Three Cheers For WSAZ

WSAZ, the NBC affiliate for Huntington-Charleston, WV, had some guests on promoting the Queens Slay Cancer Drag Show at Marshall University, an event to raise money for cancer. Predictably, the Family Policy Council of West Virginia, affiliates of Focus on the Family, lost their shit.

Hats off to WSAZ’s Tim Irr for this public response:

The Family Policy Council of West Virginia took exception with one of our guests yesterday on First Look at Four. The young man was one of two guests being interviewed about upcoming events to raise money for the American Cancer Society.

The event in which he’s participating is the Queens Slay Cancer Drag Show at Marshall University, at 6 p.m. Friday, April 27. All the money raised at the event, and the other events discussed on our show yesterday, will go the American Cancer Society.

Our guests were not there to forward some type of political or social agenda. They were not promoting adherence to a certain lifestyle. They did not speak negatively about or demean anyone in any way. They simply promoted events meant to raise money to fight cancer.

Drag shows may not be your cup of tea. Undoubtedly, they have a somewhat limited, but very supportive target audience. You may not consider members of the LGBTQ community worthy of your friendship, or even your respect, which is rather sad from a humanity standpoint. Perhaps your religious beliefs put you at odds with something you see as immoral.

We all feel the need to pick our battles in life. There are plenty of people who believe they have a moral responsibility to stand up for their religious convictions, and how they would like to see those convictions applied to the rules of our society.

Conversely, there are plenty of people who see no redeeming value whatsoever in a society guided by what they perceive as religious intolerance. That battle will no doubt play out for many years to come at the ballot box, in the street, in our homes and on social media.

But dragging people down who are simply trying to raise money for something like cancer research — on their own time, in their own way… no matter how you may feel about it — just seems mean-spirited and very wrong. Perhaps the way we feel about the “other side” is best kept in our own thoughts, especially in a situation like this.

Fucking American Taliban.






168 replies
  1. 1
    psycholinguist says:

    Wow, that’s a beautiful response.

  2. 2
    rikyrah says:

    That is a great response.

    clap clap clap

  3. 3
    bemused senior says:

    Lying here living through my first round of chemo, and wondering how people can be so idiotic. Thanks for sanity at that radio station.

  4. 4
    West of the Cascades says:

    Wow, can NBC call up Tim Irr from its minor league affiliate to replace Chuck Todd?

  5. 5
    Miss Bianca says:

    Perhaps the way we feel about the “other side” is best kept in our own thoughts, especially in a situation like this.

    I gotta remember this one – it applies to me as well as a *lot* of other people I can think of.

  6. 6
    West of the Rockies says:

    Brilliant response. No doubt it will purse the lips and tighten the sphincters of some people–too damn bad.

  7. 7
    TenguPhule says:


    ‘It’s not a little child’: gynecologists join the fight against six-week abortion bans

    High-profile gynecologists are criticizing the framing of six-week abortion bans, known as “fetal heartbeat” bills, as medically inaccurate.

    The bans, now moving through nearly a dozen state legislatures, propose the strictest limitations on the right to abortion as established by the US supreme court case Roe v Wade in 1973.

    “These bills present the idea that there’s something that looks like what you or a person on the street would call a baby – a thing that’s almost ready to go for a walk,” said Dr Jen Gunter, a gynecologist in Canada and the US who runs an influential blog. “In reality, you’re talking about something that’s millimeters in size and doesn’t look anything like that.”

    @Miss Bianca: And sometimes you really have to shout out exactly what the other side actually are.

  8. 8
    laura says:

    That Tim Irr is a raised right man!

  9. 9
    Raoul says:

    You may not consider members of the LGBTQ community worthy of your friendship, or even your respect, which is rather sad from a humanity standpoint.

    Well said. Unfortunately, the Family Policy Council of West Virginia more or less thinks the LGBTQ community isn’t worth of liberty or possibly even life. They are, as OP suggests, talibangelicals. Our pluralism is meeting serious tests these days: how to manage people whose competing views on one hand are ‘live and let live’ while the other is ‘murder and mayhem in defense of patriarchy is no vice’.

  10. 10
    TenguPhule says:

    Via the Guardian, Trump’s latest bullshit

    Just before boarding the presidential helicopter, Marine One, Trump responded to questions about the Mueller report, proclaiming: “we’re fighting all the subpoenas.”

    Q1: What do you plan to do about this subpoena for Don McGahn?
    The subpoena is ridiculous. … We just went through the Mueller witch hunt where you had really 18 angry Democrats that hate President Trump. They hate him with a passion… And they came up with no collusion and they actually also came up with no obstruction. But our attorney general ruled based on the information there was no obstruction. So you had no collusion, no obstruction. Now we’re finished with it and I thought after two years we’d be finished with it. No. Now the House goes and starts subpoenas. They want to do every deal I’ve ever done. Now Mueller, I assume, for 35 million dollars, checked my taxes, checked my financials – which are great, by the way…. They checked my financials and they checked my taxes, I assume. It was the most thorough investigation probably in the history of our country…. I say it’s enough. Get back to infrastructure. Get back to cutting taxes. Get back to lowering drug prices.

    Q2: Will you fight the McGahn subpoena?
    We’re fighting all the subpoenas. These aren’t like impartial people. The Democrats are trying to win 2020. They’re not going to win with the people that I see. And they’re not gonna win against me. The only way they can maybe luck out, and I don’t think that’s gonna happen – it might make it even the opposite, that’s what a lot of people are saying – the only way they can luck out is by constantly going after me on nonsense.

    “If you want to litigate, go after the DNC, crooked Hillary, the dirty cops, all of these things… That was a rigged system and I’m breaking down – I am breaking down the swamp. If you look at what’s happening, they’re getting caught, they’re getting fired… If you look at drain the swamp, I am draining the swamp.

  11. 11
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    A central tenet of the anti-abortion movement is completely ignoring physicians. They feel very strongly about this. Physicians must not be consulted. A tribunal composed of a cleric, a male relative and a GOP state rep will make all medical decisions for women, bedside.

  12. 12
    Sirkowski says:

    Christians for cancer.

  13. 13

    This is the future that liberals want.

  14. 14
    Miss Bianca says:

    @TenguPhule: Yeah, it’s knowing *when” and *where*, tho’, that’s my particular challenge right now. And *how*. I could stand to learn from my nymsake about how to stay a muthafukkin’ LADY while I’m rescuing prisoners and righting wrongs and shit.

    Good to see you back, btw.

  15. 15
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay: I am astounded that so many Republicans apparently read the Handmaid’s Tale and now want to live there.

  16. 16
    TenguPhule says:

    @Miss Bianca: Thanks.

    Missed reading you folks too.

  17. 17
    Kay says:

    It’s been going on for a while, but this is a real constitutional crisis now. The low quality Trump hires are refusing to submit to Congress’ lawful authority. They’re a rogue executive branch. You don’t have to scream it with your hair on fire, but I do think you have to admit it’s happening. I myself thought it would be more dramatic and less petty- something like War Powers or Seizing The Steel Mills, instead of “we’re sleazy, self-interested crooks and we don’t want to reveal our shitty, mean-spirited machinations” but it was probably much more likely to happen this way, really. It’s oddly a let-down, still.

