Muellergate Open Thread: All the President’s Minions

So, as it happens, Dave Roth’s done another fine pigbladdering of a most deserving target…

One of the most common misunderstandings about Dumb Guys is that they are not capable of doing things. This is false. They can and in fact absolutely love to do complicated-sounding things like scheme and intrigue. They may not do those things well, and will generally do them in arbitrary and ineffective ways. But they will attack the work of scheming and maneuvering and infighting with all the vigor of a dog trying to carry a too-big tree branch through a doorway…

… It is a common Dumb Guy trait to stop assimilating new information at some moment of great personal success; there is no reason to think that Jon Gruden believes the NFL is any different than it was when he won a Super Bowl in it during George W. Bush’s first term.

The problem is that all that intrigue creates its own sort of paranoid gravity. The Dumb Guy believes that the moment he stops scheming is the moment that he becomes vulnerable, and so must throw himself into constant counter-intrigue and intrigue-maintenance and general amphetamized vigilance. And that, according to Ian Rapoport, is where the Raiders stand today, after Mayock and Gruden sent home the team’s entire scouting department because they “don’t know who to trust.”…

Yeah, not exactly about Our Political Moment. But it certainly could be!

Because if there is one common denominator to the collection of grifters, racists, willing traitors, overconfident scions and all-purpose villains that compose the Oval Office Squatters Squad, it is that they are every one a Dumb Guy, revolving around the Dumb Guy in Chief.

Not to mention Attorney “Cover-Up” General William Barr, who deserves a post (and a level in Dante’s inferno) all his own!

Well, there might be one possible exception

242 replies
  1. 1

    Damn I definitely thought that was about Trump until the very end of the excerpt!

  2. 2
  3. 3
    Hob says:

    That’s what the Russians figured out. Americans, Republicans in particular, want to have all their biases and bigotries confirmed.

    I don’t want to bring anyone down but… it’s possible that this might be a problem all over the world, and not actually a special thing about Americans.

  4. 4
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    All of these motherfuckers need to die in prison. Sooner rather than later.

  5. 5
    NotMax says:

    Guys I am not optimistic that Jared Kushner is going to deliver on that whole peace in the Middle East thing.

    “Pieces. We said pieces!” //

  6. 6
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Well, looks like we have a happy jackal in Kuala Lumpur early on this Monday morning.

  7. 7
    debbie says:

    I’d bet her husband has counseled Kellyanne through all of this.

  8. 8
    West of the Rockies says:

    Time and time again, I wonder about the same thing: if it were all reversed, if HRC or PBO had been revealed to be armpit-deep in toxic muck, would progressives have admitted it and turned on them?

    I truly believe the answer is YES. We are imperfect. We have our own firebrands and knuckleheads, but as a group I believe we have more integrity and honor.

    I do not understand how Trump voters can still look at anyone in this current administration and not feel embarrassed, besoiled and besmirched.

  9. 9
    zhena gogolia says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    You’re absolutely right.

  10. 10
    Sloane Ranger says:

    In addition to the shadenfreude of Bu Her Emails, would I be right in assuming that Bannon has just admitted to a criminal offence by 1, using his personal BB on official business and 2, “somehow” losing the texts?

  11. 11
    NotMax says:

    @West of the Rockies

    Past time to replace the elephant with the dung beetle.

  12. 12
    MomSense says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    I can’t get that photo of trump with Kislyak and Lavrov innthe Oval Office. He was grinning and obviously pleased with himself AFTER he found out that Russia had attacked our election.


  13. 13
    Baud says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    I do not understand how Trump voters can still look at anyone in this current administration and not feel embarrassed, besoiled and besmirched.

    They care about power, not reputation. They’ll take all the mockery the left has to offer as long as enough people on our side ensure their continued rule.

  14. 14
    germy says:

    @NotMax: Or cockroach.

  15. 15
    Baud says:

    @Sloane Ranger:

    No. It’s not a crime. The only reason you might think it’s a crime is because a substantial number of people participated in that con job when the target was HRC.

  16. 16
    Luthe says:

    @NotMax: That’s an insult to a useful, hard-working insect.

  17. 17

    On top of all of this, remember this is the heavily redacted version. They don’t care about or even understand national security redactions, so the redactions will all be stuff that is much, much worse.

  18. 18
    smintheus says:

    Remember when Republicans pretended to be irate that a Canadian uranium mining company had been sold to a Russian company, and they spent years trying to pin the blame on Democrats for “losing” the mining company and its assets?

    Now Republicans don’t care one bit that the American government has been sold out to the Russian government.

  19. 19
    West of the Rockies says:


    Oh, good heavens… That picture. Ugh. They all thought themselves to so clever. History will reveal them to be human-porcine hybrids.

  20. 20
    germy says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: From what I understood, the redactions are about things that are still under ongoing investigations?

    Or are most of the redactions there to protect other republicans from public embarrassment?

  21. 21
    smintheus says:

    @MomSense @West of the Rockies: Lavrov and Kislyak were laughing between themselves at Trump, to his face. The body language is plain.

  22. 22
    B.B.A. says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Time and time again, I wonder about the same thing: if it were all reversed, if HRC or PBO had been revealed to be armpit-deep in toxic muck, would progressives have admitted it and turned on them?

    We didn’t turn on Bill. Many of us still haven’t. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen his serial sexual harassment dismissed as “consensual affairs.”

  23. 23
    Bill Arnold says:

    This had escaped my attention previously. Interesting. Bold mine:
    Page 27, volume 2:

    Corney 1/7/17 Memorandum, at 1-2; Corney I 1/15/17 302, at 3. Corney’s briefing included the Steele reporting’s unverified allegation that the Russians had compromising tapes of the President involving conduct when he was a private citizen during a 2013 trip to Moscow for the Miss Universe Pageant. During the 2016 presidential campaign, a similar claim may have reached candidate Trump. On October 30, 2016, Michael Cohen received a text from Russian businessman Giorgi Rtskhiladze that said, “Stopped flow of tapes from Russia but not sure if there’ s anything else. Just so you know …. ” 10/30/16 Text Message, Rtskhiladze to Cohen. Rtskhiladze said “tapes” referred to compromising tapes of Trump rumored to be held by persons associated with the Russian real estate conglomerate Crocus Group, which had helped host to assure him that the FBI was not investigating him personally. Corney recalled he did not want the President-Elect to think of the conversation as a “J. Edgar Hoover move.”

    Cohen 9/ 12/ 18 302, at 13. Rtskhiladze said he
    was told the tapes were fake, but he did not communicate that to Cohen. Rtskhiladze 5/ l 0/ 18 302, at 7.

  24. 24
    Baud says:

    On the plus side, I’d imagine Putin is wondering how the hell the Mueller report became public at all. I doubt very much he would allow such a thing to happen in Russia.

  25. 25
    Baud says:


    What a right wing comparison.

  26. 26
    MattF says:

    Kellyanne is apparently the source of the “liberals should now apologize” RW meme. I continue to be boggled by it, and… I guess I’m impressed. Le sigh.

  27. 27
    grubert says:


    I don’t know how many times I’ve seen his serial sexual harassment dismissed as “consensual affairs.”

    And you have solid evidence they were *not* “consensual affairs?”

    If it’s credible then I’ll change my opinion.

  28. 28
    Baud says:


    It’s cheap and easy to say things. In the olden days, when Dems did it, it would be derided as a “strernly worded letter” or “just words.”

  29. 29
    Baud says:


    Don’t let this thread devolve into a discussion of Bill Clinton.

  30. 30
  31. 31
  32. 32
    JoyceH says:

    Something that has kind of irked me about the reporting on all this is that back channel that Kushner tried to set up at the Russian embassy using Russian secure communications equipment to evade our own security services – the thing that nobody ever asks and that it doesn’t appear that Kushner was ever asked is this: what did Kushner or Trump need to SAY to Russia and who in Russia did they need to say it to, that it was so important to keep our own government in the dark about?

  33. 33
    NotMax says:


    Life imitates art.

  34. 34
    B.B.A. says:

    @Baud: Agreed. I’m sorry I brought it up.

  35. 35

    @JoyceH: We might also ask his father in law about his Helsinki meeting with Putin.

  36. 36
    Chief Oshkosh says:

    deleted in agreeing with others that this isn’t about Bill Clinton.

  37. 37
    trollhattan says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    I do not understand how Trump voters can still look at anyone in this current administration and not feel embarrassed, besoiled and besmirched.

    It’s for the better, because you’d lose your last shred of faith in humanity. They’ll never quit him.


  38. 38
    Sloane Ranger says:

    @Baud: Ah, I see. Will Mueller come out at some point wearing a very serious expression and make a very firmly worded statement about his lack of good email management then?

