Failing the Test You Didn’t Know You Were Taking

Mistermix covered the kerfuffle between Speaker Pelosi and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez earlier today. As I’ve read the coverage around it, the thing that stood out for me was something other than issues between the different ideological wings of the caucus or whether Speaker Pelosi is doing a better job handling the Squad of four very outspoken, very left of center first year women members of the Democratic Caucus or if AOC’s Chief of Staff, who used to run the Justice Democrats, is himself a problem, or even the recent dust up by Congressman Lacy of Missouri from earlier today. I instead want to focus on something that jumped out to me that didn’t get a lot of coverage except in the attempt to show the distance between Speaker Pelosi and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez.

One quick note before I dive in: I think Speaker Pelosi is good at wrangling her caucus, though I’m quite concerned about the strategy she seems to be pursuing regarding the President and his administration. I also like Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez, as well as the other three members of the Squad (Congresswomen Omar, Tlaib, and Pressley), even if I don’t agree with them on everything. As is the case with so many of the new women members, from Congresswoman Davids of KS to Congresswoman Porter of CA and about another dozen in between, simply having the diversity of life experiences makes the current Democratic Caucus in the House better than almost any one before. And from what I can tell they’re all plugging away hard, bring those diverse experiences and views to bear, even if they’re not getting a lot of attention because the media is like meth addict on a three day bender in what it covers.

What stood out to me in the various contretemps around Speaker Pelosi and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez is from an interview the latter gave to The New Yorker Radio Hour on Tuesday. While a lot of focus went to AOC, during a discussion of her relationship with Speaker Pelosi that begins at the 11:12 mark of the interview, stating she doesn’t really have much of a relationship with Speaker Pelosi, what really struck me is what AOC said at the 13:41 mark. I’m starting the quotation partially into the end of her answer as to why she turned down Speaker Pelosi’s offer to serve on the Select Committee for Climate Change.

…given the committee assignments I was ultimately given. Which were very intense and very rigorous. I was assigned to two of the busiest committees and four subcommittees, so my hands are full. And sometimes I wonder if they’re trying to keep my busy.

Both the interviewer and Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez then laugh at her answer.  Here’s the embed in case you don’t want to clip over. And please, don’t take my word for the transcription, listen for yourselves from the 11:12 mark or from the 13:41 mark.

https://www.wnyc.org/widgets/ondemand_player/wnycstudios/#file=/audio/json/949348/&share=1

I think this answer is telling. Specifically, I think Speaker Pelosi wants to know just how good Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez is. So she gave her a lot of responsibility for a first term member of Congress. This is a test. It is a test to see if she can handle the work. It is a test to see how she reacts, responds, and what she produces when she has to work on a team that isn’t ideologically focused or politically concerned with the same things she is. It is a test to see if she is a workhorse or a show pony. And it is a test to see if Speaker Pelosi should spend precious time grooming her for ever increasing responsibility as Speaker Pelosi winds down her career in Congress rather than Congresswomen Porter or Davids or Haaland or Underwood or Hayes or Garcia or Escobar or Finkenauer or Axne or McBath or at least half a dozen others. AOC’s answer tells me she both doesn’t realize that this is a test and that she is also failing it because she doesn’t understand she is being tested. She just thinks – wink, wink, nudge, nudge – that they’re trying to keep her too busy to cause trouble for leadership.

Open thread!






194 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    It’s like when Mr. Miyagi made Ralph Macchio wax the car.

  2. 2
    TenguPhule says:

    She just thinks – wink, wink, nudge, nudge – that they’re trying to keep her too busy to cause trouble for leadership.

    Let’s be fair, you, I and AOC all know that none of the work on those committees is going to actually become useful legislation as long as Mitch McConnell and his GOP Senators stand firm.

  3. 3
    hilts says:

    Adam,

    Agree with you 100% and I’m disappointed with AOC’s naivete as reflected in this statement.

  4. 4
    dr. bloor says:

    Where would you like your Internets delivered?

    I think Speaker Pelosi is good at wrangling her caucus, though I’m quite concerned about the strategy she seems to be pursuing regarding the President and his administration.

    I might take issue with this, because I give poker players who know they are drawing dead enormous latitude re: how they play that hand. Impeachment without conviction, or even worse, impeachment inquiry with a failure to impeach means GAME OVER. And trying to hold Trump accountable for any and everything Trump does thereafter, including biting the heads off of live babies and buggering four year old boys on 5th Avenue, will be spun by R’s and everyone in the media as “DOUBLE JEOPARDY!!!11!!eleven!!twelve!!”

    She knows she’s screwed, and she has chosen to keep the hand alive as long as he can. Who knows? Maybe Trump chokes on a Big Mac and the entire conservative wing of the SCOTUS gets hit by lightning. Probably not, but the longer you keep the game going, the better her odds.

  5. 5
    germy says:

    I so old I remember when the new members were suspicious they weren’t being picked for important work.

    Meanwhile, I see there was some yelling in the Rose Garden when Gorka showed up.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @dr. bloor:

    If she starts impeachment tomorrow, the internet will attack her for distracting us from the border crisis.

  7. 7
    germy says:

    And on the republican side, Mr. King has been stripped of all responsibilities. So he spends his time with diamond and silk.

  8. 8
    ruemara says:

    AOC asked for those assignments. If she finds it’s too much, “respectfully, I will step down from x committee so I can focus on y”. AOC could learn to wrangle votes for her issues & show she’s an heir apparent to Pelosi. Instead, “Pelosi is silencing WOC!”.

    No thank you to using ID politics when it’s convenient. Cry on Sanders’ shoulder since he’s your mentor.

  9. 9
  10. 10

    @dr. bloor: Also, keeping the game going means you can get a better hand(in this case, more support). Though I think Adam’s and Mix’s idea for a single committee to investigate would be useful.

  11. 11
    TenguPhule says:

    @dr. bloor:

    impeachment inquiry with a failure to impeach means GAME OVER.

    Fearing to even start an impeachment inquiry is surrendering before the first shot is even fired.

    Conceding power because we fear that power won’t work? Then we’ve already lost that power.

  12. 12
    piratedan says:

    Adam… I think that’s probably a more perceptive take than most folks would expect. I fully anticipate that Speaker Pelosi is more than ready to hand over the keys to the vehicle, but also get that she’ not going to give them to just anyone. I too empathize and support what the young Representatives stand for and where they are coming from, but something that all of us political junkies here understand that in order to do the job right, you have to be understand what it means. I get that the ladies are in “Mad as Hell and We’re Not Going to Take IT Anymore mode”, but I would much rather not see them marginalize themselves as being “The Left’s” cautionary example, as I suspect the media wishes to do. Congress is supposed to be for serious people (Louie Gohmert, notwithstanding) and there are serious problems that need considerable efforts to resolve them and understanding the power and repercussions of ones actions and effort are not something to be taken lightly (GOP members notwithstanding). As has been mentioned multiple times and bears repeating again, as far as the media is concerned, Only Democrats have agency, as such, it doesn’t matter who from the GOP is sodomizing a squirrel on the floor of the chambers on CCTV, they will NOT be held accountable for their actions, only Democrats are for their words and their deeds.

  13. 13
    jl says:

    Thanks for posting the interview, which is interesting. I disagree with AOC’s reasoning on turning down seat on select committee on climate change.
    As for being kept busy, I think she was joking. Other comments indicate that she is trying to look at things from the leadership’s perspective. Whether she had an adequate understanding is another issue.

