Friday Morning Open Thread: Well, *That* Was Timely…

Wednesday:


 
Thursday night:


 
Potential Friday distraction:






139 replies
  1. 1
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄 😄😄

  2. 2
    PeakVT says:

    Apparently it’s a better morning than yesterday, a day on which the government of this country was about to initiate military actions in response to a very, very minor incident, which resulted from what was probably a planned provocation.

  3. 3
    Mezz says:

    The obvious answer to why Trump called off the attack (I’ve read the planes were in the air) is because Putin threatened Trump with the release of compromising information, right? I’m sure we’ll never find out, but of anything plausible, I’ll put this as my top choice.
    Good times.

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Blech.

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    @Mezz:

    Just catching up on this news. So Trump called it off. But who called it on in the first place?

  7. 7
    Raven says:

    @Baud:

    Chain
    Of
    Command

  8. 8
    Baud says:

    @Baud:

    Ok, just found out that it was Trump who changed his mind.

    This article says Dems were united. That’s great.

    We need to step back from the brink of war’: Democrats urge restraint after Trump cancels Iran strike

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    @Mezz:

    The article I just linked to says it was called off hours before it was supposed to happen.

  10. 10
    JPL says:

    @Mezz: So you think Putin was the real grown-up in the room. interesting theory

  11. 11
    Baud says:

    @Mezz:

    There’s some suggestion that this was all for show. Like fake punching somebody to make them flinch. That’s why it was leaked to the news.

    Who knows.

  12. 12
    Betty Cracker says:

    My daughter and I exchanged texts about it yesterday afternoon.

    We weren’t worried!

  13. 13
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Thanks, Putin.

    Maybe Obama should come out in favor of war just to seal the deal.

  14. 14
    Amir Khalid says:

    One of these days, I fear, Trump will go to the brink of war, lose his footing*, and fall right in.

    *Or maybe “lose” his footing, or — worst case scenario — Putin nudges him off-balance at the right moment.

  15. 15
  16. 16
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: That would’ve made Bolton’s head explode.

  17. 17
    satby says:

    Some days I’m glad to miss any news for several hours.

    @rikyrah: Good morning 🌞
    @OzarkHillbilly:😘

  18. 18
    satby says:

    I see the Guardian is back to fluffing Wilmer again.

  19. 19
    MomSense says:

    While we were sleeping Needy Amin launched an attack and called it off after the planes were already in the air? I can’t open any of the NYT and WaPo articles but that seems to be the twittergeist.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @satby: They had stopped?

  21. 21
    MomSense says:

    There are a bunch of photos of the mess left behind after the trump rally in Orlando. It’s straight out of Idiocracy. Trash, folding chairs, and more trash everywhere.

  22. 22
    MattF says:

    Just woke up. Oy.

    Can someone pleeze push the big red button on the wall so that the shadowy minions of the deep state can come in and take over? PLEEEEZE????

  23. 23
    MattF says:

    @Baud: It leaked because no one’s in charge.

    ETA: I miss Alexander Haig.

  24. 24
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @satby: He was on CNN Wednesday saying people are supporting Warren because she’s a woman.

  25. 25
    debbie says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    He looked particularly grumpy yesterday. Must have been because his favorite toy was taken away from him.

  26. 26
    Kay says:

    @MomSense:

    Allegedly. They lie constantly, as you know. I don’t think we know anything without verification from someone who wasn’t hired by Donald Trump. First off, I don’t think we know “Trump” ordered anything.

  27. 27
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    Do you have a transcript? I’d like to see it from the horse’s ass’s mouth.

  28. 28
    Kay says:

    Fin Gomez
    ‏Verified account
    @finnygo
    11h11 hours ago
    More
    SCOOP: Allies of @SarahHuckabee commissioned a poll In Arkansas “weeks ago” about a potential gubernatorial matchup w/ other likely GOP. Results showed SHS “crushing” her opponents. Sanders seriously considering but likely won’t decide for 2 years

    LOL. The liar’s allies have a poll that show her “crushing” someone or other, but no one can know whether they made that up for “two years”

    Now why would they give Sanders this gift, printing this? Because she lied to their faces over and over again? She’s not credible. Nothing she says can be believed.

  29. 29
    Princess says:

    As we’re being told this and that about what Iran has done and what Trump and his people might do or want to do, our best defense, based on the history of both Gulf Wars, is to assume everything we’re being told could be a lie.

