Open Thread: Some Candidates Can Walk *and* Chew Gum..

In a letter to Barrack, the lawmaker highlighted deals the financier’s Colony Capital Inc. arranged after he met with Saudi officials including Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman while serving as head of Trump’s inaugural committee and as an adviser to the presidential transition team. The transactions were the subject of a recent Bloomberg article…

Bloomberg reported on Aug. 1 that a vehicle co-managed by Colony focusing on digital infrastructure investments had received backing from the kingdom’s Public Investment Fund, and that Barrack’s firm was in talks regarding a media venture that would make PIF a co-investor in a Hollywood studio. Such a stake would fulfill the Saudis’ longtime goal of getting a foothold in the entertainment business…

Warren, a contender for the Democratic nomination to challenge Trump in next year’s election, has been pushing for legislation to enhance ethics requirements for presidential transition teams. Her letter asks Barrack to respond by Aug. 23 with a description of his Los Angeles-based firm’s involvement with the Saudi sovereign wealth fund, including a timeline of their talks and information on whether administration officials were aware of them.

Among other questions, she asked Barrack:

– why he didn’t register as an agent of a foreign government;

– whether he is advising the president on policies including a potential nuclear cooperation agreement with the Saudi government;

– whether Barrack or Colony employees are in talks with the president or his administration over digital infrastructure; and

– whether Barrack has used any non-public information gleaned from administration sources for business purposes…

And yet…

Some of these Democrats prefer Mr. Biden, viewing him as an acceptable option to a cross-section of voters, but others are eager to find a middle ground between the consensus-oriented former vice president and progressive firebrands like Ms. Warren and Senator Bernie Sanders.

“If it were completely up to me, I’d vote for her,” said Jessie Sagona, who also came to see Ms. Warren last month in New Hampshire. “But I kind of feel like, do we need somebody in the middle like Kamala or Pete,” referring to Ms. Harris and Mayor Pete Buttigieg. Ms. Sagona said she had not fully made up her mind but was weighing the importance of “thinking strategically.”…

I’ve said before that I doubt Warren would consider serving with Kamala or Pete (or Cory or Beto) as the worst possible fate. And as yet, most voters aren’t really paying attention, although… Charlie Pierce, for Esquire:

She draws enormous crowds and enormous ovations from those crowds. People see her and holler, unbidden, “Big Structural Change!”—the tagline for all her now-famous syllabus of plans. They chant, “Two cents!”, the amount of each dollar over $50 million she proposes to tax to finance the implementation of those plans. (This is reminiscent of the night at the 2012 Democratic National Convention in Charlotte, when the crowd chanted, “Consumer Finance Protection Bureau,” at her, which was not an easy thing to chant.) And, in the polls, she can’t be said to have had a “moment” yet, but her rise has been steady, easing fears that she might be peaking too soon. She is now a solid second to Joe Biden, and it is still only August of 2019.

But the thing that’s sold Elizabeth Warren to Iowa is primarily Elizabeth Warren. None of the candidates seems to be having as much fun as she is. The endless selfies after speeches. The pinky-swears with young girls about how what girls do is run for president. Her willingness to hold town halls anywhere. That loose-limbed, almost goofy wave with which she steps onto every stage. In a gloomy political time, with a humorless sociopathic bully in the White House, and with all the worst impulses of the national Id come out to play, Senator Professor Warren is the campaign’s happy warrior, the teacher everybody hopes they get when school starts up again in the fall. People respond to the good feeling around her campaign as much as they respond to the blizzard of policy proposals that campaign has loosed upon the electorate…

And the people who come expecting a Dukakis or a Kerry come away happily surprised. And the people who come away expecting an ivory-tower Harvard lecturer leave feeling smarter, and experiencing the conquest of learning in a way they haven’t felt it since elementary school. None of this is to say what may happen when the guns really open up on her, but it is to say, for now, that Elizabeth Warren is running a campaign of hope and optimism and enthusiasm as surely as did Ronald Reagan, that ol’ Iowa radio guy, in 1980, and as surely as Barack Obama did in 2008…






91 replies
  1. 1
    Duane says:

    Senator Professor Warren sounds pretty cool. President Professor Warren sounds even better.

