Ding Dong (Open Thread)

Friends, let us savor (even though the fare is provided by Politico):

‘I’m worried’: Allies fear NRA has lost its power in Washington

The National Rifle Association’s internal turmoil is preventing the once-mighty organization from crafting a plan to blunt the latest gun control push, highlighting the group’s weakness at a crucial political moment.

The disarray at the NRA is alarming allies who say President Donald Trump and Congress appear to have a brief opening to pass legislation while the group is so politically feeble it isn’t able to aggressively lobby lawmakers against proposals or hold them accountable for their votes, according to a half-dozen Republicans familiar with the situation…

Multiple Republican Senate offices said they haven’t heard from the NRA, which touts 5 million members. The NRA has been slow to respond to the litany of scandals. And Trump has told aides the NRA is vulnerable and on the verge of being “bankrupt,” according to a Republican close to the White House.

The article says Republicans are worried that meaningful gun safety legislation will be passed in the short term. They needn’t be. Trump has already moved on to blaming mass shootings on the closure of old-timey insane asylums.

It’s perfectly on-brand for Trump to question the death merchant lobbyist’s fiscal health after they gave him $30 million in 2016, but a Venn diagram of gun nuts and Trump supporters would be damned close to a perfect circle, so he’s unlikely to cross the NRA in any significant way.

Still, it’s glorious to see the blood-gargling sociopaths at the NRA engulfed in cascading corruption scandals like common TV preachers. LaPierre seems determined to cling to power, which is great news for people who wish the organization a messy, protracted demise.

An unfavorable election cycle that sweeps NRA toadies out the door might finally wrest political power from the organization’s cold, bloody hands. It wouldn’t solve our gun nut problem, but it sure would make it harder for gun nuts to impose their will on the majority of Americans. A girl can dream, anyway.

Open thread!

123 replies
  1. 1
    Nicole says:

    An unfavorable election cycle for the NRA might result in Congress permitting funding for studies of gun violence and those studies actually being able to make suggestions based on findings. That would be an excellent start.

  2. 2

    And Trump has told aides the NRA is vulnerable and on the verge of being “bankrupt,”

    If there’s one thing that Trump knows about, it’s bankruptcy.

  3. 3
    Spanky says:

    If you looked at “The NRA” in terms of money flowing in, I’m pretty sure it would be about 95% gun manufacturers and 5% everybody else. IOW, I suspect those 5 million (a pretty small group for a nationwide org) have very little leverage, both within the NRA and electorally.

  4. 4
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Sad! Fuckem!

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    Saw the title and immediately thought, “Avon caliing!”

    The persistent effect of Madison Avenue, eh?

  6. 6
    Johannes says:

    May it be so! Meanwhile, from West-by-God Virginia, the alleged idjit alllegedly behind the NYC subway rice-cooker/not a bomb scare was taking an old meme a little too ….literally, from the chicken’s perspective

  7. 7
    TS (the original) says:

    The article says Republicans are worried that meaningful gun safety legislation will be passed in the short term

    That a major political party would worry that gun safety be enforced – it is not only the president* who has mental health issues.

  8. 8
    A Ghost To Most says:

    If former Gov. John Hickenlooper runs for U.S. Senate, he will immediately have a large lead over current front-runners in the Democratic field, according to a new poll.

    Six hundred likely Democratic primary voters in the state were polled and 61% preferred Hickenlooper, compared to 10% for Mike Johnston and 8% for Andrew Romanoff. Fifteen percent were undecided and 6% favored Secretary of State Jena Griswold, who said Friday that she isn’t running in 2020.


    Good and bad. Hick would kill Gardner, but he’s a militant moderate.

  9. 9
    lamh36 says:

    Look at this: 500 flower arrangements and counting for Margie Reckard who will be buried, soon, 1 of the 22 El Paso victims. There’s been an outpouring of support for Margie’s husband Antonio who invited the public to attend her service.


  10. 10
    lamh36 says:

    Follow Follow @DavidBegnaud
    Look at this: 500 flower arrangements and counting for Margie Reckard who will be buried, soon, 1 of the 22 El Paso victims. There’s been an outpouring of support for Margie’s husband Antonio who invited the public to attend her service.


  11. 11
    lgerard says:

    Certainly enjoyed today’s stories about Tammy Faye LaPierre!

