Election 2020 Open Thread: There’s Worse Fates Than Being ‘the Consensus Candidate’

Even if it is Politico announcing it — “Warren emerges as potential compromise nominee”:

With 99 town halls and 30,000 selfies under her belt, Warren has offered a level of access that has disarmed some critics. She’s also made a point of traveling to some of the reddest of red-state locales — Mississippi, Utah and West Virginia, among them…

Polling suggests that at least one of Warren’s lightning-rod proposals — taxing the net worth of the wealthiest Americans — has support that extends beyond progressive circles. According to a recent Morning Consult survey, 61 percent of all voters favored her 2 percent wealth tax on households worth at least $50 million. Among Democrats, 74 percent favored the plan…

Ezra Klein, at Vox, had an excellent interview before the current ‘surge’ on “Elizabeth Warren’s plan to pass her plans” — I’d read this if nothing else:

Ezra Klein: How different would it be for Democrats — or in this case for you — to run against Donald Trump in 2020 after he has passed all this agenda, the Republican agenda, versus in 2016, when he was claimed to be a populist running to reform the Republican Party. In polls, people thought Donald Trump was quite moderate in 2016. It seems running actually having a record now is going to snap what he is into place in a way that makes his reelection campaign very different.

Elizabeth Warren: He’s now got a record. Over and over, you can say he gave away a trillion-and-a-half dollars that just all went to the rich guys. The tariffs are killing you. It’s the ability now to come back and just say here are the facts. Here’s what happens and just hold him to it.

Now I don’t want to kid myself about it. He is a master at distraction and will want to talk about something else. I think part of this will be talking about what he’s done, but I think the much more central part will be, as Democrats, are we just going to be not-Trump? In which case, we ignore the fact something was broken in this country to elect a guy like Trump. Or are we going to be the party that says we get what’s wrong, we have a plan to fix it, and we’re going to build a grassroots movement to make that happen?…

Cole linked to Dahlia Lithwick’s Slate article when it first appeared, but it’s worth highlighting:

… [T]he women who come to these early Warren rallies like being addressed by an adult as adults. At a time when America has devalued teachers, empathy, expertise, and planning for the future, Elizabeth Warren serves as one reminder of what we have lost. It doesn’t mean the voters will necessarily throng to her side. It just means that the women I spoke to, and more and more of the women I know, don’t mind being educated about how everything went so terribly wrong in their political lifetimes. Elizabeth Warren can explain it, and has a plan for it, and believes she can fix it. It’s not glittery, and it may not make your heart beat faster in a stadium. But in a world of noise and bluster, her clarity has its own sort of charm.

Even Emily Bazelon, at the NYTimes, explains that while she might be a lady-professor who lives in the prototypical tenured-Harvard-faculty home with the prototypical campaign-photo-friendly dog, nonetheless “Elizabeth Warren Is Completely Serious”:

For her entire career, Warren’s singular focus has been the growing fragility of America’s middle class. She made the unusual choice as a law professor to concentrate relentlessly on data, and the data that alarms her shows corporate profits creeping up over the last 40 years while employees’ share of the pie shrinks. This shift occurred, Warren argues, because in the 1980s, politicians began reworking the rules for the market to the specifications of corporations that effectively owned the politicians. In Warren’s view of history, “The constant tension in a democracy is that those with money will try to capture the government to turn it to their own purposes.” Over the last four decades, people with money have been winning, in a million ways, many cleverly hidden from view. That’s why economists have estimated that the wealthiest top 0.1 percent of Americans now own nearly as much as the bottom 90 percent.

As a presidential candidate, Warren has rolled out proposal after proposal to rewrite the rules again, this time on behalf of a majority of American families. On the trail, she says “I have a plan for that” so often that it has turned into a T-shirt slogan. Warren has plans (about 20 so far, detailed and multipart) for making housing and child care affordable, forgiving college-loan debt, tackling the opioid crisis, protecting public lands, manufacturing green products, cracking down on lobbying in Washington and giving workers a voice in selecting corporate board members. Her grand overarching ambition is to end America’s second Gilded Age…

… Warren has been a politician for only seven years, since she announced her run for the Senate in 2011 at age 62. She’s still thinking through how she communicates her ideas with voters. “The only thing that worries me is I won’t describe it in a way that — ” she trailed off. “It’s like teaching class. ‘Is everybody in here getting this?’ And that’s what I just struggle with all the time. How do I get better at this? How do I do more of this in a way that lets people see it, hear it and say, ‘Oh, yeah.’”…

Ta-Nehisi Coates, author of the influential 2014 Atlantic article “The Case for Reparations,” said in a recent interview with The New Yorker that Warren was the candidate whose commitment seemed real because she had asked him to talk with her about his article when it came out years ago. “She was deeply serious,” Coates said.

Warren is often serious and doesn’t hesitate to convey her moral outrage. “I’ll own it,” she told me about her anger. She talked about women expressing to her their distress about sexual harassment and assault. “Well, yeah,” Warren said. “No kidding that a woman might be angry about that. Women have a right to be angry about being treated badly.”…

Warren may also confront a double bind for professional women: To command respect, they have to prove that they’re experts, but once they do, they’re often seen as less likable. At one point, I asked Warren whether there was anything good about running for president as a woman. “It is what it is,” she said…

Meanwhile, from the Not-Actually-A-Democrat Candidate in the Democratic primaries, per Bess Levin at Vanity Fair:

Appearing on CNN on Wednesday night, Sanders was asked by Chris Cuomo, “What do you think the reason is that Elizabeth Warren is catching up to you in polls? Do you believe that people see her as the more electable version of Bernie Sanders?” To which the lawmaker from Vermont responded, “Well, I think we are running against a lot of problems.” He then proceeded to describe said problems. “I think that there are a certain number of people who would like to see a woman elected, and I understand that,” Sanders said. “There are people who would like to see somebody who is younger, and I understand that also. There are a lot of factors out there.”

Sanders has previously said that he doesn’t like the idea of voters picking a candidate solely based on their race or gender, telling supporters in Boston in November 2016, “It’s not good enough for somebody to say, ‘Hey, I’m a Latina, vote for me.’ That is not good enough.… It is not good enough for somebody to say, ‘I’m a woman, vote for me.’ No, that is not good enough.” He then added: “What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industries,” which, incidentally, is exactly what Warren has done, and may be the reason some people want her to be president, rather than the mere fact that she’s a woman…

233 replies
  1. 1
    Quinerly says:

    Dr. John’s memorial is being livestream broadcast at WWOZ. 1 to 3 NOLA (Central) time. Just started and it is pretty great. You can get it on the Tune In Radio app. There’ll be performances.
    Rainy day here. My plans changed to this.

  2. 2
    Redshift says:

    Okay, the tweet is funny, but I gotta say, I take window seats on planes because I like looking at stuff out the window. No shame in that.

    (Obligatory Wilmer snark: he already knows he’s right about everything, why would he have to read?)

  3. 3
    Bex says:

    Happy first wedding anniversary to Pete and Chasten!

  4. 4
    Brachiator says:

    It’s not glittery, and it may not make your heart beat faster in a stadium. But in a world of noise and bluster, her clarity has its own sort of charm.

    This is some of the “she may be full, but she is going to work hard for you” stuff that used to be attached to Hillary Clinton. A little charisma and inspiration works, too.

  5. 5
    guachi says:

    Since this is a new thread *and* an election thread I’ll put my request here:

    Pete Buttigieg has Town Hall in North Augusta, SC today at 5 pm. I live across the river in Augusta, GA and I’ll be attending.

    What question should I ask him?

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    Warren emerges as potential compromise nominee”

    Who’s compromising with whom here?

  7. 7
    JPL says:

    @guachi: Ask him why he waited before calling the family of the person who was shot?

  8. 8
    germy says:

    @guachi: Ask him what his favorite comfort food is. Oh, wait, the media already did that.

    Actually, any question you come up with is probably smarter than anything the media professionals would ask.

  9. 9
    germy says:

    @JPL: From what I understand, it was their request. He waited until they signaled they were ready to meet with him.

    I remember reading that somewhere, but I could be misinformed.

