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You are here: Home / Past Elections / 2020 Elections / Let’s Say You Wanted To Destabilize Half a Dozen Countries All at Once…

Let’s Say You Wanted To Destabilize Half a Dozen Countries All at Once…

by Adam L Silverman|  September 30, 20198:26 pm| 136 Comments

This post is in: 2020 Elections, America, Election 2016, Foreign Affairs, Open Threads, Politics, Silverman on Security, The Trump Doctrine

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If you wanted to bring down the governments of, at least, 3 of the 5 Five Eyes countries (US, UK, AUS) and several other western (Italy) and western oriented (Ukraine) governments, what has been reported on today would be a good way to do it. You’ve got at least five legitimacy crises being created by this that will at the very least weaken the stability of the governments in each state. I really do wonder what is on the transcripts of the calls between the President and Putin that have been stashed in the National Security Council’s Directorate of Intelligence’s code word access only computer system.

Open thread!

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Reader Interactions

136Comments

  1. 1.

    BruceFromOhio

    September 30, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    NATO scared the shit out of them almost as badly as the Nazi’s. You don’t get over that easily.

  2. 2.

    Frank Wilhoit

    September 30, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    Remember that the Israelis {probably?} have full audio of all of Trump’s calls.

  3. 3.

    geg6

    September 30, 2019 at 8:30 pm

    Yup. Those have to be LIT.

  4. 4.

    Mnemosyne

    September 30, 2019 at 8:31 pm

    Putin bet that Western elites were just as greedy and venal as he thought they were. And he was right.

  5. 5.

    Cheryl Rofer

    September 30, 2019 at 8:32 pm

    OTOH, never attribute to Putin what can adequately be explained by Trump’s narcissism.

  6. 6.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:33 pm

    @Frank Wilhoit: I seem to remember a front page post about it somewhere…

  7. 7.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:34 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: My guess is that Putin just strung him along by playing to that narcissism about the election and the investigation. He didn’t have to do anything but be a sympathetic ear and an encouraging voice.

  8. 8.

    Cheryl Rofer

    September 30, 2019 at 8:38 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: It’s possible. My preference for parsimony in explanations minimizes Putin, although a nudge here and a suspicion there are certainly consistent with the way a KGB man would play it.

  9. 9.

    Fair Economist

    September 30, 2019 at 8:40 pm

    It may have started as an attempt to destabilize several of the Western countries but it has moved on to an effort to gain control, if that wasn’t already a stretch goal from the start. We are seeing the same playbook of a combination of crooked investigations plus social media manipulation plus complicit MSM plus brownshirt-style violent irregulars to put neofascists in power from Hungary to Turkey to Brazil to the Philippines to the US to India to Italy. That is now the goal, and mere disruption the fallback goal.

  10. 10.

    TaMara (HFG)

    September 30, 2019 at 8:41 pm

    Well, great. Now I’m not going to sleep well tonight.

  11. 11.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 8:41 pm

    So that leaves Canada and New Zealand.

  12. 12.

    Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    September 30, 2019 at 8:41 pm

    I still have hope that we’re going to learn what they said to each other, especially now that it’s clear that he’s circling the bowl. I guess there are fucks dumb enough to go to jail for this clown, but there can’t be that many. Shit. With enough time, even Michael Cohen worked out whose side this guy is on. My guess is that a whole lot of people who know all kinds of shit are a lot less dumb than Cohen is.

  13. 13.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:43 pm

    @Cheryl Rofer: No real disagreements between us on this.

  14. 14.

    Leto

    September 30, 2019 at 8:43 pm

    If I knew how to link it I would, but Colbert’s Tonight Show FB page has a part of tonight’s interview with HRC and Chelsea up where they just learn about Pompeo being on the call with Ukraine and it’s glorious.

  15. 15.

    NotMax

    September 30, 2019 at 8:43 pm

    code word access only computer system

    Strictly entre nous, password is stablegenius1.

    Either that or covfefe.
    ;)

  16. 16.

    JPL

    September 30, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    Nothing to see here

    Just in: Sebastian Gorka is traveling with @SecPompeo to Europe, @Abs_NBC reports. He was seen getting into a State Department van headed to Joint Base Andrews for departure

  17. 17.

    jl

    September 30, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    in fairness, wasn’t the UK doing a good job on itself, starting a year or so before Trump was elected?

