Swiftly Taking To His Feet

Brave President Donald ran away:

President Trump on Thursday said he is no longer seeking to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census, likely ending a contentious legal and political standoff over the decennial survey.

Instead Trump said he is ordering every federal agency to give the Commerce Department records on the numbers of citizens and noncitizens, including databases from the Homeland Security Department and the Social Security Administration.

Since the whole point of the exercise was to intimidate persons from answering the Census, so who gives a shit which agencies he asks to give him a wild-ass guess about the number of citizens. He lost, the end.

(Sorry to step on the other two posts but I wanted everyone to have a celebration thread.)






237 replies
  1. 1
    JPL says:

    Pretty much the ninth circuit said that trump can stop funding planned parenthood is more important.

    ReplyReply
  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    @JPL:
    Just saw that😠😠😠

    ReplyReply
  3. 3
    jl says:

    Reposted from the previous thread. But will take more skill than Trumpsters have to get this past Roberts, who is clearly giving them hints on how to get it done, but he gets no help from them They have ‘green lantern’ theory of John Roberts? Russians had the same problem in 2016, but they had more room for maneuver.

    @joshtpm
    Critical Point: GOPs want all residents counted for getting House seats and electoral votes and federal money. But they want districts based on citizenship alone. So get all the goodies that goes with higher population but keep the electoral power outside the cities.
    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1149436492428849152

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  4. 4
    TenguPhule says:

    ordering every federal agency to give the Commerce Department records on the numbers of citizens and noncitizens, including databases from the Homeland Security Department and the Social Security Administration.

    I’m sorry, this isn’t exactly much better from a personal data security point of view.

    I can see this being abused.

    ReplyReply
  5. 5
    TenguPhule says:

    According to the June 20 decision, the rule was a “reasonable interpretation” of Title X, and supported the government’s “important policy interest” in ensuring that taxpayer dollars not fund or subsidize abortions.

    This a fucking bad comedy.

    ReplyReply
  6. 6
    jl says:

    @TenguPhule: I see endless losing battles in the courts for the Trumpsters. It’s better than Trump trying to force a complete disruption of the 2020 Census through lawless executive action.

    Census can make a much stronger case that they already do about the best job that can be done in estimating the numbers of citizens and noncitizens in all sorts of places, given the problem on non-response that such a question causes in many communities. The data Trump wants from other agencies are mostly useful for doing dirty stuff, not increasing the accuracy of the count for apportionment or redistricting to count PERSONS. Trump surrendered on Census, and pursues a path that is even less likely to succeed. So, a good thing happened today.

    Edit: a maze of laws prevent this kind of inter-agency sharing, and every little move by Trumpsters will get them in a new legal battle.

    ReplyReply
  7. 7
    Another Scott says:

    Gillibrand hasn’t been getting much traction yet, but she’s not an empty suit. Twitter:

    Amanda Golden Verified account @amandawgolden

    A poignant moment at @SenGillibrand’s Youngstown, OH roundtable occurred when a white woman holding her baby asked her about how Dems talk about white privilege while she is still struggling. Gillibrand took a beat, and then answered the woman’s question.

    Full exchange below:

    1:52 PM – 11 Jul 2019

    The full exchange is a stupid text graphic rather than real text, but click on it and read the whole thing. It’s not long.

    We’ve got a lot of good candidates…

    [ via LOLGOP ]

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  8. 8
    Yutsano says:

    @jl: And the census is forbidden from making population models. It can only use the numbers as counted. Now what OTHER people do with that information is on them, as it’s all public. But to think the census can just account for undercounts is totally ignoring the mandated numbers only.

    ReplyReply
  9. 9
    debbie says:

    Can’t a lawsuit be filed against this executive order?

    ReplyReply
  10. 10
    trollhattan says:

    @Another Scott:
    She tees that one up. Good response, senator.

    Noticed this in a newer thread:

    NBC/WSJ poll (among Dem primary voters/caucusgoers):

    Biden 26%
    Warren 19%
    Harris 13%
    Sanders 13%
    Buttigieg 7%
    Yang 2%
    O’Rourke 2%

    ReplyReply
  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @Another Scott:

    That was nice. Good on her.

    ReplyReply
  12. 12
    jl says:

    @Yutsano: They are forbidden to make population models for the official decennial Census counts used for reapportionment and other governemental purposes.

    They use models for all sorts of other things, like producing annual population estimates, etc., but those estimates can’t be used for some purposes.

    Edit: Census and other statistical experts have made a good case that the counts for persons in decennial Census could be greatly improved by statistical modelling. I have mixed feelings about it. In theory, yes it definitely would if done in good faith, but it’s stats, Jack, so probably too much room for fiddling if bad faith actors get in the mix.

    ReplyReply
  13. 13
    trollhattan says:

    O/T this day fifty years ago, just before Apollo 11’s launch, David Bowie launched Major Tom.

    ReplyReply
  14. 14
    Chris says:

    @jl:

    Slave state logic again.

    “We want our black people to be counted when it comes to the vote, but we don’t want them allowed to actually cast votes…”

    ReplyReply
  15. 15
    hells littlest angel says:

    I know Lawrence O’Donnell is not everyone’s cup of pomposi-tea, but I look forward to him gloating over his prediction that Trump would back down.

    ReplyReply
  16. 16
    debbie says:

    @JPL:

    Hey, I was catching up on the morning thread and saw your post about Trump’s tweets, so I checked them out. This one caught my eye:

    …The Fake News is not as important, or as powerful, as Social Media. They have lost tremendous credibility since that day in November, 2016, that I came down the escalator with the person who was to become your future First Lady. When I ultimately leave office in six…— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 11, 2019

    Jackass announced in JUNE, not NOVEMBER. How does someone not remember that???

    ReplyReply
  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @trollhattan:

    Nice. Beto should probably pack it in.

    ReplyReply
  18. 18
    hells littlest angel says:

    @debbie: But at least he got the year right. Oh … never mind.

    ReplyReply
  19. 19
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: and offer to give a few others rides home since he’s going anyway

    ReplyReply
  20. 20
    ruemara says:

    I felt we’d win on the census and lose on the ACA.

    ReplyReply
  21. 21
    Luthe says:

    @jl: Also, as much as I love the ACS (the Census’ statistically modeled cousin), it starts turning to shit once you get down below a certain population size. As in, margins of error greater than the estimated population. So while undercounts are terrible, modeling is not necessarily the answer.

    ReplyReply
  22. 22
    jl says:

    TPM story suggests that one reason for the move is to focus more on counts of undocumented (‘illegal’) alien residents rather than citizens versus non-citizens. Not sure that the proposed Census question would have addressed documented status. Barr is saying that counting undocumented residents has some further legal and Constitutional justification. Maybe the idea of trying to follow Roberts’ advice to cook up another reason, but one that was not patently ridiculous was just hopeless. So plan is to cook up new lies and fantastical meanings divined in the Constitution (that plainly says something different) and try those out at new legal venues.

    @joshtpm
    Trump’s census “cave” is not really a cave, because he announced that his administration is going full steam ahead in its efforts to undermine the political representation of immigrant communities
    https://twitter.com/Tierney_Megan/status/1149442512467177472

    Tweet has link to article.

