Ukrainian Connection? (Updated)

As discussed in another thread last night, The Post published a scoop on the whistleblower complaint that is currently the subject of an investigation by the House Intelligence Committee. It involves a promise Trump made to a foreign leader on a phone call:

Trump’s interaction with the foreign leader included a “promise” that was regarded as so troubling that it prompted the intelligence official to file a whistleblower complaint with the inspector general for the intelligence community, according to two former U.S. officials familiar with the matter. The former officials spoke to The Post on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

Trump lied about it in the usual manner this morning on Twitter:

Another Fake News story out there – It never ends! Virtually anytime I speak on the phone to a foreign leader, I understand that there may be many people listening from various U.S. agencies, not to mention those from the other country itself. No problem!

….Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially “heavily populated” call. I would only do what is right anyway, and only do good for the USA!

Presidential Harassment!

Trump is certainly dumb enough to blurt out inappropriate things to a foreign leader — it wouldn’t be the first time. The only question is who Trump was talking to and what was the nature of the promise.

Shortly after Trump tweeted his dumb tweets, Intelligence Community Inspector General Michael Atkinson, the man who reviewed the whistleblower’s complaint and found it “credible” and “urgent,” met with the House Intelligence Committee. That committee’s chairman, Adam Schiff, later said Atkinson did not provide details about the complaint — Atkinson is still trying to follow the law, just as the whistleblower tried to follow the law in the first place.

Schiff says Acting DNI Joseph Maguire* will appear before the committee next week to “explain why this urgent concern should not be shared with the Congress.” The answer will be, “The [corrupt] AG [acting as Trump’s personal attorney] says I don’t gotta tell ya.”

I’m optimistic we won’t have to wait that long. We know at least two people really, really want this information to get to Congress. But while we wait, here’s an interesting story:

The house committees’ chairs say they will scrutinise a telephone call between the US president and [Ukrainian President] Zelensky on 25 July, during which Mr Trump allegedly told the Ukrainian president to reopen the Biden investigation [into alleged corruption involving former VP Joe Biden and his son Hunter, who served on the board of a Ukrainian company] if he wanted to improve relations with the US.

They claim that Kurt Volker, the US special representative for Ukraine, was told to intercede with President Zelensky by the White House, and they are looking into the activities of Rudy Giuliani, Mr Trump’s personal lawyer.

Could this be the “promise” the whistleblower heard? Maybe. Just last month, Giuliani, acting as Trump’s personal attorney, shamelessly announced that he’s pressuring a foreign government to provide dirt on a potential political opponent (again!). Because that’s the way America rolls now.

Trump and everyone associated with him are openly engaged in self-dealing, cheating and obstruction of justice. They won’t stop until they’re stopped.

*Isn’t Maguire the guy who was elevated to the acting DNI post because Trump insisted on passing over the lawful successor because reasons? Yeah, I’m sure THAT was on the up-and-up…

ETA: Via CNN:

Whistleblower concerns were over multiple acts involving Trump, sources say

The intelligence inspector general told the House intelligence committee today that the whistleblower complaint raised issues with multiple instances involving President Trump, sources tell CNN…

The New York Times was first to report there was more than one action by the President at the heart of the whistleblower complaint.

So, if you had the “All of Them, Katie” square on your Which Foreign Leader Did Trump Shake Down for Personal Favors bingo card, collect your prize!






157 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader while on such a potentially “heavily populated” call. 

    I am that dumb.

  2. 2
    Ghost of Joe Lieblings Dog says:

    Knowing all of this, is anybody dumb enough to believe that I would say something inappropriate with a foreign leader

    Is anybody dumb enough to believe he wouldn’t?

  3. 3
    Jerzy Russian says:

    Who wrote those two tweets quoted above? I don’t think the president is literate enough to have written them.

  4. 4
    Betty says:

    We now know it was a series of acts. Good grief!

  5. 5
    Patricia Kayden says:

    All I can say is that we are living under a lawless regime. Trump is actively destroying our democratic norms, I feel sorry for his Democratic successor who will have so much to repair. Pressuring a foreign country for dirt on a political opponent should be added to impeachable offenses. Let the impeachment process begin.

  6. 6
    Jeffro says:

    NYT just reported that it was actually multiple issues/calls/concerns, not just one, that the whistleblower brought in his/her complaint. Which makes sense…just on what I know from public reporting alone, I could cite multiple issues of ‘urgent concern’ over this clown:

    – giving the Russians classified Israeli intel in the Oval Office
    – using an unsecured phone on a daily basis
    – giving no readouts from multiple calls and meetings with Putin (and others? It’s so hard to keep track…)

    I have no doubt that trumpov was leaning on the Ukranian guy and withholding aid in order to get help smearing Biden. He was probably also asking Putin for 2020 election help, too.

    His lawyers are currently trying to make that case (vs the Manhattan D.A.) that he can’t even be criminally investigated, much less prosecuted, while in office. Just wait until he switches into “if only someone would find me a ‘Second Amendment solution’ to all of this #fakenews and fake Democrat investigations!” mode…the GOP will be like, (yawn).

