Monday Morning Open Thread: Rules Lawyers

Most dogs are rules lawyers:

“You told me not to jump in the pool. You *didn’t* tell me not to paddleboard.”
So are most Political Twitter Experts, especially at the ends of the horseshoe…

A feel-good story to start the week:

… King has not received a single contribution this year from a political action committee associated with a sitting member of Congress. Corporate PACs and interest groups have also completely shunned him. Through the first six months of the year, King received just two contributions from third party political entities: $2,000 donations from PACs associated with two former members of Congress, Lamar Smith (R-TX) and the infamous Todd Akin (R-MO)…

King is dealing with that lack of resources as he faces very immediate threats to his incumbency. His 2018 Democratic opponent, former professional baseball player J.D. Scholten, lost by fewer than three points last year, and is making another run for the seat. This time around King also has a formidable Republican primary opponent, state senator Randy Feenstra, who has already scored endorsements from influential Iowans such as evangelical leader Bob Vander Plaats. At the end of July, Feenstra’s campaign committee reported having $337,314.30 cash on hand, compared to King’s $18,000…

Correction: This piece originally stated that individual donations to King were down considerably. In fact, they are roughly on par with previous cycles. The congressman’s financial troubles are due to a drop in corporate and political donations.

But there are still some sane people left in Iowa…

285 replies
  1. 1
    BC in Illinois says:

    Sharknado Seven: The Chosen One vs. The Atlantic Ocean

  2. 2
    NotMax says:

    Shoot. Everyone knows all we have to do is rev up those offshore windmills and blow it back out to sea. //

  3. 3
    montanareddog says:

    “A big, burly meteorologist, with tears in his eyes, said to me, “Sir, thank you for this. I have been trying to get us to nuke hurricanes since forever. Now, we have a president who understands the weather””

  4. 4
    Patricia Kayden says:

    That doggy video is so smile-inducing. Unfortunately I expect Steven to win again regardless of whether or not he’s broke. Wonder when the White Supremacists who he supports will start donating to him. Good luck to his Democratic challenger.

  5. 5
    BC in Illinois says:

    Ending and starting the week:

    Saturday and Sunday I went to the St Louis “Festival of Nations.”

    Food from Columbia, Scotland, and Bhutan. Choice of 48 vendors.
    (The line for Jamaican food was too long.)
    Music from India, Wales, etc.

    When they turned the electricity of the sound system off on Sunday, because of the rain, the German/Czech Brasshaufen brass band kept on playing. (They were under a canopy.)

    I may be awake at 3am because of the food from Columbia, Scotland, and Bhutan.

    And my best discovery, in the rain, was at the Iranian booth.
    Democracy or Demo Crazy

    A book for our times, written in Iran from 2002-2007, but

    The book managed to receive the publishing permit from the ministry of Culture in the year 2008, but as a result of the unstable political situation at that time, the author voluntarily suspended the release of the book. The book was finally released 5 years later in 2013.

    What follows are the titles of some of the fourteen chapters of the book: “Those Who See More, Will Steal More; The King Lives in the Same Neighbourhood as God; Robbery is Bad Except For Sublime Purposes; Ruining is Prerequisite of Development; Having Enemies is Very Fruitful, if You lack One, Make One; etc.”

    It was published in America in 2014, though — as the translator told me — it has application for today.

    I’ll say it does. From Wikipedia, from which all knowledge flows:

    Demo Crazy [the national leader] forms a circle of cohorts and enacts his own Demo Crazian principles which consist of a combination of oppression and deception of the masses. He embarks upon a mission to destroy the country, playing off his actions as a “service” to the people. As it turns out, he is really in fact an enemy agent, who after ultimately fleeing his own country and ta king refuge in enemy lands, surrenders his nation to them.

    The behavior and documented speeches of Demo Crazy are truly astonishing, and even more unusual are the laws and regulations he exercised in ruling over his country. The question of whether or not the standard and conventional democracy in the world today is predicated upon the principles and methods that Demo Crazy carried out in this book is presented only as food for thought and not as a steadfast claim. The answer to this question will be left for the reader to decide

    I’m halfway through.

  6. 6
    BC in Illinois says:

    @BC in Illinois:

    Here it is, on Amazon.

  7. 7
    Elizabelle says:

    @montanareddog: Sir. LOL.

  8. 8
    BC in Illinois says:

    @BC in Illinois:
    The edit function didn’t seem to want to let me add this:
    “ETA: (As you may gather, it is a political satire/fantasy.)”

  9. 9
    Brachiator says:

    On nuking hurricanes, I think that Trump was just listening to the Rolling Stones and got confused.

    I was born in a cross-fire hurricane
    And I howled at the morning driving rain
    But it’s all right now, in fact, it’s a gas
    But it’s all right. I’m Jumpin’ Jack Flash
    It’s a gas, gas, gas

  10. 10
    Baud says:


    And give everyone cancer. No thanks.

  11. 11
    Central Planning says:

    I’m sitting in a hotel in Boston, getting ready to move my daughter in to college today. Tv is on because she will be sleeping for another few hours.

    I came across the World Axe Throwing League. It has to be the most boring thing I’ve ever seen on TV. Two guys throw an axe, a ref goes and looks at where they hit, and yells out the score. It’s been the same score for 2 or 3 rounds. And this is on ESPN.

    I’m not making fun of axe throwing; it might be fun to try and I certainly would given a chance. But a world league dedicated to it? Smh.

  12. 12
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @BC in Illinois: Sounds eerily prophetic. Like “It Can’t Happen Here”.

  13. 13
    Raven says:

    @Central Planning: there is a bar here for that!

  14. 14
    Central Planning says:

    @Raven: it looks like fun to try. I don’t think I could handle the monotony of going on tour though.

  15. 15
    SectionH says:

    @BC in Illinois: I remember the Missouri that Harry Truman grew up in. I basically grew up in St. Louis when it was in 10 largest cities in the country, and then…

    well, it wasn’t as if racism wasn’t always there. But we hung on so hard for long – Gaslight Square anyone? The city had been strangled from well back in the 19th c. – don’t me started on why’s there’s 3million stupid little teeny towns around the actual city….Oh I have stories. And could cheat refer you to the entire history, but fuck it. I got to grow up in a city where the Zoo was free, where the Art Museum was free – and I used to go to Art Museum as a kid (I know, but King Tut’s actual stuff? Yes onna special tour, but it was still free. Kids could just walk in. Yes grown-ups could too… That was MY St. Louis. Never mind the streetcars that ran then. Yeah I’m seeing 70 in few years, but damn, that was my city. City kid who grew up in apartments. Awesome old apartment buildings…

    Don’t get me started about why I like taxes.

    I have a St. Ann story, I have a Ferguson story about the excellent craft beer bar that was there about a year before the shit came down.

    It’s my home town.

  16. 16
    Raven says:

    @Central Planning: It seems stupid to me.

  17. 17
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Central Planning: Come to STL. I don’t know where this shit started but I guess it’s the latest “fun thing to do.”

  18. 18
    Central Planning says:

    @Raven: Yeah. But not as stupid as watching The Wicker Man with Nicholas Cage on HBO.

  19. 19
    Basilisc says:

    – Damn, what a smart dog. Manages to stay on the board, manages to STEER THE BOARD to the white ball, manages to pick up the ball without falling off and manages to disembark. He would be the dog president, if he hadn’t stored some emails on a private server.
    – How long do you think that NOAA web page about nuking hurricanes will stay up? If it’s longer than a week, how long will the NOAA administrator keep his/her job?

  20. 20
    Amir Khalid says:


    And I howled at the morning my Ma in the driving rain

    is how I’ve always heard it.

  21. 21
    Kay says:

    My middle son gave the youngest a car yesterday. From his personal collection. I just told the youngest he can’t take it to school because the plates aren’t good and it’s not insured and he said “that’s ok – it’ll be fine”. Guffaw. He’ll take his chances.
    He won’t, but he WOULD, is the thing :)

  22. 22
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Central Planning:

    Not nearly as stupid as listening to my wingnut sisters praise T and blame everything on Ds and the Clintons.

  23. 23
    Chyron HR says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I thought it was “the driving range”.

  24. 24
  25. 25
    Gvg says:

    Trumps campaign isn’t broke and he has promoted white nationalist multiple times. So we do still have a problem.

  26. 26
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Chyron HR:
    I like the mental image of baby Mick howling in his stroller at a golf course. I’ll allow it.