    But a crisis nonetheless. Turns out it doesn’t really matter WHY the executive branch goes rogue. It can just be to steal unimpeded.

  18. 18
    bemused says:

    I’m so tired of reading about these troglodytes. We need to hound them back into their fetid closets.

  19. 19
    randy khan says:

    There is hope for by-God West Virginia.

    Good for him and the station.

  20. 20
    NotMax says:

    Q: Who is Dolt 45’s favorite actress?

    A: Lucy Lawless.

    :)

  21. 21
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay: Yep. Its spiraling out of control at this point and I think Nancy Pelosi is probably making a mistake here by still insisting on not endorsing impeachment now. They’re refusing to comply with Congress’s investigations on all fronts. Treasury, Justice, White House, Homeland Security. Its blatant, everyone can see it and the week isn’t over yet.

    Promising to hold Trump accountable means holding him accountable.

  22. 22
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax:

    A: Lucy Lawless.

    You are a bad bad person. //

  23. 23
    TenguPhule says:

    And apparently Trump tweeted this morning that he intends to send more troops to the Mexican border. Armed ones, which he stressed in big all caps letters.

  24. 24
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I trust Pelosi. I think she’s earned it. Not to mention she is the only person who has beaten Donald Trump. One. Nancy Pelosi.
    When someone else kicks his ass the way she did on The Wall, you let me know and that person can take over.

  25. 25
    zhena gogolia says:

    @bemused senior:

    I wish you all the best.

  26. 26
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    It’s good in a way. Congress is rusty. They’re enormously powerful, but they prefer to defer to the executive to avoid accountability. They need this challenge. They’re either up to it or they’re not.

  27. 27
    ruemara says:

    @TenguPhule: What does impeachment now mean?

  28. 28
    waspuppet says:

    Mommy, what’s a PG-13 drag show where everyone is welcome?

    Well, if you’re an American as opposed to being a conservative, the answer the answer depends on the kid’s age. For a very young kid, “It’s a show where everyone dresses up in funny fancy clothes” is perfectly fine.

    Not a very difficult question to answer if you live in the world and know actual people.

  29. 29
    Kay says:

    The 5-4 ruling said courts shouldn’t allow class arbitration unless an agreement clearly authorizes that type of proceeding. It’s the latest in a line of Supreme Court decisions that have backed arbitration and helped companies avoid the prospect of costly class actions filed by workers and consumers.

    Our imperial conservative judges just slammed the courthouse door closed to more of the public.

    You have to be landed gentry to get in there, in front of their regal presence and brilliance. Gross.

  30. 30
    Miss Bianca says:

    @NotMax: I’m betting Lucy would laugh at that, and then probably deck you.

  31. 31
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay: I trust her too, for most things. But I still remember what happened last time she was majority leader and decided not to pursue Bush Jr and Cheney for their crimes and violations and we got a whitewashed 9/11 report, an Iraq War report with no teeth and the defiance of Congressional subpoenas without any consequences by Rove and company. She’s good, but even she makes mistakes.

  32. 32
    rikyrah says:

    I smell phuckery afoot.

    Why the phuck are Democrats getting asked about goddamn INCARCERATED FELONS VOTING.

    Did I MISS it where All FORMER FELONS NOW HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE RESTORED?

    Did I IMAGINE, that, in Florida, EVEN AFTER THE REFERENDUM PASSED – that these muthaphuckas are NOW trying to do POLL TAXES to prevent former felons from getting back their franchise?

    And NOW, I’m supposed to be concerned about FOLKS LOCKED UP?
    If you don’t get the ENTIRE PHUCK OUTTA HERE WITH THIS BULLSHYT.

    The universal Democratic Response to this nonsense :
    Until ALL former Felons have their voting rights fully restored across the 50 states…..don’t ask me about some incarcerated folks.

  33. 33
    Gravenstone says:

    @Miss Bianca: I find I have to self-censor constantly, at least in writing, especially here. When I am alone, I can freely give vent to my worst thoughts and emotions. When others are within earshot, however, I manage not to come across as the hateful ball of spite I feel myself steadily becoming. I’m curious how long I’ll be able to maintain that facade…

  34. 34
    TenguPhule says:

    @ruemara: Begin the official impeachment investigation and start laying out the articles of impeachment. The process can go on for many many months, so its best to start as early as possible to ensure that there is nothing but Impeachment coverage from now until Nov 2020.

    It can then be sent to the Senate in Dec 2020.

  35. 35
    rikyrah says:

    @Kay:

    They need this challenge. They’re either up to it or they’re not.

    true that.

  36. 36
    rikyrah says:

    @TenguPhule:

    They’re refusing to comply with Congress’s investigations on all fronts. Treasury, Justice, White House, Homeland Security. Its blatant, everyone can see it and the week isn’t over yet.

    Promising to hold Trump accountable means holding him accountable.

    Contempt of Congress and fines for these muthaphuckas. Daily fines. Mnuchin and Ross are rich. The minions up under them, nope. So, let’s see how they handle daily fines.

  37. 37
    Ohio Mom says:

    Re: “Mommy, what’s a…”

    Assuming a young kid, how about something like, “It’s like Halloween — grown men dress up as women for fun. They are having a dress up party to raise money to help people who are sick with cancer.”

    Older kids deserve a less vague answer of course.

    Really, kids are going to ask all sorts of questions and parents are going to have to come up with age appropriate answers. It’s in the job description.

    Fundamentalist parents should be glad for a natural opening to teach their children about sinful, repulsive homos, and of the need to be ever viligant about what the lame-stream press is peddling.

    They’re against schools teaching anything remotely related to sex ed, here’s their chance to do some of the teaching they think only they should do. Big chickens and hypocrites but we knew that.

  38. 38
    ruemara says:

    @TenguPhule: Maybe when they’re back in session in DC?

  39. 39
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    They’re enormously powerful, but they prefer to defer to the executive to avoid accountability.

    Unfortunately, much of their enforcement power relied on either the Department of Justice or the Federal Courts.

    Trump has made it clear that DOJ is now his personal fief and the courts are still deferring to the old traditional hands off approach instead of sending in the marshals.

  40. 40
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    So, let’s see how they handle daily fines.

    They’ll ignore them. Who’s going to try and collect it from them, after all?

  41. 41
    leeleeFL says:

    @West of the Rockies: So let it be written, so let it be done!
    Or, Make it so!

  42. 42
    NotMax says:

    Because (a) it’s topically related and (b) everyone can do with a dose of glamorous entertainment, the “Dames” number.

    (Possibly NSFW.)

  43. 43
    TenguPhule says:

    @rikyrah:

    And NOW, I’m supposed to be concerned about FOLKS LOCKED UP?
    If you don’t get the ENTIRE PHUCK OUTTA HERE WITH THIS BULLSHYT.

    Republicans have decided that they don’t care what the law says, they will still deny people their right to vote.

  44. 44
    Ohio Mom says:

    @bemused senior: Here’s to effective treatment and minimal side effects.

    A good number of your fellow Juicers have had cancer and come through the other side. I’m one of them.

