The Enemy Of My Enemy?

So this is actually happening:

Former Rep. Joe Walsh (R-IL) officially announced his 2020 campaign to challenge President Donald Trump on Sunday morning.

Walsh, an outspoken Trump critic, confirmed that he had.

“I’m going to run for president, and I’m happy to be on your show announcing my candidacy,” Walsh told Stephanopoulos. “George, no surprise, we’ve got a guy in the White House who’s unfit, completely unfit, to be president.”

On one hand, anything that discomfits Hair Führer is fine by me, and certainly Walsh has the nasty mouth and all-round asshole gene to piss off RumpleTrumpskin plenty.  Not to mention I appreciate these jabs at his former GOP colleagues:

“And it stuns me that nobody’s stepped up, nobody in the Republican party’s stepped up,” he continued.

Walsh claimed that “everybody” in the GOP “believes [Trump’s] unfit” for office.

But aside from that, he’s a deadbeat dad slime ball with genuinely shitty politics.

On balance, though, I love it. Walsh can’t win the primary, but he can bring some extra heat, and that’s good for both political and entertainment reasons.  If by some meteor strike he did win, the combo platter of enraged Trump die-hards and the general decline in the GOP brand makes him odds against for the big prize.

And yeah, I know that Trump was too — but Walsh doesn’t have what the shitgibbon did: both a complacent media and, before assuming office, a weightless populist appeal.

But enough of that: I repeat rule 1 — Walsh ain’t going to win. And still Trump will be hugely pissed. And that’s both good and fun for us.

This thread: open as Emma Lazarus would have had the door to this U.S. of A.

Image: Vicenzo Camucchini, The Assassination of Julius Caesar, betw. 1804 and 1805.






159 replies
  1. 1

    Ultimately, the Right is going to have to participate in the destruction of Trump. That will allow his followers a way out and will most thoroughly discredit him. So yes, let’s cheer Walsh on!

  2. 2
    germy says:

    After drumpf won, I don’t believe I can confidently say “this person can’t win” or “that person can’t win.”

    In this insane timeline, i wouldn’t be surprised if Walsh beats drumpf in the primary, and then beats Warren in the general? He’s right out of central casting; the reasonable white guy who can rescue the grand old party from the misguided man and beat the bad lady with the crazy socialist ideas. Jake Tapper and Maggie Haberman and Peggy Noonan would love him.

  3. 3
    Mike J says:

    Is he running in the primary or as an indie? Wouldn’t the anti Trump right be better off coalescing around Weld?

    Will he release his tax returns so he can be on the ballot in Washington and California? If so, he could go into the Repub convention with a nice haul of delegates.

  4. 4
    Amir Khalid says:

    As I mentioned before, I look forward to Joe Walsh the politician being mocked again by Joe Walsh the guitar player.

  5. 5
    trollhattan says:

    Am learning Trump is summoning car companies to the WH for the purpose of yelling at them for cutting emission deals with California and resisting his rollback of Obama’s mileage standards. Given some of them are German companies, I wonder how that’s going for him?

  6. 6
    germy says:

    @Amir Khalid: Life’s been good to him so far.

  7. 7
    Emma says:

    I am willing to indulge in a blood sport or two. The image of Trump as a bull and Walsh as a matador amuses me. Unfortunately the bull always has a decent chance at goring the matador.

  8. 8
    trollhattan says:

    Sportsball programming note: noon, best coast time, Portland and Chicago face off in a tussle of NWSL’s #1 and #2 teams. Possible record-breaking crowd for this one. ESPN (one of them).

  9. 9
    dr. bloor says:

    I’d rather have every Republican congressional candidate run with Trump around his/her neck than root for Joe Fucking Walsh for even a second.

  10. 10
    A Ghost To Most says:

    The best I can muster is rooting for injuries.

    Fuckem.

  11. 11
    Yarrow says:

    If all he does is run in the Republican primary and cause problems for Trump I’m okay with it. If he or anyone else on the wingnut side decide to run Independent/third party i’m completely not okay with that.

  12. 12

    The big question is whether the media keeps giving him exposure. If they do, it could be a real thorn in Trump’s side, both because Walsh can make attacks on Trump that right wingers might actually listen to and because it would be a sign the media is not completely in the bag for Trump. More likely, though, is that all his media attention will either be on page 26 or be in the form of making fun of the idea that anyone is bothering to run against Trump in the primary.

  13. 13
    MattF says:

    If you want to hear Joe Walsh and Charlie Sykes, both unapologetic right-wingers, nail Trump repeatedly, here’s a podcast:

    https://podcast.thebulwark.com/joe-walsh-trump-is-unfit

    My own position is that I don’t need convincing, but there is some value in considering what it takes to change minds.

  14. 14
    debbie says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    We may not be able to tell, what with Joe’s incessant mumbling.

  15. 15
    dmsilev says:

    @Yarrow: He’s running in the primary. Doesn’t necessarily forestall an indy bid in the general, but for now it’s a true primary challenge.

  16. 16
    Yarrow says:

    Tom Nichols had an interesting thread the other day on Republican primary challengers:

    I get that @WalshFreedom or Weld or Amash want to take on Trump from within the GOP, but I'm not enthusiastic about any of these primary ideas. I *really* don't want this to mutate into a 3rd-party challenge, which will only help Trump. In my view, 2020 is a binary choice. /1— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) August 24, 2019

    Click through for the rest of the thread. He’s against the idea and wants the 2020 election to be a binary choice. He has said he will vote for the Democrat.

  17. 17

    @Yarrow:

    If he or anyone else on the wingnut side decide to run Independent/third party i’m completely not okay with that.

    Why? Walsh, or anyone like him from the wingnut right, is likely to steal a lot more votes from Trump than from any Democrat. He’s a lot more appealing to Tea Partiers than he is to centrists.