  2. 2
    MattF says:

    So, SA is a desert and a swamp. Who coulda guessed?

  3. 3
    Zinsky says:

    An Elizabeth Warren/Julian Castro ticket would be a dream ticket for me. It would also appeal to a broad spectrum of the American people. Castro’s presence on the ticket would be a big “FU” back at Trumpo, as well.

  4. 4
    dr. bloor says:

    Is there a handy term— like mansplaining or microaggression— to describe when someone likes a woman but defers anyway to others’ more negative views?

    I’ll stick with “misogyny.” Sometimes the classics tell the story best.

  5. 5
  6. 6
    MattF says:

    @dr. bloor: Hillaryschaden.

    No, I haven’t gotten over it.

  7. 7
  8. 8
    Miss Bianca says:

    @dr. bloor: I’m with you. Or with her. Or something. Anyway, right on.

  9. 9
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: It’s only out now? Summer is over. Kids are back in school.

  10. 10
    Quinerly says:

    @Yarrow: what he read this summer.

  11. 11
    MattF says:

    @Quinerly: I read Ted Chiang’s stories, and they are excellent SFF tales. One feature of Chiang’s short-story collections is that they include a section with brief discussion/explanations of each story.

  12. 12
    Yarrow says:

    @Quinerly: Oh, okay.

  13. 13
    tokyokie says:

    @Zinsky:

    An Elizabeth Warren/Julian Castro ticket would be a dream ticket for me. It would also appeal to a broad spectrum of the American people. Castro’s presence on the ticket would be a big “FU” back at Trumpo, as well.

    Warren-Castro is my dream ticket as well, and my dream is that it, along with der Trumpenführer’s immigration policies, inspires Latinos in the Rio Grande Valley to flex their heretofore unexercised political clout in the same way as their brethren in California did in the wake of Pete Wilson and Prop. 187.

  14. 14
    p.a. says:

    About ‘certain’ candidates there will always be ‘but’s, even from a cohort of self-proclaimed progressives.

  15. 15
    Amir Khalid says:

    This is not a comparison I thought I’d ever read about a presidential candidate:

    Here she is at the state fair, talking to a crowd along one of the wide boulevards, the people who couldn’t find spots in the huge crowd that waited in stifling heat to hear her at the Des Moines Register’s candidate soapbox out front, the way Bruce Springsteen turns around to play to the crowd sitting behind the stage.

  16. 16
    NotMax says:

    Yuck. Popped awake in pre-dawn darkness to the sight of digital clocks blinking.

  17. 17
    FlyingToaster (Tablet) says:

    @Yarrow: Huh? School starts the day after Labor Day, at least up heah in the frozen north. Next week is WarriorGirl’s last week of summer camp.

  18. 18
    Fair Economist says:

    Some school districts here in Cali have already started. My city starts this coming week.

  19. 19
    zhena gogolia says:

    I guess I’d just like to see some front-page posts on some of the other candidates once in a while. Doesn’t have to be by AL. Biden, Harris, and Buttigieg are all viable candidates who are saying great things.

  20. 20
    Jinchi says:

    Remember all of those people who said they didn’t have a problem voting for a woman because they would support Liz Warren? Wonder where they all went

    I don’t really understand that comment, considering she regularly polls in second or third place, has been rising steadily in the polls since she entered the race and is well liked, even by people who don’t list her as their first choice.

    It’s pretty good odds that she’ll be the Democratic nominee a year from now.

  21. 21
    Gelfling 545 says:

    One thing that pleases me immensely about Warren is that, unlike more commercial politicians seems to genuinely like people and be interested in them. I contrast this with Bernie who seems mainly concerned with ideology much like clergy who are more concerned with orthodox doctrine than the souls committed to their care.
    Speaking of doctrine, orthodox & otherwise, read Jim Wright’s (Stonekettle) short story, “The Deserter” in Alternative Apocalypse. I read it 3 days ago & am still turning it over in my mind. The rest of the volume merits perusal as well. Great stuff.

