Congrats, UK, You Morons

*sigh*

I often think about how in 2016, when almost anyone who mattered was dying (Prince, Bowie, Carrie Fisher, Alan Rickman, I kept thinking “Man this is the worst year ever.”






155 replies
  1. 1
    Elizabelle says:

    May the Tories get what they deserve.

  2. 2
    mozzerb says:

    The way things are shaping up at the moment, Johnson might set a record for the shortest premiership ever.

    It says something when Jeremy “Services To Rhyming Slang” Hunt was the better candidate.

  3. 3
    Ohio Mom says:

    I think back to when Ohio Son was a toddler and I-forget-his -name declared it was “the end of history”
    because peace and democracy were breaking out all over. I thought to myself, History will be back and it will bite us in the ass.

    But I was not imagining the teeth marks could be this deep.

  4. 4
    Elizabelle says:

    We really, really have to figure out a way to take Rupert Murdoch and media empires like his that peddle lies out of the mix.

    It’s not First Amendment free speech. It is propaganda and calculated undermining of democracy.

  5. 5
    chopper says:

    its nice to be able to point to *someone else’s* leader and laugh for a change. so thanks for that, uk.

  6. 6
    fedupwithhypocrisy says:

    and Guy Clark, and Merle Haggard, and then the election, aiee

  7. 7
    Alain says:

    @chopper: he’s such a tosser.

  8. 8
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Ohio Mom: Francis Fukuyama.

  9. 9
    Mike in NC says:

    We fly to London on Saturday for a 15 day cruise of the UK. If anybody raises the subject of imbecile “leaders”, I’ll say most of us here would happily trade Trump for Boris, and maybe sweeten the deal by throwing in Florida (everybody we know who lives there hates it and can’t wait to move someplace else).

  10. 10

    You forgot to throw in It Can’t Happen Here by Sinclair Lewis.

    If there is any bright side to this, Boris is likely going to push No-Deal early, forcing the moderate Tories to quit the party and have them lose majority control of Parliament.

    I seriously want Lib Dems to win the next general election. Fuck both Tories AND Labour (fence-sitting wafflers who can’t decide between Remain or ‘Soft Brexit,’ the cowards).

  11. 11
    Brachiator says:

    I’m already having waking nightmares imagining Johnson and Trump standing next to each other.

  12. 12
    ruemara says:

    I simply cannot FATHOM what in the fuck the Tories were thinking, voting for Boris. And what Paul said. Labour should’ve just said Remain, but Jeremy FUCKING BERNIE Hunt exists. Feckless morons.

  13. 13
    Elizabelle says:

    @ruemara: Corbyn, not Hunt, I think. But yeah — what a wanker.

  14. 14
    Citizen Alan says:

    I often think about how in 2016, when almost anyone who mattered was dying (Prince, Bowie, Carrie Fisher, Alan Rickman, I kept thinking “Man this is the worst year ever.”

    By 2017, I was thinking “Soon, the living will envy the dead.”

  15. 15
    plato says:

    #BorisJohnsonAmerican English vs British English personified pic.twitter.com/NLoJI3ZSSx— Saniya (@touche_always) July 23, 2019

  16. 16
    Ksmiami says:

    @Elizabelle: burn it down.

  17. 17
    R-Jud says:

    It is as if the Tory party’s voters said: “What if Trump, but he speaks Latin?”
    It’s a great day to pay taxes to both the US and the UK, for sure. And by “great” I mean “unfuckingbelievably horrible”.

  18. 18
    rikyrah says:

    Absolutely pathetic 😠 😠

  19. 19
    EmbraceYourInnerCrone says:

    @PaulWartenberg – Would love to see the moderate Tories quit the party so the Tories lose control of Parliament…the question is will enough of them choose to do that for the good of the country or will they prefer to go down with the ship… I don’t understand UK politics well enough to guess.

  20. 20
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Elizabelle & @ruemara: I don’t know squat about UK politics, but from what I’ve read (including via esteemed BJ foreign correspondent Tony Jay), Corbyn isn’t the problem and perhaps doesn’t merit the insult of being compared to Sanders.

  21. 21
    Elizabelle says:

    @Elizabelle: The word I was going for was “destabilizing.” (No coffee yet!)

  22. 22
    Chyron HR says:

    Man, it sure is weird how the USA, the UK, Canada and Australia have all pulled this shit over the span of a few years. It’s almost like there’s a massive worldwide swing towards white nationalism that we need to be concerned about–but no, Bernie teaches us that it’s actually just the non-deplorable economic anxiety of the noble white working class, who yearn for single-payer health care (even in the countries that already had single-payer health care).

  23. 23
    Barbara says:

    @Betty Cracker: From what I can tell, his main problem is that when pressed, he is too quick to take refuge in “leading by following,” and saying that his position is strictly according to party lines. Although Labor voters are strongly pro-remain, there is a significant percentage that are strongly pro-Brexit. Corbyn keeps trying to thread the needle so that he no one is disappointed, which usually means that everyone is disappointed, and in this, case no one really knows what would happen were Labor to gain power. Which is why they are not gaining even as Tories are flailing.

  24. 24
    Wapiti says:

    I’m probably off base here, but it looks like the UK is having its 1965 moment. Both major parties’ constituencies are intermixed with some large fraction of racists, and the country is facing a decision with racial connotations.

    In 10 years or less, I’d expect a realignment of parties along “racists” and “not-totally racist” lines. (Yes, Virginia, there are still racists within the Democratic Party.)

  25. 25
    ruemara says:

    @Barbara: basically.

    @Betty Cracker: At this point, I’m for tossing any of them into a woodchipper and fertilizing some old growth forest with them, since they have no other earthly use.

  26. 26
    Elizabelle says:

    @Betty Cracker: If someone had said “Bernie Sanders, the White House press secretary …”

    Agree with you that Corbyn deserves more straightforward reporting. It’s appalling the double standard the press in the UK and US employs in covering conservatives vs. liberals. (Frankly, conservatives vs. anything else on the spectrum.)

    And easy to present Nicola Sturgeon as a champion (albeit, she is!) because she has the luxury of well-stated principles and goals.

    Tony Jay has been informative on the squishes on Brexit that pollute the Labour party too.

  27. 27
    Brachiator says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    I seriously want Lib Dems to win the next general election. Fuck both Tories AND Labour (fence-sitting wafflers who can’t decide between Remain or ‘Soft Brexit,’ the cowards).

