Election 2020 Open Thread: Elizabeth Warren Celebrates *Every* Vote

From Vanity Fair, “GOP Strategists Fear Trump’s “Pocahontas” Thing Isn’t Working”:

Several strategists tell the Daily Beast that Trump was caught off guard by the resonance of Warren’s populist rhetoric—a skill set that in some ways mirrors his own, minus the mental effluvia and human rights violations—and said she might be “tougher” to compete against than he realized, repeatedly asking advisers whether they consider Warren to be a “fighter.” Others confessed that, despite their best efforts to comb her record for dirt and to workshop attacks, the GOP oppo machine has been struggling to land any blows. Sure, some of Warren’s proposals are pie-in-the-sky, and maybe the math is hazy, but have you listened to Donald Trump? One strategist suggested that conservative think tanks have been struggling to keep up with the sheer volume of white papers Warren has been generating.

It doesn’t help that anti-Warren stories haven’t gotten as much pickup in the media, mainstream or otherwise. “We all push out the bad Warren stories but they don’t go very far,” the source said—a point echoed by nearly a dozen others. “Sure the Republican base will ultimately loathe Warren, but she doesn’t inspire the same kind of historic vitriol that Hillary Clinton did,” one of the strategists told the Beast. “That, combined with fact that SCOTUS isn’t on the line as it was in ’16, and remembering that Trump needed the perfect inside straight to barely win last time, and any Democrat is going to be tough to beat, Warren included.”

Special note, for the Blogmaster:

295 replies
  1. 1
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    From Vanity Fair, “GOP Strategists Fear Trump’s “Pocahontas” Thing Isn’t Working”:

    It always struck me as bizarre that he/they seem to think this is such a lethal blow– well, “he” not so much a surprise–, they’ve already got the talk-radio/war-on-Xmas voters.

  2. 2
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    other examples of conservative “humor”/political satire that they think is briliant and just leaves me blinking like the guy in the gif

    Scott Lincicome @ scottlincicome
    Kiddo: “Grandpa, what was 2019 like?”
    Old Scott: *pauses*
    *pulls out dusty photograph*
    *sighs deeply*
    It was like this

  3. 3
    MattF says:

    I’m liking Warren more. Maybe I’m rationalizing, but she appears to be learning from experience— a novel quality nowadays.

  4. 4
    Damien says:

    I was team Harris, and still am, but Elizabeth Warren is really stealing my heart. I want my president smart, articulate, and compassionate; EW has all that in spades.

    Though a large part of me wants Harris just so she can slice and dice all these RWFM (Right Wing Fucking Morons) and leave them twitching in their anti-intellectual viscera.

  5. 5
    Josie says:

    I like Harris and Warren both. Truthfully, if I had to vote today, I’m not sure which one I would choose. I guess that will become clearer after a few more months.

  6. 6
    Barbara says:

    @Damien: l contribute monthly to both Harris and Warren. I am not sure which one I would prefer at this point. I am in one of the Super Tuesday states.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They got drunk off emails.

  8. 8
    frosty says:


    I was team Harris, and still am, but Elizabeth Warren is really stealing my heart.

    I’m right there with you.I wanted someone younger but I’m not so worried any more that she’s old and won’t have the stamina she’ll need. Not after seeing 4 1/2 hour selfie lines and jogging to the stage and then off to her next appearance.

  9. 9
    Baud says:


    I think she’s run the best campaign so far, but I worry about being in a Warren bubble. I guess the next few weeks will tell.

    ETA: Englishified.

  10. 10
    Barbara says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: They can’t grasp why using a racially tinged slur isn’t a good way to prove racism on the part of someone else. They are so far down the rabbit hole on issues of race and ethnicity that i expect them to remain equally befuddled at least for the next few years. It is like Virginia Republicans who are slowly realizing that they can’t coast to victory on Northam’s blackface scandal. Pointing out someone’s racially obtuse past doesn’t help you when everyone knows you are even more racially obtuse right now.

  11. 11
    Betty Cracker says:

    I’ve got a Warren sticker on my Jeep — as far as I know, the only such sticker in this county, which went for Trump by 70% in 2016. The other day when I was loading groceries into the car, a fellow middle-aged white lady said, “Love your sticker!” and gave me a wink. I think she meant it!

  12. 12
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    more on the Turnberry story: In October 2016, per the Guardian, the US signed a service contract with Prestwick airport, but….

    Martyn McLaughlin @ MartynMcL
    I wrote in June about the £9m Defense Logistics Agrncy deal with the airport. Its custom with US military dates back decades, but it has escalated significantly in the past couple of years. A new, even more lucrative contract, will kick in later this year.
    EXCL US Defence Dept expenditure at the Scottish Govt owned Prestwick Airport has spiked dramatically in recent months. It’s spent £4.8m on USAF refuelling since March 2019. My @TheScotsman latest, inc the US Congress investigation revealed by @politico:

    thread with lots of links from a journalist with The Scotsman. It appears the story is more complicated than the Politico story suggests– which is too bad because the “It’s all just politics” types are repulsed by details– but the administration and the Pentagon pretty clearly don’t want to talk about this.

  13. 13
    Damien says:

    @frosty: Dude, I’m 34 and I feel like I’d develop a Red Bull addiction if I was working on the Warren campaign. She inspires me, way more than anyone else in the field aside from Harris.

    What a novel idea to have a president who’s inspirational instead of embarrassing!

  14. 14
    cain says:

    I’m a total ewarren person – I think she runs the best campaign, she is tough, resilient and now we know that she is teflon on oppo research. Meanwhile, Harris is already caught in a thing with politifact over her statement about suing Exxon which apparently she never did. I like Harris and would have no problem voting for her, but I suspect her record as prosecutor might continue to cause issues.

  15. 15
    MattF says:

    @Barbara: Yes. And Trump’s repeated clairm that he’s absolutely the least racist person ever in all of recorded history doesn’t actually persuade anyone.

  16. 16

    Can somebody explain how you can ban fracking unilaterally?

  17. 17
    Baud says:


    and now we know that she is teflon on oppo research

    That’s premature, but I agree with the rest.

  18. 18
    Another Scott says:

    The NC election for Dan McCready for the House is Tuesday. I just sent a little more to him to help GOTV.

    I used DougJ’s thermometer here.


  19. 19
    cain says:


    What a novel idea to have a president who’s inspirational instead of embarrassing!

    Hey now.. what was Obama then? :-) All kinds of inspirational :P we had all of that.. but not with Tang The Dumb.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Can’t. At most if there are any federal permits involved, they can stop issuing them.

  21. 21
    Another Scott says:

    @Major Major Major Major: The BLM did it on Federal and Indian Lands in 2015. States (like WA by Inslee) have done it. PSP Warren can be quite persuasive and I’m sure she’s looked into what it would take to ban it nationwide.

    My $0.02.


  22. 22

    @Another Scott: @Baud: isn’t that rule just for new permits? And only on lands the government has permit-issuing authority over? And (from reading it) not actually a ban? The WA ban was from the legislature. I just don’t see how you “ban fracking” on “day one.”

    It’s very unlike warren to make this sort of claim.

  23. 23
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    The NOAA staffer who sent out the tweet covering trump’s arse on Damien and Alabama (or trying to) was an alumna of the campaign and the inaugural committee. Shocking, I know

  24. 24
    Another Scott says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Sound bites are a necessary part of politics.

    Remember that Obama was going to close Guantanamo? And he wrote an executive order to do so, with the consent of Congress? He did his part, Congress didn’t do theirs.

    I wouldn’t give her grief about this, myself. She’s telling us what she will try to do, and we know she’ll work within the system to do it.


  25. 25

    @Another Scott: I suppose she did put banning fracking in a second sentence.

  26. 26
    Barbara says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Why they can’t let this expire on its own is just beyond me.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott: IIRC, the EO did order Gitmo closed, and Congress ended up blocking it by legislation.

  28. 28
    MattF says:

    @Barbara: ‘They’ would love to, but Trump won’t let go. The Emperor is in charge.

  29. 29
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Barbara: kind of interesting to think that this is the thing trump thinks he needs to defend, the thing he apparently thinks makes him look stupid, as opposed to– just to pick from the last month– saying he should be able to buy Greenland.

  30. 30
    Baud says:


    Feeding the beast. Their base needs info to pass back and forth to each other and to use to respond to liberals on the Internet who they might encounter.

  31. 31
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Every candidate lies like this. Just about everything important a candidate says their going to do, Congress would have to do by passing legislation.

  32. 32
    zhena gogolia says:


    A friend said to me yesterday, “I really like Warren. But when I bring her up, everyone I talk to says, ‘No one will vote for her.'” That was a little message from outside the bubble to me. I don’t know what it’s based on. My friend was really depressed about it.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I don’t think it’s really that easy to predict how voters will react in the general election. For any of the candidates. People try to make predictions based on current polls, crowd size, and their own personal biases, but I’m not sure any of that is all that meaningful.

  34. 34
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @zhena gogolia: a cousin of mine, who was politicized in her late 40s first by Newtown and then by trump, was saying a couple of years ago things like ‘we can’t take a chance on nominating a woman”. I haven’t talked to her about the primary, but I think between that fear among liberals and the “I’d vote for a woman, it just has to be the right woman” strain of quiet misogyny, there are a couple of big weights on a Warren candidacy. Not fatal, IMHO, but things that would make it harder for her than Biden, who has his own obstacles, obviously.

    I’m a bit baffled by the “Warren is too angry” thing that was going around a few weeks ago. She strikes me as the happiest of warriors.

    @Baud: the over-promising and maximalist sloganeering makes me nervous about the GE, but I’m of a pessimistic nature, so… FWIW. Some guy on twitter (so, again, FWIW) said a fracking ban is bad politics in PA

  35. 35
    Another Scott says:

    @Baud: That’s probably more accurate. E9-1893:

    g) It is in the interests of the United States that the executive branch conduct a prompt and thorough review of the circumstances of the individuals currently detained at Guantánamo who have been charged with offenses before military commissions pursuant to the Military Commissions Act of 2006, Public Law 109-366, as well as of the military commission process more generally.

    Sec. 3. Closure of Detention Facilities at Guantánamo. The detention facilities at Guantánamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than 1 year from the date of this order. If any individuals covered by this order remain in detention at Guantánamo at the time of closure of those detention facilities, they shall be returned to their home country, released, transferred to a third country, or transferred to another United States detention facility in a manner consistent with law and the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States.

