Biden Makes Me Sad

The whole Joe Biden announcement makes me sad. It’s just going to end so badly, he is never going to win*, and we’re just going to watch someone who is a shell of his former self ruin his entire legacy. It’s going to be like watching an aged Ali get totally trounced by Larry Holmes, although comparing Joe to Ali is in itself problematic, because Ali was a champion. Joe has run several times before and it has always ended badly.

When you look where he is on the issues, he’s just not where America or the Democratic party is right now. Middling centrism is most definitely not where the party is, and if you look at the totality of his record, including his war on drugs, his shepherding of the Bankruptcy Bill, the Anita Hill hearings, and so many other things, you can almost forget about the good he has done.

Again, it’s sad. Watching the video, he looks ok head on, if you can look past the hair plugs and the bulky crowns and the sucking sounds as he talks from his dentures. But his skin is thin, his cheeks are hollowed, and he looks old and tired, something that is obvious in non-staged photographs.

We all get old. I don’t know why so many of us can’t age more gracefully. He should be enjoying a well deserved retirement, spending time with his wife, his remaining kids, and his grandkids, doing the lecture circuit. But for some reason, and to his credit, he feels that he has to do this. But his good intentions and patrician feelings of obligation are not going to cut it.

The world has changed, and Joe Biden has not. He could have ridden off into the sunset, a hero for his past accomplishments and his popularity during the Obama years. But he is going to throw it all away, and it is going to be depressing to watch.

I just find it profoundly sad. It’s time for the kids to take over, Joe. You did your work. Let it go.

* And now he is guaranteed to win, what with me predicting his defeat.






251 replies
  1. 1
    oldster says:

    Yup. All agreed, from someone much closer to Joe’s age than to yours.

    I am going to celebrate Biden’s announcement by kicking a little more into Liz Warren’s campaign.

  2. 2
    Joey Maloney says:

    I gave Biden $5 based on the video. The campaign equivalent of a pity fuck.

  3. 3
    Shinobi says:

    Yeah…. With messaging like this he is not going to win.

  4. 4
    Cacti says:

    Take a deep breath people. The Iowa Caucuses aren’t for almost 10 more months.

  5. 5
    BobS says:

    He’s not close to being my first choice, but if Democratic primary voters elect him, I’ll be out singing his praises- he’s not in the same universe as the lunatic in the White House.

  6. 6
  7. 7
    The Dangerman says:

    The only positive of a Biden nomination is he’s the most likely to call Trump a fucking asshole on a hot mike; else, I got nothing.

    Are we getting a Nest Cam or did the blog go cheep … cheep … cheep?

    I need more Joe (neither Biden nor human).

  8. 8
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Shinobi: Either the link is broken or that’s worse messaging than I ever could have imagined.

  9. 9
    Cacti says:

    And remember, if/when Biden loses, you won’t have to worry about:

    1. His supporters decamping to Jill Stein or Gary Johnson to “teach the party a lesson”.

    2. Him giving only the most grudging and token support to the Dem nominee.

  10. 10

    @Kraux Pas: Link appears to be broken.

  11. 11
    Jeffery says:

    I do like the direct attack on trump and questioning trump’s patriotism which questions trump’s supporters as well. They aren’t America.

  12. 12
    khead says:

    It’s going to be like watching an aged Ali get totally trounced by Larry Holmes, although comparing Joe to Ali is in itself problematic, because Ali was a champion.

    Actually, I’m thinking it’s more like Holmes getting clocked by Tyson. Try not to throw up at the sight of Trump sitting next to Ali at the 10 minute mark of the video.

  13. 13
    Doug R says:

    Well, he was on the ballot that got the most votes in history along with Barrack Obama, so he was a co-Ali?

  14. 14
    Kraux Pas says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I know. I was trying to be a wise ass, sorry if that didn’t come across.

  15. 15
    Hungry Joe says:

    Joe will have the lead, or be close to it, for a while. But it means zilch. Didn’t Newt Gingrich lead in some early polls in ’16 or ’12 or ’08? (Newt has always been with us.) Also Rudy G.? Hell, I think Ali G was ahead in Iowa at some point.

    We have to concentrate on not tearing down any Democratic candidate, because he or she, no matter how far-fetched it sounds now, could actually get the nomination. (Stranger things have happened: I refer you to … well, you know.) Any wounds we inflict will fester. When it comes to the Dems, I have adopted as my motto the last line of the great baseball novel “Bang the Drum Slowly”:

    “From here on in I rag nobody.”

  16. 16
    Mike in NC says:

    The default position of the corporate media is to back old white men for office. They’re having to decide who they’d rather root for: Trump vs Sanders or Trump vs Biden. But mostly Trump. That’s all they have.

  17. 17
    marjorie feiner says:

    Totally agree. He could have been ambassador to the UN or something like that.

  18. 18

    @Kraux Pas: No worries. I am trying to do two other things besides commenting so my attention is not 100% on the most important task of Balloon Juice commenting.

  19. 19
    tobie says:

    I dunno. If the midterm elections tell me anything, it’s that America is ready to sign on to a liberal agenda but not necessarily an ‘Our Revolution’ style progressive one. Elissa Slotkin, Sharice David, Jahana Hayes, Abigail Spanberger, Lauren Underwood, Sean Casten etc. all won tough districts with a message of making government work for you, not upending and overhauling everything. This is not an endorsement of Biden. I don’t know how he will fare on the campaign trail, and I don’t think bipartisanship is a winning message. But I’m not convinced the country or the party faithful want wholesale change. My sense–which is not worth much–is that people are exhausted and want a return to normalcy.

  20. 20
    BobS says:

    @schrodingers_cat: I’d be out singing Sander’s praises as the Democratic candidate as well, and any assholes who couldn’t bring themselves to vote for him are the same as Stein voters from 2016.

  21. 21
    rikyrah says:

    If he can slug it out, and take the vetting and come out on top..more power to him. He is not my choice in this primary. But, I would vote for him in the general if he came out on top.

  22. 22
    Kraux Pas says:

    @tobie:

    I don’t know how he will fare on the campaign trail, and I don’t think bipartisanship is a winning message.

    Bipartisanship was precisely the message that drew me to Obama in 08. Then I saw how the Republicans reacted.

    Obama did amazing things, given what he had to work with. But I’m not falling for that same trap again.

  23. 23
    germy says:

    “Sleepy Joe” ??

    Where did PEETUS get that nickname?

    I guess he couldn’t go with “handsy Joe” or “too old Joe”

  24. 24
    germy says:

    @Cacti:

    The Iowa Caucuses aren’t for almost 10 more months.

    I bet the corn dogs are already prepared and waiting.

  25. 25
    Sis says:

    I agree with John, but I have to say, I found his announcement video stirring.

  26. 26
    Kraux Pas says:

    @germy:

    “Sleepy Joe” ??

    Where did PEETUS get that nickname?

    I guess he couldn’t go with “handsy Joe” or “too old Joe”

    I have two theories. This may be a way to insinuate he’s “too old” without alienating his core demographic. It may also be a reference to him dragging his feet getting into the race.

    ETA: Maybe a third, Trump’s tired from what little work he’s doing and/or distracted by investigations and his heart isn’t in this whole nickname business right now.

  27. 27
  28. 28
    BobS says:

    @schrodingers_cat: (this may be a duplicate comment- this website and my computer aren’t cooperating this morning) If Sander’s becomes the Democratic candidate, I’ll be out singing his praises as well- and frankly, any asshole who doesn’t is about as worthless as a Stein voter in 2016.

  29. 29
    Skepticat says:

    Sadly, I fully agree. He and I are of an age, and I can’t imagine people our age having enough strength or energy to campaign, much less to govern. Nor do I want to see him savaged as he surely will be. Sigh.

  30. 30
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    my dad has an interesting theory about what’s going on with the Democratic primary – there are encouraging everyone to run who wants to so the Hard Left Purity Ponies, MSM mean girls, Russian Trolls and the Conservative media doesn’t know who to slime like they did with Hillary (To be honest, Hillary was a meh candidate, but the real problem was it turned into a discussion of Hillary’s pantsuits and not who would make a better president) That basically by the time it’s finished it will be to late and to hard and to turn and focus on the Democratic candidate at the end of this at the level they did with Hillary.

  31. 31
    germy says:

    Joe Biden, a colossal asshole, wants to be the Democratic nominee for president in 2020 and in the most on-brand move ever, he’s launched his campaign with a fundraiser hosted by the chief lobbyist for Comcast, the most hated company in America

    https://boingboing.net/2019/04/25/seriously-fuck-that-guy-3.html

  32. 32
    Kylroy says:

    @Doug R: That’s the hing for me – he’s never been President, but he has plenty of other successes. It’s not like he’s going to be remembered as a failure, even after this candidacy likely fades out in the early primaries. Biden won’t gain anything by this, unlike the small army of folks running for President as a way to promote their book or audition for a cabinet position.

  33. 33
    West of the Rockies says:

    John, I think you give a kind, gracious, candid, and accurate assessment. Spot on.

  34. 34
    Leto says:

    How much of Biden’s decision to run was to keep his promise to his son, Beau? How much did advisors/donors use that as tool to get him to run? I hope that wasn’t the case because that would be fucking cruel. While he’s not my first choice, or even top 5, come the general I’d still gladly pull the handle for him. But we have a hell of a long way to go still.

  35. 35
    Kraux Pas says:

    I’m gonna put out a ranking of my candidate choices because I’m curious about other people’s as well and hope they will share.

    So enthusiastic that I would be volunteering for one right now if not for the other:
    Warren
    Harris

    Still quite enthusiastic:
    Klobuchar
    Booker

    Seen good things but want to watch how things develop:
    Inslee
    Castro

    Don’t know enough but generally positive * :
    Gillibrand
    O’Rourke
    Buttigieg

    Break glass in case of emergency ** :
    Sanders
    Biden

    Emergency:
    Gabbard

    *If anyone likes one of these folk, please link to something that makes the best case for them, I promise to read it
    ** If it comes down to only these two by the time I get to vote, I may take an R primary ballot for the first time since registering independent so I can vote for Weld over Trump.

