Carolyn McCarthy was a registered Republican and remained a registered republican even after her predecessor Dan Frisa voted for an assault weapon ban repeal and she ran for Congress against him as a Democrat. Her family were victims in the LIRR shootings for anyone who remembers that. Some people just take a long time to change. Lots of conservative southerners remained Democrats even as they were voting republican too
Elizabelle
@ruemara: Yes. Derision. And a lot of it is from your direction, very honestly. It surprised me.
Cacti
@Nicole:
Only 9 comments in:
Gravenstone
@NotMax: Could you imagine the Trumplosion if he’s removed from office on a secret ballot in the Senate? He’s probably stroke out then and there!
SFAW
@HumboldtBlue:
Thanks. I plan to put it into an S&P 500 index fund.
Nicole
@Elizabelle:
Eh, full disclosure, as someone who ended up at the back of the line for selfies THREE TIMES (the organization, not the best it was, but as we were all reassured we would get a picture, it was okay), by the time I got there the volunteers were rushing us through, and I could tell she had game face on (as someone who has been a performer and has known many performers, I am exquisitely tuned in to game face) but it didn’t matter (I don’t think anyone could possibly last for four hours of smiling and posing without resorting to game face. I’ve had the chance to walk the red carpet a couple of times in my life and after 30 seconds I wanted to go home). It was the fact that whether she was excited to do it or not, she stayed so thousands of people got their photo. That resonated with me, because I can’t afford a hundred dollars to hear someone speak. And, of course, those who were in the front of the line may have had a different experience.
However, she did tweet the next day about all the notes she’d been passed during the line, and read some of them aloud, which was BRILLIANT. We’ll see how she does if/when the media perceives her as the clear frontrunner and goes after her, but she’s campaigning very smart right now.
But again, IT’S EARLY.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Amir, it’s not my job to educate you on what you don’t know or understand about U.S. politics.
Cacti
@Elizabelle:
Oh noes.
Are the black women oppressing you?
Marcopolo
@Nicole: Yeah, I thought it was telling (and also genuine) that when she was asked about “how hard it must be to be standing around for four hours” to do photos after her NYC speech her first response was, well the last fellow who took a photo with me also was waiting for four hours. I really do think that through her words & actions she is consistently let us know she is thinking about all of us not just herself.
Nicole
@Cacti: Oh my God. That’s ridonkulous. I would be curious to see how BruceFromOhio feels now that her social media life is being made public and it’s just as terrible as one might expect.
Slate has a good article today about how the fact that the jury was majority minority is probably why she got the guilty verdict AND that juries with more minorities on them tend to be, at the same time, more objective and more empathetic in their deliberating. Better decisions get made.
Elizabelle
@Cacti: Fuck off. I have my reasons and evidence for saying that.
the Conster
@ruemara:
I mean, I’m a lifelong Democratic white woman from Mass. with questions about Warren’s judgment because I spent 8 years of Reagan screaming at the TV from the kitchen with 2 little kids who to this day can remember what I called him. It’s insulting to assume I don’t know what I’m talking about and must be under the influence of right wing propaganda because I don’t actually trust her judgment and Wilmer adjacency and support for repealing and replacing Obamacare, so I’m obviously dumb for taking cues from the polling out of the early primary states THAT ARE DIVERSE. Warren stans are starting to annoy me as much as Wilmer’s.
Barbara
@HumboldtBlue: The most important part of “rolling over” an account is to do it all at once as soon as possible. You can roll it over into a shell account and then decide where to invest it.
Cacti
@Nicole:
It was also reported yesterday that the prosecution plans to use her disciplinary history in her DPD file as an aggravating factor at sentencing.
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
I am not demanding you teach me about American poitics. You made a claim of fact, that being associated with Massachusetts harmed three Democratic candidates for president. You did not offer evidence. I was inviting you to put up or, you know.
Chyron HR
@Cacti:
So by “multiple commenters” you mean that one guy that everybody else immediately called an asshole? Okay.
Nicole
@Cacti:
Good. I think I saw a headline about it and recall it saying she’s had more than one incident in her five years as a cop.
dlwchico
@dmsilev: Yes, as of a few weeks ago they still want to avoid any attention from the CFPB.
