Onward Christian Soldiers

Weird how Trump complains about the US getting “ripped off” by NATO and says our military can’t be “the world’s policeman” when confronted with the costs associated with Republican predecessors’ foreign misadventures, but when violence affects Saudi oil production, he’s all “locked and loaded” and “how high, Mr. Bonesaw?”

Must be the Orb. 🙄

169 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    I bet the culprit was Hillary.

  2. 2

    I do a fair bit of photo analysis, and when I saw the administration’s claims, I was wondering how they could tell where the strikes originated. Here’s someone else who is probably acquainted with photo analysis.

  3. 3
    Yarrow says:

    I wonder if he’d bomb Israel because bonesaw wanted him to.

  4. 4
    Yarrow says:

    Owning the libs really pays:

    NEW from me: Inside the machinery of the Trump campaign's defiance-merchandise machine. Siphoning rage from Twitter pays: Over 55,000 packs of those own-the-libs straws have netted over $823,000. The #Sharpiegate markers have made the campaign $50,000. https://t.co/t6S0qOhODj— Katie Rogers (@katierogers) September 13, 2019

    “He can get bad press, people can make fun of him, but the Sharpie campaign shows very flat out that it doesn’t matter. He’s going to make money off of it.”— Katie Rogers (@katierogers) September 13, 2019

  5. 5
    chris says:

    It won’t be the first time the USA has attacked the wrong country.

    Crude oil and gasoline futures are up 11% right now. Buckle up.

  6. 6
    PeakVT says:

    It was an inside job by Bonesaw himself.

    If you can’t prove my wild speculation is wrong then it must be true!

  7. 7
    namekarB says:

    Okay okay. Perhaps I don’t get it and excuse me if I am flat wrong. Wouldn’t a big decrease in Mideast Oil supplies be GREAT NEWS for US oil producers?

  8. 8
    Yarrow says:

    @namekarB: It’s great news for Putin. That’s what counts.

  9. 9
    Amir Khalid says:

    Trump would tell Bibi about such a Saudi demand, and then go with the hgher bidder as to whether to proceed with an attack.

  10. 10
    Amir Khalid says:

    I dunno. Is Ewing Oil even still in business?

  11. 11
    debbie says:

    Pompeo sees himself as Dick Cheney. And because of that, it is inevitable there will be a U.S. attack.

  12. 12
    Yarrow says:

    @Amir Khalid: Apparently it is and it serves West Virginia.

    Today Ewing Oil Company is one of the largest petroleum distributors in the Mid-Atlantic area. Serving Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Delaware, Ewing supplies over 150 service stations. We also sell petroleum products to larger commercial customers.


  13. 13
    PeakVT says:

    @Yarrow: It’s possibly even good for Saudi, depending on what was hit. Assorted burning tanks are not key production hubs filled with long-lead custom-manufactured equipment.

  14. 14
    Amir Khalid says:

    Dang. There goes my clever 1980s pop-culture reference.

  15. 15
    Butter emails!!! says:

    It doesn’t seem like it’s the libs being owned here.

  16. 16
    AxelFoley says:


    Ewing Oil? Is that for real? 😂😂😂

  17. 17
    Spanky says:

    I’ll bet John Bolton has a big sad today. Left out in the cold.

  18. 18
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    how high, Mr. Bonesaw?


    ET: MBS. It took me a minute.

  19. 19
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:
    People are trying to tie this in by not supplying the details below. Headlights!!!
    Unidentified drone flies over Kuwaiti presidential palace (Sep 15, 2019)

    The drone hovered over the presidential palace for a period, ignited its headlights for one minute and then entered Kuwait City airspace, al-Rai newspaper reported.

    I’m assuming it’s true, because “hovering over the presidential palace, with headlights on” is amusing enough that eyewitnesses would contradict if false.

  20. 20
    JPL says:

    @namekarB: It seems that would be right, but oil is sold on the world market. For example oil drilled in Alaska could go to Japan. So a five to ten percent drop could affect us all. That’s over simplifying but it’s how it works

  21. 21
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Yarrow: That’s basically the Republican party in a nutshell. Getting ripped off to make money for incompetent grifters just so they try to make liberals annoyed.

  22. 22
    Bill Arnold says:


    Wouldn’t a big decrease in Mideast Oil supplies be GREAT NEWS for US oil producers?

    Zerohedge, so truth value is not obvious, but there are links and memes:
    Oil To Hit $100? Pompeo Blames Iran For “Unprecedented” Drone Attack That Crippled Largest Saudi Oil Processing Facility (Tyler Durden, 09/15/2019)

  23. 23
    MobiusKlein says:

    Did I miss the announcement of a mutual defense pact between the USA and Saudi Arabia?

    I’m a bit surprised (not surprised) that it’s that quick to jump into that quagmire again.

  24. 24
    JPL says:

    @Bill Arnold: trump is locked and loaded so no worries.

  25. 25

    @Bill Arnold:

    Zerohedge, so truth value is not obvious

    Zerohedge is where I learned to ignore people who love Fight Club! Fun fact.

  26. 26

    @Bill Arnold: I take all reports with a grain of salt. Photos I pay attention to. Also there are a number of folks doing very sophisticated analysis. It’s not particularly sophisticated to say, well, Iran is over that-a-way, but the missiles could have zigged and zagged, and they could have come from any direction by the time they traversed tens or hundreds of kilometers.

