Open Thread: Trump Tries to Steal Independence Day

Literally, steal from the Park Service (not to mention the military). Per the Washington Post:

The National Park Service is diverting nearly $2.5 million in entrance and recreation fees primarily intended to improve parks across the country to cover costs associated with President Trump’s Independence Day celebration Thursday on the Mall, according to two individuals familiar with the arrangement…

The diverted park fees represent just a fraction of the extra costs the government faces as a result of the event, which will include displays of military hardware, flyovers by an array of jets including Air Force One, the deployment of tanks on the Mall and an extended pyrotechnics show. By comparison, according to former Park Service deputy director Denis P. Galvin, the entire Fourth of July celebration on the Mall typically costs the agency about $2 million.

For Trump’s planned speech at the Lincoln Memorial, the White House is distributing VIP tickets to Republican donors and political appointees, prompting objections from Democratic lawmakers who argue that the president has turned the annual celebration into a campaign-like event.

The Republican National Committee and Trump’s reelection campaign confirmed Tuesday that they had received passes they were handing out for the event.

“We’ve never seen anything like this,” Sen. Tom Udall (N.M.), the top Democrat on the Senate Appropriations subcommittee on the interior, environment and related agencies, said in a phone interview. “No ticketed political event should be paid for with taxpayer dollars.”…

By tapping entrance fees to cover the presidential event, Interior is siphoning money that is typically used to enhance the visitor experience either on the Mall or at smaller parks across the country, with projects ranging from road and bridge repair to habitat restoration. The transfer amounts to nearly 5 percent of the funds that less-profitable parks used last year for upgrades, according to budget documents.

“This is a breach of trust with the public,” Theresa Pierno, president and CEO of the National Parks Conservation Association, said in an email. “The public pays parks fees to fix national parks and for educational programs, not the president’s parade.”…

The “Salute to America” marks the culmination of Trump’s two-year quest to mount a military-style extravaganza inspired by his visit to a Bastille Day celebration in Paris in 2017. His previous efforts to stage a Veterans Day military parade down Pennsylvania Avenue in 2018 were scuttled after estimated costs ballooned to the tens of millions of dollars…

Jon Chait, NYMag“Trump Is Packing the July 4 Fireworks Because He’s Afraid of Getting Booed”:

The Fourth of July celebration exposes Trump to the sort of crowd from which he has been traditionally insulated. The event is held in Washington, which (along with its surrounding suburbs) is heavily Democratic. It is also drawing protesters who will fly the famous Baby Trump blimp. Trump is also alienating nonpolitical attendees who might resent him turning a hallowed ritual that is a traditional venue for unity and a respite from politics into another divisive spectacle.

Trump’s efforts to control the rally should be seen in the context of his fear that the crowd will boo him. He is advertising the event on his Twitter feed, cordoning off the immediate area around his speech for ticket holders, and giving tickets away to Republican donors…

Trump has spent his presidency representing his supporters, without even bothering with the pretense of representing the majority that voted against him. He is attempting to conscript patriotic rituals into this effort. He deserves the reception he fears: loud, merciless boos.

148 replies
  1. 1
    Patricia Kayden says:

    I hope just the Deplorables show up since it’s obvious that this is their celebration for Dear Leader. It’s not for the rest of us. Hard pass.

  2. 2
    SFAW says:

    Fuck Traitor Turtle for enabling this motherfucker.

  3. 3
    Miss Bianca says:

    Here is what I don’t get: can’t the park service, the military, et al. JUST FUCKING REFUSE? I mean, the military has refused his bullshit military display before, why not now?

  4. 4
    Patricia Kayden says:

    I hope no protesters are hurt.

    The thugs will be out for Trump.

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    Raising one finger is a form of salute.

    Just sayin’.

    On a more serious note, have seen nothing as to whether the military personnel ordered to show up for display will be fully armed.

  6. 6
    Wapiti says:

    When I was finishing high school here in Seattle, a local millionaire still funded our fireworks displays.

    Trump a seriously cheap boy. Or he doesn’t have the money he says he does.

  7. 7
    raven says:

    @Miss Bianca: Not too familiar with the chain of command are you?

  8. 8
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Patricia Kayden: I saw earlier a group of Proud Boys are planning to attend, i thought I had seen something about Bikers for Trump. On the other side, a member of the Communist Party who’s planning to burn a flag, and Code Pink is bringing a giant trump-baby balloon, but not with helium

    I’m skeptical this will get the play and response trump thinks it will. Who’s gonna plan their Fourth around a TV show unless you’re already all-in for The Beast?

  9. 9
    Mary G says:

    A freak hailstorm left up to five feet of ice in Guadalajara Mexico last week.

    I’m rooting for another one, plus a plague of locusts, just big enough to get the president and his roped-off supporters.

  10. 10
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I mean, the military has refused his bullshit military display before, why not now?

    I think he’s overrated and he showed his ass when he endorsed Lumpy’s lie about sending troops to the border the week before the midterm election, but I think we may be seeing one difference the absence of Mattis makes.

