Hillary Clinton: It’s the National Security Threat, Stupid

Clinton published a must-read op-ed in Le Post this afternoon. Here are a couple of excerpts:

Our election was corrupted, our democracy assaulted, our sovereignty and security violated. This is the definitive conclusion of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s report. It documents a serious crime against the American people.

The debate about how to respond to Russia’s “sweeping and systemic” attack — and how to hold President Trump accountable for obstructing the investigation and possibly breaking the law — has been reduced to a false choice: immediate impeachment or nothing. History suggests there’s a better way to think about the choices ahead.

Obviously, this is personal for me, and some may say that I’m not the right messenger. But my perspective is not just that of a former candidate and target of the Russian plot. I am also a former senator and secretary of state who served during much of Vladi­mir Putin’s ascent, sat across the table from him and knows firsthand that he seeks to weaken our country.

Clinton urges Congress to hold hearings on the Mueller report findings, not jump straight into holding a vote on impeachment, citing the Watergate inquiry as a model. She notes that during Watergate, a Senate select committee held hearings that added to the facts of the case before an impeachment inquiry began and suggests that a committee could do something similar now by calling Mueller and McGahn to testify. Clinton doesn’t spell this out, exactly, but this would all have to be on the House side since the Republican-controlled Senate has demonstrated that it will do nothing.

Clinton calls out Trump in deservedly savage terms:

We have to get this right. The Mueller report isn’t just a reckoning about our recent history; it’s a warning about the future. Unless checked, the Russians will interfere again in 2020, and possibly other adversaries, such as China or North Korea, will as well. This is an urgent threat. Nobody but Americans should be able to decide America’s future. And, unless he’s held accountable, the president may show even more disregard for the laws of the land and the obligations of his office. He will likely redouble his efforts to advance Putin’s agenda, including rolling back sanctions, weakening NATO and undermining the European Union.

Clinton emphasizes a key point that Trump and the Republicans are determined to ignore: the Mueller report isn’t only or even primarily about Trump. It’s about an attack on our democracy by a hostile foreign power, and the report establishes that the attack happened unequivocally. That requires action. By making it solely about Trump and crowing about his supposed “exoneration,” Trump and the Republicans are derelict in their duty to protect the country.

Clinton is right, of course. But given that just today Trump signaled refusal to cooperate with any oversight at all because NO COLLUSION HOAX WITCH HUNT I WON, with the full support of his Republican toadies in Congress, impeachment might truly be the only way forward. Greg Sargent explains, outlining how stonewalling on requests for tax returns, urging former and current administration officials to disregard subpoenas and requests for committee appearances, etc., might force Democrats to use an impeachment inquiry to get anywhere at all:

Trump, in a new interview with The Post, just made it overwhelmingly clear that he will henceforth treat the House and its reasonable oversight efforts as fundamentally illegitimate.

“There is no reason to go any further, and especially in Congress where it’s very partisan — obviously very partisan,” Trump said, referring to the latest round of oversight requests House Democrats have made…

Perhaps Trump views an impeachment inquiry as a less bad outcome than releasing his tax returns. Or perhaps he hopes to run out the clock, gambling that Democrats won’t have the guts to pull the trigger.

If so, that creates a torturous dilemma. Democrats themselves say the full truth must be pursued, for the sake of the country. But if Trump blocks them from doing that, it would seem to force their hand and require an impeachment inquiry.

Clinton’s op-ed is a timely reminder that the stakes are much higher than the orange fart cloud’s presidency. Perhaps the House Democrats’ first move should be to get Mueller’s testimony about the true purpose of the report and underscore the national security implications, then proceed from there within that framing, explicitly pursuing impeachment if that’s the only way to get at the facts.

The op-ed also brushes back the notion voiced by some Democrats that we should close the book on the Mueller report and focus on removing Trump via the ballot box in 2020. What ballot box, if Putin or someone else decides to diddle our election again? Anyone who urges Democrats to move on has lost the plot — it’s not only about Trump, though holding a lawless president accountable is a Congressional duty; it’s the national security threat, stupid.






146 replies
  1. 1
    Harbison says:

    So, maybe, Trump is worth impeaching?

    Maybe.

  2. 2
    debbie says:

    Glad she’s speaking out. Trump’s head will explode when he sees the op-ed. If only she had called him “Donald”!

  3. 3
    NotMax says:

    Unfamiliar with it but presume his is a ‘safe’ district. Even so, kudos is due Rep. Clyburn of SC (!) for his refreshing bluntness.

    “People are exasperated over this president. People wonder how this country allowed such an idiot to be elected president.” Source

    There are other parts in the article about him with which I could take issue but wanted to point out the quote.

  4. 4
    debbie says:

    @debbie:

    Also

    The op-ed also brushes back the notion voiced by some Democrats that we should close the book on the Mueller report and focus on removing Trump via the ballot box in 2020.

    It is not a binary choice. Well-held hearings take time. By the time the investigations are completed, we’ll be well into campaign season. Pushing impeachment at that time will give Trump an issue to bash Democrats with. Better to censure him or something similar. Get his crimes out in the open and let people see for themselves what kind of presidency we are suffering through.

  5. 5
    debbie says:

    @NotMax:

    That is a great quote!

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    I’m with her.

  7. 7
    Sab says:

    Maybe my spouse will see this and we can quit skreeching about when and how to impeach. There aren’t many people with more experience than she has on impeachment.

  8. 8
    chopper says:

    as i had posted before, this is a big reason why dumb donald wanted to bury the report so badly. ignoring all the stuff about his crimes, it lays out in excruciating detail exactly how russia got him installed in the oval office. this alone should be the impetus for years of congressional investigations.

  9. 9

    To my mind, there is little difference between holding hearings on the issues that could lead to impeachment and bringing impeachment. What is not acceptable to me is waiting for the election. The hearings will pave the way for the election.