  18. 18.

    geg6

    September 30, 2019 at 8:46 pm

    Since it’s an open thread, I have a recommendation for all the biography lovers out there. I got Chernow’s Grant biography about a year ago but have avoided picking it up until recently. This partly due to its massive size being a little intimidating and partly because I can’t seem to concentrate on anything this deep in the midst of this crazy timeline we are stuck in right now. But when I couldn’t take another minute of current events the other day, I picked it up. I thought I knew the broad outlines of his life but I really was ignorant of the full story. What a fascinating, contradictory man who has truly been inspirational to read about. I’ve read other Chernow works but this is a real masterpiece of the genre. Just got through the battle at Shiloh and the contrast with our current generals and president is just too apparent. He had his flaws and he wasn’t perfect or from an American aristocratic family but he was brave and humble and brilliant in many ways. He was the epitome of what Americans should strive for, a true patriot and hero. I can’t recommend it enough as an antidote to the current poison infecting this country.

  19. 19.

    clay

    September 30, 2019 at 8:47 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: “Da, Mr. President, of course your election victory was one of the biggest victories in world history!…. What’s that?…. Nyet, of course we did not interfere with the election…. that is deepstate fakenews…. Well, I cannot say for certain, but our intelligence suggests that the Ukraine might know something about email severs…. da, da, MAGA.”

  20. 20.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:48 pm

    @TaMara (HFG): You’re welcome.

  21. 21.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Did you find anything to that report I sent you this morning?

  22. 22.

    Timurid

    September 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    At this point they have two choices:

    1. Go full authoritarian. Refuse to give up the call records or any other information. Order government employees not to cooperate with Congress, even if subpoenaed. Threaten private citizens who are asked to cooperate. Manufacture more bogus investigations of enemies in government and the media (as with the ongoing Clinton email probe). Use the Justice Department as their bunker. Incite violence by non-state actors. Manufacture a war or other crisis.

    2. Quit.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    September 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: So what’s with Gorka traveling with Pompeo. Do they just not care anymore.

    Maybe they never did

  24. 24.

    Mary G

    September 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    Bet the Dutch, who were so good at hacking the Russians, aren’t sharing anything now.

  25. 25.

    Al Z.

    September 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    Random stuff

  26. 26.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:50 pm

    @clay: How were you able to get the transcript out of that classified system so fast. You better call Congressman Schiff ASAP!

  27. 27.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 8:52 pm

    Bagdad Bobs

    Jim Acosta @ Acosta
    Aides to Trump are warning him he faces the real likelihood of being impeached. Some of those conversations occurred on Friday as Trump met with his impeachment team, we’ve learned. Advisers are divided over subject as some are reassuring Trump that Pelosi is just placating Dems.

    I wonder if Kellyanne is quietly negotiating her next move with Lachlan Murdoch

  28. 28.

    JPL

    September 30, 2019 at 8:52 pm

    @Timurid: Well he’s not gonna pick two, so buckle up .

  29. 29.

    NotMax

    September 30, 2019 at 8:52 pm

    @Mary G

    Fancy Deplorable Bear.

    ;)

  30. 30.

    patrick II

    September 30, 2019 at 8:53 pm

    @geg6:

    Just got through the battle at Shiloh and the contrast with our current generals and president is just too apparent.

    Pompeo finishing first in his class at West Point has given me second thoughts about the abilities of our general officers as a whole.

  31. 31.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:53 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I haven’t had a chance to look around, but I haven’t seen anything in the normal places. Let me do some poking around and I’ll be back with you shortly.

    For everyone else wondering what this is about, I have just three words for you: Need To Know.//

  32. 32.

    trollhattant

    September 30, 2019 at 8:55 pm

    @geg6:
    I’m at his reelection [whoops, spoiler alert!]. The political era portion doesn’t sizzle like his military period, but damn, has my opinion of the man risen. His main flaw seems to have been trusting folks who did not deserve it. His own scruples were beyond reproach.

    It’s a great book of great size.

  33. 33.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 30, 2019 at 8:56 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks. Not meaning to give you work if you’re otherwise busy (I can’t afford your standard rate), just thought it might intrigue you.

  34. 34.

    Leto

    September 30, 2019 at 8:56 pm

    @geg6: I’ll definitely keep an eye out for it in the 2nd hand book store. Thanks!

    Edit: @trollhattant: this right here, exactly why we need spoiler tags!!!

  35. 35.

    The Dangerman

    September 30, 2019 at 8:56 pm

    I really do wonder what is on the transcripts of the calls between the President and Putin…

    Fond(le) memories of Pee Pee Tapes?

  36. 36.

    Leto

    September 30, 2019 at 8:59 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: well here’s four letter for you: FOIA! :P

  37. 37.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 8:59 pm

    @Mary G: Ah, the Dutch.

    Thinking about how the Dutch police arrested a bird for taking part in a robbery, put it in a jail cell with bread and water & when the media reported on it they put a little black bar over the face to protect its identity pic.twitter.com/2ly0zsoAw6— Emma (@CampbellxEmma) September 29, 2019

    You can see the picture in the tweet. Article is in next tweet if you click through.

