Russiagate Horrorshow Open Thread: Salesman Trump Checks In with Home Office

Mueller is really getting to the Squatter-in-Chief; Trump can’t be arsed any longer to even pretend he isn’t taking orders directly from Putin. And — let it never be forgotten — the entire GOP is just fine with that!







94 replies
  1. 1
    NotMax says:

    Whatever the Russian is for “what a maroon” it was heard in the Kremlin within seconds of logging off.

  2. 2
    Brachiator says:

    By the way, according to the Kremlin, the phone call was Trump’s idea.

    DT phone home.

  3. 3
    Jeffro says:

    Time to choose, Republicans. Your country or your delusions. Your country or your party. Your country or

    Oh wait, never mind, you already chose…

  4. 4
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Mostly I try not to be too existentially scared, and am pretty good at it.

    But no more. This is honest-to-Zeus terrifying behavior. I’m torn between WTF and OMFG.

  5. 5
    Emerald says:

    Yeppers. They’ve finished with this annoying investigation. Time for the boss to set the next agenda.

    And I have a serious question: when our side starts winning the court cases and the WH says, basically, so what; when Orangymandius simply defies the courts, which is what he’s going to do, what do we do then? I recall that Andrew Jackson said, IIRC, when his Indian removal was declared unconstitutional, “The Chief Justice has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.” (or words to that effect).

    What’s our next step after that?

  6. 6
    lumpkin says:

    The president of the United states is totally subservient to the criminal dictator of a third rate hostile nation.

    I never, in my most cynical moments ever thought anything remotely like this was possible.

    I’m still shocked. I cannot come up with any reason to hope for the future of this country.

  7. 7
    tobie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: the stress of all this got to me this afternoon. I’ve had to dig out Tums to deal with it. It’s like seeing democracy swirl down the drain.

  8. 8
    Mike in NC says:

    @NotMax: In Russian, something close is “On Idyot”.

  9. 9
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @tobie:

    Yes, I hear you. There are times when I seriously wonder if I’ll ever manage to sleep through the night again.

    This is not the America my 5th-grade teacher told me about.

  10. 10
    Kay says:

    Trump’s bipartisan infrastructure plan already imperiled as Mulvaney, GOP lawmakers object to cost – The Washington Post

    Told ya. There was no risk to Pelosi for agreeing to meet on infrastructure. The GOP doesn’t give a shit about infrastructure and Trump is so busy planting stories in the NYTimes about Biden’s son he won’t put any work at all into it.

    I wonder if they’re working with Wikileaks yet. We’ll know pretty soon I guess.

  11. 11
    Mike in NC says:

    Don’t she’s electable in such a mysoginstic country, but I do like what Senator Warren says more and more.

  12. 12
    Baud says:

    Benedict Arnold
    John Wilkes Booth
    Donald Trump

  13. 13
    Emerald says:

    @Mike in NC: Sure she’s electable. Only two people in American history have won over 65 million votes. One was a Black man and the other was a woman.

    The problem we have is who’s going to tabulate the votes.

  14. 14
    Quinerly says:

    Kremlin reporting the call was actually 90 mins.
    And, of course, initiated by Trump.

  15. 15
    patrick II says:

    Today I saw the tape of Barr’s accusation of spying of the Trump campaign by investigators. Among other reasons why that assertion is ridiculous is that the FBI and Intelligence community briefed Donald on the Russian infiltration. As I remember, Trump knew it wasn’t true because of the briefer’s body language. Spys do not give reports to the spyee.

  16. 16
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Brachiator:

    DT phone home.

    Well done. Internet-winning worthy, in fact.

  17. 17
    Baud says:

    @Mike in NC:

    Vote for who you like. Forget the rest.

  18. 18
  19. 19
    Baud says:

    Maybe they were negotiating the terms of Trump’s asylum.

  20. 20
    Jeffro says:

    Weather’s turning nice these days…we’re probably past due for a rally or march, right?

    I wonder if we put a million folks around the WH chanting “traitor” and “Putin’s toy”, would that run for 30 seconds on cable news, or would they just cut away to the latest thing that Don Jr has tweeted?

  21. 21
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @NotMax:
    Probably something like this: что за бордовый

  22. 22
    debbie says:

    For me, the real tell was Trump’s statement that he believed Putin had good intentions for Venezuela.

