Thursday Morning Open Thread: Smash the Green Lantern (Theory)






210 replies
  1. 1
    satby says:

    Going right to Twitter to follow Armchairshrink!

  2. 2

    In good news, Trump left LA yesterday morning for San Diego where he visited a new(it’s not new, just rebuilt) section of Wall and signed it.

    And to carry on a bit from downstairs…Madame and I are going to a reception for the opening of the 1919 exhibit over at The Huntington. The Huntington was founded in 1919 and this is the kickoff of their centennial activities. Another scholarly institution in Los Angeles is also celebrating it’s 100th year, UCLA.

  3. 3
    satby says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: he thinks a border wall is his own personal Rushmore? Ick.

    Have fun at the reception, sounds lovely.

  4. 4

    @satby: It’s not like they’ll ever put him on the real Mt. Rushmore. The reception should be nice, except I think I’ll have to wear pants.

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    They want a quick fix, a hero, a savior, something, ANYTHING, that will lessen their anxiety over the ongoing horrors.

    Here I am!

  6. 6
  7. 7
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    Fuck you, FYWP! Lost another comment to “spam” on edit.

  8. 8
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    “HEY! Can’t I get a little privacy around here????”

    The mountain lion banged through the front screen door of the home in Sonora, breezing past both the home’s residents before fully comprehending what it had done, said Andrea Benson, a sergeant with the Tuolumne County Sheriff’s office. The lion ran deeper into the house once it spotted the residents, ending up in a bathroom, and the residents quickly shut the door behind it, Benson said.

    They went into the basement and called for help, while the mountain lion appeared to take the opportunity to knock around toiletries. The sheriff’s department and the state department of fish and wildlife responded, using a ladder to get a peek – and a photo – of the mountain lion in the second-story bathroom. With the residents’ permission, the sheriff’s deputies broke the window and worked with the wildlife department to coax the animal out.

    “The officers were pounding on the wall to get his attention, and shining the light on the window area to show that there was a path to escape,” Benson said. “He finally was able to jump out the window.”

  9. 9
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    @Baud:

    Inorite.

  10. 10

    @Baud: It’s an evening reception so it may be a bit chilly(by LA standards), pants might have some utility. Normally when I require warmth, I’d wear sweatpants but I think that might be somewhat inappropriate.

  11. 11
    Lapassionara says:

    @satby: Me too. I don’t know if I can live through 4 more years of Trump.

    Good morning, everyone.

  12. 12
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Have a good time. Sounds swanky.

  13. 13
  14. 14
  15. 15
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  17. 17
    frosty says:

    @rikyrah: May I just add “Blech”… I don’t know why I’m awake before the alarm.

  18. 18
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @frosty: A morning without Blech is like a day without…

  19. 19
  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @JPL:

    Is that what heaven feels like?

  21. 21
    JPL says:

    @Baud: Don’t know, but I do know that today the president has no public events so he’ll have more time to tweet. It might be what hell feels like.

  22. 22
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @JPL: If a tweet falls in the forest but nobody reads it, does it make a sound?

  23. 23
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @JPL: yes
    @Baud: yes^4

    So completely unrelated, I just replaced some iris lost in the overgrowth wars of 2019, for way cheaper than I expected. 💚

  24. 24
  25. 25
    New Deal democrat says:

    Really, people?!? I’m sorry, but Armchairshrink can go pound sand, and I’m being really polite here.

    We – including Congress – are “powerless” to do anything about a wannabe autocratic President? Really?!? The Constitution provides no remedies? Congress has no power to have the DC police hold all of the people who have ignored their subpoenaes in a DC jail until they comply? Using their Article I powers to the max is now “green lantern” theory?

    Go to hell, every single one of you who goes along with Armchairshrink’s learned helplessness.

  26. 26
    debbie says:

    @satby:

    Won’t it be fun, on the morning after the next election, to hit every one of those damnable signatures with a bucket of acetone?

  27. 27
    WereBear says:

    As a long-time Jackal I am continually astonished by people who were not aware of the situation until Trump was elected.

    No wonder they freak out. It’s not like noticing Godzilla until he steps on the home next door.

  28. 28
    Jeffro says:

    @Lapassionara:

    I don’t know if I can live through 4 more years of trumpov

    A variation of this should be our nominee’s closing argument next fall.

  29. 29
    Jeffro says:

    @JPL: Hopefully he is sweating buckets and yellling himself into prime stroke condition.

    Even his supporters are like, “I wonder what they’ll eventually get him for?”

  30. 30
    Jeffro says:

    Btw not a peep on Faux News about the whistleblower issue…they must be waiting for instructions from Mulvaney or something.

  31. 31
    germy says:

    White House losing its fight to keep this story secret. The whistleblower, the IC IG, House Intel leadership and now ⁦@nakashimae⁩, ⁦@gregpmiller⁩ & ⁦@shaneharris⁩ bringing it into the light. https://t.co/FFMsUmZL34— Kate Brannen (@K8brannen) September 19, 2019

    What's crazy is that an actual public servant, upon hearing this, would go, "What? I don't care if he's my boss. We gotta get to the bottom of this!" But not this White House. They close ranks. Because it's a crime syndicate that took over with the help of a foreign power. https://t.co/dFvTtVnv0H— Brandon Friedman (@BFriedmanDC) September 19, 2019

  32. 32
    JPL says:

    @Jeffro: Both CBS This Morning and the Today show covered it, although CBS spent more time on Trudeau. It appears that BARR wanted the whistle blower report buried.

  33. 33
    germy says:

    I’m seeing an ad at the top of this page for a “Cat Wheel – Safe Indoor Exercise For Cats” ($199)

    I suspect my cat would stare at it and then walk away. Which would be a form of exercise, I suppose.

  34. 34
    Baud says:

    @WereBear:

    As a long-time Jackal I am continually astonished by people who were not aware of the situation until Trump was elected.

    I was a yellow dog Dem before Trump because of the situation.

    That said, internet liberals were freaking out well before Trump. I left Daily Kos in 2010 because I got tired how they were freaking out about Obama’s many “failures” in his first two years. Trump is a legitimate reason to freak out, but the rhetoric has always been dialed up to 1000.

  35. 35
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro:

    We’ve tried a “Vote or Die” campaign before. Maybe it’ll catch this time.

  36. 36
    germy says:

    @Jeffro:

    I don’t know if I can live through 4 more years of trumpov

    A variation of this should be our nominee’s closing argument next fall.

    Make it more about the voters, though: “I don’t know if we can live through four more years of PEETUS”

  37. 37
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    He’s not saying people are helpless. He’s addressing their feelings of helplessness and their demands to do something right now!

  38. 38
    Chyron HR says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    USE THE MAXIMUM POWER OF THE MARSHAL OF THE SUPREME COURT TO ARREST THE PRESIDENT! I AM NOT A KOOK!

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    Also addressing transferring those anxieties against the wrong people.

  40. 40
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @frosty: I know why I got up before 6. (Glares at dog).

    Sammy goes in tomorrow for the first of three heartworm injections. We’re told that they are quite painful and also that he’s supposed to be on total bed rest for weeks. For the last 60 days leading up to this I’ve been constantly alternating between “Poor little guy” and “How the hell am I supposed to keep him quiet for weeks? I can’t imagine an entire day!”

  41. 41
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    @germy:

    But your cat would surely enjoy the box it came in!