  38. 38.

    chris

    September 30, 2019 at 8:59 pm

    @JPL: IIRC Gorka never got a security clearance. Something very sketchy here.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    September 30, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    @The Dangerman

    Oddly enough, 90 minutes of knock knock jokes.

  40. 40.

    Bex

    September 30, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    @geg6: Do you think LMM might be interested?

  41. 41.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:01 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: All I can find is the Kyiv Post summary that links to the Unian article, which links to the original Norwegian language paper article. And, of course, the Russian denials. But that’s it, no other reporting. Almost no one I’ve ever heard of has linked to any of the articles about it. Though this one journalist I’ve seen before basically says he’s heard or seen nothing from his sources:

    First of all, if this turns out to be true it's an act of war by #Russia.

    I haven't heard any rumors of Russian Special Forces operating within a @NATO country in a long time.

    Running illegals is one thing, but running SOF ops in the wild is a whole another level.#Norway https://t.co/AjgcS73Dtv

    — Petri Mäkelä (@pmakela1) September 27, 2019

  42. 42.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:02 pm

    @JPL: I honestly have no idea. The Blue Footed Boobie of Budapest and I do not communicate.

  43. 43.

    JWR

    September 30, 2019 at 9:02 pm

    For all the radio folks here, Ian Masters’ “Background Briefing” was pretty damn good today. (Link is to the homepage.) Here’s today’s lineup:

    “Authoritarians Are Never More Dangerous Than When Vulnerable” with Ruth Ben Ghiat, then,

    “As Trump’s Roy Cohn Barr Gets Him Out of Trouble, Giuliani Gets Him into More Trouble” with Casey Michel, and finally,

    “The Contrast Between Whistleblowers like Reality Winner and the So-Called “Adults in the Room”” with Will Bunch

    Archives are there for the plundering! Yesterday he had Alexander Butterfield, he of the Nixon taping system fame. One hour of fun!

  44. 44.

    zhena gogolia

    September 30, 2019 at 9:03 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Shana tovah!

  45. 45.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:03 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Rebekah Mercer. She works for Rebekah Mercer.

  46. 46.

    Jeffro

    September 30, 2019 at 9:03 pm

    If your goal is to cause chaos in the Western democracies, with everything else potentially as a bonus, bribing a few public officials and newspaper editors isn’t the hardest thing in the world. A helluva a lot cheaper than a tank division too.

  47. 47.

    Jeffro

    September 30, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    @Fair Economist: I’m certain that Putin, Xi, and MBS have been astonished to see how easily and how well their efforts have worked.

    “All this time, we thought we had to build up armies and air forces! LOLOL”

  48. 48.

    NotMax

    September 30, 2019 at 9:05 pm

    @Adam L. Silverman

    Some one (or somebot) sending out cherry-picked clips from Occupied?

  49. 49.

    Gravenstone

    September 30, 2019 at 9:06 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Some of us read G&T’s comments about it in prior threads. Unless he’s speaking of other potential skullduggery afoot.

  50. 50.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 9:06 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: I forgot, but what is life if you’re not on TeeVee at least three times a week?

    I wonder if Maher will start having her back on, or if he’s beneath her now.

  51. 51.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 9:06 pm

    @Jeffro: You don’t bribe them. You find things they’ve done, or set up conditions where they do things, then you own them.

  52. 52.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:06 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: It definitely did. It worries me very much. I do know that the submarine part of the story may be recycling of reporting from October 2015 when a Russian sub was lurking around.

  53. 53.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:07 pm

    @Leto: Do I look like the Federal government?

  54. 54.

    Jeffro

    September 30, 2019 at 9:09 pm

    @Yarrow: Why not both? And a bribe, once accepted, is a way to own someone.

  55. 55.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 9:10 pm

    Matthew Yglesias @ mattyglesias
    – Way back in the year 2016 it was considered so obviously inappropriate for an attorney general to be directly involved with a politically sensitive case that the mere fact that Bill Clinton and Loretta Lynch had a conversation was considered scandalous.
    -They said that it was just a casual conversation, but critics felt that was fishy and the subject of the FBI investigation into the email server would likely have come up which in turn raised the prospect that Lynch had been asked to involve herself.
    -So even though there was no evidence that she had, in fact, involved herself in the politically sensitive investigation the fact that she clearly did speak to a person with an interest in it raised the POSSIBILITY that she could have and it was seen as a big problem.

  56. 56.

    JPL

    September 30, 2019 at 9:10 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: The Federal Government doesn’t look like the Federal Government.
    just sayin

  57. 57.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 9:11 pm

    @Jeffro: My framing is the end goal. The bribe is not the goal. The owning is the goal.