  7. 7
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    Isn’t Maguire the guy who was elevated to the acting DNI post because Trump insisted on passing over the lawful successor because reasons?

    Isn’t there a specific law governing cabinet level replacements?

  8. 8
    Baud says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    Pressuring a foreign country for dirt on a political opponent 

    Trump does seem to have a recidivism problem when it comes to this.

  9. 9
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Baud:

    I think he’s so dumb that he doesn’t know when something is or is not appropriate to say to a foreign leader.

  10. 10
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Betty links to the story about trump burning a Israeli intelligence asset to the Russians, and a few months later he was in Israel, posing for big smiling pictures with Bibi while behind the scenes Israeli intelligence officers were screaming at their US counterparts. I remember a Washington Post drone appearing on MSNBC and declaring the trip a great success.

  11. 11
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Betty up top:

    They claim that Kurt Volker, the US special representative for Ukraine, was told to intercede with President Zelensky by the White House

    Kurt Volker is a career Foreign Service officer, has also worked for CIA, and has been in a variety of private-sector positions for the last 10 years or so. While he is somewhat more associated with the Republican foreign-policy establishment, he is not an ideologue nor a nut job, and if he were indeed “told to intercede” I have a hard time believing he would actually do so. He is viewed as a generally honest broker in Ukraine and in Ukrainian circles outside the country.

    Giuliani, on the other hand….

  12. 12
    Baud says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    he doesn’t know when something is or is not appropriate to say to a foreign leader.

    You mean this guy?

    Trump Called Out ‘Where’s My Favorite Dictator?’ When Looking for Egyptian President at G7

  13. 13
    Yutsano says:

    “I don’t want to live on this planet anymore…”

  14. 14
    gvg says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t think it’s caused by his actual dumbness, I think it’s related to his sociopathy…he is incapable of understanding right from wrong according to society. I think he measures right by “I want it” or “I want to do that.” Even though he is “forced” to cover up almost everything he does, he never actually understands. I don’t know, I just don’t get it. He never learns not to do things even when lots of people get mad at him. I do think he is also getting more senile on top of that.

  15. 15
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    I am that dumb.

    We are all Baud.

  16. 16
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty:

    We now know it was a series of acts. Good grief!

    The Final act of this tragedy will be a farce.

  17. 17
    Jinchi says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the Ukrainians.

    I’d be very surprised if it was only the Ukrainians. The Russians are an obvious alternative, as are the Saudis and just last week Netanyahu hinted that he was going to seize West Bank territory “in coordination with” the Americans.

    Trump Kushner and Giuliani have been pretty open about their desire to get foreign governments involved with their campaign. Barr has given the green light.

  18. 18
    TenguPhule says:

    Jennifer Lewke
    @WHEC_JLewke
    Update from Congressman Tom Reed’s office:
    “He collapsed around 1:30p in the rotunda before a hit with Fox Business. He is doing well and is being checked out by doctors.” @news10nbc

    8:31 AM – Sep 19, 2019

    Sadly he did not collapse on air and is unfortunately expected to recover fully.

  19. 19
    HeleninEire says:

    Talk about asymmetric warfare. The people trying to stop the lawlessness and treason are going about it by adhering to the law. And failing.

    It’s madness.

  20. 20
    TenguPhule says:

    Julia E. Ainsley

    @JuliaEAinsley
    New: A DOJ official says it was the Office of Legal Counsel that advised DNI not to disclose the whistleblower complaint to Congress. No word yet whether Barr was directly involved.

    4,876
    5:50 AM – Sep 19, 2019

    Of course Barr is involved. JFC do our journalists only have RAM storage memories?

  21. 21
    TenguPhule says:

    @HeleninEire:

    The people trying to stop the lawlessness and treason are going about it by adhering to the law. And failing.

    I am predicting a big upsurge in subscriptions to my newsletter before all of this is over.

  22. 22
    Jinchi says:

    @Mnemosyne: I doubt this is something as simple as casually burning intelligence assets or insulting a leaders wife.

    The only thing that would rise to the level of serious and urgent is if Trump was soliciting bribes or other illegal acts.

  23. 23
    sdhays says:

    @TenguPhule: This is the same media that booked Lewandowski hours after saying that he sees no problem lying to their faces.

    So, no. They don’t really have “memories” as you call them. Or what some refer to as “thinking skills”.

  24. 24
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jinchi:

    I doubt this is something as simple as casually burning intelligence assets

    I wouldn’t be so sure, especially if Putin was being literal about it instead of metaphorical.

  25. 25
    TenguPhule says:

    Nancy Pelosi

    @SpeakerPelosi
    Americans shouldn’t pay more for their prescriptions than people in other countries. @HouseDemocrats are preparing to introduce H.R. 3, the #LowerDrugCosts Now Act, our plan to cut prescription drug prices for Americans nationwide. https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1mnxezDqLaAKX

    Yes, let’s kabuki about shit that has no chance of becoming law while the Republic burns to the ground.

