First DNC Debate Liveblog – Part II

My current pick for Jackal Comment of the Evening:

I hope that at the end of this debate, we get to vote on which two candidates get shoved off the boat. Right now, I’m voting for deBlassio and Gabbard to get booted.

Meanwhile, Rachel Maddow is missing a real opportunity to improve her market share by giving Chuck Todd an atomic wedgie.

208 replies
  1. 1
    dmsilev says:

    When Chuck Todd thinks that you’re being too bipartisan…

  2. 2
    Mary G says:

    Delany needs to go home.

  3. 3
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Chucky Toad never fails to be annoying.

  4. 4
    Mary G says:

    Turn off their mic when they go over time!

  5. 5
    dmsilev says:

    Is this the first debate question, ever, about climate change?

  6. 6
    jl says:

    Dropping de Blasio and Gabbard would be OK.
    What can we do about the little pompous fart Todd?
    Is he too stupid to understand long complicated hypothetical scenarios, uselessly tailored for each candidate, is going to produce filibusters and confusion.
    Or is he a little dishonest prick angling for gotchas and asinine preening.

    Maddow has same problem as Todd with her questions.
    Band pairing, especially for this kind of debate. Maddow is not nearly the pompous ass Todd is, though.

  7. 7
    Ben Cisco says:

    @jl: Once again, the answer is yes.

  8. 8
    Plato says:


  9. 9
    patrick II says:

    Rachel is a very good moderator _ takes control when necessary and asks good questions .

  10. 10


    Dropping de Blasio and Gabbard would be OK.

    We should add Baud in.

  11. 11
    hedgehog mobile says:

    Aaaaand Tm Ryan off on the white working class. FFS.

  12. 12
    Keith P. says:

    Gabbard and whoever that was who spent a good minute telling us how the Democratic Party is out-of-touch with regular Americans.

  13. 13
    ThresherK says:

    Watching USMNT play Panama in the CONCACAF Gold Cup. No spoilers from me.

  14. 14
    jl says:

    Candidates doing a good job navigating Todd’s grandstanding bullshit.

    I’m sorry if I have not made it clear, but I think Todd is an insufferable fraud and incompetent.

    Why can’t Maddow ask more questions? She has same problem understanding good questions for this kind of debate, but she is not nearly as irritating.

    Both Maddow and Todd promised to strictly enforce the rules and time limits, then ask questions in a way that makes that impossible, and then don’t enforce them. Todd should be banned from moderating any debates, and Maddow should be reserved for debates where candidates have more time to talk.

  15. 15
    Juju says:

    @Mary G: I’ll give him cab fare, plane fare, whatever it takes.

  16. 16
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Fuck Ryan, DeBlasio, and Delaney for validating every false stereotype about the party. Get them offf the ducking stage. Now.

  17. 17
    Anne Laurie says:


    Dropping de Blasio ON HIS HEAD, FROM A GREAT HEIGHT and Gabbard would be OK.


  18. 18
    Betty Cracker says:

    Our power is still out. Le sigh.

  19. 19
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’m sorry. I hate that, even though we have a generator.

  20. 20
    Immanentize says:

    ChuckTodd is Joe Biden at the Thomas hearings.

  21. 21
    Jeffro says:

    Why stop at two? We could drop 8 (everyone but Warren and Castro) and be better for it

  22. 22
    jl says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Baud 2020! should have angled for a moderator spot to increase visibility for the Baud 2024! run.

    Baud 2020!: When you’d be a good guy to have a beer with as president, what brand?

    Baud 2020!: This whole thing you see with bags of ‘naked’ candies in quick stops? Naked or individually wrapped? Yes or no.

    Those would be great questions.

  23. 23
    chopper says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    you’re not missing much.

  24. 24
    feebog says:

    General consensus here is that Delaney is Republican light. Gabbard has come off better than expected IMO. Booker having a good night. Warren is struggling a bit, hard to explain complicated policy issues in 30 seconds.

  25. 25
    Kent says:

    In the midst of a big very rare thunderstorm here in the Portland area. My TV is flickering on and off during Chuck Todd and DeBlasio. I think God has a sense of humor.

  26. 26
    Kay says:


    All of Chuck Todd’s questions are really “why do people hate Democrats?”

  27. 27
    Mary G says:

    All the white guys on stage tonight need to step off the campaign.

  28. 28
    Betty says:

    Di Blasio keeps jumping in. So much for control.

  29. 29
    zhena gogolia says:


    Drop Booker?

  30. 30
    jl says:

    Don’t like Gabbard, but the miserable Todd’s question about her old LGBTQ comments was vulgar angling for a gotcha, IMHO.

    Wonder if the little snot nosed punk Todd is going to blow away the news world with a ‘Pocahontas’ question for Warren.

    Sorry if not clear, but I have complete contempt for Todd.
    Can Maddow ask something?

  31. 31
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay: QFT

  32. 32
    Betty says:

    Gabbard making a good point about getting out of Afghanistan.

  33. 33
    Kent says:

    Gotta say. Gabbard absolutely owned Ryan on that Afghanistan question.

