Horses’ Asses (Open Thread)

Welp, Trump just had another Lester Holt moment, basically admitting on camera to extorting Ukraine:

Let’s talk about that, but first, let’s discuss Trump’s fucking posture, a continuation of my Twitter musings this morning:

It’s a minor thing to complain about — a corrupt, incompetent, traitorous authoritarian wannabe’s posture. But it has always bothered me, just as everything about Trump’s corporeal manifestation irritates me, albeit far less than the (presumably) Cheeto-scented emanations from his anus-like mouth perturb all decent people.

Why can’t he stand like a normal person? Why can’t any of them stand like normal people?

I’ll say this much for Ivanka: at least her posture doesn’t cry out for added fetlocks. But the adult male Trumps are apparently two-legged centaurs.

My recollection of high school Greek mythology is hazy, but I don’t think the creatures’ contributions to the pantheon were altogether positive. Make of that what you will, including a foreshadowing that Trump would attempt to extort Ukrainian President Zelensky to rig the 2020 election.

Open thread!






231 replies
  1. 1
    Mowgli says:

    I had a lovely “horse’s ass” comment ready to go but it’s not working for me. I’ll just sigh and hope for sanity.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    If Congress didn’t allocate it, where’d the extra $ 140 million come from for Ukraine?

  3. 3
    westyny says:

    Hahahaha! There’s never enough BC artwork.

  4. 4
    chopper says:

    combination of lifts and likely some kind of girdle to keep the belly in check. compared to his typical hunchy slouch, i can’t tell which is more gross.

  5. 5
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rikyrah: I read somewhere the State Department came up with the $140M…the same State Department that arranged Giuliani’s travel (on our dime, I’m guessing) and meetings with Ukrainian officials to harangue them about investigating the Bidens.

  6. 6
    MelissaM says:

    I think he drummed it into the boys on how to stand and comport themselves if they want to be Wi(e)nners like himself. In that shot they are both very shoulders back, boobs out. And I do mean boobs.

  7. 7
    dmsilev says:

    I’m having a flashback to a high-school literature class, where we were studying Dante’s Inferno. Centaurs show up in one of the middle circles of Hell, and I pointed out in the discussion that they weren’t damned souls but instead were part of the staff. At which point a classmate noted that they really should be wearing leather (!) jackets with ‘STAFF’ written on the back.

    What this has to do with Trump, I have no idea. Well, wait. How many circles of Hell would Trump occupy? “All of them, Katie” comes to mind as a reasonable first approximation.

  8. 8
    Bex says:

    He must always be taller than Obama.

  9. 9
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    And Weld just called for his prosecution, and if found guilty, execution. Seems a little over the top to me, but might move the Overton window on the topic. As to Hair Drumpf’s posture, whaddya expect when he has a ten foot pole up his ass?

  10. 10
    jl says:

    Thanks… I guess…. for the Lady Cracker artwork, which permanently impressed the odd posture in my memory.

    Not sure if Jonathan Winters is playing a faun or a satyr, but a respite a link below:
    Jonathan Winters On Jack Paar
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zrhnMUhKzI

  11. 11
    Fair Economist says:

    @MelissaM: Or maybe the Traitor-in-Chief got his boys to wear lifts too, and that pushes them into the same boobs-and-butts-out posture.

    Ivanka may look less odd only because dressed-up women normally wear heels and so we expect to see them in that posture anyway.

  12. 12
    Gin & Tonic says:

    “Why would you give money to a country that you think is corrupt”? Shall we go down the list of US direct foreign aid and/or military assistance recipients? Why would you give money *and troop deployments* to a country that murders and dismembers journalists? Why would you give money to a country that practices apartheid?

    And what Joe Biden was doing wrt Ukraine was calling for the sacking of one of its most corrupt functionaries. If you were at all serious about combating corruption, you would have understood and supported that.

    My blood pressure is rising, this is not good.

  13. 13
    Lapassionara says:

    I have seen this photo on Twitter, and the person who tweeted it said that it looks like Trump is wearing some kind of brace. He claims it is evidence of his encroaching dementia. But that doesn’t explain the way the sons stand.

  14. 14
    Betty Cracker says:

    PS: In the video up top, watch Pompeo straining not to bust a ‘roid while Trump mentions US “money” and alleged Ukrainian “corruption” in the same sentence. Like Trump, Pompeo is evil, but unlike Trump, he’s not stupid, so he perceives this may prove problematic.

    I’m not sure what their endgame is here. Trump has said he may release a transcript of his “perfect call” with Zelensky, but he lies all the time and has teased the release of plenty of things that remain under wraps, like his tax returns and Melania’s immigration papers. The question is whether he overtly shakes Zelensky down in that one particular call or not.

    That question isn’t important from an “impeach the motherfucker” standpoint; that threshold was reached long ago, IMO, and encouraging Zelensky to investigate Biden is collusion with a foreign power to rig an election all by itself, even without the dangled funds. I’m just curious about how this will play out. Clearly the whistleblower complaint is damning, and they’ll never release it willingly. The call? Who knows.

  15. 15
    Kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I’ve decided to look at it as a good thing. Knowing is better than not knowing. Now we know two things- this is how they plan to take out Biden and we’re going to get another “but her emails” cycle from media.

    It is. It exists. This is the environment Democrats have to operate in. Their best bet is to operate as a team and defend Biden because if it isn’t Biden they’re next. I don’t know if they can or will do this, but they should.

  16. 16
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: A couple of days ago a commenter wondered whether Giuliani’s, some say drunken, admissions on Chris Cuomo show would get him fired. And I responded that the only reason that would happen is if Trump was angry because Giuliani upstaged him by scooping him in spilling the beans. And I think events have been consistent with that idea.

    Trump is flat out admitting it. I heard a news clip of him babbling about it over the weekend, where he claimed that the smear on Biden was an ongoing humongous scandal in Ukraine. Cracker put up concerned post yesterday about how the Dems, and forces for civil society could lose this one. I think that was too much concern. if Trump is going to repeatedly admit his crimes in public, and add laughable new smears every time he does so, he’ll make the scandal worse.

  17. 17
    JoyceH says:

    Tell you what I can’t unsee. Someone on Twitter said that Trump sits on every chair like he’s sitting on a toilet. It’s true. He’s got a world leader visiting and they’re doing that “two chairs by the fireplace” photo-op (and Obama always looked so dang elegant in those photos!) – and Trump is sitting there hunched forward like he’s taking a dump.

  18. 18
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’m sure there’s a transcript of the call in Kyiv, too. Probably one in Moscow as well. If Ukraine thinks it’s getting screwed, who knows what happens with their transcript (although I have not yet seen any intimations of threats from that direction.)

  19. 19
    Kay says:

    I think the lifts in his shoes (which seem obvious to me) are important re: Trump because think how fragile he is- he’s a tall person! He doesn’t need them. But “tall” isn’t enough. He has to do this pathetic lie and add 2 inches. Like how he and that crazy doctor lied about his weight.

    The lies are a reflex. They are HIM. Every single aspect of this person is a lie. Some are harmless and vain, some are harmful, but they MAKE UP this person.

  20. 20
    feebog says:

    The laughable thing about this whole treasonous episode is that Biden likely will not be the candidate. They are spending a lot of time and effort to trash Biden via his son while Warren slips in under the radar.

  21. 21
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @jl:

    the smear on Biden was an ongoing humongous scandal in Ukraine

    Narrator: It isn’t.

  22. 22
    trollhattan says:

    “Succession” has become my guilty pleasure and I alternate between it presenting the Murdochs and the Trumps. When good ol’ dad backhanded Roman and knocked out a tooth, confess I imagined Fred Sr. doing it to Donny.

  23. 23

    Its not just while standing, he sits like that too hunched forward. Check out his Oval office photos with other dignitaries.

  24. 24
    MattF says:

    Looks like lifts to me. And Daddy has to be taller than his sons and taller than Obama, so his lifts are higher than they ought to be for a plausibly human posture.

  25. 25
    jl says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Probably can monitor how much Trump is damaging himself by how much Fox News has to edit out of his babble. Maybe a front poster can do that, if Cole doles out hazard pay.

    I’d like to see how the corrupt flunky NYT Vogel can gin up a fake ongoing current billion dollar Biden family scandal in Ukraine.

  26. 26
    trollhattan says:

    @feebog:
    Excellent! Just as we planned it. [in Monty Burns voice, rubbing hands together]

    If they’re not scared shitless about Warren yet, then double-good. “Give me two ‘Pocahontases,’ three ‘low-energies,’ and a ‘nasty woman’ and we’re good.”

  27. 27
    trollhattan says:

    @MattF:
    Did he borrowsteal them from li’l Marco?