    That’s not a comfortable place for me. I’m not a “Fake news!” screamer. But based on my experience of the Press and the government in such situations, I think it’s the right reaction.

  30. 30
    rikyrah says:

    @JPL:
    I think that Vlad told him to sit his azz down😒😒

  31. 31
    germy says:

    Bolton Argues War With Iran Only Way To Avenge Americans Killed In Upcoming War With Iran


    https://www.theonion.com/bolton-argues-war-with-iran-only-way-to-avenge-american-1835704580

  32. 32
  33. 33

    Whoa. Bad things happened while I was asleep.

    I skimmed the overnight posts, and between stupidity over Iran and concentration camps for desperate undocumented immigrants, I am considering going back to bed and pulling the covers over my head.

  34. 34
    MattF says:

    @rikyrah: And Vlad is the trustworthy one in the room. I need a ‘not sarcasm’ indicator.

  35. 35
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: Always always always assume they lie because that is a habit of theirs and habits are hard to break. Not that they are trying or anything.

  36. 36
    MomSense says:

    @Kay:

    Apparently he sent word through Oman that he wanted to talk to Khamenei and he replied thathe didn’t want war but he also didn’t want to talk to trump.

    This is so chaotic and bizarre that I’m inclined to believe it.

  37. 37
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    Great country, this America: Ignoring the abusive treatment of immigrant children, but freaking out because one of their machine-toys was attacked. As stupid as the start of WWI was, this tops that in the Stupid Department.

  38. 38
    germy says:

    Trump: We’re gonna bomb Iran!

    Putin: That would make me super mad.

    Trump: pic.twitter.com/HNXBeVeXWB

    — The Hoarse Whisperer (@HoarseWisperer) June 21, 2019

  39. 39
  40. 40
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Baud: my link is ending up in moderation

    It’s an article on Vanity Fair titled: “Sanders: Warren Is Surging Because She’s Got Ovaries”

  41. 41
    JPL says:

    @MomSense: Why would they trust trump?

  42. 42
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: Speaking of that lying sack of shit:

    On Wednesday, two White House correspondents, Politico’s Anita Kumar and DailyMail.com’s Francesca Chambers, invited fellow reporters and some Trump staffers to “farewell drinks” for Sanders at an upscale D.C. restaurant on June 24, according to a copy of the email invitation obtained by HuffPost

    Kumar, who sent the email, described the drinks to HuffPost as a “casual gathering for reporters who have engaged with Sarah, many of whom have done so for years.” She noted that such events are “quite common, regardless of administration ― as many Huffington Post reporters know and have frequented.” (It’s not clear which events Kumar was referring to, but HuffPost has never thrown a party for an administration official.)

    “The challenges between the administration and the White House press corps are well documented and, in some cases, ongoing,” Kumar said. “I generally believe that part of the remedy to those challenges is to engage in conversation rather than to avoid it.”

    What a steaming load of horseshit. Someone should ask Kumar to explain the point of engaging in conversation with a shameless liar who makes up big fat whoppers when she deigns to do her job at all. This is a textbook case of normalizing Trumpism. How unsurprising that a Politico employee would be leading the charge.

  43. 43
    Kay says:

    @Princess:

    It’s an opportunity for political and public opposition to get organized and start making noise, so in that sense the chaos and incompetence is good. They haven’t had to defend this at all. They haven’t even explained it.

  44. 44
  45. 45
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: I thought they were sarcasm quotes.

  46. 46
    plato says:

    @Kay:

    The ‘base’ elected the no. one liar to the no. 1 post. I see her lying through her xtian teeth is a plus with her batshit crazy base. Trump has exposed how corrupt not only the whole party is but also how totally corrupt their entire base is.

  47. 47
    Baud says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    Thanks. Found it.

    What do you think the reason is that Elizabeth Warren is catching up to you in polls? Do you believe that people see her as the more electable version of Bernie Sanders?” To which the lawmaker from Vermont responded, “Well, I think we are running against a lot of problems.” He then proceeded to describe said problems. “I think that there are a certain number of people who would like to see a woman elected, and I understand that,” Sanders said. “There are people who would like to see somebody who is younger, and I understand that also. There are a lot of factors out there.”

    LOL at the second point. She ain’t young. She just ain’t decrepit.

