Wednesday Afternoon Open Thread: Mr. Klassy

In response, Jake Tapper retweeted this 2016 clip:

138 replies
  1. 1
    Juju says:

    What a dick.

  2. 2
    trollhattan says:

    Ooh, he called Cokie “Nasty.” And yet she persisted.

  3. 3
    Emerald says:

    Can’t believe I listened to that. Well, we’re sure being laughed at all over the world now!

  4. 4
    Wag says:

    “Christ, what an asshole “ needs to be a rotating tag line.

  5. 5
    donnah says:

    Hey, it’s always about him. A famous journalist dies and he cannot manage to simply send condolences. Nope, it’s all about how she offended him in some way.

    Jeezus, what an asshole!

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Emerald: It’s remarkable when you travel overseas and have social interactions with people you haven’t met before, they kind of feel around, gently, to see if you might be a T supporter. When you satisfy them that you’re the opposite, then they allow their incredulity and (often) pity to come out loud and clear.

  7. 7
    Mnemosyne says:

    I MIGHT be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel of my almost 2 year long quest to get a fucking CPAP machine so I don’t die in my fucking sleep. Allegedly, the respiratory therapist has secured the correct machine for me this time, so I have to drive out to frickin’ Canoga Park in the middle of the afternoon to pick it up, or wait even longer until he has time to bring it to me.

    I got a call from the medical director of my HMO yesterday to (gently) scold me for an ER visit that (fortunately) turned out to be a minor issue, and he was horrified to hear that I’m experiencing apnea-related heart palpitations but still don’t have my fucking machine. I think that visions of lawsuits were dancing in his head, as they should be.

  8. 8
    SFAW says:


    Good luck! Keeping my fingers crossed, etc.

  9. 9
    Jeffro says:

    Yup that trumpov sure is a dick.

    Hey, how about the DNI refusing to comply with a Congressional subpoena for information on an urgent IC whistleblower case, hmm? That’s pretty nuts. I wonder who the DNI’s running cover for?

  10. 10
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    How a real President speaks about the death of an iconic journalist.

    “Michelle and I are sad to hear about the passing of Cokie Roberts,” he said in an emailed statement. “She was a trailblazing figure; a role model to young women at a time when the profession was still dominated by men; a constant over forty years of a shifting media landscape and changing world, informing voters about the issues of our time and mentoring young journalists every step of the way.”

    “She will be missed ― and we send our condolences to her family.”

  11. 11
    Yutsano says:


    I wonder who the DNI’s running cover for?

    ‘The answer is within the problem…”

  12. 12
    Jerzy Russian says:

    @Mnemosyne: Wow, sorry to hear about these difficulties. I have Kaiser, and a lot of people I know like to knock on Kaiser. However, I went to my doctor complaining of being tired, he sent me to the sleep place, I got a take-home test kit, I used it and tested positive for moderate sleep apnea, they fitted me for a mask, and sent me home with a machine. My sleep has improved, but not to the extent that was like a night-to-day difference that others have had. This is probably because my condition is not dangerously severe like yours it.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    Mai naem mobile says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I am old enough to remember Cokie Robert’s criticizing Obama going to Hawaii on vacation because it was too ‘exotic’ and I believe she also.made a comment during the ’08 campaign about Obama being from Hawaii which was foreign or exotic to regular Americans. Even Barack Obama got over that criticism and made an appropriate statement about Cokie’s passing.

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @Mai naem mobile:

    Even out of office, if Obama spent one day acting as crudely as Trump does, the story would dominate the media for months.

  16. 16
    Mary G says:

    @Mnemosyne: Think of all the people with apnea who get refused and just “oh, well,” give up and continue to suffer. Good on you for fighting, and if you’re anything like me, the machine will make a huge improvement in your life.

  17. 17
    Jeffro says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I hope it well and truly burns not just trumpov but all of his scuzzy family that no matter how much money they launder for Russia, no matter how many lies they tell at rallies or retweet on social media, no matter how Many flags they hump or days they spend playing golf on the taxpayer dime…they will never, ever come close to having even 1/100th the class that the Obamas have and display on a daily basis. Not 1/1000th.

  18. 18
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Mai naem mobile: Yep. That’s called Class. something djt thinks he cut in school.

  19. 19
    SFAW says:

    And, because I’m a loyal Mets fan:

    At the other end of the “class” spectrum, we have Florida-born Mets rookie Pete Alonso, who bought each of his teammates custom-made cleats, each with a different design, commemorating 9/11. That was despite the MLB front office telling him “No.”

    Ah, the good ol’ MLB front office: “Y’all think Roger Goodell’s an asshole? Hold our beer.”

  20. 20
    SRW1 says:

    The T man has no class and never will develop any.

  21. 21
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @SFAW: I guess the No Fun League has some competition.

  22. 22
    Ruckus says:

    A great band name.
    Visions of Lawsuits
    I’ve always liked it when insurance company decision makers see their worst nightmare, while on the phone with me.

  23. 23
    rikyrah says:


    sending positive thoughts…may it be coming to help you soon.

  24. 24
    Mnemosyne says:



    @Jerzy Russian:

    I was with Kaiser years ago, but I had issues getting prescriptions that were not available as generics because of their contract with my employer. Right now, I’m dealing with a sub-contractor of a sub-contractor, which isn’t helping, to say the least.

    I do have an appointment with a cardiologist now, which the medical director made for me personally. If I get my machine tomorrow as I (allegedly) will, then I’ll be happy.

    @Mary G:

    I’m trying not to get my hopes up too high, but since I have severe apnea (my AHI was 49 at my sleep test in July), I would like to see a pretty rapid improvement. We’ll see how it goes.