    So I’m waiting for the folks with the software tools, but I think we know what we need to know now.
    – Someone hit Saudi Arabia
    – Trump is enraged
    – Looks like Bonesaw is in control

  27. 27

    Trump tweeted

    The Fake News is saying that I am willing to meet with Iran, “No Conditions.” That is an incorrect statement (as usual!).

    My Twitter colleagues are collecting tweets and quotes that say, from the man himself, that he is willing to meet with Iran. There are quite a few.

  28. 28
    chris says:

    Oh good, more winning.

    Trump will appear with Indian PM Narendra Modi at next Sunday’s “Howdy, Modi” event at NRG Stadium in Houston, which is expected to be attended by tens of thousands, the White House has announced.— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) 15 September 2019

  29. 29
    Another Scott says:

    @namekarB: Donnie’s worried about high gas prices.


  30. 30
    clay says:

    @Spanky: I know! He just had to hang in for one more week and he would’ve gotten his Iran War!

  31. 31
    Baud says:


    It’s be interesting to see how Pakistan responds.

  32. 32
    JPL says:

    @Another Scott: So he could decide to nationalize our refineries and the republicans would be fine with it, right?

  33. 33
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Also there are a number of folks doing very sophisticated analysis.

    This part is very encouraging. They also seem to understand the urgency.

    Trump is enraged

    Are we sure that D.J. Trump is enraged?
    “Verification” (per the rDT tweet) appears to be a main risk.

  34. 34
    Baud says:


    Mitt might furrow his brow. But Trump owns deplorables and deplorables own Republicans.

  35. 35

    @Baud: That’s doubly disgusting. Eww^2

  36. 36
    Baud says:


    My comment or the event?

  37. 37
    Baud says:


    How Kamala Harris Can Make a Comeback

    NYT > Top Stories / by David Leonhardt / 19min

    The Democratic field is still flawed.

    Why do liberals keep these guys in business?

  38. 38
    JPL says:

    @Baud: My subscription to the NYTimes is four dollars a month until March of next year, and I’m thinking of canceling .

  39. 39
    moonbat says:

    @MisterForkbeard: Doesn’t annoy this liberal. I hope they spend all their money on stupid Sharpie pens and run out of gas on the way the the polls in November.

  40. 40
    Mary G says:

    RIP Ric Ocasek.

  41. 41
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: The Houthi rebels have already claimed responsibility.

    Full disclosure: I know Shibley Telhami and served as the senior civilian advisor (cultural advisor) to the 2nd Brigade Combat Team/1st Armored Division when LTG Hertling was the 1st Armored Division commanding general.

  42. 42

    Good news

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @Mary G:

    You kept it going ’till the sun fell down
    You kept it going

  44. 44

    @Adam L Silverman: Claiming responsibility is not the same as having done it, but I think the Houthis are the most plausible culprits.

  45. 45

    @Baud: The event with the two Orange Ogres.

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @namekarB: No, that is not how the global petroleum markets work. While the US gets very little of its oil these days from Saudi, the removal of a significant amount of Saudi refining capacity for an extended period of time would spike the price of oil. US oil producers cannot make up the difference, because what the US is producing is the wrong kind of oil.

  47. 47

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The Houthi rebels have already claimed responsibility.

    Is there reason to doubt them?

  48. 48
    trollhattan says:

    @Mary G:
    Aww. I liked The Cars. R.I.P. Rick O.

  49. 49

    Must be the Orb. 🙄

    That fucking orb has been nothing but trouble since go.

    @Mary G: I like the night life, baby
    Transition music on SNF on NBC. ATL up by 3 in the first.

  50. 50
    jl says:

    @Baud: You didn’t provide a link, and I would thank you, except for some reason I couldn’t resist going to NYT to read it. The piece was a long string of drivel, looked like it was typed up on short notice, maybe to fill some quota. I noticed it relied on a ‘savvy’ CW political analyst, included a link to an old NYT piece that was puzzling and unexplained, and I could see little rationale except to puff his own publication and pull a comparison of Harris to Obama out of hat. The piece also managed to shoehorn important substantive policy issues into horse race campaign coverage, and ended with a an unsupported claim that seems to contradict a collection of anecdotes directly above.

    I found it intriguing and wish to subscribe to his newsletter.

    Why did I go read that garbage? I usually try to ration the free NYT pieces for Krugman.

  51. 51
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I think they are as well.

  52. 52
    Elizabelle says:

    @trollhattan: Ahhh. I liked Ric Ocasek too. Seemed like a genuine dude. Great band.

  53. 53
    jonas says:

    @namekarB: Oil is a global commodity. When prices spike, that’s definitely good for oil producers no matter where they are. US oil companies are certainly not unhappy about this turn of events when it comes to their bottom line. Of course, there’s a limit — if attacks on Saudi production *really* send prices skyrocketing over the long term, then the discussion turns to conservation and alternative energy sources and they don’t want that, either. All things in moderation, as the saying goes.

  54. 54
    Keith P. says:

    @Mary G: Wow, that really sucks. I’m starting to see more and more of the musicians I’ve listened to die. A station in my area plays The Cars all the time (I love “Drive”, even though Ocasek doesn’t sing it…. I had to double-check)

  55. 55
    Baud says:

    That’s why I don’t look to the NYT.

  56. 56
    Cameron says:

    I take it that everybody here knows that the massacre of civilians in Yemen started before Trump was elected? Y’all do know that? Right?

