Excellent Read: “The Summer of Warren”

Even if I am prejudiced in favor of her subject, Ioffe’s profiles are always worth reading:

Elizabeth Warren was ready for the question. She gets a variation of it almost everywhere she goes. Often, it’ll come after she’s outlined any number of the big, sweeping things she intends to do once she’s assumed the presidency—wipe out student debt, say, or bring the private equity industry to heel, or revamp the State Department. Her immodest plans tend to inspire at least a few people in every crowd to wonder the exact same thing: Really? And how do you expect you’ll do all that?

On a chilly summer evening in a high school gym in Milwaukee, I noticed she’d begun preempting the question by highlighting her own audacity.

She recounted a little story of a colleague who had once approached her on the Senate floor to suggest that an idea of hers was maybe a bit improbable. “That’s just too hard,” Warren said he told her, and added she should “smile more.” (The good, liberal crowd booed on cue.) “And here’s what I remember thinking,” she said, her voice resonating with the righteous disbelief she must have felt then. “What do you think they said to the abolitionists? ‘You’re not going to change this country, that’s too hard!’…What do you think they told the suffragettes? ‘Quit now. It’s just too hard.’ What did they say to the early union organizers? ‘Quit now. It’s just too hard.’ But here’s the thing. They didn’t quit. They persisted and they changed the course of American history!”

The stakes of Warren’s run are historically significant. She is vying to become not simply the country’s first female president, but the architect of an ambitious rethinking of American government. (Her campaign’s central question is: Who does our government work for?) Yet for all the grandness of her vision, some of her shrewdest innovations on the trail can seem almost imperceptible. Consider her selfie strategy. “We’re going to take pictures,” Warren announced from the stage, shortly after invoking those trailblazers of yore. Here was a stealth weapon available to neither abolitionists nor suffragettes. “Someone will explain whether to go to that side or that side.”…

The selfie line has, by now, become a notorious feature of a Warren event—one that reflects the campaign’s savvy as well as the candidate’s unique commitment and stamina: She stays as long as it takes to pose with every person who wants a picture. Sometimes the line is so long that this obligation requires hours of Warren’s time—as it did in Chicago in June, when over three thousand people took two and a half hours to shuffle through. “I don’t know how she does it after doing the speech and taking those questions, which is very hard,” said former Democratic Senate majority leader Harry Reid. “I’ve never known anyone to do that before. I know that when I finished my town halls, I just wanted to go home.”

Warren, however, told me that she finds the selfie line “energizing.” Earlier that day, as we chatted in her hotel, I asked her about these post-rally meet-and-greets. “The selfie line is the chance to have the direct touch,” she told me. “I get to hear from one person after another what they want me to hear. Anything! This is their chance, and they can tell me anything they want as they come through that selfie line. And it keeps me connected to people in a powerfully important way.”…

Tall and wiry, Warren visibly thrums with good cheer. She’s got that kind of pert friendliness stretched taut around a core of steel that some foreigners find confusing in certain willful Americans. But in Warren, both the chipper facade and the steel guts feel genuine: She is a very nice lady who will put up with exactly zero bullcrap

Things have changed since the last election. In part, this is because Clinton did smash a glass ceiling: She was the first woman nominee for president and won the popular vote by nearly three million votes. In part, it is because she still didn’t get the job. It went instead to a man who was not only comically less qualified than she was, but was also accused by two dozen women of sexual misconduct and, in some cases, sexual assault. The result was the Women’s March, which dwarfed Trump’s inauguration crowds the day before, the #MeToo movement, and a holy rage in women that most men can’t fathom.

Though she refuses “to relitigate 2016,” as she puts it, Warren accedes that what happened three years ago—Hillary Clinton’s run and Donald Trump’s win—makes her current quest for the White House a bit easier. “Of course, it helps that Hillary ran in 2016,” she told me. She is aware that the energy and momentum generated by a record number of women candidates in 2018—spurred on in part by the presence of a committed misogynist in the Oval Office—also help her. The path now, Warren thinks, is much better trodden. “I believe that having six women in the race right now makes it easier,” she said. “It’s good to not be the only one standing on stage who’s female. Having started teaching in law schools decades ago when there were very few women, I taught in commercial law, which was largely male. Commercial and corporate and all the money and finance courses stayed heavily male-dominated much longer than some of the other fields, and I’ve just lived through years of ‘Gentlemen! Oh. And lady.’ ” She rolled her eyes. “Years of, I’d look around the room and there’d be 50, 75, 100 people, and I’d be the only woman in the room. And the idea that right now, there are six women who held up their hands and said, ‘Yup! I’m in this race!’ It’s just fabulous!”

This was at the Iowa State Fair:






157 replies
  1. 1
    WhatsMyNym says:

    Gov. Inslee is out of the running for Pres. He’ll go for a 3rd term as Washington’s governor; pissing off some other folks who were planning on running for governor.

  2. 2
    oatler. says:

    Hope it turns out better than “The summer of George'”.

  3. 3
    WhatsMyNym says:

    @WhatsMyNym:

    No Washington governor has run for a third term since Republican Gov. Dan Evans, who ran for, and won, a third term in 1972.

    Seattle Times

  4. 4
    Chigail says:

    Um I’m getting an ad for Franklin Graham’s grift at the top here. Stop,

  5. 5
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    You knew this would happen sooner or later
    Wilmer begins desperate smears:

    During her introduction of Senator Bernie Sanders at a campaign event in Cedar County, Iowa on Monday, Oscar-winning actress Susan Sarandon took what appeared to be a swipe at his primary progressive competition for the 2020 presidential nomination.

    “When people know and when they hear the senator’s policies, when they see his track record, when they know how authentic he is and how he has been fighting for these issues for so long, he is the only one who has that reputation,” Sarandon said from the stage. “He is not someone who used to be a Republican. He is not someone who used to take money—or still takes money—from Wall Street. He is the real deal.”

  6. 6
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Go home, Susan. You’re drunk.

  7. 7
    Ruckus says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    He may be the real deal. It is a piss poor real deal, a full of shit deal, a deal that is good for only one person, BS himself.

  8. 8

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: sorry Susan, that’s just lame as fuck. Try a little harder, please.

  9. 9
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    At least then she’d have an excuse, otherwise she’s just a moron.

    Oh wait…..,,

  10. 10
    zhena gogolia says:

    @oatler.:

    You scared me, I though you meant McGovern.

  11. 11
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: she forgot to mention that he’s not a Democrat now and has never been one. Seems far more relevant than Warren’s past as a Republican since she has for years now held elective office as a Democrat.