    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/06/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-woman

  48. 48
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    They’re throwing her a party because she lied to them, and us, for two years. They’re rewarding it. They’ll get more of it.
    I just can’t get past the issue that these interactions and interviews and attempts to make nice with Trump and his hires have no value for the public. They get closer to Huckabee and then what? She gives them access? Access to what? Her bullshit? Ultimately talking to her or listening to her is a waste of time.

    “I spent 30 hours with Trump! Watch my show!” Why? He lies all the time. Why bother?

    They’re interviewing the same discredited witnesses over and over and over. Get new witnesses! Call someone else! This batch is discredited. They can’t be rehabilitated.

  49. 49
    germy says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    Meanwhile…

    Almost forgot about this, but yesterday, Matt Gaetz burst into the Speaker’s Lobby all upset and demanded to know which reporter is asking all his colleagues if they hate him.— Arthur Delaney (@ArthurDelaneyHP) June 20, 2019

  50. 50
    satby says:

    @Baud:

    She ain’t young. She just ain’t decrepit an asshole.

    There. Fixed that for you.
    And then I fixed it for me 😆

  51. 51
    germy says:

    @Kay: Party for Shuckabee?

    Unless they have it arranged that she arrives to find a room with a single person who says, “Look, nobody ever said there’d be a party,” this is really gross Stockholm syndrome stuff. https://t.co/RifXZDogRw— Schooley (@Rschooley) June 20, 2019

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    The challenges between the administration and the White House press corps are well documented and, in some cases, ongoing,” Kumar said. “I generally believe that part of the remedy to those challenges is to engage in conversation rather than to avoid it.”

    So now the media is both-siding itself to make Republicans look better.

  53. 53
    plato says:

    Remember mcangry’s ‘bomb, bomb, iran’ ditty?

    Good times.

  54. 54
    satby says:

    My dilemma almost every day that it’s decent weather: I have to mow the lawn, but right now it’s too wet. And by the time I get home from the market it will be too hot and buggy out (for me, I’m a wimp when it gets close to 80° with any humidity).

  55. 55
    plato says:

    Did these shameless wh press corrupt corpse throw such ‘parties’ for any of Obama’s press secs? I don’t think so.

  56. 56
    Kay says:

    @germy:

    I love newspapers. I buy three. Okay, one I don’t read except for the legal notices, but I do buy three. I 100% back the First Amendment. But I can’t defend these people. They make it impossible. I get that it’s a business but I’m not a volunteer advocate for their business or their careers because they’re impossible to defend. They do this to themselves. If they want to commit suicide far be it from me to get in the way.

  57. 57
    Betty Cracker says:

    @germy: He was probably drunk. That most likely explains the witness tampering tweet during the Mueller probe too. Gaetz is a great example of how connected politicians funnel their unemployable wastrel children into positions of power.

  58. 58
  59. 59
    Kay says:

    So what did we in the public learn from Huckabee-Sanders talking to a reporter about her future plans?

    We learned that there is or isn’t a poll that she did or didn’t pay for that she wants us to know show her “crushing” opponents in her planned political career. None of this has any value, except to 1. the reporter and 2. Huckabee-Sanders.

  60. 60
    sixthdoctor says:

    @germy: Matt Gaetz is Rik from the Young Ones.
    https://youtu.be/Shk8HawnCTs

  61. 61
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: I did too, I said ‘scare’ because that’s what I’ve heard used, never heard ‘sarcasm quotes” before. My brain is just on auto pilot this AM.

  62. 62
    danielx says:

    Additional confirmation, as if it was needed, that Trump doesn’t have policies. He has impulses, which can change at a moment’s notice.

  63. 63
    Ken says:

    @germy:

    Matt Gaetz demanded to know which reporter is asking all his colleagues if they hate him

    Probably none of them – his colleagues are all volunteering the information.

    This somewhat reminds me of the complaints by (mostly Republican) politicians that the Google search results are rigged to make them look bad, by always bringing up reports of stupid things they’ve said and done.

  64. 64
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @plato: They probably did, the story here is not that they are throwing a party for a press sec, it’s that they are throwing a party for a press sec who constantly lied and incited violence against them.

  65. 65
    Kay says:

    I know everyone thinks a war with Iran will be popular and we’re all traumatized from Iraq, but I am betting it will not be popular and that may stop Trump. He cares a lot about being popular. I know he’s not popular, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t care- it just means he can’t get people to like him because he has no redeeming personal qualities.

    Not being popular has never meant “didn’t desperately yearn to be” and it doesn’t mean that here. He wants to be loved. It’s just that he’s hateful and mean-spirited and empty so he isn’t. Loved.