  28. 28
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: Bingo. Giuliani specifically outlined the media strategy in an interview this morning (video at TPM) and telegraphed Emails 2:

    During an interview with Fox Business Network host Maria Bartiromo on Monday morning, Giuliani referred to Biden’s son Hunter Biden as “drug challenged” before floating that he had more news on the Biden family that he intended to release in the coming days.

    “There’s a lot more evidence I’m going to put out. I put one out for today, money laundering. I’ve got a bigger one for tomorrow and the day after,” he said.

    I’m sure he’s full of shit as always, but that’s the playbook. Some folks are asking if Trump really wants to go there since his own adult children are openly profiting from his presidency, but they’re missing the point, IMO. The strategy is to make the public think Trump’s opponents are as sleazy as Trump. That’s it.

  29. 29
    jl says:

    @feebog: Trump think he can sink Warren with Pocahontas chants, and any new mean names he can think. Maybe he’ll think of something really clever that come natural to him, like ‘dumb Okie’

    Edit: typoed ‘Biden’ instead of ‘Warren’ but fixed it.

  30. 30
    Kay says:

    They’re political professionals so maybe some ambitious Democrat is already doing this, but it seems to me that analyzing why Trump lies or the lies themselves is not worthwhile anymore. He’s a liar. The majority of people polled say they know he’s a liar. So the question for the opposition becomes “how do people respond to liars?” How do people navigate a liar once they’re convinced he is one? What changes about their relationship with him? It has to have been studied.

    Don’t focus on him. Focus on how people perceive him and how they adjust to the fact that the President of the United States lies to them every day. He stays the same. Liar. That’s what we know. What changes in the public? It’s not 2016. They know he’s a liar now. Have THEY changed to acommodate that reality? How?

  31. 31
    Dork says:

    @feebog: You’re assuming the “whistleblower” isn’t in the Warren camp. If so, who’s playing 4d chess here? Warren, Biden or Trump?

  32. 32
    lumpkin says:

    Maybe just the camera perspective but Ivanka looks like a pinhead.

  33. 33
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Re: posture, I think he’s trying to do that Gorilla Dominance thing where you stick out your chest and stick out your butt, but he has such a big belly that it pulls him down, and the result from the side is a sort of inclined S-curve.

    And Trump Junior tries to do the chest-puff thing too because he’s a sad mimic of a terrible father who despises him.

  34. 34
    MattF says:

    @trollhattan: It’s notable that Trump always harps on an opponent being ‘little’.

  35. 35
    Brachiator says:

    My recollection of high school Greek mythology is hazy, but I don’t think the creatures’ contributions to the pantheon were altogether positive.

    Such terrible centaur shaming!

    The centaur Chiron was known for his great wisdom and was the tutor of the god of medicine Asklepios and the heroes Hercules, Achilles and Jason.

    Granted, many other centaurs had a bad reputation and, unlike Trump, liked to get drunk.

  36. 36
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maria Bartiromo

    It makes me sad that their may be some unfortunate and poorly-served senior citizens who actually make financial decisions based on this horrible hack’s “advice”. Good Lord.

    Anyway. They’re going after Biden’s son because they think his family is his achilles heel- which it is, obviously, listen to him, but Trump’s is too. Donald Trump cannot handle when his kids get attacked.

    He opened the door. Biden needs to go thru it. Trump is vulnerable on his kids. Go after them. Trump made them fair game.

  37. 37
    jl says:

    @Betty Cracker: Trumpsters have become over confident and think that they can spin anything. But sooner or later news media will have to choose between going to absurd lengths to ‘both-sides’ the scandal, or fronting for Trumpsters, and damaging themselves with the audience. Sooner or later they will have to choose, and they’ll choose where the immediate payout is, and try to avoid the contempt and loathing of their audience (except for Fox News, of course). It happened during Bush II administration, after its horrid malfeasance and incompetence became just too obvious to cover. And Bush II, bad as it was, looks like Washington, Lincoln and FDR wrapped up together compared to Trump.

    @Kay: Just do what Biden has done, respond immediately call Trump what he is: a lying liar.

  38. 38
    oldgold says:

    This is so damn backassward.

    Trump is defining and defending the “alleged” crime before the crime is charged or the facts underlying it are known.

    Worse, this morning Trump smeared the silenced Whistle Blower by questioning his/her loyalty to this country..

    Trump’s Tweet: “Is he on our Country’s side. [sic] Where does he come from.{sic]”

  39. 39
    The Moar You Know says:

    I have seen this photo on Twitter, and the person who tweeted it said that it looks like Trump is wearing some kind of brace.

    @Lapassionara: I’m pretty sure he’s in a bulletproof vest most of the time. Given what a raging asshole he is, and tries so hard to be, that would be a very smart move.

  40. 40
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    “There’s a lot more evidence I’m going to put out. I put one out for today, money laundering. I’ve got a bigger one for tomorrow and the day after,” he said.

    Jesus!

    Perpetual Trump asswipe Devin Nunes has also been on Fox News, claiming that the Ukraine bullshit will force Biden to drop out of the presidential race. The GOP once again is all in for Trump. They are willing to go down with him, no matter what. We need to make sure they get what they want.

  41. 41

    Balloon Juice hive mind. Why do you guys think that Orange T went to the Modi rally in Houston?
    I have seen this take in the Indian media and it makes no sense.

    Trump is also keen to win over the Indian community in Houston, a Democratic stronghold in the Republican-dominated Texas, a state that will be critical to the US leader in his 2020 reelection bid.”

  42. 42
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    If Trump thinks that calling someone’s kid “drug challenged” is the kiss of death in rust belt states he hasn’t been paying attention. This county went 70% Trump. We average a drug-related death every 2 weeks. I don’t think there’s a person in this county who hasn’t been to an overdose funeral. My middle son has been to FOUR.

  43. 43
    tokyokie says:

    Kirk Douglas wore lifts for most of his film career — except when Burt Lancaster hid them — and he never looked that awkward. I’d say der Trumpenführer should follow his example, but then Douglas has always been an unabashed liberal Democrat.

  44. 44
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @JoyceH: I’ll add to that for you. Look at Dump’s tiny hands with their stubby fingers when he’s sitting in his pooping position. (You’re welcome.)

    Bob Cesca calls his hand formation a dick tent.

  45. 45
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    He opened the door. Biden needs to go thru it. Trump is vulnerable on his kids. Go after them. Trump made them fair game.

    Absolutely.
    Tell it.

  46. 46
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    That makes no sense, indeed.

    Is it just his great affinity for dictators and authoritarians?

  47. 47
    trollhattan says:

    @The Moar You Know:
    He should keep a Kevlar bucket over his fat, orange head. Or Rick Moranis’ “Spaceballs” helmet.

  48. 48
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @trollhattan: Homer: Exactly. D’oh!

  49. 49
    Brachiator says:

    @Kay:

    Maria Bartiromo

    It makes me sad that their may be some unfortunate and poorly-served senior citizens who actually make financial decisions based on this horrible hack’s “advice”. Good Lord.

    She recently signed a new multi-year deal with Fox News. I guess she is good at reeling in the suckers.

  50. 50
    Amir Khalid says:

    I don’t undertand. How does a man as fat as Trump stand leaning forward like that without falling on his face?

  51. 51
    Ruckus says:

    @Chief Oshkosh:
    BTW that 10 foot pole is what he thinks the earth rotates about.
    Everything is about him, including the rotation of the earth………

  52. 52
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Since we’re talking about horses’ asses, may I put in a nomination for VP Mike Pounce, who — in defiance of a 120-year-old law and the precedent set by numerous sitting Presidents (not even Veeps!) — has shit all over Mackinac Island’s ban on motorised vehicles and took not only a car, but an eight-car motorcade to a Michigan GOP conference on the island. Michiganders are furious, and rightly so. What an entitled little prat.

  53. 53
    Amir Khalid says:

    @trollhattan:
    “No,Lord Helmet, I didn’t see you playing with your dolls again.”

  54. 54

    My recollection of high school Greek mythology is hazy, but I don’t think the creatures’ contributions to the pantheon were altogether positive.

    Centaurs were obsessed with boinking human women, and were generally boors. They weren’t stupid per se, but had no use for their brains. Charon was the major exception.

  55. 55
    divF says:

    @dmsilev: Trump would end up in Antenora.

  56. 56
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @trollhattan: I vote bucket. You can see Dark Helmet’s face in Spaceballs. We don’t need that for Dump. And associating Dump with Spaceballs would ruin the movie for, well, all of its fans.

  57. 57
    Jeffro says:

    @rikyrah: I hear you but I care more about the “why” $140M extra was thrown in, than where it came from.

    Trumpov sweetening the pot to make sure Ukraine came up with something, regardless of what they found/didn’t find?

  58. 58
    CarolPW says:

    @lumpkin: As someone who has seen her in person more than once told me, yes she is a pinhead. And goes to great length to get her hair fluffed up around her head to disguise it (doesn’t work).