  57. 57
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I don’t think so. The problem is going to be who is the President going to listen to. At this point, over 24 hours on, I can guarantee that the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency (NGA) has provided appropriate imagery to the CIA, which has prepared an assessment using it, as well as information sourced from other US intel agencies and our Five Eyes partners, and the President has, at least, gotten the top line conclusions. The problem is that regardless of what the US Intel tells him, will he take whatever the Saudis and the Israeli feed him? They both want the US to fight Iran for them. They will feed the President “intel” that makes it look like Iran was responsible regardless of who actually did it. Basically they have their conclusion – this was Iran’s doing – and they’ll work back from their. It may be as elaborate as claiming the Iranians flew these out of Iran, over Iraq, and into Saudi or it may be as simple as “yes, the Houthis did it, but they’re Iranian proxies, and therefore the IRGC or the Quds Force was helping them”.

  58. 58
    Baud says:


    Look = link

  59. 59
    jl says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: A regional expert I heard on a local news interview this morning said it was most likely a Houthi attack. Against that I heard a GOPer Congresscritter raving about Iran and we have to ‘do something’. So, for now, I trust the reginoal expert, though I forgot the name. We’ll see what develops.

    Among the political bighsots, think Adam Schiff had the most reasonable take, until we get more info from reliable sources.

    Schiff: Houthi strike on Saudi facilities required ‘Iranian assistance’

    My only comment is that, I think, there have been a number of Houthi missile attacks over last several years that people have said could not be done without Iranian assistance. So, I guess the Iranians gave them the technology and showed them how to use it two years ago? Pompeo and GOP war mongering seem like just push back on Trump latest whim to talk with the Iranians.

  60. 60

    It’s so easy to blow up your problems
    It’s so easy to play up your breakdown
    It’s so easy to fly through the window
    It’s so easy to fool with the sound

    It’s all mixed up.

  61. 61
    jl says:

    @Baud: I didn’t blame you. Probably I should have. Baud 2020! campaign needs an egregious gaffe to get some free media. I apologize.

    Edit: I changed ‘Baud2020?’ typo to ‘Baud2020!’ But probably shouldn’t have. Freudian typo?

  62. 62

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The problem is that regardless of what the US Intel tells him, will he take whatever the Saudis and the Israeli feed him?

    That’s the bottom line, all right!

  63. 63
    Immanentize says:

    I liked The Cars. I also liked Paulina Poriskova.

  64. 64
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Unfortunately.

  65. 65
    Immanentize says:


    pull a comparison of Harris to Obama out of hat.

    You mean being black is not enough?

  66. 66
    TS (the original) says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Republicans always have the answer before the analysis & regardless of the cause they know who is the bad guy. Another 20 year war seems like a great idea. It will no doubt pan out to a 100 year war because why should the English and the French claim to have the longest war in history. Anything they can do, trump can do better.

  67. 67
    lamh36 says:

    “”You just keep that baby of yours in your heart, and you keep fighting, and you require people to see you and speak her name, you hear me?”


    You can tell a lot about a person by the way they hug.

    Couple of the Dem candidate looks like they’d be good huggers!

    Chump…on the other hand 🤢🤢

    Moments like this underscore how important it is for #KamalaHarris, a Black woman to be running. Ms. Geneva Reed-Veal is a warrior for her daughter Sandra Bland. This warm, empathetic, encouraging embrace is what HOPE looks like and why we must press on.


  68. 68
    Immanentize says:

    Not tracking. Yes I know. Meaning? By whom? Before or after Saudi intervention? Further, WTF?

  69. 69
    Duane says:

    @MisterForkbeard: The plastic straws probably come wrapped in more plastic inside two cardboard boxes. Personal responsibility for you not us. Owning the libs is a sickness.

  70. 70
    Scuffletuffle says:

    I am a lib, but I don’t give a single fuck that Republican bozos are buying straws and sharpies. Am I doing it wrong?

  71. 71
    lamh36 says:

    Kamala Harris has been quietly racking up early state endorsements from local and state pols. Something is happening on the ground and under the radar that the polls aren’t reflecting

    More KAMALA HARRIS endorsements! Today they hail from Connecticut!

    New Haven Mayor Toni Harp and state Reps. Quinton Phipps and Anne Hughes endorse Kamala for president. Harris has already been endorsed by U.S. Rep. Jahana Hayes. #ForThePeople #Kamala2020

  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cameron: What’s a Yemen?

  73. 73
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Immanentize: This appears to be an attempt at “It’s Obama’s fault. He didn’t do anything to stop what the Saudis were doing when they stupidly decided to attack the Houthis because they incorrectly believed that at the time they were allied with the Iranians because the Houthis are Fiver Shi’a and the Iranians are Twelver Shi’a”.

  74. 74
    Immanentize says:

    Drones. Drone attacks. They are cheap and easy to deploy with great accuracy. It could have been Saudi women who want to drive. They do not require great skill or know how. They are the future of asymmetrical attacks.

  75. 75
    jl says:

    @Immanentize: Hey, I don’t judge. I immediately thought it was just to puff his own publication. Then I thought his line of thought was that he wanted to argue Harris had potential to win, and Obama was behind at this time in cycle in 20018, and Harris was behind now, so obviously there is an argument in there someplace. And then I thought, OK, they are both not white.

    But at this point, the two of us have probably put more thought into it than Leonhardt did, so pointless to spend any more time.
    Who wastes their time reading this dreck? (Besides Baud 2020! and his die hard supporters).