    Please keep us posted, we are all cheering you on!

  45. 45
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @TenguPhule: I’m not.

  46. 46
    Harbison says:

    Well Goddamn, that is impressive coming from WSAZ a.k.a. the Tri-State’s News Leader.

  47. 47
    OzarkHillbilly says:

    @Kay: Yes, it’s on now.

  48. 48
    Fleeting Expletive says:

    Thank you, Kay, for this positive view. I have a lot of respect for our Congressional newcomers, and I remember the lions of yore–Senators who didn’t put up with shit. I met Lloyd Benson one time and shaken hands with a fair number of good Democrats. I knew Tom Coburn a little bit in high school and his character has remained consistent throughout. (;/). I cannot imagine that the entire bunch is consistently corrupt. “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.”
    I hope they dig deep. My delegation is a lost cause.

  49. 49
    zhena gogolia says:

    I’m going to be off the grid from this afternoon until Saturday afternoon. I think I really need it. Maybe when I plug back in, Trump will be gone. (I can dream, can’t I?)

  50. 50
    Gravenstone says:

    @ruemara: They’re ignoring subpoenas now, having them ignore them in the course of impeachment hearings might lend the situation enough gravitas that the idiots in the media don’t reflexively hold it against the Democrats. But it won’t make Trump or his minions any more cooperative.

  51. 51
    Harbison says:

    @Ohio Mom:

    Yeah, I would be much more concerned about my young child hearing about “cancer” and asking what it was than about drag.

  52. 52
    Gravenstone says:

    @rikyrah: It’s all talking points intended to create replies that can be weaponized.

  53. 53
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I think the Bush issue with Pelosi was fundamentally different, because, like it or not, some Democrats were complicit or part of the Bush foreign policy. That got lost as the years went on, but many of the Democrats were as “tuff on terror” as the Bushies, post 9/11.

    With Trump they’ve been nearly unanimous in opposition every step of the way. They have no exposure at all.

  54. 54
    NotMax says:

    @zhena gogolia

    Or Dolt 45 will have tweeted that he’s ordered Treasury to replace Jackson’s portrait on the twenty with that of Fred Trump.

    ;)

  55. 55
    trollhattan says:

    Good for them.

    Watch out for a Sinclair hostile takeover. “We will not tolerate this tolerance. Also, since we’re a cancer on society, we must protest anti-cancer initiatives!”

  56. 56
    prostratedragon says:

    @NotMax: Thanks, I’d missed this one. Fabulous all, but Fierstein really has that walk down!

  57. 57
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    With Trump they’ve been nearly unanimous in opposition every step of the way. They have no exposure at all.

    And that’s why I don’t understand her hesitation. It should be simple, do the right thing.

    We should be on the offensive here, but somehow we’re still in “wait and see mode”. All of my instincts are screaming that this is a big tactical and strategic error.

    We can’t give Trump time.

  58. 58
    joel hanes says:

    @Gravenstone:

    I’m curious how long I’ll be able to maintain that facade…

    My best friend for forty years, a classic low-information voter, apparently voted for Trump.
    I’ve been avoiding talking to him for two years now, trying to not have the conversation that we’re going to have, but he’s not my friend any more. He just doesn’t know that yet.

  59. 59
    Wayne Marks says:

    @rikyrah: I agree with daily fines. Nothing will focus a Republican’s mind like hitting them in the purse or the wallet.

  60. 60
    NotMax says:

    @Kay

    Yup. All one need do is look at the D voting on the so-called PATRIOT act.

    (And yes, I know Pelosi was not Speaker at the time.)

  61. 61

    Huh. So apparently a citizen can oppose what he considers to be an unjust law. This is a pretty radical view for the GOP to be adopting. Unfortunately they seem to have forgotten the “you’re still bound by the law even if you oppose it” part.

  62. 62
    joel hanes says:

    @TenguPhule:

    What is it about first one, then three, then ten House subpoenas that you feel is not on the offensive?
    Cummings and Waters and Nadler and Neal were made heads of those committees for a reason.
    AOC and Katie Porter etc. were made members of those committees for a reason.

    But let’s say Pelosi calls for articles of impeachment tomorrow.
    Will the House vote to impeach?
    Are you _sure_ ?
    (Remember that Pelosi is the best whip-count in at least fifty years. I kinda think that the letting the Bushies off the hook that so irks you happened because she knew she didn’t have the votes to make it stick. Pelosi cares about making it stick. “If you come at the king, you’d best not miss.”)

    But let’s say the House votes to impeach next Monday.
    The Senate will vote to acquit, and that’ll be it.
    Trump and the Rs. will have their “witch hunt” theme validated, and it’s still more than a year to 2020.

  63. 63

    @joel hanes: Give it a little more time. Maybe soon he’ll be all, “Yeah, that Trump thing, what the Hell was I thinking?”

  64. 64
    joel hanes says:

    @NotMax:

    the D voting on the so-called PATRIOT act

    Agreed that was shameful, but that was a different time.
    Dem voters would not have had the backs of Dem politicians who stood up against authoritarian measures in the wake of 9/11 : much of the nation was consumed with unreasoning rage and lust for vengeance, crazy with it. It took the wasted lives of four thousand American troops, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives, the waste of three trillion dollars, Terri Schiavo, and Katrina to break the spell.

  65. 65
    rikyrah says:

    Waiting Is for White People: The Privilege of Not Impeaching Trump
    Michael Harriot

    If there was one thing about white people I have ever envied, it is their faith.

    White people really believe in the idea of America. They trust that they live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. They have the privilege of using the “Star-Spangled Banner” as a deflector shield, knowing it will envelop them in the loving embrace of freedom and protect them from injustice. It is why they find it inconceivable that anyone would burn a flag or kneel during their beloved lullaby of a national anthem. It must be a wonderful thing to believe in America.

    As a black man, I cannot have faith in America.

    It is not that I am unpatriotic, it is just that I have never borne witness to liberty and justice for all. I have scoured history books for evidence that this country presumes that all men are created equal and, finding none, can only conclude that for me, believing in America is a foolish venture.

    But again, I am black.

    ………………………..

    Democratic leaders contend, without a shred of evidence, that impeachment proceedings could backfire and help Trump become president by dividing the nation with a partisan political process, thereby coalescing Trump’s supporters. Dems reason that voters should have the opportunity to decide Trump’s fate during the 2020 election. They advise their constituents to bide their time and wait for the American people to make their voices heard in the ballot box.

    How excellent it must feel to be exempt from the whims of an addlebrained white supremacist with unchecked power who repeatedly points a rifle loaded with racist policies at your head! It is easy to call for patience when your children are not being ripped from your arms. White people can stand to ruminate on their course of action as the president packs the courts with far-right judges who have displayed anti-black animus both anecdotally and statistically. It does not hurt white people to delay or even deny justice while Trump dismantles affirmative action, reverses rules on discrimination, destroys health care, promotes gentrification, champions police brutality and downplays the rise of white supremacist hate groups.

    Yes, waiting is for white people.

  66. 66
    JPL says:

    @TenguPhule: Since trump plans on fighting the subpoenas, it will delay any proceeding but it will still be in the news. I doubt that trump can stop Mueller or McGhan from testifying since they longer work for the government.