  34. 34
    Jeffro says:

    @zhena gogolia: yes please

  35. 35
    Steeplejack says:

    Comments are confirming that I’m glad I haven’t been watching or following. The site problems were a sign from Yahweh when I logged in a while ago. Back to streaming something.

    Does anyone know if PBS Passport is the same if you get it through your local station or subscribe to the Passport channel on Amazon Prime?

  36. 36
    feebog says:

    So Ryan thinks we should be in Afghanistan indefinitely. And Gabbard is giving it to him good.

  37. 37
    Betty says:

    Ryan being a jerk talking about 911 as a reason to stay in Afghanistan.

  38. 38
    Bupalos says:


    Thanks trumpypants!!

  39. 39
    Alain says:

    @Betty Cracker: Is this better, or worse? Ok… how ’bout now? Better….or worse?

    I jest, hope you regain power soon. Been there, done that. One reason I bought the off-road version of the 4Runner was because it has a 400 watt generator built into it, so I can plug a cord into the back when it’s parked and keep civilization going.

    Folks, I’m not fiddling with the site anymore tonight unless it’s critical. For now, it seems more inconvenient to some, at the most.

    A good shift-reload will hopefully solve the issue. If not, please reply here and I’ll redo the caches again. I will be here off and on for the next hour or so.

  40. 40
    Soprano2 says:

    Why are they arguing about 9-11 and the Taliban?

  41. 41
    Betty says:

    Inslee scores when he says the biggest threat to the country is Trump.

  42. 42
    dmsilev says:

    Greatest geopolitical threat is Donald Trump. Win.

  43. 43
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Richard M. Nixon @ dick_nixon
    O’Rourke sounds like a kid who thinks he’s a good actor reading a play about Obama in front of his English class.

  44. 44
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Gabbard-Ryan death match? Please let it be so.

  45. 45
    Betty says:

    Beto ready to begin impeachment.

  46. 46
    jl says:

    @Betty: I agree with Gabbard dong much better than I expected, but I had low expectations.

    In general, Klobuchar, Warren and Gabbard much more articulate, polite and disciplined than most of the goofballs.
    I think Booker and Castro are best of the guys.

    Todd asks another way too long and, I think, stupid question. Does Todd not understand the difference between impeachment removal process and criminal liability? But good answer so far, from Booker, I think.

  47. 47
    Immanentize says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: A play he himself wrote.

  48. 48
    Peale says:

    @Kay: yep. Democrats are never supposed to pander to their constituencies in their primaries. They are supposed to be trying to win over GOP voters. I’m sure the punditry consensus this week is that they didn’t do enough to win over the GOP with their ridiculous liberal democratic positions.

  49. 49
    Kent says:

    I’m a white guy. And gotta say, I can’t tell these white guys apart. Sheesh.

  50. 50
    Immanentize says:

    @Betty: but he is neither in the House nor the Senate. Loudest boos from the cheapest seats.

  51. 51
    Betty Cracker says:

    @zhena gogolia: My husband keeps agitating for us to get one. I think he’s right!

  52. 52
    Patricia Kayden says:

    And here come the racist “jokes” by Republicans.
    The Party of Trump, indeed.

  53. 53
    Jeffro says:

    Bye, Delaney!

  54. 54
    jl says:

    I think the questions about Trump being prosecuted after he leaves office is a bad question for this debate. Seems like Todd and Maddow are confused about how the law works, and it is not really a proper policy issue for a president to address (though I guess Trump’s lawless BS has changed the standard?)
    Bad topic and waste of time for this debate.

  55. 55
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    It does provide peace of mind. But it’s kind of a PITA.

  56. 56
    Leto says:

    @jl: Todd keeps giving them more time to pontificate on about nothing. How is that Savana Guthrie was a better moderator?

  57. 57
    Barbara says:

    DK doing a better live feed than The Guardian, where, admittedly, it is nearly 4:00 am.

  58. 58
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: tough but fair. I can’t really fault his words but he doesn’t act the part.

  59. 59
    Betty says:

    Delaney is really arrogant. Lecturing us that people don’t care about impeachment. Amy gave a good response to him about not letting the Russian interference go unanswered.

  60. 60
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    ave Weigel @ daveweigel
    Both Delaney’s and Warren’s answers were lowkey Obama criticisms. Warren described a permanent political movement, a la the one the left says Obama dismantled in 2009. Delaney said the great policy achievements had bipartisan support; that was exactly none of Obama’s achievements

    Didn’t see this moment, but what are these great policy achievements? the two most significant and broadly bipartisan votes of the last twenty-five years were, as I recall, Glass-Steagall and the AUMFs of Bush’s first term.

  61. 61
    Kent says:

    Gotta say. I had zero expeditions about this debate and actually found it mildly entertaining. But I doubt many unengaged Americans are even going to know it happened.

    Maybe it will serve the purpose of starting to weed out the mediocre white guys.

  62. 62
    Kay says:


    I like Klobachur though because she’s tough. Unflappable. She is a centrist but she has the right temperament. I was pleasantly surprised she kept going after Trump.