  39. 39
    Bill Arnold says:

    Some interesting bits about apparent quid pro quo re Russia sanctions, Volume II pages 24-26. The following are not particular cherry picked. (bold mine)

    On December 29, 2016, as noted in Volume II, Section TT.A.4, supra, the Obama Administration announced that it was imposing sanctions and other measures on several Russian individuals and entities. 80 That day, multiple members of the PTT exchanged emails about the sanctions and the impact they would have on the incoming Administration, and Flynn informed members of the PTT that he would be speaking to the Russian Ambassador later in the day.

    McFarland had spoken with incoming Administration officials about the sanctions and Russia’ s possible responses and thought she had mentioned in those conversations that Flynn was scheduled to speak with Kislyak. Based on those conversations, McFarland informed Flynn that incoming Administration officials at Mar-a-Lago did not want Russia to escalate the situation.

    Priebus recalled that the President-Elect viewed the sanctions as an attempt by the Obama Administration to embarrass him by delegitimizing his election.

    Immediately after discussing the sanctions with McFarland on December 29, 2016, Flynn called Kislyak and requested that Russia respond to the sanctions only in a reciprocal manner, without escalating the situation.

    On December 31, 2016, Kislyak called Flynn and told him that Flynn’s request had been received at the highest levels and Russia had chosen not to retaliate in response to the request.

    Flynn recalled discussing the sanctions issue with incoming Administration official Stephen Bannon the next day. Flynn said that Bannon appeared to know about Flynn’s conversations with Kislyak, and he and Bannon agreed that they had “stopped the train on Russia’s response” to the sanctions.

  40. 40
    West of the Rockies says:

    Remember when Van Jones got the boot for saying something so much less destructive than anything Conway or Sanders or DT Jr. have ever said?

  41. 41
    grubert says:

    Post just one question… and I’m taking over the thread.

  42. 42
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @germy: Looking like he won big.

  43. 43
    germy says:

    @Gin & Tonic: I honestly don’t know enough about that country’s politics to know if this is a good or a bad thing.

  44. 44
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @germy: I’ve written a few posts. The important thing is that in a former-Soviet country, the voters turned against the incumbent, and in a largely free and fair election, with significant turnout, voted him out. And nobody serious has any expectation that he will not abide by the results. I’ve been scratching my head but have not come up with any precedents. Commentators in Russia say the prevailing mood is “why can’t we have this?”

    So in the short term probably a tactical victory for Putin, in the longer term, who knows, if Russians decide they, too, like the idea of peaceful regime change. Zelensky is politically a blank slate, and is a puppet of Ihor Kolomoisky, an oligarch from Dnipropetrovsk, in the industrial southeast of the country.

  45. 45
    Patricia Kayden says:

    Call me when POC can get away with crimes by claiming to be too dumb to understand what they’re doing. Arghhh!

  46. 46
    germy says:

    @Gin & Tonic: From the WaPo article:

    Zelensky has said he will maintain Ukraine’s pro-Western course, and he has pledged not to give away any territory in negotiations with Putin. But he has signaled greater flexibility than Poroshenko in potential negotiations over the war in eastern Ukraine, sparking optimism as well as concern that he could be outmatched by the Kremlin.

    “We would not advise him to talk to Putin alone,” a Western diplomat in Kiev said.

  47. 47
    grubert says:

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Of course it isn’t about him but I get tired of the drip, drip of character assassination.

    besides, it’s not like every single other comment on the thread is a goldmine of valuable insight.

    Here, how about this.. I wonder if Mueller the Republican would have been so strict in his observance of Justice Department rules regarding indicting a sitting president if that sitting president had been a Democrat.

  48. 48
    germy says:

    @grubert: I’m guessing no. He probably wouldn’t have been so strict.

    Just my opinion.

  49. 49
    grubert says:

    @germy: I’m guessing you’re right.

  50. 50
    Kristine says:

    @West of the Rockies: The ones I’ve encountered are in complete denial. The Mueller investigation was a complete fraud/witch hunt, and Barr’s upcoming investigation will reveal the conspiracy.

    A significant number are simply unreachable.

  51. 51
    germy says:

    WATCH: MSNBC reporter Mike Viqueira confronts Robert Mueller outside of his church on Easter Sunday.— Axios (@axios) April 21, 2019

  52. 52
    sukabi says:

    @MomSense: I think you have to spell the Russian names wrong.😂😂😂

  53. 53

    If you’re looking for distraction, I just this minute finished reading Kate Quinn’s The Alice Network, historical fiction about women spies during both the First and Second World Wars. Well written and compelling.

  54. 54
    trollhattan says:

    To what end? “Do you eat the heads off candy rabbits while Trump walks free?”

  55. 55
    chopper says:

    GIULIANI: “You want me to make a moral judgement about it?… if we can impeach based on moral judgments, everybody in the US Congress would have to get impeached.”

    i’d say “someone needs to reread the constitution” but i’ve seen no evidence that rudy’s read it the first time.

  56. 56
    Another Scott says:

    @MomSense: May 16, 2017 WaPo story has lots of pictures in the video (open it with a Private Browsing window if you don’t have a subscription).


  57. 57
    germy says:

    Is anyone else worried that many, if not all, of the 12 criminal investigation referrals that we learned about in the report are under the supervision of the now exposed political hack Barr?— Claire McCaskill (@clairecmc) April 19, 2019

  58. 58
    debbie says:


    Idiot. Keep that up and see if Mueller agrees to testify.

  59. 59
    Sab says:

    @grubert: @germy: Mueller was FBI director from 2001-2013, under Bush and Obama. He was so discreet that he waspretty much invisible that whole time. So yes, he was that strict.

  60. 60

    @chopper: Rudy is telling us something about himself in that quote. He believe immoral behavior is normal and nothing to worry about.

  61. 61
    germy says:


    To what end? “Do you eat the heads off candy rabbits while Trump walks free?”

    Well, his name is Robert.

    [see Kliban cartoon]

  62. 62
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @germy: After five years, people are tired of the war.

  63. 63
    germy says:

    @debbie: Sometimes their desire for dramatic TV outweighs their common sense.

  64. 64
    Spanky says:

    @germy: Well, if they wanted to portray Mueller in a sympathetic manner they succeeded, because that was a dick move.

  65. 65
    West of the Rockies says:


    I think your take is correct, but why precisely is that so? Are hardcore Trumpistas merely ignorant; are they cognitively impaired; are they genuinely suffering from a kind of psychological impairment (Stockholm Syndrome or a kind of mass sociopathy); or are they just that vile, mean-spirited and unwilling to admit they done fucked up?

  66. 66
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Gin & Tonic:
    Mostly but not entirely happy. Manchester City’s next opponent, Manchester United, got badly beaten at Everton today. They seem to have reverted to their Mourinho-era funk, just as we need them to be good enough to take points off City.

  67. 67
    Gin & Tonic says:


    Zelensky has said he will maintain Ukraine’s pro-Western course,

    Since my son is on track to work with the Ministry of Euro-Atlantic Integration, I sure hope so.

  68. 68
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Amir Khalid: One day at a time.

  69. 69
    tobie says:

    @germy: McCaskill hits the nail on the head with that tweet. I’ve been wondering to what degree Barr will interfere with the cases referred to other AGs. Robert Khuzami’s sudden departure from the SDNY last month and the removal of another SDNY prosecutor via a promotion raise serious questions.

  70. 70
    Gin & Tonic says:

    Poroshenko has announced that he is ready to help with an orderly transition of power, and will support Zelensky in all decisions which are in the national interest of Ukraine. Try to imagine Trump saying that on November 4, 2020 to a hypothetical President Harris.

  71. 71
    Ruckus says:

    It’s never a crime when republicans do it. Whatever it is.
    What’s that word, I think it’s – amoral……

  72. 72
    Ruckus says:

    How do you know it wasn’t a channel to receive secure info from the Russians?
    A clear line of communication so that there would be no doubt what the Russians wanted and DT and family could insure that they did as told.

  73. 73
    Kelly says:


    The Mueller investigation was a complete fraud/witch hunt, and Barr’s upcoming investigation will reveal the conspiracy.

    Some of my right wing relatives think anything the Republicans do is justified because the Demonrats covered up Clinton’s lying, corruption,drug smuggling and murders. Also McConnell’s judicial shenanigans are completely justified by the failed Bork nomination. The lunacy is deep.

  74. 74
    rikyrah says:

    AM Joy w/Joy Reid (@amjoyshow) Tweeted:
    .@aimeeallison: 1 in 5 voters in the Democratic primaries are women of color and in swing states like Florida, Georgia, and Texas… that’s 1 in 4…. Can Biden inspire, motivate, and speak to women of color in these key swing states that #Trump won? #AMJoy

  75. 75
    Ruckus says:

    @Patricia Kayden:
    Was going to ask if you actually wanted POC to be thought of as republicans……
    Not sure that would have come off as good as it sounded in my head.