  36. 36
    tobie says:

    @Kraux Pas: Exactly. Obama tried so damn hard to reach out to Republicans and in lieu of trying to work with him they tried to destroy him at every turn. That’s why an appeal to bipartisanship is a not a winning message for Democrats. Been there, done that. No more.

  37. 37

    Biden’s campaign team already caused a bit of a faux pas. their press release/fundraiser letter opened with “this nation was founded on the idea that all men are created equal.”

    yeah, take a second to spot where the tonedeaf part is. /headdesk

  38. 38

    @Kraux Pas:

    I’m with you. I’m a Warren/Harris guy through and through. Kinda more Harris than Warren only because I have a bias against Massachusetts at the moment and think it would be great to have a West Coast Democrat win the White House.

  39. 39
    Ruviana says:

    I think the death of his son really aged him a lot. It’d be better for him not to be in the race though like most everyone else if he’s the nominee I’ll vote for him.

  40. 40
    lamh36 says:

    Oh please John get the fuq over yourself

    All of you at BJ get over yourselves.

    Joe Biden is not my candidate…but it did piss me off with some of the more obvious “creepy Joe” hit jobs from Bernie faction.

    Kamala Harris is my candidate, but I’d be much happier voting for Joe Biden than Bernie in general and even working to make sure he wins.

    If Bernie gets it…Bernie may get my vote in a general but he WILL NOT get my volunteer time or even my donations. I’ll donate down ballot for Dem candidates.

    Listen my entire non-twitter SM are all excited by Joe Biden’s run, ya know those Black female voters who CONSISTENTLY vote and are more pragmatic that most other Dem voters.

    As I said Kamala is def my candidate but if Joe were to take the nomination I’d work my butt off to get him elected, including my money and my time.

    If Bernie eeks it out…FUQ him…but I’ll vote straight Dem but my money and time will go to downballot pols.

    Maybe take a chill pill and take Kamala Harris campaign response as a example of how to take the news.

    CLASSY

    https://twitter.com/thetomburkeshow/status/1121400879758790657?s=21

    Also too, of all the male candidates…Joe Biden is the only one I trust to go with a minority VP.

    My preference:

    1)Kamala Harris
    2)Stacy Abrams (yeah I know she’s likely not running but a girl can dream)
    3) Joe Biden
    4) Liz Warren

    …any of the others…except Bernie

    Dead Last) Holding my nose the entire time (Bernie)

    I’m fine letting primary play out and not playing the Bernie-Bro trash everyone but Bernie game

    Hell Biden as a much better candidate on paper than Mayor Pete other than his age so heck he has as much righty as any of the other folks to run.

    The primary will be the tell..

  41. 41
    rikyrah says:

    Uh uh uh😒😒

    #BREAKING. The FBI is at Mayor Catherine Pugh’s home performing a search warrant, sources confirm. >> https://t.co/W9DBEzxwGE

    — WBAL-TV 11 Baltimore (@wbaltv11) April 25, 2019

  42. 42
    donnah says:

    @germy:

    Ha ha, it reminds me of a comment responding to a news bit about Iowa and corndogs.

    “A fucking corndog is a ‘local delicacy’?” Jesus fucking Christ, Iowa.”

  43. 43
    Ocotillo says:

    When Hillary was SoS, her numbers were as high as she probably has ever had. When she announced, the Right Wing slime machine was cleaned up, primed and running like a lawn mower that had came out of winter hibernation. Joe’s number will drop but he doesn’t have the negatives that she had from a 25 year jihad.

    The positive from my perspective is he keeps Wilmer from running away with it at this stage.

    And look at us, the MSM has sucked us into the horse race narrative already.

  44. 44
    Kraux Pas says:

    @germy: Thanks for sharing the entire text of the article.

    @PaulWartenberg: One could argue that women are a part of mankind or more than half of all men are WOmen, but having to parse out something like that doesn’t seem like a winning message. If you’re explaining [yourself], you’re losing.

  45. 45
    Brachiator says:

    I just find it profoundly sad. It’s time for the kids to take over, Joe. You did your work. Let it go.

    I really enjoyed this post. It praises Biden where praise is due, and is cautionary without being wildly negative.

    I think that Biden is too old to run. He looks old and worn out. And despite the good things he has done, he has always lacked that certain spark or whatever that would gain him the nomination.

    In an odd way, I am glad to see that he is running in part because he has remnants of the glow of being Obama’s VP.

    But we are still months away from the primaries. And if Biden thinks he has the juice to run, whatever.

    He is not my first choice. But Biden, and every other Democrat in the race, and even Wilmer, is superior to Trump.

  46. 46
    Kraux Pas says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    I have a bias against Massachusetts at the moment

    Hey, I represent that comment.

  47. 47
    rikyrah says:

    BREAKING: Maryland Gov. Hogan: Baltimore Mayor Pugh “has lost the public trust. She is clearly not fit to lead. For the good of the city, Mayor Pugh must resign.” https://t.co/mfrfZavWpY

    — NBC Politics (@NBCPolitics) April 25, 2019

  48. 48
    Betty says:

    Thanks for saying so well just what I feel. It troubles me that his Senate pals are lining up behind him. Why can’t they see what we do? And I’m old so it’s not just the youngsters who understand that times have changed.

  49. 49
    rikyrah says:

    House Of Impeachment🔥🔥 (@battletested5) Tweeted:
    Beto just tried to Equivocate Barack Obama and trump on separation of immigrant families in a room full of African Americans

    Nah Chief..that was foul

    #SheThePeople2020 https://twitter.com/battletested5/status/1121144526909976579?s=17

  50. 50
    Leto says:

    @tobie: Exactly. The candidates who are already promising to have their cabinets filled in a bi-partisan manner? WTF are you people smoking? Where the F have you been for the last 10-18 years? You’re living in a fantasy land. We don’t have time for that.

    @Ruviana: Exactly. Having him out stumping for our candidate, sticking it to Orange Julius, that’s in his wheel house. I still think he’d make a great ambassador to some of our allies who have been hurt the most by this shit stain of an admin (thinking Germany, for example). But outside of that, his time has pass. Enjoy the sunset with your kids, grandkids, and super smart wife. Write some more Obama/Biden detective books. Write your massive autobiography.

    But we’re here atm. So…

  51. 51
    rikyrah says:

    ‘@SymoneDSanders has been heavily courted by 2020ers. She had a long meeting with Biden a few weeks ago and he followed up with a job offer. https://t.co/oyihMLNzMG

    — Julie Pace (@jpaceDC) April 25, 2019

  52. 52
    lamh36 says:

    Counterpoint…i have heard from folks who like the announcement video.

    Get off the blogs folks and talk to regular folks who who not dialed into internet politics like us and without the bias that goes along with that

    🙄

  53. 53
    trollhattan says:

    A politician’s ego won the day one time too many. You need an ego to be in politics and a thick hide (ironic given the tissue-thin carapace of our current president*) and here, Joe needed to stop listening to his inner politician and the ghost of his sadly departed son.

    Who will be our #21?

  54. 54
    Wayne Marks says:

    I think I said this on another thread: He won’t win but he’ll make the other candidates better for being in the fight… and he knows how to fight. He knows how to punch a bully. He will show them. They will learn. He’s a political drill sarge. Welcome him. He’s valuable.

  55. 55
    different-church-lady says:

    It has nothing to do with his age. It has everything to do with the fact that he already ran twice and didn’t come anywhere near winning.

  56. 56
    rikyrah says:

    I’ve reported before: all the non-online Black women that I work with have been waiting for Biden to jump in.

  57. 57
    rikyrah says:

    In m-o-d-e-r-a-t-i-o-n, please help.

  58. 58
    different-church-lady says:

    @trollhattan: When we get to 57, COUNT ME IN!!!

  59. 59
    VeniceRiley says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    Bipartisanship was precisely the message that drew me to Obama in 08. Then I saw how the Republicans reacted.
    Obama did amazing things, given what he had to work with. But I’m not falling for that same trap again.

    Yeah it’s a good general election message for certain candidates; but for the primary, it’s horrible. It’s the equivalent of saying “As President, the first thing I’m going to do is invite your abusers into the rooms of power.” It’s a tone deaf white guy nostalgia framing.

    Swalwell (also, too) with the half Republican cabinet bad idea … I cannot even! He tweeted a pledge to pick a woman veep. I just … no words.

  60. 60
    germy says:

    You would be wise to view any "movement" that attaches "or we should refuse to vote" to its manifesto as a ploy to try and get you to disenfranchise yourself. Be wary. #themoreyouknow— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) April 1, 2019

  61. 61
    StringOnAStick says:

    We keep saying that the D party just isn’t where Joe or any other of the centrists are right now, but do we really know that? Sure, those of us who comment here and the people who spent their time and money to go to the SheTheVote event in TX are, but are the politically least interested who aren’t paying attention yet there too? That concerns me a bit though a bump in the economy would solve all that I suspect.

    My neighbor the hard core BS supporter because she’s from VT has yet to tell me who she is leaning towards. Her main issue and what she works on locally is school’s and teachers so she should be a Harris supporter. If she comes out as supporting someone other than BS then I am completely sure that BS is toast.

  62. 62
    tobie says:

    @rikyrah: Maryland resident here–Pugh engaged in rank corruption, there’s evidence of overt quid pro quos between her and the U of MD medical center based in Baltimore. I despise Maryland’s governor and how he has starved Baltimore City and PG County during his tenure but Pugh does need to step down.

  63. 63
    Fair Economist says:

    @Kraux Pas: Lol on “break glass in case of emergency”. My version:

    So enthusiastic that I would be volunteering for one right now if not for the other:
    Warren
    Harris

    Still quite enthusiastic:
    O’Rourke
    Inslee
    Gillibrand

    Seen good things but have reservations:
    Buttigieg
    Castro
    Klobuchar
    Booker

    Break glass in case of emergency ** :
    Sanders
    Biden

    Emergency:
    Gabbard

    I’d vote for any of them over Trump, even the possible Russian puppets Sanders and Gabbard. Trump is particularly vile even for a puppet.