    ReplyReply
  23. 23
    germy says:

    @trollhattan:

    O/T this day fifty years ago, just before Apollo 11’s launch, David Bowie launched Major Tom.

    If I recall correctly, the song was turned down by George Martin at Parlophone.

    ReplyReply
  24. 24

    @debbie: And it was June 2015.

    ReplyReply
  25. 25
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    “It doesn’t take away from you at all.”

    Wish that had been emphasized from the very beginning.

    ReplyReply
  26. 26
    debbie says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Right. I didn’t see that in my shock over his getting the month wrong, but it makes sense now. In his mind, he’s so magnificent that he announced and ascended the throne on the very same day!

    ReplyReply
  27. 27
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Another Scott: I read Gillibrand’s answer (had to squint) and while I liked it, I think back to the conversation I overheard a couple of weeks ago in the waiting room of my kid’s speech therapist.

    Every Tuesday afternoon while Ohio Son works on correcting his lisp, I involuntary eavesdrop on two very tattooed and overweight moms who trade notes on all aspects of their lives. They are from the working class exurbs, and one of them really needs to declare bankruptcy (like I said, all aspects of their lives).

    They’ve heard explanations like Gillibrand’s and can repeat them pretty acurately (to my surprise and I admit that says something about me), and they aren’t buying any of it.

    ReplyReply
  28. 28
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    Of course the pronouncement that his agencies can get the information from other means and cover “90%” of the population is absolute horseshit, because if that was the case he would have already done it, he wouldn’t have to have gone through the whole court cases all the way up to the Supreme Court bullshit. His supporters have to be completely brain dead to believe his colossal back down isn’t just that.

    ReplyReply
  29. 29
    germy says:

    A cabbage, a fox, a male legislator who refuses to be alone with a woman at any time, and a woman just trying to do her job are trying to cross a river. In what order should you move them across?

    — Alexandra Petri (@petridishes) July 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  30. 30
    TenguPhule says:

    Pelosi wants deal to resolve budget impasse before August recess

    The House speaker said she did not want to delay action until after Labor Day, heeding warnings from Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin that the government could fall behind on its bills by early September.

    Oh fuck, this is a recipe for disaster.

    I don’t expect a good bargain to come out with little less then a month to go.

    ReplyReply
  31. 31
    ruemara says:

    @Ohio Mom: That’s because in their hearts they know white people are the real victims and they love their victimhood.

    ReplyReply
  32. 32
    Mike in NC says:

    Trump on Thursday said he is no longer seeking to add a citizenship question to the 2020 Census

    Why should anybody believe that? Fat Bastard is a pathological liar. He’ll change his mind ten more times before Sunday.

    ReplyReply
  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    No Democrat is going to win over the majority of white working class people. Or white people generally.

    ReplyReply
  34. 34
    Baud says:

    @Mike in NC:

    Logistics.

    ReplyReply
  35. 35
    debbie says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Some people will never let go of their victimhood. It’s more meaningful to them than any resolution offered to them.

    ReplyReply
  36. 36
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @debbie:

    Jackass announced in JUNE, not NOVEMBER. How does someone not remember that???

    And it was June 2015, not 2016. How does jackass not even remember the YEAR?

    EDIT: Should have scrolled down to Jim, Foolish Literalist @ #19 before commenting!

    ReplyReply
  37. 37

    @debbie: Sparrows and curtain rods.

    ReplyReply
  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @ruemara:

    Roberts has already saved the ACA twice. I don’t know why he would turn around and strike it down now on the dumbest theory yet.

    ReplyReply
  39. 39
  40. 40
    germy says:

    The founder of Students For Trump is being interviewed right now on the CBS Evening News.

    ReplyReply
  41. 41
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    Why?

    ReplyReply
  42. 42
    germy says:

    @Baud: He claims conservative voices are being censored on social media like twitter, fazebook, etc.

    It was part of a segment on drumpf’s social media summit or whatever it was.

    ReplyReply
  43. 43
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    EDIT: Should have scrolled down to Jim, Foolish Literalist @ #19 before commenting!

    EDIT THE SECOND: Should have noticed that I actually meant to reference hells littlest angel @ #18, not J,FL @ #19!

    ReplyReply
  44. 44
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    Thanks.

    ReplyReply
  45. 45
    debbie says:

    These fuckers.

    WASHINGTON — Former NFL star Colin Kaepernick did not look like himself in a fundraising email that was sent by the National Republican Congressional Committee on Wednesday. The message included a picture of Kaepernick that appeared noticeably altered to make his skin darker, an attack ad tactic that has been used before and is considered by many as racist.

    One Democratic operative who saw the NRCC’s Kaepernick ad described it as “disgusting.”

    “House Republicans are running on racism, plain and simple. It’s disgusting, it’s offensive and it should be fireable, but there’s no accountability in the Republican Party,” the operative said.

    The NRCC is one of the main Hill committees run by the two major political parties. It is dedicated to electing Republicans to the House of Representatives. The message the group sent to supporters advertised a “Betsy Ross mug” and referenced Kaepernick’s opposition to the slavery-era flag.

    “WHO DO YOU STAND WITH? DONALD TRUMP AND THE BETSY ROSS FLAG OR ANTI-AMERICAN FLAG COLIN KAEPERNICK?” the message asked.

    Pictures of President Trump and Kaepernick appear side-by-side in the message. The photo of Kaepernick appears to have been altered to make his skin several shades darker than it is in original copies of the image. In an email to Yahoo News, NRCC communications director Chris Pack insisted, “The photo was not darkened.”

    ReplyReply
  46. 46
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @germy: Why? What’s up with the media’s fixation on Trump supporters? They’re not the majority of Americans.

    ReplyReply
  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump’s nominee for top military job says he won’t be ‘intimidated into making stupid decisions’

    2 months after confirmation: “Intimidated into making a stupid decision.”

    ReplyReply
  48. 48
    Patricia Kayden says:

    @debbie: And this is why I don’t understand Black Republicans. The GOP’s hatred of Black people is blatant and strident. I could never support such a bigoted political party.

    ReplyReply
  49. 49
    MomSense says:

    @JPL:

    I’m fucking furious – my kids are burning up my text messages about this. They are already planning more fundraisers for PP.

    ReplyReply
  50. 50
    tobie says:

    @Baud: The poll was of 400 voters nationally, using a likely voter model, and got something like a 6% answer rate with over 50% identifying as liberal or very liberal. Just to put that in perspective, in 2018, the major networks decided that state polls had to have a sample of at least 500 voters. CNN recently issued new standards for its polls given how unreliable the whole enterprise has become. This is not to say Beto’s campaign isn’t struggling. But he’s consistently in 6th place and if he has a good debate performance in July could well move up. He recently had a hastily arranged stop in Nashville and was still able to get a crowd over a thousand for a rally on less than 48 hours notice. Why aren’t there calls for Booker, Klobuchar, Castro or Gillibrand to bow out? Ragging on Beto has become so predictable that most people don’t even notice it any longer, but I assure you it’s getting a lot of us mighty pissed.

