Let’s Put an End To This Stupidity Right Now: They’re Concentration Camps

We are very fortunate that the US Holocaust Museum has spent the time, money, and effort to compile an Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945.

Auschwitz, Dachau, the Warsaw Ghetto… These are names that resonate with anyone who knows the story of the Holocaust. Most people are shocked, however, to learn just how many camps, ghettos, and other sites of detention, persecution, forced labor, and murder the Nazis and their allies ran: over 42,000. Likewise, few people know much about the conditions in those places, or how broad the range of prisoner experiences was.

In order to fill this vast gap in our knowledge, the Museum and Indiana University Press are compiling and publishing an Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945. Specifically, the work aims to answer basic questions about as many individual sites as possible; to provide scholars with leads for additional research; and to memorialize the places where so many millions of people suffered and died.

Work on this enormous project began in 1999; it involves a small team of editors, writers, and researchers at the Museum, plus hundreds of volunteers and scholars from all over the world. Three volumes have already appeared, and four more are in preparation. When it is complete, the Encyclopedia will be the most comprehensive and up-to-date guide to the Nazi camp system in existence.

Volume one entitled, Early Camps, Youth Camps, and Concentration Camps and Subcamps under the SS-Business Administration Main Office (WVHA), focuses on (emphasis mine):

This volume contains entries on 110 early camps, 23 main SS concentration camps (including Auschwitz, Buchenwald, and Dachau), 898 subcamps, 39 SS construction brigade camps, and three so-called youth protection camps. Introductory essays provide broader context, while citations and source narratives offer the basis for additional research.

From Volume I (pps. 1525-1526 and emphasis mine):


The idea of establishing a separate prevention institution (Bewahranstalt) or assembly camp (Sammellager) for the “difficult or impossible to educate” youth, who had become noticed because of their stubborn and deviant behavior, was not new. From the mid-1920s, youth welfare workers, lawyers, medical practitioners, psychiatrists, and adherents of the “racial hy- giene” movement had been demanding such institutions to deal with the high level of care (and thus expense) for such youths. Without any further education, they would be held for an indefinite period of time in such institutions with their labor being exploited. Those advocating such a policy were not successful during the Weimar Republic, but this changed from 1933 with the assumption of power by the National Socialists and the establishment of the concentration camp system.

A series of decrees and orders from 1937 set the legal and institutional basis for the struggle against youth de- generation. A decree dated October 14, 1937, on “preventive criminal measures” established what was regarded as “asocial behavior,” which was “someone who acts against the community, even if such actions were not criminal, but showed that he or she did not want to be part of the community.”1 This decree formed the basis for the persecution of anyone who deviated from National Socialist norms and ideals. In 1938, there followed a further series of decrees and regulations that dealt with the treatment of asocials and called for the “protective custody” of whole families as well as suggesting the registration and police surveillance of asocials.

Following a circular decree by the Reich Ministry of the Interior (RMdI) on May 24, 1939, the Reich Center for Combating Youth Criminality (Reichszentrale zur Bekämpfung der Jugendkriminalität) was established as a department of the Reich Criminal Police Office (Reichskriminalpolizeiamt, RKPA). This authority was tasked with the police surveillance of youths and the power to use force, including sending youths to closed reform institutes. Later, it would be in charge of the “police youth protection camps” (polizeiliche Jugendschutzlager). In actuality, they were concentration camps for youths. On December 22, 1939, at a conference on “degenerate youth,” Reinhard Heydrich demanded the establishment of reform camps for youths (Jugenderziehungslagern). This demand was supported in the following months by Hermann Göring and Heinrich Himmler. On June 26, 1940, the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) issued a circular announcing that the confinement of youths to police youth protective custody camps could begin within a short period of time. In the end, three such camps opened: Morin- gen (for boys) in August 1940, Uckermark (for girls) in June 1942, and Litzmannstadt (for Polish juveniles) in December 1942. All remained in operation almost until the end of the war.

Youths were admitted to the Jugendschutzlager on racial, religious, or political grounds. They included the so called Hamburg Swing Youth (Swing Jugend), who were accused of establishing a dangerous clique even though they only wanted to listen to jazz, then regarded as un-German, and had formed their own subcultures to do so. The authorities also confined homosexuals, Sinti and Roma (Gypsies), Jews, and Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Youths in the camps were subjected to military drill, euphemistically termed “community training” (Gemeinschaftserziehung). The stated aim was character education, focusing on cleanliness, order, punctuality, discipline, and above all, work. The inmates worked on agricultural estates, at armaments firms, and at workshops of various sorts. Living arrangements were primitive, the food and clothing inadequate, and the punishments severe. Death rates were not as high as in some of the adult concentration camps, but prisoners did die in significant numbers.

SOURCES Sources on the youth protection camps can be found in the individual camp entries.

Jürgen Harder


1. Quoted in Detlef Peukert, Volksgenossen und Gemein- schaftsfremde. Anpassung, Ausmerze und Aufbegehren unter dem Nationalsozialismus (Cologne, 1982), p. 250.

They’re concentration camps.

Open thread.

156 replies
  1. 1
    zhena gogolia says:

    Thank you, Adam.

  2. 2
  3. 3
    TenguPhule says:

    I want the first Republican who uses the term “Freedom Camp” to be run out of DC on a rail.

  4. 4
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    What I think is happening is that groups like the AJC have started sucking Trump’s dick. How else to explain the whole kerfluffle about whether or not the camps are called “concentration camps?”. Holocausts don’t usually go straight to mass executions. There’s a long process of dehumanization and casual brutality, as they weed out mere bullies from the kind of people who would willingly serve as death camp guards, and they hope that people would forget about the horror.

  5. 5
    Betty Cracker says:

    Some folks seem equal to this moment. Some don’t. AOC is among the former.

  6. 6

    They have been that for at least a year if not more.

  7. 7
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @CarolDuhart2: They don’t want Adelson and the guy who funds JINSA and those in Zuckerman’s funding network to stop making donations.

  8. 8
    ccl says:

    Thank you, Adam.

