The 2020 Elections Present A Simple Choice: Pick A Torch

Do you stand with this torchbearer?

Related image

Or this one?

Image result for charlottesville protests

And that should be the ad the Democrats should already be running on every station, across America, to set the conditions for a successful 2020 presidential campaign, as well as campaigns for the House, Senate, and gubernatorial and state legislative elections. Once nominees are in place, you can then superimpose the Democratic nominees for these positions and relevant portions of their platforms, tailored to the specific races, on the image of the Statue of Liberty and of the President on the image of the Charlottesville white supremacists and neo-NAZIs.

Back in January I wrote about the context in which the 2020 US election was going to take place. I specifically wrote that the US was currently experiencing a very specific type of resource war:

The 21st Century American Resource War: An Ideological and Partisan Dispute Over Who Gets to be an American

The most divisive political dispute, for lack of a better or less incendiary term, that is going on in the US right now and will continue into and through the 2020 election is one over resources. This is not a dispute over physical resources; and it is not really over even political and economic power in the sense that we’re used to understanding those types of disputes in the post WW II United States. Rather, the actual resource in dispute is Americanness itself. As in who actually is, or may make a claim to be, an American. This is not a new fight within and between Americans. It goes back to the origins of the country. And it, as it is doing right now, usually flares back up immediately after there has been an extension of civil liberties and rights to groups that were not previously considered, whether for political, social, religious, and/or ethnic/racial reasons, to be entitled to the full rights, protections, and liberties of other Americans. We are, unfortunately, currently in one of these periods. And the fight is over two very different visions of what it means to be an American and who gets to be an American.

The President, his senior policy advisor Stephen Miller, fellow travelers like Congressman Steve King, many of his outside advisors like Anne Coulter and Ginni Thomas, and his base are committed to a very narrow, crimped, and small minded vision of what it means to be American and who gets to be an American. Those in opposition to this have a far broader, expansive, open minded, and welcoming understanding of Americanness. This is the real core political, social, and religious dispute in the US today. It is an ideational, ideological, and in some cases theological and dogmatic war over the resource of Americanness. And, for the time being, it is fortunately and largely non-violent. Though the acts of domestic terrorism that are being driven by the most extreme adherents of the narrow, crimped, small minded understanding of Americanness and who is an American are accelerating as we saw in Pittsburgh.

Unfortunately, the frequency of the domestic terrorism from within this long simmering American insurgency is escalating. The violence, or the attempts at violence, are increasing and, often, as we saw yesterday in El Paso, increasing in lethality. We know what side the President, his senior advisors, his surrogates, his supporters, the Republican Party, and the conservative movement have chosen. The rest of us need to get focused and realize that a political war is upon us. And that that political war is over who is and gets to be an American. And those seeking to narrow it are more than happy and willing to both promote violence to achieve their ends and to undertake it themselves. The separation of migrant children from their asylum seeking parents, their abysmal treatment in the concentration camps they’re being detained in, and the violent rhetoric the President, his surrogates, his enablers, and his supporters use are all types of this violence. These often state directed actions are acts of symbolic and rhetorical violence intended to influence the President’s most extreme followers and their fellow travelers to actual physical violence.

This is a political war that must be fought. And it must be won. It isn’t going to be won by arguing over who is or is not the most progressive or whose policy proposals are more centrist or more socialist, when even the most centrist of them are far to the left of the leftmost proposals from a decade ago. It will only be won by recognizing that we are actually in a political war and that this reality changes the dynamic of our politics in general and the politics and politicking of the 2020 election. This is not political and campaigning business as usual. This is not an attempt to somehow reset everything to dawn on November 8, 2016. This is not about things going back to normal. This is a fight to preserve as much as can still be preserved, to clear American politics of those who promote this bigoted, racist, xenophobic, small minded, and narrow vision of who is and can be an American, and then build something stronger on what has been preserved.

Pick a torch!

It’s that simple. You’re either on the side of the Statue of Liberty or the side of the tiki torch neo-NAZIs and white supremacists. There is no both siding this. There is no “if my favorite candidate isn’t the nominee, I’m not voting because I won’t compromise my ideals and ideological purity”. Refusing to pick a torch, is refusing to take a stand. It is putting yourself and whatever your pet issue or issues are over promoting the general welfare and providing for the common defense. None of your high minded, ideologically pure agenda is going to ever get enacted if you don’t stand with those standing with Lady Liberty against the nationalist conservatives, the white supremacists, neo-nationalists, neo-fascists, and neo-NAZIs. Failing to pick a torch moves us one step closer to a white Christian herrenvolk democracy in the US where everyone who isn’t white and Christian has their rights challenged, limited, and/or taken away.

Pick a torch!

Updated at 2:57 PM EDT

Redshift in the comments asked for a side by side, easy to use on social media version of the images. So here you go:

 

Open thread!

211 replies
  1. 1
    zhena gogolia says:

    Thanks, Adam. I wish they would hire you for PR!

  2. 2
    zhena gogolia says:

    Just to add, this is what drives me crazy about the debates. Who cares how long it will take for Harris’s plan to phase in, or whether Warren’s plan will raise taxes?

    We’re in a fight with Nazis! Wake up, sheeple!

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    Which torch is offering the most progressive health plan?

  4. 4
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Heh. We are one.

  5. 5
    debbie says:

    I would love to see that ad!

  6. 6
    lamh36 says:

    😢😢

    “A two-month-old baby has broken bones today, because his mother, Jordan Anchondo, died shielding him from a shooter at a Walmart. She had three kids. She was shopping for school supplies”

    https://twitter.com/sonali_kohli/status/1158073497387618304?s=21

  7. 7
    Dr Ronnie James DO says:

    I’m with her.

    Always. ;)

  8. 8
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @zhena gogolia: I don’t think my Spanish is good enough to work for Puerto Rico.

  9. 9
    Quinerly says:

    Great post, Adam. Thanks!

  10. 10
    The Dangerman says:

    Would be an excellent ad, but there are SO many single issue voters on the other side. What it will take to wake them up is … well, who knows?

    Baud/Silverman 2020 (feel free to flip)

  11. 11
    gene108 says:

    My mom had a friend* over for lunch yesterday. Mom’s convinced Trump is unbeatable, and the Democratic candidates are weak.

    I don’t think she’s alone in this way of thinking. I know the mainstream media reinforces this, with every time they show Trump breaking one norm or the other.

    But he’s always had a negative approval rating, as President. Lost the popular vote, and wouldn’t have won the EC, without aggressive voter suppression and Russian interference.

    Plus Dems won big in 2018.

    How to flip this idea around and show Trump is vulnerable?

    * Mom and her friend met in 1991. A few years later, it was somehow figured we are actually related. Weird how these things work.

  12. 12
    Marcopolo says:

    Here’s one way every BJer can help out. As we all are aware, even if the D’s hold onto the House & win the Presidency, the place where the rubber will meet the road is in the Senate.

    Someone has gone to the time and effort to create an ActBlue page for making donations to all of the 2020 Democratic candidates for every US Senate race across the country. You can give to one candidate, pick and choose some of them, or make a blanket donation that will be split among all of them. Here’s the link (and I have bookmarked it so I can send it around to my friends periodically between now and Nov. 2020).

    https://secure.actblue.com/donate/retakesenate2020

    If you have the will, time, and ability to help out a campaign, get out there an volunteer locally. Hell, reach out to your local Mom’s Demand Action group and see what they need help with. We have special elections here on Tuesday so I am off to do some last weekend before the election work.

