Friday Morning Open Thread: SURPRISE!…


 
SHADE THROWN:

But what of the BoBo demographic?






194 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄 😄😄

  2. 2
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Blech.

  3. 3
    FelonyGovt says:

    Good morning! Can’t sleep. I sort of hope this will be a quiet day.

  4. 4
    Dopey-o says:

    Here it is 5:00 am and I’m setting up my popcorn popper…..
    Curse you, interesting times!
    (And I don’t mean the FTFNYTimes.) But I do.

  5. 5
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    For the “Headlines I never thought I’d read” file: Referee shot in face by cannon during college football game in Maine

    Talk about Blech.

    ETA: oh yeah, The Mariners, who play in Division III, lost the game to Massachusetts Maritime Academy, 42-21.

  6. 6
    satby says:

    Had a great reunion with Qunoot yesterday and a fantastic Middle Eastern lunch at Al Bawadi on the way home from the airport. Chicago peeps, if you want authentic, it was amazingly good and won the picky Ms. Qunoot seal of approval.
    (She’s not a picky eater, but she’s picky about her cultural food being represented faithfully). Back to Chicago today to go downtown.
    She isn’t wearing hijab any more while not in her country, and didn’t send a picture because she wondered if I would recognize her. I spotted her immediately, of course, even in shorts and a sleeveless shirt.

  7. 7
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Threatening the Whistleblower is just icing on the cake. Just sonething more to add to the impeachment charges. I don’t see how his handlers are going to be able to control Trump as the impeachment process ramps up.

  8. 8
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  9. 9
  10. 10
  11. 11
  12. 12
    satby says:

    @Patricia Kayden: his social circle is mobsters, and he’s suggesting that one of his “friends” get rid of that problem for him. Because he thinks that eliminating one person somehow would make it all disappear.

  13. 13
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So Romney is the sole Republican Senator to speak out. It will be interesting to see if anyone else has a conscience in that party.

  14. 14
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I reckon their consciences have an inverse correlation to Trump’s approval rating among party members in their home states.

  15. 15
    JPL says:

    My morning routine is all f..ked up.. Normally I read the news last but now it’s the first thing I do. blech indeed. In the famous word of SNL star, Cecily Strong, “You’re doing too much. I want one day without a CNN alert that scares the hell out of me.”

  16. 16
  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    “What can I say? My constituents are traitors.”

  18. 18
    tokyokie says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I reckon their consciences have an inverse correlation to Trump’s approval rating among party members in their home states.

    And just consider how much worse it might be if the GOP didn’t represent the “values voters.”

  19. 19
    delk says:

    @satby: Al Bawadi was near my mom’s house. Haven’t been since she passed away. It used to be an old fast food restaurant but they have added so many additions to it you can’t tell.

    Have fun downtown! I’ll pay attention to the people taking selfies flipping off Trump Tower in case it’s you! 😀

  20. 20
    debbie says:

    What the what is he even babbling about?

    Rep. Devin Nunes, the Ranking Member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, left everyone confused and baffled when he claimed at a Thursday hearing that Democrats wanted “nude pictures” of President Donald Trump.

    “A Ukrainian official was a source for Nellie Orr, wife of Department of Justice official Bruce Orr, as she worked on the anti-Trump operation conducted by Fusion GPS and funded by the Democrats,” Nunes said, presumably referring to the Steele Dossier, a large report of embarrassing information about Trump funded by the firm Fusion GPS.

    He added: “Of course, Democrats on this very committee negotiated with people who they thought were Ukrainians in order to obtain nude pictures of Trump,” not clarifying what nude pictures or which committee members he was talking about.

  21. 21
    oldster says:

    The photo of the turtle —
    I would like to hear the backstory on that.

  22. 22
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I’m not so sure Romney has a conscious so much as a fine tuned self preservation instinct.

  23. 23
    Kay says:

    I read the complaint and it reads like the whistleblower is one person but he/she was chosen (or volunteered) to come forward and put forth accounts by the witnesses. Which would really scare me if I were Trump or one of the Republicans relying on smearing the whistleblower because the witnesses are right behind him/her. So if those people were to come forward, or were compelled to come forward, are they protected by the whistleblower law? Would that be how one would do this? Have a person who did not have direct first hand information come forward, protected by the law, and thus protect the witnesses behind him or her by extension when they’re then compelled to appear and testify?

  24. 24
    Baud says:

    @debbie: That is absolutely the last thing any Democrat would want.

  25. 25
    Ken says:

    @debbie: You miss one season of the show and it’s impossible to catch up with the plot lines.

    The show being Fox News, not a soap opera, but the principle is the same.

  26. 26
    Betty Cracker says:

    There’s a fascinating article in The New Yorker about Pelosi and her decision to open the impeachment inquiry. She describes the call she received from Trump earlier this week, when he was trying to head off the impeachment announcement, and her words fairly drip with contempt:

    Earlier this week, Pelosi said, she took a call from Trump, who started out talking about guns. “The President, as you know, is big on what he claims is the charm offensive,” she said. “And some of his charm offensive is very offensive. He was calling me ostensibly to talk about guns, and I have to take him seriously if that is the purpose of the call. I welcome any overture to talk about gun safety. He was telling me progress was being made with his work with Democrats and Republicans. My point was, ‘I don’t know what Democrats you were talking to. We sent you a bipartisan bill over two hundred days ago, and that’s the way to save the most lives.’ ”

    Imagine being so evil and self-interested that you’d ignore a national emergency like gun violence for three straight years, then turn around and use the issue to try to wheedle your way out of a tight spot. Pelosi understands who she’s dealing with:

    “This is about the facts and the Constitution.” Trump, she went on, “doesn’t care about any of that. This is a strain of cat that I don’t have the medical credentials to analyze nor the religious credentials to judge.”