    Sometimes it is just the petty corruption that brings down the whole house

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    LaPierre has managed to defeat a number of RW stars, including Oliver North and Chris Cox— he may have a secret sauce, but if the NRA goes down, I’d bet that he goes down with it. I’m guessing that they’re all pining for the days of Charleton Heston.

  13. 13
    Joe Falco says:

    With all the articles about how Millennials kill everything, I would be glad to take credit for killing the NRA.

  14. 14
    NotMax says:


    When it comes to the Senate, our need is for warm bodies there, not limited to pure bodies.

  15. 15
    Miss Bianca says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Hick would kill Gardner. Period. That is all that need be said.

  16. 16
    zhena gogolia says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    So it would be better to have a leftie who lost to Gardner?

  17. 17
    NotMax says:

    My bad. #14 was intended as @A Ghost To Most.

  18. 18
    zhena gogolia says:

    Good one, Amy!

    Follow Follow @amyklobuchar
    The difference between Donald Trump and Greenland? Greenland is not for sale.

  19. 19
    debbie says:


    How great is that!!!

  20. 20
    BC in Illinois says:

    From CNN: ” Here’s what you should know about the gun safety rallies happening across the US this weekend ”

    From Shannon Watts:

    Have you signed up yet to attend a #RecessRally this weekend? Do it now! Text RALLY to 644-33. It will take every single one of us getting off of the sidelines in order to beat the gun lobby.

    Find a Rally Near You:

    In St Louis, we meet at the Arch at 12. (If you want to find me, I’ll be the one in the red shirt.)

  21. 21
    debbie says:

    The article says Republicans are worried that meaningful gun safety legislation will be passed in the short term.

    If this doesn’t show what a craven bunch of cowards the GOP has become, nothing will.

  22. 22
    Betty Cracker says:

    Sounds like Hick isn’t the only militant moderate. 🙄

  23. 23
    Steve in the ATL says:


    If you looked at “The NRA” in terms of money flowing in, I’m pretty sure it would be about 95% gun manufacturers and 5% everybody else.

    If you’re referring to US flow, then maybe. But for years the NRA has been a channel for Russian money to flow to Republican operations.

  24. 24
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Just people who understand how the Senate works.

  25. 25
  26. 26
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    Dream on, girl!

  27. 27
    BC in Illinois says:

    From the Tampa Bay Times:

    “How do you tell a 10-year-old little girl who got a Ruger 10/22 with a pink stock for her birthday that her rifle is an assault weapon and she has to turn it over to government or be arrested for felony possession?” [NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer] said.

    Think of the children!

  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    This is a stain on this country😠😠😠😠

    Juan Escalante (@JuanSaaa) Tweeted:
    A man decided to seek asylum and medical care in the US for his son, whose heart was failing.

    After crossing the border, Border Patrol sent the man to a detention center in GA.

    The boy was sent to a foster home in NY where he was sexually molested. https://t.co/XkXegJNYFy https://twitter.com/JuanSaaa/status/1162388436889849862?s=17

  29. 29
    Patricia Kayden says:

    The NRA may be less powerful but until I see Republicans actually passing legislation regarding gun control, I wouldn’t count them out.

  30. 30
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @zhena gogolia: Greenland is also not Putin’s bitch who’s been sucking the Kremlin’s asshole since 1987.

    *Full page newspaper ads*
    “Uhhhhhh….NATO’s a total loser! Sad!”

  31. 31
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    The NRA may be less powerful but until I see Republicans actual passing legislation regarding gun control, I wouldn’t count them out.

    Don’t hold your breath.

  32. 32
    Jay says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    https://www.reuters.com › article
    U.S. firearms distributor files bankruptcy as gun sales fall under …
    Jun. 10, 2019 · USC carries such brands as Glock, Remington, Ruger and Smith & Wesson. The firearms industry has faced pressure on sales after Trump’s 2016 election eased gun control fears, even as a spate of U.S. mass shootings has prompted calls for more curbs on gun ownership (For a link to the report, click reut.rs/2MEnMDc).

    By some accounts, the US hit “peak gun” during the Obama years as the 3% ammosexuals filled their basements to the brim,

    Since then there have been sales, mergers and bankruptcies.

    I doubt that much of the cash the NRA gave Wussolinni has American sources.

  33. 33
    Brachiator says:

    Fonda was 79 years old. Somehow seems too young. I associate him with the 60s and rebellion.