  58. 58.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 30, 2019 at 9:11 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks, Adam.

  59. 59.

    Another Scott

    September 30, 2019 at 9:12 pm

    @Al Z.: Well that was unexpected.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  60. 60.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 30, 2019 at 9:13 pm

    @Gravenstone: This is the same thing. I mentioned it in one comment in the morning thread, I think.

  61. 61.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:14 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Thanks. This special Jewish New Year Infrastructure Week is off to an exciting start!

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:14 pm

    @NotMax: I don’t know.

  63. 63.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:15 pm

    @JPL: True.

  64. 64.

    Keith P.

    September 30, 2019 at 9:16 pm

    I’m trying not to get my hopes up, but Trump is staring at impending impeachment (and Lord-knows-what-else-awaits-if-he-isn’t-pardoned), Boris Johnson is looking at getting sacked or jailed or investigated for an affair or all of the above, *and* Netanyahu looks close to failing to put together a government and is a few days from being indicted.

  65. 65.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:17 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: You’re quite welcome.

  66. 66.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    This is Balloon Juice Actual to All Hands! General Quarters! I repeat we are going to General Quarters! All hands to stations. Brace for impact!!!!

    .@RudyGiuliani to be interviewed on @seanhannity tonight

    — Emily Ngo (@emilyngo) September 30, 2019

  67. 67.

    Ken

    September 30, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    @NotMax:

    90 minutes of knock knock jokes.

    If you’ve ever been around a four-year-old who’s just learned their first knock-knock joke, this is completely believable. Well, you have to assume Trump has declined to that mental level…

  68. 68.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 30, 2019 at 9:19 pm

    @geg6: @trollhattant: I just looked it up on Amazon because we’re traveling in November and I need stuff to read. The ppb is cheaper than the e-book but for travel, the e-book is better. I read Chernow’s Hamilton. He’s a good writer. He knows how to bring historical material to life.

  69. 69.

    Gravenstone

    September 30, 2019 at 9:20 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Once again, the inherent vulnerability of Democrats having actual consciences rears its ugly head.

  70. 70.

    hells littlest angel

    September 30, 2019 at 9:20 pm

    How every conversation starts:

    Trump: Hello, boss.
    Putin: Why don’t you pass the time by playing a little solitaire?

  71. 71.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 9:20 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: is that 10:00 Eastern? Rudi should be on his fourth manhattan, maybe some wine with dinner?

  72. 72.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 9:23 pm

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!

    The Kremlin says that transcripts of calls between President Trump and Russian President Putin can only be published by mutual agreement. https://t.co/82B6f1vcO8— NBC News (@NBCNews) September 30, 2019

  73. 73.

    chris

    September 30, 2019 at 9:23 pm

    Fake news whack-a-mole. Thread on a statement from the ICIG.

    This statement directly rebuts accusations that Trump and his own lawyers have made, channeling a bogus Federalist story. Actual fake news is derailing this White House. Quite extraordinary to watch. https://t.co/usXcSm5WHU— Neil King (@NKingofDC) September 30, 2019

  74. 74.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 9:24 pm

    Scott Stedman @ ScottMStedman
    I’m hearing from multiple sources that Joseph Mifsud’s lawyer Stephan Roh has been in touch with US govt officials as he pushes his conspiracy theory that Joseph Mifsud was Western intelligence.

  75. 75.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 9:25 pm

    No surprise here:

    Lawyers for the House have revealed that they have reason to believe that the grand-jury redactions in Robert Mueller's report show that Trump lied about his knowledge of his campaign's contacts with WikiLeaks, Politico reports. https://t.co/WQsxjsyxbc— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) October 1, 2019

  76. 76.

    Ken

    September 30, 2019 at 9:25 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    How were you able to get the transcript out of that classified system so fast.

    It turns out the classified system stores everything on the cloud, and Clay keeps the cloud in his living room.

  77. 77.

    MomSense

    September 30, 2019 at 9:28 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Should I reach out to the strikkere? It’s quite a network – they know all!

  78. 78.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:28 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I would think.

  79. 79.

    Jeffro

    September 30, 2019 at 9:29 pm

    @Yarrow: Um okay. I think we’re agreeing here, seeing most of the same parts of the elephant.

    Hopefully Putin’s spreadsheets end up seeing the light of day. Names, bribes/kompromat, ROI, the whole thing. Shoot, we could probably crowd-source 90% of that right here on BJ. The short version would just be “chump change > GOP ‘principles’ “

    Or maybe more like “a smattering of rubles >>> GOP ‘principles’ “

  80. 80.