    I want to get rid of Ryan, Gabbard, DeBlasio and Delaney.

  63. 63
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    Sure the power bill was paid this month?


  64. 64
    Soprano2 says:

    I read on Twitter that CNN is a little stunned that their fact checkers don’t have much to do. LOL

  65. 65
    Keith P. says:

    @Kent: There’s Chrome Dome and 3 guys who look like Bill De Blasio. Doc Brown from Back to the Future and Mayor Pete are the only other ones I can think of, but that’s tomorrow night. “Serious” white guys just don’t have a lot of looks they can pull off

  66. 66
    mrmoshpotato says:

    JFC! What a Soviet shitpile mobster conman manchild who wants to stick his orange dick into one of his own daughters.

  67. 67
    Juju says:

    @Betty Cracker: look into a whole house generator.

  68. 68
    Jeffro says:

    Delaney giving the Reagan closing argument

  69. 69
    dmsilev says:

    @Soprano2: Don’t worry, I’m sure they’ll manage to nitpick something.

  70. 70
    jl says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Delaney is full of it. Arrogant and ignorant and none-too-bright, a bad combo.

  71. 71
    Jeffro says:

    DeBlasio also sucking with “we need to be that party AGAIN”


  72. 72
    mak says:

    @jl: Actually, I saw that as a softball toward redemption

  73. 73
    Ivan X says:

    Todd’s a turd, but he’ll watch later and rue the coverage of his hairline, so joke’s on him. Also, he pitched Warren (my personal favey) a softball when he asked her if she had “a plan” for dealing with Mitch McConnell, which I think is a legit question, and she said “I do,” and I got all excited, and then she gave a non-answer, suggesting that in fact she doesn’t. I was disappointed. How are we gonna deal with effing McConnell?

  74. 74
    Kay says:

    I like Inslee too. I bet he has a sense of humor. That would be a change.

  75. 75
    Betty says:

    Inslee keeps saying he is the only one making climate change a priority.

  76. 76
    Jeffro says:

    Inslee: I am a candidate who supports anti-climate change measures…

    …just like everyone else on this stage

  77. 77
    westyny says:

    Chuck “everybody thinks I’m shitty so I must be doing something right” Todd. At least it’s not Matt Lauer.

  78. 78
    Betty says:

    Ryan repeating his middle class spiel.

  79. 79
    Jeffro says:

    Ryan: I’m all over the place but at least I don’t fake stuff like Beto

  80. 80
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Teacher in Texas, nurse in New Hampshire, waitress in Wisconsin? Did Ryan really need that mnemonic?

  81. 81
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Juju: Yeah, that’s what the mister wants. Costs as much as a decent used car though! Still, at a moment like this, it would be nice to have.

  82. 82
    Betty says:

    Gabbard sounds convincing. I am surprised.

  83. 83
    Jeffro says:

    Gabbard: um yes, all of the above…please please just keep me in the spotlight

  84. 84
    Jeffro says:

    Castro: (brass balls, great story)

  85. 85
    Jeffro says:

    Klobuchar: 😴😴😴 x a million

  86. 86
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Haha! Too funny.

  87. 87
    Betty says:

    Booker talking about how tough he is, tougher than Trump.

  88. 88
    Jeffro says:

    Booker: (ok, not a bad speech here…)

  89. 89
    jl says:

    @mak: I think even if so, it is still be a bad reason for a question too. Why throw Gabbard that kind of softball.

  90. 90
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Betty: I know. It’s scary. It could work on low-info voters.

  91. 91
    Jeffro says:

    Beto: “I heard about this thing called the fierce urgency of now…?”

  92. 92
    chris says:

    @Betty Cracker: Tesla Powerwall maybe? And later some solar panels.

  93. 93
    jl says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: probably, yes. He made a particularly poor impression. Seems always very pissed he couldn’t be the only one up their talking, and that anyone would have the temerity to question or challenge him. Very pouty. He’s looking to lock down the pouter vote?

  94. 94
    Jeffro says:

    Warren: (whew…didn’t think she was going to connect ‘bio’ to ‘vision’ in time…whew…)

  95. 95
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Ivan X:

    Also, he pitched Warren (my personal favey) a softball when he asked her if she had “a plan” for dealing with Mitch McConnell, which I think is a legit question, and she said “I do,” and I got all excited, and then she gave a non-answer, suggesting that in fact she doesn’t. I was disappointed. How are we gonna deal with effing McConnell?

    Well, she’s not gonna say “Show him the intel pics of his ‘indiscretions’, and suggest he either get with the program or take his foreign profits and retire” right on stage, is she?

    (Just kidding… I *think*.)

  96. 96
    mrmoshpotato says:


    DeBlasio also sucking with “we need to be that party AGAIN”

    What party is that?

  97. 97
    zhena gogolia says:

    I guess tomorrow night will be Bernie shouting over everybody, huh?

  98. 98
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    The candidates largely performed as I expected them to. As did the commenters. For me, Booker was the only real surprise. He was better than I have seen him be on other occasions.