    Well, the opposition to the Tories is definitely shaping up with Monday’s election of a new Liberal Democrat Party leader. From the BBC.

    Jo Swinson has become the first female Liberal Democrat leader, after decisively beating Sir Ed Davey in a poll of party members.

    She won 47,997 votes, against her opponent’s 28,021.

    The 39-year old, who succeeds Sir Vince Cable, said she was “over the moon” to have been elected and was “ready for the fight of our lives”.

    She told activists the UK’s future lay in the European Union and she would do “whatever it takes to stop Brexit”.

    As well as being the first woman to take charge of the party, Ms Swinson is also its youngest ever leader.

    Describing Boris Johnson, the frontrunner in the contest to be the next Conservative leader, as “unfit to be prime minister”, she said her party was ready to return to government.

    “I stand before you today not just as leader of the Lib Dems, but as a candidate to be prime minister. There is no limit for my ambition for our party, our movement and our country.

    “I am ready to take my party into a general election and win it.”

    We will see if an energized Lib Dem party can shake things up.

  28. 28
    different-church-lady says:

    @Brachiator: First meeting of leaders in the democracy era to end in a slap fight?

  29. 29
    rp says:

    @Barbara: Agreed. Labour is falling apart, and Corbyn deserves a significant chunk of the blame. If he had come out as strongly anti-Brexit before the vote in June 2016, there’s a good chance it wouldn’t have passed, and he would have been in a strong position to form the next government. Instead, he tried to thread the needle.

    I also think the comparison to Sanders is fair; from what I can tell, he didn’t take a stronger anti-Brexit position because he has many of the same isolationist, let’s return to the 1950’s, anti-free trade views.

  30. 30
    BC in Illinois says:

    And (reposting from the thread below) the view from Scotland:

    The Scottish National Party is announcing B Johnson’s selection.

    … committed to dragging Scotland out of Europe against our will, even without a deal.
    … now, our NHS is under threat from a Tory-Trump trade deal. [Scary picture of Trump:] “Everything is on the table, so NHS or anything else.”
    … His tenure at the Foreign Office made the UK an international embarrassment. [Picture of John Kerry grimacing at something Johnson said.] And he made a raft of homophobic, xenophobic, and outright racist comments.
    … He said that Scottish funding was a gift from English taxpayers and that a Scot shouldn’t be allowed to become Prime Minister. Now he plans to make Scottish taxpayers pay for tax cuts for high earners in England. And he’s trying to block Scotland’s democratic rights by denying us a choice on our future.

    Voters have consistently given the SNP a mandate to deliver a referendum on Scotland’s future. That mandate has been reinforced through three consecutive elections. But it’s not just the SNP. The Scottish Parliament has also agreed to deliver a referendum on Scottish independence.
    … Boris Johnson has no mandate to govern Scotland. He does not speak for us. Now we must decide. Do we want Scotland’s future in Scotland’s hands, or in those of Boris Johnson?

    It’s time for independence. Pledge your support at www . yes . scot

    It’s interesting to see how the scary image of Trump can be used by people elsewhere as a warning.

  31. 31
    MattF says:

    @Brachiator: Ah, ‘unfit’. Good word, useful in our hour of need.

  32. 32
    Alien Radio says:

    If it makes you feel any better,I made a bet for 20 quid that Boris will be the shortest serving Prime Minister ever. I’ll probably only get 20 out of that, so I’m going to a bookies to see if I can get better odds. It’s free money.

  33. 33
    Tony Jay says:

    @Barbara:

    Sigh. Once again.

    Labour’s official position on Brexit

    “The Labour Party should confirm that whatever deal is negotiated by the new Tory Prime Minister or an exit based on no deal should be put to the people in a public confirmatory vote. The options must be:”

    1. Accepting the deal or a Tory no-deal in the knowledge of its terms

    2. Remaining in the European Union.

    In this event, the Labour Party should campaign to remain in the European Union.

    “In the event that a General Election is called, Labour’s manifesto position should be:

    “Negotiating with the European Union to respect the Brexit vote outlined from 2016, reflecting the negotiating priorities that Labour has outlined”

    Any final Labour deal should then be put back to the people.

    The options on the ballot paper should be:

    1.Accepting the Labour negotiated deal

    2.Remaining in the European Union

    The Labour Party’s campaign position on such a ballot should depend on the deal negotiated.

    That’s Labour’s official position. Other than chanting “Bollocks to Brexit!” and “Vote Labour, Get Brexit!” and maybe wishing on a star, what is the Liberal Democrat policy that stands any kind of chance of actually stopping Brexit from happening?

    I’ll give you a clue. There isn’t one. It’s just purity posing and electioneering by a Party that had its chance in Government and enabled the Tory policies that gave us Austerity and the Referendum result. Four years later they think they can be washed clean in the blood of Remainer Jeebus, but that’s just another fairytale.

    And the same goes for the ‘Say Anything, Play the Victim’ caucus within Labour, but moreso, because they’re trying to enable Brexit from within.

    That’s it, where’s the crack? I’m in major need of a rock or ten./s

  34. 34
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    @Elizabelle:

    It is propaganda and calculated undermining of democracy.

    For a price, Ugarte, for a price.

    Never forget WHY they undermine democracy and make the world a more hideous place: That second/third/twelfth home in the Hamptons/Vail/Monaco/Etc.

  35. 35
    Hoodie says:

    @rp: Brockington over at LGM has some posts illuminating the cult of personality surrounding Corbyn in Labour. A lot of the actions of his faction of Labour seem to be motivated by animus toward Blairites and anything perceived as associated with Blair (e.g., the EU), irrespective of the merits of the particular issue. Because of the nature of the party organizations in the UK, this faction has outsized effects on Labour policy.

  36. 36
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Yes, thanks!

  37. 37
    Alien Radio says:

    @Tony Jay: Thank you, You and I are on the same page Re: Corbyn and Brexit, I think he’s played a blinder given an extremely hostile media environment.

  38. 38
    ruemara says:

    @Hoodie: I know I”m asking for a lot, but could people over there & over here stop acting like this is global larping of Mean Girls and take a look at what’s happening in the world and vote accordingly? Christ.