  64. 64
    Kraux Pas says:

    @different-church-lady: I’ve considered running for president on a platform of “please don’t vote for me in the primary. We have many wonderful candidates with good ideas. But if you insist on having a president with no political experience, I promise I’ll be a damn sight better than Trump. At least I read…and care.”

    ETA: Maybe I can parlay a run into a youtube following at least. The book thing is overdone.

  65. 65
    justawriter says:

    Biden was the reason I had a hard time generating any enthusiasm for Obama until late October, 2008. Anyone who went through Newt’s contract on America and still believed in reaching across the aisle should have realized in 2004 when Grover Norquist said “bipartisanship is another word for date rape” that conservatives are never going to act in good faith until they are forced to. Plus all the Biden policy gaffes previously referred to.

  66. 66
    khead says:

    @rikyrah:

    I think Hogan really thinks he can be POTUS. Lol.

  67. 67
    BobS says:

    @Kraux Pas: Warren, Castro, Harris, Sanders.

  68. 68
    rikyrah says:

    ReclaimingMyTime (@MonieTalks_1) Tweeted:
    Quite frankly I’m not impressed with ANY candidate who espouses “those Trump voters were just fooled, forgotten, misled.”

    They heard the same trifling shit I did from a well known multi-bankrupt scammer. Whether a candidate is centrist or progressive, those excuses turn me off. https://twitter.com/MonieTalks_1/status/1121428289632055296?s=17

  69. 69
    khead says:

    @lamh36:

    I was totally with you right up to the point where you put Biden over Warren.

  70. 70
    Leto says:

    @lamh36: Countercounterpoint: I am still home bound and basically don’t see too many people “irl”, so you guys are it? :p

    I agree with your post at #39. KH’s response was indeed classy. Let’s see what ideas he brings, let’s have discussion about them.

  71. 71
    different-church-lady says:

    @Fair Economist:

    Emergency Scorched Earth:
    Gabbard

  72. 72
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Fair Economist: Nice. Curious, what are your reservations about Castro? Also, what excites you about O’Rourke and Gillibrand?

  73. 73
    Leto says:

    @germy: Joy gave serious clap back to Sen WaggleFinger yesterday. It was really good to see. She wasn’t there to play around with that bs.

  74. 74
    tobie says:

    @khead: Well, I’m an enthusiastic supporter of Beto, and I don’t consider myself a fool. Joy Reid said he knocked it out of the park yesterday, and I trust her on this. AOL started the smear last night that he disrespected Obama, though I’ve seen no evidence of that in the clips I’ve seen.

  75. 75
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @lamh36: Pulling this from an earlier thread:

    The first debates will winnow out a good chunk of the non-viable candidates (and may raise the profile of some who are being dismissed as also-rans at this time). The first few primaries will do the rest. I doubt that more than three will be in the race with any kind of chance after Super Tuesday.

    I am fine with any actual Democrat taking a run at this point. Even the ones that don’t go anywhere could contribute a policy idea that catches on.

  76. 76
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Wayne Marks:
    Given that Biden is 0 for 2 as a presidential candidate, it’s hard to to imagine him showing the rest of the field how candidating is done.

  77. 77
    rikyrah says:

    😒😒😒🙄🙄

    chris evans (@notcapnamerica) Tweeted:
    I’m beyond frustrated that the media keeps giving the male candidates credit for saying or proposing something that one of the women already have, and nobody cared.

    Are the female candidates speaking at a frequency the media can’t hear? https://twitter.com/notcapnamerica/status/1121427218088058880?s=17

  78. 78
    West of the Rockies says:

    I will say, Biden over Bernie a hundred times.

  79. 79
    Kraux Pas says:

    @rikyrah:

    Are the female candidates speaking at a frequency the media can’t hear?

    Political scientists should look into this serious issue. I propose we form a categorization of this phenomenon known as the shrillness index.

  80. 80
    germy says:

    @Leto:

    Joy gave serious clap back to Sen WaggleFinger yesterday. It was really good to see. She wasn’t there to play around with that bs.

    And he even waggled his finger when the audience was less than enthusiastic with some of his comments.

    Still, if he gets the nomination, I’ll vote for him. I just hope he doesn’t pick Tulsi as his running mate…

  81. 81
  82. 82

    @Kraux Pas:

    freaking sports fans. SHADDUP BOSOX. GO RAYS

  83. 83
    Fair Economist says:

    @Kraux Pas: Castro has a thin resume.

    O’Rourke beat the usual party split by 3% vs. an incumbent. He’s also quick on his feet with controversial issues like BLM.

    Gillibrand is solid on issues and has been good at adapting to different constituencies. (She won both in a Blue Dog congressional district and in NY as a whole).

  84. 84
    kindness says:

    Bidden ruin his reputation? Naaa. That’s more dramatic than what will happen. Bidden will lose and quietly slink away. Probably get an Ambasadorship when one of the Democrats wins the prize from Trump. No what I find hard to take is the Egos On Parade within the Democratic ranks. That this many egos think they are the towering people who should grab the gold ring is baffling.

  85. 85
    VeniceRiley says:

    So enthusiastic that I would be volunteering for one right now if not for the other:
    Harris
    Warren
    Still quite enthusiastic:
    Gillibrand
    Klobuchar
    Castro
    Seen good things but have reservations:
    O’Rourke
    Buttigieg
    Booker
    Break glass in case of emergency ** :
    Biden
    Emergency:
    Gabbard
    Apocalypse:
    Sanders

  86. 86
    Wayne Marks says:

    There’s A LOT of baseball left. We’re barely through the first inning.

  87. 87
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good point. Even that phony, smarmy prick John Edwards got the other candidates to focus on poverty more seriously in 2008.

  88. 88
    gvg says:

    @lamh36: That is true. My mid 70’s always liberal democrat parents tend to like him. Of course they also liked Sanders…..but they are afraid of losing, and think Joe can win just a bit more of the middle. I think they are delusional but I can see the calculation. We are all afraid of more Trumpism. Older than I am and remembering a long string of losing elections to the likes of Nixon, Reagan, Bush and Trump. In the 08 elections some pointed out that Hillary seemed to be in a permanent defensive crouch, expecting to be attacked, unlike Obama, and that she had missed the shift in younger voters attitudes. I thought that was valid and I saw the history of her and her generation (my parents). then I got unpleasantly surprised by the tea party then Trump. So I can see how some democrats are worrying about that white swing voter and talking up bipartisan cabinets. The problem is it hasn’t been working for awhile. There was a time when triangulation, compromise and bipartisan talk helped democrats win sometimes. However for about the last 15 years, it hasn’t, so we have to find a different way. Fact is, the extremists have driven out any republicans who were willing to work with us. They also don’t have many competent people left so I can’t see how to do a bipartisan cabinet. I have had enough of doofuses, and I will tell other democrats that. Bipartisanship is dead because the GOP voters killed off their own middle.

  89. 89
    Fair Economist says:

    @different-church-lady: Gabbard *is* horrible. But she’d still be a lot better than Trump.

  90. 90
    Brachiator says:

    @rikyrah:

    Are the female candidates speaking at a frequency the media can’t hear?

    Ha! This might be part of the problem.

    This stupidity is magnified by the absence of a more diverse crowd of journalists, and women journalists who possibly believe that they have to “prove” that they are being fair to male candidates by being harder on women candidates.

  91. 91
    mad citizen says:

    The only yard signs I’ve ever put in front of our house were Obama. The only car sticker I’ve done, so far, is my Kamala Harris sticker. I too like the idea of a Cali Dem in the WH.

    The others, any of them or a goat gets my vote over our national embarrassment. Was thinking this morning, his main MO is watching teevee and typing short decrees on a phone. That’s how he runs the Executive Branch of our nation.

  92. 92
    Leto says:

    @germy: Yup, the audience wasn’t having the “I was there…” bs.

    @lamh36: I’m ashamed to say I forgot about Stacey Abrams. She’s an awesome woman. If she doesn’t make a run for the GA senate seat, a Harris/Abrams or Warren/Abrams ticket would be awesome. If not a VP pick, having her in a cabinet position would be great too.

  93. 93
    Fair Economist says:

    @gvg:

    They also don’t have many competent people left so I can’t see how to do a bipartisan cabinet.

    This. I can’t think of any Republicans in Congress who’d I want to have anywhere near the Cabinet. The only governor I wouldn’t be horrified by is Baker (Gov-MA). There just aren’t any good Republicans left, and anybody calling for a bipartisan Cabinet is mentally stuck back in the last millennium.

  94. 94
    PsiFighter37 says:

    Harris, Warren, and Joe would be my top 3 if you forced me to make a choice. Maybe that makes me weird, but I don’t really think many of the other candidates in this big field either have a prayer or are running for the right reasons. I want to like Beto but I think he’s way too light on policy (even if I think he has the stamina and tenacity to run Donnie into the ground).

    Will wait to see how the debates play out. But I think people here on BJ, and social media more broadly, underestimate Biden’s appeal among regular folks at their own peril.

  95. 95
    BobS says:

    @Leto: “Sen WaggleFinger”- ha, ha. Damn, you’re the funny one. That’s nearly as clever as “Cankles”, or “Pocahantas”. You might have a future on Twitter.

  96. 96
    Ajabu says:

    @lamh36: @lamh36:
    I hear you. My wife ( that black woman voting block) is Excited about Biden in the race. I am Kamala Harris all the way. My wife will come around when Kamala Gets white folks voting for her in the primaries like Barack in 2008.

  97. 97
    Vidya Pradhan says:

    I dunno, Warren’s my gal, but I have friends who long for the Obama Era of Decent Human Beings and are excited about Biden. The low info voter doesn’t know or care about his gaffes and policy positions…all they care about is his image of a plain-speaking guy who can stand up to Trump’s nonsense with pithy retorts.

    I’m not voting for him in the primaries but if he actually makes it through, I’ll not only vote, I’ll phone bank, donate, and knock on doors too. Bernie and Tulsi are the only ones I’ll hold my nose and vote for but not do anything else.

  98. 98
    Leto says:

    @gvg: This, all of this. You’ve explained a lot of what I was thinking/feeling. Thanks.