  27. 27
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄 😄😄

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    That is so cute, Kay.
    The youngest getting a car😎

  29. 29
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Tens of thousands of British citizens born in the US but who left when only a few months or years old risk having their bank accounts in Britain frozen because of intense pressure by US tax authorities on UK banks.

    In one case, a 74-year-old living in Cambridge has been sent increasingly urgent letters from Barclays demanding her American tax identification number, even though she left the US on the RMS Queen Elizabeth in 1947 when she was just 18 months old. She had assumed that her US citizenship had lapsed.

    The pensioner, who did not want her name published, said: “I felt hounded … I didn’t understand US tax law.”

    An increasing number of Britons – many of whom have never spent a day of their working lives in the US – are being chased by their banks, which are insisting that they hand over their American tax identification numbers or risk having their assets frozen. British banks are terrified of huge fines from US regulators if they continue to serve US citizens but fail to share information with the US Internal Revenue Service, the country’s taxation authority.

    But this leaves thousands of so-called accidental Americans, who were born in the US but left as toddlers, in a near-impossible situation. Those born before 1986 were never allocated a tax identification or social security number or warned that they would be liable for US taxes for the rest of their lives.

    The US is the only country in the world besides Eritrea that taxes non-resident citizens on their global income. The 2010 Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (Fatca) requires foreign financial firms with US operations – including UK banks – to report information about US taxpayers to the Internal Revenue Service via HMRC.


    The pensioner in Cambridge told the Guardian she spent £11,300 of her retirement funds to cover the cost of a specialist accountant who helped her obtain a social security number, file five years of back taxes and declare all her assets. The bill also included the cost of her renouncing her citizenship.

    But Amazon paid no taxes on 11.2 billion in profits and even got (iirc) $240+ million back from the Feds. Legally.

  30. 30

    @Patricia Kayden: Check out Philip Roth’s “The Plot Against America.” That is some scary stuff.

  31. 31
    A Ghost To Most says:

    They never mentioned big O, but bitched about the Clintons. Go figure.

    The good news is I no longer toy with the idea of visiting the rest of my family. They are worse.

  32. 32
    Baud says:


    Good morning.

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I’ll never understand the wingnut mind.

  33. 33
    Kay says:

    Dave Weigel
    That was the next part of the answer! I was struck bc “how can a lady stand up to Trump after Hillary lost” is something all the female candidates get

    He’s talking about a clumsy answer (from Warren) to that question, but it’s sad that all the female candidates get that question. From Democrats. They’re traumatized. Nervous WRECKS :)

  34. 34
    debbie says:

    @Mustang Bobby:

    Seconded. And Lindbergh was a hero!

  35. 35
    Baud says:


    Dems should be traumatized. We collectively failed to stand up for our nominee in 2016 and, by extension, failed to defend our country.

  36. 36
    Baud says:


    What was Warren’s answer?

  37. 37

    @A Ghost To Most: The Clintons are their permanent boogie men. It’s bizarre.

    Trump goes after Obama, too aware of the unflattering nature of the contrast between them. But it seems to me most other Rs are too aware he’s popular. Even they like him on some level.

  38. 38
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: the little people must suffer so corporations may be free.

  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    @Central Planning:
    Congratulations to your daughter 🤗

  40. 40
    rikyrah says:

    What utter bullshyt 😠 😠

  41. 41
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: “Corporations are people my friend.”

  42. 42
    mrmoshpotato says:

    There is an actual NOAA page outlining why we don’t bomb hurricanes, and it’s not one line: “Nuclear fallout, you idiots.”

    Here’s another crazy idea. All the ammosexuals should take the fight to the hurricane. Certainly a few Florida and Texas gunhumpers have boats.

    “I’mma go shoot the hurricane in the eye!”

  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    What do you know….
    The plant that used ICE to punish its workers is having a hard time filling those jobs.


  44. 44
  45. 45
    rikyrah says:


    Brian Tyler Cohen (@briantylercohen) Tweeted:
    Obama left him 76 straight months of growth. 76 straight months of growth. He just had to do nothing. That’s it. Just do nothing.

    And he broke it.

  46. 46
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    The Clintons are their permanent boogie men. It’s bizarre.

    As they have been for decades.

  47. 47
    Baud says:


    I don’t mind that quote per se. Our Dem elected officials will need to impose some pain on people to deal with real problems. The problem with Trump is that the pain will never result in long-term gain.

  48. 48
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Where can I find Nestle? I’d like to test their face’s squishiness with my fist.

  49. 49
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @rikyrah: Has the plant offered the jobs to a white boomers from North and South Dakota?

  50. 50
    rikyrah says:

    Jennifer Rubin (@JRubinBlogger) Tweeted:
    If Trump were a relative, you’d long ago have staged an intervention. As a country, we need to stage an intervention on Nov. 3, 2020. If not, bolstered by reelection, Trump will do unimaginable damage to our country and to our democracy.

  51. 51
    Baud says:


    Here’s another crazy idea. All the ammosexuals should take the fight to the hurricane. Certainly a few Florida and Texas gunhumpers have boats.

    So about that.

    Sheriff warns against people ‘shooting’ Irma

  52. 52
    rikyrah says:

    Still hoping that one of the Front Pagers will post about this

    Lauren Weber (@LaurenWeberHP) Tweeted:
    This is the story of how a Miami entrepreneur and his business associates amassed a rural hospital empire — and drove it into the ground, devastating towns across the country. Communities lost more than life-saving medical care and hundreds of good jobs.

  53. 53
    satby says:

    @mrmoshpotato: I noticed that Accuweather has dumbed down their website. Gives less information with bigger graphics to try to disguise that. Our citizenry evidently can’t manage normal weather reporting any more, so having to explain “fallout, bad” doesn’t surprise me.

  54. 54
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: I knew there was a warning. I was incorrectly remembering it being not to shoot tornadoes.

  55. 55
    OzarkHillbilly says:


    Here’s another crazy idea. All the ammosexuals should take the fight to the hurricane. Certainly a few Florida and Texas gunhumpers have boats.

    “I’mma go shoot the hurricane in the eye!”

    It’s been done. A Texan iirc.

  56. 56
    Baud says:


    I was incorrectly remembering it being not to shoot tornadoes.

    Jesus, no. How else would you stop tornados?

  57. 57
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @satby: But why do we have nuclear weapons if we don’t use them? -Dump

  58. 58
    Amir Khalid says:

    I’m not too sure that “Just suck it up” is a message that will resonate favourably with voters, especially those with farms in financial jeopardy.

  59. 59
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: The only way to stop a bad tornado with a gun is a good tornado with a gun.

  60. 60
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: I don’t mind somebody saying that, I mind somebody saying that while imposing it on those who can least afford it (or supporting it in this case) while they themselves will feel very little.

  61. 61
    Baud says:


    Most elected officials will never feel the pain of their decisions. Including the ones doing good things.

  62. 62
    Baud says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    It won’t resonate favourably, but it won’t cost them votes.

  63. 63
    randy khan says:

    What I take from the juxtaposition above is that we shouldn’t nuke hurricanes,, but that Steve King already has nuked his own campaign.

  64. 64
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Amir Khalid: I hereby order you to just suck it up?

  65. 65
    Amir Khalid says:

    That might work.

  66. 66
    bemused says:

    Open thread question for Minnesotans recently renewing driver’s license. MN offers Real ID or enhanced driver’s license and I still haven’t made up my mind between these two options. If I chose the enhanced license, I’d still have to renew in a year when everyone is supposed to have Real ID.

  67. 67
    Kay says:


    She said she wouldn’t let Trump get behind her and get “handsy” at a debate. Implication being “like Clinton did”. The Looming. Although that wasn’t “handsy”, so maybe just babbling.
    They talk a lot and I cut them a little slack for just babbling senselessly every once in a while- still, bad answer. What concerns me more is that Democrats are traumatized. It is going to be a LONG election season. Democrats are hand-wringers on a good day. They will be in full blown panic for this one. Although- they were absolute wrecks after the loss in 2004 and they came back in 2006, so who knows.

  68. 68
    JPL says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: You can’t be a republican is you have empathy. f..kem

  69. 69
    HalfAssedHomesteader says:

    Not to worry. I’m pretty sure the hurricane nukers have moved on to geo-engineering as their new hobby.

  70. 70
    Spanky says:

    ICYMI, the WaPo had a beat sweetener on John “Jack” McCain IV this weekend. Details how he was deployed to Afghanistan as his father was dying, etc.

    He’s now out of the Navy and trying to decide what’s next. Uh. Huh.

    Living in Maryland now, it would not surprise me if he runs for something as a Dem.