  14. 14

    @TenguPhule: To use the words of the late efg…”it was two years and change from the Watergate break-in to Nixon’s resignation, patience grasshopper”. Oh, and fuckem.

  15. 15
    TenguPhule says:

    @ruemara:

    AOC could learn to wrangle votes for her issues

    Perhaps the Speaker could show her by example how it works when the issue is a hard and divisive one?

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    @jl:

    By itself, I would have read it as a joke also.

  17. 17
    jl says:

    and I am under the impression that Pelosi and other leadership have already decided and ‘trained’ as it were the people they want to take over immediately after they leave, for example, Ted Lieu. So, I think Adam is being over literal. But thanks again for linking to the interview.

  18. 18
    Martin says:

    Maybe. The problem Pelosi has to deal with in AOC is that AOC arrived as a bit of a rock star, and is very good at maintaining her visibility, mainly through mechanisms that Pelosi is not natural to. Pelosi made a dig at AOCs social media status, but that’s how AOC operates, and how many of AOCs voters want to operate.

    There’s a real generational divide there, and it’s not to suggest that Pelosi does or doesn’t like and support Pelosi, it’s that Pelosi believes there is a certain way to operate in Congress, and AOC believes there’s a different way. That’s Biden’s blind spot as well. He’s well inside Tweeties fantasy world where Tip O’Neill and Reagan will work together on big problems. That world is dead and buried (and it wasn’t even really alive then).

    The freshmen as a group, including Porter and other not quite as young members, are there because they don’t believe comity with Republicans and CEOs will get you anywhere. So it’s really not clear that even Pelosi’s test is the test she thinks it is. Pelosi’s test is an institutionalist test. I’m not sure that institutionalism is in any way a viable approach any longer. I think Trump is the first huge indication of that. I think the popularity of AOC speaks to that. I think Harris’ takedown of Biden is reflective of that.

  19. 19
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: That wasn’t a test. That was routine maintenance.

  20. 20

    Okay, I have been thinking all day about writing about this, and I guess I’m going to have to.

    Adam, you may be right about this being a test. It may be that Pelosi’s negative comments about AOC and the distance she keeps, according to the New Yorker interview are just a form of good-natured hazing. But, for the test, there’s another side to it.

    In academia, women and people of color are given a great many committee and mentoring assignments, along with the informal need to work with students who see them as role models. This work is not credited toward tenure but still requires time and effort.

    Because there are few women and people of color, they are given these extra assignments to “balance” committees and such. This is a real need, but it is also a burden on them. As usual, women and poc have to be ten times as good to get as far.

    So I would question if something like this is going on in AOC’s committee assignments. If she already had a significant load, it’s fair enough for her to question whether the additional committee would be writing legislation. If it’s not gonna make a difference, then there’s no reason for her to provide token cover for the caucus leadership. Young people are getting wise to this.

  21. 21
    dr. bloor says:

    @TenguPhule: “Surrender” and “staying alive” are not the same.

  22. 22
    germy says:

    … in the rose garden of the @whitehouse, @sebgorka just screamed at journalist @briankarem calling him a "punk." then someone remarked that gorka could "kick your punk ass."again, this happened… in the rose garden.vid from @katierogers pic.twitter.com/F88NX4lWk7— fake nick ramsey (@nick_ramsey) July 11, 2019

  23. 23

    Ah, Martin wrote my post for me.

    I might write one anyway.

  24. 24
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: Also, the alt-right cloned Sammy Davis Jr.

  25. 25
    germy says:

    POTUS leaves without taking questions. “Talk to us! The real news!” Then this mess unfolded with Sebastian Gorka yelling at a journalist. Supporter say Gorka could “kick your punk ass.” This is happening in the Rose Garden. pic.twitter.com/FmE4KYT9eO— Katie Rogers (@katierogers) July 11, 2019

  26. 26
    TenguPhule says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Point of order.We can’t even seem to get the traction of Watergate following Trump being caught not only obstructing justice, but creating children concentration camps in 2018, his appointees lying to the judges that they’ll reunite those children with their parents, and then further expanding those camps in 2019.

    We’ve got at best another 3 months left in this year’s Congressional Calendar to start just the beginning investigative committees to an inquiry as to whether Trump’s actions rise to the level of impeachment. The time lag is brutal and not working for us here. I fear going into 2020 with an angry, depressed Democratic Base while the GOP go “LOL, I don’t care, Do U?”

  27. 27
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @TenguPhule: She got people to vote for the ACA who know that the vote would end their Congressional careers.

  28. 28
    Mary G says:

    AOC’s COS is a major problem:

    (WaPo) Pelosi refused to respond directly to Ocasio-Cortez’s accusation at a Thursday news conference but said she had to speak out to defend her moderate members after the aide’s tweet.

    Saikat Chakrabarti, Ocasio-Cortez’s chief of staff, referred to members of moderate Democratic groups in a tweet last month as “New Southern Democrats” who are “hell bent to do to black and brown people today what the old Southern Democrats did in the 40s.”

    The aide later deleted the tweet but posted other tweets saying the moderates’ actions “still enable a racist system.”

    Calling members of your own party racist is a major fail.

    WaPo Magazine also has a major front page profile of Chakrabati up today as well.

    Almost as remarkable as the rise of Ocasio-Cortez has been Chakra­barti’s trajectory. When we met, Chakrabarti, 33, arrived with his customary backpack and white button-down shirt stretched over a torso that has spent a lot of time in a gym. Because I was interested, he began telling the story of how he went from politically disengaged techie to fired-up activist to insurgent insider.

    He sounds ignorant of how things work and disinterested in learning because he’s going to change it all anyway. Trumpian as fuck from the other side.

    AOC does a exemplary job of questioning people in committee hearings. Having this clown pissing off Pelosi and all the other Democrat reps will be her downfall. He needs to go.

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jl: I’m not suggesting that Speaker Pelosi is going to anoint AOC as heir apparent in 2023. I’m suggesting that they heavy amount of responsibility is a test so that Speaker Pelosi can determine if AOC is worth investing significant energy in as she winds down her career to mentor AOC into becoming a leader in the caucus.

  30. 30
    dr. bloor says:

    There’s a real generational divide there, and it’s not to suggest that Pelosi does or doesn’t like and support Pelosi, it’s that Pelosi believes there is a certain way to operate in Congress, and AOC believes there’s a different way. That’s Biden’s blind spot as well.

    I would take issue with conflating Pelosi and Biden. I have no idea what Biden is up to, but Pelosi knows that the magic number is 218, and that guides everything she does and says. AOC seems to think social media is an actual constituency and that the national and/or popular vote matters. I don’t know what to make of that.

  31. 31
    RAVEN says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Even with this jerk in the pie filter it fucks up the blog.

  32. 32
    dr. bloor says:

    @Adam L Silverman: If you squint, second from right looks like a young Joey Bishop.

    None of them would have had a chance in hell with Angie Dickinson.

  33. 33
    TenguPhule says:

    @dr. bloor: Surrendering to stay alive is.

  34. 34
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I’m not specifically referring to her turning down the Select Committee on Climate assignment. That’s why I started the quote after she finished answering why she wasn’t on that committee in terms of her specific concerns with how the committee is structured and functioning.

    And as someone who grew up in academia and turned his back on it, I’m very aware of how it functions. I left for a variety of reasons, but among them was the failure to live up to its stated ideals and principles.

  35. 35
    Baud says:

    Kamala on Rachel starting now.