  67. 67
    rikyrah says:

    Welfare for the Wealthy: Trump Administration Tax Loophole Is Government Assistance for Gentrifiers

    Michael Harriot
    Yesterday 9:00am

    Hidden in the new tax code passed by a Republican-led Congress and signed by the Trump administration is a new program that critics say will reward gentrification by giving billions in tax breaks to wealthy venture capitalists, individuals and corporations who invest in low-income communities.

    On Wednesday, April 17, as journalists waited for the release of the much-anticipated Mueller Report, the Treasury Department issued a set of proposed regulations related to a little-known provision in the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (Also known as the Wypipo Welfare Act), the GOP’s overhaul of the tax laws. The new rules included government guidance for Opportunity Zones, described by the IRS as economically-distressed communities “where new investments, under certain conditions, may be eligible for preferential tax treatment.”

    A report from Rice University’s Institute for Urban Research called it “gentrification on steroids.” Some lawmakers worry that it will lead to poor people being pushed out of their homes. But Ben Carson insists it will help blacks become self-sufficient and the Trump administration seems to think it will work even though it has been tried many times and always fails.

    …………………………….

    First, you should know that one can’t just take his or her savings and invest it into an opportunity fund. Nah, homey, you have to already be rich to get this government welfare.

    You see, while anyone can invest in a business in low-income areas, the Trump tax break only applies to capital gains earnings that are re-invested into opportunity zones. That’s right—the only way to get the Trump tax break is to invest money that you’ve already made from investing money, which means, under the Republican gentrification plan, one must already be rich to make money from poor communities…

    And pay zero in taxes!

    Curiously, the Trump regulations don’t require the opportunity zone real estate investors to lease to residents who already live inside the zones. They don’t even require businesses to hire from within the communities from which they are getting huge tax breaks.

    The result of the incentive will probably be communities like Solé Mia, a $4 billion dollar real estate development in a distressed part of North Miami, Fla. where residents worry about rising rents and gentrification. Bloomberg reports that an investment company is already pumping money from opportunity funds into the project, despite the fact that the venture capitalists would have likely gone through with the project anyway. Instead, the tax breaks simply increase their profit and allow them to colonize more of the poor south Florida neighborhood.

  68. 68
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @JPL: How could Dump prevent their testimony even if they were still in government?

    “I’ll fire you if you testify!” ?

  69. 69
    TenguPhule says:

    @joel hanes:

    But let’s say Pelosi calls for articles of impeachment tomorrow.

    Wrong order.

    First you open the impeachment investigation.

    Then you lay out the evidence for each article.

    Then you finally call for the vote in the House. In November 2020.

  70. 70
    JPL says:

    It is said that the McCain family is going to support Biden. Cindi McCain tweeted to say the Biden is a wonderful man, but she doesn’t plan on getting involved in the presidential race. hmmm

  71. 71
    TenguPhule says:

    @joel hanes:

    What is it about first one, then three, then ten House subpoenas that you feel is not on the offensive?

    The fact that Trump, Bar and Munchin have all decided to refuse to comply with them and the only enforcement method the House has right now is to ask the DOJ and the courts to do it for them. Impeachment is supposed to be the next step. And like I said, we can’t give Trump time.

  72. 72
    TenguPhule says:

    @mrmoshpotato:

    How could Dump prevent their testimony even if they were still in government?

    “Who will rid me of this meddlesome ‘blank'”

    Comes to mind. It’s not like he hasn’t done it before.

  73. 73
    Immanentize says:

    I was just re-reading some of the earlier death penalty cases, Furman v. Georgia (1972 — which ended all death sentences in the country at that time) and Gregg v. Georgia (1976 which effectively re-instated the death penalty in America). Both cases highlighted this argument by Justice Stewart (from Gregg):

    [P]unishment is an expression of society’s moral outrage at particularly offensive conduct. This function may be unappealing to many, but it is essential in an ordered society that asks its citizens to rely on legal processes rather than self-help to vindicate their wrongs…. “When people begin to believe that organized society is unwilling or unable to impose upon … offenders the punishment they “deserve,” then there are sown the seeds of anarchy—of self-help, vigilante justice, and lynch law.”

    All the fancy citations and footnotes omitted. This is a real concern.

  74. 74
    piratedan says:

    @rikyrah: i hear him, I want to fight, I want to take this bastard down and all of his cronies and all of the GOP that turned a blind eye to treason in return for power.

    I want them all shackled and living in a tent city in Texas, in the same conditions that they perpetuated on those immigrants.

    Then I want a drone strike on Pooty Poot and the key elements that he used to attack us and leave it a smoking fucking ruin.

    and every day that passes, more outrage is being perpetuated and to be sure, I am unsure if its making me more resolved or less so, all I know is that I am tired of watching Facists hurt people and hurt my country because they are scared of anyone that doesn’t look like them or think like them.

    The thing is, if they take their shot now and miss, will there be other opportunities, say that Congress has no mechanism (they do, but its never ever really been used in our lifetimes) to enforce their will, what’s next?

  75. 75
    NotMax says:

    @Immanentize

    Wait until the DOJ tries to shoehorn “contempt of Trump” into criminal proceedings.

  76. 76
    joel hanes says:

    @TenguPhule:

    the evidence for each article.

    My claim is that:
    – when, in the course of a House committee investigation, lawful subpoenas and testimony are refused, that becomes an article, with irrefutable evidence.
    – when documents are produced or testimony is elicited in the course of House committee investigations, those become evidence for the eventual articles of impeachment.

    The committee investigations _are_ the beginnings of the push for impeachment.

    If Pelosi never allows a formal impeachment effort to start, I’ll eat my words, and make sure to come back around to tell you that you were right and I was wrong.
    As it is, I think that the House _has_ started the investigations that will lead to impeachment, but they’re not calling it an impeachment investigation just yet.

  77. 77
    Immanentize says:

    @NotMax: Isn’t that what Trump suggested with his “kneel before me” language?

  78. 78
    Immanentize says:

    @joel hanes: agree

  79. 79
    guachi says:

    Off topic but…

    I just got back from watching Avengers: Endgame in German. I don’t understand German. It was less of an issue considering the movie is the conclusion of a two-parter and we’ve had 21 other movies with these characters.

    I’m still processing what I saw so I just might have to see it once or twice more.

  80. 80
    joel hanes says:

    @JPL:

    I doubt that trump can stop Mueller or McGhan from testifying

    Or Deutsch Bank

  81. 81
    Chyron HR says:

    I think they’re more afraid of, “Mommy, what is ‘everyone is welcome’?” than they are of the drag show.

  82. 82
    Millard Filmore says:

    @TenguPhule:

    Who’s going to try and collect it [daily fines] from them

    A lawful order seizing funds from their bank accounts.
    A lien on their property.

    There must be other ways as well.

  83. 83
    Chyron HR says:

    @guachi:

    “‘Das Infinity Gems’? What the hell is that?”

  84. 84
    rikyrah says:

    @guachi:

    unlike others, I don’t mind spoilers…

    so, if you wanna drop some :)

    The non-spoiler reviews that I have read so far say that the movie was worth the wait.