    /bitter as fuck

  26. 26
    TenguPhule says:

    The Associated Press

    @AP
    A Trump lawyer says the suit filed to block New York prosecutors from obtaining the president’s tax returns is intended “to address the significant constitutional issues at stake in this case.” https://apnews.com/b4b0ea59e908433996f77698f45d2756https://twitter.com/AP/status/1174700141112123392

    Once again Trump is determined that the only way to get his tax returns is over his dead body.

  27. 27
    TenguPhule says:

    “No state has the authority to opt out of the nation’s rules and no state has the right to impose its policies on everybody else in our whole country,” Transportation Secretary Elaine Chao said at a press conference. “To do otherwise harms consumers and damages the American economy.”

    Moscowbitch’s wife has found her scandal to retire on.

  28. 28
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Good to know. I’m not a lawyer, so for all I know, it’s perfectly legal for the the State Dept. to arrange meetings with foreign officials so that the personal lawyer of the POTUS can encourage those officials to dig up dirt on potential presidential rivals. Giuliani is really open about what he’s doing, so he seems to think it’s legal. It boggles the mind.

    Do you have any sense on whether there’s anything to the allegations of corruption against Biden’s son? Everything I’ve read implies the charges are politically motivated bullshit, so I’m proceeding on that assumption.

    @gvg: That sounds about right. “It helps me, so how can it be wrong?”

  29. 29
    kindness says:

    The galling hypocrisy is killing me. How many times did Republicans claim Hillary and/or Obama were traitors to the US for reasons only they could fathom? The MSM ate it up and repeated it verbatim each time. Yet here we have an actual treason case before us and the MSM is still parroting Republicans saying ‘we don’t see a problem here’. Our media as a whole is in the tank against the people of this country and for the elites. I don’t know how to undo that.

  30. 30
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Surprise Trump didn’t use the obvious defense “Doesn’t count, everyone knows my word is utterly worthless DOT DOT DOT”

  31. 31
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @HeleninEire:

    Talk about asymmetric warfare. The people trying to stop the lawlessness and treason are going about it by adhering to the law.

    Not being able to adhere to all the “Rules for Good Guys that End Up Making Us Cannon Fodder for Evil Bastards” will always be what prevents me from becoming a true Bodhisattva Warrior. :-D

  32. 32
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jerzy Russian: Scavino. Those are caddy tweets.

  33. 33
    Jeffro says:

    Someone – no idea if it will be the whistleblower, Coats, Gordon, Schiff, but SOMEONE – is going to have to step up and tell not just Congress but the American public what the hell has been going on here.

    The rats are already turning on each other a lil’ bit and things aren’t looking good for trumpov’s re-election, but this whole “democracy” thing is crumbling around our ears. Impeachment yesterday, please.

  34. 34
    I'll be Frank says:

    @Yutsano: Down the hall, third door on the left. Do you have your towel?

  35. 35
    Jeffro says:

    Btw the tweets just scream “Innocent Man”, don’t they? Just like everything else.

  36. 36
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    For the record I’m putting money on this Whistleblower complaint being about either:
    1. Trump agreeing to out our intelligence assets/informants in Russia to Putin and extradite them for “prosecution”, aka, falls from 5th floor apartment balconies OR
    2. this quid-pro-quo to Ukraine.

  37. 37
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jeffro:

    Btw the tweets just scream “Innocent Man”, don’t they? Just like everything else.

    I’m sure the Saudis would tell us all about that.

  38. 38
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: There is. Vice Admiral (ret) Maguire is the Senate confirmed Director of the National Counterterrorism Center (NCTC). So while he does have Senate confirmation, he does not have Senate confirmation for the current assignment as acting DNI.

  39. 39
    TenguPhule says:

    @Ella in New Mexico: Why not both? We are in the worst timeline.

  40. 40
    Jay Noble says:

    @TenguPhule: Hmmmm . . . Texas school books, anyone???

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Knock it off.

  42. 42
    trollhattan says:

    IIUC Issa’s planning to run for an open CA House seat. In the meantime.

    Former Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) was once the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, but as of Thursday, he’s no longer being considered for a position in President Donald Trump’s administration. According to Roll Call, Issa couldn’t pass the background check.

    Issa was slated to appear before a Senate confirmation hearing Thursday, but the White House refused to release the findings of the background checks for Issa. As a result, Senate Foreign Relations Chair Jim Risch (R-ID) agreed to “indefinitely delay former Rep. Darrell Issa’s confirmation hearing to lead the Trade and Development Agency.”

    Only Risch and Sen. Bob Menedez (D-NJ), the committee’s ranking member, were given the information on the background check. The two men had a public back-and-forth with the over the findings, revealing the former Congressman had “problematic classified information contained” in his background check.

    Presumably, Issa had a clearance level that required a background check as a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and the permanent Select on Intelligence. It’s unclear if that means the background check problems were from recent events or they were not discovered in past background checks.