  76. 76
    Ruckus says:

    Is it possible that he’s read it and it went completely over his head?

  77. 77
    Amir Khalid says:

    @West of the Rockies:
    I’d go with option 4.

  78. 78
    sukabi says:

    @rikyrah: pretty sure Biden isn’t inspiring women of any flavor. Old white men, sure.

  79. 79
    Bill Arnold says:

    If anyone wants a toy, here’s a comment generator trained on hacker news. You can feed it any text; it doesn’t do a great job on snippets from the redacted Mueller report but it’s crazy funny on clickbait. So far I haven’t seen anything that could pass for human when read by a thinking human but it’s getting closer.
    Please don’t use it here. :-) OK sample, using OP title as input: “The fact that all of the big minions have been made by Trump makes sense. All of his minions are manufactured by the American people (according to the article). “

  80. 80
    grubert says:


    Invisible is not strict, and I would never call Mueller foolish. He’s doubtlessly more savvy then any of the rest of them. That doesn’t make him politically unbiased.

    After Fitzmas, and Freeh, and Comey and so forth, I’m suspicious of “The Last Honest Lawman” claims.

  81. 81
    Ruckus says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    I’m going with all of the above.

  82. 82
    sukabi says:

    @Ruckus: Guiliani is as dirty as drumpf. His “failure to see” is a bit of self preservative delusion.

  83. 83
    Amir Khalid says:

    I think it’s also possible Rudy believes his best bet right now is to have a … selective memory, shall we say, of the US Constitution

  84. 84
    grubert says:


    Some of my right wing relatives think anything the Republicans do is justified because the Demonrats covered up Clinton’s lying, corruption,drug smuggling and murders.

    Which is the best reason to gin up as many false scandals as you can. Preemptive accusations are a great defense.

    But it really only works if you own the megaphone.

  85. 85
    Mart says:


    They care about power, not reputation. They’ll take all the mockery the left has to offer as long as enough people on our side ensure their continued rule.

    They also love punching down on “the others”, and Trump does this better than any other major pol..

  86. 86
    Ruckus says:

    And not even all of the old white men.
    Going to be difficult to be elected this time around if your only voting group is the old white men that don’t think DT is the one. And I doubt that Biden wants to be the spoiler next year……

  87. 87
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    Can’t stress this enough: the Russians set up a troll account made to look like an particularly racist, Klan-friendly state chapter of the GOP. The confirmation bias conspiracy fantasies it was selling were so popular it got mindlessly retweeted by near everyone in Trump’s circle

    That sort of sums it up the Russian’s effort.

  88. 88
    NotMax says:

    @West of the Rockies

    ¿Por que no todos?

  89. 89
    Ruckus says:

    @Amir Khalid:
    Seems to me that Rudy is no longer capable of making those kinds of distinctions. If he ever was. Which I also rather doubt.

  90. 90
    rikyrah says:

    skeptical brotha 🌈 (@skepticalbrotha) Tweeted:
    I’ve lived nearly 48 years in the United States in a Black body. The White denialism we’re seeing regarding Trump’s corruption, incompetence, mendacity, and white supremacy is supposedly not normal, but the unimpeachable fact of the matter is that its the status quo.

  91. 91
    Gin & Tonic says:

    One last note on the Ukrainian election, before I head out – now both the President-elect and the Prime Minister are Jewish. Kind of deflates the Russian propaganda about how it’s all Nazis and anti-Semites in Ukraine.

  92. 92
    Ruckus says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques:
    When you want to troll someone you go with their worse traits and support those, because that gives the trollees permission to believe those traits.

  93. 93
    rikyrah says:


    The Hill (@thehill) Tweeted:
    Pete Buttigieg speaks in Plymouth, NH: “Normal wasn’t working for a lot of people. A lot of people voted the way they did in order to send a message about what they think normal has done to them.”

    Wakandan War Dog (@Kennymack1971) Tweeted:
    Normal was a black family in the WH.

    Normal was expanded access to healthcare.

    Normal was a President respected around the world.

    So yeah….whatever Pete.

  94. 94
    sukabi says:

    @Enhanced Voting Techniques: I’m not convinced that they (drumpf & inner circle) were in the dark about the origins of those accounts. It’s awfully convenient how quickly the crap from them was spread via drumpf and co.

    The folks being duped by them weren’t in the drumpf campaign.

  95. 95
    rikyrah says:

    Stephen Moran (@smoran26) Tweeted:
    An article worth reading.

    The #2020Election will be a race war

    It’s white nationalism vs everyone else

    To the Dem candidates – if you can’t tell the truth about what’s happening in America – you won’t win the white house.

  96. 96
    NotMax says:

    @Gin & Tonic

    Then again, electing as president someone who headlined in a popular television show…


  97. 97
    PJ says:

    Only slightly OT but very important: This article and TED talk by Carole Cadwalladr of the Observor summarize how Facebook was an active and willing participant in spreading disinformation, via illegal advertising, for the Brexit Leave vote and how it refused to cooperate in British investigations subsequently:

    If Facebook is not stopped, it will do the same thing in the 2020 election to help Trump and the Republicans win. It’s not going to happen with a Republican Congress, but Facebook has to be either extremely heavily regulated, broken up, or shut down.

  98. 98
    James E Powell says:


    The ones I’ve encountered are in complete denial. The Mueller investigation was a complete fraud/witch hunt, and Barr’s upcoming investigation will reveal the conspiracy.

    Wandering into somebody’s twitter feed I discovered a very large number of RWers assuring all of us libtards that Hillary, Obama, and Eric Holder will all soon be in prison for long list of cries including conspiring with the Russians to create the illusion that the Russians were supporting Trump in order to undermine his greatness.

  99. 99
    Another Scott says:

    @Gin & Tonic: Can we pin this comment to the Front Page for when Bob in Portlandia comes back? Thanks!!1


  100. 100
    JAFD says:

    @Amir Khalid: The Everton fans amongst we jackals are rather chuffed, tho.
    Regardless, happy Easter / Passover / Spring Festival Of Your Choice to everyone!

  101. 101
    rikyrah says:

    Blank Slate (@blankslate2017) Tweeted:
    @tomwatson @reesetheone1 Hearings w/out the credible threat of impeachment,mean little. Simplest way to frame it: Hearings are about Congress confirming that Mueller’s findings merit prosecution after Trump leaves office.. That’s not controversial. That’s what an impeachment vote is when GOP won’t remove

  102. 102
    Mnemosyne says:

    I am getting quite irritated with the various Tweeters who insist that Nancy Pelosi was supposed to pull half-baked Articles of Impeachment out of her ass over a holiday weekend just to make them feel good.

    Why they think the House should instantly turn everything over to Mitch McConnell rather than doing several months of public hearings and investigations first is beyond me.

  103. 103
    rikyrah says:

    Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) Tweeted:
    Elijah Cummings says that even if the House moves to impeach Trump and the Senate votes against it, “history would smile upon us for standing up for the Constitution.”
    Via CBS

  104. 104
    rikyrah says:

    Tom Watson (@tomwatson) Tweeted:
    Folks, Mueller doesn’t matter all that much anymore. He’s Leon Jaworski now. We shouldn’t focus all that much on him. (And yes, he wasn’t up to the challenge in some crucial aspects, unfortunately). Let’s take his name off this thing. What we need now are the witnesses.

  105. 105
    Baud says:


    I don’t understand why he’s still talking about 2016.

  106. 106
    West of the Rockies says:

    I kind of think of Biden as sort of a Democratic Bob Dole: old guy, paid his dues, has no real vision for the country, but who sort of demands he run. YMMV.

    I hope it is Harris or Warren who gets elected.

  107. 107
    Mnemosyne says:


    Sorry, but I think BlankSlate has hold of the wrong end of the stick here. The hearings are to put some evidence behind the Articles of Impeachment.

    IANAL, but as I understand it, the House essentially acts as a grand jury that decides if charges should be brought, and then the actual trial happens in the Senate. Why exactly is the House not supposed to prepare their case prior to voting on the Articles of Impeachment?

  108. 108
    Ruckus says:

    He certainly is deluded. And it seems that it isn’t that difficult to delude him, or for him to delude himself, that has been going on for a long time.

  109. 109
    Harbison says:

    And to think that some people assumed Jared wasn’t smart enough to get into Harvard on his own merits …

  110. 110
    Gravenstone says:

    @smintheus: Pretty much.The look on Trump’s face is askIng what the joke was. The joke was you, Donnie.