  71. 71

    FAKE NEWS, all you guys who are laughing!

    The story by Axios that President Trump wanted to blow up large hurricanes with nuclear weapons prior to reaching shore is ridiculous. I never said this. Just more FAKE NEWS!

  72. 72
    lee says:

    If King was not such a horrible person, this would be a perfect opportunity to ratfuck the GOP. Give him just enough funds to fight off his primary opponent and let the Dem get another chance at him in the general.

  73. 73
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: And how many of them tell you you “Suck it up ya pansies”?

  74. 74
    Kay says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The funnier part is how all the (horrible) people he hired keep leaking bad things about him. They either really dislike their boss or they’re lying or he’s lying. Probably all three with this crew.

    LOW quality. Bottom o the barrel.

  75. 75
    chris says:

    @A Ghost To Most: “Treat your family like other people.” One of the hardest lessons learned in maturity but a lifesaver. I have five siblings two of whom I haven’t spoken to in years; life is much better for it.

  76. 76
    Steeplejack says:


    Taking a break in my pre-trip mania to answer this hot-button question.

    My advice is to get Real ID now, even though it is a fairly big hassle (requires a visit to the DMV and has rather draconian document requirements that might be a hassle for you to get together). But it will be much easier now than in the middle of the stampede that I expect to occur next year when Real ID is required (at least for air travel) and the huge number of fellow citizens who haven’t thought about their driver’s license in years wake up to the problem.

    I renewed my (Virginia) license in January and went with the “regular” one, because I found that the one piece of documentation I didn’t have was something “proving” where I live. With on-line, paperless everything, I didn’t have an “official” document on hand. So I got the regular license (by mail) and have since snagged a document (official letter from Medicare or Social Security, can’t remember which) that I will use when I get Real ID (which I plan to do well in advance of the October 2020 deadline).

    ETA: Even if you decide to get a “regular” license, it is valuable to go through the exercise of seeing what all documents you are going to need later for Real ID. It can be eye-opening.

  77. 77
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @bemused: Do you have an active passport? MA tells me not to pay for Real ID if I have a passport, because I’ll just be able to use it for those purposes when the time comes. If I didn’t have one, I think I’d spring for Real ID to avoid the rush when we need it to fly/access federal services.

  78. 78
    Zzyzx says:

    An enhanced drivers license should be fine according to the sites I’ve read.

  79. 79
    Spanky says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Different requirements for different states? MD sez you can use an active psssport, but it’s still only one of 5 needed to qualify for RID.

  80. 80
    Immanentize says:

    Warning! You cannot use a letter from Social Security as proof of address if you are using your actual Social Security card for proof of ID. No “doubling up” we were told.

    We learned this the hard way when the Immp was getting his permit. He has a passport so just got the regular permit….

    @Matt McIrvin: for folks in States like MA, a passport for travel is fine; but in voter ID states, the Real ID license may be crucial to vote.

  81. 81
    Baud says:


    They talk a lot and I cut them a little slack for just babbling senselessly every once in a while- still, bad answer.

    Agree on all points. Thanks.

  82. 82
    Baud says:


    He didn’t say that though. He said the pain was necessary. We would say the same thing about dealing with climate change. The difference is the underlying substance, not the rhetoric.

  83. 83
    bemused says:


    Enhanced fine for now but would need to have Real ID to fly Oct 2020.

    @Matt McIrvin:

    We were just talking about updating our passports but haven’t done that yet.

  84. 84
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Spanky: I think you might need more docs to *get* the RID, but the passport will serve as a substitute for RID for the things a regular license won’t get you (which is basically air travel and getting into federal buildings).

    Incidentally, if I recall correctly, this is all going to blow up right around 2020 election time and I think the Dems should get out in front of it. It’s not directly Trump’s fault– it’s ultimately a legacy of the GWB administration and post-9/11 security hysteria, and Obama kicked the can down the road. But the authoritarian “papers, please” hassle is very on brand for Trump and not in a way that people will like.

  85. 85
    Steeplejack says:


    Thanks for the tip. When I get back from my trip I’m going to get a paper voter ID card from the Board of Elections, so that should suffice as well.

  86. 86
    bemused says:

    We live just 70 miles from Canadian border but haven’t visited Canada by car in many years. MN Real ID driver’s license is NO for border crossing.

  87. 87
    Zzyzx says:

    @bemused: enhanced ID is considered a separate category and therefore should be ok assuming MN’s apply. I know it works for WA but I’m using my global entry card then.

  88. 88

    @Immanentize: I had trouble proving residency too because my utilities are all included in my monthly fee. I think I took the contract we signed when we moved in.

    My biggest problem was having lost my social security card. I’d had that card since I changed my name when I got married. I had to get a new one at a separate office with very long lines.

  89. 89
  90. 90
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steeplejack: Here in Misery the requirement was for 2 documents proving where I live, I suspect it is the same for you.

    It was a problem for me as only the electric is in my name (I had to go to the co-op for the documentation). I used my voter registration card for my 2nd document. She just took it all and went to work. The shit of it is I looked later and my new drivers license looks just like my old one so I don’t even know if it is a “Real ID”.

    Just googled it: Missouri’s Real ID cards will have gold stars located in the upper right hand of the card, according to the Missouri Department of Revenue .. It does, so I do.

  91. 91
  92. 92
    Cameron says:

    @Matt McIrvin: Isn’t that what the Vote Riders work on? Maybe I’ve got mixed up with another group.

  93. 93
    Zzyzx says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: all of the bills are in my name. I don’t know what my wife is supposed to do if that is a requirement.

  94. 94
    satby says:

    @Matt McIrvin: @bemused: getting the Real ID now is a pain but it will be a nightmare once it’s required. And update the passports too. I’ve used my passport even to fly domestically since the Real ID security kabuki started, it’s just easier.
    It took me three trips to the Indiana DMV to get the RID here, the requirements are so draconian that my proof of residence document, a utility bill, had to be downloaded again since my first one obtained had aged a week past 90 days. Just pure bullshit hoops more designed to suppress voting than to “secure” air travel.

  95. 95
    Raven says:

    @Immanentize: Our university system health care program has launched a “dependent verification” process where you have to submit a marriage license and a tax return with all the numbers blacked out. There are a number of folks either struggling or ignoring it and I worry about what will happen.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    satby says:

    @Zzyzx: put one of them into her name now. Seriously.

  98. 98
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: That makes sense. Obama gave them so little ammunition to work with.

    Either way, all my relatives are batshit crazy, even my sisters. Most of my wife’s relatives as well.

  99. 99
    Baud says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    That makes sense. Obama gave them so little ammunition to work with.

    Huh? There was tan suit. There was feet on the resolute desk. There was terrorist fist bump. There was “you didn’t build that.” It was one scandal after another.

  100. 100
    Steeplejack says:


    Yeah, all the states’ Real ID cards have the star in the corner.

    When I came to Virginia in 2005 I didn’t have a car and I let my Georgia driver’s license expire, and getting a Virginia license from scratch in the post-9/11 world was a truly Orwellian experience. Now I have all sorts of exotic documents (including a certified copy of my birth certificate), which comes in handy for Real ID. A couple of years ago I even got a new copy of my Social Security card, last reported going into a washing machine sometime in the 1970s.

  101. 101

    @Steeplejack: Hey, Steep, how’s the arm?

  102. 102
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Zzyzx: The phone, our only other utility, is in my wife’s name. between that and her voter registration, she should be good. Our main problem is that we live on a rural road and because mail boxes have a rough time of it we have a PO Box in town.

  103. 103
    Steeplejack says:


    Funny story about getting the Social Security card: When I went to the local office to fill out the paperwork, I was suddenly consumed by a fear that all these years I had been remembering my number wrong. I would get no benefits in my dotage, and some guy in Texas would be living large. Irrational sigh of relief when the number checked out.

  104. 104
    satby says:

    @Zzyzx: actually, put bills in both your names. It could save your wife a lot of hassle.

    After my divorce, the gas company in IL wouldn’t change the billing over to my name without my ex’s permission and he had fled the jurisdiction to evade a body attachment for delinquent child support. So, not a cooperative kinda guy. It’s 31 years later, they have the records of me and then later my son paying the bill, but they won’t change the billing without my ex’s permission. I keep telling my kid just to call and say he’s my ex, but we don’t have the last 4 digits of his SS number to confirm. 31 years.
    I’ve never looked forward more to finally obtaining a death certificate.