  43. 43
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @kindness: Yet here we have an actual treason case before us and the MSM is still parroting Republicans saying ‘we don’t see a problem here’. Our media as a whole is in the tank against the people of this country and for the elites. I don’t know how to undo that.

    The Washington Post and the New York Times and NBC made this story public. I’m listening to MSNBC and they’ve spent the last thirty minutes talking about a Constitutional crisis and how our laws from the founding to the Church committee weren’t written to conceive of such a corrupt president and one house of Congress helping him cover it up. The American people don’t care. They haven’t cared for three years. I don’t get it. And I don’t know how to undo that. But there it is.

    Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe Susan Collins and Cory Gardner and Martha McSally are finally scared. I’ll believe it when I see it.

  44. 44
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: What? I can’t wish misfortune on Republican Politicians here now?

  45. 45
    the Conster says:

    @kindness:

    Our media is horrible, hasn’t learned a thing and will never do its Constitutionally protected job because they’re all lazy incurious perfomers paid to blather and spout whatever their corporate masters want them to spout. Anyone who thinks they’re going to cover impeachment hearings to educate the public is frankly delusional or stupid.

  46. 46
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jay Noble: California’s emission standards. Because apparently it flouts federal law to have higher standards then the federal government.

  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Maybe Susan Collins and Cory Gardner and Martha McSally are finally scared.

    Now try and say that with a straight face.

  48. 48
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: He did not have a background check for either of his congressional committee assignments. Members of Congress, as elected and constitutional officers of the United States, are automatically granted access (clearance) for information that they need to know (access). Any background checks would have been for this appointment. Or they are old ones from his exceedingly weird time in Army intelligence prior to going into business and then politics.

  49. 49
    trollhattan says:

    Jackie Speier

    California Democrat Rep. Jackie Speier blasted the Trump administration on Thursday after it refused to turn over information about a whistleblower.

    In a five-hour closed-door hearing on Thursday, the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community reportedly refused to hand over information about a whistleblower, who allegedly felt a duty to report on President Donald Trump’s connections with a foreign leader.

    “We’ve got a very grave situation on our hands,” Speier was quoted as saying. “He is answering some questions not on the specific subject matter but it’s deeply troubling.”

    Speier suggested that the Trump administration has committed a “violation of the law.”

  50. 50
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Are you hearing anything else? I’ve been reading Laura Rozen’s tweets but that’s about it.

  51. 51
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: Knock off the snuff fantasy comments.

  52. 52

    @Adam L Silverman: It seems wrong that the caddy is more literate than the Penn grad.

  53. 53
    Howard Beale IV says:

    @TenguPhule: Yeah – just like Texas doesn’t influence textbooks.

  54. 54
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @the Conster: It is also because even the ones that work the national security beat don’t actually understand the technical details of what they’re covering. I’ll have a post up tonight explaining why this is actually a counterintelligence problem, which is not something that I’ve heard anyone mention, except, perhaps, some of the retired national security officials who are on the various cable news shows as subject matter experts.

  55. 55
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    And some light car theft and arson in between government gigs were nuttin’, I tells ya.

    He’s holding Duncan Hunter’s seat hostage in case he’s not confirmed.

    Former Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said Tuesday he will run for Rep. Duncan Hunter’s (R-Calif.) seat if he is not confirmed to a top trade post in the Trump administration by Nov. 3.

  56. 56
    LongHairedWeirdo says:

    Remember, folks: “…and the entire GOP marched in lockstep, helping to cover it up, without even knowing what it was! They just didn’t care!”

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: All I know is what is being reported. But I think, as I mentioned in comments to Cheryl’s post last night and an earlier comment, what we really have is a counterintelligence problem here. And I’ll have a post on that tonight.

  58. 58
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Shows you just how good the public schools are in Westchester, NY. My understanding is Scavino started caddying for the President in high school and has worked for him ever since. I don’t think he went to college.

  59. 59
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: Good luck.

  60. 60
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I’m sorry, are you drunk at the moment? It what way, shape or form did you get to “snuff fantasy” from my comment?

  61. 61
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: would be great if someone knowledgeable in the field, such as, say, hypothetically, you, had a gig doing that….

  62. 62
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @TenguPhule: to be fair to Adam, it is 5:00 where he lives

  63. 63
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @TenguPhule: This part:

    and is unfortunately expected to recover fully

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Doubtful it will ever happen.

  65. 65
  66. 66
    joel hanes says:

    @TenguPhule:

    the only way to get his tax returns is over his dead body

    This offer is acceptable in the short term.
    How about next Tuesday?

  67. 67
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think you need to seriously re-examine your definition of “snuff fantasy” if that’s what set you off.

  68. 68
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The timing of the arrest of the scout for Hezbollah seems dubious to me. They have had him in custody, so why today? Actually I think it’s probably to say that an Iran backed terrorist group was targeting our country and to take the pressure off of Trump.