    Take care everyone.

  13. 13
    gene108 says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    DO NOT WAKE UP THE SHEEPLE

  14. 14
    Lapassionara says:

    I love this idea.

  15. 15
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @gene108: Emphasize over and over and over that 1) he lost the popular vote in 2016, 2) that he only won the popular electoral vote because of the Russians and Jim Comey, not because he’s some sort of political genius, 3) that he’s actually accomplished nothing in three years – no wall, no actually improved and approved trade agreements, no massive improvement in the economy, nothing.

    Hammer it over and over and over again. In ads. In debates. On social media. In op-eds. During press conferences. He’ll freak out. And then he’ll act out. He always does.

  16. 16
    Jeffro says:

    Love the comparison/potential ad…

    Do the same for the ACA vs McConnell-care

    Do the same for restoring tax rates on the rich and corporations vs not

    All of it. Draw the contrast, sharply, Dems

  17. 17
  18. 18
    satby says:

    This is a great post, and I shared it on FB. But it’s constantly annoying that by sharing from the widget I get a generic logo page instead of the excellent photos and art that front pagers use. I wanted Lady Liberty, not part of the title of the blog.

  19. 19
    rk says:

    @lamh36:

    “A two-month-old baby has broken bones today, because his mother, Jordan Anchondo, died shielding him from a shooter at a Walmart. She had three kids. She was shopping for school supplies”

    Hundreds of bills to protect fetuses, none for babies or children.

  20. 20
    Steeplejack says:

    Jumping into this open thread to say that I just received my plastic “sleeve garter” from Amazon, which will allow me to cavort—gingerly—in the shower and get clean for the first time since Wednesday. Thanks to tokyokie for the tip!
    🚿💦🏊‍♂️🌊⚠💀

  21. 21

    I just donated, via the ActBlue link Marcopolo supplied, to Amy McGrath’s campaign in Kentucky to replace the vile #MoscowMitch.

  22. 22
    Steeplejack says:

    @Marcopolo:

    Thanks for that link. Bookmarked.

  23. 23
    gene108 says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Think I’ll give her my copy of Al Franken’s Lies, and the Lying Liars, Who Tell Them first.

    Really eye opening book for me way back in 2003. Still relevant today.

  24. 24

    @satby: Reminder to Adam and other FP’ers: If you set a featured image, that’s the image that will come along on a FB share.

    This will continue to be true on the new site.

  25. 25
  26. 26
    Redshift says:

    So in the interests of plastering this all over social media, can someone meme-ify Adam’s photos and slogan into one image? I would happily spam Twitter with it on a daily basis.

    (Trying to decide if #ImWithHer would be a good hashtag, it if it would be offputting to idiots who, despite being idiots, might otherwise participate and amplify it.)

  27. 27
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Haha, I’m so manic these days I forgot I had set up a monthly donation to her until I inspected my credit-card bill just now.

  28. 28
    zhena gogolia says:

    @gene108:

    Yes, it’s a great book. Much better than his Lion of the Senate one.

  29. 29
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Redshift:

    I’ve seen it on Twitter, so somebody has already done it. But I’m not too computer literate, I’m afraid.

  30. 30
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @satby: I’ll let the design folks know. I’m sure whatever the fix is will only make it worse.

  31. 31
    Lapassionara says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Not to mention the astonishingly large deficit. Wasn’t he going to fix that too?

  32. 32
    FelonyGovt says:

    Very well stated, Adam. That’s really what we’re facing.

  33. 33
    Kay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    We’re in a fight with Nazis!

    This is Biden’s campaign. He probably could have stuck to it, too. I mean, it’s a little unusual and he probably would have gotten slammed for a lack of specifics but his campaign is a broad promise to marginalize Trumpism and just be DECENT. Which seems to have a certain amount of support in the public. I think it’s authentic to him, too. He (literally!) does not understand why people are quibbling over details :)

  34. 34
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Redshift: I actually tried to see if there was one like that. Give me a minute and I’ll do it and update the post.

  35. 35
    JKC says:

    Amen, Adam. Well said.

    I’ve had this discussion with my brother, who teaches AP US Government (aka Civics) to high school seniors, and is as kind and decent as the day is long. He feels that Democrats can’t (or shouldn’t) shred any rules to win. I don’t think that’s a luxury we have any more. It’s time to stop bringing Robert’s Rules of Order to fight off fascists.

    And if there aren’t ads bombing Kentucky calling out #MoscowMitch on a daily basis, then there should be.

  36. 36
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Kay:

    Yes, that works for me. I wish he were 20 or even 10 years younger.

  37. 37
    Josie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    that he only won the popular vote because of the Russians and Jim Comey

    Did you mean he only won the electoral vote?

    ETA: Thanks for a great post.

  38. 38
    debbie says:

    @Lapassionara:

    Remedy now delayed until after the next election. I wonder if even the GOP realizes it will lose in 2020>

  39. 39
    Catherine D. says:

    Ooh, I’m itching to make line art of these images for a t-shirt.

  40. 40
    Quinerly says:

    @Catherine D.: I’d buy one!

  41. 41
    Kay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    It probably works for a lot of people. It’s not ideological. He’s like “are you decent? Then I’m your guy!” Some Democratic primary voters are like “well, actually, this started with Nixon”. He’s thinking “who cares? Your house is on fire!”

  42. 42
    tokyokie says:

    @Steeplejack: You’re welcome! Glad I could be a positive influence, which is rarely the case!

  43. 43
    Quinerly says:

    @Kay: I will get pilloried I suspect, but been giving Biden a lot of thought these last few days. I was all Harris all the way until the last few days. She turned me off in the debate. The Biden pile on did not sit well with me. I still wish he hadn’t run, but I think I’m leaning to him for my support. It’s complicated. First time I’ve said it out loud.

  44. 44
    Hungry Joe says:

    “Pick a torch” is good. I mean, it’s REALLY good.

  45. 45
    Catherine D. says:

    @Quinerly: I’m thinking of the title being “Which side are you on?” because I’m an old folkie. If I do come up with a design, I will cheerfully donate it to any group trying to take back the Senate. To me, that’s life or death.

  46. 46
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Kay:

    I do know that my never-Trumper friend is most comfortable with Biden.

  47. 47
    Kay says:

    Kellyanne Conway

    @KellyannePolls
    · 3h
    We need to come together, America.
    Finger-pointing, name-calling & screaming with your keyboards is easy, yet…
    It solves not a single problem, saves not a single life.
    Working as one to understand depraved evil & to eradicate hate is everyone’s duty. Unity.
    Let’s do this.

    No one’s going to follow you, low quality Trump hire. You’re a liar and you have no moral or ethical authority to tell anyone to do anything. Bankrupt.

  48. 48
  49. 49
    satby says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: @Adam L Silverman: Adam, looks like that’s in your power. Huzzah!

  50. 50
    Baud says:

    @Quinerly:

    I still don’t prefer Biden, but don’t let anyone on the internet scare you off.

  51. 51
    Kay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I think it’s interesting that Joe Biden is running the campaign elite pundits say they want and they won’t credit him with it.

    They were more willing to give Williamson the moral and ethical appeal than they were Biden, and Biden’s running on it. There’s some kind of inherent bias operating here, or they would see that all of their demands for “a Trump opponent” are met in Biden. They can’t give it to him.

