The Cruelty Is the Point

The House Democrats released a report on what’s being done in our name at the border. CNN has a summary here and links to a PDF of the complete report here.

The report says 18 infants and toddlers under two years old were snatched from their parents and held “for 20 days to half a year.” It details the pointless and cruel ways hundreds of kids have been shuffled around like lost baggage and in some cases held after their parents were deported without them. Here’s the conclusion of the executive summary:

The information obtained by the Committee indicates that the Trump Administration’s decision to separate thousands of babies, toddlers, and children from their parents and put them in government custody for months or years is causing immense suffering. This staff report provides numerous case studies that illustrate their trauma in stark terms. These child separations were not required by law and were not in the best interest of the children. Instead, the policy of separating children from their parents appears to be a deliberate, unnecessary, and cruel choice by President Trump and his Administration.

There are horrifying new details in the report, but we’ve known about the abuse for a long time. We’ve also known Trump uses family separation as a “deterrent” for a long time, and there was extensive coverage of the child camps in recent weeks.

Despite these facts, Trump’s approval rating ticked up slightly. He’s still historically unpopular, having never cracked 50% approval in a reputable poll despite a strong economy, etc. But still, somewhere north of 40% of our fellow citizens think he’s doing a good job, child caging and all.

The cruelty is the point with Trump, and the same must be said of anyone who approves of him. They’re either enjoying the spectacle of pain and heartache inflicted on desperate people, or their indifference amounts to a depravity in its own right. Shameful.






84 replies
  1. 1
    Anonymous At Work says:

    As someone who studies and works professionally with the aftermath of ALL 13 Nuremberg Trials, including the Judges’ Trial, we aren’t *quite* there *yet*. But referral to The Hague is not illegitimate. And “just following orders” did not work at Nuremberg and won’t work here. “Someone worse would have taken over” likewise feels like a defense that might work in US Courts but not ICJ.
    Worth noting about the Judges’ Trial is that the lawyers were found guilty of applying inhumane laws that were legally and properly passed. Technical legality did not save them.

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  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    The cruelty is the point with Trump, and the same must be said of anyone who approves of him. They’re either enjoying the spectacle of pain and heartache inflicted on desperate people, or their indifference amounts to a depravity in its own right. Shameful.

    I have nothing in common with these people. Don’t ask me to think about it. If you are ok with this, then phuck you. Period.

    Every Democrat should have come out of their mouths:

    Trump 2020: Cruelty is the point

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  3. 3
    TenguPhule says:

    No “Look forward, not back.”

    Some crimes can’t be forgiven or forgotten.

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  4. 4
    TenguPhule says:

    @Anonymous At Work:

    As someone who studies and works professionally with the aftermath of ALL 13 Nuremberg Trials, including the Judges’ Trial, we aren’t *quite* there *yet*

    America in 2019, ladies and germs.

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  5. 5
    MisterForkbeard says:

    I think the uptick in approval ratings was due to his July 4th shenanigans.

    Expectations were set that it would be really bad, a giant campaign stunt where he attacked democrats and the press. Instead, it was a boring campaign stunt where he gave a terrible speech and wasted a bunch of time and money. That became “presidential” and a success in the media. And then the fluffing starts.

    But basically, any time there’s not a spotlight on the Trump Fuckup Of The Week, his approval numbers go back to being in the low 40s again. Because there’s a good 5 or 6% of the population that wants to love him but sometimes is too embarrassed to admit it.

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  6. 6
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I am baffled and frustrated by the lumpenmittel’s collective yawn about Russia actively interfering in our elections and a President who actively covered it up.

    I am sickened by their apparent same reaction to the deliberate torture of children.

    @MisterForkbeard: I hope you’re right about his polls, and I fear you’re right about this:

    there’s a good 5 or 6% of the population that wants to love him but sometimes is too embarrassed to admit it.

    “I wish he would stop tweeting…” is the voting version of “I don’t have a racist bone in my body… but…”
    Someone said yesterday they live in a respsectable blue area– which I take to mean overwhelmingly white, upper-middle-class suburb– where people are starting to say, well I don’t like him but the economy, which means the stock market, is doing great!