  69. 69
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @JPL: Who knows. They announced the arrest of some guy in Miami yesterday who, allegedly, tampered with an airplane and has ties to ISIS.

  70. 70
    Betty Cracker says:

    @the Conster:

    Our media is horrible, hasn’t learned a thing and will never do its Constitutionally protected job because they’re all lazy incurious perfomers paid to blather and spout whatever their corporate masters want them to spout. Anyone who thinks they’re going to cover impeachment hearings to educate the public is frankly delusional or stupid.

    Lazy and incurious, yes, and I think you’re also correct about the “performer” aspect of the TV media and the Beltway press figures who aspire to be authors. However, I am not convinced they’re paid to push a line favored by the corporate masters directly, as in, “Promote Republicans because daddy needs a new tax cut.” I think it’s more about grabbing eyeballs to sell soap.

    Therefore, it is theoretically possible to get them to cover impeachment hearings in a way that educates the public. We just have to bring on the old razzle-dazzle — make it a spectacle! I’m serious, though I am not entirely sure it’s possible…

  71. 71
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @ola azul: Perhaps next time don’t sleep threw “How a 100% certain to fail impeachment would make Trump immune to prostitution under double jeopardy” and let the adults hand this, eh? Until you can show the US senate will do something it’s never done in US history and impeach a sitting president you have a worse than useless position.; your idea will give Trump the immunity from prosecution he craves so much. Keep in mind the Senate, packed with Union Army vets, wouldn’t impeach Andrew Johnson for trying to pretend the South didn’t lose the US Civil War.

    I truly do not understand why people like you find this point so hard to understand.

  72. 72
    rikyrah says:

    @ola azul:

    At least go down fighting. Make every Republican senator defend Trump, in detail and at length, on the floor and on the street. Bombard the federal courts with subpoenas. Use the media to leak every bit of damaging information you uncover. Fight fire with fire. Donald Trump, and the corrupt and increasingly fascistic Republican party that is now wholly his creature, will both do anything to hold onto power: act accordingly.

    ICAM

  73. 73
    JPL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: true. Yesterday the White House knew about the Washington Post story also.

  74. 74
    Geoduck says:

    Never mind, started to ask a question, figured it out on my own.

  75. 75
    Elie says:

    We are in the fight for the life of this country. We will have to be skilled, brave and also lucky to succeed. Take a deep breath.

  76. 76
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Geoduck:

    I think it means “I Couldn’t Agree More.”

    OWTNM

  77. 77
    MJS says:

    @ola azul: Agreed. The only thing I would add is, start speaking in absolutes. Not, “We must investigate.” Instead, it should be, “The President is obstructing justice, and is therefore engaged in a criminal enterprise. The American people need to know the extent of that criminal enterprise, and how it has damaged this country.” Repeat, ad nauseam, “The President is engaging in criminal behavior.” No more equivocating, or process talk. Every time you’re in front of a camera, call the President a crook.

  78. 78
    Mike in DC says:

    I’d point out that, vis a vis Ukraine, that Giuliani was trying to get dirt on Hunter Biden and nudge the Ukrainian prosecutors to bring a case/start an “investigation”, and coincidentally but perhaps unrelatedly, funds to assist Ukraine in its defense were withheld, apparently under orders from on high, and it appears they may be withheld past the expiration of their authorization time frame. If Trump was soliciting foreign assistance in smearing a political rival, and tying American foreign policy decisions regarding that country to whether such assistance was provided, it goes without saying that’s impeachable conduct. At this point the justification for impeachment is ample. Short of him murdering Mitch McConnell’s family on live tv, though, it ain’t gonna happen. Just pile up the evidence and hand it off to an AG who doesn’t think like Eric Holder.

  79. 79
    NotMax says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques

    Say what now? One major reason for Nixon resigning when he did was the surety that he would be Constitutionally ineligible for a pardon upon impeachment, thus wide open for prosecution post-holding office. (Talking impeachment here, NOT conviction.)

    As for double jeopardy, what happens in the Senate one way or another is not a court of law; it is not a trial in the sense of applying (or clearing of) statutory criminal penalties.

  80. 80

    CNN: Three anonymous sources say that the White House was involved in advising DNI not to share whistleblower complaint.

  81. 81
    JPL says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m shocked, just shocked.

  82. 82
    MoCA Ace says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Isn’t there a specific law governing cabinet level replacements?

    So?

  83. 83
    MJS says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: Did I miss all the other former presidents being criminally prosecuted and convicted? Because unless I did, then that scenario also falls under the category of “things that have never been done before” and therefore not to be considered, at least not by “the adults.”

    And how does this criminal conviction fantasy work in this scenario – Trump loses the election, resigns the next day, and President Pence pardons him?

  84. 84
    TS (the original) says:

    I have a memory of President Obama providing readouts of EVERY phone call he had with foreign leaders – his staff also had a press conference every week day – now the media HAS to use whistle blowers to find out anything that the government is doing.