  66. 66
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    That’s what happened when the Texas Democrats left town to avoid a redistricting vote. Governor called the State Troopers to go get them

  67. 67
    Kay says:

    The night we invaded Iraq the war-mongering local Bush supporters were driving around honking their horns. We live “in town” so we were treated to this silly show of belligerent joy at invading another country that didn’t attack us. I will never forget it.

    But I’m betting it’s different this time. Hence the rush to flood the media with the war drums and drown out any opposition. Delay is good. Delay throws a wrench in their plans.

  68. 68
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    I agree. Comparisons to Iraq are usually pretty tenuous.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    All the more reason to be firm with them.

  70. 70
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay:
    I agree. The war they are trying to drum up isn’t really on anyone’s radar except as a nostalgia event. They really haven’t even tried hard to make us hate Iran. We pulled out of a deal that Obama made that was largely popular in this country as it eased tensions. Now, after ripping up that deal, they want Americans to want war because of tensions? It’s absurd and more than half the country (Hillary voters to begin with) will hate it.

    So, it will never be a war, at first. But it will be fancy airstrikes and video of bases being bombed. A count not of their dead but of how many cruise missiles we fired.
    Boo ya!

  71. 71
    MomSense says:

    @Kay:

    It only confirmed again how worthless the WH Press Corpse is.

  72. 72
    Kay says:

    @Immanentize:

    But it will be fancy airstrikes and video of bases being bombed. A count not of their dead but of how many cruise missiles we fired.
    Boo ya!

    Oh, God, I hope not. I don’t know a lot but I know Iran isn’t Iraq. Iran will fight back. And they’ll have help.

    I have these weird memories. The things that stick. I don’t know what day we invaded but one of the days following was a Saturday and I was working alone and I had the radio on and the news anchors voice had so much excitement in it I had to get up and turn it off. I was disgusted and sad at how thrilled he was. Could not listen to another word.

  73. 73
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    From what little I’ve seen, the media seem more gung ho about war with Iran than Trump is!

  74. 74
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: I almost got into a fight because I said “Fuck Bush.”

  75. 75
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I think the comparison with Iraq is helpful as far as public opinion in that it’s the same people. The same people are pushing it. It amazes me that people even listen to Bolton. He is the least credible person on the face of the planet on this and he’s the point man. Incredible. You wonder about them as individuals- if they believe they’re credible. They must but wow, talk about a lack of personal accountability. Just missing. None.

  76. 76
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay: I agree a war with Iran would not be popular, and that’s what might save us. The danger is that Trump is dumb enough to be convinced that it would be popular. But maybe a combination of his innate huckster’s instinct for reading a room plus Putin’s discouragement might see us through. Amazing that we’d need to rely on those two repellent factors for a good outcome, but here we are.

  77. 77
    MomSense says:

    Here’s the important question from yesterday. In the Oval Office press avail yesterday, was Trudeau’s Cough genuine or trolling? I think I spied a smirk after he coughed so I’m going with trolling.

  78. 78
    Immanentize says:

    @Kay:

    Iran will fight back. And they’ll have help.

    Yes they will. Or maybe more accurately, others will strike back with Iran’s help. In many different places. Oil ships won’t go to the area not because the straights are closed but because they might be (this is already happening and Trump’s latest move insures it will continue). Gas prices will soar.

    I really have no idea if this is actually his goal? Loot the public further before he gets thrown out of office? But with Bolton and Pompeo, they want the war.

  79. 79
    Kathleen says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: Then I saw tweet where he said people want Mayor Pete because they want to vote for gay guy. I am not kidding. And Good Blechning All!

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    Iran says it refrained from shooting down U.S. plane with 35 on board: Tasnim news

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-usa-drone-airplane/iran-says-it-refrained-from-shooting-down-u-s-plane-with-35-on-board-tasnim-news-idUSKCN1TM1H0

    Something like this would make war popular.

  81. 81
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: They all want to get their CRB*.

    * Combat Reporting Badge

  82. 82
  83. 83
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Bush pushed Iraq in the glow of 9/11. Trump doesn’t have that.

    Republicans never lose credibility as long as they win elections.

  84. 84
    Betty Cracker says:

    So, Trump’s on Twitter right now screeching about the WITCH HUNT FBI NO COLLUSION FAKE NEWS. Looks like maybe he TiVO’d the Fox News prime time line-up and is responding to a segment on Carlson’s show. Nothing so far addressing reports that he approved a strike and then called it back. Jesus. This is such an insane time.