  27. 27
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Right????

    @Kay:

    This tells me he’s out of control. His staff — supporters and advisers — knew just how badly he’d fucked up and tried to hide the evidence. His own people.

  28. 28
    Betty Cracker says:

    @debbie: My understanding is that (wingnut?) pranksters pretending to be Ukrainians called Adam Schiff and claimed they had nude photos of Trump. Schiff told them to contact the FBI.

  29. 29
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @debbie: He wants the pictures and he’s pissed off the DEMs are holding out on him.

  30. 30
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    nor the religious credentials to judge

    One does not need religious credentials to judge. In fact, in my experience they hinder judgement.

  31. 31
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Looking forward to more hearings in the near future and especially to Giuliani being forced to answer hard questions. He’s already throwing the State Department under the bus.

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    He knows the difference between right and wrong, but I don’t know that he really cares. I do think his categorical imperative is what’s good is what is right for him. In the campaign, he told us who he was. He said that he could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and nobody would care, that his supporters wouldn’t care. Well, he could violate our Constitution, the integrity of our elections, and dishonor his oath of office, as he did in this call, and think that nobody cares.”

    He did tell us who he was. It is why I’m still resentful of people–especially people ostensibly on our side–who refused to see it.

  33. 33
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Utah is a pretty red state so I’m assuming he’ll win again no matter what he says about Trump. He probably has little to lose in speaking out.

  34. 34
    Immanentize says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Another James O’Keefe production, no doubt.

  35. 35
    Immanentize says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Giuliani will likely never appear. Attorney/client privilege doncha know….

  36. 36
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yep. Their consciences correlate to their own self-interest. Selfish as hell. The opposite of the Jesus they claim to worship,

  37. 37
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    He’s shown people who he was since the late 1970s, and you can see that in the 2106 vote in Manhattan. Yet the rest of the country ignored the people who knew better.

  38. 38
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    I’d like to know who paid for his trips to Ukraine, the campaign or us suckers?

  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    @satby:
    So glad that she made it through the airport with no problems, satby.

  40. 40
    Quinerly says:

    @Kay: Yesterday, I heard several security experts, ex CIA types (several minutes were spent on this theory on C Todd’s show yesterday) say the same thing. Several potential whistleblowers got together, put together/discussed the info; and it’s kinda like this guy drew the short straw & became the one to report all of it. Josh Marshall is calling him “Deep Whistle.”

  41. 41
    rikyrah says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    People understand threatening someone just doing their job. That cuts through a lot of bullshyt 😠 😠

  42. 42
    JPL says:

    Seriously, what is trump tweeting about.. I don’t get it

    To show you how dishonest the LameStream Media is, I used the word Liddle’, not Liddle, in discribing Corrupt Congressman Liddle’ Adam Schiff. Low ratings @CNN purposely took the hyphen out and said I spelled the word little wrong. A small but never ending situation with CNN!

  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Willard still has no spine

  44. 44
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Patricia Kayden: There is a a sizeable proportion of Mormons who are not particularly fond of trump, and I suspect the ones who like his presidency don’t like him much either. The self preservation I speak of is not necessarily electoral.

  45. 45
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie:
    Id like to know who is paying for the Trump campaign. Donors? Or US taxpayers.

  46. 46
    Ken says:

    @Patricia Kayden: And of course conversely – we can’t be that far away from Giuliani becoming another coffee guy.

    “Who? Oh, that guy running around saying he’s my personal lawyer and working for the State Department? One, I never paid him a retainer, and two, he’s never been appointed to, or hired by, State. No connection to me at all.”

    (Though that’s far more coherent than Trump could manage.)

  47. 47
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Giuliani said he was not acting as his atty.

  48. 48
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I thought Attorney/Client privilege did not apply in the commission of criminal acts.

  49. 49
    Let Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    Jesus fucking Christ – if I was tweeting like that and my wife found out, she’d barge into the bathroom, snatch the phone out of my hands and smash it into pieces on the bathroom floor – and Is deserve it (happened once on Facebook – I’d called someone’s father-in-law a dolt, and her boss was chortling at her about it because it was a shared friend).

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @JPL:

    LameStream Media

    Didn’t Sarah Palin coin that phrase? If he’s channeling her, then he’s not recovering from this.

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    There is an ‘audiobook’ reading of the whistleblower complaint. What struck me is the use of language. No word wasted. Every word meaning something. Laid out the problem immediately.

    What needs to not get lost…

    The number of people in on this, beginning with Race Bannon and Barr, both of whom should be impeached too.😒😒

  52. 52
    Ken says:

    @JPL: Confusing an apostrophe for a hyphen? Well, now he’s doomed. The Grammar Police will be all over this, and they – do – not – let – go.

  53. 53
    JPL says:

    @Baud: Liddle’ with an apostrophe not a hypen..

  54. 54
    Kay says:

    @Quinerly:

    Right, and Trump referenced that yesterday, when he threatened them. But he’s just focusing on prosecuting them. Well, executing them. I’m wondering if the whistleblower was chosen deliberately because the person who is not a direct witness has to come forward first, protected by that law, and then the direct witness(s) come later, and are protected by extension.

  55. 55
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @Ken:

    Pedants can be brutal.

    The most apt analogies are Javert and Ahab.

  56. 56
    Baud says:

    @JPL: I would have gone with an N-dash myself.

  57. 57
    Immanentize says:

    @JPL: @OzarkHillbilly:
    Oh, just because Giuliani said he was not Trump’s attorneys, was working for free, and may have been an accomplice to crimes does not mean he won’t claim Attorney/Client privilege. Giuliani is not yet addled enough to forget that privilege is twice as strong as so-called “Executive Privilege.”