    ReplyReply
  51. 51
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @debbie:

    The message included a picture of Kaepernick that appeared noticeably altered to make his skin darker, an attack ad tactic that has been used before and is considered by many as racist.

    When O. J. Simpson was arrested (and holy fuck, that was a quarter-century ago!!), TIME and Newsweek ran identical covers of his mug shot.

    Identical, that is, except in one respect: One of the magazines — I can’t remember which at this late date — noticeably darkened his skin colour. It was pretty blatant, and the magazine took some stick for their art director’s decision.

    ReplyReply
  52. 52
    Baud says:

    @tobie:

    I didn’t see their names, so I didn’t think about them. Gillibrand should bow out. I’m not sure about the others. Beto’s unique problem, I think, is that he has lost ground.

    There’s another debate in July, so maybe he can improve. If he doesn’t make the debate after that with its higher standard, then maybe it’s time.

    ReplyReply
  53. 53
    germy says:

    Epstein’s butler testified under oath that Dershowitz was present when underage girls were around, according to court filings.

    In an interview via Skype, Dershowitz insisted he never saw an underage girl at Epstein’s house, but was worked on by an older lady. Huh?

    “Were there young women in another part of the house giving massages when I wasn’t around? I have no idea of that,” he said.

    “I kept my underwear on during the massage,” Dershowitz went on to stammer. “I don’t like massages particularly.”

    via LGM

    ReplyReply
  54. 54
    The Dangerman says:

    Brave President Donald ran away

    Wait for tomorrow when The Usual Suspects question his manhood tonight on The Usual Channel.

    ReplyReply
  55. 55
    zhena gogolia says:

    @germy:

    Oh, God, once again a Trump-era story that I do not want to hear.

    ReplyReply
  56. 56
    Sebastian says:

    @Another Scott:

    I liked that A LOT.

    ReplyReply
  57. 57

    @debbie:

    “The photo was not darkened.”

    Sure, the entire photo wasn’t darkened; just a curves adjustment layer in Photoshop that darkened the face.

    ReplyReply
  58. 58
    tobie says:

    @Baud: as far as I know, he has qualified already for the third and fourth debates or is one poll shy. Castro, Booker, and Klobuchar have not qualified yet. At some point of course money does the talking for you. Funds dry up and you close shop.

    ReplyReply
  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    was worked on by an older lady

    By older, he means 17½.

    ReplyReply
  60. 60
    MomSense says:

    @germy:

    I am having such a hard time with this because it is bringing up long suppressed memories of modeling as a pre-teen and young teenager in NYC starting in ‘79. I want all of this dirty laundry to be aired but it’s very painful to relive.

    ReplyReply
  61. 61
    Baud says:

    @tobie:

    Ok, thanks for the info. He can stay. :-)

    ReplyReply
  62. 62
    cmorenc says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    @debbie: And this is why I don’t understand Black Republicans. The GOP’s hatred of Black people is blatant and strident. I could never support such a bigoted political party.

    Because the GOP is open to a few hand-picked Uncle Tom types who have culturally and socially adapted to fit in as associate affluent suburban white people. They don’t quite get that their role in the GOP is to be an example of “see, I have a black friend…” (so I can’t be the racist here).

    ReplyReply
  63. 63
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    Ugh. I’m sorry.

    ReplyReply
  64. 64
    rattlemullet says:

    T-rump is and always has bee a coward. Every metric of how men are judged bu integrity he fails!!

    ReplyReply
  65. 65
    germy says:

    @MomSense: I remember NYC in the ’70s. You could probably write a book based on everything you witnessed.

    I’d like to see these alpha pervs face the consequences. That possibility must have been unimaginable to you in ’79.

    ReplyReply
  66. 66
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    Thanks, Baud. I need to check in with my counselor. I’ve been spinning – feeling so anxious.

    ReplyReply
  67. 67
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    I’ve had a bad week. No triggered memories or anything, but something got to me this week.

    Take care of yourself. You are too important.

    ReplyReply
  68. 68
    TenguPhule says:

    U.S. government posts $8 billion deficit in June

    The deficit for the fiscal year to date was $747 billion, compared with $607 billion in the comparable period the year earlier.

    ReplyReply
  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @TenguPhule:

    It why so many old white conservatives are furious at Trump.

    Haha.

    ReplyReply
  70. 70
    TenguPhule says:

    Wall Street banks bailing on troubled U.S. farm sector

    Well this explains a lot.

    In the wake of the U.S. housing meltdown of the late 2000s, JPMorgan Chase & Co hunted for new ways to expand its loan business beyond the troubled mortgage sector.

    The nation’s largest bank found enticing new opportunities in the rural Midwest – lending to U.S. farmers who had plenty of income and collateral as prices for grain and farmland surged.

    JPMorgan grew its farm-loan portfolio by 76 percent, to $1.1 billion, between 2008 and 2015, according to year-end figures, as other Wall Street players piled into the sector. Total U.S. farm debt is on track to rise to $427 billion this year, up from an inflation-adjusted $317 billion a decade earlier and approaching levels seen in the 1980s farm crisis, according to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

    But now – after years of falling farm income and an intensifying U.S.-China trade war – JPMorgan and other Wall Street banks are heading for the exits, according to a Reuters analysis of the farm-loan holdings they reported to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC).

    The agricultural loan portfolios of the nation’s top 30 banks fell by $3.9 billion, to $18.3 billion, between their peak in December 2015 and March 2019, the analysis showed. That’s a 17.5% decline.

    ReplyReply
  71. 71
    MomSense says:

    @germy:

    I was one of the lucky ones because we were well connected but even still I saw enough and experienced enough to find this triggering.

    I could write a book about this. We were very close with the owner and managers of the Russian Tea Room. They had private dining rooms. Things went down there.

    ReplyReply
  72. 72
    Immanentize says:

    Perhaps said above….

    But I see the hastily called social media summit as a talking points confab to discuss how to spin the Trump fail as total pwning of libtards.

    ReplyReply
  73. 73
    Martin says:

    @ruemara: There’s no winning so long as Trump and McConnell have power.

    ReplyReply
  74. 74
    germy says:

    @MomSense: I imagine there are many powerful people who are grateful you haven’t written a book.

    Russian Tea Room? Wasn’t that a Woody Allen hangout?

    ReplyReply
  75. 75
    Ohio Mom says:

    @ruemara: @debbie: While those two women are bigots, they are also right in that they are being squashed by the system. No, of course they don’t experience the oppression that all Black Americans, no matter what their economic standing do, that shouldn’t need to be said.

    I would bet anything they still have family “down home” in Appalachia. Cincinnati was a destination for that huge internal migration. Some made it into the middle class, a good number of families never did and continue to struggle economically generations later.

    I get why they are bitter. Our version of capitalism requires there be poor people and they ended up being among those who fill that role.

    It’s a conundrum no one has the answer to. My point was, least of all Gillibrand. Maybe her answer will resonate with some white middle-class people who are just now coming to understand what white privilege is. That could be useful.

    ReplyReply
  76. 76
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @trollhattan: Wilmer announced today he won’t attend the Netroots Nation presidential forum because he doesn’t want Kos asking him tough questions; to which Kos responded, “[he] goes on Fox, but he’s afraid of ME? Sheesh.”