    “in a manner consistent with law”, and PL109-366 and all the rest may have additional caveats that would have allowed Congress to block it even without additional legislation – I don’t know.

    The bigger point is that it allowed him to show, quickly and easily, where he stood on it and as a contrast with the GOP that (seemingly) wanted to put nearly everyone with brown skin and a headscarf there.



  36. 36


    Every candidate lies like this.

    In my experience warren does it the least, which is why I found it worth remarking on. I wouldn’t have said anything if it were any of the other candidates.

  37. 37


    1) Because Trump is a narcissist and narcissists can never be wrong.

    2) For a narcissist, knowing that others have figured you’re wrong and they’re laughing at your is quite literally the worst possible thing in the world, since it causes an existential threat to the facade they put up.

    3) For his minions, see the “Emperor’s New Clothes.” Also Orwell’s quote about the final, most essential command of the Party is telling people to reject the evidence of their eyes and ears as a proof of loyalty.

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    the over-promising and maximalist sloganeering makes me nervous about the GE,

    But our voters need to be inspired!!! :-/

    It concerns me more post election when promises aren’t able to be kept. People say they’re ok with failure as long as an effort was made, but they’re lying.

    @Major Major Major Major:

    I haven’t followed that closely, but since Warren has so many proposals, I’m surprised to hear she does it least.

  39. 39
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: It concerns me more post election when promises aren’t able to be kept. People say they’re ok with failure as long as an effort was made, but they’re lying.

    and as the Gitmo example proves, even if an effort was made, the Purity Left will still use that failure as evidence that a certain politician never meant it and was a secret Republican all along

  40. 40
    MattF says:

    @Baud: I have trouble parsing my own likes and dislikes, and I continue to be gobsmacked by things right-wingers say and do. There’s vast oceans of wtf out there.

  41. 41

    @Baud: that’s what I like about her, her proposals are usually rooted in a firm understanding of what the executive can and can’t do.

    Reading that tweet again after coffee, I can see how she’s saying it in the same way as one might sloganeer “and we will! have! Medicare! for! all!” or whatever. But that’s if you parse the tweet generously 🤷🏻‍♂️ and of course it’s a tweet.

  42. 42
    daveNYC says:

    @cain: I’m not sure she’s Teflon so much as there’s just no dirt they can throw at her. They managed to Swiftboat Kerry, so I’d hold off on statements on how untouchable she is until we see what the creative writing group in the Republican Party comes up with.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, I think before we wasted a year dealing with Greenwald attacking Obama over metadata, we wasted a year dealing with Greenwald attacking Obama over Gitmo. (I’m not even going to mention the D word).

  44. 44
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    How do you keep up with candidate news? I’ve been fairly relaxed about it because it was so early, but now that we’re into the fall, I should really starting thinking about opposition research making a considered judgment about the candidates.

  45. 45
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: but now she’ll probably have to defend it, CNN anchors and local news reporters will suddenly develop a keen interest in fracking (“but what about jobs?”) and the legalities of executive action. Or else this will fade and no one will bring it up again. /shrug what-the-fuck-do-I-know emoji/

    I’ll never forget a clip from late in the ’16 campaign, HRC was talking to a local reporter, I wanna say in Phoenix, and they went through the standard questions and at the end he smirked and asked, “and what was in those emails, anyway?” and HRC just got this “WTF?” look on her face, and I don’t remember the answer. The reporter’s tone and expression suggested he forgot that the emails were supposed to be a vital question of national security, but he knew that asking about them was “savvy” and “tough”.

  46. 46
    The Dangerman says:

    ….combined with fact that SCOTUS isn’t on the line as it was in ’16….

    The Republican commercials will have RBG in her deathbed; yes, it will be tacky, but when has that ever stopped them?

  47. 47
    MomSense says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Even though St Bernard was one of the votes denying the funding needed to transport the detainees out of Gitmo to federal prisons. Wasn’t the vote in the Senate something like 98-2. The failure was chickenshit Senators who were worried about the reaction of their constituents to having terrorists in their states.

  48. 48

    @Baud: Twitter and memeorandum mostly, and here of course. They’re good for getting a sense of “what people are talking about.” It’s not a definitive approach by any means, but you go to war with the free time you have…

    I really do zero in on how the candidates would use executive power, though, since everybody’s legislative proposals are irrelevant due to Joe Manchin. I think the candidates’ theory of what an executive is, and what they can (and should!) do, is very important. Which is why this stuck out like a sore thumb for me.

  49. 49
    Ruckus says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Warren doesn’t apologize. She also doesn’t attack, she explains.
    Much harder to attack the explanation rather than the apology that is never enough of one, because then you are talking about the issue rather than the person. Hillary apologized and was attacked for being “insincere.” It becomes a round robin about nothing but the candidate, not their ideals/policies. Doesn’t matter if it’s bullshit, which it of course was, it leads to questioning. Hillary isn’t the only candidate that this has been used against, it’s just that the attack landed. With Warren, there really isn’t any place to attack, and the only thing tried, didn’t land, because it’s so lame and something not at all unusual. Hillary has history, that was turned against her and repeated ad nauseam. She got the votes but lost the battle. Warren doesn’t accept the premise.

  50. 50
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @The Dangerman: I missed that line in the OP. The Right doesn’t, apparently, need to be reminded about the courts, it’s big portions of the Left that doesn’t want to be “blackmailed” over such trivialities.

    Also, they either can’t or won’t grok that all the fine promises and lofty slogans and emotive bellowing won’t mean much if we don’t fill the inside straight and take back the Senate, and even then Joe Manchin will most likely have an effective veto

  51. 51
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Thanks. I do a little of the Twitter thing, but I’ve never gotten used to its busy-ness.

    I’ll look at memeorandum. I know that’s where Warren posts a lot of her ideas.

  52. 52
    Chyron HR says:

    Great, now I have to listen to all my twitter mutuals whining that Warren is transphobic, on top of the laughable claim that Bernie is a champion of LGBT rights.

  53. 53

    @The Dangerman: Banning fracking is going to be spun hard as bad for Pennsylvania, possibly even by Biden before the GOP picks it up in the general (unless he’s the nominee, also even then). I don’t know that it’ll matter, but it’s going to happen. IMO. Predictions are hard tho

    I feel like none of the candidates have a butter-emails-caliber “only thing people talk about” issue yet, but it’s early days.

    @Baud: She posts on Medium. memeorandum is an aggregator.

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @Chyron HR:

    What’s the connection between Ru Paul and transphobia?

  56. 56
    Elizabelle says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    But when I bring her up, everyone I talk to says, ‘No one will vote for her.’”

    Then we all need to learn to push back.

    Really? Who is saying that? Is it Republicans or glibertarians? Do you think that is actually true, or just “conventional wisdom”?

    I don’t doubt there is some unexpressed in words anxiety about Warren and the reforms she would bring. Which might be accepted, on faith, by the people who will agree, because it’s conventional wisdom, that Republicans are better for the economy, better for business, and better stewards of our money.

    Absolutely none of which is true.

  57. 57
    ThresherK says:

    @Ruckus: The “explain” part is often wrapped in precision strikes against stupidity. (See: GOP talking points emanating from CNN at the town hall.)

    It’s attention-getting and decisive pushback, and a model for any Dem to follow.

  58. 58

    @Baud: Ru Paul has said some pretty transphobic things in the past, and continue to refuse cast trans woman who do drag (as well as cisgender, and also drag kings) on his show.

    For someone who was transgressive in his youth, he’s become pretty rigid in his views about what drag “should” be.

  59. 59

    @Baud: oy. drag culture is seen by some as transphobic because it’s inherently about a man pretending to be an absurd caricature of a woman, and how this is funny/entertaining. then there’s the whole idea of using female pronouns etc. for male-identifying people. also, Ru Paul used to use words like “shemale” that are now (were always?) seen as transphobic, though he has since stopped.

    it’s… not exactly fringe, but comes up from time to time. largely it’s been litigated and resolved though.

    this is just my perspective, i don’t speak for trans people obviously.


    @Sister Golden Bear: there’s a cis woman this season and has been at least one trans woman in the past. (google says eight former contestants are now out as trans, some of them were out during the filming and discussed it?)

  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:
    @Major Major Major Major:

    I learn so much here. BJ is better than Twitter and memorandum out together. Thanks!

  61. 61
    RAVEN says:

    @Major Major Major Major: you know what RoseanneRoseannadanna would say.

  62. 62
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Marshall Cohen @ MarshallCohen
    President Trump just arrived at his golf club in Sterling, Virginia. This is his 290th day at visiting one of his properties, according to CNN’s count. That means Trump has officially spent 30% of his presidential term so far at his own properties.

    I’m so old… I remember when Republicans flogged Obama’s golf habits so hard MoDo put it in every other column, and Fritz Mondale used to bring it up every time some Minnesota stringer was sent around to wake him up and ask what he thought of current affairs.

  63. 63
    germy says:

    Look at Bailey!

    Are we sure Warren isn’t a commenter here? She’d fit right in.

    Bailey "helped" me with grassroots donor call time yesterday. pic.twitter.com/qXUHmYEyb2— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) September 7, 2019

  64. 64
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I didn’t know Mondale ended up a hater.

  65. 65
    Juice Box says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: My mother avoids politics for the most part and she doesn’t like Warren “because she’s so angry.” She prefers Harris. I feel like EW is by far the sunniest candidate, in fact, in that characteristic she reminds me of WJC and RWR.

    My biggest concern with EW is that she has a Republican governor. I don’t see him appointing JPKIII to replace her.

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @Juice Box: That is a downside, but Mass. at least holds a special election fairly quickly.

  67. 67
    J R in WV says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Can somebody explain how you can ban fracking unilaterally?

    I don’t care if that’s just an aspirational goal, I’m with her being willing to try.

  68. 68
    germy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m so old I remember when Jimmy Carter gave up his peanut farm.

  69. 69

    @Juice Box: the MA legislature should just pass a veto-proof bill ending the “governor appoints whoever they want” nonsense.

  70. 70
    Chetan Murthy says:

    she has a Republican governor.

    Fucking Charlie Baker. Did you read about what the judge he appointed is doing to the counter-protestors in Boston?

    And the cops went ape-shit on what was a pretty normal counter-protest.