  39. 39
    Ruckus says:

    @Chyron HR:
    You think that there might be another reason for the swing to white nationalism? Like some news organization that spreads the word that whiteness counts. That word is that every shade of pale is the right shade, that any shade darker than pale is an abomination. Fucking wanker. (not you, that wanker that spreads that shit)

  40. 40
    MattF says:

    @Hoodie: Seems that both right and left splinters in the UK have figured out how to game their internal party politics.

  41. 41
    Tony Jay says:

    @Alien Radio:

    I sent a possible Guest Post to Anne-Laurie last week delving into the anti-Semitism smears being deployed against Corbyn and his supporters from inside and outside Labour. If you think I’m being a bit hot under the collar about Brexit…. (wanders off, hands in pocket, whistling)

  42. 42
    trollhattan says:

    I don’t want to see any Boris J references that do not include this.

  43. 43
    rp says:

    @Hoodie: Same as the Bernie fanatics here droning on endlessly about “neoliberals.”

  44. 44
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Mike in NC: Give the tossers Sarah Palin too!

  45. 45
    VOR says:

    @Brachiator: Boris Johnson was born in the US and hence is eligible to be President of the United States. That will keep you up at night.

  46. 46
    Brachiator says:

    @Elizabelle:

    It’s appalling the double standard the press in the UK and US employs in covering conservatives vs. liberals.

    The UK press is more starkly and openly partisan than US media. They also seem to have a long tradition of being gleefully nasty and underhanded. Loyal readers of the Daily Mail expect, and get, regular doses of anti-Corbyn screed. The establishment Times recently printed noxious crap allegedly from senior civil servants suggesting that Corbyn was too fragile and ill to be Labour leader.

    But even supposedly “neutral” and “fair” media such as the BBC often lines up against Corbyn and the worst of media coverage is more relentless and biased than the anti-Hillary coverage here.

  47. 47
    Ruckus says:

    @Tony Jay:
    Are people (or more importantly the politicians) looking to move the UK back to it’s former glory of the 16th century? Because I’m at a loss to see any other reason for this. Do they not see that the world has changed, even if they can’t comprehend it? I mean we have the same problem but we at least have the power to screw, at least a bit, everyone who thinks we are nuts. The UK has what chance of that? Minus 10?

  48. 48
    Alien Radio says:

    @Tony Jay: Rmember the Czech Spy, smear? It suddenly looks like projection now Ghislaine Maxwell is finding her name bandied about again. The worst part of it is that when all this shakes out (If my Reading of Silverman is correct) there will be an extreme risk for Jewish people who are not involved in what appears to be an Israeli Intelligence/Russian Mafia Operation. I think Corbyn’s launch of tools for Identifying antisemitism will come in useful.

  49. 49
    The Moar You Know says:

    I was listening to BBC World Service this morning and the “never-no-dealers” are caving just as fast as the Never Trumpers here did. Which I expected.

  50. 50
    Steeplejack says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Good and hard.

  51. 51
    Brachiator says:

    @VOR:

    Boris Johnson was born in the US and hence is eligible to be President of the United States. That will keep you up at night.

    Oh, shit…

  52. 52
    Alien Radio says:

    @Ruckus: They’re Trying to Turn Britain into Offshore-1 (Like Airstrip 1 but for money laundering). Money Laundering is already one of the biggest industries in the country, it’s just that a bunch of toffs are okay with turning the rest of the country into a blasted heath, while London continues to launder money for Kleptokrats, Drug Barons, Arms Dealers, and the Aristocacy.

  53. 53
    Duane says:

    @Tony Jay: Referring to Brexit Johnson says, “do or die.” Nice PM you got there. Such a reasonable leader, what could go wrong.

  54. 54
    gvg says:

    I tentatively have the impression that the electorate of both main parties have about 1/2 their voters who are anti immigration/”foreigners”/isolationists. It looks to me like its sort of like just before a realignment of voting blocks. Maybe sort of like just before the democrats went civil rights and the republicans choosing the southern strategy, where the Republicans had been the party of Lincoln and the Democrats had been the anti Lincoln republicans. I am guessing both British parties are hesitating about triggering a realignment because they can’t be sure they will end up with as many supporters. I also don’t know how the other issues that make them labor and tories plays into the Brexit issue.

  55. 55
    trollhattan says:

    @VOR:

    Boris Johnson was born in the US and hence is eligible to be President of the United States. That will keep you up at night.

    Now doesn’t that just shave the cat’s ass?

  56. 56
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @trollhattan: Glad we can depend on you still shaving cats’ asses in these batshit-crazy times.

  57. 57
    The Moar You Know says:

    Boris Johnson was born in the US and hence is eligible to be President of the United States. That will keep you up at night.

    @VOR: Pffft. We have just the people for this job: Orly Taitz, Larry Sinclair, Roseanne Barr and our current hairpiece of a president. They’ll have Boris claiming he was born in Russia by the time they’ve finished with him.

    We can call them “the thin dumb line”.

  58. 58
    germy says:

    @Chyron HR:

    it sure is weird how the USA, the UK, Canada and Australia have all pulled this shit over the span of a few years.

    Rupert Murdoch.

  59. 59
    azlib says:

    We can hardly throw stones at the Brits given we have Trump. I am curious what will happen at the Irish Border now if there is a hard Brexit? And I doubt if Scotland is very happy about this development.

  60. 60
    kindness says:

    The thing that I find most shocking about the UK continuing to go with the Tory/Conservative government and continue to try to implement Brexit. Yea I get that Brexit was popularly elected several years back but it sure looks like people would vote against it if they had the chance. And that is where I get confused. Why are they continuing down this path? Then I think about us here in the US and Trump.

    Damn I wish we had do overs.

  61. 61
    Tony Jay says:

    @Ruckus:

    Are people (or more importantly the politicians) looking to move the UK back to it’s former glory of the 16th century? Because I’m at a loss to see any other reason for this.

    Honestly? A broken Media accounts for a lot of it. Murdoch has done the same job over here that he’s done in the US and Australia, spreading propaganda and fostering division under cover of ‘Infotainment’. Plus the body-blows of Iraq and the Credit Crash followed by Austerity and the Expenses scandals, faith in the political class took a huge knock, trust was low and fear and frustration were high.