  59. 59
    Kay says:

    @Brachiator:

    Can you imagine? If the economy starts to tank she has to lie about it. I don’t know- was it WISE to turn “the business channels” into an arm of the GOP spin machine? Jesus. What if someone thinks these people knows what they’re talking about and RELIES on it?

  60. 60
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I don’t undertand. How does a man as fat as Trump stand leaning forward like that without falling on his face?

    Years of experience?

  61. 61
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    How in the heck does Trump stand like that? High heels? He has his knees locks too.

  62. 62
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @lumpkin: Oh sure. Start the week with insulting the lead cenobite.

  63. 63
    Kay says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I love how we all had to pretend that doctor wasn’t crazy as a loon and that’s Trump’s actual weight.

    I will NOT. That’s not what he weighs! He can say it but I don’t have some “duty” to believe that bullshit. And I think the doctor is a hack. It’s not my fault he made himself into a hack. Not my concern. People make choices- that was his.

  64. 64
    leeleeFL says:

    @Lapassionara: There is early onset Alzheimer’s. Often it is hereditary. Just a thought

  65. 65
    Ruckus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    What an entitled little prat.

    Quiet now, he and mother are doing the lords work. Fucking up everything to create hell on earth. All the racists have filled the traditional hell so they needed a new one.

  66. 66
    The Moar You Know says:

    He should keep a Kevlar bucket over his fat, orange head. Or Rick Moranis’ “Spaceballs” helmet.

    @trollhattan: Yeah, but as we all know, the only thing on the planet stronger than Trump’s fear is his vanity. He’s not going to do anything to mess with that atrocity that some people might refer to as “hair”

    Bet there’s enough product up there to stop pretty much anything, he may well just not need the helmet.

  67. 67
    rikyrah says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    the level of disrespect is off the charts.

  68. 68
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Putin’s ass-scented Cheeto-scented emanations from his anus-like mouth

    Fixed.

  69. 69
    gene108 says:

    @rikyrah:

    The $4 billion in “wall” funds Trump has taken.

    Probably using it as a personal slush fund to dole out favors and/or demand obedience

  70. 70
    Sab says:

    @Bex: @Fair Economist: Who leans forward wearing heels? Mostly they make you a little swaybacked because you have to lean back on your heel instead of forward on your toes. (Been wearing them for 50 years, unfortunately)

  71. 71
    Ruckus says:

    @leeleeFL:
    trump wouldn’t be having early onset, his would be the real thing, normal Alzheimers. He is the right age, physically over 65. His emotional and intellectual age is 5. And I am doing two things there, dissing on 5 yr olds and giving him extra credit.

  72. 72
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Kay: Was it the old hippie or the Navy doc who said Dump was 239 kilos….errr….pounds?

  73. 73
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:
    When they shot the video for Smooth Criminal, Michael Jackson and the other dancers wore shoes that were attached to the floor so that they could sway at an otherwise impossible angle. You think maybe Trump … ?

  74. 74
    Elizabelle says:

    Betty Cracker:

    Thank you for that illustration. I expose myself to Trump as little as possible, but will never be able to unsee the horse’s ass poking out from behind his jacket.

    And he ain’t no Secretariat.

  75. 75
    Aleta says:

    Live link to the celebration of life for Juanita Abernathy (started earlier; still going on) at Friendship Baptist Church in Atlanta.
    http://www.11alive.com/article.....d540378f5b

  76. 76
    jonas says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Always interesting to see how Republicans can get away with the most boorish, privileged, elitist, “I-don’t-give-a-shit” behavior that would destroy the career of any Democrat who tried it. I guess it’s your position on guns that makes you a regular, salt-of-the-earth kind of guy, not whether you actually treat people in rural or midwestern states with the least modicum of respect.

  77. 77

    @zhena gogolia: I would keep a close watch on any T towers going up in India.

  78. 78
    Just One More Canuck says:

    Nice work with the Sharpie – you could be Trump’s mapmaker

  79. 79
    jl says:

    @trollhattan: ” He should keep a Kevlar bucket over his fat, orange head. ”

    Doesn’t Trump already kind of does that. It’s just color coordinated with Trump’s favorite hue, ‘spray tan bronze’

  80. 80
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @mrmoshpotato: It was the alcoholic Navy guy.

  81. 81
    clay says:

    @Kay:

    I don’t know- was it WISE to turn “the business channels” into an arm of the GOP spin machine?

    This implies that Fox Business was ever intended to NOT be GOP spin. Remember, this was the channel formed because CNBC was “too liberal”. It’s never been anything but a joke.

  82. 82
    Searcher says:

    As an aside, Trump and Kushner are both listed at 6′ 3″.

    It is *very* easy to find pictures with the two of them, and very rarely do they look the same height.

  83. 83

    @mrmoshpotato:
    The navy doc, but it wasn’t his measurements. They could be accurate, no matter how Trump looks. It was the ridiculous over-the-top phrasing that made the report a blatant lie. Healthiest president ever, that kind of thing. It read exactly like if Trump had written it, which presumably Trump did, rather than the boringly technical reassurance of good health most presidents get.

  84. 84
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Elizabelle:

    the horse’s ass poking out from behind his jacket.

    Yeah, that’s another thing. His jacket. It always has the ugliest, most unbecoming, embulkening profile. The way it flares out at the widest part of his hips and butt. That horrible droopy-boxy look. He’s a rich man, supposedly. Does he actually pay a tailor to create bespoke hideousness?

  85. 85
    Gravenstone says:

    @Lapassionara:

    But that doesn’t explain the way the sons stand.

    I’m willing to bet they had it beaten into them growing up not to “embarrass” dad. So when he started changing his posture, they may have adopted something similar so he didn’t stand out as much. It might be more telling to see how they look when he’s not with them. Ivanka has probably had some exposure to modeling, and that likely plays into the way she carries herself.

  86. 86
    Mike in NC says:

    @JoyceH: So true. I never watched his wretched reality shows, but Trump sits exactly like some constipated old man on his golden throne, trying to squeeze one out. So gross, but what else to expect?

  87. 87
    Searcher says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: So you know the cliched advice, “Dress for the job you want”?

    What job do you think Trump is going for? My guess is “crooked funeral home director, who steals your grandma’s jewelry.”

  88. 88
    Gravenstone says:

    @feebog: To be fair, they’re just working with the seeds Russia planted about Biden half a decade ago (see several of Adam’s posts on the subject). No doubt there are others working on how they’ll try to smear Warren (and Harris and Sanders (well maybe that one is already baked in), etc.).

  89. 89
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jonas:

    I can’t prove it, but I think it’s possible that Pence just lost a non-zero number of Trump 2020 votes in Michigan with his arrogance.

    Good.

  90. 90

    @Searcher:

    What job do you think Trump is going for?

    Fred Trump.

  91. 91
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: The media will let him smear people just so they can get the ratings. At this point Obama needs to speak about Biden’s trip to Ukraine just to shut trump up. The base might not believe it, but it will shut it down on TV. President Obama is more popular than the asshole in office.

  92. 92
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Searcher:

    What job do you think Trump is going for? My guess is “crooked funeral home director, who steals your grandma’s jewelry and the gold fillings in her teeth.

  93. 93
    JPL says:

    If trump gets away with this, he’ll threaten to bomb Sweden and Norway unless they give him the Nobel. It’s apparent that no one will stop him.

  94. 94
    japa21 says:

    Just a couple quick thoughts. We keep talking, as does the media and Trump, about his phone call with the president of Ukraine. I am not sure that is the call the whistleblower is talking about. Remember there was some mention of a promise. Unless Trump made a pretty unveiled threat , “I promise you that if you don’t cooperate…” then this may not be the call. The fact is involved Ukraine could very well mean it was a call with Putin where he promised to find a way to screw Ukraine.

    Just throwing this out there, but it is something I have been thinking about. Trump wants to keep the focus on this particular call because 1) it keeps Biden in the public eye in a way he hopes damages Biden and 2) he doesn’t want any conjecturing o another call.

  95. 95
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    He’s a rich man, supposedly. Does he actually pay a tailor to create bespoke hideousness?

    I’ve read somewhere that he thinks tailoring is only for people with unusual bodies and hence he wears expensive Brioni suits that are wholly unaltered because he is obviously a normal size. It is *exactly* the Trump signature mix of lavish and cheap.

  96. 96
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Besides being rude and ignoring the norm out of arrogance, I sort of gut-felt like he was delivering a political message. “The old rules don’t apply now” and “Parks should conform to what ‘we’ need, not the other way around.” The island is mostly a state park that was originally, briefly, a national park. Then it was turned over to the state. Could it be a reference to encourage those who want federal lands turned over to states, protections removed, resources taken?

    Karen Pence has been repackaged; they are revving up.

  97. 97
    LuciaMia says:

    Thanks, Betty, I needed that laugh.