  22. 22
    Doug R says:

    One thing that pleases me immensely about Warren is that, unlike more commercial politicians seems to genuinely like people and be interested in them. I contrast this with Bernie who seems mainly concerned with ideology much like clergy who are more concerned with orthodox doctrine than the souls committed to their care.

    Harris has been impressing young women as well:
    .@KamalaHarris to young woman in Iowa: “You never ask anyone to give you permission to lead.”

    Then asks her to repeat it back to her. 💀
    https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1159647911422156800

  23. 23
    Yarrow says:

    @Jinchi: I don’t understand that tweet either. Seems like lots of people are supporting her and she’s rising in the polls.

  24. 24
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @zhena gogolia: AL has picked her person, and, as it appears that she is the only one posting about candidates, it like the front page is going to be a Warren for President zone for a while.* I have to admit that Warren is not doing it for me. There is nothing wrong with her, but I am feeling the same amount of enthusiasm about her that I felt about Gore. I was very enthused about both Clintons, about Kerry, and about Obama. Right now, I am seeing a Harris-Mayor Pete/Beto ticket as my preferred result. I do not think that a Warren-Harris or Harris -Warren ticket as a good idea at all; If one of them gets the nomination, I want the other to stay in the Senate.

    *I am not casting aspersions on AL’s asparagus here. She has no obligation to post about other candidates.

  25. 25
    Yarrow says:

    I was approached by a Klobuchar canvasser at a public park last week. Told him no thanks, but glad to see candidates and their supporters out there working. No, this wasn’t in an early state.

  26. 26
    Baud says:

    @Jinchi:
    @Yarrow:

    I assume it’s impatience that she’s still lagging behind Biden and, in some polls, Bernie.

  27. 27
    Jim Parish says:

    @MattF: I have, but haven’t yet read, Exhalation, but Stories of Your Life and Others blew me away. The last story, “Liking What You See: A Documentary”, was particularly thought-provoking, but all of them were excellent.

  28. 28
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I agree with you completely. Although I think I was more enthusiastic about Gore than you were (at least until he picked Lieberman). I guess the other front-pagers aren’t that interested!

  29. 29
    Brachiator says:

    I like Warren. I prefer Harris. I hope Harris continues to do well.

  30. 30
    Yarrow says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: @zhena gogolia: I’m generally with you guys. I like Warren a lot but prefer her in the Senate. I’m very neutral on the presidential race except for the three I can’t support (Wilmer, Hawaiii rep, and Marianne). I’ll see how it shakes out closer to the time.

    That being said, there are important state elections this very year in Virginia and in other states. I’d like some attention on those. I’d also like a lot of attention on Senate races, which I think are possibly more important than the presidential race.

  31. 31
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Yarrow: I’ve always liked Klobuchar, I’m a little surprised how poorly she’s doing, but I’m at a point where I want all the under-5%ers to pack it in. Every time I see their fund-raising numbers I think that’s GE/down-ticket money set on fire

  32. 32
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Yarrow:

    Betty reproached me last night for being happy that Hickenlooper is likely to beat Gardner.

  33. 33
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Yarrow:

    Nothing’s more important than the presidential race.

  34. 34
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud: I guess so. It comes across as whining to me. There are so many candidates, many of them very qualified women. Maybe those people are supporting other women candidates.

  35. 35
    Yarrow says:

    @zhena gogolia: I saw it as a thought experiment. If Colorado is blue then we might want a lefter Senator and not just a centrist. I’m not an expert on Colorado so don’t know if a lefter candidate could win.

    I’m with you, though. I’m all about winning. Like Nancy Pelosi says, “Just win, baby.”

    @zhena gogolia: If Dems had both houses of Congress Trump would be much less able to do what he wants. Also, better investigations. I understand your perspective, though.

