Monday Morning Open Thread: Hopes & Ambitions

Jonathan Capehart, in the Washington Post:

I turned to the rollicking 24-hour cocktail party that is Twitter to get some insight on the 2020 race for the Democratic nomination for president. Look, I know, Twitter is to civil political discourse what President Trump is to the rule of law. But what better way to try to take the pulse of potential Democratic voters than to pose a 118-character query and await incoming…

What I found out was actually rather interesting. I couldn’t get through all of the more than 1,000 responses that I’d received by 1 p.m. on Thursday, but I got through enough to notice a really interesting pattern among my admittedly unscientific and self-selecting sample. While the new polls show former vice president Joe Biden as the runaway favorite in the crowded field, he’s not among the favorites of the folks who responded to me.

Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.) was the favorite by far. She was the first choice of 117 respondents. That includes the 10 people who gave her all three of their slots and six people who gave her two out of the three. Seventy-five gave Harris their second slot, and 24 more made her their third choice.

The interesting pattern that emerged was that for many, Harris and Warren were the top two choices. It was either Harris then Warren or Warren then Harris. More often that not, I noticed a Harris-Warren-Biden troika. And, in that, you see three strands of the Democratic contest…






182 replies
  1. 1
    Baud says:

    — Neera Tanden 

    Subtle. Real subtle, AL.

  2. 2

    @Baud: Isn’t she the Democratic Establishment?

  3. 3
    satby says:

    @Baud: ok, too subtle for me evidently. Good morning Baud 🙋
    Edit and to you too @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

  4. 4
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    The interesting pattern that emerged was that for many, Harris and Warren were the top two choices.

    This seems to be where I am settling in too. I have long been a fan of EW but every time I watch Kamala I feel the old “She’s got this.” vibe. Not sure what that says, I am usually far ahead or far behind the curve.

  5. 5
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @satby: Blech.

  6. 6
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    Red Sox Manager Passes On White House Visit

    “I don’t feel comfortable celebrating in the White House,” Alex Cora said in a statement

    ***
    “Puerto Rico is very important to me,” Cora said. “During the winter I spent a lot of time back home, visiting my family and friends. Unfortunately, we are still struggling, still fighting. Some people still lack basic necessities, others remain without electricity and many homes and schools are in pretty bad shape almost a year and a half after Hurricane María struck.”

    ***
    Cora joins a list of other Red Sox players who will not attend the celebration, including American League Most Valuable Player Mookie Betts, Jackie Bradley Jr. and Rafael Devers. Additionally, just last week University of Virginia men’s basketball coach, Tony Bennett announced that his team would decline a White House invite to celebrate their championship.

    (link)

  7. 7
    plato says:

    Man is the worst animal.

    The world’s most comprehensive, and damning, report on the state of nature will be released on Monday in Paris.

    The UN’s Global Assessment will highlight the distressing impact that humanity is having on the natural world.

    It will probably state that species are being lost at the fastest ever rate, mainly driven by the changing use of land.

    This study will underline just how much humanity relies on the natural world, whether it is for food, clean water, or to absorb the warming CO2 gas that’s driving climate change.

    It is expected to show, in grim detail, how humans have trampled all over the natural world over the past 50 years – and what is likely to happen over the coming decades unless major changes are implemented.

  8. 8
    rikyrah says:

    Good Morning, Everyone 😄😄😄

  9. 9
    satby says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: 😘

    @rikyrah: Good morning rikyrah 😊!

  10. 10
    Baud says:

    @satby:
    @rikyrah:

    Good morning.

  11. 11
  12. 12
    Baud says:

    @satby:

    Neera is this cycle’s DWS for Wilmerites.

  13. 13
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: He just doesn’t want to get insulted with cold McD’s fries and 1/4 pounders.

  14. 14
    Raven says:

    Hey ya’ll, Runnin to the bait shop for some shrimp then back at it!

  15. 15
    Immanentize says:

    Happy Monday, All!

    Good fishing, Raven.

  16. 16
    satby says:

    @Baud: thanks! I try not to keep up with the Wilmerites, toxic as they are. I wish primaries would start so we could vote Wilmer off the island ASAP.

  17. 17
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    It must be hard for Wilmerites — this year they have to go straight at a woman of color, born to immigrant parents, who moved from being on welfare to Yale Law School in her life. Not a good look for Bernie.

  18. 18
    Baud says:

    @satby:

    Delay is good. He’s still too strong due to name recognition. I’d like him to be out of it before the voting even begins.

  19. 19
    Baud says:

    Have I mentioned that the NYT is garbage?

    Some Look at Joe Biden’s Campaign and See Hillary Clinton’s

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    Sooner or later they’ll have to attack Warren, no?

  21. 21
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Immanentize: Or a woman who is just as good at every progressive purpose you could want, but effective. Or both. The bloom is seriously off the rose. In fact it might be some potato peelings dyed pink. I now feel a bit like John Cole after having voted for Dubya twice. Can we have a real lefty replace this guy? Still don’t want a Third Way dem in his place, but this is getting as old as he is.