  12. 12
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @Chigail:

    Um I’m getting an ad for Franklin Graham’s grift at the top here. Stop,

    Look at it this way, Franklin Graham is unknowingly subsidizing a site he’d undoubtedly hate, and that’s a good thing.

  13. 13
    Ruckus says:

    BS is that guy, the one that thinks his shit doesn’t stink. And he’s convinced a few other people who can’t tell shit from shinola either.

  14. 14
    zhena gogolia says:

    David Rothkopf

    Verified account

    @djrothkopf
    Follow Follow @djrothkopf
    More David Rothkopf Retweeted Holly Otterbein
    Susan Sarandon is a proven enemy of the Democratic Party. She actively helped to elect Donald Trump. Accepting her endorsement or including her in a political rally should be unacceptable to any candidate whose true priority is to ensure Dem victory in 2020.

  15. 15
    AThornton says:

    @WhatsMyNym:

    Infotainment Medium template:

    No one has x for y since the last person did x for y.

    If you can fill in the variables, you can be a journalist at a major media outlet.

  16. 16
    lee says:

    2.5 hours of selfies.

    I’m a 54 year old guy. I’m not sure I have that kind of stamina.

  17. 17
    sdhays says:

    @BruceFromOhio: Oooo!!! “Used to be a Republican”!!!

    In the last 50 years, Republicans haven’t always been the bad guys, particularly at the state level. They pretty much are NOW, but not before. It’s such a lame and pathetic attack. But not surprising coming from her.

    The funny thing is that, if anything, this “attack” would help Warren in the general election.

  18. 18
    WhatsMyNym says:

    @AThornton: I think you’re reading to much into it – – 8 years as governor here is long enough for most folks and they move on (they don’t run for a 3rd term).

  19. 19
    Josie says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    This should be stated every time Sarandon raises her head at a Dem rally. I feel the same way about Sanders. We owe much to both of them for the mess we are in.

  20. 20
    Kay (not the front-pager) says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: At least Elizabeth Warren is a Democrat now. Unlike Bernie…

  21. 21
    comrade scotts agenda of rage says:

    @lee:

    I’m 57 and a quite accomplished ultramarathoner (50K and 6 hour races). In fact, I’m in Week 6 of training for one now.

    What Senator Warren is doing leaves me in awe.

  22. 22
    Shana says:

    @Chigail: I know the irritation of those ads, but try to console yourself with the knowledge that’s they’re wasting their money. Even if it’s not much money it’s still wasted.

    ETA: or what Darrin said.

  23. 23
    trollhattan says:

    “Campaigns matter”

    So very, very true and Warren is emerging from the bloated field by campaigning smarter and probably harder than anybody else. So did Obama in 2007-8.

  24. 24
    kindness says:

    I’m a Kamela person but could easily support Warren. Honestly the MSM is once again not helping Democrats this election. I was talking with my moderate sister who lives in NYC and when the conversation came to Warren she started telling me her fears about her which are exactly the Republican talking points. I suspect she gets most her news from the GD NY Times & the evening news. I tried to show her how her fears weren’t about Warren’s actual positions but the demons out in the MSM. I’m not worried about my sis actually. She’s going to vote for which ever Democrat we nominate and so am I.

  25. 25
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Sarandon openly campaigned for current republican nominee, Dump in 2016. Now she says Dems shouldn’t nominate an actual Democrat because she stopped being a republican 25 years ago.

  26. 26
    J R in WV says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    …Sarandon… “He is not someone who used to be a Republican. He is not someone who used to take money—or still takes money—from Wall Street….”

    This is a shame. Ms Sarandon had family around here, and was well liked, before she lost her mind politically. She never mentions that Sen Sanders is NOT a Democrat, never has been. Seems fundmentally dishonest to me.

  27. 27
    the Conster says:

    My working theory on the Sanders campaign is that he’s doing it as a quid pro quo for Trump’s DOJ letting Crooked Jane off the hook for bank fraud, of which they had her dead to rights. The timing of Jeff Weaver saying the FBI *closed* the case during the week of the Blue Wave was too suspicious. Putin’s 2nd choice seems to have no interest in expanding his base,only in ratfucking to help Putin’s 1st choice to destroy our democracy. He only hired Putin’s other stooge Stein voters to surround himself with. He’s an evil fucker, and if he’s the nominee (he won’t be), or if the Dem wins, the next day Barr’s DOJ will re-open that bank fraud case and indict Jane by finding *new* evidence. Tax fraud too, probably. I’m sticking with this theory until it no longer explains what the mediocre old fraud’s campaign is doing.

  28. 28
    SFAW says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    when they see his track record,

    Which is on a par with MY “track record” as a college athlete. In other words: pretty much NOTHING for the last 40-plus years. And I use the term “athlete” VERY loosely when referring to my sports activity in college. Which is about as loosely as “legislator” should be applied to Bernie.

    On the other hand, maybe she’s just talking about being shouty, as opposed to actually getting shit done. In which case — yeah, he has me (and SPW) beat by a country mile.

  29. 29
    Betty Cracker says:

    I don’t know if Warren can win the nomination, but I think she’d be a wonderful president. She’s running to DO something, not BE somebody, and it shows.

  30. 30
    trollhattan says:

    @Josie:
    Wilmer is in town tonight for a rally. Not going, because while I’m curious I’m just not motivated. Plus it’s goddamn hot.

    Ironically, they’re going to have to boot dozens of homeless denizens of said park, which will be both amusing and ironic.

  31. 31
    Betty Cracker says:

    @zhena gogolia: Sarandon has been tangling with folks on Twitter in a really stupid, destructive way, along with a couple of Sanders campaign officials: Sirota and Gray. The latter encouraged the rabid Sanders Twitter horde to out a dude with a pseudonymous account because MSNBC had used that person’s tweet to illustrate hostility toward Sanders among many Democrats. A responsible candidate would have fired her ass for that.

  32. 32
    Elizabelle says:

    @Kay (not the front-pager):

    At least Elizabeth Warren is a Democrat now. Unlike Bernie…

    That’s the perfect comeback. And the Democrats should never, ever allow anyone who is not a Democrat run in their primaries. Just. Don’t.

    @the Conster: Is there a statute of limitations on Jane’s tax bank fraud trangressions? Or maybe it could be a civil or criminal case. Anyway, your theory makes as much sense as anything. I hope Wilmer gets walloped.