  36. 36
    Jinchi says:

    @Baud:

    I assume it’s impatience that she’s still lagging behind Biden and, in some polls, Bernie.

    Polls at this stage are fine for determining the major contenders, but let’s not overstate them. For perspective, take a look at the polling trends in 2008. Clinton and … Giuliani (?! I always forget Giuliani was once considered a major contender for the presidency) both dominated their respective primaries right up until January 2008. McCain and Obama both trailed the leaders, often by 20-30 points, and surged literally just as people were actually deciding who to vote for.

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/2008_republican_presidential_nomination-2741.html

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @Jinchi:

    Yeah, I know. I’m not the one complaining (although I am impatient for people to give up on Bernie).

  38. 38
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: @Yarrow: that tweet is replying to this one

    Monjula Ray @ queerBengali
    Liz Warren is to the left of Bernie.

    Liz Warren is younger than Bernie.

    Liz warren does not hire trolls and her staff does not doxx people.

    You people who call yourselves as leftists and STILL support Bernie over Liz, do it because of misogyny. Nothing more nothing less.

    I’m not convinced that Warren is to the left of Bernie. I’m always a bit confused by professional centrist types, and some polls, who indicate that she spooks the Green Room horse as much as The Great Bellower. The way they talk about her (pretty popular, AFAIK) plans for taxing the rich demonstrates once again that, however “liberal” pundit types are about guns or gay rights, they all seem to have learned their economic/fiscal tropes from the various Pete Peterson outfits.

  39. 39
    Yarrow says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Thanks for the context but I still don’t get the tweet. I agree I’m not sure she’s to the left of Bernie.

    I think her being a Republican until 1996 is a issue that isn’t discussed very much. No idea how that would play for her in the general election.

  40. 40
    Cacti says:

    @Baud:

    Yeah, I know. I’m not the one complaining (although I am impatient for people to give up on Bernie).

    Among his true believers, I think that could only be accomplished with intensive cult deprogramming therapy.

  41. 41
    West of the Rockies says:

    Deadish thread maybe, but I’ll add that, to my eyes, Harris also looks pretty happy on the trail.

    Yes, AL is clearly championing Warren. I like Warren very much, but I’d still prefer Harris. I would be happy with either. Castro, Booker, Pete as VP would be fine by me, though after inauguration, VP becomes IMO sort of unimportant usually. It would be a waste for a Warren/ Harris ticket. We’d lose two excellent senators. YMMV.

    I’m okay with people trashing Wilmer, Williamson, Gabbard, and a few others. I’d prefer if commenters not insist over and over on announcing how much they hate Pete and Booker and the genuinely well-intentioned and potentially useful others still in the mix.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m not convinced that Warren is to the left of Bernie. 

    FWIW, I also don’t really care who is to the left of whom.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @Yarrow:

    No idea how that would play for her in the general election.

    It seems more like an issue in the primary than a GE issue.

  44. 44
    Brachiator says:

    A rather silly recent article on problems with polls

    Volatile presidential polls spark new round of anxieties

    Public opinion surveys have varied by the day, particularly in the early-voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire, where some candidates can point to individual polls to argue they are building momentum….

    The different signals in the polls has even experts questioning who is up, who is down, and whether the horse race surveys can be trusted.

    One of my favorite pollster rationalizations: early polls are unreliable and the public is stupid (but we gotta poll anyway)

    Some say the political amateurs and professionals should just give it a rest when it comes to polls.

    “It’s August of 2019, the horse race polls are absolutely worthless,” said Chris Kofinis, a Democratic pollster.

    Or, when in doubt, blame the media.

    Some also point the finger at the media, saying voters are quick to change their minds based on the latest news cycle.

    Here, I would only say that real human beings are not obligated to satisfy pollsters. If they have not made up their minds, or are reacting to new information provided by the “latest news cycle,” where’s the problem?

