Election 2020 Open Thread: The CNN Debate Draw

What I was hoping for was a Biden-Bernie matchup, with the old bulls fighting over the remnants of the name-recognition vote. What I feared was a Harris-Warren draw, where the moderators would spend entirely too much time crying Let’s you and her fight!

What we’re gonna get, I suspect, is at least 24 hours of Extremely Online Drama as the Berniacs complain that one or more of their current chewtoys (Warren, Buttigieg & O’Rourke) was extremely cruel and unfair to their patron saint… following a long week of Media Village Idiots salivating over the potential for another Biden-Harris “fistfight”. Oh, well, it’s early days, and the normal people will be too busy with their summer to pay attention.

Early notes from the Washington Post:

The Democratic field is the most diverse ever and yet all five minority candidates ended up on the same night. If Harris does go after Biden again on race issues, he could face a pile-on with Booker onstage as well. Booker was actually the first candidate to take Biden to task for his comments about working with well-known segregationists early in his career.

O’Rourke, who raised a huge amount of money in his first 24 hours in the race, lost his early momentum while Buttigieg, who raised the most money of any candidate in the second quarter, surged. O’Rourke may try to recapture the mantle as the face of the next generation. Buttigieg, meanwhile, will have an opportunity to position himself as a pragmatist versus the more liberal Sanders and Warren…

72 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    I feel like there should be a Fantasy Debate League.

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    I’m kind of interested in seeing how Bullock will handle the lefties on Day 1.

  3. 3

    Should I watch the debate on the 30th, or see a one-day-only movie theatre showing of Kiki’s Delivery Service

  4. 4
    Doug R says:

    @Major Major Major Major: You could set the DVR and go see Kiki.

  5. 5
    Jeffro says:

    This will change about um oh maybe exactly nothing.

    The Dem field has already settled down to its top 5-6 candidates and everything else is just silly clickbait/watchbait.

    Perhaps we could get some more coverage on why Hickenlooper needs to pack it in, why Delaney’s just a vanity candidate, what a nut Williamson is (take her out just so McCardle can’t write about her again), etc.

    Maybe some intrepid reporter could do a story about how folks just run for president to get attention, or to fundraise, or to run for VP/cabinet, or because they’re bored? Maybe some REALLY bold soul could do a piece on what it would take to amend the Constitution so that only a sitting Rep, Senator, or state Gov could run for president?

  6. 6

    @Doug R: it’s just not the same when it’s not live. But yeah I’ll probably do Kiki’s.

  7. 7
    jl says:

    @Baud: ” I feel like there should be a Fantasy Debate League. ”

    What we have is a simultaneous blend of a real debate with Biden, Harris, Warren and Sanders, and then the fantasy league with the others. That might be unfair to Buttigieg, but, we’ll see if he does better than last time.

    But maybe Baud 2020! is talking about a debate between himself, staggering from lectern to lectern yelling random insults and shit at whatever he just said. That would be fun to watch.

  8. 8
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Reference Wilmer and his followers, in the words of the great and late efgoldman:

    fuck ’em.

  9. 9
    plato says:

    Any one else having stackpathcdn issue with the bj desktop version on firefox?

  10. 10
    Martin says:

    This is the problem with another random selection. There are what, 5 non-white candidates, and they all ended up on the same stage, after Trump’s ‘send her home’ bomb lands? Night 1 will, once again, look nothing like night 2.

  11. 11


    But maybe Baud 2020! is talking about a debate between himself, staggering from lectern to lectern yelling random insults and shit at whatever he just said. That would be fun to watch.

    For once, I agree. OTOH, I’ll be out in the desert anyway.

  12. 12
    Redshift says:

    Since this is an open thread – I went to the National Archives for a showing of Apollo 11, the new documentary, and a discussion with the filmmakers.

    Go see it on the big screen if you can! They partnered with the Archives to digitize and use a bunch of 70mm footage from NASA that hasn’t been seen by the public before, as well as a lot of audio.