  11. 11
    Jeffro says:

    I have a funny feeling (hope?) that the 2 Abrams tanks scheduled to be towed in on trailers are gonna have to stop short of the District…”sir, we’ve confirmed that the bridges will collapse if we take this kind of weight over them…yes sir…yes, I’m aware that Kim Jong-Un has tanks on parade…yes…yes sir but with all due respect I think getting American servicemen killed in a bridge collapse would reflect poorly on your eminence, Your Eminence…”

    Something like that ;)

  12. 12
    NotMax says:

    VIP section a jerry-rigged operation upon realizing there isn’t time to build a wall around the Lincoln Memorial?

  13. 13
    Redshift says:

    I also read that this will seriously deplete DC’s fund for security and event management, because they still haven’t been paid for the inauguration. Trump stiffed them on that after raising record amounts.


  14. 14
    SFAW says:


    Or he doesn’t have the money he says he does.

    One assumes you were being facetious/ironic, because it’s been obvious for awhile that he doesn’t. I’d bet he doesn’t have one-tenth of what he claimed he had during the campaign. And if one subtracts all the money he’s grifted since 11/9/16, I’d say he approaches my net worth — and I ain’t anything close to wealthy.

  15. 15
    Jeffro says:

    @Patricia Kayden: The thugs are already out. There was a weird float/trailer getting towed around DC a day or two ago, and I saw a pickup flying a huge ‘trumpov 2020’ flag behind it this past Saturday in Fairfax as well.

    I bet they’re getting paid like, $20 for the day. Suckers!

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    MSNBC won’t be airing it.

  17. 17
    Baud says:


    Fireworks were donated.

  18. 18
    NotMax says:


    Apparently the two major fireworks show operators brought in (as opposed to the one with a Park Service contract) are doing it gratis.

  19. 19
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    A U.S. defense official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to talk frankly, said the Pentagon was not planning for tanks to be involved in the July Fourth event until late last week. But after the president requested them, they were shipped up by rail from Fort Stewart in Georgia and first spotted by an Associated Press photographer Monday night.
    The list of fighter jets and other planes involved in Thursday’s military flyover also has grown, with the Pentagon carrying out requests from the White House while Interior officials organize the overall celebration. As late as last week, according to two defense officials, the military was planning to have only about 300 service members involved in the celebration, primarily from drill teams and bands.

    Meeting with KJU gave him pageant envy

  20. 20
    seefleur says:

    @NotMax: So the fireworks display is going to be sparklers and those worm thingys that you light and they sort of expand?

  21. 21
    Kay says:

    It’ll be a gross, embarrassing disaster and anyone who isn’t compelled to be there for some job duty and goes should be ashamed of themselves.
    God almighty one would think pouring millions of dollars into that crap, corrupt political party wouldn’t be rewarded by a command performance celebrating Donald Trump. I get that they don’t respect us, but they also don’t have any self respect.

  22. 22
    Jay says:

    @Patricia Kayden:


  23. 23
    Brachiator says:

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I hope just the Deplorables show up since it’s obvious that this is their celebration for Dear Leader. It’s not for the rest of us. Hard pass.

    Well, the Deplorables can show up, but they won’t get a seat.

    Now, America’s birthday celebration has a VIP section. You need to know somebody.

    It is amazing beyond belief that Trump’s dope followers continue to believe that he cares about them.

  24. 24
    NotMax says:


    Nah, tariffs on those put them financially out of reach. //

  25. 25
    Jay says:


    There’s two Abrams and two Bradley’s that will be parked by the Lincoln Memorial as a static display.

  26. 26
    Another Scott says:

    @Kay: It’s going to be miserable even if a thunderstorm doesn’t hit. 90-95F with 90+% humidity and no breeze. Uuggh.

    Parts of the Metro system are being renovated (Blue and Yellow line stations south of DCA are closed until September), so it’s going to be tough for lots of people to get downtown even if they want to.

    There are lots of reasons to expect that attendance is going to be way down, but we’ll have to see.


  27. 27
    NotMax says:

    Fireworks display supposed to culminate with an American flag (flag burning in the sky?) and the letters USA. With this crew, wouldn’t count on the spelling they requested being up to snuff.

  28. 28
    debbie says:

    I’m worried about that balloon. Knowing the loonies this will attract and the guns they’re sure to carry, it could become a target.

  29. 29
    raven says:

    @Another Scott: It’s not like miserable weather in DC on the 4th is some rare event.

  30. 30
    jc says:

    Time for some Photoshop images of our Dictator saluting the goose-stepping troops while tanks shoot fireworks.

  31. 31
    Eljai says:

    Isn’t this kind of what the signers of the Declaration of Independence were trying to avoid?

  32. 32
    Sab says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: My sister is an America historian of Chinese art (i.e. an American Chinese art historian), and she says papers and theses have been written on this effect on the Chinese. We had always thought the influence was the other way round.