  52. 52

    I picked up the torch a day before T became President of the United States by applying for citizenship. I realized that I had to choose a side.

  53. 53
  54. 54

    Prediction:
    “How Dare You to Blackmail Me to vote for My Interests!”

    Because that (and ‘identity politics’) will ring the hillsides once He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named gets locked out.

  55. 55
    JPL says:

    @Quinerly: Although my support is thin, I think a Biden/Harris ticket can win, and we definitely need to win.

  56. 56
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Redshift: I just uploaded an image that, I think, fulfills your request.

  57. 57
    Quinerly says:

    @Baud: I’m a delicate magnolia blossom. Didn’t you know.

  58. 58

    @Baud: Me too. His moment has passed. He just seemed so out of it on the debate stage, last week and at the first debate.

  59. 59
    Kay says:

    Kellyanne Conway’s scared. She’s afraid this is going to come back to bite her and the rest of the bottom of the barrel hires.

    The desperate, clumsy switch to “unity” is amusing after 3 years of solid, malicious BILE she’s spewed. Truly enjoyable to watch her sweat, though. Good luck, sister! Maybe it’ll work.

  60. 60
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Josie: Yep, fixed it. Thanks.

  61. 61
    HinTN says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    “Pick a torch” is good. I mean, it’s REALLY good.

    Yes it is. Pithy and precise, plus it puts the racists immediately on the defensive. Very much like “Moscow Mitch” has done.

    Well done Mr Silverman.

  62. 62
    MomSense says:

    Perfect!

  63. 63

    I am seeing reports on Twitter that tweets containing the word “invasion” and perhaps others are being deleted from Trump’s account. Fortunately, there are a number of accounts with archived Trump tweets.

    That’s consistent with Kay’s comment that Conway’s scared. They’ve got a problem.

  64. 64

    balloon-juice.com is misspelled in the image. Just thought I should point that out.

    Also it’s Ann Coulter, not Anne. I don’t know why I notice so many of these things.

    Anyway, great piece!

    Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

  65. 65
    Inventor says:

    I am spreading this meme and giving Adam credit because it’s great and he deserves it.

  66. 66
    Quinerly says:

    @JPL: That’s where I’m going in my thought process. I even thought Biden/Booker, but still lean Harris. We are still a ways out, but I do know one thing. Attacking Obama’s legacy through Biden is not productive and actually is harmful. I was cringing when I heard Trump gloating at that last rally.

  67. 67

    Also:

    Elton John – Ticking

    Things have not improved since he and Bernie Taupin wrote the song. In fact, they’ve gotten much worse.

    Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

  68. 68
    Emerald says:

    None of your high minded, ideologically pure agenda is going to ever get enacted if you don’t stand with those standing with Lady Liberty against the nationalist conservatives, the white supremacists, neo-nationalists, neo-fascists, and neo-NAZIs

    Ah, but those high-minded folk really don’t care if their agenda actually ever gets enacted. That’s not what they’re about. They’re about high mindedness. Nothing more. They are morally superior to the rest of us, and that’s the only thing that counts.

    Lady Liberty cannot count on them.

  69. 69
    JPL says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Trump is a coward who can’t stand by his own statements.

  70. 70
    Cathie Fonz says:

    I posted this on twitter too, #PickATorch. It applies to Canada as well– we are having an election in October and the Conservative party is pandering to Canadian anti-immigrant white nationalists too, just like American republicans are. Its scary that all of Trudeau’s progress could be dismantled if Scheer wins.

  71. 71
  72. 72
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @(((CassandraLeo))): I fixed the image. I also could care less how Coulter spells her name.

  73. 73
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Steeplejack: Swimming and surfing in the shower, caution: disembodied skull?

  74. 74
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    It isn’t going to be won by arguing over who is or is not the most progressive or whose policy proposals are more centrist or more socialist, when even the most centrist of them are far to the left of the leftmost proposals from a decade ago.

    If we can take the Senate and keep the House and then pass lberal/common sense legislation, there isn’t a real Democrat (Bernie and Tulsi being the odd people out) running who would not sign it into law. If Warren is president and Congress gives her Beto’s immigration plan, it will become law.

    That means we should be voting on two things. First, who can win. Second, who can best advocate for our side. Each of those things has many components, but that’s the thumbnail sketch in my view.

  75. 75
    Another Scott says:

    Nice.

    Unfortunately, my OCD is acting up on the new siamese image. The right half is too squished together (the perspective wasn’t preserved).

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  76. 76
    wasabi gasp says:

    People don’t care about torches. That is some half-assed liberal weenie cartoon reality bullshit.

  77. 77

    @Adam L Silverman: That’s fully understandable – it’s not as if she’s ever given a toss for details like that herself! Turnabout is fair.

    Ceterum censeo factionem Republicanam esse delendam.

  78. 78
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Inventor:

    Much as I love Adam, it’s been all over the internet for a while. But I do hope it gets more memified!

  79. 79
    tokyokie says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The Filipina spousal unit went through the naturalization process early in the GWB administration. Since then, I understand that the cost and the bureaucratic impediments have only gotten worse.

  80. 80
    J R in WV says:

    If Joe Biden wins the primary and the nomination, I’ll donate and work to get him elected. During the primary season, I’ll support Harris and Warren, they seem to have the ability to fight for progess once elected, Biden seems to think all he needs is to get elected, which is actually step one on a long steep winding road. I don’t think he can make the pilgrimage up the hill, but if he wins the primary season, he’s our guy.

    I intend to canvass and organize somewhere that it might make a difference, like a tipping purple state like AZ, or work for McGrath next door in KY, somewhere like that, once we’re close to the election.

    It helps me sleep at night to know I’ve done what I can to support American values.

    Obviously, I’m with the torch on the Statue of Liberty, those guys holding torches are obviously insane monsters. I’m glad Antifa has identified most of them….

  81. 81
    MomSense says:

    I remember singing Irving Berlin’s Give Me Your Tired Your Poor when I was in my high school’s show choir. We grew up on the idea of America as a melting pot, a place where anyone and everyone could come together because they believed in each other and our founding ideals. Of course, we never fully realized those ideals but we didn’t abandon them.

    We can’t cede what it means to be American to the racists, the xenophobes, the anti-science idiots, or the greedy. I want to believe in a more perfect union and I think that’s worth fighting for. So as upset and depressed as I feel about what is happening, I’m not going to give up. Fuckem!

    This is my fight no matter what.

    give me your tired

  82. 82
    zhena gogolia says:

    @MomSense:

    OT, any improvement?

  83. 83
    Kay says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    That’s consistent with Kay’s comment that Conway’s scared. They’ve got a problem.

    I love that they have decided Conway is the leader. What a joke.

    Couldn’t they find anyone in that administration that was even halfway credible? She’s the best they have? She can’t even pull off a “unity” tweet without attacking her critics. My God, Ted Cruz is denouncing white supremicist terrorist attacks.
    None of them can manage it? I suppose they can’t, really. They’ll get fired in the most humiliating and public way possible.

  84. 84
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Lapassionara: Hard to do that when he’s handing out tax cuts to his fellow .1% parasites.

  85. 85
    B.B.A. says:

    As Susan Sontag observed, the white race is a cancer upon humanity.

  86. 86
    J R in WV says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    pedant alert:

    I also could care less how Coulter spells her name.