  71. 71
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Can’t. 17th Amendment

    When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.

  72. 72

    @Baud: several states don’t let the executive appoint whoever the hell they want, MA can join them in setting a same-party restriction (or whatever).

  73. 73
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: I don’t know if he was a hater, more a resenter, and he certainly wasn’t the only old wannabe (or even winner) who could never forgive Obama for winning more elections, primaries and generals, than they could

    hell, for all his talk about his “brother”, Barack, and all his leaning on “as I always said to Barack… sorry, I mean President Obama…”, I think Biden thinks he’d be more effective than Obama, because of all his old pals in the Senate.

  74. 74
    trollhattan says:

    Whatever the hell “relatable” is supposed to mean, EW has it. She’s normal people while being thorough and super-dupah smart.

    Harris should get a basset. And an endorsement from Angela Bassett.

  75. 75
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Gotcha. I thought you were saying no appointment whatsoever.

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I suppose anyone running for president thinks — and should think — they’ll be the best ever. But there is definitely a lot of resentment out there even from people who are not in the Trump camp.

  76. 76
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @zhena gogolia: Everyone thinks that nobody else likes Warren.

    I do have a friend who absolutely hates Warren, over the DNA test business (he supports Cory Booker), and it’s made me pay more attention to complaints about that on the left than the political system maybe warrants.

  77. 77
    Ruckus says:

    To counter act the explanation, one has to explain. And now one is talking about the issue, and most likely not in a way that dismisses the issue but expands on it. As well the press now talks about the issue, not the person. Repubs are running for junior high class president, and that is all “personality,” there are no issues.

  78. 78
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    when someone posts on twitter, does the timestamp accurately reflect the time they sent it? It’s not Greenwich Mean Time or something?

    Donald J. Trump @ realDonaldTrump
    The Washington Post’s @PhilipRucker (Mr. Off the Record) & @AshleyRParker, two nasty lightweight reporters, shouldn’t even be allowed on the grounds of the White House because their reporting is so DISGUSTING & FAKE. Also, add the appointment of MANY Federal Judges this Summer!…
    4:08 AM – 7 Sep 2019

  79. 79
    wvng says:

    The fracking ban is a mistake that she will have to walk back. Fracking covers a lot of ground and will not be banned. It needs to be heavily regulated.

  80. 80
    Matt McIrvin says:

    Is banning fracking now what we want to do, anyway? For all the problems associated with it, it’s probably helped the US carbon footprint just by making natural gas cheaper than coal and oil as electric power sources. We need to switch from natural gas to renewables, but eliminating the gas peaker plants requires storage tech that isn’t quite there yet on the grid scale. I don’t know, maybe forcing a natural gas shortage is a necessary impetus.

  81. 81
    J R in WV says:

    @J R in WV:

    Personally, fracking is right there with coal mining as an environmental disaster, if not worse. We know that methane is a horrific greenhouse gas, we do not know how much methane will eventually escape into the atmosphere as a result of fracking caused earthquakes and faulting.

  82. 82
    Barbara says:

    @MattF: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think it is bcause it is so trivial and
    easily disproved that he finds it especially embarrassing. No way to spin this as Trump being clever in his own way.

  83. 83
    trollhattan says:

    @J R in WV:
    Crank up the burden of proof of the environmental review? Fracking is cloaked in secrecy, from what becomes of the briny poisonous wastewater to what chemicals comprise the fracking fluid, which they hide under the rubric of “proprietary secrets.”

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I don’t think she can walk it back. Fracking was one of the issues that separated Bernie and Hillary. Bernie proposed a complete ban, while Hillary proposed to highly regulate it. If Warren walks it back, she loses some of her support on the left. IMHO.

    I think that’s also why she has said little about her health care plan.

  85. 85
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Juice Box: Counterpoint: if Warren is the nominee, Rep. Kennedy probably won’t take on Senator Markey, a pointless primary fight that would waste good money that would be better spent fighting Republicans.

  86. 86

    @Major Major Major Major: Looks like Ru has loosened up a bit with casting, but for years he wouldn’t cast out trans women — although a number of them came out after (and the during the show). Not sure if he relented on that as well.

    The latter was particularly appalling because there’s a long history of trans women as drag performers. Especially for trans WOC, drag has been a safe space for them to explore their gender before coming out. My own drag mother was a trans woman, and I know of at least a half-dozen other trans women who perform drag in the Bay Area.

    And yes, there’s a leftier-than-thou contingent that sees drag as inherently misogynistic,* as well as a small minority of trans activists who see drag as inherently transphobic because of cisgender men presenting an exaggerated femininity that’s supposedly mocking trans women. (FWIW, I’d argue drag is it’s own unique gender, but that’s a whole other discussion.)

    *Not to say that that aren’t (far too many) drag performers who are misogynists.

  87. 87
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    Conversation in our house this morning. Background: We get home delivery of the NYT on weekends. So we saw the “1619 Project” magazine and started reading it just before the national conversation about it exploded.

    Me: So where is that 1619 Project magazine? Think I’ll finish it this weekend.
    Long-Suffering Wife: I gave it to you.
    Me: No you didn’t. I’ve been waiting for you to finish it so I could read it.
    LSW: Yes I did. I read one article and then handed it to you. I’ve been waiting for you to finish it.
    Me: I remember you showed me one article which I read, but then I handed it back to you.
    LSW: No, you definitely kept it. You put it in your backpack or something.
    Me: I would not have put it in my backpack. I specifically remember thinking that I didn’t want to do that because papers get all messed up in my backpack.
    LSW: I definitely don’t have it. Look through your stuff.
    (I go through some of my piles of stuff to read. No sign of it. I open backpack just to prove to myself it’s not there. A few minutes later, I sheepishly walk up to her holding the magazine.)
    LSW: (Says nothing. Does a masterful job of not rolling eyes or looking triumphant or falling down laughing or throwing laundry at me.)

    For the record, it didn’t get too mussed. It’s on the pile to read tonight.

  88. 88

    @J R in WV: fracking doesn’t cause earthquakes, shitty fluid disposal practices do.

  89. 89
    Msilaneous says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You’re right, which makes me think she might have a plan for that in the works.

  90. 90
    trollhattan says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    IDK how you can separate their dual impacts–both involve injection wells drilled into geologic formations.

  91. 91

    @Sister Golden Bear: Ru definitely had issues in the not-so-distant past, but I was under the impression that there was a good-natured reconciliation underway, like with Dan Savage a decade ago. I haven’t really been following it closely though.

  92. 92

    @Sister Golden Bear: FWIW, I actually think the more destructive effect of Ru Paul’s Drag Race, is that it’s created a generation of cookie-cutter drag queens who think once has to be nasty and bicker to be a queen.

    I stopped watching around Season 3, when it was clear the producers were more interested in the personal drama than the performances. I once met one of the season 1 cast, who said that the producers were extremely disappointed that the cast got along well and didn’t fight on or off camera.

    And with that, it’s off to bed.

  93. 93
    zhena gogolia says:


    Knowing the person I was talking to, the people she was talking to were probably never-Trumpers. People who are constitutionally Republican, but Trump is a bridge too far. We have to get some of them, I believe.

  94. 94
    Juice Box says:

    @Betty Cracker: JPKIII has already endorsed EW, I believe. I think his will I/won’t I challenge Markey noise is the way he’s laying down a marker to run for the Senate if EW gets the promotion.

  95. 95
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Barbara: Likewise for both comments.

  96. 96

    @Sister Golden Bear: it’s also made gay slang sort of monolithic and annoying IMO.

  97. 97

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s the posting time. It’s possible to set a tweet to post at a specific time, but I don’t think that’s what Trump is doing. The man sleeps very little. Turns out that correlates with increased risk for Alzheimers.

  98. 98

    @Major Major Major Major: I haven’t followed it closely either, but from I recall, I wouldn’t necessarily call it a good natured reconciliation from the trans community’s POV. More of a “OK, he’s talking the talk, but we’ll wait and see if he walks the walk.”

  99. 99
    Chyron HR says:


    My understanding of their complaints are:
    – Drag is like “Trans Blackface”
    – Drag was originally a trans thing and cis men co-opted it
    – Trans women aren’t allowed on drag race because they’re not men (which I consider a pretty bullshit complaint but I present it here for completeness)

    ETA: Oh, I see that was already answered, derp.

  100. 100

    @Major Major Major Major: That too.

    But I hang out with more the artsy-queer crowd and lesbians, so thankfully I encounter it less.

  101. 101

    @Sister Golden Bear: that seems fair.

    @Sister Golden Bear: I tend towards radical faerie stuff, which has its own problems, but monolithic slang ain’t one of them.

  102. 102
    Another Scott says:

    @Baud: Also, be aware that Memeorandum seems to have a very RW slant. Maybe because the RWNJs have so many PA systems that they have turned up to 11, but it can be disheartening to see the tidal-wave of stuff from the RWNJ perspective.

    At least it was that way the last time I looked at it.

    I find myself skimming LOLGOP on Twitter (via the web interface) to see whatever “breaking” memes are going on these days. And Wonkette for a slightly slower pace.


  103. 103

    @Another Scott: I think memeorandum just reflects the rightward slant of the media ecosystem. I also trust that Baud can identify which outlets to ignore :)

  104. 104
    Another Scott says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: It’s the posting time, in California, I think. At least looking at it via the web interface (without an account) it always seems to be California time.

    Presumably if you’re logged in with Twitter then it shows with the correct offset for whatever time zone you’re in. Just a guess though.


  105. 105

    I’m not entirely joking when I say that programmers mishandling time zones has a 10% chance of destroying the world.

  106. 106

    @Chyron HR: I’ve mentioned above that I think #1 is without merit.

    #2 is flat-out wrong. The two have been intertwined for decades, and if anything, drag actually started as a purportedly hetrosexual artform back in the 1800s, when female impersonators were huge and played at the biggest theaters in cities and town.

    #3 had merit, and was not insignificant — appearing on RPDR even if one is eliminated early, drastically increases how much a performer makes, and former RPDR contestants are among the few drag queens who actually make full-time living at it. So it was a legitimate complaint about being denied of a shot at the big time — and in line with Ru’s larger misogyny that women couldn’t and shouldn’t do drag because it’s art form exclusively for gay men.