  9. 9
    Procopius says:

    Thank you for this. I’ve save to Pocket so I can find it later. The woman pleading before the Ninth Circuit that children in the camps do not need soap, toothbrushes, blankets, beds, or medical care to have a “safe and sanitary environment” is Sarah Fabian.

  10. 10
    CarolDuhart2 says:

    Its the same “respectability” politics that MLK had to deal with. Not just the often quoted white moderates who objected to the noise, not the cause of the noise. But there were black folks who were willing to trade freedom for the rare status of being the only “acceptable” black people in power or to have anything. That’s the “Clarence Thomas” syndrome: mediocrities only being important because they sucked up to the power brokers and then punched down.

  11. 11
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Likudnik scum once again getting it totally wrong and damaging Israel in the process.

  12. 12
    Scotian says:

    Yes, they are indeed. This attempt to merge death camps with concentration camps was transparent from the outset, total BS, and exactly what one has come to expect from not just the Trumpistas but the GOP and its defenders.

    I remember growing up hearing Americans saying they could not understand how any society could be so evil to its own, and that of course no such thing could ever happen here/America. Well, we have seen the good Americans rising up just as we saw of the good Germans back in the day, and as sickening as I find the defenders, it is the mealy mouthed tone/word police that has become the US national political media in actually facing this head on that truly infuriates me.

    Of course they are concentration camps!

  13. 13
    Molloy says:

    Speaking of the US Holocaust Museum, I refer you to this statement from Edna Friedberg, Ph.D., a historian in the Museum’s William Levine Family Institute for Holocaust Education.:

    Nazis seem to be everywhere these days. I don’t mean self-proclaimed neo-Nazis. I’m talking about folks being labeled as Nazis, Hitler, Gestapo, Goering — take your pick — by their political opponents. American politicians from across the ideological spectrum, influential media figures, and ordinary people on social media casually use Holocaust terminology to bash anyone or any policy with which they disagree. The takedown is so common that it’s even earned its own term, reductio ad Hitlerum.

    This trend is far from new, but it is escalating at a disturbing rate in increasingly polarized times. The Holocaust has become shorthand for good vs. evil; it is the epithet to end all epithets. And the current environment of rapid fire online communication and viral memes lends itself particularly well to this sort of sloppy analogizing. Worse, it allows it to spread more widely and quickly.

    This oversimplified approach to complex history is dangerous. When conducted with integrity and rigor, the study of history raises more questions than answers. And as the most extensively documented crime the world has ever seen, the Holocaust offers an unmatched case study in how societies fall apart, in the immutability of human nature, in the dangers of unchecked state power. It is more than European or Jewish history. It is human history. Almost 40 years ago, the United States Congress chartered a Holocaust memorial on the National Mall for precisely this reason: The questions raised by the Holocaust transcend all divides.

    Neither the political right nor left has a monopoly on exploiting the six million Jews murdered in a state-sponsored, systematic campaign of genocide to demonize or intimidate their political opponents. Recently, some conservative media figures explicitly likened Parkland, FL students advocating for tightened gun control to Hitler Youth, operating in the service of a shadowy authoritarian conspiracy. This allegation included splicing images of these students onto historical film footage of Nazi rallies, reflecting the ease with which many Americans associate the sound of German shouting with a threat to personal liberties. A state representative in Minnesota joined the online bandwagon in these accusations.

    Perhaps most popular this year have been accusations of “Nazism” and “fascism” against federal authorities for their treatment of children separated from their parents at the US border with Mexico. “Remember, other governments put kids in camps,” is a typical rallying cry from some immigration advocates. Even a person as well versed in the tenuous balance between national security and compassion, the former head of the CIA, took to Twitter to criticize federal policies toward illegal migrants using a black and white photo of the iconic train tracks leading the Auschwitz-Birkenau killing center. Nazi comparisons have also been leveled against the federal government in connection with a travel ban on individuals from predominantly Muslim countries. Animal rights proponents have consistently decried what they call “the Holocaust on your plate” in critiquing today’s meat industry. The list goes on.

    It is all too easy to forget that there are many people still alive for whom the Holocaust is not “history,” but their life story and that of their families. These are not abstract tragedies on call to win an argument or an election. They carry the painful memories of the brutal murder of a cherished baby boy, the rape of a beloved sister, the parents arrested and never seen again.

    As the Holocaust recedes in time, some Americans (and Europeans) are becoming increasingly casual and disrespectful to the mass murder of millions. More dangerous, today the internet disseminates insensitive or hateful remarks with unprecedented ease and influence. Online discussions tend to encourage extreme opinions; they allow people to live in echo chambers of their own ideologies and peers. Weimar Germany — the period between the First World War and the Nazi rise to power — is an exemplar of the threats that emerge when the political center fails to hold, when social trust is allowed to erode and the fissures exploited.

    Quality Holocaust education may have the potential to bridge some of the divides our nation is experiencing. It enables people to pause. To step away from the problems and debates of the present. To be challenged by this catastrophic event of the past. That is what good history education does. It doesn’t preach. It teaches. It engages at a personal level. It promotes self-reflection and critical thinking about the world and one’s own roles and responsibilities. That engagement is lost when we resort to grossly simplified Holocaust analogies. And it demeans the memory of the dead.

    Writing in 1953, the British novelist L.P. Hartley said “The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.” Comparing and categorizing are natural human impulses. We all use categories and analogies to navigate through life. But the nature of Nazi crimes demands that we study the evidence, alert ourselves to warning signs, wrestle with the world’s moral failure. When we reduce it to a flattened morality tale, we forfeit the chance to learn from its horrific specificity. We lose sight of the ordinary human choices that made genocide possible.

    Careless Holocaust analogies may demonize, demean, and intimidate their targets. But there is a cost for all of us because they distract from the real issues challenging our society, because they shut down productive, thoughtful discourse. At a time when our country needs dialogue more than ever, it is especially dangerous to exploit the memory of the Holocaust as a rhetorical cudgel. We owe the survivors more than that. And we owe ourselves more than that.

    h/t https://www.ushmm.org/information/press/press-releases/why-holocaust-analogies-are-dangerous

  14. 14
    Kathleen says:

    Reposting from a couple of posts ago:

    Thank you so much for this passionate, eloquent post, Adam. I consider warm hearts and compassionate souls some of our most powerful weapons. You come to the fight well armed!