    Apparently the north Koreans are extremely talented at these sorts of displays. The Chinese government often replicates them after state visits to North Korea. The Olympic opening ceremony is a case in point. A lot of the Revolutionary Opera also. Also parades with massive synchronized marching and flags.

    Trump is following others, with MUCH less administrative competence.

    This should be embarrassing, even without thunderstorms.

    I wish DC inhabitants good luck. The bozos that voted for this all live in Virginia.

  33. 33
    Feathers says:

    Apparently, the forecast is for thunderstorms, so that may end up solving the problem.

    On the bridges, the bridge they are talking about is Memorial Bridge, which is the beautiful one crossing the Potomac right in front of the Lincoln Memorial. That is an older bridge (1932) and not built for that sort of weight, it is currently undergoing its first ever renovation, which is currently underway, with only three lanes open!!! I can’t imagine anyone would approve driving a tank across it. Anything else would take the tanks onto city streets. There is also the issue that all of the land between the Mall and the Potomac is filled in swamp land. There is even an issue of whether or not the weight of the tanks would screw with the foundations of the Lincoln Memorial, which oddly enough are not hollow. You can walk through the rooms below. Before the recent renovations, there were spectacular stalactites from the ceiling, from all the marble dust dripping through floors from the constant cleaning. There were tours, which I never got a chance to take, but a Park Service worker let us look through the door one night at them.

    One note on the tanks. Our federal interstate system was built as part of the US defense system, so that military equipment could be moved around the country, especially in cast of nuclear attack. There were routing plans of how to keep all the bases connected should cities get taken out by nuclear attack. Ever wonder why all the major US cities have a ring highway that doesn’t go through the city center? It’s because cities get bombed. The more you know…

    ETA changes I thought I had made

  34. 34
    NotMax says:


    D.C. police needs to ticket them for illegal parking.

    “They put a boot on a tank?”

  35. 35
    Another Scott says:

    @raven: Yup, but people put up with it in normal years. We’ll see.


  36. 36
    Kay says:

    New CNN poll: Only 40% approve of Trump handling of North Korea; 37% Iran

    The last two weeks of propaganda aren’t having the intended effect so they’re bringing out the tanks.

    I’m torn- I don’t want it to have the blanket, state-tv level coverage they usually give Trump events, but I do want film of which grown-ass adults humiliated themselves bowing down before this clown. In front of the Lincoln Memorial, no less.

  37. 37
    Cameron says:

    So there are supposed to be tanks,even though they won’t go anywhere. Sort of a Nazi Peewee’s Playhouse. Who will be the American Tiananmen and confront them with a flower?

    So there will be tanks, albeit immobile. Can we get an American Tiananmen to walk towards them with a flower? End of Trump for the night.

  38. 38
    debbie says:


    Who’s airing it? Not PBS, for sure.

  39. 39
    Anne Laurie says:


    So the fireworks display is going to be sparklers and those worm thingys that you light and they sort of expand?

    Something like 90% of the world’s fireworks come from China. The two professional groups ‘donating’ their goods & services have been up front about the fact they’re trying to get fireworks exempted from Trump’s tariffs. What our neighbors to the south call mordida, I believe…

  40. 40
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: We’re impounding your Abrams.

  41. 41
    mrmoshpotato says:

    I’m so damn tired of this shit. Off to bed, and I might hibernate for the rest of the week.

  42. 42
    Miss Bianca says:

    @raven: “Chain of command”, my ass. This shitshow hasn’t been budgeted for, has nothing to with any sort of “Commander in Chiefly” duties, and actively endangers DC infrastructure. Someone, somewhere, ought to have the power to say “fuck no,” particularly since someone, somewhere, has said “fuck no” in the past.

  43. 43
    Anne Laurie says:


    I’m worried about that balloon. Knowing the loonies this will attract and the guns they’re sure to carry, it could become a target.

    Pretty sure the TSA, the FBI, Park agents, local DC security, and every warm body with a badge within commuting distance has already been told to report for duty Wednesday night and plan on staying through Friday morning.

    Much as I hate the thought of making things even more miserable for the locals / tourists, the News Optics of the lines waiting to be searched before they can enjoy their picnics will be… counterproductive for the RNC, methinks.

  44. 44
    Jeffro says:


    So there are supposed to be tanks,even though they won’t go anywhere. Sort of a Nazi Peewee’s Playhouse.

    Or a Potrumpkin village? Nah, none of the Villagers know enough history to call it that…

  45. 45
    Mary G says:

    A source passed along these photos of flatbed preparing to move Trumps July 4th tanks after it was determined they couldn’t clear the overpass:— Heather Caygle (@heatherscope) July 3, 2019

  46. 46
    NotMax says:

    Will Melania be wearing the jacket? With “I Don’t Care” facing Lincoln?

  47. 47
    Renie says:

    Who wants to guess what type of costume trumpov will wear? Is there a standard uniform for dictators?

  48. 48
    Sab says:

    @Miss Bianca: Not everyone wants to be fired for doing their job, and this crew has shown that they will fire people for doing their jobs competently.