  107. 107
    tomtofa says:

    Most families have stories and family history that gives members a feeling that they’re in some tiny way special. Ours was about a female Irish ancestor, a maid, who saved her mistress from arrest by the British by having the mistress pose as a lower servant. The ancestor gave her hell -“You call that fireplace clean?? Get in there and do a proper job!” to the amusement of the troops, who left. I’ve heard variations of that story with various people playing the role of the ancestor over the years, and realized it was just a story.

    Point being many people will find Warren relatable for being proud of her family story, and incessant mockery and public shaming of her about it will turn them against the mockers. I think that’s why the attack doesn’t have very long legs.

  108. 108

    @Major Major Major Major: Don’t get me started on how being in a different time zone has completely trashed my calendar these past two weeks. I had to entirely delete and recreate the reminders for my flights back home because they remained on California time and I couldn’t get them to properly update to Thai time.

    I’m sure I’m gonna have to go through the same BS when I return because all the meeting invites at work that I accepted while I’m here will also be off by 14 hours. Fraking Office Exchange. *spits*

  109. 109

    @Another Scott: Good point. When I’m on twitter, I don’t actually see a time stamp, just the amount of time that’s passed since it was posted. Hm. The earliest post I see from him today went up 7 hours ago. That’s still early but not the middle of the night.

  110. 110
    daveNYC says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Done in conjunction with a massive push tirades renewables it shouldn’t be a problem. Plus fracking seems to be a great way to pump industrial waste into people’s aquifers, which isn’t great.

  111. 111
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tomtofa: True or not, that’s an awesome story! ;-)

    It’s not my place to tell people who won’t accept Warren’s apology for past claims to Native blood to get over it, but I will point out that THIS person has no standing to criticize anyone else on the topic, ever:

    Trump’s strategy seems to be to gin up anger over Warren’s supposedly benefiting from diversity quotas, which the Boston Globe’s exhaustive report on that issue suggests didn’t happen. I think Trump’s base just hears “diversity quotas” and “Elizabeth Warren” and gets an anger-boner on general principles, but they aren’t going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

  112. 112

    @Sister Golden Bear: yeah, that seems to happen to me every time I travel too.

  113. 113
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    it’s probably helped the US carbon footprint

    Perhaps not: Fracking boom tied to methane spike in Earth’s atmosphere

    Scientists have measured big increases in the amount of methane, the powerful global warming gas, entering the atmosphere over the last decade. Cows or wetlands have been fingered as possible sources, but new research points to methane emissions from fossil fuel production—mainly from shale gas operations in the United States and Canada—as the culprit.

    The “massive” increase in methane emissions occurred at the same time as the use of fracking for shale gas took off in the U.S., says Robert Howarth, an ecologist at Cornell University and author of the study published Aug 14 in the journal Biogeosciences.

    “We know the increase is largely due to fossil fuel production and this research suggests over half is from shale gas operations,” Howarth says in an interview.

  114. 114
    J R in WV says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    fracking doesn’t cause earthquakes, shitty fluid disposal practices do.

    Shitty fluid disposal practices are part of fracking.

  115. 115

    @J R in WV: only in the same way as shitty waste disposal practices are “part of” nuclear power. It’s not actually necessary and can be regulated.

  116. 116
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Betty Cracker: I think Trump’s base just hears “diversity quotas” and “Elizabeth Warren” and gets an anger-boner on general principles, but they aren’t going to vote for a Democrat anyway.

    That’s my take, too. And hopefully the Left can come up with some viral memes or whatever about the senescent trust fund baby who failed at everything he tried and almost lost all of daddy’s money until a Hollywood producer came up with an idea for a silly game show, to at long last give some traction to the fact that he is the farthest thing from a “self-made businessman”

  117. 117
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’m not sure you should reach for nuclear power as an example. It doesn’t seem like the disposal of nuclear waste is in any way a solved problem. I mean, maybe to some people it is, but the people who think it’s still unsolved include lots of non-cranks.

  118. 118
    Feathers says:

    The best response to the Warren booth: “She has a plan to help you lipsync for your life.” Which would actually be the most hilarious campaign ad. Because you know she would do a hell of a job coaching a queen. If you look at the booth, the stuff they are giving out is DragCon worthy. The posters are all really well designed and would stand up design wise at Pride, not just simply as campaign material. They are also passing out fans with “I’m a Warren fan” on them, along with “Text QUEEN to 24477.” The guy working the booth also replied to the reporter to stop by. These folks know what they are doing.

    @Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, amazing how fine the hairs can be split. You are doing intersectionality wrong if you think everybody hates the same shit you do. My fave moment was at a con where the grey haired ladies in the audience were trying to school the clueless dude on the panel that all the hot young transwomen getting all the media attention, while the older, less attractive transwomen were being ignored was not really transphobia, but something all women experienced and thus more properly considered misogyny. Panelist was enraged. Aligning himself in any way with menopausal women was unthinkable. Also the disruption of fanfiction panels by folks offended by M/M slashfic. Sigh.

    @Major Major Major Major: My understanding is that you can simply require environmental protection requirements the frackers cannot meet. Also, require post site cleanup and return to former state, bonds posted for lifetime free clean water for any communities affected by watershed contamination, and so on.

  119. 119
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:


    Tim Ryan Says He Doesn’t Think Biden Has Energy to Defeat Trump
    “I just think Biden is declining,” Ryan said of the Democratic presidential campaign’s front-runner during a phone call. “I don’t think he has the energy. You see it almost daily. And I love the guy.”

    being neither a Biden-supporter nor a Biden-hater, I’m not sure he’s not telling an inconvenient truth here

    (he goes on to whine about the winnowing standards for the debates, which I personally think are ridiculously low)
    ETA: Being technologically challenged, I may be way off, but couldn’t the non-qualifying campaigns organize their own debate, rent a Holiday Inn ballroom, some reporter somewhere would act as moderator, livestream it on Facebook, maybe the other streaming news services would carry it. Strikes me as more proactive than whining that Tom Perez is secretly plotting to help Andrew Yang eclipse the Tim Ryan Juggernaut.

  120. 120

    @Chetan Murthy: our own Cheryl Rofer is, if I’m not mistaken, in agreement with me.

  121. 121

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Tim Ryan thought he’d be a better Speaker than Pelosi. He’s not strong in the judgement department.

  122. 122
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Major Major Major Major: With AGW, there are basically no respected scientific voices who disagree. With nuclear waste disposal, last I checked, this was not the case. It’s a subject in hot dispute. And nobody, just nobody, wants a disposal site anywhere near them.

    Are you volunteering your house?

  123. 123
    Gretchen says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I am trying to figure out why conservatives feel so attacked by the 1619 project. I had another tell me that yesterday. I wish I had pressed her more on why, but we usually avoid politics. She has a black son-in-law and biracial grandson, but she still felt the project was calling her a racist and asked why people couldn’t just let it go since it was a long time ago. There seems to be a disproportionate amount of hurt and anger about it on the right, for what looks to me like a solid academic project, and I’d love to find out the reason for it. I do think that most of them haven’t actually looked at it, but still.

  124. 124
    Ken says:

    Well, if “Pocahontas” isn’t working, maybe he could try “girl cooties” or “poopy-face”.

    Or “nasty”, I expect he can remember “nasty”.

  125. 125
    206inKY says:

    I’m a 39 year old professor. Most of my grad school friends were in the bag for Bernie in 2016. Some voted Stein. My most charitable reading is that they resented how the field was cleared; instead of a range of choices like 2008, it felt like baby boomers were dragging us back into some internecine fight over the 1990s or even 1960s. But it was all such a shitshow; I still feel rage about the folks who were unwilling to step up for Hillary when it mattered.

    This time around, a small number of those grad school friends are with Bernie. The rest are largely for Warren. Both have passed the ideological litmus tests. I think Bernie is completely out of contention since his sexism has created a hard ceiling, and Warren is the odds-on favorite. Unlike Hillary, she will have no problem picking up Bernie supporters since their views align.

    But personally, I think disaster awaits if we swing too hard to the left, which is why I’m supporting Beto. I think Josh Marshall nails it here:


    I’m glad that Warren wasn’t asked that raise-your-hands question about banning private health insurance in the debates. Only Harris and De Blasio fell for that question, which was served up on a platter for Republican attack ads in the general election.

    I wish there was more reckoning with the pivotal role of the sunbelt suburbs in 2018. Dems smartly avoided blue dog types (who mix social conservatism with a blue collar economic agenda), and instead ran folks who tacked left on social issues like sexism and racism, but embraced a more moderate economic message of protecting Obamacare and restoring balance and good government. I think the suburbs slip away if we run on tax increases and economic revolution.

  126. 126
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve been convinced Biden isn’t up to the job ever since I heard a clip of him speaking to reporters in Detroit the day after a debate, and he kept mixing “acid rain” up with “Agent Orange” and repeatedly and emphatically mispronouncing “exponentially.” Setting aside my preference for another candidate, it terrifies me that Biden is the person most likely to win the nomination right now.

    PS: Do you believe Ryan’s claim that he didn’t know he was talking to a reporter when he said that?

  127. 127
    Suzanne says:


    She’s normal people while being thorough and super-dupah smart.

    I hate this framing. She is incredibly intelligent. Exceptionally so. That means she isn’t “normal people”.

    This is a wonderful thing, of course. We are a country of well over 300 million people; we should be looking for the best and brightest, not some average schmuck.

    I love both Warren and Harris. If the primary was held today, I’d probably go for Warren, but I already have and may again change my mind on this.

  128. 128

    @Chetan Murthy:

    And nobody, just nobody, wants a disposal site anywhere near them.

    Are you volunteering your house?

    I was unaware I lived in a deep hole in the middle of nowhere (or a reactor complex, where most waste is stored).

    ETA nor am I interested in another round of arguing about nuclear waste with the commenters here. Nothing that hasn’t been litigated in one of Cheryl’s threads will be written.

  129. 129

    @Chetan Murthy:

    And nobody, just nobody, wants a disposal site anywhere near them.

    Are you volunteering your house?

    I was unaware I lived in a deep hole in the middle of nowhere (or a reactor complex, where most waste is stored).

  130. 130
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Gretchen: I think it all goes back to Al Franken’s (I think) observation that Democrats love this country like adults love each other, able to recognize flaws and think our loved ones could improve themselves; Republicans love this country like five year olds love their parents, if you say anything bad about mommy or daddy, they want to fight you. Tie into this that it’s a form of identify politics, if America is perfect, they are virtuous (brave, independent, and not least at all: self-made*). If you say America is racist, they’re racist, and they know racism is, to borrow from Katharine Hepburn, sometimes hateful, usually stupid and always, always wrong. They are not wrong, they are not hateful, and most of all, they are not stupid, they just tell it like it is, even if it’s not politically correct, they don’t have a racist bone in their body.