  111. 111
    PJ says:

    @Mnemosyne: @rikyrah: I don’t understand these people who are against impeachment. It’s 19 months until the 2020 elections. House Democrats should use the Mueller Report as a basis to investigate every filthy thing Trump, the Republicans, and the Russians have been up to, including all of Trump’s frauds and money laundering. Get it all out in the open, get the hearings on TV, and never stop hammering away at the corruption. If it’s the best way to do it, the impeachment vote can be held a few weeks before the election, and the Senate trial can be held after it. But, as Cummings implies, the Constitution cannot survive if this kind of corruption is allowed to go undisclosed and unchecked.

  112. 112
    West of the Rockies says:

    For about a week, it really felt like we were being gaslighted: Mueller’s report found nothing actionable, show’s over, move along…

    We may not get Trump and Jr and Kushner being frog-marched to prison, but I imagine that despite their money, they all will suffer in various ways. A dyspepsia of the soul… I wish they would all know hard-scrabble poverty, humiliation, and misery–AND know that they were the authors of their circumstances.

    A lad can hope…

  113. 113
    West of the Rockies says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Dammit… Should have said “…whose ego demands he run.”

  114. 114
    Chyron HR says:


    But unemployment was FIVE PER CENT! Obviously the poor downtrodden whites had no choice but to let a nazi rapist destroy civilization.

  115. 115
    Mnemosyne says:


    I think there’s a couple of things going on:

    (1) There’s this weird myth that impeaching Bill Clinton hurt the Republicans, so no one should ever be impeached again. But the reason the Clinton impeachment hurt Republicans was that it was obviously trumped-up bullshit, which is not the case here.

    (2) People don’t remember the process. It took Republicans about 4 months to prepare the Articles of Impeachment for Clinton once the Starr report was released. Preparing Trump’s impeachment will take at least as long.

    Everyone wants impeachment to be instantaneous. It ain’t.

  116. 116
    Lyrebird says:

    Thank you.

    This commenter is on fire in the best sense:
    Bianca Delarosa is not too stupid to prosecute @Bravewriting

    [ETA: click over if you want to read what she said, the rest is just my own opinion.]

    There’s a lot that I like about Mayor Pete, but that statement both erases the non-white people going through economic anxiety and gives cover to the well-off Republicans who went in and pulled the lever for the criminal now occupying the WH. Yes, team broken glass and all, I will campaign for him if he gets the nom, but no I don’t want to be a white person who lets that lie go by quietly.

    I wish one of the good polling firms would do a ranked-choice poll.

  117. 117
    West of the Rockies says:


    Hearings which would be richly embarrassing for the administration.

  118. 118
    Ruckus says:

    Instant gratification. Many like the idea that things just happen.
    Too many people no longer have to make things, there’s fast food, prepared foods, no iron clothing, their job is working on a computer…….
    How many people on this blog under say 60 physically make things, especially for a living? I make things every day and work with young people who do the same. But they have machines that do a lot of the work that used to be done by hand, machines that use code to make things. You can walk away from those machines when they are working. It isn’t the same idea when you seldom actually see the work that goes into making something even if it is an inconsequential thing. You go to the store, you buy something. Many probably don’t even know someone who makes physical things. They move paper or electrons and that’s their world. They don’t make steel or build houses or cars.

  119. 119
    Mnemosyne says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    A whole lot of the redactions in the report are because those people are part of ongoing legal cases.

    I fully expect more indictments to be handed down in the next few months or weeks.

  120. 120
    PJ says:

    @Mnemosyne: And because the charges against Trump are not trumped up BS, and are so voluminous (including many matters, such as fraud, money laundering, violations of the emoluments clause, national security violations, etc., which are outside the scope of the Mueller investigation), I would imagine it will take much longer than four months to prepare Articles of Impeachment. And in the meantime, Articles of Impeachment can also be prepared for Barr and Senator Burr, who was apparently passing confidential information regarding the investigation to the Trump Administration.

  121. 121
    Jay says:


    This is a political blog, there are great writers here, process gets covered, and even some commenters here, don’t “understand” Impeachment.

    Too many people believe that Impeachment is just a yes/no vote in the House followed by yes/no vote in the Senate.

  122. 122
    debbie says:


    Seconded. Talking about impeachment before we even see the full report and are armed with absolute facts is misguided. Dan Rather was so sure he had the goods on Bush’s military record, and then …

  123. 123
    Ruckus says:

    Most of those people aren’t against impeachment. I believe I replied to a comment of yours about just that. It’s the instant concept that so many have. There are steps to take, timing is important to making it work and work well. A case has to be built, not just believed to be true. The case sent to the senate has to be overwhelming, public support has to be there so that even if the senate doesn’t convict, the public is convinced and that costs senators their jobs for not doing the right thing. This is our government, the people’s government, they work for us, we supposedly get to vote them in or out based upon what they do or don’t do. If the senate doesn’t convict you want it to be ironclad that they fucked the dog on this. That takes time and effort. Not spending that time will be dereliction of the house’s duty. So my comments about this is not the right time for impeachment, there is work to be done first, is what that is all about.
    It’s not no impeachment, it’s for fucks sake get it right.

  124. 124
    West of the Rockies says:


    Make it so, #1!

  125. 125

    @rikyrah: Baby BS says whut?

    ETA: Also too, T voters are not going to vote for the polite racist when the real deal is on the ballot.

    ETA2: Just shut the fuck up PB, in all the fucking languages you know.

  126. 126

    @Baud: Because his idol was robbed by the witch HRC in 2016, that’s why

  127. 127
    PJ says:

    @Ruckus: I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said (which is mostly what I’ve said), but when people like Steny Hoyer say “no impeachment,” or, believing it to be politically astute, say “no impeachment, because the Senate will not convict and it will make Trump look good”, I take them at their word. Of course, the investigation leading up to the impeachment vote will be long, detailed, and public, and must be as strong as possible – that’s the whole point of it. And if it is done well, some of the Republican Senators who are standing firm on Trump now may start to cave when they see their seats at risk.

    ETA: I mean, just a week ago, many prominent journalists and publications were proclaiming that Trump was exonerated by the Mueller Report, before anyone but Barr had seen it. The Democrats have a long row to hoe to get the message out about the extent of the crimes committed.

  128. 128
    gene108 says:


    There are people, who want impeachment NOW!!!

    Hearings shmeerings…

    They feel there’s enough out there to gut Trump, and anything short of immediate impeachment is chickening out and letting fascists win.

    They don’t understand we can have hearings now to build an air tight case for impeachment later.

  129. 129
    Aleta says:

    Elie Mystal @ElieNYC
    If you think the Trump should be impeached, the most impactful thing you can do today might be to throw $20 bucks to @ewarren.
    You don’t need to pledge her your vote. But show the Dems that her stance will be rewarded with *cash*, and other Dems might find the courage to follow.

    Or $5 or $7 or

  130. 130
    piratedan says:

    @Mnemosyne: my only issue with those items still in play is if Barr just dismisses those cases out of hand because of “reasons”. Let’s face it, he’s about as unethical as it comes when it comes to providing cover and aiding and abetting crimes committed by Republicans. With all the focus on Trump, slipping something like this on a full news day would be just his style.

    I understand that it may be wholly illegal for him to do so, but lately the GOP has shown itself as pretty much antithetical when it comes to “rules”, much less “laws”.

  131. 131
    Jay says:


    We know that Meuller “protected” the current ongoing criminal cases from interferance by Barr,

    Why wouldn’t he also protect the others?

  132. 132
    Ruckus says:

    It’s possible that your comments have come off like you are talking about people on BJ not wanting impeachment.
    A lot of those people, not on BJ, not wanting impeachment are Trump supporters, even if they aren’t rabid supporters. Hoyer is I think just looking not to make waves, it will all work out in the end, or some bullshit like that. And as someone up thread pointed out the last time we had an impeachment was so bogus that the republicans couldn’t even make it come close. All but their rabid supporters were at best, “who gives a shit?” and they failed miserably.
    Realize that it’s not just the senate that has to be convinced. You need to get as many non rabid supporters of the impeached politician on your side as possible, to sway the swayable senators. Or even to maybe change some of the non-swayable ones into swayable.

  133. 133
    piratedan says:

    @Jay: I would like to assume so as well Jay, the thing is, I haven’t heard anyone say just that (and I have been watching, but perhaps not in the right places). Considering that the guys who live under the rocks never seem to leave any angle uncovered, I am simply looking for reassurance. After all, the propensity of the media to live in the GOP makes the rules land, always tends to make me feel uneasy, more so with their nomination of judges who only have a passing acquaintance with the law.

  134. 134
    oatler. says:

    @germy: There was also a strip whose name I can’t remember that featured an unbalanced wife who was obsessed by biting the ears off of her family’s chocolate bunnies.