    You could? ‘Cause I couldn’t!!
    /pedant alert

    ;-)

  87. 87
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @tokyokie: Stephen Miller has made it his mission in life to make the United States, contrary to the wishes of the Founders, a Blut und Boden country.

  88. 88
    Adam L Silverman says:

    Bella Q asked me to pass this update on on her behalf:

    since I mentioned it in the shooting thread, all but a handful of my Dayton colleagues are accounted for. The firm sent automated messagesto work email + personal phone, then HR left VM for those they didn’t hear from

  89. 89
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @B.B.A.: The United States will never reach its full potential as long as there is a single white supremacist out in the open. They can live under the rocks.

  90. 90
    Another Scott says:

    Twitter:

    God @TheTweetOfGod

    “The way to prevent more poisonings is to give everyone poison.” – The National Poison Association.

    11:56 AM – 4 Aug 2019

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  91. 91
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: Of which neither his blut nor his boden would qualify him to be an American.

  92. 92
    Mike in NC says:

    Spent the day in Belfast, where people conducted a low intensity civil war for about 25 or so years until sanity seemed to prevail. Belfast today is a modern, vibrant, forward looking city which hopefully will not succumb to Trumpism anytime soon. We made a beeline to the excellent Titanic museum which was packed on a Sunday morning. One could easily enjoy 4-5 hours there but we had to plow through in about 90 minutes to make it back to the ship for the next tour of historic Belfast (parliament, city hall, churches, the Peace Wall, and Belfast Castle).

  93. 93
    MomSense says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    She is eating and started drinking water this morning! Tuesday we test her liver enzymes and hopefully they have improved. She has definitely perked up but I don’t know yet if that is just the treatment or if her liver is recovering. So we just continue to treat her and hope she recovers. At least she doesn’t look like she is dying right now. It was pretty grim for a few days.

    Of course I’m spoiling her. She is on the couch with me getting constant loving.

  94. 94
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Kay: Charging, trying, convicting and hanging Kellyanne Conjob and the rest of these Nazi shitbags is to start to solving problems. America is together – we’re fighting Nazis.

  95. 95
    Aleta says:

    DL Hughley @RealDLHughley

    America has to decide between Lady Liberty’s torch or a Tikki Torch!

    Someone put the image on twitter this am.

  96. 96
    Aleta says:

    @Aleta: Also from Dl this am:

    DL Hughley @RealDLHughley

    It’s gotta be hard for God to hear our prayers for the families of the victims over the sound of gunfire!

  97. 97
    Fair Economist says:

    @Kay:

    I think it’s interesting that Joe Biden is running the campaign elite pundits say they want and they won’t credit him with it.

    They can never admit a Democrat is doing something right (by their standards, as you say, whatever we think).

  98. 98
    J R in WV says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    People don’t care about torches. That is some half-assed liberal weenie cartoon reality bullshit.

    You must be today’s RWNJ troll, the drooling idiot for August 4th. Welcome,
    now go away forever.

  99. 99
    zhena gogolia says:

    The WaPo front page right now is a festival of anti-Trump pieces.

  100. 100
    Aleta says:

    @MomSense: That’s such good news! Pets to her.

  101. 101
    lamh36 says:

    The words of our leaders matter:

    “Hate without response will lead to destruction…whomever is the subject of that hate should never be made to fight alone.”

    -@KamalaHarris at Victory Missionary Baptist Church in Las Vegas
    https://twitter.com/jemsinger/status/1158073702975725568?s=21

  102. 102
    zhena gogolia says:

    @MomSense:

    Give her a hug for me!

  103. 103
    Suzanne says:

    Rather, the actual resource in dispute is Americanness itself. As in who actually is, or may make a claim to be, an American.

    Tyler Cowen repeatedly makes the point that all political fights are, at core, about relative social status. Joan Williams points out that many of the Trumpers only have (or only feel that they have) one high-status identity marker, and that is their American-ness.

    If these points are correct—and I am pretty certain that they are—then no amount of logic or rational assessment will be able to shake it. I can point out that immigrants are mostly hardworking, non-criminal people all day long, but the real reason that they don’t want immigrants and minorities around is because then being an American loses its exclusivity.

    Once again, the hardest part about the Obama presidency for this cohort was the realization that there were black people who are cooler and smarter and more attractive than they are.

  104. 104
    Quinerly says:

    @MomSense: Good news. Spoiling is good.

  105. 105
    Another Scott says:

    @J R in WV: Poor form, JR.

    Wasabi gasp has been here a long time.

    Mutual admiration societies are boring. We need to be able to have disagreements to figure out better ways forward.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  106. 106
    zhena gogolia says:

    @lamh36:

    I’m still with her!

    But I’ll vote for any of them. Except Tulsi. And I’ll see about Bernie.

  107. 107
    gene108 says:

    Heh… got a 12 hour Twitter time out for this…

    HappyHappyJoyJoy5000
    @Gene1525

    @TomiLahren Fuck off or go fund hospitals to have more beds, group homes, so people working there get better pay, and outreach programs, if care so much about the mental health crisis, you heartless skank bitch.

    https://twitter.com/account/access

  108. 108
    Dan B says:

    There are several divergent views being reinforced at the same time. To many people they seem different but they share common roots.

    Lady Liberty vs. Klan. Lady Liberty recognizes new arrivals as human beings. Progressives and liberals welcome them despite their flaws. Neo-Klans see little but the imperfections. Neo-Klans see empathy as a fatal weakness and diversity as a threat to their identity. Who says only liberals practice “identity politics”? It’s not identity politics that is the problem it’s who qualifies as a citizen, patriot, or a human being.

    The Neo-Klans also like to claim people of color are the real racists. They believe they are just defending their rights but it boils down to their belief that life is a zero sum game. They claim that natural resources are limitless and then demand that only they get to benefit from their extraction. They had to slaughter Native Americans so they coukd take their land because there was no way to co-exist in this cast country.

    Their are two different torches and many layers to peel back.

  109. 109
    Brachiator says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Glad to see that Bella’s people are safe

    since I mentioned it in the shooting thread, all but a handful of my Dayton colleagues are accounted for. The firm sent automated messagesto work email + personal phone, then HR left VM for those they didn’t hear from

    My company does something similar. And yet it is sad that we now accommodate the new normal of periodic mass shootings.

  110. 110
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Another Scott: I seem to recall similar trollish statement from Wasabi Gasp in the past – being a longtime poster doesn’t mean they’re not a troll.

  111. 111
    Kirk Spencer says:

    @Another Scott: Also, I rather thought it was sarcasm.

  112. 112
    joel hanes says:

    @B.B.A.:

    As Susan Sontag observed, the white race is a cancer upon humanity.

    IMHO, it’s because of the way humans with power and privilege often behave, not something peculiar to white people with power and privilege.

    The Great Leap Forward, the Khmer Rouge, Mongol invasions, Tutsi/Hutu, Aztec sacrifices, the Turks massacring the Albanians, the situation in Myanmar.

    Out of the crooked timber of humanity was no straight thing ever made.

  113. 113

    @MomSense: That sounds encouraging!

  114. 114
    Brachiator says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    But I’ll vote for any of them. Except Tulsi. And I’ll see about Bernie.

    More on this in a purely political thread, but I wonder if Bernie thinks that the Democratic Party is inherently corrupt. His supporters certainly believe this.

  115. 115
  116. 116
    Aleta says:

    @Redshift:
    Here’s one image from early this a.m. that we can help plaster on twitter:

    Senator Hughes @SenatorHughes

    Pick a torch, America!