    ReplyReply
  77. 77
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @ruemara: Well, kinda – it’s because when Those People were in charge (2009-2017) they musta, just musta, messed around with everything to benefit Themselves. Tell them They didn’t & they’ll just say Nuh-uh, They did – because that’s what they would do if they were in charge (cf. current state of affairs) & They ain’t no better, so they musta, just musta done it!

    ReplyReply
  78. 78
    Immanentize says:

    @MomSense:
    Fuckity fuck fuck those motherfuckers.

    I was a part time punk teen running the streets of NYC in the late 70s. Even I got to see what was going down. Really nothing was hidden.

    ReplyReply
  79. 79
    Aleta says:

    @MomSense: 💚💙

    ReplyReply
  80. 80
    debbie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    I remember it being Time Magazine.

    ReplyReply
  81. 81
    germy says:

    The last time Bernie Sanders attended Netroots was 2015, when his speech was disrupted by Black Lives Matters protestors. The senator was not happy about that. Warren always gets an enthusiastic reception there https://t.co/PYhe2BS61X via @thedailybeast— Anthony Zurcher (@awzurcher) July 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  82. 82
    Baud says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    they are also right in that they are being squashed by the system.

    If they’re apathetic, I’m sympathetic.

    If they are voting Republican, then they are the system.

    ReplyReply
  83. 83
    germy says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: His supporters weigh in:

    Good for Bernie. Daily Kos is and has been totally dishonest about Sanders for years. Their unwarranted smearing towards him and his campaign deserves to be ignored and shunned.— Danny Moody (@DannyMoody20) July 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  84. 84
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    Read up on his treatment of Epstein’s victims. This dickhead is a stone cold liar.

    ReplyReply
  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    When did daily kos get better? I haven’t been there regularly since 2010.

    ReplyReply
  86. 86
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @MomSense:

    {{{Hugs, MomSense}}}

    I never modelled, but as a young woman I (briefly) fell for one of those “job interviews” that just happened to take place in a hotel room. Creepy enough.

    ReplyReply
  87. 87
    Martin says:

    @Ohio Mom: I lot of people don’t understand that systems can be non-zero-sum. As in, it’s a completely foreign concept to them. The president is one of those people. So to them, if Democrats are helping black people then they necessarily must be hurting white people.

    I don’t know how you get through that. It’s like trying to explain gravity to someone who is certain that it’s magic.

    ReplyReply
  88. 88
    TenguPhule says:

    A traffic stop turns up whiskey, a gun and a rattlesnake, police say — and that was before they found the uranium.

    When police officers pulled over Stephen Jennings in Guthrie, Oklahoma, on June 26, they searched the car and got a lot more than they bargained for.

    Jennings was pulled over about 11 a.m. after an officer noticed that his car tags were expired, police say. He alerted the officers that there were a few other issues likely to arise: There was a gun in the vehicle, for starters.
    His passenger, Rachael Rivera, was charged with possession of a firearm after a former felony conviction.

    Then, police said, the officers found that the car had been reported stolen and began to dig a little deeper.
    And their discoveries: one bottle of Kentucky Deluxe whiskey and one rattlesnake.
    “So now he’s got a rattlesnake, a stolen vehicle, firearm and somebody under arrest,” Guthrie Police Sgt. Anthony Gibbs told CNN affiliate KFOR.
    Then they found one more thing: a canister of radioactive powdered uranium.

    ReplyReply
  89. 89
    BR says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Not to plug Warren, but I was impressed by her appearance in a tiny town in WV — it’s the sort of place that Dems need to keep the losses down. She got a really warm welcome, way more than I’d ever expect, and given the population of the town most of the people at her event were probably GOP voters. I’m curious to hear what others think of her appearance at rainbow push last week, because that was a totally different audience (demographically, culturally, etc.) and she did better than I expected at connecting (not that I had high expectations). If she can connect to those two diametrically opposed audiences, maybe she’s figuring this whole thing out.

    ReplyReply
  90. 90
    germy says:

    @debbie: I hope the truth about him keeps coming out and coming out, and his sweaty excuses get wetter and wetter, until we see him in an orange jumpsuit.

    ReplyReply
  91. 91
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @germy: his supporters sure are moody.

    ReplyReply
  92. 92
    Nicole says:

    @trollhattan:

    O/T this day fifty years ago, just before Apollo 11’s launch, David Bowie launched Major Tom.

    My husband reminded me that he sang “Space Oddity” when he auditioned for the play where he and I met. Awww…

    ReplyReply
  93. 93
    Immanentize says:

    @germy:

    and his sweaty excuses get wetter and wetter,

    OMG. Phrasing my friend?

    ReplyReply
  94. 94
    Mary G says:

    @MomSense: @Baud: Me three. Just feeling helpless to prevent the country going down the drain. So many evil people doing evil things.

    ReplyReply
  95. 95
    Immanentize says:

    @Nicole: double Aawwww.
    Although rather dark for long-term romance, no?

    ReplyReply
  96. 96
    Kathleen says:

    @MomSense: I’m so sorry. I hope you can find some peace in the midst of all of the anxiety inducing pile of anal pustules that dominate the national conversation.

    ReplyReply
  97. 97
    germy says:

    @Immanentize: I got carried away with my own oratory.

    ReplyReply
  98. 98
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @MomSense:

    We were very close with the owner and managers of the Russian Tea Room. They had private dining rooms. Things went down there.

    I loved the RTR when I lived in NYC in the late 1960s. It was the go-to place for my husband and me to celebrate birthdays, anniversaries, job promotions, etc. I am horrified — but, weirdly, not the tiniest bit surprised — to learn that there were nasty shenanigans going on behind the scenes.

    P.S. I just flashed on a long-forgotten memory. One night when Ken and I were dining at the RTR, a Middle Eastern sheik and about 25-30 women (wives?) entered the restaurant and were escorted to some room beyond the comprehension of us proles. I remember being fascinated at the sheer theatre of the procession. Never made any connection, then, to geopolitical corruption. I just gaped, and then returned to my delicious Chicken Kiev.

    ReplyReply
  99. 99
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    I have had like maybe the fifth bad week of my life. And believe me the other four were hellhole bad.

    ReplyReply
  100. 100
    Immanentize says:

    @germy: Now that excuse I value. Purple prose is my forte!

    ReplyReply
  101. 101
    Another Scott says:

    On the lighter side… TheTweetOfGod:

    God @TheTweetOfGod

    The only thing standing between you and your dreams is insomnia.

    8:17 PM – 10 Jul 2019

    rofl.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

    ReplyReply
  102. 102
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @germy:

    Russian Tea Room? Wasn’t that a Woody Allen hangout?

    Also an important setting for an important scene in Tootsie.

    ReplyReply
  103. 103
    Mandalay says:

    @Another Scott: Gillibrand deliberately lied to the voters about her intention to run for president just before the midterms last year. She explicitly promised to to stay in the Senate for six years, and then as soon as she had secured her seat she announced she was running for president.

    I don’t care how well crafted her answer on white privilege was, I’d trust her as far as I could throw her after that stunt. Gillibrand is a self-serving liar of the first order.