  22. 22
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Raven: Tight lines!

  23. 23
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: Yes. And Harris too. The orchestrated hit on Biden from the Bernie camp seems to be backfiring.

    Look at that NYT header Baud put up. Who cares if Biden’s campaign looks like Hillary’s at this moment? Trump and Bernie. I mean, she won the primary decisively, right?

  24. 24
    satby says:

    @Immanentize: @Baud: the former devoted Wilmerites I know IRL have mostly moved on. Only one old white guy (figures) is still all in for Bernie. My nephew likes Harris, my son is more undecided but wants someone younger as his main criterion. But neither will vote 3rd party this time.

  25. 25
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Immanentize: it was a blow out. If the primaries were assigned electoral votes she would have won 419. And she treated him with kid gloves – not a single negative ad – and she still crushed him.

    Not that you would know that from watching the corporate media.

  26. 26
    Chyron HR says:

    @Immanentize:

    I mean, [Clinton] won the primary decisively, right?

    Only because Democrats “put their thumbs on the scale” by voting for her.

  27. 27

    @Chyron HR:

    Only because Democrats “put their thumbs on the scale” by voting for her.

    Those Dastardly Democrats.

  28. 28
    Ceci n est pas mon nym says:

    I keep thinking about being in a Borders Books in some fall, when the next year calendars were on display. And they had two political calendars with the “inevitable” candidates.

    One was Hillary. The other was Giuliani.

    Borders closed in 2011. I think this must have been 2007, at about this point in the 2008 election cycle.

    So that’s what I think about when I hear about Biden and inevitability.

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:
    @Chyron HR:

    It would have been even more decisive if it weren’t for caucuses.

  30. 30
    Immanentize says:

    @satby: That is good news from our reporter in the field! Promising. And I hope is duplicated everywhere. But still I worry….

  31. 31
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    “More than halfway into Mr. Trump’s term, he and Mr. Pence have developed what aides describe as a rhythm, in which the president lays out the broad contours of policy and then hands off to the vice president to make the granular sales pitch” @maggienyt

    Mr. Pence’s aides say.

  32. 32
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: Iowa will never get rid of their caucuses because that’s what allows them to be “first.”. But it looks like they are a dying breed of delegate selection.

    ETA. Thank goodness for that! Good riddance.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Oh, good. I was worried about that.

  34. 34
  35. 35
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: Ha. Actually, that report made me worry. Bigot hands off to Dummy for granular implementation? Run for the hills!

  36. 36
    debbie says:

    Who thinks having an empty suit be the primary salesman is a good idea?

  37. 37
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: The Conservative Party of the UK?

  38. 38
    Baud says:

    @debbie:

    At this moment, a large plurality of Democratic primary voters. That could easily change, however.

  39. 39
    debbie says:

    @Immanentize:

    Do you think they would beat up on a man as much as they have on May?

  40. 40
    Immanentize says:

    @debbie: Yes

  41. 41
    rikyrah says:

    skeptical brotha 🌈 (@skepticalbrotha) Tweeted:
    so is every male Democrat that doesn’t want to be historical footnote running for president this year? that’s what it feels like. these candidacies feel like a version of mansplaining, which nobody freaking asked for or needs. https://twitter.com/skepticalbrotha/status/1125277879422599170?s=17

  42. 42
    rikyrah says:

    Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) Tweeted:
    .@KamalaHarris in her keynote speech at the NAACP convention: “Let’s say this loud and clear: without voter suppression, Stacey Abrams would be the governor of Georgia, Andrew Gillum is the governor of Florida.” https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1125200118536445952?s=17

  43. 43
    rikyrah says:

    Sahil Kapur (@sahilkapur) Tweeted:
    At the NAACP meeting, @KamalaHarris calls for “a new Voting Rights Act” that includes automatic voter registration and Election Day as a national holiday.

    “We need to fight back against Republicans who suppress our constitutional right to vote.” https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1125200553523412992?s=17

  44. 44
    rikyrah says:

    ᎠᏌNᎬᎷYᎢᎻᎪNᏩ™️ (@Kris_Sacrebleu) Tweeted:
    Me to 11yr old son; “do you know what *eradicated* means?

    11yr old: “yes, of course”

    Me: “ok, use it in a sentence”

    11yr old: “Measles would be fully eradicated if not for idiot parents who don’t vaccinate their children”

    Me: 🤗 https://twitter.com/Kris_Sacrebleu/status/1124853818296942592?s=17

  45. 45
    waratah says:

    The contrast between Biden and the young energetic candidates will really show during the debates. I closed from a Beto live in Facebook to find Joe and the contrast was striking.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    rikyrah says:

    @Raven:
    Happy 🐟🐠🐡

  48. 48
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Raven: Must be some high class fish. How spicy do they like their cocktail sauce?