  99. 99
    tobie says:

    We’re going to need a North Korea thread from Cheryl soon. Putin seems to have given Kim Jong Un his blessing for nukes, and it’s just appeared in the Post that Trump personally approved the US paying a bill of $2 million that the North Koreans presented to the US in 2017 for ‘caring’ for Otto Warmbier:

    But the main U.S. envoy sent to retrieve Warmbier signed an agreement to pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from President Trump, according to two people familiar with the situation. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

  100. 100
    germy says:

    @BobS:

    That’s nearly as clever as “Cankles”, or “Pocahantas”.

    “Cankles” is based on a physical attribute. False, but it’s basically calling her fat. “Pocahantas” is based on the lie that she falsely claimed Native American ancestry to further her career. Her DNA test showed some Native American ancestry, and her claim didn’t benefit her career.

    “Wagglefinger” is based on something he chooses to do, again and again.

  101. 101
    StringOnAStick says:

    @gvg:

    There was a time when triangulation, compromise and bipartisan talk helped democrats win sometimes. However for about the last 15 years, it hasn’t, so we have to find a different pecway. Fact is, the extremists have driven out any republicans who were willing to work with us.

    Excellent point. I hear my boss the fairly liberal (for a dentist) say that most people just want someone in the center and the problem is that the primary process ensures that the radicals of each party end up being the nominee. We all know that’s bullshit on our side, but given who won the R primary in 2016, it gets harder to argue against his point. What is different from 2016 and now is he has a quadriplegic son who will depend on Medicaid and the social safety net for the rest of his life, and that will color his thinking I suspect. He does say stuff like “Social Security is from a time when people didn’t live so long so the age of retirement needs to go up”, which I always counter with “some jobs are too hard to do even up to age 65, much less older”. I’m the worst kind of employee: I don’t need the job!

  102. 102
    Chyron HR says:

    @BobS:

    Well, not everybody can come up with timeless wit like “LOVE BERNIE OR DIE, MOTHERFUCKERS!”

  103. 103

    @rikyrah:

    Are the female candidates speaking at a frequency the media can’t hear?

    From what I’ve heard, this is a major part of the experience for women in America.

    @gvg:

    think Joe can win just a bit more of the middle.

    My early 60s mother is big on this. My impression is she’s still thinking in terms of a 90s electorate. The politics of America have changed drastically since then, become vastly more polarized. Appealing to the easily spooked middle is less valuable than motivating a growing base of angry liberals. We didn’t win in 2018 by appealing to the middle, we won because our side have never been more pissed or taken their votes more seriously.

  104. 104
    Ruviana says:

    @Betty Cracker: Real question–did Edwards seem to you a smarmy prick at the time? I was originally for him based on his poverty platform before I switched to Obama.

  105. 105
  106. 106
    Harbison says:

    Jimmy Carter is still constitutionally eligible to serve another term as president.

    And he’s still out there turkey hunting: https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/state/georgia/article229630634.html

    The Grin Can Win

  107. 107
    Kraux Pas says:

    @PaulWartenberg:

    freaking sports fans. SHADDUP BOSOX. GO RAYS

    Oh, I don’t give a fuck about sports. Carry on.

  108. 108
    Steeplejack says:

    I’m not usually one to break in with, uh, breaking news, but holy shnikeys!

    “North Korea issued $2 million bill for comatose Otto Warmbier’s care.”

    BEIJING — North Korea issued a $2 million bill for the hospital care of comatose American Otto Warmbier, insisting that a U.S. official sign a pledge to pay it before being allowed to fly the University of Virginia student from Pyongyang in 2017.

    The presentation of the invoice—not previously disclosed by U.S. or North Korean officials—was extraordinarily brazen even for a regime known for its aggressive tactics.

    But the main U.S. envoy sent to retrieve Warmbier signed an agreement to pay the medical bill on instructions passed down from President Trump, according to two people familiar with the situation. They spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

    The bill went to the Treasury Department, where it remained—unpaid—throughout 2017, the people said. However, it is unclear whether the Trump administration later paid the bill, or whether it came up during preparations for Trump’s two summits with Kim Jong Un.

    The White House declined to comment. “We do not comment on hostage negotiations, which is why they have been so successful during this administration,” White House press secretary Sarah Sanders wrote in an email.

    @tobie: Curses, late again!

  109. 109
    Amir Khalid says:

    @rikyrah:
    The women candidates, particularly Warren and Harris, have looked the most impressive in term of policy chops and personal charisma. From a GOP point of view, they are the highest-priority targets for ignoring where possible and knocking down where necessary.

  110. 110
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Harbison:
    A man in his nineties who has shown absolutely no interest in seeking the presidency again? That’s a wee bit of a stretch.

  111. 111
    Leto says:

    @tobie: I’m sure NK was treated like so many other contractors Trumpov has done business with. Distressing about the Putin-Kim talks. As you said, hope Cheryl and/or Adam are writing things up.

  112. 112
    germy says:

    @StringOnAStick:

    most people just want someone in the center and the problem is that the primary process ensures that the radicals of each party end up being the nominee.

    Which is why we nominated that dangerous socialist radical Hillary Clinton instead of the more middle-of-the-road Vermont backbencher?

  113. 113
    ruemara says:

    Sometimes, I wonder what’s wrong with me why I can’t get so connected to these random people running for office. I like them like I like a fruit, nice but I’m not swearing fealty to just one. I just want good policy and strong embrace of the complete spectrum of the issues of the Democratic Party base. I don’t want Biden, I do see why he’s seen as a strong candidate, but I don’t see it. Nostalgia means nothing to me. I don’t believe in mushy middles or wooing conservatives. If you need to be wooed to fight evil, you’re fucking evil. We can do without you and your broken moral compass.

    @germy: I can’t say I’ve ever thought of Sanders as a radical. Maybe radically lackluster for someone with so much hype.

  114. 114
    cmorenc says:

    Joe Biden may become the Harold Stassen of the Democratic Party. Harold Stassen wasn’t ever VP, but he had a distinguished background as Governor of Minn – and became a hardy perennial unsuccessful candidate for the GOP nomination in 1964, 1968, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, and 1992.

  115. 115
    tobie says:

    @Steeplejack: @Leto: The whole story is beyond shocking. We paid ransom to a torturer for a tortured body so Trump could have his photo-shoot at his first State of the Union address. The explicit policy of the US has always been, “No ransom to terrorists.” I’m not so naive as to believe we’ve never broken that pledge but when we have it was to get something in return. Kim proved here that he could pwn and own the US. It’s so damaging to the country’s long-term interests.

  116. 116
    NotMax says:

    Mae West, Sextette.

    ’nuff said.

  117. 117
    Geoduck says:

    @germy: Yeah, starting right out of the gate with a Comcast fundraiser was really tone-deaf. Not a good sign for Biden.

  118. 118
    ruemara says:

    @Ajabu: Yeah, I think that’s what especially 40+ black folks want to see. We don’t want to connect with a black candidate then watch as white folks refuse to support them. It’s not my exact position, but I understand. I’ve read a lot of analysis about how Dems are afraid of white voters or something to that effect. Well, the democratic base is black folks and I think history shows we have good reason to try to triangulate in our votes with a heavy consideration for what will get white voters to vote for someone on our side.

  119. 119
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Fair Economist: Wasn’t Castro a cabinet official and the mayor of a major city? I mean we do have a recent history of nominating cabinet officials, plus it’s not like there’s a lot of upward mobility for Texas Democrats.

    I do like the enthusiasm that O’Rourke generates, but I don’t know what he plans to do or what he would prioritize as president.

    I do like Gillibrand. She showed some real stones taking on sexual harassment in the military and I’ve never seen what I would consider a bad vote out of her. Still, I’d like to see more on what she’d do for policy overall. The media blackout certainly hasn’t helped her.

  120. 120
    trollhattan says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    I will say, Biden over Bernie a hundred times.

    Yup.

    One of at least fifteen, but anyway….

  121. 121
    rikyrah says:

    @VeniceRiley:

    Break glass in case of emergency ** :

    BWA HA HA HA HA HAH A HA

  122. 122
    Brachiator says:

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    The politics of America have changed drastically since then, become vastly more polarized. Appealing to the easily spooked middle is less valuable than motivating a growing base of angry liberals.

    Really? I wonder.

    We didn’t win in 2018 by appealing to the middle, we won because our side have never been more pissed or taken their votes more seriously.

    We won because people were angry with Trump’s incompetence and gutting of past policies. And even though some avowedly more lefty candidates ran and won, I don’t think that we saw any massive shift towards super-lefty positions.

  123. 123
    trollhattan says:

    @Kraux Pas:
    Gillibrand announced and kind of vanished. I like her style and I think I like her substance, but I don’t know enough yet. I do know she can smile while delivering the shank which, in this bidnez is of value.

  124. 124
    AndoChronic says:

    @BobS: That’s his campaign strategy in a nutshell.

  125. 125
    trollhattan says:

    @VeniceRiley:
    Will that fit on a t-shirt? :-)

    One final line:
    Cyanide:
    Trump

  126. 126
    Kraux Pas says:

    @StringOnAStick:

    I hear my boss the fairly liberal (for a dentist) say that most people just want someone in the center and the problem is that the primary process ensures that the radicals of each party end up being the nominee.

    So demonizing minorities, women, and immigrants is equally as radical as pushing for good public policy that will help ALL Americans with a sustainable, equitable economy.

    Ooh, here’s how we split the difference. What if we had good public policy that ignored minorities, women, and immigrants?

  127. 127
    khead says:

    @tobie:

    Did you see the Hogan footage from New Hampshire? He’s definitely drinking his own kool aid.

