Live Feed of the El Paso Police Department Update

Here’s the live feed. The update is ongoing. Was officially scheduled for 3:30 local time in El Paso, but apparently started early.

NBC is now reporting 19 dead and 40 wounded, though Sergeant Gomez who is doing the briefing is being careful about casualty numbers because he indicates they may not have all the updated information yet.

Open thread!






157 replies
  1. 1
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    NBC reporting 19 dead, police not willing to confirm any casualty reports (from TV, not Adam’s live feed)

  2. 2
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Local reporter said that one hospital said they have lost one person while being treated.

  3. 3
    Martin says:

    Republicans comprehensive immigration plan at work, everyone.

  4. 4
    Jay C says:

    The EPPD spokesman seems basically, at this point, not confirming much of anything.
    I understand their not wanting to give out inaccurate info: but AFAICT, there is a lot more data available on the
    Internet and the news media than the El Paso police are releasing.

  5. 5
    The Dangerman says:

    If it was like Gilroy, if it was an apparent White Surpremecist, it’ll quickly be forgotten (with his name, I don’t see it being MS-13, which would be in the news through 2020).

  6. 6
    Another Scott says:

    Relatedly, Twitter:

    Dave Levinthal Verified account @davelevinthal

    This is what El Paso Mayor Dee Margo told @publicintegrity about Trump’s refusal to pay police bills sent by the city to his campaign committee:

    [ graphic mentioning $470,417 that Donnie’s campaign owes for a February 11 campaign rally near the border ]

    1:43 PM – 3 Aug 2019

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  7. 7
    RedDirtGirl says:

    I am so done with this timeline, guys.

  8. 8
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    NBC is now reporting 19 dead and 40 wounded

    Im sure the numbers are fluid, but whether they ultimately go up or down, this is just fucking obscene.

    And I’ve already forgotten the casualty count from last week’s garlic festival.

  9. 9
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @The Dangerman: His name is Patrick Crusius. He’s white.

  10. 10
    Martin says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thankfully only 3 plus the shooter.

  11. 11
    Another Scott says:

    @The Dangerman: Unpossible.

    We’re still talking about the gunman who shot up the Dallas federal courthouse years months six weeks ago.

    Err…

    (sigh)

    I agree with everyone that it’s long past time that we stopped allowing the 2nd Amendment absolutists to put all of us at risk. When was the last time we heard about how vital the 3rd Amendment is to our way of life and preventing government tyranny??

    Grr…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  12. 12
    sukabi says:

    @Another Scott: El Paso isn’t the only locale that drumpf and Pence have refused to reimburse for security and other associated costs. Bankrupting one town after another.

    Someone needs to put together a list of all the venues they’ve stiffed and post it on line.

  13. 13
    Elizabelle says:

    I don’t understand why El Paso cannot get a better handle on the casualty numbers.

    Victims are either dead, on life support, or alive.

  14. 14
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @sukabi: Reminds me of the English kings visiting their nobles.

  15. 15
    Sloane Ranger says:

    Thanks for the information in the previous thread. It is outrageous that people are expected to pay for the privilege of being shot by what appears to be a white supremacist.

    If State governments want to encourage widespread gun ownership, shouldn’t they take responsibility for underwriting a totally foreseeable outcome and take responsibility for paying the medical bills of the innocent victims of accidents and deliberate shootings?

  16. 16
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Petty of me, perhaps, but even in times of great tragedy and chaos I can’t turn off the Pedant Within. From FTFNYT:

    As Mr. Uruchurtu fled the store with a hoard of people, he saw two bodies on the ground outside, one surrounded by a pool of blood.

    (Yes, I know it’s breaking news. Still offends my eye.)

  17. 17
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Sloane Ranger: Have you seen the people running Texas?

  18. 18
    Mike in NC says:

    Shooting in a Wal-Mart. How appropriate. We seldom venture there but will be armed with a chainsaw and sticks of dynamite next time we need fucking cat food.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike in NC: Flamethrower. Can’t be too careful.

  20. 20

    @Mike in NC: Last week was the first time I’d been in a Walmart in about 25 years, my photographer friend wanted my opinion of flashlights for light painting for our trip to Joshua Tree. I can wait another 25 years for a a return visit.

  21. 21
    NeenerNeener says:

    I think I’m going to start doing ALL my shopping online, including groceries, and just have it delivered to my front door. At least until Instacart drivers start going on house-to-house killing sprees, anyway.

  22. 22
    chopper says:

    @Another Scott:

    apparently the dude didn’t get rich by writing a lot of checks. (for differing definitions of ‘rich’)

  23. 23

    @Another Scott: Pretty well known that Trump doesn’t pay for ‘services rendered’.

  24. 24
    Mike in Pasadena says:

    Thots and preyers.
    said any random Republican congress critter

  25. 25
  26. 26
    dr. bloor says:

    @Elizabelle: I was on staff at St. Vincent’s in NYC after the first attack on the World Trade Center in the 90’s. It is not nearly as easy to clarify and compile information as you seem to imagine.

  27. 27
    Sab says:

    @Sloane Ranger: Las Vegas was a concert with lots of out of state tourists, so their medical treatment was often out of network for their insurance coverage. And those who were badly injured probably lost their jobs (and therefore their insurance coverage) when they were unable to return to work in a reasonable amount of time.