  49. 49
    rikyrah says:

    💅🏽RagingFruitKace🌈 (@FruitKace) Tweeted:
    Seriously y’all 99.7% of the accounts saying Pelosi isn’t doing her job & demanding someone *bolder* are white people (mostly straight but a few white LGBTQ men) who’ve never known a gd day without privilege. If it wasn’t so infuriating, it’d be hilarious. https://twitter.com/FruitKace/status/1124880122937577472?s=17

  50. 50

    This is how I spent my Sunday. It’s not quite there yet, but close.

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    Evan McMullin (@EvanMcMullin) Tweeted:
    The Trumpian idea that you’re the victim if you court the enemy while it’s attacking the country and law enforcement investigates you is *complete* baloney. I can’t believe I even have to say this stuff. https://t.co/mtQkFVgnuh https://twitter.com/EvanMcMullin/status/1125248097364381696?s=17

  52. 52
    Baud says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Whoa. It’s almost like the Earth is moving.

    That’s really nice.

  53. 53
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah:

    Technically, I don’t think bots have a race.

  54. 54
    rikyrah says:

    Is this real life?🍩 (@sensen2011) Tweeted:
    Bernie’s entire strategy was to appeal to the white voters and college bros. Turns out white voters are gravitating towards Biden & college bros are split between Bernie, Beto and Buttigieg. No wonder his poll numbers are tanking. 😂😂 https://twitter.com/sensen2011/status/1125166503257620482?s=17

  55. 55

    @Baud: It may well be moving, it is California after all.

    ETA: Now I’m going to bed.

  56. 56
    satby says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Sun rise, moon rise, and now we have Milky Way rise!

  57. 57
    rikyrah says:

    Ted Lieu (@tedlieu) Tweeted:
    Hey look, @realDonaldTrump has finally figured out that the Mueller Report is quite bad for Trump.

    That’s why @POTUS is so scared of Robert Mueller testifying. But fortunately for the American people, Trump has no legal basis to stop Mueller from testifying. https://t.co/aUdVHe8ZIA https://twitter.com/tedlieu/status/1125167973105192960?s=17

  58. 58
    HinTN says:

    @rikyrah: I love that 11 yo’s spunk.

  59. 59

    @satby: I was going to try to shoot the Milky Way rising and then the sun rise, but I’d had to do that about a month and a half ago and the weather didn’t cooperate. It’s raining right now here.

  60. 60
    satby says:

    Look, I know, Twitter is to civil political discourse what President Trump is to the rule of law.

    Best line in the excerpt.

  61. 61
    rikyrah says:

    Jason Johnson (@DrJasonJohnson) Tweeted:
    Donald Trump cannot win a fair and transparent 2020 election. So it’s foolish for Democrats to think he won’t try to make sure 2020 is NOT fair or transparent with whatever tools are at his disposal https://twitter.com/DrJasonJohnson/status/1125047592948203527?s=17

  62. 62
    rikyrah says:

    Adam Best (@adamcbest) Tweeted:
    Gillibrand, Harris, Klobuchar and Warren: Have NEVER lost an election

    Biden, Booker, Buttigieg, Castro, O’Rourke, Sanders: Have all lost an election

    Maybe we should stop asking if the 2020 women can win and start asking if the 2020 men can? https://twitter.com/adamcbest/status/1125123776579100674?s=17

  63. 63
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Baud: Moving? You won’t get the Republican nomination with sciency talk like that.

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Very nice, Bill. Thanks for sharing.

  64. 64
    Baud says:

    I think Maximum Security threw the race for some hay. #BlackSoxII

  65. 65
    arrieve says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Wow, this is just spectacular Bill. I want this projected on my ceiling as I’m falling asleep.

  66. 66
    Another Scott says:

    @rikyrah: ‘morning.

    Do we suppose that McConnell will ever allow a vote on H.R.1 – For the People Act of 2019?

    It passed in the House:

    Democratic: 234 Yeas 0 Nays
    Republican 0 Yeas 193 Nays

    It’s hard to believe it would be different in the Senate, thus it seems unlikely to come to a vote.

    We need to vote all of McConnell’s team out!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  67. 67
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @rikyrah: Can’t win a fair election? A fair 2016 would’ve had the electoral college beat the orange off his face. Even worse if the media had been fair.

  68. 68
    rikyrah says:

    Bruce Holsinger (@bruceholsinger) Tweeted:
    Holy shit just now on This Week, Bernie Sanders:

    Interviewer: Would you name a woman as a running mate?
    Bernie: I would give very serious consideration to that.
    Interviewer: A person of color?
    Bernie [long, bizarre pause]. It’s too premature to talk about that. https://twitter.com/bruceholsinger/status/1125031530022281217?s=17

  69. 69
    rikyrah says:

    Elizabeth May (@_ElizabethMay) Tweeted:
    So far i’ve seen little indication that the democrats are trying to win the senate. We’ve got 21 people in the presidential field, and the senate is sitting there being destroyed by Mitch fucking McConnell, who has a 19% approval rating and no credible 2020 challenger. https://t.co/JQKnqd5sH3 https://twitter.com/_ElizabethMay/status/1124646560627941376?s=17

  70. 70
    rikyrah says:

    Kamala Harris (@SenKamalaHarris) Tweeted:
    We can’t let this go unnoticed: last week the White House rolled out a plan to allow health care providers to cite their religious or moral beliefs to *deny* treatments to patients. This is absurd and flies in the face of putting patients first. https://twitter.com/SenKamalaHarris/status/1125089242202427392?s=17

  71. 71

    @rikyrah: What? I’m stunned. The man is supposed to be a politician.