  25. 25
    Ruckus says:

    Class can’t be measured by a price tag, so no, they don’t think that way.

  26. 26
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’ve always liked it when insurance company decision makers see their worst nightmare, while on the phone with me.

    I think that’s exactly what happened. I have to admit, it gave me great joy to hear it dawn on this doctor that I was going to be costing his company a LOT of money if they didn’t get their asses in gear. 😈


    Thank you! ❤️

  27. 27
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jeffro: always struck me as ironic that trump was far more of a trust fund baby than Willard Romney, and Romny lost in no small part because he was such a blazing toff, and trump, with more and “older” money inherited, won in no small part because his crude vulgarity made people think he must be self-made.

  28. 28
    Mnemosyne says:


    They genuinely don’t understand how people can love and respect the Obamas, because they think that you get love and respect by forcing it out of people that you control with money and power. They literally cannot understand any human feeling that doesn’t come from fear, because it’s the only thing they were taught.

    I could feel sorry for them if they weren’t taking the rest of us down with them.

  29. 29
    prostratedragon says:

    @Mnemosyne: Hope you get it today. I’ve been using mine for, come to think of it, almost exactly 5 years, and have no doubt that without it I’d likely be gone by now.

  30. 30
    germy says:

    the last time i went to urgent care i checked off “excessive crying” on the symptom list and the nurse got really confused and told me that was meant for babies
    — oatly barista blend sommelier (@BUGPOSTING) September 18, 2019

  31. 31
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    won in no small part because his crude vulgarity made people think he must be self-made.

    Nah… He won in no small part because his crude vulgarity made people think he was another hate filled racist pos just like them.

  32. 32
    prostratedragon says:

    @Jeffro: On their (Obamas) off days.

  33. 33
    Mnemosyne says:

    Also, a sleep apnea PSA for the ladies: OSA (obstructive sleep apnea) is diagnosed more often in men, but a lot of doctors don’t realize that menopause can also cause structural changes that result in OSA in women who haven’t had issues before, or who had only minor issues.

    If you’re going through or have gone through menopause and you’re tired all the time, or your blood pressure starts going up, or your cholesterol won’t budge no matter what you eat or how much you exercise, ask your doctor to refer you for a sleep study. You may have developed OSA without realizing it.

  34. 34
    West of the Rockies says:


    Best wishes, M. I very much value your presence here. Take care of yourself.

  35. 35
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @germy: Heh.

  36. 36
    delk says:

    @Mnemosyne: I have had yearly 6 figure insurance claims for the last ten years without any problems. Doctors, ERs, specialists, hospitals, you name it, and everything has been smooth sailing. Except for the CPAP people. Years of nothing but nightmares from those disorganized assholes.

  37. 37
    Capri says:

    @Mnemosyne: Hate to tell you, but just getting a CPAP is the start of the constant headache of dealing with the folks who want you to buy the associated disposable equipment all the time. In my case they are billed by a third party who couldn’t itemize them if they tried because they don’t get sent that information. Last week I got 4 medical supply bills ranging from $3.00 to $450.00 in one envelope. Just the amount, no itemization or explanation. When I called I was told that I was all paid up and owe nothing. And no idea why I was sent any bill.

    I have heard that there is a CPAP users web page with lots of good information and suggestions – like how to buy the replacement equipment directly and cut out the mark-up.

  38. 38
    germy says:

    This thread was fascinating: Reasons why people chose their college majors. Some hilarious stories, some painful/sad

    FOR A PIECE: What's the embarrassingly dumb reason you chose your college major and/or career? Please air your regrets in this thread.— Miles Klee (@MilesKlee) September 16, 2019

  39. 39
    Mnemosyne says:


    The women on my dad’s side of the family tend to develop heart problems that end up requiring a pacemaker even if they don’t smoke and don’t have other risk factors, so it’s most likely due to undiagnosed sleep apnea. One of my aunts on that side who has had a lot of heart issues also has sleep apnea and a CPAP, so I’m hoping this will help me avoid a pacemaker for as long as possible. 🤞

  40. 40
    Geeno says:

    @Mnemosyne: My wife and I both have CPAP machines – probably for the reason you meantioned.
    You’re gonna love it when you get yours. I can’t imagine sleeping without it now.

  41. 41
  42. 42
    jl says:

    Roberts’ question was only very slightly more ‘nasty’ than similar questions to many other candidates whose supporters do nasty things in their names . But Trump, a self-proclaimed tough guy who wants no careful PC talk, can’t take it and still remembers and resents it.

    Trump said ‘he wants people to come into the country’, presumably referring to legal immigration. Everything his administration has done is counter to that claim, and he hired people like Miller and Bannon who have stated frankly, that they want less legal immigration not more and proposed policies to accomplish that goal. I wonder whether Trump is aware of that contradiction? Honest question, given the apparently very confused and incoherent state of Trump’s mind.

    Edit: OK, semi-honest question, since Trump lies a lot. He lies about stuff he doesn’t need to, apparently because that is just what he does.

  43. 43
    germy says:

    I chose to be an English major and work in book publishing because Jackie O. did it and it seemed glamorous. It is not glamorous.— Kathleen Schmidt (@Bookgirl96) September 16, 2019

  44. 44
    germy says:

    Like many people who went to library school, I thought at age 20 "I don't know what I want to do in life, I like books and I'm not a people person, may as well work in a library" but it turns out they don't actually let you read and you have to talk to people all day— Daniel Carkner (@dan_carkner) September 16, 2019

  45. 45


    I wonder who the DNI’s running cover for?

    My money’s on Jared.

  46. 46
    Mnemosyne says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Aww, thank you. ❤️ Fortunately, it all seems to be little stuff that can be nipped in the bud if it gets taken care of now with a CPAP.