    * there was a Republican activist, never-trumper, on AM Joy a couple weeks ago, who was driven into a near-shouting rage on camera by the mention of white privilege. He was raised in a trailer park, worked two jobs to get through college. The suggestion that someone else might have faced larger obstacles damaged his self-worth.

  131. 131
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    in the middle of nowhere.

    Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository

    The volcanic tuff at Yucca Mountain is appreciably fractured and movement of water through an aquifer below the waste repository is primarily through fractures.[72] While the fractures are usually confined to individual layers of tuff, the faults extend from the planned storage area all the way to the water table 600 to 1,500 ft (180 to 460 m) below the surface.[73] Future water transport from the surface to waste containers is likely to be dominated by fractures. There is evidence that surface water has been transported down through the 700 ft (210 m) of overburden to the exploratory tunnel at Yucca Mountain in less than 50 years.[74][75]

    Some site opponents assert that, after the predicted containment failure of the waste containers, these cracks may provide a route for movement of radioactive waste that dissolves in the water flowing downward from the desert surface.[76] Officials state that the waste containers will be stored in such a way as to minimize or even nearly eliminate this possibility.

    The area around Yucca Mountain received much more rain in the geologic past and the water table was consequently much higher than it is today, though well below the level of the repository.

    Maybe those officials are right. The people who live in the area don’t seem to want to find out, though. Or more precisely, they don’t want their descendants a thousand years from now, to have to find out.

  132. 132
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Betty Cracker: PS: Do you believe Ryan’s claim that he didn’t know he was talking to a reporter when he said that?

    I missed that part. And: No.

  133. 133
    Feathers says:

    @Feathers: Was closing down tabs and noticed that the Warren booth has LGBTQ+ Warren signs in Inclusive Pride, Trans, and Bi flag colors. This is called Doing the Work. Those communities will notice.

    This is another thing that pisses me off about the whole Native American thing. I worked at Harvard. Professors were asked to add themselves to the diverse faculty lists to signals to students that they were open to help students with any issues that they might have. Whatever the reality of Warren’s native heritage, does anyone doubt that she would have done anything in her considerable power to help a Native student who came to her for help?

  134. 134
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    nor am I interested in another round of arguing about nuclear waste

    Fair enough.

  135. 135
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Ken: Oh, he will. Remember how honestly horrified he was to find out during the debates with Hillary that she urinates? “Do you know what she did on break? It’s absolutely disgusting!”

    He is apparently so stupid that his wives have successfully convinced him they don’t use toilets.

  136. 136
    trollhattan says:

    You’re framing that quite oddly. “Normal” can be simply somebody with a relatable background who not only knows how a grocery scanner works, has bought groceries, interviewed for jobs, gone to the high school dance and done the other normal people things. She is the antitheses of the current WH resident who has, with a slight bit of rounding, zero exposure to the real world. You want a compare-and-contrast with Donny, begin there.

  137. 137
    Chyron HR says:

    @J R in WV:

    We will do beautiful clean fracking!

  138. 138
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Chetan Murthy: The thing about methane is, yes, it’s a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, but it also gets naturally removed from the atmosphere much faster than CO2, so it doesn’t have the same potential to alter the radiation balance of the atmosphere for thousands of years. So it’s a problem, but I doubt getting the same amount of energy from coal would have been a smaller problem.

  139. 139
    trollhattan says:

    @Chetan Murthy:
    Yucca Mountain was proposed at a time Nevada had fewer than a million residents and zero say as to whether it could/would be sited there. That time has passed. But those fuckers in Wyoming who send us Liz Cheney had better watch out.

  140. 140
    The Lodger says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Especially not the gold ones.

  141. 141
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Bingo. It’s going to take a long time (maybe forever) for white people to work through the white privilege thing. I remember the first time I encountered the term (many years ago), and my first reaction was embarrassingly similar to the wingnut who appeared on Joy’s show. It sounded like an accusation, and it struck me as an erasure of the poverty and hardship I’d experienced in my life. It took some work on my part to think it through and acknowledge the truth of it. I used to wonder if it might be beneficial to come up with a different term, something that doesn’t raise people’s hackles so quickly. But I’ve since come to believe that learning not to raise your hackles — which is about learning not to center yourself in every discussion of the topic — is an important lesson in its own right and an endless process, IMO.

  142. 142
    trollhattan says:

    @Matt McIrvin:
    However: “As methane rises into the air, it reacts with the hydroxyl radical to create water vapor and carbon dioxide.” So after life as methane, it leaves behind water and yet more CO2.

  143. 143
    Gretchen says:

    @Feathers: Yes. She specifically said that she wanted to signal to kids from places like Oklahoma that she was open to helping them adjust. She was a fish out of water when she moved to New Jersey, and thought she could help. Since Trump never went out of his way to help anyone, such generous impulses can’t be held against him.

  144. 144
    J R in WV says:


    My understanding is that you can simply require environmental protection requirements the frackers cannot meet. Also, require post site cleanup and return to former state, bonds posted for lifetime free clean water for any communities affected by watershed contamination, and so on.

    What you say is correct, in theory. In reality industry owns most environmental protection agencies.

    If they are required to do it correctly, and to be responsible for everything that happens in the future, and fined for releases of methane, etc, etc — probably it would become financially difficult to engage in fracking.

    But in the coal mining industry, they are allowed to “self-bond” for reclamation costs… then they declare bankruptcy and leave their shit hole for ever more. Same for pensions, once the mining stops, pensions and health care funding is over. Just for a couple of examples of extractive industry practices.

    Here in WV O&G inspectors have to be approved by the oil and gas industry to be hired by DEP!

  145. 145
  146. 146
    Jinchi says:

    “any Democrat is going to be tough to beat, Warren included.”

    I think it’s funny that this quote is phrased as though even Warren might be able to beat Trump. As though she is one of the weakest candidates, rather than the one who consistently draws thousands of people to her rallies.

  147. 147
    Steeplejack says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Or it might be one of Trump’s minions doing the posting.

  148. 148
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I live in a city at latitude 54 deg N. Our four-story tenement has a basement and I would LOVE to have a few spent nuclear fuel rods sitting down there providing me and the other people living here with 50kW or so of “free” non-carbon burning heat through the winter. Not going to happen, instead we will burn expensive gas and vent the resulting CO2 into the atmosphere while living with the non-zero chance of a gas leak blowing the entire building out of the ground.

    But Nuclear is Scary!

  149. 149
    J R in WV says:

    @Chyron HR:

    “We will do beautiful clean fracking!”

    Heh… ;-) Sure we will !!!

  150. 150
  151. 151
  152. 152
    laura says:

    @Gretchen: any/everything that holds a mirror up to their face does that. The hurt and anger is their choice to avoid the real work of shame, acknowledgement of privilege and suppprt of reparative justice and deep social change. That’s my belief because the level of hurt and anger is so disproportionate and completely distracts from their total lack of empathy for the suffering of others.

  153. 153
    FlyingToaster says:

    Re: Massachusetts and Senators:

    The law was back during the Romney administration, and the governor can only appoint a temp who serves until the election. Romney was incensed that he couldn’t just appoint some RNC hack to replace Kennedy. He appointed a relatively unknown placeholder, and the MassDems shot themselves in the head in a 4-way primary by choosing Martha “Satanic Panic” Coakley. Who lost in the January Special to Scott “Senator Centerfold” Brown.

    Charlie Baker is barely a Republican (much like Bill Weld), so he’d appoint another unknown placeholder and if we’re lucky, we’ll end up with a Mike Capauno (lost his primary to Ayanna Pressley), Joe Kennedy III or Jim McGovern after the Dem primary. If we’re really lucky, some theocrat like Scott Lively will capture the GOP and sink them beyond recognition.

  154. 154
    Hitlesswonder says:

    @Chetan Murthy: I don’t want to minimize the hazards posed by nuclear waste, but at this point they should probably be measured against the hazards of continued reliance on fossil fuels. Even leaving out climate change, the effects of the pollution from both the extraction and burning of the fuel are considerable.

  155. 155
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Hitlesswonder: I took M4’s suggestion up-thread.

  156. 156
    Chetan Murthy says:


    Charlie Baker is barely a Republican

    Uh, no. He’s a GrOPer in full.

  157. 157
    Steeplejack says:


    Yes! Jesus, can’t believe I forgot that.

  158. 158
    frosty says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    it doesn’t have the same potential to alter the radiation balance of the atmosphere for thousands of years

    True, but it does have the potential to shove us over the tipping point in the very near term where the positive feedback loops take off and don’t stop no matter how we reduce CO2 emissions.

  159. 159
    Barbara says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: . . faced obstacles of the kind that are much more difficult to overcome solely with your own effort. For many non-whites, no matter how hard they work, including working to assimilate, there is someone who views them as lower, incompetent, etc., whether out of need, fear, or just habit. This is something Mr. Two Jobs Trailer Park did not face. Put on a suit and no one would be any the wiser. The society is set up for him to enter, not always on perfectly even, but certainly more welcoming, terms if he wants and does the work.

  160. 160
    rikyrah says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    Warren is too angry??

    Da phuq 😒😡

    Makes no Damn sense.
    I have issues with Warren….her being “angry” just doesn’t make the list….cause it is a phucking lie.

  161. 161
    RAVEN says:

    I rarely say go army!

  162. 162
    Redshift says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, just like I wish the people who came up with “politically incorrect” back in the 80s had just said “don’t be an asshole” instead. I kind of understand what they were going for, but it uses “political” in a way that jargon to most people, and says “we’ve decided what the right answer is and we’re telling you you’re wrong.” Anyone should have been able to see that the term would provoke more backlash on top of what was an unavoidable and probably necessary consequence of the idea itself.

  163. 163
    Steeplejack says:



    By the way, here’s why I hate my alma mater, Mizzou. Got upset by Wyoming last week and just got done kicking the shit out of West Virginia 38-7. No consistency at all.

  164. 164
    debbie says:


    At least, they’re not calling her shrill…at least not yet. //

  165. 165
    Baud says:


    Was politically incorrect ever a lefty phrase? I only remember it as a right wing smear.