    I do wish someone would shut down these witness claims of “potential executive privilege.”. There just isn’t any such thing.

  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: Pretty sure Deep Whistle (and his silent partners) was lawyered up before he even signed the complaint.

  59. 59
    Ken says:

    Open thread, this week’s Chris Grey Brexit Blog has been posted. Not a substitute for Tony Jay’s wit and prose, but informative.

  60. 60
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Again, I thought Attorney/Client privilege did not apply in the commission of criminal acts., which is why Michael Cohen’s work for trump was not privileged.

    ETA I should say SO MUCH of Michael Cohen’s work

  61. 61
    Quinerly says:

    @JPL: I love the responses on the thread. For example:
    “I personally think not understanding the difference between an apostrophe and a hyphen at the presidential level is an impeachable offense”

  62. 62
    Quinerly says:

    Nancy Smash on Morning Joe.

  63. 63
    Baud says:

    Liddle’ Adam Schiff
    Liddle– Adam Schiff
    Liddle— Adam Schiff
    Liddle: Adam Schiff
    Liddle? Adam Schiff
    Liddle, Adam Schiff
    Liddle~Adam Schiff

  64. 64
    Quinerly says:

    @rikyrah: The reader on that audio book is great. Heard a snippet on Rachel last night.

  65. 65
    Ken says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:

    The most apt analogies are Javert and Ahab.

    Your own nymsake was no slouch.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    Hyphengate is an attempt to distract from impeachment. Don’t fall for it.

  67. 67
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @Quinerly:

    She called him cowardly. 😂

    That will get under his craw.

  68. 68
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @Ken:

    Aye, but ultimately, he turned his back on vengeance.

  69. 69
    Betty Cracker says:

    Trump is still claiming to be astonished that anyone could be critical of his call with Zelensky:

    I had a simple and very.. …..nice call with with the new President of Ukraine, it could not have been better or more honorable, and the Fake News Media and Democrats, working as a team, have fraudulently made it look bad. It wasn’t bad, it was very legal and very good. A continuing Witch Hunt!

    Meanwhile, the WSJ says Pence and Conway argued against releasing it. Hmmmmmm.

  70. 70
    Quinerly says:

    Sooooo, if Nancy had pulled the trigger for impeachment, say in June, where would we be?

  71. 71
    Quinerly says:

    This is a great interview with Nancy on MJ.

  72. 72
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I can’t believe he’s still using the same dumb nicknames trick. They’re going to have to come up with something new.

    He must hate that leaked video. It’s all blurry and jerky and he sounds so nasty.

  73. 73
    Amir Khalid says:

    @debbie:
    The phrase “nude pictures of President Donald Trump” made me use up all my brain bleach. Now I’ll have to add it to my shopping list.

  74. 74
    Quinerly says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: great interview. She’s always good in these one one interviews.

  75. 75
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @satby: I do feel anxious about the Whistleblower’s safety. He deserves a Medal of Honor for coming forward. I’m looking forward to his testimony. Democrats should call him along with others who back his claims to testify at the same hearing. That will bolster the fact that this is not a partisan attack on Trump.

  76. 76
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    First you have to prove the attorney was involved in criminal acts. Not allege, prove.

  77. 77
    Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes says:

    @Quinerly:

    I like her a lot. She comes across as empathetic and cautious.

  78. 78
    Quinerly says:

    @Amir Khalid: “Alexa, order more brain bleach.”
    (I also read there is alcohol infused popcorn, but I digress)

  79. 79
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    I thought is was Liddle’s Adam, referring to Trump’s childhood classmate, Ralphie Liddle, who had a brother named Adam…. Or something something.

  80. 80
    Quinerly says:

    @Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: but do you really think she “prays for Trump everyday”?

  81. 81
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Quinerly: I’ll give all kudos to Speaker Pelosi for playing her cards in a methodical manner. She waited for the perfect moment. She probably knew that Trump would give her more fodder and of course he did.

  82. 82
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Baud:
    What the fish is a Liddle?

  83. 83
  84. 84
    Quinerly says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Kelly Anne Conway is accusing her of being a “woman who changed her mind.”

  85. 85
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Kitten update:

    They are still small enough to go through the gate, but we’ve put it up anyway, blocking off the hallway so that they can run between their room and the master bedroom. They’ve mostly stayed behind it, especially when one of us is in the bedrooms with them. More importantly, it gives them a bolt hole if they manage to really upset one of the other cats. So far so good.

    They slept with us last night. Maysie is a bed hog.

    Pixel is still warning them off, Miles is still glaring and occasionally hissy, and Max, we had a breakthrough with Max yesterday. Maysie and Max aren’t best friends yet, but there were face bumps instead of hisses when they encountered each other. He’s not sure about Loki yet.

  86. 86
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Ken: Giuliani has taped phone calls and text messages from the State Department so that’s probably not going to work. Trump and Giuliani strike me as thugs who won’t go down by themselves.

  87. 87
    Kay says:

    Tim Murphy
    @timothypmurphy
    ·18h
    I didn’t do it, I’m innocent, all the witnesses should die

  88. 88
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Quinerly:
    I don’t know this Alexa well enough to entrust my shopping to her.

  89. 89
  90. 90
    Immanentize says:

    @Quinerly:
    I think it is entirely possible that good Catholic Nonna prays every day for all the people given the charge of running the country. Maybe not each individually. Also, likely daily words from the Speaker: “Jesus Christ that man needs help.!”