  10. 10
    Baud says:

    “I think that there are a certain number of people who would like to see a woman elected, and I understand that,” Sanders said. “There are people who would like to see somebody who is younger, and I understand that also. 

    “And then there are some people who want to elect a Democrat. I don’t understand that.”

  11. 11
    Nelle says:

    Ask him what practical actions can ordinary citizens take in the face of ICE deportations? I want ideas from leaders of how we, as citizens can act, rather then be stuck in paralysis. No more “I can do it” but I want all of us motivated and active. Is he in that camp? If so, how does he see it happening?

  12. 12
    FelonyGovt says:

    I didn’t know a lot about Elizabeth Warren before the California Democratic Convention, but she impressed the hell out of me (and much of the audience) when she spoke there. She is an impassioned and thoughtful speaker, not a hectoring “schoolmarm” type as had been insinuated. I like Kamala Harris a lot but I would be thrilled with Elizabeth Warren as President.

  13. 13

    @Baud: Or someone who has worked out concrete ways to achieve goals. I understand that.

  14. 14
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Baud: COTD

  15. 15
    Another Scott says:

    @guachi: Others have suggested good questions about the concentration camps, etc. Maybe something a little more mundane, but something that the President has direct control over – What are his views on the proposed OPM / GSA merger? Does he think the President should have more direct control over the Civil Service, or does he think that it is vitally important for civil servants to be professionals and protected from political interference?

    Have a good time! Let us know how it goes.


  16. 16
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    The visual of him staring off into the clouds and her reading is pretty perfect.


    He’s looking out the window, for millions and millions of young people, or just one, who can tell him how to get the airplane internets on his big-numbered flip phone.

    He apparently brought Cornel West on stage with him today, who campaigned for Jill Stein after Bernie blackmailed the Clinton campaign into putting him on the platform committee. Can no one tell that bitter old crank we all know the story about the Obama inauguration?

  17. 17
    trollhattan says:

    Oh joy.

    US President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner has unveiled the first section of the US Middle East peace plan.

    Focusing on economics, it envisages more than half of a $50bn (£39bn) fund being spent in the Palestinian territories over 10 years.

    The plan will be presented at a conference in Bahrain next week, but the Palestinian Authority has said it will boycott the event, having refused to engage with Mr Trump since the US recognised Jerusalem in 2017.

    How many settlements does $50B build?

  18. 18
    germy says:

    “I have not used that word,” says 2020 Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, asked about Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez referring to housing for migrants at the border as "concentration camps." https://t.co/VGwaOh1z73 pic.twitter.com/6tiEV0XiDO— CNN (@CNN) June 19, 2019

  19. 19
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @FelonyGovt: She is an impassioned and thoughtful speaker, not a hectoring “schoolmarm” type as had been insinuated.

    I think she’s a terrific retail candidate, but I have a very bad track record when it comes to seeing what the lumpenmittel see in politicians. Al Gore is my second favorite candidate of my voting life, and I supported Bubba but often found him cloying and smarmy. And don’t get me started on having a beer with the aging frat boy from Walker’s Point.

  20. 20

    @trollhattan: Or maybe a hotel and gold course.

  21. 21
    Another Scott says:

    @trollhattan: $2.5B/yr for Palestine is nothing. The new MGM casino built just outside the DC Beltway cost about $1.8B, IIRC.



  22. 22
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    I recently found this Glaswegian Woman’s response to the Greenpeace protester being assaulted by a Tory Minister and think it is perfect. It expresses sexism perfectly. (Warning really NSFW)


  23. 23
    Another Scott says:

    In other news, Rep. Don Beyer:

    Rep. Don Beyer Verified account @RepDonBeyer

    Rep. Don Beyer Retweeted Laura McGann

    Trump made an outright threat of retaliation against a woman who accused him of rape.

    We are used to his awful behavior, but this is a moment that must not just go by. This is one of the worst things he has done. He is brazenly trying to stop women from coming forward.

    Rep. Don Beyer added,

    Laura McGann Verified account @lkmcgann

    “People should pay dearly for such false accusations” is a threat to Carroll and to any other woman who might have a story to tell about Trump. https://twitter.com/abbydphillip/status/1142180141545775104

    9:31 AM – 22 Jun 2019

    The list of impeachment charges just keeps getting longer…



  24. 24
    Dan B says:

    @guachi: Buttegieg is being portrayed as a Wall Street candidate, along with Harris (?!). It would be great to ear what he thinks about the power of corporations and the declining power of unions. Does he believe some “balance” should be restored, is a valuable goal, and how would we get there – assuming he believes things are out of whack.

    Simpler question: What is the future if corporations, especially multinationals, in America?

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He apparently brought Cornel West on stage with him today, 

    Is there a real group of voters that’s impressed by Cornell West?

  26. 26
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    And don’t get me started on having a beer with the aging frat boy from Walker’s Point.

    I know people get get upset by gentrification, but that seems a bit harsh and personal. Hey, that’s where my mind went.

  27. 27
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:


    Josh Jamerson @ joshjame
    Sanding behind BernieSanders during his SC Dem convention speech: Nina Turner, Ro Khanna, Cornel West, and Danny Glover.

    Ro Khanna just dropped like a rock in my estimation. Not that he gives a fuck since I’m not even sure where his district is…

  28. 28
    Gozer says:


    Real fuckin’ profile in courage there. His assholishness never fails to present itself and I don’t know how he thinks he’s going to appeal to PoC by talking out of both sides of his ass like that. It’s like…mofo…we see what you’re doing. Meh…

    In summary, Wilmer can shut the fuck up and take all the seats.

  29. 29
    germy says:

    Biden: I'll work with anyone. I've worked with the vilest scum of the Earth, segregationist bigots who fought to make sure their kids didn't go to school with black children.

    Reporter: What did you work with them on?

    Biden: Stopping school desegregation, duh. pic.twitter.com/xhnFs5Y4Yh

    — #IStandWithIlhan🇺🇸 (@IStandWithIlhan) June 22, 2019

  30. 30
    Gozer says:

    @Baud: Washed up, “revolutionaries” that know few or no Black folks.

  31. 31
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Ro is his co-campaign manager, I believe. He’s from California, so I think he’s got a bunch of rich white tech dudes to worry about.

  32. 32
    Mnemosyne says:

    There is a concept in the animation world of “plussing.” As in, learning the mechanical skill of animation is relatively easy for artists, so when you’re hiring, you need to find the people who can “plus” that skill and bring more than just the basics.

    It used to be that the automatic “plus” when comparing similar job candidates was being a white man. Now a lot of people see that “plus” as being a woman or being nonwhite or being LGBTQ or a combination of those. When you have two comparable candidates with similar platforms in Warren and Sanders, a lot of people are going to see Warren being a woman as the “plus” that differentiates her from Sanders.

    That’s why the Bros are so desperate to denounce Warren as just another corporate tool. If people see Sanders and Warren as espousing virtually the same platform, then Sanders loses, because being a white dude is no longer the automatic “plus” it once was.

  33. 33
    plato says:

    jared fucking kushner’s ‘ME peace plan’ = How much we can swindle & siphon off from this ‘aid package’.

  34. 34
    Dan B says:

    @Dan B: Or you could ask how tech corporations should be regulated. But that’s a leading question.

    Besides multinational corporate power the way tech / social media has been used by Russia, and probably the Chinese and others, to subvert US democracy is not being addressed with any proposals equal to the problem.

  35. 35
    oldgold says:

    My bet is after N.H., Kamala does very well in Nevada (February 22 and South Carolina (February 28). This then gives big MO for Super Tuesday (March 3) where she should do well, particularly in California, with a whopping 416 delegates, and in the southern states.

  36. 36


    Is there a real group of voters that’s impressed by Cornell West?

    Cornell West.

  37. 37
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: any relation to the Bush Walkers? It’s interesting history to think of Milwaukee as part the fur trade, but of course it would’ve been. Probably prime beaver territory.

  38. 38
    plato says:

    The President of the United States is a ra_ist.

    Two different letters correctly fill in that blank.

    Although, of course, neither should.

    — God (@TheTweetOfGod) June 22, 2019

  39. 39
    Baud says:


    Ask him what the focus of his foreign policy would be.