    Whoever started this discussion should well fear what may happen next given the protection provided to trump by AG Barr

  85. 85
    NotMax says:

    @NotMax

    Also the reason why Clinton cut a deal to have his law license suspended in exchange for the dropping of other contemplated charges for which he could not be pardoned after impeachment.

  86. 86
    misterpuff says:

    Someday we’ll find it
    The Ukraine Connection
    The lawyers, the schemers and Drumpf

  87. 87

    @NotMax:

    he would be Constitutionally ineligible for a pardon upon impeachment

    It might have been more of a political problem for President Ford, but he could still be pardoned.

  88. 88

    @NotMax: Impeachment is a political process and the penalties are political(not being able to contest for office being the most extreme penalty), where in the Constitution are you coming up with this reasoning?

  89. 89
    misterpuff says:

    @misterpuff: Feel free to insert Putin, Bibi or Saudi for Urkraine.

  90. 90
    Jay says:

    After a year of student organizing—including a Never Again march this past summer—Johns Hopkins University has announced it is ending its contracts with ICE. Holding our institutions accountable works. #nobusinesswithICEhttps://t.co/qtt6p64TK4— ✡️ Never Again Action ✡️ (@NeverAgainActn) September 19, 2019

  91. 91
    Baud says:

    OT. The primary is getting real.

    Buttigieg swipes at Warren for being ‘evasive’ on health care

  92. 92
    Ryan says:

    This makes a lot more sense than the Putin speculation. Trump has had the military support for Ukraine at his disposal for months, which matches the multiple interactions timeframe.

  93. 93
    JaySinWA says:

    Duke and UNC under fire. Weaponized anti-semitism? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/19/us/politics/anti-israel-bias-higher-education.html
    ETA anti-anti-semitism that is.

  94. 94
    Spanky says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: “Advising” DNI? Please!

  95. 95
    TS (the original) says:

    @trollhattan:

    Former Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said Tuesday he will run for Rep. Duncan Hunter’s (R-Calif.) seat if he is not confirmed to a top trade post in the Trump administration by Nov. 3

    Leeches – that cannot survive unless they are paid by the government. They talk small government – but THEY have to be part of it.

  96. 96
    Jay says:

    At 3:30 the Timbers Army broke with the silent protest, in honor of the year the Iron Front was crushed by Nazis. The place exploded. Banned antifascist flags everywhere. #ironfront pic.twitter.com/IFSj1VAXo7— Shane Burley (@shane_burley1) September 19, 2019

  97. 97
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Article II, Section 2 specifically negates the power:

    “The President…shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

    As for inability to later hold office, the Constitution is essentially silent (see, for example, Rep. Alcee Hastings, impeached and removed as a federal judge, afterwards – and currently – a member of Congress).

    As you say, it is a political, not a legal process, so double jeopardy does not apply.

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @NotMax:

    I think that means the president can’t prevent impeachment by pardoning. Not that impeachment prevents a pardon.

  99. 99
    MomSense says:

    It could have been Saudi Arabia, Israel, Russia, Ukraine, India – those seem the most likely to me.

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    Maybe WikiLeaks can leak the information!

    Hahaha.

  101. 101
    NotMax says:

    @Baud

    Nixon’s lawyers didn’t see it that way, interpreting it as applying to the issuance of impeachment and advised him so. Even they weren’t about to chomp on that poisoned apple.

  102. 102
    Baud says:

    Push back works.

    Immigration agency will re-allow requests for medical deferments to avoid deportation

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/19/politics/uscis-deferred-action/index.html

  103. 103
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Do you have any sense on whether there’s anything to the allegations of corruption against Biden’s son?

    Sorry for the late reply, was out cycling. No, there is no there there.

  104. 104
    JaySinWA says:

    @NotMax:
    It is not silent, disqualification from office is an option,
    Article 1, Section 3, Clauses 6 and 7

    The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried the Chief Justice shall preside; And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

    Judgement in Cases of Impreachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment, according to Law.

  105. 105

    @Baud: I agree with your interpretation.

  106. 106
    Baud says:

    When you’re a republican who’s lost Bob Woodward….

    Did Kavanaugh ask NYT reporters to lie in their book? Yeah, pretty much.

    Washington Post: Breaking News, World, U… / by By Erik Wemple / 6min

    Journalist Bob Woodward says that he doesn’t ever remember a source asking him to say the source wasn’t interviewed

  107. 107
    JPL says:

    @Baud: So they decided that maybe it’s not the best look to drop those ill and dying over the border at this time.

  108. 108
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    I’ve heard that. I haven’t looked into it myself.

  109. 109
    sdhays says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That was my understanding, but I’ve seen some reporting that if he’s impeached, the pardon power can’t be applied, regardless of what action the Senate takes. I looked it up and the text is somewhat ambiguous (at least to me, and I’m not a lawyer), so I think it’s something that could end up at the Supreme Court, if pushed.

  110. 110

    @sdhays:

    the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgement and Punishment, according to Law.

    This portion of JaySinWA’s comment seems pretty unambiguous.