    ReplyReply
  104. 104
    Kathleen says:

    @Baud: Sorry to hear that, Baud. For what it’s worth, your comments make my day! I hope you feel better.

    ReplyReply
  105. 105
    Immanentize says:

    @Another Scott: That was written by OzarkHillbilly

    ReplyReply
  106. 106

    @Baud: Its the same in India too. Modi’s party overwhelmingly won the upper castes. Almost every fucking relative of mine barring a couple of exceptions voted for Modi’s party.

    ETA: A few even advised me against writing anti-BJP screeds like the ones I did for Balloon Juice.

    ReplyReply
  107. 107
    debbie says:

    @Martin:

    That’s exactly the problem: Too many people think that helping someone else will automaticalily hurt them. I thought Gilibrand’s response really spoke to that.

    ReplyReply
  108. 108
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Immanentize:

    I am so sorry. May all the weeks to come be much better.

    ReplyReply
  109. 109
    germy says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2019/07/18/indira-gandhi-long-undeclared-emergency/

    Yet as Indians erupted in the early 2010s in protests against the Congress Party—the party that had led the independence movement and then governed for much of India’s existence—Modi managed to persuade many of the “left-behinds” that the choicest fruits of capitalism in India were being stolen by an arrogant and deceptive elite that promised meritocracy but perpetuated dynastic rule and, furthermore, coddled traitorous minorities. He pledged rapid and equitable economic growth and an end to corruption, and he vowed to create new jobs for the 10 to 12 million young Indians entering the work force every year.

    ReplyReply
  110. 110
    MomSense says:

    Thanks, everyone. I thought I was “over this” but I’m not as strong as I’d like to believe. I drank too much wine (for me) the last two days and that spooked me.

    I just feel like crying.

    ReplyReply
  111. 111
    Cacti says:

    @Mandalay:

    Gillibrand deliberately lied to the voters about her intention to run for president just before the midterms last year. She explicitly promised to to stay in the Senate for six years, and then as soon as she had secured her seat she announced she was running for president.

    I don’t care how well crafted her answer on white privilege was, I’d trust her as far as I could throw her after that stunt. Gillibrand is a self-serving liar of the first order.

    But she did help #MeToo collect its highest profile political scalp.

    Al Franken.

    ReplyReply
  112. 112
    Mary G says:

    Preview for respite thread.

    Look at this good doggo defend the woman from a mugger 🐶 💪 pic.twitter.com/1H0JWYOqiY— 🤷🏻‍♂️ 🏳️‍🌈 (@Khanoisseur) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  113. 113
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Baud:

    I’m sorry, Baud. I hope things improve.

    FWIW, July has totally sucked for me for the last several years. July 2019 doesn’t seem to be departing from that tradition.

    ReplyReply
  114. 114
    Danielx says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    Maybe not completely, but on life support.

    ReplyReply
  115. 115
    Immanentize says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Immanentize 8 Ball:

    outlook not so good

    ReplyReply
  116. 116
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize: I hope next week is better.

    @Kathleen: Thanks. I’ll be ok. Always am.

    ReplyReply
  117. 117
  118. 118
    Immanentize says:

    @MomSense:
    Instead of, or in addition to, crying; let’s share a glass of your favorite…

    ReplyReply
  119. 119
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s happening everywhere.

    ReplyReply
  120. 120
    debbie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Seconded. I had no idea that kind of shit was going on around me, but I was probably obsessing over my buckwheat blini. 😥

    ReplyReply
  121. 121

    @germy: Mishra is a Brahmin and most upper caste people like him deny the role caste plays in politics. Modi’s support among the have-nots may have increased but his base is the haves, the well off upper caste people. BJP’s Brahmin vote was 80 to 90%. While they are miniscule portion (3 to 10% depending on the region) of the population they are hugely influential.

    ReplyReply
  122. 122
    Baud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Thanks. I feel bad now. Other, better people are suffering more than I am.

    ReplyReply
  123. 123
    MomSense says:

    @Immanentize:

    You’re the best.

    ReplyReply
  124. 124
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    Hugs, Baud.

    ReplyReply
  125. 125
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Baud: I don’t know if those two vote or not, and sharing the waiting room with them will be a short term experience — everyone’s therapy schedule changes when school starts back up. The subject of preferred candidates may not come up in the time that’s left. Which is probably just as well for my sanity.

    I should add that although I have an intellectual understanding of the challenges my area’s Appalachian population faces, IRL I usually don’t feel particularly sympathetic.

    ReplyReply
  126. 126
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: no one is always OK. SO, be kind to yourself.

    Meanwhile, thank you for the boost.

    ReplyReply
  127. 127
    lamh36 says:

    something to smile about

    Obama sends letter to prisoner he freed, who made the dean’s list: ‘I am so proud of you’ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2019/07/11/barack-obama-prison-reform-inmate-felon-clemency-ban-box/1707154001/ via @usatoday

    ReplyReply
  128. 128
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Immanentize:

    Oh no. Do not like.

    ReplyReply
  129. 129
    Kathleen says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: One of my favorite scenes in Tootsie. Sydney Pollack was brilliant in the film. I laughed the hardest during his scenes.

    ReplyReply
  130. 130
    Peale says:

    @TenguPhule: is it possible that he stole a car unaware that it was transporting uranium? Kind of like stealing the car of the mafia boss.

    ReplyReply
  131. 131
    Immanentize says:

    @MomSense:
    You know I endeavor to Be Best.

    ReplyReply
  132. 132
    TenguPhule says:

    wealthy opponents of new shelter claim homeless are bad for environment

    The wealthy San Francisco residents who launched a crowdfunding campaign to block construction of a new homeless shelter in their waterfront neighborhood are employing a new tactic: arguing that homeless people are bad for the environment.

    In a lawsuit filed against the city of San Francisco and the California State Lands Commission, the residents called for the project to undergo an environmental review before breaking ground.

    “This project will have a significant effect on the environment due to these unusual circumstances, including by attracting additional homeless persons, open drug and alcohol use, crime, daily emergency calls, public urination and defecation, and other nuisances,” the lawsuit states.

    Opponents of infrastructure and affordable housing projects often call upon the California Environmental Quality Act as a stalling ploy to delay construction. The law requires developers to explore any environmental effects a project might have, and take steps to reduce them.

    Attorneys for the residents, paid for by the more than $102,000 raised through the GoFundMe campaign, argued in the lawsuit that the project did not undergo a full environmental review process.

    NIMBY lives eternally.

    ReplyReply
  133. 133
    TenguPhule says:

    @Peale: I didn’t think there was a second person foolish enough to steal John Wick’s Car. //

    ReplyReply
  134. 134
    Baud says:

    @lamh36:

    Trump sent a similar letter to Joe Arapaio.

    ReplyReply
  135. 135
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Baud:

    Other, better people are suffering more than I am.

    It’s not a contest.

    ReplyReply
  136. 136
    Spanky says:

    @MomSense:

    I just feel like crying.

    Well, that could be cathartic. I’m glad you’re able to talk about it, even though it’s anonymously here.