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  7. 7
    donnah says:

    We decent human beings with brains and hearts are appalled and outraged about Trump’s actions across the board. He is cruel and mean and abuses his power every day. He’s a rapist, thief, con man, and liar, and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

    The problem is that his party supports him, his followers support him, and the court system is already tilted in their favor. Mitch McConnell rules the Senate with an iron fist and he matches or exceeds Trump’s malicious cruelty. And the Republicans are okay with that.

    The question is then how do we win? We face gerrymandered districts, voter suppression, and billions of dollars in Trump campaign money. We know that taking Trump down is going to be a fight and again, Republicans are going to be as motivated to vote next year as we are, because they love this abomination of a president. He pisses off Liberals and he hates minorities. He’s their hero.

    I will do my best to volunteer and donate to the Democrats. But it’s not going to be a cakewalk. It’s literally a battle of good vs evil.

    ReplyReply
  8. 8
    Gator90 says:

    “Despite these facts”

    Betty, although you’re one of the smartest commentators I’ve had the pleasure of reading, I’m afraid you misspelled “because of.”

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    bemused says:

    @rikyrah:

    They are also motivated by making money, lots of money, in any way they can get away with. If they can become wealthy or even more wealthy they may be now and punish others as cruelly as possible at the same time, they will have achieved their life dreams

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  10. 10
    low-tech cyclist says:

    @Anonymous At Work:

    As someone who studies and works professionally with the aftermath of ALL 13 Nuremberg Trials, including the Judges’ Trial, we aren’t *quite* there *yet*.

    But almost, I guess.

    If we succeed in kicking this SOB out of the White House, we’d damn well better not have another round of “look forward, not back.”

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    Lex says:

    True fact. And people support him because he hates whom they hate.

    ReplyReply
  12. 12
    rikyrah says:

    ABC News Politics (@ABCPolitics) Tweeted:
    LATEST: Nearly a dozen new alleged Epstein victims have come forward, @ABC News has learned.

    Attorneys representing other alleged victims in the Epstein case say they’ve been contacted by the women, @TomLlamasABC reports. https://t.co/563ENVeDcS https://t.co/axXq57Lx3U https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1149722760362561538?s=17

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    TenguPhule says:

    ‘She is not a racist:’ Trump defends Pelosi in spat with Ocasio-Cortez

    JFC, talk about the kiss of death to Nancy Pelosi.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    rikyrah says:

    @donnah:

    I will do my best to volunteer and donate to the Democrats. But it’s not going to be a cakewalk. It’s literally a battle of good vs evil.

    It truly is…and people need to see it that way.

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    jc says:

    How to deal with Trump: see Kamala Harris interview yesterday with Maddow —
    https://crooksandliars.com/2019/07/kamala-harris-trump-he-failed-perform

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  16. 16
    rikyrah says:

    “CBC leaders are fretting that Justice Democrats may target other black lawmakers in the coming weeks and months, including Reps. Yvette Clarke (D-N.Y.), Joyce Beatty (D-Ohio), Emanual Cleaver (D-Mo.) and Anthony Brown (D-Md.). Brown said the group has been making calls in his district, actively trying to recruit a challenger to run against him.”

    Like I said before, I have a problem with the Justice Democrats targeting CBC Members,who, as a collective, are among the most left in the Congress, and always have been since their founding.

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  17. 17
    Adam L Silverman says:

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  18. 18
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: As both Cheryl and I have written about on the front page, there was a long term, very effective Russian active measures and influence operation regarding white American Christian conservatives. Especially Evangelicals, Charismatics, and Fundamentalists.

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  19. 19
    TenguPhule says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think it might be a good idea to audit the border patrol’s official armory lists. Because I’m pretty damn sure lots of things have gone wandering from it.

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  20. 20
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    NEW: Border Patrol chief Carla Provost was a member of secret Facebook group https://t.co/a31VuU7Jns

    — Ryan Devereaux (@rdevro) July 12, 2019

    How did THIS not come out with the initial stories about it.
    But, it DOES explain why there’s been no disciplining of officers.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    rikyrah says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: As both Cheryl and I have written about on the front page, there was a long term, very effective Russian active measures and influence operation regarding white American Christian conservatives. Especially Evangelicals, Charismatics, and Fundamentalists

    I didn’t know Cheryl did, but, I do know that you have written about the Christian Right angle.

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    Eljai says:

    @rikyrah: The just us dems have no clue about how to forge relationships and alliances to, you know, actually win elections.