  15. 15
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Scotian: How you doing?

  16. 16
    Cacti says:

    I’m sure that no one will be shocked to learn that Tulsi Gabbard was vetted for a position in the Trump Administration.

    Did Vlad change his mind and decide she was better off playing at being a Dem Congresswoman?

  17. 17
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Molloy: I’ve seen her statement. She’s entitled to her opinion, she’s also wrong.

  18. 18
    Kathleen says:

    @Scotian: I love your eloquence!

  19. 19
    Baud says:


    That’ll hurt her chances.

  20. 20
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Agreed. It’s a desperate attempt to deny that it’s happening again.

  21. 21
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Scotian: The NYT and CNN are so busy interviewing “good Germans” in flyover country that they have no time for the KZs.

  22. 22
    Ohio Mom says:

    There’s lots I find admirable about my Jewish heritage but on my best days, I am hugely ambivalent about the organized Jewish Community, and today is not one of my better days.

    They worry incessantly about the future of American Jewry, all the while making the current-day American Jewish community as repulsive as possible. Their embrace of right-wing values and causes pushes the best, most “Jewish” Jews away.

    Clue for the Holocaust Museum, the American Jewish Congress and all rest denying this crisis or sitting it out: They ARE concentration camps.

    Sign me,
    I grew up surrounded by Survivors, I lost family in the Shoah, I know from concentration camps

  23. 23
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    It’s as if they reason backward from what everyone knew at the end of the war, rather than thinking about the slippery slope that preceded the war.

  24. 24
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Villago Delenda Est: When other historians connected to the Holocaust Museum, other historians of the Holocaust, historians and other scholars of genocide and authoritarianism and fascism and state terror, survivors, the descendants of survivors, the last surviving judge from the Nuremberg Trials, and the survivors of other internments in other concentration camps like George Takei, tell you their concentration camps, they’re concentration camps. When they tell you it’s authoritarian and fascistic, it’s authoritarian and fascistic.

  25. 25
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Have been thinking of you a lot! — much more than I actually say. I hope you were able to give your father a good send-off the other day, and of course I hope that you have your own physical pain under control and your mind at ease.

    Thank you, as always, for your posts. The warmest of {{{{{ HUGS }}}}} and white light and good wishes to you.

  26. 26
    TenguPhule says:


    That’ll hurt her chances.

    Hard to drop below statistically insignificant.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    There’s a weird dynamic that happens often where people believe that we need unanimity before we can credibly make an assertion.

  28. 28
    TenguPhule says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The NYT and CNN are so busy interviewing “good Germans” in flyover country that they have no time for the KZs.

    The silver lining is that we’ll have names and photos to know who to round up for the inevitable trials and retribution.

  29. 29
    Mary G says:

    @Baud: She’ll go from one in a million to one in two million,

  30. 30
    Mnemosyne says:


    These are not abstract tragedies on call to win an argument or an election. They carry the painful memories of the brutal murder of a cherished baby boy, the rape of a beloved sister, the parents arrested and never seen again.

    And yet, all of these exact things are happening to refugees in these camps, in this country, right now. Are we supposed to overlook the pain and suffering of those people because they are not our direct relatives?

  31. 31
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Thanks, Adam. The camps weren’t just for Jews. They simply ran out of others early.

  32. 32
    TenguPhule says:


    Are we supposed to overlook the pain and suffering of those people because they are not our direct relatives?

    Republicans: YES!

  33. 33

    RWNJs love to play these rhetorical games
    Concentration camps vs internment camps/detention centers
    Godse (M K Gandhi’s killer) is a terrorist/Godse is an assassin but a patriot
    and so on.
    All this does is reveal their lack of morality.

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:


    All this does is reveal their lack of morality.

    And their lack of a dictionary.

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:

    @A Ghost To Most:

    It was actually 12 million murdered by the Nazis. Of those 12 million victims, 6 million were Jewish. The others were Roma, LGBT, the disabled, gentile Poles, and more.

  36. 36
    Scotian says:

    @Adam L Silverman:

    Today not so bad overall pain wise, but in general things have not been going well. Worse, I have reason to fear a family blowup as I have been essentially treated like my opinions let alone last wishes matter not. I hope I am misreading this, but am being forced to have a mediator come in to protect me and my wife. That this is happening is also causing me great internal pain, especially since I was dad’s caregiver and it is likely the strains from that is why my cancer triggered when it did. Hopefully this gets resolved the way it should be, but this was something rather unexpected so just one more example of how if I wasn’t having bad luck I’d be no luck. *SIGH*

    Kathleen, thank you, one tries.

  37. 37
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Molloy: Careless Holocaust analogies are indeed a bad thing. Carefully thought out ones are another matter.

  38. 38
    MagdaInBlack says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    “….thoughtful discourse…” She want thoughtful discourse and dialogue?!
    With whom?

  39. 39
    Lee says:

    I see the Holocaust museum out out a press release that we should not compare what is going on in the US to the concentration camps of NaziGermnay

    I wonder whose arm got twisted for that.

  40. 40
    chris says:

    @Scotian: I was thinking of you this afternoon while I was out inspecting the lupines. Came home and put away the snow shovel because lupines mean that summer is here. Sort of. I’ll be at loose ends in Hfx early next week if you want or need anything.

  41. 41
    TenguPhule says:


    I see the Holocaust museum out out a press release that we should not compare what is going on in the US to the concentration camps of NaziGermnay

    At least not until the American ones get court mandated showers and furnaces. //s

  42. 42
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Yep. Add the disabled, atheists, communists, and socialists. They went first.

    Now, to listen to Red Rider’s “Lunatic Fringe” 3 or 4 times. It’s my fighting song.

  43. 43
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Molloy: Edna Friedberg’s first error is discounting that there are indeed Nazis everywhere today. Maybe she wasn’t spooked by all those white tiki-torch bearers yelling “Jews will not replace us!” but i sure was.

    Her second mistake is leaving out the five million non-Jews who were murdered by the Nazis.