  36. 36
    dr. bloor says:

    @Mary G: He’s been at this for months. Anyone who says that AOC is being advised poorly by others should gently remind themselves that she’s their boss.

  37. 37
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @germy: The person who was egging Gorka on is that nutbar female vocalist that accused Corey Lewandowski of smacking her ass. Not that being a nutbar justifies or excuses being sexually assaulted.

  38. 38
    Jay says:

    Circular firing squad tee’d up again.

    I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.
    Will Rogers

    Should have held off until the AM so Russian active measures could chime in.

  39. 39
    TenguPhule says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    She got people to vote for the ACA who know that the vote would end their Congressional careers.

    Yes, she did. Now its a different time and with a different bench of Democrats.

  40. 40
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G: He made a ton of money real quick as a techie, then became a hard core purity uber alles leftist.

  41. 41
    dr. bloor says:

    @TenguPhule: Thank you for proving my point. Would you like Strawberry Rhubarb or Banana Cream?

  42. 42

    @Adam L Silverman: I used academia as the example because that’s where the problem is most obvious, but it’s more general than that. Pelosi may think of what she’s doing as a test, but she’s operating in a different mental space than AOC.

  43. 43
    debbie says:

    Adam, I agree with your conclusion. I think this was s a real cop-out on AOC’s part, what with her “New Green Deal” and all. This makes me think no one will better undermine her cause than her.

    I listen to the New Yorker Radio Hour every Sunday afternoon, so thanks for the warning. I will try to keep a lid on my anger when I listen.

    Speaking of anger, in light of the social media “summit” and Alain’s ICE post below, how about we skip impeachment and go straight to a criminal indictment? There has to be a way, and it has to be speedy.

  44. 44
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dr. bloor: That’s Charlie Kirk from Turning Point USA. Turning Point is a college outreach program on behalf of the President, run by Kirk who never went to College. His dad works for the President though.

    The Sami Davis Jr clone is actually Ali Alexander, formerly doing business as Ali Akbar. A convicted felon. It is amazing the number of people with criminal records were at this meeting today.

  45. 45
    Jay says:

    @Jay:

    And a different world.

  46. 46
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dr. bloor: Yet Chakrabati and Shahid own and run Justice Democrats. And they exert a lot of control. He’s AOC’s congressional chief of staff, but he’s also there as her Justice Democrat minder.

  47. 47
    debbie says:

    I am so fucking sick of that thumb’s up gesture.

  48. 48
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Pelosi has been doing this for almost 40 years. AOC is 29 with all the pluses and minuses that being 29 brings.

  49. 49
    Baud says:

    Kamala seems more animated than in other interviews I’ve seen her in.

  50. 50
    dr. bloor says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Oh, damn. The gumline should have tipped me off to that being Kirk. I really need to get my eyeglass prescription update.

  51. 51
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @germy:

    Through the map and off the looking glass.

    Although it’s been said many times, many ways — I hate this time line.

  52. 52

    @Adam L Silverman: The times, they are a’changing

  53. 53

    @TenguPhule: The relevant committees are already working on this. Whether their work should be done by a separate committee is another matter.

  54. 54
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    Horses for courses. I think a good team needs both work horses and show ponies. As far as I can tell, the Democrats don’t have a lot of effective show ponies (as opposed to preening weenies), so I’m not sweating whether OAC is “just” a show pony, though I think she’s at least a bit of a work horse. She sends a clear message that pisses off the opposition and excites the base. The fact that she also preps for AND performs at hearings is a plus.

    ETA: To be clear, I think most of the Democrats are solid work horses, not preening weenies.

  55. 55
    dr. bloor says:

    @Adam L Silverman: True enough. AOC’s plainly smart and invariably impressive during hearings. It would be a shame to see her career derailed because she ignored what she learned in Ted Kennedy’s office and listened to those numpties.

  56. 56
    lamh36 says:

    I think that Ayanna Pressley (who unlike AOC and the other women, as Boston City Councilor has some “legistlative” experience) is being globbed onto this “Squad” without actually being a member of it, just because of some profiles of which of the 4 of them that was done in one of the mags. When asked about AOC’s remarks about Pelosi not being comfortable with women of color or something (which itself is stupid BTW…hello members of the CBC would disagree) Pressley quickly distanced her self from it. I can see a call from Pressley to AOC telling “the Squad” to keep her name out of their group.

    IDK bout anyone else, but I have not seen the same things on social media from Pressley that’s I’ve seen from AOC, Talib & Omar. Omar has already fallen back a bit, but she also gets into the thick of it too often, mostly due to racist like Tucker Carlson.

    Pressley may have been dubbed a member of the group but of the 4 of them, she is only one with a presence who doesn’t seem to want to be in any spotlight. So this business with AOC trying to come at Pelosi with the “race card” is a step too far for Pressley I think

    The question becomes why might Pressley initialed had followed down the path AOC et al led? IDK, maybe because of the social media AOC amassed (although Tilab & Omar have not had the same success, which I have a theory as to why, but that’s another story), Pressley by joining with the popular girls could make a name for her self along w/AOC? But the problem with hitching your ride with the popular girls ala “mean girls” is that you get don’t get any benefit of the doubt when/if backlash happens.

    My money says you see Pressley continue to distance herself from the bunch

  57. 57
    trollhattan says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    ‘E’s just pretendin’ if he doesn’t scoop out one of ‘is eyes.

    #NotOurSammy

  58. 58
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I understand that. And it has been too long coming. It doesn’t mean that AOC is going to be the one to do that as opposed to Katie Porter or Sharice Davids.

  59. 59
    Baud says:

    @lamh36:

    She’s smart. This whole thing got out of hand.

  60. 60
    Miss Bianca says:

    Running the risk of undue crudity, here, Adam…as opposed to undue crudites, where I say, “bring it on”… ; )

    I would say that AOC’s public remarks regarding Pelosi in particular and Democrats in general lead me to wonder whether she has absorbed a basic workplace axiom:

    “Never shit where you gotta eat.”

  61. 61
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: Oy!

  62. 62
    smintheus says:

    It wasn’t a test, it was a bribe. Pelosi has little apparent interest in promoting somebody who showed even before being sworn in that she’s willing to rock the boat. AOC is smart enough not to talk about Pelosi trying to buy her loyalty.

  63. 63
    Kent says:

    Legislating is hard work and there is a steep learning curve. AOC and the rest of the freshman have a lot to learn. I offer up this classic Barney Frank clip when he schooled a bunch of GOP rubes on House Rules when they went into the minority in 2007. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWU0HQTpF5s

  64. 64
    Jay says:

    Dead kids,

    Concentration Camps,

    ICE sweeps,

    Nazi’s in the White Supremacy House,

    Overt Nazi Republicans,

    Another Nazi mass shooting,

    Dem’s in Disarray!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  65. 65
    Heywood J. says:

    @Martin: This. If Pelosi chooses to ignore that the “blue wave” was powered by voters who expected things to get done, it’s at her own peril. Hell, what happened to getting Trump’s NY state tax returns released? Remember when that was a thing? The NY state leg helpfully obliged and passed a bill to do exactly that. So what’s the holdup? Those tax returns are the Rosetta Stone to Trump’s lifetime of malfeasance.

    I do not understand the competing logical trains of impeachment is a waste of time because the Senate will never convict and we must send more bills to the Senate, even though McConnell has already said he won’t even allow them to a floor vote. Why is one an exercise in futility, but the other is some sort of demonstration of responsible governance?