  105. 105
    Steeplejack says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Pretty good. Not sore, except to the touch, and that not much. Still looks unseemly, but I can be out in public and even around lactating women without causing their milk to curdle. I have to keep it lightly hydrated with Aquaphor, which is not a big deal. At this point it’s just a matter of time to let it heal completely.

    (If I haven’t mentioned it before, the post-op biopsies came back “clean margins,” which is what you always want to hear in the skin cancer game.)

  106. 106

    @Baud: Didn’t Obama wear jeans* in the Oval too?

    *So did St. Ronnie.

  107. 107
    Steeplejack says:

    I’m off to deliver the housecat and all her gear to the friend who’s keeping her while I’m gone. Will check in after an hour or so.

  108. 108
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Steeplejack: I somehow managed to not lose or accidentally destroy my original Social Security card, which is a miracle on the order of the loaves and fishes considering how disorganized I am. I keep it in a Ziploc bag like a holy relic.

  109. 109
    Steeplejack says:


    Here in Misery the requirement was for 2 documents proving where I live [. . .].

    I forgot to add that the Virginia DMV has a very helpful page on their website that guides you through all of the requirements for Real ID and what constitutes acceptable documentation.

  110. 110
    Steeplejack says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I keep it in a Ziploc bag like a holy relic.

    That’s where my new one is, along with all the other docs I had to gather.

  111. 111
    satby says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: hey Bill, I missed the news of all the landlord trouble you were having. Sorry to hear it. Our own MazeDancer has been most helpful in suggesting marketing strategies to me and probably could offer some great suggestions to you too.

  112. 112
    Raven says:

    @Steeplejack: I guess it’s weird that we have all that stuff in a safe deposit box?

  113. 113
    Zzyzx says:

    It looks like WA has no interest in making the regular license real id compatible. I’ll just keep updating our global entry then.

  114. 114

    @Raven: We have a small metal box that’s theoretically fireproof. We lock stuff like our passports in there so it’s easier to get them if we need them.

  115. 115
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steeplejack: We keep ALL that stuff in a safety deposit box at the bank. The one shortcoming of that strategy was brought home when my wife’s Spanish father died on a Saturday and she couldn’t access her passport until Monday, which iirc meant she couldn’t book her plane tickets until then.

    I had to get a new birth certificate some years back, and was dreading it because I was born in Texas City Texas and dawg only new what hoops they were gonna put me thru. Easy peasy, one phone call, answer a few questions, send them the money. I’m pretty sure this was post 9/11.

  116. 116
    rikyrah says:

    Morning to Poco and the tribe 🤗 😻🐢

  117. 117
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Steeplejack: Heh. I have the same feeling of anxiety every time I have to deal with the govt, that somehow someway I have been doing it all wrong all these years and now I’m gonna have to pay for it.

  118. 118
    rikyrah says:

    Sibling love 🤗🤗😍😍

    Too cute for words 😪😪

    THE GREAT ESCAPE: A pair of mischievous toddlers orchestrated a successful escape mission from their cribs in the early morning hours, as Georgie, 3, encouraged Wilder, 2, the whole time, placing a pillow down for a soft landing.

    — ABC News (@ABC) August 26, 2019

  119. 119
  120. 120
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Cameron: Well, it’s specifically getting people whatever ID they need to vote, whether or not that is Real ID.

    But, yeah, I think it’s possible we may not be prepared for just how bad voter ID restrictions are going to be in 2020. It could be that nearly the entire eligible population is going to be disenfranchised in some states.

  121. 121
    Sab says:

    @rikyrah: We did that when I was three. Then we ate a bottle of baby asprin.

  122. 122

    @satby: Thanks, I’ll keep that in mind. I’m setting up a Patreon for those that want to support my work but don’t want to buy something physical.

  123. 123
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: A lot of states outsourced their certificate service to Lexis/Nexis, a subsidiary of goddamn El$evier Publishing. It’s not hard to order your documentation online but you’ll pay through the nose.

  124. 124
  125. 125
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @rikyrah: Linky no workee, but I gotta say, Sheeeeeit. That ain’t nothin’. I got arrested when I was 2.

  126. 126
    Chyron HR says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The story by FAKE NEWS MEDIA that President Trump is morbidly obese and has a mental disorder that makes me refer to himself in the third person is FAKE NEWS! I am virile and have a normal human penis. Just more FAKE NEWS!

  127. 127
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: It’s useful to keep a scanned copy of your passport somewhere that’s always accessible – on your phone, on a flash drive attached to your car keys, in the “cloud.” We have ours in multiple places. Last year in Norway when I thought I’d lost my passport and contacted the US Embassy for an appointment to get an emergency replacement, having a scanned copy handy was very useful (the next day the original passport was retrieved, so I didn’t have to go through the hassle.)

    Oh, and with always-current passports and valid Global Entry cards, we don’t worry about Real ID.

  128. 128
    chris says:

    A video recipe. Going in the “Damn! I’d eat that and screw the calories!” file.

  129. 129
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Landlord problems?

  130. 130
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @chris: That’s been making the rounds the last several days – I’ve received it at least twice.

    I boldly predict nobody will ever make that again.

  131. 131

    @OzarkHillbilly: They raised my rent(for a total of a 28.3% increase in the past 2 years), plus because the previous landlord never increased the security deposit when he raised the rent, they raised that to equal the new rent.

  132. 132
    Kay says:


    Our university system health care program has launched a “dependent verification” process where you have to submit a marriage license and a tax return with all the numbers blacked out. There are a number of folks either struggling or ignoring it and I worry about what will happen.

    They’re all doing it and a lot of people have no idea what it’s about, nor will they be complying anytime soon.

    Because health insurance wasn’t a PIA enough- they had to add another hoop.

  133. 133
    Quiltingfool says:

    I just applied for my Missouri Real ID – took two tries. I didn’t take my marriage certificate the first time, because I stupidly thought my SocSec card (with the name different than birth certificate) would be okay. Why? When you apply for a new SocSec card requesting a name change you MUST submit original documentation – court order, divorce decree, marriage certificate, well you get the picture. So, in my mind, that name on that card had been verified by the Feds! Oh, no, not in Missouri. So, I get the marriage certificate, go back and then I wasn’t sure if my birth certificate would be accepted because it didn’t have a “proper” number. I was born at Fort Dix NJ – an Army Base. I was thinking at the time, “How the Hell am I gonna fix this?” It turned out okay, some other clerk pointed out a number that could be used. As far as address verification, some utilities have my name, some my husband’s name. Bottom line, this may be a difficult situation for folks. I’m lucky because I keep all my documents, but others may have lost theirs, etc. Welcome to the “Papers, Please” America.

  134. 134
    Betty says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: And in the meantime, Apple and the other big guys relocate their headquarters outside the US and don’t pay US taxes. Tell me again how corporations are persons and are entitled to freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc. And people like Manafort launder millions for years and only get busted because of Trump.

  135. 135
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: @A Ghost To Most: Great Googly Moogly’s ghost, Ghost!



  136. 136
    satby says:

    @Kay: and think of all the possibilities of identity theft when those databases are inevitably hacked.

  137. 137

    @Betty: I rarely defend Apple, but they just built a huge new HQ building in Cupertino.

  138. 138
    mrmoshpotato says:


    Didn’t Obama wear jeans* in the Oval too?


    No more need for atomic bombs in hurricanes.

    Drop me in. My head’s about to go nuclear.

  139. 139
  140. 140

    @satby: I know this may not be a popular opinion with some here, but if the feds want an ID, they should create and maintain their own damn ID. A driver’s license is a license to operate a motor vehicle.

  141. 141
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Steeplejack: Damn, I just pulled out my CO driver’s license and what do you know? Gold star in the corner! I had never even really noticed it before.

    And I did my license renewal all online – no ID requirements.

    Guess I live in a sensible state that has little interest in voter suppression (I also have it on goodish authority that we have the most secure elections in the nation.)

    @Betty Cracker: My original SS card with my childish scrawl is…somewhere around. It has a habit of disappearing and then re-appearing. I’ll have to make a more concerted search for it somewhere down the road.

  142. 142
    Sab says:

    @chris: Connie Schultz retweeted that recipe video with the comment that it involves more labor than childbirth.

  143. 143
    Cheryl from Maryland says:

    @bemused: This may not happen in Minnesota, but here in Maryland, when my husband went to get his real ID (which in this state is mandatory), they didn’t just review documents such as bank statements, utility bills, credit card bills, etc., they scanned them. We managed to pull back any documents which had account numbers and other information not already on file with the state and/or public information and blackout the private information before scanning. The clerk could not answer who controlled the database or who had access to it but was okay with us blacking out account numbers.