  23. 23
    Ajabu says:

    @NotMax:
    I understand the origin of the term but, as a Jamaican, Maroon Has a substantially different meaning to us
    Look up maroon rebellion

  24. 24
    Kay says:

    Trump can’t ever admit “a hostile foreign power interfered in our democracy”

    He can’t. Because that second part of that is “to elect Donald Trump”

    Warren doesn’t lack courage and even she won’t go that far, although it’s true and everyone knows it. He will never, ever admit it. It’s devastating. Even without collusion or conspiracy or anything else, the fact is Putin worked to get Trump elected and there is and was a reason for that.

  25. 25
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @Emerald: Have the low-level people breaking the law carrying out his orders arrested. It won’t be Trump himself, he won’t lift a finger to help them and they will be arrested and jailed.

    That characteristic of his (lack of loyalty to anyone but himself) is actually a plus here. Without it, you have a more disciplined kleptocracy with no regard for the rule of law and you begin to understand why the general population in many third world dictatorships actually welcome coups: all the institutions have failed them. We’re not there in the US.

  26. 26
    James E Powell says:

    @Mike in NC:

    дурак! Or at least that’s what my ex-wife called me.

  27. 27
    Ohio Mom says:

    @lumpkin: What you said: The president of the United states is totally subservient to the criminal dictator of a third rate hostile nation.

    But not just any hostile nation, THE hostile nation.

    I remember when people like me rolled their eyes at the Cold War. It seemed hyped up, something right-wingers used for their own purposes.

    And now, it’s a very hot Cold War, people like me are gobsmacked and petrified, and right-wingers are using it for their own purposes.

    What gets me is the image of Trump calling Putin to chat, as if they were teenage BBFs (picture Patty Duke in character, phone in hand, pressed to her ear, out of hearing of the rest of the family) catching up, comparing notes on their days, complaining about their parents/Democrats, daydreaming about their futures, and promising to always be there for one another. Tne complete opposite of how heads of states are supposed to relate to one another.

  28. 28
    piratedan says:

    if we want this shit show to end, someone has to bring forth evidence that the Senate Majority Leader is guilty of a crime, otherwise this carousel of ignominy will continue, just mho

  29. 29
    Mike in NC says:

    @Kay: Putin wanted Trump in 2016 simply because he hated Secretary Clinton for standing up to him. But who knows whether he even cares about 2020?

  30. 30
    James E Powell says:

    @Mike in NC:

    I used the word that my ex-wife used to call me. It’s in moderation.

  31. 31
    Emerald says:

    @Felanius Kootea: Thanks. That’s reasonable.

    @Baud: Yeah, I’ve often visualized him in a nice $50 million penthouse in Moscow, eventually. I bet he’d even use Air Force One to get there.

  32. 32
    Jay says:

    @Felanius Kootea:

    Yup, seconded.

  33. 33
    oldgold says:

    The Russian take on today’s conversation between Trump and Putin.

    @JuliaDavisNews

    #Russia’s state TV talks about Trump’s conversation “with his colleague” Vladimir Putin, during which they discussed “trade, Venezuela, Ukraine, North Korea and even fictional interference in U.S. elections.”

    (Emphasis Supplied)

  34. 34
    Kay says:

    Kushner doesn’t believe there was Russian interference either. None of them do. They think Putin wrangling to get them elected reflects poorly on them so they simply choose not to believe it.

    All these reporters asking “did you tell him not to interfere again?” Trump’s thinking, well, no, because there was no interference. They tell us they don’t believe it happened over and over and for some reason we’re all insisting they REALLY believe it, somewhere down deep, in their heart of hearts.

  35. 35
    Raoul says:

    With my usual caveats about Tom, but yeah:

    This is such a victory lap by the Kremlin. Putin even reminds Trump that the new guy in Ukraine needs to play ball, and to keep our nose out of Venezuela. https://t.co/FRVcuOK32W— Tom Nichols (@RadioFreeTom) May 4, 2019

  36. 36
    sukabi says:

    @Quinerly: well sure drumpf initiated it and blabbered on for 90 minutes. He’s still trying to get his Moscow project off the ground.

    “So Vlad, we’ve wrapped up the Mueller witch hunt and they didn’t toss my ass in the can. I can’t thank you enough. About our other little project, how soon do you think we can move on it?”

  37. 37

    This thing is coming to some kind of a head. Things can’t keep on going the way they are now for too much longer. Sooner or later, something has to break. It’ll either be Donald Tяump and the Republicans or it’ll be our democracy. I pray it’s the former, because I don’t want to know what comes after this if democracy breaks.