    And editor probably put in ‘Democratic field still flawed’ even though it makes no sense given the content of the piece, because, heck, should never pass an opportunity to diss Democrats. Our liberal corporate media!

    Edit: BTW, for a long time Harris was my second choice behind Warren, but not sure now. Anyway, my comment was not meant to diss Harris. I hope she overcomes here ‘slump’ or whatever it is.

  76. 76
    Immanentize says:

    @Adam L Silverman: do nimrods really sit around monitoring BJ just to make such ill arguments?

    The Saudis are the worst interventionist military ever. And we support and back them up? Day of reckoning is gonna come one way or another.

  77. 77
    Mary G says:

    @Cameron: It started in 2015 and is one of biggest blots on Obama’s report card. I protested it then and protest it now. It is genocide.

  78. 78
    Immanentize says:

    @Mary G:
    Genocide by whom and against whom?

  79. 79
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Immanentize: Apparently at least one of them does.

  80. 80
    Adam L Silverman says:

    I’ll just leave this here:

  81. 81
    Adam L Silverman says:

    What is it with this guy and free oil?

  82. 82
    Professor Bigfoot says:

    @Amir Khalid: Trump is Milo MInderbinder?

    (Come to think of it…)

  83. 83
    Mary G says:

    Sen. Chris Murphy just started a Twitter thread on KSA and Yemen. He’s been on this since at least 2016:

    2/ The conflict btwn Saudi Arabia and Yemen roughly dates from the 1932 founding of Saudi Arabia, when the new kingdom took territory from Yemen in a war set off by a border dispute. The Saudis has attempted to influence Yemeni affairs every since.— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) September 16, 2019

  84. 84
    Steve in the ATL says:

    1. Who has the analysis of what effect this attack will have on premium gasoline prices at Atlanta-area Costco and Quik Trip gas stations?

    2. Loved the Cars pre-MTV. Once MTV came out, their edgy alternative sound became more mainstream pop drivel (see also: Top, ZZ and Clapton, Eric).

    3. Ric Ocasek was married to Paulina Porizkova. Nice work, Ric!

    4. If you want to get deep in your Ocasek tribute, check out his earlier band Driftwood. Not so good, is it?

  85. 85
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Mary G:

    It started in 2015 and is one of biggest blots on Obama’s report card. I protested it then and protest it now. It is genocide.

    Why did the Obama administration support the Saudis in this?

    Was it really related to making the Saudis happier after the JCPOA with Iran? If so, what leverage did the Saudi’s have/use?
    Yemen: The Graveyard of the Obama Doctrine – The human costs of facilitating Saudi Arabia’s proxy war (Samuel Oakford, Peter Salisbury, Sep 23, 2016)

    Supporters of the new arms package portrayed it as necessary support after the Obama administration’s landmark nuclear deal with Iran. To them, Yemen is a proxy war, and the United States must side with the Gulf—never mind the absence of direct evidence of wide-scale Iranian meddling in the Houthi rebellion.

  86. 86
    Zinsky says:

    Trumpo evidently thinks he was elected President of Israel and owes the unelected Wahabbist Saudis something after they were complicit in the 9-11 attacks. The asshole is also beholden to other Middle East tyrants and the round headed weenie Putin. Pathetic. Trump is a gutless coward, pathological liar, conman and sexual deviant. He really is the lowest scumbag to ever sit in the Oval Office. He needs to be impeached and imprisoned for the rest of his worthless life.

  87. 87
    Elizabelle says:

    @lamh36: I’m glad to see that. Kamala and Elizabeth are my girls. Both marvelous and qualified.

    Not surprising the conventional wisdom cannot get a clue there.

  88. 88
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: Had to do with the Awlawkis being from and in Yemen and Anwar al Awlawki’s connection to al Qaeda.

  89. 89
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @namekarB: O

    kay okay. Perhaps I don’t get it and excuse me if I am flat wrong. Wouldn’t a big decrease in Mideast Oil supplies be GREAT NEWS for US oil producers?

    Russian Federation main export is oil.

  90. 90
    Jay says:

    The Ansruallah Movement took credit for the attacks and said they managed the precise attacks with the help of “friends” in the Kingdom.

    Reports have come out, but barely hit the news that:

    – the Yemeni Sunni tribes who were hired by the Sawdi’s to defend in Narjian Province are quitting, as they are routinely slaughtered by the Ansruallah Movements fighters, go unsupported bt the Sawdi Military, and are often unpaid,

    – the Southern Sucession fighters are in a 3 way war, against al Quida and the UAE for the Port of Aden and are no longer tighting against the Ansruallah Movement.

    – the Sawdi/UAE “brilliant strategy” of hiring Sudanese and Columbian merce to do the fighting for them, isn’t working out on the ground.

    – having the USAF do the target assesment for airstrikes is working about as well as the Great Scud Hunt. Markets, hospitals, schools, residential areas are regularly blown up with hundreds of civillians killed, while the Ansruallah Movement goes unmollested.

    – the Ansruallah Movement even got a pinpoint strike with one of the kitbuilt Scud “Specials” on a graduating parade of new graduates of a Military Academy in awden.

  91. 91
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Adam L Silverman: So the Saudis bought the condos from Trump in other words?

  92. 92
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Mary G: Just getting over Eddie Money’s too recent passing.

