‘Contrarian’ Luzers Open Thread: When Horseshoe Theory Catches Them Where It Hurts

Confession time: I voted for John Anderson in 1976 1980, because I was young & furious about Jimmy Carter’s ‘Ehh, anti-choice legislation is just something we’ll have to live with’ stance. That was the year Ronald Reagan got elected. Odds are that Reagan would’ve been shoehorned into office regardless of the Anderson protest vote, but that was a lesson for 21-year-old me: Protest votes can have ugly consequences.

Despite that warning, in 2000, protest voters chose Ralph Nader — and that gave the Repub ratfvckers enough leverage that we ended up with George Bush.

Despite that warning, in 2016, the staunch protest voters refused to ‘waste’ their precious artisanal ballot option on the filthy centrist Hillary Clinton — which gave the Repub ratfvckers and their Russian helpers the chance to install… well…

ATTENTION “LEFTIST” PROTEST VOTERS: The field experiment has been run at three intervals over the past forty years, and it’s failed ever more catastrophically every time. Stop making the same mistake!






164 replies
  1. 1
    Obvious Russian Troll says:

    Reagan was elected in 1976? I thought it was 1980.

  2. 2
    debbie says:

    Eleven-dimensional chess isn’t as easy as you thought, huh, kids?

  3. 3
    eemom says:

    I voted for John Anderson in 1976

    I think you mean 1980.

  4. 4
    Barbara says:

    I am trying to understand how someone who didn’t hold a job until the age of 40 has any working class cred, superficial or otherwise.

  5. 5
    Baud says:

    I agree with everything in this post, except the wrong date.

  6. 6
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    I voted for John Anderson in 1976, because I was young & furious about Jimmy Carter’s ‘Ehh, anti-choice legislation is just something we’ll have to live with’ stance. That was the year Ronald Reagan got elected.

    Do you mean 1980?

  7. 7
    khead says:

    Fuck those folks. No, really, fuck those folks.

  8. 8

    Erm, actually, the Carter-Anderson-Reagan election was 1980. I was a junior in college when it happened.
    And you’re right. Anderson didn’t make a difference as the combined votes to him and Carter didn’t equal Reagan’s.

  9. 9
    Baud says:

    @khead:

    You know what? They exist, and we can’t control them. The only thing we can do is work to build a stable coalition that doesn’t require their help.

  10. 10
    Wim says:

    No, you didn’t vote for Anderson in 1976. You would have had to vote for him in 1980. No, Reagan didn’t win in 1976. Reagan won in 1980.

  11. 11
    Zelma says:

    I learned that lesson way back in 1968. I had been “clean for Gene,” had gone door to door in the Connecticut suburbs, became a local committee person, and was horrified by Chicago. I was going to sit out the election. To hell with Humphrey! As I was mouthing off in the dining hall to that effect, an African American law student (one of a handful at Yale) I knew came over and almost begged me and my friends to reconsider. He asked us to think about what a Nixon election would mean to the progress – however limited – that had been made. How right he was.

    I have never voted for either a Republican or a third party candidate since. I am as far left as an old lady can be but I know that in our two party system, it’s a Democrat or disaster.

  12. 12
    Suzanne says:

    The Left keeps falling victim to the fantasy that there are silent hordes of people who agree with them and will vote if only properly incentivized to do so. This is an easy fallacy to fall for, and lots of people do it all the time.

    “That’s not enough, we need a majority!” Truer words…..

  13. 13
    dmsilev says:

    It helps if you realize that the group dubbed the Extremely Online Left is, by and large, so deeply wrapped up in their own sense of self-righteousness that they’ve forgotten how to actually, you know, convince people who don’t already agree with them.

  14. 14
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    I got a text from the Bernie people yesterday. Yea me!

  15. 15
    Chyron HR says:

    @Barbara:

    “Working class cred” is the the politically correct way to say “white nationalist gun humper”.

  16. 16
    Baud says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Are you on their list of the unconverted?

  17. 17
    Chyron HR says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Death threat, rape threat, or both?

  18. 18
    zzyzx says:

    Has anyone mentioned that 1976 is the wrong year yet? ;)

    I still believe that progressive policy can only be enacted going bottom up not top down. You have to take over school boards and city governments and try things there. If it works, it’ll go mainstream. That’s a lot of work though and we’d rather just try to win one office even though that’s useless in getting major policy change.

  19. 19
    dmsilev says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: They send me emails asking for money all the time. I wonder whose email list they bought that included my name; I sure didn’t give his campaign any money last time round.

    No texts yet, thankfully.

  20. 20
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Baud: I have no Idea. They better obey my fuck off response.