  135. 135
    Ruckus says:

    Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Mueller called out the blockers, people like Barr, as doing illegal tampering/obstruction with a legally mandated investigation? I doubt he’d ever do that, but with the report out there, if congress gets it’s hands on the full report and people like Barr continue to obstruct………

  136. 136
    germy says:

    I started a new drinking game.

    I drink a shot every time Trump tells truth…

    I've been sober for 2 years now.

    — Akki (@Akki_J2) April 21, 2019

  137. 137
    Jay says:


    That’s because Meuller doesn’t leak, so all we know about the other cases, from the Redacted Meuller Report, is that they exist,

    And Meuller is still working.

    So, I’d side with optimism, rather than twisting up more guts worrying that Meuller’s other “run silent, run deep” cases and investigations have or will be sunk.

  138. 138
    Ruckus says:

    Now that’s funny not at all wrong.

  139. 139
    Ruckus says:

    The one above that one is good as well.
    Adolf Hitler : “Jews aren’t people they’re rats.”

    Donald Trump : “Immigrants aren’t people, they’re animals.”


  140. 140
    germy says:

    @Ruckus: He’s the one that tweeted the cat using sign language with his human. One of the frontpagers posted it a few days ago

  141. 141
    Kathleen says:

    @rikyrah: Brilliant observation and so true.

  142. 142
    Harbison says:


    You have to look at it in context. A week or so before the Mueller report dropped, Nancy Pelosi said that Trump “was not worth” impeachment, or words to that effect.

    This, of course, was a colossally stupid thing to say. (And, yes, I know that she also said – I think in the same interview – that she wanted to see the report first, but she either knew what the soundbite would be.) But people have convinced themselves that Pelosi is a fantastic tactician, took this as a signal and then spent the next couple of weeks backfilling in all of the reasons why her “analysis” was a brilliant bit of political insight: it will hurt dems in 2020; yes, he isn’t “worth it” because it will just give him attention [seriously people said this]; it will distract from some pet political issue; etc.)

    So, here we are. Fortunately Warren, and Cummings and a quite a few other politicians who actually are smart are coming out for commencing impeachment proceedings, so the tide is turning against Pelosi’s idiotic judgement.

    The house should undertake a thorough and fair investigation using the Mueller report as their springboard. They may find additional damaging information. But no matter what, there is no political downside to combing through everything Trump has been doing. Hell, remember the emoluments clause? Aren’t the American people entitled to know exactly how much corporations and foreign governments have paid Donald Trump? And what is the downside to having this lead the news cycle every couple of weeks as hearings take place?

    Obviously, right now, the Senate would not remove Trump. But this is very much beside the point.

    If the choice is between Elijiah Cummings political judgment and sense of justice and that of Nancy Pelosi, I’m team Elijiah all the way.

  143. 143
    tobie says:

    I’m willing to wait a bit for impeachment hearings to commence till we have some high profile hearings and either the release of the Mueller report or Barr’s obstruction broadcast on every cable news show and natl and local papers. Trump’s base won’t turn against him but low info/disinterested voters might pivot if they start to hear how damning the Mueller report is. Right now they think both sides are spinning

  144. 144
    Jay says:


    I’m pretty sure that we would find out about the “blockers” interfering by Meuller laying charges and idictments, were it enough to fall into the criminal level,

    And if it’s not enough to fall into the proveable crime level, then from Meuller at a House Hearing.

    Because ReThugs have “tried cases in the Media”, for so long, that’s how many people think the system is worked.

    But that’s not how you do it. You drop your bombshells in Court or in Hearing Testimony, you don’t leak half assed allegations to Chuck Todd.

    That’s how the ReThugs played the game with Bengazhi!!!!!!!!!, leak “bombshells” to the Media, only to have them turn out to be nothingburger at the Hearings.

    It did not turn out well. They “convinced” the Wingnut base, and nobody else. And all that time and effort was spent “convincing” people who didn’t need to be convinced, they would have just taken it on faith and like Good Germans, dutifly followed orderz.

  145. 145
    opiejeanne says:

    @West of the Rockies: Hard-scrabble poverty might be too much for them to appreciate what has happened to them.. A level of income right at the point of poverty, right at that dividing line so they understand what the working poor endure. And make them work for that. I’d like to see Ivanka sewing her own clothing line in a sweat shop, doing piece work. Trump could be a greeter at WalMart. The two useless sons should be forced to shovel pig shit. Jared can just go to prison and make license plates.

  146. 146
    opiejeanne says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yes! The people (supposedly, could be trolls) on the Left yelling about Nancy being useless because she didn’t start the impeachment process on Thursday evening are idiots.

  147. 147
    Eric U. says:

    @Mnemosyne: it took forever for the House to get Nixon to resign. They started in February 1974 and voted to approve the first article of impeachment in July. then he resigned in August. But the break in was first linked to Nixon in ’72.

  148. 148
  149. 149

    @opiejeanne: People like the Trumps are never allowed to fall into poverty. Their rich friends support them.

  150. 150
    tobie says:

    @tobie: release of the ‘unredacted’ Mueller report…typing on a phone is tough.

  151. 151
    opiejeanne says:

    @oatler.: Sally Forth.

  152. 152
    Emerald says:

    @rikyrah: Yeah, I spent several days really entranced with Mayor Pete. He seemed a true breath fresh air and actually answered, thoughtfully, the actual questions he was asked, instead of just using the pre-written response du jour.

    Plus, he thinks on his feet and manages some good snappy comebacks. The guy has serious talent.

    But his continuing efforts to find excuses for the trumpers has lost me.

    Get over that, Mayor Pete, and I’ll give you a second look for the future.

  153. 153
    joel hanes says:


    I don’t understand these people who are against impeachment.

    IMHO, almost no Dems are actually against impeachment at some point.

    The brainless are demanding impeachment today,
    at a time when denial is still running at full tide among Republicans.

    Those with both competence and long experience are planning to use the multiple independent House investigations to drive Trump into a very small corner first, while running out the clock for the 2020 election.
    Maximum effect at the most critical time is what we need.
    This is not that time.

    I think this all peaked a bit early, and it would be better for the Dem’s prospects if the peak disclosures of Trump’s inept lawlessness and perfidy were to come out about a year from now, but one works with what one has.

  154. 154
    eclare says:

    @Major Major Major Major: What a gorgeous day!

  155. 155
    patrick II says:


    Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Mueller called out the blockers, people like Barr, as doing illegal tampering/obstruction with a legally mandated investigation?

    I don’t see Mueller doing something like that. Mueller’s strength is that he only colors inside the lines, his weakness is that he only colors inside the lines. Barr is the new Attorney General and the rules say the Atty General Rules.

    Mueller is most likely to have an affect if he is questioned at a congressional hearing. Congress has a constitutional right to ask, and he will see that as justification to color inside of those lines.
    Ask good questions Adam.

  156. 156
    zhena gogolia says:

    @joel hanes:

    You and I are on the same page. And much as I like Warren, I think it is not for the presidential candidates (especially senators) to get out in front on this issue. Harris is taking a better line.

  157. 157
    joel hanes says:

    @Chyron HR:

    To be scrupulously fair, young people in urban areas do have a very tough row to hoe, and their whole-life prospects are less bright than were the prospects for young white males back when I was a member of that category. Even under Obama of blessed memory.

    College costs have become horrifyingly high, and housing is out of reach in many urban and suburban markets, and the mass-employment living-wage opportunities have been draining from our economy for over thirty years.

    So there are legitimate gripes, which I think Buttigieg was attempting to address.
    Not sure he was taking any kind of swipe at Obama.

    But although I like Mayor Pete, I’d prefer that someone else is the nominee.

  158. 158
    Harbison says:


    Trump got, what 48% of the popular vote and Clinton got 52? Give or take.

    Trump’s “base” is about 30%. No sane democrat is ever going to get their vote. The other 18% are possibly reachable. Even if only 10% of that 18% are reachable, that is huge.

    Anyone who says that you should not spend any effort reaching out to Trump voters is a fucking moron. Many of them are the same idiots who think that [insert your favorite intersectional race/sex group here] are the key to the election when they make up something like 5 or 10% of votors.

    Yes, OBVIOUSLY, you have to do it without compromising any principles but I’ve yet to see anything that Mayor Pete has said that indicated a compromise of a key democrat tenet.

  159. 159
    zhena gogolia says:

    We watched The Verdict (1982) last night. I had never watched it all the way through from the beginning. It really struck me how much it is about white (rich, male) privilege. Amazing that Mamet could write that screenplay — I guess he hadn’t gone nutty yet. Or maybe it’s from the novel it’s based on, which I haven’t read. Brilliant screenplay, brilliant movie, and so resonant today. Paul Newman’s summation sounds as if it’s talking about the Mueller report!