  93. 93
    Mary G says:

    @Immanentize: Saudis vs. poorest Yemenis. They bomb schools, buses full of civilians, blockaded the ports so 8 million people are on the verge of starvation, destroy water infrastructure so diseases like cholera are epidemic.

    Daniel Larison has been writing about this and trying to get us out of it since it started, but the US stays in because they conflate the rebels with Iran, which they weren’t at first,

    When the U.S.-backed Saudi coalition causes mass starvation and the world’s largest humanitarian crisis in Yemen, Pompeo blames Iran. He finds Iran guilty for things it hasn’t done, and he condemns them for things that Iran’s rivals actually do. He would probably blame Iran for cancer and the bubonic plague if he thought anyone would believe him, but of course no one believe him about anything. Pompeo has shredded his credibility and that of the United States with his constant, shameless lying about Iran, and the president is also a notorious liar, so we have no reason to trust them when they level serious accusations like this against another governm

    It’s because the Yemeni elected a Shia president, and MBS can’t abide that on the Arabian peninsula. Also, he wanted to play with his jets and other toys. People there post pictures of ruined buildings and hold up fragments of shrapnel with names of American companies on them. Will lead to more terrorists for generations.

    Adam will tell you there’s lot more to it, which there is. Al-Qaeda holds a chunk of the country, there are inter-tribal beefs, and the UAE has been accused of sending American mercenaries in to assassinate leaders.

  94. 94
    Immanentize says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Really. Trying to interject facts into this discussion is like trying to understand Trump’s long-term strategies.

  95. 95
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: The Saudis own an entire floor of Trump World Tower, which is across the street from the UN. It includes both the ambassador’s residence and the Saudi mission to the UN. They’ve owned it for well over a decade.

  96. 96
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Immanentize: It’s a dirty job.

  97. 97
    Tehanu says:

    how high, Mr. Bonesaw?

    Isn’t that Prince Bonesaw?

  98. 98
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Had to do with the Awlawkis being from and in Yemen and Anwar al Awlawki’s connection to al Qaeda.

    Seriously? That’s sick; not fully parsing how that justifies a war.
    Is this related to DJT’s apparent interest in nine kinship exterminations re members of AQ-related families. (Rule of DJT projection, eh? :-)

  99. 99
    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.] says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I know MBS (Mohammad Bin Salman) realizes that Trump is a complete, and compromised by him, idiot, but I hope he’s getting a bit of heartburn learning that Trump is an ally of no-one but Trump.

    Personally, I’m also pretty confident that the Houthi did it too. They have been getting more successful over the last few years with irregular attacks in Saudi Arabia, and it everything went right for an attack that Aramaco was not expecting.

  100. 100
    Mary G says:

    More Murphy tweets:

    5/ In the 2000s, Saudi backed Yemeni governments carried out 6 separate wars against the now rebelling Houthis. Bush opposed most of these wars, believing the anti-Houthi campaigns to be doing more harm than good, especially as the Houthis began to reach out to Iran for help.— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) September 16, 2019

    6/ Over the course of these wars, the Houthi military capabilities grew, and by 2010 they were the most battle tested army in Yemen. In 2015 they successfully marched on the Yemeni capital, Sanaa, and Saudi Arabia and UAE initiated a full fledged war against the Houthis.— Chris Murphy (@ChrisMurphyCT) September 16, 2019

  101. 101
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: We wound up over preoccupied with Yemen, and not as a humanitarian problem resulting from the civil war and then the Saudi invasion, that because of the failing nature of the Yemeni state that al Qaeda, specifically its Yemeni affiliate and their affiliation with the Awlawkis. There was legitimate concern that Yemen could be used as a training location and a bed down in transit point for extremists going into and out of sub-Saharan Africa. That metastasized into an over preoccupation, which led to several poor policy decisions pertaining to the Arabian peninsula and Yemen.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]: I do not know.

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: What DJT preoccupation with familial terminations? I’ve never seen any reference to anything like that before.

  104. 104
    B.B.A. says:

    We should not respond at all. Less oil capacity = higher oil prices = less oil consumption, which is a good thing. I commend the Houthis, or whoever carried out this attack. More like this, please.

    /I can’t even tell when I’m being sarcastic anymore

  105. 105
    catclub says:


    Did I miss the announcement of a mutual defense pact between the USA and Saudi Arabia?

    interesting that you mention that, because on the radio this morning they were discussing the possibility of the first EVAR US Israeli defense pact.
    I always point this out, and that we do actually have a defense pact with Turkey, that is conveniently forgotten on almost all occasions.

    They also said that Israel might not want it because they would have to consult with the US (ha!) before their usual surprise airstrikes.

  106. 106
    Jay says:

    People often forget that most of the Sawdi Oil and Infrastructure is on the ground where the Shia Minority live. If people get sick and die, the Sawdi’s prefer they are Shia. There have been reports of a low grade insurgency/protest movement amongst the Shia that is regularly crushed. Non-regime reporters are barred from Shia Communities by the Regime.

  107. 107
    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.] says:

    @Adam L Silverman: No worries, It’s just my personal opinion. I’ve been a long term follower or Juan Coles blog for several years, to my utter surprise I seem to talk intelligently about middle-eastern affairs at a casual level without making a complete ass of myself.

  108. 108
    Jay says:


    There have always been rumours of a secret “Defense Agreement” between the US and the Sawdi Royals dating back to the Roosevelt Administration.