    I know I am a broken record on this, but it is a peculiar sort of Holocaust denialism to omit those deaths. Would the Holocaust be less horrendous if no Jews were included?

  44. 44
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    This is going out to the entire Wisconsin Congressional delegation. My actual rep and senators have already received it, but I figure I should inflict it on all the fuckers – good and bad. It’s fairly short, but I hope it is to the point:

    Our country is running concentration camps. I can’t believe that I am having to type those words, but we are running concentration camps. People fleeing violence and looking for a safe place to raise their children are coming to our borders, and people acting in our names are tearing families apart. Children are being herded into overcrowded facilities and then denied toothbrushes, soap, mattresses, and blankets. This isn’t happening because of a sudden rush of refugees overwhelmed a system that is trying to do the right thing. I could understand how that might happen, and I would have confidence that people would work overtime to fix things. This is different. This is happening because the current administration is choosing to make it happen in violation of US and international law. I will do whatever is in my power to stop these crimes that are being committed in our names. I implore you to do the same.

  45. 45
    Ruckus says:

    @Adam L Silverman:
    Discourse with self proclaimed nazis?
    Excuse me…….
    Fucking discourse with self proclaimed nazis?
    Yeah, she’s wrong.

  46. 46

    OT: I have a guest blogger today, juicer John Manchester, who writes about the idea you start with in composing music or writing fiction sometimes fades away and is unnecessary to the final product. He compares it to the lost wax process.

  47. 47
    TenguPhule says:

    White House to bar Conway from testifying about alleged violations of Hatch Act
    Anticipating counselor Kellyanne Conway’s noncompliance, the House Oversight Committee plans to vote Wednesday on a subpoena to force her testimony.

    Another day, Another Middle Finger from Trump towards law and order.

  48. 48
    BigJimSlade says:

    @TenguPhule: run out on a rail? How about on a pike.

  49. 49
    Jay says:


    {{{{{Scotian and SWMBO}}}}}

  50. 50
    TenguPhule says:

    Despite new law, Trump administration has not given Puerto Rico emergency food stamp aid
    The president signed into law $600 million in emergency food stamps for Puerto Rico on June 6, but the aid may not arrive until September.

    The emergency with Trump at the helm already happened. As we have all seen, he fucks everything up.

    Puerto Rico’s people will never recover from another hit by a Hurricane this year. Calling it now.

  51. 51
    UncleEbeneezer says:

    Action Together Network is asking people to call our Federal Reps. Script:

    “I am calling to ask that you push for an immediate investigation into the activities by ICE and CBP at the border, including hearings for the deaths of immigrants that happened under their watch and that if (legislator) has not done so already, that you sign and fight for HB2415 The Dignity For Detained Immigrants Act, to prevent this from continuing to happen in the future. As Americans, we cannot allow human rights abuses to happen in our own country. No matter where someone came from or how they arrived here, the people being detained are human beings and should be treated with dignity and respect. The lack of oversight by an independent agency has fostered an environment of terrible neglect and violence; detainees are becoming ill and traumatized from the terrible conditions, even dying in these detention centers. As a person of conscience, I cannot be silent – I am gravely concerned by this escalating situation and ask that you act now to prevent further abuse.”


  52. 52
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Wood sculpture is often that way. You start with an idea, but the wood has other ideas.

  53. 53
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Bill Maher is pissed that AOC called the detention facilities “concentration camps”. Can’t stand him. He stays missing the dang point.

  54. 54
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @Patricia Kayden: Chuck Toady as well.

  55. 55
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Scotian: Oh Foof on your extended family! I have a story about my sister and BIL trying to pull shenanigans with my mother’s estate. My brother and I were not amused.

    Seems like this kind of thing is all too common, and that is a sad thing to note.

    Do what you must but also make time to take good care of yourself and enjoy the time you have left with Mrs.Scotian.

  56. 56
    dmsilev says:


    And, it should also be remembered, this is hardly the first time the US has operated concentration camps like this. Manzanar, to give perhaps the most well-known example. It took something like half a century for us to apologize to the victims of that bit of racial hysteria; will we do better this time?

  57. 57
    germy says:

    Ocasio-Cortez invited to tour Auschwitz with 93-year-old Holocaust survivor https://t.co/fRWogEEsC6 pic.twitter.com/usBLicfU1V— The Hill (@thehill) June 22, 2019

    *invited by a right-wing PR specialist who's been linked to Trump and Netanyahu and accused in the Jewish press of collaborating with anti-semites in Poland https://t.co/ENqDZqXFfT https://t.co/Zx5NgrldL2— Saladin Ahmed (@saladinahmed) June 22, 2019

  58. 58
    Barbara says:

    The best way to show commitment to those who died would be to stand up in a way few did but many should have to prevent new outrages. Making a contest of suffering is always obscene.

  59. 59
    Ohio Mom says:

    @germy: I saw that. Someone should invite that 93
    year old to one of our camps, except of course they don’t allow visitors.

  60. 60
    SC54HI says:

    Thank you, Adam.

    For a detailed history of the Nazi concentration camps, I recommend reading this work. K.L. stands for Konzentrationslager and the abbreviation was commonly used throughout the records pertaining to the camps. If you read K.L., you will be left with no doubt that the US *is* operating concentration camps.

    For those who are unable to find or read the book, this review from The Guardian several years ago will give you an idea.

  61. 61
    A Ghost To Most says:

    I disagree. If people don’t stand now, “Never Again” means nothing.

    Godwin’s Law is worthless when you are dealing with actual fascists.

  62. 62
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Baud: We’ll have to ask for consensus on your comment before we can proceed.

  63. 63
    germy says:

    @A Ghost To Most: I read that Godwin recently suspended his law when it comes to talking about trumpists. I’m not kidding.

  64. 64
    Kathleen says:

    @Scotian: {{{{{{Scotian}}}}}

  65. 65
    chris says:

    I don’t know where to start with this thread. What comes after *Shit is fucked up and bullshit.* See the numbers, $216,000,000 this year. So far. And so much more.