  91. 91
    Quinerly says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I feel better knowing he is CIA. In related news, have you seen how those spooks are trained to drive on those New Mexico dirt roads? 😈

  92. 92
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Utah is a pretty red state so I’m assuming he’ll win again no matter what he says about Trump.

    Yeah, Utah is a very Mormon state, and the name ‘Romney’ has the same weight there that ‘Kennedy’ had in Massachusetts 20 years ago. That’s why Mitt went ‘home’ there, when he failed to convince the rest of us heathens he was the Man on the White Horse (for the White House).

    At least one knowledgeable tweeter said that Romney is doing this semi-almost-condemnation because (my paraphrase) he’s always wanted to live up to his father’s reputation for choosing honor over political expediency. My Spousal Unit, on the other hand, thinks it means Mitt *still* images he can run for president and win this time, as the True GOP Alternative to the parvenu currently stinking up the Oval Office. Quite possibly both opinions are correct!

  93. 93
    Ken says:

    @Quinerly: I think many people “pray for Trump every day.” They may throw in an infinitive phrase[*] after “Trump” but the prayer is definitely there.

    [*] Risking the wrath of the Grammar Police, but I’m pretty sure that “to resign in disgrace” or “to f*ck off” is called that.

  94. 94
  95. 95
    Quinerly says:

    @Ken: 💚

  96. 96
    Quinerly says:

    @Amir Khalid: she’s good. Very precise. Apparently has a line in straight to Bezos.

  97. 97
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Absolutely. Needs something new to improve the ratings. How about “Celebrity Treason”?

  98. 98
    Quinerly says:

    @Amir Khalid:So I tried it out and I just said, “Alexa, order more brain bleach.” She has put a coffee mug in my cart. It says, “More Brain Bleach.”

  99. 99
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Quinerly:

    but do you really think she “prays for Trump everyday”?

    Oh, absolutely. “Dear Lord, could you please do something about this man?”

    It’s the old-school Catholic version of the Southern Lady “Bless his heart.”

  100. 100
    satby says:

    @rikyrah: thanks! She does out on her hijab and wear a jacket to travel, to match her I’d cards and passport, because she doesn’t want some overzealous ICE Yahoo to decide she’s trying to disguise herself. Pretty pathetic that it has come to this here.

  101. 101
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I think it’s good. That he can’t adjust to a new set of facts, a worse environment. He’s treating this exactly the same as he treats everything else, and it’s different.

  102. 102
  103. 103
    clay says:

    @JPL: Well… at least he’s not a grammar Nazi.

  104. 104
    Quinerly says:

    @Kay: Entire WH is caught off guard. I guess they thought this day would never come.

  105. 105
    Quinerly says:

    @Anne Laurie: 💚
    I am a child of the South. Thanks for the chuckle.

  106. 106
    Ken says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    What the fish is a Liddle?

    Google doesn’t know. It first asks if you really meant “Lidl” which is a grocery chain. Forcing it to show “liddle” gives you Trump’s tweet, some of the snarky reactions, and a few pages about “Liddle’s Syndrome” which is an inherited high blood pressure.

    So to answer your question, it’s a sign of more brain cells dying in the Presidential brain.

  107. 107
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @JPL: Cthulhu help me but I can follow the thinking of the syphilitic brain squirrels on that one. He’s seen “Li’l” and the squirrels remembered “there’s some nickname and it’s based on little and it has some little squiggle in it”.

    But they don’t know it’s called an apostrophe (they are squirrels after all) and had no idea what function it serves (ditto). So they put out Liddle with a pointless apostrophe hanging off the end like a booger.

    And then sent it to CNN and were outraged when it was spellchecked.

  108. 108
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Also, it’s hard to believe Trump’s efforts to manipulate the election are limited to Ukraine. I hope we learn more. I want an avalanche of information to come out. Maximum damage to the GOP senators who will vote to acquit.

  109. 109
    JPL says:

    @Quinerly: haha That-s awesome!

  110. 110
    JPL says:

    @Ken: don’t make the mistake of looking in the urban dictionary like I did..

  111. 111
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    When the whistleblower surfaced, Rudy was actively working to expand the Biden smear to China, so that would be my guess.

    They could apply a lot of pressure with tariffs/trade.

  112. 112
    Baud says:

    @Kay: That would be great. I’m sure the Patriot Farmers would love to learn that Trump drove them to bankruptcy in order to have leverage to coerce China to investigate Biden.

  113. 113
    WereBear says:

    @Quinerly: Sooooo, if Nancy had pulled the trigger for impeachment, say in June, where would we be?

    In the midst of hearings claiming Trump and his administration are traitors and this lands like a second act reveal? While American watches the hearings and the congresscritters who sign on mounts up like a talent show?

    I think that’s where we would be.

  114. 114
    satby says:

    @Kay: and if it comes out that the tariffs that are starting to really put the squeeze on people are being used to screw with the election, that could be a bridge to far for all but the most nutty Trumpite. Because it’s hitting red staters where it hurts.
    Edit: or what Baud said better.

  115. 115
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    The president’s personal attorney has convinced more Democrats to open an impeachment inquiry into his client. But Rudy Giuliani is already hinting at a new front in his questionable offensive against former Vice President Joe Biden’s son. And it’s a charge that Trump allies outside the White House have been pursuing for months.
    A group of conservative activists closely aligned with the president—including former White House adviser Steve Bannon, conservative author Peter Schweizer, and anti-Muslim activist Frank Gaffney—are trying to spread dirt on Hunter Biden’s work in China. Their efforts have come as almost all of the national political attention is focused on Giuliani’s and President Donald Trump’s efforts to pressure the Ukrainian government into investigating alleged corruption involving the former VP’s son, who formerly sat on the board of an energy company in the country.