  42. 42
    WereBear says:

    @germy: We want one so much! But, apartment and cost.

    One day :)

  43. 43
    WereBear says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi): Brilliant. Cat-focused concerns turn to selling boxes.

    Pretty ones! Easily assembled!

  44. 44
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @germy: Our daughter gave us one of those racetracks that has the little ball in it that the cat is supposed to move around the track. Said her cats completely ignored it. Our kitty went for it immediately and plays with it day and night. She even knows to give the ball an extra push to get it up and over the little hill, which fascinates me.

    We’re both easily amused I guess.

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    Haha. Bolton v. Trump in the news.

    This is what heaven feels like.

  46. 46
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    Armchairshrink’s learned helplessness

    We can not remove trump thru impeachment as long as the Senate is held by the GOP. The 25th route is a joke. Going to work at winning in 2020 is “learned helplessness”? Maybe we should just stamp our feet and hold our breaths until trump resigns.

  47. 47

    Armchairshrink is my new hero. Hysteria is useless and debilitating.

  48. 48
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    @Baud:

    Plus, as I said in my spammed comment 😠, we have a Law and Order mentality. We want everything wrapped up neatly by the end of the episode. Our current situation is not like that.

  49. 49
    Lapassionara says:

    @Baud: This. Trump being president is an existential crisis for the US. Every decision he makes appears designed to inflict the maximum damage on our relationship with our allies, on any hope for making progress on global climate change, on the lives of poor people, Puerto Ricans, Central Americans, Haitians, etc.

    And my elected representatives think he is doing fine!

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    I’ve said before, our side does politics the way CEOs do business — the thinking is all short term at the expense of long term progress.

  51. 51
    Ken says:

    Isn’t the Trump maladministration itself an argument against the Green Lantern theory? You have a political party that controlled all three branches of government, and a President willing to ignore and break all the laws and customs of the office, and they couldn’t Green Lantern everything the way they wanted.

    I suppose there’s a counterargument that a competent criminal administration could have accomplished more.

  52. 52
    Sab says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Wow. I had the neighbors housecat do that, and it was unnerving trying to get him out after he panicked. I can’t imagine a mountain lion.

  53. 53
    Jinchi says:

    I have no patience for analysis like Armchairshrink’s, which is simultaneously that we are all self-indulgent fools for believing that those in power can serve as a check on president Trump and that the average Joe venting on twitter is personally responsible if Democrats lose the next election.

    • Most of us voted against this guy the first time around.
    • People have been marching in the streets all across the country since the day after his inauguration.
    • We came out in record numbers just last year to elect people specifically to serve as a check on Trump.

    It’s not too much to expect that people in a position of power should act while they have it.

  54. 54
    Baud says:

    @Lapassionara:

    And my elected representatives think he is doing fine!

    You’re in Pelosi’s district. #LefryTwitter.

    @Ken:

    No. Because the rules are different for Republicans. They are strong because they make liberals feel bad. It doesn’t matter how much they fail, as long as they talk tough. We are weak unless we implement progressive Utopia.

  55. 55
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    @WereBear:

    I have never had a cat that enjoyed the toy more than the box it came in.

  56. 56

    The picture in this probably won’t show here so you don’t know what happened, which is how I scrolled into this tweet too. I guessed it would be someone’s dog misbehaving. It’s not. I laughed aloud and dragged Mr DAW to look too.

    NO. NO. YOU GO BACK IN THE CORNER AND YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID. https://t.co/cJYFQQRYp1— Hugo Award Winning Fanfic Wombat (@UrsulaV) September 19, 2019

  57. 57
  58. 58
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Ken:

    competent criminal administration

    If they were competent they wouldn’t need to be criminal.

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    You should do Mr. DAW a solid and purchase one.

  60. 60
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jinchi:

    It’s not too much to expect that people in a position of power should act

    The power to do what?

  61. 61
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    It’s a misleading statement because they are acting. They simply aren’t acting in the way and on the timetable that some people want.

    This will always be the case in a representative democracy and a coalition party.

  62. 62
    Betty Cracker says:

    One thing that puzzles me about the Do Something vs. Clap Harder skirmishes: One of Team Clap Harder’s favorite arguments is that Congress can’t move forward on impeachment without first building strong public support for it. Leaving aside whether that argument is valid or not, the only way to build public support for impeachment is to argue that Trump is uniquely lawless and dangerous, and therefore, Congress must Do Something. But when Team Do Something makes that argument, they’re sneered at as Green Lantern believers and naive babies who are “externalizing their inability to deal with the shit of our situation.”

  63. 63
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Exactly, but I’m curious to hear what Jinchi thinks the DEMs in congress can do to stop trump and the GOP.

  64. 64
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The problem isn’t the push to do something. The problem is the rhetoric of the Do Something crowd switches from being about Trump to focusing on how the Dems have failed us. That’s why we end up in these skirmishes.

  65. 65
    WereBear says:

    @Ken: I suppose there’s a counterargument that a competent criminal administration could have accomplished more.

    It’s a funny thing about the criminal mind. It’s much like the Fundagelicals with their holy commands. They are so focused on their central distortion that their thoughts actually don’t work all that well.

    It leaves a criminal gap, but not via masterminds very often. But some develop a chilling disregard for consequences if they terrorize a small enough area to intimidate local law enforcement.

    There’s a book that tells the tale, “In Broad Daylight,” and to this day it is still a mystery.

    And it tells us that we have rule of law when we choose to exercise it.

  66. 66
    Kay says:

    @Jinchi:

    I think we can really question some of these decisions. Or I certainly can :)

    Matthew Miller
    @matthewamiller
    ·Sep 17
    There will be a lot of bluster and bombast from Lewandowski today, but what I’m most interested in is the questioning from
    @BarryBerke
    . One of the country’s best criminal defense attorneys sitting on the dais for the D’s.

    They had competent people (or A person at least) to question Lewandowski. Berke got Lewandowski to admit he lied to the media (and so the public) over and over. Why did they wait until the end to use him? Why are the hearings such a chaotic mess? Nadler is bad. Maybe he’s good at other things- I don’t know- but he’s bad at this.

    I wasn’t even an impeachment supporter but if they’re going to do some kind of gradual impeachment at least do it well.

  67. 67
    Ken says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Competently criminal, I meant.

  68. 68
    WereBear says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi): We have what I call Alpha Cat Type in the house, so battery operated toys are better than the box in that instance.

    Cat tree boxes have a special magic, though :)

  69. 69
    Jeffro says:

    @Kay: Berke was amazing. I don’t know how even the most ardent trumpov kool-aid guzzler could have watched that part of the hearing and not come away thinking…”something ain’t right here with ol’ Corey”

    But I have been wrong once or twice about such things before…

  70. 70
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    They need to scrap their 5minutes, add that to the 30 that they gave the professional, and let him at them.

  71. 71

    @Baud: I could wear it to the Halloween party here!

    That costume is a sacrilege against all our childhoods.

  72. 72
    Jinchi says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):
    Scroll down to Cheryl Rofer’s post about Adam Schiff’s battle with the Acting DNI.

    A whistleblower is currently risking his career and livelihood to raise the a “credible and urgent” alarm about the Trump administration making promises to a foriegn leader.

    It’s not suffering from “Green Lantern Syndrome” to think that “urgent” implies someone needs to act sooner than January 20th, 2021.

  73. 73
    Another Scott says:

    @Betty Cracker: ‘morning everyone.