    A little tidbit from his biography

    In 1966, Fonda was arrested in the Sunset Strip riot, which the police ended forcefully. The band Buffalo Springfield protested the department’s handling of the incident in their song “For What It’s Worth”.

    Lot of discussion recently about Woodstock, the Dylan concert at the Isle of Wight in 1969. Fonda and Easy Rider, definitely part of the times.

  34. 34
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @BC in Illinois: How was FOX not screaming its head off when Obummer took everyone’s guns?!

  35. 35
    lumpkin says:

    Looks like kayfabe to me. IF they pass anything it will be meaningless. Dupes at NYT et al will fall for it. Takes the heat off repubs until at some point in the future they can point and say “see? Gun control doesn’t work.”

  36. 36
    Sure Lurkalot says:

    Johnston is moderate compared to Romanoff, and without Hickenlooper, may have a decent shot. I would prefer someone to balance out Bennet, but Hickenlooper is fairly popular outside of our liberal enclaves. I think Bennet seeks comity but is more realistic than Hickenlooper in its pursuit…his experience and their friendship may help Hickenlooper become a decent senator. Cory has to go and having two democratic senators, as well as state trifecta, hopefully will push the square state ever leftward.

  37. 37
    Betty Cracker says:

    @zhena gogolia: You torched a straw man.

  38. 38
    Brachiator says:

    OT. Wells Fargo seems less interested in banking than in continually coming up with new and innovative ways of stealing from their customers.

    Xavier Einaudi did not want to wait for Wells Fargo to send him a check.

    The bank informed Einaudi that it was closing all 13 of the checking accounts it provided his roofing company, CRV Construction, for a reason it called “confidential.” The letter said the accounts would be closed on June 27, and he would be mailed a check for the balance in his accounts.

    Einaudi went to his branch and collected the money, so he did not have to wait for a check to arrive in the mail. But the accounts did not close on the preset date.

    For weeks after the date the bank said the accounts would be closed, it kept some of them active. Payments to his insurer, to Google for online advertising and to a provider of project management software were paid out of the empty accounts in July. Each time, the bank charged Einaudi a $35 overdraft fee…

    By the middle of July, he owed the bank nearly $1,500….

    Current and former bank employees said Einaudi was charged because of the way Wells Fargo’s computer system handles closed accounts: An account the customer believes to be closed can stay open if it has a balance, even one below zero. And each time a transaction is processed for an overdrawn account, Wells Fargo tacks on a fee.

    The problem has gone unaddressed by the bank despite complaints from customers and employees, including one in the bank’s debt-collection department who grew concerned after taking in an estimated $100,000 in overdraft fees over eight months.

    It is not clear how many people have been affected, but aggrieved customers have brought complaints to the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, griped on the discussion sites Reddit and Quora, and voiced their displeasure through the “Community” section of Wells Fargo’s website — a public comment feature that is now disabled.

    A spokesman for the bank said he could not comment on specific accounts for privacy reasons, but said the bank reviews accounts to protect customers and was “committed to doing so in ways that minimize the risk and impact to our customers.”

    “As a company, we are focused on continually improving this process,” said the spokesman, Jim Seitz.

    And the Republicans keep telling us we don’t need consumer protection or regulation of the financial industry.


  39. 39
    debbie says:


    Loved Easy Rider! (Great soundtrack, too.)

  40. 40
  41. 41
    kindness says:

    I wouldn’t count my chickens. If there is one group of stupid that is even more stupid than the rest, it’s the gun humpers. They will throw money at the NRA just like crooked preachers.

  42. 42
    Danielx says:

    @BC in Illinois:

    Actually there are any number of ads out there showing how a Ruger 10/22 can be tricked out with 30 round magazines and tactical bullshit….so I can’t feel too bad for the ten year old moppet

  43. 43
    NotMax says:

    @Sure Lurkalot

    If the tarantulas don’t get ya first.


  44. 44
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Brachiator: Easy Rider debuted on July 14, 1969

  45. 45
    trollhattan says:

    Oh damn, safe travels, Wyatt.

  46. 46
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @BC in Illinois: I think the harder conversation is telling the ten year old what pieces of shit her parents are for giving her an assault rifle

  47. 47
    trollhattan says:

    @Joe Falco:
    “Finish him!!!”
    /scary vidgame voice

  48. 48

    people who wish the organization a messy, protracted demise.