    Ladyraxterinok

    September 30, 2019 at 9:30 pm

    @Yarrow: Trudeau and brown face made public now?

  81. 81.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:30 pm

    @MomSense: Sure. Also, please get me this week’s powerball #s.

  82. 82.

    MomSense

    September 30, 2019 at 9:32 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Ha!

  83. 83.

    Steve in the ATL

    September 30, 2019 at 9:33 pm

    @Jeffro:

    If your goal is to cause chaos in the Western democracies, with everything else potentially as a bonus, bribing a few public officials and newspaper editors isn’t the hardest thing in the world.

    Easier to allow a PAC-12 team into the college football playoff. No one could get his head around that!

  84. 84.

    trollhattan

    September 30, 2019 at 9:35 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    I got the Kindle edition with no clue as to the length, and was puzzled because the progress bar never budged past, say, Baltic Avenue. Eventually I saw it in the store and went “Oooh.” Definitely more than halfway through by now. There could be a hundred pages of footnotes but I’ve not peeked.

  85. 85.

    Mike in NC

    September 30, 2019 at 9:37 pm

    @geg6: Reading that book right now. Grant was a decent and modest man in every way, so basically the anti-Trump. A very great American hero.

  86. 86.

    Yarrow

    September 30, 2019 at 9:38 pm

    @Jeffro: Yeah, I think we’re pretty much in agreement.

    @Ladyraxterinok: Was thinking the same thing. The PM of NZ is great but I’m thinking a vulnerability for them is all the foreign billionaires who have bought property there to create bunkers. I think NZ has changed their laws about foreigners owning property in recent years but I don’t think they do much about property they already own.

  87. 87.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:39 pm

    @trollhattan: I picked up the Kindle edition a few week’s ago when it was on the $2.99 special. It’s in the queue.

  88. 88.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 30, 2019 at 9:39 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Not enough liquor here at Casa G&T to subject myself to that.

  89. 89.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    September 30, 2019 at 9:40 pm

    @trollhattan: I read Hamilton on my kindle and, now that you mention it, I had the same experience with the progress bar.

  90. 90.

    trollhattan

    September 30, 2019 at 9:41 pm

    Reminder: While the head whale flops on the shoals, the real damage continues.

    Revealed: Trump’s Wildlife Service pick has ties to anti-animal protection groups

    Donald Trump’s nominee to lead the US Fish and Wildlife Service has links to powerful agricultural interests opposed to protections for endangered species she would oversee, the Guardian has learned.

    Aurelia Skipwith, who is already a top official at the interior department, formerly worked at the agrochemical giant Monsanto.
    Trump pressed Ukraine leader to investigate Biden, memo reveals
    Read more

    New revelations show she also has ties to the Westlands Water District, a political powerhouse with a history of chafing against Endangered Species Act regulations that can interfere with farmers’ demands for water in California.

    Yet a Senate committee approved Skipwith’s nomination Wednesday in a party-line vote of 11-10.

    Jayson O’Neill, the deputy director of Western Values Project, a public lands watchdog group based in Montana, claimed that Skipwith’s resumé – she is a lawyer with a master’s degree in genetics – shows she is unqualified. He said David Bernhardt, Trump’s interior secretary, is hiring her for her “deep ties to the swamp and special interests”.

    Skipwith’s fiance, Leo Giacometto, is a former lobbyist who worked on behalf of Westlands from 2005 to 2010 in his role as the founder of Gage International. Skipwith has said she was an “unpaid adviser” for Gage starting in 2013.

    Bernhardt, who would be Skipwith’s new boss if she is to be confirmed, also lobbied for Westlands. Bernhardt once sued the US government on behalf of Westlands, aiming to roll back protections for winter-run Chinook salmon in California.

    Under Bernhardt’s watch, Westlands has benefited from policy changes enacted by the interior department and its subagency, the Fish and Wildlife Service.

    I’m out of can’t-evens.

  91. 91.

    Gin & Tonic

    September 30, 2019 at 9:41 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Has Mifsud’s body turned up anywhere?

  92. 92.

    Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ

    September 30, 2019 at 9:43 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Pardon my nerdiness but when I read your comment I thought of Sauron and Saruman in LOTR. Although Commander Cheesypoofs in Chief has nowhere near the powers of Saruman, they certainly have/had hubris enough to think they could play with the big dogs.

  93. 93.

    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho

    September 30, 2019 at 9:44 pm

    Late to wish Shana Tovah to people.

  94. 94.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:45 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: I just had some rum cake, so I’m either good to go or I’m going to wake up on a frigate somewhere in the south Atlantic having been impressed into the British Navy.

  95. 95.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 30, 2019 at 9:45 pm

    @Yarrow: Oh that’s good. Now I want NBC to get ahold of some transcripts.