  72. 72
    rikyrah says:

    Tiffany Cross (@TiffanyDCross) Tweeted:
    Grace and decency is one thing. But you cannot meet a bigot in the middle. You cannot love a racist in the hopes that they may one day love you back. By every measure of history, wars are won with fight. Not love. May not be as soft and poetic as some would like. But it’s a fact. https://t.co/PAjCWDXFmf https://twitter.com/TiffanyDCross/status/1125080915728896001?s=17

  73. 73
    Baud says:

    @rikyrah:

    Yep. We’ve definitively proven that love does not trump hate.

  74. 74
    rikyrah says:

    Wakandan War Dog (@Kennymack1971) Tweeted:
    For me…there is no easy button or magic bullet to get Dolt 45 out of office (stop listening to stupid ass progressives)

    It will take hard work, organizing and yes, you will have to play chess not checkers.

    There’s no Infinity gauntlet that gets us out of this. https://twitter.com/Kennymack1971/status/1125044683053371393?s=17

  75. 75
    Kay says:

    This narrative was set by April 16th and they won’t be veering from it:

    Maureen Dowd
    ‏Verified account
    @maureendowd
    Apr 16
    More
    The Rematch: Bernie Sanders vs. a Clinton Loyalist

    They’ll do “compare with Clinton” for the next 12 months, and Biden is tailor made for that. The NYTimes is absolutely obsessed with hatred for the Clintons.

    It’s institutional- you can tell because it was handed down to the generation of political reporters who came after Dowd based her entire career on it. Some of them aren’t even old to have been marinated in it in real life- they had to pick it from the place itself.

    Their political reporting is lousy. I don’t understand the resistance to admitting this among liberals. You can like their other reporting and still admit their political reporting is lousy. It is. Go look at the Washington Post coverage of the D candidates (ALL the D candidates) and compare. One is a narrative story line and the other is reporting on what they say and do.

  76. 76
    rikyrah says:

    Wakandan War Dog (@Kennymack1971) Tweeted:
    The media has already shown you repeatedly they don’t have what it takes to truly hold this plotting terror attack by federal prosecutors. Judge says govt. haspecially if he isn’t removed from office?

    While you’re raging at Pelosi and Democrats that’s what they’re up against. https://twitter.com/Kennymack1971/status/1125046729911480320?s=17

  77. 77
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @rikyrah: Hmmmm…. Methinks the Hippocratic oath says otherwise.

  78. 78
    rikyrah says:

    Ethan Grey (@_EthanGrey) Tweeted:
    A new study confirms that Iowa went from Obama to Trump not because of economic anxiety, but rather because white voters responded accordingly to Trump’s nativist, anti-immigrant, and racist appeals. https://t.co/Vw3MJSAwAz https://t.co/MLOJnUTDNT https://twitter.com/_EthanGrey/status/1124852435082780673?s=17

  79. 79
    Chyron HR says:

    @rikyrah:

    Maybe you haven’t heard, but Bernie was the leader of the civil rights movement and was basically like a father to MLK, maybe you haven’t heard that.

  80. 80
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Who is the Clinton loyalist? Neera?

  81. 81
    Kay says:

    @Baud:

    Yes. I don’t even like Joe Biden and I can see their coverage of him is negative, but that was set in motion by tax day and it won’t change. They want a “rematch”- Trump v Clinton.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    Plato says:

    Reminder: Today is the deadline House Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler has set for A.G. Barr to hand over the full, unredacted Mueller report.This is apparently Nadler's final offer. He has said the Committee will move to contempt proceedings if Barr does not comply.— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) May 6, 2019

  84. 84
    Baud says:

    @Kay:

    Thanks. The NYT helped take down the Democratic nominee and is now profiting handsomely for their efforts. They won’t change their culture. We just have to figure out how to overcome them.

  85. 85
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Baud: The main line I’ve been hearing about Warren from the Sanders supporters is that, going by primary polls and head-to-head polls, Warren is clearly going nowhere, so Warren fans need to drop her ASAP and switch to Sanders, who is the ideologically closest candidate who actually stands a chance, so they can stop Joe Biden. Basically, they see Warren as the spoiler in a Biden vs. Bernie race.

    There’s also Bhaskar Sunkara’s similar line that Warren is sort of a fake Bernie, just the wannabe candidate for establishment people who want some of that Bernie goodness but can’t commit to going all the way (or who are trying to sabotage Bernie’s campaign).

  86. 86
    plato says:

    @Another Scott: 100% nays from the rethugs on voting reforms? They want apartheid amurkkka, don’t they?

  87. 87
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Matt McIrvin: And somebody who has actually, you know, accomplished something.