    I guess I need to sign up for some of them eleventh-dimensional chess lessons. Or, and I’m just spitballing here, maybe the United States could use a political party that actually represents the interests of liberal voters. Couldn’t hurt to try it.

  66. 66
    Mike in NC says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Just turned 65, but oh to be 29 again and do so many things differently.

  67. 67
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: She’s young. As I’ve been saying since last November: “she’ll learn and grow and round out or she’ll be out”.

  68. 68

    @Adam L Silverman: But it might mean that Pelosi needs to modify her thinking. Not change entirely – there’s a lot she can teach the young’uns – but right now she doesn’t seem to know how to talk to them. Or listen.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    2009 called. It wants its blog comments back.

  70. 70
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Jay:

    Yes, let’s hope this is a tempest in a BJ teapot, because there are certainly more pressing issues on the national agenda.

  71. 71
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Heywood J.: I don’t get the strategy either. If you can’t do impeachment because McConnell won’t take it up once the House is done, then what’s the point of all this messaging legislation because he won’t take any of that up either. Unless he can use it to embarrass the Democrats? Especially because no one in the US, except the people that are politics junkies, are even going to know that the House passed a ton of stuff and McConnell killed it.

  72. 72
    Gin & Tonic says:

    A bit OT, but Pelosi seems to be grooming our own David Cicilline quite well, and he’s doing the legislating from a clearly left perspective without grandstanding. Yeah, maybe his Twitter game isn’t at AOC’s level, but he’s effective and showing up more often on the tube as the voice of Democrats.

  73. 73
    dr. bloor says:

    This. If Pelosi chooses to ignore that the “blue wave” was powered by voters who expected things to get done, it’s at her own peril. Hell, what happened to getting Trump’s NY state tax returns released? Remember when that was a thing? The NY state leg helpfully obliged and passed a bill to do exactly that. So what’s the holdup?

    (1) There is no “blue wave” when you think about one country as actually being 435 individual congressional districts. No offense,but I think Pelosi has a better sense than you do of how that plays out.

    (2) Cuomo signed the bill re: NY tax returns something like two days ago?

    Sitting in the back seat yelling “ARE WE THERE YET” is not an actual strategy, nor is it helpful.

  74. 74
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Heywood J.:

    Ochen’ interesno. Ia by khotela podpisat’sia na vash informatsionnyi biuleten’.

  75. 75
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    “This whole thing” would be her Ego.

  76. 76
    Mary G says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Katie Porter and Lauren Underwood are two that will go far, I think.

  77. 77
    Jay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    This am’s circular firing squad with bump stocks, with the new Nym St. Petersburg contributors was quite instructive.

  78. 78
    Heywood J. says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Right. At the very least, it’s a show of what true party discipline looks like. Trump could propose a bill to allow eating live babies, and McConnell would make it happen with nary a peep. Pelosi looks like a cat lady who’s finally acquired one too many felines to herd. And her griping to a hack like MoDo didn’t help.

    It’s amazing to me that the party that supposedly owns the entertainment industry is completely incapable of putting together a marginally competent marketing/messaging narrative.

  79. 79

    @Miss Bianca: Also known as “piss out of the tent, not in to the tent”.

  80. 80
    trollhattan says:

    Now they’re seeking justice. Until her lawsuit was withdrawn I had presumed the raped 13 YO would kill Trump’s campaign. Whatever tactics were used on her in 2016, there’s safety in numbers today. Make the bastards pay.

    At least a dozen new victims have come forward to claim they were sexually abused by Jeffrey Epstein even as the multimillionaire money manager tries to convince a federal judge to allow him to await a sex trafficking trial from the comfort of the same $77 million Manhattan mansion where he’s accused of luring teenage girls into unwanted sex acts.

    Following Epstein’s arrest Saturday in New Jersey, four women have reached out to New York lawyer David Boies, and at least 10 other women have approached other lawyers who have represented dozens of Epstein’s alleged victims in the past.

    Jack Scarola, a Palm Beach attorney, said at least five women, all of whom were minors at the time of their alleged encounters with Epstein, have reached out to either him or Fort Lauderdale lawyer Brad Edwards.

    “The people we are speaking to are underage victims in Florida and in New York. They are not individuals whose claims have previously been part of any law enforcement investigation,’’ Scarola said.

    The new accusers are surfacing as Epstein’s attorneys argue their client is being tried on sex trafficking and conspiracy charges that for the most part were resolved years ago in Palm Beach. His legal team filed a motion Thursday for pre-trial release arguing that Epstein has maintained a “spotless” record since prosecutors in South Florida set aside a federal sex trafficking investigation a decade ago and allowed him to plead guilty to lesser state charges.

  81. 81
    coppersmith says:

    Maybe, someday A.O.C. will be able to impress Maureen Dowd, and Charlie Rose will agree.

  82. 82
    dr. bloor says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I think Ben Ray Lujan is the guy. I like Ciciline–he’s my rep–but I think he’s going to be more of a Hoyer in the long run, if he doesn’t try for a seat when Whitehouse or Reed hang up the gloves.

  83. 83
    janesays says:

    @dr. bloor: I don’t buy that impeachment without conviction means game over. Because everyone already knows that the Senate will never convict, even if there is authenticated video footage of the orange asspony literally shooting someone in the middle of 5th Avenue.

    I don’t believe the public will hold House Democrats responsible for Senate Republican intransigence, if the House Democrats can make a solid case as to why this fucker has absolutely no business being the President of the United States and is wholly unfit for office.

    But… on the latter potential scenario, I am in complete agreement with you. If the House moves forward with an impeachment inquiry and the end result is a failure to get 218 votes to impeach the MF’er, then we can kiss our 2020 election hopes goodbye. And the Republic itself as well, because Velveetamort will almost certainly get to appoint at least one and possibly two more justices to SCOTUS if he gets a second term.

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Good to hear.

  85. 85
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Jay:

    Lots of new nyms on all these BJ “dems in disarray” posts.

  86. 86

    @Cheryl Rofer: The other side of the coin is the young’uns listening.

  87. 87
    Mike in NC says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The two mouthbreathers on the right could have been extras from ‘Deliverance’.

  88. 88
    zhena gogolia says:

    Time for bed. I was hoping to see some new topic discussed before I turned in, since this one’s been chewed over all day.

  89. 89
    dr. bloor says:

    @Heywood J.:

    It’s amazing to me that the party that supposedly owns the entertainment industry is completely incapable of putting together a marginally competent marketing/messaging narrative.

    They don’t own the entertainment industry, and if you think a legislative body composed of members who fall in line with anything the designated leader proposes is desirable, I don’t want to live in your country.

  90. 90
    zhena gogolia says:

    @dr. bloor:

    Pochemu by net? Moskva ochen’ krasivyi gorod!

  91. 91
    Jay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    What was interesting was the numbers of Old Nym’s willing to join into the circular firing squads based on Faux News fake stories long debunked and old grudges.

    Pisses me off to no end that somebody debunks shit at #29 and an Old Nym brings it back up a #52

  92. 92
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Jay:

    Yes, it’s tiresome. As I said about 12 hours ago, I’d almost rather be arguing about Pete Buttigieg.

  93. 93
    dr. bloor says:

    @zhena gogolia: Moscow girls might make me sing and shout, but I don’t want their fathers enacting laws and picking judges.

  94. 94
    Hoodie says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yep. Everything thing is always different to someone who is 29. Yes, things change, but a lot of shit remains the same. That shit AOCs staffer said was stupid and she needs to fire his ass or put him on a cage.

  95. 95
    smintheus says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Was his father a mob lawyer?