  99. 99
    James E Powell says:


    I like Klobachur though because she’s tough. Unflappable. She is a centrist but she has the right temperament. I was pleasantly surprised she kept going after Trump.

    Maybe because she gets that going after Trump is the only thing Democratic primary voters – and donors & volunteers to be – care about.

  100. 100
    Mary G says:

    @Jeffro: She knocked the closing statement out of the park.

  101. 101
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I guess tomorrow night will be Bernie shouting over everybody, huh?

    Don’t forget the incessant finger wagging.

  102. 102
    MazeDancer says:

    Would delete DeBlasio, Gabbard, Ryan, Delaney,, and Gabbard, .
    That’s half.

  103. 103
    SenyorDave says:

    @Anne Laurie: 1. She better say she has a plan for dealing with McConnell and 2. The only real plan is praying that the Democrats take the Senate and 3. #2 can’t be her answer and 4. The answer has to be a bunch of stuff that makes sense if McConnell actually gave a shit about anything other than maintaining his power.

  104. 104
    Kraux Pas says:

    Having 20 candidates is an unwieldy state of affairs, but this early on I appreciated hearing from everyone. Even the soon-to-be-also-rans made worthwhile contributions to the conversation (then I was pleasantly surprised by Tim Ryan and Tulsi Gabbard not breathing fire). Everyone seemed to respect everyone for the most part and will benefit from each others’ perspective.

    …except DeBlasio. He was super interrupty.

  105. 105
    Kay says:

    @James E Powell:

    I think Democrats do want that. I hope the candidates aren’t cowed by lectures about how they have to be “positive”. Democrats want them to rip Trump and it’s a Democratic primary.

    There something about women attacking Donald Trump that I just really go for. Klobachur was sneering at him.

  106. 106
    Jeffro says:

    @Jeffro: PS even Twitter Dick Nixon caught this!

  107. 107
    Jeffro says:

    @mrmoshpotato: Why…the DeBlasio party, of course! LOL

  108. 108
    Plato says:

    Who gets to decide the winners and who go to the next round?

  109. 109
    Juju says:

    @Betty Cracker: it depends on how big your house is. I was looking into getting a whole house generator before the last hurricane blew through. One of the previous hurricanes flooded and we lost power for over a week. The power company improved the power stations and whatnot and we didn’t even have a flicker during Florence where I live. I live inland, so the threat is heavy rain and strong wind. I’m still contemplating a whole house generator. Friends who have them love the piece of mind they give.

  110. 110
    Jeffro says:

    @MazeDancer: that’s a start, for sure…

  111. 111
    jl says:

    Meghan McCain thinks it’s insightful snark to complain that the candidates in a Democratic primary debated didn’t try to reach out to GOP voters.

  112. 112
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I liked Castro more than I expected to (already liked him). Warren didn’t get as much mic/camera time as I had hoped, but I still like her. Di Blasio was as Di Blah as I anticipated. Booker comported himself very well, but failed to move the needle for me.

  113. 113
    HumboldtBlue says:

    Just reporting that the website has gone haywire from my end. It’s here, but it’s like 2002 in a community-college-computer-lab-quality.

  114. 114
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jeffro: Huh?

  115. 115
    jl says:

    @Kay: “There something about women attacking Donald Trump that I just really go for. Klobachur was sneering at him.”

    As a guy, it kind of turns me on too. Maybe I should talk with my therapist about that? Is that weird?

  116. 116
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Meghan McCain is a fool.

  117. 117
    Kay says:

    Why does Chris Matthews pretend he’s a factory worker? It’s embarrassing.

  118. 118
    mrmoshpotato says:


    Meghan McCain thinks it’s insightful snark to complain that the candidates in a Democratic primary debated didn’t try to reach out to GOP voters.

    Has anyone seen my eyes? They rolled out of my head.

  119. 119
    jl says:

    @MazeDancer: You’ve got Gabbard twice.

  120. 120
    Steeplejack says:


    Noted downstairs.

  121. 121
    Johnnybuck says:

    Castro did best
    Booker impressed
    Warren held serve
    Beto had some moments
    he rest.. eh

  122. 122
    Avalune says:

    I’m sorry I couldn’t stop shouting shut up Chuck and thinking about how much Corey Booker looks like the flyers mascot to pay attention to what anyone was saying.

  123. 123
    NotMax says:

    No one flamed out, although a few were singed around the edges to varying degrees by the end of the thing.

    Oh gawd. Just now, from Tweety: “I was really impressed with de Blasio tonight.” Gag me with a spatula.

  124. 124
    Kent says:

    This was basically the first time I remember seeing Ryan speak and gotta say I was thinking: T H I S is the guy who thought he could bring down Pelosi? THIS GUY? For fucks sake. I can’t think of a better example of white male privilege then that.

  125. 125
    BlueDWarrior says:

    @SenyorDave: yeah that’s a question I don’t understand.

    How does a Democrat deal with a Senate Majority Leader who has declared that Democrats don’t get to govern without beating him in an election or putting him in the minority?