  18. 18
    different-church-lady says:

    At first I’m thinking, “I don’t see a downside.” Then I imagined one: Walsh opens the floodgates for other candidates, and suddenly turns the GOP nomination into chaos. Upside, we’re rid of Trump, downside, suddenly a viable GOP nominee emerges. And there’s the distinct possibility that nominee is even worse than Trump and then wins.

    Likelihood of that is slim, but in this timeline the improbable doesn’t seem to be anymore.

  19. 19
    rachel says:

    @Emma:

    Unfortunately the bull always has a decent chance at goring the matador.

    Remember what he said about Obama?
    Remember how he disparaged Tammy Duckworth’s sacrifice?
    Remember how he whole-heartedly supported this unfit con man we have for POTUS now?
    Remember that he tried to duck out on his obligations to his own children?

    What do you mean “unfortunately?” I hope his political career is eviscerated.

  20. 20
    different-church-lady says:

    @Roger Moore:

    The big question is whether the media keeps giving him exposure.

    a) Walsh will make sure they do. He’s a spotlight hog.

    b) The reason the media gravitates towards Trump is not so much because they like him as it is because they love a circus. Walsh makes the circus more interesting.

  21. 21
    different-church-lady says:

    @Emma: Death (politically) of both combatants would be cool.

  22. 22
    Baud says:

    Walsh is running to Hillary’s left.

  23. 23
    different-church-lady says:

    @Baud: Knock it off, Doug J.

  24. 24
    Dave says:

    @rachel: Exactly. So what if Trump ends up eviscerating Walsh? It doesn’t help Trump in the general (or barring some insanely unlikely series of events it doesn’t help him and yes I know we like to be anything can happen which is true but mostly useless it doesn’t make insanely unlikely things likely). So Trump eviscerates Walsh and is happy. This doesn’t pick our pocket in any way.

  25. 25
    Amir Khalid says:

    @trollhattan:
    If you’re a carmaker, among the things driving you to cut emissions and raise fuel economy are international regulations and customer expectations. Neither of these is in any meaningful sense under Trump’s control. No sane country wants to let car engines pollute more or emit more greenhouse gases, and car buyers prefer less polluting cars. Carmakers would be wasting money if they made more polluting cars just for the US market. And obviously no car owner wants to spend more money on fuel than they do already. Trump won’t care to hear this, but carmakers have nothing to gain by doing what he wants.

  26. 26
    dr. bloor says:

    @Yarrow: Doesn’t strike me as interesting as much as it is weird. All those hypothetical sensible Republicans decide to go for Walsh than for the Democrat? Fine by me. That’s one less vote for Trump either way, and there aren’t any Democrats that are going to cross over for Walsh.

  27. 27
    Dave says:

    @Roger Moore: Yes the only candidate I’ve seen that might not draw more from Trump than whoever the Democratic nominee ends up being is Weld. And even then it’s not that likely.

  28. 28
    JPL says:

    @rachel: Pretty sure it was Walsh who thought young children could be taught to rush an active shooter.

  29. 29
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @debbie:
    The mumbles are what Joe is actually thinking. Great guitar player; not much of a thinker.

  30. 30
    Mike in NC says:

    Rumor has it that to punish his newest archenemy President Xi, Fat Bastard will hereby order all great American citizens from getting take-out from Chinese restaurants.

  31. 31
    different-church-lady says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    No sane country wants to let car engines pollute more or emit more greenhouse gases,

    Well, that leaves us out.

  32. 32
    Yarrow says:

    @Roger Moore: I disagree. Walsh would be the “not crazy” Republican candidate. He’d take votes from people who might like to vote for the Republican but hate Trump. I don’t particularly want to risk that those votes might otherwise have gone to the Democrat and we would need them. YMMV.

  33. 33
    JaySinWA says:

    @Roger Moore: I suspect the media will love Walsh. He’ll give good quotes. Spark Trump to wail. Theater will be served.
    ETA in ways that Weld never could.

  34. 34
    Spanky says:

    @Baud: Yeah, truly. [:Rolleyes:]

    My best case scenario is for Walsh & Trump to go through the primary fight, ultimately damaging both. Trump wins the nomination, and Walsh files for an independent run. If he were to pull any votes from the Dem side, it would only be marginally Dem folk. I think he would effectively split the Republican vote down the middle.

  35. 35
    Amir Khalid says:

    @JPL:
    Wasn’t that Megan McArdle?

  36. 36
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mike in NC: Now that a kind of resistance I can really sink my teeth into!

  37. 37
  38. 38
    Immanentize says:

    A number of states have anti-spoiler laws. You cannot run in a primary and then run as a third party candidate (obviously Connecticut and Alaska are not such States). But I know that there are enough that it makes an independent run post-primary only a spoiler effort. That is one rational reason Bernie primaries with the Dems.

  39. 39
    JaySinWA says:

    @different-church-lady: Beat me to it.

  40. 40

    @different-church-lady:

    Then I imagined one: Walsh opens the floodgates for other candidates, and suddenly turns the GOP nomination into chaos. Upside, we’re rid of Trump, downside, suddenly a viable GOP nominee emerges. And there’s the distinct possibility that nominee is even worse than Trump and then wins.

    Historically, the only way a president gets a serious challenger from within his own party is when the party is in terrible shape. By far the most likely outcome of chaos in the nomination is chaos during the election.

  41. 41
    Emma says:

    @rachel: At this point, all I want is someone with some wingnut cred to bang away at Trump successfully. I didn’t ask for St. Vincent de Paul.

  42. 42
    Jinchi says:

    Weld has already announced, hasn’t he. I keep seeing articles by conservatives begging Republicans to primary him, but I rarely see his name mentioned.