  28. 28
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Fair point.

  29. 29
  30. 30
    Elizabelle says:

    @dr. bloor: What accounts for that? Patient privacy?

  31. 31
    RedDirtGirl says:

    @Elizabelle: the public info officer says that some people were removed from the scene by other civilians so are not accounted for yet.

  32. 32
    TS (the original) says:

    @sukabi:

    at least 10 cities he’s refused to pay back for security costs

    trump campaign doesn’t raise money for campaign costs – it raises money for trump

  33. 33
    raven says:

    @Elizabelle: I don’t understand why there is such a rush for numbers?

  34. 34
    Martin says:

    @Elizabelle: There’s patient privacy. There’s not wanting to announce a fatality before the family has been notified. There’s a real tracking problem. Victim gets taken to hospital A, are reported as a victim of the shooting, is transferred to hospital B with better facilities, is reported as a victim of the shooting. 1 victim or two? Some are being medivac some distance. Did you contact all facilities that received wounded? Are they clear that they came from this event and not some other event, etc.

    It’s not super hard, it’s not trivial, but getting the police an accurate count is just about their lowest priority.

  35. 35
    Another Scott says:

    OT – Reuters:

    LONDON (Reuters) – Lawmakers will be unable to stop a no-deal Brexit on Oct. 31 by bringing down Britain’s government in a vote of no confidence next month, Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s top aide has advised, according to the Sunday Telegraph.

    Dominic Cummings, one of architects of the 2016 campaign to leave the European Union, told ministers that Johnson could schedule a general election after the Oct. 31 Brexit deadline if he loses a vote of no confidence in parliament, the newspaper said, citing sources.

    Johnson has promised to lead Britain out of the EU on Oct. 31 with or without a deal but has a working majority of just one after his Conservative Party lost a parliamentary seat on Friday.

    Some of his lawmakers have hinted they would vote against him to prevent a no-deal Brexit — a rising prospect that has sent the pound tumbling to 30-month lows against the dollar over the last few days.

    Lawmakers are unable to table a motion of no confidence before next month because the House of Commons is in recess until Sept. 3.

    “(Lawmakers) don’t realise that if there is a no-confidence vote in September or October, we’ll call an election for after the 31st and leave anyway,” Cummings was quoted by one of the Sunday Telegraph’s sources as saying.

    […]

    The GOP Prion Disease has continued its spread throughout the UK. They’ll threaten to destroy everything unless they get their way.

    I hope the loyal opposition has gamed all this out and has ways to prevent a no-agreement Brexit, but given the way this has played out since Cameron agreed to the stupid referendum in the first place, I’m not optimistic…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  36. 36
    Elizabelle says:

    @raven: Good point. I guess we will know soon enough.

    I plead guilty to falling prey to “cable news” time. (Although I am not watching it. Have noticed that neither the WaPost nor the NY Times or LA Times will go with a number. I appreciate their waiting for confirmation there…)

    Heading out for now. Bit of a pall over the day. Thanks, shooter (of this episode).

  37. 37
    dr. bloor says:

    @Elizabelle: That would be at the bottom of the list. In a situation like EP, I would imagine more than one treatment center is involved, transport for victims provided by multiple official and unofficial carriers, and they don’t arrive at the hospital with t-shirts that say “Walmart Shooting Victim.” Your scoresheet is also probably wrong by the time you finish counting, others have wandered into the ER, and the statuses of some that you counted have already changed.

    Just be patient and wait a little if two versus ten versus forty dead makes a difference to you. The dead aren’t going anywhere.

  38. 38
    Martin says:

    @Another Scott: No deal was the only thing that was ever going to happen. Now they just have to figure out how to live with it.

  39. 39
    Elizabelle says:

    @Martin: Thank you. Good points.

  40. 40
    Yarrow says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Texas legislature elections are happening in 2020. It is definitely possible for the Democrats to take back control of the state House. Possibly even the state Senate, although it’s a bit of a longshot.

    As Republicans have sought to get their own in order for 2020, state and national Democrats have been drawing up preliminary battle plans to take the House. Their path runs through a group of 18 districts — 17 where Republicans won by single digits last year, as well as House District 32. That’s where Rep. Todd Hunter, R-Corpus Christi, ran unopposed while U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, won by just 5 points.

    Of course, Democrats have to simultaneously defend the 12 seats they picked up last year, some of which have already drawn serious GOP opposition.

    The path is “tough but possible to flip the chamber,” said Patrick Rodenbush, a spokesman for the National Democratic Redistricting Committee, the group chaired by former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. “We feel like there are enough potential targets out there that nine is doable, but it is gonna take a lot of work and resources.”

    Link. Those state legislatures are where the real action and change will happen.

  41. 41
    Elizabelle says:

    @dr. bloor: Yeah, I am glad that ER and stabilizing trumps PR. Don’t distract the medical care in process.

  42. 42
    Duane says:

    @Martin: Lay every bit of the continuing gun carnage at the feet GOP. ( Gun’s Own Party.)
    Mental health issues, gun laws, no excuses for the jackasses that have created, promoted and glorified this evil. The hell with republicans and being reasonable. Make it stop.

  43. 43
    different-church-lady says:

    This country now responds to every major tragedy and crisis with a shrug.