  49. 49
    sixthdoctor says:

    Putin probably has multiple ruptures from laughter at this point.

    A source passed along these photos of flatbed preparing to move Trumps July 4th tanks after it was determined they couldn’t clear the overpass:— Heather Caygle (@heatherscope) July 3, 2019

  50. 50
    Steve in the ATL says:

    All sane people will be home on July 4, binge watching season three of “Stranger Things”

  51. 51
    Another Scott says:

    @debbie: It’ll be great if the Capitol Fourth has a decent turnout and Donnie’s rally is a bust.


    Carole King Verified account @Carole_King

    Just to be clear, I am appearing in “A Capitol Fourth,” the traditional event held annually on the lawn of the Capitol.

    I am NOT participating in t’s political rally.

    9:30 AM – 26 Jun 2019

    A Capitol Fourth will be on PBS starting at 8 PM EDT.


  52. 52
    Kay says:


    I read Fox and CSPAN. I love CSPAN though. It’s not their fault :)

    Get ready for the incredibly boring lie he’ll tell about attendance, and then the equally boring factual rebuttals of the lie he’ll tell on attendance. “The truth is unknowable” will be the conclusion. If we’re lucky they’ll use a photo of a superbowl or something. That at least is funny.

  53. 53
    bystander says:

    Saw a post on fb calling for people to block the tanks. I don’t know how or if this is some russki bait.

  54. 54
    NotMax says:


    Whatever it may be, it won’t fit.

  55. 55
  56. 56
    Mike in NC says:

    After Fat Bastard came to DC I expected the Smithsonian museums to start charging admission ($10 adults/$5 kids, maybe) with half the proceeds skimmed off by the Trump Organization.

  57. 57
    Jackie says:

    @Miss Bianca: Just a wild guess, but former Sec of Def Mattis is no longer there to push back. He only has ass-kissing sycophants not willing or wanting or caring to care.

  58. 58
    Peale says:

    It does make me think that if the British ever sailed up the Potomac again, they could burn down the city while we figured out how to move tanks down 8 lane highways.

  59. 59
    J R in WV says:

    They brought the 2 tanks in on the Railroad, and will move them to their stationary location on flatbed trailers used to move them around without wearing the treads out. Memorial bridge won’t be a factor for tanks this year, at all.

    A good thing, I would hate to see a tank crew harmed in the making of this horror show.

    Here’s a good poll:

    How much would it take for you to attend this cluster-fuck?

    Would they have to pay your expenses as well?

    $20,000 plus expenses (per person, per day), first class air, Trump Hotel 2 nights, penthouse. That’s my bid. It would pay for a trip to Egypt to see real tombs.

  60. 60
    chopper says:


    nothing says ‘safety’ like ‘the fireworks guys are working for free’

  61. 61
    --bd says:

    If ever there was a time for the Marble Lincoln Golem to arise, I’m thinking Thursday would be it, even if it means The End Times or whatnot.

  62. 62
    Jay says:

    “I’d been living in Charlottesville since 2009, but I’m from Mississippi,” Washington said. “I’d never seen so many white people getting together for a black cause. I’m like, ‘Wow, people love each other, you know?’”

    It was then that James Alex Fields Jr. gunned his gray Dodge Charger down 4th Street and plowed through the throng before violently crashing directly into the back of her car, killing Heyer and injuring 19 others, including Washington.

    “When it first happened all I heard was a big, big, loud noise — I thought somebody set off a bomb,” she recalled. “My eyes are blurry. I can’t see. But I can hear everybody screaming. By the time I had opened up my eyes, I see a woman’s body rolling down my front windshield and then I look to my left, and it’s just chaos.”

    The moment upended her life. Her legs had been jammed under the steering wheel, and the pain was excruciating. The initial diagnosis was a fractured ankle that should heal without difficulty. But debilitating flare-ups of pain persisted. Six months later she was diagnosed with Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, a condition that randomly sends messages of severe pain to the brain and has no sure effective treatment strategy.

  63. 63
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    😂 😂 😂

  64. 64
    eemom says:


    I wish DC inhabitants good luck. The bozos that voted for this all live in Virginia.

    If Dump’s parade is one tenth as spectacular as the ignorance of this comment, he’ll be ecstatic. Thanks for sharing.

  65. 65
    chopper says:

    @Another Scott:

    i lived in dc for a while and i hit the 4th celebrations from time to time. it’s a hot fuckin’ mess. metro is bad enough on the 4th, but when a solid chunk is shut down it’s gonna be just straight up hell getting out of there.

    add in heat and humidity and pissing rain and boy, the trumpers are gonna get what they deserve. if only lightning started striking a crowd of proud boys in the capital lawn, it’d be perfect.

  66. 66
    NotMax says:


    The companies are both major players, so wouldn’t be overly concerned about safety shortcuts. Will say that these sorts of displays normally involve months and months of advance planning and design, something absent in this case.

  67. 67
    chopper says:


    not northern virginia but you got a point. DC hates trump with the heat of a thousand suns.