    I think the camps are more like:

    n/3 – Camp-Do-Something-NOW-NOW-NOW
    2n/3 – Camp-Work-Smartly-And-Clap-Harder-To-Help-Change-Public-Opinion

    CDSNNN isn’t going to win such a battle.

    I’m reminded that in the 1972 House Elections Democrats went from 255 seats to 242 seats. There are 235 Democrats in the House now. Nixon’s support peaked at around 70% in February 1973.

    The televised Watergate hearings started in May 1973 and support for Nixon’s removal was at 19% in June 1973. Even months after the Saturday Night Massacre, removal was only around 40% in February 1974. It wasn’t until late July 1974 when support for removal crossed 50%. Nixon resigned on August 8, 1974.

    Politics is slow. Changing public opinion takes time. Impeachment even moreso.

    People who scream about ‘powerless feckless Democrats’ really need to step back and think about things a little more, IMHO. Congress isn’t going to move without public support because Impeachment is a political process, not a legal one.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  74. 74
    Kay says:

    @Jeffro:

    He was fine. Good job. It’s easy to catch Trump people in a lie. They lie constantly on tv and to newspapers.

    If they want to hold hearings, and they do, apparently, they have to decide ahead of time how and to what extent they are going to enforce their own rules, and then stick to that. If the person behaves in a way that merits some kind of contempt action then it should be brought, whether or not it means the witness gets dragged out of there. That’s the process. They’re not responsible for the outcome- they’re responsible for the process. It’s literally their job.

  75. 75
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    What they can do “right now” is use their power of inherent contempt to jail non-cooperating witnesses until they comply.

  76. 76
    germy says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Someday I expect to see a “Sexy Balloon-Juice Front Pager” Halloween costume.

  77. 77
    grubert says:

    Which is what makes one wonder if these guys are actually very good at their jobs and we just misunderstand what their jobs are.

    Wish more people thought like this.

    Hell, this is simply thinking… wish more people *thought* period.

  78. 78
    Baud says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    That power does not exist except maybe on paper. It hasn’t for about 150 years. And if the Dems tried it, it would hand Trump a big public relations victory. It would make us feel good for about a couple of hours.

  79. 79
    Kay says:

    @Jeffro:

    Because to me, here’s what happens when they don’t enforce. The witnesses who DO comply and answer questions respectfully – because that’s the rule- are then chumps and dopes for doing so if the lawless Trumpsters just sashay in there and pull this stuff. You’re essentially punished for respecting the process. Breaking the rules give Trumpsters an edge that lawful people don’t have. That can’t be.

  80. 80
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Me:”hold all of the people who have ignored their subpoenaes in a DC jail until they comply.”

    You:”IMPRISON THE PRESIDENT!”

    Oh? The President was subpoenaed?

    Yes, you are a kook.

  81. 81
    satby says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: if you don’t have him crate trained it will be harder, but the easiest way to keep him quiet is in a crate. Let him out on a leash for sedate walks to prevent freedom zoomies.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    germy says:

    I was looking for Halloween costume ideas, and came across this labelled as 'sexy Donald Trump' – I have never been more disturbed in my life…#why pic.twitter.com/4jwJWUdocP— Jamie Raines 💛 (@jammi_dodger94) October 13, 2018

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    Fuck the Pet Calendar. Do this!

  85. 85
    Butter Emails says:

    @Baud:

    The problem isn’t the push to do something. The problem is the rhetoric of the Do Something crowd switches from being about Trump to focusing on how the Dems have failed us. That’s why we end up in these skirmishes.

    Well there’s also the fact that Congress is indeed doing something. That something just isn’t what the Do Something groups wants done at that particular instant, or it’s not being done fast enough, or it’s not being done correctly, or it’s being done, but the Do Something crowd hasn’t seen it on their TVs.

  86. 86

    @New Deal democrat: I would pay good money to see this.

    @germy: What a scary thought.

  87. 87
    Baud says:

    @Butter Emails:

    I already said that upthread!

  88. 88
    oldgold says:

    Where is the Senate Intelligence Committee on this?

  89. 89
    Citizen_X says:

    @Kay: Agree 100%. Berke was awesome, and they need someone like him handling the questioning right from the beginning. If you want to move the public-opinion needle, that’s what’s needed.

  90. 90
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Baud:

    100% hard disagree. We’ll give up the Republic and the Rule of Law because we are afraid to enforce a right that the Constitution explicitly gives Congress.

    Why should any future President do anything other than Rule by Decree and refuse Congressional oversight, so long as they have 1/3+1 Senators in their corner?

  91. 91
  92. 92

    @germy: I think that might be even worse than the Sexy Mr Rogers one.

  93. 93
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Ken:

    Competently criminal

    Over the years I have met more than my fair share of criminals and I’ve never met a competent one. Never read about one either. Of course, one could say the competent ones don’t get caught and I could not refute that. If they do exist, I would bet they are competent enough to know they can’t trust criminals.

  94. 94
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott:

    Plus, I’d hate to think what a republican house would do with that power if we normalized it.

    @New Deal democrat:

    Yes, we do disagree.

  95. 95
    Princess says:

    @Kay: Why did they wait until the end to use Berke? Maybe because they wanted to have him question Berke after several hours of testimony when he’d be tired and maybe a little off his guard. If Berke had gone first, Lewandowski might have been able to resist him better. I may be giving them too much credit. But it seems plausible to me that you might soften a guy up for a few hours, let him get cocky and tired, and then hit him with the big guns.

    I think Democrats spend too much time listening to Rick Wilson, who is NOT our ally (not saying you were Kay, but this was one of his big arguments. He takes every chance he can to say that Dems suck and Dems lap it up. He wants Trump out so he can go back to his cushy job writing anti-Dem attack ads)

  96. 96
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Another Scott:

    Oh, dear! “Undesirable optics” and removing “comity.” Well then, we must let the Executive do whatever they want without any check!

  97. 97
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Not mine. I never watched Mr Rogers.

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Sexy Captain Kangaroo?

  99. 99
    Butter Emails says:

    @Another Scott:

    triggering inherent contempt has undesirable optics: It is not hard to imagine that the image of a high-level executive official being handcuffed and detained by the sergeant-at-arms will likely undermine any residual sense of comity left between the administration and Congress.

    I’m on your side, but this is just LOL funny. There is no residual sense of comity left between the Administration and Congress. Trump’s acting Intel Chief is refusing to turn over whistleblower documents as is required by statute even though the Inspector General reviewed and indicated that they should be turned over.

  100. 100

    If we all sit back, with the kind of “mental health” Armchairshrink advocates, nothing happens. The Germans tried that in the 1930s. (Actually they were dealing with all sorts of shit, just not Hitler.) Or consider the Kadets during the Russian interim government leading up to the Revolution of 1917.

    It’s good to have a variety of voices. And yes, some will be out ahead of the pack, dragging the pack behind.

    Tranquility is nice. Looking down on people can feel good. Right now, we need action from many quarters, including those we voted in to deal with the Orange Menace.

    It’s also useful to personalize the issues. Nancy Pelosi has the power in the House. She could be pushing the Democrats who are just fine with Trump. She doesn’t seem to be. Do I think she’s the full Green Lantern answer? No, all of us are, and sitting back feeling smug that we are mentally healthy isn’t the answer.

  101. 101
    The Golux says:

    @Baud: @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    It’s not like they’ll ever put him on the real Mt. Rushmore.