  160. 160
    Chris T. says:

    Since this is an open thread …

    The California ISO app shows that right now, in the 1 to 2 PM hour ahead wholesale electric energy market, electricity costs negative ten dollars per megawatt hour. This is the same price it was in the previous hour. That means if you are a wholesale buyer, you earn—not pay, earn—ten bucks every time you drain a megawatt from the grid for an hour. PG&E does this and sells it to us retail suckers for $250+ per megawatt-hour. And yet, PG&E is going bankrupt. This is positively Trumpian levels of incompetence.

    (Admittedly, during other times of the day and at night, PG&E actually pays for their energy. And yes, it does cost them some money—about $50-60 per MWh—to collect it from the wholesalers and deliver it to retail customers, but that means that when they charge us $250, and pay the more typical $70, they’re still earning over $120 per MWh. They bring in revenues of about 16 billion dollars a year this way.)

  161. 161
    joel hanes says:


    I am glad that Nancy Pelosi, the best whip-counter the Dems have ever had, is the Speaker of the House and you are not.

    Nancy Pelosi put Elijah Cummings and Nadler and Maxine Waters at the heads of those committees, and made sure they had committee members like AOC and Katie Porter. She did this with intent.


  162. 162
    zhena gogolia says:

    @zhena gogolia:

    I’m not alone:

    “So much of the time we’re just lost. We say, ‘Please God, tell us what is right. Tell us what is true. And there is no justice. The rich win. The poor are powerless. We become tired of hearing people lie. And after a time we become dead. We think of ourselves as victims. And we become victims. We become weak. We doubt ourselves. We doubt our beliefs, we doubt our institutions, and we doubt the law. But today, you are the law. You are the law. Not some book. Not the lawyers. Not the marble statue or the trappings of the court. These are just symbols of our desire to be just. They are in fact a prayer, a fervent kind of frightened prayer. In my religion, they say act as if we have faith. Faith will be given to you. If we are to have faith in justice, we need only to believe in ourselves and act with justice. I believe there is justice in our hearts.”

  163. 163
    UncleEbeneezer says:

    @Mnemosyne: Yup. Just wrote this on FB:

    Oh look, all the people on the Left who NEVER miss an opportunity to bash Democrats are now using the Mueller Report and the fact that Dems haven’t immediately removed Trump from office to (checks notes)…bash Democrats. What a shock? Must be another day ending in “Y.” 😂

  164. 164
    trnc says:


    Some of my right wing relatives think anything the Republicans do is justified because the Demonrats covered up Clinton’s lying, corruption,drug smuggling and murders.

    This would probably just bring about more SMH-ing, but have you ever asked them why Clinton hasn’t been indicted for anything, or why she apparently isn’t currently being investigated?

  165. 165
    evodevo says:

    @PJ: Yes. This. thanks for this…

  166. 166
    joel hanes says:


    The two useless sons should be forced to shovel pig shit.

    I actually feel sorry for Eric, who has always been found inadequate for everything.

    I know a guy whose younger brother is that way: just doesn’t have the wherewithal to meet the family norms, and the continual comparative failure has twisted him into a bitte4 and misanthrope. It’s a shame. And being the object of pity becomes absolutely damnable after a while.

  167. 167

    Let’s get Mueller in front of a committee and see what he’s got to say. Then we’ll knowa lot more where we stand re:impeachment.

  168. 168
    Jay says:

    @joel hanes:

    Yup. People don’t realize that the process of Impeachment has already started, and that one of the rolls of AOC and others, is to move the Overton window on Impeachment by from time to time, putting the word out there while the Commitee’s do their work.

  169. 169
    patrick II says:

    Mayor Pete is right to point out that people voted for Trump for other than reasons of pure racism. I think some comments here are playing the republican game of finger pointing at everybody but the the top 1%. Yes, minorities have it worse than white people, but white people have it worse than they did 20 years ago, and that is their measuring stick.
    Particularly in rural counties, which have outsize political impact, middle and lower class whites are not doing well economically.
    Stop playing the game of pointing at everyone except those who are scripting this story through owned media outlets — the very rich conservatives .

  170. 170
    trnc says:


    Realize that it’s not just the senate that has to be convinced. You need to get as many non rabid supporters of the impeached politician on your side as possible, to sway the swayable senators. Or even to maybe change some of the non-swayable ones into swayable.

    I believe there is almost zero chance that the senate would convict. Before the report dropped, I didn’t support impeachment for that reason. Now that we have the report, even the redacted version shows a lot of actions that make most people say, “Why the hell isn’t he in prison yet?” This makes it much trickier for republicans to just blow off the majority of eligible voters, so I’m coming around to impeach because it’s the right thing to do, regardless of the outcome in the senate.

  171. 171
    Harbison says:

    @patrick II:

    Sorry to nitpick but I think the more accurate statement here would be “some people voted for Trump other than reasons of pure racism.”

    Otherwise dead on.

  172. 172
    patrick II says:


    I thought was obvious, but reading back it’s not. Thanx.

  173. 173
    Mnemosyne says:

    @joel hanes:

    Something about this troll’s writing style seems quite familiar. I think ARBG is back among us with a new nym since he got himself banhammered under his most recent one. 🤔

    (This comment kept getting nuked until I realized why I couldn’t post “B——y P—-e.”)

  174. 174
    trnc says:


    Anyone who says that you should not spend any effort reaching out to Trump voters is a fucking moron.

    I don’t think any dem candidates should explicitly reach out to DT voters, but I do think they should state clearly that their policies will help all voters, including the ones who will never vote for them. This kind of statement should be in every single speech, along with one saying that he or she will never introduce or support a policy that is designed explicitly to hurt voters who will never vote for them. Also, call out professional republicans every chance they get, but never put down DT’s voters. That was what I considered to be Hillary’s only real mistake in the campaign, even though I knew what she meant.

  175. 175
    rikyrah says:

    @West of the Rockies:
    Of course, we would. Because, we are patriots and not traitors. WE are the ones who get up everyday trying to push for ‘A more perfect union ‘

    PS- don’t kid yourself.
    IF…this had been 44…
    And ……
    If All we had known was what we knew by DECEMBER 2016…


  176. 176
    Chyron HR says:

    @joel hanes:

    Hey, cool, except Mayor Mayor Mayor Mayor isn’t talking about any urban people, he’s talking about the Red State Real American Trump Worshiping Master Race. And he, like Bernie, is totally allowed to base his entire campaign on courting their votes, I just hope that, unlike Bernie, he won’t cry “rigged” when he finds out that the Democratic primary is actually full of Democratic voters.

  177. 177
    tobie says:

    @Chyron HR: I recently came across this tweet regarding the mayor, which matched my sentiments:


    Follow Follow @alexiskrenz
    Replying to @tomwatson
    You’re shocked that the guy that dissed Hillary, used his announcement speech to tweak Harris/Klobuchar/Booker (“looking good in cmt mtgs”) & makes jokes abt Beto… is attacking a fellow candidate? It’s his MO. Just add Sanders to the ever-growing list.

  178. 178
    gene108 says:


    This makes it much trickier for republicans to just blow off the majority of eligible voters,

    Senators are elected by the state they represent. Deep Red states will back Trump to the death. I doubt McConnell will be in trouble with Kentucky voters, if he refuses to even allow the Senate to hold a trial, assuming the House passes articles of impeachment

  179. 179
    Bonnie says:

    I really and truly hate twitter.

  180. 180
    Jay says:


    Given the median lenght of investigations, hearings, drafting up the Indictment, ReThug stalling, the process of the House and the Vote,

    It’s most likely that the Impeachment Vote in the Senate would be taken by the Seated 2020 Senate, which might not be a ReThug Senate.

  181. 181
    TomatoQueen says:

    @zhena gogolia: Snort. Never watch The Verdict while seated next to a criminal trial attorney.In fact don’t watch any movie about a trial of any kind while seated next to a criminal trial attorney, most especially one who is my ex-husband. Still, it’s one of his best performances.

  182. 182
    karen marie says:

    @Baud: I second that motion.

  183. 183

    @tobie: You are misunderstanding the poor dear, it all makes sense if you look at the context, or so say his fan club. They will be here shortly to tell you how mistaken you are.

  184. 184
    Harbison says:


    Hmmmm… I don’t know if its a good tactic to explicitly reach out to Trump voters, as in “Hey, all you folks that voted for Trump, you should vote for me this time because ….” but I to think that democrats have to fight for every vote they have a plausible chance of getting.

    Coalitions – even if unwitting coalitions – win elections

  185. 185

    @Chyron HR: was Hillary wrong when she said that not every trump supporter was deplorable, and in fact many were reachable?

