Corporate Dems for Warren! (Open Thread)

This fucking guy:

What a fucking fuck-face. Including Medicare for All was a nice touch since Warren co-sponsored his damned bill.

At least Sanders is making it clear this run is all about his Trump-scale ego early in the race. Maybe this is why?

Can’t wait to see that old turd flushed down the drain, and the sooner the better.






222 replies
  1. 1
    mad citizen says:

    I’ve never understood why Wilmer is allowed to run as a Democrat at all. Probably to much to hope he loses ground next week post-debate, but here’s hoping. More likely Biden falls after looking out of touch. Sanders has too much of a cult following.

  2. 2

    Are Corporate Dems the new neo-liberal shills?

  3. 3
    The Dangerman says:

    Not ego, pure ratfucker (see Stein, Jill)

  4. 4
    dmsilev says:

    If you define “the Democratic establishment” as “everybody who is not a Bernie Sanders supporter”, it becomes much easier to claim that the establishment is opposed to Sanders.

  5. 5
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump administration threatens furloughs, layoffs if Congress blocks plan to eliminate personnel agency

    Speaking of Assholes, we’re not going to have much of a federal government left at the rate the GOP is breaking everything.

  6. 6
    TenguPhule says:

    Trump to award Presidential Medal of Freedom to economist Art Laffer

    That’s it. This timeline has officially jumped the shark.

  7. 7

    @mad citizen:

    Sanders has too much of a cult following.

    I think the size of Bernie’s true cult following is pretty small; they’re just incredibly loud on social media and get a helping hand from media figures who want to cause chaos for the Democrats. If he’s reduced to just his cult, he won’t finish higher than fourth or fifth.

  8. 8
    feebog says:

    Wilmer has plenty of ideas, none of which has ever come to fruition. Warren has plans, and there is a difference. Details matter. Moreover, Wilmer does not own the ideas, he may have espoused them for a long time, but so have others. The sooner he drops below 10% and stays there the better.

  9. 9
    Betty Cracker says:

    @The Dangerman: I’ve been extremely skeptical of that claim, but stuff like this really does make me wonder.

  10. 10
    trollhattan says:

    Where’s my “This fuckin’ guy” tag?

    This fuckin’ guy. What has he accomplished as a senator? Buhler? Anybody?

  11. 11
    ET says:

    I would think that corporations would love Medicare for all because they could slowly or not so slowly, get rid of their insurance to employees. I think corporations would have other reasons for an anybody but Bernie decision.

  12. 12
    germy says:

    They’re walking that tweet back.

    FWIW, Sanders campaign tells me this tweet was about centrist Democrats like Third Way (which is quoted in the piece below)—and not intended at Warren. https://t.co/jajmXRrzZ5— Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) June 19, 2019

  13. 13
    The Moar You Know says:

    I’ve never understood why Wilmer is allowed to run as a Democrat at all.

    @mad citizen: Can’t stop anyone from running as whatever they want. I could run as a Republican. I’ve thought of doing that: as Trump supposedly said, they are suckers who will believe anything.

    “Yeah, I was a lifelong Democrat and then they elected Obama. I just want my country back, y’know?” BAM. Salary, full healthcare and pension for life, and free office space. Don’t tell me I couldn’t win just by saying that. They’d be lining up to empty their pockets. As Trump already figured out.

    But my original point: you can’t stop anyone from running as a member of a particular party, or joining that party out of convenience. What you CAN do is give them no money or media, and that’s where the Dems have fallen down hard WRT Wilmer. He should not be in the debates, but there’s enough idiot Dems who buy what he’s selling to insure that we can’t give him the boot without serious consequences. And Wilmer deciding not to caucus with the Dems would be pretty serious. We need every Senate vote we can get.

  14. 14
    SFAW says:

    I don’t have nearly as much hate for Joe Biden as some of my fellow jackals — although his Eastland stupidity is somewhat of a “WTAF?” moment for me — but I’m wondering if the solution is to have the two oldest guys in the race get locked in a room, and told neither can leave until his opponent is “not pining, he’s passed on.” No guns allowed, but baseball bats are OK. We’ll see if the guy from Brooklyn is as tough as Brooklynites are supposed to be. [NB: Brooklynites of the olden days, not the latter-day yuppies (whatever they’re called now).]

  15. 15
    trollhattan says:

    Programming note: As a productivity enhancer I must decide between Japan-England and Scotland-Argentina to squint at on my tiny phone. Which colored dots will be more fun to watch?

    Leaning towards the first. Both @ noon, PT.

  16. 16
    Jeffro says:

    How do we start a “Let’s Just Lop Off the Bottom 15 Candidates” movement here? (I should probably start by calling it something better than ‘LJLOTB15C’)

    Because everyone polling at 1-2% really oughta get the hint. This is at most an 8-candidate race (more like 5-6). Fill out your cabinet post preferences on the Scan-tron sheet, Bottom 15, and then just drop the sheet in the box by the door. Thanks for stopping by!

  17. 17
    Betty Cracker says:

    @germy: Yeah, because they got blasted to hell and back on Twitter.

  18. 18
    SFAW says:

    @trollhattan:

    What has he accomplished as a senator?

    Helped get Shitgibbon elected?

  19. 19
    Libraryguy says:

    And this from Sanders is in response to a frigging article in Politico!

    Seriously, if you’re attacking Dems based on click-bait from Politico (or The Hill), how are you different from DJT? And how mindlessly reactive do you have to be to take anything they say seriously?

  20. 20
    rikyrah says:

    Being a graduate of @HowardU and a proud member of @akasorority1908 changed my life. Today, I’m excited to announce we’ve launched a national program to mobilize HBCU and Black fraternity and sorority members with our campaign. #ForThePeople pic.twitter.com/vY1oz7ihpj

    — Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 19, 2019

  21. 21
    trollhattan says:

    @germy:
    “That thing that I said, I didn’t really say that and I may or may not say something else about that at some other time.”

    I want him gone.

  22. 22
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @SFAW: I endorse, though I suspect it would just be that thing where Biden laughed and put a hand on Sanders’s head while Wilmer furiously windmilled at him at and bellowed, “Why, you! I oughta… I’ll kill you a million times!”

  23. 23
    Eljai says:

    I LOVE Elizabeth Warren, but I’m skeptical of that Politico article that quotes Third Way bullpuckey. On the other hand, Sanders was foolish enough to take the bait. Ain’t got time for that kind of dumbfuckery this election cycle.

  24. 24
    Chyron HR says:

    @germy:

    FWIW, when Bernie led his followers in a deranged chant of “FUCK HILLARY!” he was complimenting her on remaining sexually active into her golden years.

  25. 25
    Libraryguy says:

    @germy: Would have been a lot easier if they had referenced Third Way to begin with….

  26. 26
    trollhattan says:

    @SFAW:
    There is that. “Thanks, maaaan.”