    I’m pretty much certain that a good half of the Leave vote (at least) was people lashing out at ‘The Establishment’ for how badly the country has been screwed by Right Wing ideology and the Brextemists know it, which is why they’ve dedicated so much time and effort to blocking any kind of democratic check on the country’s opinion. They know that in a rerun they wouldn’t just lose, they’d lose massively.

    Roll on the Election.

  62. 62
    Penn Davies says:

    @kindness: As far as I can tell this is like Republicans implementing broadly unpopular agendas because they’ll be primaried out if they don’t. It just has to be popular with their base.

  63. 63
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Hard BREXIT, here we come. Putin must be so pleased. Destroying the west is working out so well.

  64. 64
    Hoodie says:

    @kindness: Barely popularly elected. A do over would just compound the original sin of that idiot Cameron agreeing to decide an issue like this by plebiscite. It’s governing by bumper sticker.

  65. 65
    Lynno says:

    When Boris messes up and he will mess up. London will look like Puerto Rico except there will be millions not hundreds of thousands in the streets.

  66. 66
    Tony Jay says:

    @Alien Radio:

    I do. The Jewish Leadership Council, the Board of Jewish Deputies, the Jewish Labour Movement and Labour Friends of Israel do not come out of my rant gleaming with the honeydew of innocence, put it that way.

  67. 67
    VOR says:

    @kindness: Two things I remember about the media immediately post-Brexit vote. First, people on the street expressing surprise that Brexit won, since they had voted for it as a joke. Second, Nigel Farage on TV claiming he had nothing to do with the claim that Brexit meant more funding for the NHS, all he did was stand in front of a bus, very sorry anyone mis-interpreted that. https://youtu.be/cA3XTYfzd1I

  68. 68
    Tony Jay says:

    @Duane:

    Such a reasonable leader, what could go wrong.

    Watson! Fetch me my Special Box and a towel for the chaisse lounge, this is most definitely a three rock problem.”

  69. 69
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Hoodie: @kindness: A do-over would also require Leave voters to admit they shot themselves in the foot.

  70. 70
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Ghost of Stalin “Look Boris, I killed all Kulaks because they were petite-bourgeois and I am a communist, not because it was the awesome. and it got a laugh.You’re doing it wrong”

  71. 71
    mrmoshpotato says:

    imagine looking at America's racist moron president in his shitty shapeless suit with that fucked up tangle of yellow bullshit on top of his big dumb pumpkin head, yammering incoherently like a low-wattage imbecile and thinking "oh yeah, my country should have one of these, too"— Jeff Tiedrich (@itsJeffTiedrich) July 23, 2019

  72. 72
    Another Scott says:

    @Chyron HR: I blame Australia. Er, Murdoch.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  73. 73
    rp says:

    @Hoodie: Corbyn (and others) should have come out strongly in favor of a new Brexit vote a long time ago. There’s ample evidence that it was tainted by Russia, lies, etc. Not to mention the fact that many people didn’t seem to take the vote very seriously. The idea that they need to respect the will of the voters based on the Brexit result is laughable.

  74. 74
    ruemara says:

    @VOR: Yep. Much like those here who voted Trump for a laugh.

  75. 75
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Alien Radio:

    played a blinder

    I had to get that translated into English

  76. 76
    rp says:

    @Hoodie: Just to clarify — I agree wholeheartedly that the original vote was beyond idiotic and that an issue like this shouldn’t be decided by plebiscite, but a new vote would be far better than relying on the existing one IMO.

  77. 77
    burnspbesq says:

    The likelihood of Irish reunification in our lifetime just went up. Maybe not dramatically, but noticeably.

  78. 78
    Tony Jay says:

    @rp:

    I’ll just repost my response to this tosh from the previous thread.

    Oh bullshit. He backed Remain, he explained his reasoning honestly and he delivered the vast majority of Labour votes for the Remain side. Meanwhile the Austerity Twins refused to let the EU defend itself, treated the Referendum like an internal Tory Party debate and ran away as soon as their shitty campaign lost the argument The ‘Blame Corbyn’ din that started immediately afterwards was just the usual claptrap and as boringly predictable as a Panorama ‘exposé’.

    I swear to God it’s like people don’t even listen to Ryan Reynolds. ‘Green Lantern‘ was a pile of badly written shit, not a fucking How-To documentary.

  79. 79
    Barbara says:

    @Tony Jay: I appreciate your clarification, however, let me state: that is pretty much what I said. It’s complicated and tries to thread the Labour Party needle in ways that can easily be distorted by those who will for all kinds of reasons. It would be possible and really so much easier to say:

    Our position is to remain in the EU in the absence of a definitive deal that would offer the extremely unlikely option of a deal that is better than the one we have now. Then we would agree to a second referendum.

    And at the outset, yes, I believe Labour was remiss not to be even stronger in urging voters to vote to remain unless and until there was a specific package on the table. I realize that they supported remain, but they didn’t necessarily emphasize that this was what we call a pig in a poke, that voters were really voting for a situation in which TORIES HOLD ALL THE FUCKING CARDS WHEN IT COMES TO NEGOTIATING A DEAL. Except the cards that mattered — that is, the ones held by the EU.

    Yes, it requires a bit of strategic imagination but I feel that the head of a political party should have at least as much foresight as a beginning chess player.

  80. 80
    rp says:

    @Tony Jay: This is like saying Sanders backed Clinton in the general election. I’m not placing all or even most of the blame for Brexit on Corbyn — obviously Farange and Cameron and Johnson and other a-holes are 95% responsible — but he hasn’t handled this well from the beginning. And there’s no inconsistency in saying that he’s been treated unfairly by the press and done a lousy job.

  81. 81
    p.a. says:

    I grimly like the “Why should the US have all the fun?” tweet-comment.

  82. 82
    germy says:

    Boris Johnson sounds like a name Trump would give his penis.

    — The Volatile Mermaid (@OhNoSheTwitnt) July 23, 2019

  83. 83
    Searcher says:

    @VOR:

    Boris Johnson was born in the US and hence is eligible to be President of the United States. That will keep you up at night.

    As near as I can tell from his Wikipedia page, he only spent a negligible amount of time in the US as an infant, so he is still lacking the “fourteen Years a Resident” qualification. The soonest we have to worry about a Boris Johnson Presidency is 2036, assuming he takes up residency in the US before 2022.

  84. 84
    Origuy says:

    Boris could only be President of the US after he has been a resident of the US for fourteen years. Watch out if he moves here.