  43. 43
    Immanentize says:

    I think Walsh should position himself as the true candidate for armed Patriots. That would create a stir.

  44. 44
    JPL says:

    @Jinchi: It’s possible that they view him as a liberal, since he was governor of MA. Weld seems to be a nice guy, and honestly are there any republicans left who want someone nice?

  45. 45

    The republican governor of Missouri cites Breitbart in a social media post because, well, it’s Missouri.

    Gov. Mike Parson (r): Your Friday night news dump

  46. 46
    MattF says:

    @Mike in NC: That would fix the trade deficit. And the MSG deficit— a twofer!!

  47. 47
    JPL says:

    @Amir Khalid: You’re correct that she did promote that. Now I’m googling to see if Walsh did also.

  48. 48
    JaySinWA says:

    @Yarrow: Yes, the danger from Walsh is not Democrats jumping ship, it’s “independents” that decide Walsh is more palatable than a “socialist”.

  49. 49
    ThresherK says:

    Any chance Walsh is building a lifeboat so R’s can say “We tried”?

    This,for my money, is much like Ted Cruz at the 16 RNC saying “Vote your conscience”: “It’s gonna turn to shit, we want the press to let us evacuate from Trump and pretend he was never one of us.”

  50. 50
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Spanky:

    Trump wins the nomination, and Walsh files for an independent run.

    It’ll be too late at that point in many states.

  51. 51
    trollhattan says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    No sane country

    Let me stop you right there….

    No, the car companies don’t want or need Trump’s rollbacks because they know the reversal will be reversed as soon as he’s dragged from the WH and responding to a double-whammy emissions and mileage target change is nearly impossible (given how long it takes to design, approve and manufacture a vehicle).

    He’s doing this to please the oil industry and give the finger to Obama.

    FWIW California has had unique emissions standards since the 1960s, before EPA even existed, and the right to continue setting them has been upheld in the courts despite dozens of challenges. Trump’s court-packing could end that at some point.

    My kid reports not seeing a single pickup truck or big SUV during her three weeks in Germany. We’re so very weird to be driving these things.

  52. 52
    JaySinWA says:

    A number of states announced that they would not allow republicans to primary Trump as Weld was announcing. I wonder if a Walsh candidacy might change that. Especially as Trump deteriorates.

  53. 53
    JPL says:

    @Amir Khalid: Walsh is the one caught on tape telling Sasha Baron Cohen that he wants guns for four year old children. It’s difficult keeping who said what straight.

  54. 54
    different-church-lady says:

    @trollhattan:

    My kid reports not seeing a single pickup truck or big SUV during her three weeks in Germany.

    Gas ain’t cheap there.

  55. 55
    Jinchi says:

    @JPL: I think you’re right, but of course Romney was Governor of Massachusetts too. Although he did constantly bash the state once he decided to run for President.

  56. 56
    dww44 says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m afraid we’re still a ways away from that eventuality. On my local tv news yesterday was a report and video from about 25 miles down the road at our state’s fairground, beloved by the state GOP (as they funded and built it) and Kemp and Perdue were guest speakers at the state party’s annual fish fry. Lots of “MAGA” caps and other goodies as well as reps from the Trump/Pence re-election campaign.

    What was so strange about it was that these leaders were so verbally supportive of Trump. What sane reality based citizen is unable to see that the President is wholly unfit for office? Talk about first class denialism;that bit of local reporting was definitely that. I would posit that as long as a significant portion of local media in red states is afraid/unwilling to speak the truth about Trump, the worm is not yet ready to turn.

  57. 57
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @trollhattan: I have driven many thousands of kilometers all over western Europe. It is a completely different experience. And, yes, $6-8/gallon for petrol will force that.

    In Norway, it seemed that every third car was a Tesla. Cheap hydro and $8/gal gas really alters the cost calculations.

  58. 58
    Betty Cracker says:

    Anyone know what the French are up to with the allegedly secret invitation to Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif at the G7? I read somewhere that the French spent the run-up to the G7 trying to talk the US into reengaging with Iran, but Trump (with Bolton’s arm up his ass moving his lips) refused and insisted on a united front against Iran instead. The media reports make it sound like Trump was blindsided by Zarif’s arrival, which is totally believable. I wonder does Macron think he can get somewhere with Trump if Bolton isn’t there to manipulate him? Or is this just a big “fuck you” to Trump? Interesting in either case.

  59. 59
    different-church-lady says:

    @dww44:

    What sane reality based citizen is unable to see that the President is wholly unfit for office?

    Answered your own question there.

  60. 60

    @Betty Cracker: I am tracking it. I see contradictory reports about whether Trump was blindsided.

    Here’s my theory: Macron convinced Trump that he can have what he wants – a gaudy photo op (although Zarif is less than what Trump wants – would prefer President Rouhani or the Supreme Leader) in return for something that would be real progress, like restoring oil waivers. The photo op will include signing something, maybe an agreement to increase talks, but nothing big. As long as Trump can have photos of him signing something and the old grip-and-grin, he’ll probably go for it.

  61. 61
    debbie says:

    @Roger Moore:

    Imagine a GOP debate stage more crowded than the DNC debates! The rationalizations alone would be priceless!

  62. 62

    Trump is now reported to have left the area where everyone else is. I’m gonna make lunch.

  63. 63
    debbie says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I stand corrected!

  64. 64
    Jinchi says:

    According to Vox some states are planning to cancel the Republican primary completely.

  65. 65
    JPL says:

    @Betty Cracker: According to twitter most of the American delegation, did not know. Macron might have mentioned it to trump yesterday at lunch. It’s unknown whether or not he processed the information. The president left the meetings early today to return to his hotel. He was probably bored. imo

  66. 66
    debbie says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    He’s tweeting during his break. Five alone in just the past hour.