  40. 40
    Melusine says:

    Very happy to see Warren moving up in the polls. Would be glad to vote for her or Harris. It’s about damn time a woman had a chance to screw things up as effectively as men have. Maybe even less. 😉

    OT: The Carroll thread is dead but I wanted to say, while I understand the cries of “test the dress!”, the presumed rape VICTIM should not be hounded, guilted, or in any way pressured to have the dress tested or to file charges. It’s taken her 23 years to be able to speak publicly about the assault, about her history of sexual assaults, and it’s painfully clear from her interview with O’Donnell and the article itself that she still seems to only feel safe talking about them from the safe distance of a comedy-style bit. Despite what she said on the show, she still seems to carry guilt for “putting herself” in those situations (except the one when she was 12), and like every victim she knows damn well what she’d go through in court, and in the court of public opinion, if she were to actually press charges. She knows the kinds of harassment and death threats she’s in for now. If she went to trial it would be a million times worse. Just ask the 14-yr old victim who dropped her case before the election because the death threats were so bad.

    Carroll must have considered it, because she describes in the article where the cameras likely would have picked them up, and that the store doesn’t have the footage from that long ago. She’s had long time to think about how much she could tell, when she felt safe enough to tell it, and how. It is a life-long process for some victims, who never feel safe enough.

    If she feels safe telling her story in the context of a list of “Hideous Men I Have Known”, then that’s as far as she needs to go. She doesn’t owe it to anyone to put on a cape and become the Victim Crusader. We all saw what happened to Anita Hill, to Dr. Ford and to countless other women.

    Victims of sexual assault are NOT responsible for putting their rapists behind bars, not in a world where they are demonized and villified by the system that’s supposed to protect them. Trump’s father is responsible for not teaching him that rape is wrong. Trump is responsible for choosing to assault her. Our justice system is responsible for making it damn near impossible for victims to feel safe in coming forward. Neighbors, friends, and relatives are responsible for filling girls’ heads with talk about, “Did you see how she was dressed?”, “What was she expecting going to (x) with a man?” – ensuring that when those girls are assaulted, they’ll keep their mouths shut. Every person who voted for a man with multiple accusations of sexual assault against him, who bragged about assaulting women, and repeatedly sexualized his own daughter, is responsible for sending the message, loud and clear – Don’t even think about coming forward, ’cause we don’t give a shit.

    There are millions of people in this country who bear some of the responsibility for people like her being in the situation that she’s in. So whatever the fuck she needs to do to get some peace and get through the day is fine by me, and no one has the right to demand more of her, or any other victim.

  41. 41
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Donald J. Trump @ realDonaldTrump
    At the request of Democrats, I have delayed the Illegal Immigration Removal Process (Deportation) for two weeks to see if the Democrats and Republicans can get together and work out a solution to the Asylum and Loophole problems at the Southern Border. If not, Deportations start!

    I’d like to think that panicked R’s are ringing Kellyanne’s phone off the hook about angry constituents calling about the national disgrace of his/their camps, but I haven’t seen any stories to that effect.


    Mair @ LizMair
    Oh look, someone got a fresh round of polling and it looked like dog shit. Also, there’s always been a solution: Codify DACA, stop the cutting of legal immigration shit, get some wall money. Done.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Not that I’m complaining, but in the same vein.

    Trump dials back rhetoric on Iran, says he wants to make a deal


  43. 43
    BR says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Khanna has been an opportunist from day one. He was a two time carpetbagger targeting Mike Honda who was a really solid Dem in Silicon Valley. His first interview after election was with Breitbart. I really don’t trust him and am glad I’m not in his district.

  44. 44
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Baud: in the end, what he wants is to get his picture took, claiming he did something Obama couldn’t. It’d be interesting to watch BiBi’s freak out if trump started talking about a summit with the Iranians

  45. 45
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m curious if there’s an element of young Jared’s “peace plan” that BiBi will hate.

  46. 46
    trollhattan says:

    Love it! I could practice saying “shytebag” the rest of my life and not deliver it so well.

  47. 47
    Baud says:

    President Trump approved an offensive cyber strike that disabled Iranian computer systems used to control rocket and missile launches, even as he backed away from a conventional military attack in response to its shoot-down Thursday of an unmanned U.S. surveillance drone, according to people familiar with the matter.


  48. 48
    Melusine says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    It’d be interesting to watch BiBi’s freak out if trump started talking about a summit with the Iranians.

    Genuine question – is that something Putin would ever want?

  49. 49
  50. 50
    PsiFighter37 says:

    @BR: Representing rich white techbros in Silicon Valley and being a Sanders supporter doesn’t really square. I don’t trust him mainly because Mike Honda was a really solid dude and had zero reason to be primaried hard.

    At some point, there is going to be a reckoning / split between the tech community and Democrats, because the only thing that the past 20 years have shown is that if you let tech companies do whatever they want, they will become monopolies in the truest sense of the word.

  51. 51

    Detecting this more and more — D voters have discovered six or seven candidates they take seriously and are annoyed by the bottom tier.If that doesn’t change after the debates, field’s going to start thinning. https://t.co/iPYqTjHuuU— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) June 22, 2019

  52. 52
    trollhattan says:

    Holy crap, a Norwegian player just made a textbook stop of Kerr in front of the goal and the fast breakout nets Norway a 1-0 lead. Wow!

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    I’m more annoyed with the top tier.

  54. 54
    NotMax says:


    “Do you agree that Attorney General Barr has breached his oath of office?”

  55. 55
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I doubt there is any connection. The Bush-connected Walkers came from Missouri, and Walker is a pretty common last name. As far as the fur trade goes, there was a time when WI was an important part of the French route from Quebec to New Orleans. They would leave the Great Lakes at Green Bay and canoe down the Fox River. They would then portage to the Wisconsin River near the present day city of Portage (go figure). The Wisconsin fed into the Mississippi and thus down to New Orleans.

  56. 56
    zhena gogolia says:


    He gave an hour-long speech at Indiana University on that topic. A good one.

  57. 57
    ThresherK says:

    Remember when the press were pissing themselves with joy about the prospect of GWB bringing the adults (sic) back to the White House?

  58. 58
    James E Powell says:


    Is there minussing? Because some people might see two candidates with similar platforms, but see a smear campaign against the 2016 nominee and helping to put Trump in the White House as a “minus.”

  59. 59
    rikyrah says:

    What does he intend to do with ICE?

    What does he intend to do about private prisons?

  60. 60
    Another Scott says:

    @Raven: It’s his usual “negotiating” style.

    There aren’t enough ICE people to round up millions. And not enough places to put them if they tried.

    It’s stupid.

    But that doesn’t mean that ICE won’t continue trying to round up as many people as they can, and keep their concentration camps operating and as horrible as possible for as long as they can.

    Nancy has his number:

    Mr. President, delay is welcome. Time is needed for comprehensive immigration reform. Families belong together.


  61. 61
    dmsilev says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: The thresholds for debate qualification start increasing after this one (or maybe after the next one), so that should help winnow out the Moultons and deBlassios and so forth.

  62. 62
    smintheus says:

    @trollhattan: I was a bit surprised to see Karina Saevik starting this match…the Norwegian who laid in that beautiful pass from midfield. She is outstanding with the ball on her foot, but she often seems as if she’s wandering around half lost when it comes to defending. She’s also good at intercepting passes, though, so maybe what she’s really doing is trying to look as if she’s out of position. Anyway, at this stage Norway has a well deserved lead.

  63. 63
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Thanks. I’ll have to Google it.

  64. 64
    Kent says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    He apparently brought Cornel West on stage with him today, who campaigned for Jill Stein after Bernie blackmailed the Clinton campaign into putting him on the platform committee. Can no one tell that bitter old crank we all know the story about the Obama inauguration?

    Wait, what? what story about the Obama inauguaration?

  65. 65
  66. 66

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He fell in my estimation when I found out that he had shortened the already short Rohit to Ro. I prefer Kamala H’s and Barack O’s approach to dumbing down my own name for the sake of people who can’t be bothered to say it right.

  67. 67
  68. 68

    I’d really rather not see any more presidents taking office for the first time after 70. The oldest presidents to take office have been–if I haven’t missed any–Trump, Reagan, Zachary Taylor and Jackson. The only decent one among them was Taylor, and he didn’t make it through two years in office.