  111. 111
    sdhays says:

    @NotMax: Of course, Nixon’s lawyers were dealing with a Supreme Court that was more likely to read the Constitution in a way that restricts the Executive.

  112. 112

    @Baud: I’d trust you over Nixon’s lawyers.

  113. 113
    Martin says:

    @TenguPhule: Huh. The Clean Act Bill that Congress passed begs to differ.

    Now witness the power of this fully armed and operational state economy.

  114. 114
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    You should. I am not a crook.

  115. 115
    sdhays says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: But what if he’s impeached, but not convicted? I can’t really comprehend Dump getting convicted in this Senate.

  116. 116

    @sdhays: Impeachment is a political process and is separate from the criminal process.

  117. 117

    @Baud: You know, I actually saw Nixon(he looked like a crook).

  118. 118
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Jay: Thanks for linking.

    Is there some web page where other, similar university contracts are collected and posted?

    I suspect lots of info is on the internet. Yet many of us don’t know to access it or put it together to make useful sense of it.

    Also there’s possibly so much info that anyone trying to make some sense of things just drowns in bits of info.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    You can judge a book by its cover.

  120. 120

    @Baud: And guess what picture just came up as my computer’s wallpaper? A pic from the Nixon Library, coincidence? I think not.

  121. 121
  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Your haunted by the ghost of Checkers.

  123. 123

    @Baud: You know, I do have a cocker spaniel*.

    *She’s brown though.

  124. 124
    Baud says:

    I think this might torpedo her campaign.

    Marianne Williamson entertained 9/11 conspiracy theories in 2012 interview

  125. 125
    oldgold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Dan Scavino is a college graduate. He graduated from the State University of New York at Plattsburgh in 1998 with a B.A. in communications.

  126. 126
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Our dad took us kids to see Nixon when he spoke at the local private college stadium in 52. I suspect it was there because it was the largest outdoor venue.

    I was 12 and my brothers were bit younger.

  127. 127
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Baud:

    Buttigieg was responding to Warren’s interview on Tuesday night with late night host Stephen Colbert. When she was asked directly if she would raise taxes on the middle class to pay for health care, the Massachusetts senator failed to answer the question.

    She’s done this repeatedly. I don’t why she just doesn’t say it will be financed by taxing the rich. Signaling that she will raise payroll taxes will turn off the WCWs she’s trying to win over.

  128. 128

    @Ladyraxterinok: I saw him just before he passed.

  129. 129
    JaySinWA says:

    @Baud: I thought her campaign was a self scuttling grift plan. Pull in money from the rubes and then fold up the tents.

  130. 130
    Chyron HR says:

    @JaySinWA:

    Yet another female candidate steals one of Bernie’s plans.

  131. 131
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Jinchi:

    Oh, I agree with you there. But because Trump is a toxic narcissist, he genuinely doesn’t understand the difference between soliciting a bribe and saying, “Where’s my favorite dictator?” If he wants to do it, it’s right, QED.

    He knows that OTHER people think it’s wrong to solicit bribes, and he knows it’s bad for other people to do it, but he thinks it’s fine for him to do it because he’s different and special.

    And, no, it doesn’t count as a delusion, because it’s incurable. He is the center of the universe and there is no way to convince him otherwise. The only way to protect yourself from someone like him is to cut off contact.

  132. 132
    jl says:

    I think it’s about Trump and Giuliani scheming to get dirt on Biden in exchange for favors to Russia on Ukraine and perhaps other things. Reports indicate that has been a major ongoing project for Trump’s re-election. Trump figures he is above the law. That would also be a plain violation of US federal law, and something worth a whistleblower taking a big risk. If (edit: when) identity comes out, no doubt Trump will ask a very corrupt Barr to put him of her or them in jail. My understanding is that Trump administration is also plainly and baldly violating plain written law in withholding the info from Congressional oversight.

    I think a lot more information will come out. Sounds like multiple IC people are informed and alarmed and willing to leak.

  133. 133
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    She’s never done a detailed medium post on health care like she’s done for her other plans.

  134. 134

    @jl:

    Sounds like multiple IC people are informed and alarmed and willing to leak.

    DEEP STATE, DEEP STATE!

  135. 135

    @Baud:

    She’s never done a detailed medium post on health care

    It’s complicated, so she’d have to do a large post.

  136. 136
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Baud: well shit she’s as bad as Sinema. Censure her!

  137. 137
    Baud says:

    Maine laws expanding abortion access go into effect

    But people on the internet will still debate why we should elect Democrats.

  138. 138
    Mary G says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I saw him three times, the last one his SS detail were outside the hospital smoking cigarettes and it was just him and me coming from opposite ends of a long hallway. Seemed like it took forever to pass each other. My brain froze up and I didn’t say anything nasty, because he looked terrible. Pat Nixon was an inpatient and I told him I hoped she was better. Yes, I am a wimp.