  144. 144
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Sucks to be you. Not a whole lot of options either, I’d bet.

  145. 145

    @mrmoshpotato: IIRC the pic of St. Ronnie had him wearing jeans with cowboy boots propped up on the desk.

  146. 146
    chris says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Just show’em your NRA card!

  147. 147
    Spanky says:

    @Quiltingfool: There is no “The Feds”. I was denied TSA Pre-check because the drone thought my replacement birth certificate was not sufficiently embossed.

    I have had a TS/SCI clearance for over 20 years.

  148. 148
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Not accessible by public transit.

  149. 149
    Kathleen says:

    @Baud: Thank you for that. I hadn’t looked at it that way and the truth you stated saddens and angers me even more. But you are right. I don’t think we had Obama’s back enough either.

  150. 150
    chris says:

    @Gin & Tonic: @Sab: Haha! Maybe I’ll put it in the “If someone else makes it.” subfile.

  151. 151
    Spanky says:

    @mrmoshpotato: “Nucular”, if you’re serious about imitating a wingnut.

  152. 152
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @rikyrah: Thanky. I can use some cuteness this morning.

  153. 153

    @OzarkHillbilly: There are a good number of rentals, some cheaper; however that number drops about 95% when you add pets. After my last post for “On the Road”, I had a number of orders from my fellow Juicers* and I’ll probably be able to squeak by.

    *Thank you all.

  154. 154
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Sab: Oh, man, the baby aspirin thing…you are giving me flashbacks to a *very* unpleasant interval in my childhood.

  155. 155
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I did NOT say that. My wife stole my nym and typed that in.

  156. 156
    Spanky says:

    @Miss Bianca: Same here in MD. My DL has had the gold star for a couple of years. But THIS year I was told that they didn’t have documentation on file and that I was to make an appointment at the DMV to present it. Then went through the dog and pony show Cheryl from MD described above.

    So you still may (and probably will, since the feds are driving the states to do this) get a notice from your state to SHOW DOCUMENTATION.

    I for one do NOT welcome our Big Brother overlords.

  157. 157
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @rikyrah: They’re bustin’ out, ya see?

  158. 158
    Miss Bianca says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m with you on this one. And Social Security numbers were also only supposed to be for SS, and yet…here we are.

  159. 159
    Aleta says:

    rites of passage:
    older sib passes down a car (a bike/a phone)
    testing the “that’s ok – it’ll be fine” hypothesis

    💛 these stories of yours

  160. 160

    @Miss Bianca: Yup, just do a federal card and make it part of the law to make it valid for voting.

  161. 161
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: And cowboy boots?! Please stop. I can’t take it! :)

    P.S. Yeeeeehaw!

  162. 162
    zhena gogolia says:


    Did you say you have a patreon page?

  163. 163
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Spanky: My head about to have a case of nuculosus!

  164. 164
    mrmoshpotato says:


    Yup, just do a federal card and make it part of the law to make it valid for voting.

    Narrator: Little did Bill know, that’s not how Rethuglican voter suppression works.

  165. 165
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: A common federal ID is EVIL MARK OF THE BEAST, but requiring a special state ID that requires jumping through 53 hoops and satisfying some good ol’ boys to vote or function in society is just common sense. Also, any horrible DMV experience you may have as a result is another reason to defund government and make everything even worse. Especially federal government, because LOOK OVER THERE

  166. 166

    @zhena gogolia: I’m in the process of setting it up, I should have it ready in a few days.

  167. 167
    hueyplong says:

    Has the mega cat found a home yet?

  168. 168

    @Matt McIrvin: Wait, I thought Republicans were against UNFUNDED FEDERAL MANDATES. Now I’m confused again.

  169. 169
    trollhattan says:

    I could watch that doggie pool video a dozen times. Smart boy! Problem-solving boy. And yet, now somebody needs to THROW THAT BALL.

  170. 170
    rikyrah says:


    @satby: I know this may not be a popular opinion with some here, but if the feds want an ID, they should create and maintain their own damn ID.

    Not only that, but, it should be free, like a SS Card is, and be able to be used as ID for Voter ID in every damn state. Period. Renewable, like a passport, every 10 years

  171. 171
  172. 172
    Shana says:

    @Central Planning: My daughter tells me there are also Cornhole leagues.

  173. 173
    rikyrah says:


    I’m sure that it will, but, I’m hoping that the traffic to the shelter website will make sure that other animals get homes :)

  174. 174
    trollhattan says:

    Would not have believed it but there it was, on one of the eleventy ESPNs, wrapping up prior to a sportsball game. Matching uniforms, corporate sponsor patches, dudebros high-fiving, audience pretending to be entertained.

    Pro Cornhole. Or is it Pro Corn Hole–PCH? “Not just a highway.”

    Proving sports is always better with an accent, I’ve actually stopped to watch pro darts and snooker, because Brits.

  175. 175
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Shana: OK, maybe it’s just a function of my age, but “Cornhole” to me implies something completely different than some sort of team sport and NO I AM NOT GOING TO GOOGLE IT, thank you.

    Suffice it to say that I am now thoroughly boggled by the notion of a “Cornhole League”.

  176. 176
    Steeplejack says:


    Reminds me of the very on-point joke from (I think) Dodgeball: “ESPN-8: If it’s almost a sport, it’s on the Ocho!”

  177. 177
    Steeplejack says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Exactly! Thank you for saying it but not saying it.

  178. 178
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Shana @trollhattan: True story: I was a member of the North Captiva Island Cornhole Championship Team in 2017. It wasn’t an official league. There was no media coverage. We lacked sponsors. The championship game took place in the courtyard of a bar, with only a handful of drunks as spectators. But for that brief, shining moment, we were the best damned cornhole players North Captiva Island had ever seen!

  179. 179
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Steeplejack: Makes me want to rewatch Dodgeball.

  180. 180

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, was thinking the same thing.

  181. 181
    Shana says:

    @Zzyzx: I suggest changing the bills to add her name. Should be fairly easy to do.

  182. 182
    hueyplong says:

    @rikyrah: Thanks. We got a cat at a shelter two weeks ago. This AM we dropped him off at vet to be fixed and just found out the little guy’s heart stopped after the procedure and he could not be revived.

    Spousal unit is inconsolable and telling our daughter this PM is going to be a sad experience.

    Insane to go get the giant, and maybe I’m not thinking clearly/intelligently right now.

    One thing I do know is that two weeks is more than enough time to fall in love with a pet.

  183. 183
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Miss Bianca: We must be of a similar age, then. Made for a bit of an awkward moment when I first heard the term from my son-in-law.

  184. 184
    Steeplejack says:


    It’s a running joke with my brother and me. When we can’t find some sporting event on TV that we think is important, then, well, “I guess it’s on the Ocho.”

  185. 185
    zhena gogolia says:


    Oh, that is heartbreaking! I hope you can adopt again soon, but that is so traumatic.

    I’ve been working up to adopting again after our two died within a week of each other, two and a half years ago. Somehow it hasn’t happened yet. I keep thinking something serendipitous will make it happen.

  186. 186
  187. 187
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Betty Cracker: Cornhole: the sport for people too drunk to be trusted with horseshoes.

  188. 188
    zhena gogolia says:


    The shelter where the big cat is also tweeted out a cat named Pandora who’s been waiting 225 days or something like that. Very cute.

  189. 189
    Betty Cracker says:

    @hueyplong: How terrible and unexpected! Deepest condolences to you, the spouse and daughter.

  190. 190
    Sloane Ranger says:

    Here, across the Pond, BBC Radio 2 was interviewing some guy who’s involved in the World Gravy Wrestling Championship which is apparently taking place today (it’s a holiday weekend here, August Bank Holiday). He was full of interesting facts, including the amount of gravy that will have been used by the Final bout.

  191. 191
  192. 192

    @zhena gogolia:

    I keep thinking something serendipitous will make it happen.

    My step-daughter went to Chicago last week for a few days, came back to find a kitten under the hood of her car. Looks like she has a cat* now.

    *Even though she’s mildly allergic to cat hair.

  193. 193
    Betty Cracker says:

    @A Ghost To Most: I wonder if that’s how it got its start. “We’ve got to stop giving those drunks heavy, dangerous horseshoes to throw! Toss this little sack of corn instead!”