  67. 67
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Betty Cracker: I wonder does Macron think he can get somewhere with Trump if Bolton isn’t there to manipulate him? Or is this just a big “fuck you” to Trump? Interesting in either case.

    I wouldn’t know what Macron’s end game is– just deescalation?– but for the past few months I’ve been wondering why the Iranians don’t just send trump a “Your Excellency” letter just to see the kind of fantods and tizzies it would provoke on the other side of the Persian Gulf

  68. 68
    Fourten says:

    quit falling for the repubican’s scam. for gods sake. deadbeat Walsh is using you to let the establisment GOP off the hook. the GOP is the GOP is the GOP. #burnthelifeboats

  69. 69
    JPL says:

    @JPL: or what the expert said.
    Although I still think that trump might have been informed but not able to process the information.
    Merkle supports Mccron’s attempts at diplomacy.

  70. 70
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: As long as Trump can have photos of him signing something and the old grip-and-grin, he’ll probably go for it.

    grip-and-grimace. I’m sure he’d want to make his constipated-baby face (that he thinks is Churchillian) at the Iranians to show the Mouth Breathers that he was “tough”

  71. 71
    Original Lee says:

    @different-church-lady: Our Polish exchange student was marvelling yesterday at how big our vehicles are and how low the price of gasoline is. He arrived on Friday and has already confided that our air smells very good compared to the air in Warsaw.

  72. 72

    @Yarrow:

    He’d take votes from people who might like to vote for the Republican but hate Trump. I don’t particularly want to risk that those votes might otherwise have gone to the Democrat and we would need them.

    I think the main votes he’d get would be voters who say they can’t stand Trump but who would find an excuse to vote for him anyway.

  73. 73
    Jinchi says:

    @Betty Cracker: Macron’s misread Trump if he thinks this is the way to hoodwink him. Trump isn’t above simply storming away fuming.

  74. 74
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @different-church-lady: I still think the R with the most chance of either hurting or re-electing trump is Kasich. If he’s willing to go all-in to stop trump, run against him the way Perot went after Bush, I think trump is done. If he gets the notion that he can win and goes with an indie run, backed by Bloomberg and god knows who else (Gates? Buffett? Zuckerberg?), I think the EC gets dangerously unpredictable.

  75. 75
    trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Or is this just a big “fuck you” to Trump?

    I’m going with this door. Trump is virtually covered with triggers from head to toe and these folks are to be forgiven for squeezing them out of sheer spite and exhaustion.

  76. 76
    trollhattan says:

    @Original Lee:
    My kid was zehr disappointed her German host family owned a tiny Chevrolet. She was hoping for a Mini or VW or something.

    Also, too, guessing Poland is overwhelmingly coal-powered. That’s gotta stop, wonder if they have any plans in that regard?

  77. 77
    trollhattan says:

    @Jinchi:
    Maybe storming away is what they want?

  78. 78

    This is exactly the sort of primary the media wants, so I’ll bet they pump Walsh up and we just might end up with something disruptive.

  79. 79
    Ruckus says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Or is this just a big “fuck you” to Trump? Interesting in either case.

    I’m going with huge “fuck you”. And that they think trying to work it out is far, far better than a big war, with more turmoil. And immigrants. I’d bet that a lot of the EU is more than tired of war in the middle east and know that trump is about the least capable person to do anything about it, especially with Bolton anywhere in the mix. The US has taken center stage in the middle east for going on 2 decades now, and it’s worked out so well, I’d bet they figure it’s time that the adults handled it.

  80. 80
    JaySinWA says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yes Walsh/Trump is the theater critic reporters dream battle. It will have drama. It’s not clear if the poll score keepers will be as engaged.

  81. 81

    @trollhattan: idk where Original Lee lives, but if it’s not a dense city, then it quite likely smells better than a dense city.

  82. 82
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ve assumed Netanyahu and Bolton take turns manipulating Trump on Iran to further their own agendas, leaving little room for the Iranians to jerk the moron’s chain.

  83. 83
    johnnybuck says:

    @dww44: Kemp and Perdue both are hard-wired to Trump. They don’t have a lot of choice. The state GOP expects a base election again next year. And considering how close results from ’18 were, nothing you can do but double down. Kemp will never appeal to anyone but the base.

  84. 84
    Kay says:

    They’re both horrible and gross. However. A primary challenge is never good for the incumbent so it’s “good”

    It’s worth noting that the GOP is just decimated though- these are their top two? Good God. There are county commissioner races with better quality people squaring off.

  85. 85
    Mike in NC says:

    @Gin & Tonic: On our recent visit to Norway they stressed how much the government is pushing people to buy electric cars. Incentives such as paying no sales tax on them. Norway is the biggest market for electric cars.

  86. 86
    Ruckus says:

    @Jinchi:
    Of course as I think you are saying, trump doesn’t fume long. He acts. And always in the worst possible way for whatever situation. He’s incapable of making things better, only worse. He’d probably stroke out if he made things actually better, because that wasn’t his intent. His intent is to make things better for trump. Which is never good for anyone else. And because he’s such a fuck up, usually isn’t actually good for him either.

  87. 87
    patrick II says:

    If there are no debates, Democrats and our foreign allies (whoever they are) should spread rumors of emails showing that the RNC favored Trump and that it is a crime worth jailing all of them for.

  88. 88
    Yarrow says:

    @Roger Moore: I really don’t want to take the chance.

    @Jinchi:

    According to Vox some states are planning to cancel the Republican primary completely.

    I thought the RNC had declared that there would not be a Republican primary, that no one could primary Trump.

  89. 89
    West of the Rockies says:

    @dww44:

    These people you mention undoubtedly consider themselves to be good, hard-working, intelligent folks. What blunt-force psychological transition will have to take place to make them uninvest in Trump?