  98. 98
    James E Powell says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Michiganders are furious, and rightly so. What an entitled little prat.

    But the white Michiganders will still vote R. Not because they like the Rs, but because they hate the Ds.

  99. 99
    cain says:

    @Kay:

    Don’t focus on him. Focus on how people perceive him and how they adjust to the fact that the President of the United States lies to them every day. He stays the same. Liar. That’s what we know. What changes in the public? It’s not 2016. They know he’s a liar now. Have THEY changed to acommodate that reality? How?

    Isn’t that what annoys the hell out of us when the NYT does it? Maybe we shouldn’t focus on Trump voters at all…

  100. 100
    LuciaMia says:

    @Searcher: He’s too dim for the head of Slytherin. Nah, I think Trump Jr. is vying for that position.

  101. 101
    JPL says:

    @Kay: Biden should say he’s a known liar, who ran a crooked foundation.

  102. 102
    Brachiator says:

    @Kay:

    Can you imagine? If the economy starts to tank she has to lie about it. I don’t know- was it WISE to turn “the business channels” into an arm of the GOP spin machine? Jesus. What if someone thinks these people knows what they’re talking about and RELIES on it?

    I recently commented here that Jim Cramer from CNBC said that investors should trust Trump over China on the economy. This is about as close to malfeasance as you can get. The most neutral financial advisor would say that an investor should depend on the most accurate information they can get.

    Maria and all these jokers have consistently lied in their analyses of the economy since Trump took office, and probably before as well. They mix their lies with straight reporting about the Dow, individual stocks, etc. They do gatekeeping to keep out anyone who might point out their lies or inconsistencies.

    If the FCC or financial regulators ever challenged them, they would claim that their analyses were opinion protected by the First Amendment, and did not have to be factually accurate. That’s pretty much how all these shows work.

  103. 103
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Centaurs are rapists.

  104. 104
    jl says:

    @japa21: I agree. That is a very good point. Important to remember that, from the leaks, there were at least eight related instances of troubling behavior in the whistleblower’s report. And the IG of intelligence found it within its purview, so one or more of those instances had to concern an intelligence matter. So, there is much more, and more serious, bad behavior involved than some threats made to Zelensky.

  105. 105
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: I’m a weight-truther too! :) My father, who is the same age as Trump and a couple of inches shorter, weighs about what Trump’s nutty doctor claims Trump weighs, and he (my dad) doesn’t have a fat ass, protruding gut nor jowly pumpkin of a head like Trump. Unfortunately, his politics are just as repellent!

  106. 106
    cain says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    It makes no sense. They already kinda have a lock on the state. Indians generally vote democratic and actually care about immigration issues foremost.

  107. 107
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Aleta:

    Oh, that’s a verrrry interesting take, and more than a little disconcerting.

    But I’m not sure what you mean by

    Karen Pence has been repackaged; they are revving up.

    I pay as little attention as possible to Mother; maybe that’s a mistake. Are they fluffing her as a soon-to-be First Lady, or what?

  108. 108
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Centaurs are rapists.

    Every nymph everywhere: #MeToo!

  109. 109
    sigyn says:

    @JoyceH: Hah! Now also trying to unsee that. Curse my vivid imagination!

  110. 110
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    It is *exactly* the Trump signature mix of lavish and cheap.

    Perfect.

  111. 111
    EthylEster says:

    Frontpager wrote:

    let’s discuss Trump’s fucking posture

    Eye bleach, stat!

  112. 112
    Olivia says:

    Betty, you have a real gift for drawing. Your depiction of a horse’s ass is perfect!

  113. 113
    guachi says:

    I saw the news item about Pence and Mackinac Island about 30 minutes after it happened and posted it to Facebook straight away. My wife and her family are Michiganders and my assumption is that it will play VERY badly with voters. It will be a great symbol of Trump’s disregard for norms and rules.

    If there is any time one act can lose a state, this is it. Especially as the people who go to and live in and around the Island are overwhelmingly white.

  114. 114
    J R in WV says:

    My favorite portrait of Trump is one I saw not long ago.

    His pursed mouth was posed quite carefully as the anus of a sharpie-drawn cat, looking back at the world from behind Trump’s mouth. At the time I thought it could be Betty Cracker’s best work, but now I’m not sure it was here. It sure was in the Cracker Style, though.

    And a perfect, wonderful, portrait of a very sick Trump.

  115. 115
    Spanky says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    How does a man as fat as Trump stand leaning forward like that without falling on his face?

    His ass weighs a literal ton.

  116. 116
    feebog says:

    @Ruckus:

    trump wouldn’t be having early onset, his would be the real thing, normal Alzheimers. He is the right age, physically over 65.

    Not sure about “normal Alzheimers” but there is no doubt Trump is slipping fast. I posted a clip from his impromptu gaggle on the White House lawn on my facebook page yesterday. Rambling, noticeable diminished vocabulary, circling back and repeating talking points. Much like my mother. Except mom is 96.

  117. 117
    opiejeanne says:

    @Gravenstone: Harris is being smeared by Wilmer’s fans already. “She’s a cop” is the way she’s being dismissed and there’s some lie going around today that she locked up somebody whose name I didn’t instantly recognize, but it wasn’t true.

  118. 118

    @Bobby Thomson:

    Centaurs are rapists.

    I thought about adding that, but every other man in Greek mythology is, too, and the legends don’t insist that’s the only way centaurs get what they want. I figured the point would get too far in the weeds when the thing that set centaurs apart was their obsession with sex.

  119. 119
    guachi says:

    The people attacking Harris for being a cop clearly never watched an episode of Law & Order.

    In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate but equally important groups: The police, who investigate crime, and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders.

  120. 120
    Betty Cracker says:

    @japa21: Yep:

  121. 121
    jl says:

    So, veep Pence was the bag man for the Ukrainian shake down?

    Pence Gave Ukraine the Message Too
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/pence-gave-ukraine-the-message-too

    Maybe Pelosi has been slow walking the impeachment because she had some heads up about the scheme, and wants to be first woman president, even if only for a few months. IIRC House Speaker is next in line after veep in case like this.

  122. 122
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @James E Powell:

    But the white Michiganders will still vote R. Not because they like the Rs, but because they hate the Ds.

    I’m not so sure. Michiganders are very protective of the Mackinac “no-cars” tradition. This could be a tipping point. I guess we’ll see how long their memories are, come November 2020.

  123. 123
    JoyceH says:

    @Searcher:

    As an aside, Trump and Kushner are both listed at 6′ 3″.

    It is *very* easy to find pictures with the two of them, and very rarely do they look the same height.

    Did you see the video of the family coming off Marine 1 when they returned from Bedminster? Barron is taller than Trump now.

  124. 124
    Jeffro says:

    I think our media needs to ask the very serious question: “What are the odds that one man would go up against not one but TWO of the most corrupt crime families in America, back to back? The Clinton Crime Cartel and the, um, er…Biden…Biden Bundle o’ Badness?”

    Amazing, isn’t it? Stupendous! It’s almost like…like in order to have a prayer of winning election/staying in power/staying out of jail…trumpov has to convince Americans that his opponent is just as rotten as he is. And then somehow we never get to the question of just how rotten he is.

  125. 125
    trollhattan says:

    @opiejeanne:
    Yesterday, I was instructed to “look at her record as CA AG” after I asked somebody why they thought she was such a meanie. Yes, and?

    It seemed both preemptive and reflexive at the same time, if that makes any sense. I could believe bored Wilmerites, although I’m not sure it’s she who’s taking the poll numbers out of his wrinkly hide.

  126. 126
    jl says:

    @jl:
    End of transcript of Pence’s statement: “But I assured him that the people of the United States stand with Ukraine for their sovereignty and territorial integrity. But I called on him to work with us to engage our European partners to participate at a greater level in Ukraine, and also told him that I would carry back to President Trump the progress that he and his administration in Ukraine are making on dealing with corruption in their country.”

    Emphasis added by Josh Marshall.

  127. 127
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jl:

    IIRC House Speaker is next in line after veep in case like this.

    Yup. There was a whole West Wing story arc based on exactly this (except it was 25th Amendment, not impeachment). John Goodman was wonderful as the Speaker-turned-President for those few episodes.

  128. 128
    jl says:

    @Jeffro: the corporate news media doesn’t give a shit until the money tells them to give a shit.

  129. 129
    Millard Filmore says:

    @japa21: There is some speculation over at democraticunderground.com …
    https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212488558 which links to here …
    https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100212485209 which links to here …
    https://mobile.twitter.com/jennycohn1/status/1175693284565323776

    The twitter link has a timeline of calls to Putin and the request Trump made for our list of spies in Russia.

  130. 130
    JoyceH says:

    @japa21:

    We keep talking, as does the media and Trump, about his phone call with the president of Ukraine. I am not sure that is the call the whistleblower is talking about.