  27. 27
    SFAW says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    Has Bernie become a Democrat? I missed that, I guess I should pay more attention to the news.

  28. 28
    Jeffro says:

    @germy: that’s dumb (not that I want him to be successful) – what does he think, he’ll slowly woo over Warren supporters by pretending it’s just him and Biden in the race? Win over the rest of the Dem primary voters with his charming personality?

  29. 29
    rikyrah says:

    This fucking guy:

    BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

  30. 30
    germy says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Centrism Fan Acct 🔹

    “We need a candidate. who’s been honest about their heritage all along. We can’t afford a weak candidate like *makes stereotype NA war cry motion*.

    10 min. later

    “The Bernie camp tells me that this was a general pt & not aimed at any specific candidate”

  31. 31

    @SFAW: I bet that no Brooklynite is a match for the girl from Mumbai. Although I have probably gone soft in my years in New England.

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    @SFAW:

    but I’m wondering if the solution is to have the two oldest guys in the race get locked in a room, and told neither can leave until his opponent is “not pining, he’s passed on.”

    Fixed

  33. 33
    germy says:

    The cat is out of the bag. Bernie Sanders is a conspiracy theorist who entertains and amplifies the paranoid delusions of his cult following. https://t.co/eZcNReHDXQ— Ragnarok Lobster (@eclecticbrotha) June 19, 2019

  34. 34
    Baud says:

    @germy:

    I doubly hate him for making me cheer the Third Way.

  35. 35
    SFAW says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    “Why, you! I oughta… I’ll kill you a million times!”

    Where I grew up, I think it was “I’ll murdelize ya!”

    Be that as it may: if you recall, I included baseball bats. That negates the “reach” factor. And, although I’m a Louisville Slugger kind-of-guy, I think aluminum would be better suited (because they’d be less likely to break prematurely).

  36. 36
    gsp says:

    Strange, I don’t have the same visceral response as most of you. For me he is perhaps the most consistent politician I’ve ever seen and has been on the right side of history on all important issues. I’m not sure I can say that about too many others.

  37. 37
    SFAW says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I bet that no Brooklynite is a match for the girl from Mumbai.

    Maybe no current Brooklynite, but “back in the day”? Sorry, no.

  38. 38

    Why is this a surprise, did you guys not watch BS in 2016? He tried to sandbag HRC at every turn. He is not worth crawling over broken glass for.

  39. 39
    artem1s says:

    Wilmer’s fundraising must be running dry. He’s just pissed Biden is sucking in the big bucks. Attacking big business and government has always played well with glibertarians and Russian bots. Next tweet will be boasting how many $27 donations he pulled in a day.

    Kick him out of the debates. He’s not a Democrat.

  40. 40

    @SFAW: What did Brooklynites do back in the day? Also which day? Gangs of the NY days?
    Do you know how Mumbai got rich in the British days?
    Opium trade.

  41. 41
    jk says:

    @SFAW:

    I don’t have nearly as much hate for Joe Biden as some of my fellow jackals — although his Eastland stupidity is somewhat of a “WTAF?” moment for me

    I want clueless Uncle Joe swept away in the same flush as Bernie. They’re both unacceptable options. The longer dumb ass Biden stays in this race the more idiotic gaffes we’ll have to endure. If this dope gets the nomination, Republican oppo researchers will have a field digging up all the moronic statements he’s made through the decades.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Hopefully, we’ll never have to, but if it came to that, it wouldn’t be for him we would be crawling over broken glass for, but for Trump’s victims.

  43. 43
    germy says:

    Bernie IS the establishment. He’s just a regular politician like everybody else who managed to convince people in 2016 that he was at the helm of some political revolution, then went on book tour for 3 years before deciding the revolution was back on for 2020.

    He’s tiresome. https://t.co/5D4yPl2ZSn

    — Imani Gandy (@AngryBlackLady) June 19, 2019

  44. 44
    Chyron HR says:

    @gsp:

    This may surprise you, but “history” is an actual, objectively observable thing that exists separately from Bernie’s lies about being the leader of the civil rights and gay rights movements.

  45. 45
    SFAW says:

    @gsp:

    For me he is perhaps the most consistent politician I’ve ever seen and has been on the right side of history on all important issues

    Are you talking about Bernie? If so: it’s lovely that he’s “been on the right side of history on all important issues,” but that and five bucks will get you a Starbucks kiddie cup. When he actually accomplishes something (i.e., legislation), maybe I’ll revise my opinion. But “changing the conversation,” or whatever Bernie thinks he’s done, hasn’t really provided many tangible positive results.

  46. 46
    SFAW says:

    @germy:

    She seems angry.

  47. 47
    NotMax says:

    @jk

    Yup. What’s he gonna do with naked racism, compromise?

    “All right, you can have one slave, but no more.”

    //

  48. 48
    joel hanes says:

    @feebog:

    Wow. There’s a nym I remember that I haven’t seen much recently.

    Howdy!

  49. 49
    the Conster says:

    If Biden’s only contribution to this cycle is sinking Wilmer, I can live with that. I want Warren to stop with the nonsense about other candidates doing *fancy* fundraisers though. I don’t care who wants to fight fascism when money is flooding into the GOP, again.

  50. 50
    rikyrah says:

    Happy Birthday, Kay 😎🤗💐🍧🎉🎈🐢🎂🥂

  51. 51
    Ohio Mom says:

    @ET: Oh, I agree that corporations are definitely looking forward to getting out of paying for their employees’ health coverage but I suspect the model they’re aiming for is similar to the one they used to get out of paying for pensions: make each employee take care of it by themself, in a controlled and limited private market.

    I have no doubt that corporations get various forms of kickbacks from the companies they force their employees to use for their 401ks, and that they’ll figure out something along those lines for health coverage.

    Medicare for All sounds like corporations would end up paying more taxes, and they are allergic to that.

    Medicare for All would also give employees a bit more (albeit indirect) autonomy and agency since Medicare is a government program and we all elect the people who are ultimately responsible for Medicare’s administration. Corporations are also allergic to anything that makes their employees less beholden to him. They like us insecure.

  52. 52
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SFAW: they’re called “hipsters”

  53. 53

    @Baud: I am convinced that he will be worse for Ds than T has been. He will be inept and his policies will fail. MSM won’t give him the cover that it gives T and his party. If he becomes the nominee and wins the presidency. It will kill brand D for a generation if not more.

  54. 54
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Ohio Mom: companies use benefits as a retention tool as well. If everyone has health insurance regardless of employment, that’s one less incentive to stay at a job you hate.

  55. 55
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @schrodingers_cat: A hypothetical Bernie/(who the fuck would agree to be his running mate? can you imagine?) ticket would also, I suspect, set records for negative coat tails

  56. 56
    rikyrah says:

    Ta-Nehisi Coates dismantles Mitch McConnell’s excuse for opposing reparations on live TV
    “For a century after the Civil War, black people were subjected to a relentless campaign of terror, a campaign that extended well into the lifetime of Mitch McConnell.”
    ADAM PECK
    JUN 19, 2019, 2:19 PM

    On Wednesday, the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties Committee held a hearing on the issue of slavery reparations, the first time in over a decade members of Congress formally broached the subject.