    Biden would be 78 when he takes office if he wins. Sanders would be 79, and Warren would be 71. I think 60-65 is a reasonable cutoff for starting the job. It’s a draining, punishing one, after all.

  69. 69
    debbie says:


    Um, yeah, the sections of the West Bank israel plans to annex.

  70. 70
    debbie says:

    @Another Scott:

    And how should Trump be made to pay for all his false accusations? //

  71. 71

    @Another Scott: They’ll let the Palestinians build a tribal casino with their share(as long as it’s on their reservation).

  72. 72
    Ksmiami says:

    @Redshift: what I just don’t get is the poor messaging and lack of fight within the institutional Democratic Party. Like they STILL do not understand that the other side is completely corrupt, evil and fighting to the death? I am so upset with the old bipartisan crap I don’t even want to give money until I hear fighting words… The other side is made up of fascist authoritarians and our side timidly asks them to be sensitive. fuck this shit I want the GOP and Trump destroyed and their followers ostracized and marginalized.

  73. 73
    Kent says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Heh. Thanks for the link. So he’s been a massive douche for a long time obviously. I sort of remember this stuff now, at least the Tavis Smiley nonsense. So much water under the bridge since then you tend to forget all these little fragile ego eruptions on the left.

    Does Cornel West actually have any kind of constituency with the black community anymore? Or is he just an old Harvard fool followed by old white liberal types? I really don’t have any idea about these sorts of things. But he seems pretty damned old and out of touch.

  74. 74
    debbie says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    The day after the debates, the candidates should seriously consider whether they have a realistic change, and then if they don’t, refocus on Congressional, state, or local offices.

  75. 75
    debbie says:


    Kind of like Newt’s tantrum for having to ride in the back of the plane. //

  76. 76
    Chyron HR says:


    “Yeah, right, a janitor is gonna get inauguration tickets and not the tenured Princeton professor who collects five figures for public lectures–COME ON!

  77. 77
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Gogolia > Google.

  78. 78
    Kent says:

    @debbie: A lot of them will be forced to by sheer economics. The burn rate of a modern presidential campaign is enormous. Once the funding dries up or is gone, it is pretty damn hard to maintain any semblance of a modern campaign. Only people who can do that are the billionaire types who can self fund like Perot or Bloomburg or Schultz.

    The chances of other candidates helping retire your campaign debt also diminishes if you stay in and become a nuisance for too long.

  79. 79
    chris says:

    @Kent: Cornell West went Laura Ingraham’s show on Fox to “debate” Candace Owens. That’s really all I need to know about him.

  80. 80
    NotMax says:

    @ Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)

    William Henry Harrison (68) and James Buchanan (65) were both older than Jackson or Taylor when they assumed the office.

  81. 81
    Steve in the ATL says:

    That Australian corner kick was insane.

  82. 82
    Ruckus says:

    @Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
    This one reason why my choice is Harris, Warren…… Not Biden, never BS.
    I like Warren a lot, her ideas and ways to get there are good and I think she’d make an incredible Senate majority leader. But as someone who is within less than a month of being the same age as her I just think there is a too old limit. Now everyone is different so she may have far more age and energy left than I feel that I do so. But Biden just doesn’t give me anything for the job and BS is about a thousand miles behind Biden.Both IMO are too old. The country needs more, deserves more. But president is a far different job than senator and we need someone to be that strong leader to get things done and I think Warren would be amazing as senate majority leader.

  83. 83
    debbie says:

    Dude’s really pussying out now:

    Trump Says He’ll Delay Deportation Operation Aimed at Undocumented Families

    WASHINGTON — President Trump on Saturday delayed plans for nationwide raids to deport undocumented families, but threatened to have Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents resume the raids in two weeks if Democrats do not submit to changes in asylum law they have long opposed.

    Immigration agents were planning to sweep into immigrant communities in 10 major cities on Sunday in coordinated raids. Officials said on Friday that they would target about 2,000 families in a show of force aimed at enforcing immigration laws.

    If the plans had gone forward, some immigrant children — many of whom are American citizens because they were born in the United States — would have faced the possibility of being forcibly separated from their families when ICE agents arrived to arrest and deport their undocumented parents.

    Democratic lawmakers and immigration activists had demanded that the raids be stopped, calling them a cruel attack on minority communities whose only crime was illegally entering the country. Speaker Nancy Pelosi on Saturday called the raids “heartless” and urged Mr. Trump to “stop this brutal action.”

    The president did that a few hours later, saying in his tweet that “at the request of Democrats, I have delayed the Illegal Immigration Removal Process (Deportation) for two weeks.”

    But Mr. Trump made clear that he planned to use the looming threat of family deportations as a cudgel to try to extract concessions from Democratic lawmakers in his long-running battle over changes to immigration laws.

    That threat has the potential to set up a fierce legislative battle during the next two weeks as the president and Democrats on Capitol Hill clash over Mr. Trump’s demands to drastically limit opportunities for migrants from Central America and other areas to apply for asylum in the United States.

    Choosing Camp David over golf was a clear sign something was afoot.

  84. 84
    James E Powell says:

    These camps, the mistreatment of children, the lack of any reasonable explanation for separating families. This is all an opportunity for the Democratic candidates to raise their standing among Democratic voters. We want to see them taking on Trump & the Republicans in ways more dramatic and effective than speeches condemning them. We all already feel that way and want something more.

    What, you ask? I’m not sure, but I’d err on the side upsetting people.

  85. 85
    rikyrah says:

    I think it’s cause, the Democrats didn’t really run away from calling them Concentration Camps. Some did, but more didn’t.

    In top of that was that horrific video of that Justice Department lawyer trying to explain why children don’t need a bed, toothpaste or Soap.

    Then, the nerve of them to open back up the Japanese Internment Camp, and there are enough people alive who remember, speaking up and out.

    They haven’t gotten the press they deserve on this issue, but what they have, has been horrendous.

  86. 86
    debbie says:


    Democrats not running away must have shocked the hell out of the Republicans.

    (I didn’t see that video, and I’m not sure I want to.)

  87. 87
    trollhattan says:

    Holy crap, Kennedy may have been red-carded.

    There it is, Aussies down to 10 in OT.

  88. 88
    MomSense says:


    Did you catch Harris today at the SC Democratic convention? Her speech was fiery and good and then she left the convention hall with a parade with drums leading the way. She was dancing in front. I’m telling you she’s the one with the cool factor we need.

  89. 89
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @Baud: There WAS a deal. He broke it. Why would they believe him?

  90. 90
    guachi says:

    I’m at the Buttigieg event in South Carolina. Lots of people in line. Really, really white. Like 98% white.

  91. 91
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @trollhattan: overall, the women on the Australian side are more attractive than those on the Norwegian side. One could argue, however, that the Norwegians deserve to win simply because they have been playing better than the Australians.

  92. 92
    joel hanes says:


    I really don’t trust [Ro Khanna] and am glad I’m not in his district.

    I am in Khanna’s district.

    We exchanged email in the early stages of his candidacy — at that time, I told him that I thought that Sanders had neither the temperament nor the competence to be a good President, and at that time, Khanna said he agreed.

    I will look for someone else to vote for. Won’t make any difference, but I won’t vote for him again.

  93. 93
    trollhattan says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    The Fam are big Portland Thorns fans and three of today’s Aussie starters play for the club, so we’re de facto Matilda fans, but Norway has completely won me over today.

    What a cracking match! Best of the tournament by far.

    ETA how good has Lydia Williams been today?

  94. 94
    seefleur says:

    @Melusine: If I could “rec” this, I’d do so a thousand times. Thank you for posting this – there are a lot of us out there who can empathize with Ms. Carroll’s situation from first-hand experience. She said that she hadn’t come forward because she’s a “coward”. I vehemently disagree – I think she’s definitely a hero and a survivor.

  95. 95
    zhena gogolia says:




    That is all.

  96. 96
    zhena gogolia says:


    Interesting. I hope you can keep giving us reports.

  97. 97
    trollhattan says:

    Welp, PKs. Ellie Carpenter had run 13km by the time she subbed out. That’s 30 meters at a time for two hours.