    The NYTimes Clinton smear sources. It would have been front page in that paper by Thanksgiving if the whistleblower hadn’t have interrupted the sequence.

  116. 116

    @satby: I’ll have to try Al-Bawadi. One of the things I miss most about Detroit is middle-eastern food.

  117. 117
    Baud says:

    @WereBear:

    I disagree. But I’m not interested in arguing over counterfactualls.

  118. 118
    Quinerly says:

    @WereBear: so if impeachment had started on one track, you think he would have still handled Ukraine the same way in the middle of it?

  119. 119
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Quinerly:
    These days, it’s tough to get good help.

  120. 120
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Immanentize: Does attorney/client privilege extend to Giuliani’s (alleged) conversations with DoS? Isn’t there some law about private citizens conducting diplomacy?

  121. 121
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    I do wonder if that’s the real reason they haven’t been able to conclude a trade deal with China.

  122. 122
    satby says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: so good! A bit of a hike from your place though. Maybe we should do a juice meetup!

  123. 123
    Quinerly says:

    @Amir Khalid: want to be creeped out? Say, “Alexa, ask The Listeners,” 

  124. 124
    Raven says:

    Man what a week! Brother in from LA for the Notre Dame game a week ago already. Now I’m wrapping up the Louisiana trip with a 3 hr wait in the Easy Airport. I see nothing much happened while I was gone

  125. 125
    Baud says:

    @Raven:

    Enjoying retirement?

  126. 126

    @JPL: It took me forever to get that. By “hyphen,” he means the apostrophe he stuck at the end of “liddle.” He’s probably trying to do something like Lil’. It’s like trying to decipher hieroglyphics.

  127. 127
    hueyplong says:

    Should we assume Nunes spouts what unfiltered Trump instructions sound like when unedited by adult human intelligence?

  128. 128
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Raven: Couple of slow news days, no big. Catch much?

  129. 129

    @Immanentize: I wonder who’s paying for those rallies, frex.

  130. 130
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: I am trying to remember how exactly things went down: When the FBI seized Cohen’s records, and the prosecutors and trump’s lawyers went thru them to decide what was privileged and what wasn’t, Cohen had yet to be convicted of any crimes. In the end he plead guilty to 8 counts including “and one count of making an excessive campaign contribution at the request of a candidate (Trump) for the “principal purpose of influencing [the] election”**

    I’m not sure about the ins and outs here but it certainly sounds like they knew a crime had been convicted, that Cohen had taken part in it, seized the records of it, and then got it into the prosecutions case against him, before anything had been proven in a court of law. So I am cornfused (not unusual when it comes to matters of law)

    **wikipedia

  131. 131
    Quinerly says:

    Deep Whistle went to the CIA first: “The intelligence community whistleblower, identified as a CIA officer, initially took his allegations to the agency’s general counsel, only deciding to lodge his now-famous complaintwhen he realized that the general counsel had alerted the White House.”
    TPM, NYT

  132. 132
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Boy, whoever runs Merriam-Webster’s social media needs a raise.

    For those looking up punctuation early on a Friday morning:A hyphen is a mark – used to divide or to compound words.An apostrophe is a mark ' used to indicate the omission of letters or figures.— Merriam-Webster (@MerriamWebster) September 27, 2019

  133. 133
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Quinerly: She left out the “to die”.

  134. 134
    Baud says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    M-W has been amazing throughout the Trump era.

  135. 135
  136. 136
  137. 137
    Baud says:

    @Quinerly:

    Josh does good work, and I’m probably out of touch, but why embed tweets in a news story instead of just incorporating the information into the story?

  138. 138
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Ken: someone paged me?

  139. 139
    RAVEN says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Well, I got a 60lb yellowfin on the offshore trip but everything else was Bonita and small tuna that went back in. The captain and mate worked their asses off to get us on fish but they just didn’t hit that well. That size tuna is great and we all got about 15 lbs of that to take home so it wasn’t a total bust. The boat was insane, huge and fast so that was fun. We decided to do an inshore the next day and, again, we caught a couple of big reds, sheepheads and trout. My buddies were fine with whole thing so we had a great time with not as much fish as hoped for. Yesterday we went to the WW2 museum and just did the Pacific Wing. It’s pretty stark but interesting and I filled in as a docent. Some great food and a little music and heading home.

  140. 140
    Capri says:

    @Kay: I think that’s why unsubscribe from the NYTimes is getting traction. From the outside they really seem to be active participants in this scheme.

  141. 141
    RAVEN says:

    @Baud: I’m going to try to get going with something when I get home. The last week was more of the present to myself and I just kind of fiddled around so now we’ll see what gives. The 1st is the actual official date, I’ve been on leave this month.

  142. 142
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: We need a Rosetta stone.

  143. 143

    @Baud:

    Also, it’s hard to believe Trump’s efforts to manipulate the election are limited to Ukraine.

    A fair point, but his primary allies Russia and Saudi Arabia he gets to talk to in person and don’t require any pushing. Ukraine is an unusual case not just because of Hunter Biden, but he believes Hillary’s hard drive full of 30,000 emails that prove she’s a criminal is hidden there. Man, I wish that was a joke.

    @Baud:

    I’m sure the Patriot Farmers would love to learn that Trump drove them to bankruptcy in order to have leverage to coerce China to investigate Biden.

    Naah. The dumb fuck truly, in a ‘conservatism cannot fail’ way, believes in tariff-driven trade wars, the trade deficit, that entire line. Like racism, it’s one of the things he’s said for decades.

  144. 144

    @satby: A meetup would be lovely! I’m still cautious about driving around Chicago. I lived in Iowa too long.