    NEW at @Sludge: Private prison giant GEO Group gave a $50k "annual contribution" to right-wing, Trump-supporting @TPUSA in 2017. Then comms director @RealCandaceO toured its transitional immigrant detention center in Florida & gave it a four-star rating. https://t.co/BSJXc8jwB4— Alex Kotch 🔥 (@alexkotch) 24 June 2019

  66. 66
    Ruckus says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Yeah, he had the real hot wax process wrong. But as a metaphor it actually wasn’t bad. Creating anything requires a start, a blank sheet if you will. And the concept evolves both in concept and in process. It’s how we create anything, evolution of a concept. Often the concept changes so much that it’s not even the same idea. But it also very often sparks those changes be it art, writing, or production pieces for sale. One of my favorite works my sister did was a line drawing of the statue of liberty that she was using for a basis of a piece. If I recall correctly there are 4 drawings leading to the end result but if you look at #1 then #4 it’s difficult to see the progression. But take them in order and you can see it easily. AB-AB stands out.

  67. 67
    Kathleen says:

    @A Ghost To Most: @Kathleen: Chris Hayes also.

  68. 68
    Melusine says:


    Live reading of mueller report.
    John Lithgow as Trump!

  69. 69
    Kathleen says:

    @germy: Yes he did. It was a Twitter thread in which Chris Hayes tweeted his objection to term “concentration camps”. Godwin replied to him on that thread.
    ETA: Chris got dragged pretty prettily in that thread.

  70. 70
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @germy: The prosecution rests.

  71. 71
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Scotian: We’re keeping good thoughts for you and your wife.

  72. 72
    Immanentize says:

    @Molloy: @Adam L Silverman:
    Just what the ever loving fuck?

    Perhaps most popular this year have been accusations of “Nazism” and “fascism” against federal authorities for their treatment of children separated from their parents at the US border with Mexico. “Remember, other governments put kids in camps,” is a typical rallying cry from some immigration advocates.

    I have never heard this as a rallying cry, but as a statement of History (which she is supposedly protecting) it is QFT.

    Isn’t that Friedman statement just some kind of both siderism? With the added sauce of, my clan owns all political victimization forever so butt out (the ultimate act of selfishness and privilege)? It really ignores all sorts of horrible concentration camps of kids over the years — the second Boer War, Cambodia, child soldiers in African conflicts — and now in Yemen at the Saudi’s lead. I am happy to never talk about Nazis again, if only we can be heard to talk about the reprehensible actions that routinely happen after “governments put kids in camps.”

  73. 73
    TenguPhule says:


    Then comms director @RealCandaceO toured its transitional immigrant detention center in Florida & gave it a four-star rating.

    This is like those film companies rank inflating box office bombs.

    Only the suffering is worse.

  74. 74
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Lee: That was Yad Vashem. The current director is a Neyanyahu crony.

  75. 75
    Immanentize says:

    @Adam L Silverman: We cannot start the consensus process until after an appropriate period of consultation with all stake holders. (Yes, I do work at a University, why do you ask?)

  76. 76
    Jeffro says:

    No need to argue, defend, or waste time here. Draw a line. Commit to using ‘concentration camps’ and don’t back down, ever. Anything and everything that makes these people realize they are going to pay for their crimes helps.

    Btw in terms of actual action: a letter to the editor, op-ed, blog post, FB or Twitter post, are great; a donation to candidates fighting these slime bags is even better. I highly recommend MoveOn’s “50 Ways to Love Your Country” for more direct action options.

  77. 77
    Kay says:

    Peter Baker
    ‏Verified account
    2h2 hours ago
    Trump denies raping Jean Carroll, saying “she’s not my type.”

    Donald Trump thinks men can rape women they’re attracted to. That’s when he would do it. If she were his “type”. She’s not his type, therefore he must not have raped her. This is how he understands rape, as his decision.

    We have a lower standard for the US President than we do for a comedian and a movie producer. They can’t continue their careers after multiple allegations, but the President can.

  78. 78
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Fuck that. Too much ass kissing.

    I wonder about overthinking how we respond to people who find that thinking just slows down the evil. They only understand power.

  79. 79
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Immanentize: It’s something alright.

  80. 80
    Jay says:

    Mr. King, the Republican Party literally stripped you of your Congressional committee assignments because you were too racist even for them.My Jewish constituents have made clear to me that they proudly stand w/ caged children who are starved, denied sleep & sanitation.Bye 👋🏽 https://t.co/TQkaPEESoD— Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (@AOC) June 23, 2019

  81. 81
    TenguPhule says:

    US moves migrant children after reports of poor conditions at Texas facility

    The US government has removed most of the children from a remote border patrol station in Texas, following reports that more than 300 children were detained there, caring for each other with inadequate food, water and sanitation.

    Just 30 children remained at the facility near El Paso Monday, said US representative Veronica Escobar after her office was briefed on the situation by an official with US Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

    Attorneys who visited the border patrol station in Clint, Texas, last week said older children were trying to take care of infants and toddlers. They described a four-year-old with matted hair who had gone without a shower for days and hungry, inconsolable children struggling to soothe one another. Some had been locked for three weeks inside the facility, where 15 children were sick with the flu and another 10 were in medical quarantine.

    “How is it possible that you both were unaware of the inhumane conditions for children, especially tender-age children at the Clint Station?” asked Escobar in a letter to CBP acting commissioner John Sanders and border patrol chief Carla Provost. She asked to be informed by the end of this week what steps they’re taking to end “these humanitarian abuses”.

    Much like the Catholic Church moved priests around to avoid accountability, so too does CBP move the prisoners around to avoid getting caught.

    Although it was unclear where all the children held at Clint had been moved, Escobar said some were sent to another facility on the north side of El Paso called Border Patrol Station 1. Escobar said it’s a temporary site with roll-out mattresses, showers, medical facilities and air conditioning.

    “Temporary sites”.


  82. 82

    @Ruckus: Yeah, I thought it was an interesting insight into creative work.

  83. 83
    germy says:


    Trump denies raping Jean Carroll, saying “she’s not my type.”