  88. 88
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Warren is clearly going nowhere, 

    She’s caught up with Bernie in the latest polling, so I don’t know how much longer that argument will hold.

  89. 89
    Chyron HR says:

    @Baud:

    Based on 2016 I assume that, “She’s a filthy [sex worker],” is the backup argument.

  90. 90
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @OzarkHillbilly: Also, if you ask them what down sides Warren has relative to Sanders, they always eventually seem to come around to the idea that Warren stabbed Sanders in the back in 2016 by endorsing Clinton (IIRC, she waited until quite late; it was at the point that Sanders had zero chance of getting the nomination). If you’re not a Sanders loyalist in the first place it doesn’t carry much weight.

    I don’t know. I am a bit disturbed by the polls that seem to show Warren doing worse than most of the other candidates in head-to-head matchups against Trump, but maybe this kind of poll question is premature. But I get the impression that most non-political-junkies still just associate her with the Native American flap (that is, Trump’s perpetual banging on “Pocahontas” worked perfectly–I don’t even think it’s the DNA-test incident, that’s really inside baseball), so maybe she’s done.

  91. 91
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Baud: Maybe Wilmer’s voters should consider backing somebody who can actually win?

  92. 92
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    Biden isn’t Clinton’s VP
    He was Obama’s 😠😠

  93. 93
    plato says:

    Reminder: Today is the deadline that Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin set for telling the House Ways and Means Committee whether he is going to give them Trump's tax returns.— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) May 6, 2019

  94. 94
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I am a bit disturbed by the polls that seem to show Warren doing worse than most of the other candidates in head-to-head matchups against Trump,

    As am I, tho I’m not sure if I should give any weight to them. Perceptions get carved in stone fairly early, so as time goes on and they become clearer it is something to consider.

  95. 95
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @Baud: Which polling is that? The only one I can find showing that is one Quinnipiac poll.

  96. 96
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud: It was always a dangerous argument because if/when Warren caught up to Bernie, the argument gets flipped — people should really abandon Bernie for Warren because he is falling like a rock. She is a winner, he is a loser. Get with the winning team!

  97. 97
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Chyron HR: Wilmer also invented Hip Hop music.

  98. 98
    Immanentize says:

    @Matt McIrvin:
    One recent high quality poll.

    I cannot for the life of me understand why you are saying Warren is done.

    If Warren is done, then will you also agree/claim Biden has won the nomination?

  99. 99
    Baud says:

    @Matt McIrvin:

    That one showed her slightly ahead, but I thought there were other polls that showed her essentially slightly behind (within MoE).

  100. 100
    Chyron HR says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:

    Well, actually, hip-hop was invented by Kraftwerk so that one’s not as farfetched.

    OHHHHHHHHHH I WENT THERE

  101. 101
    Immanentize says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    I’ m pretty sure I saw Sanders perform at the New York City Fresh Festival in 1985 with Curtis Blow — I think even back then his lyrics were
    “These are the fakes, fake it up, fake it up….”

  102. 102
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    You are assuming a level of intellectual consistency that I think is unwarranted.

  103. 103
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @rikyrah:

    He barely tolerated the suggestion of a female running mate, but pulled the ejection seat when asked about POC

    I’m shocked! I’m shocked!

  104. 104
    Immanentize says:

    @Chyron HR:
    Everyone knows Blondie created hip hop. I saw it on MTV!

  105. 105
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    I try. It’s what I do for a living.

  106. 106

    @OzarkHillbilly: I feel odd saying this, but to me Warren’s breezy manner makes her feel light weight, like she lacks gravitas. I know she’s a woman of great intellect, substance, and accomplishment, but when I try to picture her on a debate stage against Trump, I think it might be hard for that to come across.

  107. 107
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    I’m wondering if that is a gendered response? I’ve seen her many times — as my Senator, as a colleague professor. To me she comes across as accessible, but smart and tough.

    But my reaction is certainly a liberal academic bubble perspective and likely gendered as well.

  108. 108
    Peale says:

    @Kay: so does Trump, really. God, if it’s a woman, it’s another Clinton, if it’s Biden it’s another Clinton. If it’s a Senator, it’s Clinton. Inslee, well, he’s another Clinton because there’s an ‘I’ And an “N” in his name.

  109. 109
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Chyron HR:Little known fact: Wilmer gave Gil Scott Heron the “whitey is on the moon” hook.

  110. 110

    T regime is setting the stage to deport green card holders who used any kind of federal aid for which they were eligible. Okay legal eagles of Balloon Juice tell me how you can be penalized for something that was legal when you did it.

  111. 111
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Immanentize: Nah – VH1 tells me Blondie created Punk

  112. 112
  113. 113
    Josie says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    I have the same impression. The only one who feels to me like she could hold up in a debate with Trump is Harris. He doesn’t seem to be able to get under her skin.

  114. 114

    @Immanentize: Yes, I think it’s hard for a woman to project strength without being perceived as distastefully unfeminine. I think Harris does it well though.