    I’ve thought the same thing! In that same time period there was a phone call to Putin. Trump and all his henchmen may be going on and on the Ukraine phone call (and in the process confessing to impeachable offenses) to focus attention away from the Russia call. Instead of all these calls to release the transcript of the Ukraine call, lawmakers and news people should be insisting that the whistle blower complaint be turned over to Congress as the law requires.

  131. 131
    trollhattan says:

    @jl:
    Admit I’d love, love, love it if Trump threw Pence under the bus, or any bus, to save his own arse.

    “The vice president went behind my back to commit those crimes, which aren’t really crimes if a president does them but he’s not president. I’m very disappointed.”

  132. 132
    Elizabelle says:

    @jl: I am thrilled at the possibility of Madame President Pelosi.

  133. 133
    zhena gogolia says:

    I love this comment from Asha Rangappa:

    If it’s totally OK for Trump to use his presidential authority to privately pressure a foreign government to investigate an opponent, it is also OK for a VPOTUS acting on delegated presidential authority to publicly pressure a foreign government to fire a corrupt prosecutor. 1/

    6:29 AM – 23 Sep 2019
    1,053 Retweets3,766 LikesDismal ScientistcalicoMartha BurkeJoel ConnerNerd 45Carl MayoSir 💚PO TRUMP!!!evewasframedRicki Mayhall
    148 replies1,053 retweets3,766 likes
    Reply 148 Retweet 1.1K Like 3.8K

    Asha Rangappa

    Verified account

    @AshaRangappa_
    5h5 hours ago
    More
    This is the idiocy of Trump claiming unfettered presidential power to condemn and investigate his predecessors, whether it’s “spying,” foreign gov, etc.: If he is above the law bc he is POTUS, so were they! It’s like he thinks no one was POTUS before him. 🙄

  134. 134
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: It could be just for the VP campaign. Karen Pence started a twitter account a couple of days ago; spiffier yet warmer, new photos of their pets. I assume some donors and GOPers are thinking over the options if impeachment gets really real.

  135. 135
    Spanky says:

    @JoyceH:

    Did you see the video of the family coming off Marine 1 when they returned from Bedminster? Barron is taller than Trump now.

    Maybe he’s the son that hits back.

  136. 136
    artem1s says:

    @feebog:

    The laughable thing about this whole treasonous episode is that Biden likely will not be the candidate.

    Biden is primarily the Dem that R-voters who are disgusted with Dump will gravitate too. Biden was the guy GOPers who wanted to get back at W voted for. Not Obama. Biden was the guy who was ‘really’ in charge, in their racist addled minds. They all predictably voted R in the midterms. These are the elusive WWC guys that the FYNYT has been trying Dems to chase for the last 3 years. We don’t need them. Dump does. If he keeps losing ground in the polls in that particular demographic, it could encourage some establishment R with big name recognition to challenge him in the primary – even if it’s just for the grift – someone like Gingrich.

  137. 137
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Aleta:

    A spiffier, warmer Karen Pence? Two words: 🤮🤮

  138. 138
    japa21 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Actually not 25th Amendment issue. President Bartlet’s daughter had been kidnapped and he stepped aside until she was found because he realized he could not do an effective job of being President. Of course Goodman’s character was the exact opposite of Bartlet.

  139. 139
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Jeffro:

    somehow we never get to the question of just how rotten he is

    Trump: I was caught red handed in the middle of carrying out a crime spree. So why aren’t we investigating Biden?

  140. 140
    Jeffro says:

    How about that Bill Weld, hmm? Noting that the president* has committed treason (with attendant consequences) does help create some space for Dems, that’s for sure. Impeachment/removal or resignation looks pretty good by comparison, eh trumpov?

    Let’s hear it GOP: we’re still 14 whoppin’ months out from the election, you’ve got time to remove this cancer and just run one of your usual pustules instead. What do you say?

  141. 141
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Spanky:

    Maybe he’s the son that hits back.

    This made me laugh a little, but it also made me choke up a little. Barron has always come across to me (from the relatively few photographs of him) as rather unhappy and vulnerable. Even though I detest both his parents and all his half-siblings, I always feel a little bit protective of Barron. Maybe I’m completely misreading things, and maybe he’ll turn out to be a terrible person, but right now I wish him well and I hope he doesn’t get hurt too badly.

  142. 142
    jl says:

    What I think is going on, is that what Trump did was so bad and stupidly and clumsily and obviously bad (if he ever got caught), that they’d have to spin a whopper of a cover story. The way the cover story is going is that the Biden crime family is STILL involved in corrupt dealings in Ukraine. Or they will use that as a way to conflate the baseless smears of the old discredited story with baseless smears that the Biden badasses are doing dirty in Ukraine today.

    As some point laundering the BS gets so ridiculous and absurd, the corporate media just can’t peddle it any more without causing problems with the vast majority of their audience. As I noted, only thing that makes corporate news media give a shit is immediate money, and problems with credibility with audience leads to immediate money issues. Happened under Dub and at this rate, will happen under Trump.

  143. 143
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    When they shot the video for Smooth Criminal, Michael Jackson and the other dancers wore shoes that were attached to the floor so that they could sway at an otherwise impossible angle. You think maybe Trump … ?

    They nailed Trump’s shoes to the floor to keep from wandering out of the speach like he does with staff briefings?

  144. 144
    Millard Filmore says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    If he is above the law bc he is POTUS, so were they!

    You forgot the asterisk. “If he is above the law bc he is POTUS, so were they! *”

    [*] does not apply to Democratic presidents.

  145. 145
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    My father, who is the same age as Trump and a couple of inches shorter, weighs about what Trump’s nutty doctor claims Trump weighs,

    My son too. Except my son says what he actually weighs and Trump lies. Sorry. No fucking way.

    You know, Obama could have done this too. He could have lied about his nicotine addiction, but he didn’t.

    How vain do you have to be to put forth this obviously phony weight and then bully people for not accepting it? I’m not obligated to play this stupid game. I owe Donald Trump NOTHING.

  146. 146
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Barron is still a minor. None of this mess was his doing, and even if we knew anything about his current character, which we don’t, he is still a minor.

  147. 147
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @japa21:

    Well, the writers certainly framed it as a 25th Amendment issue, and called the pivotal episode “Twenty Five.”

    “Twenty Five” is the 88th episode and the season four finale of the American television series The West Wing. It takes its title from the Twenty-fifth Amendment to the United States Constitution, which deals with the presidential line of succession.

  148. 148
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jl:

    Exactly.

  149. 149
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @Kay:

    Can you imagine? If the economy starts to tank she has to lie about it. I don’t know- was it WISE to turn “the business channels” into an arm of the GOP spin machine? Jesus. What if someone thinks these people knows what they’re talking about and RELIES on it?

    Already happened. Cramer was advising people to hold Bear Stearns right up to the crash.

    “On March 11, 2008, Mad Money host Jim Cramer (who believe it or not is still on CNBC) told a viewer who wrote into his show, “Bear Stearns was fine!” right before the stock absolutely collapsed. The stock was trading at $62 per share. Just 5 days later, the firm was mercy folded into JPMorgan Chase (read: bailed out) at $2 per share.”
    https://app.hedgeye.com/insights/70141-remember-this-jim-cramer-bear-stearns-is-fine-do-not-take-your-mon

  150. 150
    Jeffro says:

    LGF reporting that the FBI arrested a US Army soldier who wanted to “blow up a major news network” (no doubt CNN) and kill presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke. But hey, all the violence is on the Left…

  151. 151
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Wasn’t directed at you. Your sympathy is admirable. Just wanted to make a general point about making sure to not drag innocent people into this mess.

  152. 152
    donnah says:

    What frustrates me is that Trump and Giuliani and the lead Republicans are again redirecting the story and they’re winning. They have turned this into a corrupt Biden and Son story and since Trump has the megaphone, he’s telling his followers and the rest of the country that it’s another desperate act by the Democrats. And they believe him, as usual.

    We’ve gone from an important key story about a whistleblower’s concerned report to a ridiculous circus of bold lies told by a known liar, backed by sycophants and a supportive press. Every time, we think certainly THIS will change things and it never does. It’s going to be shelved next to the Mueller Report and every other legitimate wrongdoing and crime they’ve committed.

    I want desperately to be wrong. I want to believe that this new criminal lawbreaking is the one that turns everything around. I’m still hoping.

  153. 153
    Kay says:

    I’m wondering if media will hold one of their own accountable. The NYTimes reporter who was promoting Trump’s theory on cable said he had a corruption story on Biden/Ukraine that hadn’t been released to the public yet. Putting aside the ethical issues of announcing that, he now has to produce that story, right?