  194. 194
    Ruckus says:

    My first reaction was that they had no number. No one gave me one when I was born. Yes I’ve had one since I was 13 but that was because I had to ask for it. I also seem to recall that people got upset when you started getting a SS number at birth, that you could now be tracked and that wasn’t a free society. But the worst is your bit about Amazon. A corp seems by USSC to have the rights of a person and a citizen person has to pay taxes on foreign income why shouldn’t Amazon? This whole concept of corps and wealthy folks being able to have rules made especially for them to become even wealthier at our expense, is to me one of the worst. I told here of my accountant telling that I wouldn’t have to pay any corp taxes but it would cost me more to defend the return than I’d save is exactly why Amazon didn’t pay anything. If I was getting out of paying 11+ billion in taxes it would have been easily worth it but a few thousand wasn’t. The exceptions to the law shouldn’t exist because they are specialty overrides that not everyone can reasonably follow. I wonder if Amazon even got audited, my accountant told me I 100% would.

  195. 195
    Betty Cracker says:

    @zhena gogolia: Awwww! I’d love to know the backstory behind the alternate name “Nancy Wheeler.” If I adopted her, I’d go with that one. :)

  196. 196
    zhena gogolia says:


    That’s the kind of thing that’s always happened to me.

    Once (I already had four cats at the time) my ex-husband (husband at the time) got a call from our young niece, down the block at her mother’s. He said he had to go help her out. When he got back, he had a tuxedo cat in his shirt (and lots of scratches on his chest). The niece found him but they couldn’t adopt him because they had an elderly kitty who would brook no companions. He became Spanky and was one of the greatest cats I ever knew.

  197. 197
    trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Nobody can ever take that away from you. “North Captiva, represent!”

  198. 198
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Yes, it sounds like some Founding Father’s mother or something.

  199. 199
    trollhattan says:

    That’s profoundly sad. Poor little guy, so sorry for you all!

  200. 200
    Immanentize says:

    @Miss Bianca: @Steeplejack:
    I believe the origins of BOTH meanings come from the fresh air farm living where there is little to do for amusement.

  201. 201
    Ruckus says:

    Wingnuts don’t understand the wingnut mind. It’s not understandable it is illogical and twisted. A wingnut mind is the mobius strip of minds.

  202. 202
    Miss Bianca says:

    @hueyplong: Oh, that is heartbreaking! So sorry for your loss.

  203. 203
    Miss Bianca says:

    @zhena gogolia: Oh, so cute! I love torties and calicos. How has no one scooped this little one up?

  204. 204
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Betty Cracker: Even my cousin, an ace horseshoer, was known to toss a flyer on occasion after heavy drinking, which is always.

  205. 205
    hueyplong says:

    Thanks to all. We live in NC and there are lots of needy animals here. As I said, not thinking too clearly today.

    Prior cats were cellmates at Atlanta humane society who lived to ages of 14 and 17, so we are kind of blind sided by today’s event.

    Cute little guy’s heart stops for no reason, while a hateful pig’s runs right along, just to spite humanity.

  206. 206
    Immanentize says:

    @hueyplong: Poor Kitty. Poor you and yours. It’s such a routine procedure, that no one could anticipate trouble. Man, good luck tonight….

  207. 207
    trollhattan says:

    Making it worse, Cheney motors along still and somebody had to die for that to happen. Life’s not fair and at this point, ain’t even trying.

  208. 208
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    A recurring bit on the old time radio show Vic and Sade was Vic returning home “after a rousing game of indoor horseshoes in Ike Kneesuffer’s basement.”

    While on the subject of the program, a favored nighttime pastime of their adopted son and his high school buddies was to head over to the YMCA “to watch the fat men play handball.”


  209. 209
    bemused says:

    @Cheryl from Maryland:

    Good thought. I had planned to call local license bureau with questions.

  210. 210
    bemused says:


    So sad for all of you. We adopted a kitten in June and were definitely in love with him in two days when he became acclimated.

  211. 211
    NotMax says:


    Has “beanbag toss” been abandoned as a name for being too scarily Mexican? What’s next, re-dubbing tacos as freedom shells?

    Corn or beans, damned nigh impossible (compared to horseshoes) to get a ringer.


    @Miss Bianca

    Yup, yup and thrice yup.

  212. 212
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Or, ::shudder::, O having the gall to wear a tan suit.

  213. 213
    Ruckus says:

    Another funny story about SS number. At the VA they use your last name and last four of your social as an initial id to look you up on the computer. In the LA system there are two of us with the same last name and same last 4 digits. If you think about how many digits there are in the social though it makes sense that overlaps like this can happen. There are 9 digits in the social but they aren’t just a number the 3 sections have meaning, section of the country born in, etc.

  214. 214
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax: We called it bean bag when I was growing up in upstate NY. Corn was too much work to dry and kernel, etc. to make games out of it.

    I think we should start once again making JARTS! and distribute to all christian academies that are racially exclusive. Anyone willing to fund this effort?

  215. 215
    Ruckus says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    I have mine after almost 60 yrs. I broke the first commandment in SS rules, I laminated mine. I had to got to a SS office last year, only the second time since I got the card. The guy looked at my card, looked at me, I could see he wanted to say something but didn’t bother. The first time I went was to start actual getting SS and the person didn’t even give the card a second look.

  216. 216
    Steeplejack says:


    Yeah, I got mine when I was 12 or 13, in Texas. Not where I was born.

  217. 217
    A Ghost To Most says:

    A weird offshoot to the cornhole/horseshoes/drunks vein: in my brother’s gun room (yes, a whole bedroom), among his many wingnut treasures, he keeps a set of lawn darts, simply because they were banned.
    When they get really shit-faced, he gets them out for a rousing game of “one-belt loop away from Sunday night’s news.”

  218. 218
    satby says:

    @hueyplong: so sorry! What a shock to you and your family. Condolences, two weeks is plenty of time to form that bond.

  219. 219
  220. 220
    NotMax says:

    Closed caption funnies.

    Dialogue: We’re going to the abandoned metal works

    CC: We’re going to the bed and metal works.

  221. 221
    Shana says:

    @Sloane Ranger: Is that like mud wrestling but with gravy? Ewww.

  222. 222
    bemused says:

    I called the nearest MN license bureau and think I got all my Real ID questions answered by a very efficient clerk.
    Documents required:
    Birth certificate.
    SS card, paper, not laminated.
    2 proofs of residency:
    Utility bill, most recent, personal account info can be blacked out.
    Marriage license. If your name on SS card changed when married.
    Cost $35.
    Receive Real ID license in 4 to 6 weeks.
    If flying before receiving license, bring your paper copy which will have your photo and your old license.

  223. 223
    NotMax says:


    So old that have had two social security numbers. When had to get a replacement card many, many, many years ago, they assigned me a new number,

  224. 224
    rikyrah says:


    ” If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.”


  225. 225
    rikyrah says:

    So sorry for your loss :(

  226. 226
    NotMax says:


    No option other than getting real ID at DMV here. Royal PITA to get a birth certificate from NY as the first name is blank on mine. Only ancient copy I at first had (so ancient it’s a Xerox from the time when those copies were printed in negative) has a rubber stamped notation on the back that a first name had been given a month after birth.

    All sorts of asterisks and notations about that on the “certified” new copy.

  227. 227
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @Shana: As far as I can tell from the description, yes. I had the same reaction. NOT the topic I wanted to wake up to this morning.

  228. 228
    Immanentize says:

    Is Yarrow here? Keeping track — Sean Duffy (R) Wisconsin 7th just announced he will resign from Congress in three weeks due to a “family matter.” It seems his about-to-be-born baby has some serious health issues, which is really hard. Even if it is their ninth child.

    Still, another seat comes up for graps.

  229. 229
    Brachiator says:


    I told here of my accountant telling that I wouldn’t have to pay any corp taxes but it would cost me more to defend the return than I’d save is exactly why Amazon didn’t pay anything. If I was getting out of paying 11+ billion in taxes it would have been easily worth it but a few thousand wasn’t.

    I have noted before that I tend not to believe your accountant. And I throw in the obvious caution that I do not know all the facts and circumstances.

    Also, lay people falsely assume that wealthy corporations always have fancy tricks that their accountants use that are not available to regular people. This is not always the case.

    Amazon is a big company, will lots of parts that have to be brought together when they do their taxes. But they might still be applying some fairly simple tax and accounting rules to get their tax breaks. There are companies that take complicated, dodgy legal positions, but that’s another story.

    Back when video rentals were first a thing, some major companies took an extremely aggressive position on depreciating video tapes. When the IRS got around to reviewing the situation and issuing a regulation that limited this method of depreciation, some companies took a huge hit and there was nothing fancy lawyers or accountants could do about it. A friend was considering buying stock of one of these companies and their annual report had to note pending IRS scrutiny. I had read the report, knew about the IRS review, and suggested that my friend skip this company.