  10. 10
    Mary G says:

    #StillWithHer

  11. 11
  12. 12
    Martin says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: I do not understand why there isn’t more urgency by Dems. This is an active, ongoing threat and Mueller has pointed to where the evidence is. Act. Now.

  13. 13
    trollhattan says:

    “Sore loser, plus what does she know, she’s just a girl!”

    –Trump-approved Tweet forwarded to each Republican officeholder for distribution.

  14. 14

    If he resists all subpoenas for documents and people for the hearings, then impeachment will become necessary.

  15. 15
    Lapassionara says:

    We need someone to take action to protect our elections, and we need it yesterday!

  16. 16

    @Martin: What I want to see is action, and there is quite a bit of it on the hearings now scheduled.

    I suspect that there is a wide range of opinions among the House Democrats, ranging from impeach now to “let’s just pretend nothing is happening.” Pelosi has to bring the laggards along, and too strong a stand will scare them. Too much from those who have made clear their preference for impeachment, like AOC, will tend to split the party.

    I know we all want Trump out NOW, but it’s going to take some time. During that time, Trump will provide more and more reasons for impeachment.

  17. 17

    @Lapassionara: We are going to have to do some of that. Call your state Secretary of State and find out what is planned for balloting in November 2020. The best is optically-scanned paper ballots. If it’s anything else, start pestering your state legislature.

    There are other issues, like internet security, that are harder for us to get at. Maybe our computer folk will have some ideas.

  18. 18

    @Mary G: This.

    One thing she didn’t bring up is the likelihood that this criminal administration* is opposing attempts to secure our future elections because they know the foreign intrusion is the only reason they “won”, and are counting on it again. Not that I’m cynical or anything.

  19. 19
    germy says:

    What I see in my mentions if I say anything positive about Kamala Harris pic.twitter.com/14JrRyfqAs— unimpressed.➒ (@dilemmv) April 22, 2019

  20. 20
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Clinton’s recommendation is in line with Pelosi’s recent statement on impeachment:

    “We all firmly agree that we should proceed down a path of finding the truth. It is also important to know that the facts regarding holding the President accountable can be gained outside of impeachment hearings.”

    To Sargent’s point, Trump may ultimately get House Democrats on the impeachment train regardless by refusing to allow any oversight at all except through an impeachment inquiry. I don’t think it’s necessarily strategic on Trump’s part; it’s just his nature. But I think it’s really important to frame hearings and inquiries as national security issues, as Clinton does.

  21. 21
    ruemara says:

    @Martin: There’s 10 investigations going on now. The House is currently scheduled to be in their districts. There was never going to be movement like everyone is caterwauling about because that is simply 1. not how it works in real life, just movies; 2. they’re not all in DC at this time and even then, see 1.

  22. 22
    piratedan says:

    the part that I have a hard time understanding is…

    If the GRU can hack our elections and gain access into the guts of American Infrastructure, what makes the GOP think that their bank accounts will be left untouched when they get around to wrecking the rest of system?

  23. 23
    germy says:

    Trump campaign won’t commit to staying away from hacked material

    The campaign’s refusal to rule out using hacked information is a contrast to a Democratic presidential field who have promised not to.

    The White House did not immediately respond to questions about future use of such material, but when asked about denouncing future Russian interference, spokesman Hogan Gidley pointed to the president’s past statements. Trump has not pledged to stay away from using any kind of hacked or stolen data in the coming cycle.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/trump-campaign-won-t-commit-staying-away-hacked-material-n998156

  24. 24

    @Betty Cracker:

    But I think it’s really important to frame hearings and inquiries as national security issues, as Clinton does.

    That’s a really good point. We can start with the necessity to protect our voting process. More will turn up in hearings.

  25. 25
    Lapassionara says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: Thanks. I actually vote in a precinct with optically scanned ballots, but people can opt for the computer ballot, so maybe raising the issue could help.

  26. 26
    DCrefugee says:

    Some people need to think about what comes after formal impeachment “right now”, whether it makes it to the Senate or not. If House Dems blow their cork by the fall, the RW noise machine will have a year to rebound. And let’s say Agent Orange is driven from office and Pence takes over, maybe next summer. As much as a schmuck as he is, he’s an order of magnitude more politically competent than AO. And there *will* be a sympathy vote in Pence’s favor, as he sets about to “reunite the country.”

    The Rethugs have rigged the game so often and for so long, it’s time the Dems did them one better by holding hearing after hearing after hearing, live on da tube. The effort needs to build and peak around Halloween 2020.

    Or we may not get the chance again in my lifetime. This is for all the marbles, folks…

  27. 27

    @piratedan: Or the fact that the intelligence community report said that Republican emails were hacked along with the Democratic emails that were released. We still haven’t seen the Republican emails.

  28. 28

    @DCrefugee: I mostly agree, but will observe that Gerald Ford didn’t get much of a sympathy vote.

  29. 29
    Adam L Silverman says:

    @oatler.: They don’t have much choice. The NY AG can shut the entire bank down, completely, in between sips of coffee if she can show cause. And given the massive amounts of money laundering and fraud they’ve been involved in over the years, she’s got a lot of cause she can show.

  30. 30
    trollhattan says:

    Know what? To hell with these people.

    Hundreds of vaccine-skeptical families crammed into the Capitol on Wednesday afternoon where they battled a bill that would give the state authority over whether children receive medical exemptions from mandatory vaccines. The massive crowd opposed Senate Bill 276, authored by state Sen. Richard Pan, D-Sacramento, at the measure’s hearing in the Senate Committee on Health.

    The proposal would restrict how doctors administer medical exemptions in California, taking the authority out of the hands of doctors and placing it with officials at the Department of Public Health. Anti-vaccine protesters called the bill “draconian” as they told personal stories about children who suffered illnesses after receiving vaccines. One accused lawmakers of being “brainwashed.”