  109. 109
    Mike in NC says:

    Read today that members of Congress — especially Republicans — are upset that people are buying electric cars and therefore not paying sales tax on gasoline. They’ll look for a way to stick it to those dirty hippies buying Teslas.

  110. 110
    Mary G says:

    I found a photo of Rick Ocasek and his sons and they look like hipster versions of Snape, Ron, and Harry. pic.twitter.com/NL8lSVuWUd— Geraldine (@everywhereist) June 4, 2017

  111. 111
    Brachiator says:

    I thought that dumping Bolton was supposed to reduce the chances of reflexive war mongering.

  112. 112
    catclub says:

    @Jay: The first thing that popped into my head reading that was the line from Dr Strangelove “Why would you keep it secret?” “The premier likes surprises.”

  113. 113
    Jay says:

    SPONSORED: Juul introduces My Little Pony flavoured vapes, compliant with all local health laws.— DPRK News Service (@DPRK_News) September 15, 2019

  114. 114
    catclub says:

    @Jay: Horseflesh flavored! and colors!

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Hkedi [Kang T. Q.]: Juan’s good people. I did some guest posts for him a while back.

  116. 116
    Hkedi [Kang T. Q.] says:

    @Brachiator: Cruise missiles might be in the air right now if Bolton was around. It’s a good time to count your blessings.

  117. 117
    Ken says:

    For some reason I’m imagining a US strike on Iran, after which the Iranians say, “No, we didn’t carry out that strike on the refinery, if we had it would have looked more like this,” followed by oil at $200 a barrel.

  118. 118
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    What DJT preoccupation with familial terminations? I’ve never seen any reference to anything like that before.

    A joke in grimdark taste. Stuff like this:

    Trump confirms US has killed Osama bin Laden’s son Hamza

    Donald Trump confirmed on Saturday that the US has killed Hamza bin Laden, a son of the former al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden.
    Bin Laden’s death was reported in July but not confirmed by the US government. The New York Times reported then he was killed some time in the last two years.

    Between 10[8] and 30 civilians,[9] including the eight-year-old American daughter of the deceased Al Qaeda preacher Anwar al-Awlaki, were also killed in the raid along with up to 14 enemy combatants.

    ‘Take Out Their Families’: Trump, Terrorists and Overly Broad Rules of Engagement (Gabor Rona Monday, April 23, 2018)

  119. 119
    Jay says:


    The US would keep it secret because it doesn’t reflect well on the US “role” as “honest broker”, ( I kill myself sometimes) in the ME,

    The House of Sawed would keep it secret because it doesn’t reflect well on their claims of being the only “real” Islam.

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Bill Arnold: I think that’s less a preoccupation and more of a “That Obama guy announced he killed bin Laden, well I killed bin Laden too! And an Awlawki and some other people. MAGA!”

  121. 121
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Rocking along with those above.

    Cars came along as I hit middle school.

  122. 122
    Jay says:

    Trump will appear with Indian PM Narendra Modi at next Sunday’s “Howdy, Modi” event at NRG Stadium in Houston, which is expected to be attended by tens of thousands, the White House has announced.— Daniel Dale (@ddale8) September 15, 2019

  123. 123
    mad citizen says:

    @Mike in NC: As well they should–EVs drive on the roads the same as gasoline-powered cars. I’m guessing the fees will eventually be fairly even across states, but for now, there seems to be quite a bit of variation: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/some-states-are-charging-extra-drivers-who-buy-electric-vehicles-n1054101

  124. 124
    Ken says:

    @Mike in NC:

    people are buying electric cars and therefore not paying sales tax on gasoline

    It’s a legitimate concern, since road infrastructure is largely funded by gasoline taxes. However now that the Republicans are involved, there’s no possibility of a sane and sensible solution. We’ll probably end up with a ban on electric cars, if not a requirement that all vehicles use a coal-fired steam engine.

  125. 125
    HumboldtBlue says:

    @Mike in NC:

    It’s a more nuanced issue than sticking it to the libs. The use of electric vehicles on roads does lead to a lower amount of sales tax revenue and that’s money used to maintain roadways and public infrastructure.

    It’s an easy out for the dipshit right-wingers but it’s an important subject both in California and nationally.

    It was a key point of discussion when California passed its sales tax measure in 2016, SB1 and it will continue to be an important topic for California in the coming years because we have an awful lot of regulations and taxes on fossil fuels particularly gas and diesel that will dwindle with less use.

    That’s the paradox, less use of fossil fuels is the greater good but revamping how we tax and fund transportation infrastructure will be a new puzzle to solve.

  126. 126
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Kill Their Families is a thing on the American right. I’ve only heard it a few times, from drunk wingnuts, but don’t go to such gatherings often.

  127. 127
    Kent says:

    Why is Trump panicked about this?

    Because if gas prices double then it will literally be the last straw for the corn and soybean belt that is already suffering under Trump’s trade wars. They might be able to ride out the current corn and soybean prices with Trump’s subsidies. But if the cost of their tractor, combine, and truck fuel doubles then it’s literally game over.

    Same thing for the massive fleets of independent truckers who keep the just-in-time economy going and who (I suspect) vote heavily for Trump.

    And generally speaking, the more rural the area, the larger the gas guzzling trucks and SUVs in use and the larger the portion of monthly household costs goes to fueling up all their machines. A massive spike in gas prices is going to hit Trump-land about 100x harder than Blue America.

