Weekend Leftovers Open Thread: Space, the Final Frontier of Bad Takes

FTFNYT, with the Hottest Take:

America’s Premier Leftist Publication: Hold our Tang!

A very *American* hero…


Also, Alan Shepherd was a very stoic hero:

More on that NSFW topic:






161 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    How Armstrong’s “giant leap for mankind” helped perpetuate inequality—on Earth and beyond.

    Given that it’s the Nation, I bet Seth Rich figures into it.

  2. 2
    different-church-lady says:

    FUCK ALL “TAKES”.

    FUCK EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM.

    (DCL +3 ROUGHLy…)

  3. 3
    different-church-lady says:

    THEY COULDN’T SEND WOMEN TO THE MOON BECAUSE IT. WAS THE 60S AND WOKEDNESS HADN’T BEEN IVENTED FUCK YOU HOT TAKE ASSHOLES!!1!

    (DCL +I DONT GIVE A SHIT AT THIS POINT…)

  4. 4
    Ruckus says:

    I have to say, that as a very young kid, I wanted, in the worst, or is it best, way to be an astronaut. There was no space program at the time, it was all SF writing, some of it reasonably close to what has since taken place. And no one discussed pee. Probably should have of course, but if they thought about it they sure didn’t talk about it.

  5. 5
    different-church-lady says:

    @Ruckus: THEY STILL SHOULDN’T TALK ABOUT IT!!1!

  6. 6
  7. 7
    West of the Rockies says:

    It’s kind of silly to judge every damn historical person and accomplishment based upon our social and cultural perceptions of today, especially when we deny any act of bravery, ingenuity, talent, or creativity in the past because the participants don’t measure up to today’s standards.

  8. 8
    raven says:

    @West of the Rockies: You’re not from around here are you?

  9. 9
    germy says:

    Some weird little factoids that stayed in my brain. I remembered them today during a conversation with my wife (who was too young to witness the moon landing):

    The flag had to be propped up with wires. With no atmosphere and wind, it would have simply hung down.

    The famous quote “One small step for man…” etc. is wrong. He actually said “One small step for a man” but a transmission glitch muffled the word “a”.

  10. 10

    @West of the Rockies: At the time, when I recognized that all the astronauts were of a certain type that was nothing like me, I was horrendously disappointed. I had been reading science fiction and envisioning me in those rockets. To this day, I have little to no interest in the space program.

  11. 11
    WhatsMyNym says:

    I think they were all ex-test pilots, which limited the pool of eligible candidates considerably.

  12. 12
    germy says:

    I remember watching the moon landing (age eleven) and being disappointed by the poor video quality. For some reason, I was expecting high-definition coverage.

    But then I saw the full-color photos in Life Magazine and was thrilled. I remember staring closely at the pictures for a long time, the way only an obsessive eleven year old can.

    I always wondered why stars weren’t visible in the hi-res color photos taken on the moon. The sky was pitch black. I expected to see constellations. I assume that’s what the astronauts saw when they looked up at the lunar sky, but that the camera exposures couldn’t capture it.

  13. 13
    Jay says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    It’s kind of silly to judge every damn current person and accomplishment based upon our social and cultural perceptions of yesterday, especially when we deny any act of bravery, ingenuity, talent, or creativity in the past because the participants don’t measure up to yesterdays standards.

    //

  14. 14
    germy says:

    Bob Schooley is starting to panic:

    Have to say, if this election is decided on the Democrats’ adeptness at fending off stupid but sticky bad faith attacks, I’m getting worried.
    — Schooley (@Rschooley) July 21, 2019

  15. 15
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    The flag is an often-used example of proof the moon landing was fake.

  16. 16
    germy says:

    @debbie: I didn’t know that. I remember reading about the wires when I was eleven years old.

  17. 17
    Mohagan says:

    @germy: I remember learning about the missing “a” and being relieved since the quote as it stands sounds good but doesn’t make a lot of sense, since without the “a”, man means the same thing as mankind.

  18. 18
    Juice Box says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I never wanted to be an astronaut, but I did want to be a NASA or JPL engineer. There weren’t very many people in engineering school who looked like me, either.

  19. 19
    CliosFanBoy says:

    ‘Good luck, Mr. Gorsky’

  20. 20
  21. 21
    Jay says:

    America may have put the first man on the moon, but the Soviet Union sent the first woman, the first Asian man, and the first black man into orbit — all years before the U.S. would follow suit https://t.co/DrTZYxvbD7— The New York Times (@nytimes) July 18, 2019

    Large aspects of both the US and Soviet space programs were used as propaganda. The Soviet Union’s propaganda often had a much different audience.

  22. 22
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    Rats, I can’t find it now. I think they didn’t know about the wires and insisted the flag’s being unfurled was proof it wasn’t photographed on the moon.

  23. 23

    @germy:

    I always wondered why stars weren’t visible in the hi-res color photos taken on the moon. The sky was pitch black. I expected to see constellations. I assume that’s what the astronauts saw when they looked up at the lunar sky, but that the camera exposures couldn’t capture it.