  38. 38
    Kay says:

    @Mike in NC:

    Putin wanted Trump in 2016 simply because he hated Secretary Clinton for standing up to him.

    I don’t believe that. I think it’s been established that he hates Hillary Clinton, but I think there’s some larger benefit to Putin and his plutocrats personally – either short term or long term. Recall, they didn’t just want to beat Clinton. They wanted Donald J Trump. THAT person as President. They wanted Donald Trump as President and a GOP Congress. They didn’t intervene on behalf of any Democratic congressional candidates- just Republicans. That’s more than hatred of Hillary Clinton.

  39. 39
    Jay says:

    “HOME › ARTICLES › CULTURE › COMMANDER IN DISBELIEF
    CULTURETRUMPSEXUAL ASSAULT AWARENESS MONTHRAPE CULTUREPOLITICS
    COMMANDER IN DISBELIEF
    A TIMELINE OF SEXUAL ASSAULT ALLEGATIONS AGAINST TRUMP”

    https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/timeline-of-trump-sexual-assault-allegations?utm_source=web&utm_medium=TheMarySue&utm_campaign=swap

  40. 40
    Raoul says:

    @Mike in NC: If Putin’s goal is further destabilization of the US, rather than specifically wanting an idiot patsy in office, I could imagine Russian interference working differently in the run-up to Nov 2020.

    A Dem president, perhaps a modest widening of the Dem majority in the House, and Mitch continuing to preside over (if the Dems don’t friggin watch out!) a 53/47 split (presuming CO and ME swap with MI and AL). A recipe for bitter divisions, possible criminal charges for Trump, and unhinged rantings about stolen elections and maybe the need for the National Guard to evict Orangemadias.

    Top that off with a very stale, top-heavy economy that is IMO ripe for a recession. Oh and of course Kush’s mideast peace is a flop, Pompeo has managed to start a war in or near Iran, and who the frunk knows about Venezuela?

    Seems like a scenario Vlad would love.

  41. 41
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Raoul: I’ve read the Kremlin’s readout of the call, and yeah, Nichols is accurate. Putin even referred to the “internal Ukrainian conflict” as if it’s purely a domestic issue, and not the result of HIM FUCKING INVADING THE COUNTRY!

    I’ll bet the house that Trump didn’t correct him on that.

  42. 42
    Jay says:

    @Kay:

    They wanted US leadership tainted, alliances broken, the US Government flailing about, sanctions lifted and the US Economy on a knife edge. They wanted the US made an enemy to it’s long time allies.

    They got everything they wanted.

  43. 43
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Baud:

    Vote for who you like. Forget the rest.

    Why are you sabotaging your own campaign?

  44. 44
    Baud says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    I thought Mike liked me.

  45. 45
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Republican party
    1854-2016

    Traitorous Trump Trash Soviet Shitpiles
    2017-the end of time even after we burn the party to the ground, piss on the ashes and salt the ground

    P.S. Fuck the 77000 purity assholes who foisted this reality on 65 million of us.

  46. 46
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Kay:
    You’re suggesting that the modern GOP has a lot in common ideologically with Putin. I think you’re right. I think Putin wants the the sanctions that have been strangling him gone. I also think he wants the US and liberal democracy destroyed.

  47. 47
    Baud says:

    @Steve in the ATL:

    Holy cow. I was going through my feed and apparently Chris Hayes said the same thing tonight on his show.

  48. 48
    sukabi says:

    @Kay: what they say publicly is they don’t believe Russia interfered. Kushner, Don Jr. And drumpf himself solicited help from Russia.

    They KNOW they’re guilty, their play is to keep denying it so their base support doesn’t bolt.

  49. 49
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Jay:

    They wanted the US made an enemy to it’s long time allies.

    That begs the question: Are our allies trying to disrupt the GOP, since they’re a big part of the problem? They enable Trump and protect him. Destroy them and you destroy Trump

  50. 50
    Jay says:

    “An active-duty soldier in the U.S. Army is under investigation for his alleged leadership role in a neo-Nazi terror group, a military official has confirmed to HuffPost.

    Last month, independent journalist Nate Thayer published an article identifying 22-year-old Corwyn Storm Carver as a recent leader of the Atomwaffen Division, a violent, Charles Manson-worshipping, white supremacist group whose members and supporters were implicated in five murders in 2017. ”

    https://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/atomwaffen-division-army-soldier-investigation-corwyn-storm-carver_n_5ccb5350e4b0e4d7572fde38

  51. 51
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: Goku, you’re asking why our allies don’t attack us.