Elizabelle
@the Conster:
I can help you with that. It’s because the stabs against EW are always from rightwing talking points, and extraordinarily similar to our experience with Bernie Bros too.
It is defensive, very honestly. I hear that you have some very legitimate concerns, I do get that, but you couch them in RW talking points, which is exactly what happened in that thread yesterday.
I support our Democratic candidates. (That excludes Wilmer and Tulsi and who knows if Marianne Williamson is still in.) I feel protective of them. The MSM is going to absolutely tear out their guts, with the aid of RW talking points, always in abundance. So it’s sad to see that already happening here.
It is really more trying to be fair than being a “stan.” (Although guilty there.)
If you can find anything awful I have said about the actual Democrats, please cough it up. I’ve said Biden is a placeholder. I still think that. I was also glad as the mini mes with vanity campaigns began falling by the wayside.
SFAW
@HumboldtBlue:
You probably already know this, but make sure it rolls over directly, without it ever touching your (literal or figurative) hands. If the current account sends you a check, instead of doing a direct rollover, you’ll probably get a significant chunk taken out for taxes.
The above assumes it’s currently in a 401(k) or similar.
Also: caveat emptor: I am not a financial person. But I had to do what I just described, five or ten years ago.
Cacti
@Amir Khalid:
Actually, it was 2 Democrats and 1 Republican.
Being from Massachusetts is not seen as a point in a national politician’s favor here. JFK overcame it. Before him, our last POTUS who claimed Massachusetts as his home state was John Quincy Adams in 1829.
The other three nominees from Massachusetts for POTUS all lost, and 2 of 3 by large margins. All were regularly derided for their Massachusetts connections, which is political slang for effete, snooty, out of touch, etc. If you actually followed the national elections here in 1988, 2004, and 2012, but didn’t notice, I can only conclude that you weren’t listening, or you don’t understand the subtleties of national politics here.
I gave you quick examples of each, which you dismissed for…reasons, and now you want me to…rehash the entire history of 3 separate Presidential elections? Nope. Do your own homework.
Marcopolo
@Elizabelle: Does anyone use the pie filter anymore? It has definitely improved my BJ experience over the years.
Elizabelle
@Marcopolo: I use it. Happily, you can peek under the piecrust with a little set of brackets under the clever pie comment.
And cacti is definitely flirting with pie status, but sometimes you want to learn what the RW and conventional wisdom talking points are.
Cacti
@Chyron HR:
No, smart person. I was showing that it took less than 10 comments for someone on this liberal blog to go week at the knees for a nice white lady who just happened to murder a black man in his home.
Since you can respond, I presume you’re not illiterate, and can read the remaining posts, including some tut-tutting of our African American commenters who expressed support for a long sentence.
Why are you expecting me to hand hold you through the rest? Are you a millennial?
Fair Economist
@the Conster: Warren voted against Reagan both times – including for Mondale. Why is your low opinion of Reagan a reason to dislike her?
the Conster
@Elizabelle:
The *right wing talking points* you reference are legitimate questions about her entire life story and it’s going on on the left. There remains a lot of resentment in certain circles about her appropriation of a culture that she had no right to claim, regardless of her explanation, and regardless of the apologies which she didn’t make until it caught up with her, and allowing herself to be baited by DT which was dumb. I also really resent her throwing in her lot with Michael Moore and Putin stooge Sanders in the town halls, where Russian interference was basically treated as a laughable *distraction* from all the *economic anxiety* the working class is experiencing.
All that said, if she emerges from the early primaries with a commanding lead, I’ll vote for her. I just won’t in the Mass. primary.
Cacti
All these comments in, and still no member of the Warren pompom squad has a good answer for the issues of political judgment that I, and others have raised.
Your move.
Elizabelle
@Cacti:
Hardly. Bruce is not here to defend himself, but I think it was more along the lines of she’d ruined her life. Which is a human response and a tad out of place when you remember Botham Jean has NO life any more. No breath. He’s 6 feet under.
I don’t recall concerns about leniency in sentencing. Maybe they were there. I think 98% of the comments were sheer relief that finally a cop was being held responsible for murder (not manslaughter!).
And there is the very real question of whether a white MALE cop would have drawn the same verdict.
the Conster
@Fair Economist:
I just explained why. Her praxis is and was markets.