  44. 44
    raven says:

    In general, I support the Christchurch shooter and his manifesto. This attack is a response to the Hispanic invasion of Texas. They are the instigators, not me. I am simply defending my country from cultural and ethnic replacement brought on by an invasion. Some people will think this statement is hypocritical because of the nearly complete ethnic and cultural destruction brought to the Native Americans by our European ancestors, but this just reinforces my point. The natives didn’t take the invasion of Europeans seriously, and now what’s left is just a shadow of what was. My motives for this attack are not at all personal. Actually the Hispanic community was not my target before I read The Great Replacement. This manifesto will cover the political and economic reasons behind the attack, my gear, my expectations of what response this will generate and my personal motivations and thoughts.”

  45. 45
    Elizabelle says:

    @Duane: Guns’ Own Party. I like that.

    With a major assist from Moscow Mitch.

  46. 46
    RAVEN says:

    @dr. bloor: I remember at time when we were all into body counts. We lost that shit too.

  47. 47
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @raven:

    Jesus Christ.

  48. 48
    trollhattan says:

    @raven: @SiubhanDuinne:
    Huh. I wonder what the primary language spoken in what is now El Paso was, in the early 19th century?

    ETA–if he’s a Christchurch copycat he’s doing it wrong. Gunning for Muslims in a Texas Walmart? I don’t think so.

  49. 49
    Mike in DC says:

    Shut down 8chan and related sites. ASAFP. And the next president needs to empower their AG to crack down on all these far right extremists, sovereign citizens, militias, white supremacists and various boosters. Anyone mainstreaming this hateful bile needs to be boycotted hard. Fuck “viewpoint discrimination”. This is fomenting domestic terrorism.

  50. 50
    Ruckus says:

    @Elizabelle:
    Mine is Greasy Old Poop party.
    Not really a lot of differences from @Duane’s: take, they really are full of shit either way.

  51. 51
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @trollhattan:

    I wonder what the primary language spoken in what is now El Paso was, in the early 19th century?

    You’d think the actual name of the actual town would be an actual clue.

  52. 52
    trollhattan says:

    @Mike in DC:
    IIRC there was a Justice Department focus on domestic RW terrorism early in the Obama Administration, because it was heavily referenced at the big Tea Party rollout rally I went to.

    “WE’RE not the enemy, THEY are. We’re PATRIOTS!!!” Wah-wah-wah.

  53. 53
    Shrillhouse says:

    As I always say after these all-too-common mass shootings:

    The bloodbath will continue until Democrats are ready to have a serious conversation about violent video games and rap lyrics…

  54. 54
    Harbison says:

    What is wrong with this country when you can’t even go to the Walmart? Is nothing sacred?

    Why can’t we go back to the good old days 40 or 50 years ago when this country was so much safer??? https://www.infoplease.com/us/crime/homicide-rate-1950-2014

    Obviously the best way to discourage future attacks like this is to widely discuss the shooter’s political and and social views and spread them to as large a group of people as possible.

  55. 55
    Martin says:

    @Mike in DC: 8chan isn’t fomenting terrorism. The president is, and government officials saying things like this are:

    And in early 2018, federal investigators found a raft of disturbing and racist text messages sent by Border Patrol agents in southern Arizona after searching the phone of Matthew Bowen, an agent charged with running down a Guatemalan migrant with a Ford F-150 pickup truck. The texts, which were revealed in a court filing in federal court in Tucson, described migrants as “guats,” “wild ass shitbags,” “beaners” and “subhuman.” The messages included repeated discussions about burning the migrants up.

    The other shit has always been there. It’s the validating action from elected officials that draws it out in this way.

  56. 56
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    @trollhattan: ‘When we stole-er, annexed Texas from Mexico in 1845?

  57. 57
    sukabi says:

    @trollhattan: some version of Spanish and several dialects of Native American with a few speaking kings english, french and tail between the legs confederate.

  58. 58
    lamh36 says:

    Damn…something to think about…the possibility that folks are too afraid of ICE and too scared to seek help at local medical services…

    @juliettekayyem
    Follow Follow @juliettekayyem
    More
    My two cents as this deputy speaks and suggests they worry that people are doing self-care or left scene:
    El Paso officials should make it clear there will be no immigration enforcement at hospitals or family reunification centers. Period.
    MAKE IT CLEAR. #ElPasoShooting @CNN

    4:33 PM – 3 Aug 2019

    https://twitter.com/juliettekayyem/status/1157766492907298817

  59. 59
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mike in DC:

    Anyone mainstreaming this hateful bile needs to be boycotted hard

    Difficult to boycott half the federal government.

  60. 60
    Jay C says:

    @trollhattan:

    ETA–if he’s a Christchurch copycat he’s doing it wrong. Gunning for Muslims in a Texas Walmart? I don’t think so.

    I think the “Christchurch” reference is more likely “bravely taking decisive action against an ‘invasion’ of the [white] homeland by swarthy dangerous ‘Others'” – not “muslims” per se.

  61. 61
    trollhattan says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:
    I’m in the middle of Chernow’s Grant biography, which delves far deeper into the Mexican campaign than anything I’d read previously. Nasty, brutish, bloody business, and the whole tragicomedy of errors in the planning, organization and support is something to behold. Grant had some flashes of brilliance that foretold his Civil War successes much later, though.

  62. 62
    trollhattan says:

    @Jay C:
    Probably, but I don’t want to project too much nuance onto our neonazi gunhumpers.