    DC is one of those few places i lived where i felt like i truly belonged because 1) i’m a federal employee and 2) i hate the GOP.

  68. 68
    Sab says:

    @eemom: So the nitwit filter broke on this blog .


    You just proved my point.


    (Since you aren’t up to figuring this out… not everyone in Va,.. but.hardly anyone in DC.

  69. 69
    chopper says:


    planning, schmanning. you light the fuse and run away, right?

  70. 70
    chopper says:


    don’t mind feebmom. once she sobers up she’ll be…slightly less of an asshole.

  71. 71
    Duane says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Time to start calling them what they are.
    Nazi Boys.

  72. 72
    Betty Cracker says:

    It would be unusual to have a president who is this prescient:

  73. 73
    NotMax says:


    Maybe Dolt 45 will pull out a flare gun to signal the fireworks to begin.

    With the arrow on the “This End Up” stencil reversed.

  74. 74
    ThresherK says:

    @Renie: It’ll be the sartorial love child of Sgt. Pepper and Gaddafi, stitched together in Branson, MO.

  75. 75
    NotMax says:


    What, no Elvisesque red, white and blue sequined Lycra jumpsuit?

  76. 76
    plato says:


    I do want film of which grown-ass adults humiliated themselves bowing down before this clown.

    There is plenty of footage of the grown-ass adults, including much touted military ‘leaders’, doing just that in fucking live teevee. There are still plenty of scummy levels yet to be seen apparently.

  77. 77
    chopper says:


    once when i was a kid the local fireworks display went wrong, some schmuck fired a witch whistler off and it hit the display and set the whole thing on fire.

    luckily, where i live now, the display is set off in a barge on a lake so it’s a lot safer. oy.

  78. 78
    Barbara says:

    @Sab: Ummm . . . What? And not many in Northern Virginia voted for him either. But please keep calling us bozos if it makes you feel better.

  79. 79
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Lloyd Doggett on the O’Donnell program. He’s an amusing cantankerous old cuss

  80. 80
    NotMax says:


    San Diego, 2012.

  81. 81
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Miss Bianca: The simple answer is that we have an Acting Secretary of Defense. And he was preceded by an Acting Secretary of Defense. And both he and his predecessor have been told they’ll be nominated to be an actual, Senate confirmed Secretary of Defense. And since these gentlemen were willing to take these jobs in this administration despite everything they’ve seen, expecting them to show some professional spine is something of a pipe dream.

  82. 82
    chopper says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    cassandra’s curse was not so much that she could know the future, as much as it was that nobody would listen.

  83. 83
    jonas says:

    I have admittedly not served in the armed forces, so this is a question coming from both ignorance and curiosity: do rank-and-file folks in the military really think Trump cares about them and their service/sacrifice with all this shit, or do they understand that they’re just being used as props in his idiotic authoritarian cosplay fantasy? Of course they follow orders and if they’re ordered to parade in the sweltering heat around in front of General Bonespurs’ reviewing stand, that’s what they’ll do. But they have to know this is an absolutely humiliating farce for all but Trump’s inner circle and his increasingly unhinged basket of Deplorables. Right?

    You can guaran-fucking-tee if a Dem president ever tried a stunt like this, the NYT, WaPo and every other major outlet would be running stories filled with anonymously quoted service men and women about how huge an insult this was to them, waste of valuable time and resources, etc.

  84. 84
    SFAW says:


    If ever there was a time for the Marble Lincoln Golem to arise, I’m thinking Thursday would be it,

    Considering how much the Traitor-in-Chief hates The Joos, I like your style. [And, as Hyman Kaplan noted, the name of the 16th President was Avram Lincohen.] But who’s going to spray-paint “emet” (in Hebrew) on Abe? I mean, the result might be more interesting than a highly-targeted meteor strike.

  85. 85
    Jay says:

    Organizers of a “Demand Free Speech” rally planned for Saturday in Washington, D.C., told the National Park Service that they expect up to 1,000 participants—but wrote that there “could be more or less”—to attend their demonstration. Given the fact that, per the sponsoring group’s permit application, they’ve rented only one toilet, perhaps they’re banking on the “less.”

    A copy of an event permit application the National Park Service provided to The Daily Beast shows event organizers’ stated plans for the rally, which is expected to attract members of the Proud Boys, identified as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, and followers of far-right personalities including Milo Yiannopoulos, Laura Loomer, and Gavin McInnes, who have been removed from social media platforms for violating community guidelines. The Daily Beast’s Will Sommer reports that the application has been approved and that counter-protesters plan to rally across the street from Freedom Plaza.

  86. 86
    Kay says:


    I know but it might be truly a shit show and it’s too late for them- they’re already seated in their silly “VIP” section. They can’t slip out – they have to sit for the whole thing. They’ll wish they were in the muddy cattle pens with the rank and file Trumpsters. They can leave and no one cares.

  87. 87
    rk says:

    Proud boys, bikers, nazis all turning out for the 4th july.
    I hope it rains on the parade and they all get struck by bolts of lightening!