Elizabelle
@the Conster: Fair enough.
No candidate or person is all things to all voters.
ETA: I also hope the fucking left of left does not endanger another winnable election. There is no pleasing some of those asshats.
Cacti
@Elizabelle:
And there you go. Still trying to make the nice white lady murderer a victim of something.
I truly hope that our black female commenters will stop oppressing you.
Elizabelle
@Cacti: That’s a very twisted response. I think it’s a legitimate concern that women and men are treated differently. It’s not victimizing someone who murdered a man in his own home in cold blood.
You are a nasty bit of work today, aren’t you?
HumboldtBlue
@SFAW:
I have good advisors and I have learned that lesson in the past as well. Thanks so much for your input and I lied about the check.
Gravenstone
@Cacti: Have you ever tried not being a dick, just to see if you can manage it?
Cacti
@Elizabelle:
Funny you should mention that.
That’s actually the main concern that we Warren doubters have about her.
Gravenstone
@Cacti: And he promptly got slagged for saying as much. But thanks for playing, dick.
the Conster
@Elizabelle:
The issue isn’t whether they’ll vote for her – they will. The issue is whether they’ll defend her, donate to her and work for her.
opiejeanne
@jl: Yes. l was voting a straight Democratic ticket for many years before I moved to WA but I was still a registered Republican until then. It seemed like a huge deal to change my party even if I hated what they had become by 1980. In WA you don’t register by party but I did have to profess that I was a Democrat in order to participate in the primary process.
Elizabelle
@the Conster: All hands on deck, Conster. 2016 was the ugliest lesson I have ever seen.
Their peril.
The one good quote I’ve ever heard from Mitch McConnell: “There is no education in the second kick of a mule.”
Learn up, donkeys.
ETA: It’s allegedly originally a Mark Twain quote. Thought it might be Abraham Lincoln.
PJ
@Cacti: So everybody should be rooting for Beto, right? A centrist Texan is bound to get elected over a left wing Masshole, right?
Dukakis didn’t lose because he was from Massachusetts. Kerry didn’t lose because he was from Massachusetts. They lost because they didn’t effectively counter Republican attacks. Romney, from Massachusetts, was not a liberal (certainly not compared to Obama), and he lost because Obama was more popular and ran a better campaign.
Al Gore (from Tennessee) and Hillary Clinton (from New York) were also branded as out-of-touch liberal elitists, but that isn’t why they lost their elections. They were stolen from them.
Any Democratic candidate is going to be painted as weak, out-of-touch, elitist, intellectual, wind-surfing, Wall Street friendly, anti-capitalist – no matter how stupid or contradictory, Republicans will throw out anything and see what sticks, and then they’ll hammer on what sticks.
But if you think the best candidate is the one who best represents what the media presents as “centrist America”, you know, beer-swilling, Trans Am friendly, a little touchy-feely but it’s ok because he’s like your great uncle, you should be supporting Biden (who neither drinks nor owns a Trans Am).
Elizabelle
@Cacti: But wouldn’t that happen with Biden or Harris too? There is just no pleasing some people.
It’s not a Starbucks order, voters.
Nicole
@PJ:
But, but, but, how will I know if I wanna have a beer with him then?
Elizabelle
@Nicole: I always loved how people — including pundits and TV gabbers — would say that, seriously, about former alcoholic George W Bush. Absolutely no recognition of that.
Chris Johnson
The weird thing about Balloon Juice is how you’d swear there are open Russian shitposters punching a timeclock to beat up on whoever Putin says needs beating, and instead it’s a lot like the Republican voter problem: they profess outrageous stuff and then ‘oh, but MY congresscritter is OK, I respect her service’.
People build their worldviews on the craziest shit. Sometimes it takes a sledgehammer to knock ’em loose. For Cole, it took Terri Schiavo. The worrying truth (one that Mark Zuckerberg knows real well) is that humans form strong, vehement opinions on foundations of sand and anecdote, and then use their minds to JUSTIFY these assumptions, and that’s what gets ’em the most strident and combative.