  52. 52
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: That “raises” the question. “Begs the question” refers to circular reasoning, or assuming the premise of the point you are arguing. Poorly translated from the Latin petitio principii.

    /pedant

  53. 53
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @mrmoshpotato:
    No, I’m asking why they don’t try to fuck with the Republican Party, who, along with Putin, are a threat to the long-term survival of humanity and liberal democracy

  54. 54
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    It’s your job to save the democracy you have, also to lose it, not ours.

    Every country get’s the government they deserve.

  55. 55
    Tokyokie says:

    @Ajabu: It’s a turn of phrase from old Bugs Bunny cartoons, as in, “What a maroon!” It’s Bugs’ way of saying, “Moron.”

    Tell ‘em, Bugs!

  56. 56
    JR says:

    @Baud: Vidkun Quisling

  57. 57
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Gin & Tonic: “begs the question” is used correctly as often as “literally” is and therefore should be resigned to the dustbin of history.

  58. 58
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    What you said. Thanks : )

  59. 59
    plato says:

    Fuck maggie, the magat from fynyt.

  60. 60
    plato says:

    Kudos to Kristin Welker for putting the totus thug in a spot.

  61. 61
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I will fight the good fight. You should see me when somebody says “the data is.” Makes my skin crawl, literally.

  62. 62
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷: You are asking why foreign powers don’t attack a US political party. Kind of defeats the whole self-governing and freedom thing of the US.

  63. 63
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Mike in NC:

    But who knows whether he even cares about 2020?

    Bookmark this: As the Dem primaries heat up, Putin will let it be known to our Media Village Idiots that he just might be boosting some other guy this time. Such as the junior Senator from Vermont, who has already benefited from IRA assistance! (Or even one or more of the most photogenic no-hopers, like Yang or Williamson — candidates whose supporters might be desperate enough to snatch at online promises.)

    Not saying that the Kremlin ratfvckers would actually stop supporting Trump… but Vlad will want to force Trump, not to mention McConnell & the other GOP traitors, to publicly beg for his continued benevolence. It further degrades Americans’ trust in their government, while providing cheap entertainment for the oligarchs in Moscow.

  64. 64
    prostratedragon says:

    @Ajabu: In some of the earlier Bugs Bunny cartoons it sounds to me like “What a maroom.”

  65. 65
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    P

  66. 66
    plato says:

    2020 Dems who voted “NO” on John Kelly’s confirmation at the Department of Homeland Security
    Sen. Elizabeth Warren
    Sen. Cory Booker
    Sen. Kamala Harris
    Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand

    pic.twitter.com/7tyeTD7YB5— 𝙋𝙖𝙩𝙧𝙞𝙘𝙠 𝙆𝙖𝙧𝙡𝙨𝙨𝙤𝙣 ⚡️ (@Patrickesque) May 4, 2019

    Guess the ‘dem’ who voted yes.

  67. 67
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Emerald:

    Yeah, I’ve often visualized him in a nice $50 million penthouse in Moscow, eventually. I bet he’d even use Air Force One to get there.

    Things get sticky enough for the Rethugs, I can see Mitch offering Donny Dollhands one last ride on his gilt-encrusted sky-chariot.

    On the other hand, I don’t see Putin offering asylum — once Trump is no longer in power, he’s no use any more. And unlike, for instance, Snowden, Trump is too dimwitted & incurious to give away any tradecraft if he’s interrogated.

    If he doesn’t stroke out (with or without ‘assistance’), my guess is that Trump ends up living on the charity of some other kleptocrat in a country that doesn’t have extradition treaties with the U.S. Hey, he wanted to build a Trump Tower in Baku…

  68. 68
    Kay says:

    @sukabi:

    They KNOW they’re guilty, their play is to keep denying it so their base support doesn’t bolt.

    I think they’re way more egotistical than that. They do not want to believe there was Russian interference because if they believe that they have to accept it was to get them elected, and that reflects poorly on them. Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump believe they are good people who rose solely on merit and hard work and innate superiority. Putin’s assistance sullies their self-image, therefore, cannot be true. Must. Not.

    It’s like if you got a job you really wanted and someone told you “well, but you’re aware that this companies competitor secretly took out the other applicant because they wanted you, because that’s better for them

    They can’t have that. It’s incompatible with how they see themselves.

  69. 69
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    It’s up to you to save yourselves. We are also busy trying to keep our democracies.