    Hughes is “PA Senator representing the 7th district, encompassing portions of Phila. & Montgomery County. Sen. Dem. Appropriations Chairman.”

  117. 117
    Gravenstone says:

    @Kay: Um, Kellyanne? You work for DEPRAVED EVIL. So explain exactly what it is you intend to do about that?

  118. 118
    Brachiator says:

    @lamh36:

    The words of our leaders matter:

    “Hate without response will lead to destruction…whomever is the subject of that hate should never be made to fight alone.”

    -@KamalaHarris at Victory Missionary Baptist Church in Las Vegas

    Damn. Harris nailed it. And this is not a partisan compliment.

    What have other Democratic Party candidates said?

    And Trump is miserably failing the test. He is stuck. He has painted himself into a corner with his hateful rhetoric.

  119. 119
    Kay says:

    Neurology Doctor
    @NeurologyDoctor
    ·3h
    Tim Ryan announces he’s withdrawing from presidential race and tells Republicans to “get their shit together” in same clip. #WhiteNationalistTerrorism

    Oh, good job! All the rest of the people who aren’t going to win should withdraw too. We have to focus.

  120. 120
    prostratedragon says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    An archive that I know of, down to earlier today. Apparently downloadable, though I haven’t tried yet.

  121. 121
    Elizabelle says:

    Moscow Mitch broke his shoulder this morning, per WaPost. Allegedly took a fall on his patio.

  122. 122
    Kay says:

    You know that thing in a group where if you don’t ask your question someone else will always ask it?

    Tell the 15 candidates who aren’t going to win about that. They’re not unique. They can drop out and someone else will carry their torch.

  123. 123
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @MisterForkbeard: wasabi gasp is the closest thing we have to a pure troll (one who trolls for the sake of trolling rather than in support of an agenda) since srv went away. That being said, there are a number of regular commenters who are getting awfully close to calling anyone who disagrees with the consensus on a thread either a right wing troll or a paid Russian troll. Sometimes people disagree, sometimes someone is just plain wrong, and sometimes the commenter is an actual troll.

  124. 124
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    I also couldn’t care less how Coulter spells her name.

    Just for you, I fix. Writing “could care less” is careless and ungrammatical, and I know you don’t want to be like that.

  125. 125
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Elizabelle:

    thoughts and prayers

    I won’t say what I’m thinking or what I’m praying for

  126. 126
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kay: Only one candidate is going to win. Where do you draw the line given that is about a year until the convention where the nominee will actually be chosen?

  127. 127
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Elizabelle:
    It is heartless of me, I know, but his Schade brings me Freude.

  128. 128
    joel hanes says:

    there are a number of regular commenters who are getting awfully close to calling anyone who disagrees with the consensus on a thread either a right wing troll or a paid Russian troll

    I regularly read the private blog of one of our more well-known commenters. Or, I should say former commenters: I noticed that his nym is no longer seen in all the familiar places, and asked him about it.

    He has withdrawn from commenting on this blog and all the other blogs on which he was a familiar voice, because the mob piling-on reception accorded to some comments had destroyed the pleasure he formerly took in these conversations. Not just here, either.

  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Kay:

    That’s good. I actually kind of like him. I know that’s a minority opinion around here.

  130. 130

    One objective of trolls is to get other commenters fighting with each other. So when one set of folks are pointing out wasabi gasp’s unpleasant comment and another set are defending wasabi gasp’s longevity or right to say it or whatever, step back and think about whether this is an argument worth clogging up the comment thread.

  131. 131
    geg6 says:

    I’m with her.

  132. 132
    joel hanes says:

    @Brachiator:

    Trump … has painted himself into a corner with his hateful rhetoric

    I’m seeing reports that the Trump posts and advertisements containing the word “invasion” are being scrubbed.

  133. 133
    dmsilev says:

    @Kay: All of the candidates who fail to qualify for the next debate should drop out. That’ll get us down to maybe 10 people, which is still too big a field but is getting better. Whether they do so now or in a month is irrelevant IMO; the thing about being a marginal candidate is you get very little news coverage, so it’s not like you’re sucking up attention from the actual contenders. It’s only for things like time during debates that having the thundering herd really becomes a problem.

  134. 134
    Quinerly says:

    @joel hanes: Good information. It seems a few regulars don’t comment anymore. Makes me sad.

  135. 135
    Quinerly says:

    @Elizabelle: I had been working my Moscow Mitch Voodoo Doll pretty hard with 5 carefully placed pins. Felt like I had lost my touch. Slammed it to the floor and Poco thought it was a chew toy. Guess I was wasting my time with the pins in the nether region. 😈

  136. 136
    Fair Economist says:

    @dmsilev: Watching these absurdly overlarge debates is painful, but I’ve realized it’s a good way to build consensus. Nobody can say they “weren’t given a chance”. We’ll be rid of almost all the jokes and hopeless cases in the next cut-off, and be down to only serious candidates by the next, still months before the first votes.

  137. 137
    MoCA Ace says:

    Charlottesville white supremacists and neo-NAZIs.

    New NAZI, old NAZI… can’t we just call them FUCKING NAZI’S

  138. 138
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Excellent. I really didn’t him, but I’ll give him props here.

  139. 139
    Aleta says:

    Here are some examples (from PA Dems) of action we might ask about when we call our own state legislators
    (The twitter link has added links (to legis.state.pa.us) for the bills, which have been introduced by Dems in the PA Senate and blocked by Rs.

    PaSenateDems @PaSenateDems
    The @PaSenateDems have introduced a number of bills aimed at reforming Pennsylvania’s gun laws in order to protect our citizens. As you might expect, they’ve received opposition.
    Call your lawmakers and tell them you want gun reform in PA!

    Legislation from @WayneDFontana would implement Extreme Risk Protection Orders.
    ERPOs grant family and law enforcement the ability to petition a court to temporarily suspend a person’s access to firearms if there is documented evidence that person is a threatening harm.

Legislation from @SenatorHughes and @SenSantarsiero would implement universal background checks for firearm purchases in Pennsylvania. Learn more about the bill here: [see above link]

    @SenTonyWilliams has introduced legislation to address public safety and gun ownership accountability through registration of firearms in the Commonwealth. Learn more about how this bill will help protect Pennsylvanians: [see link]

    


Legislation from @SenSantarsiero would require gun owners to safely store firearms if a person who cannot legally possess a firearm lives in the owner’s residence.
    *
    Another bill would require gun owners to safely store firearms when not under direct control of the owner.

.@SenatorCollett has introduced a bill to allow municipalities to determine whether or not firearms are allowed in their buildings and properties. Read more about the bill here: [see above link]

    
A bill from @WayneDFontana would enact an assault weapons ban in Pennsylvania. Read more about how this legislation would protect Pennsylvanians: [link]

    A bill by @SenatorHughes would require an individual to complete a firearms safety or training course as a condition of being issued a Concealed Carry Permit in Pennsylvania. Read more about the bill here: [link]
    *
    Those are some of the gun reform bills that have been introduced by members of the @PaSenateDems.
    They have received a lot of opposition. But with your help, we can get them passed.
    *
    Call your lawmakers today and tell them you want gun reform!

    Obv, there’s also the problem of transport across state lines, which a state acting alone can’t fix.

    .