  63. 63
    Ruckus says:

    At least the EPPD public information officer’s last name is Gomez and he speaks fluent Spanish. That actually says a lot, if you think about it.

  64. 64
    patrick II says:

    I’m betting that more Than 19 people, including children, have died in American concentration camps in the lost two plus years. This murderer is a terrible person, but how much worse than the powerful people who taught him that some lives have no value.

  65. 65
    BC in Illinois says:

    @lamh36:
    From twitter:

    shauna
    @goldengateblond
    JFC. Heard a reporter say some of those injured in the #ElPasoShooting may be avoiding hospitals and family reunification centers because they’re afraid of ICE.
    4:45 PM · Aug 3, 2019

    Now, this is nothing I would be able to verify, but this is why the city had to put out a public statement. So that people would feel safe enough to come to the hospital to check on a loved one.

  66. 66
    Jay says:

    Friends in El Paso, please donate blood if you can. https://t.co/YSd1oXYId3— RAICES (@RAICESTEXAS) August 3, 2019

  67. 67
    Martin says:

    @BC in Illinois: And why should they believe that people that call them ‘subhuman’ would follow those rules?

  68. 68
    Ruckus says:

    @patrick II:
    Not just espousing that these lives have no value but that the world is a better place without those lives, That’s not just hate, that’s instigation of murder.

  69. 69
    trollhattan says:

    Jesus Christ. Elsewhere in Texas.

    Woman killed as US police officer fires at dog in Arlington, Texas

    A woman in the US has died of a gunshot wound after a police officer fired his gun when he saw a barking dog running towards him. The unnamed policeman was responding to a call about the woman in Arlington, Texas. She has been named as 30-year-old Margarita Brooks.

    She died of her injury in hospital.

    Police have described it as a tragedy, and say an investigation is under way.

  70. 70
    Ruckus says:

    @Martin:
    I thought you meant don’t follow those rules, not, would they follow those rules.

  71. 71
    zzyzx says:

    @Martin: 8chan most definitely is fomenting terrorism. They egg people on to shooting up mosques. They bitch if the body count isn’t high enough. Their only complaint is that no one is targeting the Jews. It’s a scary place.

  72. 72
    trollhattan says:

    I see we have an early favorite for next Texas governor.

    Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, however, said gun control would probably not have stopped the attack.

    He added that if a “crazy” gunman launches such an attack, there is no way that law enforcement officers could be there to stop it. “The best way is to be prepared to defend yourself,” he told CBS News.

  73. 73
    Marmot says:

    @Ruckus: That is blowing the minds of a lot of the commerntariat here, I’m sure.

  74. 74
    zhena gogolia says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Because we’re exhausted.

  75. 75
    Jay says:

    Who do you hold complicit in this mass murder? Lets take a good look at Jim Watkins, the man keeping 8chan active for the worst people of the internet.https://t.co/hQq34mMQRT— Chris EqualPayForWomen Sampson (@TAPSTRIMEDIA) August 3, 2019

  76. 76
    zhena gogolia says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I do not have permission to edit my comment. I wanted to add that the riot police were out in the streets of Moscow beating people again today over their peaceful demands for a free and fair election to the city council.

    The world has gone mad.

  77. 77
    Ruckus says:

    @Marmot:
    I’d bet not. We seem to be a diverse look at the world on this blog. But I thought that it was rather poignant all things considered.
    He’s good too, it takes a lot of professionalism not to crack at all with some of inane questions asked in a situation like that.

  78. 78
    Jay says:

    Since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, today marks the 2,187th mass shooting reported. #ElPaso pic.twitter.com/UNRoh0QBCn— Disaster Alert ⚠ (@DisasterAlert19) August 3, 2019

  79. 79
    Ruckus says:

    @zhena gogolia:
    The world has always been mad. We were just mistaken that it had gone sane for about 20 minutes one day in the last 100 yrs.

  80. 80
    lamh36 says:

    Ugh…just saw LIVE footage of El Paso and one of the vans had “Border Patrol” stenciled on it.

    like…if you want folks to come get help…maybe NOT have the freakn’ police car be a border patrol car…smh

  81. 81
    lamh36 says:

    Lordt my sister lives in DFW and she mentioned a 4 month old…

    I asked her where she heard that.

    I know I saw headlines that said at least 4 children…jesus

    Has there been any legit reporting about it?

    https://twitter.com/ScottMStedman/status/1157766033475809281

  82. 82
    Buckeye says:

    @Another Scott:

    The GOP Prion Disease has continued its spread throughout the UK.

    I’ll give Pierce credit for having actually read up on prion diseases, unlike almost everyone else who compares the GOP and mad cow disease.
    But as my mother died of Creutzfeld-Jakob, a prion disease, it’s still a comparison that pisses me off.

  83. 83
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @lamh36: @BC in Illinois: Unfortunately if ICE decides to do a sweep, El Paso PD can’t do much to stop them. And I was actually speculating that someone in an ICE office was probably thinking “hey, we should do a sweep at the family reunification center!” earlier when talking to my mom about what was happening a couple of hours ago,

  84. 84
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: The cop was 25 and, apparently, had just graduated from the police academy, been hired, and started working. Seriously inexperienced officer.