    Yeah, I’m already seeing that. Sigh. I actually would have been willing to accept the machine they offered me if they’d had my mask in stock but, nope, they screwed up BOTH parts.


    I’ve found a couple of good message boards, and I bought a Kindle book by Dr. Stephen Yee called “Totally CPAP” that was helpful. One of the reasons I insisted on the machine I’m getting was advice on those boards.

    I suspect one of the reasons I’m getting such crappy service is that my co-pays are comically low. I’m not generating any cash for their company, so they couldn’t care less about me.

  47. 47
    ruemara says:

    @Mnemosyne: That is horrible! Sending bureaucratic gobbledygook removal vibes your way.

    I’m sorry Cokie died, but I will forever remember her who decided Hawaii was too exotic & foreign a vacation for the black president. She should have apologized. She didn’t and said stuff like that again. Said a lot about her. Doesn’t even cover her bothsidism problem.

  48. 48
    Dave Whitefield says:

    @Mnemosyne: I read all the other comments on OSA before writing this… My wife and I have been using CPAPs for about 3 years now. I had tried one about 12 years ago that made so much noise nobody could sleep near it, so I gave up. When my wife was diagnosed and got her new machine, I was astonished that it made practically NO noise at all. So I went back and got one just like hers (ResMed AirSense 10). We’ve both had really good results, much more energy, better sleep, etc. She struggled for over a month to get used to it, so if you struggle at first, don’t give up. You might even have to try several different masks before you find one you’re comfortable with. Now it’s like wearing a seatbelt in the car, we can’t sleep without it. Also, spend the extra money and get a SoClean machine to keep your equipment sanitized. They’re about $300 plus or minus, but worth every penny. Good luck to you, hope your machine comes soon.

  49. 49
    SFAW says:


    won in no small part because his crude vulgarity made people think he must be self-made.

    Nah… He won in no small part because his crude vulgarity made people think he was another hate filled racist pos just like them.

    Po-TAY-toe, po-TAH-toe

  50. 50
    catclub says:

    I just read an interesting article on the drone attacks on Saudi oil.
    They said that the attack side was the WEST and WEST-NORTHWEST side…. so this proves that Iran did it, not the Houthis.

    Except, Yemen is to the south of Those facilities, and Iran is to the EAST and North of those facilities.
    Iraq is to the north and West of them. And yet Iraq has quickly been dismissed as the possible launch site.

    I am still amazed that there were no AWACS planes in the area. Letting these missiles slip into SA means detection radars
    are bad and or pointed in the wrong direction. And that is the real lesson I draw from this.

  51. 51
    kindness says:

    I hate to say it but the coronation of sainthood that has come along wrt Cokie dying has me gagging a little. Yea she was a moderate Republican but she always talked up Republicans in interviews and always talked down Democrats.

    Cokie kinda sucked. I hate to agree with Trump. I feel dirty.

  52. 52
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @SFAW: How many of his asshole voters are self made? MILLIONAIRES! Not self made assholes.

  53. 53
    Ksmiami says:

    @Mnemosyne: don’t waste your pity on them – they must be crushed.

  54. 54


    Honest question, given the apparently very confused and incoherent state of Trump’s mind.

    Trump does not consider anyone with brown skin a person. I am not being glib. I am 50/50 on whether he thinks of it explicitly in those terms. Hasn’t he called them animals? But when he thinks of people, No one who isn’t white is included in that group, with the possible exception of a tiny coterie of the super rich and dictators that he knows personally and are evil enough and rich enough for him to like. He has said it himself, he doesn’t want immigration from ‘shithole’ countries like Africa, he wants it from countries like Norway.

    All of this compounded on the narcissist problem where no one is truly valuable except him anyway.

  55. 55


    Not self made assholes.

    I’d guess most of them are not self-made assholes, either; they were raised that way.

  56. 56
    Mnemosyne says:


    My poor husband has been threatening to send the recordings of my snoring to the HMO. If this goes on much longer, I may not stop him, especially since I have the medical director’s cell number now. 😈

    @Dave Whitefield:

    The new machines do seem to have come a long way and are much quieter now. The machine I’ve been waiting for is the ResMed “for her” model — we’ll see if it’s actually there tomorrow!

    I have the mask already, which is another part of the fuck-up. It’s the same one they gave me for the titration study and it was pretty comfortable, so hopefully it will work out.

  57. 57
    catclub says:


    How many of his asshole voters are self made? MILLIONAIRES! Not self made assholes.

    There is the observation that anyone is relatively wealthy and has no college degree is VERY likely to be Trump voter. MORE likely that no college degree and less income.

    What is relative? 1.5-3x the median income I suspect. Bill Gates is probably not in that group.

  58. 58

    @Mnemosyne: CPAP machine made a night and day difference for me, since I have pretty severe apnea. It’s likely I wouldn’t be here today without it. (I was starting to have drowsy daytime driving.)

    Dealing with the CPAP supply companies… well, put it this way, “don’t loath” is the bar I now use.

    In other news, I’m safely home and mostly over the jet lag, but unfortunately more ouchy than I expected to be. Probably a combination nerves that were temporarily deadened waking up — and the surgery was in a place with lots of nerves; as well as sitting at a desk most of the day (whereas in Thailand I could sit on the hotel bed with my hips rotated forward to take pressure off things). Thankfully, work has been slow this week, since I’m moving fairly slow myself.

  59. 59
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Roger Moore: I’m just covering the bases, but when one gets right down to it, they choose to remain assholes.

  60. 60
    Mnemosyne says:


    I’m a little surprised that he allowed his daughter to marry one of Them, but I suppose it allows him to remain the top man in her life since her husband isn’t a real man like Daddy is.