    @Chyron HR: Huh?

  21. 21
    Chyron HR says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m (only half seriously) suggesting that their voter outreach to Democrats is threatening text messages.

  22. 22
    khead says:

    @Baud:

    And treat them with the ridicule they deserve. I think that’s important. See LG&M earlier.

  23. 23
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Zelma:

    I was mouthing off about how I couldn’t vote for Bill Clinton because of the welfare “reform,” and an older and wiser friend said, “You have to vote for Bill Clinton.” I respected him so much that I just obeyed without really thinking about it, and later I realized he was right.

  24. 24

    @dmsilev:

    This. every BernieBro – and I call them that because they are – believe in the perfection of their Utopia but fail to understand that it doesn’t happen overnight, not even in revolutions. And even revolutions never go the way you want them to (just ask the French Revolutionists who had to watch Napoleon crown himself emperor).

    we’re dealing with people who obsess over an absolutist world-view at the expense of electing people who *can* make sure the bad guys don’t make things worse.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    I do hope we end up with someone better than Biden, but I’m not going to freak out if it is him.

  26. 26
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Chyron HR: They were inviting me to a meeting held yesterday, June 4th.

  27. 27
    zhena gogolia says:

    @Baud:

    Me either. At least it will make my husband happy.

  28. 28
    JR says:

    Leftism became a thing sometime ~1790.

    It didn’t work for those guys either.

  29. 29
    Baud says:

    @khead:

    Yep. Listening to people like that is like listening to Dick Cheney on national security issues. People need to be discredited.

  30. 30
    geg6 says:

    @zzyzx:

    I totally agree, but Bernistas can’t be bothered with all that work, much like their hero, who never had a job until he was middle aged. Meanwhile, around here in my little corner of a Western PA, women, white and black and brown, are doing that work and getting elected. Maybe we should listen to them and forget about the self-proclaimed progressives.

  31. 31
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @zzyzx:
    Seriously. As powerful as the executive branch is (and it probably is too powerful these days), it can still be hamstrung.

    The only “good” thing I can imagine from a Sanders nomination and general election loss would be to see his more strident supporters eat crow about how wrong they were about “Bernie woulda won”. Of course, that would be horrible since Trump would still be president and not something I’d want to see happen. I’d vote for him if he was the nominee. I just think he’ll lose

  32. 32
    Baud says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    see his more strident supporters eat crow about how wrong they were about “Bernie woulda won”.

    You really are young.

  33. 33
    debbie says:

    @Baud:

    I won’t freak out, but I will be disappointed.

  34. 34
    zzyzx says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: the executive branch is only powerful if the Senate is willing to play along.

    The thing I always think about the Senator from VT is that by now all of his supporters would be calling him a sellout when it turns out he wasn’t able to unilaterally make college free.

  35. 35

    I understand there’s panic about Biden… but then again there’s a shitton of panic about Warren and Harris and Beto and Booker and Mayor Pete and yes even Bernie.

    Some of it is media-borne from the Concerned Trolls ™ who are ALWAYS concerned the Democrats will NEVER appeal to “true working-class Americans” (i.e. racist whites). Some of it is from a progressive Left whose fearmongering about Centrists can cause a backlash against even their preferred progressive candidates. And some of it is just Democratic voters who have been BURNED far too often by unenthusiastic or muddled campaigns (Hillary’s, Gore’s, Kerry’s, Dukakis’).

    But for the LOVE OF GOD, people. We should be able to realize the hell we are in right now and the need for voter turnout regardless of progressive or centrist views. We should also be trying to get the 100 million unregistered Americans to sign up and vote Democratic.

    It would really help if the Democratic Party took a minute to gather its bearings, and then run Howard Dean’s full-50-state campaign program that won them Congress in 2006: Which means GETTING GOOD CANDIDATES TO CHALLENGE EVERY SENATE, HOUSE, AND STATE SEAT! GET IT DONE, DEMS. /rage

  36. 36
    khead says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Yes, McGovern’s loss led to a long period of Democratic rule here in the States.

  37. 37
    Baud says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    I was quite enthusiastic about Hillary’s campaign TYVM.

    Of course, I didn’t realize the full extent of the forces conspiring against us.

  38. 38
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @Obvious Russian Troll: @eemom: @Omnes Omnibus: @Wim: @Wim: @zzyzx: The memory is the second thing to go…

  39. 39
    JPL says:

    @debbie: Earlier I said he better pick an exciting VP, because he certainly isn’t.

  40. 40
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Confession time: I voted for John Anderson in 1976, because I was young & furious about Jimmy Carter’s ‘Ehh, anti-choice legislation is just something we’ll have to live with’ stance. That was the year Ronald Reagan got elected.