    If he doesn’t he misled readers and viewers. Not a “clouds around the candidate” bullshit NYTimes story either. He promised something. If he doesn’t deliver is he held accountable?

  154. 154
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jl:

    I absolutely agree. But DJTJ, Eric, Vanks, and Jared are all legit objects of our scorn, yes?

  155. 155
    Aleta says:

    @jl: Huh. Hope it’s sticky for Pence. In fact I hope for a back story like: T, having agreed in 2016 to let Pence erect a christian facade over his swampwater casino soul, has weighted Pence down by ordering him to commit crimes; like a mafia insurance policy.

  156. 156
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kay:

    How often over the last several years has he promised something and failed to deliver? More than I can keep track of.

  157. 157
    jonas says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Can you even *get* a Brioni suit untailored? They cost something like $5-10k. I would think having an elderly Italian tailor flown in directly from Milan to take your measurements was part of the whole mystique of buying clothes at that level.

  158. 158
    trollhattan says:

    @Jeffro:
    Good people on both sides.

    Here’s how Rupert Murdoch has decided to handle that little Swedish snot, Greta Thunberg.

    But beginning with the announcement that she would be traveling to the U.N. by boat — which they read as a kind of trolling, a gesture of liberal superiority — a phalanx of critics appeared and moved so much in unison you’d be forgiven for seeing it as a coordinated attack. “Is Greta a green prophet or a schoolgirl puppet controlled by more sinister forces behind her?” asked the British Sun, a Rupert Murdoch paper. “No teenager is more freakishly influential than Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement,” the Australian columnist Andrew Bolt wrote in the Melbourne Herald Sun, another Murdoch paper. “I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru.”

  159. 159
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: They’re adults, and if they are doing bad things, fine to point that out. IMHO. I don’t see the point of going after family members just because they are family members though. Tiffany been involved in the grift? I have no idea, but if not, I don’t see any point in dragging her into the mess or making fun of her.

  160. 160
    Kay says:

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    I remember that. To me, NOT calling that crash should change peoples’ minds about the credibility of these people. If it doesn’t, then what does “credibility” mean? Why would anyone work to keep it? It has no connection at all to actions and statements. What other value does Cramer bring than (supposedly) knowing more about this than other people? Why have him at all?

  161. 161
    trollhattan says:

    @jonas:
    Lasers. Frickin’ Italian lasers!

  162. 162
    gene108 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Rules don’t apply to anyone in this Administration. No matter how small, they just have show their superiority by flaunting the rules, any rules.

    And the MI GOP can’t do a damn thing to protect one of their state’s tourist attractions

  163. 163
    sigyn says:

    @Spanky: Remember when Trump had a bandage on his hand that was explained as “rough-housing” with his son?
    I wondered at the time if the boy hadn’t tried to fight back; he’s at about the right age & definitely the right size…

  164. 164
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @guachi:

    …and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders.

    Which tells you a lot about many people; so assumption of innocence.

    The prosector prosecutes the case that involves a defendant. The defendant may or may not be “the offender.” That’s why a trial is being held.

  165. 165
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @japa21: I only caught tiny bits and pieces of the show and didn’t follow it, so am unfamiliar with this arc, but can’t help thinking that having Sheen turn Bartlet into Benjamin Willard to address the kidnapping would have been inspired. But that’s not mass-market TV.

  166. 166
    Hoodie says:

    Trump stands and sits like he does because he has big gut that he’s trying to conceal from himself and others. Standing like this makes it look like his gut does not extend forward beyond his chest, especially from his own point of view or from a camera looking at him head-on. If he stood straight and didn’t hold his stomach in, his tie would lay on his gut and call attention to it. He does everything possible to mask it, including wearing oversized suit jackets. He is probably the vainest man who has ever served as president, although most modern presidents have actually been pretty athletic (even Clinton jogged) and had decent to great physiques for their ages.

  167. 167
    trollhattan says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I heard Barron is shaking down kids at school for their lunch money. Lunch is very expensive.

  168. 168
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    is he held accountable?

    If by accountable, you mean promoted, then yes.

  169. 169
    rikyrah says:

    ABC News (@ABC) Tweeted:
    JUST IN: FBI arrests Army soldier who allegedly discussed plans to bomb major U.S. news network, suggested targeting Beto O’Rourke. https://t.co/7Vji3JJpnV https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1176181349834772482?s=17

  170. 170
    jonas says:

    @Kay:

    The NYTimes reporter who was promoting Trump’s theory on cable said he had a corruption story on Biden/Ukraine that hadn’t been released to the public yet.

    Welp, it had better be something good because the WaPo looked into it and found no there there. Hunter Biden was never under investigation by Ukrainian authorities and Biden’s push to oust a corrupt prosecutor was part of a broader European/NATO effort to clean up Ukrainian politics, not some personal hobbyhorse of Biden’s.

    As a side note: Trump better be careful what he wishes for. He clearly wants to kneecap Biden because he’s convinced that he has a much better shot against Warren than Biden in the general, seeing her largely as a second Hillary he can bait over and over again. But I think he severely underestimates Warren’s potential and she’s clearly chomping at the bit to kick his fat ass all over.

  171. 171

    @Kay: NYT columnist Roger Cohen was passing on Modi’s propaganda as news in his op-ed this morning. Why is this fascist enabling newspaper the darling of so many on our side?

  172. 172
    gene108 says:

    @Kay:

    Big time media reporters held accountable?

    Only time I recall that happening was the guy at NYT (Jason Blair ?), who was just making up stories.

    Otherwise the media looks after its own, unless they offend conservatives

  173. 173
    jl says:

    At this rate, Trump will be claiming Deep State National Bowling Association has a sinister plot that has kept him from bowling 1000 every game.
    I hope his staff hasn’t managed to hid all the sharpies from him. Next time he needs to break them out it will be way fun.

    @Politico
    President Trump revived his beef with the selection committee that awards the Nobel Peace Prize today, claiming that the process is rigged against him
    https://twitter.com/politico/status/1176202574061608969

  174. 174
    Brachiator says:

    @Kay:

    If he doesn’t he misled readers and viewers. Not a “clouds around the candidate” bullshit NYTimes story either. He promised something. If he doesn’t deliver is he held accountable?

    His editors and the publisher are responsible. He’s not a freelancer.

    It’s even a little nuts that he is out in public, promising a juicy story, instead of conferring with his editor. But things are tough, and the Times seems to be desperate to stay on top.

  175. 175
    Betty Cracker says:

    @artem1s: We don’t need them because they could fit in a Porta-Potty. Seriously, there can’t a significant bloc of racists who voted for Obama-Biden to spite W with the notion that Biden was really the shadow president. I know there are Obama-Trump voters, but they aren’t strategic — they just zig and zag between parties like a herd of angry, scared antelope between warring prides of lions.

  176. 176
    japa21 says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Okay, in terms of succession you are correct. I was thinking more of the removal of the President. My error.

  177. 177
    Jeffro says:

    Trumpov now saying that “if a Republican did what Joe Biden did, he’d be getting the electric chair”

    This is going to hell in a hurry, but hey he’s your guy GOP. I’m sure he can keep this up for 14 more months and win a resounding victory.

  178. 178
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Kay:

    then what does “credibility” mean?

    It means exactly the same as “I take full responsibility,” i.e. nothing. When is the last time a public figure who “took full responsibility” actually had any consequences.

  179. 179
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Born under the control of a horrible father, he deserves a chance to overcome the odds against him.

  180. 180
    Zinsky says:

    Betty – you always make me smile with your posts! I had never noticed that about the Mango Mussolini before but he has a definite forward tilt to his fatass! The personal thing about Trump that has always bothered me is that the man never laughs. Ever!

    I mean, have you ever heard Trump let loose with a genuine belly laugh? Obama did it all the time! I have never once heard Trump genuinely laugh. He will be wearing that cosmetically enhanced, ear-to-ear cheeso grin frequently, but never a real laugh that reveals a joy in being alive. A human being who does not laugh is a very broken human being!

  181. 181
    joel hanes says:

    @cain:

    [Why Trump with Modi]

    Fascist would-be dictators who are deliberately destroying their democracies gotta stick together.
    They probably exchange tips.

  182. 182
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @Kay:

    I’m wondering if media will hold one of their own accountable. The NYTimes reporter who was promoting Trump’s theory on cable said he had a corruption story on Biden/Ukraine that hadn’t been released to the public yet. Putting aside the ethical issues of announcing that, he now has to produce that story, right?

    If he doesn’t he misled readers and viewers. Not a “clouds around the candidate” bullshit NYTimes story either. He promised something. If he doesn’t deliver is he held accountable?

    The FNYT reporter has already copped to his story being a nothing burger. This will have absolutely no negative effect on his career or the FNYT’s bottom line. So yes, he misled readers and viewers. He did deliver something of value, it just wasn’t what you wanted. He delivered fear, uncertainty, and doubt, for which his corporate masters will reward him, just as “the market” will reward them.