    Excuse me while I go throw up now.

  61. 61
    prostratedragon says:

    @Mnemosyne: Could well be. I’ve had every imaging study out there, and there seems to be nothing wrong with my heart per se, not even arterial blockage, but I’m managing heart failure and atrial fib. Though I also have other enduring lung issues, the doctors think the sleep apnea, which I had for many years, might be the key to the heart troubles.

    An odd symptom I had actually closed the last synapse for one of my doctors (bless him!), who then sent me off for a sleep test: going to the bathroom a lot while trying to sleep –like hourly after a while– but not unusually during the day, and regardless of water non/drinking. I later found some literature that lists that as a symptom. The condition completely cleared up within a couple of weeks of starting CPAP.

  62. 62
    catclub says:


    I hate to say it but the coronation of sainthood that has come along wrt Cokie dying has me gagging a little.

    everyone is flawed and everyone is influenced by their background. She did great things for women in journalism, by breaking a lot of new ground.

    OTOH, she had incredible advantages that most people do not have, having been raised wealthy in the south, in a family that had been wealthy for generations. Like you said, a moderate republican – mostlikely. Still much better straight reporter than Maureen Dowd.
    I wonder how much she fought with Susan Stamberg and Bob Edwards.

  63. 63
    Yarrow says:

    @Mnemosyne: Gosh, that’s terrible. Wishing you the best in getting the machine and then getting better sleep. What a nightmare in getting what you need. Two years is beyond ridiculous. Best healthcare system in the world. As if.

  64. 64
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Ugh, yes, I saw that you had to go for touch-up surgery, but I never seemed to be around when you were. Would a stand-up desk help at work? You should probably be taking lots of little movement breaks anyway to keep any pissed-off muscles from seizing up.

    I’ve been doing pelvic physical therapy for some post-menopause issues, so I now have my own dilator stories. Yay.

  65. 65
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Scoop from @WaPoSean: Bernie Sanders has parted ways with his Iowa political director, who was hired back in March. Staff shake-ups in NH, too.

    somehow I imagine this person having drinks with her/his coworkers and saying “I believe in Bernie, but if i get one more phone call from that asshole Sirota, I swear I’m caucusing for Warren

  66. 66
    prostratedragon says:

    @jl: I keep thinking someone should update Prince/Vanity 6 “Nasty Girl” with some topical lyrics. IIrc the original came out during what’s-his-name’s rampant days.

  67. 67
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @catclub: her mother was Bill Clinton’s Ambassador to the Vatican, and around that time she spoke at some kind of Dem meeting and said “we” and was a target for Rush Limbauch for weeks. Then along came the Clenis, and Cokie’s world was shattered by it. She never recovered.

  68. 68

    @Mnemosyne: I’ve got a sit/stand desk, however, the problem is that if I use it too long while standing, then it causes back problems from mousing with the elbow unsupported. Trade offs…

    FYI, for dilation, coconut oil is your new best friend — the stuff from Trader’s Joe works fine. Just don’t use too much of it because that can throw off the interior environment, Really only a bit the size of 1-2 peas should be sufficient. And my sympathies, it’s less than fun.

  69. 69
    Mnemosyne says:


    The ER nurse last week was a little puzzled by my EEG and said that I might be on the edge of a-fib, which is why I now have an appointment with a cardiologist. Sleep apnea DEFINITELY has an extremely bad effect on one’s heart, but a lot of doctors don’t think of sleep apnea for women. It’s not entirely clear if there really are more men who have it, or if it’s that women are severely underdiagnosed so their heart failure doesn’t get associated with OSA.

    And now I need to go do actual work. Thanks, everyone, for the well-wishes, and I’m hoping that my issues continue to be uncomplicated and easily treated with the standard treatments.

  70. 70
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Mnemosyne: Congrats (I hope I’m not jinxing you). Just wanted to say, you may have to experiment a bit once you get your CPAP.

    What Ohio Dad discovered he needed to do was have the tube come down from above his head. So we have a big ugly hook in the wall above his side of the bed to hold the tube up.

    It’s not going to win and decorating awards — I imagine when the time comes to sell this money pit, the selling agent is going to make a face when she sees it.

    We’ve had three long arguments with the health Insurance company over this past year. One I lost (have to take less preferred med) one I found a work-around (scholarship from genetic testing company) and one Ohio Dad is still battling (insulin pump). I sometimes wonder what percent of the GDP is time wasted on these things. Let alone how much our lives are being shortened.

  71. 71


    I have to drive out to frickin’ Canoga Park in the middle of the afternoon to pick it up

    Look at the bright side, it’s a lot cooler this week than last.

  72. 72
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Natasha Bertrand @ NatashaBertrand
    Since we first reported 12 days ago that a C-17 crew stayed overnight at Turnberry in March, it’s come out that since Trump took office the military has spent ~$200,000 there over roughly 40 separate stays, and $17 million at the nearby Prestwick airport.

    trump needs that airport to stay open to keep his hotel open

    “If both of these claims are accurate, it appears that U.S. taxpayer funds were used to purchase the equivalent of more than 650 rooms at the Trump Turnberry just since August 2017 — or the equivalent of one room every night for more than one-and-a-half years,” the congressmen wrote.

    I’d be curious to know the dates on those stays. I think he’s been using this money to keep the cash flow going through the winter months link.

  73. 73
    catclub says:

    I was amazed to learn that they let a lawyer/prosecutor question Corey Lewandowski – he did a great job of skewering Lewandowski.
    It seems that only happened after all the members ran out their time grandstanding. But a start.
    Finding such info in the newsmedia was not obvious.