  140. 140
    wasabi gasp says:

    @Another Scott: Thanks, dude. Can’t say I’ve ever received that courtesy before.

    @Omnes Omnibus: You just bitchin’ cuz you’re an anger queen spinning shitty tunes.

  141. 141
    Jay says:

    SHOOTER: I was inspired by trump.

    MEDIA: what could have caused this?

    SHOOTER: look at this cool photo of the word “trump” spelled out in firearms

    MEDIA: he probably played too much fortnite

    SHOOTER: it’s like trump said, Hispanics are invading us

    MEDIA: we may never know

    — Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady) August 4, 2019

  142. 142
    Baud says:

    @Baud:

    Left out a “like.”.

  143. 143
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @joel hanes:

    I’m seeing reports that the Trump posts and advertisements containing the word “invasion” are being scrubbed.

    Plenty of retweet bots, like RealPressSec that retweet his garbage so people won’t have to follow Dump on Twitter.

    The Interwebs is forever (until the Sweet Meteor of Death comes.)

  144. 144
    Dan B says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: The goal of trolls, at least Putin’s trolls, is to make us feel upset and start arguments. Whenwver I feel like this now I take a moment and calm down. Being upset distracts us from the root of the problem and steers us away from the good that still exists.

  145. 145
    Brachiator says:

    @Quinerly:

    Mentioned in the Philadelphia Inquirer story

    Senator Mitt Romney

    ✔@SenatorRomney

    Our hearts go out to the victims, families, and loved ones of the tragic shooting in El Paso. From what dark and repugnant corner of the mind comes such senseless and vile brutality?

    Funny how Romney just can’t bring himself to say “Trump.”

  146. 146
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    Good news.

  147. 147
    Jay says:

    BULLSHIT: The El Paso gunman drove NINE HOURS to the Texas border to kill brown people. White supremacy is not a mental illness. It’s an ideology encouraged by the President and too many of our leaders, and it’s made deadly in the US via easy access to arsenals and ammunition. https://t.co/yyBb5dYbNg— Shannon Watts (@shannonrwatts) August 4, 2019

  148. 148
    dmsilev says:

    @Fair Economist: I think the 20-person debates were fine for the summer when, lets face it, it doesn’t really matter, but as we go into the fall and start to get closer to actually voting, thinning things down so that plausible candidates have more time is a good idea. But yes, having that very broad (and clearly defined) threshold for the first debates should help with the whining about “rigging the process” etc.

  149. 149
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Dan B: Given that I am completely new to the internet, I did not know that. Thank you so much.

  150. 150
    MoCA Ace says:

    @Catherine D.:

    Ooh, I’m itching to make line art of these images for a t-shirt.

    I’ll take several!!

  151. 151
    Martin says:

    @Aleta: True, but you do it nevertheless. CA is able to confiscate weapons from people with criminal records, people with restraining orders, etc. In some cases we’re flushing people toward other forms of criminality, which sounds bad, but they are easier to police so they get caught that way.

    Given the tsunami of shitty policy from the GOP, getting a finger in the dike is sometimes all you can do.

  152. 152
    Brachiator says:

    @joel hanes:

    I’m seeing reports that the Trump posts and advertisements containing the word “invasion” are being scrubbed.

    Interesting. I expect that Trump will soon lie and deny that he ever said “invasion.”

  153. 153
    BR says:

    Looks like the meme was around a couple years ago, briefly. Here’s another version of it that isn’t quite as stretched:

    https://twitter.com/taphilips/status/896499538881519617

  154. 154
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator:

     I expect that Trump will soon lie and deny that he ever said “invasion” and will call Obama the real white supremacist.

    Fixed for completeness.

  155. 155
    B.B.A. says:

    @MoCA Ace: Most of ’em are incels so it’d be inaccurate.

  156. 156

    @Elizabelle:

    Moscow Mitch broke his shoulder this morning, per WaPost. Allegedly took a fall on his patio

    I kinda hate that the first thing I thought of was “What’s he up to?”

  157. 157
    wasabi gasp says:

    @Brachiator: That guy is such a political nincompoop. A respected veteran north-eastern liberal republican somehow finds his calling in state-sanctioned white supremacy.

  158. 158
    Sure Lurkalot says:

    @Quinerly: Argh! Is Biden Obama’s legacy? I wish Joe would have just one anecdote about how he talked to Obama about something they disagreed on. Obama was the best president in my lifetime but I certainly had issues with some of his decisions.

    With Biden basically supporting every move Obama made, it becomes exceedingly difficult to point out any policy differences or unintended consequences without it being called turning one’s back on Obama.

    My admiration for Obama includes his professed willingness to scrap what on paper didn’t work in the real world. He knew he’d make mistakes.

  159. 159
    Dan B says:

    @Dan B: As Cheryl said. If you’re getting upset the trolls have put another notch on their wall.

  160. 160
    germy says:

    @John Revolta:

    I kinda hate that the first thing I thought of was “What’s he up to?”

    Dancing to Putin’s tune!

  161. 161
  162. 162
    germy says:

    Spokesman David Popp said in a statement the majority leader tripped on his patio at home. He plans to work from home and has been in touch with GOP Sens. John Cornyn of Texas and Rob Portman of Ohio, whose states were affected by mass shootings this weekend.

    McConnell “has been treated, released and is working from home in Louisville,” Popp said. “This afternoon he contacted Senators Cornyn and Portman to express his deepest sympathies for the people of El Paso and Dayton and discuss the senseless tragedies of this weekend.”

    So his work consists of expressing his deepest sympathies.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/04/mitch-mcconnell-fractures-shoulder-1446434

  163. 163
    germy says:

    I thought Biden’s claim to fame was his uncanny ability to reach across the aisle and “get things done” with republicans.

    He was Obama’s choice for VP because of that claim. Was Biden successful?

  164. 164

    @Dan B: So, the goal of the troll is contention and dissension?

  165. 165
    debbie says:

    @John Revolta:

    I kinda, maybe sorta hate that my first reaction was to pull out my tiny violin.

  166. 166
    Brachiator says:

    @germy:

    McConnell “has been treated, released and is working from home in Louisville,” Popp said.

    I would guess that Moscow Mitch has pretty good health insurance.

  167. 167
    Quinerly says:

    @Sure Lurkalot: I wasn’t aware that I said Biden was Obama’s legacy. My point was attacking Biden about Obama is harmful, imo. I’m really sick of the Biden hate on this blog. I don’t recall it when he was saying “big fucking deal.” I’ve made myself clear. Didn’t want Biden to run. But now that he is in, the other candidates need to concentrate on what they bring to the table to beat Trump. Not on an op ed written in the 1980’s or events that happened 40 years ago. Most voters associate Biden with Obama and figure he’s a good man since Obama picked him.

  168. 168
    wasabi gasp says:

    @Dan B: I’m considering changing my surname to Coolbeans. Join me, brother.

  169. 169
    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    Isn’t he forbidden from doing this, like he is from blocking people?

  170. 170
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @germy: No, Biden was/is an old school, white, lunch bucket Democrat in a lot of ways. Choosing Biden and Biden accepting told the Gephardt/O’Neil/etc., types that Obama was okay and that it was safe to vote for him.

  171. 171
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Brachiator: “I never said Mexico would pay for the wall” ~ Jan 10, 2019.

  172. 172
    debbie says:

    @joel hanes:

    Just checked. They’re all gone. Hope they’ve been archived somewhere.