  33. 33
    NotMax says:

    How long until Sarandon begins harping on how the beginning of Warren’s name spells – gasp – WAR and therefore we’re all DOOMED if she gets the nomination? //

  34. 34
    the Conster says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m 100% convinced he’s not doing this to win. He’s a raftucker, using internet trolls and sleazes like Sarandon and grifters like Shaun King to do his dirty work. He’s a compromised traitor. The End.

  35. 35
    Elizabelle says:

    @the Conster: I hope it all comes out. It must.

    You guys, why let Susan Sarandon highjack a thread about Elizabeth Warren? It’s tedious.

  36. 36
    the Conster says:

    I just don’t understand why the other candidates aren’t going after him hard. Especially Biden, and Warren should too. If they can’t take down Sanders, they can’t take down Trump. It’s just that simple.

  37. 37
    Elizabelle says:

    Tee hee. From the WaPost: breaking:

    The chief executive of Overstock.com resigned Thursday, saying he was “far too controversial” after disclosing he had aided in a “deep state” investigation into the 2016 election and was romantically involved with a Russian agent. [That would be Maria Butina.]

    Patrick M. Byrne had led the e-commerce retailer for two decades.

    One wonders at what Overstock was hearing about this critter. I know the newspaper threads were full of commenters who were never going to shop Overstock again.

    Good.

    ETA: Overstock’s stock was down 36% after this jackhole opened his mouth with the rambling disclosure letter re Butina and his own political principles. It’s up 9% with news he is severing ties.

  38. 38
    Doug R says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: https://twitter.com/riotwomennn/status/1163630241203544069/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1163631446902394880&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alternet.org%2F2019%2F08%2Fsusan-sarandon-scorched-for-throwing-shade-at-elizabeth-warren-during-bernie-sanders-event-white-feminism-at-its-finest%2F

    So, today @SusanSarandon did the bidding of Bernie Sanders. He seems to have a toxic trickle down effect on those who support him.

    In 2015?

    Sarandon passionately urged Warren to run for President to stand up for working families, take on Wall Street banks & special interests

  39. 39
    Burnspbesq says:

    @Elizabelle:

    On the civil side, there is no statute of limitation if the underpayment shown on the return was due to fraud. The flip side is that the burden of proof shifts from the taxpayer to the Commissioner.

  40. 40
    TenguPhule says:

    The National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC), the campaign arm of House Republicans is offering donors who contribute more than $25 a limited edition t-shirt that depicts Greenland as a 51st US state.

    This was not the Onion.

  41. 41
    TenguPhule says:

    Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is imploring Democrats not to eliminate the filibuster – a procedural rule that allows the minority party to stall or block the chamber from voting on legislation or a nominee.

    “If future Democrats shortsightedly decide to reduce the Senate to majority rule, we’ll have lost a key safeguard of American government,” the Kentucky Republican writes in an op-ed published in the New York Times. “And — stop me if you’ve heard this one — they’d regret it a lot sooner than they think.”

    Fuck McConnell and FTFNYT.

  42. 42
    TenguPhule says:

    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump
    Germany sells 30 year bonds offering negative yields. Germany competes with the USA. Our Federal Reserve does not allow us to do what we must do. They put us at a disadvantage against our competition. Strong Dollar, No Inflation! They move like quicksand. Fight or go home!

    47.3K
    2:53 AM – Aug 22, 2019

    Donald J. Trump

    @realDonaldTrump
    The Economy is doing really well. The Federal Reserve can easily make it Record Setting! The question is being asked, why are we paying much more in interest than Germany and certain other countries? Be early (for a change), not late. Let America win big, rather than just win!

    43.2K
    4:21 AM – Aug 22, 2019

    The Madness deepens.

  43. 43
    TenguPhule says:

    Arkansas senator Tom Cotton said he spoke to the president about buying Greenland months ago and even raised it in a meeting with the Danish ambassador, according to Talk Business & Politics, which hosted an event in Little Rock, where Cotton made his comments.

    “Obviously, the right decision for this country,” Cotton told the group’s CEO when asked about the spat. “You’re joking, but I can reveal to you that several months ago, I met with the Danish ambassador and I proposed that they sell Greenland to us.”

    “I told the president you should buy it as well,” Cotton continued, adding later that Trump “heard that from me and from some other people as well.”

    Cotton, a staunch conservative and a close ally of Trump, said touted such a deal as strategic on the part of the US. Greenland, an autonomous region owned by Denmark, possesses “untold” economic potential and would be “vital to our national security.”

    “Anyone who can’t see that is blinded by Trump derangement,” he said.

    Sen. Cotton says he asked Danish ambassador about selling Greenland

    They are all phucking nuts.

  44. 44
    Betty Cracker says:

    @TenguPhule: The good news is he’s worried enough about losing control of the Senate to publish that steaming load of horse shit.

  45. 45
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker: True, but once again we have another example of why the FTFNYT needs to be set on fire.

  46. 46
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Stop the world, I want to get off.

    h/t Anthony Newley

  47. 47
    Baud says:

    I seem to remember the Sarandon news a few days ago. Did she repeat it, or are people just getting around to it.?

    I said last night that Warren had run the best campaign so far. The next test for her is how she handles being attacked, which she hasn’t yet (no, Delaney doesn’t count).

  48. 48
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Because we have six Elizabeth Warren threads a day? //

  49. 49
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Baud:

    It’s the same news. Somebody must have just noticed it.

  50. 50
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax: And if you think that’s bad, I just found out that you can order Pumpkin Spice Spam online.

    This is not a joke.

  51. 51
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    Did she repeat it, or are people just getting around to it.

    The latter.

  52. 52
    NotMax says:

    @TenguPhule

    Oh dear. This day has barely arrived and already I want to return it while it’s still under warranty.

    :)

  53. 53
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    OT – DH has booked his flight. He will be HOME August 31. His Visa gives him leave to remain for three years at which point he will have to reapply. He can also work (which he really wants to do). He really wants to go back into teaching so we will see. Full steam ahead!

  54. 54
    Elizabelle says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Wonderful news. Congratulations. Being able to work is huge. Yea, DH.

  55. 55
    satby says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: congratulations to you both! What a relief.

  56. 56
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @NotMax: Fabulous musical! While Anthony Newley was brilliant it was the even more brilliant Anna Quayle who played four different characters that really shone. My Mum used to play the record of the soundtrack and to this day I know all of the lyrics to all of the songs.

