Election 2020 Open Thread: “But Is the Media America Ready for A Nerd President?”

Peter Beinart’s article is not as silly as the headline makes it sound. “Braininess Is Now the Brand”:

Among the biggest surprises of the Democratic presidential campaign so far are the rise of Pete Buttigieg and the resurgence of Elizabeth Warren, both of whom, according to a new Des Moines Register poll, have moved into a virtual tie for second place in Iowa with Bernie Sanders. In many ways, the Buttigieg and Warren phenomena are distinct: Buttigieg promises generational change; Warren is almost 70. Buttigieg emphasizes his success in a conservative state; Warren stresses her willingness to challenge corporate power. Buttigieg has become a darling of the big donors whom Warren eschews.

What unites them, and separates them from Sanders and Joe Biden, is their unabashed intellectualism. Both have made braininess central to their political brand. And it’s working—a fact that offers a window into the changing culture of the Democratic Party…

It’s not unusual for Democratic presidential candidates to have impressive resumes. Bill Clinton is a Rhodes Scholar; Barack Obama was the president of the Harvard Law Review. Cory Booker and Julián Castro attended Stanford; Amy Klobuchar went to Yale. In fact, every president since Ronald Reagan has been a product of the Ivy League.

What’s new is that Warren and Buttigieg are leaning into their credentialed intellectualism rather than worrying that it will make them appear elitist….

As late as 1994, according to the Pew Research Center, voters who had graduated from college were 15 points more likely to identify as Republicans than Democrats, and voters with graduate degrees were almost evenly split between the two parties. By 2017, college graduates’ partisan leanings had flipped: They now favored Democrats by 15 points. Among Americans with graduate degrees, the shift has been even starker. The Democratic advantage, which stood at two points in 1994, had grown to 32 points by 2017.

As a result, the educational composition of the two parties has diverged. From 1997 to 2017, the share of registered Republican voters who finished college stayed the same. Among Democrats, it rose by 15 points. This shift has influenced the way the two parties see education itself. In 2010, Democrats were seven points more likely than Republicans to say that colleges and universities have a positive effect on America. By 2017, they were 36 points more likely…

It’s likely Republicans would try to turn intellectualism into a negative for either Warren or Buttigieg. After all, the general electorate is neither as highly educated nor as favorably disposed toward higher education as Democratic primary voters. It’s a tactic that’s worked in the past. What’s harder to know is what will happen if a Democratic nominee wears these attacks as a badge of honor. To the debates over whether America is ready for a woman or a gay president, Warren and Buttigieg are adding an additional wrinkle: Is it ready for a nerd president, too?

Media Village Idiots: Black people can’t be nerds…






128 replies
  1. 1

    Males of MSM including neocon Beinert are racist. Film at eleven.

  2. 2
    Baud says:

    Down with braininess.

    Up! With! Baudiness!

  3. 3
    germy says:

    Too many Americans have to work two or three jobs to cover their student loans, pay their rent, and keep food on the table. My LIFT Act would raise incomes for working and middle-class families by up to $500/mo.— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) June 16, 2019

    Actual plans, rather than just the usual “Murica, FuckYeah!” lip service we get from the right.

  4. 4

    @Baud: Pete B speaking a foreign language, typical response MSM response: swoon.
    Immigrants speaking Spanish (or any other language besides English): MAGA response: Go back to your country.
    MSM response: Scratching their chin, but can today’s immigrants really assimilate like great great grandfather who only spoke Russian did.

  5. 5

    Paul Gosar wants T to get rid of OPT via executive order.

    ETA: Optional Practical Training, is an employment authorization for one year given to those on a student visa after completing their program of study.

  6. 6

    I’m seeing attacks on Warren from Bernie supporters on twitter. They argue she’s too conservative, not too brainy. I take that as a sign they feel threatened. This is typical:

    Elizabeth Warren• Silent on Standing Rock• Backtracked on single-payer• Says "I'm a capitalist to my bones"• Registered Republican until age 47• Claims Julian Assange is a "bad actor"• Says we "must hold Assad accountable"• Voted to increase Trump's military budget— Rob (@philosophrob) June 8, 2019

    There’s a fair amount of controversy in the comments. But you can see the direction the neo-HRC attack will take.

  7. 7
    Baud says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    They have said the same about every set of immigrants in this country’s history. It’s always wrong.

  8. 8
    Baud says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    It’ll be great when they’re on the same debate stage.

  9. 9

    @Baud: I agree with you, I have seen this argument from many conservative and centrist “intellectuals”.

  10. 10

    India has slapped tariffs on some American goods. Joy. Trade wars are easy to win. T and the BS wing of Ds.

    ETA: This also serves the moronic T supporting Indian RWNJs right.

  11. 11
    chris says:

    Sea otter cam! With otters right now!

  12. 12
    Baud says:

    BTW

    —a fact that offers a window into the changing culture of the Democratic Party.”