  85. 85
    Matt says:

    @Barbara:

    he is too quick to take refuge in “leading by following,” and saying that his position is strictly according to party lines

    Ah yes, the Pelosi gambit.

  86. 86
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Tony Jay: I wonder sometimes if Corbyn gets conflated with Sanders because they’re both older, white-haired guys associated with the left? Nah, too superficial. Maybe it’s because both operate as if they function within a parliamentary system. But one of them actually does!

  87. 87
    The Lodger says:

    @Tony Jay: Never mind them, what about the Judean People’s Front and the People’s Front of Judea?

  88. 88
    EthylEster says:

    @PaulWartenberg wrote:

    …forcing the moderate Tories to quit the party and have them lose majority control of Parliament.

    You are assuming that there are Tories with Principles.
    Aren’t moderate Tories like moderate Republicans?
    That is, extinct because they abandoned moderation when given the chance.

  89. 89
    rp says:

    @Barbara: Agree 100% with all of that. Labour should have been saying “ARE YOU INSANE? THIS IS BEYOND IDIOTIC” from the very beginning instead treating it like a somewhat normal political issue.

  90. 90
    oatler. says:

    @The Lodger: Splitters!
    Good bye NHS.

  91. 91
    trollhattan says:

    I’d like to know how they delivered the documentary footage cleverly packaged as “Years and Years” to our time from the future.

  92. 92
    plato says:

    @EthylEster: Unlike the goose stepin’ rethugs, conservative party still has enough moderates, who have defied and continue to defy the fringe loons. They were the main reason May could’t make brexshit happen in the last two years.

  93. 93
    Betty Cracker says:

    @trollhattan: I had a similar thought when I read the news this morning.

  94. 94
    Brachiator says:

    @Tony Jay:

    I swear to God it’s like people don’t even listen to Ryan Reynolds. ‘Green Lantern‘ was a pile of badly written shit, not a fucking How-To documentary.

    Great analogy, in an unexpected way. Nobody except the most OCD comic book nerd gives a shit about the Green Lantern movie. And no one, not even political junkies, gives a shit about Corbyn’s past position on BREXIT.

    Even though there is a new player on the board with the despicable Boris Johnson, not much else has changed.

    There is no deal except for what May negotiated with the EU. MPs say they won’t allow a no deal BREXIT, but this is pretty goddam hollow. There ain’t no time for anyone to negotiate a new deal, and there is even less than a sign that the EU would give a damn, especially with Night Monkey Farage flinging shit inside the EU, alienating everyone.

    The UK is not prepared for a no deal BREXIT, even if Johnson could engineer it.

    Everyone pretends that Thanos snapped Ireland out of existence.

    So the race is on, I guess, to get a no confidence vote? Does this need to be before October 31?

    Then, what general election along with an extension of time to leave the EU?

    And then Labour has got to win the election or enough votes to be able to form a government.

    And then, whatever Corbyn might want becomes relevant.

  95. 95
    greenergood says:

    @Mike in NC: Are you docking in Greenock? if yes, tell me the name of your boat and I’ll wave at you from across the river! ;-)

  96. 96
    sherparick says:

    @Elizabelle: The Venn Diagram left out 1984 and “V for Vendetta”

  97. 97
    Danielx says:

    @VOR:

    a truly appalling thought

  98. 98
    plato says:

    FBI Director Wray: "A majority of the domestic terrorism cases we've investigated are motivated by some version of what you might call white supremacist violence." pic.twitter.com/AEOjYfReGP— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 23, 2019

    3,2,1 .. exit wray on the left.

  99. 99
    trollhattan says:

    @plato:
    Oh merde, doesn’t he know he’s not supposed to say the quiet bits out loud?

  100. 100
    plato says:

    @trollhattan: Liked this reply tweet. So true.

    pic.twitter.com/d3ItuJvy8s— Impeach trump now (@leftcoastlefty5) July 23, 2019

  101. 101
    Elizabelle says:

    Two of the “leading democracies” (according to legend, anyway) have cartoon supervillains as “elected” leaders. Where is Lex Luthor?

    Andy Borowitz, satirist:

    Queen Elizabeth Moving to Canada

    In a sign that the Queen’s decision is irrevocable, the palace revealed that her beloved corgis had already been flown to Toronto.

    I would bet QE2 had an extra Dubonnet with gin before lunch today, and is getting a headache from shaking her head so fiercely.

  102. 102
    SRW1 says:

    @VOR:

    Boris Johnson was born in the US and hence is eligible to be President of the United States.

    While he was born in the US, the good Mr de Peffle Johnson renounced his US citizenship in 2017. So that nightmare is kind of mute.

  103. 103
    Leto says:

    @Elizabelle:

    Where is Lex Luthor?

    In the DC Universe, Lex was President. Rampant criminality ensued, so I’d say we’re already there. Again, comic book writers were way ahead of us on this. A morally corrupt businessman… sure, why not? =|

  104. 104
    Southern Goth says:

    @SRW1:

    A mute nightmare with clowns. The worst.

  105. 105
    Ruckus says:

    @Tony Jay:
    So all they have left is bullshit and bluster, just like our bullshit and bluster party.
    Its how they can elect Trump here, they’ve got nothing, of course that’s what they wanted all along. Government gets in their way of stealing everything, so they don’t see the point of it.

  106. 106
    SRW1 says:

    @SRW1:

    Just to add some meat to the bone: When he was still a US citizen, Mr de Pfeffle Johnson was obliged to pay US taxes. So when he sold a house in the UK in 2015 at a considerable profit, he was hit with request by uncle Sam to cough up some capital gains tax, which he found absolutely outrageous.

  107. 107
    MattF says:

    @Leto: Marvel universe too. I was recently leafing through a ‘Howard the Duck’ collection— Howard was getting reassurance that he hadn’t been transported to a bad parallel universe:

    Howard: Who’s the president?
    Howard’s Pal: Donald Trump. Just kidding!

  108. 108
    Steeplejack says:

    @SRW1:

    Moot. Autocorrect is of the devil.

  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    If he had come out as strongly anti-Brexit before the vote in June 2016, there’s a good chance it wouldn’t have passed, and he would have been in a strong position to form the next government.

    Oh for fuck’s sake. Tony Jay already called you out on this complete nonsense and here you are in another thread repeating it like a blind zombie.