    That essentially is the only plan, beat him and/or his party in the Senate elections next year.

  126. 126
    zhena gogolia says:

    Good night, all. Thanks for giving me some vague idea of what happened without my having to actually watch it.

    I hope Kamala can get a word in edgewise tomorrow around the shouty old men.

  127. 127
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @MazeDancer: I think Inslee was your second Gabbard, and yeah. But she does get thanks for owning Ryan and helping him play up his negatives.

    Klobuchar and O’Rourke really don’t appeal to me, either.

  128. 128
    Kay says:


    He’s horrible. OMG, he’s talking about the “good war” again. I have to turn it off.

  129. 129
    Betty Cracker says:

    Power’s back just in time for me to watch Chris Matthews slobber over De Blasio. Fucksake.

  130. 130
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe on second thought, don’t get a generator . . . .

  131. 131
    jl says:

    @NotMax: “Just now, from Tweety: “I was really impressed with de Blasio tonight.” Gag me with a spatula.”

    de Blasio interrupted a lot in a very irritating way. But I didn’t see him spray spittle all over people, and he seemed to at least know what the other people were saying.

    So, I guess just the annoying interruptions were enough to charm Matthews.

  132. 132
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kent: wait till tomorrow night: Seth Moulton

    @SiubhanDuinne: the phrase “born on third base and thinks she hit a triple” doesn’t begin to adequately express her sense o entitlement and negative self-awareness (the latter phrase coined for her by Twitter Nixon)

  133. 133
    chris says:

    CNN’s fact-checking team apparently somewhat dumbstruck by the lack of lies. So far: one “check” and it’s basically true.— Dan Froomkin (@froomkin) 27 June 2019

  134. 134
    Tazj says:

    @Kay: I hate the way he’s praising Tim Ryan for framing the Democratic Party as elitists and being the coastal party. It’s so stupid. What party wanted to raise the minimum wage (and did in many places) and get affordable healthcare for everyone. What party saved the auto industry?

  135. 135
    RandomMonster says:

    I was impressed by Booker. Still love Warren the most. Everyone else: who?

  136. 136
    patrick II says:


    Does Meghan want a Democratic candidate to be in favor of child concentration camps, war with Iran, or more tax breaks for the very rich?

  137. 137
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: @Betty Cracker: I don’t often miss Keith Olbermann, but the way he didn’t even attempt to hide his scorn for Tweety was always fun. MSNBC’s audience must skew even older than I thought– and I’m fifty-one– if they think all that Kennedy-Nixon era nostalgia is a plus

  138. 138
    Kent says:

    @Ivan X:

    Also, he pitched Warren (my personal favey) a softball when he asked her if she had “a plan” for dealing with Mitch McConnell, which I think is a legit question, and she said “I do,” and I got all excited, and then she gave a non-answer, suggesting that in fact she doesn’t. I was disappointed. How are we gonna deal with effing McConnell?

    The constitution is pretty fucking vague about the process for advise and consent in the Senate. If we wind up with another McConnell filibuster of a SCOTUS candidate as president I would nominate one of the top jurists in America that a wide majority of Americans can get behind, and then send them up to the Supreme Court with or without confirmation. Mr. McConnell. If you aren’t going to do your job then we will just have to presume that the Senate consents in this nomation. If you don’t like it then find 50 votes to reject her. And I’d send along a fucking secret service escort to make sure no one gets in her way. Force

    Balls to the wall hard ball and tearing up the rulebook is how you deal with McConnell.

    Make Collins and Murkowski actually follow McConnell’s lead and vote AGAINST a super well qualified pro-choice woman for SCOTUS.

  139. 139
    Ohio Mom says:

    Warren is still my favorite but I do appreciate Inslee for declaring climate change THE issue of our time.

    He’s going to keep it part of the conversation — without him it would probably be forgotten among all the other issues.

    And there sure are a lot of other issues. If I wasn’t so intent on watching how the candidates comported themselves, and let the sheer number of challenges facing us sink in, I might be immobilized with despair.

  140. 140
    Bupalos says:

    @Juju: yes I think with global warming you need to make sure you can keep feeding it when it knocks the power out. Don’t let anything interrupt fossil fuel use.

  141. 141
    Madeleine says:

    I became annoyed at the disparity of time given to candidates. Warren, as I perceived it, was asked about little, given little time–and, though Klobuchar was able to get in, I perceived a distinct gender bias in the questioners and a willingness to let the men butt in. Eventually, I also began to feel impatient; Leto (at #56) put his finger on it: Todd allowing the pontificating. Warren doesn’t do that; she tells us what she thinks the problem is and what she’ll do about it. Boring, I guess, for the likes of Todd. (Despite the foregoing, I have more positive views of Booker and Klobuchar than I did before this evening and I’d like to see more of Castro.)