    They may have not been able to see any stars, they’re pretty dim and they were shooting during “daytime”. If they could see stars from the lunar surface, the only way they’d be able to capture that on film would be to exposure bracket(taking a set of exposures at different shutter speeds) and that might require using a tripod.

  24. 24
    Jay says:

    @germy:

    A thread of some importance,

    Tim Wise
    @timjacobwise

    1/ If the Dems blow this election it will not be because they were “too far left on policy” or because they “weren’t left enough.” It will have little to do with policy at all. They are making a mistake caused by traditional consultant theory that does not apply here…

    2/ And by listening to influential pundits in liberal media who also don’t get the unique nature of Trumpism, relative to normal political movements & campaigns…this election is NOT going to be won by talking about all your “great plans” for health care, jobs, education, etc..

    3/ And the reasons are several…Let me begin by saying that I have experience confronting the kind of phenomenon we see in Trumpism, and far more than most. Any of us who were involved in the fight against David Duke in LA in 90/91 know what this is and how it must be fought…

    Storified at Digby,

    https://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2019/07/they-love-him-because-he-hates-who-they.html?m=1

  25. 25
    Lumpy says:

    Why are you signal-boosting “Reflets de Tocqueville @BobbyRayIN63” who is a Tea Party/Trumper douche bro…?

  26. 26
    germy says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Huh! I always thought that with zero atmosphere, their sky would be full of stars.

  27. 27
    Dev Null says:

    @raven: +1

  28. 28
    germy says:

    @Lumpy: You’re right, I just checked his tweets. He is a douche. Surprised to see him on the front page.

  29. 29
    germy says:

    @Jay: thank you.

  30. 30
    David Evans says:

    @germy:

    I always wondered why stars weren’t visible in the hi-res color photos taken on the moon.

    The Moon’s surface was in bright sunlight. On Earth we don’t go straight from bright sunlight to starry sky, so our eyes have time to adapt.

    The camera settings for the Moon’s surface would have been something like 1/500 second at f/11 with ISO 200 film. If you go outside on a starry night and take a picture with those settings your picture won’t show any stars. The exposure time you need to capture the brightest stars is ten seconds or more, at which setting the lunar landscape and everything on it would be horribly overexposed.

  31. 31
    germy says:

    Monty Python is also celebrating its 50th anniversary.

  32. 32
    opiejeanne says:

    @WhatsMyNym: There were a lot of women who had been test pilots during WWII.

  33. 33
    BR says:

    Has The Nation written anything worthwhile in years? I used to find them interesting a decade ago, but it’s been a very long time.

  34. 34
    germy says:

    @David Evans:

    The Moon’s surface was in bright sunlight.

    It must be interesting to experience sunset on the lunar surface. I don’t remember any astronauts describing it.

  35. 35
    Mike J says:

    re:

    How Armstrong’s “giant leap for mankind” helped perpetuate inequality

    Didn’t Pete Conrad’s first words on Apollo 12 fix it?

  36. 36
    Another Scott says:

    @germy: Another one gone too soon.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  37. 37
    opiejeanne says:

    @Lumpy: I blocked him yesterday. What an asshole.

  38. 38
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @germy: It would be, but to properly expose the surface of the moon and the astronauts, meant the exposure would be too short to gather enough light from the stars to show against the black sky. Any exposure long enough for the stars would leave the surface overexposed.

  39. 39

    @germy: Your eyes would compensate for the brightness of the lunar surface, it would be light pollution in a sense. You might be able to see Jupiter or Mars, but not much else.

  40. 40
    moonbat says:

    @Jay: Having the plans to solve the systemic problems that make white, middle America “anxious” IS addressing the racism because what else does Trump have? What other fig leaf does the media have? Forcing the plan issue means you have to acknowledge that is the racism that animates him and his voters — nothing else.

  41. 41
    Another Scott says:

    @germy: IIRC, they were never on the moon after sunset. It gets far too cold there in the dark (-280F). (Another problem that needs to be addressed if we (or anyone else) wants to put a base up there.)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  42. 42
    germy says:

    A reminder that, when JFK made the commitment to go to the moon, the top tax rate was 91 percent. When Apollo 11 landed, it was 77 percent.

    Now we “can’t afford” to pay for anything.

    — Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) July 20, 2019

  43. 43
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruckus:

    I have to say, that as a very young kid, I wanted, in the worst, or is it best, way to be an astronaut

    I just wanted to travel into space. Still do. I may miss out on going to the Marriott Lunar Motel, but I still think it will happen fairly soon.

    ETA. I saw a bit of the Nation hot take. Supremely stupid.

  44. 44
    JPL says:

    @Jay: I saw that earlier and sent to a friend. Hillary ran a wonky campaign and the MSM said she didn’t talk about policy enough, so although it’s important to highlight policy difference make main stream republicans stay home.