  85. 85
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: And none of the armed Texan good guys and gals did that at all. I guarantee there were 100s of conceal carriers in that mall. And likely dozens in the WalMart.

  86. 86
    B.B.A. says:

    How about a compromise: white men aren’t allowed to buy guns, but the other 70% of the population still can. This ought to prevent mass shootings while still retaining the Founders’ intent for an armed populace to act as a check against government overreach. What do you all think of my modest proposal?

  87. 87
    Jay says:

    Reminder: Manifestos are not intended to be the innermost workings of a terrorist’s mind. They are intended to be spread. https://t.co/ZR9QKZG13H— Jane Coaston (@cjane87) August 3, 2019

  88. 88
    The Dangerman says:

    @lamh36:

    …if you want folks to come get help…

    There’s your answer.

  89. 89
    lamh36 says:

    Pete Williams on MSNBC now discussing the shooters “essay”.

    Pete also said that LEO have pretty much confirmed that the “essay” posted was written by the suspect in custory

    Per Pete, the “essay” looks to be written long before today, but it was only posted about 1 hour before the attack.

    So even if LEO were aware of the post…not enough time to seek out shooter before the shooting took place

  90. 90
    Mike in DC says:

    This is NOT “yet another senseless mass shooting”. This was a terrorist act by a white supremacist extremist, the latest in a long and frequent series of such terroristic attacks by radical white supremacists. And they were incited and fomented by Alex Jones, Lou Dobbs, Tucker Carlson, the alt right, 8 chan, r/pol/The Donald, and of course Trump himself.

  91. 91
    DigitalAmish says:

    @trollhattan: And if I remember correctly one of the first policy shifts of the Trump Justice Dept. was to de-emphasis that focus.

  92. 92
    lamh36 says:

    @lamh36:

    FYI: Pete Williams used the word “essay rather than “manifesto”. His thought was that calling it a “manifesto” is giving the shooter to much credit. That it wasn’t something so much “as grand a word as a manifesto” . instead an “essay” or “rant” was more appropriate words

  93. 93

    @trollhattan: So “Good Guy with a Gun” it is, that’s shown a high success rate. //

  94. 94
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: @DigitalAmish: The project you’re referring to was actually started by the Bush 43 administration. The first analytical report came out around the time that President Obama was inaugurated. And Republican elected officials at all levels, Fox News, right wing talk radio, conservative newspapers and digital platforms, the nascent conservative social media all started screaming bloody murder that everyday conservatives and Republicans were being smeared, libeled, and slandered by Obama. So the Obama DHS quickly pulled the report and then shuttered the section at DHS. I have a copy of the report.

  95. 95
    Jay says:

    Within the past 24 hours, Trump has retweeted two Muslim-bashing posts by a Brit who called for a “final solution” after the Manchester attacks and blamed the Tree of Life synagogue massacre on a rabbi’s support for refugees.Trump now amplifies her regularly.— Adam Klasfeld (@KlasfeldReports) August 3, 2019

  96. 96
    apocalipstick says:

    @TS (the original): This one reason why (unlike much of our media), I don’t care about his fundraising. He’s not going to spend it on the campaign; he thinks of it as his money. Look at the inauguration.

  97. 97
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    Abbott sounds like a televangelist.

  98. 98
  99. 99
  100. 100
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: He pretty much is.

  101. 101
    DigitalAmish says:

    @Adam L Silverman: obiously I don’t know how to post a link.

  102. 102
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @DigitalAmish: Different program. That program, which the President’s DHS transition landing team started to wind down almost immediately, was intended to focus on all forms of extremism in order to promote deradicalization. The people involved with killing it including Katie Gorka, the wife of the Blue Footed Boobie of Budapest, and a crackpot named Frank Wuco.

  103. 103
    Jay says:

    Thank you to everyone who worked to get word out and amplifying re: countering this nazi rally in Philly.We ended up outnumbering them.They ended up hiding in corner protected by three lines of police, (including the counter-terrorism squad), like the cowards they are. 🤣 pic.twitter.com/VkoI3uzt9u— Gwen Snyder is uncivil (@gwensnyderPHL) August 3, 2019

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @DigitalAmish: You know what you did!

  105. 105
    Jay says:

    Seems like someone who had prior knowledge of a mass shooting and who did nothing would be a prime person for the FBI to take interest in but hey who knows, I'm not a cop. pic.twitter.com/PqSX9ur4RO— Jared Holt (@jaredlholt) August 3, 2019

  106. 106
    Steve Crickmore says:

    Don`t worry, the EL Paso shooter can´t be classified as a terrorist, because he is a white nationalist and rants away at the Great Repacement theory, the conspiracy theory the Presidental also likes. Trump has become one of the most influential proponents of that conspiracy theory. Reporting the Institute for Strategic Dialogue’s findings that Trump consistently referenced the Great Replacement, the president’s Twitter account was identified as one of the top ten promoters of the ideology. His history of describing Muslims and migrants as “invaders”, according to SBS News, closely mirrors the language of explicit supporters of the theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Replacement

  107. 107
    lamh36 says:

    hard eyeroll.

    FUQ U Mittens

    @SenatorRomney
    Follow Follow @SenatorRomney
    More
    Our hearts go out to the victims, families, and loved ones of the tragic shooting in El Paso. From what dark and repugnant corner of the mind comes such senseless and vile brutality?