  85. 85
    NotMax says:

    @joel hanes

    Yes. There is procedure and process and it is paramount they be strictly adhered to in a matter of such gravity.

    That does not mean non-immediacy is the same as standing still, it means one measured step at a time, with neither hesitation nor reluctance.

  86. 86
    Barbara says:

    It’s when I read stuff like this that I wonder whether there will even be any churches left in 25 years. When expressing outrage at others becomes your main avenue of outreach I would say you have reached the limits of your natural lifespan.

  87. 87
    randy khan says:

    @TenguPhule:

    I think Nancy Pelosi is probably making a mistake here by still insisting on not endorsing impeachment now.

    I think you’re 100% wrong on this. The investigations need to come first, including the process of getting people to testify, however you do it (and contempt of Congress is one of the tools). You use the investigations to build a public case for impeachment before you impeach, so that you have popular support for the decision. It’s one of the lessons of the Republicans in 1998 – they thought they just could rely on the Starr Report, and it hurt them. What the House did in 1973 and 1974 is a much better model.

  88. 88
    khead says:

    I am totally stunned that this response came from the station that used to run Mr. Cartoon when I was growing up.

  89. 89
    JPL says:

    @joel hanes: Deutsche handed over financials to the NY AG today so you are right. There will be hearings.

  90. 90
    joel hanes says:

    @Barbara:

    There are other kinds of churches.
    The Talibangelical ones are so publicly, so visibly awful that they obscure the ones that continue, quietly, to do good.
    And I say that even though I’m a strong atheist, and think religion is a mistake.

  91. 91
    Chyron HR says:

    @TenguPhule:

    So what you’re saying is that we need a purely symbolic vote in the house to confirm that Trump is a very bad boy, after which he will continue being President with no real consequences at all? That’s “the offensive” upon which the feckless Democratic caucus needs to “take it”?

  92. 92
    Barbara says:

    @TenguPhule: I think what you are missing is the probability that Trump’s overreach will just compound his problems and make the rationale for impeachment a lot stronger than it is now.

  93. 93
    Barbara says:

    @joel hanes: I realize there are other kinds of churches but the negative halo effect of the loudest is very real.

  94. 94
    NotMax says:

    @randy khan

    Seconded. Pelosi knows it is substantively (and politically) different for Congressperson X to make a statement endorsing it as either an aim or as policy than for a Speaker to do so. By virtue of her office she is forced to walk a fine line.

  95. 95
    joel hanes says:

    @John Revolta:

    Give it a little more time.

    Thanks.
    That’s why I’m avoiding talking to him.
    If we don’t talk, it can’t come up.

    But I know him well, and I doubt he’s even aware of Trump’s perfidy, except maybe the cheating at golf thing.

  96. 96
    rikyrah says:

    @JPL:

    @joel hanes: Deutsche handed over financials to the NY AG today so you are right. There will be hearings.

    Southern District of New York

    or
    New York Attorney General?

  97. 97
    joel hanes says:

    @Barbara:

    negative halo effect

    Agreed. And the Talibangelicals are losing a large percentage this generation of youth, because the institutionalized bigotry just doesn’t cut it. The data that shows that fewer people call themselves “evangelical”, more people call themselves non-religious, and that atheists may in fact no longer be the least trusted category of American are encouraging.

  98. 98
    Kay says:

    More Americans are breathing air that will make them sick, according to the American Lung Association’s annual State of the Air report.
    The country had been making progress in cleaning up air pollution, but during the Trump administration, it has been backsliding, the report says. Deregulation and climate change are largely to blame.
    President Donald Trump made a pledge in his 2017 State of the Union address to “promote clean air and water,” but his administration has reversed or proposed rollbacks to major air pollution protections, emissions standards and drilling and extraction regulations. He’s also slashed the EPA budget; the current proposal is to cut the budget by a third.

    If Democrats want to get to Trump, they should attack him on this. Not “environmental” – just call it “dirty”. He’s a big, coddled germaphobe and he talks about the country like it’s one of his shitty resorts. Present it like a depreciating property- the “dirty” air he’s creating lowers value. I would go so far as to say he’s creating a “shithole country”, although a surrogate might have to say that- a senator probably can’t. His head would explode. It’s true, too. Filthy air and water do make a country less desirable.

  99. 99
    Immanentize says:

    @joel hanes:

    except maybe the cheating at golf thing.

    It’s funny you say this — I trot out his cheating at golf whenever I am around dudes — they hate it! And they like Reilly’s quote that goes with it — “playing golf is like bicycle pants, they both reveal a lot about a man.” I think cheating at golf may lose him as many of his supporters as all the real shit he does that hurts people.

  100. 100
    Kay says:

    @Barbara:

    I just think she’s a good strategist. If I don’t doubt her motives, and I don’t, in this instance, then it’s a matter of whether I doubt her skill, and I just don’t. There’s no one on the D side who is better. I suppose there could be a better person to run this, but not of the people we have.

  101. 101
    les says:

    so–was the lead off of the final paragraph in the WSAZ statement an intended pun.

    And so–since folks don’t seem to get it–stating that “We are opening hearings on the issue of whether there are grounds for impeachment” does not, actually, mean the same as “we’re sending articles of impeachment to the Senate tomorrow.” You’re welcome.

  102. 102
    TenguPhule says:

    @Chyron HR: I’m saying that the House needs to formally start impeachment proceedings, which among other things would give the investigators more legal tools. And then review all of the evidence, not only from the Mueller report, but all of the other 1001 scandals and lawless behavior over the last 2 years so that the public gets a refresher course into just how many of them there are. Its been non-stop since before day 1 and Trump has reaped the benefits of burying us in sheer quantities of bullshit for too long.

    The best way to move public opinion is to start early and often.

    Trump is an idiot and yet even he knows that.

  103. 103
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Harbison: For the youngest, I would just say that cancer is a type of sickness. I would allay any fears by stressing that it is not contagious, that you don’t get it from people coughing or sneezing on you — most of the sicknesses kids know about get “caught.”

    I would add that mostly older people get cancer and that doctors have medicine for it. And all of that is true!

    But there is no escaping that eventually you have to tell your kid about the sadder side of life, and yes, no one enjoys doing that.

  104. 104
    catclub says:

    @rikyrah: I am pretty sure that Cory Booker was strongly in favor of this program. So were billionaires.

  105. 105
    KSinMA says:

    @rikyrah: Thank you!

  106. 106
    Martin says:

    @rikyrah: I wanted to follow up to something I said yesterday regarding boomers that were tired of being sterotyped, and maybe this is a good place to do it.

    The problem with pushing against boomers is that focusing on the year one was born is a deliberate attempt to miss the point. The problem isn’t the people born after the war, the problem is who was allowed to be in charge during that time. So when we speak of boomers, we should really acknowledge we’re talking about white men, because as far as any decision making authority was concerned, that’s all there was. MLK had to take his authority at the risk of arrest and eventually death. J Edgar Hoover had it handed to him with a handsome salary and the knowledge everyone would look the other way when he fucked up. And even if you weren’t actively part of that social exercise to give all responsibility to white men (who fucked it all up pretty badly) you were at least socially trained to accept that as the right way to do things. But that has changed slowly with each successive generation. We’re hardly at a point where its out of our system, but it’s way better among the youngest voting generation.