    I completely agree with Tami. That is truly a moronic statement.

  13. 13
    TomatoQueen says:

    *cough* *choke* Pointy-heads *cough* *choke* oh it still fits.

  14. 14
    smintheus says:

    Warren isn’t making braininess central to her campaign. She’s advancing intelligent and informed proposals to reform what needs reforming. She’s not running on a persona or dependent on her personality to gain attention. She’s just talking to people about things they care about.

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @smintheus:

    dependent on her personality to gain attention. 

    I don’t agree. Her personality is part of what makes her effective.

  16. 16
    MattF says:

    It’s just too much for the media to deal with. Brainy female presidential candidates. Strong female soccer players who love to crush the opposition. Funny female comedians who mock male pretentions. Where will it end??

  17. 17
    MomSense says:

    Why isn’t Booker on the brainy list? Hmmmm, wonder what it could possibly be.

  18. 18
    Miss Bianca says:

    @schrodingers_cat: All too true. As long as it’s a white guy speaking foreign languages, that’s pretty much OK.

    (note: Not actually intended as a slam against Buttigieg. The foreign language acquisition is a thing I like).

    @MomSense: Hmmmm…there’s just…something there, can’t put my finger on it…

  19. 19
    Baud says:

    @MomSense:

    I just don’t think it’s a serious analysis. It’s an intellectually stupid hot take on two new candidates (compared to Biden and Bernie) who are currently polling well. If Booker were polling better, there’d be some stupid hot take about him.

  20. 20
    MomSense says:

    @Baud:

    Yeah but if it is an article about intellectualism then it would seem to me that the person with the most impressive credentials is Booker. BA and MA from Stanford, then Oxford on a Rhodes Scholarship, and a JD from Yale Law School.

  21. 21
    Leto says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: “I’d vote for any woman but HER!

    Heard it in 2016, I’m sure we’ll hear it again. They’re just as bad as Republicans because they’re just as dumb.

  22. 22

    New S.C. poll has Buttigieg and Warren surging as Bernie drops, but Biden still has a commanding lead with all demographics and regions except 18-35 (who like Warren). Biden is especially popular with black voters. https://www.postandcourier.com/politics/warren-buttigieg-surge-in-sc-democratic-presidential-poll-as-biden/article_0a351cee-8f77-11e9-a29c-9fe60d10303b.html

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Rose Twitter was attacking her minority small business plan as “MORE 👏🏻 BLACK 👏🏻 HEDGE 👏🏻 FUND 👏🏻 MANAGERS” yesterday. “Why does it matter what kind of person wears the boot that’s on your neck?”

  23. 23
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Bernie drops

    At the end of the day, that’s the only thing I want. I can live with anyone else (who is likely to win the nomination).

  24. 24

    Another six year old girl dead of heat stroke while crossing the border.

  25. 25
    smintheus says:

    @Baud: But that’s not what she’s selling to the public. Radically different from the personality-centric campaigns of several other candidates.

  26. 26
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    “Why does it matter what kind of person wears the boot that’s on your neck?”

    Why does Rose Twitter support segregation in the oppressor class?

  27. 27

    @Baud: it’s most likely to be Biden based on the available data (and don’t “it’s name recognition” me, since Bernie and Warren also have near-100% among Dems). Obviously these things are subject to change, but those sorts of leads tend to be predictive, even when you adjust for name recognition (by for instance dividing the polling number by it).

  28. 28
    Baud says:

    @smintheus:

    Right. I agree with the first half of that sentence. But I think her success is dependent on her personality.

  29. 29
    Ruckus says:

    @MomSense:
    How can he be smart……….
    He’s not filthy rich! How could he have gotten smart if he didn’t buy it?
    He’s…. he’s….. he’s…. got skin color! You know that stops the smart from going in………

  30. 30
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    We’ll see. I suppose the person currently in the lead is always the “most likely” to win. The debate next week will be interesting.

  31. 31

    @Baud: if their lead is huge, in many demographics, and holding, yes.

  32. 32
    smintheus says:

    @Baud: Ok, I agree that her personality makes a positive impression on voters.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    All true. But on the other hand, (1) it’s early and (2) there are still a lot of other candidates that need to sort themselves out. It’s not like Biden is polling above 50 percent (last I checked).

  34. 34
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    I feel that Biden is strong now due to of course the President Obama connection.
    Once the real Biden is out there and the other candidates get better known to the masses rather than just the political junkies, I think he will fall away. That big endorsement for Harris from South Carolina? I think that what will both help and hurt Warren is that she has ideas and plans. They seem to be good plans, well thought out plans but she almost sounds like she’s trying to tell everyone what they need and need to do. It could be taken as she’s lecturing, not leading. I don’t think she comes across that way but I could see some people thinking that.