    Corbyn DID campaign for remain, Labour as a party delivered a majority of their votes for remain. IT WASN”T ENOUGH BECAUSE TORIES VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY FOR BREXIT.

    At least read up on the subject if you want to discuss it.

  110. 110
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator:

    We will see if an energized Lib Dem party can shake things up.

    Their newly elected leader, per Tony Jay, is a fuckwit who voted in support of Tories during their coalition and apparently a fan of conservative leadership.

    So yeah. the Lib-Dems are the Bernie Sanders party of the UK now. All noise and no fucking idea to be actually useful.

  111. 111
    TenguPhule says:

    @kindness:

    Yea I get that Brexit was popularly elected several years back but it sure looks like people would vote against it if they had the chance. And that is where I get confused. Why are they continuing down this path?

    The distribution of Leave and Remain votes over the various British counties means that the biggest supporters of remain tend to have higher population density, so even if more people are for remain, there aren’t spread out well enough to have a clear advantage when it comes to electing enough MPs to not commit national suicide.

  112. 112
    catclub says:

    @Tony Jay:

    They know that in a rerun they wouldn’t just lose, they’d lose massively.

    This I do not see. I think remain would win on a re-vote, but would it take 60%? At best I would guess 54%, so the nation is still just about split down the middle.

    Trump may lose in 2020, but he will still carry the same 46% of the vote, not 35%.

  113. 113
    TenguPhule says:

    @Hoodie:

    A lot of the actions of his faction of Labour seem to be motivated by animus toward Blairites

    You are aware that the “Blairites” have attempted at least two party uprisings to unseat Corbyn, always at the worst possible moments when Labour polls were starting to go back up and resulted in complete chaos which then sent the media in a tizzy about “Labour in Disarray!”. And the unrepentant assholes then turn right around and blame Corbyn for those same bad poll numbers?

  114. 114
    sdhays says:

    @VOR: I’m going to need to see his long-form birth certificate. And proof that he or his friends or family haven’t traveled back in time to plant evidence.

  115. 115
    sdhays says:

    @TenguPhule: Not to mention, Corbyn came to power due to the utter failure of the post-Blair leadership to win winnable elections. Allowing the Tories to get away with a double dip recession, for example, deserved a strong reaction.

  116. 116
    Carolina Dave says:

    @Mike in NC: I hope that’s not your opening offer. Swap Trump for Boris and the US gets Scotland. NC is full of Scotch-Irish don’t you know.

  117. 117
    catclub says:

    I am confused about the Liberal democrats, when I see this they seem pretty good:

    Media caption: New Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson: “I will do whatever it takes to stop Brexit.” Jo Swinson has become the first female Liberal Democrat leader, after decisively beating Sir Ed Davey in a poll of party members. She won 47,997 votes, against her opponent’s

  118. 118
    TenguPhule says:

    @sdhays: I know. Its maddening, He was the only person to win because was not a fucking idiot like the rest of the Labour leadership candidates, he’s held his party together through years of serious muck being thrown at him from a media that was literally proven to be biased as fuck against him and now when Labour finally looks like its on the brink of coming back into power after all his hard work….he still gets no credit for his hard work and planning by the majority of people.

    And unlike Pelosi, he really doesn’t have any real political power in the official government.

  119. 119
    TenguPhule says:

    @catclub: She’s one of the Lib-Dems that was part of the Tory Coalition and is a fan of Thatcher. Yes, that Thatcher.

    And yes, she was one of the $9,000 tuition fee 27.

  120. 120
    rp says:

    @TenguPhule: He “called me out”? Grow the f*** up.

    And arguing that Corbyn campaigned for Remain hardly refutes my point that there was more he could have done. I followed the campaign very closely and am familiar with the parties’ positions and arguments.

  121. 121
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Mike in NC: Wouldn’t help, they are playing for the same team

  122. 122
    sdhays says:

    @rp: The Tory government doesn’t want to touch this, but the Russians interfered in that election as well (Brexit is directly in their interests by making the UK a giant dark money haven), and the Leave Campaign simply ignored election spending rules. There’s definitely a lot we don’t know about the illegal shit that went down the Brexit vote. But, yes, the people who didn’t cheat “could have done more”.

  123. 123
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    I followed the campaign very closely and am familiar with the parties’ positions and arguments.

    I assume you are also familiar with all internet traditions.

  124. 124
    gorram says:

    @Wapiti: Arguably, they’ve moved pretty far in that direction with the Tory dominance in the north/midlands that back in Thatcher’s day was at least around the urban centers lockstep Labour. Starting in the 1970s, the conservatives crept inward towards York, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds, and Sheffield. The 1997 and 2001 general elections showed at least a partial reversal of that process, but by 2010, it had returned and accelerated, and today it’s pretty much a given that not-quite-rural-not-quite-urban areas in the region are contestable (because as you said, there’s a racialized realignment happening, but also in those regions people are pretty aware of how Thatcher screwed them over).

    What’s also happened though is a proliferation of anti-colonial parties – Plaid Cymru in Wales and the SNP in Scotland pretty fiercely contest what were also originally Labour strongholds (although to an extent they both also compete with the Tories too, to be fair). Also, in both areas, the Liberal Dems have intermittently given Labour a good fight. Northern Ireland has a similar situation but it obviously hits the Tories harder (the NILP was a kind of “weak unionist” sort – too moderate for unionists who opted for the Tories, and obviously anathema for the nationalists whether they were interested in working class organizing or not). The long and the short of it is that the potentially nascent break-up of the union has been long hinted at, not just with devolution but with these sorts of break-ups in “international” organizing across these boundaries. But before that’s realized, that’s hurt the Labour coalition more than the Conservatives. Within England there’s been an effort to court a replacement to that coalition by appealing to multiculturalism and such, but that leaves the “economically anxious” White (and typically English) portions of Labour’s coalition vulnerable to exactly the appeals you’d expect, both from the Tories directly but also from third parties with ultimately the same effect (and the Tory adoption of Brexit as a policy represents and effort to directly capture that support).

    Just, to sum up, the realignment has already largely happened, it’s just been partially obscured by other realignments already happening, namely the rise of nationalist parties outside of England.

  125. 125
    James E Powell says:

    @Brachiator:

    Is it significant that Swinson is a Scot? I know nothing about UK politics and less than nothing about the regional differences.