    I would be happier with an immediate, catastrophic failure that causes massive collateral damage.

  49. 49
    trollhattan says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    But, but, but…pink!

  50. 50
    NotMax says:

    @Steve in the ATL

    Yup. We outlawed lawn darts, but handing over to a young child a machine intentionally designed to injure, maim and kill is hunky-dory?

  51. 51
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Joe Manchin is nominally a Democrat. Would Hick be the new Manchin? Be careful what you wish for.

    eta Russians suck.

  52. 52
    Jay says:


    Only took one lawn dart death, too

  53. 53
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Let’s hold off on dancing on the NRA’s grave until it is deader than Jacob Marley.

  54. 54
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: Think of all the lawn dart massacres! I’ll wait while you try to remember a single one.

  55. 55
    OldDavd says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I’m trying to puzzle out what makes a 10/22 an “assault rifle”.

  56. 56
    Barbara says:

    Sometimes I allow myself to dream of a November 2020 where I am singing this song at the top of my lungs. At least once a day.

  57. 57
    NotMax says:

    @A Ghost To Most

    Voting against one’s party leadership when they are in the majority is a much steeper hill to climb than when they’re in the minority. Also too, Colorado (with apologies to Mr. Cole) ain’t West Virginia.

  58. 58
    mrmoshpotato says:


    But, but, but…pink!

    That just makes it more disturbing.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @mrmoshpotato: You obviously weren’t in Bowling Green. You wouldn’t talk that way if you had been there. The horror…..

  60. 60
    zhena gogolia says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    It’s very important to have a certain number of Democrats in the Senate in order to get things done that Democrats want done. Some of those Democrats are going to be very liberal, if they live in predominantly liberal states. If they live in more mixed states, like West Virginia or Colorado, they might have to be a little farther right in order to get elected to the Senate. Then things like the ACA can get passed. So I would prefer for moderate Hickenlooper to defeat CORY FUCKING GARDNER than to have a very liberal candidate lose. I know exactly what I wish for.

    ETA: Slovak-English-German-American here.

  61. 61
    Lalophobia says:

    @BC in Illinois:
    She’ll live.


  62. 62
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: KellyAnne Conjob forgot to mention that it was the Bowling Green Lawn Dart Massacre.

  63. 63
    NotMax says:


    Curiously enough, it turned out that “when they’re outlawed only criminals will have lawn darts” wasn’t a consequence at all.

  64. 64
    Barbara says:

    @NotMax: Nope. Denver County was in the top 5 of counties by margin that weren’t “majority minority ” to vote for Obama in 2012.

  65. 65
    Sure Lurkalot says:

    @NotMax: Yikes. But no matter where you live, there’s always something. I’ve had the pleasure to visit almost all the islands of Hawaii…didn’t encounter any scorpions or centipedes, but oh my, were there plenty of feral cats and mean ass chickens on my last visit to your paradise.

  66. 66
    Jay says:

    126 House Democrats now support an impeachment inquiry!Here's a great list by state so you can check on your member of Congress. Keep the pressure on! No one is coming to save us! #WeThePeopleMarchhttps://t.co/cMYEGoIDFc— Amy Siskind 🏳️‍🌈 (@Amy_Siskind) August 16, 2019

  67. 67
    lgerard says:


    Thanks a lot!

    Now I have that song stuck in my head

  68. 68
    J R in WV says:


    Sadly, we no longer have any Democratic members of the House of Representatives from West Virginia. None.

    So Fuck all those Republicans who seem to be fine, just fine, with all the illegal and immoral acts of the current Republican Trump administration!!!

  69. 69

    Today’s edition of watching my rights being taken away in real-time:

    The Trump Administration Asked The Supreme Court To Legalize Firing Workers Just For Being Transgender

    Although the administration was expected to take the stance — and had previously said firing workers on the basis of gender identity is legal under federal law — the latest court filing asks the nation’s top court to establish federal case law in a potentially sweeping setback for LGBTQ rights nationwide.

    The case is a dispute over the word “sex.” Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 bans workplace discrimination because of sex, but the court’s justices have never decided what, precisely, the term means for LGBTQ workers.

    The Justice Department’s brief on Friday contends the word refers to a person’s “biological sex” and, further, that transgender discrimination isn’t addressed by a 1989 Supreme Court ruling that found Title VII bans sex stereotyping.