  35. 35
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Whenever I find myself getting too interested in a poll, I remind myself it’s way fucking early. OTOH, when I think that the first two states lean old, white and rural, I wonder if Biden-mentum won’t keep building

    On Rose Twitter: Ryan Grim of the Intercept (where he fits right in) said something vaguely favorable about Warren, and the True Believers swarmed

    AM0 💗 🔪 🔥 is real & and all about the #NotMeUs
    I’m saving myself some time and pain and writing her off as a center right shill already.
    InnerCityProjections
    Very dubious of Warren inheriting 7 or 8 wars. Tulsi Gabard is by far the most articulate voice for actual Peace. I hope she can gain traction in the debate.
    Michael
    Why would we settle for the less progressive, less popular politician though?
    BehaviorTrap
    I would hardly call Warren a Progressive. She’s a capitalist Warhawk, flip flops on M4A, was a Republican until age 46 and she is willing to take corporate PAC money.
    Dave
    Thought you were woke Ryan. EW? Nope.

  36. 36

    @Baud: Also, Uncle Joe has a history of crashing and burning. I’m waiting to see the lay of the land after a few debates.

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    At what point do we regard Rose Twitter in the same way we do Fox News?

  38. 38
    Kay says:

    So take this:

    As late as 1994, according to the Pew Research Center, voters who had graduated from college were 15 points more likely to identify as Republicans than Democrats, and voters with graduate degrees were almost evenly split between the two parties. By 2017, college graduates’ partisan leanings had flipped: They now favored Democrats by 15 points. Among Americans with graduate degrees, the shift has been even starker. The Democratic advantage, which stood at two points in 1994, had grown to 32 points by 2017.

    And add this:

    Finally, it’s extremely encouraging (and not well known!) that the four-year college completion rate (for all Americans between the ages of twenty-five and twenty-nine, not just those who graduated high school or even went to college) rose from 24.7 percent in 1995 to 37 percent in 2018. That’s a whopping 50 percent increase. And while racial completion gaps remain large, there’s been huge progress for African Americans and especially Hispanics, increasing their completion rates 47 percent and a remarkable 133 percent respectively over the past quarter century.

    So their potential market is shrinking and ours is growing. Maybe that’s why they’re so bound and determined to gut education funding. It doesn’t work all by itself and it doesn’t work quickly and it’s not always equitable but it does increase. Always. Goes up, not down.

  39. 39
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    True. Hard to predict whether history will repeat itself though.

  40. 40
    FlipYrWhig says:

    The Sanders people are vile and I blame Sanders for letting it get like this.

  41. 41

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Baud: @Ruckus: well I did say “based on the available data,” “tend to,” and “most likely,” I’m not saying he’s a shoo-in.

  42. 42
    Baud says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    They’re his base. He needs the haters and that’s the reason he can’t join the party, because he will lose them.

  43. 43
    Baud says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Agree. Any objective analysis would say he has the best chance.

  44. 44
    Kay says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    was a Republican until age 46

    I will never understand this. The point is to MAKE CONVERTS. My God, she came over to your side! Take the win and celebrate it! That’s a minus 1 for GOP and a plus 1 for D. There is no downside.

    It is BIZARRE to claim you’re making a “movement” and refuse entry to people. Republicans trot our their converts and make them national speakers. We savage ours and refuse to admit them.

  45. 45
    Leto says:

    @Baud: True. I hope after the first few debates that some of the 0-1% polling candidates will suspend their campaigns to go spend time with their families.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    jk says:

    I hope America is ready for a nerd/brainy President which would exclude Biden who’s dumber than dirt and he confirms it every time he opens his damn mouth.

  48. 48
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Baud: “No other candidate stacks up to the imaginary version of Bernie Sanders whose saintly aura of perfection constantly reverberates in my mind, regardless of anything he’s actually done or said on any subject.” It’s deranged.

  49. 49
    Wapiti says:

    As late as 1994, according to the Pew Research Center, voters who had graduated from college were 15 points more likely to identify as Republicans than Democrats, and voters with graduate degrees were almost evenly split between the two parties.

    1994. That’s 25 years ago. For a generation, Republicans have been losing ground with college educated voters.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    Wapiti says:

    @Kay: And for a lot of people with kids, 45-50 is about the age that they can take a breath and assess the world around them.

  52. 52
    James E Powell says:

    The Democrats have had the brains since the 50s. The Republicans have been the “not just stupid, but stupid and proud of it” party for most of my life. The press/media have been consistent in their ridicule of brains. They absolutely savaged Gore for being smart and glorified Bush for his obvious lack of knowledge or intellectual curiosity.

  53. 53
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Kay: they will grasp at any hate-straw to delegitimize the notBernies.