    Among those invited to testify before the committee was Ta-Nehisi Coates, the author, journalist, and academic whose 2014 essay in The Atlantic outlined the case in favor of reparations and reignited a national conversation on the matter.

    One day before the hearing, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) said he would oppose any effort to pursue reparations by Congress, and suggested black Americans should be thankful because Barack Obama was president.

    “I don’t think reparations for something that happened 150 years ago for whom none of us currently living are responsible is a good idea,” he told reporters on Tuesday.

    ……………………..

    “For a century after the Civil War, black people were subjected to a relentless campaign of terror, a campaign that extended well into the lifetime of Mitch McConnell,” said Coates.

    “We grant that Mr. McConnell was not alive for Appomattox,” said Coates. “But he was alive for the electrocution of George Stinney. He was alive for the blinding of Isaac Woodard…He was alive for the redlining of Chicago, and the looting of black homeowners of some four billion dollars. Victims of that plunder are very much alive today. I’m sure they would love a word with the majority leader.”

  57. 57
    SFAW says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I didn’t realize you were involved in the opium trade, I thought you were a lot younger than that.

  58. 58
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @gsp:

    has been on the right side of history on all important issues.

    Please list his major political/legislative accomplishments. Take your time.

  59. 59

    Dear Bernie Sanders:

    Maybe the reason most Democrats don’t like you is that you’re an egomaniacal sonofabitch who is NOT A TEAM PLAYER.

    I don’t even think you’re a dues-paying member of the party, you lazy deadbeat!

  60. 60

    @SFAW: You funny. I was doing a hypothetical match up between old-timey Brooklynite with an old timey Mumbaikar.
    Seriously one of the richest philanthropists of yore from Mumbai, Jeejeebhoi Jamshedshee made all his profits from the opium trade. Many old educational institutions still bear his. JJ School of Arts, Kipling’s father taught, JJ hospital etc.

  61. 61
    chopper says:

    “anybody but Bernie.”

    but of course they are. mostly as you’re a self-aggrandizing fucksmeller who hasn’t met a person he hasn’t shit all over in service of your ginormous ego. fuck you, bernie.

  62. 62
    Mike in NC says:

    Trump is Putin’s #1 favorite asset, and Bernie Sanders is his #2.

  63. 63
    trollhattan says:

    Ooh, Japan’s keeper makes a BIG error.

  64. 64
    the Conster says:

    @Mike in NC:

    My working theory is that he’s running to ratfuck Dems again as a quid pro quo for Trump’s DOJ letting Jane Sanders off the hook for bank fraud. Jeff Weaver announced that the FBI *closed* the investigation the same week as the Blue Wave, and that’s never been confirmed in any other reporting. I don’t believe in that kind of coincidence.

  65. 65

    @Gin & Tonic:

    He kept Hillary from getting 68 million voters and likely winning FL, PA, MI, and WI.

  66. 66
    Immanentize says:

    @trollhattan:
    Better in the original language of Darth Vader:

    I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I’m not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

  67. 67
    chopper says:

    @Chyron HR:

    lawyer: well what about that tattoo on your chest? doesn’t it say “die bart die”?
    sideshow bob: no, that’s german. for “the bart. the.”

  68. 68

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Some crackpot with a rose in their Twitter handle.
    @Mike in NC: Indeed.

  69. 69
    Immanentize says:

    @gsp:

    on the right side of history on all important issues.

    Gun control leaps to mind. As does Daniel Ortega who is a bad man.

  70. 70
    SFAW says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    I was doing a hypothetical match up between old-timey Brooklynite with an old timey Mumbaikar.

    Well, when you said “the girl from Mumbai,” I surmised — perhaps incorrectly — that you were speaking of yourself. [I expect you’ve mentioned your original home city/area in the past, but I can’t recall.]

    Also: thanks for the language lesson, “Mumbaikar” was an unfamiliar term to me.

  71. 71

    @Immanentize: And love for all things Soviet.

    ETA: You can also add opposition to immigration to that list.

  72. 72

    @Steve in the ATL:

    companies use benefits as a retention tool as well.

    This. Though with health insurance that retention is much more negative than positive; employees are more terrified of losing coverage than they are enticed by very generous plans.

  73. 73
    the Conster says:

    @gsp:

    His gun votes are disqualifying, and that’s before we even get to his rape fantasy essays and his creepy obsession with young girls sexual activity. Oh, and he was a deadbeat dad who didn’t vote until he was 40, and then for himself.

  74. 74
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Possibly. But if God is dead and he becomes the nominee, I’m not playing the typical progressive game of helping Republicans win in the hopes that it will play dividends down the line.

  75. 75

    @Baud: That’s why we must defeat him in the primaries.

  76. 76
    Chetan Murthy says:

    @gsp: What? Bernie “concentration camps at the border for asylum-seekers” has been on the right side of history? Uh, no. Not even on the same continent as the right side.

  77. 77
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    To be fair, Mueller showed that Russia loved him back.

  78. 78
    NotMax says:

    @schrodingers_cat
    It ‘soitanly’ weren’t all song and dance.

    ;)

  79. 79

    @SFAW: I was doing both. Especially when you introduced old-time tough Brooklynites. NYC is the one city that reminds me the most of Mumbai. Other cities are too nice in comparison, if you know what I mean.

  80. 80
    SFAW says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    they’re called “hipsters”

    So that’s where Jacob Wohl goes to find his coffee bars?

  81. 81
    Chyron HR says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    There! Proof, PROOF that Democrats are conspiring to rig the primaries against Bernie by voting for other candidates!

  82. 82
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    .

    EDIT: No idea what just happened 🤔

  83. 83
    NotMax says:

    @SFAW

    I didn’t realize you were involved in the opium trade,

    The classics never go out of style.

    :)

  84. 84
    trollhattan says:

    Rachel Daly doing Rachel Daly things. Good work by Japan’s keeper.

  85. 85
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Baud: Exactly. Sanders might very well make an ineffective president and damage the Democratic Party brand. But he wouldn’t cage children, terrorize immigrant communities, encourage police brutality, violate the emoluments clause every day, authorize discrimination against LGBTQ people, gin up mobs against the press, authorize drilling on federal lands, roll back fuel efficiency standards, appoint polluters to run the EPA, etc., etc., etc. Please sweet Jeebus let this hypothetical NOT come to pass, but if it’s Sanders vs. Trump, goddamned right I’ll crawl over broken glass to vote for Sanders.

  86. 86
    trollhattan says:

    @NotMax:
    “Why are you chanting ‘opium, opium, opium’?”
    “I’m not, I’m changing ‘OPM, OPM’. Stands for other people’s money.”