  145. 145
    Quinerly says:

    If you have the stomach for it, read Rudy’s Tweets from yesterday. He was on Laura Ingraham’s show last night. Looks like he removed a few tweets I saw yesterday. I don’t tweet so really don’t follow anyone regularly. The response are hilarious. There is one guy who tweets back to him on every thread “Cousin Fucker.”

  146. 146
    Gin & Tonic says:

    A very good overview of the situation from a Ukrainian perspective (in English.) Davidzon has been an astute analyst and a clear writer. Interesting that he calls Trump “our first Central Asian President.”

  147. 147
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Baud:
    Nowadays a lot of news sites also add a video to the story. This annoys the heck out of me: the video needlessly uses up bandwidth and takes time to sit through, when I can get the same information much faster by just reading the text story.

  148. 148
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: 17 years out here and every time I’m in STL it’s white knuckles all the way.

  149. 149
    Kraux Pas says:

    Naah. The dumb fuck truly, in a ‘conservatism cannot fail’ way, believes in tariff-driven trade wars, the trade deficit, that entire line. Like racism, it’s one of the things he’s said for decades.

    Considering his one-sided bargaining approach, it’s not hard to believe he would add “dirt on my opponents” to his already undoubtedly outlandish list of demands on trade.

  150. 150
    artem1s says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    My Spousal Unit, on the other hand, thinks it means Mitt *still* images he can run for president and win this time, as the True GOP Alternative to the parvenu currently stinking up the Oval Office.

    I agree. Mitt’s been waiting around for the GOP to come to it’s senses and appoint him VP when they finally see the light about Donny and Dense. You know he will be elbowing his way to the front of the line if ever the 25th comes into play. He’s such a clueless git.

  151. 151
    Kay says:

    @Capri:

    I think their political coverage sucks, but I don’t object to them revealing details about the whistleblower. I think it’s news.

    Of course, they’re horrible because they were all outraged when Castro “revealed” Trump donors, which is a public record, so their prior actions go against their whistleblower reveal, but still. If the base question is “should they reveal what they know about the whistleblower?” the answer for me is “yes”.

  152. 152
    rikyrah says:

    @Quinerly:
    Morning to Poco and the tribe 🤗😻🐢

  153. 153
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Kay:

    I think it’s news.

    Why?

  154. 154

    I’m beginning to think Giuliani is secretly funded by the Democrats. Every time he runs his mouth, he makes things worse for Trump.

  155. 155
    Kay says:

    This was kind of nice. As I said here, we did a D straw poll at a fair for 5 nights. We did a total every night and put that up at the booth and it was kind of fun- people were engaged, talking about the candidates. Anyway, a reporter for the local paper saw the tally sheet one night when he was at the fair and he emailed and asked for the vote totals. They’re going to print them. This is an R county and we complain that they don’t cover D stuff so I was pleased. I sent a picture of the actual tally, which I added up. Biden won, Bernie second, Warren way behind those two but third, Mayor Pete and Harris w/in a couple of each other. The local paper is popular. Everyone reads it.

  156. 156
    Kathleen says:

    @Betty Cracker: Also when they get message from donors that Trump has outlived his usefulness.

  157. 157
    rikyrah says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    @Ken: Giuliani has taped phone calls and text messages from the State Department

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA H AH

    I’ve said it all along..Dolt45 isn’t noble. Don’t know how to spell noble. If he’s going down..

    HE’S TAKING EEEERRRRRRRRRBODY with him.

    and, that means YOU, Race Bannon.

  158. 158
    Kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Because the whistleblower is central to the story. I don’t think he/she is promised anonymity – they’re promised something better- legal protections.

    I think they planned this carefully (which I’m happy about) and they probably considered all the ramifications.

    I know the messenger is terrible and not (in my view) credible as far as motives or incentives but I don’t find the thing itself offensive or out of bounds.

  159. 159
    Leto says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Bit of reporting from the time (via WaPo):

    Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III obtained court-approved warrants to search the emails of President Trump’s attorney Michael Cohen in July 2017 as his office investigated whether Cohen had illegally worked for foreign entities, according to newly unsealed documents illustrating how the investigation moved quickly and quietly to scour the digital trails of the president’s associates.

    The search warrants unsealed Tuesday in Cohen’s case offer new insight into how Mueller and his team handed off a key part of the Cohen investigation to federal prosecutors in New York in early 2018 and how much evidence prosecutors already had against Cohen even before they searched his office, home and hotel room last April. They also serve as a detailed reminder of the broad array of wrongdoing of which Cohen was accused and to which he eventually pleaded guilty.

    The first warrant obtained by the special counsel’s office was dated July 18, 2017, and sought Cohen’s emails. A second warrant less than a month later sought the cloud backup files related to his phones. A third warrant sought by Mueller’s office sought Cohen emails dating to June 2015.

    Investigators were especially interested in how Cohen had apparently lied to banks — claiming he could not pay back loans as quickly as they would have liked — while pocketing hundreds of thousands of dollars from companies such as AT&T, Novartis and even an investment-management firm linked to a Russian national. Prosecutors in New York have since alleged Cohen was charging enormous sums while performing minimal work.

    The warrants describe Cohen’s false statements to financial institutions about the purpose of Essential Consultants — the Cohen firm that took payments from AT&T, Novartis and the Russian national — as well as “activities undertaken by Cohen on behalf of certain foreign persons or foreign entities without having registered as a foreign agent,” one of the documents says. Another document says the payments, including from international clients, were for consulting on “issues pending before the Trump administration.”