  45. 45
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @Jay:

    If the Dems blow this election it will…

    …BE BECAUSE HALF THE POPULATION OF THIS COUNTRY IS FUCKED UP BEYOND ALL REDEMPTION FULL STOP.

  46. 46
    germy says:

    @DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY:

    Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.
    — Werner Twertzog (@WernerTwertzog) August 23, 2017

  47. 47
    B.B.A. says:

    50 years later, Gil Scott-Heron’s “Whitey on the Moon” remains the correct take.

    Also: RIP Mark Kleiman, without whom I’d never have found Balloon Juice. So it’s his fault you’re stuck with me.

  48. 48
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @debbie: I’ve seen it many places. There are two things the deniers point to as “look, you can see the flag flapping in the breeze”
    1. It actually is moving in video shot while they’re setting it up BECAUSE THE FLIPPING POLE IS BEING MOVED AROUND!
    2. The astronauts didn’t like the unnatural look of the flag sticking straight out from the pole so they wrinkled it a little to give it that “blowing in the breeze” look in the still photos. Which are STILL PHOTOS! NOTHING IS “FLAPPING”!

  49. 49
    Immanentize says:

    I was three days shy of my 10th birthday when we watched the landing and moon walk. We had a big map of the moon — 3′ by 3′ — spread on the floor in front of the Admiral TV. It was late at night when the walk occured — I was in my pajamas. I saved all the local newspapers from the next day and the New York Times magazine section from that Sunday. I still have them in the attic somewhere…. I was space obsessed.

  50. 50
    germy says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I sometimes wonder if the moon landing deniers (and also the flat earth people) know their claims are bullshit, but are just intent on compiling a mailing list of gullible followers to fleece.

  51. 51
    Brachiator says:

    @Juice Box:

    I never wanted to be an astronaut, but I did want to be a NASA or JPL engineer. There weren’t very many people in engineering school who looked like me, either.

    I was in awe of astronauts. I still am in awe of some of the people who work at JPL. On my commute, I used to take a bus that went from JPL to Cal Tech. Some of the young men and women on that bus seemed to be amazing people. And a fairly diverse bunch.

    And even though I was far older than all of them, I kinda felt like a little kid sitting with them. I would always connect back to following the Mercury 7 astronauts.

  52. 52
    J R in WV says:

    Just looked up Buzz Aldrin’s bio.

    West Point, 3rd in his class BS in Mechanical Engineering, flew fighters in Korea, got a Distinguished Flying Cross, then MIT for a ScD… His thesis subject “Line-of-sight guidance techniques for manned orbital rendezvous” was the study of bringing piloted spacecraft into close proximity with each other.

    I don’t see how that topic could ever be practical in real life, do you??

    Then on the Gemini 12 mission, the radar failed, and he needed to make use of his thesis topic in real life!! Pretty cool!

    I can see why his heartbeat was 88/second waiting for that Saturn V to touch off beneath their spacecraft. Or perhaps torch off beneath them.

    Cool dude!

  53. 53
    Brachiator says:

    @opiejeanne:
    From a Wikipedia article on the Mercury 13, a group of women who should have been astronaut candidates.

    In 1962, women were still barred from Air Force training schools, so no American women could become test pilots of military jets. Despite the fact that several of the Mercury 13 had been employed as civilian test pilots, and many had considerably more propeller aircraft flying time than the male astronaut candidates (although not in high-performance jets, like the men), NASA refused to consider granting an equivalency for their hours in propeller airplanes.

    This exclusion, along with the exclusion of non-white candidates was stupid and profoundly unfair.

  54. 54
    bjacques says:

    @David Evans: NASA timed the landing for when the moon was full, so there would be plenty of landing room, just like the DPRK landed an astronaut on the sun made sure to do so at night. Timing is key.

  55. 55
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @Brachiator: …AND YET IT STILL WASN’T NEIL ARMSTRONG’S GODDAMED FAULT.

  56. 56
    oatler. says:

    Check out Tull’s “For Michael Collins, Jeffrey and Me”

  57. 57
    HalfAssedHomesteader says:

    @B.B.A.:

    RIP Mark Kleiman

    God that sucks!

  58. 58
    Brachiator says:

    How Armstrong’s “giant leap for mankind” helped perpetuate inequality—on Earth and beyond

    Beyond?? Yeah, I remember reading about the food riots on Alpha Centauri. Helped spark the Eugenics Wars.

  59. 59
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    If it wasn’t for the space program, none of us would be enjoying a hearty breakfast of Tang and Soylent Green

  60. 60
    James E Powell says:

    @DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY:

    I’m in total agreement with that, though I disagree with this use of all caps.

  61. 61
    Brachiator says:

    @Jay:

    1/ If the Dems blow this election it will not be because they were “too far left on policy” or because they “weren’t left enough.” It will have little to do with policy at all. They are making a mistake caused by traditional consultant theory that does not apply here…

    2/ And by listening to influential pundits in liberal media who also don’t get the unique nature of Trumpism, relative to normal political movements & campaigns…this election is NOT going to be won by talking about all your “great plans” for health care, jobs, education, etc..