  96. 96
    Kent says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Exactly. AOC isn’t running for anything and few if any of us will ever have a chance to vote for her. The only really interesting Dem topics at the moment are: (1) who is going to be Trump, and (2) how the HELL are we going to pry the gavel out of McConnell’s withered claws.

  97. 97
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dr. bloor: Cole’s touching me!!!!

  98. 98
    Jay says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’d rather discuss than argue,

    It really disheartens me, the number of Faux Fake Talking Points that get dragged into this so called top 10,000 “lefty” blog.

  99. 99
  100. 100
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mary G: I hope they all go far.

  101. 101

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Listening is needed on both sides.

    I do think that it’s harder for the olds to do, and, right now, more necessary.

  102. 102
    Anne Laurie says:

    Thanks for posting this, Adam — I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Since shortly after AOC arrived in DC, it’s seemed to me like Pelosi has been testing to see whether she would be a worthy successor. If you’re right (and I’m afraid you might be!), AOC isn’t even aware she’s being tested… and *that* would be the real failure. There are, as you say, other extremely promising new Democrats, but not all of them are in seats as safe as AOC’s district!

  103. 103
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Heywood J.: The MoDo interview was a self inflicted wound. Should never have given that interview.

  104. 104
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @trollhattan: I know that Lisa Bloom indicated she’d had several women reach out to her as well.

  105. 105

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I do think that it’s harder for the olds to do

    I disagree, I remember when I was 29.

  106. 106
    Jay says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Agree.

    As a tail end boomer, I got a shit hand, rather than “getting mine”.

    Nothing like what my neices and nephews face.

  107. 107
    Kay says:

    I hate this fight. I think we need both of them for different things. Why can’t we have that?

  108. 108
    Jay says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Your 29 is not todays 29.

  109. 109
    wasabi gasp says:

    Use the force, Sandy.

  110. 110
    Jay says:

    @Kay:

    There are vested interests in keeping the pot stirred.

  111. 111

    @Jay: I can see what’s happening and recognize it.

  112. 112
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mike in NC: From left to right you’ve got:
    Ali Alexander, aka Ali Akbar – convicted felon, Jacob Wohl co-conspirator and Sammy Davis Jr cosplay aficionado.
    James O’Keefe – plead down to a Federal misdemeanor for illegally entering Senator Landrieu’s office and attempting to place a wiretap on her phone system.
    Charlie Kirk – he run’s TP USA and his dad works for the President. He also accused Bob Mueller of overriding Alex Acosta in 2007 to let Epstein off the hook.
    Dim Jim Hoft – the Stupidest Man on the Internet. Nuff Said!

  113. 113
  114. 114
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @zhena gogolia: I’m getting ready to do a post on Srebrenica.

  115. 115
    eemom says:

    Just out of curiosity, what would it take for you people to stop sucking Pelosi’s dick?

    @Adam L Silverman:

    The MoDo interview was a self inflicted wound. Should never have given that interview.

    Yeah, no shit. And I fucking love it that the resident clown brigade who defends her every chickenshit caving to trump/mcconnell because they might say meeeeeeaaaaaan things about Democrats to the press if she doesn’t — instead of, you know, MAKING the Democratic case for NOT caving to the press as befits the Speaker of the House — have no problem at all with her talking to MoDo of all fucking people.

  116. 116
    Mnemosyne says:

    @lamh36:

    IIRC, Pressley and AOC became friends IRL during the House orientation, so I think it’s more like when your friend drags you into their Twitter beefs when you’re not interested in it.

    Tlaib is the other “Justice Democrat” and she’s kind of a pain in the ass, frankly.

  117. 117
  118. 118
    Jay says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Lived experience is different from observed experience.

    Eg. Biden.

  119. 119
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Adam L Silverman: That’ll help.

  120. 120
    Heywood J. says:

    @dr. bloor:

    ….if you think a legislative body composed of members who fall in line with anything the designated leader proposes is desirable, I don’t want to live in your country.

    I think a party leader’s ability to lead their party is a core competency. I think a party leader that can’t muster the horses to do their basic constitutional duty — that is, to investigate a clear pattern of crime and illegality on the part of the chief executive — needs to check their job description more closely. They weren’t voted in to pass empty stunt legislation and issue subpoenae and letters that are publicly ignored.

    I think Adam is right about AOC currently failing a test she didn’t know she was taking (although she seems to be a quick learner and adaptable). I’d suggest that Pelosi is doing the same thing right now, because inaction at this point is a greater sign of weakness than actually trying and failing. Waiting for the next election is not a viable option, especially when the last election was supposedly a clear message.

    Hopefully I’m wrong. I’m sure Mueller will show up to testify next week and draw them a map this time, and then they can spend the rest of the summer dithering over that.

  121. 121
    Jay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    She’s gotten 8 Nazi’s arrested and jailed, which is, ( checks math) 7 more than the Portland Police Bureau, despite 9 murders and 117 assaults.

  122. 122
    Belafon says:

    Interesting theory. Then Pelosi failed to notice that AOC has her own agenda as well. And while they might be lining up in the same general direction, the current leadership is actually proving the failure of just attempting to do everything from committee positions. You’re not going to beat Trump and McConnell from them. It’s going to require getting out in front.

  123. 123
    JR says:

    Honestly, guys, not going to waste a moment’s breath complaining about AOC or Pelosi. They’re on my side, as far as I’m concerned.

  124. 124
    Heywood J. says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Yeah. Not really the thing one would expect someone with Pelosi’s presumed intelligence and experience to do. This whole thing is like watching a slow-motion train wreck, and the clown-car presidential campaign isn’t helping.

  125. 125
    Belafon says:

    @Heywood J.: Or what you said.

  126. 126
    janesays says:

    @lamh36: Pressley’s primary victory was a near mirror image of AOC’s primary victory – she’s a young woman of color who had a huge primary upset over a powerful long-tenured white male Democrat establishment figure in a major U.S. city. I think they have a strong kinship because of that. And their political positions are extremely aligned.

  127. 127
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I think a party leader’s ability to lead their party is a core competency. I think a party leader that can’t muster the horses to do their basic constitutional duty — that is, to investigate a clear pattern of crime and illegality on the part of the chief executive — needs to check their job description more closely. They weren’t voted in to pass empty stunt legislation and issue subpoenae and letters that are publicly ignored.

    this reminds me of all the people who whined about Obama being a weak president cause they had heard anecdotes about LBJ getting the Civil Rights Act passed by peeing with the bathroom door open and shit

  128. 128
  129. 129
    lamh36 says:

    @Mnemosyne: Ah…yeah…I remember that now. thx. It’s def like you said, and of the 3 other women, Pressley is the only one of the 3 who HASN’T gotten much personal news or animus thrown her way except when she gets dragged in with the “squad” mess.

    Tilab will continues to be part of the mess, because it’s the only way she seems to be able to get any attention. She doesn’t have the appeal that AOC have to some. Ilhar has already created some backlash of her own making for being naive and saying things she shouldn’t or with not enough nuance or context (and that’s not even including the racist bullshit she gets thrown her way, seemingly randomly from Fox).

    I agree with Adam…one of the things I learned in one of my HCM classes is the importance of grooming a successor is when a mgr is retiring, esp if the mgr truly cares about the company they have been a part of. So I could DEF see this as a test from Pelosi as Adam said

  130. 130
    Heywood J. says:

    @JR: It’s a conversation worth having. At the very least, it’s obviously two completely different approaches to how the future of the party should look. But what we’ve heard from Democratic leaders since Trump started gaining momentum in the 2016 primaries is how urgent things would be with him in charge, and now how urgent they’ve become. Seems like there should be a sense of urgency in their actions to match that rhetoric.