    Anyway, companies like Amazon may be helped by huge net operating losses from prior years and by the elimination of the corporate alternative minimum tax, part of Trump’s new tax law. And here big companies may benefit from a trick not available to the little guy. They have people deliver big bags of money to the right politicians, who then write laws favorable to corporations.

    It’s easier to write the law than to fight it. Guaranteed win.

  230. 230


    Even if it is their ninth child.

    Yikes! That poor woman.

  231. 231
    bemused says:


    We’ve lived in the same area all of our lives plus lived in same home since we married so basically zero changes in our documents we’ve saved makes it about as easy as it gets. I can see how much of a PIA it can be to get the documents for so many people.

  232. 232
    joel hanes says:

    evangelical leader Bob Vander Plaats

    As an expatriate Iowan, I recommend that you spit every time you encounter this name — “religious” bigot Vander Plaats is essentially American Taliban, and was instrumental in Iowa’s 10-point swing from Obama to Trump.

  233. 233
    NotMax says:

    Tales of the NY trip.

    For various reasons, needed to go way out into the wilds of Suffolk County on Long Island (several times) to take care of some things. Decided to stop at a very well-reviewed take-out only seafood hole-in-the-wall place there to pick up something for din-din. Everything cooked to order. Opted for the $25 “small” steamer platter.

    Near to a dozen crab legs, over a dozen jumbo shrimp, half a dozen large clams, some mussels, lots of delish sliced sausage and two half ears of corn on the cob.

  234. 234
    frosty says:

    @Zzyzx: LOL. All the bills are in my wife’s name. I guess we can change one of the accounts.

  235. 235
    Quinerly says:

    @rikyrah: right back at you!

  236. 236
    rikyrah says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    The shelter where the big cat is also tweeted out a cat named Pandora who’s been waiting 225 days or something like that. Very cute.

    Pandora did look adorable. I hope that someone sweeps her right out of there.

  237. 237
    NotMax says:


    Speaking of the NY trip, really must get around to unpacking the last suitcase. Clothing should be acclimated back to HI by now.

    Maybe tomorrow.


    /guilty admission of indolence

  238. 238
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @NotMax: Nobody plays handball anymore. A shame.

  239. 239
    Brachiator says:

    OT. Loving the reactions to Obama’s summer music playlist.

    Barack Obama’s summer playlist made the rounds this weekend, and many of the artists whose songs are featured on it immediately took to social media to react to the nod from the former president.   

    “WE’RE FRIENDS NOW I DONT MAKE THE RULES!!!” announced Lizzo, who had just tweeted about Obama an hour before he released his new playlist. “STREAM JUICE!!! OBAMA’S 6# FAVORITE SONG RN.”  

    I can’t imagine Trump being in touch with pop culture or being kind and generous to anyone not named Donald Trump.

  240. 240
    Ruckus says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Which if I recall correctly Apple provides for their a lot of their employees because public transit isn’t available.

  241. 241
    WhatsMyNym says:


    In one case, a 74-year-old living in Cambridge has been sent increasingly urgent letters from Barclays demanding her American tax identification number, even though she left the US on the RMS Queen Elizabeth in 1947 when she was just 18 months old. She had assumed that her US citizenship had lapsed.

    That’s an odd interpretation from the IRS. It wasn’t until 1967 that the US Supreme Court struck down most laws forbidding dual citizenship. I even had friends in school who had been told by government that they would have to choose which citizenship they were going tp keep when turned they 18; and that was not long after the ’67 ruling.

  242. 242
    AliceBlue says:

    @joel hanes: I’m familiar with the name–it seems like that guy’s been around forever.

  243. 243
    Ruckus says:


    Life’s not fair and at this point, ain’t even trying.

    Never has been and never will be.

    Why should drumpy inherit $40+million from his slumlord dad who didn’t add to the world but subtracted from it? Or…. there are any number of examples of people getting screwed or rewarded for absolutely no valid reason or against all reason. Never has been and never will be.

  244. 244
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: Tortillas will become Freedom Flatbread.

  245. 245
    noname says:

    @hueyplong: Oh no. Two weeks is more than enough time to fall in love and to make happy plans for a future that will now not come to pass. Take some comfort in the fact that he passed away knowing he had a loving family that had rescued him from shelter life. Take time to grieve and then find another needy furry soul.

  246. 246
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: All that for $25? Sounds like a damn good deal. Also…..mmmmmmmm.

  247. 247

    @Gin & Tonic: There appear to be 3 bus routes that service the Apple Space Circle(at least the roads around it). Though it’s still a pretty good walk from the street to the rather massive building.

  248. 248
    TenguPhule says:


    Here’s another crazy idea. All the ammosexuals should take the fight to the hurricane.

    Too late. People already do shoot at hurricanes to try and stop them in the USA. They’ve been caught on camera.

  249. 249
    germy says:

    This photo!

    Good luck to all the college students heading back to class this week. You’ve got this! Know I’m fighting for you all the way—from canceling student loan debt to making public college and technical schools free. (PS: Yep, that’s me as a college freshman in a dress I made myself).— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) August 26, 2019

  250. 250
    mrmoshpotato says:

    If you think David Koch was a good person because he gave money to the arts and other charitable causes, I have a bridge to steal from you, and I promise to donate a fraction of what I make from reselling it to the Foundation for the Bridgeless.— Anand Giridharadas (@AnandWrites) August 25, 2019

  251. 251
    Immanentize says:

    @germy: That is so great — but the comments are just so mean!

  252. 252
    joel hanes says:


    Apple runs a fleet of dedicated shuttles to all its major South Bay sites, connecting to BART, light rail, peninsula CalTrain, and direct to transit centers in San Francisco and the East Bay. The newer Apple campuses are all designed to facilitate transit.

  253. 253
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Immanentize: I assume the state GOP is busy recruiting another MTV cast member to run?

  254. 254
    Kelly says:

    @rikyrah: When my youngest sister was 2 she walked about a dozen blocks to the grocery store and helped herself to the candy shelf. It was a small town, the clerks recognized her and called my Mom just as the where’s the baby panic was setting in.

  255. 255
    TenguPhule says:

    And I see Wall Street is still too stupid to live.

    They’re buying up stocks on optimism that Trump is telling the truth about working toward a serious trade agreement with China.

    Tell me if you’ve heard this one before.

    Donald Trump, facing pressure to scale back a U.S.-China trade war contributing to a global economic slowdown, claimed today that serious talks will begin soon although another round has been expected in Washington in September.

    Trump said his trade negotiators had received two “very good calls” from China on Sunday. But a spokesman for China’s foreign ministry said today that he didn’t know what calls Trump was talking about.

    Trump expressed his optimism about China hours after he sent mixed messages on the tariff war. He at first seemed to express regret Sunday over escalating the trade dispute, but the White House later said his only regret was that he didn’t impose even higher tariffs on China.

    Trump today claimed the Sunday evening conversations meant China is serious about making a deal. He said later today that talks also had taken place before Sunday.

    “I think we’re going to have a deal, because now we’re dealing on proper terms. They understand and we understand,” Trump said.

    He declined to say whether he’s spoken to President Xi Jinping or to identify those involved in the most recent conversations, saying only that they were at the “highest levels.”

    “This is the first time I’ve seen them where they really want to make a deal. And I think that’s a very positive step,” Trump added as he met with Egypt’s president on the sidelines of the Group of Seven summit.

    Whenever he is asked about China, Trump almost always says he believes they want to make a deal more than he does.

    He said today that the two sides will begin ‘talking very seriously,” adding that after the calls he believes the Chinese “mean business.”

    The Chinese were unaware of any recent conversations.

    “I have not heard of the weekend calls mentioned by the United States,” said Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s foreign ministry.

    These people are being paid a lot of money to be knowledgeable about financial information.

    We are so fucked.

  256. 256
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: there are several Apple shuttles that service it as well from locations around the area. Wouldn’t want the good people of Los Gatos to use public transportation!

  257. 257
    Kelly says:


    I know this may not be a popular opinion with some here, but if the feds want an ID, they should create and maintain their own damn ID. A driver’s license is a license to operate a motor vehicle.

    I concur. Federal id would mitigate vote suppression shenanigans and financial fraud. The privacy horse left the barn many years ago.

  258. 258
    germy says:


    but the comments are just so mean!

    I stopped after the picture. I knew the trolls would divebomb her. The sad/funny thing is, if she became president their lives would improve. But they’re too stupid to realize it.