  128. 128
    catclub says:

    @Kent: It is always amusing how oil prices are generally misunderstood, on purpose.
    For instance, under normal circumstances, gas prices going up means more demand and a good economy. But higher gas prices are generally considered bad for the administration. Likewise, oil prices going down means the economy is bad, but Presidents generally seem happy to claim they presided over dropping gas prices.

  129. 129
    debbie says:


    Wasn’t Trump the guy who recently offered to serve as mediator in Yemen? //

  130. 130
    Millard Filmore says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    Kill Their Families is a thing on the American right.

    What’s the body count for the Right To Life party?

  131. 131
    Jay says:

    @Millard Filmore:

    Couple of tens of millions.

  132. 132
    jonas says:


    Same thing for the massive fleets of independent truckers who keep the just-in-time economy going and who (I suspect) vote heavily for Trump.

    Except Trump’s tax package totally screwed them over by eliminating a lot of the personal expense deductions that kept their tax bills relatively low. They’re hopping mad all over the country. On the other hand, he sure showed those Iranians whose boss….oh, wait.

  133. 133
    Duane says:

    @Jay: How is it that PM Modi is going to draw such a large crowd? Most people in this country couldn’t name India’s PM for love or money.

  134. 134
    Whatever says:

    I know nothing of any of the parties true capabilities. I do have a good deal of experience with commercial grade GPS receivers. Since neither the Houthis or the Iranians will have access to the rotating decryption keys for military GPS receivers, they can’t do much better. The holes are perfectly aligned dead center on the tanks, without the typical random drift inherent in GPS positioning solutions of high speed moving vehicles. Rock-solid positioning for ten ballistic missiles (amazing terminal guidance) or ten jet/prop powered drones seemingly unaffected by small control deviations needed to counteract variations in wind and turbulence typical near large structures. It would be easier to make nice neat holes using commercial grade multi-copters carrying explosive charges and local differential GPS corrections, but those would have to be launched from within a few km.

  135. 135
    Kent says:

    @catclub: It’s because oil is simultaneously a source of income for one sector of the economy but a cost for the rest of us. Hence the schizophrenia over this topic.

    It was most amusingly acute when I lived for a decade in Alaska which is utterly dependent on oil income for the economy and for the famous permanent fund dividend. But also a major cost for Alaskans with their massive trucks, snow machines, boats, and oil-heated homes. You could cut the cognitive dissonance with a knife.

  136. 136
    SFAW says:

    Unrelated, but:

    According to Molly Jong-Fast’s twitter thingy, Stephen Moore apparently said that the Moron-in-Chief has a 180 IQ.

    I’m assuming he garnered that info from the same place that “Doctor” Harold Bornstein got the info that the FatShit-in-Chief would be the most-excellently-healthiest Preznit EVAH!

    Either that, or the number is in dog-years

  137. 137
    James E Powell says:

    It seems that nearly every article or mention of Ric Ocasek reminds us that he was married to Paulina Porizkova. This has been so for many years.

  138. 138
    SFAW says:


    Wasn’t Trump the guy who recently offered to serve as mediator in Yemen?

    It wouldn’t surprise me. Of course, his “mediation” would consist of “Give me all your money. [Gets money] OK, now fuck off.”

  139. 139
    Mike G says:

    “waiting to hear from the Kingdom as to who they believe was the cause of the attack”

    It’s not like they could have any vested interest in lying. And who could be more trustworthy than a dictatorship of that tortures and dismembers journalists in their embassy overseas?

    Although seriously, that’s probably a point in their favor with Trump.

  140. 140
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Jay: Any Indian-American who shows up to this thing, except to protest, is a piece of shit. [narrator: there are a lot of Indian-American pieces of shit in these here United States.]

    ETA: OK, I was a little angry on reading this. There are -some- Indian-American pieces of shit. More than I wish, sigh. But most are decent, and voted to save our Republic. Most. Not all.

  141. 141
    Jay says:


    As Shrodingers Cat has pointed out, the Indian Nazi Party has a lot of “pull” in the Indian Diaspora, for “reasons”.

    So Indian Nazi’s in India tap into this for money to sway elections “back home” and to try to created an AIPAC clone abroad.

    So Dolt 45 has decided to try to “tap that” by clinging to coat tails.

    Nazis attract Nazis. Worse than bedbugs.

  142. 142
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @trollhattan: Eddie Money was born on March 21, 1949. Ric Ocasek was born on March 23, 1949. Any ’80s rocker born on March 25, 1949 might want to be concerned.

  143. 143
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I would argue that ex-Modern Lover David Robinson was key to the band’s initial coolness

  144. 144
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: that is an excellent point, as always, Double-O

  145. 145
    Jay says:


    Kashmir, not Yemen.

    Pretended Kahn reached out.

  146. 146
    patrick II says:


    Iran may give assistance to the Houthi in their war with the Saudis — but then we give Saudi Arabia assistance with their war on the Houthi.

  147. 147
    jl says:

    @patrick II: True. My comment was more a criticism of the rush to drum up a military response to Iran among top GOPers, including Pompeo. I think Trump’s sudden notion to talk with Iran set off alarm bells in some quarters, which are also most likely some of Trumps foreign paymasters.

  148. 148
    dww44 says:

    @Baud: I receive Leonhardt’s newsletter every day and he just epitomizes the FTFNYT brand of liberalism by almost always conditioning his support of Democrats with caveats. He’s a Third Way sort of Democrat . The only true liberals writing there are Blow, Goldberg, and Krugman.