  90. 90
    patrick II says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m going with the “fuck you” to Trump. Unless the Iranian ambassador offers Trump an opportunity to build the “Trump Tehran Towers”. The alliteration might work.

  91. 91
    trollhattan says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Warsaw seems…unique compared to a typical European city WRT air.

  92. 92
    Jinchi says:

    @Yarrow: Really?! That would be i teresting to read

  93. 93
    Yarrow says:

    Re the Walsh challenge to Trump:

    I should add (bc I want my audiences to be the smartest audiences in the history of election twitter) the GOP tweaked Rep primary rules in key states like SC to ensure Trump will be the party's nominee no matter what, so these challenges are merely symbolic https://t.co/Oyt0CJWue1— Rachel "The Doc" Bitecofer 📈🔭🗿💪 (@RachelBitecofer) August 25, 2019

  94. 94

    European SUV sales are actually booming for whatever reason. https://europe.autonews.com/sales-segment/europes-suv-sales-boom-despite-flat-market-2018

    European vehicle sales were flat at 15.54 million last year, but volumes of SUVs and crossovers of any size and price increased by 18 percent to
    5.3 million, adding 800,000 annual sales to a sector that in 2017 had already grown by 18 percent — or 700,000 units — to 4.5 million.

    The additional surge in demand meant that SUVs and crossovers grew to one-third of total European sales, rising to a 34.3 percent share, up from 29.4 percent in 2017 and 25.6 percent in 2016, figures from market researcher JATO Dynamics show.

    @trollhattan: yikes! Maybe they’re buying all those SUVs.

  95. 95
    JPL says:

    @Ruckus: Trump wants his trip to Poland though, and it’s difficult for me to imagine he returns to the USA. He might sit in his room and tweet like he is now, but he will get his visit to Poland and be recognized as the great one.

  96. 96
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    Joe “You Lie!” Walsh?

    I hope he spends his last nickel battling Trump, then lives a long, long life ignored and forgotten.

  97. 97
    JPL says:

    @West of the Rockies: When we drive in north GA, we play a game called let’s count the confederate flags That might answer your question.

  98. 98
    Wapiti says:

    Walsh and Weld tossing their hat into the nomination ring only makes sense. There is some chance that Trump will not run or not be acceptable by next summer. Health, mental health, scandal… any number of things could render him too damaged to prevail against the Democratic Party nominee. And even if they don’t win the nomination, but Trump loses, they’re in a better position for 2024.

  99. 99
    Another Scott says:

    @different-church-lady: Plenty of V12 monster cars on the autobahn, though… :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  100. 100
    Kay says:

    Oliver Willis
    @owillis
    ·3h
    “He’s going to be forced to do debates” is such wishful thinking I don’t even know what to do with it. After 2+ years of this so many of you are still living in a fantasy.

    It’s challenging, that Trump and the low quality hires follow no rules, norms or laws, but it has to be adjusted to. We’re all going to have to come up with new ideas. Easy for me to say- true- but then I’m not a highly paid professional campaign consultant or media person, so it’s not my job. It is their job. They present themselves as professionals. They have to try something different than what they have done the last 50 years. They have to rise to this challenge. So far they haven’t. Try something new or possibly fail again pretending these people have any respect for process or laws or norms. I admit it’s a really difficult environment but here we are 3 years later and they’re still trying to do this the same way they’ve always done it. That won’t work.
    Trump is going to be desperate to hang onto power. The assumption should be he’ll do anything.

  101. 101
    Wapiti says:

    @Quaker in a Basement: That was Joe Wilson, Walsh is a different Republican shithead.

  102. 102
    J R in WV says:

    I think here in America, pickup are a symbol with multiple meanings to may folks. Being a builder, working in construction, ranching and cowboys, outdoor party with a boat, camping, I’m sure there are others as well. And that symbology is probably more significant in buying decisions than the actual utility of the average PU truck.

    I had a PU truck from the time we bought our farm (around ’78) until 2 or 3 years ago. But I did have a farm, was repairing a shack of an old farm house, was building a new house to replace the not really worth repairing any more farm house, etc. I hauled many a ton of manure, of lumber, of road gravel.

    I still miss having a truck, even though I’m really past being able to actually DO construction. I did so much construction I can’t do it any more. But I could occasionally actually use a truck for special tasks, or so a tiny voice keeps telling me.

  103. 103

    RumpleTrumpskin

    I prefer Trumplethinskin

  104. 104
    clay says:

    I don’t think a Trump-Iran deal is likely. Sure, he has a natural affinity for cozying up to dictators, and a self-delusion as deal maker. But that is butting up against his Islamophobia and racism, and I think the latter wins out.

    Plus, Obama got an Iran deal, which is why Trump hated the deal to begin with. So the last thing he’s going to do is repeat Obama’s accomplishment.

  105. 105
    Another Scott says:

    @Jinchi: The RNC has been trying since January, at least, to say there will be no GOP primary for President. NPR:

    There is an open question about whether current RNC rules allow money to be spent to support Trump’s re-election if there is a contested primary for the GOP presidential nomination. This question has helped motivate those like Williams who hope to block a Trump challenger.

    “The party can’t spend money or resources if there is a contested primary,” a longtime RNC insider argued. “They stupidly didn’t amend the rules in a substantive manner from 2016, which was an open cycle.”

    Rules are for little people.

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  106. 106
    Tom Levenson says:

    @J R in WV: when my uncle retired and sold his farm, he kept the littlest tractor (of three) and parked in the shed at the downsized house, w. it’s half acre garden. He used it now and then, and loved being able to do so. Finally sold it in his early 80s.

  107. 107
    Mick McDick says:

    I think DougJ should fundraise for him. Split the asshat vote, you know?

    These rats aren’t going to fuck themselves, people!

  108. 108
    Kay says:

    @Another Scott:

    Rules are for little people.