  57. 57
    Gravenstone says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    When people know and when they hear the senator’s (wishful but unrealistic) policies, when they see his (nonexistent) track record, when they know how (studied and affectedly) “authentic” he is and how he has been fighting haranguing for these issues for so long, he is the only one who has that (shitty but well earned) reputation

    A few modest edits to your spiel there, Suz…

  58. 58
    Betty Cracker says:

    Sounds like the Great Patriot Farmers are sick of all the winning:

    Trump Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue had an unfortunate moment when he went to talk to farmers in the upper Midwest. Trump has claimed farmers support his trade war with China, that is going into its second year.

    Farmers told Perdue that things weren’t “great” and they were concerned Americans see Trump’s bailout as a welfare program for farmers. To make matters worse, the bailouts were given to corporate farms over family farms and put those in rural areas at a greater disadvantage as they struggle through Trump’s trade war.

    After a series of stories where farmers attacked Trump for the lack of progress, the president tweeted that farmers love him.

    “This wound is self-inflicted, by our president,” said Gary Wertish, who is the president of Minnesota Farmers Union.

    “We definitely agreed with it in the beginning. But it doesn’t appear that there’s a plan B. Some of the callous comments come, especially from the president, you know, that farmers are ‘winning,’ we’re ‘great patriots,’ that’s very insulting. That’s coming from someone who never has faced the challenges of a family farmer. I go into the bank and tell the lender I can’t make the payment because we lost our market? The banker is not going to tell me you don’t have to make your payment because you’re a patriot.”

    Reap, sow, etc.

  59. 59
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker: It would be nice if they would threaten Trump instead of innocent USDA officials.

  60. 60
    TenguPhule says:

    Has anyone talked about how Dick’s Sporting Goods Stores are ending their gun sales?

  61. 61
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    @Ruckus:
    Nope. Bernie Sanders is a hypocritical fake. He’s been anti-gun control his whole career, until the Florida shooting made it a huge political issue with new voters. He immediately 180d in his positions and tried to join their first big rally, claiming he’s a leader of the movement. Same with immigration when Trump’s concentration camps became a public outrage. Sanders is a straight-up ratfucker, trying to get idealistic young voters to hate the Democratic Party. The only debatable question is if it’s ego, a grift, or he’s working directly for Russia. All three are plausible, fit facts, and could be simultaneously true.

    @SFAW:
    Not a problem. Bernie Sanders’s followers have compiled a long list of his accomplishments by saying he ‘worked with’ and ‘campaigned for’ other Senators’ legislation.

  62. 62
    kindness says:

    Don’t worry about Sarandon. She’ll be voting for Jill Stein AGAIN.

    I liked most her movies…her politics? Not so much.

  63. 63
    Miss Bianca says:

    @zhena gogolia: Yeah, baby!

    I don’t know why I hate Susan Sarandon in particular for her 2016 ratfucking – she had plenty of help from others – but as far as I’m concerned, she can not only die in a fire, I’d probably volunteer to push her into it myself.

    Until November 2016, I was pretty sure I was becoming a nicer person.

  64. 64
    rikyrah says:

    I hope a FrontPager will take this:
    Am I right that everywhere he bought the hospitals were states that refused Obamacare Medicaid Expansion?
    Go with the Con Man, rather than accept healthcare from the Black Man who was President.

    The Collapse Of A Hospital Empire — And Towns Left In The Wreckage
    By Barbara Feder Ostrov and Lauren Weber
    Photos by Heidi de Marco
    AUGUST 20, 2019

    SWEET SPRINGS, Mo. — The money was so good in the beginning, and it seemed it might gush forever, right through tiny country hospitals in Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee and into the coffers of companies controlled by Jorge A. Perez, his family and business partners.

    It was his “secret sauce,” the rotund Miami entrepreneur would smilingly tell people in their no-stoplight towns. The money-making ventures he proposed sounded complicated, sure, but he said they would bring in enough cash to save their hospital and dozens, even hundreds, of good jobs in rural towns where gainful employment is hard to come by.

    And, in town after town, the people believed him. He offered what they could not resist: hope, and the promise of survival.

  65. 65
    Mandalay says:

    @Elizabelle:

    And the Democrats should never, ever allow anyone who is not a Democrat run in their primaries. Just. Don’t.

    That sounds noble and worthy, but it’s a disastrous idea.

    If Sanders was unable to run as a Democrat then he would run for president as an independent, get ~15% of the vote, and Trump would win 2020 in a landslide.

  66. 66
    The Dangerman says:

    I’m just curious, but has anyone projected how much it would cost to actually purchase Greenland (if it were for sale, which it is not, but roll with me here)? Roughly how many Mexican Walls would that be and how would Trump have paid for it? Would he have raised taxes on the 1% (cough, sputter, aieeeeeeee) or just try to bounce a check to Denmark?

  67. 67
    Spanky says:

    @TenguPhule:

    The Madness deepens.

    Nah, I’m going to chalk this one up to mere blind stupidity.

  68. 68
    rikyrah says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Farmers told Perdue that things weren’t “great” and they were concerned Americans see Trump’s bailout as a welfare program for farmers.

    But, IT IS welfare, Dear.

  69. 69
    rikyrah says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    YEAH!!!!
    YEAH!!!!

    May you all have a party.

  70. 70
    Marcopolo says:

    @TenguPhule: I think every time McConnell says anything about the Senate it is appropriate to link this fundraising page for flipping the Senate blue in 2020.

    This page lets you donate to Democratic Senate incumbents as well as to Democratic challengers for GOP-held seats. Pick & choose which ones you want to support, or donate to all of them at once!

    The most flippy seats right now are in CO, ME, AZ then maybe NC, IA, and GA. If Bullock decides to run in MT that seat would be listed with the first three. If McConnell thinks he needs to make the case for keeping the filibuster it is quite possible the polling he is seeing is showing a good chance the D’s take the Senate in 2020.

    And this is one of my favorite parts of the GQ Warren article:

    She {Warren} recounted a little story of a colleague who had once approached her on the Senate floor to suggest that an idea of hers was maybe a bit improbable. “That’s just too hard,” Warren said he told her, and added she should “smile more.” (The good, liberal crowd booed on cue.) “And here’s what I remember thinking,” she said, her voice resonating with the righteous disbelief she must have felt then. “What do you think they said to the abolitionists? ‘You’re not going to change this country, that’s too hard!’…What do you think they told the suffragettes? ‘Quit now. It’s just too hard.’ What did they say to the early union organizers? ‘Quit now. It’s just too hard.’ But here’s the thing. They didn’t quit. They persisted and they changed the course of American history!”

    Nevertheless, she persisted!

  71. 71
    Spanky says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    He really wants to go back into teaching so we will see.

    American as a Second Language?

    Congrats and good luck to you two crazy kids.