  128. 128
    patrick II says:

    By the time we go to the ballot box for the presidency Joe will be 78 years old, Warren will be 71, seven years difference. But it is not just age, Warren still has a lively and responsive mind. At her town halls she can not only state her pretty complex policy positions and add why they work, but also respond quickly, accurately and with depth to questions — and that’s the really hard part.
    I have seen Joe in conversations recently, he pauses as he searches for the word he just can’t find. I am 71, and I do this too, I recognize that. It is not just how old you are, but how some minds stay unusually active, like Warren, and some are more normal and begin to show their age. Joe seems more normal to me. And that means too old. So Warren, who is seven years younger and just generally has a more active, actually still brilliant mind, is getting my vote.
    Someone should have talked Joe out of running. It was especially tragic he could not run the last time because of the death of his son, and it’s probable he feels he would be president now and has deep regrets and an obligation to fix what he feels he lost for all of us when he sees Trump destroy the country, and he can’t help but try to fix it. That was terrible luck Joe, but the time is gone Joe, as it goes for all of us.

  129. 129
    patroclus says:

    I don’t think Biden is going to ruin his legacy by running a losing Presidential campaign. He was in the Senate for 32 years and was V-P for 8 years and that will define him in history – Obama was right when he offered the Veep job to him that it would be the capstone of his career. Did Alben Barkley ruin his legacy by running for the 1952 nomination? I’m not committed to Biden at all but I am interested in what his policy positions will be. If he can articulate a reason why he would be a good President then he deserves a chance to do so. I’m not sure why pundits should leap to a legacy-like conclusion on the day of an announcement – that seems a bit premature.

    I’ll also say that neither Wilmer nor his Bros seem to be behaving nearly as badly as they did last time. I’m willing to give him a look as well although his views on trade and guns and the Magnitsky Act seem very offputting at present.

  130. 130
    NotMax says:

    That sound you hear is champagne corks popping at Visa, MasterCard and CITI headquarters.,

  131. 131
    rikyrah says:

    George Lucas and Mellody Hobson seek to foreclose on Ebony photo archives after Johnson bankruptcy filing
    By Robert Channick
    Chicago Tribune

    Power couple George Lucas and Mellody Hobson are trying to take possession of Ebony magazine’s historic photo archives, which were used as collateral for a $12 million loan they made to now-bankrupt Johnson Publishing four years ago.

    Capital Holdings V, a company controlled by the filmmaker and his financier wife, filed a motion Wednesday in Chicago federal Bankruptcy Court seeking to foreclose on the archives, citing the risk to their loan repayment and the iconic photo collection itself.

    On Thursday, Lucas and Hobson issued a statement through their company expressing the need to preserve the Ebony archives.

    “The Johnson Publishing archives are an essential part of American history and have been critical in telling the extraordinary stories of African American culture for decades,” the company said. “We want to be sure the archives are protected for generations to come.”

    The Ebony photo collection, which has been appraised at $40 million, may be the most valuable asset left in the once influential Chicago-based publishing empire, which sold its magazine holdings three years ago and filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection earlier this month.

    Johnson Publishing has been trying unsuccessfully to sell its photo archives for more than four years.

  132. 132
    Fair Economist says:

    @Kraux Pas: No disagreements on any of those facts. Castro’s resume isn’t bad, it’s just a little weak for President, and I haven’t seen a strong compensating advantage like O’Rourke charisma.

    O’Rourke would prioritize immigration, which I think is a good target. He hasn’t said so explicitly, but he led that march on one of Trump’s concentration camps, counter-rallied against Trump, and talks about it a lot on the stump. His voting record is kind of blah but he’s better than the median Senator will be in 2021 and he might improve the median Senator.

    Like you say, Gillibrand has never made a major policy mis-step. That’s great, and makes her trustworthy. She did put out a push to address the opioid epidemic which was pretty good, but got smeared by the troll farms.

  133. 133
    Jeffro says:

    @VeniceRiley:

    So enthusiastic that I would be volunteering for one right now if not for the other:
    Harris
    Warren
    Still quite enthusiastic:
    Gillibrand
    Klobuchar
    Castro
    Seen good things but have reservations:
    O’Rourke
    Buttigieg
    Booker
    Break glass in case of emergency ** :
    Biden
    Emergency:
    Gabbard
    Apocalypse:
    Sanders

    You stole my list! ;)
    LOLOL

    Hey y’all, you know who’s having a bad week right about now, speaking of ‘Apocalypse’? Yup. Wilmer’s week is going from bad to worse.

    Things aren’t going so well these days for Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.). First, he opened himself up to charges of hypocrisy when the candidate who has excoriated millionaires turned out to be one, as his tax returns revealed. Then on Monday, he made the unforced, glaring error of supporting voting rights for dangerous, incarcerated felons. Most worrisome for a candidate who never established a strong rapport with nonwhite voters in the 2016 race, he got a chilly reception at a women’s forum in Houston on Wednesday.

    The Post reports:

    The groans erupted halfway through Bernie Sanders’s appearance Wednesday at a presidential candidates’ forum sponsored by She the People, a group that aims to drive up voter participation among women of color.

    Before an audience of about 1,700, many of them African American and Hispanic women, the moderator asked Sanders (I-Vt.) how he would handle the rise in white supremacy. Sanders spoke of fighting discrimination and running a campaign “to bring our people together around an agenda that speaks to all people” — then returned to a familiar message on universal health care.

    For many in the audience, that was insufficient. “Come on!” a woman shouted from the back, as others began to jeer and boo.

    The reception reflected Sanders’s struggle to win support from minority voters, a problem that dogged his 2016 primary campaign against Hillary Clinton.

    Several things are surprising about this episode.

    First, did he not prepare for a patently obvious question?…

    Second, Sanders’s tone-deafness really makes Monday’s proposal to let felons still behind bars vote seem like crass pandering. Rather than make an extreme proposal, which if anything undercuts legitimate proposals to re-enfranchise felons who have served their time, on an issue virtually no one is clamoring to hear, he might consider a bold move similar to a plan put forward at the same summit by Sen. Kamala D. Harris (D-Calif.). That plan would wield the pardon power widely for the benefit of those (disproportionately African American) convicted of nonviolent drug crimes and give former nonviolent drug offenders job opportunities in the new, legalized pot industry….

    Finally, Sanders is getting shown up regularly on race issues not only by African American candidates but also by Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), who has included in virtually all her policy proposals specific measures to address racial inequality…

    With former vice president Joe Biden’s entry into the race, Sanders’s race problem will only get worse. Biden has extraordinarily warm relations with the African American community (one important bonus from being President Barack Obama’s right-hand man).

    Sanders seems to have written off moderate voters who have qualms about his self-described socialist agenda. If he also has problems with nonwhite voters, it’s hard to see how he puts together a coalition big enough to win….

  134. 134

    @BobS: I will cross the Bern Bridge when it comes to it. He is bad news through and through. And whatever names you might call me is not going to change that assessment on my part.

  135. 135
    Matt McIrvin says:

    @StringOnAStick: Most people *don’t* want someone in the center; if there’s an underserved position in US politics, it’s racist/theocratic left populism, which lacks representation because there’s no money in it. The hunger for a centrist is a position of people with money, and they imagine they’re the masses, because America.

  136. 136
    tobie says:

    @khead: I’ve avoided watching but I guess I should take a look. No doubt he’s full of himself. I’m still pissed that he’s Governor of Maryland.

  137. 137
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    What if we had good public policy that ignored minorities, women, and immigrants?

    That would be Sanders.

  138. 138
    trollhattan says:

    @patrick II:
    If anybody is better equipped than Warren to tackle a question on any topic and give an in-depth, complete answer while not sounding like they’re quoting something from file drawer 12-C, I’ve not encountered them yet. Several candidates are glib and quick on their feet (and even talk Norwegian!) but I’m not getting her level of substance.

    Naturally, that means at least a third of the country will hate her.

  139. 139
    trollhattan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    [rimshot!]

  140. 140
    Hildebrand says:

    Biden got crushed the other two times he ran. No amount of Obama nostalgia is going to make him a better candidate this time around. He should sit back and play elder statesman, or attack dog, or whatever role gives him the opportunity to get people ready for the next generation of Democratic leadership. I like Joe, but I never entertained voting for him in his previous runs, that isn’t going to change this time around

    My top three: Harris, Warren, Castro
    Second tier: Klobuchar, Buttegieg, O’Rourke

  141. 141

    @Omnes Omnibus: I would argue that his policies aren’t that solid, they are long on rhetoric and short on specifics. He is good with coming up with slogans but no so good with details that would make the policy work.
    For example, m4A, breakup banks etc. He is another T with similar Russian sympathies, crazy hair and a New Yawk accent. And yes waving his finger in your face while shouting at the top of his lungs.

  142. 142
    tobie says:

    @Kraux Pas: @Fair Economist: If you’re interested, here’s a link to O’Rourke’s 10-point-immigration plan, posted in February.

    I also thought Leah McEldridge made a nice point about how he’s able to integrate various issues when talking about any one policy question. (In this case it was a segue from $15 minimum wage to pay disparity for women of color to pushing for the ERA.)

  143. 143
    NotMax says:

    @Matt McIrvin

    This. Overton window has moved the center so far to the right that it wraps around the corner of the wall.

  144. 144
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hildebrand: I am not seeing what others seem to see in Castro. I have nothing against him, but, at this point, I don’t see any reason to put him above “Generic Democrat” in my internal list.

  145. 145
    Betty Cracker says:

    @trollhattan: Gillibrand probably won’t even make the debate cut, thanks at least in part to her status as the designated hate-object for Al Franken’s ouster. I don’t think that’s fair since, IIRC, every female Democrat in the Senate (except Klobuchar) and a passel of men also called for Franken’s resignation in what was obviously a coordinated effort. But there’s no justice in politics. Maybe on the day she drops out, the “but muh Franken” peeps on Twitter can croak out one final, “From hell’s heart, I stab at thee,” and finally give it a fucking rest.

  146. 146

    @tobie: His plan doesn’t address legal immigration which has gone from a waking nightmare to absolute hell in the last two years.

  147. 147
    germy says:

    I've always been an underdog. I'm used to it. I've also won every race I've run. So when I say I'm not worried about being discounted now, you can believe it. pic.twitter.com/iLh51neXiT— Kirsten Gillibrand (@SenGillibrand) April 25, 2019

  148. 148
    tobie says:

    Am I the only one who with all of this shocking North Korean news suddenly wants more emphasis on foreign policy in the primaries? That may be the place where Biden has the edge unless it becomes a consistent theme on the trail soon. Then again others tell me that Americans don’t care about foreign policy, but I’m scared as shit about the number of five-alarm fires that may go off soon (war with Iran, a fully nuclearized Asia and Middle East, Brexit, rightwing populism in Europe, emboldened Russia, etc.).