  74. 74
    Immanentize says:

    People know where they came from by now. Israel should not be off the table as source. Timing suggests the Israeli government of the moment had much to gain by such a pre-election event. And no one can doubt their abilities. And why would Iran want to help Likud at that moment?

    But the investigators (Saudi Arabia, US) want want want it to be Iran. Already they are not saying launched by Iran, bug maybe has Iranian made components. I actually don’t think that Israel did it, I think as described, the Houthis did it with internal Saudi help. Occam calling!

    As you say, there certainly are those in Iraq who could have helped as well (cough Muqtada and allies cough). Also, from the ‘vector’ UAE dissenters or Qatar peeps who have many gripes re SA. Bottom line. Those who know cannot be trusted to tell us.

  75. 75
    The Moar You Know says:

    Cokie was a racist, full stop.

    And a Republican apologist, full stop. The “both sides” thing coming out of her was always hilarious, because you already knew which side was going to get the nod of approval.

    The only difference between her and Andrew Breitbart was where she worked. And for that matter, at least Breitbart put the work in to make his own business successful, and was honest about his own beliefs, sick as they were.

    So, dammit, I agree with Trump, hopefully for the first and last time. She was a nasty, underhanded, fake-ass lying piece of shit.

  76. 76

    @Mnemosyne: My HMO—Kaiser—was pretty accommodating when it came to fitting me up with a CPAP four years ago. It took some getting used to, affixing an apparatus to my face each bedtime that causes me to resemble a cross between a naval aviator and a baby elephant, but soon enough I found that I was sleeping through the night. I suspect that the sleep apnea was a proximate cause of the collapse of my former domestic arrangements thirty+ years ago. The later-model spousette appreciates the contrast between the soft purr of the CPAP and the raucous gobbling sounds that formerly accompanied my troubled slumbers. Good luck!

  77. 77
    catclub says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: it seems to me that if a the hotel has 50 rooms. One room a night doesn’t seem like very much. But then Trump was one of the few people who cashed their gift checks for 13 cents – or whatever trivial amount it was.

  78. 78
    Emma says:

    @Mnemosyne: My first battle with the CPAP people was with the doctors. I am claustrophobic, so the idea of having half my face covered did not go down well, but I told them I would try. Then, they set the pressure so high that sinus fluid (I also have severely damaged sinuses) would be forced down my throat and choke me. When I asked that it be lowered, I was told I would just have to deal with it because they knew better. So, CPAP out.

    Then almost seven years later, the whole thing started again. I finally agreed to go again. This time I found a human being instead of a cheap god imitation and he worked with me to get the right equipment and mitigate the sinus effect. Blessed be. As others have said, I can’t imagine sleeping without it.

  79. 79
    catclub says:


    the Houthis did it with internal Saudi help.

    I think you mean along the lines of forward spotters/ forward air traffic controllers? So people in SA, probably aligned with Shia and Houthis?

  80. 80
    cain says:

    @Mai naem mobile:
    Plenty of people go to Hawaii.. what really got my goat was Judith Miller complaining that Obama didn’t go to a real American vacation like Pebble Beach or some other shit place that coal miners went to back in the day. It was constructed to make older americans look back to whatever that is. Very east coast shit. Us folks in the west coast would never even think of going to such a lame place. Go fuck yourself, Judith.

  81. 81
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @catclub: true, according the BBC, Turnberry lost 3.4m pounds in 2017, so that’s a small patch on a big leak, but that’s also just the part of the grift we know about so far. The Scotsman reporter who was early in on this story is promising tales of Russian billionaires and other unsavory types. I wonder MBS has developed a taste for the Scottish coast in the last couple of years

    ETA: another factor is the ego boost, it just makes the little man feel a little bit bigger if people, Our Troops, are staying in his hotels

  82. 82
    debbie says:

    Apologies if this has already been mentioned (a quick scan says not), but the group Sandy Hook Promise released a PSA today about school violence. I am not an easy weeper, but the ending definitely had me in tears.

    I’ve started the countdown clock for the NRA to bellow “fake news!”

  83. 83
    Immanentize says:

    That is what the people who claimed they did it claim. They didn’t say what internal help they received, but they were clear the call was from inside the house. The subjects of the Kingdom are not unified in their love for MBS.

  84. 84
    Noncarborundum says:

    @Mnemosyne: I wish you the best. I’ve had my CPAP for over 10 years now and I don’t know how I’d live without it (narrator voice: “He wouldn’t”).

  85. 85
    Jeffro says:

    @Roger Moore:

    My money’s on Jared.

    That’s a really good bet.

  86. 86
    Jeffro says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Sounds like the start of a tailspin to me. I’m pretty sure I heard his engine cutting out after the third debate…

  87. 87
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Gotta admit I’m enjoying the crash ‘n bern more than is seemly.

  88. 88
    lamh36 says:


    ‪Trigger warning…but this video…POWERFUL!!‬

    When kids go back to school, they have plenty to worry about. They shouldn’t also have to wonder if they’re going to make it home. We need to buy back all of these assault weapons.

    Warning: It’s graphic, but this is an important video from @sandyhook.

    “Survive the school year with these must-have #BackToSchool essentials.
    This PSA contains graphic content related to school shootings & may be upsetting to some viewers. If you feel this subject matter may be difficult for you, you may choose not to watch.”

  89. 89


    An odd symptom I had actually closed the last synapse for one of my doctors (bless him!), who then sent me off for a sleep test: going to the bathroom a lot while trying to sleep

    Apparently, in “deep” sleep—something apnea patients do not see much of—the body secretes a hormone that suppresses urine production, which I regard as a pretty cunning piece of design,

  90. 90
    lollipopguild says:

    @The Moar You Know: You are 100% correct, but no one can say these things out loud where the really important people might hear them. She was a model beltway citizen who always forgave/defended repthugs while tsk tsking the democrats.