  115. 115
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:
    Adding, I worry she will be perceived not as being breezy, but scoldy.

  116. 116
    David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch says:

    @Baud: Bernie Woulda Won the Kentucky Derby

  117. 117
    Immanentize says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch:
    You know, she was quite the genre creator and trend setter. She also created the Playboy Bunny costume for Hef.

  118. 118
    Immanentize says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: @Josie:
    I completely agree about Harris. It seems Trump is ignoring her? But she has the calm and seriousness to cut him up. And she works at knowing the details such that, as rikyrah says, she will bring the receipts.

  119. 119
    Peale says:

    @schrodingers_cat: so dry that the water evaporates before I finish my shower. I don’t so much sweat as desiccate. I think I’ll be coming home the largest hunk of jerky the world has ever seen.

  120. 120
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: @Immanentize: Perceptions are, imo, largely formed on the subconscious level, they don’t always make sense, especially to others.

  121. 121
    MomSense says:

    @Josie:

    My youngest said the same thing yesterday. First he said that her experience is more relevant than Biden’s and then he said that she is the only person who will be able to turn trump’s bullying attempts back on him because she doesn’t get flustered or intimidated.

    He keeps calling her nasty but it doesn’t stick because she has real warmth in her smile and presence. I also that her framing in her speak truth and fearless messaging is key to the contrast with trump.

  122. 122
    Immanentize says:

    @Peale: New diet plan for Americans tired of giving up carbs?

  123. 123
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    Okay legal eagles of Balloon Juice tell me how you can be penalized for something that was legal when you did it.

    It’s trump. Laws don’t apply to him, just ask any Republican.

  124. 124
    johnnybuck says:

    @David 🎅🎄Merry Christmas🎄🎅 Koch: But what about the KENTUKY derby?

  125. 125
    Immanentize says:

    @MomSense:
    Nasty? Is that what Trump calls Harris? That just doesn’t work. The nickname is successful when it is based in fact. I think Trump now thinks his nicknames create fact. Like “Sleepy Joe Biden” really makes no sense to me. That’s not how people think of him.

  126. 126
    MomSense says:

    @Immanentize:

    Rapture be pure
    Take a tour through the sewer
    Don’t strain your brain
    Paint a train
    You’ll be singing it in the rain

    Kinda like Seuss hip hop but I love her just the same

  127. 127
    MomSense says:

    @Immanentize:

    I hope he says it to her face and she just responds with “the look”

    ETA She gets under the skin of all the racist, white dudes like no other. Sessions, Barr, Kavanaugh – they all sputter when she questions them.

  128. 128
    rikyrah says:

    — 𝐁𝐑𝐄𝐀𝐊𝐈𝐍𝐆 𝐁𝐀𝐁𝐘 𝐍𝐄𝐖𝐒 —

    Duchess Meghan went into labour in the early hours of this morning, Buckingham Palace confirm. Prince Harry was by her side. More details to follow. pic.twitter.com/KKDazb6AnW

    — Omid Scobie (@scobie) May 6, 2019

  129. 129
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:
    Constitution says you can’t be punished for things that were legal when you did them — so say the ex post facto clauses in the Constitution (Art.I sec. 9 — Congress; and sec. 10 — states cannot make ex post facto laws.)

  130. 130
    Immanentize says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    I will say, however, that this particular issue comes from the fact that immigrants — including visa holders and permanent residents — agree (contract) not to be a financial burden on the state/nation. I think that is where Trumpco see an opening.

  131. 131
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Don’t tell me, I’ve actually read the damn thing, tell Republicans.

  132. 132
    Barbara says:

    @Matt McIrvin: That’s some serious mansplaining.

  133. 133
    Immanentize says:

    @MomSense:
    Fun facts about the rapture video:
    1) Fab Five Freddy is in the video (the tall thin dude in the top hat) and
    2) So is Basquiat, the artist — he’s painting on the wall behind Debbie Harry at one point.

    I was a big fan of early punk Blondie — I even have an underground album (remember those?) from an early concert in LA. X Offender is still one of my favorite songs

  134. 134
    WaterGirl says:

    @rikyrah: Oh my god, that’s so transparent. Intended as a dog whistle, or just showing his true (racist) colors?

  135. 135

    Reuters story.

    From the article
    According to federal policy, many permanent residents do not qualify for public benefits unless they have had a green card for five years, making it unlikely they could be targeted for deportation on the basis of “public charge” even under the draft rule.

    But dozens of states have looser rules – for instance, allowing pregnant women and children who are permanent residents to access Medicaid without a waiting period.

    Party of family values wants to penalize pregnant women and children.

  136. 136
    Baud says:

    @Immanentize:

    I think the statute says “public charge.” Seems like a stretch to say that extends to any financial benefit.

  137. 137
    Immanentize says:

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    I’ve actually read the damn thing

    An act soon to be criminalized….

  138. 138

    @Immanentize: Long term visas like work visa and student visa holders are not even eligible for any benefits even right now. And that is true for most permanent residents for the first five years of being a permanent resident. The only exceptions are children, people over 65 and pregnant women.