  149. 149
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: My comment was more a joke than anything else. I really don’t need a lecture about why Sanders sucks. But thanks for playing.

  150. 150
    mad citizen says:

    Gillibrand impressed me very much in a March town hall I saw on TV. I really want one of the 3-4 women to be The One. Aside from all the policy stuff, I hope there will be a lot of talk about how they will perform the job, in contrast to now. Restore work ethic and dignity to the office after the fumigation.

  151. 151
    ruemara says:

    @rikyrah: I’m kinda glad about this. Melody has really put George on a good path on some things.

  152. 152
    patrick II says:

    @trollhattan:

    All kidding aside, being that much smarter than most of the people you are trying to communicate with can be a real problem. People feel condescended to when things get too complicated. That problem gets exacerbated by conservative polemics that emphasize how ignorant smart democrats make you feel (why should you let the condescending liberal elite intellectuals tell you what to do when you have common sense) Warren has an earthiness, let’s get a beer together persona that helps and a real likeability, but she is going to get pounded by Republicans because she is a very smart woman who doesn’t know her place and therefore dangerous.

  153. 153
  154. 154
    NotMax says:

    @Betty Cracker

    Everything I’ve seen in the past from Gillibrand campaigns reeks of a combination of opportunism and entitlement.

    YMMV.

  155. 155
    mad citizen says:

    @tobie: Humans are blowing it around the world. Didn’t we used to promote Democracy as the best form of government.

  156. 156
    JR says:

    @VeniceRiley: Good list.

    My list is mostly even with some lean-for and lean-against and one lean-very against

    Lean-for are Warren, Harris
    Lean-against is Buttagieg, Sanders
    Lean-very-against is Gabbard

  157. 157
    trollhattan says:

    @Betty Cracker:
    I’d like to think that’s water under the bridge but fear you’re spot on.

  158. 158
    tobie says:

    @schrodingers_cat: No doubt there’s room for expansion. I just like the thoroughness with respect to the southern border. That said, my concerns about foreign policy right now are making me reconsider my choices. We need a steady hand at the helm. This pushes me back to Klobuchar.

    @mad citizen: I think what we’re seeing is that without the US promoting democracy, there’s a power vacuum and autocrats are rushing in to fill it.

  159. 159
    Archon says:

    I’m not voting for Biden but people feel like they know him and trust him. Add to the fact the Biden has the space to say gruff, bar room comments about Trump in ways other candidates can’t.

    Biden’s candidacy is going to be formidable, people shouldn’t let their personal ideological and personal views ignore that fact.

  160. 160
    chopper says:

    The world has changed, and Joe Biden has not. He could have ridden off into the sunset, a hero for his past accomplishments and his popularity during the Obama years.

    he could have helped by stumping for the democratic nominee, along with O. hopefully his candidacy ends gracefully enough that he still can.

  161. 161
    Brachiator says:

    @tobie:

    Am I the only one who with all of this shocking North Korean news suddenly wants more emphasis on foreign policy in the primaries?

    Yep, probably. :)

    I think that foreign policy is important, but I am not sure how much emphasis it should be given. Part of the issue here, for me, is that few journalists know anything about foreign policy and ask stupid or obvious questions, so the discussion goes nowhere. However, this is another area where Democrats should do well. I suspect, however, that most of the candidates other than Biden will need to study up on the issues before they can offer much deeper than the assurance that they will be better than Trump.

  162. 162
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    What if we had good public policy that ignored minorities, women, and immigrants?

    That would be Sanders.

    Now, now…I haven’t seen any indication that he intends to explicitly exclude women and minorities, maybe immigrants.

    Also, the policy specifics will clearly be left to Congress.

  163. 163
    Harbison says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    In normal times, that would be a very astute observation, but I think you grossly underestimate the pivotal role the nonagenarian vote will play in the 2020 election.

  164. 164
    rp says:

    @germy: @germy: Cory Doctorow is a colossal ahole.

  165. 165
    chopper says:

    @germy:

    only trump would have so little self-awareness as to call joe ‘handsy’ or ‘too old’.

  166. 166
    TenguPhule says:

    @Cacti:

    The Iowa Caucuses aren’t for almost 10 more months.

    There is reasonable doubt that this country is going to still be in one piece by then.

  167. 167
    VeniceRiley says:

    Biden … Said Trump is “a charlatan” but his voters “aren’t prejudiced, they’re realistic.” So, I guess he’s playing for the white vote.
    Throwing POC under the bus right out of the gate is not a good primary look!

  168. 168
    MomSense says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    I really liked this interview with Kamala Harris and Jon Favreau of Pod Save America.

    Harris Favs

  169. 169
    Another Scott says:

    @Brachiator: I used to think that foreign policy was a big important differentiator for presidential candidates, now I’m not so sure. I think it’s more important that the gal or guy running is a sensible person who thinks and learns and knows how to pick good people. Foreign policy needs lots of continuity even when we want to make changes. A president needs to pick someone experienced to run it, not think that because he read some hot takes from the CFR or a Moustache of Understanding book that s/he knows what they should do.

    So, I feel better about Warren and Harris and similarly more domestically-focused people now from that vantage point. She knows what she knows, knows how to learn more, and knows how to pick good people. That’s good enough for me.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  170. 170
    chopper says:

    @germy:

    forget it jake – it’s bernietown.

  171. 171
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am not seeing what others seem to see in Castro. I have nothing against him, but, at this point, I don’t see any reason to put him above “Generic Democrat” in my internal list.

    Concur. I like him, but he didn’t distinguish himself at all in the Obama administration. Generic D it is!

  172. 172
    Brachiator says:

    @patrick II:

    Warren has an earthiness, let’s get a beer together persona that helps and a real likeability,

    I don’t get this “earthiness” thing from Warren at all, but your mileage may vary.

    I think the “let’s get a beer together” thing is nonsense that has helped give us crappier politicians. It is a totally false way of attempting to judge politicians, but I acknowledge that this nonsense seems to be important to a lot of voters. But it don’t mean squat. In some ways, it reduces politics to fandom.

    but she is going to get pounded by Republicans because she is a very smart woman who doesn’t know her place and therefore dangerous.

    True, but there may not be much answer for this but to carry on anyway. And fortunately, I think a lot of Democratic voters rejected this nonsense and are not going to let it affect them. The midterms was a portent of better times ahead for women candidates.

  173. 173
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @mad citizen: Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.

  174. 174
    Leto says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    Maybe on the day she drops out, the “but muh Franken” peeps on Twitter can croak out one final, “From hell’s heart, I stab at thee,” and finally give it a fucking rest.

    “It’s an older reference sir, but still valid.”

  175. 175
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @rp:

    Cory Doctorow is a colossal ahole.

    QFT!

  176. 176

    @tobie: What makes you think she would be good with foreign policy?

  177. 177
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Brachiator:

    I don’t get this “earthiness” thing from Warren at all, but your mileage may vary.

    I like that she can talk about complex issues in very relatable ways and can come up with both simple and more complex ideas to solve real problems. On personality, she reminds me of most of my favorite teachers or a fun aunt.

  178. 178
    Aleta says:

    Tom Winter @Tom_Winter



    The U.S. Attorney’s Office in Boston has indicted Massachusetts state judge Shelley Richmond and a court officer with obstruction of justice tied to an effort to impede an ICE officer from taking custody of a person who had been in the U.S. illegally, according to court docs


    According to the indictment, a person by the name of “A.S.” had been charged by local police with narcotics possession and for being a fugitive from justice in Pennsylvania. The judge allegedly worked with a defense attorney to let the man leave through the back exit to the court

    
For those that asked, the indictment says that ICE did have a detainer and warrant of removal for the individual.


  179. 179
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @schrodingers_cat: Her Madeleine Albright hairstyle.

  180. 180
    TenguPhule says:

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t think that’s fair since, IIRC, every female Democrat in the Senate (except Klobuchar) and a passel of men also called for Franken’s resignation in what was obviously a coordinated effort.

    She then decided the process needed to be observed when the next round of accusations came out and splashed mud on her by proxy instead of leading a lynching mob again.

    People noticed.

  181. 181
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    . What if we had good public policy that ignored minorities, women, and immigrants?

    The 1950s all over again?

  182. 182
    Gravenstone says:

    @mad citizen:

    Didn’t we used to promote Democracy as the best form of government.

    Historically, we’ve given huge amounts of lip service to that ideal. But when push cam to shove, we were just fine with a friendly despot here, there or everywhere. Just so long as those despots remembered who they needed to be beholden to.

  183. 183
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax: You’re not alone.

  184. 184
    patrick II says:

    Biden was not the winning candidate in the 2007/2008 primary season, but he gave my three favorite answers:

    Perhaps no one’s more aware of Biden’s knack for droning on about a subject or getting in trouble for speaking a little too candidly than the vice president himself. When asked by NBC News’s Brian Williams in a 2007 Democratic primary debate whether he could reassure voters he has the discipline he would need to be president on the world stage:

    Biden: “Yes.”
    …..Long Pause….
    Williams: “Is there anything you wish to add?”
    Biden: “NO”

    A 2008 Democratic presidential primary debate in which he had this to say about then-GOP presidential contender and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani:

    Biden: “There only three things he mentions in a sentence: A noun and a verb and 9/11, I mean, there’s nothing else.”

  185. 185
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @lamh36:

    Get off the blogs folks and talk to regular folks

    Ew gross!

  186. 186
    TenguPhule says:

    House Oversight and Reform Committee Chairman Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.) announced plans on Tuesday to hold one Trump administration official who defied a subpoena in contempt of Congress and has threatened a second with the same punishment if he failed to show for a Thursday deposition. And with Trump promising to bar all former and current aides from testifying, the House began confronting the possibility of issuing multiple contempt citations and initiating civil litigation to defend its oversight role.