    Among other problems, they suffer from the (emo) Cult of the Presidency. Congress, much less voters, are an abstraction to them. President Bernie will create a Nordic Utopia with Righteous Bellowing. These are the people who’ve convinced themselves that Mark Pryor and Mark Landrieu would have voted for Single Payer if Obama had been louder and angrier. A lot of them thought Anthony Wiener, Avenatti and that loud guy from Florida were leaders who had the mythic “balls”. They shouted things.

  54. 54
    Another Scott says:

    @Leto: … and then run for US Senate.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  55. 55

    @Kay:

    I will never understand this. The point is to MAKE CONVERTS. My God, she came over to your side! Take the win and celebrate it! That’s a minus 1 for GOP and a plus 1 for D. There is no downside.

    It is BIZARRE to claim you’re making a “movement” and refuse entry to people. Republicans trot our their converts and make them national speakers. We savage ours and refuse to admit them.

    Agreed. Dan Savage has been calling out (vocal parts of) the LGBT community for this behavior for years now. “Oh sure now that you have a gay son you’re with us! Go to hell!” is unhelpful compared to “welcome, here’s how you can start to make amends.”

  56. 56
    Ruckus says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    He did let it get like this. But he created the road they are traveling down. He’s urged them on down the road. He is, for want of a better metaphor, a one song rock star. There’s no depth, no history, no skill to back up his one hit wonder. Maybe a better metaphor is that he is a cult leader. He’s the political version of Jim Jones, who got all his followers to swallow poison and die for him.

  57. 57
    patrick II says:

    @Wapiti:

    If I remember right, that poll showed that four year graduates were republican, especially among business majors and engineers. People with advanced degrees leaned democratic.

  58. 58
    randal m sexton says:

    I could not quite remember what a rose emoji signified, and so I looked it up. Turns out there is no emoji for tumbril or pitchfork, so I must remain emoji-less for a while.

  59. 59

    @Ruckus: nah, a lot of these people (millennial/X lefties) were always like this.

  60. 60
    Ruckus says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    He has so little actual record that his bullshit speeches are it, the sum total of him.
    Every other candidate has a record. Warren was a republican, she’s tainted I tell you, TAINTED….. Harris was a cop and we know that they are all killers…… I can go on but BS’s main thing is that he has no history, so he must be pure. Like his initials, it’s all BS.

  61. 61
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ruckus: I can’t stand to watch him anymore than I can trump, but I’ve seen clips of him insisting that he has set the agenda for 2020: Medicare For All, tuition-free college and a $15 minimum wage. None of this is true. M4A, a phrase which goes back at least to the 90s when Ted Kennedy used it to promote a public option/buy-in proposal is popular, Single Payer is not; one of Harris’s early missteps was saying she supported eliminating private insurance, she had to walk it back the next day. Support for tuition-free college also falls when you get into the details. And one of the stupidest fights in ’16 was the idea that $12 with local variants or incremental increases vs $15 was the test of the “True Progressive”, to use Himself’s phrase from that time. I don’t know if Chris Hayes ever breaks his adoring gaze long enough to push back on this, but I’ve never seen him or anyone do it.

    Sanders and Rose Twitter are the reason I wish people would stop talking about a climate change focused debate. I think climate change should be much more central to our politics, but for the B-Bots, it will just become one more litmus test, and then every single issue will become a litmus test for which the DNC (dramatic chipmunk music) must host a specific debate, with all candidates on the same stage, or else THE GAME IS RIGGED AND WE’VE BEEN BETRAAAAAAYED! Let a coalition of environmental groups host some kind of forum, or fora, by invitation. Don’t make every issue a chance for them to rage and tweet-shriek at their closet-monster fantasy of the all powerful DNC

  62. 62
    Ruckus says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    Don’t disagree that they were. But they will follow BS because there is no there, there. They don’t want a leader with ideas, they want someone like themselves.

  63. 63

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m fine with climate change becoming a central issue even if the Sanders team tries to claim credit. Executive-action climate policy is my #1 issue, that and restoring the administrative state.

    I imagine Warren will be the only one with anything coherent to say.

  64. 64
    Leto says:

    @Another Scott: Stat in their senate seats/run for senate. We definitely have to get it back for any hope of moving forward.

  65. 65
    Kay says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    Then there’s the other type of convert. Who go from being a Republican to being a Democrat who hates Democrats. We have one here. A sheriff’s deputy. Okay, he’s been a Democrat about 6 months and he’s already convinced he knows everything that’s wrong with Democrats. I regret being so welcoming to him, ya know, slim pick’ins around here but still. We really don’t need another anti-Democrats, Democratic faction. It’s already 10% of the base.

  66. 66
    Formerly disgruntled in Oregon says:

    @Major Major Major Major: Biden’s with you on the concept of Day 1 Climate Emergency executive actions.