    The photo on the left is Jean “not his type” Caroll in 1995. The photo on the right is Trump with the woman he was married to in 1995. https://t.co/9Dr8hb9wq4 pic.twitter.com/4jx686GLaf— Julian Sanchez (@normative) June 24, 2019

  84. 84
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Lee: The AIPAC people on the museum’s board. They are scum.

  85. 85
    germy says:


    Donald Trump thinks men can rape women they’re attracted to. That’s when he would do it. If she were his “type”. She’s not his type, therefore he must not have raped her. This is how he understands rape, as his decision.

    “I don’t have to rape anybody! I can pay for it!”

  86. 86
    Immanentize says:

    Also, can I please get a list of words or phrases that mean I am anti-Semitic? I now understand that saying “concentration camp” is disrespectful to the Jewish victims of the Nazis. I will never talk about Soviet concentration camps because they have their own word: Gulag. Or any of the other forced separation camps throughout history and the world — especially those for children — that I could even recently call “concentration camps.” I get it. But can I say “Ghetto?” Or is that now a word that can only be associated with the suffering of the Jews in Warsaw? Are pre-WWII Jewish Ghettos not allowed to be called Ghettos anymore? And what about Elvis? And I know that “apartheid” is off the table as to the political, geographic and security laws of Israel. So there are some words I now understand. Please, friends, help me identify other words that may never be used again lest it offend Christians who will tell me I am being ant-Semitic.

  87. 87
    Kay says:


    Every single one of the women is lying and the compulsive liar president is telling the truth. He never tells the truth, but in this one area he does.

    That, or we have a rapist in the White House.

  88. 88
    Jay says:


    Fuck their feelings.

  89. 89
    A Ghost To Most says:

    @germy: His type is alive and captive. I’m not convinced about alive

  90. 90
    rikyrah says:

    Thanks for this post, Silverman.
    They are killing people, everyday.😪😪😪

  91. 91
    Steeplejack says:


    Sending healing energy. 💎

  92. 92
    Jeffro says:

    @Kay: What are the odds, right? When something like 1 out of 3 (ok 1 out of 5?) women report being sexually assaulted…this guy has been falsely accused 22 times???

    And really, to be accurate, it’s a SERIAL sexual assaulter /rapist in the White House.

  93. 93
    Immanentize says:

    @Jay: I actually considered sending that T shirt to Chuck Todd.

  94. 94
    Kay says:


    I mean, why hold anyone to the standard? If it doesn’t matter it doesn’t matter and Bill Cosby and Weinstein should be out still working. We have a special lower standard for the President. That’s the situation. Surely it can’t just be applied to entertainers- that’s ludicrous. So, we have no standard.

  95. 95
    debbie says:


    Those pesky facts again!

  96. 96
    Jay says:

    Further, the private sector actors fundamental to ICE and CBP operations rely on debt-financing from large financial institutions. Geo Group and CoreCivic which are structured as Real Estate Investment Trusts, are particularly vulnerable to credit loss. This has enabled recent campaigns to yield key victories. In March 2019, JPMorgan Chase committed to halt further financing to the private prison industry following long-term organizing efforts. In the immediate aftermath, Geo Group and CoreCivic stocks plummeted and Geo Group warned its investors that mounting pressure “could have a material adverse effect on our business.” After Chase’s announcement Wells Fargo began partially divesting, while U.S. Bank reduced credit to an “immaterial amount.” Bank of America, SunTrust and PNC Bank continue to bankroll the migrant detention industry and are some of its largest funders. Divestment from these remaining large banks could jeopardize the economic viability of corporations like Geo Group or CoreCivic


  97. 97
    Jeffro says:

    @Kay: @germy: Normally I argue against the Ill Douche’s framing but let’s go with it and encourage our both-sides media to do the same:

    “What exactly IS your type of woman to assault, trumpov?”

    “Ivana Trump also…briefly…claimed you raped her, Donnie…she and Ms. Carroll appear to be very similar…so…are you lying or is your first wife not your type?”

    “What would you say if someone attacked Ivanka this way and then claimed he OBVIOUSLY didn’t do it, because ‘she isn’t my type’? “

  98. 98
  99. 99
    Kay says:


    The NYTimes defense of burying the story is “but we covered me too!”. But me too is a joke if the President of the United States is excepted. It doesn’t mean anything. It means certain (expendable) entertainers may not work and will be held accountable. Truly important and powerful people? Doesn’t apply to them.

  100. 100
    BobS says:

    @A Ghost To Most: “Never Again” doesn’t seem to be working- Indonesia, Chile, Argentina, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Central America, East Timor, Rwanda, Darfur, Gaza. I’m sure I missed one or two “Never Again(s)”.

  101. 101
    Jeffro says:

    @Kay: That’s an excellent point. Why does trumpov get a pass for rape when we must pause and bash Biden for ‘touching’, get Franken to resign for ‘groping’, send Cosby to jail for drugged rapes? He’s just that special?

    One of the Dem candidates will (ok, may) put it more artfully than this, but: don’t even racists deserve a non-rapist president? Aren’t even the neo-Nazis like, “yeah, we’d really rather he not have this decades-long history of sexual assault”? Don’t they have sisters and mothers?

    Hit ‘em in the nose with it, Dems

  102. 102
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    The first use of concentration camp was used by the British against Boer Civilians in the Boer War to punish Boer farmers, also the Spanish used similar methods against Cubans.

  103. 103
    Kay says:

    Can I just say how disgusting it is that no one in the Trump Administration will take responsibility for this?

    They did this. Obviously. I mean, someone did this. The children didn’t put themselves in there. Yet not one of them will accept responsibility for it. They are all lying and dodging and excuse making, and these children are THERE and the Trump people PUT them there.

    They can’t even do that much. They can’t even find one adult out of the thousands of low quality hires who will admit “yeah, that’s mine. That’s my job”.

  104. 104
    zhena gogolia says:


    This is what had me screaming about their 10 days in a row of front-page Weinstein stories.

    Weinstein isn’t the President of the United States! Why does he get full-page front-page stories while you let Trump skate?

  105. 105
    BobS says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: Don’t shortchange the United States- reservations predated the Civil War.

  106. 106
    zhena gogolia says:


    According to Pence when questioned by Jake Tapper, it’s all the Democrats’ fault.