    “Oops! Published! Cry in each other’s arms Dump and Putin.”

    (Yes, I know they’d try to blame the Democrats for Dump sucking Putin’s ass.)

  96. 96.

    Geoduck

    September 30, 2019 at 9:46 pm

    Re: Gorka, I read third-hand comment elsewhere that his official designation on the trip is “press”.

  97. 97.

    Elizabelle

    September 30, 2019 at 9:47 pm

    @Mike in NC:

    Think about how US Grant’s reputation was trashed for the better part of a century. Alcoholic. Corrupt.

    It was letting the fucking confederate sympathizers do the whispering campaign and write the history books.

    How we have the cult of St. Ronald Reagan, while Jimmy Carter (who turns 95 this week!) gets credit for nothing.

    This is why it is going to be so important to hold Trump’s enablers accountable. All of them. As OhioMom said, we don’t want to hear the enablers saying “look, systems worked.” Uh no.

    We need to follow Germany’s example WRT being honest about Nazis.

    And we need to stop allowing constant broadcasting by Fox News and Rush, etc. without some form of a fairness doctrine. We could never have Trump without fucking Murdoch and blowhard Rush salting the fields for decades. Don’t let their ugliness and brainwashing hide behind the First Amendment.

  98. 98.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 30, 2019 at 9:47 pm

    @Adam L Silverman: Ew. No.

  99. 99.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:48 pm

    @Mrs. D. Ranged in AZ: I have read LoTR a lot, so no worries, I’m tracking.

  100. 100.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:48 pm

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I always thought Shana Tovah would be a great name for either a Jewish stripper, adult actress, or both.

  101. 101.

    Adam L Silverman

    September 30, 2019 at 9:49 pm

    @Geoduck: That may be. Either from Sinclair or OANN or whichever station his radio show is on.

  102. 102.

    Doug R

    September 30, 2019 at 9:49 pm

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    Trudeau and brown face made public now?

    Yeah, as a Canadian voter the Trudeau coloured face pictures make me feel bad, just like they were intended to.
    The question is: Where was that picture in 2015? Why was it released now?
    It proves that Trudeau is/was an entitled douche, but the Conservatives want to RACE us towards climate change, all for the almighty $.
    We had a saying in the last election that I hope holds true this time: ABC Anybody But Conservative.

  103. 103.

    Mary G

    September 30, 2019 at 9:52 pm

    Lindsey Graham says on Hannity that he plans to write a letter to the U.K., Italy and Australia “asking them to cooperate with Barr."— Rebecca Ballhaus (@rebeccaballhaus) October 1, 2019

  104. 104.

    Jeffro

    September 30, 2019 at 9:56 pm

    @Mary G: First person to photoshop Lindsey’s face onto Princess Leia’s Episode IV hologram asking for help wins…wait…never mind, the Internet already took care of that.

    “Help the trumpov kkkrime kkkartel, Western powers who still can’t believe we’re getting away with this shit. You’re our only hope!”

  105. 105.

    Butter Emails

    September 30, 2019 at 9:58 pm

    It looks like the current Republican strategy is to gather all the lying, dishonest, corrupt shitheads they can find internationally to spread disinformation. Essentially, they are going to get all the criminals to point the finger at Obama, Hillary, Biden and the deep state.

  106. 106.

    Ladyraxterinok

    September 30, 2019 at 10:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Mifsud from Malta. Mayor Pete of Maltese heritage. Opportunity for conspiracy theories

  107. 107.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 10:02 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Richard M. Nixon @ dick_nixon
    Hannity even seems impatient for Giuliani to speak English.

    @Mary G: Meanwhile, and not at all coincidentally

    Matt Rogers ? ? @ Politidope
    9m9 minutes ago
    Lawyers for the House revealed tonight that they “have reason to believe that the grand-jury redactions in special counsel Robert Mueller’s report show that President Donald Trump lied about his knowledge of his campaign’s contacts with WikiLeaks.”

  108. 108.

    Sebastian

    September 30, 2019 at 10:02 pm

    @Fair Economist:

    The media is more than complicit. They resurrected the 60ies and 70ies playbook of infiltrating and compromising Western media.

  109. 109.

    Jeffro

    September 30, 2019 at 10:04 pm

    @Butter Emails: Totally. They have to go all-in on their weird all-encompassing, “these idiot liberals are also the world’s greatest criminal masterminds evar!!!1!” Theory of the world, since, well, all the facts are against them.

    It’s like the facts AND the law AND even the table are against them, so they are left to publicly pound their…er…never mind…

  110. 110.

    Fair Economist

    September 30, 2019 at 10:08 pm

    @Sebastian: I could believe that.