  67. 67
    Kay says:

    My only complaint about the primary so far is I wish the governors got more play. I think they’re important. I say this while supporting Warren so I suppose what I mean is some of you have to support them :)

    Please do so. Thank you :)

  68. 68
    Ruckus says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:
    I think I answered you at #62.
    To me the issue is that we are a very large group of people. And any large group of people needs a leader or they will either wander around aimlessly or fight each other, maybe both. Now how you find that one person out of over 300 million to elect is a conundrum. What are their goals, skills and appealing/negative traits? As we can see here on this relatively small sample sized blog of reasonably like minded people, there are differences in our ideas of who would be best. I like Harris best, Warren second, third is up for grabs but possibly Booker. I wonder if anyone else would make that same list.

  69. 69
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ruckus: “He knows we need to uproot and replace capitalism with something more fair, just, and equitable.” OK, fine, how, when? We don’t have time for this castles-in-the-sky bullshit.

  70. 70
    Gvg says:

    @Major Major Major Major: IMO it’s most likely NOT Biden, because he is the leader this early. Most Democratic races I can remember, an unknown or little known won. Hillary 2016 is actually the exception in my lifetime. Gore also was predictable but Obama, Bill Clinton, Carter were not widely known nor predicted winners early. It is just too early.
    We have had conversations on this subject here going back to 2006. The early leader hasn’t fared well.
    I think the Republicans used to be more predictable, but even they have had a surprise and I have no idea who would win if Trump was gone.

  71. 71
    germy says:

    Elizabeth Warren wrote this about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez:

    https://time.com/collection/100-most-influential-people-2019/5567752/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/

    The year 2008 was a reckoning. While millions of Americans lost their livelihoods to Wall Street’s greed, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez lost her dad to lung cancer, and her family fell off a financial cliff. She watched as our government bailed out Wall Street while it ignored families like hers. She learned the hard way that in America today, Washington protects the powerful while leaving hardworking people behind.

    Her commitment to putting power in the hands of the people is forged in fire. Coming from a family in crisis and graduating from school with a mountain of debt, she fought back against a rigged system and emerged as a fearless leader in a movement committed to demonstrating what an economy, a planet and a government that works for everyone should look like.

    A year ago, she was taking orders across a bar. Today, millions are taking cues from her. She reminds all of us that even while greed and corruption slow our progress, even while armies of lobbyists swarm Washington, in our democracy, true power still rests with the people. And she’s just getting started.

  72. 72

    @Gvg: you forgot Kerry. Polls in the first half of the year before the primary are about as predictive as polls in the second half. And they’re both more predictive than you’d think. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/we-analyzed-40-years-of-primary-polls-even-early-on-theyre-fairly-predictive/

    ETA especially when you account for name recognition, as in the second half of that linked post

  73. 73
    Leto says:

    @Kay: Ok, what are their plans? The only one I know anything about so far is Inslee, and that’s climate change. That’s his entire platform. It’s important, but it’s not the only thing. The guy from Montana who’s butthurt he isn’t in the first debate because he had to actually do his job and govern his state during launch time. It’s not a good look, whining about having to do your job instead of getting into the Dem president race at an opportune time. What’s your message? How are you connecting?

    We talk about having to make gains in the Senate, holding seats there. Same holds true with governor seats. I know for them it feels like it could be anyone’s chance to beat Trumpov and be president. We have too many people who have no plans, no realistic shot at this, yet they’re still here. Whoever said the left doesn’t have grifters hasn’t looked hard enough at this field (at least bottom third).

  74. 74
    germy says:

    Tom Perez says hosting a climate debate isn't practical. Actually not practical: Paradise, CA in ashes. Midwest farms underwater. Antarctic glaciers breaking up. Mass extinction. Practical: Supporting a political party that refuses fossil fuel $. #GoGreen https://t.co/NeGYX9VSV1— Dr. Jill Stein🌻 (@DrJillStein) June 11, 2019

  75. 75
    J R in WV says:

    @Ruckus:

    I’m with you on Harris followed closely by Warren. I’m a little less settled on the third place candidate… Don’t know much about Booker, except that he had the courage to enter a burning building to rescue someone — I can say that takes more courage than the average puppy. So he won’t be afraid of Trump and his tantrums.

  76. 76

    @germy: supporting the Green Party isn’t practical, wtf

  77. 77
    Leto says:

    @germy: I’m sure Putin will be happy to host that debate. Maybe she can get a special pass for Flynn to attend.

  78. 78
    germy says:

    @J R in WV:

    I’m with you on Harris followed closely by Warren. I’m a little less settled on the third place candidate…

    My first choice is Harris, followed very closely by Warren, and my third choice is Gillibrand.

  79. 79
    germy says:

    @Leto: Certainly Putin is a climate change denier. All that petro money.

  80. 80

    @Major Major Major Major: Kerry’s campaign was on life support in December 2003.