  85. 85
    Kay says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I know I won’t win this fight and they’ll excuse Trump, but I’m loathe to allow him to evade responsibility for this because he told the NYTimes he doesn’t want war. He hired these fucking people. He busted up the Iran deal out of petty jealousy and hatred of Obama. This is his.

    Bush at least had the decency to own his fucking war. Trump can’t even do that. Instead we get this bullshit cowardly dodging, like a 6 year old. The standards slip again. New bottom.

  86. 86
    Dave says:

    @Kay: It would be a disaster and in a way that directly impacts people. So while there might or might not be a war bump it will be very temporary especially when gas prices go through the roof never mind that it isn’t 2003. Trump’s awareness of this and his overall cowardice might be the only thing keeping Bolton and Pompeo at bay. Heaven help us all but back to your point no war would not be popular.

  87. 87

    @Kay:

  88. 88
    Baud says:

    If Trump wins reelection, he won’t have to worry about the political consequences of going to war.

    In case you needed extra motivation.

  89. 89
    Kathleen says:

    @rikyrah: That’s exactly what I believe also.

  90. 90
    oclday says:

    Maybe Putin called him and said ” sit the *uck down bitch I didn’t call your name”.

  91. 91
    Amir Khalid says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    There does exist the disheartening possibility that the attacks have merely been postponed.

  92. 92
    Kay says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    The NYTimes political team is again running Trump backup by saying he “doesn’t want war” Are they psychologists? Why do we get this insane examination of his inner feelings in response to the things he does.

    It’s like how we’re still discussing whether he’s a racist. I don’t have to read his inner soul! I have what he does.

  93. 93
    sherparick says:

    @Baud: That would probably be all that’s needed to keep the peace. Also, Obama could say that the war in Yemen was all his idea and Saudi Arabia and Nehtanyahu have been his best buds the whole time and both would be dead to Trump in no time. Meanwhile, I believe we have Trump’s instinctual cowardice and the ghosts of the Vietnam War to thank for saving us from a disaster this morning.

    I note that on MSM-Boy left, the theme is “will the Democrats fight to stop the war,” which is a reminder that in American politics only Democrats have agency and that everything that goes wrong is their fault, despite a Republican President and a Republican Senate.

  94. 94
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Betty Cracker: He can’t remember all his lies Betty.

  95. 95
    Kristine says:

    @satby:

    My dilemma almost every day that it’s decent weather: I have to mow the lawn, but right now it’s too wet.

    That was my yesterday. I wound up mowing.

    They have backed off on the amount of rain expected for my immediate area this weekend, but given the chance of localized torrential downpours, I’m still concerned. We don’t need any more rain.

  96. 96
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Segregation wasn’t racist because it also separated whites from black people. #EveryoneIsABadLawyerNow

  97. 97
    Kay says:

    @sherparick:

    the theme is “will the Democrats fight to stop the war,”

    They really have allowed Republican Presidents to evade responsibility with this. They so let Bush off the hook by turning the focus to Clinton is is like Hillary Clinton invaded Iraq. I sometimes have to remind myself she was never President. They give her all of the accountability and none of the power of the President. It’s insane. My youngest is a newly minted Lefty- I’m hoping he learns some critical thinking at some point- he’s smart- he will- but I periodically have to remind him that President George W Bush invaded that country because he was a baby when it happened.

  98. 98
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    My youngest is a newly minted Lefty- I’m hoping he learns some critical thinking at some point- 

    Especially when it comes to the left.

  99. 99
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I read that with interest because although it’s not widely know, “busing” worked. Integration worked and it worked better than what we do now, which is “separate but equal”. Supposedly. Equal is the goal, anyway.

    It’s another proof point in the set showing racism is its own barrier and is more than income differences. Contra Bernistas.

    Here’s another thing I didn’t know. 90% of the anti-busing people were busing their kids anyway. Those kids were traveling out of “neighborhoods” to school. It wasn’t the trip they objected to.

  100. 100
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay:

    “busing” worked. Integration worked

    Hence the need to end it.

  101. 101
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    I think he will. I think part of his extremism is a reaction to the fact that he lives in such a conservative area. He’s not confident or at peace as a political minority. I actually am, but I didn’t get there overnight. I don’t get as upset because I’m not defensive.