  91. 91
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    more than is seemly.

    No such thing in this context.

  92. 92
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @donnah: Trump has zero empathy. Contrast President Obama’s dignified statement about Ms. Roberts’ passing.

    Miss him.

  93. 93
    Betty Cracker says:

    @lamh36: Damn.

  94. 94
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: Those who know cannot be trusted to tell us. but they will and MSM will let them.

  95. 95
    JPL says:

    @lamh36: I read that the Today show covered it. Good for them.

  96. 96

    It’s not obvious that help from within Saudi Arabia is necessarily from opponents of the government. There is a long history of faking attacks to provide a pretext for war. It wouldn’t be out of the question for someone close to MBS doing this in an attempt to get the US to attack Iran.

  97. 97
    bystander says:

    @Mai naem mobile: Thanks for reminding me of how awful Cokie’s commentary always was. Sounds as if she were a nice person on a personal level. But she was just Andrea Mitchell’s WASP twin and mother to the Toddler.

  98. 98
    prostratedragon says:

    @Rand Careaga: Aha, that makes sense. Deep sleep returned , and so did the supression.

  99. 99
    ThresherK says:

    The wretched faux-cinnamon scented pinecones are now at yourlocal Stop & Shop.

    You have been warned.

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    President Obama Just Went After Trump in a Rare Direct Attack

  101. 101
    patrick II says:

    People who have a CPAP machine (and clean the accessories every night ) have fewer colds than typical. A little sille bonus.

  102. 102
    germy says:

    In the old days, we’d sew a tennis ball into the back of our pajama tops.

  103. 103
    germy says:

    @Baud: Care to share the key words, so I don’t have to click on a hearst link?

  104. 104
    Kay says:


    But she was just Andrea Mitchell’s WASP twin and mother to the Toddler.

    I thought her political commentary was awful too. I think they have to decide. They can be savvy, privileged well-connected insiders OR they can speak for the great unwashed masses. They have to choose.
    If they don’t we end up with weird, patronizing (and snobby) assumptions about “the public”, like believing the public think a vacation in Hawaii is exotic. Stay in the savvy, well-connected and privileged lane. Don’t venture into “pulse of the nation” .

  105. 105
    debbie says:


    I am unafraid:

    Earlier today we highlighted the need for Democrats to come to grips with the nature of the threat posed by Trumpism and the Republican power politics that have been moving in the direction of someone like him for decades. Right on cue, this is…well, this isn’t really it. But it is a former president criticizing the current president, which is something everybody says is a no-no, even if the current president regularly has meltdowns on the White House lawn and jumps on the Tweet Machine to announce he’s “locked and loaded” to attack Iran as soon as the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia gives him the O-K. In spite of all of it, the extant ex-presidents have mostly abided by The Rule.

    However, Barack Obama made the rare move of openly criticizing his successor on Wednesday. Obama was reportedly speaking at a tech conference organized by a data-services company called Splunk, which sounds like at least one other thing that presidents, former or otherwise, probably would not want to share a sentence with. Here’s another thing you’d think a Democratic ex-president might want to stay away from in a time of rising skepticism around Silicon Valley’s role in our society, particularly our systems of information, and growing calls to break up the sector’s monopoly powers: a tech conference!

    Anyway, here’s what Obama said about Donald Trump, American president, via Axios:

    Former President Barack Obama said at a tech conference Wednesday that one key to his decision-making was relying on staff and surrounding himself with a diversity of viewpoints, before adding:

    “The other thing that is helpful is not watching TV or reading social media.”

    A real stinger. Obama had more criticism for social media elsewhere, particularly the “filter bubbles” it exacerbates. Again, weird forum for all this. But he also had more about our current fearless leader.

    “I’m proud of the fact we didn’t have indictments. I’ve said that before but that is pretty rare in modern day.” Special counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation resulted in the indictments of 6 former Trump advisers.

    It certainly is good that Obama’s staffers weren’t served with federal indictments, though this feels like another area where Donald Trump has seriously lowered the bar. After all, his national security adviser was snapped up on charges that had nothing to do with the fact that he was secretly working for Turkey while serving on Trump’s campaign. That was a whole different ballgame! What a world.

  106. 106
    Baud says:


    Here’s a more measured story.

    Obama offers a thinly veiled critique of Trump’s penchant for social media and TV news

  107. 107
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: That’s so true it should be committed to needlepoint! :)

  108. 108
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @catclub: you’re assuming it wasn’t false flag, like the ship “attack” they screwed up.

  109. 109
    Ruckus says:

    They remain assholes because it’s both the way they were raised and because it works. The only time it doesn’t work is when they want something from a fellow asshole or someone who has cash.

  110. 110
    Citizen Alan says:

    Last night, I slept with a BIPAP machine for the first time after over a decade on CPAP. It was like sticking a hair dryer up my nose, but I do feel more rested than before. We’ll see if I can adapt to it.

  111. 111
    lgerard says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Natasha Bertrand @ NatashaBertrand
    Since we first reported 12 days ago that a C-17 crew stayed overnight at Turnberry in March, it’s come out that since Trump took office the military has spent ~$200,000 there over roughly 40 separate stays, and $17 million at the nearby Prestwick airport.

    Thanks to VP Mike Pounds and Mother(s) for bringing this to light!

  112. 112
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    They think we’re so conventional! It’s insulting, really. We go on vacations, Cokie. On airplanes. We’re not limited to Jellystone Park.