    Pretty sure you mean 1980, not 1976.

    ETA: As about a thousand other commenters have previously noted!

  41. 41
    Splitting Image says:

    The difference is entirely a matter of understanding a Trump presidency would hurt you versus being confident that it wouldn’t.

    People who understood that Trump would be a catastrophic disaster as President armed with enough Senate votes to confirm his Court nominees did the sensible thing and voted for Hillary Clinton. They are now weighing the candidates according to their electability. Not, as some would have it, their commitment to The Purest Left.

    People who figured that the worst Trump could do would be win a few “culture war” issues that didn’t affect them directly never understood why other people were more enthusiastic about Clinton than they were and don’t understand why they are willing to vote for Biden now.

  42. 42
    dmsilev says:

    @PaulWartenberg: A word of caution, if I may.

    It would really help if the Democratic Party took a minute to gather its bearings, and then run Howard Dean’s full-50-state campaign program that won them Congress in 2006

    Many of the same people who idolize Dean’s 50-state strategy also obsess over DINOs, Blue Dogs, Conservadems, etc. etc. etc. Problem is, you can’t really have one without the other. It makes a huge amount of sense to field plausible candidates across the board, but please recognize that ‘plausible’ is going to mean a good deal more conservative than the party median for a large swath of the country.

  43. 43
    rivers says:

    Longtime lurker and longtime fan of John and the BJ commentariat reporting for duty. In 1968 I was not yet a citizen but I was very involved politically in the events of the time, particularly the antiwar movement. I was speaking to my political mentor (an older woman with whom I worked who was a self-described Marxist) and explaining that none of my friends who were able to vote in the ’68 election could bring themselves to vote for Humphrey, because he was soiled by his allegiance to LBJ (who in those days was seen as the greatest monster possible – how far we’ve fallen!) Anyway she said, no, they must vote for Humphrey. I was so surprised because she was the most radical person I had ever met. And she added, “I have two words for your friends – Supreme Court. Those nine old men will have more effect on your life than any president.” I’m 71 now and I’ve long been a citizen, but every time I vote in a Presidential election, I remember what she said and how right she was.

  44. 44
    Motivated Seller says:

    2000 and 2016 were clear failures of our electoral system. Why do you insist on blaming today’s voters for the failures of a handful of white guys in wigs? The problem is the 18th century electoral system, not the electorate.

  45. 45
    piratedan says:

    on an unrelated note…..

    a huge ty for Dan B.for organizing the Seattle meetup… The venue was incredibly representative of Seattle and it was awesome to meet folks and put faces to names. Spirited conversation, shared remembrances and a good time was had by most (if not all, sorry Mr. Bumper for monopolizing you’re spouses attention) and it was memorable for getting a new recruit courtesy of H. E. Wolf (hiya B’Day Girl!) and having two lurkers delurk for joining us at the gathering and we hope that we encouraged them to share their voices with our unruly chorus.

    TY to the front pagers for helping to make it happen and ty to everyone who commented and considered coming. Also tell Ms. Opiejeanne that H. E. Wolf fulfilled her hug request. I understand pics may be uploaded later for sharing and commentary.

    ty all….

  46. 46

    The man was Vice President for eight years and people are talking about him like he’s a space alien trying to take over the party.

    — Josh Barro (@jbarro) May 4, 2019

  47. 47
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Baud:
    Oh, I know most of them would never admit they were wrong. The idea of getting to sneer, “I told you so” to those idiots would be satisfying up until I realize Trump has another 4 fucking years

  48. 48
    lgerard says:

    Whatever happened to that Howard Schultz guy?

    He seems t have gone the way of that ‘I didn’t do it” kid

  49. 49
    mad citizen says:

    I can’t say I understand all of the 11-dimensional chess theories and Biden/Wilmer etc., but I can say the 1980 was just before I turned 20. I can’t recall voting for Carter or Anderson–I sure as hell didn’t vote for Reagan, though. I do still have an Anderson for President bumper sticker.

  50. 50
    zhena gogolia says:

    @piratedan:

    I’d love to see pics. I detect a bit of Anna Karenina starting up here.

  51. 51
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @zzyzx:

    The thing I always think about the Senator from VT is that by now all of his supporters would be calling him a sellout when it turns out he wasn’t able to unilaterally make college free.

    That’s another thing I’d like to see: Bernie’s reaction to being called a corporate sellout to his face and his supporters deserting him.