    But I absolutely love the Wilmer Waffle. The love of his supporters cannot be contained or measured by mere polls because his mojo is so powerful.

    The Sanders campaign has flat-out rejected polls that find him losing ground, saying the surveys don’t reach his young supporters or capture the activist energy around his campaign.

    They were irritated with the Monmouth poll that found him with just 9 percent support in Iowa.

    But it don’t matter. Polls will go on. Because nobody likes horse race simplifications more than people who claim to hate horse races.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/457750-volatile-presidential-polls-spark-new-round-of-anxieties

  45. 45
    Yarrow says:

    @Baud: I thought it would be, but it doesn’t seem to be. I’m wondering if it might work for her in the general. “i’m more centrist than you think. I was a Republican but left when they stopped being true to their and American values.” Or something like that.
    @West of the Rockies:

    I’m okay with people trashing Wilmer, Williamson, Gabbard, and a few others. I’d prefer if commenters not insist over and over on announcing how much they hate Pete and Booker and the genuinely well-intentioned and potentially useful others still in the mix.

    Agree. I’ve enjoyed having all the candidates in the mix. We learn a little about them, they raise their profile. We have a lot of qualified Democratic candidates representing various parts of the Democratic party. That’s a good thing.

  46. 46
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: yeah, under the best case scenario, by which I mean the Dems run the table and get a narrow Senate majority, it’s a less relevant question than how many Joe Manchins can dance on the head of a pin. And I don’t know if Mark Kelly would be on board for a Revolution.

  47. 47
    pat says:

    @Yarrow:

    If Dems had both houses of Congress Trump would be much less able to do what he wants.

    What? If dems win the Senate there will be no Trump! And I think the Senate is just as important as the presidency.
    And I want to see Warren on the debate stage with trump. She will eviscerate him.

  48. 48
    Cacti says:

    @Baud:

    It seems more like an issue in the primary than a GE issue.

    I’m certain that the GOP slime machine would attach it to the Native American thing, as part of the narrative that Warren is a conniving harridan who would do anything to get ahead.

    And the librul media would gobble it up.

  49. 49
    Jinchi says:

    @Yarrow:

    I’d also like a lot of attention on Senate races, which I think are possibly more important than the presidential race.

    I agree, although I’d put it that winning the presidency is the most important race, since that’s vital for putting an end to the active harm Trump is doing to the country. I’d happily vote for any of the major Democratic candidates and virtually all of the minor ones (sorry Tulsi).

    Winning the Senate is critical for getting legislation passed so that we can solve the country’s core problems. I’m hoping the field is trimmed down to the top 4 or 5 candidates after September and that the rest join Hickenlooper in pursuing more strategic objectives.

  50. 50
    germy says:

    What’s going on with Zogby? “Poor performances of Democrats boost Trump’s approval to 51%, up with Blacks and Hispanics”

    Really?

  51. 51
    trollhattan says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    I can’t recall at this point–did Gore have any meaningful competition for the nomination? As VP he had the inside track although it was weird that Bill Clinton didn’t aggressively campaign for him.

    Gore was lousy on the stump but I had no problem voting for him, agreeing with him on most issues, especially climate. (Gee, how is that working out for us?) And of course, Gore won the election.

    Warren is earning every gained point by out-campaigning the giant, giant field. She’s nothing like Gore on the stump and I, for one, appreciate what she’s accomplishing. She can win this thing, “thing” being the White House.

    That’s all I care about.

  52. 52
    Cacti says:

    @trollhattan:

    As VP he had the inside track although it was weird that Bill Clinton didn’t aggressively campaign for him.

    Gore didn’t want him to.

    Huge strategic blunder.

  53. 53
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @germy: IIRC he went nuts in ’08. Went from PUMA to Naderite to I don’t what the hell. I may be conflating him with Atrios and his commenters, but he’s definitely been off the rails for a while

  54. 54
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    Sounds like a bad poll.

    ETA: as in badly conducted.

  55. 55
    Cacti says:

    @germy:

    Zogby is a C-rated poll by 538.