    If the SCOTUS agrees, aside from being disastrous for LGBTQ people in itself, and trans people in particular, the “biological sex” argument is a stalking horse for Fundabigots to get the law changed so that one’s gender is tied to the sex one was assigned at birth and can never be changed — with the aim of not only preventing trans people from ever changing their legal ID, but also retroactively changing the legal gender for those of us who’ve already changed it. So that trans people are outted, in order that we can be targeted with all the other forms of legalized discrimination — with the full weight of the government behind it — that they’re also implementing in order to eradicate trans people from public life.

  70. 70
    Ruckus says:

    I got a $5 gift card from BofA as a discount on getting my car serviced. I tried for over 1/2 hr to get the card authorized for use. It wouldn’t let me. I would have liked it better if they had just kept the five dollars and sent me an “Enjoy the nothing you are getting from us!” letter.
    I used to be a customer of BofA, none of this is any surprise to me at all. It was very enjoyable to take my money out and put it in a small local bank with a 5 star rating. If I remember correctly BofA had a 2 star rating at the time. The teller asked me why I was leaving, and I told her. She didn’t say anything but she did nod her head approvingly. I have used this approach ever since and it is always far more acceptable and enjoyable experience.

  71. 71
    Ruckus says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Think she’ll figure it out on her own soon enough?

  72. 72
    Ruckus says:

    Lawn darts weren’t intended to maim, injure and possibly kill?

    I’ll be damned.

  73. 73
  74. 74
    Scamp Dog says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Hickenlooper isn’t as liberal as I’d like, but he’s no Joe Manchin. I plan on voting for someone else in the primary, but would happily vote for Hickenlooper in the general election.

  75. 75
    Jay says:

    @J R in WV:

    You can still call them and raise shit.

    Make them afraid to go out in public.

  76. 76
    jl says:

    Hasn’t Trump already reneged on his second promise in the wake of a mass shooting to do anything, anything at all, on gun control?
    Trump got on the phone and like a big boss, talked great deelz with them. NRA told him to quit the crap on that, and trump folded like a cheap broke legged card table.
    Now I read Trump is wandering around babbling about state power to lock up people that it decides are crazy or dangerous, which is scary when coming from the Trumpsters. Assuming anything will come of it before his mind wanders off some other whim, like buying Greenland.

  77. 77
    zhena gogolia says:


    I’m kind of astounded that only one out of five CT congresspeople has signed on. I wrote to DeLauro a long time ago. I don’t know what’s holding her up.

  78. 78
    Jay says:

    A Neo-Nazi Live-fire paramilitary training camp called “The Base?” Hmmm … Know what “al-Qaeda” translates to in English? “The Base.” Their speciality? live-fire paramilitary training. #WhiteSupremacistTerrorism is real. https://t.co/bNea2DURKg— Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) August 16, 2019

  79. 79
    Jay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Gotta keep the pressure on.

  80. 80
    Van Buren says:

    @Brachiator: This concerns me, as my son closed his WF account today.
    And then received an email warning him that his balance was zero and he was subject to charges if he did not correct this.

  81. 81
  82. 82
    Elizabelle says:

    @Another Scott: I loved that video. Got out without ladders, too.

    Those crafty raccoons.

  83. 83
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Van Buren: Wells Fargo is sleazy even by banking standards.

    Document everything and keep good records.

  84. 84
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Marcopolo: you’re a good man.

  85. 85
    sdhays says:

    @Ruckus: If she survives her gun-infested, mentally unstable household. Families are often the most at risk…

  86. 86
    H.E.Wolf says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Let’s hold off on dancing on the NRA’s grave until it is deader than Jacob Marley.

    And may the NRA’s Powers-That-Be experience the same unending remorse as did Jacob Marley.

    “Business!” cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. “Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business….”

  87. 87
    Marcopolo says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Don’t make me blush. I honestly think the vast majority of BJ jackals are good folks–certainly all the MO folks like BC, who I met back at the end of June.

    When’s the next time you are coming through our neck of the woods?

  88. 88
    Citizen Alan says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    I would be perfectly happy to add 12 Manchins to the Senate if it gave us a filibuster proof majority.