    Another example of the shared playbook is Boris trying to incite unorganized violence by followers, copying Duterte, Modi, and Trump.

  111. 111.

    mad citizen

    September 30, 2019 at 10:13 pm

    @Elizabelle: This is a great comment and I second it. I was thinking the other day about all of Carter’s work around the world helping democracies to run free and fair elections. I wonder if he’s available for U.S.?

  112. 112.

    Ladyraxterinok

    September 30, 2019 at 10:14 pm

    @Mike in NC: Got impression in school (50s as nd 60s) he was a plodder.

    Now I consider it, my college prof of Freshman American History and his departmental colleague were experts on Confederate military history. Still remember his colleague’s 1 hr lecture on Stonewall Jackson. Was riveting!

  113. 113.

    Ladyraxterinok

    September 30, 2019 at 10:21 pm

    @Elizabelle: Thanks for reminding how Grant was so denigrated.

  114. 114.

    Sab

    September 30, 2019 at 10:23 pm

    @trollhattant: @geg6: I always thought Grant got smeared by his own enemies in his day, and by their descendants on the Texas School Board book purchasing committees.

    I read his own biography about five years ago. Beautifully written. As an Ohioan I was deeply embarrassed not to have read it sooner.

  115. 115.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 10:25 pm

    Jon Favreau @ jonfavs
    Rudy now on Hannity accusing Barack Obama and the Washington Post of being Biden’s co-conspirators.
    It’s so hard to even follow this, it’s like they’re speaking a different language.

    Now Hannity and LindseyGrahamSC are speculating that foreign countries contracted spies to help the Democrats take down Trump.
    A global conspiracy against Trump in 2016 that led to…his election as president!

  116. 116.

    Ladyraxterinok

    September 30, 2019 at 10:30 pm

    @Doug R: Spent 76-77 at Memorial U in St John’s Nfld where my ex had a sabbatical . Loved it and what we saw of Canada both ways between IA and Nfld. Visited Lewisburg. Some yrs later visited the Hudson Bay fort at Thunder Bay. Canada does an incredible job with those types of living history museums.

  117. 117.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 10:30 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Andrew Lawrence @ ndrew_lawrence
    Sean Hannity says Australia, Italy and Great Britain illegally spied on the Trump campaign for Obama and Lindsey Graham says he isn’t sure if they did, but maybe

    The Second Most Seriousest Person in the Village on foreign policy for almost twenty years

  118. 118.

    mad citizen

    September 30, 2019 at 10:32 pm

    A few years ago, someone stuck an “infowars” sticker on the face of a traffic sign along a road I drive to work every morning. It’s in a place with wild bushes growing right up to the road for a good piece, so hard for anyone to walk up to it. Anyhoo, it’s still there, I checked it this morning. All this Rudy stuff makes me wonder why Alex Jones isn’t part of their crew, this is right up his alley.

  119. 119.

    Leto

    September 30, 2019 at 10:36 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I got a speeding ticket, but my lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, pleaded it down to first degree murder! Thanks, Rudy!

    (Shamelessly stolen from the internet)

  120. 120.

    cain

    September 30, 2019 at 10:40 pm

    DougJ has been killing it with sarcastic NYT opinions/editorial “pitches”.

  121. 121.

    cain

    September 30, 2019 at 10:44 pm

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: I always thought Shana Tovah would be a great name for either a Jewish stripper, adult actress, or both.

    Luckily you’re Jewish and you can crack that joke ;) But then “Shana Tovah to tell you she’s not in the business, no more!” OK, bad joke. But alternatives would make John Cole blush.

  122. 122.

    NotMax

    September 30, 2019 at 10:46 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist

    “We dissemble, you decide.”

    //

  123. 123.

    Zelma

    September 30, 2019 at 10:52 pm

    Grant’s unfavorable reputation is a good example of why we can’t trust “history” to get it right. I say that as a historian. When I hear comments about how “history” will judge the current Trump enablers, I cringe. History is often written by the “winners,” but just as often it is written by the “losers.” The historiography of the American Civil War and its greatest general is one example of this. I “learned” my American history in the late 50s and early 60s, at the tail end of the glorification of the “lost cause.” Why it was all about “states’ rights,” you know. And maybe the tariff. Slavery? Why that was just another labor system. Nothing to see there. Move along. And Reconstruction? Oh those nasty “Carpetbaggers” and Scalawags who were picking on those nice Southern folks.

    OK, that’s a bit of an exaggeration, but not much. It’s taken decades to set the record straight and obviously, it hasn’t sunk in for many people, especially among my generation.

    Trump and the people around him don’t care what “history” will say about them. They figure they’ll be dead. But, in my opinion, not soon enough.