    But then she’s 19. :-)

  98. 98
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @trollhattan: it’s been great. But both these teams are clearly not at the level of the US or French women.

    PK’s—meaning penalty kicks and not Pekay Kennels, where we get out Golden retrievers—bring back some PSTDesque memories of when the goalie’s mom met a guy and moved to Vegas and my daughter has to play keeper for a season and a half. I wasn’t mentally prepared for that after years of watching her at striker.

  99. 99
    Belafon says:


    A little charisma and inspiration works, too.

    A lot of inspiration will be needed because the president doesn’t write the laws. She is going to have to get people to get their Congresscritters to write and pass stuff, and that includes dealing with the filibuster in the Senate and the fact that the GOP got to mess with the courts.

  100. 100
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I don’t get the connection.

  101. 101
    A Ghost To Most says:

    Watching women’s soccer is slightly less boring than men’s. But then, I’m a hockey fan.

  102. 102
    trollhattan says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    My kid played keeper most of her rec days–basically the one girl willing to do it–then moved to the field. One appalling league game years later both keepers were out and she got pressed into service. Just one game but she HATED it–the box had grown and she hadn’t. At least not enough.

  103. 103
    trollhattan says:

    Whoa, that seems unpossible. Kerr?!?

  104. 104
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @trollhattan: yeah, not even close. Maybe she has money on Norway?

  105. 105
    Another Scott says:

    A couple from LOLGOP:

    LOLGOP @LOLGOP 57 minutes ago

    Some conservatives argue that is is Congress’ fault for not give Trump enough money to persecute immigrants.

    Trump declared an emergency to allows him to swipe any funding he wants. And he’s using that money to put walls in the middle of the desert, not to buy kids soap or beds.

    LOLGOP @LOLGOP 51 minutes ago

    I bet if Barack Obama suggested he was going to jail a reporter for taking a photo on the same day he was credibly accused of rape, conservatives wouldn’t be spending their Saturday defending not giving migrant children soap.

    Someone here really doesn’t like “IOKIYAR”, but these tweets seem to be a perfect illustration that it’s an excellent shorthand for the way DC politics and political reporting works.



  106. 106
    trollhattan says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Son of a guun, Norway are though. I think Australia spent themselves mentally holding even through OT with ten, which was herculean.

    Among the best matches I’ve seen, women or men or border collies.

  107. 107
    Steve in the ATL says:


    ETA how good has Lydia Williams been today?

    Indeed. And if she’d been born with a Y-chromosome, she’d be a middle linebacker in the NFL right now.

  108. 108
    guachi says:

    Finally seated at the Buttigieg event. Outdoors. It’s cool but a chance of rain.

    No seating and I didn’t bring my own but the grass is comfy.

    I’ll try to get in line and ask a question.

  109. 109
    Lymie says:

    Well, Norway deserved that.

  110. 110
    zhena gogolia says:


    “How do you plan to get the Balloon Juice vote?”

  111. 111
    West of the Rockies says:


    His immediate family?

  112. 112
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @zhena gogolia: “by going negative on Baud!”

  113. 113
    zhena gogolia says:


    Their names are constantly misspelled on Balloon Juice.

  114. 114
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @zhena gogolia: the first two are missing letters that should be there, and the third one is clearly made up, so they deserve all the misspelling!

  115. 115
    Sab says:

    @rikyrah: My stepdaughter went into (bad) fostercare when she was four because her single mother, age 25, had MS so bad she had to go into a nursing home. Her mother explained what was happening to her and why, but she was terrified.

    My husband adopted her at age 10. She is in her mid-thirties and is still damaged from the experience. She says she cannot imagine what these kids who don’t know English and have no explanation must think.

  116. 116

  117. 117
    Cacti says:

    Elizabeth Warren as nominee = 4 more years of Trump.

  118. 118
    trollhattan says:

    Bzzzt, Please try again.

  119. 119
    VeniceRiley says:


    Since this is a new thread *and* an election thread I’ll put my request here:

    Pete Buttigieg has Town Hall in North Augusta, SC today at 5 pm. I live across the river in Augusta, GA and I’ll be attending.

    What question should I ask him?

    IDK how about … Did you solve AfAm & Police relations in South Bend in a matter of a few days home? Is that why you’re here, instead of there? Did knowing Norwegian help in any way?

    I’m a little snarky about this kid, TBH

  120. 120
    Baud says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    Ah! I thought the answer was three people who have never been to my house.

  121. 121
    Cacti says:


    Her DNA test was a true political master stroke.

  122. 122
    guachi says:

    I have never heard Pete speak before.

    Opening remarks (paraphrasing)
    “Health Care is freedom”
    “Marriage equality is freedom”
    “Good pay is freedom”
    “Women’s freedom in health care choices is freedom”

  123. 123
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Cacti’s trolling is getting more pathetic. Is he sundowning or decompensating or just can’t even any more?

  124. 124
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I hate it when people don’t even know how to spell their own name. Sheesh….

    [Subaru Diane wanders off, muttering “What a world, what a world….” under her breath.]

  125. 125
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I can’t keep track of the people on here who are Never Biden and the people who are Only Biden Can Save Us. Not belonging to either camp, it’s a little confusing.

  126. 126
    Cacti says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    You’re right. Warren totally didn’t let Donald Trump bait her into getting a DNA test. And it surely wouldn’t be made the focus of a national campaign against her by the Rs.

  127. 127
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: you and I both know that “Duine” doesn’t have two n’s! (But yes, I know the backstory and it makes perfect sense, was quite clever in fact)

  128. 128
    guachi says:

    Question time with Pete:

    All questions were submitted beforehand and are being drawn out of a jar.

    Question 1: Climate change. Renewables. Rejoin Paris Accord. Some pie in the sky about storing carbon in the ground. Carbon tax with rebates.

  129. 129
    guachi says:

    Pete townhall question 2: First surprise as mayor.

    Quickly answered snowstorm on day one as mayor.

  130. 130
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Raven: Fuck him. Fuck this fat, orange fascist Soviet shitpile. Fuck everyone who agreed to work in his bastard administration, and fuck the Republicans that voted for him and the Republicans that keep him in office.

    Fuck anyone who threatens to punch you in the face and then wants thanks for not hitting you, because that’s what this shit is.

  131. 131
    guachi says:

    Pete question 3: Young people being involved in social change. (, asked by college student)

    Young people make a difference even if they can’t vote. Students can push social change. Young people add moral dimension to questions – 12-year old asked him about gun violence.

    Tax cuts for the wealthy burden the young.

    Engage your friends.

  132. 132
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Oh FFS, Cacti. Literally (pace Steve in the ATL) nobody in the Democratic Party cares about that. Personally, I never had an issue with it; I get that some people thought it was dealt with a bit ham-handedly, but she dealt with the fallout quite deftly. Using it now to attack Warren is quite simply handing a cudgel to Trump and the Republicans. And you surely wouldn’t want to do that, now, would you?


    Asked and answered, I believe.

  133. 133
    Another Scott says:

    @Cacti: USAToday story from February:

    “Senator Warren has reached out to us and has apologized to the tribe,” Cherokee Nation spokeswoman Julie Hubbard told The Intercept. “We are encouraged by this dialogue and understanding that being a Cherokee Nation tribal citizen is rooted in centuries of culture and laws not through DNA tests. We are encouraged by her action and hope that the slurs and mockery of tribal citizens and Indian history and heritage will now come to an end.”

    What Donnie does or doesn’t do isn’t on her. He makes crap up, like all the GOP bigwigs do.

    She’s a good candidate and brings a lot to the race. She would be an excellent nominee.


  134. 134
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    Bethany Albertson @ AlbertsonB2
    Not a campaign consultant, but can someone tell me why it wouldn’t be smart for 1 of the 50 million people running for President to redirect their fundraising page to @RAICESTEXAS for 24 hrs?

  135. 135
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Oh, yes, it was deliberate! Thanks for remembering that :-)

  136. 136
    guachi says:

    Pete question #4: Iran.

    Thought he was one of last soldiers to leave Afghanistan five years ago.

    End endless war.

    Guys who got us into Iraq are in power now. Glad he (doesn’t say Trump. Calls Trump he or him) didn’t bomb Iran but what does that say about him?