    Please, everyone, take a moment to check in with yourself and see how you’re doing. Shut off the news/internet when you need to. We need you all here for the long haul.

    @Immanentize: Knowing how the last few years have been for you makes that rather alarming.

    ReplyReply
  137. 137
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: OT but here is link to story about AOC’s Chief of Staff about a T shirt he was wearing:

    https://www.newsweek.com/who-was-subhas-chandra-bose-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-senior-staffer-criticized-sporting-image-1448687

    Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff has come under fire after being spotted wearing a T-shirt bearing the image of a controversial Indian independence figure who collaborated with Adolf Hitler’s Nazi regime during World War Two.

    ReplyReply
  138. 138
    Baud says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Good. I hate losing.

    ReplyReply
  139. 139

    @Baud: {{{ }}}. I had totally disconnected from politics last week because we had guests from overseas and that was good.

    ReplyReply
  140. 140
    Kathleen says:

    @Immanentize: Sorry to hear that. Hope some clouds part for you soon!

    ReplyReply
  141. 141
    Baud says:

    @Kathleen:

    I was somewhat sympathetic to AOC in all this until I learned about her COS.

    ReplyReply
  142. 142
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Kathleen:

    Agreed, wonderful! I do love Tootsie, though it’s been years since I’ve seen it. Will have to haul it out.

    ReplyReply
  143. 143
    Ken says:

    @germy: I suggest making the obvious extension to the solution given by XKCD.

    ReplyReply
  144. 144
    MomSense says:

    @Immanentize:

    You have me worried so I’m sending you and the Immp all the best wishes, prayers, thoughts, and energy.

    ReplyReply
  145. 145

    @Kathleen: Subhas Chandra Bose is a huge hero in Bengal. AOC’s chief of staff is Bengali, so this is not surprising. FWIW, I don’t think Subhas Bose was a fascist, he did ally with the Axis powers, mostly Japan. You have to remember that at that time Churchill was starving Indians in Bengal as a matter of policy. Two million Indians died because of that policy.

    ReplyReply
  146. 146

    MomSense, Baud, Immanentize: So sorry to hear you’re all reeling right now. That should now happen to good people!

    ReplyReply
  147. 147
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Yeah, fair point.

    ReplyReply
  148. 148
    Jay says:

    @MomSense:

    Sometimes a good cry is just that, a good cry.

    ReplyReply
  149. 149
    Baud says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    That should now happen to good people!

    Chicago has really changed you.

    ReplyReply
  150. 150
    Nicole says:

    @Immanentize:

    @Nicole: double Aawwww.
    Although rather dark for long-term romance, no?

    That was nothing. You should have seen the play.

    ReplyReply
  151. 151
    Kathleen says:

    @Baud: I read WAPO article about how upset the other House members were about his tweet. Some members were crying they were so upset. Many went to Pelosi to express their concerns. Here’s link if you’re interested (I think someone else posted link earlier:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pelosi-defends-handling-of-squad-as-democrats-fume-about-ocasio-cortezs-top-aide/2019/07/11/985c52a6-a3e7-11e9-bd56-eac6bb02d01d_story.html?utm_term=.d36d0bd77d25

    ReplyReply
  152. 152
    Mandalay says:

    @Cacti:

    But she did help #MeToo collect its highest profile political scalp. Al Franken.

    Heh. At least there are valid perspectives on both sides with that.

    But reneging on her explicit promise to voters to serve out her Senate term immediately after she was safely reelected … not so much.

    ReplyReply
  153. 153
    hilts says:

    @trollhattan:

    Read a great article earlier today with interesting background details about Space Oddity:

    Even Bowie’s regular and longtime producer, Tony Visconti, had doubts about the track, which utilized a punny title and was rush-released on July 11, 1969 to capitalize on the excitement surrounding that month’s Apollo 11 moon mission. So, Visconti passed on “Space Oddity,” leaving its production duties to young engineer Gus Dudgeon instead… “I thought it was a bad choice for a first single [from Bowie’s self-titled ‘69 album] because I saw it as a novelty record,” Visconti explained to Yahoo Entertainment in 2016.

    “[‘Space Oddity’] came from a feeling of sadness about this aspect of the space thing. It has been dehumanized, so I wrote a song-farce about it, to try and relate science and human emotion. I suppose it’s an antidote to space fever, really,” Bowie said in the book Strange Stars: David Bowie, Pop Music, and the Decade Sci-Fi Exploded.

    h/t https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/the-odd-story-of-space-oddity-how-a-novelty-record-launched-david-bowie-into-the-stratosphere-50-years-ago-170000604.html

    ReplyReply
  154. 154
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Thank you for the insight.

    ReplyReply
  155. 155
    Immanentize says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: OK, this you will like -+ a true story from our NYC youth days.
    So I was at CBGBs with one of the three women I loved completely in my life who I met after Quadrophenia in an upstate NY movie theatre where my friend, Mike, was an usher (so I got in free!). She was wearing a pea coat and I was wearing my Korea war era winter coat….

    Anyhoo — there we were at CBGBs maybe a year later listening to Kinky Friedman and the Texas Jewboys. The theme was Cowboy Bar Mitzvah!!! Complete with a banner that read: “Ride ’em Jewboy.”

    Upstairs there was a complete bar mitzvah spread including chopped liver with little Israeli flags. I had to pee….

    Went into the bathroom and there, on the not so very clean floor, was a beautiful young black man with his shirt off. There were three white guys in suits (one still had his tie tight!) kneeling around him doing long lines of coke off of chest. He looked up at me and smiled as that ‘inhale sound’ seemed to beat out the bumping beat of Kinky et al. I pissed and then returned to the lovely Ms M. downstairs.

    ReplyReply
  156. 156

    @Baud: Oh dear. LOL. Sorry!

    ReplyReply
  157. 157
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Seconded. Sending good energy in all your directions. Please let us know what we can do to help and keep us posted.

    ReplyReply
  158. 158
    TenguPhule says:

    @Immanentize:

    Upstairs there was a complete bar mitzvah spread including chopped liver with little Israeli flags. I had to pee….

    Funny, I thought this story would end differently.

    ReplyReply
  159. 159
    chris says:

    @TenguPhule: Oops! Better call Rick Perry at DOE. He’ll know what to do.

    ReplyReply
  160. 160
    Jay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    One has to admire the “granite countertops” level of “investigations” involved in this shit stirring.

    ReplyReply
  161. 161
    Baud says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: That was a compliment.

    @Jay:

    The shirt is understandable. He seems like a bad apple though.

    ReplyReply
  162. 162
    Kathleen says:

    I just don’t know why I bother.

    ReplyReply
  163. 163
    ballinger says:

    @Another Scott:

    We’ve got a lot of good candidates…

    Other than dumbass Biden.

    ReplyReply
  164. 164
    laura says:

    @MomSense: you are strong, and you are tender. This avalanche of Epstein grossness would rend the strongest of normal hearts, and if you’ve had a similar experience, it’s got to be raw anguish to both re-experience your past and connect deeply with his child victims.
    Here’s a {{{{{Hug}}}}}.
    Self-care MomSense.

    ReplyReply
  165. 165

    What a classy group Trump gathers around him.