  131. 131
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @smintheus: Yes.

  132. 132
    dr. bloor says:

    @Heywood J.: We’ll have to agree to disagree here. I don’t disagree with your understanding of what a leader should be, but I do think it minimizes the limitations in Pelosi’s power over her caucus (see: Rogers, Will, Democratic Party). She’s clearly betting that another two years of the majority in the House by not hanging the moderate wing out to dry is preferable to going balls to the wall and trying to send charges to the Senate. She might be wrong in terms of the impact of inaction on the electorate and lose the House in 2020 because of/despite her decision, but she’s absolutely right in her calculation that the Senate will not remove Trump from office. We”ll just have to see how it plays out.

  133. 133
    lamh36 says:

    Anyway…I don’t really care anymore bout this..as folks said…bigger fish to fry.

    final thought though…I think even AOC realizes she crossed a line and if she’s smart, which I think he is, she’ll fired the CoS and keep it moving…cause if she’s reelected and Pelosi’s retired, who knows what she’ll get as the next Speaker…and if some folks all of a sudden hate Nancy…whoever gets is after Pelosi retires…woo boy..gird ur loins

    @thehill
    Question: “Do you think [Speaker Pelosi] has racial animus, is she a racist?”

    Rep.
    @AOC
    : “No, no absolutely not.” (link: http://hill.cm/JkUXagm) hill.cm/JkUXagm

  134. 134
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Tell me about it.

  135. 135
    joel hanes says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    what’s the point of all this messaging legislation

    Practice. Training. Just as the Field Artillery spends much of its time practicing shooting big guns, and moving, and communicating, without an actual enemy.

    Congressional staffs are too small, and freshmen come to the House with little understanding of procedure, and little understanding of how to frame a law.

    .If/when the day comes that the House can expect to get a bill to become a law, the Dem caucus will be ready, and some of these bills will come back to the floor, renewed and improved.

  136. 136
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: That’s only because they translated the hieroglyphs so there’s a record in English.//

  137. 137

    Adam, while I can support your conclusion that AOC doesn’t understand that she is being tested, it doesn’t follow that she is faing at it. Where is your proof that she is failing at “the work” other than turning down the climate committee, which she knows is dead in the water until 2020 when assignments will change anyway.

  138. 138
    cain says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    James O’Keefe – plead down to a Federal misdemeanor for illegally entering Senator Landrieu’s office and attempting to place a wiretap on her phone system.

    Why do these people don’t get jail time? It used to be that prosecutors would give harsh sentences as a way to not have copy cats. So it seem crazy that you wouldn’t fuck some shit up and put this guy behind bars.. you know he’ll cry like the pussy he is.

  139. 139
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: @Omnes Omnibus: My middle name is sunshine, rainbows, puppies, and kittens!

  140. 140
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @joel hanes:

    Just as the Field Artillery spends much of its time practicing shooting big guns, and moving, and communicating, without an actual enemy.

    Bullshit, those burnt out tank hulls know what they did.

  141. 141
    Kent says:

    @joel hanes:

    what’s the point of all this messaging legislation

    Practice. Training. Just as the Field Artillery spends much of its time practicing shooting big guns, and moving, and communicating, without an actual enemy.

    Congressional staffs are too small, and freshmen come to the House with little understanding of procedure, and little understanding of how to frame a law.

    .If/when the day comes that the House can expect to get a bill to become a law, the Dem caucus will be ready, and some of these bills will come back to the floor, renewed and improved.

    As I posted upstream. Here is classic Barney Frank schooling freshmen GOP lawmakers on House procedure good and hard: https://youtu.be/RWU0HQTpF5s An absolute classic.

  142. 142
    Jay says:

    @cain:

    They are wipple.

  143. 143
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @joel hanes: I don’t disagree on that point, but the stated strategic communication strategy is to pass this stuff to signal to the American people that the Democratic majority in the House is actively doing the people’s business. Yet none of it will become law. Almost none of it will actually be reported on. And the only thing that the vast majority of Americans will know is that, once again, the US Congress accomplished absolutely nothing over the previous two years.

  144. 144
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @cain: If I’m recalling correctly the father of one of his co-conspirators, who was also arrested with him, was either a US Attorney or a judge. You do the math.

  145. 145
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: unicorns or GTFO!

  146. 146
    Jay says:

    We're here with a massive crowd of New Yorkers to demand an end to the @amazon's ties with DHS & ICE. #AmazonVSImmigrants#NoTech4ICE#CloseTheCamps pic.twitter.com/8010YSRX2b— New Economy Project (@NewEconomyNYC) July 11, 2019

  147. 147
  148. 148
    BC in Illinois says:

    Nancy Pelosi:

    When I arrived [in Congress] in 1987, only a small fraction of the representatives were women, but the few who were there generously shared their knowledge and political wisdom. First among them was the elegant and politically astute Lindy Boggs of Louisiana, who . . . represent[ed] New Orleans from 1973 to 1991.

    Lindy taught me to think differently. I remember telling her that I thought I had too many opportunities, that perhaps I should give up one of my positions. This was prior to my election to Congress, when I was chair of the 1984 Democratic National Convention Host Committee and also chaired the committee that enforced the delegate selection rules.

    In her wonderful southern accent, she said, “Darlin’, no man would ever, ever have that thought.”

    And then she gave me a signifigant piece of advice.

    “Nancy,” she said, “know thy power.”

    Know your power.

    (From Nancy Pelosi’s 2008 book, Know Your Power: A Message to America’s Daughters, p.125.)

    It seems that Speaker Pelosi may have been trying to mentor Congresswoman Occasio-Cortez, the way that she had been mentored 30+ years ago.

  149. 149
    plato says:

    @Martin:

    Pelosi’s test is an institutionalist test. I’m not sure that institutionalism is in any way a viable approach any longer. I think Trump is the first huge indication of that.

    Yup. With totus thug and his minions destroying every ‘institution’ coming in his way, the old way is the stale way.

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Not unless I’m armed for gator!

  151. 151
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    O’Keefe and colleagues were arrested in the Hale Boggs Federal Complex in New Orleans in January 2010 and charged with entering federal property under false pretenses with the intent of committing a felony, at the office of United States Senator Mary Landrieu, a Democrat. His three fellow activists, who were dressed as telephone repairmen when apprehended, included Robert Flanagan, the son of William Flanagan, acting U.S. Attorney of the Eastern District of Louisiana.

  152. 152
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I did no such thing!

  153. 153
    lurkypants says:

    About the necessity for all the legislation that won’t get passed: when a bill goes through Congress, it dies if not passed by the end of that Congress. However, the next Congress can re-introduce old bills, which means that their associated legislative history comes along with them. That means that Congress can rely on those prior hearings, reports, testimony, debates, etc., and don’t have to repeat everything over again. By putting in the work now while they know that they won’t have to be considering many Senate bills or joint resolutions, they can save themselves some time and effort later, and don’t have to take the chance that, say, witnesses or evidence won’t be available. They also have certain stuff on the record now that they might not get if they waited, and that can be used in later bills.

    tl;dr: it’s not a waste of time.

  154. 154
    dww44 says:

    @jl: I agree with your assessment .AOC is plenty bright. Whether she’s all for show, well, it’s too early to tell. I also like all the others. I think we Dems have lucked into something good and promising with this freshman class and I hope that Pelosi sees that. I’m not sure that she does because I’m disappointed in her approach to Trump and the administration.