  137. 137
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I almost said, “Good for Jebbie” but then he had to go all Jon Stewart and add “Congress” in there

    Jeb Bush @ JebBush
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/21/us/migrant-children-border-soap.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share … via @NYTimes This is heartbreaking. And completely Un-American. The President and Congress need to stop using immigrants and immigration as a political wedge issue. There is a policy solution here.

  138. 138
    Melusine says:

    @seefleur: Yes, she is.

    I used the word “victim” because I know so many women who say similar things or hold similar attitudes, who have no hesitation expressing compassion for “real victims”, but “don’t want to see myself that way”.

    Because deep down, a lot of them still feel like THEY did something to deserve it. They aren’t “real victims”. They’re complicit, or broken, or wrong in some way that made it happen.

    And society tells them they’re right.

    She is a real victim, and one hell of a survivor. I can’t imagine the courage it took to come forward now, against him, even in a semi-comedic tone.

    And ((hugs)) – if welcome – to you and anyone who can empathize. And many shots of the beverage of your choice. Jesus, I can’t wait ’til this administration is over – the sheer number of abusers they packed in alone is staggering, not to mention all the other grossness and -isms. We should have a civil suit for PTSD benefits just for the constant exposure to this shit. It’s like radiation without a half-life.

    And then I watch this and I feel a little better:

  139. 139
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Another Scott:

    being a Cherokee Nation tribal citizen is rooted in centuries of culture and laws not through DNA tests

    Yeah, Ms. Spokesperson, you know damn well that she never claimed that.

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m not as stupid as people say!

  140. 140
    Cacti says:


    In a general election, it will be an issue. And the fact that she can be baited into mistakes is a red flag. No Dem is bringing it up, just like none are bringing up Bernie’s fondness for communist strongmen. Doesn’t mean it won’t be a problem.

  141. 141
    trollhattan says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: @Another Scott:
    It’s unpossible the candidate running the most effective primary campaign and advancing the most in polls could make the best candidate for the general. Things like that just don’t happen.

  142. 142
  143. 143
    Another Scott says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Objection, barrister!! Ms. Spokesperson doesn’t say that she did. It’s obvious to me that Ms. Spokesperson was addressing the “controversy”, and the idea that was in the press that membership could somehow be claimed if one had enough of the right type of blood, and telling Donnie and his minions to cut the crap.

    At least it read that way to me. YMMV.


  144. 144
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Another Scott: The thing is, I can agree that Warren screwed up on the DNA test and also that she’s apparently learned from it and has really learned how to ‘run’ the media.

    Other people see a single mistake and declare its over. And I think this particular commenter is huge on Biden, who makes a lot of mistakes. Its inconsistent.

  145. 145
    guachi says:

    Pete question #5: politicians above the law?

    DOJ independent thinkers. “Homework dealing with things during these four years” implying some may be going to jail.

  146. 146
    guachi says:

    Question #6: Candidates getting along. What about later?

    Candidates genuinely like each other. But prepared to keep party from being pulled right. All must come together and support nominee.

  147. 147
    guachi says:

    Question #7: Corporate socialism?

    Says it’s a good way to put it. Makes joke about conservatives wanting socialism for the rich and capitalism for the rest.

    “Socialism is just rhetoric”

  148. 148
    zhena gogolia says:


    How’s the crowd reacting?

  149. 149
    Cacti says:


    Not really. My preferred candidate is Harris. I just get tired of the herd slagging a good Democrat because it’s currently hip to do among the internet left.

  150. 150
    ola azul says:

    Prepping boat for king opener, listening to Rev. Sharpton interview plodding oaf Joe Biden. Al give Joe *lotsa* chances to, if not apologize, at least make an appeal to black folks that shows Joe understands why his comments re: his longing for the chummy days of working with neoconfederate loons is, ahem (to turn a phrase on its head), a black mark against him.

    Joe being Joe, self-justifies his comments in a completely tone-deaf display of, at best, indefensibly clumsy politicking, and at worst, with the air of a man who don’t know what he don’t know and can’t never be learnt.

    As I was listening to him defensively make the case for himself, my thoughts turnt toward the coming debate night on Thurs., and it occurred to me my ideal outcome:

    Clod Joe and clap-louder Bernie square off, escalate, and arrive at their goetterdaemerung inna live-onstage murder-suicide spectacle.

    Good for ratings. Great for country. Drive Trump nuts. Also, too.


  151. 151
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I vote for Tulsi and Wilmer to redirect for 24 hours(and then drop out of the race).

  152. 152
    Cacti says:

    @ola azul:

    How’s the weather today in St. Petersburg?

  153. 153
    zhena gogolia says:


    I just get tired of the herd slagging a good Democrat because it’s currently hip to do among the internet left.

    I’m with you there. But I’m with you there about all the Democratic candidates (minus Gabbard).

  154. 154
    Kathleen says:

    @MomSense: She’s a Happy Warrior! I loved how she paused for a few seconds to watch and dance. The more I observe her the more I like her. And she does have the cool factor.

  155. 155
    Kathleen says:

    @Melusine: Excellent observation. Thank you for posting it.

  156. 156
    ola azul says:


    I’m certain you feel you have a point, but I don’t much care what it is.

  157. 157
    guachi says:

    Question #8: college debt

    Praises Obama holding bad colleges accountable. Bring back rule.

    Expand Pell Grant. Peg to inflation. Debt free college for low income. Too expensive to go to college. Too expensive not to go to college.

  158. 158
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I whole-heartedly believe any other Republican president would’ve done the same thing, but been less Look-at-me-I’m-an-asshole about it.

  159. 159
    zhena gogolia says:


    Is this on YouTube?

  160. 160
    guachi says:

    Question #10 (missed#9): energy policy.

    Reduce carbon. 100% renewable. Eventually eliminate nuclear but carbon first. Batteries are big for intermittent power sources.

  161. 161
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    Thank you so much for providing this running commentary! Hope you’ll do a comprehensive summation later on.

  162. 162
    zhena gogolia says:


    In his foreign policy speech, and in some of what you’re posting, what I like about what he says is that HE’S GOING TO RESTORE A LOT OF OBAMA POLICY THAT DRUMPF HAS DESTROYED. I know probably any of our candidates would, but he’s really specific and unapologetic about it. He says in the foreign policy speech that he’s going to recommit to the Iran deal.

  163. 163
    guachi says:

    Question #11: bail bonds asked by a public defender.

    Burden before even go on trial. “Profiting on misery”. For profit prisons have to go.

  164. 164
    guachi says:

    Question #12: Medicare for all.

    Practicalities of Medicare for all. Buy in option first. “Proof of concept”. Too much spent on administration.

  165. 165
    guachi says:

    Question #13: Universal income.

    EITC – effective anti poverty measure. Income floor? “Not prepared to embrace check-in-the-mail”

  166. 166
    Cacti says:

    @ola azul:

    This is my concerned face.

  167. 167
    guachi says:

    Question #14 (last question): Charter schools

    Charter schools not helping. End expansion of for-profit. Can’t be at expense of public education.

  168. 168
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m not as stupid as people say!

    And I’m not as drunk as some thinkle peep.

    No, seriously, I’m wildly impressed that you remembered the backstory of my nym. When I consider that I was only 10 years old when I came up with it, well.

  169. 169
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Cacti: Anyone who cares wasn’t going to vote for a Democrat, regardless of ethnicity, gender, or species.

    Thanks for the ongoing lame Republican talking points…

  170. 170
    Cacti says:


    You’re welcome to think that. I don’t share your opinion.

  171. 171
  172. 172
    guachi says:

    @zhena gogolia: Crowd reacted as you’d expect. It’s a bunch of Democrats.

    I wish I could remember what answers generated the biggest crowd response and the best I can think of is the importance of getting rid of “him”.

    Pete, in his opening remarks, talked about not getting involved in “his” reality show or game show or horror show. That got a good response. Acknowledge Trump is terrible, talk about issue.

  173. 173
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Kathleen: Honest to God, people accuse her of “pandering” even for moments like that.

    Either some people are Republican trolls or they’re just that racist… or BernieBros, because all of the really hateful criticisms of her seem to come from people who are mysteriously convinced that Bernie is the best thing ever.