  183. 183
    Mandalay says:

    @Kay:

    It makes me sad that their may be some unfortunate and poorly-served senior citizens who actually make financial decisions based on this horrible hack’s “advice”.

    Does she even give financial advice any more? I think her primary role these days is to provide a platform for the Trump Administration to say whatever they want, which would explain this otherwise bizarre tweet from Trump last Thursday:

    Great news. @MariaBartiromo just renewed her deal with Fox. I don’t care how much they paid her, they got a beautiful bargain. Congratulations to both!

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1174868276805083136

    I’m not sure that he ever did, but Trump truly doesn’t give a fuck any more. He’s acting as though he’s untouchable, and is able to say and do anything with impunity.

  184. 184
    jl says:

    @Jeffro: Trump is pissing himself in fear more will come out that is horrendous for him. But he is such a fool, he has no message discipline, has no sense of the plausible, at least when he’s not operating in a closed room full of dupes and fellow swindlers.

    Giuliani managed to get the stage crew guffawing at him by the end of his scenery chewing in the recent Chris Cuomo show. That is not a good sign that they can spin this competently.

  185. 185
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Aleta:

    Born under the control of a horrible father, he deserves a chance to overcome the odds against him.

    I very much hope he gets that chance, and takes full advantage of it.

  186. 186
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @jl: The consensus here seems to be that Tiffany went on the UK trip with the family and is now equally tainted.

  187. 187
    Spanky says:

    @Jeffro:

    Trumpov now saying that “if a Republican did what Joe Biden did, he’d be getting the electric chair”

    Ah, so he’s read the Weld quote, then. Hope it sticks in his craw.

  188. 188
    joel hanes says:

    @Kay:

    The NYTimes reporter who was promoting Trump’s theory on cable

    Ken Vogel ? [spit]

    Kurt Eichenwald, a _real_ reporter, thouroughly fisked Vogel here:

    https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1175474606485975042

    I believe that left a mark.

  189. 189
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @jl:

    You are right, and I didn’t mention Tiffany — and won’t, until and unless she does something that warrants it. In truth, I mostly forget Tiffany’s existence, and I suspect that’s the way she likes it. She doesn’t seem to crave a high public profile AFAICT.

  190. 190
    Dork says:

    @donnah: A dispassionate observer might argue that this is simply another example of Lefties jumping the gun. Not every whistleblower is acting in good faith. For all anyone knows this person is a Trump plant, meant to leak a story that the administration couldn’t push out openly, to further fracture the 2020 Dems, or as Impeachment bait. This person could just as easily be a Warren supporter who saw an opportunity to slam both Trump and Biden, and succeeded in damaging Biden more than Trump. It doesn’t matter now, the story went viral 35 seconds after the first whiff of possible Trump corruption was detected. The jig is up on the media, they’re not just puppets for their paymasters, they’re puppets to randos on twitter with a clever enough ruse. Trump used them to get elected and now everyone is in on the game, but every day liberals have to stop falling for the rope-a-dope before it’s too late to prevent Ivanka 2024.

  191. 191
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @trollhattan:

    Snort!

  192. 192
    trollhattan says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I’ll gather my concern for possible bycatch Trump children once I manage to forget how Chelsea was treated. Not suggesting resurrecting “White House dog” or anything, just that I can’t be bothered to defend them either.

    Grab the boy and run, Melania. This is your chance!

  193. 193
    trollhattan says:

    @Spanky:
    For a second I thought it meant Trump is resurrecting [heh] the electric chair, along with the steam catapult.

  194. 194
    joel hanes says:

    @Dork:

    For all anyone knows this person is a Trump plant

    My, aren’t you the savvy one.
    Good job on Trump’s part suborning the whistleblower, and the IG, AND the Democrats who have been briefed.

    Don’t change your nym; it’s you to a T.

  195. 195
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @japa21:

    No worries. I think that episode was the thing that cemented the 25th in my mind. Previously, I was only tangentially aware of its provisions.

  196. 196
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @trollhattan:

    how Chelsea was treated

    Shit, I’m so old I remember how Amy was treated.

  197. 197
    Jeffro says:

    @jl: He really is going to blurt out ALL the details one day, and probably one day soon. Like a really bad episode of Law and Order. Hey whatever it wakes, trumpov

    @Spanky: and best of all, the charge is coming from *within * the GOP. I know he and his little minions will try to paint Weld as some sort of Hillary ‘plant’ in the party or something, but whatever.

    So this is what it looks like when the dam’s about to burst…how intriguing.

    Hey GOP you’ve got 14 months – you sure you wanna ride this tiger for over a year? Do you see a resounding lib-owing-to-end-all-ownings next November? I guess we’ll see!

  198. 198
    patrick II says:

    Any transcript that comes from the White House is not necessarily a word for word recounting of the conversation that took place.

  199. 199
    Jeffro says:

    @Dork: Just a reminder that trumpov is not capable of playing, much less winning, 2-D checkers. A 17-D chess player he most certainly ain’t.

  200. 200
    ruemara says:

    @Betty Cracker: In essence, exactly what was done to the Clinton’s to allow Trump voters to justify voting for Trump.

    @schrodingers_cat: He’s a narcissist with the most simplistic view of anyone not him – ever. He believes if a leader Indian likes him, you’ll all see that and like him too. After all, isn’t that how minorities are? We just need to see you embracing a top one and suddenly we believe you’re on our side?

    No.

  201. 201
    jl says:

    Looks like Trump heard his declared primary opponents saying he committed treason, and the person interviewing them gasped that THE penality for Treason in the Constitution is DEATH!!!. Which is BS and just plain incorrect in several ways, and shows what lazy ignorant and incompetent nincompoops most of the corporate news celebrities are.

    So.. Trump has to yell treason. Trump is simple minded. That doesn’t mean this latest criminal scam won’t work, but he is a mentally sick simple weak minded person, as well as a dangerous criminal.

  202. 202
    jl says:

    @ruemara: But Trump has assured me, repeatedly, that his model minority friends and employees and business associates come whisper in his ear, confidentially, that he is right about everything. And he is he least racist person in the history of the multiverse.

  203. 203
    Immanentize says:

    @jl: And they all start by saying, “Sir….”

  204. 204
    Dork says:

    @joel hanes:

    Don’t change your nym; it’s you to a T.

    Sure, I may be a moron for speculating that he might use leakers to his advantage or that he might put his subordinates up to be collateral damage or that he might put himself on the firing line next to his opponents, but history would say he might do any of those things in any combination. My personal suspicion is that this came from a Warren supporter though, and why not, she has the most to gain here.

    None of that was my point though, my point was about how this is all playing out, we’ve seen it before. First a huge Impeachment worthy scandal goes viral and everyone says it spells doom for Trump then everyone goes quiet for a few days while the dust settles and finally we see that all the egg is on someone else’s face. My only point was that making it go viral with 20% of the information is costing Liberals over and over again. I’m not saying Trump is playing 4d chess either, I’m saying the media has become so gullible that literally anyone can make them pump a rumor as long as it seems to suit their ideology. Also not saying this is a rumor, only that a rumor is all something has to be. I know it’s verboten to say anything less than scathing about Trump but this phenomenon has to either be Liberals jumping the gun of their own volition or Trump playing them like a fiddle, so which is it? I’m asking liberals to stop jumping the gun because I can’t believe Trump is that clever.

  205. 205
    cokane says:

    Centaurs were notoriously animalistic in their drives, as others have noticed on here. It’s kind of the whole shtick of the creature. Given to drink, consume, fight and fuck without any of the higher restraint functions of the truly human animal.

  206. 206
    jl says:

    @Dork: There is a whistle blower report, it has been vetted and approved by the intelligence community IG, and the Trump administration needs to hand it over, otherwise Trump and several others deserve impeachment. Period. That is all that matters.

    Trump and his flunkies don’t need any kind of pretext for casting nets of lies all over the country. You may be over thinking, just maybe.

  207. 207

    @Immanentize: …and have tears in their eyes.

  208. 208
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @cokane: for readers of Harry Potter, I always thought there were some very dark and non-YA things happening when SPOILER ALERT! the centaurs took Delores Umbrage into the woods…

  209. 209
    joel hanes says:

    @Dork:

    Agree that much of the national political media has become unthinking stenographers, and slavish followers of every latest shiny thing; they seem no longer to care about the truth of the statements they print. (I’m so old that I remember when The Drudge Report was essentially their assignment editor, and Powerline was “Blog Of The Year”). Villago delenda est.

    But IMHO there’s no possibility that this whistleblower thing is a Republican scheme, and the level of cynicism required to suspect or expect that it might be a false-flag operation is probably debilitating.