    I’ve recently seen a few people discussing whether Medicare for All was a wise label.

  166. 166
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Chetan Murthy: Sinnott is a known misogynist, and just got sanctions filed against him; Baker chose him from the slate of nominees passed by the Governor’s Council, who never gives a fuck about bigotry.

    Baker is a local, who latched onto the Romney campaign. He’s from the “I got mine, fuck you” wing of the Republican Party, and his base is racist exurban whites (AKA the 495 belt). His election was pretty much in reaction to Deval Patrick’s two terms, just ike Trump was in reaction to Obama, by the same asshats for the same reasons.

    Baker avoids Trump and Pence, though alas he does nothing to discourage Pence from shutting down downtown Boston.

  167. 167
    Jay says:

    1. Reid Hoffman exemplifies the "I'm so rich rules don't apply to me." In 2018 Reid was caught funding a "secret experiment" to imitate Russian Tactics run by "information integrity" company New Knowledge AI in Alabama race. GOP or DEMS this type of election meddling is wrong. https://t.co/aRfPx9uWQ7 pic.twitter.com/xIQGHbcple— Nadine van der Velde (@nadinevdVelde) September 7, 2019

  168. 168
    debbie says:


    Most labels suck. They’re limiting and self-defeating.

  169. 169
    Redshift says:

    @Betty Cracker: I agree with your point that learning not to raise your hackles is important, and we shouldn’t be looking for a term that avoids triggering that. I’d like to think there was an alternative that isn’t prone to the immediate “you’re saying I’m privileged!” misinterpretation, but I suspect trying to come up with a descriptive term for something difficult that also avoids unnecessary backlash is a fool’s errand.

  170. 170
    Baud says:


    That’s why I support No Labels. 😁

  171. 171
    Jay says:

    MH17 suspect Tsemakh arrives in Moscow as part of today’s Russia-Ukraine prisoner exchange. His involvement was the key to the entire exchange and serves as a further indication of Russian responsibility for the 2014 attack on the civilian airliner that killed almost 300 https://t.co/baWW2D4OER— Business Ukraine mag (@Biz_Ukraine_Mag) September 7, 2019

  172. 172
    Baud says:


    I suspect trying to come up with a descriptive term for something difficult that also avoids unnecessary backlash is a fool’s errand.

    #AllLivesMatter agrees.

  173. 173
    Jay says:

    From Theranos to the MIT Media Lab: Whistleblowing may not end the game of (abuse/corruption) but can still be a game changer (so let's protect and support them) https://t.co/LLWaqfPjZ6— Gabriella Coleman (@BiellaColeman) September 7, 2019

  174. 174
    CliosFanBoy says:

    @Josie: Right now I am at Warren/Harris for 2020, Harris/? for 2024.

  175. 175
    Baud says:


    You support Warren/Harris but think that ticket will lose?

  176. 176

    On wow. Charlie Pierce just retweeted my tweet and liked it. I am having a fangurl moment.

  177. 177
  178. 178
    Jay says:

    .@PeteButtigieg pushed back against a reporter who says Democrats’ climate change plans will ask Americans to change their diets, asking her to “provide a citation for that” pic.twitter.com/oOTcQVS7Wv— Cheyenne Haslett (@cheyennehaslett) September 7, 2019

  179. 179
    J R in WV says:



    At my shop [by which I mean the shop where I worked on a team] we started on development of all new systems, replacing a COBOL/IMS mainframe with Windows / Oracle systems, that went into production in October. 12/31/99 I had a big New Years Eve party while many shops were watching to see if their Y2K fix worked as planned. Thankfully, they most all did.

    Could have been bad without that huge investment in time and effort spent. We were lucky the techs convinced the managers to invest all that money and work!

  180. 180
    Redshift says:


    Was politically incorrect ever a lefty phrase? I only remember it as a right wing smear.

    Oh, absolutely. I don’t know if it originated with feminists, but that’s where I first encountered it, in college. I was mentioning something a friend had joked about to another friend, and she said “that’s politically incorrect,” and I was like, “huh?”

    As soon as it gained popularity, the backlash became a badge of honor, which is why it has mostly survived only as a negation. It’s hard to imagine a mindset that thought it would change people’s minds instead of glee at being dubbed “incorrect” by humorless scolds.

  181. 181

    @Baud: Let’s see if this copies. <a href="

    This was fun to watchFootball coach shows team they 'can't touch this' https://t.co/V0equOMijO— Dorothy Winsor (@dorothywinsor) September 7, 2019

    “>It’s a video of a football coach who used to do back up for MC Hammer. HIs players found out and made him do the dance. So nothing profound.

  182. 182
    J R in WV says:


    They played a hell of a game, shoulda won. Great effort.

  183. 183
    Baud says:

    @Redshift: Ugh. Feminists. Figures.

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: LOL.

  184. 184
    debbie says:


    When I’ve come face to face with someone scoffing about privilege, I jump in before they can say anything more and suggest they have no idea of its meaning and then give instances where I’ve been accorded privilege (ie, speeding by a traffic cop with no consequences). Heading them off at the pass, so to speak.

  185. 185
    Jay says:

    Internal emails and sources show lab leadership actively directed staff to conceal Epstein's role in the contributions. Epstein was listed only by his initials on the lab director's calendar. Staff took to calling Epstein "Voldemort" or "he who must not be named." pic.twitter.com/1IhTGtvuGa— Ronan Farrow (@RonanFarrow) September 7, 2019

  186. 186
    laura says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) Tweeted:
    Happy happy joy joy https://t.co/FAdD20R4XI https://twitter.com/CharlesPPierce/status/1170419529916305409?s=17
    You go fan gurl!

  187. 187
    Baud says:


    More seriously, I’ll get on (stay on?) my high horse and say that I do think liberals are overly addicted to labels.

  188. 188
    Ra says:

    @J R in WV: I’m glad Ga Tech isn’t running that damn option anymore.

  189. 189
    James E Powell says:


    Was politically incorrect ever a lefty phrase? I only remember it as a right wing smear.

    The very first time I heard the phrase was back in the early 80s from an ardent lefty and it was stated in the positive. She wanted to know if the coffee I was serving her was politically correct, i.e., certified as produced by farmers who were not exploited. Around the same time I heard the phrase in both the positive and negative sense and always from the left angle. Good produced by exploited labor, environmentally horrible processes, or by companies owned by people with horrible politics. Like Chik-Fil-A or Hobby Lobby.

    By the late 90s I only heard the phrase from right-wingers complaining about it or supposed edgy rebel types bragging about it.

  190. 190
    Raven says:

    @Baud: I’m glad Ga Tech isn’t running that damn option anymore.

  191. 191
    J R in WV says:

    Yeah, the MO WV game was pretty disappointing for we WV folk. Lotta points scored. Narrow scrape by James Madison may have been a real bad sign about this season.

    Not the first time…

    My RWNJ bro is in Houston to watch their new coach’s debut…

  192. 192
    zhena gogolia says:


    It’s a Stalinist phrase.

  193. 193
  194. 194
    Baud says:

    @James E Powell:

    Fascinating. Especially because when right wingers co-opted it, they did so mainly to denigrate identity-related issues like race and gender. The actual words make much more sense in their original usage.

  195. 195

    @Baud: I have a label maker, label everything!

  196. 196
    J R in WV says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    But he CAN DANCE… thanks for sharing that.

  197. 197
    Steeplejack says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    A star is born! Yes, link, please.

  198. 198
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Was it actually a label to describe a particular set of beliefs (capitalist, I assume)?


    You know, I have always wanted one. I get scared that they’ll stop making the right size labels for them, however, and then I’ll be stuck with a useless machine.

  199. 199
    Jay says:

    Did Julian Assange knowingly work with Erik Prince to help Roger Stone? Because, um, Erik Prince is a war criminal who got rich by figuring out new ways to kill people, and Assange is supposed to be “anti-war”…. https://t.co/btYMVFfr1T— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) September 7, 2019

  200. 200
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Vaughn Hillyard @ VaughnHillyard
    “This is how we build a movement,” @ewarren after a 2+ minute ovation in New Hampshire. No reception close to this. – at SNHU Arena

    I have a hunch that Dolly Parton really likes that EW is using 9 to 5, even if she’ll never say so out loud

    ETA: ETA: forgot to add the link. for the video

  201. 201

    @J R in WV: He was awesome!

    @Steeplejack: Link at #181. It’ll make you smile.

  202. 202
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @debbie: OTOH it is kind of tough to discuss things with having some lind of shorthand term. If someone has to describe there ideas in multiple paragraphs every time they talk about them rather than saying, for example, “I support a modified medicare for all system,” all discussions will be an Entmoot.

  203. 203
    Steeplejack says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    That’s great! Coach is good.

  204. 204
    Emerald says:

    @Josie: For those on the fence between Harris and Warren: consider the Senate. MA has a Republican governor and he will appoint a Republican if Warren leaves the Senate. Plus, remember Scott Brown. Harris is from one of the bluest states, so no problem there.

  205. 205
    debbie says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Along with cosmopolitan.

  206. 206
    Redshift says:

    @Baud: I agree to some extent, but there are also issues that have gotten a lot more discussion as a result of terms like privilege and Black Lives Matter being promoted, and that didn’t happen previously as result of people just being well intentioned. Naming can be a powerful thing.

  207. 207
    Baud says:

    @Emerald: It’s relevant, but by the time the primary voting starts, I’d imagine that factor will be fairly low down on people’s list when it comes to choosing between the two.

    I hope that’s the choice people will have to make, however. Not liking the structure of the top choices right now.

  208. 208
    Baud says:

    @Redshift: I don’t disagree. But we seem to spend a lot of mental energy debating among ourselves whether various things or people properly fall within this name or that name.

  209. 209
    debbie says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I don’t disagree. In fact, I blame Madison Avenue. Everyone’s become conditioned to remember short and snappy over longer, drawn-out phrases. Add in laziness at not being willing to take more time to formulate a phrase that will really capture what you want to convey, and we get all these things that are easily distorted and dismissed.

  210. 210
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Emerald: Nope.

    Again, Charlie Baker only appoints a placeholder, and the difference now from after Kennedy’s death is that the likely D senatorial candidates aren’t whack jobs. And the likely R candidates are.

  211. 211
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @FlyingToaster: Who knows, it could finally be Jill Stein’s big moment.