  113. 113
    Jeffro says:

    @lamh36: everything and anything but the obvious, America

  114. 114
    Ruckus says:

    Cheap god imitations. Best description ever.
    I’ve run across 3 of them in life, most useless educated humans with actual jobs that are supposed to be helping people.

  115. 115
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Ruckus: Well, there is actually a 3rd way it doesn’t work: When they run into an asshole like me who doesn’t even give them a chance to open their mouths before he tells them everything they believe in is absolute idiocy. It’s kinda funny. They never say a word, I’m not a big guy or particularly “tough” looking (at my advancing age), I just don’t give a fuck. I wear it every where I go and the only feedback I get is a quiet “I’m not supposed to say anything but, Thank you.” from cashiers, wait staff and every now and again a fellow Lib.

    Tho I did get hate honked once outside of Union MO. That made me very happy.

  116. 116
    Tony Jay says:

    Mini Vent

    Reason seventy-seven billion to the googleplex and nine why I sometimes fantasize about the day when the upper echelons of the BBC are marched out of their purpose built offices by lean, hungry people hefting wickedly tipped pikes, forced into a long, meandering line and made to watch as, one by one, they are sewn alive into the pendulous stomachs of overfed giant sloths and shat out, violently, over and over again, during the course of the longest weekend of their all too comfortable and professionally value-free lives.

    Fuckwit Flobalob went out on another not-actually-legal electioneering jaunt today, forcing his shambling bulk through the doors of a London hospital so that he could be photographed looking jolly with hollow-eyed cancer patients and basically pretend to give a shit about the NHS. As luck would have it he was confronted, for the second time in just a few days, by a member of the public who hadn’t received the memo about everyone in the country just being a prop in the Boyar of Brexit’s latest campaign event.

    A father whose sick daughter was being treated in one of the wards Johnson bumbled into saw the shithead and started giving him a mouthful. One registrar on duty, not enough doctors, not enough nurses, the NHS underfunded and crumbling and here he was with the cheek to turn it into a bloody press opportunity? Flobalob did what he always does and just lied to the father’s face, telling him there were no press with him, which must have come as a surprise to the BBC crew standing five foot away filming the entire thing.

    But that’s not the thing that really, really pissed me off. Johnson caught in yet another blatant lie is just Wednesday morning over here. No, the shittery came later on when the BBC’s senior political editor, Laura Kuenssberg, decided that the real story here required her going on Twitter to reveal that the father was a Labour ‘activist’ (actually a researcher, but the Tory gossip site she glommed the tasty piece of scandal from thought that wasn’t agitprop enough) and give out his fucking details. The guy has a sick kid in an underfunded and understaffed hospital and that Tory-fellating piece of shit fucking doxes him as punishment for making her chum ‘Boris’ look a twat? I repeat, the BBC’s senior political editor.

    Oh, and the BBC’s complaints page has crashed. Funny that. Roll on the Election. Which Kuensseberg will, of course, be in charge of covering.

    These fucking people.

  117. 117
    Shalimar says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I heard a reporter interviewed on MSNBC last week. Turnberry rates are normally higher than the military can pay, so all the stays were during the 10% of the year when they could get lower rates. All off-season and slow days.

  118. 118
    Kay says:

    Anand Giridharadas
    “Like families across America, the family has deep compassion for the victims of the opioid crisis.”
    So says the Raymond Sackler family in a new filing in the massive opioid lawsuit.

    This is why no one should settle with them. They’re unbearable.

  119. 119
    Elie says:

    Hi there, Ms M!
    I wish you a quick and successful response to your CPAP. My husband is right on the border of needing it. He’s been very depressed and I believe it would help his brain a lot but he is resisting as he does anything new. Sigh

  120. 120
    JPL says:

    @Baud: uhoh trump won’t be happy

  121. 121
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tony Jay: OMFG. Well, this made me laugh:

    …sewn alive into the pendulous stomachs of overfed giant sloths and shat out, violently, over and over again…

    I need to step up my revenge fantasies.

  122. 122
    Chris T. says:

    @Mnemosyne: Mine was 65. The day after using the machine to breathe at night was impressive: “So, THIS is what it’s like to actually SLEEP!”

  123. 123
    Aleta says:

    Thanks everyone for the CPAPs/ apnea comments. I copied all the info here for him to read. I’ve thought it’s a strong possibility for my partner, for some years now. But he has something like claustrophobia, and extreme skin sensitivity and other neuro-atypical things, so he didn’t want to even test. Also, the only place around here has a very bad reputation.

    But this year he’s had a slew of the symptoms and diagnoses that may arise from apnea. I’m hoping I can locate a place of good repute in the Boston area to test, so he won’t get jerked around up here. Any recommendations anywhere on the east coast or PA would be useful. Thanks again for the specific experiences and details.

  124. 124
    Chris T. says:

    @Capri: My Kaiser experience has been good. I paid about $20 for new stuff, I think.

  125. 125
    LivinginExile says:

    As far as choosing a career, I still haven’t decided what I want to be when I grow up. I turned 65 six months ago.

  126. 126
    Chris T. says:

    @Rand Careaga: Yes – also, according to the sleep docs, when you do wake up because of an apnea event, you don’t remember that it was because “can’t breathe” so you check for reasons you might have awakened and one is “gotta pee” and you latch onto that one. (I did a lot.)

  127. 127
    Tony Jay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    We have to laugh, eh? But holy fucking melted Jeebus on a slice of toast these people make me seethe.

    And it’s only a fantasy until I win big on the Lottery. Then it’s Crazy Fat Fucker Time.