  126. 126
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    She’s one of the Lib-Dems that was part of the Tory Coalition and is a fan of Thatcher. Yes, that Thatcher.

    This makes things interesting. If there is a general election, can the Lib Dems make a strong showing?

    Potentially you might have a phony ass BREXIT party, the Conservative Party, Labour, Lib Dems, and the usual miscellaneous parties (DUP).

    Would Labour have to win a majority? I thought I read that the Lib Dems were not interested in a coalition with Labour. Maybe I was dreaming.

    But if these are the choices, how do they stop BREXIT if that is really the goal?

  127. 127
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    And arguing that Corbyn campaigned for Remain hardly refutes my point that there was more he could have done. I followed the campaign very closely and am familiar with the parties’ positions and arguments.

    Corbyn campaigned for remain. Labour voted for remain 65%, Tories voted for Leave 61%. Stop fucking blaming Corbyn for the Tories vote.

  128. 128
  129. 129
    rp says:

    @TenguPhule: Again, I put 95% of the blame on the Tories. But I’m not letting Corbyn off the hook. 65% of Labour is a good number, but not great.

    I must admit that I’m confused by the emotional defenses of Corbyn. I didn’t think it was all that controversial to say he kinda f***ed this up.

  130. 130
    TenguPhule says:

    @Brachiator:

    If there is a general election, can the Lib Dems make a strong showing?

    If by strong you mean gain some seats running on Hot air and promising pie in the sky bullshit, yeah.

    Potentially you might have a phony ass BREXIT party, the Conservative Party, Labour, Lib Dems, and the usual miscellaneous parties (DUP).

    Would Labour have to win a majority?

    Technically Labour just needs to have the support of a majority of MPs regardless of party to form a coalition government. I don’t think they’ll get enough seats for a Labour only majority government any time soon barring a miracle.

    I thought I read that the Lib Dems were not interested in a coalition with Labour. Maybe I was dreaming.

    They’re not and you’re not. The fuckwit they voted in as leader is demanding Corbyn step down as a precondition before any negotiation of coalition.

    But if these are the choices, how do they stop BREXIT if that is really the goal?

    Step one would be getting Boris out of office. Step two would be a general election. Its a work in progress.

  131. 131
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    65% of Labour is a good number, but not great.

    /facepalm

    You are aware that Labour was and still is divided over Brexit? This Green lantern fetish has got to stop.

  132. 132
    Brachiator says:

    @James E Powell:

    Is it significant that Swinson is a Scot? I know nothing about UK politics and less than nothing about the regional differences.

    I try to read up on UK politics, and dip into a few blogs and podcasts on UK politics, but I don’t know much about her either. I’m not sure if, for example, she would support Scottish Independence.

    Recently from the Guardian

    Jo Swinson, the new Lib Dem leader, has again ruled out working with Jeremy Corbyn, branding him a Brexiter who could not be trusted to fight for a second referendum to keep the UK in the EU.

    She said her door was open to MPs from other parties who wanted to work towards a second referendum.

    But she said the Lib Dems could not join a pact with Labour while Corbyn was leader, even in the event of a hung parliament.

    She also defended the past Lib Dem coalition with the Conservatives.

    With this, I think that she has firmly and irrevocably opted for political irrelevance.

  133. 133
    gorram says:

    @azlib: Realistically? A hard brexit means (~both sides!~) paramilitary organizing goes back on the offensive, the collapse of the Good Friday Agreement, and the return to war time conditions (if undeclared). The only plausible non-violent solution is that a border poll happens and remaining in the UK wins (as the nationalists have shown that they’re willing to wait… hoo boy), although there’s a definitely non-zero chance that outcome would be used as a rallying cry by the unionists to do some more war crimes. No border poll amid a hard border means both sides go on the offensive, and a pro-reunification border poll means the unionists literally start killing people in the street most likely (independent of whether the Republic even *wants* the counties back, which is quietly being debated at this point).

  134. 134
    rp says:

    @TenguPhule: Yes, that’s the POINT. Labour was and is divided, but better leadership could have swayed some of the pro-Brexit people on the left. The Brexit vote was a joke — few people in the UK seemed to take it seriously or understand what they were voting on — and Corbyn didn’t do a very good job of persuading Labour voters to reject it.

    As an aside — the green lantern theory gets thrown around way too much. You almost seem to be arguing that politicians have no influence over their constituents and that people never change their minds, and neither proposition is defensible IMO.

  135. 135
    Brachiator says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Step one would be getting Boris out of office. Step two would be a general election. Its a work in progress.

    I think that the recent Guardian piece on Swinson, where she reiterated implacable opposition to Corbyn will put the Lib Dems back on the dust bin of history.

    Otherwise, the UK is stuck in the same place as before, only with Boris Johnson instead of Theresa May.

    I don’t have to pay attention to any of this shit unless there is a no confidence vote and Johnson is ousted.

  136. 136
    Mike in NC says:

    @greenergood: Greenwich Pier aboard the Viking Jupiter!

  137. 137
    Tony Jay says:

    @Barbara:

    I understand. I don’t agree, but I understand. This however –

    Our position is to remain in the EU in the absence of a definitive deal that would offer the extremely unlikely option of a deal that is better than the one we have now. Then we would agree to a second referendum.

    I’m not sure about. Is this before the actual Referendum? Corbyn didn’t become leader until after the legislation had passed. Once it did pass the Commons the Referendum question was in the hands of the Tories, and they chose the non-binding and ridiculously simplistic In or Out formula. There wasn’t going to be any definitive deal describing what Leave would look like on the table from anyone prior to the Referendum, mainly because no-one thought Leave was going to win, but also because that wasn’t the question. The whole point was to ask the public if they wanted to stay in the EU (which of course, they would) and if Leave won… well, then it would be time to start talking about what that meant, because no one (and I’m including the entire Leave campaign here) had a fucking clue.

  138. 138
    PeakVT says:

    Isn’t Brexit of pretty much any realistic sort a clear and present danger to working-class voters? If so, that should be the only thing that matters to Labour “leaders” regardless of whether party members are divided, confused, indifferent, or on holiday in the Balearics.

    In a representative democracy there will always be a tension between how much an elected official should lead or follow. Brexit seems like a case where elected officials from Labour should lead regardless of whether it costs them their party standing or offices.