    Mt. Flushmore would be more apt.

  102. 102
    satby says:

    @Butter Emails:
    @Baud: and you both nailed it. It just bore repeating 😉

  103. 103
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Can we look forward to Sexy Elmo or Big Bird? Or has it been done already?

    I don’t think I want to know the answer to that question.

  104. 104
    oldgold says:

    @Princess:

    Maybe because they wanted to have him question Berke after several hours of testimony when he’d be tired and maybe a little off his guard.

    No, they wanted prime TV time.

  105. 105
    Another Scott says:

    @New Deal democrat: Heh.

    Maybe address the substance of the article? He addresses all of the ins-and-outs of how the various powers work in the real world.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  106. 106
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @satby: He’s sort of crate trained but not for extended periods. And definitely has never been left alone in the house in a crate.

  107. 107
    Anne Laurie says:

    @germy:

    Someday I expect to see a “Sexy Balloon-Juice Front Pager” Halloween costume.

    It will involve a paper bag to be worn over the head, a Tunch tee shirt, and NO PANTS.

  108. 108
    Another Scott says:

    @Butter Emails: True. But that’s just a snippet of the article. He addresses the ins-and-outs of the various powers. It’s not just, or even mostly, about optics and hurt feelings.

    There’s a lot more at the link.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  109. 109
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    You’re falsely making the choice binary when it isn’t.

  110. 110
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @New Deal democrat: Actually, they can’t. Contempt is turned over to the DC US Attorney, who is then responsible for bringing charges.

    Do you think charges would be brought? Really?

  111. 111
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @germy: I will not look. There is not enough brain bleach in the world.

  112. 112
    JPL says:

    @germy: Betty Cracker can design that.
    btw I chose not to look at the trump costume. just no

  113. 113
    Butter Emails says:

    @Baud:
    Oops. Sorry Baud. This is why you’re running for President and I’m not.

  114. 114
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @armchairshrink can go fuck himself.

    Look, I don’t expect miracles from the Democrats right now. They’re only in control of one house of Congress, so they can’t pass legislation because of the Great Wall of Mitch.

    But we’ve already Done Something. We raised enough of a ruckus to keep the GOP from killing Obamacare at a point when the Democratic Party controlled nothing. Then we elected a solid Dem majority in the House, which gives the Dems certain limited powers.

    And now it’s their turn. I don’t expect miracles, but I expect them to do what they can. They can’t convict Trump in the Senate, but they can impeach him in the House, and put the failure of the Senate to remove Trump from office on the Republicans’ heads.

    And they can do what the GOP has been doing for a generation now: have a unified messaging campaign to highlight the worst of Trump. What Beto said on Meet the Press this past Sunday – every elected Democrat ought to be saying stuff like that when they’re confronted with stupid questions, especially if they’re basically regurgitated Republican talking points.

    And they ought to get publicly angry about the things worth getting angry about. Babies in cages. (No Democrat should EVER fail to speak out about babies in cages when they’re on the TV, no matter how briefly.) Obstruction of justice. Continuing to try to take health care from people. Eroding access to abortion. Refusing to do anything about our monthly gun massacres. Kissing up to and giving intel to hostile powers. Pressuring other countries to dig up dirt on domestic political opponents.

    That’s already too long a list – but they can pick three to five of them, and hammer the GOP over them, over and over again. But the reality is, there’s no meaningful Democratic Party messaging. They want to lie low, be inoffensive, and hope 2018 repeats itself in 2020. And then what?

    The Republican Party is evil, and there’s nothing I can do to change it. I have no influence there. But I expect the opposition party to OPPOSE evil, as clearly and strongly as they can. I’m gonna hammer on them until they do that.

    I acknowledge the limits of what the Dems can do. But they’re stopping well short of their limits, and that’s what pisses me off.

  115. 115

    So Trump apparently promised something to a foreign leader while talking on the phone. The intelligence people were listening to the foreign leader’s calls, and Trump’s promise scared someone enough to blow the whistle. If I were the foreign leader, I wouldn’t trust any promise Trump made. And dear god, how could Trump not know the call was probably being monitored?

  116. 116
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Sexy Mr Green Jeans.

  117. 117
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Another Scott:

    It is not hard to imagine that the image of a high-level executive official being handcuffed and detained by the sergeant-at-arms will likely undermine any residual sense of comity left between the administration and Congress.

    LMAO!

  118. 118
    Mr. Mack says:

    Ran into an old timer I know yesterday. He’s a reliable Dem, mostly Liberal, and has allowed me to place large, hand built signs on his property during past elections. He’s somewhat plugged in, and I usually enjoy speaking with him. yesterday he was drilling me about Tulsi Gabbard. I am somewhat ashamed to admit I know little about her, but remember several good talking points brought up here. I know her parents were/are gay conversion therapy grifters, and that she is in the Reserves. Truthfully, she hasn’t been on my radar because I never took her seriously. Would a jackal or two be willing to point me toward some sources on her that might help me craft an argument against her nomination? Thanks!

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @Mr. Mack:

    She appeared on Sean Hannity’s show. That should be sufficient.

  120. 120

    @Baud: I clearly said

    It’s good to have a variety of voices.

    So no, not a binary choice, rather a spectrum of action. Young parents with small children and a limited budget will probably be quietist. That’s fine. Disabled people who want to be activist may be able to send postcards, as we’ve seen many jackals doing. Others raise the call.

    What I don’t understand is why raising the call is seen as singularly divisive or, in this morning’s insult, mentally ill.

    I don’t find the argument that doing nothing and waiting for the election persuasive. Clearly others differ, and I guess that’s fine. Maybe they’re even right. But dismissing my argument by saying it stems (implied: only) from my insecurities is chickenshit. Perhaps those who disagree could say “Well, I differ, but I guess you’re okay. Maybe you’re even right.”

    That’s all I’m looking for.

  121. 121
    Jinchi says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Nancy Pelosi has the power in the House. She could be pushing the Democrats who are just fine with Trump. She doesn’t seem to be.

    Worse, she publicly scolds those who aren’t. It seems abundantly clear that Nancy Pelosi would like all talk of impeachment to go away.

  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    But you opened with this.

    If we all sit back, with the kind of “mental health” Armchairshrink advocates, nothing happens

    You may (reasonably) not agree with what the House is doing, but to equate it with sitting back is false.

  123. 123
    Matt McIrvin says:

    People who think he’s overreacting have to understand: on Twitter they routinely take it to the extreme of calling the Democrats the real enemy. Trump does something horrible and they immediately leap to blaming Democrats for it without even pausing for breath. It’s a lot like the way that by the end of the 2016 campaign you’d have thought Hillary Clinton was President from 2001 to 2009.

  124. 124
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    To agree — what I tell my students is that the prisons do not hold masterminds and geniuses.

  125. 125
    Chyron HR says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Wow, the next time I’m in an argument I should try this “Instead of disagreeing with me, why don’t you just say that I’m right?” tactic.

  126. 126

    @Baud: I did not say that the House is sitting back. If you look at the proper noun in that quote, I was referring to the tweets above.

  127. 127
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    “Jesus, I just shit my pants.”

    Fighter pilot rescued from high-voltage power line after crash in France

    F-16 pilot’s parachute got caught in electricity line after he ejected from jet in Brittany

  128. 128
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    @WereBear:

    Cat tree boxes are the best! If only they could transmit that charisma to the actual cat trees.