  72. 72
    rikyrah says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Get the ENTIRE PHUCK OUTTA HERE, Turtle.

  73. 73
    the Conster says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Don’t kid yourself. They’ll pay any price for white supremacy. Idiots screaming to take their country back from Obama, are now finding themselves on the front lines of socialist state control of certain sectors of the economy, 2 years into the Four Year Plan of Leopards Eating All The Faces.

  74. 74

    @The Dangerman:

    has anyone projected how much it would cost to actually purchase Greenland

    Can’t calculate a price on something there’s no standard market for and the owner isn’t even considering selling. Nobody buys countries.

    EDIT: Not even Vlad. He’s only paying to corrupt the government.

  75. 75
    Elizabelle says:

    @rikyrah: Wow, that’s an interesting article. I had no idea that was going on.

  76. 76
    Elizabelle says:

    @Betty Cracker: from Betty’s link. A comment from the president of the Minnesota Farmers Union:

    I go into the bank and tell the lender I can’t make the payment because we lost our market? The banker is not going to tell me you don’t have to make your payment because you’re a patriot.”

    But that’s the Cheater in Chief’s modus operandi. Stiffing banks, forcing other people to swallow the loss, walking away from disaster after disaster. Sucks to be the farmers, hmmm?

    It is taking way too long to find out who was financing the Trump Organization.

  77. 77
  78. 78
  79. 79
    TenguPhule says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Nobody buys countries.

    EDIT: Not even Vlad. He’s only paying to corrupt the government.

    Rent to Own.

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Some of the callous comments come, especially from the president

    “I mean, it was one thing when those comments were directed at that bitch Hillary, but now he’s directed them to people like me…”

    They still think they are better than us.

  81. 81
    JMG says:

    It irks me no end that the Times (and the Post, which is even worse about it), publish op-eds by elected officials, be they Democrats or Republicans. They’re public figures. McConnell has the ability to go on C-SPAN and say whatever he wants on the Senate floor. Let ’em give a damn speech and cover it or not as news. If they must see their words in print, let ’em buy an ad.

  82. 82
    Miss Bianca says:

    @TenguPhule: I’m not so sure that any Trump administration official can be considered “innocent”. Certainly not Sonny fucking Perdue.

  83. 83
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Mandalay: You’re probably right. I suspect this puts me in the minority here, but I don’t believe Sanders is a witting Putin accomplice or committed enemy of the Democratic Party. I think he’s a self-righteous old fart who’s high on his own stash. He has and may again cause damage, but it’s probably better to keep such a person inside the tent than not.

  84. 84
  85. 85
    rikyrah says:

    @the Conster:

    this theory works for me

  86. 86
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: She actively campaigned against Secretary Clinton and voted for Jill Stein after Bernie lost the nomination. Sarandon is clueless and needs to take several seats.

  87. 87
    Brachiator says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    “He is not someone who used to be a Republican. He is not someone who used to take money—or still takes money—from Wall Street. He is the real deal.”

    Has Wilmer ever been a Democrat?

    It’s good to know, I guess, that people like Sarandon never change. We need to crush Wilmer’s dreams early and hard.

  88. 88
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker: He still votes the right way most of the time in the Senate, which is more then we can say about some of the actual Democrats.

  89. 89
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @Gravenstone: I listen to the Majority Report with Sam Seder and company and they are head over heels for Senator Sanders. You’d think he was the Messiah the way they gush over him. I don’t get it but I’ll vote for him over Trump, of course.

  90. 90
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Patricia Kayden: The Messiah? I thought that was Trump’s role now?

  91. 91
    chris says:

    @The Dangerman: Bounce a check to Denmark? Got you covered.

    Trump’s ambassador to Denmark, who has now been handed a diplomatic mess, is a conspiracy-minded, climate change denying, former actress, turned private chiropractor, turned GOP donor. https://t.co/c8xdTtQXVFWith @willsommer— Sam Stein (@samstein) 22 August 2019

  92. 92
    Brachiator says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    He has and may again cause damage, but it’s probably better to keep such a person inside the tent than not

    I think you’re right about Sanders. A hard core of his base seem to be perpetually alienated from either party.

  93. 93
    Marcopolo says:

    @rikyrah: I live in MO & back in 2018 when I was going to outstate town halls to hear Claire McCaskill & knocking on doors for a state house candidate in central MO I spent time in several communities which had recently lost or were on the cusp of losing their local hospital. I also feel like I read something about this lab test scam back then as well. Thinking it was some reporters from the Missourian (paper in Columbia, MO) who were…

    Just went and looked it up at the newspaper website. It was this article almost a year ago:

    Kansas couple says hospital billing scheme spread to others

    Glad to see it is getting wider coverage now, but the rural hospital situation in states that did not do the Medicaid expansion is horrendous atm.

  94. 94
    Yarrow says:

    @Mandalay:

    If Sanders was unable to run as a Democrat then he would run for president as an independent, get ~15% of the vote, and Trump would win 2020 in a landslide.

    Very true. It’s much better to let him sink on his own merits while ostensibly inside the Democratic party tent.

    @Betty Cracker: Why not both? A guy who honeymooned in the Soviet Union while already an elected official in the United States was an obvious target for kompromat collection. The old Soviets were known for cultivating assets early. He one of only two Senators (Rand Paul was the other) to vote against sanctions on Russia. He can be a Russian asset and an old crank with an ego. Our job is to see through people like that and make sure they don’t get into power.

  95. 95
    Brachiator says:

    BTW, Millennials, people born between 1981 and 1996 may be the largest voting Bloc in 2020. This is according to Professor Stella Rouse, who has a new book out about this group.

    Also, the Pew Research people recently put out a report that included this little tidbit

    Midterm voter turnout reached a modern high in 2018, and Generation Z, Millennials and Generation X accounted for a narrow majority of those voters.

    It will be interesting to see how the Democrats play to these groups. I suppose that the college proposals are part of this.

  96. 96
    TenguPhule says:

    @Yarrow:

    He one of only two Senators (Rand Paul was the other) to vote against sanctions on Russia.

    To be fair, Sander’s argument for that was that it also targeted Iran for no good reasons.

    And we’ve all seen how its worked out. Zero enforcement of the sanctions against Russia, while increasing on Iran.

    So that vote really didn’t matter.

  97. 97
    catclub says:

    @TenguPhule: I thought Denmark should have said, we will consider offers above $60Tr – in Euros, not dollars printed by the US. I bet at 1 cent a gallon, the water alone is a steal. (I suspect bulk water does not cost that much. Anybody know?)