  89. 89
    Jay says:

    Hahahahhaha!! Perfect! You don’t have to be Jewish to get this, especially Stephen Miller’s #SHANDE which means “a disgrace”. pic.twitter.com/0VCx7HWaAC— Bette Midler (@BetteMidler) August 16, 2019

  90. 90
    Ruckus says:

    But that’s as much as I can type without mostly four letter words describing the parents. A fucking assault rife for a 10 yr old? I actually have nothing but swear words to say.

  91. 91
    Yarrow says:

    @zhena gogolia: @Citizen Alan: I’m with you guys. I’m all about the practical. What seats do we need to retain and win to take the Senate? What do we need to do to win the electoral college? What do we have to do to keep the majority in the House and even grow it? I want to focus on those things. All the rest is great but it’s gravy. I want to win, baby.

  92. 92
    Mainmata says:

    Betty Cracker rocks! Love your stuff. More to the point, the attention needs to be on an assault weapon ban or at least a really severe tax (1000%) on bullets for those guns. Also, banning internet sales and gun show sales. I know fat chance of that happening.

  93. 93
    Amir Khalid says:

    Do you remember that one gunmaker had on its website a photo gallery of children wielding their brightly-coloured plastic My First Rifle? They had to take the photo gallery down because there was a public outcry, but they still sell children’s rifles — a class of product that would not even exist in a sane country.

  94. 94
    kindness says:

    They were called Jarts. The company that made lawn darts called them that. We had them as kids. Yea we did some stupid stuff with them but we never ended up with any of them stuck in our bodies. This was the late 60’s mind you. It wasn’t too far along that kids started getting them stuck in their heads though. We watched where they went when we tossed them. Apparently a bunch of kids did not. It didn’t kill them. Just left them with a concussion and a hole in their skulls. I call it Darwinism. Maybe we need to bring it back.

    And giving a 10 year old a 22 rifle might have been OK 60 or 100 years ago. Not now. Having said that the Ruger 10/22 is not an assault rifle by any definition. Sure you can add all kinds of stuff to make it look like one but the barrel isn’t made for continuous rapid firing. It heats up fast and then the thing isn’t accurate at all. My first gun was a Ruger 10/22. Bought one in the late 70’s. It’s a great 22 for plinking & target shooting which is what I used it for. I still call myself a liberal.

  95. 95
    Marcopolo says:

    @Yarrow: Dems need to take four Senate seats to flip the Senate (or three and the Presidency). Here is a Act_Blue donation list of all of the potentially flippable senate seats for 2020 (plus Doug Jones in AL which we would need to hold). Folks can either make one donation that will get split among all the races or they can click through to make donations to specific races.

    Flip The Senate is a fund for the Democratic target flips in 2020 and the D-held vulnerable seats (Doug Jones-AL basically) we need to hold in order to regain a Democratic Senate Majority. Every donation is split evenly among the states.

    And here’s the BEST part, your generous donation will go to the primary winner of each state’s race! So you don’t have to worry about backing the wrong person with your hard earned dollars.

    Flip the Senate 2020

    I have this page bookmarked and I send it around to all my friends every month.

  96. 96
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Marcopolo: it might be a while—that union decertified! Wasn’t even my doing; the union execs treated their members like shit and the members said “basta!” Well, the Italian members did. At least in my imagination.

    There are lots of good people here, but you are one of the most active, which is inspiring.

  97. 97
    Yarrow says:

    @Marcopolo: Thanks! That’s a great link. We should highlight it here. I think I’m more interested in the Senate than I am the presidential race at this point.

  98. 98
    Yarrow says:

    @Steve in the ATL: You still in scenic Beaumont or Evadale?

  99. 99
    different-church-lady says:

    @BC in Illinois:

    “How do you tell a 10-year-old little girl who got a Ruger 10/22 with a pink stock for her birthday that her rifle is an assault weapon and she has to turn it over to government or be arrested for felony possession?” [NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer] said.

    Well, first you get Child Protective Services to take her into protective custody, and then you go through the incredibly difficult task of explaining that her parents are dangerous imbeciles and a whole lot of the things they’ve been teaching her about the world are very very wrong.

  100. 100
    different-church-lady says:


    I call it Darwinism. Maybe we need to bring it back.

    Bring it back? Hell, we need give it free license and buy it an ice cream.

  101. 101
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Yarrow: I survived my expedition into the interior of Texas and returned safely to my blue, er, red state. Saw only one rebel flag there, but did get an earful from a couple of union presidents about the Clinton Kill Squad. I suggested they switch from the hate talk radio station to one of the dozens of country music radio stations. Or get crazy and try one of the dozens of mariachi stations.