  212. 212
    Redshift says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I like Medicare for All a lot as a marketing slogan, and since most people don’t know the details (and since the details will inevitably change in implemention), that works fine.

    My only problem in doing that is that Berners and other True Progressive types have claimed ownership and insist it means their specific concept which must be supported in every perfect detail or you’re not allowed to say it.

    I guess Medicare for America will work just as well as a slogan, and doesn’t have fanatics attached to it.

  213. 213
    Jay says:

    The plain-clothed Immigration Customs and Enforcement agent approached three men in a parked white work van and requested to see IDs without any reported provocation or necessity. Two of the men in the van provided their IDs. However, the third person exercised his right to refuse to show his ID without a judicial warrant. Then the ICE agent fired an unconfirmed number of gunshots at the man who refused to show his ID.


  214. 214
    debbie says:


    The problem with the phrase Medicare for All is that people who already have insurance, like it, and want to keep what they have will get twisted out of shape whenever they hear it.

  215. 215
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Just saw a tweet that the crew who were required to stay at the Trump property in Scotland couldn’t even eat or drink properly because their per diem allowance couldn’t cover the exhorbitant prices at the property

  216. 216
    debbie says:


    Was he a legit ICE agent or a wannabe MAGAt? Was he arrested or did he have his gun taken away?

  217. 217
    Groucho48 says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    A majority of voters in 2016 were fine voting for a women. Are any of them not going to vote for Warren because she’s a woman. Heck, if you add third party votes for Stein, a woman, wouldn’t Clinton have actually won the election?

    So, tell your friend that there are enough voters out there who actually have a history of voting for a female president that Warren (or Harris) should do just fine.

  218. 218
    germy says:

    Hillary Clinton and Elizabeth Warren have kept a line of communication open since Warren decided to run for president, according to several people who spoke to NBC. A person close to Clinton said the contact has been substantial enough to merit attention. https://t.co/QZBJGYB0n4— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) September 7, 2019

  219. 219
    Immanentize says:

    I believe one of the reasons that Joe Kennedy is signalling a run against Markey is to get his face forward for if/when Warren wins. Otherwise, the front towards Markey is ridiculous.

  220. 220
    Jay says:

    Autonomous groups across several states in the southeast have launched a network of hubs + supply lines in order to mobilize disaster relief to communities hit hard by #Dorian2019. Find out how you can support these efforts. @MutualAidRelief @MADDISTRONC https://t.co/123Y3neuZQ— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) September 7, 2019

  221. 221
    Baud says:


    I wouldn’t be surprised if a bunch of candidates (not Bernie) were doing that. Obama too.

  222. 222
    zhena gogolia says:


    No, “politically correct” was a good thing — it was following the “Party line,” which was also a good thing.

    The opposite was such a bad thing that you could end up in Siberia or shot.

  223. 223
    Immanentize says:

    Also, sad but true, a lot of people who just could never imagine or vote for a woman for president have died of old age and bad living the last three years not replaced by similar types.

  224. 224
    zhena gogolia says:


    I prefer Harris. But I don’t get why she isn’t surging in the polls.

  225. 225
    germy says:

    @Baud: A bunch of them are communicating with Clinton and Obama?

  226. 226
    Jay says:


    The same ICE thug who a couple of weeks ago, when an immigrant refused to get out of his car, because the Thugs didn’t have a warrant, smashed in the drivers window with the butt of his gun and attempted to drag the immigrant out of his car.

    The Authorities of course are fine with ICE thugs shooting immigrants at random.

  227. 227
    Baud says:


    I would think so. I’m just guessing though. But I’d imagine both of them would be happy to speak about their experiences to candidates behind the scenes.

  228. 228
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: Klobuchar and I think a couple of others have let it be known that they spoke to Obama before declaring, kind of coyly hinting that he encouraged them to run, but of course the conversation was confidential so…

  229. 229
    germy says:

    @Baud: At the very least, Clinton and Obama can tell them which journalists to trust and which to be wary of.

  230. 230
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Like when Carla Howell [Libertarian] got more votes than Jack E. Robinson [Republican]?

    Right now, there’s a “draft Joe III” movement to get him to primary Markey. Which will not happen. But if SP Warren becomes PP Warren, I’m damn certain that Joe will goe for it. It’s his great-uncle’s seat, and he’d likely clear the field. The most pain-in-the-ass D candidate would be Lynch (gerrymandered district just south of Boston), and he’d lose to Kennedy.

    The only Republican with name recognition and no scandals attached is Charlie Baker himself. All of their other candidates for staewide office the past several cycles have been self-funded (Romney, Baker himself, and everyone but Scott Brown) or theocrats (e.g., Lively). Scott Brown won because he wasn’t Martha Coakley (former AG, famous for over-prosecution and a lying sack of shit, google “Fells River Day Care”), who won the Special Primary with like 30% of the vote. Whenever she ran for AG I wrote in her predecessor’s name; I held my nose and voted for her against Brown, but it did no good out in the 495 belt where they remembered Fells River and the nanny and every other rancid prosecution she was behind.

    Boxborough and Mashpee wan’t vote for Joe Kennedy for Senator, but everybody else will. Baker couln’t beat him.

  231. 231
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Redshift: @debbie: Well, I guess it’s Entmoots then. That should build some real momentum.

    One of my last jobs in the army included writing speeches for my brigade commander. One speech that I was rather proud of in draft form was one to the soldiers in the units that were being mothballed at the end of the Cold War. I kept it short because 1. I generally try to be concise, and 2. I knew the soldiers did not care to stand in the sun listening COL Jefferson for more than five minutes (if they had to be there at all). I had it closing with three sentences each starting with “We go home…” and then describing a major accomplishment. Each sentence had the same rhythm. I thought it would be memorable. The brigade XO read it and told me he really liked it and then proceeded to to tweak the fuck out of it. He completely mangled the end by listing virtually every fucking that the brigade ever did. It was more complete than my recitation of three major accomplishments, but it became long, boring, and completely forgettable.

  232. 232
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @germy: If they have any sense. And both Clintons and Obama should be open to such communication from just about every candidate right now. We don’t know who is ultimately going to get the nomination, so writing off any Democrat is a bad idea.

  233. 233
    Baud says:


    which to be wary of.

    All of them, Katie.

  234. 234
    206inKY says:

    @Emerald: I’m surprised more people aren’t taking into account the loss of Warren’s seat to a Republican appointee. Forget the fillibuster, it doesn’t even matter if we can’t reach 50 seats in the Senate. No chance of confirming judges. Already it’ll be tough to hold Alabama. But the path narrows even further if we lose a Massachusetts seat.

    Confirmation bias makes it easy to avert our eyes! But we’re screwed without the Senate.

    I am hopeful KY will be in play. McGrath is strong, and so is her possible primary opponent Matt Jones, local sports radio icon and author of “Mitch, Please!”

  235. 235
    germy says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I know this has been asked before, but I’m really curious.

    If a Democrat wins the election, will Trump accept the results? Will he start a tweetstorm of accusations, and retweeting every conspiracy theorist he can find?

    I don’t see him accepting defeat graciously. And lame duck Trump between November and January will be someone to watch very closely.

  236. 236
    206inKY says:

    @FlyingToaster: I see I’m wrong about Warren’s Senate seat replacement. Does anyone know how long until the special election?

  237. 237


    All of them, Katie.

    That’s what I was thinking, great minds and all…

  238. 238

    @206inKY: It was 5 months between Ted Kennedy’s passing and the special.

  239. 239
    FlyingToaster says:

    @206inKY: It’s a bit calendar-dependent. The law specifies that the general must be held between 145 and 160 days from the vacancy; the primary must be held 6 weeks before the general. The Prince of Darkness Secretary of the Commonwealth sets the dates, usually 48 hours after the vacancy.

    If Warren won, and waited to resign until the Electors meet in December (which is what I’d do, given the past 20 years), the MassDems would have their candidates ready to go on the date, and Charlie Baker would get to appoint someone who can run but probably shouldn’t. He could always appoint himself, but he’d have to resign as Governor, and there’s little chance he wants to be a back-bencher in DC in a Warren admin. The primaries would be in early March, and the General in late April, avoiding the blizzards.

  240. 240
    J R in WV says:


    Along with cosmopolitan.

    See, I always thought that meant going to both Bob Dylan AND the Symphony concerts… Both Buddy Guy AND Mellissa Etheridge shows. She did a great show, and the crowd was eclectic, if I can’t use cosmopolitan any more…

    When I learned it was a Nazi slur, I was a little shocked. I guess any concept can be twisted towards hate given enough dedicated work and hate.

    OT: Have a new hose nozzle, on a pipe, with valves and a rotating spray pattern selector — have watered ferns and such, it’s only about 82 or 83 outside, really nice. Going to dinner next door, will be swell, they’re great cooks, have a patio with tons of birds around it. Hurray!!

  241. 241
    FlyingToaster says:

    I’m beginning to think that Anne Laurie should put up the front page “Massachusetts Governors Don’t Appoint Senate Replacements” article, there’s so much misinformation about how the Commonwealth (God Save It) works.

  242. 242
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    If a Democrat wins the election, will Trump accept the results? Will he start a tweetstorm of accusations, and retweeting every conspiracy theorist he can find?

    I don’t really care. If a Democrat wins, Trump is gone in January 2021. And no, I do not believe that the military will back a Trump coup. OTOH, I would not be surprised by an increase in “lone wolf”* violence in the short term, but that is better than a Trump win and further mainstreaming of hard right policies and politics

    *Lone wolf, my ass.

  243. 243
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @FlyingToaster: We could probably use something like that about every state.

  244. 244
  245. 245
    J R in WV says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The brigade XO read it and told me he really liked it and then proceeded to to tweak the fuck out of it.

    My first serious IT job, the boss was a nice guy, many years in Tax dept, was once undercover agent working on bootlegging cigs. Long stories about gangs and finding bodies in Ohio corn fields… did good work, but kind of a country guy.

    When I wrote a memo about new system functionality, things like that, he would mark it up with ungrammatical errors. So I would have to produce a new version with enough of his work to pass muster, without errors and bad grammar… so I can relate to your experience with the XO with no sense of rhythm or pacing.

  246. 246
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @J R in WV: It probably wouldn’t have mattered. The CO never read anything beforehand so he would have fucked up the delivery anyway.