  142. 142
    Hitlesswonder says:

    I think that Warren should have said if the Russians can get McConnell to implement policies favorable to them in return for factories, that surely her administration could work with him as well. Maybe locating a new American factory in Kentucky would get him to implement policy that helps America.:

  143. 143
    emrys says:

    @Juju: it is costly, but we decided to get one after
    Michael came within 40 miles of coming right through Tallahassee. We were lucky to lose power for only three days. Of course, everyone else feels the same and while the generator is sitting in our back yard, there is a long wait for getting the gas line In. We hope it will get hooked up before the season is over.

  144. 144
    Jeffro says:

    @mrmoshpotato: The imaginary Democratic Party that exists in his mind and can only hear/respond to/act on his amazing insights!

  145. 145
    Kent says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    @Kay: @Betty Cracker: I don’t often miss Keith Olbermann, but the way he didn’t even attempt to hide his scorn for Tweety was always fun. MSNBC’s audience must skew even older than I thought– and I’m fifty-one– if they think all that Kennedy-Nixon era nostalgia is a plus

    No, it’s not. I’m 55 and I wasn’t even born back then either. I gave tweety a long leash for a long time because he was a fellow Peace Corps volunteer. But he’s long ago worn out his welcome with me too. We need new blood.

  146. 146
    Jackie says:

    @mrmoshpotato: 😂🤣😂 And you made me spew perfectly good wine…🤭

  147. 147
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @jl: DeBlasio represents perfectly the demographic of shouty interrupting white guys who have an inflated sense of importance and think they alone can save the Democratic party. As opposed to the one tomorrow who doesn’t give a shit about the Democratic party.

  148. 148
    Betty Cracker says:

    Klobuchar pushing back on Tweety’s bullshit pretty well.

  149. 149
    Kent says:

    @Madeleine: Anyone see any actual data on time actually alloted to each candidate in this debate? I’d be curious to see that and see if it actually matches our perceptions.

  150. 150
    James E Powell says:


    How are you going to beat Trump? – It’s the only question. I don’t give a damn about anything else.

  151. 151
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kent: Joy Reid would be wonderful in the 7 pm slot if she’d take it.

  152. 152
    Avalune says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    and let the sheer number of challenges facing us sink in, I might be immobilized with despair.

    This is exactly why I kept posting gifs of Gritty in a group chat every time Booker spoke instead of trying to have a serious discussion.

  153. 153
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @RandomMonster: I was impressed by Booker as well. I liked Beto, but I have had a soft spot for him since his 2016 senate run and I am the kind of guy who really liked John Kerry’s style. Amy Klobuchar reminded me of female classmates in my high school IB classes (that’s neither a positive nor a negative – she just comes off as smart as hell Upper Midwestern woman). Warren was Warren – at the moment Harris is still preferable to me.

  154. 154
    Mike in DC says:

    Every time I see Chris Matthews I wonder when his contract with MSNBC will expire, precisely, so I can organize an online petition drive to “retire” him from the network.

  155. 155
    Eljai says:

    Chris Matthews is pretending like he was always against the Iraq war. He must think we don’t remember how he drooled over Dubya in a flight suit.

  156. 156
    Betty Cracker says:

    Anecdata point: I asked my 20-year-old daughter was she thought, and she replied: “Warren-Castro 2020.” Works for me!

  157. 157
    Mary G says:

    @Madeleine: Here’s a chart. Warren had the 3rd most time, which surprised me,

    Here’s the final speaking time count from the first night of the #DemDebate:— The Boston Globe (@BostonGlobe) June 27, 2019

  158. 158
    Steeplejack says:


    A noun, a verb, and Dad.

    — Charles P. Pierce (@CharlesPPierce) June 25, 2019

  159. 159
    Eljai says:

    @Betty Cracker: Works for me too! And Kamala can be appointed Attorney General!

  160. 160
    Steeplejack says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Or even move Nicolle Wallace up there from four o’clock. I’ve been watching her lately, and she seems to have more substantive discussions with her panels.

    ETA: But I heartily second the suggestion of Joy Reid.

  161. 161
    mrmoshpotato says:


    😂🤣😂 And you made me spew perfectly good wine…🤭

    A friend of mine calls situations like that ‘alcohol abuse’. I hope it was white wine.

  162. 162
    MazeDancer says:

    @jl: @Bobby Thomson:

    Oops. Yes, delete Inslee.

    Freud slipping my utter disgust at( homophobic, Russian stooge taking up space.
    but delete Gabbard twice, that’s okay.

  163. 163
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Eljai: I am sorry, but there are lots of lawyers who could do that job. Let’s not denude the senate to fill the cabinet.

  164. 164
    Steeplejack says:

    Colbert on Beto O’Rourke dropping the Spanish: “Locking up the Latino vote or impersonating ‘embarrasing dad at Mexican restaurant.’”

  165. 165
    Porky Pine says:

    @Kent: This, a thousand times! If McConnell ever pulls another outrage such as was done to Garland, a Dem president should say “time’s up, my nominee is on the court.”

    And between now and next year, I want to see some real investigative journalism on that corrupt bastard, starting with this hinky aluminum refinery that Oleg Deripaska is going to build in Kentucky.

    And buh-bye to effing Susan Collins next year, too!