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    Brachiator says:

    I have no words. It’s even hard to read about this stuff. I heard parts of a story about how teenage refugees are tormented by some of the guards, and too frightened to ask for anything.

    Trump gives his approval for sadism with his cowardly “get tough” attitude.

    ReplyReply
  24. 24
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    How can the House Democrats have written a report about this? People keep telling me that they are doing nothing except actively not impeaching Trump.

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    Ksmiami says:

    @TenguPhule: the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

    ReplyReply
  26. 26

    @Omnes Omnibus: Yes, they need to do nothing else but impeaching Trump, even though it the Senate either wouldn’t take it up or acquit or the vote would fail in the House. Nothing else matters.

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    germy says:

    Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.
    — Werner Twertzog (@WernerTwertzog) August 23, 2017

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    rikyrah says:

    With the Justice Dems and AOC pissing off Black lawmakers in the Congressional Black Caucus, hard to see how this ends well for them. The CBC has rightly determined that Justice Dems disproportionately target Black lawmakers. JD is funded by elite white progressives…big problem pic.twitter.com/2QRBxWeeXv

    — Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    Mike in DC says:

    Y’know, polling of Latinx public opinion on this and Trump would be pretty helpful right now. Just saying.

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    The white highly educated, wealthy left funding the Justice Dems trying to remove Black Dems Congressmen from the south (but across the country really) is the party tension I was talking about this morning. As Black south gets more power over primary this tension will increase

    — Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  31. 31

    @Mike in DC: There’s a good bit of IGMFY in the Latino community.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    They understand that black Dems are a moderating force in the party because of history and geography and they want to weaken the CBC by trying to make “true progressivism” race neutral in order to shift things left. But that won’t work because of history and geography.

    — Corey Richardson (@vexedinthecity) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    Ruviana says:

    An example was reported right here on BJ–“The Wedge Issue of Torturing Children” By a dramatic margin Republicans really don’t care about what happens to these brown children from Not America.

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    Brachiator says:

    @germy:

    Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.
    — Werner Twertzog (@WernerTwertzog) August 23, 2017

    Wow. Harsh. Maybe something to it. I had to look at the Twitter comments. Not much right wing nonsense, but some thoughtful responses. Some believe that this level of hate could never happen in the US.

    I liked this one comment.

    Sontag: 10% of any pop. is cruel, no matter what…10% is merciful, no matter what…remaining 80% can be moved in either direction.

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
  36. 36
    Millard Filmore says:

    There is a comment over at EmptyWheel that provides a new measuring stick. Paraphrasing Judge Sullivan’s attitude about the old plea deal for Flynn:

    “I looked at all the filings, including the classified stuff that no one else has seen, and you’re bringing me a Jeffrey Epstein-level plea agreement.”

    Jeffrey Epstein-level plea deal.

    https://www.emptywheel.net/2019/07/11/sidney-powell-believes-she-can-bullshit-emmet-sullivan-at-no-risk-to-her-client/#comment-798167

    ReplyReply
  37. 37
    rikyrah says:

    Making enemies of Black voters and the CBC is political malpractice if you have statewide aspirations or national aspirations in the Dem Party. AOC and the Justice Dems seem determined to do just that, and to reduce the power of Black lawmakers. Won’t end well for them!

    — Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Kent says:

    @rikyrah:

    @donnah:

    I will do my best to volunteer and donate to the Democrats. But it’s not going to be a cakewalk. It’s literally a battle of good vs evil.

    It truly is…and people need to see it that way.

    Yes….

    This is going to be the biggest fucking barn-burner of an election in any of our lifetimes. The orcs are truly at the door and they are literally going to burn the place down if we don’t stop them. Personally I don’t give a flying fuck about ‘medicare for all’ vs ‘public option’ and that sort of inside baseball stuff that will be determined by the 50th or 60th least liberal member of the Senate and not the President anyway. I’m looking for the candidate who can gut and dismember Trump during the election, and then who has the guts to root out every last bit of rot that has taken hold within the executive branch in the past four years including reversing every damn regulation and executive order. Trump tried to erase Obama’s legacy. The next president better damn well work 24/7 reversing Trump’s legacy and appoint the lieutenants to get that job done.

    So far Harris looks to me like the toughest of the candidates available. And for that she has my tentative support. Biden looks the weakest, followed by Wilmer. Neither of whom I can really see standing face to face with Trump and standing him down.