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule:

    If that were the only vote, it wouldn’t matter. But he has a pattern of avoiding votes against Russia.

  99. 99
    Gin & Tonic says:

    From WaPo via Twitter: “White House considers new project seeking links between mental health and violent behavior.”

    I can well remember when the USSR would diagnose political dissidents as “mentally ill” and confine them to institutions.

  100. 100
    Marcopolo says:

    Democratic National Committee Votes To Reject Climate Debate

    The vote came a day after the 2020 climate candidate Jay Inslee, who had been pushing for the debate, dropped out of the race.

    Symone Sanders, a senior adviser of presidential candidate Joe Biden, was among those who urged the DNC committee on Thursday to vote down a climate debate, saying it would be “dangerous territory in the middle of a Democratic primary process.”

    That contrasts with what Biden had earlier said during a campaign stop in Iowa this summer. The former vice president had endorsed having a climate debate, telling Greenpeace, “I’m all in.”

    This does not affect the planned CNN Climate Change town hall thingie next month which is not a formal debate but would prevent there being an official DNC sanctioned debate focusing on climate change.

    Btw, anyone hear anything about massive swathes of the Amazon burning over the past few days? Asking for a friend.

  101. 101
    TenguPhule says:

    @catclub:

    (I suspect bulk water does not cost that much. Anybody know?)

    Normally its priced per thousand gallons.

    Normally works out to less then one cent a gallon. Unless you are unfortunate to live in one of the armpits of America.

  102. 102
    TenguPhule says:

    @Marcopolo:

    Btw, anyone hear anything about massive swathes of the Amazon burning over the past few days? Asking for a friend.

    Brazil’s president is currently insisting that his political opposition is intentionally lighting all those fires to make him look bad.

    Apparently Donald Trump is contagious.

  103. 103
    Elizabelle says:

    @Marcopolo: Yeah. Have become interested in shyster Jorge A. Perez and his Empower schemes.

    From the Fulton, Missouri Sun, June of this year:

    Anatomy of a hospital billing scheme
    Perez-associated hospitals affected, some closed

  104. 104
    Marcopolo says:

    @catclub: I think Denmark should have called Putin and offered to buy the US.

    ps i stole this from somewhere else…not original material…but i thought it was pretty funny.

  105. 105
    Denali says:

    I really support Elizabeth Warren and am happy to see a thread about her, instead of he who will not be named. Why do we waste time on Susan Sarandon and Bernie Sanders?Sanders is not going to win the nomination. We have a great candidate; lets get behind her!

  106. 106
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    But he has a pattern of avoiding votes against Russia.

    And Manchin has a pattern of voting for the worst Republican nominations. But we still got to suck it up and support him for the greater good.

  107. 107
    catclub says:

    @Gin & Tonic: If the GOP actually supported funding for better mental health treatment, of any type, it would probably be the first time. If they supported it and it had an emphasis on gun control/red flags/etc, I would be doubly surprised.

    Instead they will identify something useful that Democrats like and want to take the funding from cutting that.

  108. 108
    Brachiator says:

    @chris:

    Trump’s ambassador to Denmark, who has now been handed a diplomatic mess, is a conspiracy-minded, climate change denying, former actress, turned private chiropractor, turned GOP donor.

    Wow. She certainly failed “up.” To be fair, it’s unclear the degree to which she has continued to guide her husband’s business. But like other ambassadors with plum assignments, she has zero foreign policy experience. But Denmark was probably supposed to be non-controversial.

  109. 109
    the Conster says:

    @TenguPhule:

    He voted the day before that vote to tie Iran sanctions to Russian sanctions, then voted against Russian sanctions and said it was because of Iran. His cult of dipshits swallow everything that fraud says whole.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    From WaPo via Twitter: “White House considers new project seeking links between mental health and violent behavior.

    It’s terrifying- thinking of some Fox news host and any other assorted grifters who apply “analyzing” anything related to vulnerable people with mental illness. OTOH. The Trump Administration announced they were addressing gun violence after the Florida school shooting, they gave it to Betsy DeVos and she convened a series of meetings – the Trump hires attended only the first one, for photographs and they passed out some money. So other than wasting tens of millions of dollars there was no harm done because there was no work done.

    We’re saved a lot of the time because they barely show up for work.

  111. 111
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule: That’s a relevant argument to make if Bernie wins the nomination. Not in the primary.

  112. 112
    Baud says:

    @the Conster: Oh, I didn’t know about that.

  113. 113
    brantl says:

    @Betty Cracker: What people don’t know about McSuckel is that he is incontinent, and walks on his hands, backwards, that stuff he’s spewing isn’t hot air.

  114. 114
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Yarrow: There’s so much embarrassing shit on Sanders out there already, including video of him sitting around in his underwear singing “The Internationale” with Soviet friends, video of him attending a Daniel Ortega rally where people were chanting “die Yankee die” or whatever. I guess anything is possible, but I think Sanders is exactly who he appears to be: a gadfly with a giant ego.

  115. 115
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Denali: I’m for Warren too, but there’s by no means a consensus around here yet! :)

  116. 116
    Elizabelle says:

    @Denali: Yup. I love Elizabeth Warren.

    Why waste energy on Trump?

  117. 117
    the Conster says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    That’s what we know about was filmed in Russia – you can be sure there is more we haven’t seen.

  118. 118
    Kay says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    It’s amusing because they elevate and exaggerate what are ordinary things every President does. Ivanka does exactly what a First Lady might do as far as “policy” but she’s really good at making it seem bigger :)

    They’re pros at not doing anything but seeming to be doing something. A “project” you say? Hmmm. What does that entail, exactly?

  119. 119
    Dan B says:

    @Marcopolo: Amazon fires have been featured in The Guardian, Huffpost, and front page of Seattle Times. Between these fires and Siberia / Alaska we may be looking at the abyss.

    Bolsonaro’s interior minister (I believe) was booed at a big public forum. The smoke was thick enough to turn Sao Paulo, hundreds of miles away, pitch dark and spread a thousand miles to the Atlantic.

    It may not be viable to plant a trillion trees a year if that many burn each year and the new trees find themselves in baking droughts.

    The World Economic Forum reports that investment in fossil fuel power increased in 2018 while renewable investment remained the same. Lack of government action was the reason. Steering towards the abyss.

  120. 120
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @TenguPhule: That cinches it. Someone has done the geo-petro analysis and there’s a HUGE oil pool under Greenland.