  13. 13
    jl says:

    As I argued in ‘Repubs in Disarray’ thread, if Sanders is smarter than some of his unhinged fanatics, he’ll work with Warren to damage centrists generally. His best bet is to encourage support for progressive policies so he can survive long enough to draw the distinctions between Warren at greater length (and IMHO Sanders will lose badly, but if he’s not there he can never win that match).

    Harris should do another number on Biden, on another issue. Though I am not as down on Biden as I have been, since his campaign finally could be bothered to put out some plausible policy proposals on important issues, rather than promise a combo Obama, and ‘Ronnie an’ ol’ Tip gittin ‘er done at the bar’ nostalgia tour.

  14. 14
    plato says:

    The @NewYorker cartoon of the day. pic.twitter.com/9heJwJT0F4— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 19, 2019

  15. 15
    Mary G says:

    Just another example of the fact that averages don’t mean squat in a small sample. I learned that at the blackjack table when I was 21.

  16. 16
    dmsilev says:

    @Redshift: I have plans to see it this weekend. Hopefully work won’t intervene; there’s a reasonable chance I’ll have to be on call for at least Saturday and possibly Sunday as well. Sigh.

  17. 17
    eemom says:

    Election 2020 Open Thread

    Thought for a moment there that I’d fallen asleep for 16 months. 😳

  18. 18
    Mandalay says:


    Any one else having stackpathcdn issue with the bj desktop version on firefox?

    I seeThe script from “https://b2a3m9g8.stackpathcdn.com/wp-includes/js/jquery/jquery-migrate.min.js?ver=1.4.1” was loaded even though its MIME type (“”) is not a valid JavaScript MIME type if I go looking for it, but it’s not causing any problem.

  19. 19
    jl says:

    @eemom: Hope you had a nice sleep. Bad news is that Baud 2020! lost again. Good news is that he don’t care.

  20. 20
    CatFacts says:

    @Major Major Major Major: I’d go for Kiki’s myself. In fact, I may, if it’s showing in my area. Also for anyone who cares, Fathom events is apparently doing a couple big-screen showings of Lawrence of Arabia the first week of September.

  21. 21
    plato says:

    @Mandalay: Thanks. It’s slowing down the site for me considerably. I had to block it in Adblock to even load he site but then the whole appearance goes sideways.

  22. 22
    debbie says:

    Stephen Colbert should win every Emmy in the world. His bit on last night’s rally and then Trump’s statements throwing his supporters under the bus today was brilliant, but even more brilliant was his new nickname for Trump, Wussalini.

  23. 23



    Oh boy that is an accurate one.

  24. 24
    Ohio Mom says:

    I had to google Bullock, I forgot who he was. I can barely place a few of the others. Can’t wait until the hanger-ons are gone and I can count who is left on one hand and maybe an extra finger or two.

  25. 25
    NotMax says:

    @Ohio Mom

    Polydactyl primary!


  26. 26
    Mnemosyne says:

    Ah, the joys of pet ownership, like when your cat decides to puke up a hairball on the bed while you’re in the other room.

    And then you discover that he strained so hard that he left a little ball of poop behind, too.

  27. 27
    ThresherK says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Kiki’s Delivery Service, if I were you.

    Latest theory about the Kyoto Animation fire is that the man who set the fire might have been pissed that they were making a movie full of males swimming (instead of lots of cute moe girls, like in many of their other works), based on their anime Free!.

  28. 28
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @ThresherK: I haven’t the faintest idea what the fuck you are talking about, and I am completely okay with that.

  29. 29
    jl says:

    @Mnemosyne: My brother and his wife adopted a sweet cat found wandering in the boondocks. Great cat. Fun entertaining cat. Sweet tempered cat. but, it thought that leaving… how should I put it.. various excretory ‘pillow presents’ was a good idea on beds. After a couple of times, and near misses when people wanted to lie down, pillows on sleeping beds were always on covered up, locked down, rendered out of sight and out of cat temptation.

  30. 30


    As I argued in ‘Repubs in Disarray’ thread, if Sanders is smarter than some of his unhinged fanatics, he’ll work with Warren

    And as I commented in that thread, Sanders is neither willing nor able to put down his ego and work equally with a woman.

  31. 31
    Another Scott says:

    Some here may remember that a Democratic candidate in a safe seat in Virginia was in danger of being left off the ballot because of a paperwork snafu. Clint Jenkins eventually got on the ballot.