  102. 102

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Or get crazy and try one of the dozens of mariachi stations.

    You’re a madman Steve.

  103. 103
    Jay says:


    A Ruger 10/22 is not an “assault rifle” and would not be subject to the proposed laws.

    The NRA is lying their asses off again.

  104. 104
    rikyrah says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:
    Thanks for keeping us up to date on their machinations😠😠

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    debbie says:

    @Van Buren:

    File a complaint with the CFPB.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @BC in Illinois: @Danielx: @OldDavd: @Steve in the ATL: @kindness: @different-church-lady: @Jay: I’m late to this, largely because I just fished one of the comments about this out of moderation. While Marion Hammer is bugfuck nuts, there are variants of the Ruger 10/22, specifically the three Talo Distributor Exclusive Tactical models, that cosmetically resemble an AR pattern rifle, they really aren’t an assault rifle beyond the cosmetics. Yes, they are autoloading semi-automatics. But they are a .22 long rifle rimfire rifle that requires a pull of the trigger in order for each and every bullet to be fired from the magazine. And yes, you can get extended magazines for them. To be honest, the biggest use for these AR pattern .22 lr rifles is in law enforcement training. The Ruger, Smith & Wesson, and HK versions are roughly the same weight and manual of arms as an AR 15, which is in common use by law enforcement in the US, but because the ammunition is cheaper, they are significantly more cost effective to train with.

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    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Around here, we use them to teach gun safety, marksmanship,

    shoot gophers, spruce grouse, rabbits and beercans, in season.

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    Jay says:

    Beauty out of sorrow. Hundreds come to El Paso for Margie Reckards funeral service. Her husband, Antonio, invited the public to attend, since he said he had no family nearby. Look at the flowers people sent from all over the country. ♥️pic.twitter.com/z1UrJHH7Ps— Lori AKA Storm 🇺🇸 (@DemocracyStorm) August 17, 2019

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    Jay says:

    I hope CBP and ICE are taking their responsibility seriously👎Didn't turn up to the status conference👎Vague ideas on their progress from the govt Attorney👎Confusion over how many lists they're working onGovt can't even track the *number of lists* of separated kids? pic.twitter.com/fkXWCRCLit— BebopSpaceCowgirl 🌈🌈💖💚❤️💙 (@jomareewade) August 16, 2019

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    @Jay: When is beercan season and what’s the bag limit?

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    different-church-lady says:

    @Adam L Silverman: IT HAS MORE TO DO WITH THE PINK STOCK!!1!

  112. 112
    Jay says:


    April to November, and there is no limit, just make sure you pack them out.

  113. 113
    Richard Guhl says:

    Let’s be absolutely clear here. The NRA is a gun god death cult. They are not to be reasoned with. And trying to explain how reasonable the proposed gun control measures are is an exercise in futility.
    Let’s enact the gun control measures that exist in Israel, and be done with it.

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    Jay says:


    The ammosexuals decided a few years ago, their their tiny female market was the result of gunz and camo not being pretty enough, so they slapped pink and pink camo on everything.

    Didn’t work for some reason, other than as a solid identifier of a Gun Nutz people should stay away from.

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    Adam L Silverman says:

    @different-church-lady: Ruger doesn’t even make a 10/22 with a pink stock. This is an aftermarket part made by Hogue:

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    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: Haha. Those weapons of mass lawn destruction.

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    Bill Arnold says:

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    The Justice Department’s brief on Friday contends the word refers to a person’s “biological sex”

    That’s a terrifying progression. FWIW, it would be easy to convince very large numbers of people to boycott any companies or organizations that indulged in such “freedoms”. I certainly would participate. (E.g. Fox News opinion show advertisers are easy to avoid, so far.) Are any such boycotts active or queued up?
    (Personal note: those who promote these beliefs haven’t a clue and can fuck off, to put it politely. Mentally, I am fairly gender fluid (default male-ish), even from instant to instant. Took some serious willful practice (and some prodding). Among other things, it makes day-to-day casual(or deep) empathy with other people easier. Any religious system where empathy is considered a religious crime is at least broken and wrong.)