  121. 121
    Kay says:

    The U.S. manufacturing PMI (purchasing managers index) was 49.9 in August, below the neutral 50.0 threshold for the first time since September 2009, according to IHS Markit.
    New orders received by manufacturers dropped the most in 10 years, while the data also showed export sales tanked to the lowest level since August 2009, the data shows.
    The survey is an initial reading for the month of August. The final figure will be released Sept. 3.

    Man-u-fact-uring. I told you-all. I swear, people complaining about not getting overtime in this county is all you need to know. They are a leading indicator :)

  122. 122
    Miss Bianca says:

    @rikyrah: I tried reading that article and just got too infuriated to finish it. Fuck these asshole red-staters that refused the Medicaid expansion. Paving the way for hucksters like this. I’d say they got what they deserved, but no one deserves to have their hospitals bankrupted. Those politicians who thought they’d show the uppity black President that he and his fancy Obamacare weren’t the boss of them, nosiree? *They* deserve to be tarred, feathered, and denied medical services afterwards. But as Reid Fleming, World’s Toughest Milkman, so pungently observed: “The RIGHT people NEVER get hurt.”

  123. 123
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: No wonder Trump is shitting his pants.

  124. 124
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay: I suppose having to eat a 25%+ hike in their materials cost was a bootstrap too high for them to pull themselves up.

  125. 125
    TenguPhule says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    , but no one deserves to have their hospitals bankrupted.

    I’ve come to the conclusion that Republicans do.

  126. 126
    Brachiator says:

    @the Conster:

    That’s what we know about was filmed in Russia – you can be sure there is more we haven’t seen.

    There is no Soviet Union. There is no Soviet communist state opposing the US.

    Trump is a puppet of an active criminal regime which controls Russia. He is more a danger than Wilmer.

    I pretty much detest Sanders, but I don’t see how he could have transferred loyalties, if he had any, from a bunch of commies to a bunch of crooks.

  127. 127
    Yarrow says:

    @the Conster: This, this, this. The good stuff won’t be made public. Gah.

    @Betty Cracker: The Russians were boosting him in 2016. It’s in the Mueller report. He should have come out strong against Russia and he didn’t.

  128. 128
    Brachiator says:

    @Kay:

    The U.S. manufacturing PMI (purchasing managers index) was 49.9 in August, below the neutral 50.0 threshold for the first time since September 2009, according to IHS Markit.

    I kinda glossed over this at first. But first decline since 2009? Very Interesting.

    Maybe Trump will still be obsessed over Greenland and miss this info….

  129. 129
    Yarrow says:

    @Brachiator: Once they own you they own you. The “loyalty” was transferred on the Russian end.

  130. 130
    the Conster says:

    @Brachiator:

    Russians cultivate assets for decades. Trump was cultivated in the 80s, around the same time as Sanders was there while Putin was rising in the KGB. Putin is the world’s biggest mob boss, and there isn’t anything that he won’t do to get what he wants. Trump has a lot of what Putin has, including now, through Barr, all of the Epstein evidence, and if you don’t think Crooked Jane’s bank fraud case was politicized to get Bernie to play along OR ELSE, then I can’t help your naivete. Bernie’s got those rape essays and those weird essays fixating on young girls’ sex lives. If you don’t think there’s more there, again, I can’t help you.

  131. 131
    TenguPhule says:

    Planned Parenthood clinics in several states are charging new fees, tapping financial reserves, intensifying fundraising and warning of more unintended pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases after its decision to quit a $260 million federal family planning program in an abortion dispute with the Trump administration.

    The fallout is especially intense in Utah, where Planned Parenthood has been the only provider participating in the nearly 50-year-old Title X family planning program and will now lose about $2 million yearly in federal funds that helped 39,000 mostly low-income, uninsured people. It plans to maintain its services — which include contraception, STD testing and cancer screening — but is considering charging a small copay for patients who used to get care for free.

    Planned Parenthood seeks cash after bailing from federal program

  132. 132
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I don’t know. It’s cyclical so the older people are accustomed to boom and bust. They all knew it was going to end. How bad off they are often depends on how much they borrowed. Auto loans are HUGE now. The amount borrowed. It’s insane. They’ll owe like 60k on a truck, which is literally more then their house, and of course the truck depreciates. There’s also a newer process that I didn’t use to see- they roll over the debt from the last car they couldn’t afford into the new car they can’t afford. Negative equity. It’s just magical thinking. There’s no way the car is worth that much. It’s an unsecured loan. They may as well just lend the money outright. The collateral doesn’t cover the loan.

  133. 133
    the Conster says:

    @Yarrow:

    Once you work for Putin or the mob (same thing), you always work for them. HELLO TAD DEVINE.

  134. 134
    Brachiator says:

    @Yarrow:

    Once they own you they own you. The “loyalty” was transferred on the Russian end.

    That Sanders is currently owned by Russia simply because he visited the old Soviet Union requires actual evidence, not the application of templates from spy novels.

    With Trump you at least have indirect evidence of contact with actual Russians and some traceable financial connections.

  135. 135
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Brachiator:

    THE COMMIES ARE THE SAME PEOPLE AS THE CROOKS

  136. 136
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Planned Parenthood clinics in several states are charging new fees, tapping financial reserves, intensifying fundraising and warning of more unintended pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases after its decision to quit a $260 million federal family planning program in an abortion dispute with the Trump administration.

    Damn.

  137. 137
    Baud says:

    We’ll need to vet our electors better.
    .

    Federal appeals court rules in favor of Colorado’s ‘faithless electors’

  138. 138
    Yarrow says:

    @the Conster: Yep.

    @Brachiator: Not just because of that. It was just an early and known opportunity for kompromat collection. Tad Devine is another connection. As the Conster said, there is plenty of questionable activity. Sanders has had plenty of time and opportunity show he’s not involved with Russia. He hasn’t done that to my satisfaction. Perhaps he has done so to yours.

  139. 139
    Brachiator says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    THE COMMIES ARE THE SAME PEOPLE AS THE CROOKS

    Yes. I know. I also know people who actively supported the Soviet Union because they passionately believed in communism. And there were people who voluntarily worked for the Soviets because they believed in the cause, even though the system was obviously corrupt.

    Could Sanders have been compromised or his sympathies exploited? I suppose. Got proof?

    @the Conster:

    Bernie’s got those rape essays and those weird essays fixating on young girls’ sex lives.

    Wow. He’s a regular Nabokov. Must mean… something.

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    There’s also a newer process that I didn’t use to see- they roll over the debt from the last car they couldn’t afford into the new car they can’t afford. Negative equity. It’s just magical thinking. There’s no way the car is worth that much. It’s an unsecured loan. They may as well just lend the money outright. The collateral doesn’t cover the loan.