    It’s amusing they’re pretending this is an “open question”. Pray tell, what’s the remedy when Trump and the low quality hires violate these rules? They appeal to …the Trump-captured GOP? He owns their Party, lock stock and barrel. There aren’t going to be any “hearings” or meetings of rules committees.

  109. 109
    NotMax says:

    @clay

    Exactly as likely as an ice cream cone-shaped interstellar craft crewed by paisley unicorns touching down on your street within the next five minutes.

  110. 110
    mad citizen says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yes! Me as well. It took me a day or two this week before I realized it wasn’t the rocker from Ohio who was running for President. I’d heard he had ran before, and I thought I had missed something before from Joe Walsh the Eagle running for president.

  111. 111
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: Do the people Willis is talking about think Trump will have to debate Walsh? If so, I agree that’s a fantasy. But I don’t think Trump will be able to squirm out of debating the Democratic nominee. He can refuse, but he’ll look like a giant chickenshit if he does, and as a bully, he would be sensitive to that perception.

  112. 112
    mad citizen says:

    @dww44: At our recent state fair (Indiana) the Republican booth outdoors had the largest sign for our Governor’s reelection campaign. They did had a life-sized stand-up of drumph, though. A couple of young men were manning the booth. I did not engage, and no one else was talking to them either.

  113. 113
    Kay says:

    @Another Scott:

    Donald Trump and the low quality hires are right now, today, violating the laws about using public funding to conduct campaign events. They do this once a week. Not one of the GOP Party leaders have uttered a peep. Public money! Millions of dollars!

    They think he’s going to follow their stupid primary rules about how RNC money can be used? Fat chance. Their Party is a dictatorship. No judge is going to save them. Walsh isn’t going to save them. They don’t have a political Party. They have Donald Trump and whatever collection of sleazy liars he hires.

  114. 114
    trollhattan says:

    @J R in WV:
    In my metroplex I’ll venture 25% of pickups are working trucks, 10% are for hauling toys and the rest are “fuck you in your little car” statements.

    They’re also shockingly expensive, so I get why the automakers are more than happy to harvest the fat margins they represent.

  115. 115
    clay says:

    @Kay: Don’t worry, I’m sure the Federal Elections Committee will get right on that!

  116. 116
    Jim Parish says:

    I think Howard Tayler’s view is the right one:

    “Maxim 29:
    The enemy of my enemy is my enemy’s enemy. No more. No less.

    -The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries”

  117. 117
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Living in socal, especially in some parts of it we see jacked up full size 4×4 pickups by the dozens every day. Almost everyone of them is empty with one person. I walk by one home with one in the drive way with totally replaced suspension and I’d guess an 8 or 10 in lift. Probably spent $25K on mods. At least. People often spend as much modifying them as buying them. They are never dirty, as in work trucks or being taken off road.
    I’ve also been yelled at for being poor for walking, on several occasions, even though almost every time the car they are driving is not as nice or new as the one I own. America is weird.

  118. 118
    Another Scott says:

    @Kay: I’m no expert, but I assume they’re talking about the various FEC rules. The ones with various fines and prison sentences listed for violations of the relevant US Code.

    Not that I expect those punishments to apply to Donnie and his close minions though…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    He’s going to be forced to do debates” is such wishful thinking I don’t even know what to do with it. 

    Not even Obama debated that felon who 40% of West Virginia Dems voted for in the 2016 primary.

  120. 120
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott:

    I don’t see a reason why the next Dem Justice Dept can’t go after unpardoned actors.

  121. 121
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I just think there’s a kind of desperation to pretend that these people will follow rules or norms, and that desperation (which is fear-based, IMO) is limiting our ability to open up the possibilities of what might happen and plan accordingly. I know you agree with me on this to a certain extent because you and I are “in that camp”, as opposed to the camp who are like “we’ll have to run better ads in Wisconsin!”. We do have creative people on our side. I am not one, but we need to cut them loose and let them look at possible events and outcomes – things that are outside “norms”. I get it completely- I’m as upset as anyone that I have to let go of how I am accustomed to thinking about “campaigns” and “process” – I am a fairly conventional person- but we have just overwhelming evidence at this point that they do not care about these rules.
    What Republicans are doing right now is a variation of what they did in the 2016 primary, except now there are many more Trump cultists in the ranks including ALL of Congress, with the exception of Amash. They still don’t get it. They don’t have a political Party. They don’t have rules committees or campaign finance restrictions or norms. We have those. They don’t. Because we have them we’re constrained by them so we need new (lawful) ideas and we don’t get those as long as we keep saying “Trump will…” or “Trump will not…”. He will do anything to hang onto power. Include the whole universe of possible outcomes.

  122. 122
    Kay says:

    @Another Scott:

    They are talking about various FEC rules because political parties (generally) make (and break) their own rules. Courts are loathe to step in there. That’s why the Bernistas were either full of shit or completely confused when they kept pretending DNC rules are somehow “laws” in 2016. It’s WHY they were able to say those nonsensical things about “due process” when they were referring to Party rules that are set within that structure. It was never going to a court because it isn’t a law. It’s a Party rule.

    But- the idea that conservatives are suddenly going to start enforcing campaign finance rules is as silly or sillier than the idea that Donald Trump even knows what they are or would follow them. He doesn’t follow them now. He didn’t follow them last week when he spend X millions a campaign rally in PA. Why in the HELL would he start when he has a primary opponent?

  123. 123
    Jeffro says:

    I don’t care about Walsh or Weld or whether they will be able to debate trumpov or if they’ll somehow crack the GOP or any of it.

    What I do care about is that with the blessed economy supposedly doing so historically amazing, and after telling off our allies and showing Iran who’s boss and with so much “winning” in every direction…The Chosen One has not one but two primary challengers a year out from the election.