    “We believe the relationship between a patient and their doctor is sacred,” said Nicole Shorrock, a pediatrician who testified against the bill. “Patients have a right to have their medical treatment determined by their doctor, not a governmental appointee. This bill will essentially destroy the sanctity of a doctor-patient relationship.”

    She and other opponents were countered by dozens of doctors wearing white coats who urged the committee to pass the bill to prevent outbreaks of debilitating and preventable illnesses.

    Oh, by the way, assholes.

    Two Sacramento County children from the same family were diagnosed with measles Tuesday – the first confirmed cases in the county in seven years, according to the Sacramento County Public Health Department.

    The children were not vaccinated and are at home recovering, according to county spokeswoman Brenda Bongiorno. Anyone potentially exposed to the deadly virus was notified, Bongiorno said, though she could not specify how many were notified. The county learned of the suspected measles cases Friday, and concluded after “a full investigation was done” that there was minimal exposure to the public, Bongiorno said.

  31. 31

    @Cheryl Rofer: The Nixon pardon probably cost him re-election.

  32. 32
    geg6 says:

    Yep, she’s right. As she has been all along. I love her. She and, even more so, we were robbed. I’ll never get over it. Never.

  33. 33
    Baud says:

    @geg6: Same here.

  34. 34
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Perhaps Trump views an impeachment inquiry as a less bad outcome than releasing his tax returns. Or perhaps he hopes to run out the clock, gambling that Democrats won’t have the guts to pull the trigger.

    They were elected to pull the trigger so I hope they get to it. This administration is not normal and shouldn’t be treated as such. Go hard and stop being polite. I keep hearing people say that Republicans were damaged when they impeached President Clinton. Really? Didn’t they turn around and win the presidency in 2000? Democrats should consider the fact that Republicans have paid almost no price for shutting down the government multiple times, blocking Garland’s nomination, obstructing President Obama, etc. Let’s stop pretending that the American people will punish Republicans for bad behavior. They won’t.

  35. 35
    plato says:

    Deutsche Bank has reportedly begun the process of providing financial records to New York state's attorney general in response to a subpoena for documents related to loans made to Trump and his business. https://t.co/5fRswhsOUC— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) April 24, 2019

    Fingers crossed.

  36. 36
    plato says:

    NYT dives deep into the 3 times Trump tried to pressure Sessions into ordering the prosecution of Hillary Clinton. Trump tried to wield the power of law enforcement to target a political rival, a step that no president since Nixon is known to have taken.https://t.co/YJ5OcMbz0c— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) April 24, 2019

  37. 37

    @🐾BillinGlendaleCA: And you think that Pence would not pardon Trump?

  38. 38
    eemom says:

    @trollhattan:

    “Vaccine-skeptical”??

    Who came up with that shit, which is right up there with “pro-life” and “entitlements” in terms of filthy, insidious, thought control lies masquerading as nomenclature?

  39. 39
    Immanentize says:

    @Martin: Maybe we wouldn’t be in this terrible dilemma with you calling for instant action, NOW!, over and over again if a bunch of idiots didn’t continue to work at discrediting Hillary throughout the primary after she had already won all the way to the convention (and beyond). Maybe she could have prevailed outright. No?

    I consider the people complaining they want immediate action to be in the same thought category as those who continued to complain, “Why didn’t Obama give us single payer health care?! Now!”

  40. 40
    NotMax says:

    @ruemara

    Indeed. Rush is a right wing blowhard, not a strategy.

  41. 41

    @Cheryl Rofer: I suspect that Pence is neck deep in the Russia mess, wasn’t he chosen by Manafort.

  42. 42
    plato says:

    @trollhattan:

    Anti-vaxxers are the real virus and they are growing.

    More than half a million children in the UK were not given a crucial measles jab between 2010 and 2017, an analysis by children’s charity Unicef reveals.

    It comes as NHS chief, Simon Stevens, warned measles cases had almost quadrupled in England in just one year and urged families to have the vaccine.

    He said people rejecting vaccines was a “growing public health time bomb”.

    Globally, the report shows, 169 million children were not given a first dose of measles vaccine between 2010 and 2017.

    Measles is a highly infectious viral illness that can lead to serious health complications, including infections of the lungs and brain, and is sometimes fatal.

    Health experts say children should have two doses of the vaccine to fully protect against the disease.

    But, according to Unicef, a mixture of complacency, misinformation, scepticism about immunisations, and a lack of access to jabs has led to inadequate vaccination rates globally.

  43. 43
  44. 44
    Ohio Mom says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: We have optically scanned paper ballots here. Worth noting because it’s not often Cincinnati is at the forefront of doing something the right way.

  45. 45

    @Immanentize:

    I consider the people complaining they want immediate action to be in the same thought category as those who continued to complain, “Why didn’t Obama give us single payer health care?! Now!”

    He didn’t even try… //

  46. 46
    Fair Economist says:

    @piratedan:

    If the GRU can hack our elections and gain access into the guts of American Infrastructure, what makes the GOP think that their bank accounts will be left untouched when they get around to wrecking the rest of system?

    They should look at Hungary. Now that the ruling party has unchallenged control, they’re stealing businesses all over the country. Sell your business for a fraction of its value or they will pass laws to put you out of business.

    The wealthy think it’s all a game, because their wealth shields them. But once you’re in an illiberal society, there’s no shield. Even the wealthiest end up in prison or mysteriously dead.

  47. 47
    rikyrah says:

    Joy Reid hosting Chris Hayes tonight.

  48. 48
    piratedan says:

    @Cheryl Rofer: you would think, that perhaps someone in the GOP would see where this is going and decide, purely pragmatically of course, to throw themselves on their sword, and thereby garner for themselves some sort of sympathy and establish a powerbase in the post apocalyptic GOP. Unless there really is no redemption possible for these guys. I see no way for this not to come out. I get the sense that the IC is willing to let this play out but if the GOP continues to play the courts and the media successfully, then I can just see all of this being dumped out in the public domain and if there’s civil war, so be it but I get the sense that the IC isn’t just going to let a fascist coup be completed without some kind of response.