  166. 166
    Kent says:

    @Mary G: DeBlasio had the second least speaking time. That’s a surprise and different from my life perceptions. Booker had the most which sounds about right.

  167. 167
    NotMax says:


    Or how he wielded the substantial clout he had at the time with the network to have Phil Donahue summarily dropped from the on air roster precisely because Donahue was against that war.

  168. 168
    Mike in NC says:

    @Eljai: Didn’t Tweety get a thrill up his leg at seeing Dubya in faux flight gear?

  169. 169
    Redshift says:


    Anyone see any actual data on time actually alloted to each candidate in this debate? I’d be curious to see that and see if it actually matches our perceptions.

    The Post has it. Warren has the third most, after Booker and Beto.

  170. 170
    Betty Cracker says:

    Tweety and Ryan just formed a matrix of douche-baggery that could rip the space-time continuum.

  171. 171
    Jackie says:

    @mrmoshpotato: sadly no… an excellent cab🍷

  172. 172
    jl says:

    In a surprisingly strong dark horse performance at the first debate, Chuck Todd was very aggressive and got in more words than seven candidates, after Booker, O’Rourke and Warren.

    Sad for O’Rourke, who didn’t seem to have a strategy at all for the debate or much to say, his second place in wordage may have hurt him more than helped.
    For some reason, Beto prepared a bunch of stump speech or town hall style anecdotes that just would not work at all in this short format debate. Then he seemed panicked when he ran out of time and hadn’t really said anything on policy.

    ” Cory Booker spoke the most words tonight.
    Beto O’Rourke was second.
    Elizabeth Warren was third.
    Chuck Todd, one of the debate’s moderators, spoke just 4 words less than Warren and more words than 7 of the candidates on stage. ”

  173. 173
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    This is funny. Meghan McCain tweeted and deleted her support for Tulsi Gabbard, but not before Tulsi’s sister V. Gabbard caught it.
    Shocking to see a spoiled heiress who thinks she’s a successful… something get taken in by a family of grifters. I’m sure trust-fund babies are never targeted by con artists*.

    Tulsi Gabbard @ TulsiGabbard
    Meghan displayed a moment of courage to tweet this out before deleting it. Tulsi’s lived a lifetime of courage – and she won’t cave to establishment pressure. -V

    * along those lines, I just today read in the NYT book review Tina Brown’s write up of a history of the Plaza Hotel, where she says it was trump’s alleged good friend Tom Barrack who fleeced him out of the Plaza in one of our stable genius’s many business failures. I imagine Tina Brown was plugged into all the Mahhattan gossip back in the day.

  174. 174
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    a matrix of douche-baggery

    Thank you. I’ll be adding this to my repertoire.

  175. 175
    Kent says:

    @Betty Cracker: Remember, THAT was the guy who thought he could take down Leader Pelosi. THAT guy.

  176. 176
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jackie: I take no responsibility for anything that was stained. :)

  177. 177
    feebog says:

    I agree with those who think Booker got some traction. I also think Warren got plenty of time and the stats will prove it. I would vote Delaney and Ryan off the island at this point. Points to Gabbard for taking on Ryan’s Afghanistan occupation forever remarks. None of the rest really stood out for me.

  178. 178
    Mai Naem mobile says:

    I would vote for any of ours over Trumpov. Even fucking Tulsi. I thought Ryan was the most worthless. Followed by Blasio and Tulsi. I was impressed with Inslee but Warren would get my vote for the ones on stage today. I am still not sure about Warren as a national candidate against Trumpov.

  179. 179
    debbie says:


    He’s still smarting after not wresting the gavel from Nancy.

  180. 180
    hitchhiker says:

    @Mike in NC:

    It was worse than that, as I recall. He ‘splained that Dubya had it made because all the WIMMIN were going to swoon over that flight suit.

  181. 181
    Steeplejack says:

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez starting on Colbert right now.

  182. 182
    patrick II says:



    “I was really impressed with de Blasio tonight.”

    Of course he did. He admired the way de Blasio interrupted other people’s answers.

    I am not kidding either.

  183. 183
    Kent says:

    Warren killing it with Tweety right now.

    Can you tell when one of your Senate colleagues has been bought?

    [long pause and a wry smile] “When the vote? Sometimes…..and sometimes you gotta wonder”

  184. 184
    Eljai says:

    Is it just me or is Donny Deutsch kind of an insufferable dick?

  185. 185
    hilts says:

    Nice to see Lawrence O’Donnell strike a nerve with Donny Deutsch after telling him that his prediction of Warren losing to Trump in a landslide was meaningless. You go Lawrence!

  186. 186
    hilts says:


    It’s not you, Donny Deutsch is an insufferable dick.

  187. 187
    hilts says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    God do I miss Keith Olbermensch.

  188. 188
    SenyorDave says:

    @hilts: There is no way Warren would lose to Trump in a landslide. At the very least Warren, or any credible Democrat, should be able to hold on to the states that Clinton won. I am not dismissing the possibility that Trump will win, but I think things will have to break his way, and that assumes that the economy stays in good shape. Many of the people who don’t support Trump hate him.
    A lot of people forget that Trump won PA, WI and MI. If the election were held right now I think he would lose all three of those states.