    Coming to a real estate investment seminar near you.

  87. 87
    BobbyK says:

    And fuck all you fucking Bernie haters on this web site. He ALONE pulled the Democratic Party to the left – kicking and screaming the entire way. Bernie wants to win the primary, the SAME as the rest of ’em. Once the primary starts those biden “supporters” are going to disappear as the Democratic primary voters won’t be voting for him.

  88. 88
    trollhattan says:

    @BobbyK:
    He sounds like quite this fella, this imaginary guy of yours.

  89. 89
    Kay says:

    @rikyrah:

    Thanks. We’re having ice cream cake. Which I have to pick up at the Dairy Queen, because I am the cake-getter. How sad, right? I have to ask them to decorate it! I’m going to pretend it’s for someone else so they don’t talk about me after I leave.

  90. 90
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    No guns allowed, but baseball bats are OK.

    After that horrific story that broke yesterday about Patrick Shanahan’s son, I’m pretty sure baseball bats aren’t OK either :-(

  91. 91
    Miss Bianca says:

    @rikyrah: Y’know, my heart’s really with Warren first, but I’m keeping my eye on Harris. If she can mobilize African-American voters – and it looks like she certainly has a game plan for doing that -she is going to win the nomination. Which would, ftr, also be just fine with me!

  92. 92

    @Kay: Happy Birthday, Balloon Juice Kautilya. Ice-cream cake sounds like fun. I made Mango Kulfi yesterday. Not bad for a first attempt.

  93. 93
    Chyron HR says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    authorize discrimination against LGBTQ people

    I bet he would if it was the trade-off for getting Medicare for All Real Americans passed.

  94. 94
    Ladyraxterinok says:

    @the Conster: Verrry interrresting!

  95. 95
    NotMax says:

    @Kay

    Just occurred to me that with commenters named Jay and Kay, we’ve got a whole Men in Black thing goin’ on here.

    :)

  96. 96
    Aleta says:

    @Kay:
    🎶 Happy Birthday 🕯

  97. 97
    Suzy says:

    Well, the mask is off. What his emotional reaction shows is that he views himself as “The Savior” of the working class. The ONLY one.

    Give a man power, and he shows his true self.
    Illustration: 2016 campaign. When he began to think he had a chance, he abandoned his pledge of not attacking Hillary and treated her like sh***. He continued to weaken her even after it was mathematically possible for him to get the nomination. I’ll NEVER forget the continuous booing from some of his supporters, at the national convention. As their leader, he was responsible for that. His endorsement was half-hearted and it showed.

    Strip power for a man, and he shows his true self.
    Illustration: right now. He’s losing votes to Elisabeth Warren and he is pissed.

    As for Elisabeth Warren, I hope she keeps he ego in check. I’m concerned a bit.

  98. 98
    Chyron HR says:

    @BobbyK:

    Goddamn, at least last time you guys managed to wait until Bernie was actually losing primaries before you started screaming obscenities at Democrats 24/7 in lieu of campaigning.

  99. 99
    Brachiator says:

    @BobbyK:

    And fuck all you fucking Bernie haters on this web site. He ALONE pulled the Democratic Party to the left

    This might be impressive if it were true. And maybe if Bernie was a member of the Democratic Party.

  100. 100
    James E Powell says:

    @BobbyK:

    Does Sanders understand how many people despise him because they believe he helped put Trump in the White House? Do his followers?

    Sanders’s response to this is to ignore it. His followers’ responses range from attacks on Hillary Clinton to FU!

    You can argue that it’s factually inaccurate. You can argue that it’s not fair. But you can’t seriously believe that it doesn’t matter.

  101. 101
    Scotian says:

    Warren is the reality that Sanders claims to be. He espouses lofty rhetorical verbiage for noble aims and goals, yet when pressed has ZERO actual ideas, let alone actual planning for making it go from imagination and rhetoric to reality.

    Warren has all the visionary aspects of Sanders, her crucial difference is she not only knows what she wants and articulates it well, she also knows how to turn it into reality. THAT, more than anything else shows the vapidity of Sanders and the substantial reality that is Warren. No wonder she is overtaking him, and no wonder why team Sanders finds her such a threat.

    She is

  102. 102
    Kay says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Thanks. The ladies at the courthouse got me sour patch kids which I’m embarrassed that I must have told them I love. Apparently I just babble all kinds of things at them. They’re such good listeners, to remember that. Unless I say it a lot. I hope not.

  103. 103
    Ruckus says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    I used to think lonely old fart but a number of years ago came to the same conclusion, he is an ego driven narcissistic rat fucker. His way is the only way. He is not as narcissistic as drumpf for sure but he far from the normal.

  104. 104
    The Moar You Know says:

    @BaghdadBobbyK: More like BaghdadBobbyK amirite?

  105. 105
    tobie says:

    @Jeffro: I’m willing to wait for the first debate before recommending that anyone drop out but after that the field should narrow. But I’d also like pollsters to up their game. Monmouth’s latest poll was nationwide and yet the sample was limited to 306 voters. I gather only 18 people were polled in NY. This strikes me — an admitted non-expert — as ridiculously small.

  106. 106
    the Conster says:

    @BobbyK:

    What did he do? Truman wanted universal health care and every social program in the US was passed by Democrats. Where was Bernie Sanders when Joe Lieberman was threatening to filibuster the whole ACA over the public option being included? What legislation did he champion that accomplished anything progressive? He championed a bill to dump nuclear waste on poor Latinos in Texas – is that what you were thinking of?

  107. 107

    @Chyron HR: His Senate voting record is fairly anti-immigrant. He was an ally of the anti-immigrant wing in the senate, comprised of Grassley and Sessions. Don’t forget that Miller was Sessions aide before working for T admin.
    Beto and Castro have have some serious policy proposals on immigration not BS.

  108. 108
    SFAW says:

    @BobbyK:

    kicking and screaming the entire way.

    Well, I wouldn’t say Bernie was kicking and screaming the ENTIRE time. He might also have been stamping his little feetsies, not unlike Asset #1. But, you’re right, he and his Bern-or-Bust-ers threw an extended temper tantrum because neoliberal shill and Trump clone Hillary Clinton beat him like a drum during the primaries. Why did she have to be so MEAN, right?

  109. 109
    trollhattan says:

    @Scotian:
    Warren essentially gave us CFPB and then when freaked out Republicans refused to allow her to run it (and boy, what a crazy idea that would have been) she takes off the sting of defeat by running for senate. And winning.

    Anybody looking for a leader with a track record of setting and achieving goals might give her a look.

  110. 110
    Kay says:

    Donald J. Trump
    ‏Verified account
    @realDonaldTrump
    Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
    More
    If I didn’t have the Phony Witch Hunt going on for 3 years, and if the Fake News Media and their partner in Crime, the Democrats, would have played it straight, I would be way up in the Polls right now – with our Economy, winning by 20 points. But I’m winning anyway!