  49. 49
    lamh36 says:

    @TheAdvocateMag
    Follow Follow @TheAdvocateMag
    More
    It’s official: Mayor Pete will be on Fox News.https://twitter.com/TheAdvocateMag/status/1120788324929744896

    There is no good reason for any Dem to go on Faux News…

  50. 50
    japa21 says:

    The Deutsche Bank thing can be bigger than we may think. It occurs to me that Cohen reported that Trump would inflate his worth to get loans and deflate to avoid taxes. I would have to think that income information is on the paperwork that the bank has and it will be super easy for the AG to get the state returns and compare figures. Same would go for property value and relation to real estate taxes.

  51. 51
    japa21 says:

    Interesting how the GOP is no longer making any noise about the Russian interference or the need to safeguard our elections from them and other outside entities. The only way to safeguard elections to them is to make sure that people who are fully qualified to vote aren’t allowed to for various reasons, such as skin color.

    I remember during the 2004 campaign, some people in England were writing letters to people in, IIRC, Ohio encouraging them to vote for Kerry. The actual numbers were small, but the GOP howled to high heaven how this would corrupt the process. I guess they are now fine with corrupting the process.

  52. 52
    japa21 says:

    @piratedan: The real key will be if intelligence agencies in other countries decide that the risk in exposing things is less than allowing Trump to continue.

  53. 53
    chopper says:

    @lamh36:

    There is no good reason for any Dem to go on Faux News…

    QFT.

  54. 54
    NotMax says:

    @japa21

    IOKIYAR doesn’t float to the top just in alphabet soup.

    ;)

  55. 55
    Amir Khalid says:

    @japa21:
    So these people would also have a problem with a Malaysian commentor on a top-10,000 politicl blog in America? I’m glad I escaped their notice.

    By the way, Manchester United lost their home derby match to City 2-0. I knew we couldn’t count on those wimps.

  56. 56
    Dan B says:

    @Fair Economist: Framing this as a security threat to US businesses would be excellent!

    I venture that few people have anything but a superficial notion of Democracy except as getting to vote. How many people vote? Not a high percentage. But framing it as a threat to security, and a threat to business, brings it home. They may take notice.

    The first task of impeachment is awakening the public. It’s the trial in the public realm that carries the rest.

  57. 57
    germy says:

    You would be wise to view any "movement" that attaches "or we should refuse to vote" to its manifesto as a ploy to try and get you to disenfranchise yourself. Be wary. #themoreyouknow— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) April 1, 2019

  58. 58
    Doug R says:

    @Amir Khalid: I was born in the US to Canadian parents so as a dual national I can be twice as obnoxious.

  59. 59
    tobie says:

    @lamh36: he was already on Chris Wallace’s Sunday show two or three weeks ago. Is this an announcement for a fox town hall?

  60. 60
    Betty Cracker says:

    @lamh36: Agreed — Democrats shouldn’t go on Fox, period. It might be good for a particular candidate’s campaign (e.g., Sanders got a lot of positive press from his recent Fox town hall), but when Democrats (and those who pretend to be Democrats during presidential elections) go on Fox, they’re giving it unearned legitimacy, plus they’re undermining the great work people like Jane Mayer have done to expose Fox as the propaganda outlet it is. The Obama dudes on Pod Save America made those points in a recent podcast. They’re absolutely right.

  61. 61
    Betty says:

    It is the ongoing obstruction that makes it appear that impeachment needs to be considered sooner rather than later. The Clinton White House cooperated in all the investigations – even if they weren’t legitimate. Quite a different situation.

  62. 62
    NotMax says:

    @Amir Khalid

    Speaking of criminality at the tippy top, what’s been shakin’ with the previous PM?

  63. 63
    Riodawg says:

    Another poster mentioned Joy hosting Hayes show. What do y’all think of a Harris/Castro ticket?

  64. 64
    Chris says:

    @Fair Economist:

    They figure as long as they’re tight with the regime, they’ll be the ones benefiting from the looting and not the ones being looted.

    There’s some logic behind this. As I recall there were quite a few German Gentile businessmen who profited nicely from the destruction of their Jewish competitors.

  65. 65
    Chris says:

    @piratedan:

    You have a lot more faith in the IC than I do. This is the same community that deciding to shiv Hillary Clinton in the last election.

  66. 66
    lamh36 says:

    In some incidences…I have some issues with the death penalty.

    In this incidence…I feel fine.

    Judge me if you will!

    @KBTXRusty
    Follow Follow @KBTXRusty
    More
    EXECUTED IN HUNTSVILLE: John William King was pronounced dead at 7:08 p.m. for his role in the racially-motivates dragging death of James Byrd Jr. in Jasper TX in 1998.

    https://twitter.com/KBTXRusty/status/1121207110824538116

    I think it’s an interesting story on why it took 20 years?

  67. 67
    janesays says:

    Josh Marshall presents an extremely depressing scenario to ponder… what if the Democrats do move forward with impeachment in the belief that they will be more empowered to subpoena documents and testimony, and Trump still refuses to play ball? They would obviously fight it in the courts, all the way up to SCOTUS, and then…? Does anybody really think it’s unthinkable that this Supreme Court would ultimately side with Trump in his stonewalling? The Roberts Court of 2019 is not the Burger Court of 1974.

    Public sentiment is not currently in favor of removing Trump from office. But many believe that an exhaustive and highly visible public impeachment inquiry could drive public sentiment in our direction, because the process will shed light on all kinds of corruption that we don’t even know about yet. But what if it doesn’t, because the White House chooses to ignore all subpoenas, and Justices Roberts, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh all side with the White House stonewalling stance?