  56. 56
    Yarrow says:

    @pat: That is the most likely scenario, yes, but it’s possible that Trump could win the presidency and Dems could win the Senate. Unlikely but possible.

    I think Harris would be worse for Trump on the debate stage.

    @Jinchi: Just to be clear, I think getting rid of Trump is essential. I also think more attention on Senate races is essential because getting rid of McConnell is almost as important. I’ve been encouraged by how much attention is being focused on the Senate now. The #MoscowMitch stuff is fantstic.

  57. 57
    West of the Rockies says:

    @trollhattan:

    Whoever wins, I hope they have strong Congressional support. Is there a realistic chance we win back the Senate? God, I loathe Traitor Turtle. Can he please just stroke out or crack his shell and die?

  58. 58
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Have to admit, I am a Warren for POTUS fan. Didn’t start out that way – was pissed as hell at her for a while about her apparent support for Wilmer’s “PRIMARIES WUZ RIGGED, MAAAN” stand as well as what I thought were disingenuous and misleading statements about the TPP – but have definitely come round.

    Harris is my second favorite, still think she *might* have the edge over Warren in that “toughness v. Trump” vibe that everyone apparently thinks is so crucial to success – but I *like* Warren’s “I have a plan for that!” vibe and her enthusiasm – someone called her a “happy warrior”, and that’s what she seems like to me.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @trollhattan: He did not want Clinton too involved in his campaign. For the same reason that he chose Lieberman. He was either generally bothered by Clinton’s philandering or he thought that the American people were.

  60. 60
    Baud says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    was pissed as hell at her for a while about her apparent support for Wilmer’s “PRIMARIES WUZ RIGGED, MAAAN” stand

    It took me a very long time to get beyond that, but she’s run an excellent campaign, so I put it behind me.

  61. 61
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Yarrow: Colorado is not blue enough for me to feel comfortable about taking chances. So I am a “Please, fucking please, God, let Hick see the light and run for Senator” gal. Spoken as a Colorado resident in a blood-red county, where “Recall Polis!” and “Second Amendment Sanctuary Community” status is an actual thing.

    @trollhattan:

    although it was weird that Bill Clinton didn’t aggressively campaign for him.

    Am I the only one who seems to remember that Gore *actively distanced himself* from Clinton during the campaign?

  62. 62
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: tried to edit that comment because I got it wrong. Apparently Zogby worked on Obama’s ’08 campaign. Josh Marshall linked to that poll the other day with a comment like, “LOL, there he goes again”, which was the first time I’ve seen or thought of his name in a while, but I do recall that he doesn’t seem to be taken as seriously as he once was by the Left Blogosphere, which is also not what it was ten for fifteen years ago.

  63. 63
    Yarrow says:

    @Miss Bianca: That’s been my impression. I have friends and family who have lived in CO for a long time and that’s the impression I’ve got from them. I’m really glad Hick is considering running. Just win, baby.

  64. 64
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Miss Bianca: “Second Amendment Sanctuary Community” status is an actual thing.

    Good lord. That’s a new one for me, but now that I’ve heard of it: Of course.

  65. 65
    trollhattan says:

    @West of the Rockies:
    A verifiable non-expert, when I look at the roster of senate seats in play next year, I don’t see the path. Some indictments would be nice. (Moscow Mitch, please report to the Capitol Police.)

  66. 66
    Brachiator says:

    @Yarrow:

    I think her being a Republican until 1996 is a issue that isn’t discussed very much

    I don’t get why this matters. Are people supposed to be natural born Democrats?

    What voter demographic cares about this?

  67. 67
    Jinchi says:

    @germy: Zogby has been called out by other polling groups for years now, mainly for relying exclusively on online polling and for conducting push-polls.