    The documents show that the special counsel’s office was investigating Cohen for allegedly making false statements to a financial institution and suspected bank and wire fraud — as well as possible money laundering and violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. Cohen was not a registered lobbyist, nor had he registered under the Foreign Agents Registration Act, authorities alleged.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/mueller-began-investigating-michael-cohens-phone-and-digital-data-months-before-fbi-raid-warrants-show/2019/03/19/9e936cc2-49b5-11e9-b79a-961983b7e0cd_story.html

    They didn’t have to allege, they knew. They had the documents/records to show he lied. He was lying to prosecutors, banks, everyone, and they had the receipts to prove it.

  160. 160
    Calouste says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Romney doesn’t have a conscience, he just sees an opportunity to run for President again.

  161. 161
    Quinerly says:

    @Kay: agree 100% with you.

  162. 162
    Leto says:

    @Kay: Personally I object to it. Remember the anonymous Op-Ed, “We are the people at the wheel controlling everything, don’t worry!”? How about any of the, “senior officials”, who are quoted? They’ll protect them, but this person? How about the high level operative we had in Russia who had to be exfiltrated in 2017, was living anonymously in DC, and was then outed… there was no reason to give details about this person except to help the administration. In both cases, whistle blower and operative, it puts them and their families at risk. And right now, you’re trusting Bill Barr’s DoJ to provide “legal protection”. Good luck with that.

  163. 163
    Kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Unlike some here, I don’t think media have an ideological or broad agenda. I think instead that what we’re seeing is ordinary career promotion that is worse than it used to be because they are conducting these whole lucrative, individual side businesses alongside their reporting work and it doesn’t work. I think they’re conflicted. They’re all pushing books and appearances! They are individual “brands” at this point. I saw Peter Baker on cable last night and he is analyzing this whole thing in the frame of the BOOK he’s pushing, which is about impeachment. His commentary served effectively to minimize Trump’s behavior because he’s not talking about news, he’s talking about the “history” book he wrote.

    They have to do something about this. These people can’t do their jobs because they have other, much more lucrative jobs on the side.

  164. 164
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Kay:

    Because the whistleblower is central to the story.

    No, he/she isn’t. The report is central to the story. It lays out facts and allegations which can and should be verified. His/her identity adds nothing. So it turns out to be career CIA employee John Smith – how do you or I evaluate that fact? We don’t know this person from Adam. Bill Barr we know something about, so we can make our own judgment as to whether he’s telling the truth or has other motives. This person? We know nothing about them, and after they are identified we will still know nothing about them.

  165. 165
    p.a. says:

    Someone made the comment that they were surprised at how fragile US institutions seem to be, compared to the CW, and I agree. Imagine the results if these people were competently evil. Not that there isn’t tremendous damage already.
    In some ways, this goes back to Ford’s Nixon pardon. Some of the same aging scumbags involved, seeding new generations, assuming no consequences.

  166. 166
    KATHY QUINERLY says:

    @rikyrah: Tail wags, soft meows, waves back!
    Related, might be the last morning here for John Lennon’s soft meows. He is so very lonesome and I have become so allergic to him. He is probably going to live with my very best gal pal and her sweet Tinker Bell kitty, starting tonight. She just moved from an apartment to a house and is settled into a great situation for years to come. I’m gearing up for more travel (will be gone 5 weeks in about 2 weeks and then 7 weeks starting the end of January). He’s all by his lonesome here now that Ivan died when I’m gone. It just doesn’t seem fair. My friend is probably a better kitty mom than I anyway. Very doting on Tinker Bell. JL will be spoiled rotten, plus he’s getting a younger girlfriend in Tinks. 💜💛💙💚❤️

  167. 167
    NotMax says:

    Tuckered out from two hours (1 – 3 a.m.) of shoving furniture around in order to accommodate a surprise addition to the abode’s inventory. Need to make some delayed dinner, and a good stiff drink wouldn’t hurt either.

  168. 168
    Kay says:

    @Leto:

    And I agree with that criticism. That they’re hypocrites who pick winners and losers in the “reveal” game and it’s fair to say that indicates bias or an agenda, particularly given their past work. I just think the whistleblower will be revealed and the whistleblower knows that.

  169. 169
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Leto:

    They didn’t have to allege, they knew. They had the documents/records to show he lied. He was lying to prosecutors, banks, everyone, and they had the receipts to prove it.

    As I understand it, in our system of law, everything is alleged until proven in a court of law. What they did in this case is show a judge a preponderance of evidence that Cohen was involved in crimes and the judge or judges signed off on the multiple warrants.

    But again, that’s not proof of criminal activity. In fact the whole purpose of the search warrants was to find more evidence of criminal activity, evidence that would that would add up to “beyond a reasonable doubt.”.

    Or to put it another way, maybe I is cornfused.

  170. 170
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Tim Murphy
    @timothypmurphy
    ·18h
    I didn’t do it, I’m innocent, all the witnesses should die

    BWA HA HA HAHA HA AHH A

  171. 171
    NotMax says:

    @Gin & Tonic

    Certain to have a chilling effect on future whistles being blown.

  172. 172
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    These people are essentially giant infants. He’s in trouble so he’s hoping everyone who can nail him DROPS DEAD.

    “Then everyone died. The End”. It’s like listening to huge, ugly 3 year olds.

  173. 173
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Dear Black Jesus……if there’s a call with China too?

    Uh uh uh

  174. 174
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    THAT’S NOT EVEN A HYPHEN, YOU DUMB FUCK!!1!

  175. 175
    rikyrah says:

    @Baud:

    @Kay: That would be great. I’m sure the Patriot Farmers would love to learn that Trump drove them to bankruptcy in order to have leverage to coerce China to investigate Biden.

    That would be so wickedly wonderful. A great punch in their face. More salt in their wounds.