  88. 88
    Sab says:

    @Barbara: Sorry to you and most N Virginians.

    Went to Manassas with my then fiance in 1970. Affectionate talk about the little n*** boys down the road. I am still in shock 50 years later, and I spent a lot of my childhood in the south.

  89. 89
    SFAW says:


    You can guaran-fucking-tee if a Dem president ever tried a stunt like this, the NYT, WaPo and every other major outlet would be running stories

    I think the FTFTFNYT would only do that for a Dem President with the surname “Clinton.”

  90. 90
    Barbara says:

    @rk: Metro is horrible on the Fourth.

  91. 91
    Sab says:

    @chopper: I doubt it. That is who she is, always.

  92. 92
    Chetan Murthy says:


    I think the FTFTFNYT would only do that for a Dem President with the surname “Clinton.”

    I see your bet and raise you a Tan-Suit-Gate and Latte-Salute-Gate. *grin*

  93. 93
    Barbara says:

    @Sab: 50 years later, you might consider that things have not stayed the same. There is now only a single Republican from NoVa serving in the General Assembly.

  94. 94
    plato says:

    Democrat Mark Kelly, who is running to unseat Republican Sen. Martha McSally in Arizona’s 2020 Senate race, raised $4.2 million during the second quarter of 2019, exceeding his first-quarter fundraising.— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) July 2, 2019

    Hope he wins. Unseating the traitor turtle (and then electing a dem with backbone as the sen majority leader) will solve most of the problems.

  95. 95
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Adam L Silverman: I get it. I do. I just hate this would-be Ceaucescu and his grifting, slimy would-be dynastic brood so much, I find myself yearning for atrocities on a scale they are visiting on this nation, to fall on them. May they be eaten by maggots – or MAGAts, I care not which – each and every one.

  96. 96
    chopper says:


    4% of DC voted for trump. four. percent. strongest dem voting bloc in the country. compared to the state of VA, not even close.

    don’t take it too personally, but given that dc is a democratic stronghold, it’s extra awful to have that shitbag living and breathing and god-knows what else inside the city limits.

  97. 97
  98. 98
    Redshift says:


    (Since you aren’t up to figuring this out… not everyone in Va,.. but.hardly anyone in DC.

    People don’t usually make sneering “not all” statements to people who are in the majority…

    You tried to make a point about DC not deserving this because they didn’t vote for Trump by blaming another state that… also didn’t vote for Trump. “Ignorant” seems to fit the bill.

  99. 99
    Barbara says:

    @chopper: I don’t know where you or Sab live but I’m guessing it isn’t a place that has DC levels of support for Trump. Holding Virginia responsible for this shit show is silly and it is even sillier to double down on it.

  100. 100
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @debbie: @Anne Laurie: Despite the McDonald and Heller Decisions, there is virtually no one in DC with a conceal carry permit. Open carry is prohibited. And there are serious and severe restrictions on types of firearms, especially rifles, and magazine capacity in DC. And the DC police has very little enthusiasm for anyone with a gun. The ammosexuals are not wrong in the belief that criminals are not going to be stopped by firearm laws, so if one of these bozos decides to conceal carry illegally, they’ll do it. But if they’re caught, they’re going to be in for a world of hurt.

  101. 101
    Kay says:


    The worst part of Trump is the Trump children will be around forever. They are never going back to their fake business empire. We’re stuck with them for life.

  102. 102
    Betty Cracker says:

    🎻 [actual size]

  103. 103
    Sab says:

    @Barbara: I know they haven’t. Timed out on my response. N Virginia wasn’t nuts even in the day. Manassas is pretty far south.

    We both live in very divided states.

    Yours is nuts in the south and ok in the north.

    Mine is okay in the cities and nuts where they let coyotes vote.

  104. 104
    Jay says:

    My latest at: I mapped out the headquarters of every vendor company of Customs and Border Patrol (CBP).Use our interactive map to see which firms in your area have profited from the agency that's housing immigrant kids in horrible conditions.— Alex Kotch 🔥 (@alexkotch) June 27, 2019

  105. 105
    tobie says:

    I don’t know if it’s been posted already, but a young man/kid leaving the ballpark in DC where the Nationals play got this video of tanks on trailer trucks rolling down DC streets. The video really got to me. I can’t believe this is happening.

  106. 106
    Sab says:

    @Redshift: @Barbara: Well I stepped in it tonight.

    Verry very sorry.

  107. 107
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Donald J. Trump @ realDonaldTrump
    A very sad time for America when the Supreme Court of the United States won’t allow a question of “Is this person a Citizen of the United States?” to be asked on the #2020 Census! Going on for a long time. I have asked the Department of Commerce and the Department of Justice….
    ….to do whatever is necessary to bring this most vital of questions, and this very important case, to a successful conclusion. USA! USA! USA!