    POTUS leaves without taking questions. “Talk to us! The real news!” Then this mess unfolded with Sebastian Gorka yelling at a journalist. Supporter say Gorka could “kick your punk ass.” This is happening in the Rose Garden. pic.twitter.com/FmE4KYT9eO— Katie Rogers (@katierogers) July 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  166. 166
    TenguPhule says:

    @ballinger: Still better then Tulsi.

    ReplyReply
  167. 167
    Immanentize says:

    @TenguPhule: One really never knows how a bar mitzvah will end….

    ReplyReply
  168. 168
  169. 169
    Jay says:

    @Baud:

    I missed the morning thread, but it was really interesting how a couple of new Nyms on St. Petersburg time took the thread to town like it was 2016.

    I don’t see any points to the circular firing squads that keep getting tee’d up.

    ReplyReply
  170. 170
    Baud says:

    Kamala will be on Rachel tonight.

    ReplyReply
  171. 171
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kathleen: I had totally missed that tweet from Chakrabarti that sparked all this. The WilmerWing making friends wherever they go

    ReplyReply
  172. 172
    Chyron HR says:

    @Jay:

    Speaking of disingenuous shit-stirring, what’s going to be 2020’s equivalent of “release the SPEEEEEEEEEEECHES”?

    ReplyReply
  173. 173
    Nicole says:

    @Immanentize: Your excursions to CBGBs were clearly a heck of a lot better than mine.

    ReplyReply
  174. 174
    Jay Noble says:

    I haven’t noticed anyone on BJ (to my recollection) put up the actual proposed Citizenship question. It wasn’t just a yes or no but Born in the US?, Born in US Protectorate (Puertt Rico, etc.)?, Born abroad to US Parent(s)? Naturalized (give year)?, Not US Citizen?. They were(are) after ALL Immigrants.

    And something else missed – not answering or falsifying an answer on the question is a misdemeanor that carries a fine up to $5,000. Jeez I wonder that plays into green card apps or even Naturlized citizens when picked up to be deported? No one has been prosecuted for either since the 1970 census and no one else is supposed to see that info for another 72 years. But this Trump and the Japanese Internment process broke that 72 year rule.

    ReplyReply
  175. 175
    Immanentize says:

    @Kathleen: Because you are good and you share with love.

    ReplyReply
  176. 176
    Jay says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Depends who the nominee is.

    ReplyReply
  177. 177
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Ohio Mom: Right, and this is why I would be a terrible politician: because to your (and my) fat tattoo’d white moms who “don’t buy” any of it, I would say, “no matter how hard your lives are, your faults and screw-ups are pretty much your own to own. For people of color, institutionalized racism gets piled on top of whatever faults and screw-ups of their own, and makes shit *even worse* for them. Yes, Virginia, institutionalized racism is a thing. And if you don’t get it, it’s because you’re a racist and you don’t WANT to get it.”

    ReplyReply
  178. 178
    Jay says:

    Infowars and Russian propaganda outlet RT are once again aligned and pushing conspiracy theories about the "suspicious timing" of the Twitter outage during today's #SocialMediaSummit. pic.twitter.com/LmG2CnbBXu— Caroline Orr (@RVAwonk) July 11, 2019

    ReplyReply
  179. 179
    Immanentize says:

    @Nicole:
    1) like all good things, the key is timing!
    2) CBGB bathroom stories? C’mon. Either you held it until you returned to New Jersey* or you are hiding your experiences. Frankly, I have better CBGB women’s bathroom stories than that one in the men’s.

    *Obvious provocative insult.

    ReplyReply
  180. 180

    @Jay Noble: USCIS has a doorstop on both me and husband kitteh.
    I saw it when I went to the interview for my citizenship . What can one census question tell them that they don’t already know.

    ReplyReply
  181. 181
    mad citizen says:

    @Mandalay: Well all Gillibrand has to do to keep that promise is not win the Nomination/General Election, which it seems like she is succeeding in doing so.

    I like a lot of the things she says, but much prefer the Senators from Cali or Mass. Especially California. I’d like to get that vibe in the WH, just something different about it and something we haven’t had on the D side. I’ve had enough east coast ivy Leaguers.

    ReplyReply
  182. 182
    Jay says:

    I’m not kidding. Read this thread. https://t.co/X9A9ItXZ04— Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady) July 12, 2019

    ReplyReply
  183. 183
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @germy:

    “I don’t like massages particularly.”

    Neither do I. So I turn them down.

    ReplyReply
  184. 184
    Jay Noble says:

    @schrodingers_cat: “Born heres” really have no idea all the stuff immigrants such as you go through. Same for Refugees. I really believe they wanted the question as a “legal” tripwire more than anything.

    ReplyReply
  185. 185
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I believe you have to call it “Chicken Kyiv” now.

    ReplyReply
  186. 186

    @Baud: @Kathleen: Not just in Bengal, Azad Hind Sena veterans were considered heroes all over India. The British Indian government held a court martial for 3 Azad Hind Sena officers (they were POWs in Japan and originally part of the British Indian Army) after the WWII was over. The trials were held in the historic Red Fort, the seat of Mughal power in India which the British used as a prison. INC formed a defense team for them and Nehru was on it.
    INA trials

    ReplyReply
  187. 187
    RSA says:

    @jl:

    Census and other statistical experts have made a good case that the counts for persons in decennial Census could be greatly improved by statistical modelling.

    A bit of trivia: The German term Statistik was introduced into English a couple of years after the U.S. Constitution was written. It’s sad (but also laughable) that originalists argue for “direct enumeration” when it’s entirely possible that the founding fathers were really interested in accurate estimates but had no knowledge of alternatives to counting. My guess is that in the late 18th century they were trying to say, “Don’t just come up with a wild-ass guess.”

    ReplyReply
  188. 188
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Immanentize: Someone chose to lay down on the floor of that room? Wow.

    ReplyReply
  189. 189
    Jay says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Child rapists says whut?

    Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, accused in a lawsuit of having sex with a 16-year-old girl nearly 20 years ago, asked a federal judge on Tuesday to throw out her court filing — one that he had publicly asked for and “welcomed’’ as a means to vindicate himself and prove that the woman has been lying.

    Read more here: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/state/florida/article232012352.html#storylink=cpy

    ReplyReply
  190. 190
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    Don’t leave out the bathrooms on the Lower East Side in the 1980s. Ick.

    ReplyReply
  191. 191
    Amir Khalid says:

    @debbie:
    TIME styles its name in all-caps, on the cover, in headlines, and in body copy.

    ReplyReply
  192. 192
    Immanentize says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I think it was clear some amount of cash dollars was involved.

    ReplyReply
  193. 193
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Surprising indeed. Lay down on that floor shirtless?

    ReplyReply
  194. 194
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Yes.

    ReplyReply
  195. 195
    Miss Bianca says:

    @germy: DKOS has been “dishonest” about Sanders for years? I remember staying away from them because a majority of the diarists there (*not* Kos,fwiw) struck me as such Bernie-fluffers and Democrat-bashers. Wow! Guess I must have been wrong!