  81. 81
    tokyokie says:

    @schrodingers_cat: People who complain about non-English speakers fitting into American society favor bigotry over capitalism. An immigrant to the United States who never learns English will be doomed to eke out his or his existence at the bottom of the economic divide within his or her ethnic group. Those who learn English (or whose heirs who do so) have the opportunity (not the guarantee) of achieving greater economic success. And people who bitch about U.S. residents not using English, even when talking with other members of their ethnic group, demonstrate that their bigotry means more to them than the capitalistic determinism in which they profess allegiance.

  82. 82
    germy says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    supporting the Green Party isn’t practical, wtf

    No it isn’t. We’d need a different election system, and much better green party candidates. We lack both.

  83. 83
    Wapiti says:

    @Leto: Yeah, I like the idea that Inslee thinks climate change is the most urgent problem. But as a Washingtonian…

    Washington State has one of the most regressive tax structures in the country. The two richest men in the country live here (Bezos and Gates) and scads of other billionaires. We have no income tax. Last year they looked at the income tax again, and failed. If Inslee can’t manage that heavy lift at the state level, how is he going to fix things at the national level?

  84. 84
    J R in WV says:

    Ya’ll forcing me to take time-out for an afternoon nap!!!

    ;-) Yawn!

  85. 85
    germy says:

    @Wapiti: Gates loves giving to his various charities, but he doesn’t want to pay taxes? Not surprising.

  86. 86
    Leto says:

    @germy: Oh I know. Just referencing the fact she was at the same Kremlin Galla that Flynn attended, figured her buddy Vlad would help her on that.

  87. 87
    germy says:

    According to the White House pool, it appears the president is going to be spending Father's Day golfing with Lindsey Graham.— Niels Lesniewski (@nielslesniewski) June 16, 2019

    I’m going to wager his youngest son is feeling a deep sense of relief.

  88. 88

    @germy: I just looked up Gates’s position on taxation and it appears he supported a state income tax on incomes above $200K but does well off other tax decisions Microsoft has supported. So it looks like a mixed bag?

  89. 89
    Richard Guhl says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Hectoring tone, finger-wagging, fist-shaking, self-righteous, judgmental. Hmmm.
    I wonder what leader may be modeling this???

  90. 90
    germy says:

    The more he talks, the deeper he digs. As others have noted, no wonder his lawyers wouldn’t let him talk to Mueller.

    The President accidentally undercuts the “Deep State” claim by admitting a leak about the FBI’s investigation before the election would have been fatal. “Had that gone out before the election, I don’t think I would have had enough time to defend myself.” pic.twitter.com/HgLFAb9G1l— Josh Campbell (@joshscampbell) June 16, 2019

  91. 91
    Richard Guhl says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: The difference between Biden then and Biden now?
    Then he was a long shot. Now, he is the elder statesman.
    If he’s smart, knowing everyone else will be gunning for him, he’ll do the fogbank strategy of pleasantly praising everybody else’s ideas, and he looks forward to them enacting legislation in Congress.
    He can’t, after all, credibly out flank others on the left. But he can play the “steady hand” card.

  92. 92
    Ruckus says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Agreed, we don’t have the time.
    And that is really the point, they don’t want anything, BS supporters want what he’s selling, loud talk from someone who looks mad and has ideas. But. BS has ideas like a TV commercial has ideas. And the idea is to buy BS. Not that he will do anything positive for you but you should buy him anyway. Everything BS is soundbites, he gives it no more depth than that. BS is the soundbite candidate. For people raised on soundbites who know and want nothing more, he’s the ideal candidate. For anyone with the attention span past that of a fly, he’s got nothing.

  93. 93
    Richard Guhl says:

    @germy: The fundamental problem with outsiders getting elected President is who is going to carry their water in Congress?
    We seem to forget that elected officials are, first and foremost, human beings who prefer people they like and dislike those who make it a point of giving them the finger.

  94. 94
    BR says:

    @Ruckus:

    My strategy lately is to say that on policy I support both Sanders and Warren (which I do). That seems to defuse the Sanders folks.

  95. 95
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    Is that number seven that they will admit to?😠😠

  96. 96
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:

    So he won’t be afraid of Trump and his tantrums.

    The only reason anyone should be afraid of a 5 yr old throwing a tantrum is that he actually has the power (and the probability) to make a very huge, very costly revenge mistake, unlike a normal 5 yr old having a tantrum. And 5 yr old drumpf has that power and the only thing really restraining him is that he is a chickenshit. Push him hard enough and that chickenshit may just find his maximum stupidity level. And we really don’t want him to do that.

  97. 97
    rikyrah says:

    @germy:
    Don’t nobody care what you have to say, Jill Stein😠😠😠

  98. 98
    Ruckus says:

    @germy:
    The concept of the green party is appealing. The concept is a necessary one in a world where nature has been so screwed with, because nature seems far more likely to extract revenge than seek it.
    The concept and the execution though, they seem to differ so far from the reality of humanity that they seem to be at point of total ineffectiveness.