    I will look at this later, but it starts off Interesting.

    However, I immediately reject the idea that the Democrats are automatically or naturally “supposed to” win the election.

    But I agree that most punditry and a lot of political strategy is bullshit.

  62. 62
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @James E Powell: WE LIVE IN SHOUTY TIMES!!1!

  63. 63
    E. says:

    @Another Scott: I think you might not fully grasp something important about the moon’s rotation . . . .

  64. 64
    Jay says:

    @moonbat:

    @JPL:

    Madame Secretary Hillary Clinton and the Democratic Party had plans, good plans,

    It didn’t cut through the “Lock Her Up” and “Butter Emailz” in the MSM,

    And as the survey’s have since said, “economically anxious” like “racially flavoured” was and is just a “polite” gutless MSM word salad for “BugNutz Nazi”.

    According to the Holocaust Museum’s chart of the 10!steps to facism, the US is at #8.

    When the US MSM is euphamizing chants of “Send Her Back” as “racially tinted”, you arn’t cutting through that with plans on regulating payday lenders.

  65. 65
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: COMMERCIAL: “It’s what the astronuts drank!”
    ME: THE ASTRONAUTS WERE ALSO DRINKING THEIR OWN PURIFIED URINE YOU WANNA DO THAT TOO??2?

  66. 66
    Baud says:

    @Jay:

    1/ If the Dems blow this election 

    I’d like to see an analysis of what it means if progressives blow this election.

  67. 67
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Bernie Sanders makes my skin crawl. I see him as a non pro woman candidate.

    ~ Mimi Rocah

    That’s a BINGO

  68. 68
  69. 69
    Amir Khalid says:

    I’m watching Liverpool play Sevilla in a friendly in Boston — at Fenway Park? Liverpool have been on the back foot for these first 20 minutes.

  70. 70
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator:

    However, I immediately reject the idea that the Democrats are automatically or naturally “supposed to” win the election.

    Agreed.

  71. 71
    Brachiator says:

    @DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY:

    ME: THE ASTRONAUTS WERE ALSO DRINKING THEIR OWN PURIFIED URINE YOU WANNA DO THAT TOO??2?

    Sure. Why not?

  72. 72
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    I’m seeing an uptick in pro-Bernie activity on Reddit. I wonder if the Russians/Bros are planning something now that he’ll be in the same debate as Warren.

  73. 73
  74. 74
    J R in WV says:

    @J R in WV:

    “his [Buzz Aldrin’s] heartbeat was 88/second ” should obviously be “88/minute.” My bad.

  75. 75
    Jay says:

    @Baud:

    Helps to read full links.

  76. 76
  77. 77
    Baud says:

    @Jay:

    I got turned off with the first line. I’m not wasting my time reading Moby Dick if the first line is “Call Me Brad.”

  78. 78
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY:
    COMMERCIAL: “It’s what the astronuts drank!”

    ME: THE ASTRONAUTS WERE ALSO DRINKING THEIR OWN PURIFIED URINE YOU WANNA DO THAT TOO??2?

    Dump: only if it’s Russian.

  79. 79
    Amir Khalid says:

    @J R in WV:
    88 beats per minute is improbably low; it’s fewer than two beats per second.

  80. 80
    JR says:

    @Jay: one big mistake is “gotcha” attacks on Trump. People need to realize that the mistakes and fuckups don’t faze him. People relate to mistakes, they make them all the time. When you go needling after them with “gotcha!” It annoys folks.

    Go after trump for being a piece of shit, not because he misspells shit on Twitter.

  81. 81
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    Just kill me now.

  82. 82
    HAL says:

    Laughing at this interview clip of Anna Wintour totally dismissing Melania Trump to talk about how great Michelle Obama is. Interviewer is like “but she’s not First Lady now” and Wintour just keeps going on about Michelle Obama. Hilarious shade.

    https://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1152873440191418369?s=19

  83. 83
    Jay says:

    @Brachiator:

    It’s always a good idea to read a full article before jumping in with “hot takes”,…

  84. 84
    Kirk Spencer says:

    @Baud: Do you also wonder if the sun will rise tomorrow? (/s)

  85. 85

    @Baud: There seems to be an uptick in bot activity around Bernie, both positive and negative for him.

  86. 86
    Chyron HR says:

    @Baud:

    Maybe they should plan what kind of damage control they’re going to do after the fifth time angry grandpa snarlingly addresses Sen. Warren as “Hillary”.

  87. 87
  88. 88
    Jay says:

    @JR:

    Gee, it’s almost like you read the article, but not quite.

  89. 89
    ljdramone says:

    @Amir Khalid: not really. Get one of those fitness doodads that measures your heart rate, and you should find your resting heart rate is somewhere around 60-75 beats per minute.

    In Michael Collins’ excellent 1974 autobiography “Carrying the Fire” he mentions that mission control could tell when the astronauts were asleep — their heart rates went down to about 40 bpm or so.

  90. 90
    NotMax says:

    Anyone heard from Major Tom?