    The guy who supposedly has an iron grip on the GOP and its voters – he has two primary challengers. What do you say about that, John Kasich? What about you, Mitt Romney? Might that cause you two craven cowards to ramp up your criticism of this president *?

    I don’t care about Walsh or Weld. But I DO like anything that helps crack the perception within the GOP that trumpov is invincible, or that he’s doing a great job. He’s already behind and can’t crack 40%. Let’s keep him busy beating on the rebels in his own party and drive his support down even further.

  124. 124
    Kay says:

    @Another Scott:

    Assume Donald Trump breaks any and all GOP rules and also assume no one in his administration has any intention of following FEC rules or enforcing them if they’re violated. Then what? That’s the kind of open-ended thinking we need, IMO.

    Very challenging! Unprecedented. But necessary with these people. They do not follow rules or laws. They have proven that over and over and over. So how to operate in that environment without breaking D rules or federal law? A harder job than Trump has (which is not fair, I admit) – this is not our fault but it very much is our problem.

  125. 125
    James E Powell says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Ultimately, the Right is going to have to participate in the destruction of Trump. That will allow his followers a way out and will most thoroughly discredit him.

    The press/media promoted Trump into the White House then protected him. They will make sure that neither the Republicans nor “conservatives” will suffer from Trump. It will be like George W Bush – erased from memory, never really happened. When the next Democratic president is elected, all problems caused by Trump & the Republicans, most especially deficits, will be officially deemed as caused by that Democratic president.

  126. 126
    Baud says:

    @Jeffro:

    I wonder who shows up to speak at the RNC.

  127. 127
    Baud says:

    @James E Powell:

    And every exercise of political power will be interpreted as acting like Trump.

  128. 128
    Kay says:

    @Another Scott:

    What we have here is Donald Trump (and employees) versus a functioning political (Democratic) Party that is still bound by the rules of the political party (as written and enacted by various committees, etc) and federal laws regarding campaigns.
    There is no functioning Republican Party. Advantage- Donald Trump and his employees.

    So how do we even it up within the rules and laws? That’s the challenge. Can the “old” people we have do that? Or is this just not within their set of skills so they keep returning to what they’re familiar with (understandably) , meaning we need new people and new ideas to meet what is a very difficult problem?

  129. 129
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    My Maseratti does one-eighty-five
    I lost my license, now I don’t drive
    I have a limo, ride in the back
    I lock the doors in case I’m attacked

    They say I’m crazy but I have a have a good time
    I’m just looking for clues at the scene of the crime
    Life’s been good to me so far

  130. 130
    James E Powell says:

    @J R in WV:

    I think here in America, pickup are a symbol with multiple meanings to may folks. Being a builder, working in construction, ranching and cowboys, outdoor party with a boat, camping, I’m sure there are others as well.

    Being a lawyer in Los Angeles who is concerned about the size of his penis.

  131. 131
    James E Powell says:

    @J R in WV:

    I think here in America, pickup are a symbol with multiple meanings to may folks. Being a builder, working in construction, ranching and cowboys, outdoor party with a boat, camping, I’m sure there are others as well.

    Being a lawyer in Los Angeles who is concerned about the size of his thing.

  132. 132
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Jim Parish: Two words: Horse. Shit.

    The enemy of my enemy is my ally for the time being.

  133. 133
    Doug R says:

    @Spanky:

    My best case scenario is for Walsh & Trump to go through the primary fight, ultimately damaging both. Trump wins the nomination, and Walsh files for an independent run. If he were to pull any votes from the Dem side, it would only be marginally Dem folk. I think he would effectively split the Republican vote down the middle.

    We just need to remind everyone of Walsh’s disrespect of the man who got the most votes for President and keep pounding on how he’s a a deadbeat, should keep most of the Democratic coalition from voting for him. If he peels off 10% of trump’s support, they’re done.

  134. 134
    Doug R says:

    @trollhattan:

    Also, too, guessing Poland is overwhelmingly coal-powered. That’s gotta stop, wonder if they have any plans in that regard?

    All former coal-fired thermal plants in British Columbia are now natural gas powered-it can be done.

  135. 135
    Raven says:

    @J R in WV: I haven’t been without one since 1972. My 62 Jimmy and 66 Chevy Fleetside are the same body and undercarriage and I’ve had my Chev 35 years.

  136. 136
    zhena gogolia says:

    If it hasn’t been mentioned yet, this is NOT the guy who yelled “You lie!”

  137. 137
    sukabi says:

    @rachel: he’s (Walsh) is begging for a political goring. If there aren’t ads up in the next week or so revisiting his deadbeat past I’ll be surprised.

  138. 138
    David Koch says:

    @trollhattan: Anti-fascists reporting to work (photo)

  139. 139
  140. 140
    Raven says:

    And oh, by the way, you don’t like my truck? Kiss my ass.

  141. 141
    dmsilev says:

    @zhena gogolia: Right, that was Joe Wilson. Walsh is the deadbeat dad guy.

  142. 142
    Tehanu says:

    Tom, that’s Fake Hair Fuhrer.

  143. 143
    Ken says:

    Walsh claimed that “everybody” in the GOP “believes [Trump’s] unfit” for office.

    How can we make sure Trump sees this? Moreover, how can we plant the idea that his failures are because of Republicans secretly working behind his back to stymie all of his great plans?

  144. 144
    Raven says:

    Jerry Jeff Walker. Pickup Truck Song

    I spent a few years out runnin’ free
    I spent two or three in New York City
    And I moved back to Texas tired, hell I’d had enough
    I’d go to Luckenbach on Saturdays
    Cause Hondo had a way to brighten up my day
    He always made me laugh when we rode in his pickup truck
    We’d make a run to the county dump
    We’d always wave when we saw someone
    Hondo’d make up a tale as we rolled along
    To the post office without fail
    He’d get some chew and we’d check out the mail
    And we never took the same road twice on the way back home

  145. 145
    patrick II says:

    @clay:

    But that is butting up against his Islamophobia and racism, and I think the latter wins out.