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
    rikyrah says:

    This is what I mean about @AOC and others not having enough experience. The CBC and other black institutions (like the NAACP, HBCUs, etc.) aren’t “ideological” and don’t bend to threats. Coming after them is akin to attacking black people writ large. Big mistake on their part. https://t.co/ZSEuXdNarc

    — Corey Richardson (@vexedinthecity) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  40. 40

    @Kent:

    followed by Wilmer.

    The Patron Saint of Burlington will shout and wag his finger at Trump and Trump will wither under the pressure.

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    Jay says:

    "The GOP…are fully aware of the Proud Boys as an allied faction: “They don’t care,” the operative explained. “Staff are to treat it like a coalition they can’t talk about."' A must read. https://t.co/vRwzBTzudq pic.twitter.com/hgID2QUP9C— It's Going Down (@IGD_News) July 12, 2019

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  42. 42
    laura says:

    @donnah: Hey Donnah, don’t leave out the media MSM and social media and hate radio.
    And then there’s the unlimited gobs of our taxpayer dollars. Private prisons and detention centers squeezing out profits by denying care, food, protection from the sadists and pedos hired without background checks.
    And there’s just so damn many of our friends, families and neighbors who have been offered all manner of propaganda and fear who see this as just so much entertainment/punishment/justice/lust.
    The ratcheting goes in one direction – ever tightening, and when they’re done with the current “others” they’ll be looking for more and if not stopped, they come for you and I.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    White progressives often call for a tear down of the Democratic Party and its institutions and I think that is not something Black voters are necessarily attracted to, given how Democrats have helped them protect hard fought civil rights gains over past half century. https://t.co/lLljTAu4wb

    — Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Gravenstone says:

    @Brachiator:

    Some believe that this level of hate could never happen in the US.

    So these kindly souls were asleep in their American history class when it covered that one time when roughly half the states elected to secede and go to war with the balance of those states that chose to remain? That particular act has resonated in this nation ever since. Those sorts of hatreds don’t die, although they do lead to much misery and death going forward.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: They probably had to work back from her posting nym and cross correlate with other social media posts to determine who it was.

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @rikyrah: Cheryl did. She’s on top of it. Which is why we’re lucky to have her.

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    matt says:

    People are so fucking stupid. Like they think innocuous-looking and attractive people can’t be evil. Sure, if you only watch movies and know nothing about human history.

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    rikyrah says:

    Good reporting here on a very bad situation in the House majority. I had not fully appreciated just how hurtful AOC’s aide has been to veteran African-American Reps who’ve long fought for civil rights. He should apologize. https://t.co/OuIocFySzf

    — Tom Watson (@tomwatson) July 12, 2019

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  49. 49
    smintheus says:

    I see that at Netroots Nation the Teamsters are dredging up again the canard that the losses of PA, MI and WI were due to working people abandoning the Democrats because the Dems didn’t do anything for them. So stupid.

    From my vantage in PA, a core element of Trump’s victory is not being discussed: the asshole factor. Many assholes who almost never vote (‘it only encourages them har har’) turned out and even registered in 2016 because they had a chance to vote for a total asshole like themselves. A large part of their assholery is racist, but it goes beyond that to embracing a total philosophy of assholishness. Enought potential Dem voters assumed that Clinton had the election in the bag to make the asshole surge decisive. You can’t suss out what Democrats need to correct in 2020 unless you acknowledge that you can’t appeal to reason with people who only vote in order to express how unreasonable they are.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    Kent says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Wilmer’s performance on Rachel Maddow a few nights ago was absolutely pathetic. She asked him how he was going to pass any of his agenda in the face of McConnell in the Senate and his answer? “We are going to go to Kentucky and mobilize the 99% to come out and D E M A N D that McConnell and the GOP listen to them”

    Really? That’s your plan? To go to Kentucky and hold a rally and McConnell is going to wilt in fear?

    It is his fucking answer for everything. The 99% are going to rise up and demand it and it will just happen. By magic.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    Bill Arnold says:

    I’ll quibble technically a bit with the post title; Fear is the point. Cruelty, especially unpredictable cruelty (at a local level), is a tool for creating and maintaining fear.
    Do not forgive them, or their enablers!