    5:56 PM – 3 Aug 2019

  108. 108
    Jay says:

    While the GOP argues that antifascists are domestic terrorists, GOP primary candidate Paul Nehlen advocates for more mass shootings like the kind in El Paso today.In 2016, Nehlen won 15.92% of primary votes, and 11.1% in 2018.Hey @tedcruz— the GOP are the domestic terrorists. pic.twitter.com/4XRiJl959N— AntiFash Gordon (@AntiFashGordon) August 3, 2019

  109. 109
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Thanks, that fills in a lot of holes in my perforated memory. Of course, with a MOOSLIM in the WH it was the wrong time to point our attention anywhere else.

  110. 110
    debbie says:

    @lamh36:

    rom what dark and repugnant corner of the mind comes such senseless and vile brutality.

    The man you dined on frogs’ legs with.

  111. 111
    Jay says:

    Patriot Prayer associates harassing a meeting in Portland tonight. Haley Adams, Alyssa Vinsonhaler, Joseph Geraci, Mack Lewis, David Willis. Lewis and Willis are facing a $1M lawsuit for a violent attack against a Portland bar on 5/1/19. https://t.co/6063xoDicJ— 🏴 (@leftkist) August 3, 2019

    According to Richard Spencer, antifascists have "effectively pushed the Alt-Right off the streets," and now he's cheering on @tedcruz and #Trump for talking about labeling those that stand up to white supremacists "domestic terrorists." Don't believe us? Listen for yourself. pic.twitter.com/PVl44PHjce— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) August 2, 2019

  112. 112
    apocalipstick says:

    @trollhattan: Not Muslims; he “targeted” Hispanics.

  113. 113
    lamh36 says:

    @tommyxtopher
    54s54 seconds ago
    More
    “It’s a very tragic situation, it’s not something that El Paso would expect, we deal with our migrant issues, but we do not expect to have situations like this, so it’s an absolute tragedy.” El Paso Mayor Dee Margo

  114. 114
    jl says:

    @apocalipstick: Just heard a news report that authorities discovered some statement the shooter posted on social media (some 4chan discussion board, if I heard correctly) about the “Hispanic invasion of Texas” (huh what!?) had to be stopped, and this shooting was what he was going to do about it. The immediately afterward, they said authorities were still searching for a motive.

    I sure do hope those two statements were a result of one hand not know what the other had just come up with. OTOH, the guy was white so we have to be very very very careful to conclude a white person could be a terrorist, even if he just wrote something that strongly indicated that is exactly what the crime was.

    On the other hand, the Gilroy shooter was looking at such a mix of righ and left wing, and ‘off the looking glass and through the map’ outer-space crazy extremist shit, hard to say what he was trying to do. That person may have been nuts.

    But hard evidence that the El Paso shooting was more white reactionary racist (or xenophobic?) terrorism.

  115. 115
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve Crickmore: And Tucker Carlson has been pushing it on his prime time Fox News show for well over a year now.

  116. 116
    Jay says:

    @lamh36:

    Yup, the “hoocoodhavenood” after Dolt45 hosted a hatefest in your city, welched on the bill, and a dozen of el Paso Nazi’s got doxxed.

  117. 117
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Ruckus:

    Are usually refer to them as the Gross Old Pedophiles, but I may switch to Gun Owning Pedophiles instead.

  118. 118
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Harbison:

    Oh Christ, it’s this asshole.

  119. 119
    lamh36 says:

    Sigh…It’s easy Pete…here I’ll help you… “YES…Chump IS incidint white nationlist violence against immigrants and minorities!”

    See easy peasy…

    @notcapnamerica
    Following Following @notcapnamerica
    More
    .@PeteButtigieg just now when asked if Trump is inciting white nationalism: “Well he’s certainly not helping.”
    https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1157802193912770561

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: Neither the Gilroy shooter or today’s shooter are really mixing extreme right and left wing. There has always been a huge anti-corporate and environmental protection/conservation component to the extreme right in the US. But because of the mainstream politics on these issues, and how they’re covered, when they show up among white supremacists, neo-fascists. neo-nationalists, and neo-NAZIs it confuses the coverage.

  121. 121
    Kay says:

    Listened to the press conference with the government officials. They offer nothing.

    This country doesn’t function in the most basic ways. What’s the point of having a government if it can’t do anything, about anything?

  122. 122
    jl says:

    @raven: That seems to be statement as summarized in the news report I heard, If so, thanks for posting the statement. I hope we don’t hear any more BS about the authorities wondering what the motive was.

    And I note the the mention of ‘The Great Replacement’ which indicates the shooter was into antisemitism too. Like the Charlottesville chant that ‘They will not replace us’. ‘They’ are the Jews. Theory being, that blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, etc. are inferior, and no way they could achieve any status in our society other than ditch diggers and beasts of burden unless the clever and Satanic Jews, lead by a secret cabal of cosmopolitan financial oligarchs, were in the background orchestrating an infernal plot to promote them and displace the good white folk.

    So, the shooter was almost certainly a racist, xenophobic, antisemitic reactionary and very violent extremist. It was terrorism. And from the deepest darkest pit of Trump’s base.