    :)

    And now for something completely different. Hudson & Landry, “Astro-nut.”

  91. 91
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    So it’s not just me. What else could it be other than the debate placements?

  92. 92
    Doug R says:

    @Another Scott:

    IIRC, they were never on the moon after sunset. It gets far too cold there in the dark (-280F). (Another problem that needs to be addressed if we (or anyone else) wants to put a base up there.)

    Underground domes, dug by explosives, possibly nuclear.

  93. 93
    NotMax says:

    @DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY

    Part of survival training in the Boy Scouts back in the day was learning a method to get potable water from urine.

  94. 94
    Amir Khalid says:

    Sevilla get the goal they’ve been threatening throughout the first half. 1-0. It’s been a scrappy match so far: three yellow cards already.
    And Divock scores! 1-1!

  95. 95
    moonbat says:

    @Jay: You need to pay closer attention to what our candidates are offering because you are mischaracterizing what Warren in particular is saying. Look up her YouTube video on redlining and tell me she s not addressing the race issue.

  96. 96
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Ruckus: I wanted to be a rocket pilot – because neither astronaut nor cosmonaut was in common use until 1958 and 1961, respectively. By that time I’d gotten my first pair of coke-bottle-bottom specs, which kind of put the kibosh on the whole idea.

    And FTR, piss on the fucking imbeciles at The (Uri)Nation.

  97. 97
    Jay says:

    @Doug R:

    It’s -457.87F in space, so the problem of residing at night on the moon has already been solved.

  98. 98
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: That Twitter thread is actually very good. Worth a few minutes of your time in my opinion.

    I ran across it in Karoli’s tweet feed as well as LGF’s Charles Johnson’s.

  99. 99
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @germy:

    The famous quote “One small step for man…” etc. is wrong. He actually said “One small step for a man” but a transmission glitch muffled the word “a”.

    Bangalore! You can hear the “a” if you listen closely to the tape. Fuck the morons who say otherwise.

  100. 100
    Jay says:

    @moonbat:

    Helps to read links before hot takes unless you are BBQ-ing, and even then you are doing it wrong.

  101. 101
    ljdramone says:

    With respect to the New York Times’ hot take, the Soviet Union also put the first man in space, flew the first spacecraft with more than one person in it, and flew the first Vietnamese and Bulgarian astronauts. We flew the first Israeli, though, so AMERICA F*CK YEAH.

    I have a sneaking suspicion that the promotion of equality may not have been a major motivation for Soviet space planners. Valentina Tereshkova was the *only* female cosmonaut for 19 years, from 1963 until Svetlana Savitskaya flew on Soyuz T-7 in 1982, coincidentally (no doubt) the year before Sally Ride flew on the Space Shuttle.

    Maybe the NYT has never heard of something called “propaganda”. Some say the Soviets were pretty good at it.

  102. 102
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax:

    Anyone heard from Major Tom?

    He’s a junky
    Ashes to Ashes

  103. 103
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay:

    It’s -457.87F in space, so the problem of residing at night on the moon has already been solved.

    Heavy blankets and spooning on the Moon?

  104. 104
  105. 105
    Jay says:

    Every word of this feels like you're reading some darkly absurdist dystopian novel, but it's a real government agency. https://t.co/A0mii8nerg pic.twitter.com/QlddbDoBIH— Taniel (@Taniel) July 15, 2019

    It’s a FTFNYT excerpt, and all you need to know, so no need to give the FTFNYT the clicks.

  106. 106
    Immanentize says:

    @ljdramone:
    CCCP — First Dog in Space! Beat that North American Scum!

  107. 107
    Amir Khalid says:

    @ljdramone:
    My bad — I got up early for the football. Speaking of which, Sevilla have been somewhat intemperate today, perhaps beause of the summer heat. A player already on a yellow elbowed Liverpool’s Harry Wilson in the face quite unnecessarily, and somehow escaped his second yellow.

  108. 108
  109. 109
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Plus cuddling on the bed with the 3 dogs the Soviets sent up.

  110. 110
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Immanentize: The Soviets tended to be more focused on getting into space than on getting home again. Laika (the first dog in space), as I recall, had no return mission. Was left to die up there when the mission was ended. And there were a number of incidents where cosmonauts died on re-entry that somehow didn’t make the Soviet propaganda.

  111. 111
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay: LOL. Three dog night – on the Moon!

  112. 112
    Immanentize says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Laika (the first dog in space), as I recall, had no return mission.

    You are really not up to date on your Guardians of the Galaxy…..

  113. 113
    Immanentize says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Momma told me not to come….

  114. 114
    SWMBO says:

    There is a Scotian thread up top now.