  70. 70
    🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷 says:

    @Jay:
    I know you’re ultimately right

  71. 71
  72. 72
    Jay says:

    @🇺🇸🌎 Goku (aka Amerikan Baka) 🗳🌷:

    Keep in mind, our IC’s and Law Enforcement are fully cooperating with lawfull requests for intormation and assistance.

  73. 73
    Kay says:

    @sukabi:

    Kushner’s had a lot of practice denying assistance. “I woulda got into Harvard anyway, the two million dollar donation played no role in that”

    They’ve been doing this their whole lives.

  74. 74
    Kay says:

    @plato:

    Yes, incredibly, the NYTimes will be relying on Rudolph Giuliani to relay all information on Joseph Biden. Similarly, they used “Clinton Cash” as a reference for their stellar Hillary Clinton coverage.

    I had trouble figuring out if the story was about Giuliani or Biden. I was leaning “Rudy” because he was quoted more than anyone else. It answered the question: “what DOES Rudy Giuliani believe about Joe Biden?” I admit I was not shocked to find out that Rudy is NOT a supporter.

  75. 75
    plato says:

    @Kay: The way she tries to sneakily normalize the totus thug’s treason by citing putin is horrible.

  76. 76
    plato says:

    South Korea says that North Korea has launched a short-range missile, but, interestingly, the president is tweeting a quote from George Papadopoulos on Fox News.— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) May 4, 2019

  77. 77
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Kay:

    It answered the question: “what DOES Rudy Giuliani believe about Joe Biden?”

    A question that no one cared to have answered

  78. 78
    Lulymay says:

    @lumpkin:

    Do you, per chance, have any extra coin for a wall between your country and Canada? Of course, that would be just to keep your guy and his bunch of syncophants on your side. The rest of you are quite welcome!

  79. 79
    Bill Arnold says:

    REPORTER: “Did you tell him not to meddle in the next election?”
    TRUMP: “We didn’t discuss that.”

    She asked the wrong question. Should have asked:
    Did you ask him to meddle in the next election?

    I have no strong confidence that he didn’t.

  80. 80
    plato says:

    I appreciate the favor, @jack, but I am perfectly capable of fighting The Prince of Lies without your help.

    Unshadow ban him, please. https://t.co/YAe7Aa3Tdn— God (@TheTweetOfGod) May 4, 2019

    No one at Twitter will tell Satan—or an account acting as him—why he has been "shadow banned." His story illustrates the increasing collateral damage from Twitter’s high-minded project to reinvent itself as a safer and healthier platform. https://t.co/z61ZQ8vjgr— Medium (@Medium) May 3, 2019

  81. 81
    Bill Arnold says:

    @plato:
    Is twitter still asserting that they don’t shadowban? There are a few accounts that I follow (well, have browser tabs for) that don’t deserve it IMO.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    Raoul says:

    @Gin & Tonic: On matters Russian, I fully expect Nichols to be correct, or at least making some of the most informed analysis.

    My usual caveats are that he’s arrogant (and he knows it), and if we get out Trumpistan relatively unscathed, he’ll be back to leading the charge for a robust but not idiot-centered conservative policies. As is his right.

  84. 84
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:
    I knew infrastructure was a no go when they revealed that no Republicans were at the meeting

  85. 85
    Llelldorin says:

    Trump’s offenses are so legion that I have trouble grasping them; I find myself becoming insanely furious at the least among them. I mean, there’s kowtowing to a thug like Putin, there’s the obstruction of justice, there’s the betrayal of longtime allies, and I’m sitting here screaming, “The mountain didn’t turn into a mouse, you moron, it labored and gave birth to a mouse! Read a book!

  86. 86
    Llelldorin says:

    I mean, Putin’s a vicious thug, but at least their vicious thug can get a classical allusion right.

  87. 87
    dimmsdale says:

    @Emerald:

    Well, yeah. Exactly. That’s the question I have too (in fact I just raised the point on another favorite lefty blog). At this point, the dimmest among us (I include myself as a charter member of that cohort, of course) should be able to see exactly where all this is going, but there are many stages to go through before the ultimate fascist (or oligarchic/fascistic or whatever) end state is accomplished. Who on our side, I wonder, has a relatively expansive view of it, and who is planning/gaming out a democratic (small D) response to each level of attack on our democracy, including the most extreme possibilities?

    I wonder.