    This is crazy; check out the scoop by RTD political reporter Graham Moomaw on the huge f’up by hard-right Del. Nick Freitas (R-HD30; 61% Gillespie district). Also, see below for some analysis by Chaz Nuttycombe and Geoffrey Skelley of 538. The bottom line, though, is that “it would be the funniest thing on earth if Nick Freitas screwing up his paperwork led to this district flipping Democratic by R’s not being able to have anyone in the race, because there is no, I repeat, no path to a majority for R’s if this seat flips.” Hahaha. Oh, and don’t forget to support Democratic nominee Ann Ridgeway – she’s great!


    tl;dr – He messed up his filing and withdrew hoping that the party could replace him with someone else. But since he wasn’t the Republican nominee, state law pretty clearly says that he can’t be replaced (because only nominees can be replaced on the ballot). But we’ll have to see…

    Monkey wrenches can fall from the sky at any time. We need to fight for every seat.


  32. 32
    jl says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: We’ll see. If he wants to sink himself now, rather than wait to lose to Warren later, that is his business.

  33. 33
    Jay says:

    According to Meghan McCain, the worst part of a crowd yelling "Send her back!" about Ilhan Omar and Trump's continued racist attacks on her is ..how McCain has lost her "agency" to be critical (see: Islamophobic) about Omar. And how it won't sell conservatism to young people. pic.twitter.com/MsszKgZP4G— Sana Saeed (@SanaSaeed) July 18, 2019

  34. 34
    James E Powell says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    I had to google Bullock, I forgot who he was.

    Every time I see his name, I think of the sheriff on Deadwood.

  35. 35
    KithKanan says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Kiki’s is two days only (28th and 31st) if you prefer dubs, or one day only (29th) if you prefer subs. I’m going on the 29th, but YMMV.

  36. 36
    NotMax says:

    @James E Powell

    Funny, first person named Bullock who comes to mind is Harvey.

  37. 37
  38. 38
    CaseyL says:

    @James E Powell: I think of Sandra. Have to do a little mental dogleg, and then still can’t remember who the not-Sandra Bullock is.

    This crowd of Democratic candidates…! I think the second and third tier are thinking, each and every one of them, that there’s a sweet spot between Very Liberal and Very Moderate that they can hit and be all things to all people. You don’t get into politics unless you have an ego the size of a planet, after all; actual ability to craft policies and have a coherent governing philosophy are way down the list of necessary traits, hardly there at all.

    It blows my mind how often politicians don’t seem to have any actual, real skills or subject matter knowledge.

  39. 39
    smike says:

    Don’t know the Bullock, but inevitable headline lurks:


    ETA I just realized that tRump might the might the first to riff on that.

  40. 40
    Yutsano says:

    @NotMax: Y u make Jm J cry?
    (I also thought he passed away years ago. Good to see he’s still around!)

  41. 41
    NotMax says:


    Kudos for using the classical spelling of his name..

  42. 42
    Kineslaw says:

    Could be some interesting optics on the second night. If the higher-polling candidates are towards the center of the stage Biden could wind up with two minority candidates on each side of him. Doubt that will make him look more like the face of the Democratic Party.

  43. 43
    Jay says:

    Back to business.Today I questioned Acting DHS Sec McAleenan on reports that Trump offered him a pardon if he violated US law to block asylum seekers, & whether those in the CBP group who threatened Members of Congress & shared rape images are still in charge of women+children. https://t.co/FzA4kp9xJR— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) July 18, 2019

  44. 44
    Doug R says:


    Kiki’s is two days only (28th and 31st) if you prefer dubs, or one day only (29th) if you prefer subs. I’m going on the 29th, but YMMV.

    I’m generally a fan of sub-titles because you get the actor’s actual vocal performance, plus it allows for more on set live audio.
    However, especially the Studio Ghilbi films when it comes to cartoons they’re starting to hire good English voice actors and cartoon sound is all mixed in post anyway. I mean, when you can get Tina Fey and Mark Hamill and Cloris Leachman….