  155. 155
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: Thanks, couldn’t remember if it was a US Attorney or a Federal judge.

  156. 156
    tobie says:

    I find this whole theme tiresome and the efforts to both-sides it annoying. AOC and her chief of staff have been taking jabs at the Speaker from Day One. AOC and the Sunrise Mvmt staged a protest outside the speaker’s office during orientation. This was not coordinated with the Speaker and would have been a disaster, were it not for the fact that Pelosi knew how to make lemonade out of lemons. AOC’s great on twitter; her work on committees is fine, though I think her ability to ask leading questions to friendly witnesses to establish a narrative is overrated.

    As for the thesis that her committee assignments are a test: well, I would agree with that if her assignments were truly more onerous than that of all the other new Congress members. They are not. Look at Katie Hill. She’s VICE CHAIR of the Oversight Committee, sits on three other committees, and is on 4 subcommittees. Now, that’s a full roster. The assignments & positions AOC has do not come close.

  157. 157
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Adam L Silverman: yeah, he should be banned for that!

  158. 158
    Jay says:

    @tobie:

    The Sunrise Movement staged a display outside of the Speakers Office.

    The Hill immediately went to Yurtle the Turtles Office Manager for the hot take,

    And thus your Reichwing talking points are embeded and embraced as holy grails amongst top 10,000 lefty blog commenters, some of whom, might be from Russia.

  159. 159
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Jay: you’re particularly incoherent today

  160. 160
  161. 161
  162. 162
    tobie says:

    @Jay: Even people like Ryan Grimm, who is no friend of Nancy Pelosi, said that the protest was meant to pressure Pelosi and could have gone wildly wrong. Pelosi saved the day and the fact that you believe this was all a pre-arranged “display” is a sign of how hard she worked not to embarrass a new member of Congress.

  163. 163
    Martin says:

    @dr. bloor: AOC isn’t the House whip. She’s the House activist. She’s doing the thing Obama always said – you have to make me do it. Activism matters. Outrage matters. Counting also matters. Most of the democratic base are millennials or younger and they aren’t going to be exposed to the issues reading Maureen Dowd or watching Meet the Press. It’s going to be through social media, podcasts, all of these alternate media sources. AOC is great at that. We’ll see how that converts to votes, but I’ll say this – AOC ousted an incumbent in a race she wasn’t supposed to win, and she’s generally outmaneuvered her critics through social media, and young voters identify with her. She wouldn’t be a household name if she wasn’t reaching people.

    Now maybe she’ll grow into a whip role, but you really need to know the individuals in the caucus, and that’s unfair to put on a new member.

  164. 164
    Heywood J. says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    this reminds me of all the people who whined about Obama being a weak president cause they had heard anecdotes about LBJ getting the Civil Rights Act passed by peeing with the bathroom door open and shit

    I do recall wishing that after that “you lie” asshole spouted off, that Obama would have got on the phone to the party chair and said, “I don’t care if it costs $50 million and a private detective to go through his garbage, I want that fuckin’ guy gone!”. Once they saw there were no consequences to their behavior, they moved in for the kill.

    I miss Obama, he’s a genuinely decent person. Unfortunately, that’s a weakness when your opponents literally have no shame or scruples.

  165. 165
    eemom says:

    @Heywood J.:

    I think a party leader’s ability to lead their party is a core competency. I think a party leader that can’t muster the horses to do their basic constitutional duty — that is, to investigate a clear pattern of crime and illegality on the part of the chief executive — needs to check their job description more closely. They weren’t voted in to pass empty stunt legislation and issue subpoenae and letters that are publicly ignored.

    Wait — do you mean to imply that a “leader” is somebody who takes an action BEFORE the pollsters assure her that every Democratic voter in the country is cool with it?

    And that a responsible public servant would NOT shrink from taking the constitutionally prescribed action for removing from the oval office a lying, wannabe fascist tyrant who shits on the rule of law eight ways to Sunday and tortures children out of fear that he’ll tell MORE lies about that?

    You crazy old Russian troll you.

  166. 166
    mvr says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Both Martin’s comment and your brief one before this seem instructive. I’d be happy to see your longer take. FWIW, I like both NP and AOC and think they’ve got different roles to play and each probably have some work to do to play those roles well in light of the other’s positions.

  167. 167
    frosty says:

    @RAVEN: no shit. And I don’t have him pied on the phone yet.

  168. 168
    Jay says:

    @tobie:

    The Hill quoted Mitch’s spokesman for the cite.

    One would think the woke would be media savvy.

  169. 169
    eemom says:

    I also love how the “I’m SOOOO tired of this” exasperated sighers here think this is about nothing more than a real or imaginary pissing contest between Pelosi and AOC.

    Who fucking CARES what Pelosi is “trying to teach” the next generation? The way things are going there won’t be one.

  170. 170
    Jay says:

    @Martin:

    👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

  171. 171
    dr. bloor says:

    @Martin:

    She’s doing the thing Obama always said – you have to make me do it.

    But AOC isn’t really making Pelosi do anything. She’s not whipping votes among the Congressional members, which are the coin of Pelosi’s realm, she’s just making noise. Hillary Clinton bagged 3 million more votes than Trump, but didn’t get squat because those votes weren’t distributed in a way that translated to winning anything. Pelosi doesn’t care if 90% of AOC’s constituents are itching for impeachment; she’s more concerned with getting to 51% in some vulnerable member’s district. AOC isn’t doing anything to help that cause.

  172. 172
    plato says:

    wingnuts welfare, brazilian style

    Jair Bolsonaro, the far-right president of Brazil, has invited his son to become ambassador to the US.

    Eduardo Bolsonaro, 35, who is currently serving as a congressman and advises his father on foreign affairs, told reporters he would accept the post if it were offered.

    The position of ambassador has been vacant since April.

    Mr Bolsonaro was elected last year after a successful campaign he said had been inspired by Donald Trump.

  173. 173
    kindness says:

    The purists think they’re helping the party. They think the bulk of America wants what they want. I think they’re only half right in that American’s do want a fair shake but they don’t want a socialist republic. And sadly the other half is killing the party’s ability to present a coherent, responsible and adult face to the American public. Which is really how our media judges us. And we are coming across horribly right now.

    Sad thing is we agree on 80 – 90% of everything. We don’t present that face to the world. Too many like to just scrap. They don’t care if it’s their own. Teenagers feeling their testosterone.

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    Socratic Me says:

    @dr. bloor:

    I have called Ben Ray lujan’s office more times from info that is coming from the squad than at any time before. And since he is running for Senate now in a purple state that isn’t moderate so much as split between the liberal north and those whose minds have become polluted by living too close to Texas in the south, he actually needs people like me to show up. So his staff listens. And they don’t get great, but they back off of the truly stupid stuff like dragging Omar in a way that reinforces stupid GOP messaging.

    I am not alone. And while I used to think “I am just a kid and my kind don’t vote, I and my peers are all pushing 40. Many of us vote. Most of us get our news from social media because it became clear long ago that tv news was as trash as trash could be.

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    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Heywood J.: Moved in for what kill? He passed ACA after that remark. He enacted a whole bunch of shit. He was re-elected in a landslide.

    meanwhile Wilmer lost by 3,708,294 votes

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    Heywood J. says:

    @dr. bloor:

    We’ll have to agree to disagree here. I don’t disagree with your understanding of what a leader should be, but I do think it minimizes the limitations in Pelosi’s power over her caucus (see: Rogers, Will, Democratic Party).