    I realize this is most likely a face-saving (to himself) tantrum so he can tell Sean Hannity tonight during they nighty-night phone call that he showed those pointy headed judges who’s boss, but is there any change this kind of nuttiness will piss off old-school conservative judges who see this kind of (even impotent) contempt for the separation of powers and be a bit more hasty in ruling on, say, the suit about getting his tax returns. As in expeditious. And fast too.
    ETA: tweeted about twenty-five minutes ago, btw. Anybody know whether he was watching Sean or Tucker at this hour? Maria Bartiromo? Loud Obbs?

  108. 108
    Barbara says:

    @Sab: I am not looking for a fight but fyi Manassas is in Northern Virginia, outside the Beltway, with a fast growing immigrant population.

  109. 109
    Barbara says:

    @Sab: Not to worry, but we just like a little credit for actually having made so much progress.

  110. 110
    Jay says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Don’t count on it.

    Police are fine with armed protestors as long as they are the “right kind” of protestor.

  111. 111
    debbie says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Oh, let it be so!

  112. 112
    Redshift says:


    I know they haven’t. Timed out on my response. N Virginia wasn’t nuts even in the day. Manassas is pretty far south.

    We both live in very divided states.

    Manassas didn’t vote for Trump either. Seriously, just admit you made a mistake.

    It sucks what happened to you fifty years ago, but it’s not relevant to much of Virginia today.

  113. 113
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    speaking of our president’s TeeVee friends:

    Madeline Peltz @ peltzmadeline
    Tucker Carlson says that Kamala Harris hates white people. Remind me, what did Glenn Beck start losing advertisers over again?

    I think one reason Harris scares trump’s people is they know at some point he’ll get all hopped up on the howler monkeys’ hooting and go all whitey tape on KH and make it too hard for tote-baggers to ignore. On some level, I think trump fears this.

  114. 114
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: I hope the absurd and expensive hijacking of the 4th, juxtaposed with the horrible conditions the Trump admin is subjecting asylum-seekers to, blows up in his ugly face.

  115. 115
    The Pale Scot says:

    Ya remember the Nazis On the Moon film Iron Sky?
    They’re coming out with the sequel, IRON SKY 2 the Donald Trump Trailer

    Pure comedy gold

  116. 116
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    he’ll get all hopped up on the howler monkeys’ hooting and go all whitey tape on KH

    Idunno about that. I bet $100 with a friend that he’d go all C-word on Hillary, on an open mic. And I had to pay up. When it matters for the sales pitch, he seems to have decent message discipline. Or at least -had- it as recently as 2016.

  117. 117
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Patricia Kayden: @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Jay: Pennsylvania’s firearm laws are interesting. The state is permitless open carry and has conceal carry permit reciprocity with a number of states, except for within cities of the first order. Philadelphia is a city of the first order*. You cannot legally open carry in Philadelphia, nor does it automatically have conceal carry permit reciprocity with all the states that the State of Pennsylvania has. So if these knuckleheads showed up in Philadelphia to terrorize some folks they were pissed at from social media and had their firearms with them, they’re likely in significant trouble.

    And they’ll have the same issues in DC, which does not allow open carry and, despite the Heller and McDonald rulings, has issued almost no conceal carry permits. Nor does it have conceal carry permit reciprocity with most states, if any. DC also has some serious restrictions with severe penalties on types of firearms, especially rifles, as well as magazine capacity limits. If these chuckleheads, the Bikers for Trump, and/or the “patriot” cosplay crowd decide to pull their usual armed and dangerous routine, they’re going to be in for some very unpleasant legal repercussions.

    * City of the first order isn’t really well defined in the PA state constitution, but they are the only ones that are permitted to pass certain types of local ordnances and laws that cannot be superseded by state laws that are intended to preempt municipal authorities from legislating certain things. The only undisputed city of the first order in PA is Philadelphia. Not even Harrisburg, the state capitol, is a city of the first order. Right now Pittsburgh is claiming to also be a city of the first order, which is not new for Pittsburgh as the city officials have done this several times over the years. Pittsburgh’s current attempt is so that city officials can, in the wake of the Tree of Life shooting, regulate firearms like Philadelphia does. Pittsburgh’s claims, as well as the actions it has taken with local ordnances as a result of making the claim, are currently being litigated.

  118. 118
    Redshift says:


    Verry very sorry.

    Apology accepted. And I was sincere about being sorry about your experience, but also glad to have had some small part in changing that.

    I didn’t experience anything remotely that bad, but when Ms. Redshift first moved to most-northern Virginia Arlington forty-odd years ago, she was shocked by the Confederate flags, and also by walking down the wrong suburban street and seeing the headquarters of the American Nazi Party (with flag!), which was there at the time.

  119. 119
    cmorenc says:

    Hopefully when, and not if Trump loses in 2020 he likely won’t go quietly into the good night – he won’t go without making an ominously bellicose asshole out of himself – I mean, even more of an ominously bellicose asshole as he already is. His lame-duck administration will steal, burn, and pillage everything they possibly can on their way out the door between November and January – more so than the extent they have already done so far.

  120. 120
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @NotMax: @chopper:

  121. 121
    The Pale Scot says:

    Couldn’t Edit so..