  174. 174
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    In a general election, it will be an issue.

    Oh, I see. So you’re saying that any negative thing said about Warren at this early point in the primaries will be used as a cudgel by Trump/RNC in the general? Why wouldn’t that be true of any of the 20+ Dem candidates? And for that matter, why do you implicitly assume that we won’t do the same to Trump?

    You don’t support Warren, fine, I get it. You want to tear her down as unelectable 16-1/2 months before the general? Fuck off.

  175. 175
    Ruviana says:

    @Gozer: Also too,a small group of philosophy professors.

  176. 176
    Cacti says:


    Unelectable is unelectable, no matter how months until the election.

    I’ve also said if Bernie is the nominee, Trump will win 40+ states. But I don’t remember you getting your dander up about that. It sounds like your favorite ox is being gored.

    The majority of the declared candidates have no real chance at the nomination and aren’t worth a mention.

  177. 177
  178. 178
    FlyingToaster says:

    @Cacti: My opinion is based on being the child of two precinct workers from a city in the Bible Belt, growing up there, and having done my time knocking on doors and dealing with this bullshit.

    Right now, the US looks an awful lot like the late 1840s. There’s a serious difference in how one section (~40%) views the nation, and everybody else. They’re living, and voting, on spite, resentment, and a Ceres-sized chip on their shoulder, about how educated or coastal elites or feminazis or blackety-black-black-black are cheating them out of their god-given entitlements. And one media empire and one political party has been cashing in on this for decades.

    They won’t vote for any Democrat. I refuse to waste my time trying to get their votes.

    An air war won’t work in 2020. This is going to be boots (and lawyers) on the ground, starting two years ago. Which makes candidates like Warren, Harris, Buttigieg, Castro, and Klobuchar, people who show up with “I’ve got a plan for that” and details on how to get the job done, very fucking attractive to the door knockers. Or at my advanced age and child-care committments, pizza-buyers for the door knockers.

    The other Democratic* candidates aren’t so terrible; they’re just not bringing anything to the table that can get those boots on the ground.

    *Wilmer ain’t a Democrat. Gabbard is registered as one, but honestly, NO.

  179. 179
    debbie says:


    Unelectable is unelectable

    Which was said about the current asshole-in-chief.

  180. 180
    NotMax says:

    @Wilson Heath
    OzarkHillbilly brought it up for discussion within a thread on Wednesday.

  181. 181
    Cacti says:


    So Warren has a plan for Russia to steal the election for her?

  182. 182
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Wilson Heath:

    I read about Meth Squirrel earlier this week. They were very funny about him on NPR’s Wait, Wait … Don’t Tell Me! today.

    Cool fact, not widely reported: Meth Squirrel’s name is Deez Nutz.

  183. 183
    Jeffro says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Seconded. It’s all on the Rapist Racist and his evil familiar, Stephen Miller. Full stop.

  184. 184
    J R in WV says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I was in the neutral camp regarding Biden until recently. His letters regarding school desegregation and busing with hard-core segregationist fascists racists have moved me to the other camp. Never Biden, unless he receives the Democratic Nomination, which I don’t believe he can do.

    Move me to the Done with Biden camp now. Tho I was actually the Harris or Warren camp from the get-go.

  185. 185
    NotMax says:


    Not to be confused with the presidential candidate last time around.


  186. 186
    debbie says:

    @J R in WV:

    Done with Biden camp

    I like this. I’m with you. I cannot imagine why he thought it was a good idea to talk about being civil with segregationists.

  187. 187
    mrmoshpotato says:


    Cool fact, not widely reported: Meth Squirrel’s name is Deez Nutz.

    Just for clarity, it was Deez Nuts that ran for President in 2016.

  188. 188
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: You beat me to it.

  189. 189
    Another Scott says:

    @FlyingToaster: My take is a little different.

    We’ve always had political disagreements in the USA, but the middle was pretty big (on most things) and we managed to keep moving forward (with steps back along the way).

    And then the GOP blew up the economy. And anyone who had any understanding at all of what happens when the economy blows up, people lose their homes, their jobs, their retirement, and their savings, could easily see the dangers. The fascists didn’t appear out of nowhere, they appeared when the economy was in the tanks and when too many people were looking for others to blame.

    Obama and the Democrats and the Fed kept the economy from falling into a depression, but the recovery was much, much too slow. Too little was done about housing. Too little was done to get the bottom half of the economy experiencing a real recovery. And this was done intentionally by the Republicans. They knew that there would be resentments that they could exploit (with help from Mr. Gerrymander, certain courts, legislators with no respect for conventions and norms, etc., etc.)

    “Swing” voters will swing back when they see a reason (in their own minds) to do so. Politics is change – though often on time scales that are terribly frustrating!! I don’t think we should give up on certain voters, but we have to be strategic in our efforts. 1) Turnout as many voters as possible, and remove as many barriers to voting as possible. It’s very difficult to steal an election in a blowout. 2) Have an inclusive message. Voters aren’t the enemy – the Teabagger apparatus (the funders, ALEC, the “think tanks”, and all the rest) is the enemy. Candidates aren’t entitled to votes, they need to persuade voters. 3) Be competent and make meaningful progress as quickly as possible. Assume that you have 2 years to make an impact, because in too many cases that’s all you get before you risk losing the House… The Teabaggers cannot be a veto on necessary policies because they thrive when government doesn’t work.

    tl;dr – “It’s the economy, stupid” is too simplistic, but when too many people are hurting (or angry) then very bad things can eventually happen.”

    My $0.02.


  190. 190
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I’ve also said if Bernie is the nominee, Trump will win 40+ states. But I don’t remember you getting your dander up about that. It sounds like your favorite ox is being gored.

    I fully agree with you about BS. If we nominate Wilmer, I think we’re dead as a party for at least the next few decades. I’ve felt this way for a very long time, and I don’t much care if you “don’t remember [my] getting [my] dander up.”

    My favourite ox? We are a long, long way from the Georgia Dem primary, and I have no idea in June 2019 who in March (?) 2020 will even be on the primary ballot. Right now, I like Harris and Warren (coin-toss), Booker, Buttigieg, Castro. I am eager to hear from, and observe, most of the others. There are only two or three that I’d actively oppose right now. Quit trying to decide the outcome of an election nearly a year and a half before it takes place.

  191. 191
    SiubhanDuinne says:


    I retreat in embarrassment. Thank you for the correction.

  192. 192
    Dave says:

    @guachi: can we please bail out Studebaker?

  193. 193
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @germy: Anti-busing bill!!

    What in the world!?!?

  194. 194
    Kathleen says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I’m sure it’s all of the above. It’s so hard for me to put my finger on why she attracts criticism of “pandering”. Is it because she lined the podium with her African American sorority sisters when she gave her speech? Oh, wait. She didn’t do that.

    I’m so over these people.

  195. 195
    mrmoshpotato says:


    I retreat in embarrassment. Thank you for the correction.

    No need. We’re talking about different things here – 1. A meth-fueled attack squirrel created by a psycho and 2. A joke Presidential candidate.

  196. 196
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @mrmoshpotato: either of which would do better than our current president!

  197. 197
    Ruckus says:

    Old time politician. Get publicly along with everyone you can, then behind closed doors do what’s best for those that got you there.
    There are almost no closed doors left. Which is a good thing but it’s why that doesn’t work any more. And on our side of the aisle that never really did work, because we have a wider variety of opinions, we are more inclusive. And currently the republican party has become much less inclusive, embracing the racism and support of the rich getting much richer – fuck everyone and everything else.

  198. 198
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Not sure about the squirrel there. I wouldn’t want to see its cabinet.

  199. 199
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @mrmoshpotato: guarantee it wouldn’t have Stephen miller in it!

  200. 200
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @asshola azul: Gee, our intermittently-resident fucking imbecile is back. At least you’ve dropped your incoherent-hick shtick (maybe we should call it “redneckface”), even if the burden of your posts is still utterly stupid.

  201. 201
    Ruckus says:

    Come on….. At least it could be somewhat funny.
    And nothing about the current defect in the WH is funny.