  123. 123
    lamh36 says:

    @CharlesPPierce
    Dallas is eight hours from El Paso.
    He packed eye and ear protection.
    This wasn’t some spur of the moment thing.
    He was going off to war.
    Pissant war, but war nonetheless.

    https://twitter.com/CharlesPPierce/status/1157784578414850048

  124. 124
    lamh36 says:

    @Kay: I find myself to cynical to beleive anything the Pro-NRA Republican pols in Texas say about this.

    They are still beholden to NRA and basically sounded to me like a bunch of CYA…thoughts and prayers bullshit

  125. 125
    lamh36 says:

    MattMurph24
    Stop saying screed and essay. It was a fucking racist manifesto.
    https://twitter.com/MattMurph24/status/1157806204581756928

  126. 126
    jl says:

    @lamh36: Same hate the fascists and Nazi’s are motley crew of reactionaries were chanting at Charllottesville. Though we have been assured that there were fine people on both sides there.

  127. 127
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @zhena gogolia: You read Putin wants to cut off fingers of protestors who refuse being finger-printed?

  128. 128
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    No, I haven’t seen that.

  129. 129
    zhena gogolia says:

    @lamh36:

    He does say that if you listen to the whole thing.

  130. 130
    lamh36 says:

    @justchilln247
    So a white male drives 10 hrs to El Paso, Texas to shoot up a Walmart and he was taken in without the police firing one shot…😡😖. Does anyone understand where I’m going with this? If their was a black man there with a gun, try7ng to save people, guess who would’ve been killed.

  131. 131
    Kay says:

    @lamh36:

    It’s appalling. For Abbott to sit there and accept this ridiculous abject helplessness enrages me. Really? That’s all he can do? Sit there and wring his hands at the sadness of it all? Why do we need him at all if all we can do is pray?

    They’re all talking about the prosecution of the shooter. That’s it? That’s the response? They indict this one, and then the next and the next and the next? We’re supposed to be thankful that there’s still a (somewhat) functioning criminal justice system to deal with the shooters after the fact?

  132. 132
    Redshift says:

    @jl: They were even more blatant than that in Charlottesville. They chanted, “Jews will not replace us.”

  133. 133
    jl says:

    @Redshift: Thanks for jogging my memory. I believe you are correct.

  134. 134
    lamh36 says:

    @Kay:

    @i24NEWS_EN
    22m22 minutes ago
    More
    #BREAKING Police say #ElPaso shooting is investigated as ‘possible hate crime’ as toll rises to 20 dead, 26 wounded

    https://twitter.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1157804434086404097

  135. 135
    Kay says:

    Governor Abbott will “support the victims”. While he pretends the ceiling fell in on them- a giant bolt of lightening, a flash flood. There are no causes of these shootings and absolutely nothing can be done by city, state or the federal government to stop them. They’re a clean up crew. That’s their only role.

  136. 136
    jl says:

    @Kay: It is part of the long standing reactionary program of social engineering to promote learned helplessness. You are helpless because nuts and political extremist walking around with assault rifles is the necessary price of freedom. You are helpless because you should be thankful that you, your family and your friends, were not murdered in mass shooting by a right wing white guy with an assault rifle at your ice-cream social or local chess club meeting, or softball game, or whatever.

    A milder version is the Fox News pundit gasbags nattering about how we should be thankful for whatever we have since prehistoric cavemen and Medieval serfs had it worse, And, well, it would be worse for us if the worthless government were messing it up.

  137. 137
    zhena gogolia says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    He tweeted this:

    Our country is under attack from white nationalist terrorism, inspiring murder on our soil and abetted by weak gun laws. If we are serious about national security, we must summon the courage to name and defeat this evil.

  138. 138
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @zhena gogolia: @zhena gogolia: Think I saw it in a comment at democraticunderground.

  139. 139
    Procopius says:

    @DigitalAmish:

    And if I remember correctly one of the first policy shifts of the Trump Justice Dept. was to de-emphasis that focus.

    The de-emphasis on right wing terrorism was done by the Obama Department of Justice, and was widely reported on at the time. I’m sure Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III took it even further, but the report was first withdrawn and then disavowed under Obama. I think it was withdrawn before Eric Holder was confirmed, but I don’t think he would have done anything to enforce it. Stop blaming everything on Trump. Yes, he’s destroying everything good that he can; yes, he’s a menace to the country, but this bad shit has been growing for decades under both parties.

  140. 140
    jl says:

    @Procopius: IIRC, the commie administration that commissioned the investigation that resulted in the report that said the feds need to watch right wing domestic extremism more carefully was that of one GW Bush. But it was finalized during Obama administration, and GOP cynically said it was a fiendish plot against liberty by the blackity-black usurper.

    I remember the fuss, and was very upset when the Obama administration seemed to fold without a fight. Someone tell me if I am remembering it wrong.

    But, news said Trump tweeted that this was ‘very bad’, so, there’s that.

  141. 141
    HalfAssedHomesteader says:

    @Another Scott: I fear brexit will give a fairly good roadmap for how we’ll handle climate change.

  142. 142
  143. 143
    debbie says:

    @jl:

    I thought it was during the Clinton presidency. Janet Reno got raked over the coals for it, didn’t she?

  144. 144
    dmbeaster says:

    @Elizabelle: With so many and so many sent to various hospitals, it is tough to be certain.

  145. 145
    joel hanes says:

    @Procopius:

    report was first withdrawn and then disavowed under Obama.

    after extreme and unrelenting pressure from right-wingers, aka Republicans

    both parties
    [head -> desk]
    Bless your heart.