  210. 210
    jl says:

    @joel hanes: It would be interesting if the president and several other high ranking officials of an administration found a way to merit impeachment, conviction and removal from office for creating a mere cover story for a crime that didn’t exist as a mere pretext to lie just as they’ve always done. That would probably be unique in the entire human history of public corruption.

  211. 211
    jonas says:

    @jl: DOJ and the interim DNI chief are relying on an obscure, but highly effective legal theory to thwart Congress’s efforts at getting that IG report and the whistleblower’s charges called “Go f*ck yourself.” It’s unfortunate that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison didn’t go through the Constitution line by line when they were done drafting it, asking “well, ok, but what if the executive branch just tells Congress to go fuck itself?” Then they would have had a hearty laugh, secure in the knowledge that surely it would be inconceivable that a gang of treasonous gouls would succeed in commandeering virtually all the levers of executive power in America and that their equally craven co-conspirators in Congress and the judicial branch would cover for them.

  212. 212
    Dork says:

    @jl: Ironically they just announced they plan to release the transcript, not that it’s a guarantee, but let’s say for conversation that they do. We all know that in written form a tonally threatening conversation can seem perfectly benign. So then what? He didn’t just comply, he released it to the public, nothing to see here. Good guy Trump wins again.

    If this turns out to be another nothingburger, by whatever machinations, then Biden isn’t the only one who suffers. Even if you hate Biden and want any other Dem for 2020 this is overall bad news which could have been prevented in exactly the way I mentioned.

    It’s true that I might be over thinking it but it is equally true that you might be under thinking it. I would like to see the Dems nominate a candidate that can beat Trump and at this point I’m not certain that’s possible, because of nonsense like this happening. Every. Single. Week. No amount of hate BJ can levy on me for saying that will make me feel as bad as the realization itself does. This shit chips away at the whole Dem party and at every Liberal in America.

  213. 213
    Dork says:

    @joel hanes: I’m honestly not saying that I believe this is a Republican false flag, I’m just saying that anything can come from anywhere in 2019 and that this trend keeps backfiring in one direction. It can’t backfire against Liberals if they act with restraint is all I’m saying. Another person brought up the question of why this keeps happening and I was trying to answer with my honest opinion. I have been here since Cole was a Conservative and know that unorthodox opinion is unwelcome but honestly, I would rather be hated by Liberals for speaking up about what I see going wrong than to stay quiet while 2020 slips away.

  214. 214
    jl says:

    @Dork: There is also independent evidence of Giuliani’s part in the scheme that has been a developing story for months as he’s trotted around Ukraine and Europe, but that has barley been reported by corporate news media in the US. But looks like you are going to think what you think, and probably best to let blog readers decide who has the best argument at this point.

    Edit: and what ‘hate’ have you seen in the responses today? You really Bernie Sanders? Admit that and then you’ll see some unhinged hatred from some of the commenters.

  215. 215
    Raoul says:

    FWIW, I just sent this message thru Speaker Pelosi’s web portal. It seems it’s geared toward her Speaker role, so it doesn’t require one be in her district. It may just go into a useless spam folder, I don’t know. But I wrote it anyway.

    September 23, 2019

    Dear Madam Speaker,

    I write to you as one of your broader, national constituents.

    Our country stands at a perilous point. If we as Democrats are to stand for the rule of law, the time has come when we must step up and use the full set of tools laid out in our founding documents. We must, with great speed, open a formal Impeachment investigation. I understand an inquiry is under way.

    The Ukraine revelations — made by the President’s personal attorney Mr. Rudy Giuliani and echoed by the President himself — are entirely sufficient to call for impeachment. Even Republican Gov. Bill Weld now thinks so.

    We must strengthen our resolve, to do what is moral and lawful and right. This morning our President indirectly called for the jailing and sentencing to death of Joe Biden. We must not dawdle. History is being made, and will turn deeply ugly if Mr. Trump’s descent isn’t halted. Now.

    With sincere thanks, and may our nation be a blessing for a struggling world.

    Raoul
    Minneapolis, MN

  216. 216
    Miss Bianca says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Mackinac Island is where I rode my first horse at the tender age of 5. For some reason, this stunt just seems like such a violation, altho’ I know it pales in comparison to other Trump Administration crimes and misdemeanors.

  217. 217
    japa21 says:

    @Dork: Still trying to figure out how this could come from the Warren camp. That part of you claim is the most nonsensical.

  218. 218
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Two years ago (almost to the day — the GOP Leadership Conference was underway), my siblings and cousins and I rented a house for a week on Mackinac, and had a lovely family reunion. One of the great charms of the place was the absence of motor vehicles. I feel this as an almost personal affront.

  219. 219
    Dork says:

    @jl: Fair point, I braced myself for hate because of past experience but this conversation has been pretty mild in terms of disagreement backlash.

    @japa21: I’m not saying it came from the warren camp per se, though it might have, but everyone has an opinion. Remember the context, this is something that was stumbled upon by the “whistleblower” and not something they would have encountered directly. As far as I’ve heard we have no idea who exposed this individual to the information and therefore should be cautious not only of the one who came forward but of the original source, which is unknown. Anyone who either dislikes Trump or Biden could have seeded this to any number of people and hoped one of them would speak out, and this person was just the lucky contestant. This story blew up with such scant information that I can’t help but point out the numerous ways in which one could speculate about it. That’s an enormous problem in my book and it’s only harming the left right now, because the right for all their faults stopped trusting the media decades ago. I don’t consider myself a brilliant mind but I have thought about the topic and the conclusion I came to was that the left has to stop this because nobody else has the will to do so. Not saying Liberals are precisely to blame but they do play their part and the solution lies with them nonetheless.

  220. 220
    Shana says:

    @trollhattan: Didn’t Don Sr. do that to Jr. when Jr. was in college? I recall a story where Sr. showed up to go to a game with Jr. and he hit Jr. and told him to go put on a suit.

    @SiubhanDuinne: A recent picture of Mother Pence looks slimmer than in ’16. I think she also has a new hairdo.

  221. 221
    J R in WV says:

    @trollhattan:

    From New York Magazine:

    “No teenager is more freakishly influential than Thunberg, the deeply disturbed messiah of the global warming movement,” the Australian columnist Andrew Bolt wrote in the Melbourne Herald Sun, another Murdoch paper. “I have never seen a girl so young and with so many mental disorders treated by so many adults as a guru.”

    Thanks for sharing this.

    While we had to know that anyone working for Murdoch as a career, for years, was a piece of shit, but Andrew Bolt, accusing a young woman of being “deeply disturbed” and having “so many mental disorders” jumps into the pool of excrement right in front of the world! Surely this is illegal abuse of a minor everywhere in the world!

    Perhaps she can bankrupt Mr. Bolt, and hit Mr. Murdoch where it hurts him the most, in the pocketbook.

    These people create new levels of despicable nearly every day…

  222. 222
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Dork: You’re really trying to spin the possibility that this story was planted by *Warren’s* camp? Damn, Skippy, sounds like you ought to lay off the sauce.

  223. 223
    Shana says:

    @trollhattan: Scuttlebutt around DC is that both she and Barron spend a lot of time at her parents’ house in the MD suburbs near Barron’s school. Don’t blame either of them one bit.

  224. 224
  225. 225
    Melusine says:

    Oh lord BC, thank you so much for the howls of laughter today!!!

  226. 226
    J R in WV says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @jl:

    The consensus here seems to be that Tiffany went on the UK trip with the family and is now equally tainted.

    I’m OK with Tiff going on a family vacation. That way she gets to see exactly how horrible all those other trumps are, in first person. She doesn’t have to take our word for it anymore. Even if she flew on our dime, she wasn’t going along in order to conduct her own little graft operation.

  227. 227
    gorram says:

    I’m late to this thread, someone else probably already mentioned Chiron, but essentially #NotAllCentaurs

  228. 228
    gorram says:

    Although, then again, Chiron could be argued to be basically centaur-passing, since he’s not related to the rest of them (who were born from a shapeless dark cloud). It comes down to whether centaur is a specific “species” (as in, sharing a common ancestor) or description of a body type.

  229. 229
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @J R in WV: I agree with you. Others’ mileage varies.

  230. 230
    smintheus says:

    Looks to me like Trump has a urinary drainage bag on his leg, with posture trying to conceal it. If so, one of the least pathetic things about him.

  231. 231
    Noah Brand says:

    I literally ran the numbers back in 2017, and can state with a high degree of confidence that Donald Trump is between 5’7″ and 5’11”, and has been wearing lifts, puffing up his hair, and lying about his height for his entire adult life. The key is the cast of his hand at Madame Tussaud’s, the only known accurate measurement of his body. Even accounting for casting shrinkage and proportion variance, it is impossible for him to be 6’3″. There’s more on the math, and my sources, at the original article: https://goodmenproject.com/politics-2/donald-trump-almost-definitely-five-foot-nine-bbab/

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