  139. 139
    Immanentize says:

    @Baud:
    It’s unclear, so they will use it to create maximum pain until a judge stops them. Sadly, deportations are handled by immigration judges — i.e. employees of the DOJ — in the first instance.

  140. 140

    @Baud: They have been trying some version of this since he took office.
    Also legal permanent residents working in the marijuana industry in the states it is legal are being prevented from being naturalized.

    Its not just the “illegals” T and company are against.

  141. 141
    Immanentize says:

    @schrodingers_cat:
    There are quite a few exemptions, for example, in SNAP programs (like p.r.s who have young kids, I think.)

    But even with the 5 year limit, that is a whole heck of a lot of folks who may be targeted.

  142. 142
    WaterGirl says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: Kinsey gaffe? He accidentally told the truth.

  143. 143
    Immanentize says:

    @WaterGirl:
    OT, but it’s so nice to see you here.

  144. 144

    @Immanentize: I have included them in the exemption in my comment above. The whole point is to create an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty.
    So not satisfied with stealing children from asylum seekers T wants to steal children from permanent residents. And Mayor B and Amy Klobuchar want to hug it out with T supporters?
    Thanks but no thanks.

  145. 145
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Immanentize: Classified “Top Secret” with retroactive sentencing penalties of up to 5 years in a reeducation camp. Except for the sacred 14 words of course:

    the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

  146. 146
    Citizen_X says:

    we have to support each other, not divide.

    Sure, but here come Uncle Joe Sansa and Feel the Dragonbernie Targaryen to fuck things up.

  147. 147
    Peale says:

    @schrodingers_cat: pretty much all who arrived as refugees would end up stuck

  148. 148
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Especially those Swedish and Norwegian immigrants. //

  149. 149

    @Peale: Indeed. And is ICE going to knock on doors and snatch children from their parents put the parents in a vehicle and take them away? This is getting more and more Nazi like.

  150. 150
    Cacti says:

    @debbie:

    Who thinks having an empty suit be the primary salesman is a good idea?

    Don’t worry. Pete Buttigieg won’t be the nominee.

  151. 151

    @Peale: I know many F-1 and J-1 (student and exchange scholars) used WIC when they were students. Are they fair game? I have no idea.

  152. 152
    rikyrah says:

    IT’S A BOY!!!

  153. 153
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    T regime is setting the stage to deport green card holders who used any kind of federal aid for which they were eligible. Okay legal eagles of Balloon Juice tell me how you can be penalized for something that was legal when you did it.

    They are phucking evil.

  154. 154
    James E Powell says:

    @plato:

    100% nays from the rethugs on voting reforms? They want apartheid amurkkka, don’t they?

    The Republicans could announce that it is their intention to deny voting rights to black people. Their approval among white voters would go up five points.

  155. 155
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    Judge who sentenced man to 241 years meets with lawmakers seeking his clemency

    A judge who sentenced a man to more than two centuries in prison now says that man deserves to be freed. Judge Evelyn Baker is joined by numerous House members and others lobbying for clemency for Bobby Bostic.

    “I will talk to anybody and everyone who is in a position to help undo an injustice,” said Judge Baker.

    Baker sentenced Bostic to 241 years in prison after a string of crimes in 1995. Now 40, Bostic would not be eligible for parole until the age of 112.

    “We had that whole concept of the violent predator juveniles. What we didn’t have was the knowledge from science in terms of brain development in adolescents,” said Baker of when she sentenced Bostic. “The law said he is a certified juvenile, therefore can be treated as an adult. Bobby was far from being an adult. He was a 16-year-old kid and I treated him as if he were a hardened adult criminal. I know now that was wrong.”

    Judge Baker traveled this week to Jefferson City to meet with Representative Nick Schroer (R-O’Fallon), who earlier this year began gathering lawmakers’ signatures on a letter asking Governor Mike Parson (R) to grant clemency to Bostic. About 50 legislators have signed that letter and Schroer said more have committed to, but he put the effort on hold while the clemency process is advancing.

  156. 156

    @rikyrah: That’s why I just can’t with those running for D nomination who want us to understand T voters.

  157. 157
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Immanentize: I read something more than a year ago about a Trump admin proposal to target legal immigrants that included provisions to go after people who sponsor immigrants and collect any public benefits the immigrants have used from the sponsors. That’s another facet of Trump’s wholesale assault on immigration — targeting U.S. citizens who serve as sponsors. It also has the side benefit (from the GOP perspective) of painting people who use public benefits as deadbeats on the dole.

    Now, if this were really about saving money for U.S. taxpayers, the administration would go after the real deadbeats by, say, funding an IRS unit to pursue wealthy tax cheats like the Mercers, who allegedly owe billions in back taxes. But as we all know, it’s not about saving money for U.S. taxpayers at all.

  158. 158
    JR says:

    @Chyron HR: Afrikaa Bambataa came well after Sugar Hill records was making hay on Chic baselines.

  159. 159
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @rikyrah:

    IT’S A BOY!!!