  186. 186
    NotMax says:


    The electoral college doesn’t meet as a unit. The electors designated by way of the vote and confirmed after the election by each state’s governor meet in their respective states and transit Certificates of Vote to the President of the Senate by registered mail. The meetings in each state are mandated by law (Chapter 1 of Title 3, United States Code). Refusal to meet would be patently illegal, most likely resulting in the disqualification of any such electors, in which case new ones are appointed as per each state’s laws dictate (usually by each state’s legislature).

  187. 187
    West of the Rockies says:


    Good point. Damn Republicans soiled their undies because PBO likes a certain kind of mustard on his hotdog and wore a tan suit.

    Sometimes when I see a clip of Obama speaking, it all feels horribly surreal. How did we go from the grace and humanity of 44 to this bloated, greedy pig-man today?

  188. 188
    zhena gogolia says:


    Yes, I’m sure attorneys love trial movies just about as much as professors love scenes of college classes in movies.

  189. 189
    zhena gogolia says:


    I don’t know why you always have to be so snotty about this.

    There’s no “fan club.” It’s all in your mind.

  190. 190
    tobie says:

    @schrodingers_cat: It’s fine if he wants to reach out to independent and Republican voters by showing how his ideas will benefit the country. I’m really a-okay with that, but he shouldn’t be reaching out to independents and Republicans at the expense of fellow Democrats. That’s what bothers me. I’ve heard him criticize HRC for supposedly making the campaign all about herself (says the candidate whose campaign bumper sticker is his name); Obama for not being bold enough; Democrats for only paying attention to coastal elites; and anyone who’s not a millennial for have created a politics of sniping. I’m identified with enough of those categories to feel alienated by his campaign.

  191. 191
    Ruckus says:

    I refuse to shop at wally world. Now I understand that really isn’t always an option depending on where you live but it has been for me so…. But let’s look at this objectively from wally worlds position, if you walked up to one and DT greeted you, would you walk in if you had any other choice whatsoever?

  192. 192
    Sab says:

    @zhena gogolia: On the other hand, I love Adam Scott’s accountant in Parks and Recreation. He’s just so enthusiastic about his work when everyone else thinks it’s boring. He always looks so puzzled when they laugh at his job.

  193. 193
    NotMax says:

    @zhena gogolia

    Gasp. You mean Paper Chase wasn’t a documentary? Or, cosmos forfend, Good News?

    Yet more bubbles burst.


  194. 194
    Bill Arnold says:

    @Major Major Major Major:
    The BBG is sweet in the Spring. You might want to go when the roses are blooming as well. (Guessing early June but they have a calendar.)
    I looked at every flower (species) in the yard with a hand lens today, even the tiny ones. Spring! Everything is unfolding, again.

  195. 195
    J R in WV says:


    Facebook was an active and willing participant in spreading disinformation, via illegal advertising, for the Brexit Leave vote and how it refused to cooperate in British investigations subsequently…

    If Facebook is not stopped, it will do the same thing in the 2020 election to help Trump and the Republicans win. It’s not going to happen with a Republican Congress, but Facebook has to be either extremely heavily regulated, broken up, or shut down.

    I agree with this. Shut down, in my book. I installed ad-blocker security on my new laptop, and they also block so called “tracker” tools many commercial sites upload to your broswer. The most ubiquitous tracker is from “Facebook” which wound up on every web page, ever.

    I’m not a member of Facebook. I have never agreed to their Terms of Service — yet they believe they can track my web behavior?? Nope! If I were rich, I’l be suing them for billions, and doing all I could to raise public hell about their intrusive and illegal behavior.

    Facebook should be called Fascist-Book, in my opinion. Zuckerburg is only interested in money and power, and will never do anything to lower his income or reduce his control over the Web. The Law means no more to Z’burg than it does to Trump or Putin. I won’t use it even as much as I do Twitter, which I only browse from links y’all post here.

  196. 196
    geg6 says:


    Yep. Not even a little bit of a fan at this point. I find him condescending and quite full of himself. Plus, Andrew Sullivan is practically pissing his pants in ecstasies over him. Not a good sign. Not my cup of tea.

  197. 197
    Ruckus says:

    @patrick II:
    You are right, which is why that would be such a shock and surprise if he did this. It would mean he puts country ahead of his political leanings. Which I think he’s already doing to the full extent he can, given who he seems to be. This would be way out of character for him. He seems to me to be what the republicans from 60 yrs ago thought they were, an honorable person, the law is most important. And the law is important, the actual future of the country, that it exists, that it can get better, that it can serve the needs of the people is even more so. The laws are supposed to dictate what we can and can not do towards that end, not suppress the ability to get towards that end.

  198. 198
    West of the Rockies says:


    Not to start a fight (oh, who am I kidding?), but what do y’all think was the worst lawyer show as far as the actual courtroom stuff goes?

    Off the top of my head, I’d say maybe Ally McBeal.

  199. 199
    zhena gogolia says:


    We all do the Varsity Rag at the drop of a hat.

  200. 200
  201. 201
    zhena gogolia says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Perry Mason?

    ETA: “I did it! I did it!”

  202. 202
    debbie says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    The Practice? L.A. Law?

  203. 203
    Sab says:

    Yeah. Didn’t they always fully try the cases in the preliminary hearing?

    ETA responding to the Perry Mason comment.

  204. 204
    West of the Rockies says:

    Bottom line, for me, I’m glad Pete is on the team. I don’t think he’s ready to QB. He is just 37. I’d like more governmental experience. That’s part of why I so like Harris and Warren.

    By my standard, Biden might seem an option, but the man would be 78 once he took office; that strikes me as, shall we say, too seasoned. As ever, YMMV.

    I won’t, however, trash either because I think they (Pete in particular) may yet be of great service.

  205. 205
    zhena gogolia says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    I won’t, however, trash either because I think they (Pete in particular) may yet be of great service.

    This is my point. We shouldn’t be trashing any of them (except the non-Democrat). I’m not in anybody’s fan club yet, although I favor Harris. But I’m not interested in cherry-picking quotations in order to “eliminate” people.

  206. 206
    Ruckus says:

    @Chris T.:
    And how much do they spend for their employees and trucks and, and, and…..
    I’ve owned two businesses. One a mfg and one retail. One thing you learn is that you only sell at a loss if you have some offsetting rational reason and there is no other way. Now I’m not saying that PGE is not badly run, or that their P&L statements make any sense at all, but making a profit is what business has to do to stay in business. And you want someone at least as qualified as PGE. Better than them would be great, but at least as good is not as bad as it seems, the Paradise Fire not withstanding. BTW I have been a customer of theirs so it’s not as if I’m lobbing grenades from long distance. They aren’t the best in that business, not by a long shot.

  207. 207
    J R in WV says:


    As usual, loved your comment about preparing for Impeachment, building the case to be ironclad, etc.

    But when you say ” If the senate doesn’t convict you want it to be ironclad that they fucked the dog on this.” don’t you mean “fucked the pig”? Or even “fucked the goat?”

    I just hate to see dogs mentioned in the same sentence as the Republicans in the Senate!!! It puts dogs down to compare McConnell to fucking a dog…. just sayin’!

  208. 208
    Bill Arnold says:

    Context (a transcript from a few days later, March 14), bold mine:
    Transcript of Pelosi Weekly Press Conference Today (March 14, 2019)

    Speaker Pelosi. No, I didn’t. I made the comment that I made because I make it every week. I’ve made it July, August, September, October. I’ve made it all through the campaign. I made it in our transition. And I’ve made it every week. It didn’t seem to catch on until I had a gimmick: ‘He’s not worth it.’ Boom, it explodes.
    So, so many of you have said to me: ‘Why are you saying this now?’ Because I have said it almost every day. But if I frame it that way, it gets more attention. So, I wasn’t getting worried about anything.
    As I said, I am a longtime Member of the Ethics Committee, and, there, we just followed the facts, the Rules of the House and the law. No hearsay, no public, no subjective attitudes. All objective. The Rules of the House, the law of the land, the facts of the case. And the facts of case will argue – will present a different challenge when we see what that is.

    That was 10 days before the Barr dishonest 4 page spin-summary. Seems like plenty of political wriggle room to me, and more of a political statement than an absolute, and she’s still working out how to deal with McConnell and the tactics being thrown at her by the Republicans. As far as soundbites go, well it sounds intentional.
    (Am I a fan? Sure. She’s a competent House Speaker. She has several more years of quality brain, from what I can see; I would prefer that she had a younger brain, and so would she I’m certain (I suspect she monitors herself with concern), but who exactly would you replace her with?)

  209. 209
    Ruckus says:

    Changing minds takes time. There are people on both sides who have already made up their minds that DT is either more guilty than Hitler or has never done anything wrong in his life. We will never convince the vast majority of them different. The rest of the public need to see and digest this. That can not happen without hearings and a media who can read the writing on the walls, which most of them seem to be able to do only after those walls have fallen on them.