  115. 115
    Another Scott says:

    @Jay: Wikipedia:

    The long lunar night would impede reliance on solar power and require that a colony exposed to the sunlit equatorial surface be designed to withstand large temperature extremes (about 95 K (−178.2 °C) to about 400 K (127 °C)). An exception to this restriction are the so-called “peaks of eternal light” located at the lunar north pole that are constantly bathed in sunlight. The rim of Shackleton Crater, towards the lunar south pole, also has a near-constant solar illumination. Other areas near the poles that get light most of the time could be linked in a power grid. The temperature 1 meter below the surface of the Moon is estimated to be near constant over the period of a month varying with latitude from near 220 K (−53 °C) at the equator to near 150 K (−123 °C) at the poles.[71]

    […]

    HTH.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  116. 116
    Jay says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Also not included are alleged unreported Soviet space accidents, which are considered fringe theories by a majority of historians.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents

  117. 117
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @NotMax: Saturday morning staple for me as a yoot – idiotic as it (mostly) was.

  118. 118
    Tony Jay says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Get in Divock!

    I like this whole “Friendlies? Whatever.” vibe the Reds have about them now. We’re not chasing any victory we can get anymore. Getting the Champions League at the second attempt seems to have instilled a sense of destiny in the players. Lost out to Citeh by a single point last season? We’ll just go one better this season. Sorted.

    It’s a good time to be a Liverpool fan.

  119. 119
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    It’s been a long road
    Getting from there to here
    It’s been a long time
    But my time is finally near
    And I can feel the change in the wind right now

    Nothing’s in my way
    And they’re not gonna hold me down no more
    No, they’re not gonna hold me down

    ‘Cause I’ve got faith of the heart
    I’m going where my heart will take me
    I’ve got faith to believe
    I can do anything
    I’ve got strength of the soul
    And no one’s gonna bend or break me
    I can reach any star
    I’ve got faith
    I’ve got faith, faith of the heart

    It’s been a long night
    Trying to find my way
    Been through the darkness
    Now I finally have my day
    And I will see my dream come alive at last
    I will touch the sky
    And they’re not gonna hold me down no more
    No, they’re not gonna change my mind

    ‘Cause I’ve got faith of the heart
    I’m going where my heart will take me
    I’ve got faith to believe
    I can do anything
    I’ve got strength of the soul
    And no one’s gonna bend or break me
    I can reach any star
    I’ve got faith, faith of the heart

    I’ve known the wind so cold, I’ve seen the darkest days
    But now the winds I feel, are only winds of change
    I’ve been through the fire and I’ve been through the rain
    But I’ll be fine

    ‘Cause I’ve got faith of the heart
    I’m going where my heart will take me
    I’ve got faith to believe
    I can do anything
    I’ve got strength of the soul
    And no one’s gonna bend or break me
    I can reach any star

    ‘Cause I’ve got faith of the heart
    I’m going where my heart will take me
    I’ve got strength of the soul
    No one’s gonna bend or break me
    I can reach any star
    I’ve got faith
    I’ve got faith, faith of the heart
    It’s been a long road

  120. 120
    caphilldcne says:

    @B.B.A.: oh no! Sad to hear this. I’m pretty sure that I found Balloon juice (or maybe Sullivan). he was always a welcoming, smart, decent person and made me think twice even though I was a lot farther out on drug legalization than he was. I weirdly went over to his blog not long before reading your comment but there’s no notice and only found out from your comment so thank you. RIP

  121. 121
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    @Jay: Don’t need the conspiracy theories. There was more than one known accident.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_spaceflight-related_accidents_and_incidents
    LOL, just realized you included the same link to make the opposite (?) point.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/krulwich/2011/05/02/134597833/cosmonaut-crashed-into-earth-crying-in-rage

    Just, as I said, not publicized.

    Also I know Cold War stories of soviet Air Force capabilities which were possible only because they were not survivable for the pilot.

    My point is that I think the US was arguably more concerned about survivability. I’m sure that’s in no small part because it means more bells and whistles and profits for the aerospace companies.

  122. 122
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Immanentize: Jeremiah was a moonfrog…

  123. 123
    NotMax says:

    @Immanentize

    Also the first (known) space program-related human fatality.

  124. 124
    Ruckus says:

    @germy:
    I think a lot of the flat earthers and every other half baked bullshit theory are afraid of the world being bigger than they can see because then it’s also bigger than they can think.

  125. 125
    Ruckus says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    Every growing boy needs tang.
    Which TV show.

  126. 126
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @germy: People aren’t that stupid. *starts a Build The Wall GoFundMe with goal of $1 trillion* Off to rake in the interest payments.

  127. 127
    redoubt says:

    Alan Shepard wrote about his mission–including the urine problem–in the July/August 1994 issue of American Heritage magazine: https://www.americanheritage.com/first-step-moon

  128. 128

    @Baud: Could be the debates, or just whatever the Internet Research Agency is onto next. Important thing is not to get caught up in it.

  129. 129
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:
    Maybe. But then the US government had to worry about bad publicity among there citizens. After all, those involved and in elected oversight positions could lose their jobs as a result of callous disregard for astronauts’ lives. The Sovieg Union never had that problem

  130. 130
    NotMax says:

    @Uncle Cosmo

    One thing I recall from Tom Corbett, Space Cadet is a “computer,” which was a Webcor tape recorder with upside-down pie tins glued to the reels.