    He’s dealing with the Saudis so he can get over that.

    Plus, Obama got an Iran deal, which is why Trump hated the deal to begin with

    There you go.

  146. 146
    Ruckus says:

    Just was checking out twitter. Joe Walsh shows up in my feed because one of the MomsDemand women I follow retweets his crap to show how bad he really is. He is the same racist asshole as all the rest of the republican party. Just in case there was any doubt.

  147. 147
    J R in WV says:

    @Tom Levenson:

    I’ve still got the tractor, we mounted the backhoe on it this spring. We use ti to mow the bottoms once a year and grade the roads with it, and clear snow in the winter, if we have any more of those. Tractors are great.

    And all my neighbors have trucks I can borrow if I really need to. All those big yards, with big riding mowers being used to trim them, all those folks want to feel like they are farmers. That’s why the lawn mowers say John Deere and look like tractors.

  148. 148
    scott (the other one) says:

    Joe Walsh is a complete and utter shitheel. But there is absolutely no chance that he’ll launch—or even attempt to launch—a first-strike nuclear attack for absolutely no reason…or because someone said something snarky on Twitter and it got under his (orange) skin. Therefore, complete and utter shitheel Joe Walsh, while a horrific choice to be president, is infinitely preferable to what we have now.

  149. 149
    James E Powell says:

    @Ruckus:

    He is the same racist asshole as all the rest of the republican party. Just in case there was any doubt.

    There was never any doubt about that. But I wonder, what does Walsh think he offers to the typical Republican voter that Trump is not already delivering on a daily basis? Racism, misogyny, hatred, unfocused anger, ignorance . . . seems like Trump checks all the boxes.

  150. 150
    Ruckus says:

    @Ken:
    We could plant the idea, but it would be wrong. It’s the language that they don’t like being said out loud in public that they don’t like. It gives away the game, especially to those who pay little attention. The stuff he does, the things he wants to do, the raids, the jailing people legally asking for asylum….. People in Hillsborough NC were outside the courthouse in robes/hoods with KKK signs. They are not even quiet about their racism any longer. They are proud of their racism. They are the republican party, every bit as much as trump is. The only thing is that they aren’t hiding any longer. You won’t beat him by trying to make him see himself as a failure, he is incapable of that. That’s his narcissism, it doesn’t allow him to see any faults in himself. All he does is double down. The never trumpers aren’t against what he’s doing, only that he’s making them look bad, their leader is a moron who has no concept of space or others or really anything not what he wants and sees as normal. And what he wants and sees as normal is that he is the greatest human ever so pay him large sums and do his bullshit.

  151. 151
    Ruckus says:

    @James E Powell:
    See my comment to Ken at #150.
    They don’t want different policies, they want to be able to do their stuff without pissing off 73% of the public, till it’s too late.

  152. 152
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    @Wapiti: Oh. Well, I wish it anyway.

  153. 153
    catclub says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    And obviously no car owner wants to spend more money on fuel than they do already.

    except for all the evidence that they are perfectly happy in the US buying giant vehicles. Yes, “given the vehicle I have, I prefer to spend less on gas”
    is true, but so what. “I prefer to spend less on gas, so I’ll get a vehicle that uses less gas” has been true about two years of the past 45 or so.

  154. 154
    catclub says:

    @sukabi: I would predict the GOP closes ranks against him and he does not even get on primary ballots.
    Hasn’t some state GOP (SC?) already cancelled the primary for 2020?

  155. 155
    J R in WV says:

    I can tell the price of fuel is way too low, when I see big vehicles, lux vehicles, 4×4 lux vehicles, in the parking lot at Kroger’s while someone is inside shopping, and someone else stayed in the vehicle. And the engine is running to keep the cool. When there is a snackbar inside with chairs, snacks, widescreen TV, wifi, they would rather burn the fuel, diminishing their average MPG, than sit inside waiting for mom or dad of big sis to finish grocery shopping.

    If gas was $8 a gallon would they still run the engine? Some would. How much does fuel mileage matter when you spend $120,000 on the car? I will confess to stopping to talk to a neighbor on our one lane roads while the engine runs, every few weeks. But we only do 4 or 5K miles a year since we don’t commute any more.

  156. 156
    James E Powell says:

    @Ruckus:

    They don’t want different policies, they want to be able to do their stuff without pissing off 73% of the public, till it’s too late.

    Disagree about the 73%. We’ve learned to our horror and chagrin that the hard Trump number is between 40-42%.

    And while I agree that there are some Republican donors and elected officials who would like to change the tone of things, the fact that Trump enrages the 58% is probably what typical Republican voters like about him the most.

  157. 157
    Ken says:

    @Ruckus: I was thinking more of getting Trump to campaign against Congressional Republicans because his feelings are hurt.

  158. 158
    Ruckus says:

    @James E Powell:
    I used that % for the obvious reason but yours is closer to the truth. I think that as we get closer to the election that may drop 2-6%, just from the amount of idiotic bullshit that will fly out of his gob in the next 14+ months. And if Walsh manages to hang on that long I’d bet he gives drumpy a run for his money. Walsh is smarter and less demented than drumpy but he is no less venial so there is a chance that he may be the gop candidate. And he’s smart and evil enough to run as not demented drumpy so that conservatives get the racism they want but with a side of not quite as sick.

  159. 159
    Ruckus says:

    @Ken:
    Sorry, didn’t see that coming. I like it. I’d hope that if he does that it won’t actually help the locals win because they end up not thinking their guy is shitty as drumpy.

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