  45. 45
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    So a few hours ago I came to terms with the fact that I am an alcoholic. I’ve already reached out to the blogmeister; will welcome any encouragement and words of wisdom from others who have trod this path. Blessings all around.

  46. 46
    Jay says:


    Blessings, best wishes, stay strong.

  47. 47
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: That runs in my family too. Stay strong, and best wishes for you.

    There’s not a ton WE can do other than cheer you on, but let us know if we can do anything.

  48. 48
    jl says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:Good luck. A few years ago I was in the dumps and drank too much for a while in a futile attempt to feel better. In retrospect, I realize it only made me feel worse, mentally, emotionally and physically. My advice, if you have access, is to talk with a therapist about it to uncover what is causing the dependence, and how that produces the pattern of abuse that you’ve noticed. Do everything, anything, to avoid or nullify the triggers that get you drinking.

    A key for me was exercise. And reflecting on how excess drinking wrecks your health, almost to the extent smoking does. Once I got over the emotional triggers that got me to drinking, appreciating how much better I felt, by an order of magnitude, after I quit, kept me going.

  49. 49
    Redshift says:


    I just realized that tRump might the might the first to riff on that.

    Doubt it, the slang is too furrin for the deplorables (or Trump) to get it.

  50. 50
    Steeplejack says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Kiki’s Delivery Service, for sure! In my top three Miyazaki movies, with My Neighbor Totoro and Spirited Away (no order). Okay, four, with Howl’s Moving Castle.

    Definitely worth seeing on the big screen.

    Down here in D.C. they’re also showing it on Sunday the 28th and Monday the 29th.

  51. 51
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Thank you, all.

  52. 52
    Ruckus says:

    Knowledge is first.
    Admitting that knowledge is second.
    Now you get to work.
    It isn’t easy but it is dramatically rewarding.
    So congrats, you are now on a good road, some would say a great road, and if you need directions there are many maps and many willing helpers to get you to the next intersection.
    Just ask.

  53. 53
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Thank you, Ruckus. I shall.

  54. 54
    opiejeanne says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Take care of yourself. I’ll be thinking of you and wishing you encouragement.

    It runs in my family but no one in my immediate family has been, so I’m lucky.

  55. 55
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I appreciate that, opiejeanne. Thank you so much.

    Really REALLY going to sleep now.

  56. 56
    wasabi gasp says:

    Looksee forward to all us unite near Bernie.

  57. 57
    rikyrah says:

    Sending you positive thoughts for your journey 🙏🙏

  58. 58
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Thank you, rikyrah.

  59. 59
    Aleta says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: ❤️ 🎶 💜
    sending love to you

  60. 60
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Thank you! Love backatcha :-)

  61. 61
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    A lie.

  62. 62

    @SiubhanDuinne: The sleep part? I have a cocker spaniel who demanded ‘snuggle time’ so I ended up sleeping for 5 hours, now I’m awake.

  63. 63
    Blue mouser says:

    @ThresherK: I had heard it was because he thought they had plagiarized something of his? Wow. If the new theory is true that helps perpetuate the negative stereotype of certain types of Otaku. I just saw the latest Trailer for the newest movie in the Free! franchise. Release date in 2020 from Kyoani. Going to go sit in a corner and cry now

  64. 64
    satby says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: sending light and love! Anyone who can jump out of a plane can handle this.

  65. 65
    Josie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Bless you for facing this challenge. I wish you strength and peace.

  66. 66

    @SiubhanDuinne: I just saw this on FB. All the best to you, Siubhan. We’re here if you need us.

  67. 67
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: and why would Warren work with Wilmer? How does she benefit?

  68. 68
    Betty says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Wishing you all that you need to overcome this problem. It seems to require a forever commitment. You have many supporters here cheering you on.

  69. 69
    Amir Khalid says:


  70. 70
    Amir Khalid says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: @SiubhanDuinne:
    Alas, I have no wisdom to share about dealing with alcohol addiction; but I can and do wish you strength and serenity in facing it.

  71. 71
    Steeplejack says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Happy belated birthday from Wednesday! 🎂

  72. 72
    Steeplejack says:


    Sending healing light to you. 💎🙏

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