    Then what?

    We may be well and truly fucked.

  68. 68
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @NotMax:

    “People wonder how this country allowed such an idiot to be elected president.”

    Rep. Clyburn is a Democratic congressman.

    It would do him good to look into the Republican party’s history over the past 40+ years.

  69. 69
    Baud says:

    @janesays:

    They can’t stop an impeachment vote.

  70. 70
    Amir Khalid says:

    @NotMax: Najib’s trial goeth on.
    ETA: a report from Day 8.

  71. 71
    rikyrah says:

    Adam Serwer🍝 (@AdamSerwer) Tweeted:
    2019 and Florida just passed a racist poll tax. The 24th Amendment explicitly forbids poll taxes but it’s no match for five justices who don’t care what it says. https://t.co/TMXJEtu0G3 https://twitter.com/AdamSerwer/status/1121188819112480768?s=17

  72. 72
    debbie says:

    @germy:

    If hacking is a crime, isn’t Trump abetting criminals?

  73. 73
    NotMax says:

    @mrmoshpotato

    Rep. Clyburn is a Democratic congressman.

    Whosoever intimated otherwise?

  74. 74
    Ben Cisco says:

    @Riodawg: I could roll with that.

  75. 75
    Dan B says:

    @chopper: There are some real downsides and traps to going on Fox. I want their “fair and balanced” deceipt exposed. All the same it would be good for Pete to be on. He’s pretty unflappable and seems reasonable. My in-laws have Fox on non stop. They used to be progressive. They’d find Pete appealing. Then the Christers would go on full throttle and relentless but subtle attack. My in-laws have been around and supportive of my partner for decades but they don’t pay attention to LGBT news. They believe we have full civil rights in the US. They believe we have no risks to our safety. Fox is the only outlet that can reach them, by exposing their hate filled agenda.

    I’ve been on radio and TV many times for gay rights. The right wingers lose ground because an ordinary person like me brings a level of truth telling and personal stories that ring true. If LGBT people only ever appeared on friendly media we wouldn’t be where we are today. We’d still be invisible which is where right wingers want us.

    It’s dangerous but you must reach people where they are.

  76. 76
    janesays says:

    @Baud: No, they can’t, but what actual good will that vote do if we haven’t succeeded in swaying public opinion to support it, because we haven’t been successful in fully revealing all of the corruption because Trump stonewalls and SCOTUS backs him up on it?

    I’m not talking about being able to make a case so compelling that the Senate must convict him (there is no scenario in which that is a realistic possibility), I’m talking about making a case so compelling that the Senate’s refusal to remove him will actually harm Republicans far more than any possible harm that might come to Democrats for being unable to finish the job.

    The main argument I hear in favor of impeachment being a pragmatic good despite a near certainty of failure to remove him in the Senate is that the whole process will make Trump and the Republicans look so bad that the people will be on our side, because we’ve publicly revealed the awful truth about this man. But what if we can’t actually fully reveal that truth because he is allowed by our highest court to keep so much of it hidden?

  77. 77
    Jay says:

    @janesays:

    If the Democratic Party does not start the lengthy process, investigations, hearings, constructing a motion of Impeachment,

    You are well and truly f€cked.

    There will remain only one branch of Government, the House and Senate will be irrelevant, not co-equal.

    In the process, there’s a bunch of ReThugs who can probably be censured and impeached first, Barr, Nunes, etc, stripping some protections away from the Insane Clown POSus.

  78. 78
    Baud says:

    @janesays:

    Then we’ll have to press our case based on his lack of candor. In the end, there’s no cure for a bad voting populace.

  79. 79
    Keith P. says:

    Note to Hillary: It’s the votes, stupid. That’s why you’re there, while he’s over *there*.

  80. 80
    chopper says:

    @Keith P.:

    funny, i remember her getting 3 million more of those “votes”.

  81. 81
    Dan B says:

    @Riodawg: I like Harris / Castro but wonder if it’s too much minorities for America. It’s probably the “too gay for my friends” line about Pete but a really enthused cohort of women, black, and brown voters could swell the vote. And LGBT blogs seem to love Kamala and Liz as much as, or more than, Pete. If Castro can bring out the latinx vote and youth as much as Kamala, without scaring soccer moms, it could be perfect.

  82. 82
    lamh36 says:

    @natemcdermott
    1h1 hour ago
    More
    New by @KFILE and me:

    Bernie Sanders in 1970s Senate race called millionaire senators ‘immoral’ before… becoming a millionaire senator himself
    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/24/politics/bernie-millionaire-senators-immoral/index.html

    https://twitter.com/natemcdermott/status/1121193647263842305

  83. 83
    janesays says:

    @Jay: I think the House must begin the process of impeachment, or at least the process that leads to impeachment, but I’m not convinced it will pay the dividends that I think some think it will. Again, I’m not talking about removing him from office via impeachment – only the exceptionally naive can believe there is even a remote possibility of that happening. I’m talking about the process being able to sway public opinion substantially against the president from where it currently stands. If we’re unable to actually reveal anything new in the impeachment process, I don’t see how public opinion moves against him from where it already is. I agree that doing nothing is not at all an option, I just think that it’s possible we may be screwed no matter what.

    There’s a specific sentence you wrote which stands out in this regard:

    “There will remain only one branch of Government, the House and Senate will be irrelevant, not co-equal.”

    What if we’re already there?

  84. 84
    Dan B says:

    @lamh36: In some instances I have trouble with life in solitary as well.

  85. 85
    Baud says:

    @Keith P.:

    What the fuck is wrong with you?