  131. 131
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Brachiator: You never learned about the 1975 race riots on the Sun, did you?

  132. 132
    ThresherK says:

    @ljdramone:

    Maybe the NYT has never heard of something called “propaganda”.

    I dunno, that doesn’ t sound like any NYT I’ve heard of!

  133. 133
    Ruckus says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    @ljdramone:
    18 yrs ago I was in great shape. My sitting heart rate was 50-52. My normal walking HR was around 75 but I also walked at 5 mph.
    I’d love to be anywhere near there again.
    As I sit here typing my HR is 63. I have a portable BP monitor – we won’t discuss BP

  134. 134
    ljdramone says:

    @redoubt: Alan Shepard’s unheroic urinary tract is also mentioned in Tom Wolfe’s “The Right Stuff”, published in 1979. In that account, Mission Control was concerned that the urine would run up the back of his suit (he was lying on his back when Freedom 7 was on the pad) and short out some electrical wiring.

  135. 135
    Jay says:

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    And yet the vast majority who died on missions were on US Missions, 24/29.

    And the Soviets/Russians have way more sucessful manned missions under their belts.

    So “designed for survivability” does not seem to be valid.

    The vast differences between technology, industry, engineering and design culture, and environmental conditions often leads to prejudicial assumptions.

    My Inuit ulu was dissed constantly by Westerners as primitive technology, and yet, it’s one of the easiest to use and most versitile knives in my kitchen and I always carry one in the woods.

    For the tasks that it is used for, nothing beats it other than having someone else do the chore.

  136. 136
    JPL says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Why? No one would ever answer that question for me.

  137. 137
    Jay says:

    @caphilldcne:

    Scotian’s still here. He and his family need some financial assistance for his last days and after.

  138. 138
    Ben Cisco says:

    My first realization that I was “different” from what was considered the norm occurred when my brother and I went to a Holloween party in astronaut costumes and couldn’t figure out why everyone instantly knew who we were without even speaking.

    The costumes had no gloves.

    But I had already seen LT Uhura, and I knew my future was in science. So those astronauts inspired me even if the powers that be were lacking in vision.

    One of the promises of America is rising above expectations. Even and ESPECIALLY our own. May it continue to be so, for all our sakes.

  139. 139
    Amir Khalid says:

    10-man Sevilla score again. 2-1. Feh.

  140. 140
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @JPL: Don’t know. I’ve always found it stranger that a bullfrog had fine wine.

  141. 141
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    You do realize that Enterprise killed the franchise for years, right?

  142. 142
    2liberal says:

    @germy:

    It must be interesting to experience sunset on the lunar surface. I don’t remember any astronauts describing it.

    the lunar “day” is two weeks.

  143. 143
    ljdramone says:

    @Jay:

    And yet the vast majority who died on missions were on US Missions, 24/29.
    And the Soviets/Russians have way more sucessful manned missions under their belts.

    Isn’t it 4 Soviet cosmonauts dead on missions vs 14 (2x Space Shuttle crews of 7 each)?
    On the other hand, the Saturn V never blew up on the launch pad, killing a bunch of rocket scientists and high-ranking military officers. Can’t exactly say that about the Soviet N-1.

  144. 144
    The Lodger says:

    @Jay: I think BBA and caphilldcne were talking about Mark A. R. Kleiman.

  145. 145
    rikyrah says:

    The shade….
    The SHADE😊😊😊

    Anna Wintour for the win😂😂😂

    https://twitter.com/_Vaun/status/1152922554635575301

  146. 146
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @rikyrah: Haha. That’s good.

  147. 147
    David Brown says:

    Michael Collins shoulda taken a selfie.

  148. 148
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @NotMax: AT THE BREAKFAST TABLE?

  149. 149
    Another Scott says:

    OT – I know Seth has occasionally been cited here, so this may be of interest.

    There’s a bit of a dustup between Popehat and NonWhiteHat (and his followers) on one side and Seth Abramson (and his followers) on the other. About whether Seth is a grifter, and whether calling Seth a grifter is libel.

    Popehat:

    1000/24thHat @Popehat

    I’ve now been blocked by that Fox Danny Bingo Bongo guy what hates lemons, and Michael Avenatti (pre-indictment), and now Seth Abramson, so if I can just get Queen Rico von McSupremeCourtMarshal of Crazyville to block me, I’d have a satisfactory set.

    4:37 PM – 21 Jul 2019

    The Seth thread is here.

    I’m thinking back to Kay’s story about lawyers and that they’re happy if they enjoy interacting with 2 out of 3 groups: 1) clients, 2) judges, 3) other lawyers. Was Popehat a happy lawyer?? ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  150. 150
    Jay says:

    @ljdramone:

    Training and missions, not just missions.

    And yet, if you want to go to space in the last 8 years, you ride in a Soyuz.

    0 N-1 Fatalities,

    And you are running out of RD-180 Soviett/Russian rocket motors with the planned replacements falling further and further behind schedule.