    When we look at the Dem nominees, it’s pretty apparent that we’re not really seeing policy preferences in the polling. It’s not really about Bernie’s ideas vs Biden’s ideas – it’s a wide acceptance – even by the people here, including people of color and women, that they way to beat a white man is with another white man. It’s an acceptance that it’s the right way to do things (even if we don’t want it to be). So even today, even the people on the right side of this argument, all to some degree believe that.

    Now, I’m 100% behind impeachment. I don’t necessarily believe he’ll be removed from office, but it needs to happen. People need to be held accountable. Brock Turner was tried and given an unjust sentence. And people responded to that unjust sentence. That response was worthwhile even if justice wasn’t done. That surely contributed in some way to the energy behind the Women’s March 6 months or so later. It would have been VASTLY worse if prosecutors saw who the judge was and decided ‘why bother?’. So this must happen, and it should happen with all the urgency that a president actively breaking the law should demand. And I say that completely independently of who will or won’t be harmed should Trump be re-elected.

    But a very similar decision needs to be made for 2020. I have been 100% behind Kamala Harris for years, and was hoping she would run. And I will be 100% behind her here. Can she beat Trump, though? In a way, I don’t care. That fight is worth having. Having her as a major party nominee is worth it. Maybe it doesn’t pay off in 2020. Maybe it doesn’t pay off until 2028, but it’s worth it to me. I want to see the white patriarchy burned down as quickly as possible and that’s part of the path to doing so. But I can afford to focus on that goal. I know others want the same goal, but they may not be able to afford 4 more years of Trump to risk getting there. Biden may be a more pragmatic solution, and we’ll fight for Harris in 2024 or whenever.

    I’m very conflicted by these things. Do we take a MLK path or a Malcom X one? I can afford the long arc – I’m a 50 year old white male with money.

  107. 107
    TenguPhule says:

    @NotMax: Its a double edged sword though. By not endorsing the view that all of what’s already known is sufficient to start on impeachment, she’s de facto legitimizing the Rightwing talking points about this all only being politics as usual. And I am very worried this is going to come back and bite us later, just as it did when Bush and Cheney got off scott free after all the shit they pulled.

  108. 108
    rikyrah says:

    New Interior secretary, others subject of ethics investigations
    Rachel Maddow talks about the newly confirmed and already embattled Secretary of the Interior Department, David Bernhardt. He is under investigation by the department’s Inspector General, along with six others at the department.

  109. 109
    TenguPhule says:

    You’ll notice that most of these fights are dependent on how courts weigh in on the matter. Kicking the fights to the court has the benefit for Trump of eating up time, but it also means potentially seeing issues resolved at the highest court in the land, now controlled by a conservative majority.

    “Congress can and should win eventually in the lower court,” Griffin said at one point, “but that’s not the end of the story. Some of this could go all the way up to the Supreme Court. It can move faster than ordinary cases, but it is not going to move with lightning speed.”

    “And,” she added, “the clock favors one side of the equation here.”

    That is, Trump’s.

    How the Trump-Congress subpoena fight is likely to play out

  110. 110
    Barbara says:

    @Martin: I agree that many people are seeing things the way you do, the fear that we should make sure to have every edge we possibly can, and if that means another white guy, oh well, it’s better than four more years of Trump. But we don’t actually know whether Biden or Sanders would stand a better chance against Trump than Harris or Warren do. To me, that militates in favor of doing what we think is right in whatever time frame we view as important — short or medium or long term — and then, if what we favor doesn’t win the day, not making the better the enemy of the best, and accepting that other people have good faith disagreements that are not fatal to the spirit of unity.

    ETA: The issue with the boomers is that I really think it’s hard for them to have grown up seeing themselves as a transformative, change oriented generation and then seeing that voting patterns driven by boomers have given us some of the most incompetent, most unethical presidents in American history. The need for generational validation is real for some people. Full disclosure, I am a late boomer.

  111. 111
    BCHS Class of 1980 says:

    @Harbison: Yep. I grew up on the eastern edge of the viewing area in the ‘70s (Mr. Cartoon FTW!). In fact I refer to the WSAZ viewing area as the Heart of Trump Darkness.

  112. 112
    JPL says:

    @rikyrah: CNN reported it and I didn’t quite catch it. I think the Southern District but google hasn’t helped me clarify it.

  113. 113
    Kay says:

    @TenguPhule:

    But Democrats won in 2006 and 2008 and again in 2012. So maybe from Pelosi’s standpoint it didn’t “come back to bite her”. It was in fact a good strategic decision.

  114. 114
    JPL says:

    @Immanentize: You surely jest. His friends are getting huge tax cuts, and could care little about anything else.

  115. 115
    rikyrah says:

    @Martin:

    But a very similar decision needs to be made for 2020. I have been 100% behind Kamala Harris for years, and was hoping she would run. And I will be 100% behind her here. Can she beat Trump, though? In a way, I don’t care. That fight is worth having. Having her as a major party nominee is worth it. Maybe it doesn’t pay off in 2020. Maybe it doesn’t pay off until 2028, but it’s worth it to me. I want to see the white patriarchy burned down as quickly as possible and that’s part of the path to doing so. But I can afford to focus on that goal. I know others want the same goal, but they may not be able to afford 4 more years of Trump to risk getting there. Biden may be a more pragmatic solution, and we’ll fight for Harris in 2024 or whenever.

    I’m very conflicted by these things. Do we take a MLK path or a Malcom X one? I can afford the long arc – I’m a 50 year old white male with money.

    I remember it was right before the Iowa Caucus 2008, and I was writing a piece on why I supported Barack Obama for President. One of the lines I wrote was:

    I don’t know if America is ready for a Black man to be President, but, I’m ready for the question to be asked and answered.

    I honestly will say, upon reflection, that I totally underestimated the misogyny in 2016. I really did.
    But, then, I still come back to that Hillary got 3 million more votes.
    That the margins in those questionable states —–OUR voters were denied the franchise. If OUR voters had been able to exercise the franchise- those numbers were 2-3 times the margin of Dolt45’s ‘ victory’ in those states.
    You can call me paranoid. You can call me conspiratorial. I don’t care. I believe Hillary won those states. I believe vote totals were changed, and could be changed because of the voter suppression excuse. I will forever believe that the practice run for 2016 was the Kansas state races the previous year. I will always believe that.

    I want the argument again. I don’t believe Democrats going safe will help us this time. We need to fight to the finish.
    I don’t even consider Kamala a ‘ Martin vs. Malcolm’ choice.
    I believe that my desire to see an all POC ticket…THAT is the Martin vs. Malcolm choice.

  116. 116
    rikyrah says:

    @JPL:

    I went to the Google and it was indeed NYAG Tish James’ office.

    You brought me the best news of the day :) :)

  117. 117
    JPL says:

    @rikyrah: Maybe that’s why he has been so cranky. I know that is his nature, but he does appear to be slipping rather quickly.

  118. 118
    Mnemosyne says:

    @waspuppet:

    They also usually dance and sing.