  139. 139
    jl says:

    @Baud: Unfortunately, right now, Warren is trying to avoid the issue of how to get a good health reform done. Maybe because opinions are so polarized on the issue of how to finance health insurance. As I have typed here before, very successful reforms can be done going to a much stronger PPACA (Go Swiis!) or some form of Medicare for All (Go Australis!) . Health insurance financing mechanism is not a critical issue with other good reform in place. I suspect/hope Warren is informed and smart enough to understand that.

    I am supporting Warren right now, but no one is perfect. I hope she figures out how to approach the issue soon. She might be trying to wait until she has solidified her top two status in the polls. Or, wants to continue the explicit or implicit nonaggression pact with Sanders to stand together against conservative and centrist Demo opponents.

  140. 140
    Baud says:

    Interesting author.

    The far left is taking a page from its opponents’ playbook

    By Catherine Rampell

  141. 141
    grammypat says:

    @oldgold: If you are still around, I’d like to talk privately.

  142. 142
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    There were some failed attempts at citizens referenda but we love our reproductive rights here in Maine!

  143. 143
    jeffreyw says:

    They say you can’t fuck up a dump cake but I am here now, telling you that I can fuck up that thing, and badly. However, if said cake is left in the oven long enough that won’t be a real problem.

  144. 144

    @Mary G: I saw him when he visited the ARCO Tower(his dad ran a Richfield station), I think it was after Pat died.

    ETA: I didn’t realize until I was at their graves at the Library that Pat Nixon was older than Tricky Dick. She was a year older.

  145. 145
    Carol says:

    Rudy has been quiet for a while now. Is he working undercover, or did someone put a sock in his mouth and explain that what he was proposing is collusion.

  146. 146
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Baud: @jl: but she’s not being asked for a complete plan, rather she’s being asked if she will raise payroll taxes on working stiffs and she refuses to say no. Just say income and wealth have been accruing at the top and as long as that keeps occurring, new revenue will come from the elites and corporations.

  147. 147
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    She’s getting dinged on all of it.

    Warren’s decision to wholly embrace another candidate’s idea — particularly on an issue of such outsized significance in the 2020 election — has put her in an unfamiliar position of defending and advocating a proposal that is not uniquely hers. And she’s made clear that she has no intention of authoring a comprehensive health care plan of her own during the Democratic primary contest.

  148. 148
    jl says:

    @Baud: The article may be accurate about Sanders ad deBlasio, not Warren. Why didn’t she say so? The analytical support for Sanders’ proposals is very mixed. He is good at slogans not thinking things through.

    Rampell hass seemed smart and informed when I’ve seen her speak on TV news talkies, but she seems to have some mindless centrist economic tendencies. Why the claim that progressive policies will break the budget with no mention of GOP give aways, and really not much support for that claim. On student debt, not liking one consequence of the proposal is not the same as saying it won’t work and is as crackpot as GOP schemes. And her link doesn’t support her claim that analysis says it won’t work. There is disagreement among experts on whether is the best approach. Her link on modern monetary theory does not say it is a crank theory.

    So, interesting column with some truth to it for a few Democratic primary candidates, but disappointing overall to me.

  149. 149
    jl says:

    @Baud: Your comment is accurate. I don’t think I addressed the issue of Warren offering a complete plan. I just said she wants to avoid the whole issue, and that includes how to finance it. Her refusal to address such a narrow issue when there are several easy ways to finesse it, IMHO is why I said I was disappointed with her approach.

    Overall, I think we are in agreement.

  150. 150
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Mary G:

    You’re a human being.

  151. 151
  152. 152
    jimmiraybob says:

    I’m sure that our heavily-armed patriot citizen militias will be marching on DC to staunch the tyranny! (Pause for laughter)

    Any minute now. (Pause for more laughter)

    Probably tomorrow morning. (Laughter dying out)

    No, really. They said that they needed unlimited access to death-inflicting arms and munitions of war in order to rise up against the government when it became oppressive of the people and the states. Second Amendment! Second Amendment! (Why are you looking at me like that?)

  153. 153
    noncarborundum says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m not sure it’s possible to make Trump immune to prostitution.

  154. 154
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Jay: Amazingly, the students at my Alma Mater actually compelled the bunch of morally-challenged, money-grubbing bastards that run it to perform a socially useful act. Don’t hold your breath for the next one.

    (O/T – did anyone else have problems signing on the blog over the last couple of days? I kept getting a “connection timed out – site taking too long to respond” message – didn’t happen with any other website – & only managed to reconnect a couple of hours ago.)

  155. 155
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @trollhattan: Would infinitely prefer Former Rep. Grand Theft Auto to be running for the border of the nearest country without an extradition treaty with the USA…

  156. 156
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Gin & Tonic: How much you want to bet the Ukrainians were told that they had to produce something Twitler could use against the Bidens or else have the aid cut off? With the very strong hint that “if you can’t find anything, manufacture something” – ? That’s how these fuckers roll.

  157. 157
    TCS says:

    Is Trump trying to arrange for his asylum ?

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