  107. 107
    plato says:

    @Kay: Of course, the asskisser peter baker will faithfully ‘report’ it without pushing back. They are all horrible thugs.

  108. 108
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: It’s not just the Times

    Janet Johnson @ JJohnsonLaw
    Joe Biden touching a woman on the shoulder got more coverage then a credible rape accusation against the president.

    Brian Klaas @ brianklaas
    Sunday shows: 3/31/19: ABC asked 3 guests about the Biden allegations; NBC asked 6 guests about it; CBS asked 2 guests. All three hosts suggested the allegations might be “disqualifying.”

    This Sunday: the new Trump rape allegations weren’t mentioned on any of the 3 Sunday shows.

  109. 109
    plato says:

    @Jeffro: My ‘gotcha question’ would be, ‘so, you do admit that you rape women?’.

  110. 110
    Aleta says:

    @Scotian: Please ignore if not useful …. After some versions of the same, I came to believe a mediator is the healthiest way to go. That stuff can be unimaginably destructive, and in some families losing a parent lets loose unexpected and irrational actions. Just out of control, no matter what you do.
    IMO Anything that keeps you and your wife away from stress or shields you from pain, is the priority.

  111. 111
    JR says:

    @Mnemosyne: 17 million at least in the Holocaust but the Nazis shouldn’t get let off for “regular” wartime deaths either.

  112. 112
    Kay says:


    Brian Klaas

    9h9 hours ago
    Sunday shows: 3/31/19: ABC asked 3 guests about the Biden allegations; NBC asked 6 guests about it; CBS asked 2 guests. All three hosts suggested the allegations might be “disqualifying.”
    This Sunday: the new Trump rape allegations weren’t mentioned on any of the 3 Sunday shows.

    There you go. Joe Biden touching someone on the shoulder might be “disqualifying”, Donald Trump raping someone isn’t even mentioned.

    It’s insane.

  113. 113
    Kay says:


    They’re saying the Trump allegations won’t “change peoples minds”- therefore, not important.

    I don’t remember that being a requirement for any of the other men- that peoples minds be changed.

    That must be brand new.

  114. 114
    Aleta says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That people in power could be rapists … could destroy their world.

  115. 115

    @zhena gogolia: Don’t forget…………Weinstein assaulted movie stars.
    Movie. Stars.
    Who did Trump go after? Buncha nobodies. Get back to us when some A-Listers turn up.

  116. 116
    Aleta says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: And perhaps attorneys have already responded to requests for comment on the story by threatening them.

  117. 117
    JR says:

    As for our present day concentration camps, I think Nauru is a pertinent example. We haven’t heard the worst yet.

  118. 118
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @John Revolta: Who did Trump go after? Buncha nobodies.

    and the mother of his largest, and probably most damaged, children.

  119. 119
    Mnemosyne says:


    I do think that there is a moral difference between bombing cities and murdering people one-by-one in assembly-line fashion. YMMV.

  120. 120
    Ruckus says:

    That’s the understatement of at least the week, losing a parent lets loose irrational actions/words. At least in my case it wasn’t unexpected from one party. And yes it can get rather difficult to just handle the things that have to be done. In my case we had clearcut directions from the parents. Cut back on the irrationality maybe 15%.

  121. 121
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Adam up top: “Living arrangements were primitive, the food and clothing inadequate”

    I have a copy of one of the last letters my grandfather sent from the Gulag. Among the things he asked his wife to send him was a new belt.

    Why do you think that might be?

    She never saw him again.

    They were not death camps.

  122. 122

    You can’t rape your own wife, silly- Trump’s own lawyer said so!

  123. 123

    @John Revolta:

    It should not be a question of who trump assaulted. it’s the fact that he assaulted women constantly over what is clearly DECADES of assault after assault.

    The horrifying thing about rape and sexual assault is that the rapist never stops at one. He (almost always a male) will keep assaulting victims until stopped. And he doesn’t stop because the victims are terrified of the public scrutiny and humiliation. It’s why it takes years for victims to step forward, and by then there’s dozens.

    Considering trump’s bullying and angry behavior towards everyone he views as a lesser (which includes every woman he finds attractive), the current number of 20 credible victims is too low. the sonofabitch is bound to be in triple digits after 40 years of being a sexist pussygrabbing monster.

  124. 124
    plato says:

    @John Revolta: @John Revolta:

    Your attempted snark here is trivializing what this horrible rapist thug did to women.

  125. 125
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Sam Stein @ samstein
    Among the answers Trump could have given to the Jean Carroll accusations are, “are you kidding? I would never do that.” Or “rape is abhorrent. I’m disgusted someone could think I’d do such a thing. Let alone accuse me of it.”

    Instead he went with, “she’s not my type”

  126. 126
    Aleta says:

    It took years before most of the media would print accusations against Cosby. Until then the stories were ignored. Like Trump, Cosby and Weinstein had friends in the media and ones with political influence.

    It’s very important that they apply as much pressure as they can early on, to raise doubt and use connections so the first stories will be ignored and buried. Because then the perception that it went nowhere, and that someone who talks may be harmed, convinces other women to stay quiet. Also see how they handled Anita Hill. (There were other women in addition to her.)

    It seems to take a lot more than three years if they have political influence and friends in the media.

  127. 127
    JR says:

    @Mnemosyne: There are differences but where do you draw the line? The Einsatzgruppen? And plenty of “battle” atrocities occur long after the hostilities end.

  128. 128
    Aleta says:

    @Ruckus: I expected and prepared for trouble, but the worst things came out of left field.

  129. 129
    Aleta says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: That’s a familiar defense though. And I believe he’s used it before, in a slightly different way.

  130. 130
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Aleta: Yeah, I’m pretty sure he said that about at least one of the women accusing him of assault, he doesn’t find her attractive

    Summer Zervos, maybe?

  131. 131
    Mnemosyne says:


    I draw the line at deliberately killing civilians by design. The Einsatzgruppen are absolutely considered the first wave of the Holocaust — the only reason the Nazis stopped using them was that roving death squads were more expensive than camps and gas chambers.