  52. 52
    zhena gogolia says:

    @mad citizen:

    I truly cannot remember whether or not I voted for Anderson. I like to think I wasn’t totally stupid, but I do remember flirting with the idea. It reminds me that we Democrats can never be happy with our own candidate. (except Obama, of course)

  53. 53
    Patricia Kayden says:

    So the good folk at Jacobin want us to do what exactly if Biden is the Democratic nominee? He’ll be a better President than the one currently occupying the White House. That’s good enough for me, especially if he picks a good VP such as Harris or Warren.

  54. 54
    khead says:

    @rivers:

    I’ll never see another Warren Court in my life. Shoot, I wasn’t even alive when it happened. But it was still the most important thing to happen in the United States with respect to the life I have enjoyed up to today. I just turned 50, BTW.

  55. 55
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Motivated Seller:
    It could be both, you know

  56. 56
    Citizen_X says:

    @Motivated Seller: Uh, because the only people who can change that condition are the electorate today?

  57. 57
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Motivated Seller: Because the fucking system has been around for over 200 years and anyone with half a brain could figure out how it works. If they stayed home or voted third party, they either knew or should have known what could happen. This does not apply to people who were prevented from voting.

  58. 58
    NotMax says:

    Anderson ran in ’80.

  59. 59
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @NotMax: It’s been mentioned.

  60. 60
    NotMax says:

    @NotMax

    Darn you, FYWP, for showing me a total of 1 comment on page opening instead of the 50+ that were already there.

  61. 61
    Bailey says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    Yes. All of this.

  62. 62
    westyny says:

    Wilmer whinging is thick over at GOS tonight.

  63. 63
    PST says:

    Yea, I voted for Anderson in 1980 too. It is a lesson I have not forgotten, so I’m glad the Anderson candidacy probably made no difference. Carter would probably have won a few New England states. If Carter is the 2020 nominee, I’ll vote for him.

  64. 64
    NotMax says:

    Open thread?

    As was forced to update to newest Firefox, went searching for themes in line with personal taste and also easier on and more amenable to older eyes than the FF defaults. No doubt may not be everyone’s cuppa, but thought perhaps some might find the one chosen pleasing as well.

  65. 65
    lgerard says:

    @PST: @PST:

    I’d vote for Anderson in 2020 as well. His corpse would be a substantial improvement over the current occupant.

  66. 66
    Harbison says:

    Biden and Sanders are the clear front runners right now: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

    And it looks like Biden and Sander were only separated by 6 points until the time that Biden announced and then his lead really jumped.

    None of the others in the field are even breaking into double digits.

    What’s more, Biden enjoys significantly stronger support among black voters than Harris: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/441320-47-percent-of-black-women-say-theyd-back-biden-poll

    It’s time to trust black women and back Biden.

  67. 67
    James E Powell says:

    @Motivated Seller:

    Why do you insist on blaming today’s voters for the failures of a handful of white guys in wigs?

    Because today’s voters could overcome the failures of the 18th century white guys if they would simply show up and vote D. If one can stop a horrible thing from happening, one has a moral obligation to do so.

  68. 68
    NotMax says:

    @Harbison

    This ‘why even bother having debates or have anyone else campaigning at all?’ mentality is grade AAA bullpuckey.

  69. 69
    Jay says:

    @Harbison:

    It’s way too early to “back anybody” but the ones who inspire you too.

  70. 70
    James E Powell says:

    @Harbison:

    Why is now the time? Why do we have to choose in May 2019?

  71. 71
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @piratedan:

    and considered coming.

    I considered coming. But then I thought a 3,000 mile drive would take a while.

  72. 72
    khead says:

    @Harbison:

    What the hell. I’m bored on a Sunday night so I’ll bite. Plus I’m pissed about the Sixers losing.

    If by “Biden and Sanders are the clear front runners” you mean “Biden is the front runner until any actual votes are counted”, then – yes – Biden is the front runner.

  73. 73
    Dan B says:

    @piratedan: You’re welcome and thanks for providing the excuse! Apologies for the non stop frigid drizzle and the dressed to the nines prom goers that made your polo shirt and my jeans look backwoods. /

  74. 74
    NotMax says:

    @Gin & Tonic

    Yup. Am a decent enough swimmer but not that good.

    :)

  75. 75
    Harbison says:

    @NotMax:

    This could all change after debates, of course. But until then, I will follow the lead of black women.

    In other news, I don’t think any other candidates have addressed this important issue yet: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8xzqmp/bernie-sanders-calls-for-a-national-right-to-repair-law-for-farmers?utm_source=reddit.com

  76. 76
    Barbara says:

    It’s like this: third party voters are the anti-vaxxers of political choices. They usually display solipsism mixed with misguided reasoning — the idea that something worse in the short term, like disease, will bring about a disease free nirvana. Never mind the damaged and dead in the meantime, in the end we will all be better off! It is hard to argue with stupid and impossible to argue with narcissism.