    Welcome to the wonderful world of credit default swaps II, Same Shit, Shitter collateral.

    Its basically the same brilliant idea they came up with during the Housing Crisis. Only this time they decided auto sales were the new tulips.

    Interesting times ahead.

  141. 141
    TenguPhule says:

    @Baud:

    We’ll need to vet our electors better.

    Baud 2020 is going to impose a loyalty oath?

  142. 142
    the Conster says:

    @Yarrow:

    He’s been more consistent playing footsie with Russian sanctions than he has anything else in his career. He’s filthy. His campaign was designed by Tad Devine to split the winning Obama coalition up to give cover to Russian interference, which we still don’t understand the full scope of. Jill Stein votes provided the winning margin in a few, the other Putin stooge.
    Sanders knew that his campaign was being helped and he refused to say anything, and now he’s surrounded himself with Jill Stein voters in this campaign. Everyone needs to wake up.

  143. 143
    Brachiator says:

    @Yarrow:

    Sanders has had plenty of time and opportunity show he’s not involved with Russia. He hasn’t done that to my satisfaction. Perhaps he has done so to yours.

    Involved with Russia. Kinda vague. Sanders is not my guy. If there are reporters digging away at a Wilmer/Russia connection, God bless ’em. Otherwise, I don’t much care until he gets closer to the nomination. Would you like to have him investigated for possible expulsion from the Senate?

  144. 144
    the Conster says:

    @Brachiator:

    Are you serious right now? Is there something you want to confess to, or is it just A-OK for the *Dem* candidate to be sketchy creepy perv too?

  145. 145
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    I pretty much detest Sanders, but I don’t see how he could have transferred loyalties, if he had any, from a bunch of commies to a bunch of crooks.

    There are no loyalties in the relationship between Sanders and the Russian intelligence services. They own him top to bottom, front to back, based upon their kompromat regarding his activities as a young Marxist. He has no choice but to do as his handlers suggest. Just like Comrade Trump!!

    This isn’t hard, are you not paying attention? ;-)

  146. 146
    Yarrow says:

    @Brachiator: I would like people who have accepted help from enemy states to be exposed, removed from politics and punished appropriately. I don’t care if they’re Republicans, Democrats or whatever party Sanders is a member of at the moment. As a Senator he has the potential to do damage, so I’m fine if he goes so long as he’s replaced by a loyal Democrat.

  147. 147
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    Could Sanders have been compromised or his sympathies exploited? I suppose. Got proof?

    We aren’t prosecutors, just voters, we only need indicators and suggestions. If I was on a jury, I would be all over looking for proof. I’m not on a jury, not even writing investigative stories about Comrade Sanders.

    If all I suspected was that Sanders was a Marxist, I might still vote for him.

    But by the time the Soviet fell, it was wholly corrupt, and everyone knew that, except Senator Sanders… And Russia is even more corrupt today than the Soviet was in its day.

    ETA fix formatting

  148. 148
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    I can well remember when the USSR would diagnose political dissidents as “mentally ill” and confine them to institutions.

    The US right (and I think DJ Trump) is big on reversing de-institutionalization, which mostly driven by old memories of arguments the right lost in the 60s and 70s. Also reading between the lines (as you did), they want to bring back easy involuntary commitment for those deemed dangerous to the state to be likely future mass murderers. That’s anti-individual-freedom bullshit, so such plays will get a lot of hard and harsh pushback.

  149. 149
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    The ghost of James Jesus Angleton is pretty active on this thread.

  150. 150
    Brachiator says:

    @J R in WV:

    We aren’t prosecutors, just voters, we only need indicators and suggestions

    Yes, the Internet standard for proof is effectively zero.

    Let’s say that Wilmer somehow becomes the Democratic Party nominee. What are you going to do?

    Meanwhile, I understand all the concerns about Wilmer. I file it away, but otherwise there is nothing that I can do with any of it.

  151. 151
  152. 152
    zzyzx says:

    My big night terror is that Warren/Biden/Booker/etc wins around 280 EV next year and a combination of people who wormed their way into the process, a few tricksters like 2016, and some electors having family members kidnapped or something leads to enough voting for Trump. It’s an obvious problem with our system and I don’t think we survive it.

    As for Warren, the post above is why I can’t buy into her the way others can. Her entire brand is about having plans, having thought deeply about issues and what’s important. When asked how it’ll come to pass, she just hand waves and obfuscates. It’s a classic politician non answer.

    It’s a legitimate question and IMO she needs a better answer than America is great and we have done hard things before.

  153. 153
    Annie says:

    @Marcopolo:

    This reminds me of a great story about Franklin Roosevelt. An aide, listening to him spin another grand plan, said “Mr. President, you can’t do that!” to which FDR replied, “I’ve done a lot of things I can’t do.”

  154. 154
    Annie says:

    @Bill Arnold:

    I was on the sharp end of de-institutionalization back in the 1970s. My uncle had been placed in a mental hospital because of paranoid schizophrenia with violent episodes — violent like he tried to shoot the neighbors and his sister, my mother, whom he adored when he was in his right mind. When his hospital closed in the 1970s my grandparents were in their seventies and too old to cope with him — he was 6’5″ and quite strong and still subject to hallucinations and nice episodes of throwing furniture. They couldn’t afford a private mental hospital and there were no other public facilities in Florida that could/would take him. Somehow they managed to get him SSI (I think, I was in my teens and in college and not told all the details) and found a board-and-care home near their own home that would accept him. But for about 2 months it looked like I was going to have to drop out of college, and another relative leave his job, and both of us move into my grandparents’ house to try to help with his care.

  155. 155
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    Let’s say that Wilmer somehow becomes the Democratic Party nominee. What are you going to do?

    I will fight against his nomination until the National Convention completes the nomination. Then I will probably shut up, and vote for the other Russian stooge. But I don’t think that’s in our future — too grim for me.

  156. 156
    Chris Johnson says:

    “I don’t know how she does it after doing the speech and taking those questions, which is very hard,” said former Democratic Senate majority leader Harry Reid. “I’ve never known anyone to do that before. I know that when I finished my town halls, I just wanted to go home.”

    Maybe you should learn, Harry.

  157. 157
    Yarrow says:

    @Chris Johnson: What does he need to learn? He’s retired. He’s a great politician and his machine has helped turn Nevada blue. He’s dealing with long term effects from his injuries and also has pancreatic cancer, which is in remission. What exactly do you want from him?

Comments are closed.