    Has Corbyn lead enough, or is his (narrow, party activist) base just too stupid to follow? History will tell, hopefully.

  139. 139
    Tony Jay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I wonder sometimes if Corbyn gets conflated with Sanders because they’re both older, white-haired guys associated with the left? Nah, too superficial.

    It might be superficial,but I think that’s exactly it. Not to knock her but I recall Mnem conflating the two on the grounds that they’re both (at the time) scruffy buggers. The (deserved) disdain for Wilmer expressed around here definitely has IMHO leaked into people’s view on Corbyn.

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    but better leadership could have swayed some of the pro-Brexit people on the left.

    /doublefacepalm

    The pro-Brexit Labour party members are on the right of the party. You’re demanding “better leadership” to convince people who have already made up their minds and are too stubborn to back down. That’s not how it works.

  141. 141
    Tony Jay says:

    @The Lodger:

    Those arrivists? Pah! It’s the Judean Front of People or no one for me!

  142. 142
    Steeplejack says:

    @PeakVT:

    Has Corbyn lead led enough [. . .]?

    Fix’d.

  143. 143
    Tony Jay says:

    @Brachiator:

    Yup. Basically it comes down to the question of will enough Tory MPs choose Country over Party and bring down a Johnson Government to prevent leaving the EU with no withdrawal deal? Even if that means their Party splits and Jeremy Corbyn stands a better than even chance of becoming PM?

    That’s the big question, because after that IMO it’s a steep glide to a new Referendum and (probably) the UK remaining in the EU.

  144. 144
    TenguPhule says:

    @rp:

    and Corbyn didn’t do a very good job of persuading Labour voters to reject it.

    65% of Labour voted remain. Corbyn did his bit, the local media roundly ignored him for the most part. The Tories created the fucking Brexit vote, most of them voted and campaigned to leave, so why the fuck are you continuing to blame Corbyn for something the Tories did beyond all reason?

    HE HAS NO POWER TO STOP BREXIT UNTIL LABOUR FORMS A GOVERNMENT.

    Its that simple. Everything else is wishing for unicorns pooping sprinkles.

  145. 145
    Tony Jay says:

    @rp:

    This is like saying Sanders backed Clinton in the general election

    No it isn’t. It’s not even a little bit like that.

  146. 146
    TenguPhule says:

    @PeakVT:

    In a representative democracy there will always be a tension between how much an elected official should lead or follow. Brexit seems like a case where elected officials from Labour should lead regardless of whether it costs them their party standing or offices.

    GB has a parlimentary system of government. Which means the party in power controls EVERYTHING until they’re thrown out. Labour can’t do ANYTHING until they form a government. They have ZERO power when it comes to the government’s policies and losing seats just means the Tories stay in power and break more shit.

    Cutting their own throats in the name of purity would be an act of futility.

  147. 147
    TenguPhule says:

    @Tony Jay: : He’s arguing with you and you actually live there.

    I need to buy you a pint if ever we meet. You’ve more then earned it.

  148. 148
    Tony Jay says:

    @catclub:

    You could well be right, but… Remain has polled ahead of Leave by something like an average of 5 to 6 points since virtually straight after the Referendum, it’s been consistently that way. I just feel (unscientifically, I admit) that should people get a second bite of the apple, after all all the shit that’s come down the pipe since 2016, a LOT of casual Leave voters would choose to make it all go away in the privacy of the voting booth, and they’d be joined by a LOT of younger voters who can see their future going up in smoke and didn’t get to vote 3 years ago. Honestly, a 60% to 40% split would surprise me THAT much. Though I’d take a 51% to 49% Remain victory and celebrate like Liverpool had won the Premier League.

  149. 149
    Brachiator says:

    @Tony Jay:

    That’s the big question, because after that IMO it’s a steep glide to a new Referendum and (probably) the UK remaining in the EU.

    Yep. We shall see what happens.

  150. 150
    Tony Jay says:

    @rp:

    I must admit that I’m confused by the emotional defenses of Corbyn. I didn’t think it was all that controversial to say he kinda f***ed this up.

    That’s kind of the point, the defense isn’t emotional, it’s politics. I could say to you that Hillary Clinton was a pro-war elitist who ignored the concerns of average Americans in favour of identity politics and sweetheart deals with Wall Street and so lost to Trump’s populist campaign because she arrogantly assumed it was ‘her turn’ and offended the Democratic Party’s progressive wing by conspiring with the Party establishment to steal primary votes from Bernie Sanders.

    That wouldn’t be controversial either, because it’s the conventional wisdom the US Media has worked into a narrative to explain its own complicity. It would be 100% total bullshit and deeply, deeply maddening to the people who saw a good woman torn to shreds by the lies and distortions of a bought and paid for Mainstream Media, but it wouldn’t be ‘controversial’.

    Your line on Corbyn is the same bloody thing. You’re repeating bullshit narratives invented by the Media over here to attack a politician they don’t like and cover for their own complicity in the anti-European propaganda effort that led to Leave winning in the first place. I don’t mean to bite your head off, and I’m sorry if I’ve seemed to, but do you get it now?

  151. 151
    Tony Jay says:

    @sdhays:

    The Tory government doesn’t want to touch this, but the Russians interfered in that election as well

    Yup. The big, dark unexplored secret of the 2016 Referendum. When all that comes out, there’ll be hell to pay.

  152. 152
    Tony Jay says:

    @PeakVT:

    In a representative democracy there will always be a tension between how much an elected official should lead or follow. Brexit seems like a case where elected officials from Labour should lead regardless of whether it costs them their party standing or offices.

    Exactly. Faced with something like Brexit the only job of the Labour leadership is to lead the Party into a position where it can win a national election and remove the Tories from power. Everything else is purity trolling and about as meaningful as a fart in a bath.

    Or to quote a certain well respected politician, “Just win, baby”.

  153. 153
    Tony Jay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Everyone gets to be wrong about stuff, the trick is not to – stay – wrong.

    Why do people keep on offering me alcohol when I don’t drink during the week? You’re all trying to break me, aren’t you? 8-)

  154. 154
    greenergood says:

    @Mike in NC: Greenock not Greenwich, but will still look out for you! ;-) on the Viking Jupiter!!

  155. 155
    john fremont says:

    @fedupwithhypocrisy: And on election night Leonard Cohen

Comments are closed.