    I voted absentee for Carter in 1980, in the first presidential election I participated in. Really hope it isn’t Bernie or Joe.

  77. 77
    Harbison says:

    @James E Powell:

    Oh, you’re right: I guess I am the first person to post on Balloon Juice regarding the 2020 Democratic Primary.

    I guess I really jumped the gun here.

  78. 78
    Dan B says:

    @Gin & Tonic: The Bumper clan came all the way from the ocean! Lightweight.. and in a horizontal sleet storm!!

  79. 79
    NotMax says:

    @Dan B

    Have now added Frigid Drizzle to the ever growing list of possible band names.

    ;)

  80. 80
    piratedan says:

    @Dan B: didn’t mind the kids outclassing us, was kind of fun to see them there and having a good time, thought they looked great!

  81. 81
    Procopius says:

    Despite that warning, in 2000, protest voters chose Ralph Nader — and that gave the Repub ratfvckers enough leverage that we ended up with George Bush.

    It wasn’t “Repub ratfvckers” who appointed Bush — it was the Republican majority on the Supreme Court. It’s gotten even worse, and with the possibility that the Notorious RBG will have to be replaced we’ve got to destroy the Republican party before that happens. Time is against us.

  82. 82
    Sab says:

    I am wondering who I would vote for if Biden v Weld.

  83. 83
    khead says:

    @Harbison:

    If by “any other candidates” you mean “any other candidates except the two mentioned in the article I linked to”, then – yes – no other candidates have mentioned it.

    Troll better. And be sure to check out my kittehs.

  84. 84
    Dan B says:

    @NotMax: I can see the overflow crowds now!

    And should we start a Go Fund Me for water wings for you? If it would get you to Seattle would be worth it.

  85. 85
    chris says:

    Looks like Bolton is about to wag the dog. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D52H3pkWwAAnvto.jpg

    They’re sending a carrier group towards Iran. Mueller will probably be in front of committee in ten days or so. These things may be related.

  86. 86
    Spanky says:

    @NotMax:

    Have now added Frigid Drizzle to the ever growing list of possible band names.

    I think those were the names of a couple of Frank Zappa’s kids.

  87. 87
    Ruckus says:

    @Harbison:
    What fucking planet are you from?

  88. 88
    Jay says:

    @Ruckus:

    Rumours are he’s an infamous ammosexual troll under a new nym trying out his act here, before he takes it to the main stages when the Campaigns start in earnest.

  89. 89
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    “Nach Hitler, Uns” only works if you have the Red Army occupying your country.

  90. 90
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Ruckus: planet troll!

  91. 91
    cynthia ackerman says:

    @zzyzx:

    I keep hammering that Goldwater in 64 was where this all started. He didn’t have the chops to pull enough votes, but he blazed the trail for fifty-plus years of dingus berry morons.

  92. 92

    @Harbison: Hillary lead Obama in 2008 among Black voters until Obama won primaries.

  93. 93
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Harbison: Ukrainian software developers have largely handled that problem for American farmers.

  94. 94
    SFAW says:

    @NotMax:

    Yup. Am a decent enough swimmer but not that good.

    Wimp. Just get yourself into the Gulf Stream, it’ll zip you right along.

    [Yes, I know in which state you live. So make it the EAC instead.]

  95. 95

    @cynthia ackerman: Probably dates back to Bob Taft(aka Mr. Republican) in the late 40’s/early 50’s.

  96. 96
    SFAW says:

    @Procopius:

    Yes, that mean ol’ Supreme Court stuck its nose in the Florida vote, despite Gore leading the vote tally by 175,000, so Nader’s 97,000 votes were immaterial.

  97. 97
    RAVEN says:

    Hi girls and boys. FIshing is great!

  98. 98
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @RAVEN: You surfcasting mostly?

  99. 99
    RAVEN says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Yea, there isn’t much that you can keep on the boats right now. I had the best day of redfishing I have ever had. My ass it totally whipped and I get to do this for a week.

  100. 100
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Did you tell him to fuck off to the forest?

  101. 101
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @RAVEN: one minute til bedtime!

  102. 102
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They were inviting me to a meeting held yesterday, June 4th.

    Uh, yesterday was May 4th.

  103. 103
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: forget it, he’s rolling

  104. 104
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Uh, I read Omnes as pointing to the incompetence or Dem outreach, so I think that was the point.

  105. 105
    SFAW says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Uh, yesterday was May 4th.

    No, June 4th. Daylight Saving Time works differently in Wisconsin.

  106. 106
    Gin & Tonic says:

    s/of/or. So I join the incompetence brigade.