  128. 128
    Jay says:

    On Monday night in Albuquerque, New Mexico, Trump held a campaign rally. Originally, local organizations and community members were planning to mobilize in opposition, but according to a local activist who spoke with IGD over email, a combination of death threats, visits from the Secret Service, and also the attendance of far-Right militia members as security scared enough people away to severely impact protest numbers.

  129. 129

    When I did the Kaiser “sleep lab”—we were all sent home with monitoring devices—I was the silver medalist, with just eight minutes of “deep sleep” on the measured night. Frankly, I think that I ought to have had pride of place, given that the first-place finisher had five years and seventy-five pounds on me, and was a smoker., but, you know, it was the medical equivalent of the Electoral College.

    I have it on good authority—personal testimony from multiple overnight companions—that I have snored as long ago as 1970. The CPAP has been a game changer. Would that the technology had been readily available in my youth!

  130. 130
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tony Jay:

    Then it’s Crazy Fat Fucker Time.

    I thought that’s what you already have with Johnson in charge.

  131. 131
    SWMBO says:

    @Mnemosyne: My husband was diagnosed with apnea (both kinds) when he was 38 years old. The doctor said some people have trouble adjusting to the machine and decide not to use it. If you don’t use it, you need to make your funeral arrangements because you aren’t going to make it to 40. His blood oxygen level got down to 29%. The pulmonologist said he had emphysema patients in ICU with higher blood oxygen levels. He was having up to 80 episodes an hour lasting from 10 seconds to 2 minutes 14 seconds. He’s still here at 66 (and yes he uses his autopap every night).
    In 2012 both my son and I were diagnosed with apnea and we have been on the machine ever since. It’s lovely waking up with no headache.
    When my son and I got our machines replaced (after 5 years), the insurance had changed and so did the DME. The new DME company double billed us for lots of stuff and didn’t itemize it so you could protest. Then they turned us over to a collection agency because we wouldn’t pay for equipment we didn’t get. My husband uses an online cpap company that is cheaper than the DME was. They charged us over $450 for equipment that we could get online for $425. Other little gouges like that. When I brought it up with the doctor, he said he didn’t have anything to do with their billing practices. When he told me that I needed to get a new mask after a year and wanted to know if he wanted me to order it through the DME, I think he was genuinely surprised when I gave him flash burns and told him I didn’t want to deal with those crooks. If he had taken my complaints seriously and helped me with them when they turned us over to a collection agency, I would have considered letting him do that. But since he “didn’t have anything to do with their billing practices” I could get my replacement parts online cheaper and without ruining my credit.
    You can get prices online to see if what they are charging you for your copay is less than what it costs online. Or more.

  132. 132
    JAFD says:

    @Mnemosyne: Sending good luck and ‘medical-bureaucracy-defogging-spells’ cross country to you.

    Got bill from my PCP’s office today:
    $6096.00 Total charges
    – $644.41 Insurance payments
    -$5304.56 Insurance adjustments
    $147.03 Amount due

    Have to head to office tomorrow, find out WTF, (dealing with their &%^%$^$ phone system will drive you wacky), see if actual PCP is back from maternity leave and make appointment.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: When Ike was in the White House and I was knee-high to grasshopper, a relative came home from vacation and gifted me with a Pan American World Airways Route Map, with pictures of Stratocruisers and Constellations and ‘Seven Seas’ and red lines going from Gander to Prestwick and on to ‘faraway places with strange-sounding names’.

    So began my geographybuffhood, even to the Cardiac ICU, young lady tech, whose parents came to NJ from Pakistan, came to give me ultrasound scan, was suprised I’d even heard of the Punjab. Gave me recommendation for best undiscovered South Asian restaurant on Oak Tree Road in Union…

  133. 133
    Chris T. says:


    $6096.00 Total charges
    – $644.41 Insurance payments
    -$5304.56 Insurance adjustments
    $147.03 Amount due

    Or in other words, the actual cost of all this was $791.44 (insurance payments plus amount due). The markup on that was to $6096, a factor of 7.7. Or in yet other words, the actual cost was about 13% of what they had intended to bill you, before your insurance company said “and no ripping us off”.

    If you weren’t insured, they’d have tried to rip you off for the full $6096.

    There’s something very wrong with this picture system…

  134. 134
    SWMBO says:

    @Tony Jay: Come sit next to me.

  135. 135
    Another Scott says:

    @Tony Jay: Laura Kuenssberg seems to be with Boris far, far too often. It’s weird. I’m pretty sure it was she who was sitting at a bar with him months ago (before he was PM), the camera maybe 10 feet behind them, acting like it was a normal conversation when it was clearly a staged interview.

    It’s weird, and it’s not right.

    The BBC should not be a prop for Boris to get free TV time.


  136. 136
    smintheus says:

    Cokie Roberts was an asshole too, and as a journalist she was dishonest, unethical, lazy, lacking in knowledge or insight, and without any perceptible principles apart from her desire to cash in on her pundit notoriety. Her entire career was that of the untalented scion of a well connected family. She was emblematic of most of what is objectionable about the current US media.

  137. 137
    J R in WV says:


    She was sorta like Sarah Possum Queen, also too like Megan “My Dad Was A POW, Did You Know That?” McCain. Never liked her much. Too Right Wingnut.

  138. 138
    Tehanu says:

    @Mnemosyne: Gosh, I’m sorry to hear this. I got my CPAP through Kaiser and it’s not the latest shiny model with all the bells and whistles, but it works just fine, and it only took me 2 visits and then another week to get it. I hope yours works as well for you. If you’ve never had one, it may take a week or so to get used to. When I started on mine, I found it obtrusively annoying at first — to the point where one night I said, the hell with it, I’ll just sleep without it. And that was awful! — so ever since then, I use it faithfully every night. Good luck with it.

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