    IRON SKY 2 Donald Trump Trailer

  122. 122
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @jonas: The surveying we have is mixed. A majority of the officer corps does not support him. A bare majority of the enlisted cadre does.

  123. 123
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @SFAW: You don’t spray paint it on him. You place the scroll with emet written on it in his mouth.

  124. 124
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    But they have to know this is an absolutely humiliating farce for all but Trump’s inner circle and his increasingly unhinged basket of Deplorables. Right?

    Actually, they probably care more about losing a long weekend to stand in the heat and humidity.

  125. 125
    JaySinWA says:

    @rk: I understand Proud Boys are known to carry their own lightning rods, AKA metal batons.

  126. 126
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Considering the judge in this case explicitly asked the DOJ attorneys if what they’d informed her court meant that Commerce was absolutely abandoning any attempt to put the question on the 2020 census and they told her that yes, that was the case, if the question winds up on the census, those attorneys are going to be dealing with one pissed off judge.

  127. 127
    SFAW says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    🎻 [actual size]

    You are SUCH a hot shit.

    I almost missed it, excellent work.
    [Sorry, don’t know how to paste the GIF/emoji]

  128. 128
    serge says:

    I guess it’s too late to plan a counter demonstration à la the Smoke-In of 1970. That day the tear gas the Park police used promptly settled on the good burghers waiting for Bob Hope to perform. It was a glorious, wonderful day with perfect weather. It would be nice if some similar irony hit Trump in the ass in the form of tear gas, him and all his donor pals. His co-opting of the festivities on the 4th is disgusting. It has always been the peoples’ event, that day and in that place.

  129. 129
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jay: DC’s police force takes a very dim view of anyone with a firearm.

  130. 130
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Her husband is both white and Jewish. Oh, now I see what Carlson meant.

  131. 131
    SFAW says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    You don’t spray paint it on him. You place the scroll with emet written on it in his mouth.

    Even better — defacing Abe would be “poor form.” And thanks for the lesson.

  132. 132
    Honus says:

    @Sab: virginia went for hillary by four points. Try again.

  133. 133
    eemom says:


    hardly anyone in DC

    Ayup… rich folks in them thar Georgetown townhouses and Cleveland Park mansions, sho nuff.

    Keep trying, midwestern trash.

  134. 134
    plato says:

    There is life in outer space, and it's intelligent, and that's why it's staying far away from you.— God (@TheTweetOfGod) July 2, 2019

  135. 135
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Cole @ eloc8
    Just left the Nats game, and we were greeted by Trump’s tanks rolling through just outside the ballpark

  136. 136
    Honus says:

    @Redshift: wasn’t that George Lincoln Rockwell’s place?

  137. 137
    chopper says:


    I don’t know where you or Sab live but I’m guessing it isn’t a place that has DC levels of support for Trump

    nova is solid, but the rest of the state, not so much. fwiw, the area i live in is like VA; the urban area i live in, trump got like 8%. but the east 50% of the state is kentucky. lots of trumpers over there.

  138. 138
    chopper says:

    and also, just remember – dc doesn’t get shit in terms of representation. y’all have congresspeople with an actual vote. and senators! what does DC get? fuckin’ shit. well, bragging rights, that’s the one thing they have. DC told trump to piss the hell off more than any other state. at least let them have that.

  139. 139
    chopper says:


    at one point they were in clarendon.

  140. 140
    chopper says:


    DC went for hillary by 87 points.

  141. 141
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I presume Tucker Carlson knows perfectly well that Kamala Harris is married to a white people.

  142. 142
    Honus says:

    @chopper: virginia was a little heavier lift, though.
    Seriously, a republican hasn’t won a statewide election in Virginia in ten years. And after last fall, the congressional delegation is majority democrat even in spite of the awful 2010 gerrymandering. Obama was the first democrat to carry Virginia since LBJ. This is in a state bordered by WV, TN, NC and KY. Hell, even Maryland has a republican governor. We’ve done a lot of hard work here in the last 20 years.

  143. 143
  144. 144
    chopper says:


    my point is, that if any state out there gets to say ‘the rest of you guys voted for this’ it’s the place that voted for hilz 91-4. and yeah, i’m calling dc a state, cause it should be one.

    i mean, 91-4. come the hell on.

  145. 145
    john fremont says:

    @Feathers: There is also a specification that the Interstates have portions that do not curve and no power lines crossing them to set up improvised runways.

  146. 146
    JoeyJoeJoe says:


    Virginia’s 8th congressional district, the part of Nova closest to DC, had a bigger swing towards Democrats between 2012 and 2016 of any district in the country, I read. Obama got 66/67% in 2012; Hillary got 77%

  147. 147
    Steeplejack (phone) says:


    The fightin’ 8th! That’s me. Don Beyer is my rep and my Kia dealer. Bonus!

  148. 148
    chopper says:


    i lived in the 8th for a while. all of nova is trending blue due much in part to big-time immigration. hell, the white percentage in fairfax county has dropped 20 points since 2000, something like that.

Comments are closed.