  107. 107
    SFAW says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    don’t worry about it, he’s rolling

    As long as he doesn’t start talking about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor, we’ll be OK.

  108. 108
    randy khan says:

    @Harbison:

    It’s time to trust black women and back Biden.

    It’s May 5, 2019. It’s not time to make decisions if you’re not totally committed to someone.

    Mind you, I’d be fine with Biden. He’s not likely to be my first choice, but he’d be a huge improvement over the current occupant.

  109. 109
    Harbision says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    That hasn’t slowed Deere down in its legal campaign against farmers.

    The farmers are important, of course, but a sweeping law enacting Sander’s proposals would go a long way to establishing a right to repair in a variety of other sectors. I would love to see it in the automotive sector particularly with respect to diagnostic module

    s.@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    Hmmm, interesting … if true. But in my admittedly small sample (3) of black women with whom I’ve discussed this – there was considerable hostility towards Harris (b/c of how she slept her way into politics). I don’t know how Booker would do — there may be some hostility towards him in that community for the gay “rumor” thing.

  110. 110
    West of the Rockies says:

    @Harbison:

    Or maybe it’s time to trust a black woman and vote for Harris.

  111. 111
    raven says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Yup but that makes it 3:30 am when I wake up and the bait shop doesn’t open until 6! Also, when I took a midday nap I got a hammy cramp that about killed me and I went hack for 3 more hours this evening. My problem is that I stand up way too much and it wears me down. That plus wading out in pretty rough surf beats me up too.

  112. 112
    Harbison says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    Deere is still legally harassing farmers, though. A broadly written statute could do wonders for other sectors like repairing Apple products or generic access to proprietary diagnostic modules in cars.

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    That’s interesting but I haven’t seen any numbers about that. I do know that in the admittedly small circle of black women with whom I discuss politics, there is real apprehension about Harris (for how she slept her way into politics) and Booker for the gay thing. These women are all over 50 and from the rural south so they are probably not representative.

  113. 113
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @SFAW:

    No, June 4th. Daylight Saving Time works differently in Wisconsin.

    Right you are. Plus it’s close enough to Canada that those metric cooties are probably everywhere!

  114. 114
    Harbison says:

    @RAVEN:

    Saw that picture earlier. Looks like a fantastic day. I can’t wait to get to the Outer Banks in a couple of weeks and see if I can get a line out.

    Never done saltwater before (well, my mom tells me I have when I was 4 or 5 [when I was very excited to catch a fish they had planted on my line] but I have no memory of that.

  115. 115
    Jay says:

    @raven:

    Bananna’s, stay hydrated and stretching.

  116. 116
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    The idea of getting to sneer, “I told you so” to those idiots would be satisfying up until I realize Trump has another 4 fucking years

    How many nanoseconds would that sneer last before “4 more years of fascist” whacked you in the brain?

  117. 117
    Raven says:

    @Harbison: The outer banks are incredible. Go out on the Mss Hatteras for a real treat

  118. 118
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay: Banana’s what? What belongs to banana? 😁

  119. 119
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Potassium, silly.

  120. 120
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: Frigid Drizzle Of Our Souls

    Now it’s an emo or black metal band.

  121. 121
  122. 122
    SFAW says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Plus it’s close enough to Canada that those metric cooties are probably everywhere!

    Gosh, you’re right!! I hadn’t even considered that!!

    One of the reasons why they pay you the big bucks, kid.

  123. 123
    J R in WV says:

    @Harbison:

    It’s time to trust black women and back Biden.

    Fuck that for the primaries. In the primaries I get to vote for the best candidate, and in my book, that’s Kamala Harris. NOT Joe Biden!

    Come the general election, if Joe Biden is the nominee, I’ll vote for him and rattle doorknobs for him. But I hope I get to work hard for Senator Harris, instead!

  124. 124
    different-church-lady says:

    @Motivated Seller: That 63 million people were willing to vote for a patently and dangerously unqualified asshole displaying clear signs of being unbalanced is inarguably a failure of the electorate, technical win or not.

  125. 125
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I know that. It is part of what made the text as brilliant as it was.

  126. 126
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @SFAW:

    Yes, I know in which state you live. So make it the EAC instead.

    Grab shell, little dude! RIGHTEOUS! RIGHTEOUS!

  127. 127
    Harbison says:

    @randy khan:

    I see that in one sense. But in another sense the real primary is taking place right now. That is why Sanders and Harris’ attack machines have been up an running for a couple of months now. Anytime anyone else announced, the hacks and pundits would be handed versions of the Oppo research seeded with different lines of attacks and then after it became clear which lines were getting the most traction, everywhere would be hit with waves of information on that attack point. Sanders has been doing this for years and Harris went heavy into lining up pros known for doing this.

    Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. I want someone running on our side who is absolutely ruthless and willing to do whatever it takes to advance her interests. That is the person who is going to get elected. If I had to vote on a candidate based on the result of 1) all specific things they have done in the past minus 2) all the shady, unethical crap they’ve done and lies they’ve told in the past– I am all Warren all day. She is fan-fucking-tastic. But I think she is so well-intentioned that it influences her tactical political judgments and I think that makes her weak.

    If there were a candidate who combined Warren earnest policy positions with Harris’ knife-fighting skills — I would buy an RV and pack up and spend the next 18 months travelling around doing whatever I could to promote her. But now it’s about 60/40 on their chances of victory and that’s too close for me.

    And, finally, this is why the polling is important. The percentages supporting Biden/Sanders are, of course, being driven largely by name recognition. But that is huge. All of the fantastic policy pronouncements coming out now are interesting from a politico-geek perspective, but they mean nothing to 90% of the votors. They simply aren’t making an impact. Biden/Sanders will coast on name recognition until somebody creeps up on them in the polls. Because tossing out policy proposals isn’t a good strategic move from Biden/Sanders now. There is a reason why the cliche is that Candidate X is introducing himself to the American public. Because until there is at least a vague outline of who s/he is in voters’ minds, there is branch to hang the ornament on. And memories work like christmas trees, not movies. If you don’t remember the trunk, the branch the twig, there is nothing to hang the ornament (the memetic content) on. That’s why when you sometimes have a weird flash of memory in your mind (Sitting in your car after first learned that a loved one had died.) you are just processing. Is it being remembered or forgotten is determined by your _reaction_ to the memory. As an aside, to an aside I guess at this point – sit an think for a few minutes where you were when you learned that someone like and aunt or uncle has died. If you can remember for any of them, ask yourself what about the circumstances made you remember it and forget the others. The answer is the level of emotional relationship to the deceased. Simply put, emotion affects and molds memory and the best way to create a positive reaction to a message is to have in place already a positive reaction to the speaker.

    And that, in a nutshell, is why Beto must be crushed into a fine powder and then sprinkled onto a sandy coral beach, and it shouldn’t be too hard to find one that exactly matches his burnt oatmeal intellect. He was a lousy rower, too.

  128. 128
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay:

    Potassium, silly.

    “You can’t like own potassium, man.”

  129. 129
    different-church-lady says:

    I’ve always been a little skeptical on how that “People who currently vote for racist authoritarians will instead vote for far left progessive firebrands if only they were giventhe choice” thing is supposed to work.

  130. 130
    different-church-lady says:

    @Harbison: That doesn’t fit in a nutshell.

  131. 131
    Harbison says:

    @different-church-lady:
    Sometimes understatement is the best statement.

  132. 132
    Harbison says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Depends on the size of the nut. And I am a massive.

  133. 133
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I’ve always been a little skeptical on how that “People who currently vote for racist authoritarians will instead vote for far left progessive firebrands if only they were giventhe choice” thing is supposed to work.

    Narrator: That’s because it doesn’t work. Racist Nazi to flower power hippie isn’t a thing.

  134. 134
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Try telling United Fruit what you can and can’t own.

    Did not go well for Central America.

  135. 135
    J R in WV says:

    @Harbison:

    You are a Massive NUT, fallen quite a ways from the tree also, too.

    Seriously, you’ve commented something like 55 times, counting mentions and replies. You seem to not be able to think… perhaps you should slow down and try it — thinking, that is. Or not. Your choice.

  136. 136
    Irony Abounds says:

    I settled on Anderson from the other direction. When young I was a Republican and voted for Ford in my first Presidential election. In ’80 I was wavering but liked Anderson when he was running as a Republican and stuck with him in the general as an independent. Frankly, I still think he would have been a better President than Carter and definitely better than Ronnie. It was Ronnie who pushed me into the Democratic Party (or perhaps more accurately the Anti-Republican Party).

    As for the current race, I just want to beat Trump, and almost more importantly, regain the Senate. Winning the Presidency will stop the bleeding but not much will get accomplished if the Senate remains in Republican hands.

  137. 137
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay: Are the bananas of the world going to fight the oranges in what will be known as The Great Potassium War? I hope the bananas are ready to take on all comers.

    Here’s a PDF of the alliance they could be fighting.

  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Seems like the only slowing down that might accomplish anything useful would be slowing to a complete stop.

  139. 139
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Banannas are facing extinction once again, so they are desperate, motivated and are backed by Dole and once again, the US Marine Corp.