  88. 88
    Barry says:

    @NotMax: “Whatever the Russian is for “what a maroon” it was heard in the Kremlin within seconds of logging off.”

    When I started my current job, I received their pay offer. The HR recruiter hoped that it was satisfactory.

    It was 20% more than I had hoped for.

    That feeling is but a speed bump compared to Putin’s feelings right now:

    1) He’s installed an almost openly-treasounous lackey in his enemies capital, and now has the 100% support of that party.

    2) The UK (you know, formerly great Britain) is going down the chute even faster.

    The only people happier must be the leadership of China.

  89. 89
    Barry says:

    @Emerald: “What’s our next step after that?”

    Well, if the courts are honest, bench warrants, which would include warrants for those obstructing the initial arrests (i.e., treat GOP officeholders as if they were subject to the law).

  90. 90
    Barry says:

    @Mike in NC: “But who knows whether he even cares about 2020?”

    He does, very much. Given a reelected Trump and a Senate in GOP hands, the House is in a very weak position, and the courts will only go more Federalist.

    By 2024, it might be impossible for the GOP to lose the Senate and most state governments, and they can continue to run the US into the ground.

    In addition, the FSB will have so much kompromat that they’ll need upgrade storage facilities.

    Throw in formerly great Britain, Poland, Hungary, Turkey, much of the Middle East, and the Western system will be no longer. In the end, Russia will have won the Cold War – they just had a 15-year setback.

  91. 91
    jc says:

    No collusion. You’re the colluder. No obstruction. You’re the obstructer. No traitor. You’re the traitor.

    How does a Dem. candidate win against Trump’s non-stop reality-warping psycho-drama?

  92. 92
    NobodySpecial says:

    @Ajabu: Yeah, there were a lot of really racially ugly Bugs Bunny cartoons that have since vanished into whatever became of Warner Bros.’ vaults. Maroon has a pretty stereotypical meaning, it’s just covered over by people who never saw stuff like “All This and Rabbit Stew”.

  93. 93
    Chris Johnson says:

    @jc: Bear in mind a lot of people who have been most deeply affected by this reality-warping are old. Old in a society that is obliterating their health care and selling their livelihoods out to globalism. Part of the reality-warping is about making sure they never turn to the only other functional political party on hand… the one which in recent memory has taken more interest in social spending and community-building in an economic sense, the one which has taken ownership of the concept that health care is a kind of right.

    In a very real sense, those people will DIE. They’ll go bankrupt on relatively innocuous medial issues, giving all their money to the health insurance lobby issue by issue as they’re bled dry, and when they’re bankrupt or denied care at the wrong time or just when their number comes up they will die, and stop being voting citizens (far as we know: that’s worth some attention too).

    It’s a lot like tulip mania or the dotcom bust: when the madness seems too great, (a) there’s probably an underlying reason for that and (b) it probably is.

    With tulips, it was underlying extraordinary wealth driving meaningless acquisition, then a bust. With the dotcom bust… it was underlying extraordinary wealth, driving meaningless ambition, and then a bust.

    Let’s call this one underlying extraordinary wealth driving meaningless TREASON and then a bust. This is a ‘madness’ like any other. Nobody can warp reality too far without a snap-back. If on the one hand we hang on to the social freedoms modern-day Dems cherish, and on the other hand we incorporate the Warren attention to economic detail (I’m not even gonna cite S-word, back in the day I would gladly have gone with Warren as she was Elizabeth Warren and persisting even then, she’d just refused to run), we will recover.

    Gerrmany is the lion of the Eurozone, after surviving similar madness (twice!) and disgrace, and repentance. Germans are damn serious about not becoming monstrous. We will do fine. We will need to shake off our monstrousness and not go there again, and we will not command the world, but we will do just fine.

  94. 94
    Chris Johnson says:

    @Barry:

    In the end, Russia will have won the Cold War – they just had a 15-year setback

    Yeah, at the cost of turning into the worst of the West. Russia is gone. All that remains of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is a collection of stateless oligarchs, and as much as they think ‘I am the state!’ that’s not really a thing. Imagine the chaos when Putin croaks of old age, one day.

    In a sense, the West won the Cold War and that’s not a great thing. Capitalism won the cold war and Capitalism is a damn cancer: it is small wonder that it was able to destroy the Soviets and leave them a banana republic. It’s doing the same here. NEITHER side won the Cold War. It’s zombies in the respective jerseys on both sides. Everybody lost to globalism and oligarchy, and now it’s a different (and stateless) game.

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