  173. 173

    @tokyokie: The fees keep increasing because that’s how USCIS is run, on the application fees for various immigration benefits/visas etc.

  174. 174
    Mike in DC says:

    I think there are really only 3 viable nominees at this point: Biden, Warren and Harris. I’m a Harris supporter, and Biden would be my third choice, but I do think that generally their messaging on white nationalism is all on point. It has gotten considerably easier to link Trump to white supremacist violence since his racist tweets of the past month, and with this latest attack. And we’re still more than a year away from the election.

  175. 175
    debbie says:

    @MomSense:

    Great news!

  176. 176
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    This is a God I can love. My favorite from last night:

    This entire Presidency is a hate crime.— God (@TheTweetOfGod) August 4, 2019

  177. 177
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Mike in DC: it was only 10 short months ago when MAGA terrorists started massacring Jews and mailing mass letter bombs.

  178. 178
    Brachiator says:

    @germy:

    I thought Biden’s claim to fame was his uncanny ability to reach across the aisle and “get things done” with republicans.

    He was Obama’s choice for VP because of that claim. Was Biden successful?

    An old Atlantic article claims that Biden forged a strong partnership with Obama.

    As the inevitable brinksmanship plays out, it’s useful to step back and look at just how central a role Biden has played throughout Obama’s presidency.

    Over the past four years Biden has insinuated himself into the White House, while seeming hardly to try, in a way that no other vice president in memory has done. He and Obama, both consummate pragmatists though they tend to be liberal in outlook, have achieved something close to a mind meld across a whole range of issues, including foreign policy, the economy, and political strategy. Biden said it outright in his speech during the presidential campaign: “I literally get to be the last guy in the room with the president. That’s our arrangement.” That’s no small thing in a town where power is often measured in minutes of presidential face time.

    Oddly enough, the article praises Biden’s ability to deal with Mitch McConnell.

    Or maybe it is just that, in the awkward pattern of political dance partnerships that have emerged over the last couple of years, whenever Barack Obama and Speaker John Boehner fail to execute — as they did after the “Plan B” debacle — it’s Biden and his old Senate colleague, Mitch McConnell, who step into the spotlight. The Biden-McConnell duo didn’t cut it during last year’s cliffhanger over the debt limit, of course. But in a sign of just how important a figure the vice president has become in Washington, Biden’s absence until now has been one reason that Republicans doubted Obama’s seriousness about cutting a deal, my colleague Chris Frates reported last week.

    https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/266729/#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

  179. 179
    Mike in DC says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: There are a lot of slow learners in the media and in the electorate. The more incidents that occur, the easier it is to overcome that innate resistance to connect those final dots.

  180. 180
    HRA says:

    When Obama said he was running for president, a number of senators urged him to reconsidered and wait till he gathered more years in the Senate. Obama told this in a public interview and said he thought if “not now, then when”. Yes, I can!
    Biden, IMHO was chosen to shut down the naysayers and help with them not blocking Obama’s efforts.

  181. 181
    Another Scott says:

    @germy: I thought Biden’s purpose was to make enough voters comfortable with the Democratic ticket to vote for Obama/Biden and thereby win the election.

    He doesn’t bring that much else to the ticket these days, IMHO.

    He dropped out in 2008 in January after doing poorly in Iowa.

    Barack Obama – 32%
    Hillary Clinton – 25%
    John Edwards – 24%
    Bill Richardson – 6%
    Joe Biden – 4%
    Christopher Dodd – 2%
    Dennis Kucinich – 1%
    Mike Gravel – 0%

    Every poll I’ve seen shows every major Democratic candidate beating Donnie this time. 2018 shows us that the GOP has major vulnerabilities and that new Democratic candidates can do well.

    I’m looking for a Presidential nominee who will do everything in their power to run up the score everywhere, because without the majority we can’t have sensible redistricting, we can’t have sensible trade policy, we can’t have sensible law enforcement, we can’t have sensible environmental policies, and all the rest. We need blowout victories to get the troglodytes to scurry back under their rocks and to stop creating more of them.

    AFAIK, Biden has mostly been hiding from the public except for attending high-cost fundraisers. What support has he given to other candidates (not a leading question)?

    Maybe Biden would/will be great. But I think Warren is a much, much stronger candidate (though I do continue to worry a little about the “I’d be happy to vote for a woman, but not any actual live woman her.’ It’s still very early, and as long as the major candidates have millions of dollars to spend, I see no need for any of them to drop out before actual votes are taken. The political junkies can pay attention and people with real lives to worry about can continue to ignore it if they want.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  182. 182
    Quinerly says:

    @Mike in DC: agree.

  183. 183
    Matt says:

    None of your high minded, ideologically pure agenda is going to ever get enacted if you don’t stand with those standing with Lady Liberty against the nationalist conservatives, the white supremacists, neo-nationalists, neo-fascists, and neo-NAZIs.

    OTOH, none of the wishy-washy centrist agenda will either in that case – maybe it’s time for the people who’ve been coddling the proto-fascists for thirty years to stop wringing their hands about “are we moving too far left” and STFU.

    If moderates want to insist that “now is not the time to debate policy”, let’s instead debate how moderates’ desperate need for “both sides” got us to this place.

  184. 184
    Dan B says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Meant as a general observation for everyone. You’re already on top of it but I like to be reminded. It us particularly pertinent for me after watching The Great Hack – Russian cointelpro tactics weaponized across the internet.

  185. 185
    Chyron HR says:

    @Matt:

    DUH MODAWATES weren’t the ones telling people to stay home in 2016 because Hillary and Trump were equally bad, friendo.

  186. 186
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Another Scott: I think a Harris/Warren or a Warren/Harris ticket would drive turnout like crazy. And that’s gonna be what makes 2020 a very different year than 2016 for Democrats in races all across the nation.

  187. 187
    Dan B says:

    @germy: Convenient for Moscow Mitchell to avoid his adoring crowds. (Assuming we’ve all seen the videos of them singing Moskie’s ‘praises’.)

    The optics were a little iffy.

  188. 188
    Brachiator says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    Sorry, I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

  189. 189
    Sure Lurkalot says:

    @Quinerly: Inarticulately written. I understand that much of Biden’s appeal directly links to Obama, but I would also like Biden more if he displayed some of Obama’s ability to look back and admit error. My point being that Biden himself makes it difficult not to criticize Obama in criticizing him. I agree with you that it’s an own goal for Democrats.

  190. 190
    Jinchi says:

    @gene108:

    How to flip this idea around and show Trump is vulnerable?

    It’s not easy to convince anyone, but the facts are that Trump has never been popular and he has deliberately made enemies of virtually every community that isn’t rich, white and male. That isn’t a winning strategy.

    He only won 46% of the popular vote in 2016 (barely winning the electoral college with nailbiters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania). His popularity has dropped since then. He started on inauguration day with a net 2% positive approval-disapproval rating. He lost that in his first few weeks. His net approval has between -10% to -20% ever since. Democrats won by nearly a 9% margin in 2018 and they are highly motivated to get him out of office in 2020.

    I don’t think beating Trump is a slam dunk, people need to get to the polls, but it seems like a lot of people who laughed at the idea that an arrogant clown like Trump could win in 2016 were so shocked by his win that they’ve convinced themselves that he’s a political genius. Personally, I think 2020 will be a rout and that any one of the major Democratic candidates could defeat him.