    The Worst Pollster in the World Strikes Again
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/worst-pollster-in-world-strikes-again/

  68. 68
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @trollhattan: I’m trying to think if there are vulnerable Dems besides Doug Jones, and I can’t think of one. Gardner is generally called the most vulnerable R, but I have a bad feeling about Susan Collins. Her patron (I think) Bill Cohen was all over my TeeVee a few months back, the leading voice for that letter signed by a bunch of ex-Senators that wasn’t quite a repudiation of trump– I think it was a bipartisan plea for norms and civility. He was on MSNBC and said with great emphasis, “I am not a Donald Trump Republican”. I wanted the anchor to ask him if he was a Susan Collins Republican. If he doesn’t endorse her opponent, his alleged principles are as worthless as hers.

  69. 69
    Cacti says:

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t get why this matters. Are people supposed to be natural born Democrats?

    What voter demographic cares about this?

    You underestimate the deviousness of our opponents.

  70. 70
    Eolirin says:

    @Cacti: If you think that has any possibility of being an issue for Warren, I think you underestimate her. She’s talked about her conversion before. It involves doing the math on poverty and bankruptcy laws. Attacking her on having been a republican lets her talk about that, and if you’re a republican, you do not want her talking about that.

  71. 71
    Jinchi says:

    @Yarrow:

    I think her being a Republican until 1996 is a issue that isn’t discussed very much. No idea how that would play for her in the general election.

    I don’t know why that would play at all outside the primary, but to be accurate, she considered herself an independent and registered as a Republican from 1991-1996 (which is a bit different from “being a Republican until 1996”).

    I was an independent. I was with the GOP for a while because I really thought that it was a party that was principled in its conservative approach to economics and to markets. And I feel like the GOP party just left that. They moved to a party that said, “No, it’s not about a level playing field. It’s now about a field that’s gotten tilted.” And they really stood up for the big financial institutions when the big financial institutions are just hammering middle class American families. I just feel like that’s a party that moved way, way away.

    So she left the party 23 years ago because she felt they were being bought off by big business. After creating the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and being a fierce advocate against corporate greed as Senator, you’d have to work pretty hard to make this a problem for her.

  72. 72
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Eolirin: I suspect it will only be an issue for those determined to find a reason not to vote for anyone who isn’t their one and only, and if it isn’t that, they’ll find another reason.

  73. 73
    sdhays says:

    @Cacti: My impression looking back over those years is that the “liberal” (conservative) media was extremely good at getting inside the heads of Democratic politicians and consultants. The media was convinced that Bill was a liability, and Gore and his people believed them.

    Democrats still aren’t immune from that nonsense, but they are a lot better at recognizing it than they were in those days.

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator:

    It’s worse than being a Goldwater Girl, but that was still a talking point in 2016.

    Still, I don’t think anyone will care.

  75. 75
    Brachiator says:

    @Cacti:

    You underestimate the deviousness of our opponents.

    I saw Obama whip the GOP’s ass twice. Easily.

    Maybe GOP deviousness is not all it’s cracked up to be, especially since they ended up with a piece of shit like Trump.

  76. 76
    West of the Rockies says:

    If I can go dark for a minute, I really, TRULY want Turtle to go away. He’s 77, starting to fall and damage himself, looks overweight and sweaty, is under stress… He is vile and destructive and needs to go. Is it foolish to hope age catches him soon? He is not likely to be on-scene much longer, is he?

  77. 77
    Yarrow says:

    @Brachiator: I don’t know what voter demographic might care about it, but I’m sure if one does that it will prove useful in ads.

    @Jinchi: Thanks for the clarification. I don’t necessarily see it being a problem for her but perhaps an advantage in the general. “She’s more centrist than we thought; she used to be a Republican.” or something like that.

  78. 78
    Brachiator says:

    @Baud:

    It’s worse than being a Goldwater Girl, but that was still a talking point in 2016.

    There are talking points that circulate in a political junkie echo chamber and talking points that resonate with voters. The Goldwater Girl nonsense never meant anything to normal people.

    I saw some Wilmer fans latch onto this, but these dopes don’t matter. They were looking for anything to justify their mad disdain of Hillary.