So you get people (for instance old Democratic partisans on Balloon Juice) inside your big tent, being legitimately Dems, but at some point in their lives they learned that ‘Capitalism is the only salvation for humanity’ or ‘the wealthy are more virtuous and generous than impoverished people’ or ‘people love their health insurance and America has the best health care in the world’, and you’ll see them lashing out to defend the wobbling of their pet assumptions, the ones they’re not happy to question.
In some ways I trust the apostates more, like Cole, Warren et al. I trusted Bernie in the 2015 primaries and feel like I got taken advantage of, and now I’m Warren/Harris/is-there-another-female-that’s-good? in 2019. But I don’t think people frenziedly sandbagging Warren, or ‘Medicare for all’ (sounds like you would need a plan for that or it would be worthless), are automatically Russian trolls. They’ve been listening to Russian trolls, because we are all listening to them constantly, especially if you ever see Twitter or Facebook. But they’re not necessarily the Russkis themselves, just because they are acting like Russian trolls.
And if they are, they’re probably makin’ more than I do, so rock on with your Moscow selves ;)
Omnes Omnibus
@Chris Johnson: Sanders has never been a Democrat. And as a lifelong Democrat, I don’t really give two shits who you trust. Just for the record.
opiejeanne
@Cacti: Wow! That was unnecessarily nasty.
the Conster
@Chris Johnson:
We know what Russian trolls sound like, and are attempting to do. It was Sanders and Warren who pushed the *primaries were rigged* active measures. She walked it back, belatedly, but that was her first real failure of judgment as far as I’m concerned. The Sanders campaign was boosted by the Russians according to the Mueller Report, and Warren as far as I can tell has ignored it, and because she wants his supporters, has laughed it off. The other candidates haven’t brought it up to Sanders face either though, and I don’t understand it. I guess no one wants his flying monkeys after them to harass, threaten and doxx them.
chopper
@PJ:
i guess centrism just really revs some people’s engines. i especially like biden’s claims that the GOP is just itching to ‘shift back to normalcy’ after trump.
cain
I remember the good ol days when we’d put a gif of “Chill the fuck out,..”
I wish you people would stop fighting amongst yourselves. The only thing we all need to agree on is that we’re voting for the Democratic candidate for President of the United States. I don’t give a fig about why you pick one candidate over another.
Front page : “Commentariats in disarray!”
I just have this vision of Cole reading the comments with Steve on his laugh giggling.
SFAW
@HumboldtBlue:
Stunned, I am.
Good luck, by the way.
Amir Khalid
@Cacti:
You mentioned Massachusetts as a talking point but didn’t show that it was effective, that there was some animus against Massachusetts politicians that was exploited. So you haven’t proven your claim.
SFAW
@Amir Khalid:
That appears to be his modus operandi:
1) Make a dubious/ridiculous claim, usually a provocative one, with little or no evidence.
2) Someone calls him out for it, he goes into attack mode
3) Eventually he provide some bit of “evidence” — one which usually does not fully address his claim, and in some cases refutes it (by inference)
4) When someone points out that his “evidence” is not what he claimed it to be, he goes back into attack mode, and says the responders have the burden of proof
5) Mis-characterizes the responses, or outright lies about what was said/written
6) Finds a new “claim” to focus on — without having proved his original “claim” — and start the process all over again
I expect I’ve left out a detail or two, but that’s because I’m a moron, most likely, or perhaps a neoliberal shill
the Conster
@Amir Khalid:
Massachusetts liberals are eggheaded elites, smarter, more educated and self righteously better than you who knows what’s good for you and will make sure you get it for your own good, plus you get abortions and civil rights shoved down your throat.
That’s what it means to be a liberal Democrat from Massachusetts.
Dave
I attended Senator Warren’s town hall this evening (Oct 2nd) in Carson City, Nevada, where I live. She confirmed why she’s been my top choice on the primaries for some time now. Her story of her personal and family history growing up is so similar to mine it brought me to tears. She is whip smart, compassionate and tough. She will slice and dice the orange shitgibbon like a diesel powered vegamatic when the debates come (I’m hoping for a Warren/Harris ticket). She has the smarts, the character, the vision and the organizational skills to get the job done. Very impressive. There were over 1,500 in attendance, while Joe Biden drew only 700 in Reno, speaking at almost the same time. Carson City is about 40,000 population, still pretty red, while Reno is over 250,000 and very purple. I think she’s going to chew Biden up and spit him out.