  176. 176
    Leto says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I can’t wait to get to the part of the story where we’ve id’d the person, gone through their emails, their texts, had the president* smear them across every media platform, have the FTFNYT repeat the smears, find out that their grandfather once made a donation to Harry Truman’s campaign… I wonder if Kay has the same “I don’t mind they outed him” attitude towards, say, the mafia informants who turned on their crime syndicates and kept their anonymity? Per her reasoning here, it would have been perfectly A-OK for the FTFNYT to publish that person’s identity, regardless of the harm it did.

    At this point, the Trumpov WH has to know who the person is. There can’t be that many CIA operatives who were assigned to/near the WH at this time, who then moved back to the CIA. And, again, putting your trust in Bill Barr’s DoJ to protect this person is ludicrous.

  177. 177
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: Because Twitter is a virus.

  178. 178
    Leto says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I look at this way: it’s what our BJ lawyers tell us all the time about prosecutors who ask questions: They don’t ask the question unless they already know the answer. All of the subpoenas they were granted were based on enough solid evidence for the judge to grant a go ahead. Again, IANAL just like you. If I’m wrong, Kay or Imm will point out my/our flaws and set the record straight. I don’t think we should trust Where in the World is Steven San Diego, but that’s just a given. :P

  179. 179
    Jay C says:

    @artem1s:

    I agree. Mitt’s been waiting around for the GOP to come to it’s senses and appoint him VP when they finally see the light about Donny and Dense. You know he will be elbowing his way to the front of the line if ever the 25th comes into play. He’s such a clueless git.

    True, but he may not be too far wrong in this case. Assuming that Donny Littlefingers gets the boot (G*d willing), one of the first things a President Pence would have to do is send up a nom for VP that would be acceptable to both House and Senate, i.e. a “respectable” Republican with minimal Trump-taint. (and if a Senator, one whose departure won’t flip a seat) And, sad commentary on our political structure as it may be, old Willard IS the first name that comes to mind.

  180. 180
    Wakeshift says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Why buy the cow when we get the milk for free?

  181. 181
    rikyrah says:

    @Baud:

    @Kay:

    I do wonder if that’s the real reason they haven’t been able to conclude a trade deal with China

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  182. 182
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Betty Cracker: “very legal and very good”

    God in a basket, I consider the paucity of his prose and utter bankruptcy of his cranial function to be impeachable territory. I find it offensive on every level that we went from President Obama to this leering, snuffling, imbecilic baboon, just because White America had a race-based temper tantrum. May every Trump voter, and I include my own family among them, rot in their own personal Hell for inflicting this obscenity on a suffering world.

  183. 183
    rikyrah says:

    @Quinerly:

    Deep Whistle went to the CIA first: “The intelligence community whistleblower, identified as a CIA officer, initially took his allegations to the agency’s general counsel, only deciding to lodge his now-famous complaintwhen he realized that the general counsel had alerted the White House.”
    TPM, NYT

    This person truly believed that this was a crime. Also, going to more places means less probability of it being buried.

  184. 184
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Leto: OH is right.

  185. 185
    SWMBO says:

    @Kay: Part of their reasoning is based on the case against Jeffrey Epstein. When he died, the case against him was closed by a judge. No setting aside the favorable deal and finding out who he was protecting. The rich guys got away with it and the judge buried it for them. The case was dismissed and these women will never have their day in court.
    In other words, if the whistleblower dies, they really believe that it gets dismissed and all goes away.

  186. 186
    rikyrah says:

    @Baud:

    M-W has been amazing throughout the Trump era.

    their shade has been consistent and brutal

  187. 187
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @SWMBO: …wouldn’t the Epstein equivalent here be a situation where Trump dies? (I’m actually kind of scared of that now: Trump dying is the twist most likely to make everyone try to forget any of this ever happened and avoid any further lessons, reforms or convictions. I guess it did work out differently with Warren G. Harding.)

  188. 188
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kay:

    the Biden smear

    Robert Ludlum’s latest.

  189. 189
    prostratedragon says:

    @debbie: Please tell me we won’t be doing this in 113 years!

  190. 190
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It’s like trying to decipher hieroglyphics.

    Rosetta Stone. Roger’s older, smarter sister.

  191. 191
    J R in WV says:

    @Quinerly:

    @Amir Khalid:So I tried it out and I just said, “Alexa, order more brain bleach.” She has put a coffee mug in my cart. It says, “More Brain Bleach.”

    That’s almost scary smart, really. The singularity may be named Alexa, and may have already arrived. Thanks Mr Bezos!!

  192. 192
    J R in WV says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Nowadays a lot of news sites also add a video to the story. This annoys the heck out of me: the video needlessly uses up bandwidth and takes time to sit through, when I can get the same information much faster by just reading the text story.

    Our very nearly paid-off home mortgage includes something called an escrow account, from which the home owners insurance and real estate taxes are paid, to protect the bank’s interest in the home being repairable and not being sold for back taxes. So each year the payment amount can change if either the taxes of the insurance bill amount changes.

    Today I get an email from the bank with an embedded video about “your escrow account” – not a letter with the details and numbers, a video. I was one click away from filing a complaint with the CFPB about the idiocy of a bank sending me a video about my account with them. Furious, I was, and am. Morons! Sending millions of videos instead of just a letter.

    What a waste! Won’t be watching their stupid video. Still pondering filing a complaint. I hear excessive bandwidth is causing global climate change!All those hot servers!!

  193. 193
    sgrAstar says:

    @Leto: 👍

  194. 194
    SWMBO says:

    @Matt McIrvin: The judge in the Epstein case said that all further legal matters were closed upon his death. These bozos probably assume the same with the whistleblower. It’s not like anyone else had anything to say about this complaint. Nope. One and done. Get rid of the whistleblower and the rest will stay silent.

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