    One nice thing about him is he asks real questions and listens to the answers. I can’t stand the barrage of set pieces pulled off the internet that I get from Lefties in D meetings. I will not engage with that. I don’t want the terms of art that stand for a whole set narrative. I want him to use his own words.

  102. 102
    Kathleen says:

    @Ken: I wonder if the Veep character Jonah Ryan is based on him. Gaetz sure reminds me of Jonah.

  103. 103
    MomSense says:

    @Kay:

    I remember busing because we lived in Massachusetts. I was a student in a public school that was already more diverse than most because we had a naval air station in our town. My mom worked in Boston and I took ballet lessons in South Boston. They had riots over it in a south Boston. It was crazy.

  104. 104
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    The competing theories are that 1) Trump backed away from starting a war at the last minute for some unknown reason vs. 2) there was no planned attack and Trump admin is just pretending there was one to hide the fact that their policy is trash. Neither would be surprising

    Dear god, number to fits “dumb arse, who understands nothing and thinks it’s all Big Time Wrestling” Ya dumb ass Donny, now what when it not fake violence?

  105. 105

    @Kay: I think there is some value in trying to figure out Trump’s state of mind. But I agree, the Times all too often uses that to whitewash his egregious actions.

    I think that Trump genuinely doesn’t want war. There are many possible reasons for that, from pleasing his base to his being a hidden geostrategic genius. Those secondary motivations are less important. The problem is that his great negotiating skills consist only of bullying and threats. When he had a financial advantage over his negotiating partners, that often worked. But not always – he had six bankruptcies and lost banks’ willingness to deal with him.

    On the international scene, bullying and threats will get you recalcitrance and war. That’s fine with Bolton and Pompeo, who want war and thus encourage him as the greatest negotiator ever. But when it looks like it actually will be war, Trump panics and pulls back. That’s a pretty good indicator that he doesn’t want war.

    But he doesn’t have the negotiating skills and tools to do anything other than provoke war. And he can’t conceive that such things exist.

  106. 106
    Kay says:

    @revrrlewis
    Follow Follow @revrrlewis
    More
    Brian Kilmeade is against diplomacy with Iran: “Why would we talk to them? Blowing up tankers of our allies, then they blow up our drone, and then we’ll talk to them? Makes us look so weak!” Says that Trump was “giving them an out” by calling the shootdown a mistake.

    These Fox people. I know they get paid millions and millions of dollars to drum up war and destruction but how do they live with themselves? They’re empty-eyed ghouls. These are actual people who get up every day and go to do this work. They can’t even claim some noble belief. They are paid to open their mouths and spout this garbage. That’s it. That’s the job.

  107. 107
    jonas says:

    This is a classic Trumpian “negotiating tactic” that he used frequently back in the day in NYC — let his opponent know he *could* “totally destroy” them with one phone call or something, but then pulling his punch at the last minute because he’s “a nice guy” who “is still willing to make a deal.”

    Problem is, Iran is not some schlub sitting on a right-of-way Trump wants for a parking structure or something.

  108. 108

    The man himself speaks

  109. 109
    Baud says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    I’m in no hurry either. Maybe take some time off to play some golf.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    @Cheryl Rofer:

    Trump didn’t have to do anything. That’s what kills me. He could have sat in that office and taken credit for all economic events and not-wars and no one would have noticed because he does that anyway. His actions cause these problems.

    He would be in better shape for re-election if he had golfed for the last 3 years. He could have worked on the projects he likes, like redesigning the plane to look exactly like the Trump Airlines planes or promoting his horrible otherwise-unemployable children. The stuff he knows how to do. He could have just hired competent normal people and set it on autopilot.

  111. 111
    TS (the original) says:

    @Kay:

    Bush at least had the decency to own his fucking war

    trump makes us see good in everyone else. Never thought there would be a reason to say something positive about Bush.

  112. 112
  113. 113
    TS (the original) says:

    @Kay:

    He could have just hired competent normal people

    If he could find competent normal people who were willing to work for him. Big ask.

  114. 114
    Searcher says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump’s on Twitter right now screeching about the WITCH HUNT FBI NO COLLUSION FAKE NEWS. Looks like maybe he TiVO’d the Fox News prime time line-up and is responding to a segment on Carlson’s show. Nothing so far addressing reports that he approved a strike and then called it back. Jesus. This is such an insane time.