    And besides, right now Warren is loved by many of the same people who love Bernie.

  79. 79
    Miss Bianca says:

    @West of the Rockies: I’d love to see him get defeated and THEN die horribly, but I am kind of a shitty person that way.

  80. 80
    HRA says:

    @Brachiator:

    That sentence of Warren being loved by the same people who loved Bernie may be the central problem for some voters.
    I am out the door in minutes to attend a family picnic. I will check later tonight on anyone’s thoughts.

  81. 81
    John S. says:

    I’m also a big fan of Warren, and I think she definitely has some crossover appeal.

    I work with a guy who was a Trump supporter (until he took office) and a guy who is a libertarian. We don’t often agree on anything political, but Warren is the only candidate speaking out an issue where we do agree: ending leveraged buyouts.

    We work for a very large company that was almost brought to ruin by a vulture capital firm, so it’s personal for all of us.

  82. 82
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Oh, that would be nice though! A crushing ego defeat, loss of power, the onset of irrelevance, and the immediate arrival of pain and humiliation…

    I’m not normally so hateful. This man, however, purposefully, gleefully, and with great self-regard hurts people. He’s not just someone with philosophically different viewpoints.

  83. 83
    debbie says:

    @Quinerly:

    I just finished Nickel Boys. What a writer!

  84. 84
    Cacti says:

    @Brachiator:

    I saw Obama whip the GOP’s ass twice. Easily.

    So, is your point that Warren is the 2020 Obama?

    What color is the sky in your world?

  85. 85
    SFAW says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I’d love to see him get defeated and THEN die horribly, but I am kind of a shitty person that way

    I’ve read and re-read the first part of your comment, and for the life of me, I can’t figure out how those wishes make you a shitty person.

  86. 86
    Brachiator says:

    @Cacti:

    I saw Obama whip the GOP’s ass twice. Easily.

    So, is your point that Warren is the 2020 Obama?

    No. Not at all. But I thought I was pretty clear.

    I don’t find comments about “the deviousness of our opponents” to be meaningful in any way.

    And Trump is not devious. He is sloppy, open, clumsy and arrogant. He is giving his base exactly what they want. Tax Cuts, racism, sexism. This shit ain’t subtle. The fight against it ain’t gonna be subtle, either.

  87. 87
    Groucho48 says:

    How many people who voted for Clinton in 2016 won’t vote for Warren? How many in those three states who voted third party or who didn’t vote at all because Hildebeast would do the same with Warren? Or, Harris?

    My guess is not very many.

  88. 88
    Ruckus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    That was an own side there, running away from BC and Lieberman sort of clinched that he was running as fast as he could away from Clinton. And yet Gore actually won. One has to wonder that if he hadn’t been running so fast from Bill, he might not have grabbed from the wrong worst bin at the VP store.

  89. 89
    Cacti says:

    @Brachiator:

    And Trump is not devious. He is sloppy, open, clumsy and arrogant. He is giving his base exactly what they want. Tax Cuts, racism, sexism. This shit ain’t subtle. The fight against it ain’t gonna be subtle, either.

    Trump has a certain low animal cunning to him, but I agree he’s not devious. His superiors in Moscow on the other hand are a different story.

  90. 90
    Capri says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I like Amy K as well and after throwing her a few dollars early on get several emails a day. She is doing something pretty smart, IMHO, in the last appeal she said that what was most important was that any Dem win the presidency so half the money anybody donates will go to her campaign and half will go to a general re-election fund.
    It made me think that she’s building up a dowery that goes with her if she’s a VP pick.

  91. 91
    James E Powell says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    He was either generally bothered by Clinton’s philandering or he thought that the American people were.

    The press/media certainly thought it was the most important thing about Clinton. And the Republicans were running on a “restore dignity” theme.

    Lieberman is and always has been odious to me, but the Village loves him. Lieberman is how Gore almost won or maybe actually did win Florida. What states did Gore lose because of Lieberman? I can’t think of a single one.

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