  247. 247
    J R in WV says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Sounds familiar, like a currently infamous politician…. who could that be?????

  248. 248
    Brachiator says:

    From Vanity Fair, “GOP Strategists Fear Trump’s “Pocahontas” Thing Isn’t Working”

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

    What a bunch of asswipes. Right wing fools always believe that they control “the narrative.” One of the Democrats big advantages will be avoiding the bullshit of political echo chambers.

  249. 249
    Just One More Canuck says:

    completely off topic, but Bianca Andreescu is about to beat Serena Williams

  250. 250
    zhena gogolia says:

    New thread, anyone?

  251. 251
    Another Scott says:

    @FlyingToaster: Thank you.


  252. 252
    trollhattan says:

    @Just One More Canuck:
    You crazy Canadians!

  253. 253
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @trollhattan: I hope I didn’t jinx her

  254. 254
    Calouste says:

    In Brexit news, Works and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd has resigned from the cabinet and from the Conservative Party, calling Boris Johnson’s sacking of 21 Tory MPs earlier this week “an assault on decency and democracy”.

  255. 255
  256. 256
    RAVEN says:

    @zhena gogolia: Well, if it was back in the day. . .

  257. 257
    Brachiator says:


    In Brexit news, Works and Pensions Secretary Amber Rudd has resigned from the cabinet and from the Conservative Party, calling Boris Johnson’s sacking of 21 Tory MPs earlier this week “an assault on decency and democracy”.

    Holy shit. Rudd is tough. She was Theresa May’s bulldog. Some stumbles may have damaged her chances of being Prime Minister one day.

    Still, the wheels seem to be coming off Boris Johnson’s political wagon.

  258. 258
    zhena gogolia says:


    Who used to do the football threads? Betty? I’d even go for one of those right now!

  259. 259
    Baud says:

    @Just One More Canuck:

    Congrats. You can show your face in Canada again.

  260. 260
    zhena gogolia says:


    But what is Phineas Finn doing?

  261. 261
    arrieve says:

    This thread is probably dead, but I saw Warren at the New Hampshire State Democratic Convention today — along with Biden, Harris, O’Rourke, Castro, Sanders, Booker, Buttigieg, and most of the also-rans. (I went to the bathroom during Delaney, and left before Gabbard, Yang and Williamson.) I expected that the NH crowd would give Bernie a big reception and they did, but it was mild compared to Warren’s — everyone on their feet screaming, chanting, sign-waving. I did not expect that, and I’m not biased just because she hugged me this morning while greeting supporters on her way in.

    (With her husband in her wake carrying boxes of donuts and offering them to the crowd, which was just adorable. )

    It was a really interesting event — each candidate got 10 minutes to say whatever they wanted. They were all good. Booker, Harris, Buttigieg, Warren were really good.

  262. 262
    Raven says:

    @zhena gogolia: She grew tired of the bullshit.

  263. 263
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Baud: She overcame my jinx – wow

  264. 264
  265. 265
    bemused says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    They inherited defective, under-developed humor genes with very low ability to comprehend irony/sarcasm while reacting favorably to infantile, mean “jokes” that demeans others.

  266. 266
    zhena gogolia says:


    Obama shook my hand once — I’ve never gotten over it!

  267. 267
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:


    Geert Wilders @ geertwilderspvv
    Great to meet with US Senator @ LindseyGrahamSC
    in #Cernobbio, #Italy at @ Ambrosetti_ Forum 2019!

  268. 268
    Brachiator says:

    OT. From BBC News

    The Joker, starring Joaquin Phoenix, has taken the top Golden Lion prize at the Venice Film Festival.

    Director Todd Phillips’ film about the comic villain, starring Joaquin Phoenix, is already being tipped for the Oscars.

    Roman Polanski won the Grand Jury Prize for An Officer and a Spy, despite controversy over of its inclusion.

    The director was convicted of statutory rape in 1978 and has faced various other allegations of sexual assault .

    Actually, it’s Joker, not The Joker. The film’s win will rattle comic book nerds, because some people associated with the film go out of their way to say that the film is a “serious, adult film, not a silly film about capes and tights.”

    Polanski’s win is another “purity of art” swipe at supposedly petty middle class conventions about morality. So what if Polanski raped a girl. He’s an artist.

    ETA. Yes, Polanski has made great films. My personal choice, for what it’s worth, is that I will not watch his films until after he has died. Silly, weak, pointless, perhaps.

  269. 269
    Elizabelle says:

    New thread up, by Tom Levenson, about MIT and Epstein contributions. Joichi Ito, Director of MIT’s Media Lab resigned today, following Ronan Farrow’s New Yorker article.

  270. 270
    Fair Economist says:

    @FlyingToaster: That timing means Warren could force her replacement election to happen before or during the Presidential election by retiring around the end of May. So she has an out if she knows she has won it.

  271. 271
    arrieve says:

    @zhena gogolia: I left the arena looking for a restaurant because they’d closed the concession stands and I was starving (and wishing I’d taken one of those donuts this morning) when I saw a crowd of Warren t-shirts in a park and realized it was a selfie line. I was too hungry to stand in line — oh OF COURSE I did, and I got another hug and she told me “We can do this.” Honestly I could happily vote for half of the Dems running, but she is really something special. She is making me love her, dammit. And I’ve tried hard not to think like that to avoid the inevitable disappointments because I don’t think I could go through having my heart broken in 2020.

  272. 272
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Fair Economist: Why would she want to do this?

  273. 273
    zhena gogolia says:


    I’m praying we get a better outcome this time. We have so many people who would be great presidents. (not bernie)

  274. 274
    TS (the original) says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    The NOAA staffer

    It appears to me that the partisan media people sending out the trump propaganda seem to mostly be women. Presumably the men working for trump are covering their ar..s so they aren’t unemployed come 2021. Women are always expendable.

    Cannot think of any reason that a woman would work for him.

  275. 275
    Elizabelle says:

    @arrieve: You were hanging out with our future POTUS this afternoon. Way cool.

    Go Elizabeth go.

    It makes me despise Howard Schultz (clueless Starbucks dude) to realize he was thinking of running to save us from Elizabeth Warren. What a tool.

  276. 276
    Another Scott says:

    @arrieve: I heard part of it on C-Span radio when I was out grocery shopping today. Bits of Harris, bits of Beto, very early bits of Klobuchar. I was hoping to hear Warren, but the timing wasn’t right.

    Thanks for the report!


  277. 277
    Miss Bianca says:

    @arrieve: I am Team Warren all the way.

  278. 278
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @TS (the original): To the best of my knowledge, no one has held a gun to these women’s heads. They have agency and they used it to choose to work for Trump. My sympathy for them is rather limited.

  279. 279
    Brachiator says:

    @TS (the original):

    Cannot think of any reason that a woman would work for him.

    A lot of Republican women are true believers.

  280. 280
    Betty Cracker says:

    @arrieve: Same. Until Obama, every Dem I supported in the primary failed to get the nomination, and I went on to vote for candidates I had serious reservations about. I was used to it. Now I’m spoiled — I want my candidate to WIN, damn it! 🙂 (Team Broken Glass, etc.)

  281. 281
  282. 282
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Miss Bianca: At this point, I am not. I can’t really articulate a reason. Right now, it is about the “feels”* for me, and I am getting them from Harris but not Warren.

    *On paper, she’s got everything one could want a more, and I know that intellectually. But the heart is a funny thing. Also, if she gets the nomination, broken glass won’t even enter into it. I would enthusiastically campaign and vote for her.

  283. 283
    SteverinoCT says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: FWIW when I was doing SSBN refits out of Holy Loch (which is across from the mouth of the River Clyde) the crews used Prestwick Airport when shuttling back and forth to the States (Bradley Airport outside of Hartford, on MAC charter airliners). And as a QM I used Turnberry Point lighthouse as a navaid. Another memory spoiled. Dunoon-Glasgow Int: 25 mi; Dunoon-Prestwick: 44 mi. But that’s not the only consideration, of course.

  284. 284
    NotMax says:


    Trivia: Prestwick airport has been around long enough to redesignate the directional identification numbers used for the main runway, as the magnetic north pole has meandered enough since the runway was built to necessitate the change.

  285. 285
    wv blondie says:

    @Baud: You call it a lie. I call it shorthand – it’s what Warren would prioritize.

  286. 286
    debbie says:


    Better than Heath Ledger? /raised eyebrow/

  287. 287
    Brachiator says:


    Better than Heath Ledger? /raised eyebrow/

    An entirely different take. And of course, there were those who…laughed… when Ledger was cast, proclaiming that no one could match Jack Nicholson.

    I think that in some ways, playing Joker is the American pop culture equivalent to a British actor playing Hamlet. It is something that you have to do.

    Also, if you are a blond male actor, you must do a Gatsby movie.

  288. 288
    debbie says:


    Also, if you are a blond male actor, you must do a Gatsby movie.

    Don’t be giving BoJo any ideas!

  289. 289
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @Feathers: And require those bonds at the federal level. WV has been 💩 on bonds like that regardless of party. The history of WV politicians is that they can always be bought.

  290. 290
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @J R in WV: Oh yeah. That narrow scrape vs JMU was a harbinger. I’m pretty sure Kansas football is licking their collective chops.

  291. 291
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @FlyingToaster: Couldn’t MA pass an AZ-type law mandating a same-party appointment?

  292. 292
    Amir Khalid says:

    Schultz was running to save himself, not the rest of America, from Elizabeth Warren.

  293. 293
    Jiminy's Cricket says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That’s incorrect, she does it all the time. She promises WAY too many ponies. It’s why I don’t trust her. Plans have to be based in some kind of reality. Hers sound like pandering.

  294. 294
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Brachiator: Cesar Romero or GTFO

  295. 295
    Mary Ellen Sandahl says:

    @tomtofa: I think that the Pocahontas thing also overlooks (or as it’s Trump, never knew) the fact that, according to several things I’ve seen about EW’s youth in Oklahoma, family stories about having Native American ancestors are not uncommon amongst “Caucasian” people in the area. You come across it in lots of other places; in fact, if you took, say, 100 randomly chosen American adults from all over the nation, you might find anyway 10 percent of them had similar family stories (that figure is totally a guess). Prof. Henry Louis Gates on his American genealogy series “FindingYour Roots” devoted an episode to these apparently commonplace traditions in African-American families.

Comments are closed.