    ReplyReply
  52. 52

    @smintheus: I think you’re on to something, we’ve been focusing on the Obama to Trump vote; I’ve long felt that that’s not a significant number of folk. More important is the, as you call it, asshole vote. Those people that were non-voters or infrequent voters that Trump got to turn out, and needs for his re-elect. Trump knows this and that’s why he keeps on doing his rallies to keep them interested. Whether it’s just assholishness or it’s Trump’s an outsider*, or he’s a successful bidnessman**, whatever; it got these folk out to vote for him.

    *He ain’t now.
    **This was never the case, but he played one on the TV machine.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    rikyrah says:

    New 2020 South Carolina poll from Fox News just out:

    Biden 35%
    Sanders 14%
    Harris 12%
    Warren 5%
    Booker 3%
    Buttigieg 2%
    Everyone else 1% or less

    — Ryan Struyk (@ryanstruyk) July 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  54. 54

    @Kent: Yeah, I’m still waiting for the millions outside the Turtle’s office to stop the caging of children, get better judges, medicare for all….

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    rikyrah says:

    @smintheus:

    I see that at Netroots Nation the Teamsters are dredging up again the canard that the losses of PA, MI and WI were due to working people abandoning the Democrats because the Dems didn’t do anything for them. So stupid.

    Once again….
    The number of REGULAR DEMOCRATIC VOTERS DENIED THE FRANCHISE DUE TO VOTER SUPPRESSION….

    was AT LEAST 3 times the margin of Dolt45’s ‘ victory’ in each of those states.

    MAKE IT SO THAT OUR REGULAR VOTERS CAN VOTE, and we don’t need to care about anyone else.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    smintheus says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I know it’s a phenomenon. I talked to some of these assholes in PA in 2016, determined to vote for Trump, people who in the past when I canvassed around here would laugh at my gullibility for thinking anybody’s vote would matter. At the polls in my rural town I could see several such assholes waiting in line when I voted.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57
    rikyrah says:

    @Millard Filmore:

    “I looked at all the filings, including the classified stuff that no one else has seen, and you’re bringing me a Jeffrey Epstein-level plea agreement.”

    Ouch

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    smintheus says:

    @rikyrah: I agree completely; we have to turn out our own voters and not on people who are beyond redemption.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I think the uptick in approval is a statistical phantom requiring no explanation. Look at 538’s aggregates– any motion there is microscopic. There was one Washington Post poll that they made a big deal out of. Articles trying to explain the causes of the movement in one newspaper’s poll are always worth ignoring.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    Jay says:

    @germy:

    Nuff said? pic.twitter.com/HkQ79VGv2l— Brunswick1961 (@brunswick1961) July 8, 2019

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  61. 61
    Barry says:

    @Anonymous At Work: ““Someone worse would have taken over” likewise feels like a defense that might work in US Courts but not ICJ.”

    Of course; a corrupt system which *wants* such things will excuse them.

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Brachiator:

    Dear America: You are waking up, as Germany once did, to the awareness that 1/3 of your people would kill another 1/3, while 1/3 watches.
    — Werner Twertzog (@WernerTwertzog) August 23, 2017

    Fuck the endless Hilter mems, This happened before during the Woodrow Wilson Admin.

    https://youtu.be/hLiI6kXZkZI

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Kent:

    This is going to be the biggest fucking barn-burner of an election in any of our lifetimes. The orcs are truly at the door and they are literally going to burn the place down if we don’t stop them. Personally I don’t give a flying fuck about ‘medicare for all’ vs ‘public option’ and that sort of inside baseball stuff that will be determined by the 50th or 60th least liberal member of the Senate and not the President anyway. I’m looking for the candidate who can gut and dismember Trump during the election, and then who has the guts to root out every last bit of rot that has taken hold within the executive branch in the past four years including reversing every damn regulation and executive order. Trump tried to erase Obama’s legacy. The next president better damn well work 24/7 reversing Trump’s legacy and appoint the lieutenants to get that job done.

    So far Harris looks to me like the toughest of the candidates available.

    You are my brother from another mother.

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    Brachiator says:

    @Kent:

    It is his fucking answer for everything. The 99% are going to rise up and demand it and it will just happen. By magic.

    I wonder if Wilmer’s idea of Democratic Socialism, or whatever it is he believes, is on some permanent Grass Roots movement displacing Congress. I don’t get the idea that he sees himself as leader of the Democratic Party should he magically win the presidency.

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    Jay says:

    Journalist Manuel Duran who was arrested by local police and later detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) last year was released from ICE custody, according to his attorneys.