  202. 202
    Procopius says:

    Thank you for this. Especially thanks for the link to the Dahlia Lithwick article. It clarified for me why I like Warren so much, even though she isn’t as far left as I would like. It’s because she treats people like human beings, who deserve thoughtful answers instead of just a sales pitch. She still isn’t my first choice, but I could happily vote for her instead of reluctantly deciding there are enough ways in which she is the lesser of two potential evils.

  203. 203
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Ruckus: So what if Biden wins primary but dies before election date?

  204. 204
    debbie says:


    I come from a conservative family, nothing but Republicans (which is why I was convinced they had brought someone else’s baby home). Up until Trump, we joked back and forth and got along. Not anymore. Trump’s fixed that. The Tea Party, Proud Boys, MAGA, etc., etc., etc. fixed that. No more. It’s time to find our principles. I will not abide those who think they have to be civil to those who will not be civil back.

  205. 205
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Cacti: Funny, your “concerned face” looks like everyone else’s ass.

    A death-cage match between you two would really help clear the air in this blog. Especially if the survivor expired from blood loss before they could drag him out of the enclosure. Lose-lose as win-win!!

  206. 206
    mrmoshpotato says:


    Come on….. At least it could be somewhat funny.
    And nothing about the current defect in the WH is funny.

    “Today President Meth Squirrel sold Alaska back to Russia for an oak sapling. And his translator says he’s just getting started. Negotiations on how much bird seed is New York state worth to the Chinese are under way.”

  207. 207
    zhena gogolia says:



  208. 208
    Ruckus says:

    I have no idea. I don’t think that’s ever happened. We’ve had a president who died shortly after taking office but as far as I see no one before the election.
    And it’s one reason I’ve spoken out about Biden here. We have quite a while before the primary and I’d bet that Biden will shoot himself in the foot (or other body part) long before then. But I’m not willing to go with the anyone but drumpf bandwagon, we need better, we need to win the senate as well. Sure pretty much anyone on the left of the spectrum will be better than drumpf, but that’s a bar set too low. And it’s why we have 23 people officially running for the democratic nomination. One of whom isn’t even a democrat and is even older.

  209. 209
    Miss Bianca says:

    @zhena gogolia: err…what is Michael Bennet doing in that line-up? Trying to think what these three have in common.

  210. 210
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Their names are always misspelled on BJ.

  211. 211
    Ruckus says:

    And how is that worse than trying to start a major war. Or tanking the economy with tariffs?

  212. 212
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Steve in the ATL: PK in Evangelical speak means ‘preacher kid.’

  213. 213
    laura says:

    @Quinerly: man Quinerly, you made my morning when you posted this downstairs. It was so very lovely. I kept wishing I could call my dad and tell him to listen, but he died March of 18. So many memories shared and favorite songs and reminiscences. My Buddy, Candy and In a Sentimental Mood. . . Thank you

  214. 214
    J R in WV says:


    “Today President Meth Squirrel sold Alaska back to Russia for an oak sapling.”

    Oh, comm’on, it would have to be a big oak tree, making bushels of acorns!! No sapling would do for it…

  215. 215
    Ruckus says:

    Liberal family upbringing here, but I agree wholeheartedly except I don’t think they have any idea about civility. They think their world will be just fine if every liberal were dead. Maybe not everyone of them but far from a minimal percentage. They shoot kids. They run over people with cars. They give nazi salutes. They think nazis are the real deal.
    And cheer about it. That’s not civility. If they were actually civil a discussion might be possible. It isn’t.

  216. 216
    Kathleen says:

    @zhena gogolia: You’re welcome! ETA: I was going to type “No problem” but thought better of it (LOL).

  217. 217
    Steve in the ATL says:


    “No problem”

    Is this a US-only phenomenon or do French teenagers say “pas de problème” or “aucun problème” or whatever instead of “de rien”?

  218. 218
    Cacti says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    You know what everyone else’s ass looks like?

  219. 219
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @Steve in the ATL: In 91 (I think) while in Munich I saw sign in store window that said ‘nullo problemo.’

  220. 220
    Kathleen says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I have no idea. I’ve said “no problem” many times but there was a spirited debate on an old thread about “no problem” vs “you’re welcome” (many Juicers objected to “no problem”) so I was riffing off of that discussion.

    Interestingly enough, I found this regarding the Spanish version of “you’re welcome””

    While much less common, por nada is another way of saying “you’re welcome” that roughly translates to “it’s nothing.” More literally, por nada means something along the lines of for nothing. In Spanish, por is a preposition usually used to mean “for” or “on account of.

  221. 221
    Jiminy's Cricket says:

    @Another Scott: Sorry, Warren will never be President. Though I am a fan of her policies, the whole Cherokee debacle showed what a poor candidate she is, with bad instincts. The white men who will be deciding (again) who the next President will be are not going to accept a perceived weakling as the leader of this country. I would love to exist in a world where policies decide who is President. Sadly we do not live in that world….

  222. 222

    I like Warren, and have supported her from the very beginning, but wonder if she can be nominated; the big money Democratic donors may oppose her. I’m still expecting it to be Harris. Warren scares the big money too much while Harris was a prosecutor who had Mnuchin in her sights and did not take the shot and thinks the mortgage settlement was pretty good.

    Meantime, I did a piece on the national labs and the Green New Deal. Bottom line: most of the effort for the past 70 years has been spent on fossil fuel and nuclear. We know how to build a nuclear system, we don’t know how to build a wind-and-solar system and either way we still haven’t actually started. We are so fked. https://adviceunasked.blogspot.com/2019/06/getting-started-green-new-deal.html

  223. 223
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @J R in WV: I’m banking that President Meth Squirrel would be very, very stupid.

  224. 224
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Ladyraxterinok: It was probably “Null problemo,” from the German dub of the TV series ALF. (You could look it up.)

  225. 225
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Ruckus: President Squirrel can give Alaska (and Sarah Palin) to Russia, but New York? Really?

    And ummm…wow….this is an actual conversation. I should’ve bought booze instead of beer.

  226. 226
    Uncle Cosmo says:

    @Cacti: I know an ass when I see one posting, fuckhead.

  227. 227
    joel hanes says:

    It seems to me that G. es macht nichts and S. es de nada and “no problem” are the same thought.

  228. 228
    Ruckus says:


    And ummm…wow….this is an actual conversation. I should’ve bought booze instead of beer.

    And I stopped drinking 16 yrs ago.

    OK now I’m beginning to see the problem……..

  229. 229
    smintheus says:

    @Kathleen: ‘Por nada’ like ‘de rien’ and ‘pas du tout’ and ‘fa niente’ can be translated by several common English phrases such as ‘not at all’ and ‘don’t mention it’. Not quite the same as ‘you’re welcome’ though.

  230. 230
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Steve in the ATL: “Pas de problème” is fairly common in French-Canadian.

    I like it better in French than in Ebglish, truth be told.

  231. 231
    Cacti says:

    @Uncle Cosmo:

    Stop looking at everyone’s ass, you perv.

  232. 232
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Raven Onthill: Warren is at 10% in the Massachusetts state primary polls because the states’s voters are being led around the nose by “Big Donors”?

    Thank goodness Warren doesn’t embrace feeble minded conspiracy theories like some of her “supporters”.


  233. 233
    Ithink says:

    @Jiminy’s Cricket:
    Uh yeah…so, duck that noise from you; if she isn’t the nominee, it’ll be because slim majorities of the Democratic caucuses chose a more moderate candidate and are more in sway with pretty but empty sloganeering and personality versus inspired and detailed policy proposals. White men didn’t get what they wanted in two of the last three Presidential Elections and intend on dragging the U.S. to the pre-Civil Rights & Feminism era, because what else can they do well?
    Our current President* has lied more than any sentient homo sapien prior to and stand alone during his breathtakingly pointless tenure in office; he also fibbed about being of Swedish descent back after WW2 when being German was the abstract equivalent of being a literal Nazi (never mind that all the Nordic countries are essentially Germanic extracted ethnic groups). I’m sure this doesn’t matter to nagging noobs such as yourself who apparently believe straight white men to be suicidal generis holy grail of God’s creation despite their myriad sins simply because they’re pale and have penises. I’ll traverse broken glass nude to see her get nominated so give me a God damn break!

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