  118. 118
    Bill Arnold says:

    So, context from Betty’s comment at top, Reuters: Trump blames mass shootings on mentally ill, calls for more mental institutions (August 15, 2019)

    President Donald Trump said on Thursday he supports meaningful background checks for gun buyers, but he said that those responsible for recent mass shootings were mentally ill and the United States should build more mental institutions.

    Later on Thursday at a rally in Manchester, New Hampshire, Trump said it was necessary to consider building new institutions for the mentally ill.

    Trump is misguided; the US is quite obviously the wrong place to build mental institutions to treat people afflicted with those particular mental disorders (curiously, I haven’t found them in the DSM) that causes them to commit mass shootings. I suggest Italy, with 1/9 the rate of the US per capita, or Russia, 1/7 the US rate, or Germany, 1/5 the US rate. (eyeball approximate ratios)
    Mass Shootings By Country 2019

    (snark if not clear. Kept meaning to do this, but the statistics haven’t cooperated. I loath John Lott but at least he uses real numbers.)

  119. 119
    Brachiator says:

    @Richard Guhl:

    Let’s enact the gun control measures that exist in Israel, and be done with it.

    This would be an interesting strategy. How could conservatives object? They think that God spoke to Moses from the Gunsmoke Bush, and that Jesus never would have been crucified had he been packing a concealed weapon.

    Some of Israel’s gun laws.

    Israelis must meet a detailed list of criteria (Hebrew link) to be allowed to own a firearm. They must ask the state for a license, are permitted only one gun at a time, and must even ask for permission to sell their gun. And the Firearms Licensing Department is no rubber stamp: Roughly 40 percent of requests are rejected.

    Indeed, before even requesting a license, Israelis must meet minimum age requirements, be in good health and of sound mind, and have no criminal record, among other preconditions.

    There’s more. Once they are granted the right to carry a gun, Israelis are limited to just 50 bullets in their possession at any given time. They must shoot or return old bullets before they can buy new ones, a process that can only take place at tightly regulated shooting ranges where each bullet’s sale is carefully registered. The types of guns permitted also depend on the reason for the license – i.e., a veterinarian may only purchase a gun approved by the government for the killing of animals, a hunter’s license only permits the purchase of a firearm from an approved firearms list kept by the Parks Authority, and so forth.



  120. 120
    Bill Arnold says:

    I wonder if anyone could construct an argument that a 2nd Amendment equivalent would make Israel safer.

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    J R in WV says:

    WE didn’t take time to visit, but when we NE Spain and SW France, I noticed a Beretta Shop very near our hotel in Bilbao, SP. Looked like a very upscale shop in an expensive part of town. Probably a ton of really expensive double barrel shotguns and pistols… just guessing. Now I wish I had browsed the shop, just to see what they were selling to the local Spanish folks.

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    kindness says:

    I’m thankful to you all at carrying out this conversation without pillorying each other over minor differences. Yea, I still own my 10/22. It’s locked up and I haven’t shot it in years. I support full background checks not only for any purchase of a gun but also any transfer of a gun as a gift. I went through the 2 week (originially, I think it’s 10 days now here in CA) for mine. I think limiting clip/magazine size to 10 max is the quickest most effective way to limit the nuts who rampage. I don’t support grandfathering old larger magazines. They should be turned over to the police, national guard or military to use if they can. People who have a history of mental issues or have had convictions for beating up on others should also have their guns taken away from them. Assault weapons (AR/AK stuff) should not be in civilian hands. So I’m not a purist on the issue. But I do believe in that whole ‘Well Regulated’ part of the 2nd Amendment. And those regulations should change with the times. Here in California they have mostly. Across the country though…not so much. Guns can be good tools if used properly. Guns should not be ego enhancers. If you are using a gun to boost your self esteem or confidence, you are doing it wrong. And honestly that is what I see the NRA playing to. It’s like Viagra to those guys and they push it as such. Wrong. That isn’t the proper use of what can be a very dangerous thing.

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    Uncle Cosmo says:

    Does it unnerve anyone other than me to see the Munchkin soldiers doing the goosestep? (Not an overly exaggerated Stechschritt, but even so.) Kinda like the time at the late lamented local German beerhall, when my friend Neil (also late lamented) stuck up his head as the band launched into a polka & said, You hear that? I said yeah, what is it, & he replied, “Die Fahne Hoch”, bka the Horst Wessel Song. It actually worked in polka time, as an instrumental – but even so…

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