  99. 99
    debbie says:

    @Richard Guhl:

    Or maybe just show up to an event along with the other candidates.

  100. 100
    Ruckus says:

    @BR:
    OK. But other than mollification how can you say you support BS’s policies, he has none.
    @rikyrah:
    Personally I say the same about BS. Don’t give a damn. He’s the guy that 70 yrs ago would be a senator standing on a street corner with a sandwich board sign yelling at passers by and no one would think about for more than a fleeting second. But he’s a senator and he gets on TV. So lots of people see him. Which makes him far more harmful than harmless. Because he’s got nothing other than soundbites, or given his age, a sandwich board.

  101. 101
    chopper says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    what about inslee? he’s actually the best candidate on climate change we got.

  102. 102
    germy says:

    Judith Miller!

    Everything old is new again:

    Judith Miller and William Tobey: To protect against Iranian attacks, US should be ready to escort oil tankers https://t.co/JC7KdrvCVJ #FoxNews— Judith Miller (@JMfreespeech) June 15, 2019

    Hey, aren't you the person who helped Scooter Libby plant fake stories in the Times about non-existent weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to sell a war?Did you know that 4 of my friends were killed fighting in Iraq?Please sit down.— soonergrunt 🇺🇸 (@soonergrunt) June 15, 2019

  103. 103
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    Guess I shouldn’t be surprised she’s ended up at Fox.

  104. 104
    Richard Guhl says:

    @Gvg:
    I think we grossly underestimate Biden’s advantage as a former VP. Humphrey beat McCarthy and McGovern; Mondale crushed Hart; Gore crushed Bradley.

  105. 105
    RepubAnon says:

    @germy: I expect the sheer number of broken promises from Republicans and Democrats alike is why folks with both a plan and the ability to effectively communicate how that plan would help the average citizen is why this is catching on. The days of voting based on who you’d want to have a beer with have been replaced by voting for someone who not only promises to help solve your problems – but seems to have a real plan to do so.

  106. 106
    Ruckus says:

    @germy:
    soonergrunt is too nice. She should please just shut the fuck up. And then please sit down.

  107. 107
    germy says:

    @debbie: It was inevitable. And Lara Logan is with sinclair.

  108. 108
    dm says:

    @Kay: If Elizabeth Warren was a Republican until she was 46 — that was 1996 or so. A pretty good time for someone (who had other things to do with their life than politics, especially) to leave the Republican Party, really. They were demonstrating that Newt Gingrich wasn’t an aversion at that point.

  109. 109
    Citizen Alan says:

    @germy:

    We’d need a different election system, and much better green party candidates. We lack both.

    In 2006, I watched the Green Party Presidential Debate on Youtube (sponsored by RT, natch). The amazing thing was realizing that Stein got the Green nomination on clear merit. Because while she is a ridiculous crank, she towered over the superultramega cranks who were on the stage with her. One of whom pledged to abolish private health insurance, confiscate every privately owned handgun, and nationalize the entire energy sector via executive order within the first 100 days.

    The Greens are just left wing Teabaggers. Like the Teabaggers, they want a dictatorship. They just disagree on what they want the dictator to do.

  110. 110
    UncleEbeneezer says:

    Hillary, Obama, Kerry, Gore, Clinton, Dukakis etc. All have reputations as having fierce intellects. That’s most of the candidates from my lifetime. Dems have a long tradition of supporting very smart people.

  111. 111
    James E Powell says:

    @Ruckus:

    I like Harris best, Warren second, third is up for grabs but possibly Booker. I wonder if anyone else would make that same list.

    I’m the same on 1 and 2, but can’t put Booker at 3 because of my aversion to corporate charters. I really cannot come up with a 3 and hope that I don’t need to.

  112. 112
    dm says:

    @dm: for “aversion” please read “abberation”, like I did when I proofread what autocorrect had to contribute.

    They were demonstrating that Newt Gingrich wasn’t an aversion at that point.

  113. 113
    Kirk Spencer says:

    @Major Major Major Major:

    @Baud: it’s most likely to be Biden based on the available data (and don’t “it’s name recognition” me, since Bernie and Warren also have near-100% among Dems). Obviously these things are subject to change, but those sorts of leads tend to be predictive, even when you adjust for name recognition (by for instance dividing the polling number by it).

    (note, I jumped here without reading further. If I’m echoing somebody mea culpa.)

    No. At this point it is not predictive. In June a year and a half before elections: Lieberman held a lead similar to Biden’s. Hillary led Obama by 50%. Bush was 19-12 over Trump. Admittedly in June of 2011 Romney was a leader – more or less tied with Sarah Palin but otherwise leading the pack.

    June of the year before the election is too early to trust any of the numbers. Too many people have too many other things leading a decision that doesn’t need made for over a year, and the polls reflect this.