  86. 86
    Betty Cracker says:

    @janesays: Marshall’s question is a good one — many folks (including me) have assumed that the courts would require Trump to cough up subpoenaed documents, etc., in an impeachment inquiry because Congress’s power to conduct impeachment inquiries is enshrined in the Constitution. That assumption hasn’t been tested in a Congress where the Senate majority has abdicated its role in checks and balances and Trump has packed the court with hard-right Republican ideologues.

  87. 87
    Dan B says:

    @janesays: We may already be f’d. If we do not put this in the public realm we may proceed to dictatorship of the oligarchs faster. The investigations Mueller farmed out will make a solid wall of flame aimed at the GOP. It’s a lady or tiger dilemma. But one door includes cowardice and lack of faith in the citizens of this country.

  88. 88
    Riodawg says:

    @Dan B: I think the inclusivity along with CA and TX name recognition could represent a very powerful pairing. We’re awfully early out, but I can dream!

  89. 89
    Jeffro says:

    @Fair Economist:

    [the rich] should look at Hungary. Now that the ruling party has unchallenged control, they’re stealing businesses all over the country. Sell your business for a fraction of its value or they will pass laws to put you out of business.

    The wealthy think it’s all a game, because their wealth shields them. But once you’re in an illiberal society, there’s no shield. Even the wealthiest end up in prison or mysteriously dead.

    Exactly what happened in Russia under Putin.

    Hey rich folks: look around! You trust your fellow .01%ers to protect you, your family, and your wealth if it means they can make a buck or $1B?

  90. 90
    Fair Economist says:

    @Chris:

    They figure as long as they’re tight with the regime, they’ll be the ones benefiting from the looting and not the ones being looted.

    Of course, because they don’t look at the history of illiberal regimes and the constant “you’re in then you’re out”. Once the looters have looted everybody else, they have to start looting each other. Generally they start long before that point anyway.

    Of course, if they knew history they’d be educated, and probably not Republican.

  91. 91
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Keith P.:
    She’s not even talking about the public voting. The first order of business here is to investigate and conduct hearings, to get as full a picture as possible of the Trump campaign’s and administration’s doings in the matter. If you want a rock-solid case for the House to vote for impeachment and the Senate to remove Trump from office, that is how you go about building it.
    Yes, Mitch McConnell will refuse to hold a vote on Trumps removal from office out of pure partisan spite. And you will want to have that rock-solid case to hang around his neck when he does.

  92. 92
    Jay says:

    @janesays:

    There’s a bunch of people in the Redacted Meuller Report who told Meuller to f€ck off and took the 5th, who can’t take the 5th in House Hearings.

    There’s a bunch of people who lied to Meuller with out consequence, because the standard for criminal perjoury is higher than political perjoury.

    And there’s this One Weird Trick. The Supremes are the 4th co-equal branch of the US system of government. If they overturn precedent or Federalist their way into neutering the House and Senate, then they have neutered themselves.

    No US President will ever have to engage in Democracy, ever.

  93. 93
    Keith P. says:

    @chopper: OK, then electoral votes. Either way, her shitty campaigning helped to get her where she is today, and expecting long, nuanced screeds (that folks have to *read*, no less) to change minds makes it a good thing she’s sitting this one out.

  94. 94
    gwangung says:

    @Dan B:

    I like Harris / Castro but wonder if it’s too much minorities for America.

    The America I’m a part of likes that just fine. Cuz we’re AT LEAST as brown as these two…

  95. 95
    Mike in DC says:

    @Dan B: I like Harris/Castro as well. It’s a solid ticket, character, experience and policy-wise, plus it has the added element of saying to hardcore Trump supporters, “Because FUCK YOU, THAT’S WHY”.

  96. 96
    rikyrah says:

    👏👏👏👏

    Thank you, Hillary

  97. 97
    Bobby Thomson says:

    I didn’t think anyone worth listening to was demanding an immediate impeachment vote, just that impeachment hearings start. There’s no daylight between that and this op-ed.

  98. 98
    Sebastian says:

    @janesays:

    You are forgetting that the IC has the goods.

  99. 99
    Emma says:

    @Keith P.: Again with this bs? The vote was rigged; the ELECTION was rigged. And she has more brains in her pinky that you have in your whole head.

  100. 100
    joel hanes says:

    @geg6:

    She and, even more so, we were robbed. I’ll never get over it. Never.

    Same deal with Gore, except with less actual process legitimacy.
    Never to forget. Never to forgive.
    Grandaeva Factio delenda est.

  101. 101
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Keith P.: her shitty campaigning that got her the second most votes in history and required the opposition to cheat and penetrate electoral systems to win.

    Kindly fuck the hell off, stranger.

  102. 102
    Dan B says:

    @Keith P.: I’ve made some critical observations about Hillary’s campaign, as have friends who were and are in love with her. Hindsight runs the most brillianty, perfecty, fairy dust sparkly campaign evah!

    You try…

  103. 103
    Original Lee says:

    @trollhattan: Whatever happened to quarantine? I would happily support putting these people on a small island together until they agree to be vaccinated.

  104. 104
    Riodawg says:

    @Mike in DC: Yes, indeed!

  105. 105
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Jay:

    There’s a bunch of people in the Redacted Meuller Report who told Meuller to f€ck off and took the 5th, who can’t take the 5th in House Hearings.

    That’s not how the Fifth Amendment works. People can and often do take the Fifth in Congressional proceedings.

  106. 106
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @janesays: stop with the hand wringing. If what you suggest is true there’s certainly no downside, is there?

  107. 107
    Another Scott says:

    @janesays: If people are willing to break all the rules, and the laws, then it really doesn’t matter what the rules and laws say need to happen, does it? It’s not the laws that make our system work, but the people in the system.

    A lot more is going to come out in the next 559 days. We don’t know what other shoes are going to drop, and neither does Donnie.