  129. 129

    @Chyron HR: That’s not what I said. What I was implying is respect for the other’s position, rather than dismissing it as a signal of personal difficulties.

  130. 130
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Ok, fair enough. Some other commentere were talking about the House in that context and I lumped you into that.

    I don’t recall the tweeter telling people to sit back either, but I’m ok the move and don’t feel like reexamining the tweets.

  131. 131
    chopper says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    uh, armchairshrink was talking about ‘do something twitter’, not congress, you fucking feeb.

  132. 132
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Another Scott:

    I already did. You just didn’t like the answer. The GOP has been tearing to shreds your real world” for over a generation.

    Go read Joanne Freedman’s “Fields of Blood.” The northern Democrats and Whigs had exactly the helpless response to southern intimidation in the 1830s and 1840s. Then the Republicans showed up in the 1850s and played hardball in response.

  133. 133
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay:
    I think the reason Berke had to wait was that all the house members went first for the TVs and then Berke got to question. I don’t think it’s Nadler alone — but all the House members who will not cede their time to the staff counsel.

  134. 134
    JPL says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s getting enough coverage that trump will try to change the subject. buckle up

  135. 135
    New Deal democrat says:

    @chopper:

    Do Something Twitter is reacting to the “We’re powerless” House.

    And by your standards NY Times reporter Kurt Eichenwald is also a “fucking feel:”
    https://mobile.twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1174448342807515136

    I agree with every word in his thread.

  136. 136
    Kathleen says:

    @satby:That’s one of the best tweets ever. I agree 100 %.

  137. 137
    Immanentize says:

    @New Deal democrat:
    Small “D” Democrat. Clearly.

  138. 138
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Actually, they can. If you curse at a judge in a courtroom, the judge can have you hauled away to a jail cell immediately of their own authority. They don’t have to ask permission from any prosecutor. It’s called inherent contempt.

    The DoJ only has to prosecute criminal contempt. Yesterday Nadler had the inherent contempt power to have Lewandowski removed in handcuffs.

  139. 139
    chopper says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    exactly. those are the people he’s talking to here, the reflexively anti-democratic folks on twitter. he’s telling them that constantly taking out their frustrations with trump on the democratic party’s electoral chances in 2020 is not a good strategy and maybe they need to figure out a better way.

  140. 140
    Spanky says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was thinking Sexy Mr. Moose

  141. 141
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Immanentize:

    Yes, because being a democrat means marching in lockstep behind leadership 100% of the time.

    Clearly.

  142. 142
    Immanentize says:

    Let’s imagine a world where only about 33 people out of a hundred are willing to vote for A. But the vote for A people are very passionate about A. They demand action on A. They demand that everything that they want to happen to make A happen must happen! Now!

    Even though many others are A positive and maybe some are A curious, more than half of the hundred — maybe 55-60 will likely never vote for A.

    Will the passion of a distinct minority mean that A will prevail?

  143. 143
    chopper says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    “do something twitter” is reacting the way uninformed people on twitter react to shit. so the fuck what?

  144. 144
    Immanentize says:

    @New Deal democrat:
    Unintelligible answer.

  145. 145
    Immanentize says:

    Just to add new facts to this continuous loop:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told members of her caucus in a closed-door meeting Wednesday that Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee should have held former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski in contempt “then and there” during Tuesday’s hearing.

    From TPM

  146. 146
    New Deal democrT says:

    Armchairshrink’s argument is that criticizing House Dems for inaction, or lethargic action, hurts their electoral chances in 2020. I 100% hard disagree.

    It’s as if the house is burning down, and the fire company is polishing their hoses to make sure their gear is 110% ready, before they go out and fight the fire. It is not “green lantern ism” to tell them to go fight the fire now with the equipment they already have.

  147. 147
    Kay says:

    @Immanentize:

    then Berke got to question.

    Having counsel question is better anyway because then the Trumpsters can’t score points by attacking D members. That’s what riles up Trump’s base, being disrespectful to D electeds. Put a person in there between and that opportunity goes away.

    As for Nadler, he suffers from the NY curse of “knowing Donald Trump”. I don’t know what it is, but politicians who knew Trump in his home city are really ineffective against him. Schumer is the same way. When’s the last time you heard a fucking peep out of Schumer? He popped up to scold Beto and then went back to sleep. Something happened to these people. They got sucked into the Trump vortex somewhere in the last 50 years.

  148. 148

    To add to the Trump IC whistleblower story, the Post says the whistleblower worked inside the WH and has since returned to their agency. So presumably that means the news didn’t come from phone surveillance?

    I wish I thought the Rs would care about this.

  149. 149
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Immanentize: Huh. Why would Pelosi want to destroy the “residual sense of comity” between Congress and the administration?

  150. 150
    PJ says:

    @Kay: Schumer is pretty much a void except when it comes to reflexively promoting Israeli policy and Wall Street. If we take back the Senate, he needs to go as Majority Leader, but I don’t know who is going to take his place.

    But, as you point out, there is a larger problem in Democratic strategy regarding impeachment and Trump (and Trumpism) generally. The first problem is that, if there is a strategy, they sure as hell haven’t communicated it to the public. Which makes me think they don’t really have a strategy – there’s no need for it to be a secret. The fact that most committee members didn’t cede their time to counsel is another indication that they don’t see a need to take this seriously.

  151. 151
    rp says:

    @Betty Cracker: Damn it. I came here to post exactly that.

  152. 152
    Immanentize says:

    @Betty Cracker: Ha! I just report (about reports of reports) you decide.

    I am not a fan of the residual comity argument. That’s gone. But there is some value I think in preserving institutional credibility. The Republicans have tried to shred it for a decade or more. I can understand the strong desire to “go high” as some great woman once said. High is slow and not dramatic. I really don’t know what is best right now.

    ETA I think your “Do Something vs. Clap Harder” is a false binary. But we do live in a zero and one world.

  153. 153
    Starfish says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Judging by Twitter, disability Twitter is some of the most radical Twitter there is because when we fail, they die. ADAPT did a sit-in Cory Gardner’s office. Carrie Ann Lucas died when her insurance denied her some expensive antibiotic, and she got sicker and sicker.

    I am glad there are people here disagreeing with Armchairshrink. I expected that Trump would be impeached within the first six months. I did not expect to be sitting through his whole first term because all the Republicans decided to fall in line. I expected the Republicans in Congress to do their job, instead of trying to protect their power. Failing that, I expect him to be tied up in so many lawsuits that all of his time is spent with his attorneys, not on Twitter and not on the golf course.

  154. 154

    @New Deal democrat:

    Yesterday Nadler had the inherent contempt power to have Lewandowski removed in handcuffs.

    Yeah, boot him out of the building! Being mildly embarrassed will sure stop him from lying to congress.

    The House has no other power that does not have to include the Senate, the Executive, or the Judicial branches. The first two ain’t happening. The powers that include the Judicial branch are already being done, but they are slow.

    @Jinchi:

    It seems abundantly clear that Nancy Pelosi would like all talk of impeachment to go away.

    See @Immanentize. The stuff about Pelosi being anti-impeachment is bullshit. Quotes where she dislikes ‘right now!!!’ are taken out of context of her repeatedly saying she’s dotting the is and crossing the ts. Democrats can’t get credit for what they are already doing. It was ever thus.