    Good sign that the big loudmouth is making excuses. You know they read polls all day long, desperately searching for a good one to bring him so he doesn’t scream obscenities at them.

  111. 111
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Scotian:

    I’ve been thinking about you and holding you in the light. Very glad you’re commenting.

  112. 112
    chopper says:

    @BobbyK:

    this is like that “reagan defeated communism” bullshit isn’t it.

  113. 113
    Ruckus says:

    @The Moar You Know:
    The concept of course is that anyone can be a democrat, we welcome everyone. Problem is of course that a way too large segment of the population has let their batshit/bullshit flag represent them and they really don’t fit in to the party.

  114. 114
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Kay:

    Unless I say it a lot. I hope not.

    LOL!

    🎂🍾🥂🎁

  115. 115
    ruemara says:

    @gsp: lol

    @BobbyK: double lol. We were more left than him to begin with.

  116. 116
    SFAW says:

    @NotMax:

    Just occurred to me that with commenters named Jay and Kay, we’ve got a whole Men in Black thing goin’ on here

    I, for one, will be surprised if they get Tommy Lee Jones to play our own Kay in her biopic.

  117. 117
    Hob says:

    Just to belabor the obvious: that Politico story, by way of explaining what “the Democratic establishment” thinks, quoted four people. None of them was an elected official, an employee of an elected official or of a government agency, or an employee of the Democratic Party. Unless it’s some clever meta-commentary where Politico is commenting on its own decision to push this point of view, i.e. calling itself “the Democratic establishment”, this is thin even by their standards.

  118. 118
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: That does seem like a minuscule sample.

  119. 119
    Brachiator says:

    @Baud:

    but I’m wondering if the solution is to have the two oldest guys in the race get locked in a room

    We could probably just leave it at this.

  120. 120
    kindness says:

    I don’t hate Bernie. Honestly I don’t really care about Bernie other than I think he’s a crank. BernieBros on the other hand seem to think that driving Democrats to vote for Trump is a win. Them I can’t stand. And yea, the tweets in that thread are what we see daily. It’s become clear to me that many BernieBros are women haters.

  121. 121
    The Moar You Know says:

    But I’m winning anyway!

    @Kay: Closest we will ever see to him admitting that he’s getting pasted.

    I have concerns about the transfer of power in 2021. I think he may be…difficult.

    That is of course assuming he loses. I don’t take that as a given, even with the polls. There’s a lot of dumb, shitty people in this country. Turns out more than I thought.

  122. 122
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Kay: I bet a week doesn’t go by that the DQ staff isn’t decorating a cake honoring the wife/mother standing in front of them with the credit card in her hand, ready to swipe. They are going to peg you immediately.

    Happy Birthday and many more to you! This place wouldn’t be the same without you.

  123. 123
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Mike in NC:

    p. 23 Mueller report: “Main idea: Use any opportunity to criticize Hillary [Clinton] and the rest (except Sanders and Trump — we support them).” GRU-created troll farm instructions

  124. 124
    SFAW says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Happy Birthday and many more to you! This place wouldn’t be the same without you.

    Seconded, thirded, fourthed, fifthed …..

    As far as I’m concerned “this place” includes Ohio. Thanks for all that you’ve done and continue to do, Kay!

  125. 125
    Ruckus says:

    @SFAW:
    Also aluminum bats make a more pleasing sound when they hit a skull.

  126. 126
    Chyron HR says:

    @kindness:

    I don’t hate Bernie […] BernieBros on the other hand

    If only the tsar knew!

  127. 127
    Cacti says:

    Someone made the point in an earlier thread that for all of the pissing and moaning the Wilmerites did about Hillary “clearing the field”, Wilmer benefitted enormously from being the default “not Hillary” candidate.

    Turns out campaigning is a bit tougher when it isn’t a two person race. Boo hoo hoo.

  128. 128
    lamh36 says:

    @rikyrah:

    Behold: Ta-Nehisi Coates’ entire opening statement at the reparations hearing in Congress today.

    Powerful stuff.

    https://twitter.com/yamiche/status/1141427683764723712?s=21

  129. 129
    Ruckus says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Now if you had to crawl over broken glass to get away from him……

  130. 130
    Brachiator says:

    @tobie:

    But I’d also like pollsters to up their game. Monmouth’s latest poll was nationwide and yet the sample was limited to 306 voters. I gather only 18 people were polled in NY. This strikes me — an admitted non-expert — as ridiculously small.

    This is not necessarily a problem. This is part of what sampling is all about.

    A larger problem is fewer people having land lines or being willing to participate in polls at all.

    I could throw in the usual cautions about the use and misuse of polls by the general public, but polling is like astrology. Wrong but easy to talk about.

  131. 131
    Gravenstone says:

    @The Dangerman: I think this is pure Cult of Bernie in action. Any attempts to act as a spoiler to benefit Trump is purely coincidental. He’s only lashing out at those he perceives as a threat – to himself.

  132. 132
    Yutsano says:

    @Brachiator: So much to parse in comment from nym we’ve barely seen before. So little time.

    At least for me. But that’s only because I have appointments in my office that require my attention.

  133. 133
    Brachiator says:

    @kindness:

    I don’t hate Bernie. Honestly I don’t really care about Bernie other than I think he’s a crank. BernieBros on the other hand seem to think that driving Democrats to vote for Trump is a win. Them I can’t stand. And yea, the tweets in that thread are what we see daily. It’s become clear to me that many BernieBros are women haters.

    I endorse this. Totally.

  134. 134
    The Moar You Know says:

    This is not necessarily a problem. This is part of what sampling is all about.

    @Brachiator: Was pretty much what I majored in, back in college. Obviously the more respondents you have, the more certainty you have in your results, but this doesn’t strike me as being grossly inadequate.

    A larger problem is fewer people having land lines or being willing to participate in polls at all.

    It’s a problem. And it doesn’t have to be, but is, because people are very reluctant to give their race, income, party affiliation, age and all that data that pollsters NEED to be able to sample accurately. Sad because they certainly haven’t been reluctant to give it to Facebook, etc, who are actively using that data to fuck them over daily.

    Go figure.

    ETA: I guarantee that Facebook already knows who the winner of the 2020 race will be. State by state. Their numbers will be off by such a small margin it’s not even worth discussing.

  135. 135
    Gravenstone says:

    @SFAW:

    because they’d be less likely to break prematurely

    But with a nice sharp shard of hardened wood in hand, you can switch to stabbing rather than simply bludgeoning.

  136. 136
    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony says:

    @gsp:

    For me he is perhaps the most consistent politician I’ve ever seen…

    If you mean, most consistently ineffective, then sure.