    The system isn’t broken beyond repair yet. Our team needs to do what it can within the system and make the strongest case possible that Donnie needs to follow the law. If he doesn’t, well, we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. But the process has to play out.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  108. 108
    joel hanes says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    I believe I’m detecting the defensive bleatings of someone who did not vote for Clinton and thus believes with all his heart that voters bear no responsibility for outcomes — politicians must seduce them into making responsible choices..

  109. 109
    Dan B says:

    Seems pretty solid from the reactions here that Keith is a capital P!

    Hillary’s op-ed seems aimed perfectly at her target audience. If we keep it up, and target business leaders with stories of happy times in Russia and Hungary, we might make some solid progress.

  110. 110
    Original Lee says:

    @Betty Cracker: Except that the mushy middle doesn’t care if Faux is a propaganda machine, because they regard all national news outlets as propaganda machines anyway. There are actually quite an increasing number of Republicans who are liking Mayor Pete and one way to reach them is by going on Faux. Liking as in, Dang, I’d vote for him, he sounds sane. Having just spent a week in a heavily Trumpista area of the country and hearing this a surprising number of times, I wouldn’t write him off for it.

  111. 111
    Jay says:

    @Bobby Thomson:

    People who have jobs subject to Congressional Oversight, cannot invoke the 5th Amendment, with out penalty.

    Just as you cannot take the 5th with your Boss, with out penalty.

    People not subject to Congressional oversight, can invoke the 5th, but must adhere to the 5th through out the hearing.

  112. 112
    janesays says:

    @Keith P.:

    expecting long, nuanced screeds (that folks have to *read*, no less) to change minds makes it a good thing she’s sitting this one out.

    A 12 paragraph Op-Ed that takes less than 3 minutes to read is a “long nuanced screed”? Seriously?

  113. 113
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @lamh36: I don’t have the stats in front of me, but IIRC the average death row prisoner takes over 15 years from conviction to execution.

    I am against the death penalty even in cases like this asshole.

  114. 114
    Jay says:

    @janesays:

    He prefer’s twits,

    “The subpoena is ridiculous. We have been — I have been the most transparent president and administration in the history of our country by far.

    “We’re fighting all of the subpoenas. These aren’t impartial people. The Democrats are trying to win 2020. They’re not going to win with the people that I see. And they aren’t going to win against me.” — Comrade Prznint Stupid

    Confessing to obstruction of justice yet again.

  115. 115
    Dan B says:

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve waffled about going on Fox or boycotting to undermine their ad dollars. It seems that if they lose influence the vacuim may be filled by Sinclair.

    Sinclair did horrible damage to Seattle politics around homelessness. They framed it as a terrifying crime wave the liberal / socialist city council lies about with studies and statistics. Our homeless crisis, 10,000 on the streets and growing, needs bold approaches. Any pol who holds a town hall to discuss solutions gets shouted down. They’ve fallen for the brain stem trap – frontal cortex overruled

    What we need are variations on the Fairness Doctrine to hold all media accountable to the community. Fox or no Fox we’ve got systemic problems.

    All demonstrations that go to city hall or the Federal building are missing the source of the rot

  116. 116
    janesays says:

    @Bobby Thomson: Your overall point is valid, but “second-most votes in history” is kind of a meaningless statistic. By that metric, Donald Trump got the 4th most votes in history, and got more than 30 times as many votes as Abraham Lincoln got in 1860. George W. Bush got the most votes in history in 2004. Fifty years from now, neither Hillary Clinton’s nor Donald Trump’s vote totals will even crack the top ten.

  117. 117
    janesays says:

    Also worth noting – technically, Clinton did not get the second-most votes in history, though it’s true that only one person ever got more votes than her. Barack Obama’s vote totals in 2008 and 2012 were both higher than Clinton’s was in 2016.

  118. 118
    Dan B says:

    @Original Lee: I hear that a lot from numerous comments on LGBT blogs. People who are regular credible commenters who are amazed to hear from relatives or acquaintances that they like Pete or feel hope for once. I hope Kamala is watching and learning from Pete’s rhetorical genius. This crop of candidates seem capable of elevating each other.

    Apparently not all Fox viwers are lost forever. I had that experience on several anti-gay outlets. At one time that was all outlets. They can change.

  119. 119
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jay: There are times where one should admit that one is not an expert in all things. This is one of those times for you.

  120. 120
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    There are times where one should admit that one is not an expert in all things.

    This statement confirms that you are not an MD, MBA, or federal judge.

  121. 121
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Steve in the ATL: I can find and hire an expert in all things though. Good enough for our profession.

  122. 122
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Daubert standard FTW

  123. 123
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Steve in the ATL

    :@Omnes Omnibus:

    There are times where one should admit that one is not an expert in all things.

    This statement confirms that you are not an MD, MBA, or federal judge.

    This is very true.

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I can find and hire an expert in all things though. Good enough for our profession.

    Indeed it is, generally. Now I’m trying to find a jeweler to restore an 1860 mourning ring assayed at the Birmingham assay office. My jeweler, and old friend and now next door neighbor, tells me they are hard to find because it’s cold enamel set with stones. She’s asking her sources. Of course that’s personal, so never mind. You were correct; I’ll just have some more wine and enjoy the rest of my week away from 6 minute hell.

  124. 124
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: just wrapped up a trial in which I was up against the union attorney, the NLRB general counsel attorney, and the NLRB judge. Somehow it didn’t feel fair…good thing I’m not sensitive.

  125. 125
    mad citizen says:

    @Dan B: I really don’t think that Kamala needs or takes lessons from Petey B. Nothing against him, but she’s older, also done a shit-ton, and is already great.

  126. 126
    Bill Arnold says:

    @japa21:

    The Deutsche Bank thing can be bigger than we may think. It occurs to me that Cohen reported that Trump would inflate his worth to get loans and deflate to avoid taxes.