  124. 124.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 30, 2019 at 10:55 pm

    @Zelma:

    But, in my opinion, not soon enough.

    Seconded.

  125. 125.

    jl

    September 30, 2019 at 10:58 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Get Smart Would You Believe 3
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCKzuh1-pbQ

  126. 126.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 30, 2019 at 10:59 pm

    @mad citizen:

    All this Rudy stuff makes me wonder why Alex Jones isn’t part of their crew, this is right up his alley.

    Ghouliani doesn’t scream about gay lizard people enough?

    ETA – Has Jones had the life sued out of him yet?

  127. 127.

    jl

    September 30, 2019 at 11:00 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Secret Agent Man Lyrics
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGZ0ntpSx2Y

  128. 128.

    jl

    September 30, 2019 at 11:02 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: Giuliani doesn’t have a line of man pills and super duper vitality protein muscle shakes ready to go?

  129. 129.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 30, 2019 at 11:05 pm

    drew Lawrence @ ndrew_lawrence
    So Rudy just admitted that he has video tapes and tape recordings of….something? Unclear but my hunch is that its him doing a bunch of crime

    just saw this clip on MSNBC, he brought up his secret tapes in reference to evidence he would like to present to Congress, then seemed to say it’s all protected by attorney/client privilege.

  130. 130.

    Nora

    September 30, 2019 at 11:06 pm

    @Zelma: Interestingly, I’m currently reading The Impeachers about the impeachment of Andrew Johnson, and I’m startled at how little I knew about this period of American history before, say, the last couple of years. Reconstruction was one of those things we sped through in US History, on our way past the Civil War and onto the Gilded Age and then the two exciting World Wars! A lot of pro-southern propaganda, even in JFK’s Profiles in Courage, which lionized the Senator who voted against convicting Johnson, when really Johnson had betrayed his oath of office and Lincoln’s legacy with his eagerness to make sure this was a nation for white people and only for white people (reading about the arguments against black suffrage in the immediate aftermath of the Civil War made me deeply ashamed to be white). Really good book which I recommend highly.

  131. 131.

    mrmoshpotato

    September 30, 2019 at 11:07 pm

    @jl: LOL Look at Rudy. Need I say more?

  132. 132.

    Mike in DC

    October 1, 2019 at 12:01 am

    Adam, assuming someday we get through all this with our country(mostly) intact, I’d love to hear your thoughts on what, vis a vis Russia, “Containment 2.0” might look like.

  133. 133.

    Chris Johnson

    October 1, 2019 at 4:46 am

    @Timurid:

    At this point they have two choices:

    1. Go full authoritarian. Refuse to give up the call records or any other information. Order government employees not to cooperate with Congress, even if subpoenaed. Threaten private citizens who are asked to cooperate. Manufacture more bogus investigations of enemies in government and the media (as with the ongoing Clinton email probe). Use the Justice Department as their bunker. Incite violence by non-state actors. Manufacture a war or other crisis.

    2. Quit.

    I don’t believe they can actually do 1 because they don’t have Putin’s support now. The Russians needed this to be covert since it was always a stretch: high drama doesn’t work for them. My guess is that the next move is to blame Trump and his people entirely, say THEY were the ones taking all the initiative, pull back and consolidate around a second wave of compromised Republican operatives such as McConnell if they can, or others. I’m very suspicious of Paul Ryan, who’s moving back to Washington and was always the press darling (and it’s become obvious how Russian-controlled some of the press is). He could be getting groomed to take on a second wave of control, one that’s less batshit outrageous and will give Putin what he wants. I would vote NAY on that one.

    But support for Trump stupidly trying to pull off an open coup and crush our system of government? No. Which is not to say he wouldn’t try it or isn’t trying it, but even compromised Republicans aren’t going to help him because doing so doesn’t serve Russia’s real interests. Again, Russia needs all this to be covert. Trump is… not good at ‘covert’ or ‘subtle’.

  134. 134.

    prufrock

    October 1, 2019 at 4:53 am

    @patrick II: My grandfather was a West Point grad, class of 1939. I looked at his yearbooks, and the leader of the corps of cadets when my grandfather was a plebe was William Westmoreland.

    It’s always been a shady institution.

  135. 135.

    Jinchi

    October 1, 2019 at 9:23 am

    @clay:

    Nyet, of course we did not interfere with the election…

    Needs a *wink, wink* in there I think.

    Let’s not encourage the stupidity defense. Trump knows Putin interfered, because they collaborated on it. That’s why feels he can snark “Don’t meddle in the election, please” in front of a pool of reporters and tells George Stephanopoulos, while the cameras are rolling, that he would happily take dirt on an opponent from “Norway” .

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