    According to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which has represented him in court, Duran was arrested in April 2018 while covering a protest in Memphis, Tenn., and had spent 465 days in jail. He had previously reported on alleged law enforcement cooperation with ICE.

    https://thehill.com/latino/452818-reporter-manuel-duran-released-from-ice-custody

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  66. 66
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: oh, those people. Those people!

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    Kent says:

    @Brachiator: Honestly I think he is exactly like Trump in that he doesn’t truly believe he is ever going to win and so doesn’t have to actually have real answers thought out for real problems. Wilmer’s “The 99% will just rise up” is simply the lefty version of Trump’s “We will have the best health care plan in the world as soon as we repeal Obamacare” nonsense. Neither of them are remotely prepared for actual governance. Wilmer is building a movement and not actually expecting to win the presidency and govern. Although to what end I’m not quite sure.

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  68. 68
    Brachiator says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:

    Fuck the endless Hilter mems, This happened before during the Woodrow Wilson Admin.

    George Will paints Wilson as the worst modern president ever, in terms of magnifying the effect of the imperial presidency. Will whines that Goldwater would have been the great corrective. Some of the comments to that YouTube clip also lean in that direction.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69

    @Kent: Glorious revolution, of course.

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  70. 70
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator:

    Wilson was a horror for a lot of people, despite his progressive label. Far worse than what Trump has been able to do so far.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    Mike in DC says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Perhaps. But I want to know how to both pump up the turnout and get us to 75 to 80 percent support. It puts a lot of states in play if we do.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Kent:

    It is his fucking answer for everything. The 99% are going to rise up and demand it and it will just happen. By magic.

    And you know what? His most rabid followers, I think, also believe this. I remember being at the Colorado State Democratic Assembly in 2016 (this state went, pretty narrowly as I recall, for Sanders), and just being staggered/offended/struck with hilarity all at once at the T-shirts I saw with the theme of Sanders cast as Gandalf or Dumbledore or Obi-Wan Kenobi, ffs. “How are you going to get your agenda passed, O Great White Wizard with the accent on the ‘White’?” “By MAAAAAAAAGIC, of course!”

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    Brachiator says:

    @Kent:

    Honestly I think he is exactly like Trump in that he doesn’t truly believe he is ever going to win and so doesn’t have to actually have real answers thought out for real problems

    I don’t know. I think that Wilmer believes his schtick. And if he doesn’t think he will win, why keep running and insisting that the nomination was stolen from him in 2016?

    And it looks like his hard core supporters are going to be jerks if their Dear Leader doesn’t make it this time.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74

    @Miss Bianca: BS needs to go down in the NH primary. If he loses there it will be hard for him to recover.

    ReplyReply
  75. 75

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Glorious revolution

    aka, Break Shit.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    Brachiator says:

    @Baud:

    Wilson was a horror for a lot of people, despite his progressive label. Far worse than what Trump has been able to do so far.

    Trump is just getting started.

    Trump’s nativism and raw racism is very much like Wilson. I haven’t read a lot of Wilson’s speeches. Was he as openly and nakedly racist toward non-white people as Trump?

    ReplyReply
  77. 77

    @Mike in DC: It’s not just turnout, a good number of Latinos that have lived here a while(either immigrant or native born) don’t care or are hostile to immigration. As I said, IGMFY.

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    Baud says:

    @Brachiator:

    Worse. Of course, the country as a whole was far more racist.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79

    @Brachiator:

    George Will paints Wilson as the worst modern president ever

    For George Will the 16th Amendment is enough to make Wilson the worst President, all else is window dressing.

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    rikyrah says:

    @Brachiator:

    Wilson was a stone cold racist who also put his racism into public policy

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: No, bring in William of Orange.

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    zhena gogolia says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I’m praying on that.

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    debbie says:

    @Brachiator:

    Trump is just getting started.

    I’ve been inwardly raging all day against what’s uncovered in this report and the impending raids this weekend. I think it only fair that Trump, as a second generation immigrant, immediately self-deport.

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    Brachiator says:

    @rikyrah:

    Wilson was a stone cold racist who also put his racism into public policy

    Yep. Wilson also exported racism in the US occupation of Haiti. Many of the officers were Southerners. They exploited and helped exacerbate the noxious racist colorism that bedeviled Haitian society.

    ReplyReply

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