    D.J. Trump’s kryptonite is evidence that his net worth is significant less than he claims. (Perhaps this was posted here by someone; reposting if so. Bold mine):
    This Joke Was Off-limits at Donald Trump’s Comedy Central Roast (E. Alex Jung Aug. 3, 2016)

    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s hair
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s wife Melania (and his two previous marriages)
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump having sex with models
    ALLOWED: Jokes about the failure of Trump Steaks, Trump Water, Trump Cologne, and other Trump products
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s failed casinos
    ALLOWED: Jokes about how Trump only became successful thanks to his wealthy father
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump’s weight
    ALLOWED: Jokes about Trump being attracted to his daughter Ivanka
    NOT ALLOWED: Any joke that suggests Trump is not actually as wealthy as he claims to be

    FWIW at the very end of that piece is the note: “* Aaron Lee has clarified with Vulture that there was no “approved” list of topics — simply a mandate that jokes about Trump not being as wealthy as he claims were off-limits.”

  127. 127
    J R in WV says:

    @Baud:

    Keith P.

    Note to Hillary: It’s the votes, stupid. That’s why you’re there, while he’s over *there*.

    @Keith P.:

    What the fuck is wrong with you?

    He’s a Troll for the Rs, either Russians or Republicans, same-same!

  128. 128
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Steve in the ATL: In case anyone cares, I was involved in MDL 486, an action that preceded Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals. Barry Nace had some MI cases that followed it – as his clients didn’t join the MDL, which I think were the genesis of Daubert. He was not a pleasant guy. Our expert was an embryologist named Stewart Newman from somewhere in NY state; it was a long time ago. He was a great guy.

    @Steve in the ATL: That it is (good thing you’re not easily bruised). I expect you got seriously homered in that arena, given the players. G-d damn I miss the courtroom.

  129. 129
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: have you ever known a highly successful plaintiffs attorney who wasn’t an asshole? I haven’t!

  130. 130
    J R in WV says:

    @Keith P.:

    … Either way, her [Hillary Clinton’s] shitty campaigning helped to get her where she is today, and expecting long, nuanced screeds (that folks have to *read*, no less) to change minds makes it a good thing she’s sitting this one out.

    OK, now. Fuck you with a rusty farm implement for being a shit head Russian Troll. Pie forever, asshole — *read* that, fuckwit!

  131. 131
    chopper says:

    @Keith P.:

    oh my god, fucking READING? will no one stop this vile beast hillary?? the humanity!

  132. 132
    Steve in the ATL says:

    @Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho: judge recommended we try settlement talks again. Said, while looking at the table with the NLRB and union attorneys, “I will make a ruling here, but bear in mind that the new board is reversing all kinds of rulings now….”

  133. 133
    Alternative Fax, a hip hop artist from Idaho says:

    @Steve in the ATL: Actually, yes! The Chair of the Plaintiff’s counsel committee was a wonderful guy; he offered me a job but my father was busy dying soon to be followed by my mother and I couldn’t move at that moment. Another member was pretty cool too; he invited me to the Super Bowl when the Bengals played in Miami. That’s 2 out of the 467 or so I know.

    @Steve in the ATL: Sounds like fun – that’s actually a tad of leverage perhaps! Ping me sometime off site and give me details (should you have time and inclination).

  134. 134
    J R in WV says:

    @janesays:

    @Keith P.:

    A 12 paragraph Op-Ed that takes less than 3 minutes to read is a “long nuanced screed”? Seriously?

    Shows how big a reader Keith P really is. Has trouble with multiple syllables, also too. Surprised he could spell nuanced..!!

  135. 135
    chopper says:

    i will literally never forgive hillary clinton for making me have to read something. this is america, goddammit, we communicate through a series of high-fives and fart sounds.

  136. 136
    Betty Cracker says:

    @Original Lee: I don’t write him off for it either, but I still think it’s a net harm to progressive causes for any Democrat to legitimize Fox News by appearing on its programs as if it were a regular news network. The handful of reachable Fox viewing voters isn’t worth enabling that white grievance factory, IMO.

  137. 137
    CatFacts says:

    Dang, the trolls and doom-and-gloom brigade are out in force on this thread. Sounds like Hillary’s ideas have worried some folks!

  138. 138
    Manyakitty says:

    @Riodawg: That was my first dream team of this election season. I’m still here for it.

  139. 139
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Jesus Christ, people. Keith P has been commenting here for quite a while. Not everyone who says something you don’t like is a fucking Russian troll. But wait! Maybe I am a Russian bot who has been commenting here for more than 10 years to set up my perfect cover for defending Comrade Keith.

  140. 140
    plato says:

    Over 60% of flipped seats in midterms were by women. Women did better than men. This is just blatantly a sexist unfounded fear https://t.co/U42hlsPSJ7— Mia Brett 👸🏻 (@QueenMab87) April 24, 2019

    Fukcing npr got dragged over its stupid tweet.

  141. 141
    Miss Bianca says:

    @Keith P.: ok, I’m with Baud here: wtf is wrong with you? Seriously.

  142. 142
    Jay says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Evil Villain 101 covers it during the first class,

    Never, never, never monologue your evil plot,…….

  143. 143
    Elizabelle says:

    Good morning, jackals. Just woke up. Delighted to read an op ed by President Hillary.

    It pains me every day that she was denied her win.

  144. 144
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    The sober and elder statesman Jeff Sessons was opining that it’s time for the nation to move on, because that’s what Americans do when there are crimes, shrug and say “oh well”.

    Actually if the that’s the best defense the Right can come up for Trump the Democrats need to press on. Compare that to reaction to the Star report were it was “and why is this the public business?”

  145. 145
    Zifnab25 says:

    Our election was corrupted, our democracy assaulted, our sovereignty and security violated

    I’m genuinely curious to know whether people actually believe Rick Scott and Brian Kemp had less of an impact on 2016 than Vladmir Putin

  146. 146
    Zifnab25 says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: It worked so well in 2009

Comments are closed.