    And, really, parents have trouble explaining “PG-13”? Do they just not let their kids watch movies?

  119. 119

    @joel hanes: @Immanentize: It’s kinda like the leopard is eating their face. It brings it home for these guys.

  120. 120
    Martin says:

    @rikyrah: Yeah, I’m of the view that if we pick Biden over Harris, you lose turnout to a larger degree than you gain votes by independents. Women, particularly women of color will decide the next election and we ignore that at our peril. So I think a Harris or an Abrams is our safe pick, but I also know that I’m very much an outlier for seeing it that way.

  121. 121
    tobie says:

    I just got a call from Inslee’s campaign. Apparently they haven’t met the 65,000 donor threshold to qualify for the first debate. If you have a few bucks available, think about throwing some in. Inslee’s not my first choice, but I appreciate the depth of his knowledge of climate change and his success as a Governor. Washington state just got a public option passed. That’s a big deal.

  122. 122
    Immanentize says:

    @JPL:
    I’m talking about relatively young lawyers who lean Republican who are not (yet) millionaires but they are swimming in crippling debt right now They play golf.

  123. 123
    Martin says:

    @waspuppet: I think a lot more people won’t even vary the answer much based on the kids age as you might think. I’d have no problem explaining it to a first grader. Both of my kids had transgender classmates in elementary school. We’re way past the point that questions of sexuality or gender identity should be moderated to kids. Anything they might encounter needs to be open for discussion. It doesn’t make them uncomfortable, it only makes us uncomfortable.

  124. 124
    Immanentize says:

    @John Revolta: It really does. And that breed really doesn’t understand stuff unless it’s familiar — or personal.

  125. 125
    Martin says:

    @Immanentize: Hate to point it out but if they are relatively young lawyers, millionaire may not be in their future. They missed that window by a decade at least.

  126. 126
    tobie says:

    @Barbara:

    Trump’s overreach will…make the rationale for impeachment a lot stronger than it is now.

    Thanks! I couldn’t have said that better.

  127. 127
    Martin says:

    @Immanentize:

    I think cheating at golf may lose him as many of his supporters as all the real shit he does that hurts people.

    That speaks volumes about how well insulated many people are from the realities of life in this country.

  128. 128
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Mnemosyne: Many younger children would probably wonder why a performance of people or things being pulled across the floor (in other words, “dragged”) would be something anyone would want to watch.

    That fundamentalists don’t have enough imagination or empathy with which to see things from a child’s viewpoint — well, it’s what you expect.

  129. 129
    Immanentize says:

    @Martin: compliance jobs that do not require a JD start at 80k. It’s not hard to become a millionaire with that kind of start. Ask Bernie

  130. 130
    Wayne Marks says:

    @joel hanes: I agree with everything you wrote. I’d love to see him out of office, yesterday, but if we mess this up by moving too quickly he may well be with us for longer.

  131. 131
    rikyrah says:

    @tobie:

    You should leave a link to Inslee’s website.

  132. 132
    trollhattan says:

    The Onion strikes again.

    Stephen Miller Enraged After Discovering Cantaloupe He’s Fucking From Mexico

  133. 133
    Ohio Mom says:

    @tobie:

    On Inslee I will add that he is also great on disability issues — though that is nowhere as critical as climate change.

    I’m afraid it says something about us Democrats that as the one hopeful who has declared he is THE climate change candidate, Inslee is not getting enough love. Forgiven college loans (which I am all for) aren’t going to mean much if the planet gets much hotter — as much as I adore Warren.

    Meanwhile, I continue to worry that Harris and Warren — both fabulous candidates — and going to split the vote and allow one of the B candidates to surge ahead. Required disclosure, While I am still making up my mind, yes I would vote for anyone whose last name starts with B, even though none of them are high on my list.

  134. 134
    Brachiator says:

    @Martin:

    When we look at the Dem nominees, it’s pretty apparent that we’re not really seeing policy preferences in the polling. It’s not really about Bernie’s ideas vs Biden’s ideas – it’s a wide acceptance – even by the people here, including people of color and women, that they way to beat a white man is with another white man. It’s an acceptance that it’s the right way to do things (even if we don’t want it to be). So even today, even the people on the right side of this argument, all to some degree believe that.

    Bullshit.

  135. 135
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @Martin:

    That speaks volumes about how well insulated many people are from the realities of life in this country.

    Maybe, but it also defines Trump’s general awfulness in terms they can understand. One can talk oneself into that Trump’s immigrant bashing is just badly done policy, but cheating at a game that’s more about socializing really just vile and says Trump has respect for no other human.

  136. 136
    tobie says:

    @rikyrah: Good advice. Thank you.

    Folks, here’s a link to Jay Inslee’s website. Apparently his campaign has not hit the 65,000 donor threshold to participate in the first debate. If you have a few spare bucks, please think about throwing them in. He’s not my first choice but no candidate is better than him in talking about climate change, how to address it and how addressing it can be a springboard for dealing with education, the economy, healthcare, etc.

  137. 137
    JR says:

    @Immanentize: Citizens, without realizing it the Assembly has been lead far from the true question. There is no trial to be conducted here. Louis is not accused and you are not judges. You are, as you can only be, the nation’s statesmen and representatives. No verdict is required, either for or against a man. Rather, a step aimed at the public safety needs to be taken, an act of salvation for the nation.

  138. 138
    tobie says:

    @Ohio Mom: I didn’t know Inslee was good on disabilities. I’ll look into that. Thanks for the tip. We do have too many good candidates. That said, I think it would be unfair if someone with congressional and gubernatorial experience like Inslee didn’t make the debate stage while Gabbard and Yang did.

  139. 139
    Brachiator says:

    Wow, that’s a beautiful response.

    Yep. (Coming late to the thread)

  140. 140
    TenguPhule says:

    @Kay:

    But Democrats won in 2006 and 2008 and again in 2012. So maybe from Pelosi’s standpoint it didn’t “come back to bite her”. It was in fact a good strategic decision.

    We had the benefit of Bush fuckups coming home to roost from 2006-2008. And Pelosi and Reid ran on holding those fuckers to account. When they didn’t, we lost the Senate in 2010 and then the House in 2012.

    Democrats ran on oversight in 2018. We risk losing voter support in 2020 if its perceived it was just another gimmick to attract voters.

  141. 141
    khead says:

    @BCHS Class of 1980:

    I was gonna guess “Big Creek High School” but that’s the southern edge of WSAZ.

  142. 142
    Martin says:

    @joel hanes: Exactly. When they started impeachment hearings against Nixon, they didn’t have a clue what the charges would be. The tapes weren’t known. They knew he abused his office, but they were navigating to articles the entire way through the hearings.

    Hearings started Oct 30, 1973. The Judiciary was approved to open formal impeachment hearings in Feb 1974. The indictments against Haldeman and others didn’t come down until March 1974 – so even that wasn’t formally known until after the hearing started. Articles of impeachment were voted on in July 1974, a few days after USSC ruled that Nixon had to turn over the tapes. Nixon resigned a week and a half after articles were voted on.

    My comparison, we’re past indictments and Mueller has provided a roadmap for impeachment, even referencing specific documents held by the FBI. This is a much easier proposition than Nixons impeachment.