    ReplyReply
  196. 196
    Immanentize says:

    @RSA:
    That is an interesting whatevs. How do you then think about article 2 of the XIV Amendment written in the late 19th century? Were those people a hundred years later so dull witted?

    #redditstupid

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  197. 197

    One last thing about Bose and British India. There is more than one way to look at WWII. Hitler was terrible, but the people who are actively starving you and have bled your country dry for 100 years aren’t exactly heroes in your eyes. While Azad Hind Sena (Indian National Army) was actively fighting the Brits in Burma. INC had boycotted all war effort. The parties that were collaborating with the British war effort in India were the Muslim League, and Hindu Mahasabha.
    So history is complicated.
    Saikat is a tool but not because he wore a Bose shirt.
    ETA: INA was more a propaganda tool and as a fighting force was not particularly effective.

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  198. 198
    debbie says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I know, but I thought it looked like I was yelling.

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  199. 199
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: please let me do so. Ms M lived on 2nd.

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  200. 200
    Immanentize says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    One must remember this was a half decade before the AIDS plague. It makes me smile and very sad.

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  201. 201
    Miss Bianca says:

    @TenguPhule: The…hell?!

    Were those expired tags from Florida? Are we seeing Florida Man and Woman on the move in Middle America?

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  202. 202
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I remembered how insistent you were on that point. You’re welcome!

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  203. 203
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Immanentize: Ave or St.?

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  204. 204
    debbie says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Jesus. Who was that chick in the red, white, and blue get-up?

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  205. 205
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Immanentize: forget AIDS. Surely that floor had bubonic plague or worse.

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  206. 206
    Immanentize says:

    @Miss Bianca:
    The great sin of Kos was saying the obvious early. Sanders would never win the primary. That was his original sin that no amount of righteous truth can wash away.

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  207. 207
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Steve in the ATL: And here I thought it was just a polite request.

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  208. 208
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    Heh, okay.

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  209. 209
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Steve in the ATL: The floor in McSorley’s was cleaner.

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  210. 210
    Immanentize says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Ave plus Houston(near)

    Please don’t tell me you know her….😊

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  211. 211
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Immanentize: @Gin & Tonic: I have a theory that I am trying to develop. The generation ahead of me did big outdoor music festivals with very iffy sanitary arrangements. The generation after me did the same. My generation gravitated toward grimy clubs in rundown city neighborhoods with very iffy sanitary arrangements. That is as far as I have gotten.

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  212. 212
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Immanentize: Hope you’re OK. And loving the CBGB’s stories. I hail originally from the suburbs of Detroit, and my first excursion to NYC in the summer of ’81 before college filled me with shock’n’awe.

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  213. 213
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Miss Bianca: It was a more, um, vibrant city in those years.

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  214. 214
    Barbara says:

    @germy: Can it be that Dershowitz has finally run into his kryptonite?

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  215. 215
    Immanentize says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Heatwave? proves the rule or destroys the theory?

    I was there! But I’m losing my edge.

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  216. 216
    Nicole says:

    @Immanentize: No, really. By the time I went to CBGB’s, in the late 90s (I very briefly dated the singer/guitarist of a punk band that got to play there one night), it was just kind of worn down. The women’s room was certainly dirty, but even there, I’ve been in restrooms at truck stops along I-78 that were worse.

    Maybe I was just there on a lame night (see reason for attending, above)?

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  217. 217
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Immanentize: I think we can discount it because of Canada.

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  218. 218
    Anotherlurker says:

    @MomSense: Hi MomSense, as someone who’s PTSD is triggered by flooding and storms, I can understand what you are going thru. Trauma of any kind never really disappears, it just recedes until something triggers it.
    Sharing here with this group of Jackals is very therapeutic. They listen, advise and never judge.
    There are times when I can disconnect when I feel the old feelings coming on. For me it is like getting knocked over by a wave. It is futile to fight it. I just try to do something fun or productive and let the trauma pass. It does pass, sooner or later.
    Remember, you are not alone.

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  219. 219
    Immanentize says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Fair enough. But it was the first time the Talking Heads premiered their “big band” including Nona Hendryx and Adrian Belew. We went crazy. It was too much at once.

    Elvis Costello. The Pretenders. B- 52s. Rockpile! And the really really fine Holly and the Italians. The Kings (who now?) finished late in the next morning with Switching to Glide…. Somewhere, I have photos.

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  220. 220
    Immanentize says:

    @Nicole: The question never was how bad the restrooms were but how interesting/fun!

    Sorry about the boyfriend’s band.

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  221. 221
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Immanentize:

    Somewhere, I have photos.

    All things considered, it might be best if they continue to be “somewhere.”

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  222. 222
    rikyrah says:

    @MomSense:
    You hang on and get to your counselor🙏😞

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  223. 223
    stinger says:

    @Baud:

    Chicago has really changed you.

    She was Iowa Nice when I knew her.

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  224. 224
    Redshift says:

    @MomSense: I hear ya. As someone close to me says, “I’m glad for #MeToo, but I wish we could get through one week where rape isn’t the top story in the news…”

    ReplyReply
  225. 225
    rikyrah says:

    @Immanentize:
    You feel better too, Imma😞

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  226. 226
    rikyrah says:

    @Baud:
    Sending you positive thoughts😞

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  227. 227
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Immanentize:

    The Kings (who now?)

    How dare you insult us like that. You think we don’t know that cheesy Canadian party band? Had the album and the cassette back in the day; have it in my Spotify mix now!

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  228. 228
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: You guys may need this.

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  229. 229
    Redshift says:

    @Jay: I don’t get the drive to declare any win meaningless. Does anyone believe Republicans weren’t going to try all of that stuff if they’d won on the census?

    Yeah, all that stuff is awful and needs to be fought, but in addition they were planning to try to intimidate people into making the census count whiter to gain seats, and they’re less able to do that now. That isn’t nothing.

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  230. 230
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Moderation for a 43 minute docu about The Kings? WTF?

    ReplyReply
  231. 231
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: odd. It’s not like it was a documentary about Chiliwack.

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  232. 232
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: That should be a one way ticket to the void.

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  233. 233
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: whatever happened to them? They’ve been gone gone gone been gone so long….

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  234. 234
    Nicole says:

    @Immanentize: The graffiti on the walls was the highlight of the restroom, sadly. I envy your much more entertaining trip to them.

    Yeah… he was not a bad guy, but early 30’s is not the age to start a punk band.

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  235. 235
    J R in WV says:

    @Barbara:

    Can it be that Dershowitz has finally run into his kryptonite?

    Hoping so! thought the Claus von Bulow case did it, but evidently not…

    ReplyReply
  236. 236
    James E Powell says:

    @Immanentize:

    Friends and I used to go to NYC a few times a year to hit the clubs. Never had anything like your memories at CBGBs. Best band I saw there was The Shirts. We were always checking to see if someone famous was in the crowd. Those were good times – I know it’s what old people say – things like flights, cheap hotels to crash in, and club covers were relatively cheap.

    ReplyReply
  237. 237
    noname says:

    @Nicole: @Immanentize: Do either of you remember Reagan Youth? Used to play pretty often at CBGB back in the day.

    ReplyReply

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