  189. 189
    Eljai says:

    @hilts: LOL! It was gratifying to see O’Donnell challenging him.

  190. 190
    Suzanne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Klobuchar has this kind of thing with her mouth that she does—kind of turns up on one side—that irks me a little bit. It looks like she’s laughing slightly at whomever she’s talking to or about. Booker stood out for me. So far, I’ve been annoyed by his blather about his campaign of love. But he was good tonight.

    Honestly, I can vote for any of them. I definitely have preferences, and I thought Delaney and de Blasio were extra-special irritating tonight, but whatever. We have a good slate.

  191. 191
    jl says:

    @SenyorDave: ” that assumes that the economy stays in good shape. ”

    chances of that are starting to nose dive. I think now far over 50 percent that we’ll be in at least a ‘growth recession’ (similar to that during 2016 campaign) by summer 2020. Substantially over 50 percent we’ll be in international OECD definition of a recession (though not by definition used in the US). That would be enough to sink Trump, as it played a part in sinking HRC.

    I don’t know whether chance of recession by US definition by summer 2020 is around 50 percent and growing every day.

  192. 192
    Jackie says:

    @mrmoshpotato: OxyClean is the red wine miracle cleaner – with a lot of soaking prior to actual wash👍🏻

  193. 193
    jl says:

    @Suzanne: Huge gap for de Blasio between some excellent answers and comments, and extremely irritating manner.
    And I don’t like the term ‘mansplaining’, maybe because I am a man… but whatever you want to call it, de Blasio was a good example tonight.

  194. 194
    Omnes Omnibus says:


    We have a good slate.

    True. The strongest impression I had was that we have a bunch of smart, capable people on our side. And that is a good thing.

  195. 195
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    this made me laugh, and I didn’t even watch the debate

    Mediaite @ Mediaite
    MSNBC’s Nicolle Wallace, Fmr Sen McCaskill Knock de Blasio After Debate: ‘Mildly Irritating,’ ‘Obnoxious’

  196. 196
    jl says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: takes one to know one. She’s about as much expert as de Blasio.

  197. 197
    hilts says:

    @SenyorDave: @Eljai:

    Donny Deutsch is completely full of shit when he claims that Warren would lose 47 states to Trump. I think many pundits have this stupid idea that only Biden can beat Trump and they’re going to do their damnedest to ram this buffoon down our throats.

  198. 198
    Peej01 says:

    Delaney used to be my Congressman from the Maryland district that’s the subject of the Supreme Court gerrymandering case (IMO, the only reason he made it to Congress in the first place).

  199. 199
    Waynski says:

    @Mike in DC: I don’t see Tweety’s contract getting renewed other than a Tom Brokaw like role, occasionally dropping in as a commenter on other shows until he eventually fades away. I think, IIRC, there was some real debate at MSNBC whether or not to cut him when his last contract was being negotiated. I don’t believe he’ll survive the next inauguration.

  200. 200
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Matthews declared Dan Quayle the winner of the 1988 vice presidential debate against Lloyd Bentsen, despite the Democrat’s memorable zinger that he knew Jack Kennedy and Quayle was no Kennedy

    Tweety is always going to take a contrarian position

  201. 201
    Shalimar says:

    @Eljai: Deutsch ran in the same circles as Trump and was friends with him for years. Of course he’s an asshole.

  202. 202
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Women want to be her, men want to mate with her. it’s as simple as that. … Men want a sexy woman. Women want to idealize about a sexy woman. She’s the perfect age…she’s still young enough to have that physical appeal. That’s the perfect ingredient to sell a woman in power.

    We want to have her over for dinner. I trust her. I want her watching my kids. I want her laying next to me in bed. That’s the way people vote.

    This is the new Ronald Reagan. you know why? Ronald Reagan just made people feel good!

    Donny Deutch on Sarah Palin

  203. 203
    Kathleen says:

    @Kay: Todd and Co. play the role of representing Real Americans who are incensed that Democrats think “those people” are as important as white people.

  204. 204
    Citizen Alan says:

    @Ivan X:

    To be fair, I have no idea what a Democratic president can do about Turtle if the Republicans hold the Senate. Do you?

  205. 205
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Citizen Alan: Have the attorney general look into McConnell’s crooked deals? I don’t know if that is legally possible but there’s plenty of stuff to embarrass the Turtle with.

  206. 206
    Jinchi says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Just listened to Chris Matthews interviewing Elizabeth Warren after the debate and good God the man does not shut up!

    He also shows no interest in hearing actual answers to his questions, constantly cutting her off with quips like “You’re on a roll” or “Sounds like you’ve done your homework.”

  207. 207
    Jinchi says:


    There is no way Warren would lose to Trump in a landslide.

    I expect Warren to absolutely destroy Trump next November.

  208. 208
    jk says:


    I expect Warren to absolutely destroy Trump next November.

    Before that time, I look forward to Warren wiping the floor with Biden.

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