  155. 155
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    People who think he’s overreacting have to understand: on Twitter they routinely take it to the extreme of calling the Democrats the real enemy.

    Then @armchairshrink’s message may have been appropriate for its intended audience, but it’s simply out of place when targeted at garden-variety liberals rather than the left’s lunatic fringe. (I spend plenty of time on Twitter these days, but I never see the ‘they’ you refer to, fwiw. I’ll grant their existence, but they’re far from omnipresent on Twitter, even in places that a liberal might go.)

  156. 156

    @PJ:

    The first problem is that, if there is a strategy, they sure as hell haven’t communicated it to the public.

    Yes, they have. The public is only fed Democrats In Disarray stories, and even when Pelosi’s statements that they’re gathering information and getting the court cases they have going settled before a vote are reported, they instantly disappear down the memory hole because the narrative is set.

  157. 157
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    That would suggest maybe a DNI aide?

  158. 158
    Percysowner says:

    @Another Scott: I was rather annoyed by people who are all “Pelosi isn’t behind impeachment, how DARE she criticize Nadler for not charging Lewandowski with contempt?”. Guys, this hearing is a way to ramp up public opinion and show how the impeachment hearings would go. That means showing how Nadler will act when ‘the rubber meets the road’ as it were. If he shows that he’s not going to use all the tools available now, then there is no point in committing to a process that some of the Democratic caucus is not willing to pursue.

    Plus, the point is to get the public to the place where they see impeachment as necessary, not a way to overturn the last election.

  159. 159
    Starfish says:

    @Baud: She wasn’t talking about the House. She said “if we all” meaning people in general and not the House. A lot of us have been involved in activism since Trump got elected and are somewhat burned out, but we cannot sit there and do nothing and pretend doing nothing is righteous because the things we have tried may not work. It is demoralizing to try things that may not work, but we have to keep trying.

    Also, I got stuck early in this thread because of something you said.

  160. 160
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Wait until a DEM is in the WH, then whether they do it or not Rs will care.

  161. 161
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Princess:

    Thank you.

  162. 162
    zhena gogolia says:

    I’ve been nagging my rep to come out for impeachment. She hasn’t budged so far. But I won’t quit nagging.

    But I’m focusing my energy on getting the Repubs out, not on sniping at Democrats.

  163. 163
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Immanentize:

    Let’s imagine a world where only about 33 people out of a hundred are willing to vote for A. But the vote for A people are very passionate about A. They demand action on A. They demand that everything that they want to happen to make A happen must happen! Now!

    Even though many others are A positive and maybe some are A curious, more than half of the hundred — maybe 55-60 will likely never vote for A.

    Will the passion of a distinct minority mean that A will prevail?

    If A = Trump’s re-election, sounds like the world we’re living in.

  164. 164
    New Deal democrat says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    No, don’t “boot him out of the building.”

    Inter him in a jail cell until he agrees to answer the Committee’s questions.

    Congress is supposed to be a co-equal branch of government.

    Do you all not see the precedent for future GOP President’s that Trump is setting?

    – rule by Emergency Decrees (so long as you have 1/3+ one Senator it will stick).
    -refuse all cooperation with any House in which Democrats have a majority
    -appoint “acting” Executive Branch officers at will
    -use the military at will

    Unless and until Congress asserts its authority, why should any President pay any attention to it?

  165. 165
    Jeffro says:

    Meanwhile, on Twitter, both “trumpov Jeopardy answers” and “dating Stephen Miller” are trending and hysterically so.

    (Yes, someone really is dating Stephen Miller, apparently. No, she hasn’t been seen yet because it’s still daylight outside.)

    LOLOL

  166. 166
    Immanentize says:

    @low-tech cyclist: I think it’s applicable to a lot of our situations. But you are right, it works for Trump’s re-election as well. I still think A supporters can’t win in those circumstances. But of course, complicated!

  167. 167
    NotMax says:

    @Percysowner

    I am unable to fault Pelosi for verbally lighting fire under Nadler’s ass. The position of Speaker makes the Wallendas look like rank amateurs.

  168. 168
    Served says:

    I reject the premise that people saying “Do something” are hysterical and foolish. We’ve seen a blanket inability of Congress to hold people accountable. While the justice system was untainted, there managed to be consequences for a few Trump cronies, but since then it’s mostly been a parade of flouting the law and taunting Democrats in the House and Senate (where they have little to no recourse). It’s not just Trump and impeachment, it’s Sessions, it’s Kavanaugh, it’s Lewandowski. It’s abdicating power and responsibility.

    And sure, let’s win in 2020. Any structural changes made from 2020 to the 2022 midterms are going to be controversial, too. Nuking the filibuster would be a scene, and even that opens up a whole problem when Dems are locked out of power again in the future. If we’re going to flip tables, start flipping it where you have a grip now.

  169. 169
    zhena gogolia says:

    @NotMax:

    Last night I did a dramatic reading of vol. 2, pp. 90-92, of the Mueller Report for my husband, then showed him a few minutes of the Berke questioning of Lewandowski. His jaw was hanging open — based on a total of 10 minutes of my edumacating him. Why can’t the news networks do this with their 24/7?

  170. 170
    germy says:

    @Jeffro:

    (Yes, someone really is dating Stephen Miller, apparently. No, she hasn’t been seen yet because it’s still daylight outside.)

    I’m pretty sure she’s an inflatable.

  171. 171
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Served:

    Have you read vol. 2, pp. 90-92, of the Mueller report and watched the Barry Berke questioning of Lewandowski?

    Screaming “Do something” without bothering to notice that something is being done is, in my view, hysterical.

  172. 172
    Served says:

    @zhena gogolia: I’m not screaming, though. I’m expecting a co-equal branch to do their job, and if you think that hearing on Tuesday was anything but an embarrassment. They’re clearly slow walking this and “doing it the right way” is a nice handwave over it. There is plenty of red meat out there on the fringes of these investigations that they should have already scooped up.

    This is setting the standard where we will just have to live with lawlessness for four years at a time every time crooks flow into the White House. I don’t think it’s sustainable.

  173. 173
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @zhena gogolia: It’s been the same since the first revelations about Russian interference efforts in the summer of 2016: Everybody who cares, knows, and a lot of people who know, don’t care.

    I still can’t believe the lumpenmittel aren’t even just a little bit curious about why he’s so desperate to cover up his taxes, how they’re not grossed out by grifting at his hotels, that from “grab’em by…” to the fact that his first wife said under oath that he raped her in a fit of rage, his embrace of Otto Warmbier’s murderer, inviting the Taliban to Camp David…. It’s all out there. Right in front of their faces.

  174. 174
    Miss Bianca says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: @Spanky: You guys are scaring me, here. But I’m also LMAO, so there’s probably something wrong with me.

  175. 175

    @New Deal democrat:

    Inter him in a jail cell until he agrees to answer the Committee’s questions.

    The House does not have that power. It does not have a jail cell. The House can levy a fine, which if the Executive refuses to pay will have to go through the courts. There are also limits on the fine, the yearly pay of the official government position the person holds. Trump’s people make their money off of grift, so that won’t do much good.

    The marshal can escort him out of the building or deliver a message saying to pay the treasury, which if the treasury ignores he can ignore.

    Trump is being backed up by the entire Republican power system. When one of two political parties and their voters go all-in on destroying Democracy, there are no simple and easy answers.