  143. 143
    CaseyL says:

    @tobie: Damn, and he’s my Governor. I kicked in a few bucks.

  144. 144
    rikyrah says:

    Police officers stand by report that Beto tried to flee scene of drunken crash

    Presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke has denied fleeing the scene of a crash that caused him to be arrested for drunk driving in 1998, but the El Paso officer who arrested him told the Texas Tribune that he stands by his report of the night.

    What they’re saying: An unnamed female witness told officers that O’Rourke’s car “attempted to leave the scene” after crashing into a truck. The police officer who arrested O’Rourke doesn’t remember the specifics of the night, but said: “I believe we have contradicting stories here. I stand by my report.”

    This is gonna sound simple…but, if it was a crash…wouldn’t they have put fleeing from the scene of a crime in the charges against him? Which means that it would be in an actual police report somewhere….in writing.

    Oh yeah, sorry, I was thinking like a Black person…cause I know they never forget a charge that they can put on us.

    I don’t see how him fleeing, when the cop wasn’t professional enough to put it in the charges against him is supposed to hurt Beto all these years later. It wasn’t up to Beto to put the charges upon himself. It was up to the cop, and if he didn’t do it then…why am I supposed to care now?

  145. 145

    @TenguPhule: We lost the House in 2010, we lost the Senate in 2014. We lost the House because everything wasn’t fixed RIGHT NOW and Republicans were able to demagogue Obamacare and the stimulus.

  146. 146
    Immanentize says:

    I read an interesting article about Sanders and his polling. Short version — it sucks for a person with Almost universal name recognition.

  147. 147

    @Martin: You have to remember that we had the Senate Watergate hearings thoughout the summer of 1973. They were Must See TV.

  148. 148
    Immanentize says:

    @rikyrah:

    , if it was a crash…wouldn’t they have put fleeing from the scene of a crime in the charges against him?

    Absofuckinlutely. Unless for some reason, the truck owner didn’t want any “trouble” and knew the cops.

    Wondering/not wondering what race the cop is.

  149. 149
    NotMax says:

    @Martin

    Which leads to the point that, although today’s public perception may be otherwise, what is in Mueller’s report is limited to the defined boundaries of his investigative authority and is far from the entirety of evidence.

    The wheels of justice grind slow but grind exceedingly fine, and all that saying represents.

  150. 150

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Martin was too young, he was 4 years old

  151. 151
    Immanentize says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA:

    You have to remember that we had the Senate Watergate hearings thoughout the summer of 1973.

    Trump isn’t going to allow that mistake to happen again.

  152. 152

    @Immanentize: You mean The Turtle won’t allow that mistake to happen again.

  153. 153
    Barbara says:

    @Immanentize: Been thinking that for some time now. It feels like a ceiling.

  154. 154
    Sab says:

    @TenguPhule: We lost in 2010 because the Obamacare website was a mess. Katherine Sibellius ( a former insurance commissioner before she was governor of Kansas) focused on the insurance product, and outsourced the website planning.

    Having been in the awful private insurance market befor Obamacare, I have nothing but admiration for her and what she accomplished. The product is really pretty good. It’s real insurance. The defects aren’t her fault, except for the horrible website. The price is on Congress and local insurance commissioners in the states.

    The insurance you get through the exchange is real insurance. You don’t pay in for 10 years to discover that what you paid for is a joke.

    But the website sucked that first year.

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    Ohio Mom says:

    @tobie: One of Inslee’s iniatives as governor has been to increase employment among the state’s disabled. They’ve made some real progress.

    Employment—finding and keeping a job — might be the biggest issue for adults with disability. If you have to depend solely on SSI, you will be extremely poor (you’ll be living on less than $9,000 a year, plus food stamps and Medicaid, with all their shortcomings). Additionally, sitting around at home all day in isolation is not a good quality life for anyone.

    Obviously, most disabled individuals have limitations that impact what kind of work they can do successfully, and that’s even before you take into account all the ableism that exits, especially in the workplace.

    Widespread employment isn’t going to happen without a lot of goverment support, and that is what Inslee spearheaded.

  156. 156
    NotMax says:

    @BillinGlendaleCA

    Also a time when there were not 100+ channels to choose from and the handful there were took with sobriety their stations’ license provision to operate in “the public interest, convenience and necessity.”

  157. 157

    @Sab: The Obamacare website fuckup was in 2013, don’t think that had any effect on 2010.

  158. 158
    VeniceRiley says:

    If you’re on twitter, go get some cheer from the #SheThePeople candidate forum in Houston today. Apparently, Harris did great, Bernie got booed. Tulsi got punked, but they liked Castro too. And Warren SLAYED! There were more. I hope they upload the whole thing to youtube or something. Among these women of color, it looks like Warren or Harris for the hearts and minds.

  159. 159
    Shana says:

    @Immanentize: Here’s a P.G. Wodehouse quote for you: “The only way of really finding out a man’s true character is to play golf with him. In no other walk of life does the cloven hoof so quickly display itself.”

  160. 160
    NotMax says:

    @NotMax

    Addendum.

    Nowadays can all too easily foresee the majority of channels and networks saying “It’s all on C-SPAN, why should we carry it?”

  161. 161
    Ohio Mom says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Plus there are so many media outlets now. We are a long way from being limited to just three or four TV channels for our screentime fix. If there are Watergate-type hearings, they will not garner the same level of riveted eyeballs.

    ETA: What NotMax, who types faster than I do, said.

    Still, I believe there will be hearings and eventually, impeachment. What the Senate will do, I will not predict but I will hold onto the memory of the repeal of the ACA failing. It’s true that McCain’s was the divisive vote but a couple of R’s did vote No on the preceding votes.

  162. 162
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @tobie: How is it possible that Inslee has not reached the 65,000 donor threshold but the awful mess that is Tulsi Gabbard has?

  163. 163
    trollhattan says:

    @Felanius Kootea:
    When did each announce?

  164. 164
    Felanius Kootea says:

    @trollhattan: Good question. Looks like January 11, 2019 for Gabbard and March 1 for Inslee, so she had a two month head start. I guess that answers my question.

  165. 165
    Martin says:

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: I’m not forgetting that. Mostly just pointing out that articles of impeachment weren’t voted on until 10 days before Nixon resigned. Those aren’t the start of the process, they’re basically the end of it – at least in the House.

    By comparison I would say the Mueller investigation has served the same role. It’s provided the contours of the investigation, it’s indicted people, we have guilty pleas. That’s actually a bit further along than they were in 1973.

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  167. 167
    Martin says:

    @VeniceRiley: Not surprised. Bernie isn’t sufficiently self-aware to do well in that setting. Beto wouldn’t win the room, but he wouldn’t get booed either.

  168. 168
    sgrAstar says:

    @JR: oooh, I love it when you quote Robespierre….not really. Very scary. I hope we don’t get anywhere near that, but I think we all can sense the rising emotional tides that are swirling around us. Living in the Red West I come into contact with some pretty frightening people. Because of that, I agree that Pelosi’s steady, undramatic approach is the way to go. Sure, steady, relentless…it’s already destabilizing and exposing trump bigtime. Win.

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