  149. 149
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @dww44: Bouie also, neh?

  150. 150
    dww44 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I do believe that Ocasek was born in 1944, given that the reported age at death is 75.

  151. 151
    dww44 says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I don’t actually subscribe to the NYT, only the free newsletters. I didn’t think about Bouie. Honestly didn’t realize he wrote there. Does he have a regular gig, or is he an occasional contributor.

  152. 152
    NotMax says:


    That’s the number as expressed in degrees Kelvin.


  153. 153
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @dww44: Wikipedia shows both dates. The woo factor is much higher if it is 1949.

  154. 154
    billcinsd says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Ocasek was in a band called Milkwood, not Driftwood, that basically wanted to by Crosby Stills and Nash. They were OK for 1973

  155. 155
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @dww44: IIRC he’s a regular columnist. Heh, I’m not a subscriber, either. I’d give ’em money if my money canceled out some other subscriber’s money (and both went to, say, Planned Parenthood).

  156. 156
    James E Powell says:


    He said he graduated from high school in ’63 so the ’44 birthdate is probably the one. Although The Cars broke out of Boston, both Ocasek and Orr started out in Cleveland. We considered the band to be homeboys.

  157. 157
    Jay says:

    @patrick II:

    Yemen’s under a multinational sea and air blockaide that doesn’t allow food, medicine or fuel in.

    Yet, according to the Sawdi’s and their apoligists allowe Iran to smuggle in hundreds of 122’ long Scud Launchers.

    The reality is, Yemen had the largest rocket forces in the Middle East and more guns and weapons per Captia in the world, prior to the war.

    American ammosexuals might have 158 gunzs.

    Yemeni’s had 198 Kornet missiles.

    98% of the Yemeni Armed Forces, 74% of the Internal Security Forces, came out for the Ansruallah Movement.

    The “Houthis” have vid’s on line of soviet era t-34/85’s taking out Emrati Leapards, LeClercs and Sawdi M-1’s.

  158. 158
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    All of a sudden I fear for Bruce Springsteen, whose 70th birthday is next week.

  159. 159
    Doug R says:


    Okay okay. Perhaps I don’t get it and excuse me if I am flat wrong. Wouldn’t a big decrease in Mideast Oil supplies be GREAT NEWS for US oil producers?

    I would inquire as to alibis for Conservative Alberta Premier Jim Prentice and Federal Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer.

  160. 160
    Jay says:

    @Doug R:

    Scheer was speaking to a Nazi rally today,

    Kenney, the current con Priemier was busy criminalizing Trans National envoronmentalism.

  161. 161
    Jay says:

    @Doug R:

    Kenney’s speech was something about Monarch Butterflies being illegal immigrants from Mexico,…….

  162. 162
    Procopius says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    My Twitter colleagues are collecting tweets and quotes that say, from the man himself, that he is willing to meet with Iran.

    Yes, but as soon as he said that, Pompeo said they would not talk until Iran started behaving like “a normal country,” i.e. utterly surrender to American demands. That sounds like a precondition to me. On the othere hand, Supreme Ayatollah Khamenei has said they will not talk to the U.S. until sanctions are lifted. Meanwhile, it seems secret talks are going on, but we don’t know who, exactly, is involved. Trump’s reaction is ordinary American rage reaction. Just have to wait and see if he starts a war or not. If he does, Saudi and UAE oil fields are toast, as are all seaports in the region, and Riyadh. Since the UAE had already started talks with Iran Abu Dhabi might not be hit.

  163. 163
    Redshift says:


    I didn’t think about Bouie. Honestly didn’t realize he wrote there. Does he have a regular gig, or is he an occasional contributor.

    He’s only been there for a couple of months, I think, or maybe a little more.

  164. 164
    Redshift says:

    @Millard Filmore:

    What’s the body count for the Right To Life party?

    It’s only “right to life” for innocent lives. That’s how they justify also during the death penalty, but conveniently, anyone they think deserves to die is by definition not innocent.

  165. 165
    Procopius says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s interesting. I remember that on 17 December, 2009, a submarine-launched BGM-109DTomahawk cruise missile, carrying BLU-97A/B cluster munitions, devastated the village of al Ma’jalah in Yemen. Now, in those days, Al Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula was a small fringe group. The al Ma’jalah attack helped them recruit. After that there were two or three attacks every month. They were counter-productive, and Al Qa’ida in the Arabian Peninsula became a serious force. According to sources like Moon of Alabama, the Saudis often use them in their war.

  166. 166
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Whatever: The European Galileo positioning system is good to 1 metre accuracy unencrypted over most of the planet and the encrypted signal (accurate to about 3cm in perfect conditions) can be purchased off-the-shelf.

  167. 167
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Yarrow: Yes, we already know that no matter what he does and how much he lies, Trump’s Deplorable supporters have his back. Thankfully that won’t be enough to re-elect him although it shows that he can continue to grift while he’s going down.

  168. 168
    J R in WV says:


    I take it that everybody here knows that the massacre of civilians in Yemen started before Trump was elected?

    I don’t think anyone ever suggested he was any part of the beginning of that attempt at genocide.

    Bonesaw and the House of Saud appears to be the cause of that conflict. But he does appear to be willing to support the main source of death, the House of Saud, in the conflict.

  169. 169
    Mart says:

    Woody Allen liked the Orb too. (1973 – before we knew he was a creep.)

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