  137. 137
    lamh36 says:

    Outside the Oval Office, I kept a painting of a small crowd huddled around a pocketwatch, waiting for the moment the Emancipation Proclamation took effect. On Juneteenth, we celebrate the anniversary of that news – freedom – reaching slaves in Texas. And something more:

    On Juneteenth, we celebrate our capacity to make real the promise of our founding, that thing inside each of us that says America is not yet finished, that compels all of us to fight for justice and equality until this country we love more closely aligns with our highest ideals.

    https://twitter.com/barackobama/status/1141390520956194816?s=21

  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    @Steve in the ATL:
    Always amazed me that a company can’t see that making a place to work better for the employees is cheap compared to having to replace them regularly. But then I remember that phrase, Must Be Asshole, people who can only tell time by the quarter.

  139. 139

    @James E Powell: He’s as unable as Trump is to expand his voting bloc. Why would any HRC voter vote for him this time?

  140. 140

    Bernie’s best shot at winning the primary is a Biden flop followed by an intra-party war, with him taking a plurality to a brokered convention. He knows this, and it’s his strategy, and this is what it looks like.

  141. 141
    kindness says:

    @lamh36: I saw a reparations thread going over at LG&M today. It isn’t going well. Seems as if reparations is an issue that not all liberals agree on. I do not think that in 2020 Democrats should lead with Reparations as an issue. But then again, I don’t support race based solutions. i prefer economically based solutions.

  142. 142
    lamh36 says:

    The best thing you’ll see all day guys I promise you 😂😂😂

    We came, we dodged, we slayed.

    Dodgeball will never be the same—thanks for hosting @latelateshow! youtu.be/6yRVdV3b8F0
    pic.twitter.com/XM8GpED8Xf

    https://twitter.com/michelleobama/status/1141330541201039360?s=21

  143. 143
    Chyron HR says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Why would any HRC voter vote for him this time?

    It depends, does God send another bird down to mark him as the chosen one?

  144. 144
    Aleta says:

    That cat would rather crouch inside the bag than cooperate and give credit.

  145. 145
    Ruckus says:

    @trollhattan:
    Must be difficult to see reality with that much stardust in your way – and Bobby has just given us proof.

  146. 146
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Major Major Major Major: That was my big worry for a while, then I got distracted and forgot it. Thanks for reminding me…

  147. 147
    SFAW says:

    @Ruckus:

    Also aluminum bats make a more pleasing sound when they hit a skull.

    Not sure I want to know how you know this.

  148. 148
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @feebog: I have this argument with my niece. She likes his ideas. Well, say I, you have the same ideas. How will you put them in practice? I wouldn’t know how to, says she. Neither does he, say I .

  149. 149
    Panurge says:

    @SFAW:

    Not yet, anyway, what with Don Trump in office. But that has to happen first before anything else can. These things take much more time and effort than anyone wants, and we just have to accept that, put our shoulders to the wheel, and celebrate each little success as a step forward.

  150. 150
    lamh36 says:

    @kindness:No need to worry about it being a part of the 2020 discussion it won’t be.

    when it comes to uncomfortable discussions about race in America, it is the one subject that makes white people across the spectrum, Dem to Conserv so uncomfortable most a presidential candidates don’t bring it up.

    Doesn’t mean those conversations shouldn’t happen

  151. 151
    tobie says:

    @Brachiator: Polling’s an art and it’s gotten very complicated in the digital age. I don’t envy any of the number crunchers in the business.

  152. 152
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Panurge:
    Um, you are aware that Sanders has been in elective office for 30+ years, correct? That’s been more than enough time to have some kind of legislative achievement. His record shows that he’s a lightweight at best and an anti-immigrant, gun industry supporting egomaniac at worst

  153. 153
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Huh. I figured it was just Sirota getting out over his skis, but you’re probably right.

  154. 154
    Citizen Alan says:

    @BobbyK:

    He ALONE pulled the Democratic Party to the left – kicking and screaming the entire way.

    Everything that Bernie ever claimed to stand for has been put out of our reach for generations, in large part because his monumental ego prevented him from every supporting anyone who wasn’t him.

  155. 155
    Ruckus says:

    @tobie:
    That’s .001 percent of the population. Not a very good sample. It is shit from a statistical view.

  156. 156
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @trollhattan: He has the worst personal qualities of both Trump and Biden.
    * I’m fond of Biden but he’s the product of another age and WAY too nostalgic for it.

  157. 157

    Trump and the Rs are in the process of doing deep, wide damage to the country. Whoever comes after them will face a gigantic challenge. IMHO, neither Sanders nor Biden is up to it. I think Warren and Harris are our best options, but I feel guilty for wishing it on them

  158. 158
    Ruckus says:

    @SFAW:
    Ya just gotta take my word.

  159. 159
    Kent says:

    @mad citizen:

    I’ve never understood why Wilmer is allowed to run as a Democrat at all. Probably to much to hope he loses ground next week post-debate, but here’s hoping. More likely Biden falls after looking out of touch. Sanders has too much of a cult following.

    Because the counter-narrative where he is not allowed to run would be worse. You’d have Bernie on the Democratic Socialist ticket running as the 2020 version of Ralph Nader and guaranteeing the election for Trump.

    I don’t object to having him in the primary because the alternative would be worse. And I mostly trust Democrats to do the right thing when it comes to picking their nominee. They usually do.

  160. 160
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Ruckus:
    From what I understand, samples are supposed to be representative of a given population to be accurate. I admit I could be missing something tho

  161. 161
    matt says:

    While it is weird to watch Sanders campaigning like a Republican in a Democratic primary, maybe the other candidates can learn something from facing this kind of opposition.

  162. 162

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: this is usually accomplished by weighting, not sampling, since the odds of getting a representative sample on the line are pretty low.

  163. 163
    matt says:

    @The Moar You Know: Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when Lyndon Fuckin’ Larouche ran as a Democrat.

  164. 164

    @Ruckus:

    That’s .001 percent of the population. Not a very good sample. It is shit from a statistical view.

    Are the huge 5,000-person polls, which have proven quite accurate over the years, more to your liking, even though they’re .01%?

  165. 165
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: I think Biden could be up to it IF we had both Houses and they led the way. That’s a very big IF of course.

    Bernie I don’t trust as far as I could throw anything over five pounds (I’m a weakling).

  166. 166
    FlipYrWhig says:

    He’s got brass balls for a guy who’s been stuck at 15% for months upon months. Maybe THE ESTABLISHMENT isn’t keeping him down, he’s keeping himself down, on account of being unable to connect with people this time around, on account of being an abrasive suckbag with aggressively obnoxious thin-skinned followers.

  167. 167
    Cacti says:

    But then again, I don’t support race based solutions. i prefer economically based solutions

    So, you’re a class reductionist?

  168. 168
    tobie says:

    The Post and TPM have slightly dueling interpretations of a Fed Judge’s decision to re-hear whether the Trump administration’s decision to include a citizenship question was racially discriminatory based on new evidence. Post hedges its bets — the Judge may reconsider the ruling. TPM says the judge will reconsider it. Whatever the case — the new evidence has led the judge to re-open the hearing on this questions. This is good news.