  176. 176
    Jinchi says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The stuff about Pelosi being anti-impeachment is bullshit. Quotes where she dislikes ‘right now!!!’ are taken out of context of her repeatedly saying she’s dotting the is and crossing the ts.

    “I don’t think we should go down that path, because it divides the country and he’s just not worth it.”

    “You’re wasting your time, unless the evidence is so conclusive the Republicans will understand.”

    “We shouldn’t impeach a president because of a political reason, but we shouldn’t not impeach if the evidence is there for impeachment. But that’s not where we are.”

    “We can investigate Trump without drafting articles. The facts regarding holding the president accountable can be gained outside of impeachment hearings.”

    “We’re not there yet.”

    “Impeachment is the easy way out for some of these people.”

    “Trump is goading us to impeach him.”

    “He’s becoming self-impeachable.”

    These are not the words of a woman who is working to impeach the president.

  177. 177
    glory b says:

    @New Deal democrT: I don’t think this is a good analogy.

    I’m looking at it this way: The Dems in the House vote to impeach in the near future, McConnell won’t bring it up for a vote, it dies, Trump spends the rest of the next year and a half crowing about complete exoneration, no collusion, no obstruction, etc.

    Then, as the news cycle does, the story dies a relatively quick death. Anytime a Dem brings it up, the reaction is “You bringing that up again? You lost, get over it.”

    But, if you can drag it out, it may keep some effect. Be honest, how many outrages has Trump & Co committed that have fallen down the memory hole? This will too.

    I do think, however, that Nadler needs to push the members to concede more time to their hired attorneys. Cross examination is a particular skill, not every attorney can do it. I also believe that they should be more aggressive in wielding the contempt sword, show them that they can expect more than sighs and strongly worded letters.

    every time the Dems went to court for these issues, they won. The judges even said they didn’t need impeachment proceedings, these hearings are a valid part of their constitutional oversight authority.

  178. 178
    NotMax says:

    @Frankensteinbeck

    Historical nitpick – the House does have a jail cell. Cannot speak to now but used to be a part of the regular tour for visitors.

  179. 179
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    What would they do with that information? Ostracize themselves from their friends, families, communities, and business associates? Better not to know.

  180. 180
    artem1s says:

    @Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi):

    Plus, as I said in my spammed comment 😠, we have a Law and Order mentality. We want everything wrapped up neatly by the end of the episode. Our current situation is not like that.

    I’d argue that we SHOULDN’T want everything wrapped up neatly by removing Dolt from office. I want the whole gang of thieves out of office or imprisoned this time. Not just the family but every one of the GOP thugs and Christian Taliban that enabled Dolt to get into office and stay there. Impeachment isn’t enough for me anymore. And won’t make one lick of difference if Moscow Mitch is still blocking appointees to the federal courts.

  181. 181
    lurker dean says:

    @Betty Cracker: i’m with you, betty. we are watching all of our institutions become corrupt and crumble in real time.

  182. 182
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @New Deal democrat: Congress has no power to have the DC police hold all of the people who have ignored their subpoenaes in a DC jail until they comply?

    I don’t know. And if they do, is it “Congress”, or the House?

    Using their Article I powers to the max is now “green lantern” theory?

    Article 1 refers to the Congress as a whole, not just the House of Representatives. What are you doing, and where, to put Mitch McConnell in the minority? Picking fights with the Tepid on blogs doesn’t count.

  183. 183
    rp says:

    @Jinchi: I buy the argument that Pelosi and the House have put the wheels in motion and are getting stuff done, even if they’re not getting credit for it, but her messaging on this has been mediocre at best. I like Pelosi and think she’s a great pol, but she’s not infallible, and I think she’s not helping the situation by appearing wishy washy on impeachment. Saying “trust her, she knows what she’s doing” is just another form of green lantern thinking IMO.

    In fact, the sentiments expressed by armchairshrink and others like him often come across as mansplaining to me (although I’m a guy, so maybe I have that wrong). There’s a “well, actually, you don’t know how these things really work little one” attitude.

  184. 184
    Another Scott says:

    @NotMax: WaPo from May:

    […]

    On Wednesday, during a Washington Post Live event held at the news outlet’s headquarters, reporter Robert Costa asked House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) whether Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin could be arrested for rejecting House Democrats’ request to turn over six years of tax returns for President Trump and some of his companies.

    As the audience clapped, Pelosi smiled coyly and raised her palms to the audience in a reassuring manner. “Let me just say that we do have a jail down in the basement of the Capitol,” she said as everyone laughed. “But if we were arresting all of the people in the administration, we would have an overcrowded jail situation, and I’m not for that.”

    […]

    A spokesman for the speaker told The Post on Thursday that, if ever it came down to arresting people, Congress could detain them in one of the rooms controlled by the House sergeant at arms. An email to the office of the sergeant at arms was not immediately returned Thursday.

    Or, the Pelosi spokesman said, they could be thrown in the lockup at Capitol Police headquarters, at 119 D St. in Northeast Washington. “We can fit a maximum of two people,” said a sergeant who picked up the phone at the Capitol Police office and who declined to be identified.

    […]

    Perhaps the closest thing resembling a slammer at the Capitol is the gated, locked enclosure, under the Capitol Crypt, holding the Lincoln catafalque, a wooden platform built for Abraham Lincoln’s coffin. The room — a tomb meant to hold the body of George Washington — looks like a jail. But a jail it is not.

    According to the office of the Architect of the Capitol, which preserves and maintains the buildings and grounds of the Capitol, no jail or detention area has existed on the campus since 1877. That’s when, according to a description in the Congressional Record, two Louisiana election officials were jailed in “a little room in the basement of the Capitol, with but two windows, opening upon no sunlight, but upon a narrow confined court into which no gleam of sunshine can ever enter.” (Not even a gleam!) It gets worse. The room was so dark and foul that, according to the Congressional Record, the room smelled “like the den of some foul reptile, a room where thieves arrested around the Capitol are kept.”

    […]

    FWIW. ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  185. 185
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    my beef with the Do Something crowd is it seems like the same people who wanted Obama to act as an absolute monarch– Throw the Banksters in Jail! Just seat Merrick Garland! Mint the Platinum Coin! Declare the 2016 Election invalid– now want Nancy Pelosi to impeach (if not convict and remove) trump with less than a majority vote in one half of one third of the federal government. And it seems like there’s some significant overlap with the people who told me in 2000 and 2016 (also, don’t try to blackmail me with the Supreme Court!) that there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties and their nominees.

  186. 186
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I don’t know about a specific overlap of people (although there are some), but it’s the same culture.

  187. 187
    rp says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Not true for me. I was completely exasperated with the “do something” crowd in the Merrick Garland situation (and w/r/t Obama generally). I suspect there are a lot of average Dems like me who are not green lantern types and yet are fed up with the current situation.

  188. 188
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @rp: I’m fed up, too, but not with the people who are trying to make the best of that bad current situation, who are going to war with the electorate and colleagues they have rather than et cetera et cetera

  189. 189
    Kathleen says:

    @Jinchi: Adam Schiff is the one pushing that Committee should be given report

    He has been vocal about its urgency and is taking action. How is he disappointing you today?

  190. 190
    Another Scott says:

    @rp: I think just about everyone here is fed up with Donnie and the GOP Senate and the RWNJ courts.
    But ultimately we can only change the “situation” by changing the laws. Reducing the President’s power to act using “emergency powers”. Reducing the ability of “acting” people to hold power in the Executive branch. Changing the way the courts work (more Justices on SCOTUS?
    20 year terms rather than Life? Rotating Justices/Judges? Age limits? Different appointment and confirmation process?) Etc. And that means changing the majority in the Senate and the President and keeping the House.