    I was just coming to tell you that in case you hadn’t heard! Congratulations to the Sussexes!

  160. 160
    MomSense says:

    @Immanentize:

    I know you wouldn’t go
    You’d watch my heart burst then
    You’d step in
    I wanted to know so I asked
    You just had to laugh

    I listened to those albums so much I still know all the lyrics to the songs.

    I still love rip her to shreds

  161. 161
    joel hanes says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Nonsense.

    Rap was invented by Meridith Willson, a white boy from Iowa
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ9U4Cbb4wg

  162. 162
    Mike in DC says:

    The field will narrow quickly on its own without candidates needing to trade hard shots.
    Reasons:
    1) Only so many debate spots
    2) Donor pool/money is finite and it’s hard to raise money when you’re polling at 0-1%.
    3) Media coverage for everyone past the top 5-10 is really scant. Hard to build momentum with no money, no coverage and no debate seat.

  163. 163
    Cacti says:

    There’s a lot of confusion about Bernie’s role in the creation of hip hop. Here’s the truth:

    While he did not create the genre, he can largely be credited as one of the first hip hop artists to have broad crossover success with white audiences. This happened when he teamed up with his childhood friends Joseph “Run” Simmons and Jason “Jam Master Jay” Mizell to form the chart-topping group Run-BMC.

  164. 164
  165. 165
    rikyrah says:

    @WaterGirl:

    so good to see you :)

  166. 166
    rikyrah says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    @rikyrah: That’s why I just can’t with those running for D nomination who want us to understand T voters.

    me either.

  167. 167
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Cacti: OK, that was funny.

  168. 168
    Chyron HR says:

    @Cacti:

    The importance of Bernie’s seminal work, “Nautilus”, cannot be understated.

  169. 169
    zhena gogolia says:

    @rikyrah:

    I love the horses in the background!

  170. 170
    tobie says:

    A propos of nothing: I was driving around yesterday in the most rural county of Maryland and saw in the distance an interesting looking chapel with a turret that I normally associate with a fortress, not a church. Turns out the chapel was build around 1800. The door was open so in curiosity I walked in and a mass was being conducted in Spanish, to which I was immediately and warmly welcomed. It dawned on me then that every single one of the farms uses migrant/immigrant labor and yet the owners all vote for Trump. They KNOW the people they are hurting and don’t care. That is the very definition of cruelty.

  171. 171
    opiejeanne says:

    @joel hanes: That is patter, not rap. Pirates of Penzance got there a bit before Professor Harold Hill.

  172. 172
    rikyrah says:

    @tobie:

    They KNOW the people they are hurting and don’t care. That is the very definition of cruelty.

    yep.
    Tell the truth.

  173. 173
    J R in WV says:

    @Baud:

    Neera is this cycle’s DWS for Wilmerites.

    OK, now share with us who exactly DWS is? oh! Debbie Wasserman Schultz?

    Good morning all, tho a late one from me! Blech, ozarkhillbilly!

  174. 174
    J R in WV says:

    @rikyrah:

    Interviewer: Would you name a woman as a running mate?
    Bernie: I would give very serious consideration to that.
    Interviewer: A person of color?
    Bernie [long, bizarre pause]. It’s too premature to talk about that.

    So… this dude is a stone racist, shares that with Mr Trump? Right? Right !!!! phuck that rat basturd.

  175. 175
    joel hanes says:

    @opiejeanne:

    It was a joke.
    Apparently not a good one.

  176. 176
    Brachiator says:

    @rikyrah:

    IT’S A BOY!!!

    Baby Idris Barak Henry Charles?

  177. 177
    opiejeanne says:

    @joel hanes: It was a good joke, made me snort because I knew what the link would go to. Chyron’s joke made me laugh too. I was being pedantic. I looked up patter songs and it seems the form goes back to the Greeks. Who knew? Certainly not me.

  178. 178
    Brachiator says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    T regime is setting the stage to deport green card holders who used any kind of federal aid for which they were eligible. Okay legal eagles of Balloon Juice tell me how you can be penalized for something that was legal when you did it.

    You have to be Trump, or believe in Trump, and you have to be a full on nativist bigot.

  179. 179
    Josie says:

    @rikyrah:

    He is who we thought he was.

  180. 180
    Kathleen says:

    @Chyron HR: Bernie stayed pure and never went arena corporate.

  181. 181
    cckids says:

    @schrodingers_cat:

    That’s why I just can’t with those running for D nomination who want us to understand T voters.

    I agree with that Dying of Whiteness author – we need to understand them to the extent that we’ve got to get that THEY HATE US, THEY WILL NEVER VOTE DEM, THEY WILL LITERALLY DIE BEFORE THEY JOIN US. That is the only understanding we need.

    Sorry to be so late, damn west coast time.

  182. 182
    Bill Arnold says:

    @J R in WV:
    FWIW Sanders may have had Warren and Harris in mind and may not like Harris for other reasons. (E.g. policy) Not saying this is the case, just that it is a possibility.

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