  191. 191
    Joseph A Miller says:

    @wasabi gasp: GFY.

  192. 192
    Dan B says:

    @John Revolta: The Great Hack (Netflix) has a great analysis of the use of Facebook, and others, to micro-target individuals so each person gets a tailored news and advertisong feed. Susceptible individuals get feeds that are subtly alarming. Blogs get disruptive commenters who seem reasonable much of the time but regilarly rile up the crowd. This provides a distraction to the core issues and/or criminality.

    The Great Hack put the pieces together for me. Now it feels possible to effectively resist and get people on track.

  193. 193
    Dan B says:

    @wasabi gasp: What do you stand for?

  194. 194
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Matt:

    maybe it’s time for the people who’ve been coddling the proto-fascists for thirty years to stop wringing their hands about “are we moving too far left” and STFU.

    Who has been coddling proto-fascists? I will also note that if the far left can’t bring themselves to vote for Democrats because they are too compromised, they are bringing it on themselves. If the votes aren’t there on the left and Dems want to win, they need to appeal to centrists. I would posit that the actual ideological center if the Democratic party is quite a bit to the left of what is indicated by legislation. Things have to be tailored in such a way that leadership can get the votes of the Manchins, etc. If there had been, for example, 65 Dems in the Senate when the ACA was in play, it would have been a much more left leaning law. Dems could not lose a single Conserva-Dem, so they were wielding power well in excess of their numbers. Nader and Stein voters as well as leftists who stayed home led to compromised policy-making.

  195. 195
    Brachiator says:

    @Quinerly:

    @Another Scott:

    People seem to have forgotten how highly Obama esteemed Biden. From a WaPo article.

    Why Joe Biden Was an unusual and effective vice president

    Joel Goldstein. January 18, 2017

    In two unprecedented acts in 48 hours, President Barack Obama confirmed yet again the essential role Vice President Joe Biden has played in his administration. Obama’s shout-out to Biden during his Farewell Address was unique enough, but the President’s surprise award to Biden of the Presidential Medal of Freedom with Distinction and his effusive accompanying remarks were even more unprecedented.

    Even for those who reject the President’s view that Biden is “the best Vice President America has ever had,” he has shaped the second office in ways beyond his contributions to the Obama administration….

    Clearly, Biden’s experience in Congress and in foreign policy and his relationships were part of what he brought to the Obama administration. But a vice president’s continuing influence rests on job performance, not on prior years of experience or a Rolodex. Biden’s consequence depended heavily on the perception of Obama and others that he was a wise counselor and effective operator. Obama’s tributes confirm their unusually close relationship and suggest Biden’s unprecedented vice-presidential clout, as Professor Karine Premont wrote in an interesting paper at the last week’s meeting of the Southern Political Science Association.

    Ironically, this piece also asserts that Biden wisely did not have presidential ambitions himself.

    ETA. No link provided. The WaPo site is fighting with me over free articles

  196. 196
    different-church-lady says:

    It isn’t going to be won by arguing over who is or is not the most progressive…

    “Oh. Well then I’m not interested.”

    (Said half the on-line left…)

  197. 197
    Jinchi says:

    @Baud: @Quinerly:

    Biden’s not high on my list either, mainly because I honestly have no idea why the man wants to be president. But I’d enthusiastically support any of the major candidates against Trump (and most of minor ones). Despite the cast of thousands, this primary already seems to be sorting itself out into 5 real contenders. I hope people will vote for their favorite in the primary and consolidate behind the winner for November.

  198. 198
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Jinchi:

    Wow, thank you for that. I hope you’re right.

  199. 199
    Another Scott says:

    @Brachiator: Obama is always glowing about everyone he compliments.

    And I have no doubt that they got along well.

    But he wasn’t “co-president” or something. And Biden’s got a habit of changing history to blow his own horn.

    Did Obama do anything important with Biden between the time they left office and Biden announced? I’m not aware of anything.

    To be clear – I’m advocating that we be clear-eyed about the candidates, not dreamy-eyed about the past with Obama. “There’s no returning to ‘normal’; the only way out is through.” – A. Silverman.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  200. 200
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I picked up the torch a day before T became President of the United States by applying for citizenship. I realized that I had to choose a side

    Love this! Well said!

  201. 201
    Steeplejack (phone) says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Warning against excessive cavorting.

  202. 202
    wasabi gasp says:

    @Joseph A Miller: lol at you popping your head up out a hole to make that squeaky sound.

  203. 203
    wasabi gasp says:

    @Dan B: Not much Dan, I have internet.

  204. 204
    Jinchi says:

    @dmsilev:

    I think the 20-person debates were fine for the summer when, lets face it, it doesn’t really matter

    I think the 20-person debates were pretty effective at separating the Harrises from the O’Rourkes.

    But yes, I’m looking forward to narrowing the field down.

  205. 205
    Brachiator says:

    @Another Scott:

    Obama is always glowing about everyone he compliments.

    Awarding Biden the Medal of Freedom was a big fucking deal. More than a mere compliment.

    And I have no doubt that they got along well.

    But he wasn’t “co-president” or something. And Biden’s got a habit of changing history to blow his own horn.

    None of the articles I mentioned feature Biden blowing his own horn. And they get into some detail on how Obama and Biden worked together. No, Biden was not co-president, but he also was not just some random mook hanging around.

    No one is being dreamy-eyed about the past with Obama. And Biden is not my guy. But it is pretty damn clear that the people who support Biden have a good understanding of why he was chosen and how he supported and helped Obama. And they are not wrong when they see that Biden can defeat Trump.

  206. 206
    Sam says:

    Trump will not back off. The dynamic is unstable; Adam assumes status quo to the 2020 election, and I think this is just wrong. Trump thrives on chaos and division, why would he stop?

    We are in very dangerous times, the violence and rhetoric are escalating. Something way bad will happen long before the election.

  207. 207
    Brachiator says:

    @Sam:

    Something way bad will happen long before the election.

    Something bad is already happening.

  208. 208
    Jinchi says:

    @Brachiator:

    The Biden-McConnell duo didn’t cut it during last year’s cliffhanger over the debt limit, of course. But in a sign of just how important a figure the vice president has become in Washington, Biden’s absence until now has been one reason that Republicans doubted Obama’s seriousness about cutting a deal

    Is this supposed to be a Biden selling point? Because I remember McConnell joking about “taking hostages” with the debt ceiling and the Obama/Biden solution was the austerity-lite sequestration. Obama wasn’t supposed to “cut a deal” he was supposed to cut McConnell off at the knees.

    I much prefer Nancy Pelosi’s strategy when Trump pulled the same stunt.

  209. 209
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    @wasabi gasp:

    Sorry, I have no idea what point you are trying to make.

    Wasabi Gasp has no point to make, they’re just a run of the mill Troll, trying to sow arguments between the Democrats — perhaps a Russian troll, perhaps a home grown fascist, what difference does that make? None!

    ETA:

    wasabi gasp — go die in a fire!

  210. 210
    Ruckus says:

    @germy:

    So his work consists of expressing his deepest sympathies.

    Would you ever expect anything more from him?
    And if so, why?

  211. 211
    Sam says:

    @Brachiator: yeah my point is that it will get worse and there is likely to be a nonlinearity. A full fledged riot, mob on mob violence, who knows.

    I’m a yellow dog Dem, but this cycle have become almost uninterested in the Dem candidates. We can debate policy later. Right now we just have to survive Trump.

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