    In Seveneves, the Moon blows up and everyone but a handful of people dies horribly. But afterwards, the survivors look back on our era and are like, man social media was MESSED UP, and vow not to repeat our mistakes.

    So, happy ending.

  115. 115
    Belafon says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: If it would actually cause Bolton’s head to explode then Obamba could do a great service for the country.

  116. 116
    Kay says:

    @TS (the original):

    He did own it. He took full responsibility for the people he hired too. Trump wants us to believe some group of people – he may or may not know them personally- are “voting” and there’s “swing votes”. WTF. I get better responsibility dodging from clever 7th graders. Take your war, asshole. It’s yours. 100%.

  117. 117
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    They’re throwing her a party because she lied to them, and us, for two years.

    it’s absolutely ridiculous!

  118. 118
    Another Scott says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: ¿Por qué no los dos?

    :-/

    All the RWNJs wanted to destroy the JCPOA before Obama even started negotiating it. Donnie was just along for the ride. It being an Obama accomplishment was part of it, but the Teabaggers never want to be constrained from the potential use of force against anyone, anywhere, to try to get what they want.

    Grrr….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  119. 119
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I know everyone thinks a war with Iran will be popular and we’re all traumatized from Iraq, but I am betting it will not be popular and that may stop Trump.

    I don’t think it will be popular at all.
    WHO the phuck wants to go to war with Iran?
    WHY?

  120. 120
    chris says:

    @MomSense: I went to high school in Boston, class of ’73. 1200 students, 50 of them were black and came on the bus every morning. It worked, mostly, but certainly a lot of parents were upset.

  121. 121
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    Kay,

    the ship thing was found out to be a fraud last week.
    And now, they were pushing war because of a shootdown of a phucking drone.
    Not a manned aircraft. but, a DRONE.

  122. 122
    Kay says:

    @TS (the original):

    One of the nice things about practicing laws is there’s so many rules, and the rules save so much time. Lawyers are “rule people” as one of my friends says. The first thing you learn on your first day is if you sign and file it it is YOURS. 100%. There are no explanations. No one else can be blamed, don’t waste your breath. It’s very efficient. Clarifying.

  123. 123
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    I don’t know a lot but I know Iran isn’t Iraq. Iran will fight back. And they’ll have help.

    Phuck with the Persians if you want to.
    They.are.not.playing.

  124. 124
    Barbara says:

    @TS (the original): Having a bit of an inside understanding of some of the appointments to the Trump administration, they seem to come in two general categories. The first are people like Shanahan (but in other agencies as well) where a corporate employer essentially asks them to serve (take one for the team) just to know that someone in the administration has some clue about how government programs normally work and who won’t unleash chaos out of ignorance. This isn’t simply trying to get favors out of the government, it’s trying to protect commercial interests that are entwined with government programs.

    The second are like Barr and Bolton. People whose professional life revolves around grabbing power in whatever way they can get it. They leap frog from think tanks or law firms or lobbying shops to serving in the executive branch. They have their own agenda and they are only too willing to serve a president whose lack of knowledge is like a vacuum that they think they can fill with their own pet ideas. For instance, if Trump truly thought the Iraq war was a bad idea he wouldn’t let John Bolton get within a mile of the White House.

  125. 125
    Another Scott says:

    @Kay: +1

    Or, as someone out there said (roughly), “I don’t know whether Trump in his heart is a racist, but I do know that out-and-proud racists love Trump and his policies…”

    Reporters need to learn not to regurgitate what someone says as if it is the most important thing. Reporting the truth in context is the most important thing.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  126. 126
    Dave says:

    @Amir Khalid: Very true. Trump is nothing if not inconstant and Bolton/Pompeo are dedicated to getting their war on.

  127. 127
    Booger says:

    So can somebody explain anything to me about this “Iran?” Apparently it sprang full-blown from the forehead of some guy called Khomenei in November 1979, and had no history, culture or presence on the world stage that anyone can identify prior to that instance? Why does it hate us so much that it killed the drone called “Maine” over the Gulf of Tonkin?? Why can’t it just leave us alone??? /s

  128. 128
    Another Scott says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: IMHO, Donnie really, really wants to be able to use the military to force other countries to do what he wants. And have some glorious victory without paying any political costs. That’s why he green-lighted and rushed the raid on Yakla, Yemen. That’s why he threw $100M in missiles at Syria. That’s why he threatened Venezuela. That’s why he’s threatening Iran.