    “This is a massive, unprecedented, and growing pattern of obstruction,” Cummings said in a statement Wednesday.

    The problem with Congress’s powers is that most of them rely on rules and norms that Trump doesn’t give a shit about because the Legislative branch has traditionally relied on the either the Justice Dept or the Courts for enforcement of its authority.

    American law is devolving into might makes right.

  187. 187

    @Brachiator:

    fortunately, I think a lot of Democratic voters rejected this nonsense

    From what I can tell, liberal leaning women who used to not vote are so absolutely royally pissed by the misogyny that carried the 2016 election and has been on proud display since, that they will crawl over broken glass now to vote against that misogyny. That seems to be what caused the 2018 wave.

  188. 188
    Miss Bianca says:

    @BobS: “singing the praises” of Senator Sanders is far, far beyond what I will be capable of if that alte kocher manages to hijack the Democratic nomination. Refraining from slagging him and reluctantly voting for him is the most I will be able to do. As a long-time Democratic Party committee member, I invite you to kiss my ass for the Jill Stein comparision.

  189. 189
    grandpa john says:

    Required reading for politicians

    Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism, 1711. English poet & satirist (1688 – 1744)Be not the first by whom the new are tried, Nor yet the last to lay the old aside.

    there are quite a few other notable quotes found in this essay

  190. 190
    Miss Bianca says:

    @lamh36: I am with you.

  191. 191
    tobie says:

    @schrodingers_cat: The fact that she is unflappable. And that she made a point of emphasizing our strategic alliances and cybersecurity in her announcement speech. One of the weird things this year is that none of the candidates running has a track record in foreign policy with the exception of Biden and possibly Inslee who as Gov of Washington did have to negotiate trade agreements.

  192. 192
    Immanentize says:

    @tobie: I do not think we have heard the full Warmbier story yet. But if people get on Trump’s case about Otto, he will throw him under the bus in a heartbeat.

  193. 193
    Cacti says:

    @Jeffro:

    The voting rights for incarcerated felons thing is a yuge unforced error for Wilmer. If that’s a hill he wants to die on, I’m happy to let that play out.

  194. 194
    tobie says:

    @Immanentize: Someone signed off on the payments and that person wants the news of the ransom payment out without having his/her name attached to it. It was the US envoy sent to North Korea to collect Warmbier, so someone will figure out the name soon. No doubt Trump will deny everything. It’s his MO.

  195. 195
    Kraux Pas says:

    @TenguPhule:

    What if we had good public policy that ignored minorities, women, and immigrants?

    The 1950s all over again?

    MAGA with policy chops. I hope the music is better this time.

  196. 196
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Harbison:
    Just in case you’re not snarking:
    1) I think you overestimate both the number of nonagenarians as a proportion of voters in 2020 and their willingness to entrust high public office to someone with the frailties of their age.
    2) I also think Jimmy Carter has better things to do now than run for president.

  197. 197

    @Omnes Omnibus: Needs fugly brooches and pins for the total look.

  198. 198
    Death Panel Truck says:

    @Kraux Pas:

    So enthusiastic that I would be volunteering for one right now if not for the other:
    Warren
    Harris

    Absolutely. They are the top tier for me as well.

  199. 199
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Betty Cracker: Franken-peeps ftw, Betty! LOL!

  200. 200
    Cameron says:

    @Geoduck: It sort of makes sense in terms of Delaware Valley politics (if you’re into that ‘corporate Democrat’ thing). Comcast is headquartered in Philadelphia, and David Cohen was Ed Rendell’s chief of staff when Ed was mayor.

  201. 201
    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism says:

    @Betty Cracker: I suspect that’s as much because it’s the only thing a lot of people knew about her at the time. The other women with her had made themselves known on other issues. Her later comments about Bill Clinton reinforced the image of her as a one-note canary. And it’s still the first thing that comes to mind when her name comes up. Everything else she’s done or said has been so generic it’s not memorable.

  202. 202
    Leto says:

    @tobie: I would say subpoena the records but good fucking luck with getting that request honored at the moment.

  203. 203
  204. 204
    Kraux Pas says:

    @Leto:

    I would say subpoena the records but good fucking luck with getting that request honored at the moment.

    The fight between Congress and the White House about documents and testimony is going to come down to the Supreme Court. Oddly, I have a lot of faith that Roberts will come down on the right side of this issue and secure a majority.

  205. 205
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Ruviana: Yes. I was already on board for Obama, but to me, Edwards radiated phoniness like heat from a Ben Franklin stove from the get-go. Of course, I had no idea what a scumbag he really was…

  206. 206
    catclub says:

    @Leto:

    I would say subpoena the records but good fucking luck with getting that request honored at the moment.

    I would think the Democrats should have subpeonaed various records that the Trump government would be willing to turn over, first.
    Tax records of Hillary Clinton, for instance. ( maybe not that blatant)

  207. 207
    Just Chuck says:

    @catclub: You really think Trump would accede to turning over financial records simply because there were others who had their records subpoenaed? Besides, Clinton is not the POTUS with shady financial connections.

  208. 208
    Fair Economist says:

    @Betty Cracker: There was a link posted here to somebody tracking who is in the debates and Gillibrand is already in by virtue of three polls above 1%. Basically everybody announced so far is in or will be in a week or two. 14 are qualified now and two more will be shortly.

  209. 209
    Darrin Ziliak (formerly glocksman) says:

    @germy:

    Indeed, fuck Joe Biden.
    The more I learn about his record in the Senate, the more I dislike him.
    The Senator from Capital One will only get my support in the General, and that only because he’s running against Trump.

  210. 210
    low-tech cyclist says:

    Union-Busting Lawyer to Host Biden’s 1st Fundraiser Thursday

    PITTSBURGH, PA. – On Monday, Vice President Joe Biden intends to launch his presidential campaign at the Teamsters Local 249 in Pittsburgh with United Steelworkers President Leo Gerard appearing alongside him.

    However, first, on Thursday, Biden is hosting a $2,800 dollar-a-plate fundraiser at the mansion of Comcast Executive President David Cohen in Philadelphia. Among the dozen select political power players on the host committee for Biden’s 1st fundraiser are Steven Cozen, founder and chairman of the union-busting law firm Cozen O’Connor.

    According to Cozen O’Connor website, the firm specializes in union busting advertising that it helps employers to “avoid unionization through positive employee relations and regain nonunion status when employees indicate they no longer wish to be union-represented”.

    The firm also boasts on its website that it helps employers to lock out their unionized workforce.

    He’s such a friend of the white working class that the founder of a major union-busting law firm can be one of the hosts for his first fundraiser.

    I hope the Teamsters and Steelworkers ask him about that. I’m all for the Dems being a big-tent party, but you can only stretch it so far.

  211. 211
    celiadexter says:

    John pretty much sums up how I feel. Thanks.
    Needless to say, if he somehow gets the nomination I’ll bust my tail and open my wallet for him, and so should all of you.

  212. 212
    Ruviana says:

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah, he turned out to be quite a disappointment.

  213. 213
    TenguPhule says:

    @low-tech cyclist:

    Union-Busting Lawyer to Host Biden’s 1st Fundraiser Thursday

    Steve in the ATL, you traitor.

  214. 214
    jk says:

    @germy:

    I’ll second that Fuck Biden sentiment. He’s a goddamn phony who’s no friend of working class voters. He brings absolutely nothing to the table. He’s too old, too tired, and his public speaking skills are fucking atrocious.

    you can almost forget about the good he has done.

    You’ll need a very powerful electron microscope to find the good that Biden has done.

  215. 215
    Tim Weston says:

    “It’s time for the kids to take over, Joe” Pete Townshend agrees ! Oh, wait…

  216. 216
    Jinchi says:

    @Hungry Joe: That’s right. All the early media matchups of 2008 were Clinton/Giuliani. Other candidats were ignored. He polled 10-20 points ahead of the pack well through December of 2007 when his numbers cratered as McCain, Huckabee and Romney came out of nowhere and started catching on.

  217. 217
    mrmoshpotato says:

    Anyone else want Obama to tweet ‘Oh Joe. What are you doing?’

  218. 218
    catclub says:

    @Just Chuck:

    You really think Trump would accede to turning over financial records simply because there were others who had their records subpoenaed?

    I was thinking that the IRS would turn over someone else’s records if requested, which would then be a precedent for turning over Trump’s.

  219. 219
    rikyrah says:

    @Ajabu:

    My wife will come around when Kamala Gets white folks voting for her in the primaries like Barack in 2008.

    said for awhile…
    Kamala has to prove that White NON-Californians will vote for her. If she can accomplish that….she has a serious shot.

  220. 220
    catclub says:

    @Jinchi: No love for Fred Thompson?

  221. 221
    Brachiator says:

    @Ruviana:

    Real question–did Edwards seem to you a smarmy prick at the time? I was originally for him based on his poverty platform before I switched to Obama.

    I vaguely recall that quite a few people viewed Edwards as an honest-to-goodness populist, a man who cared about the people and who was more admirable and authentic than the other candidates.

    A polling tidbit from Newsweek, 2009:

    Here’s a record John Edwards probably won’t brag about: a new Gallup poll finds the two-time Democratic presidential hopeful, who has been caught up in personal drama over an affair with a former campaign worker, has suffered the single biggest slide in public opinion ever recorded for a prominent public figure in consecutive polling. According to Gallup, more people than ever—59 percent—view Edwards negatively, while just 21 percent view him “favorably.” That’s a 27 percent decrease in approval since January 2008, the last time Gallup gauged Edward’s popularity with the public. By Gallup’s measure, that’s the biggest decline it’s recorded since 1992, when they first began polling people on the “favorable” or “unfavorable” question.

  222. 222
    NotMax says:

    @catclub

    They have always done so with alacrity in the past.

    One of the reasons the law giving the committee chair authority to receive returns was put into place (immediately post Teapot Dome) was to remove any shield a high office might claim.