  210. 210
    Kathleen says:

    OT Sorta plus Dead Thread but I had to post this tweet here:

    “I believe the in Bern in Bernie Sanders is derived from the most powerful Light of Mashiach that Bernie channels through his soul to repair the world. It illuminates the wicked for what they are, while enlightening the righteous.”

  211. 211
    Ruckus says:

    @West of the Rockies:
    I have a difficult time believing that Ally was really a lawyer show and was really more about just her and not being a housewife. It is possible that I’m not remembering it well. It has been more than a week since I’ve seen it.

  212. 212
    NotMax says:

    @West of the Rockies

    Hm. Never saw A McB, so no opinion there. Putting aside TV lawyers played for strictly comic effect (for example, Gomez Addams or the lawyers in Arrested Development or Night Court), maybe Tony ‘Just wait, evidence on a silver platter will show up, it always does’ Petrocelli? Or The Tony Randall Show?

  213. 213
    J R in WV says:


    Trump could be a greeter at WalMart.

    I can’t decide if that would drive number of customers down dramatically, or if people coming in to spit towards Trump would drive traffic up. But he couldn’t do it 40 hours a week, no way!

    Plus he would give everyone who wasn’t obviously white a hard time, as opposed to saying “Welcome to Walmart” to everyone with a smile. He can’t really smile at all.

  214. 214
    Ruckus says:

    If impeachment was not voted on before the senate adjourned at the end of 2021 it might be that a vote would never be taken, as it would be a new senate and that would be old senate business. Not sure new impeachment proceedings would have to start all over and if DT was voted out that would never happen. IOW not sure that it would carry over to the new senate.

  215. 215
    J R in WV says:

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    “Their rich friends support them.”

    You think? They have friends who would give them money? After their wealth was taken in a RICO court case?


  216. 216
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    Good point.
    But then I’ll ask, what do you have against pigs and goats?
    Shouldn’t it be something like a sea slug or one of those slime thingies?

  217. 217

    @tobie: Agreed.
    @zhena gogolia: Some of his supporters have told me in the comments that
    1. I am misunderstanding him because I have only read the tweets and don’t see the whole context
    2. People criticizing him have been influenced by BS and his supporters and/or by the Russians

    In short he can do no wrong only be wronged. Any objection to PB means that you have been lead. That is annoying.

  218. 218
    cynthia ackerman says:

    @Gin & Tonic:

    He’s already in tomorrow.

    Two days at a time?

    One day at two times?

    So perplexing …

    I reflect on how the world reacted on the return of Magellan’s remaining crew, having circumnavigated the planet east to west, and discovering their log book was a day behind. It took a surprisingly long time to figure out why that was.

  219. 219
    Ruckus says:

    @J R in WV:
    They would only as long as they didn’t make the other rich look bad for doing so. And giving them money if there’s nothing in it for them? Yeah I don’t think so.

  220. 220
    trnc says:


    Senators are elected by the state they represent. Deep Red states will back Trump to the death.

    Sure, but purple states won’t. We don’t need 100 democratic senators, we need 51.

  221. 221
    J R in WV says:


    from wally worlds position, if you walked up to one and DT greeted you, would you walk in if you had any other choice whatsoever?

    I would go on in, select a ton of the most expensive frozen and fresh foods, then leave that buggy full of perhaps a thousand dollars worth of stuff, covered by a couple of cheap tee shirts, in an aisle in the back dimly lit part of the store, and go on home.

    But I never, ever shop at Wally’s world. Never.

  222. 222

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: @J R in WV: I think the actual mistaken assumption here is that people like Dump have friends.

  223. 223
    trnc says:


    It’s most likely that the Impeachment Vote in the Senate would be taken by the Seated 2020 Senate, which might not be a ReThug Senate.

    Yes, but it would probably be a moot point, right? If we flip the senate, we’ll probably have taken the White House, too.

  224. 224
    NotMax says:

    @J R in WV

    Don’t shop there but have been inside the one here and have never seen a greeter. Maybe that’s a mainland thing? Home Depot here does have a greeter inside one of the doors however they remain silent, just offer the latest flyer..

  225. 225
    J R in WV says:


    Say WHAT:

    the most powerful Light of Mashiach that Bernie channels through his soul

    Who said that? What Twit link? Are you crazy? Jewish Messiah…?

    They’re crazy for sure!!!!

  226. 226
    NotMax says:


    Will add that on the day it opened here, the Walmart had a shabby, run down look. And was filthy.

    Hasn’t improved any since.

  227. 227
    J R in WV says:


    I think the actual mistaken assumption here is that people like Dump have friends.

    NO, I understand that Dump has no friends, has never had friends. His wife is perhaps barely a friend, or not. If he did have friends, they wouldn’t be willing to contribute a shekel to his benefit!!

  228. 228
    trnc says:


    Hmmmm… I don’t know if its a good tactic to explicitly reach out to Trump voters,

    It isn’t. I said they should NOT explicitly reach out to his voters, but don’t directly insult them, either. If I wasn’t clear, by “his voters”, I mean his diehard crowd. The reasoning behind my suggestion is that some of the conversation would inherently need to focus on policy, and any dem candidate can point to policies by past presidents that helped everyone, no matter what party they belonged to. It’s about getting independents and people on the fence to see again and again how DT made useless policy only to hurt some people. We may also get them to think about the benefit of taxes being used for infrastructure, etc rather than lining bilionaires’ pockets and leaving everyone else with the debt.

  229. 229
    West of the Rockies says:


    Wait… Gomez Addams was a lawyer? I never really thought of him as even having a job!

  230. 230
    mrmoshpotato says:

    @J R in WV: @(((CassandraLeo))): PSA: Melania is a gold-digging, birther bitch.

    Thank you for your time and attentiveness.

  231. 231
    NotMax says:

    @West of the Rockies

    Trivia 8-ball sez: Absitively.

  232. 232
    Bill Arnold says:

    @J R in WV:

    I believe the "Bern" in Bernie Sanders is derived from the most powerful Light of Mashiach that Bernie channels through his soul to repair the world. It illuminates the wicked for what they are, while enlightening the righteous.— JEWS FOR BERNIE 2020 (@eurosensations) April 21, 2019

    I’m also fond of this one:

    Bernie is uniquely qualified to BERN OUT THE TRUMP— JEWS FOR BERNIE 2020 (@eurosensations) April 17, 2019

    (Pic is hand of flame pulling out a weed.)

  233. 233
    trnc says:

    @Bill Arnold: Also relevant from that press conference:

    If the Mueller report comes back with information, I don’t think we should impeach a president for political reasons, and I don’t think we should not impeach a president for political reasons. But you have to be ironclad in terms of your facts, and we will see where that takes us.

  234. 234
    trnc says:

    @J R in WV: Every person who walked through the door would get a 10 minute diatribe from DT about how much of a victim he is.

  235. 235
    jl says:

    That link about Dumb Guys was to a !!%!$##!! story about the !!%!$##!! Las !!%!$##!! Vegas !!%!$##!! Raiders.
    AL pulls a lot of weird stuff on this here blog, but I rarely make a fuss. But this? AL’s gone too damn far and will hear about it.

  236. 236
    Ruckus says:

    No one would stand there and take that shit. Most people might flip him off and keep walking into the store.
    The other thing is that Trump, well first he wouldn’t work but even if he did he wouldn’t work for what he’s worth. No one pays to show up and work. As cheap as that fuck is you know he wouldn’t. Probably because he can’t afford it. And if he did, he wouldn’t last 15 minutes standing up.

  237. 237
    Jay says:

    And, because it’s a day ending in a “y”, Pravada on the Hudson frontpages another known Nazi, to try to normalize the White Supremacy Regime and diss the Redacted Meuller Report,


  238. 238
    James E Powell says:

    @West of the Rockies:

    Ally McBeal wasn’t a show about lawyers. It was a show about lawyer jokes.

  239. 239
    Immanentize says:

    @James E Powell: and toilet jokes

  240. 240
    The Lodger says:

    @Kathleen: I think they misspelled Meshuggah.

  241. 241
    opiejeanne says:

    @joel hanes: When I wrote that the two idiot sons should be forced to shovel pig shit the rest of their lives, Eric was included because of the killing of trophy animals with his brother. That ended any sympathy I might have had for him otherwise. I know his charity was started to do the right thing and his father corrupted it; that made me feel bad for him, but the slaughter of various animals in trophy hunts is really disgusting to me, a waste of an animal to feed the ego of a human.

  242. 242
    Kathleen says:

    @J R in WV: Here’s a link to his twitter feed. His handle is @Jews For Bernie 2020.

    The tweet I posted is from a David Sirota thread.

    ETA BIll Arnold beat me to it!

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