  259. 259
    germy says:

    @Kelly: Wouldn’t that be a Social Security card?

  260. 260
    mrmoshpotato says:


    The sad/funny thing is, if she became president their lives would improve. But they’re too stupid to realize it.

    Seen this movie before.

  261. 261
    catclub says:

    @bemused: @NotMax: It should be the case that if you have a US passport, that should be definitive. It is typically one of he documents that can prove birth date and nation. But the clerks often seem to not realize this.
    (I am not sure how the law is writtten in each state. Again, US passport should be on the list of qualifying documents.)

  262. 262
    A Ghost To Most says:

    If JC is around, his spoon finally went out this morning, on the second try. The USPS doesn’t recognize his address without the PO box.

  263. 263

    @joel hanes: That’s what Ruckus was saying, G&T’s comment that there was no public transportation to the Apple Space Circle, there appears to be even absent Apple’s private shuttles.

    ETA: I took the Googlemobile for a spin up there and there’s a bus stop at Wolfe and Apple Park.

  264. 264
    catclub says:


    And I see Wall Street is still too stupid to live.

    They’re buying up stocks on optimism that Trump is telling the truth about working toward a serious trade agreement with China.

    There you go psychoanalyzing a zillion different people with a zillion different motivations. Nobody knows why things happen until long after, and sometimes, not even then.
    Saying stocks went up (or down) today because of X is futile.

  265. 265
    Kelly says:

    @germy: I lost my Social Security card decades ago. I don’t know what it could be used for. I have a valid passport so I’m thinking a process like obtaining a passport.

  266. 266

    @Kelly: Yup, when I just got my degree in Econ, I applied for a job with OMB. When I went in for the interview at the “New Executive Office Building”(it’s now part of the “White House Campus”), I gave the guard my California DL. The dot matrix printer started printing and printing and printing, I have no idea what. I gave up on the illusion of “privacy” after that. BTW, that was 1985.

  267. 267

    @Steve in the ATL: If it’s good enough for the people of Santa Clara…

  268. 268
    Miss Bianca says:

    @mrmoshpotato: I don’t think David Koch was a good person because he donated money to things…I think he was a bad person who had money to burn and I, among others, definitely separated him from a bit of it for a good cause.

  269. 269
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I’m so old, I remember when Apple hadn’t metastasized outside Cupertino yet.

  270. 270
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Immanentize: I don’t wish that situation on anyone. That being said, Duffy’s home in his district is a couple of blocks from my parents’ house. His kids go to the local Catholic schools (this is not a place where the parochial schools are better than the publics). My nephew knows the oldest kid, and says he is an ass.

    TL;DR: Sorry about the baby, but otherwise fuckem.

  271. 271
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    And those fat old guys would kick your ass at handball, as I experienced many a time as a young whippersnapper at an old-school YMCA in the ’70s.

  272. 272
    Brachiator says:


    Donald Trump, facing pressure to scale back a U.S.-China trade war contributing to a global economic slowdown, claimed today that serious talks will begin soon although another round has been expected in Washington in September.

    Trump said his trade negotiators had received two “very good calls” from China on Sunday. But a spokesman for China’s foreign ministry said today that he didn’t know what calls Trump was talking about.

    This is stupid in so many ways. A headline I saw before this falsely implied that the Chinese had actually capitulated and agreed to a meeting.

    Trump doesn’t know what he is doing. But the only thing he knows is to keep pushing forward with the same bullshit, and to lie and insist that things are going well.

    His GOP allies are backing him, but it is absurd that Wall Street and business reporters are also doing so.

    As with BREXIT and the UK, I find it crazy to watch so many people in the political and media establishment pretend that incompetent leaders know what they are doing, and that possible economic disaster is no big deal.

  273. 273
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Miss Bianca: I don’t think he was a good person either. And Anand doesn’t either based on his tweet.

    Stealing a bridge is a funny thought however.

  274. 274
    zhena gogolia says:


    Yeah, she was hot.

  275. 275
    zhena gogolia says:


    I hope neither she nor Kamala ever read the twitter responses. They seem to come straight from a basement in Ekaterinburg.

  276. 276
    chopper says:


    trump is trying to stop the bleeding in the markets so he makes up some bullshit about china capitulating. of course the media treats it
    like it’s true instead of, i dunno, asking china. cause we all know he’s earned the benefit of the fucking doubt.

  277. 277
    Brachiator says:


    trump is trying to stop the bleeding in the markets so he makes up some bullshit about china capitulating. of course the media treats it like it’s true instead of, i dunno, asking china.

    I kinda agree, but let me turn it around a bit. The bleeding in the markets is a sign of the failure of Trump’s policies. He is embarrassed. His bullshit is that he cannot fail. Even if he knew what he was doing, he would be unable to adapt to new events. Journalists cannot see what is going on right in front of them, or refuse to be honest about it.

  278. 278
    stinger says:

    Trump might have gotten a couple of panic calls “from China”, from the US Ambassador to China, Terry BranstadHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

  279. 279
    VOR says:

    @catclub: Real ID document requirements are probably set by Federal government, not states. Real ID is a Federal standard.

    Minnesota’s standard DL is not Real ID compliant so TSA kept issuing reprieves, moving the compliance date back. Our Wingnut legislators passed a law forbidding the state DOT from even planning for implementation of Real ID due to fears of Big Brother.

  280. 280
    Brachiator says:


    Minnesota’s standard DL is not Real ID compliant so TSA kept issuing reprieves, moving the compliance date back. Our Wingnut legislators passed a law forbidding the state DOT from even planning for implementation of Real ID due to fears of Big Brother.

    Wow. So, if you live in Minnesota, soon you won’t be able to leave the state??

    California had issues implementing Real ID correctly, on top of general problems with the DMV. Some people who got Real IDs under the old system will have to go through the process again.

  281. 281
    Steeplejack (sky-high wi-fi) says:

    Man, this morning thread lasted a long time.

    Steep checking in with the special nym on the Delta Airbus carrying me from Atlanta to Las Vegas. Just making sure the GoGo wi-fi is working for my (now) 3h 26m flight.

    Altitude approaching 27,000 feet, outside temp −9°. Ground speed 509 mph.

  282. 282
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Betty Cracker: I have no clue what happened to my Social Security card, but whatever happened it was many, many years ago. I’ve occasionally thought about getting a new copy, but all the things it might be good for seem to be covered by other documents I’ve managed to obtain.

    For a long time one of my key documents was the original birth certificate my parents had been given in the hospital when I was born, which was this flimsy little thing of tissue-paper consistency that was faded almost to total illegibility. When I got the job before my current one, I had to prove I-9 eligibility, I’d let my passport lapse and I had temporarily misplaced the birth certificate, which led to a few days of panic and my hastily ordering a spiffy new embossed version. I found the original a few days later, but it was probably just as well I’d replaced it–it had gotten to the point that it was nearly impossible even to photocopy. It made the birther claims about Obama’s birth certificate seem particularly ridiculous to me, since the new certificate looked exactly like Barack Obama’s and it would have been ridiculous for anyone not to accept it as the best state evidence available. I recall they also made me get a copy of my marriage certificate to sign up for insurance, which was kind of weird–I hadn’t had to do that before.

    I’m planning on maintaining a valid passport for the foreseeable future, which makes a lot of these things much easier…

  283. 283
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @catclub: A passport proves identity and US citizenship, but not address of residence. So there would have to be something establishing that, in contexts where it’s important.

  284. 284
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @germy: The federal government specifically says a Social Security card should NOT be used as proof of identity. It just establishes that a particular person has a particular Social Security number.

  285. 285
    Ruckus says:

    Seeing as how you have no idea what my corp financials looked like, how they were filed. what year this was or what the law was at the time, a blanket no really doesn’t mean squat. As I said prior, this accountant also taught tax law at UCLA at the time, and knew his shit from every direction, including my corp finances and my business. You are saying basically the same thing here about Amazon, that we don’t actually know what the accounting was/is, what the entire tax situation of the corp is, what they had in write offs, and the exact way the corp is set up. My situation could have been that I was, percentage wise, as profitable as Amazon, with the same percentage of write offs/carry forwards, whatever. This may be your ball game and I fully understand that you would know, say my current tax situation perfectly if I hired you, and would know how to have me pay the minimum due. IOW I’m not doubting your qualifications today, but this situation isn’t even close to today. Not knowing your age I’ll make the statement that you might have still been in the boy scouts or not even old enough for that at the time. It was a long time ago, longer than a lifetime for most of the people I work with.

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