    Fair enough. I like Will Rogers as well as the next person, but I would offer the suggestion that maybe it’s past time to stop thinking of the chronic indiscipline as strength of diversity or whatever. That may have been true in the past, but against the bloodless, lawless machine of the current Republicon party, it’s just bringing a spork to a gunfight. Either they pull together and figure out how to by god get shit done, or they learn to accept the fact that they’ll never be able to select another SCOTUS or federal judge again. Hang together or hang separately.

    She’s clearly betting that another two years of the majority in the House by not hanging the moderate wing out to dry is preferable to going balls to the wall and trying to send charges to the Senate. She might be wrong in terms of the impact of inaction on the electorate and lose the House in 2020 because of/despite her decision, but she’s absolutely right in her calculation that the Senate will not remove Trump from office. We”ll just have to see how it plays out.

    I agree with your assessment of her strategic calculus. But I strongly disagree with that strategic calculus. Obviously the Senate will not convict, but simply the act of opening up investigations to impeach will gain access to more information and documents, and empower them to issue subpoenae that will actually stick, that can be enforced.

    Again, if we all agree that the situation is urgent, then by definition that calls for urgent action. There are a number of options available to House leadership and committees that can move in that direction and gain momentum as more corruption comes to light. Already half the country thinks Trump should be impeached. Just as a matter of basic game theory, I believe that inaction will discourage more voters than trying and failing. The people that would be angered by impeachment are already going to show up.

    As you say, we’ll see how this all plays out. I still hold out hope that Pelosi has a plan, but more and more I find myself wondering what she’s thinking, what she’s waiting for. Depending on how she handles it and how it turns out, I think it could end up being a changing of the guard for the party, a transition from the old folks who think there’s still some common ground to be found with the lawless fuckers across the aisle, and the newer, younger group who understand them for what they are.

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    Heywood J. says:

    @eemom:Спасибо дружище!

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    Heywood J. says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: The name “Merrick Garland” mean anything to you? Not to mention the dozens of federal district and circuit appointments that got held up until Orange Foolius was installed on the throne. He did get some stuff done, and some of it still hasn’t been eradicated yet. But they drank his milkshake on a lot of things. And I wish he would have mounted that little prick’s skull on the wall at the time, pour encourager les autres.

  179. 179
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    Adam, this is a minor note to a post with which I generally agree: while “Congresswoman” is both technically correct and grammatical, it’s unnecessarily gendered (not to mention kind of clunky). “Representative” is just fine. English has more than enough nouns that can’t easily be made gender-neutral, and we should take any opportunity to de-emphasize women’s gender as the salient part of their identity when their roles or achievements are really the point. Yes, it’s clearly a point of interest that a female Speaker – the first! – may be doing this to groom female successors, but it works to their favor if we normalize this as a discussion about women in power and not women in power.

    I say all this not to give you a hard time but because I know you’re an ally – I wouldn’t bother if you weren’t.

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    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Heywood J.: show us on the doll where Obama touched you

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    wasabi gasp says:

    @kindness: Wielding “purist” against the pathogen is a roleplay fav.

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    Just One More Canuck says:

    @Adam L Silverman: the worst and the dimmest

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    Julie Chita says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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    tony daniel says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I think the reasons why AOC turned down the climate change committee appointment were perfectly reasonable. From the interview in the New Yorker Cortez: I asked that it have a mission to try to draft legislation by 2020, so that we essentially have a two-year mission to put together, whether it’s a Green New Deal or whether it’s some sweeping climate-change legislation, that the select committee have a legislative mission. I asked for it to have subpoena power, which most committees do. The last select committee had subpoena power, but now this one doesn’t. And I asked for the members who sit on the select committee to not take any fossil-fuel money. And none of those requests were accommodated. And so I didn’t join the committee.

  185. 185
    EriktheRed says:

    @Heywood J.:

    I do not understand the competing logical trains of impeachment is a waste of time because the Senate will never convict and we must send more bills to the Senate, even though McConnell has already said he won’t even allow them to a floor vote. Why is one an exercise in futility, but the other is some sort of demonstration of responsible governance?

    This.

    1000 times this.

  186. 186
    Feckless says:

    oh yes a test involving work that will never be made into law and is a total waste of my tax my money.
    thank you so much speaker pelosi you’re a genius plan ro “pass” bunch of meaningless bills because the voters will totally appreciate things you passed in Congress that were never actually enacted into law because Senate and Trump will block everything.
    Head all of the pin legislation in this session is a total waste of my tax money
    There is a reason why evil is winning and that reason is 20 years of political malpractice by Schumer pelosi. In a functioning democracy these useless s*** heads would have been gone decades ago

  187. 187
    Feckless says:

    Remember when pelosi told us we had to stop the war with our votes and then we won the Congress in 2006 and she did …nothing.
    she’s asking for those same votes again so she can let the war criminals get away with it. again

    But criticism of her actual record is either sexist or Republican, so here we go marching to defeat with the general who has never won anything but pyrric victories.

    The ‘squad” gets a death threat minute. But Nancy spends time heaping abuse. That seems test enough for me.

  188. 188
    Feckless says:

    Just let Trump and the Russians control the narrative that should be a winner.
    Stupid incompetent overpaid assholes.
    Whew

  189. 189
    les says:

    AOC’s answer tells me she both doesn’t realize that this is a test and that she is also failing it because she doesn’t understand she is being tested.

    This is really tiresome. How is AOC failing this “test?” To the extent I can see it, she’s been one of the most prepared and most effective questioners in the public hearings by the committees she’s on. What’s the standard here? She’s too new to care about issues the leadership doesn’t want to address? She’s just a yute, she needs to sit in the corner and shut up for a few years? Christ.

    And this is a bit OT, but the seemingly prevalent notion is that Pelosi, master of her craft, can’t get articles of impeachment out of this House, with This Fucking President*??! I can’t stand Bernie, but if that’s true, maybe he’s right.

  190. 190
    UncleEbeneezer says:

    @Adam L Silverman: The best reasoning I can come up with is Representatives (especially in Swing districts) ran and were elected on:” I will fight for healthcare/environment etc.,” not “I will fight for Impeachment.” There’s very little downside to living up to their campaign promises. Their voters knew there wasn’t a snowball’s chance in hell of getting progressive legislation passed. They voted for them to provide an emergency brake to prevent ACA Repeal and other atrocities that they knew the GOP would undertake if it could. Trying and failing to pass progressive legislation is what they are expected to do, trying and failing to Impeach, is not.

  191. 191
    central texas says:

    Your failing grade to AOC seems to be more predicated on her awareness of the Speaker’s alleged motivations and less on her performance in her assignments. From what I have seen, she seems to be alert, involved, knowledgeable, present, and active; a welcome contrast to some of the more vegetative of her colleagues and the “…a microphone, I must speak” contingent. Perhaps living in a very young city colors my perceptions, but a 2020 strategy of “don’t make waves” and depend on the 60+ year old “Democrats for Reagan” holdovers does not look promising to me.

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    Heywood J. says:

    @zhena gogolia: извините, мой русский говорит только о “привет, как дела?” но вы должны прочитать мой блог.

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    Heywood J. says:

    @zhena gogolia: Looks like my Cyrillic response got vaporized in moderation, so to transliterate: izvinite, moy russkiy govorit tol’ko o “privet, kak dela?” no vy dolzhny prochitat’ moy blog.

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