    The Soviet Space Program had a completely different engineering culture, technology base, industrial base and geographic/strategic environment that the US Space Program.

    Trying to compare the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

    The Soviets/Russians have had 146 sucessful manned missions to space despite complete collapse in 1991 and not even a partial economic recovery until 2000 . The US has 138, sucessful manned missions.

  151. 151
    DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY says:

    @ljdramone: THEY ALSO KILLED THE FIRST MAN IN SPACE SO FUCK THEM.

  152. 152
    Peale says:

    @Jay: meh. Look, I get the urgency. And if the Democrats aren’t having voting registration drives in the states they need to win now, I don’t know what to say. But we are having a primary now. With lots of candidates. That is going out of its way to be seen as fair. We also need to shore up what our policies are in this process. So it’s frustrating, but “who can say the most frightening things about trump” and who can say the most heartwarming things about us, isn’t what we’re doing right now. Lots of voters complained last time that the democratic primary wasn’t fair. And if I recall, when Obama won in 2008, lots of democratic voters were shocked that they hadn’t elected their policy choices and promptly stayed home. Should we ignore that bit of history?

    There is no “the most anti trump candidate” running. It’s impossible standard.

  153. 153
    Brachiator says:

    @Jay:

    A thread of some importance

    Finally got a chance to read the entire thing. It’s interesting, but ultimately I don’t think it’s applicable to where we are now.

    I also disagree with this variation of “Trump supporters have cooties so we can never deal with them.”

    Also, this stood out as being especially wrongheaded.

    What the left never understands is: we need to stop approaching elections like the goddamned debate team, and start approaching it like the right does, like the cheerleading squad…

    Is the writer advocating blind, stupid devotion to our chosen leaders? And blind empty headed support for whatever a Democrat proposes? Not gonna happen.

    Also, don’t you have to change minds or at least suppress GOP voter turnout in swing states?

    Also, Duke was running for office. Trump is already president. Different context demands a different strategy. Appeal to morality alone won’t get the job done.

  154. 154
    Peale says:

    @Brachiator: I assume I wasn’t the audience, as I was enthusiastic about my candidate last time. It wasn’t my section of the party that showed up to the convention to Pooh Pooh the candidate that was selected.just sayin…

  155. 155
    Jay says:

    @Peale:

    @Brachiator:

    It’s advice for the future nominee, and for those who are already elected now.

    The MSM has been busy for a long time normalizing Wussolinni and pretending that hate, rape, racism and facism arn’t really hate, rape, racism or facism,

    “fanned the flames of a racial fire”
    “racially infused”
    “racially charged”

    https://www.cjr.org/the_media_today/trump_racist_tweets.php

  156. 156
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Baud: The Nation is as utterly worthless as the National Socialist Review.

  157. 157
    PJ says:

    @DIFFERENT-CHURCH-LADY: Komarov knew the mission was doomed, but he wouldn’t let Gagarin, the backup pilot (and the first man in space) die in his place, and the Party demanded that they proceed despite the known flaws in the vehicle. So in exchange for going up, he demanded that they have an open casket funeral so that the Party members would have to see what they had wrought.

  158. 158
    Jamey says:

    @germy: that, too, was created in a TV studio…

  159. 159
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @PJ: but Gagarin got killed anyway in an entirely avoidable plane crash.

    Overall, though, the Soviet/Russian program has a far better safety record than ours just because we lost two whole shuttle crews.

  160. 160
    Matt McIrvin says:

    (There was that “Mars probe” that exploded on the pad and killed a huge number of people, but last I heard that wasn’t really a Mars probe at all, it was an ICBM test, so not sure it should count.)

  161. 161
    Death Panel Truck says:

    A rat done bit my sister Nell.
    (with Whitey on the moon)
    Her face and arms began to swell.
    (and Whitey’s on the moon)
    I can’t pay no doctor bill.
    (but Whitey’s on the moon)
    Ten years from now I’ll be payin’ still.
    (while Whitey’s on the moon)
    The man jus’ upped my rent las’ night.
    (’cause Whitey’s on the moon)
    No hot water, no toilets, no lights.
    (but Whitey’s on the moon)
    I wonder why he’s uppi’ me?
    (’cause Whitey’s on the moon?)
    I was already payin’ ‘im fifty a week.
    (with Whitey on the moon)
    Taxes takin’ my whole damn check,
    Junkies makin’ me a nervous wreck,
    The price of food is goin’ up,
    An’ as if all that shit wasn’t enough
    A rat done bit my sister Nell.
    (with Whitey on the moon)
    Her face an’ arm began to swell.
    (but Whitey’s on the moon)
    Was all that money I made las’ year
    (for Whitey on the moon?)
    How come there ain’t no money here?
    (Hm! Whitey’s on the moon)
    Y’know I jus’ ’bout had my fill
    (of Whitey on the moon)
    I think I’ll sen’ these doctor bills,
    Airmail special
    (to Whitey on the moon)

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