  223. 223
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Brachiator: I remember watching Edwards debate Dick Cheney somewhere – Jesus, was he a VP candidate for Kerry? – do I remember that aright? – and getting pissed at what I considered to be a cheap gotcha about Cheney’s daughter being gay. I figured anyone who would make me root for Dick fucking Cheney for even a moment was not someone I could take seriously as a “populist”.

  224. 224
    TenguPhule says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    Jesus, was he a VP candidate for Kerry? – do I remember that aright?

    Yes, he was.

  225. 225
    Brachiator says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Anyone else want Obama to tweet ‘Oh Joe. What are you doing?’

    No.

  226. 226
    TenguPhule says:

    @catclub:

    I was thinking that the IRS would turn over someone else’s records if requested, which would then be a precedent for turning over Trump’s.

    IOKIYAR applies only to Republicans..

  227. 227
    Brachiator says:

    @Miss Bianca:

    I remember watching Edwards debate Dick Cheney somewhere – Jesus, was he a VP candidate for Kerry? – do I remember that aright? – and getting pissed at what I considered to be a cheap gotcha about Cheney’s daughter being gay. I figured anyone who would make me root for Dick fucking Cheney for even a moment was not someone I could take seriously as a “populist”.

    Edwards was trying to bring up support for same-sex marriage, which Cheney opposed. But his attempt fell flat and apparently came across as a cheap shot to some.

    From WaPo:

    2004: Dick Cheney tells John Edwards: “The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight”; Edwards brings up Cheney’s daughter

    Cheney immediately sought to take some of the sheen off of Edwards, then a rising Democratic star. And the incumbent vice president held his own during the debate, in which he immediately went on offense, casting Edwards as simply a recent arrival. “The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight,” he said.

    Later in the debate, after Cheney explained his support for the Bush administration’s position on a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage, Edwards brought up Cheney’s daughter, who is a lesbian. Cheney’s response was curt: “Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.”

    “That’s it?” asked moderator Gwen Ifill? “That’s it,” replied Cheney.

  228. 228
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @TenguPhule: I’m Team Kamala, just hedging my bet here!

  229. 229
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Brachiator: Yeah, I remembered it being connected to something I actually supported – wow, was it only 15 years ago that same-sex marriage was even controversial? Yes, yes it was! – but the way Edwards did it came off really snide.

  230. 230
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Jeffery: Agree, I liked Biden’s full-on attack on Trump and all who admire him.

    It’s an important point and it can not be said loudly or often enough: this is not who we say we are, we should be ashamed.

    Many voters will be largely motivated by the desire to see Trump leave the White House, and it is good to remind them the way to accomplish that is to vote Democratic.

    Required disclaimer: still far from my first choice, broken glass crawled upon anyway. (Can we get an acronym for this disclaimer, you know, something along the lines of IOIYAR? It sure would speed things up).

  231. 231
    agorabum says:

    Someone who was a Senator for so long and then VP for 8 years doesn’t throw away their legacy by losing another campaign. His legacy is generally fine; he’ll take some shots and then be in the doldrums for awhile after he concedes, but the overall legacy will recover. Unless he does something extra dumb and terrible while on the campaign trail (and there’s so much terrible and dumb stuff going on, it will have to be really major to make a dent)

  232. 232
    johnnybuck says:

    Joe Biden has every right to run for President if he wants too. You don’t have to support him if you don’t want to. I’m already growing weary of the way this blogs slogs every fucking candidate that declares. It’s 18 months until the next election. can’t we at least wait for the campaign to begin in earnest before we tear the whole thing down?

    Biden will be a formidable candidate. Stop looking through the prism of campaigns past. 2008 is a million years ago, hell 2016 is a century. This country is nothing like it was 3 years ago. The candidate that bests Biden in the primary will be battle tested and ready, and have an advocate in Joe fucking Biden that will bind our wounds and unify our party in ways no other challenger can. And unlike fucking Bernie sanders he will be a happy warrior on behalf of the nominee, mercilessly laughing and mocking Trump all the way.

    I say this as a Harris supporter, but as I said in an earlier thread, we could do a hell of a lot worse than Joe Biden as a second or third alternate.

  233. 233
    r€nato says:

    another corporatist Democrat. I can already hear the “Joe Clinton” ads from the Trump campaign, and they would not be wrong to call him that. He’s too much like Hillz, do we really want a re-run of 2016?

  234. 234
    r€nato says:

    @johnnybuck: sure, Joe has every right to run and should he win the nomination I will of course vote for him (with a heavy sigh).

    But I hope he goes out early in the process. It’s time for a new generation of Dems to take charge.

  235. 235
    J R in WV says:

    @khead:

    .
    Did you see the Hogan footage …
    .

    Who the Hell is Hogan, other than a former wrestling goomba?

  236. 236
    J R in WV says:

    @rp:

    .
    Cory Doctorow is a colossal ahole.
    .

    Just NO! The asshole in this conversation is far more likely to be you.

  237. 237
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @J R in WV: Canadian Bernie bro concern troll is not an asshole? I strongly disagree.

  238. 238
    Jinchi says:

    @johnnybuck: I think a lot of the reaction to Biden is the fact that he’s being framed as the most “electable” candidate in every report about his candidacy. This is pretty offensive given the subtext that very specifically implies that women, minorities, liberals and young people (meaning 50 year olds) are incapable of defeating the most reviled President in history. That’s pretty much a description of the entire population of new voters who gave Democrats their biggest victory in decades.

    Biden pushes this point himself, he has literally that he thinks he’s the only one who can defeat Trump.

    Personally, I think he’s one of the least electable candidates. we’re in an era where getting elected requires that you inspire people to get to the polls. I don’t think there is anybody outside of DC who is passionate about electing Biden.

    Sanders, Harris, Warren, even Beto and Buttigieg have a solid core of voters. Whats’s tge question Biden is the answer to?

  239. 239
    Irony Abounds says:

    I’m going to try not to hate on any of the candidates, though that will difficult when it comes to Gabbard and not entirely easy when it comes to Sanders only because the Bernie Bots seem to be using a scorched earth strategy and they are also the ones most likely to abandon the Dem candidate if it isn’t Bernie. I can understand women and people of color getting pissed if yet another white male gets the nod, but I think they will reluctantly back whomever the Dems pick in order to get rid of #DerangedDonald. Sanders’ supporters, not so much. I have to laugh at people complaining that Biden is too old and too tired to run, which isn’t to say I wouldn’t prefer a younger person, but if Biden does win that will show he isn’t too old and tired to run and if he loses so what, where’s the downside to anyone other than Biden. Just don’t want the purity police to blow up the Dem and give us another 4 years of Trump.

  240. 240
    Richard Guhl says:

    The upside of Biden’s entry into the race is that it likely prevents Sanders from gaining two decisive wins to start the nomination process.

  241. 241

    Here’s Trump’s response of Joe Biden entering the race…

    “Welcome to the race Sleepy Joe. I only hope you have the intelligence, long in doubt, to wage a successful primary campaign. It will be nasty – you will be dealing with people who truly have some very sick & demented ideas. But if you make it, I will see you at the Starting Gate!”

    The words T-rump uses against Biden like doubtful intelligence, nasty and sick and demented are the perfect verbiage to describe a Donald Trump.

  242. 242
    J R in WV says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    I also think Jimmy Carter has better things to do now than run for president.

    He’s still kissing his wife of 50 however more years on TV… and shot a wild turkey in the Georgia piney woods to boot. A better man at his age than Trump ever was or will be!

    I doubt Trump will ever get a spook Nuke submarine named for him. Look that boat up if you care to, the most famous unmentionable secret resume of any submarine ever.

  243. 243
    J R in WV says:

    @Steve in the ATL: .

    @J R in WV: Canadian Bernie bro concern troll is not an asshole? I strongly disagree.

    No, no, Cory Doctorow is a Scots socialist science fiction author, not an asshole. Supposed commenter is probably an ass…

  244. 244
    Ruckus says:

    Just had an interesting talk with a 92 yr old woman who has been a life long republican. She used the phrase “made America great” at one point during the discussion and it was about things when she was a lot younger. Some time long ago this was probably a phrase and the WH dipshit must have heard it about life when he was younger and dad was still providing for him. Because that’s about the time she was discussing. And she’s an everyone has to use english, it’s america after all and that was what made it great that all these people came over here and learned to speak english and they don’t do that now. I wonder how many old olds are like this. This woman is about a decade younger than my parents would be but a lot of her growing up was around immigrants, as was my parents. She also thought that the world should be the same as it was then. She really couldn’t see that the world isn’t the same as it was decades ago.

  245. 245
    smintheus says:

    Ali got paid to hit people in the face. Say what you want about Biden’s faults, he never stooped that low. Let’s stop mythologizing boxers.

  246. 246
    Zinsky says:

    I love Joe but his best days are behind him. I agree 100% with Cole on this one. Knowing when to quit or retire is one of the most important decisions one makes in life, next to choosing a mate. Joe has made a very poor decision, in that context.

  247. 247
    smintheus says:

    @Ruckus:

    she’s an everyone has to use english

    So she’s against free speech?

  248. 248
    jk says:

    @johnnybuck:

    In a field with many qualified female and minority candidates, i have no patience for an uninspiring and over the hill white guy. Biden is a jerk who ran two pathetic presidential races and I look forward to his withdrawal.

  249. 249
    Ruckus says:

    @smintheus:
    She’s a republican. Has been her entire life. She’s 92. Still pretty lucid but she’s starting to confuse dates and things. Known her for 6 yrs.
    And probably yes, says you live here you speak english, or go home.

  250. 250
    Qui-Gon Jinn says:

    Tell me again…what is the definition of insanity (apart from its embodiment by Trump)?

    Joe Biden is the Hillary Clinton of 2020 – and it won’t end well this time either

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/26/joe-biden-is-the-hillary-clinton-of-2020-and-it-wont-end-well-this-time-either

  251. 251
    No One You Know says:

    @r€nato: Hilz won the vote, remember. The Russian ratfucking cheated her.

    I’m getting tired of hearing how “she lost.” She didn’t. Anyone can run. I will be supporting the best candidate depending on how things develop. No reason to declares this early, and every reason to support who seems to speak the best for the majority and for the values that we’r stand for, in law and in spirit.

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