  132. 132
    Ahasuerus says:

    @Lee: Here is the key to that particular missing link

  133. 133
    plato says:

    My father fled the Nazis & relatives died in the camps. I’m angry & ashamed @AJCongress that you choose to spend your time & resources attacking @AOC, who is trying to end cruelty to children, instead of working to get this Administration to end this inhumane treatment. https://t.co/7oasqRz3jq— Mimi Rocah (@Mimirocah1) June 24, 2019

    Here to express my great sadness with the @AJCongress. Please take me off your solicitation lists. I could never support an organization that is devoting energy condemning the heartfelt words of congresswoman @AOC who is working to end cruelty and child abuse at the border.— Jennifer Taub (@jentaub) June 24, 2019

    wtf is american jewish congress?

  134. 134
    plato says:

    moderation please?

  135. 135
    rikyrah says:

    Sending you positive thoughts🙏

  136. 136
    Ohio Mom says:

    @JR: There is a difference between war and genocide. Not that war isn’t without its own atrocities, and not that too many wars rate the title but there can be just and necessary wars. There are no just or necessary genocides.

    On another note (not in response to your comment), just because some people mischaracterize things that aren’t antisemitic as antisemitic to score political points or defend the indefensible doesn’t mean that there isn’t real antisemitism in our country, even if most American Jews enjoy relatively comfortable lives. Most of it is just stupid verbiage but not all of it.

  137. 137

    @PaulWartenberg: I agree, it shouldn’t be about who. But I do believe that the only reason Weinstein got all the attention he got was because the fucking media decided that the story would grab eyeballs on account of who.
    @plato: Attempted snark, now what is that? I mean, do they give a Nobel prize for attempted chemistry?
    Seriously, I’m even starting to get too angry for my own self. I’m gonna go play with the dog for awhile.

  138. 138
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Mr Stagger Lee: The Bosque Redondo also fits the definition.

  139. 139
    Molloy says:

    @Adam L Silverman: @Immanentize: @A Ghost To Most: @Mnemosyne:

    I take a backseat to no one in terms of my outrage over Trump being President. Because we already have the moral high ground concerning this issue, I don’t think it’s necessary to invoke the phrase concentration camp. By doing so, we simply get bogged down in unproductive arguments.

  140. 140
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Tracking.

  141. 141
    Jackie says:

    @Molloy: What is your acceptable/PC terminology?

  142. 142
    Jay says:


    During World War II, the German combined armed forces (Heer, Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe) committed systematic war crimes, including massacres, rape, looting, the exploitation of forced labor, the murder of three million Soviet prisoners of war, and participated in the extermination of Jews. While the Nazi Party’s own SS forces (in particular the SS-Totenkopfverbände, Einsatzgruppen and Waffen-SS) of Nazi Germany was the organization most responsible for the genocidal killing of the Holocaust, the regular armed forces represented by the Wehrmacht committed war crimes of their own, particularly on the Eastern Front in the war against the Soviet Union.


  143. 143
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @plato: It was a leftist Jewish advocacy organization founded to balance out an organized communal voice for American Jews in the early 20th century. At the time, the American Jewish Committee, which was run and controlled by a small amount of elite, wealthy and politically conservative Jewish Americans. Brandies was among its founders.

  144. 144
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @plato: You’re free. Sorry for the delay. I was watching a cartoon.

  145. 145
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Molloy: I’m happy for you.

  146. 146
    plato says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Thanks Adam. I thought two links are allowed. I will be more careful.

  147. 147
    plato says:

    @Adam L Silverman: Politically conservative Jewish Americans posing as leftist Jewish advocacy organization? Aka astroturfing?

  148. 148
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @plato: There’s no rhyme or reason to what is or isn’t allowed.

  149. 149
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @plato: No, I think what’s happened is the donor base has changed. My guess is they’re reliant on some of the better known Jewish elites and notables like Adelson for funding. And I’m sure someone got a call about donations.

  150. 150
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @A Ghost To Most: Not quite. Raw Story’s headline is bad and their summary of the CNN article is as well.

    Here’s the link to the actual CNN reporting, which Raw Story couldn’t be bothered to actually link to.

  151. 151
    dimmsdale says:

    @Kay: Yeah, this goes right to the issue of the most under-covered, relatively unknown bunch of people currently polluting our national discourse: news producers and show bookers. Who the hell do they answer to? Who sets their agendas and determines the slants they use to tell us what’s “news”?

    I would love to see some enterprising journalist do a deep-dive look at these people, with interviews. What on earth kind of country do they think they’re living in, anyway? And what kind of “contribution” to the public good do they think they’re making? (Note to those who do not date from the Punic Wars, as I do: once upon a time, news was considered a public service, not a profit-making bamboozle-the-rubes-for-a-buck “infotainment” operation. I truly miss those days.)

  152. 152
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @dimmsdale: It’s fully a profit making operation now. You’ll never see another NBC White Paper again.

    Which is why it should be destroyed.

  153. 153
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @dimmsdale: @Villago Delenda Est:

    What on earth kind of country do they think they’re living in, anyway?

    The same country that the Democrats think they’re contesting the 2020 elections in. An American that doesn’t exist.

  154. 154
    Mnemosyne says:


    The camps where Japanese Americans were sent were called “concentration camps.” The name was only changed after the war and the news about the Holocaust became widespread.

    But Japanese Americans were kept in halfway reasonable conditions. Families were kept together. They were given adequate food, shelter, and clothing. They were allowed to have schools for their children.

    That’s not what’s going on at the border right now. Children are being starved, made to sleep on the floor, and have been forced to try to care for one another because they have been torn from their parents. Disease is running rampant. Only a handful of deaths have been reported though more seem to have occurred, and the entire situation is so secret that we don’t even know how many children are being held like this or for how long.

    That sounds a whole lot like a concentration camp to me.

  155. 155


    But Japanese Americans were kept in halfway reasonable conditions. Families were kept together. They were given adequate food, shelter, and clothing. They were allowed to have schools for their children.

    Ever been to Manzanar?

  156. 156
    Waynski says:

    @BobS: The Balkans and Kurdistan come to mind.

Comments are closed.