  146. 146
    jl says:

    @debbie: I think that may have been a previous attempt at due diligence and responsible governance. As a commenter said, the problem of domestic reactionary white supremacist terrorism has been developing for decades. I remember reading that the specific report and proposal that caused the uproar during the Obama administration was a GW Bush administration initiative. Some kind commenter please correct me if I’m wrong.

    Edit: I guess if you go back to pre Civil Rights Act days, the problem of domestic white supremacist terrorism never really went away. Maybe another way to look at it. Just, the groups targeted have widened greatly.

  147. 147
    Kay says:

    @jl:

    “This tragedy struck”. We’ll call the shooters “tragedy” or “chaos” or “mayhem”. Rename them. Use language to convince everyone that nothing can be done.

  148. 148
    Kattails says:

    At what time am I allowed to note that, aside from any manifestos, any anger management issues, any mental health issues, the thing that every goddamned one of these shooters has is that it’s a male? We can guess at white, or gun nut, or whatever, but the very first thing I can pretty much guarantee is that it is a male. Women make less money, get less respect on the whole, have to deal with groping and the entire fucking range of crap that we’ve finally been dragging into the light over the last few years. The idea that we are not seething with rage is ridiculous. Yet we have not taken to blasting away at the generic population as an answer to our grievances. And I really deeply feel that you men need to answer this. And I don’t want to hear about it’s only being a few and I-would-never. I want the male portion of society to answer for itself and have this dialogue. I’ve had a hot sweaty day with a fender bender in the middle, took a nap and came online to find this ghastly, familiar news. I did not grow up with this shit.
    I like this website, have great respect for the commenters, love my male friends, but I honestly don’t see how women can fix this, it is NOT coming from us. Fucking hell. I just need a shower and some food.

  149. 149
    Bill Arnold says:

    @jl:

    If so, thanks for posting the statement.

    That’s just part of it (it’s 4 pages). If you’re curious, get and deep-read a copy (probably still can find by searching on that text, quoted, or ask here), but don’t read it unless you are quite resistant to emotional manipulation and intellectually weak arguments.
    My impression, FWIW, from a second reading is that this was not a “lone wolf”, that the guy was encouraged/manipulated into his belief system. I’ll assume people are looking hard at his on-line history and interactions. As Adam says, deeply anti-corporate and also environmentalist. I’ll add, a weird belief that somehow shooting non-whites will fix this, better than direct action against evil corporations and their owners, and/or against those who are causing environmental damage, aquifer depletion was the main concern in this case.

  150. 150
    low-tech cyclist says:

    NRA Celebrates “Highly Successful Year” in Texas

    Congratulations, motherfuckers. You just added to your winning streak.

  151. 151
    Aleta says:

    @Kay: I’m inclined to call him the ter- orist instead of the shooter. And, in the same way that terms like female bomber, women ter- orists, Muslim ter -orist, Palestinian ter-orists are used and accepted as clarifying, he can be referred to as the white male terrorist.

  152. 152
    lamh36 says:

    THIS is what it means to name and call our evil!

    Thank u Beto!!

    Asked about President Trump’s rhetoric in relation to the El Paso mass shooting attack, El Pasoan and Democratic presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke says, “Yes … he is a racist, and he stokes racism in this country … and it leads to violence.”

    https://twitter.com/msnbc/status/1157835736688861185?s=21

  153. 153
    Another Scott says:

    @Kattails: Well said.

    Someone important agrees with you: Twitter:

    God @TheTweetOfGod

    America has to stop letting young white men into the country.

    4:20 PM – 3 Aug 2019

    :-/

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  154. 154
    tobie says:

    @lamh36: I’m so in the tank for Beto that I doubt my words carry much weight but I’ve always really liked that when it comes to racism he doesn’t mince his words and calls a spade a spade.

    I think the thing that hit me hardest today is that it was a tax-free shopping day so families could buy all the things they need for back to school. So many of these people went shopping thinking their kid would have a long and happy future. That’s just heartbreaking.

  155. 155
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Wajahat Ali @ WajahatAli
    Muslim Americans have been asked for 18 years to denounce violent Muslim extremism done by terrorists we’ve never met. Our loyalty and patriotism is interrogated, questioned & treated as suspect. So, what do we say to those who enable and promote a white nationalist ideology?

  156. 156
    Mart says:

    @Harbison:

    Why can’t we go back to the good old days 40 or 50 years ago when this country was so much safer?

    Mother Jones’ Kevin Drum has made a compelling case for causation of violent crime and exposure to lead/leaded gas. Correlates well with your referenced murder rate spike.

  157. 157
    trnc says:

    @Jay:

    Since the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting, today marks the 2,187th mass shooting reported. #ElPaso pic.twitter.com/UNRoh0QBCn— Disaster Alert ⚠ (@DisasterAlert19) August 3, 2019

    NPR did a segment on assault weapons a few days ago and said statistics on mass shootings were difficult to find because there were so few of them. Makes sense, you know – it took me at least 30 seconds to find this site:
    https://massshootingtracker.org/data

    Between segments like that and the weekly+ broadcast of DT supporters, It’s extremely sad that the question “stupid or evil” has to apply to the news arm of the same org that produces “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me.”

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