    It sucks, but either we’re a nation of laws or we aren’t. We need to channel our outrage in a productive direction.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  191. 191
    Betty Cracker says:

    @rp: Co-signed. Also this:

    Saying “trust her, she knows what she’s doing” is just another form of green lantern thinking IMO.

  192. 192
    rp says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I don’t see pushing Pelosi and the House to be more vocal about impeachment as going to war with our colleagues. As Betty noted above, Obama’s quote “make me do it” is often cited along with the point that Pelosi needs more support from the Dems in the house. Well, we’re trying to make them do it.

  193. 193
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @rp: I meant going to war with trump and his enablers

    @rp:

    Pelosi needs more support from the Dems in the house. Well, we’re trying to make them do it.

    A lot of Do Something crowd, not you, but here and on twitter, focus their rage on Pelosi. If she shows something called “leadership”, Max Rose, Jeff van Drew, Colin Peterson and Abigail Spanberger will support impeachment, and their constituents will follow. Just like if Obama had been louder and angrier, Mark Pryor and Mary Landrieu (and probably a dozen other Senators and god knows how many House members) would have been for the robust public option and a Krugman-approved stimulus

    ETA: also, just realistically looking at the numbers and her off-the-cuff rhetorical skills (not good) I’m not sure that Pelosi being more vocal about impeachment would be effective. I love Pelosi, but she’s an old-school, backroom, pre-TV pol, not a natural motivator of broad parts of the electorate

  194. 194

    @Another Scott:
    So, I stand corrected. They can make him stand in a corner for a few hours until the nearest judge says “Fuck that, that’s not due process and it’s not a jail. Let him go.”

  195. 195
    rp says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Agreed about Pelosi being more vocal. What I should have said is that Pelosi’s public comments aren’t helpful, and therefore she needs to stop commenting and designate another rep as the public face and point of contact for all of the House’s Trump investigations.

  196. 196

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    A lot of Do Something crowd, not you, but here and on twitter, focus their rage on Pelosi.

    Oh my god, I have seen so many ‘Dems are collaborators’ tweets, is it any wonder I’m trigger-happy about people who think the House can fix this? The House cannot fix this. Even an immediate impeachment will not fix this. Whether you support it or not, it will only be a statement, nothing more. I personally voted to put a brake on Mitch McConnell destroying the safety net, and I got it, and god damn am I grateful.

  197. 197
    Jinchi says:

    @Kathleen: When did I criticize Schiff?

  198. 198
    joel hanes says:

    @New Deal democrat:

    Yesterday Nadler had the inherent contempt power to have Lewandowski removed in handcuffs.

    And then what?

    Detained where?
    With what guards?
    Fed how?
    What do they do when an expedited appeal to the Roberts [spit] court orders him immediately freed?

    Or what do they do when Trump’s FBI or some other security force comes to get him?

  199. 199
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax:

    Capitol Police officers from multiple divisions told CQ Roll Call that no House jail exists, though Capitol Police headquarters on D Street Northeast does have a holding facility.

    One Capitol Police officer joked that if they don’t know where the alleged holding cell in the Capitol basement is, but Pelosi does, the speaker might have to escort any prisoner, say, like Barr, personally.

    “Obviously, there is not a functioning jail in the Capitol,” a senior Democratic aide told CQ Roll Call on Wednesday.

    linky

  200. 200
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @joel hanes: as best as I can follow, if Nancy Pelosi had the guts to order Lewandowski (and Hicks and Barr and Mnuchin and McGann) taken away and cast into irons! then The People would see how serious all this is.

    The same People who now, when confronted with massive evidence of the embrace of illegal campaign assistance from a foreign government, obstruction of justice, massive corruption and self-enrichment on the part of the President and his family, historic incompetence, literally bragging about sexual assault and bellowing hog calls of racism, shrug and say “Oh, it’s all just politics”. Those doughty, thoughtful sophisticates will realize the damage being done to the Constitution. All those folk need is a little drama.

  201. 201
    J R in WV says:

    @Immanentize:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi told members of her caucus in a closed-door meeting Wednesday that Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee should have held former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski in contempt “then and there” during Tuesday’s hearing.

    From TPM.

    I think Ms Pelosi, if she intends to have witnesses held in contempt then and there, needs to meet with DC Mayor and city council, to arrange to have Senior DC police officers on hand to do the handcuffing and taking away to the DC City Jail, where they will remain along with scary black thugs until the documents are disgorged and the witnesses agree to answer questions, all the questions.

    Good Ol’ Corey lied, either to the FBI interviewers or to Congress, which is perjury, for which contemptuous act he should be in jail. No Cell phone, no milkshake, bread and water like the USN brig does. The acting DCI should be picked up at 3 am by armed SWAT team, and jailed. The Commerce Secretary likewise.

  202. 202
    joel hanes says:

    meet with DC Mayor and city council, to arrange to have Senior DC police officers on hand to do the handcuffing and taking away to the DC City Jail

    IANAL, but it’s my current belief that this would be Pelosi violating a bunch of applicable laws.

    Criminal contempt of Congress must be referred to the DoJ for prosecution.
    Inherent contempt is a faded sepia daguerreotype of a picture of a tiger that lived in the DC zoo until 1930

  203. 203
    sukabi says:

    Ha. That entire last twitter thread should be on repeat every day.

  204. 204
    New Deal democrat says:

    @joel hanes:

    First of all, it is inherent contempt, where they can act themselves, rather than criminal contempt, where they have to ask the DoJ.
    Second, if they asked the Sergeant at Arms to have the witness held in the DC jail, and the DC police were agreeable, that’s where the witness can be held.
    Finally, if federal agents were willing to violate the Constitution and go to War with Congress on Trump’s orders, that is on them and Trump, not Congress.

    You are advocating for pre-emotive surrender.

  205. 205
    Jeffro says:

    Looks like the IG shared no details with the House Intelligence Committee this morning…your ball, Congress

  206. 206
    Kathleen says:

    @Jinchi: You did not. I just assumed you were lumping him and this scenario in the Democrats are useless bucket. But you know what “they say” about the word “assume” LOL.

  207. 207
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    pre-emotive

    interesting

  208. 208
    TenguPhule says:

    @Another Scott:

    but either we’re a nation of laws or we aren’t.

    We haven’t been a nation of laws since 1/21/2017.

  209. 209
    Philbert says:

    Actually the physical punishment of standing in a corner for a few hours would be pretty good

  210. 210
    NotMax says:

    @Immanentize

    From the same link:

    An interview with longtime Senate counsel Chuck Ludlam conducted by the Senate Historical Office’s oral history project shows that the confusion about the jail’s existence is longstanding.

    “I went to the Architect of the Capitol and found out where the old Capitol jail was located. There was at one time a jail here in the Capitol where the Congress could imprison citizens who refused to comply with its subpoenas,” Ludlam said.

    “Several rooms in the Capitol have evidently been used for detention of offenders. They were called ‘Guard Rooms’ and it is not always clear whether those rooms were kept strictly for custody of prisoners or whether they were also used as a guard station,” then-Architect of the Capitol George M. White told Ludlam.

Comments are closed.