    He can’t accept that he has a huge military under his command, but he can’t use it without huge costs to his political future. He can’t accept that life isn’t zero-sum – that everyone can lose in a war. And he wants more than almost anything to be re-elected. So anything that lessens the chance of that happening is something he’s very reluctant to do (with his fingerprints all over it). That’s why he’s screaming about firing Powell and demanding that the Fed cut interest rates – he knows that the economy is softening. He knows he needs cheap gas and blowing up the Middle East won’t give him cheap gas…

    ( Another 10 screen saying basically the same thing. )

    It’s a conundrum for him and we’re going to be whipsawed by his bipolar desires as long as he’s in the Oval Office.

    Grrr….

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  129. 129
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    But, isn’t that what he did? All this domestic policy is Pence. Remember when Kasich revealed the ‘ offer’ he received to be Vice President? Why does it look like that’s what Pence has been doing?

  130. 130
    Another Scott says:

    @Barbara: Thanks.

    Yet another illustration of why Donnie’s “management style” is such a disaster. By not having enough staff, and thinking he’s smarter than everyone else, he is incredibly easily manipulated by people who have their own agendas.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131
    Immanentize says:

    @Booger: nice

  132. 132
    prostratedragon says:

    @Baud: The mouth of the horse’s ass /paraph sounds like the title of a Charles Mingus piece. He’s not around lately, but someone should compose one.

  133. 133
    prostratedragon says:

    @rikyrah: Putin said he was opposed a couple of days ago, so everything that’s happened since then is probably just another, very thick, layer of posturing. Furthermore,

    Russia will help Iran with oil if payment channel not launched

    Russia is ready to help Iran with oil exports and its banking sector if the Instex European payment system is not launched, Interfax news agency cited Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov as saying on Friday.

    Last night I listened in vain for ABC News to mention the words “Putin” or “Russia” during their reporting on the so-called standdown.

  134. 134
    J R in WV says:

    @Princess:

    …our best defense, based on the history of both Gulf Wars, is to assume everything we’re being told could be IS a lie.

    FTFY…

  135. 135
    J R in WV says:

    @Baud:

    Iran says it refrained from shooting down U.S. plane with 35 on board…

    Something like this would make war popular.

    We shot down an Iranian air liner with 280 odd civilians and kids on board. A crazed Navy captain…

    Iran Air Flight 655 was a scheduled passenger flight from Tehran to Dubai via Bandar Abbas, that was shot down on 3 July 1988 by an SM-2MR surface-to-air missile fired from USS Vincennes

    Then the Navy gave everyone medals to show they did nothing wrong… that would confuse me, except it was the Navy… they’re the ones who are dazed and confused, still.

  136. 136
    Ruckus says:

    @Kay:
    Some people are excited about war, some about actually even themselves going to war. Those of course are exactly the people you don’t want going. Unless what you want is war for war’s sake. Not a war to defend something, a war of retribution for some slight, real or imagined. There are times we need people who will die for their country if necessary. And that if necessary is doing a lot of the work there. Most of the work. But people who are positively excited about war but never want to or might have to put themselves in harms way, those people are dangerous because they can suck all the oxygen out of an entire nation. drumpf is one of those people, with one caveat, he is a chickenshit of massive proportions. He is extremely chickenshit when it comes to personal responsibility. Anything that might cost him in any way, physically, monetarily, status as the greatest human ever, if it might be in any way costly to him, he’s a chickenshit. If it might, just possibly reward him he will think about it. But if he gets any sort of whiff of cost…..

  137. 137
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Yes it is obvious that we both served in the same navy.

  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    @Kay:
    FTFNYT is trying to make up a story line that he’s not the vile creature that we all see, it’s that his inner soul is good, it’s the world around him that’s bad.
    They are trying to normalize drumpf. To make him as presidential as possible. Of course that possibility is zero, he ins’t presidential, he has no inner soul, every thing he is is out on display for all to see. And if one sees anything more than an extremely narcissistic 6 yr old it is 100% projection because there is nothing else there but a extremely narcissistic 6 yr old mentality.

  139. 139
    J R in WV says:

    @Ruckus:

    “Yes it is obvious that we both served in the same navy.”

    Around the same time too. By the end phase of the Vietnam war all our military was in pretty sad shape. All the money went into that shitty but expensive war, none left over for normal military support. Just like now!

    All the aircraft are used up, from old helicopters to new strike fighters, A-10s… They pulled a B-52 out of the boneyard not long ago, scary, that.

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