    Campaign for your favorite. Fund your favorite. But make no decisions on who is leading for now – not till (at best) after labor day. It’s just too early.

  114. 114
    Ruckus says:

    @James E Powell:
    I’m iffy on Booker for the same reason. But I also look at the overall and someone who can have a strong position and a discussion about that and learn? And charter schools of and by themselves are fine. It’s when public school is replaced by charter schools that I’m pissed off. And I’m iffy on who else is running, who I might slot into 3rd place. Mayor Pete seems like not a bad guy, Beto has his points, after that I’ve just got nothing. I don’t know enough about Gillibrand at this point but she has potential to be an equal third to Booker in my mind.
    Public schools are the cornerstone of our country. Everyone should have a chance to learn and grow. Everyone. Regardless of color, gender, age, religion or lack of…. And that should be free. And that to me means to at least 4 yrs of college. We want smart people. Smart educated people are more likely to want to grow, to have smart educated children, to want equality, to want to see all boats raised – not just the expensive boats. All of which is why conservatives are fucking up education, why the secretary of education is who she is, why the shift in education is going for democrats. Educated people are harder to coerce with bullshit. Not impossible, just harder.

  115. 115
    Brachiator says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Elizabeth Warren• Silent on Standing Rock• Backtracked on single-payer• Says “I’m a capitalist to my bones”• Registered Republican until age 47

    Wait a minute. Was Wilmer ever a registered Democrat?

    What a bunch of dopes these Sanders fanatics are.

  116. 116
    Brachiator says:

    @Richard Guhl:

    I think we grossly underestimate Biden’s advantage as a former VP. Humphrey beat McCarthy and McGovern; Mondale crushed Hart; Gore crushed Bradley.

    Yep. And Biden was the VP of a popular, beloved president.

  117. 117
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @UncleEbeneezer: Carter went to the Naval Academy and then the Navy’s Nuclear School. That’s not peanuts

  118. 118
    J R in WV says:

    @BR:

    My strategy lately is to say that on policy I support both Sanders and Warren (which I do). That seems to defuse the Sanders folks.

    But it can’t be true, because Sanders has no policy not dictated to him by Moscow. . . .

    ETA: Oh, hai, I’m back, short nap with a 75 pound lap dog!

  119. 119
    Gbbalto says:

    @Richard Guhl: Bad trend. They all lost the election anyway.

  120. 120
    J R in WV says:

    @Brachiator:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    Elizabeth Warren• Silent on Standing Rock• Backtracked on single-payer• Says “I’m a capitalist to my bones”• Registered Republican until age 47

    Wait a minute. Was Wilmer ever a registered Democrat?

    What a bunch of dopes these Sanders fanatics are.

    Wilmer is so proud to have never been a Democrat. He’s already signed up as a VT Senatorial candidate — and NOT as a Democratic candidate, not at all!!

    I think the Democratic party needs a rule about candidates for our national nominations, a rule like “Must have been registered as a Democratic Party member for 6 years prior to filing for election, OR must have already been elected to office as a Democratic candidate.” I’m a little flexible on the wording, and an exception for states that don’t have party membership allowed, or such as that…

    But just not being a Democrat, and filing as a Democrat, that opens our door to Republicans trying to split the voters in primaries, trying to split the vote in any way!

  121. 121
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @smintheus: I agree with this. She’s not trying to be a rock star, just someone who can do the job and is willing to show us her credentials.

  122. 122
    Richard Guhl says:

    @Gbbalto: True. But none of us has a foolproof ex ante method of choosing the winner every time.
    Part of my motivation here is to acknowledge to myself that Biden might well get the nomination. Much of the creative policy has come from the three progressive women.

  123. 123
    Scotian says:

    @J R in WV:

    I could not agree more, and 2016 showed exactly why this is something of great fundamental concern for the health and stability of a political party, especially one with governing history and not just a secondary level party.

    How can someone be a credible leader of a party without some connection/history within that party first? That really should be in the no-brainer category of obviousness.

  124. 124
    Gelfling 545 says:

    @germy: Is there a lot of discrepancy among the D candidates on climate change? I mean, something to actually debate about?

  125. 125
    The Gray Adder says:

    I guess the Republicans got somebody who had taken a course in game theory at Liberty U. Only 1/3 of Americans have a four year degree or better, and those without are (generally) easier to fool. So there you are.

  126. 126
    Gbbalto says:

    @Richard Guhl: Alas, too possible that he will. I just think that he will blow it. Agree that we have some much better women candidates. We will hopefully go for one of them rather than go down the well worn track of assuming that someone is electable just because they were a Veep.

  127. 127
    Ruckus says:

    @Scotian:
    That really should be in the no-brainer category of extremely fucking obviousness.
    Fixed that for you.

  128. 128
    apocalipstick says:

    @Baud:
    Change the spelling and I’m there for you.

Comments are closed.