  140. 140
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay: Potatoes are willing to shoot themselves at the enemy bananas if needed, and they’ll be attacking from at least 10 States. They will not give up their potassium without a fight.

  141. 141
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Potatos should have learned by now not to bring a spud gun, to a gunfight.

  142. 142
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay: The bananas will regret it once watermelon, pumpkin and tomato reinforcements arrive.

  143. 143
    NotMax says:

    @mrmoshpotato

    Will end up having to send in the National Gourd.

  144. 144
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: @Jay: Any retreat paths for the bananas will be artichoked.

  145. 145
    NotMax says:

    @mrmoshpotato

    “All we are saying
    Is give peas a chance”

  146. 146
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: If better reinforcements aren’t available. Peas are low in potassium.

  147. 147
  148. 148
    RinaX says:

    @Suzanne:

    The Left keeps falling victim to the fantasy that there are silent hordes of people who agree with them and will vote if only properly incentivized to do so. This is an easy fallacy to fall for, and lots of people do it all the time.

    “That’s not enough, we need a majority!” Truer words…..

    They also really hate the fact that Dems are just not the same in all parts of the country. I live in Florida, where we had an extremely progressive candidate produce little more than yet another noble loss and very few gains for Dems across the state. This is a place where our recent mayoral race here was dominated by ads of the incumbent Repub calling his challenger (another Repub) a wannabe liberal. It’s still an effective tactic in many places around here, so yeah, it takes more than being uber-progressive to make any headway. Ask Andrew Gillum about that. I don’t care about how close he got, it’s the same shit we’ve been dealing with since Lawton Chiles died.

  149. 149
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    If you check the labels, I think you will find that The Deep Fruit State already has a bunch of your supposed allies, under contract.

  150. 150
    wmd says:

    It’s funny that the people you’re chastising are needed to defeat Trump, and this kind of chastising has at least the 3 instances you identified where it did nothing to get those to vote for establishment assholes like Biden,

    Maybe do something different and don’t put the thumb on the scale for such a piece of shit candidate?

  151. 151
    Jay says:

    @wmd:

    If you click the reply button, it creates a link to the post you are replying to,

    Otherwise, it’s unclear as to which comment you are replying to.

  152. 152
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @Jay: Traitors!

  153. 153
    Jay says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Nope, contractors.

  154. 154
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @Sab: Supreme Court pick to replace RBG should answer that question for you.

  155. 155
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @Harbison: Ooh it’s Prickly Waste posting under a new nym! How the hell are ya? How’s the black women bashing going? Must really hurt to realize that Bernie will never be president.

  156. 156
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @wmd: Maybe the leftish blowhard has to EARN my vote instead of acting like he’s entitled to it in a sort of, let’s say, “coronation.” Turnabout is fair play, innit?

  157. 157
    NotMax says:

    @mrmoshpotato

    Peas are low in potassium.

    That’s what K rations are for.

  158. 158
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Procopius:

    It wasn’t “Repub ratfvckers” who appointed Bush — it was the Republican majority on the Supreme Court.

    You say potato… AFAIAC, Scalia & his thug-buddies were ratfvckers!

    P.S. Thanks to all who reminded me I’d gotten the date wrong. Except Adam, who is mean.

  159. 159
    Cacti says:

    It’s going to be so sweet watching Biden torpedo all the hopes of the Bernie cult.

  160. 160
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @FlipYrWhig: WELL PLAYED!

    I need Wilmer to sit down with me and address all of my concerns personally for me to even consider voting for him.

    Q1: Why were you such a pouty asshole at the 2016 DNC?
    Q2: Why did you stay in the race when you’d mathematically lost by the beginning of May?

  161. 161
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax: Bah dum tiss!

  162. 162
    Just One More Canuck says:

    @lgerard: weezle wuzzle?

  163. 163
    Matt says:

    ATTENTION “LEFTIST” PROTEST VOTERS: The field experiment has been run at three intervals over the past forty years, and it’s failed ever more catastrophically every time. Stop making the same mistake!

    ATTENTION FAKE-LEFTY DONOR SHILLS: the field experiment of “run a candidate that’s practically a Republican to try to pry loose suburban racists while punching hippies for having values” has been run at three intervals over the past forty years, and it’s failed more catastrophically every time. Stop making the same mistake!

    A party that claims that it constantly loses due to “protest candidates” might want to consider what its voters are protesting…

  164. 164
    Dennis says:

    Why persist in this vendetta against your imaginary “BernieBros”, when in fact a larger percentage of Bernie supporters voted for Clintion in the general than the percentage of Clinton supporters who voted for Obama in 2008?

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