  169. 169
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: I’m confused about how that case bears on the expected SCOTUS ruling or vice versa. Got any links handy that explain that? Thanks!

  170. 170
    zhena gogolia says:

    @lamh36:

    Very cute!

  171. 171
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @lamh36: That was really funny. Thanks for posting it.

  172. 172
    Steve in the ATL says:

    Jeez. There must have been a sale today at Trolls R Us.

  173. 173
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Thanks! It’s been a few years since college statistics

  174. 174
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Jeez. There must have been a sale today at Trolls R Us.

    But but but the primary was rigged against Wilmer by having 4 million more people vote for his opponent! /S

  175. 175
    NotMax says:

    @ mrmoshpotato
    Bernmites gnaw voraciously on could-a would-a.

  176. 176
    rikyrah says:

    Sherrilyn Ifill (@Sifill_LDF) Tweeted:
    Ta-Nehisi Coates: This is about citizenship. Tells us we are heirs to the nation’s “credits and its debits. If Thomas Jefferson matters, so does Sally Hemings.” #HR40 #ReparationsHearing https://t.co/7YLPL8JJHc https://twitter.com/Sifill_LDF/status/1141358674029502466?s=17

  177. 177
    TenguPhule says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    There must have been a sale today at Trolls R Us.

    Pretty sure they were bought up by a vulture fund which proceeded to strip them and dump the survivors here.

  178. 178

    @NotMax: And its’ now a never will, most likely. Biden has a commanding lead, and Warren is now ahead of him. I expect a surge too from Kamela and even Mayor Pete. And I think Bernie and others are now panicking. This is his last chance ever, and he knows it-and can’t deal with it. If Biden somehow lost the nomination, he would at least accept it, go on, and support the winner. Not Bernie.

  179. 179
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Steve in the ATL: the Bernie Bot Bat Signal seems to be in operation.

  180. 180
    joel hanes says:

    Warren has plans, and has demonstrated her ability to effect those plans through legislation. .

    Sanders has morally-motivated goal statements, but no plan to achieve them. Further, he doesn’t seem to have any ability to formulate a plan, nor even really to recognize that a plan is needed.

    She does. He postures.
    If elected, she will use the Presidency to accomplish things.
    If elected, he will be the President.

  181. 181
    cokane says:

    that sanders tweet has Sirota’s fingeprints all over it. The man really has hired some major league idiots on his campaign

  182. 182
    tobie says:

    @Betty Cracker: I wish I knew the answer to that question. It’s bugging me too. I’ll see what I can find online and post any interesting links tomorrow.

  183. 183
    cokane says:

    as others have said, it’s noticeable that Warren and even Biden have spend, afaik, zero time attacking other Democrats. positivity is ultimately what’s going to play to voters in the dem primary, that’s why obama > clinton, in the only really close race we’ve seen in a generation of primaries.

  184. 184
    Bobby Thomson says:

    Going ad hominem against the supporters of other candidates is a SUPERGENIUS strategy for the Iowa caucuses and I encourage Wilmer to continue boldly.

  185. 185
    SFAW says:

    @NotMax:

    Bernmites gnaw voraciously on could-a would-a.

    Not your best work, but not bad.

  186. 186
    Betty Cracker says:

    @tobie: Thanks! I’ll see what I can dig up too, and we can compare notes. :)

  187. 187

    @Kay: I love those too. Also Starburst sour candies. If you like sour stuff you will like stuff made from unripe green mangoes, kokum and tamarind.
    Also too, cranberries!

  188. 188
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @BobbyK: oh fuck the hell off, you ahistorical dumbass. We were there and you are so full of shit it’s oozing out your ears.

  189. 189
    debbie says:

    @mad citizen:

    He should not be allowed on the stage until he registers as a Democrat.

  190. 190
    debbie says:

    @Kay:

    Happy birthday, but you should not have to be getting your own freakin’ birthday cake.

  191. 191
    Ruckus says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Both of them are volunteering. Never turn down a great volunteer. Are they up to the challenge? I’d bet either one is. Doesn’t mean they will be successful, shit for brains has once again done his best to make a bad situation into a massive disaster.

  192. 192
    Ruckus says:

    @debbie:
    If I want cake, I have to get or make my own. Sometimes that’s just how it is, which doesn’t mean I’m disagreeing with you about Kay.

  193. 193
    J R in WV says:

    @Scotian:

    Warren is the reality that Sanders claims to be.

    Well said !!! Quoted for truth, also too.

  194. 194
    plato says:

    Trump Thanks Supporters Who Sacrificed Time, Money, Friends, Family, Morals, Religious Beliefs To Be Here Today https://t.co/dOhateVHSn pic.twitter.com/kOCaAahwOc— The Onion (@TheOnion) June 19, 2019

  195. 195
    J R in WV says:

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    This is true, as far as it goes. But the larger the sample is, the closer the sample identifies with the population as a whole. So, as the sample size increases, the margin of error shrinks, also.

    This is really important statistically. It was really hard for me back in the school daze in 1982-83, partly because it was taught by a Grad Asst who was just going by the book, didn’t quite understand the base rules himself.

    Still, I made Bs both semesters. Maths is hard for me. In Calc I made C C+ and B in the three 5 hour classes I took with math majors, which I was not one of.

  196. 196
    J R in WV says:

    @Scotian:

    Warren is the reality that Sanders claims WANTS to be.

    I thot about it again, and think this is better. Still, your thought inside the fix!

  197. 197
    Irony Abounds says:

    Bernie’s initials aren’t BS just because his name is Bernie Sanders. Really tired of him. My other question is who the fuck is supporting Williamson? Gabbard is horrible but I understand her getting some support from the same wackos that supported Jill Stein, but why some new age meta physical type, who, btw, ran for Congress as an independent and thus is another person using the Party on a rental basis.

  198. 198
    Brachiator says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    It’s a problem. And it doesn’t have to be, but is, because people are very reluctant to give their race, income, party affiliation, age and all that data that pollsters NEED to be able to sample accurately.

    Yep. People don’t trust pollsters or don’t want to be bothered or don’t want to spend time answering questions. Also, as people move to using cellphones, many don’t want to be bothered by spammy, intrusive calls. Bottom line, it’s tougher to build a good sample.

    Sad because they certainly haven’t been reluctant to give it to Facebook, etc, who are actively using that data to fuck them over daily.

    Go figure.

    This is not just a Facebook thing. The wide usage of the Internet makes data aggregation and data mining possible to a degree not previously possible. This creates possibilities for benign use as well as terrible abuse.

  199. 199
    Brachiator says:

    @SFAW:

    I think this also works:

    @NotMax:

    Bernmites gnaw voraciously on could-a wood

  200. 200
    Miss Bianca says:

    @lamh36: Doesn’t make me uncomfortable. I’m all for the reparations discussion, if only for the wing-nut head explosions.

  201. 201
    Mnemosyne says:

    @lamh36:

    IMO, I think that the more recent reparations advocates are making a good case by highlighting more recent issues like Jim Crow, redlining, etc because a lot of those actions are within living memory. You can point to how living people were affected and continue to be affected, which helps prevent anti-reparations folks from whining about how they’re being punished for actions of 200 years ago. No, they’re being asked to make reparations for the actions of their parents and grandparents that they PERSONALLY benefited from.

  202. 202
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Yeah. This is my thought too, and it’s the problem I have with Bernie. He’s trying to divide the party because it gives him a better shot, including things like this where he implies that even Warren is a corporate democrat.

    I see people eat this up, too. A friend of mine who was a BernieBro in 2016 thinks that Bernie is the wrong person for 2020 but is still absorbing this “All Dems but Bernie are corporate sellouts” messaging and it’s depressing him. In turn, he’s depressing our other friends, talking about (mostly fictional) infractions that show that all the Democrats are compromised, etc.

    Bernie’s best shot is to kneecap the party in general, harming everyone but his own campaign and counting on the rest of the party to fall in line. There’s no real backup plan for what happens if he loses – he’ll have made it much harder for the Democrats to do well, but he doesn’t seem to care much.

  203. 203
    Waynski says:

    @lamh36:

    when it comes to uncomfortable discussions about race in America, it is the one subject that makes white people across the spectrum, Dem to Conserv so uncomfortable most a presidential candidates don’t bring it up.

    What country do you live in? Conservatives won’t bring it up? Are you effing kidding me? Every time the reparations people bring it the fore you can envision the Republicans as Montgomery Burns rubbing their sinister collective hands together. The Rs bring it up even when there’s no Democrat even talking about it. They LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this issue.

    It’s terrible politics for us. A loser. It will NEVER happen. Logistically, it is impossible that it would even be possible with any level of accuracy. It would be abused giving Rs their latest incarnation of the “Cadillac driving welfare Queen,” making Ds look even worse. Would it be the right thing to do? Certainly, but it’s not possible. It would alienate many center left white people and most decidedly recent Asian immigrants. Drop it already. Ideas like this are like handing the Rs a loaded gun then begging them not to shoot you.

    Not to mention IANAL, but would it ever survive a court challenge?
    PS – It would never survive a court challenge.

  204. 204
    Kathleen says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I”m old enough to remember when some were chastised for whining about Bernie and/or refusing to get over what happened in 2016.

  205. 205
    Kathleen says:

    @Kay: Happy Birthday, Kay!

  206. 206
    MisterForkbeard says:

    @Waynski: I kind of like Harris’ approach to this. Basically, there are a LOT of people out there that have been historically screwed, and most are on the low-income side of the ladder. Helping low-income and low-wealth people through social programs, tax rebates and other programs will help the people that deserve reparations without singling them out.

    Solve the problem and harness the whole class-war against the middle and lower classes to do it.

  207. 207
    Brachiator says:

    @MisterForkbeard:

    This is my thought too, and it’s the problem I have with Bernie. He’s trying to divide the party because it gives him a better shot, including things like this where he implies that even Warren is a corporate democrat

    It’s stuff like this that makes me think that Wilmer is another Russian stooge.

    I think you are right that Bernie’s antics are an attempt to split the party, but I don’t see this helping him. But it certainly makes Trump happy.

  208. 208
    different-church-lady says:

    I said it repeatedly in 2016, and it remains true today: both Trump and Sanders play the politics of resentment. Trump plays it from the dark side, and Sanders plays it from the light side, but it’s still resentment as the primary motivator. Take resentment away and there’s either not a lot (Sanders) or nothing at all (Trump) left.

  209. 209
    Waynski says:

    @MisterForkbeard: I didn’t know that about Harris. Sounds reasonable to me too with a firm footing in reality. I didn’t mean by my comment that something shouldn’t be done to help. I only meant to say that it’s like hearing nails on a chalkboard to many people who would otherwise be our natural allies and it is political ammunition for the right to turn us into cannon fodder. We really need to stop stepping on rakes. Too much is at stake.

  210. 210
    the Conster says:

    @Ladyraxterinok:

    I’m going with this theory until it stops explaining what I’m seeing from him and his campaign.

  211. 211
    different-church-lady says:

    @gsp: “Greetings hatching.”

  212. 212

    @Kathleen: I remember it as well.

  213. 213
    different-church-lady says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    No idea what just happened

    I should just make that an auto-reply.

  214. 214
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    I’m shocked! I’m shocked!

    It’s so unlike Wilmer to smear a progressive.

  215. 215
    Richard Guhl says:

    @Waynski: Given that the present composition of the Supreme Court is hellbent on returning us to the Lochner era, would any progressive legislation survive its rulings?
    It’s worth noting that when the 13th Amendment was being adopted, the stated intent was not just the abolition of slavery, but also the removal of all the ‘badges’ of slavery, the stigma attached to it.
    One could argue that many federal, state and local government policies since Reconstruction actually reinforced those badges, particularly in housing, access to jobs, and education, and were therefore unconstitutional and demand recompense.

  216. 216
    burnspbesq says:

    @rikyrah:

    If Sen. Harris wins the thing, it would be massively cool if she were to show up for her inauguration wearing pink and green—and explained why. The sound of racist heads exploding would be deafening.

  217. 217
    Waynski says:

    @Richard Guhl: Richard, I’m well aware of and agree with most of your arguments, none of which we can pursue without power. The point I was trying to make – and apparently failed – is about political timing, political wisdom and the art of the possible. What politically is the upside of bringing this up now? I don’t see it.

    We have sent a lot of legislation to the Senate that McConnell is burying because he can. If we are not attacking them/Trump politically on popular issues, on current economic policy, on healthcare, on corruption, corporate welfare, etc. we’re losing. I don’t remember what the Lochner era is, but if I had to guess, it would be the era in the 30s when the court kept knocking down FDR’s progressive legislation, or sometime after reconstruction. Please let me know if I’m right on one of those, or not even close. In any case, thanks for your thoughts. I’m glad we can discuss issues respectfully here… mostly.

  218. 218
    laura says:

    @Kay: many happy returns of the day. I’m glad you’re having cake and ice cream even if you’ve got to do the flying and buying.
    Dont forget to make a wish 🎂🍨

  219. 219
    Jim says:

    @gsp: Indeed, but the former Wilma supporters are still smarting from her losing to the biggest loser of all times.

  220. 220
    Jim says:

    Indeed, he made the wilma-supporting losers and whiners whine again. Well done, and thanks for the laughs.

  221. 221
    tam1MI says:

    @Jim: Your guy is losing. We’re laughing last.

  222. 222
    Feckless says:

    Who needs Republicans when we have vicious idiots like Betty cracker to attack Democratic candidates.
    STFU

Comments are closed.